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{\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 416.069, \"end\": 416.289, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"聞\"}, {\"word\": \"稿\", \"start\": 416.289, \"end\": 416.43, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 416.43, \"end\": 416.53, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 416.53, \"end\": 416.67, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 416.67, \"end\": 416.93, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 416.93, \"end\": 417.11, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 417.11, \"end\": 417.31, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 417.31, \"end\": 417.45, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 417.45, \"end\": 417.651, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"四\", \"start\": 417.651, \"end\": 417.791, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 417.791, \"end\": 417.951, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 417.951, \"end\": 418.371, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"無\", \"start\": 418.371, \"end\": 418.511, 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\"務\"}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 447.74, \"end\": 447.86, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 447.86, \"end\": 448.16, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 448.16, \"end\": 448.38, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"另\", \"start\": 448.38, \"end\": 448.52, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 448.52, \"end\": 448.68, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 448.68, \"end\": 448.8, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 448.8, \"end\": 449.101, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"傳\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 449.101, \"end\": 449.241, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 449.241, \"end\": 449.261, \"score\": 0.856}]}, {\"start\": 450.602, \"end\": 468.425, \"text\": \"講到重點嘛 就基金嘛 今年基金啦通訊傳播監督管理基金的今年預算編的是5億那這個有線廣播電視事業發展基金編的預算是2.7億這5億跟7億 2.7億合起來大概7點7.7億快8億左右的這個經費我想問一下主委這幾億 這8億 這7點多 7.7億的經費到目前為止運作有沒有問題\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 450.602, \"end\": 450.822, 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\"些\", \"start\": 530.334, \"end\": 530.474, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 530.474, \"end\": 530.735, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 530.735, \"end\": 530.835, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 530.835, \"end\": 530.975, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"N\", \"start\": 530.975, \"end\": 531.415, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"C\", \"start\": 531.415, \"end\": 531.635, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"C\", \"start\": 531.635, \"end\": 532.516, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 532.516, \"end\": 532.656, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 532.656, \"end\": 532.776, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 532.776, \"end\": 533.016, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 533.016, \"end\": 533.136, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 533.136, \"end\": 533.696, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 533.696, \"end\": 534.237, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"帶\"}, {\"word\": \"頭\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 534.237, \"end\": 534.377, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 534.377, \"end\": 534.677, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 534.677, \"end\": 535.017, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 535.017, \"end\": 535.117, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 535.117, \"end\": 535.297, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"宣\", \"start\": 535.297, \"end\": 535.317, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"傳\"}]}, {\"start\": 536.511, \"end\": 558.899, \"text\": \"因為你說四月斷稅 但問題是沒有 因為基金很多錢在裡面跟委員報告 都是剛才跟委員報告因為我們都資訊化 很多的系統他是吃單位預算裡頭的通訊費跟水電費而且我這邊沒有辦法 沒有預算來支援的話那個通常系統都會停止運作 停止運作的話其實不管基金那邊多少錢 這邊還是幾乎都停擺\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 536.511, \"end\": 536.611, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 536.611, \"end\": 537.231, \"score\": 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\"end\": 539.692, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 539.692, \"end\": 540.252, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 540.252, \"end\": 540.392, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 540.392, \"end\": 540.693, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 540.693, \"end\": 540.873, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 540.873, \"end\": 540.993, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 540.993, \"end\": 541.073, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 541.073, \"end\": 541.333, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 541.333, \"end\": 541.453, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 541.453, \"end\": 541.773, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 541.773, \"end\": 542.153, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 542.153, \"end\": 542.273, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 542.273, \"end\": 542.453, \"score\": 0.779}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 542.453, \"end\": 542.973, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 542.973, \"end\": 543.173, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 543.173, \"end\": 543.353, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 543.353, \"end\": 543.493, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 543.493, \"end\": 543.674, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"系\", \"start\": 543.674, \"end\": 543.974, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 543.974, \"end\": 544.154, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 544.154, \"end\": 544.414, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"吃\", \"start\": 544.414, \"end\": 544.914, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 544.914, \"end\": 545.154, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 545.154, \"end\": 545.594, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"頭\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 545.594, \"end\": 545.774, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 545.774, \"end\": 546.274, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 546.274, \"end\": 546.414, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"水\", \"start\": 546.414, \"end\": 547.315, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 547.315, \"end\": 547.415, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"且\", \"start\": 547.415, \"end\": 547.575, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 547.575, \"end\": 547.835, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 547.835, \"end\": 547.975, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 547.975, \"end\": 548.255, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 548.255, \"end\": 549.816, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 549.816, \"end\": 549.916, 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\"end\": 554.337, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"運\"}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 554.337, \"end\": 554.497, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"停\", \"start\": 554.497, \"end\": 554.617, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"止\", \"start\": 554.617, \"end\": 554.797, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"運\"}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 554.797, \"end\": 554.917, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 554.917, \"end\": 555.398, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 555.398, \"end\": 555.678, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 555.678, \"end\": 555.778, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 555.778, \"end\": 555.958, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 555.958, \"end\": 556.098, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 556.098, \"end\": 556.198, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 556.198, \"end\": 556.518, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 556.518, \"end\": 556.638, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 556.638, \"end\": 557.538, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"錢\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 557.538, \"end\": 558.619, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"乎\", \"start\": 558.619, \"end\": 558.739, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 558.739, \"end\": 558.879, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"停\", \"start\": 558.879, \"end\": 558.899, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"擺\"}]}, {\"start\": 560.632, \"end\": 587.158, \"text\": \"所以你基金裡面還是有很多這個支出項目是例行性的會支出啦這個在過去的決算在過去的支用裡面都有放在裡面來支出所以我想沒有你講的這麼嚴重我們希望我們就事論事我是覺得大家就事論事跟過去的經驗來看其實基金你們的運用是非常的彈性的我們這樣講就好了我們沒有說我也不特別去點出來你花什麼錢但是基金的運用是非常非常彈性的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 560.632, \"end\": 560.712, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 560.712, \"end\": 560.812, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 560.812, \"end\": 560.952, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 560.952, 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0.667}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 628.197, \"end\": 628.217, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 628.217, \"end\": 628.277, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 628.277, \"end\": 628.297, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,369 --> 00:00:06,697\n好謝謝主席我們請代主委陳重樹代理主委謝謝好那陳代主委\n\n2\n00:00:13,121 --> 00:00:36,253\n主委好我想主委這個任何一個政府機關最重要兩件事情一個是人事一個是經費那我們今天先來討論人事的部分我想大家都關注到說這個換照的部分可能這個會因為委會人事不足沒辦法開會我想確認一下所謂的這個換照是不是屬於這個通訊傳播事業的經營權的取得變更或消滅\n\n3\n00:00:37,602 --> 00:01:05,474\n是嗎是沒錯那我剛剛所述的這個文字是放在國家通訊傳播委員會委員會委員的這個會議議事要點我想這應該不是詐騙網站這個是網址是ncclaw.ncc.gov.tw在你們NCC網站上面有一個國家通訊傳播委員會委員會會議議事要點的一個要點這是你們開會的一個基本的一個要點\n\n4\n00:01:06,474 --> 00:01:17,635\n那我剛剛所述的這個放在第五條這個第六項裡面這個有關於通訊傳播事業經濟權取得電源或消費者處分之審議是透過這要點來處理的是吧是不是這樣子\n\n5\n00:01:18,317 --> 00:01:45,065\n各位報告他是屬於一個行政就是一般行政規則他的位階比組織法還要低那組織法的從94年制定的當時他是以法定總額來認定的這個在立法院的公報裡頭都可及主委我們可以當然來討論一下啦這個部分因為畢竟你們的意思要點的第二條就寫了嘛這是你們意思要點自己寫的\n\n6\n00:01:46,260 --> 00:02:14,588\n那你自己是說你們意思要點從民國94年到最後的修正是113年8月2號第二條本委本會委員會會議由權力委員組成之未依法就任委員或就任後出缺者不記錄委員總額這件事情是你們明文寫在你們的網站上面的意思要點如果這一條照主委的意思你是不是說你覺得這一條跟你們的立法意旨是抵觸的那所以這一條是無效的你是這個意思嗎\n\n7\n00:02:16,247 --> 00:02:32,630\n這邊的試用上會要以母法組織法來優先試用那如果這樣的話你這個國家通訊傳播委員會的第1條一開始就是錯誤的啦如果照你這個說法的話你後面的你如果開會意思要點是錯誤的話那我想請問一下你們委員會怎麼召開的\n\n8\n00:02:34,085 --> 00:02:51,815\n我們現在無法組成委員會現在委員會並沒有召開我的意思是說如果今天連議事要點你不認因為這個是我想最後這修法是去年8月2號去年8月2號也沒有提到這個修法就修別的東西那結果最後這修法了這麼多年下來這條一直擺在這邊那你現在跟我說這條不適用\n\n9\n00:02:53,416 --> 00:03:08,012\n那什麼時候才施用那這條牌要做什麼這條在過往百分之九十以上的時間都不會掉到這個情境因為當時的剩下的猿兒都超過四個那你那個母法的這個依據在哪裡\n\n10\n00:03:08,820 --> 00:03:37,225\n在94年的那個院會的立法公報大院的相關的公報裡頭在94年的我們有發布新聞稿大意就是說行政院在他的立法說明裡頭有講到說是以全體總額掛戶7人當時的草案都是全體法定總額是7人來說明的那後續通過版本雖然人數有採其他政黨的提案但是這個\n\n11\n00:03:38,866 --> 00:03:56,301\n這個這方面的一些共識認知都是在一貫來通過來處理的所以都是認定為法定總額所以當然你說你這是共識啦但本席覺得這不是共識啦因為就是我們提到的嘛如果你意思要你這樣寫他已經幫你排除了他說未依法就任的委員\n\n12\n00:03:57,549 --> 00:04:13,844\n現在就是很多委員沒有依法就任啦現在現行的狀況就是這樣他不就幫你解決這件事情了嗎但是他的位階是行政規則他一般跟無法跟法律抵觸的話這邊是就條文本身我們有看到抵觸的可能性啦\n\n13\n00:04:14,685 --> 00:04:29,394\n因為你條文沒有寫這個而且當初的立法意旨你說民國94年那個立法意旨寫的時候是七個人那你照這樣講你現在超過七個人不就又違反了這個立法意旨嗎所以我覺得在這邊爭論這個立法意旨因為這立法意旨跟當初已經不太一樣了那你們既然也依據這個\n\n14\n00:04:32,090 --> 00:04:57,421\n這個國調宣傳媒委員會訂定本要點已經訂了這個東西依照你們法定職權訂的這些這是你們第一條寫的你們這個要點是依據這個通傳會委員會會行使法定職權所以特地訂定了這個要點所以訂定這個要點的第二條是直接講明了說如果有委員未依法就任或就任或出缺所以不羈辱委員總和不羈辱委員總和是你們寫的又不是我寫的這是好幾年前好久以前就寫的啊那所以我想今天要講這樣子第一個\n\n15\n00:04:59,133 --> 00:05:23,640\n前面很多委員提到了今天NCC委員出缺是因為行政院沒有提委員進來我沒得審這第一個部分這我也沒辦法但我今天想幫你解決的是問題解決問題的時候有找到這一條那基本上這一條就是讓你們有一個理由或是有一個說法至少是你們定的啊衛醫法而且這些年下來立法院也沒有修正最後是修正我剛剛講最後是修正去年的8月2號了\n\n16\n00:05:24,949 --> 00:05:46,923\n已經很近代了那時候已經經歷過這個那時候去年陳耀祥是7月31去職的嘛那這個8月2號修正已經是新的結果出來那這樣子的東西我認為主委你應該去試用去思考能不能試用這條讓ANCC趕快回復運作不然你看我們的主委院長去年的11月28號說要提建經過四個月到目前還是沒有提\n\n17\n00:05:47,463 --> 00:06:02,991\n那NC就是停擺嘛我現在也不是辦法啦好看完報告如果說適用這東西也會違法因為中央法規標準法大概大概一規定是說位階比較低的行政規則如果以母法抵觸它是無效的我們必須要施那當然前提是要以母法抵觸啊那誰會誰來認定這件事情\n\n18\n00:06:05,612 --> 00:06:30,370\n因為當初的立法說明他都是法律的文件之一一般法律的一些運作實踐的操作都是他為沒有寫的都看立法說明當時的情境是這樣如果是這樣的話那我是想問你們這一條是不是要把它修掉那把它提進來啊大家公開的來辯論一下這件事情到底不能說我說了算你說了算嘛因為今天擺明就是有這個法律要點還在這邊是你們會議召開的這個要點還擺在這邊說\n\n19\n00:06:35,454 --> 00:06:59,292\n為依法就任的不算在總額裡面幫你們找到的法律法源依據了嘛對委員說的沒錯我們這個該檢討的行政規則我們會要來檢討好主委那人事談完談錢的問題剛剛其他委員提到說這個NCC是預算被刪除的重災區但是你剛剛提到這個包括你們新聞稿提到你們今年可能四月就會無法執行相關業務是嗎\n\n20\n00:07:01,380 --> 00:07:29,261\n如果我們把土地租金的扣留下來如期支付的話確實是上半年度就會我想請問一下主委抱歉請問代理主委但是這個NCC到底執行業務的時候都是用哪裡的錢在執行業務我們現在單位預算是維持機關基本運作所需比方說水電費水電費一般事務費業務費等等那至於說業務費是在我們另外的通傳基金\n\n21\n00:07:30,602 --> 00:07:48,425\n講到重點嘛就基金嘛今年基金啦通訊傳播監督管理基金的今年預算編的是5億那這個有線廣播電視事業發展基金編的預算是2.7億這5億跟7億2.7億合起來大概7點7.7億快8億左右的這個經費我想問一下主委這幾億這8億這7點多7.7億的經費到目前為止運作有沒有問題\n\n22\n00:07:59,315 --> 00:08:19,960\n目前沒有但是跟委員報告因為那些不管是有線還是通訊傳播很多是資訊化的像數位化時代很多是電腦化的會有一些資訊系統資訊系統他吃的水電費跟那個通訊費是用在單位基金裡頭的是在單位預算裡頭的對這個齁這個當初我們在委員會審查預算的時候我們都很清楚基本上\n\n23\n00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:42,110\nNCC本部的預算其實在委會的時候是很順利的因為沒什麼錢坦白說是這樣子沒有什麼重點大家是把重點放在所謂的基金的審查因為其實NCC在執行業務的時候主要應該是在這個基金裡面你們的錢都放在基金裡面那基金到目前為止其實也沒有刪應該說也還沒開始審所以沒有實質上對你們業務認為沒有什麼具體的實質業務的影響\n\n24\n00:08:48,493 --> 00:08:55,317\n所以我覺得主委剛剛有一些委員提到說NCC這個希望你們不要這樣子帶頭的去做這樣子的宣傳\n\n25\n00:08:56,511 --> 00:09:18,899\n因為你說四月斷稅但問題是沒有因為基金很多錢在裡面跟委員報告都是剛才跟委員報告因為我們都資訊化很多的系統他是吃單位預算裡頭的通訊費跟水電費而且我這邊沒有辦法沒有預算來支援的話那個通常系統都會停止運作停止運作的話其實不管基金那邊多少錢這邊還是幾乎都停擺\n\n26\n00:09:20,632 --> 00:09:47,158\n所以你基金裡面還是有很多這個支出項目是例行性的會支出啦這個在過去的決算在過去的支用裡面都有放在裡面來支出所以我想沒有你講的這麼嚴重我們希望我們就事論事我是覺得大家就事論事跟過去的經驗來看其實基金你們的運用是非常的彈性的我們這樣講就好了我們沒有說我也不特別去點出來你花什麼錢但是基金的運用是非常非常彈性的\n\n27\n00:09:47,298 --> 00:10:15,048\n沒有像主委講的這麼嚴重我希望當然現在就這樣子了當然不管預算的這個狀況已經是現行你的本預算狀況就是這樣子那既然基金有給你這麼多錢讓你執行這些業務我希望這主委想辦法應該是能夠去比照廣利能夠來執行相關業務的好不好主委謝謝委員但是單位預算跟基金的流用沒關係我剛剛提了其實基金裡面運用非常彈性我是說真的這個\n\n28\n00:10:17,711 --> 00:10:28,297\n今年就知道了今年這個預算決算的時候你就會看到我們把預算決算拿出來看去基金預算是非常非常彈性不一定你如你所說的這樣這麼的一次性好不好主委我們就請到這邊啦好謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2369\t6697\t好謝謝主席我們請代主委陳重樹代理主委謝謝好那陳代主委\n13121\t36253\t主委好我想主委這個任何一個政府機關最重要兩件事情一個是人事一個是經費那我們今天先來討論人事的部分我想大家都關注到說這個換照的部分可能這個會因為委會人事不足沒辦法開會我想確認一下所謂的這個換照是不是屬於這個通訊傳播事業的經營權的取得變更或消滅\n37602\t65474\t是嗎是沒錯那我剛剛所述的這個文字是放在國家通訊傳播委員會委員會委員的這個會議議事要點我想這應該不是詐騙網站這個是網址是ncclaw.ncc.gov.tw在你們NCC網站上面有一個國家通訊傳播委員會委員會會議議事要點的一個要點這是你們開會的一個基本的一個要點\n66474\t77635\t那我剛剛所述的這個放在第五條這個第六項裡面這個有關於通訊傳播事業經濟權取得電源或消費者處分之審議是透過這要點來處理的是吧 是不是這樣子\n78317\t105065\t各位報告他是屬於一個行政就是一般行政規則他的位階比組織法還要低那組織法的從94年制定的當時他是以法定總額來認定的這個在立法院的公報裡頭都可及主委我們可以當然來討論一下啦這個部分因為畢竟你們的意思要點的第二條就寫了嘛這是你們意思要點自己寫的\n106260\t134588\t那你自己是說你們意思要點從民國94年到最後的修正是113年8月2號第二條本委本會委員會會議由權力委員組成之未依法就任委員或就任後出缺者不記錄委員總額這件事情是你們明文寫在你們的網站上面的意思要點如果這一條照主委的意思你是不是說你覺得這一條跟你們的立法意旨是抵觸的那所以這一條是無效的你是這個意思嗎\n136247\t152630\t這邊的試用上會要以母法組織法來優先試用那如果這樣的話你這個國家通訊傳播委員會的第1條一開始就是錯誤的啦如果照你這個說法的話你後面的你如果開會意思要點是錯誤的話那我想請問一下你們委員會怎麼召開的\n154085\t171815\t我們現在無法組成委員會 現在委員會並沒有召開我的意思是說如果今天連議事要點你不認因為這個是 我想最後這修法是去年8月2號去年8月2號也沒有提到這個修法就修別的東西那結果最後這修法了這麼多年下來這條一直擺在這邊那你現在跟我說這條不適用\n173416\t188012\t那什麼時候才施用那這條牌要做什麼這條在過往百分之九十以上的時間都不會掉到這個情境因為當時的剩下的猿兒都超過四個那你那個母法的這個依據在哪裡\n188820\t217225\t在94年的那個院會的立法公報大院的相關的公報裡頭在94年的我們有發布新聞稿大意就是說行政院在他的立法說明裡頭有講到說是以全體總額掛戶7人當時的草案都是全體法定總額是7人來說明的那後續通過版本雖然人數有採其他政黨的提案但是這個\n218866\t236301\t這個這方面的一些共識認知都是在一貫來通過來處理的所以都是認定為法定總額所以當然你說你這是共識啦但本席覺得這不是共識啦因為就是我們提到的嘛如果你意思要你這樣寫他已經幫你排除了他說未依法就任的委員\n237549\t253844\t現在就是很多委員沒有依法就任啦現在現行的狀況就是這樣他不就幫你解決這件事情了嗎但是他的位階是行政規則他一般跟無法跟法律抵觸的話這邊是就條文本身我們有看到抵觸的可能性啦\n254685\t269394\t因為你條文沒有寫這個而且當初的立法意旨你說民國94年那個立法意旨寫的時候是七個人那你照這樣講你現在超過七個人不就又違反了這個立法意旨嗎所以我覺得在這邊爭論這個立法意旨因為這立法意旨跟當初已經不太一樣了那你們既然也依據這個\n272090\t297421\t這個國調宣傳媒委員會訂定本要點已經訂了這個東西依照你們法定職權訂的這些這是你們第一條寫的你們這個要點是依據這個通傳會委員會會行使法定職權所以特地訂定了這個要點所以訂定這個要點的第二條是直接講明了說如果有委員未依法就任或就任或出缺所以不羈辱委員總和不羈辱委員總和是你們寫的又不是我寫的這是好幾年前好久以前就寫的啊那所以我想今天要講這樣子第一個\n299133\t323640\t前面很多委員提到了 今天NCC委員出缺是因為行政院沒有提委員進來 我沒得審這第一個部分 這我也沒辦法但我今天想幫你解決的是問題解決問題的時候有找到這一條那基本上這一條就是讓你們有一個理由或是有一個說法至少是你們定的啊 衛醫法 而且這些年下來立法院也沒有修正最後是修正 我剛剛講 最後是修正去年的8月2號了\n324949\t346923\t已經很近代了那時候已經經歷過這個那時候去年陳耀祥是7月31去職的嘛那這個8月2號修正已經是新的結果出來那這樣子的東西我認為主委你應該去試用去思考能不能試用這條讓ANCC趕快回復運作不然你看我們的主委院長去年的11月28號說要提建經過四個月到目前還是沒有提\n347463\t362991\t那NC就是停擺嘛我現在也不是辦法啦好 看完報告如果說適用這東西也會違法因為中央法規標準法大概大概一規定是說位階比較低的行政規則如果以母法抵觸它是無效的我們必須要施那當然前提是要以母法抵觸啊那誰會誰來認定這件事情\n365612\t390370\t因為當初的立法說明他都是法律的文件之一一般法律的一些運作實踐的操作都是他為沒有寫的都看立法說明當時的情境是這樣如果是這樣的話那我是想問你們這一條是不是要把它修掉那把它提進來啊大家公開的來辯論一下這件事情到底不能說我說了算你說了算嘛因為今天擺明就是有這個法律要點還在這邊是你們會議召開的這個要點還擺在這邊說\n395454\t419292\t為依法就任的不算在總額裡面幫你們找到的法律法源依據了嘛對委員說的沒錯我們這個該檢討的行政規則我們會要來檢討好主委那人事談完談錢的問題剛剛其他委員提到說這個NCC是預算被刪除的重災區但是你剛剛提到這個包括你們新聞稿提到你們今年可能四月就會無法執行相關業務是嗎\n421380\t449261\t如果我們把土地租金的扣留下來如期支付的話確實是上半年度就會我想請問一下主委抱歉請問代理主委但是這個NCC到底執行業務的時候都是用哪裡的錢在執行業務我們現在單位預算是維持機關基本運作所需比方說水電費水電費 一般事務費 業務費等等那至於說業務費是在我們另外的通傳基金\n450602\t468425\t講到重點嘛 就基金嘛 今年基金啦通訊傳播監督管理基金的今年預算編的是5億那這個有線廣播電視事業發展基金編的預算是2.7億這5億跟7億 2.7億合起來大概7點7.7億快8億左右的這個經費我想問一下主委這幾億 這8億 這7點多 7.7億的經費到目前為止運作有沒有問題\n479315\t499960\t目前沒有但是跟委員報告因為那些不管是有線還是通訊傳播很多是資訊化的像數位化時代很多是電腦化的會有一些資訊系統資訊系統他吃的水電費跟那個通訊費是用在單位基金裡頭的是在單位預算裡頭的對這個齁這個當初我們在委員會審查預算的時候我們都很清楚基本上\n501360\t522110\tNCC本部的預算其實在委會的時候是很順利的因為沒什麼錢坦白說是這樣子沒有什麼重點大家是把重點放在所謂的基金的審查因為其實NCC在執行業務的時候主要應該是在這個基金裡面你們的錢都放在基金裡面那基金到目前為止其實也沒有刪應該說也還沒開始審所以沒有實質上對你們業務認為沒有什麼具體的實質業務的影響\n528493\t535317\t所以我覺得主委剛剛有一些委員提到說NCC這個希望你們不要這樣子帶頭的去做這樣子的宣傳\n536511\t558899\t因為你說四月斷稅 但問題是沒有 因為基金很多錢在裡面跟委員報告 都是剛才跟委員報告因為我們都資訊化 很多的系統他是吃單位預算裡頭的通訊費跟水電費而且我這邊沒有辦法 沒有預算來支援的話那個通常系統都會停止運作 停止運作的話其實不管基金那邊多少錢 這邊還是幾乎都停擺\n560632\t587158\t所以你基金裡面還是有很多這個支出項目是例行性的會支出啦這個在過去的決算在過去的支用裡面都有放在裡面來支出所以我想沒有你講的這麼嚴重我們希望我們就事論事我是覺得大家就事論事跟過去的經驗來看其實基金你們的運用是非常的彈性的我們這樣講就好了我們沒有說我也不特別去點出來你花什麼錢但是基金的運用是非常非常彈性的\n587298\t615048\t沒有像主委講的這麼嚴重我希望當然現在就這樣子了當然不管預算的這個狀況已經是現行你的本預算狀況就是這樣子那既然基金有給你這麼多錢讓你執行這些業務我希望這主委想辦法應該是能夠去比照廣利能夠來執行相關業務的好不好主委謝謝委員但是單位預算跟基金的流用沒關係我剛剛提了其實基金裡面運用非常彈性我是說真的這個\n617711\t628297\t今年就知道了今年這個預算決算的時候你就會看到我們把預算決算拿出來看去基金預算是非常非常彈性不一定你如你所說的這樣這麼的一次性好不好主委我們就請到這邊啦好謝謝委員\n","txt":"好謝謝主席我們請代主委陳重樹代理主委謝謝好那陳代主委\n主委好我想主委這個任何一個政府機關最重要兩件事情一個是人事一個是經費那我們今天先來討論人事的部分我想大家都關注到說這個換照的部分可能這個會因為委會人事不足沒辦法開會我想確認一下所謂的這個換照是不是屬於這個通訊傳播事業的經營權的取得變更或消滅\n是嗎是沒錯那我剛剛所述的這個文字是放在國家通訊傳播委員會委員會委員的這個會議議事要點我想這應該不是詐騙網站這個是網址是ncclaw.ncc.gov.tw在你們NCC網站上面有一個國家通訊傳播委員會委員會會議議事要點的一個要點這是你們開會的一個基本的一個要點\n那我剛剛所述的這個放在第五條這個第六項裡面這個有關於通訊傳播事業經濟權取得電源或消費者處分之審議是透過這要點來處理的是吧 是不是這樣子\n各位報告他是屬於一個行政就是一般行政規則他的位階比組織法還要低那組織法的從94年制定的當時他是以法定總額來認定的這個在立法院的公報裡頭都可及主委我們可以當然來討論一下啦這個部分因為畢竟你們的意思要點的第二條就寫了嘛這是你們意思要點自己寫的\n那你自己是說你們意思要點從民國94年到最後的修正是113年8月2號第二條本委本會委員會會議由權力委員組成之未依法就任委員或就任後出缺者不記錄委員總額這件事情是你們明文寫在你們的網站上面的意思要點如果這一條照主委的意思你是不是說你覺得這一條跟你們的立法意旨是抵觸的那所以這一條是無效的你是這個意思嗎\n這邊的試用上會要以母法組織法來優先試用那如果這樣的話你這個國家通訊傳播委員會的第1條一開始就是錯誤的啦如果照你這個說法的話你後面的你如果開會意思要點是錯誤的話那我想請問一下你們委員會怎麼召開的\n我們現在無法組成委員會 現在委員會並沒有召開我的意思是說如果今天連議事要點你不認因為這個是 我想最後這修法是去年8月2號去年8月2號也沒有提到這個修法就修別的東西那結果最後這修法了這麼多年下來這條一直擺在這邊那你現在跟我說這條不適用\n那什麼時候才施用那這條牌要做什麼這條在過往百分之九十以上的時間都不會掉到這個情境因為當時的剩下的猿兒都超過四個那你那個母法的這個依據在哪裡\n在94年的那個院會的立法公報大院的相關的公報裡頭在94年的我們有發布新聞稿大意就是說行政院在他的立法說明裡頭有講到說是以全體總額掛戶7人當時的草案都是全體法定總額是7人來說明的那後續通過版本雖然人數有採其他政黨的提案但是這個\n這個這方面的一些共識認知都是在一貫來通過來處理的所以都是認定為法定總額所以當然你說你這是共識啦但本席覺得這不是共識啦因為就是我們提到的嘛如果你意思要你這樣寫他已經幫你排除了他說未依法就任的委員\n現在就是很多委員沒有依法就任啦現在現行的狀況就是這樣他不就幫你解決這件事情了嗎但是他的位階是行政規則他一般跟無法跟法律抵觸的話這邊是就條文本身我們有看到抵觸的可能性啦\n因為你條文沒有寫這個而且當初的立法意旨你說民國94年那個立法意旨寫的時候是七個人那你照這樣講你現在超過七個人不就又違反了這個立法意旨嗎所以我覺得在這邊爭論這個立法意旨因為這立法意旨跟當初已經不太一樣了那你們既然也依據這個\n這個國調宣傳媒委員會訂定本要點已經訂了這個東西依照你們法定職權訂的這些這是你們第一條寫的你們這個要點是依據這個通傳會委員會會行使法定職權所以特地訂定了這個要點所以訂定這個要點的第二條是直接講明了說如果有委員未依法就任或就任或出缺所以不羈辱委員總和不羈辱委員總和是你們寫的又不是我寫的這是好幾年前好久以前就寫的啊那所以我想今天要講這樣子第一個\n前面很多委員提到了 今天NCC委員出缺是因為行政院沒有提委員進來 我沒得審這第一個部分 這我也沒辦法但我今天想幫你解決的是問題解決問題的時候有找到這一條那基本上這一條就是讓你們有一個理由或是有一個說法至少是你們定的啊 衛醫法 而且這些年下來立法院也沒有修正最後是修正 我剛剛講 最後是修正去年的8月2號了\n已經很近代了那時候已經經歷過這個那時候去年陳耀祥是7月31去職的嘛那這個8月2號修正已經是新的結果出來那這樣子的東西我認為主委你應該去試用去思考能不能試用這條讓ANCC趕快回復運作不然你看我們的主委院長去年的11月28號說要提建經過四個月到目前還是沒有提\n那NC就是停擺嘛我現在也不是辦法啦好 看完報告如果說適用這東西也會違法因為中央法規標準法大概大概一規定是說位階比較低的行政規則如果以母法抵觸它是無效的我們必須要施那當然前提是要以母法抵觸啊那誰會誰來認定這件事情\n因為當初的立法說明他都是法律的文件之一一般法律的一些運作實踐的操作都是他為沒有寫的都看立法說明當時的情境是這樣如果是這樣的話那我是想問你們這一條是不是要把它修掉那把它提進來啊大家公開的來辯論一下這件事情到底不能說我說了算你說了算嘛因為今天擺明就是有這個法律要點還在這邊是你們會議召開的這個要點還擺在這邊說\n為依法就任的不算在總額裡面幫你們找到的法律法源依據了嘛對委員說的沒錯我們這個該檢討的行政規則我們會要來檢討好主委那人事談完談錢的問題剛剛其他委員提到說這個NCC是預算被刪除的重災區但是你剛剛提到這個包括你們新聞稿提到你們今年可能四月就會無法執行相關業務是嗎\n如果我們把土地租金的扣留下來如期支付的話確實是上半年度就會我想請問一下主委抱歉請問代理主委但是這個NCC到底執行業務的時候都是用哪裡的錢在執行業務我們現在單位預算是維持機關基本運作所需比方說水電費水電費 一般事務費 業務費等等那至於說業務費是在我們另外的通傳基金\n講到重點嘛 就基金嘛 今年基金啦通訊傳播監督管理基金的今年預算編的是5億那這個有線廣播電視事業發展基金編的預算是2.7億這5億跟7億 2.7億合起來大概7點7.7億快8億左右的這個經費我想問一下主委這幾億 這8億 這7點多 7.7億的經費到目前為止運作有沒有問題\n目前沒有但是跟委員報告因為那些不管是有線還是通訊傳播很多是資訊化的像數位化時代很多是電腦化的會有一些資訊系統資訊系統他吃的水電費跟那個通訊費是用在單位基金裡頭的是在單位預算裡頭的對這個齁這個當初我們在委員會審查預算的時候我們都很清楚基本上\nNCC本部的預算其實在委會的時候是很順利的因為沒什麼錢坦白說是這樣子沒有什麼重點大家是把重點放在所謂的基金的審查因為其實NCC在執行業務的時候主要應該是在這個基金裡面你們的錢都放在基金裡面那基金到目前為止其實也沒有刪應該說也還沒開始審所以沒有實質上對你們業務認為沒有什麼具體的實質業務的影響\n所以我覺得主委剛剛有一些委員提到說NCC這個希望你們不要這樣子帶頭的去做這樣子的宣傳\n因為你說四月斷稅 但問題是沒有 因為基金很多錢在裡面跟委員報告 都是剛才跟委員報告因為我們都資訊化 很多的系統他是吃單位預算裡頭的通訊費跟水電費而且我這邊沒有辦法 沒有預算來支援的話那個通常系統都會停止運作 停止運作的話其實不管基金那邊多少錢 這邊還是幾乎都停擺\n所以你基金裡面還是有很多這個支出項目是例行性的會支出啦這個在過去的決算在過去的支用裡面都有放在裡面來支出所以我想沒有你講的這麼嚴重我們希望我們就事論事我是覺得大家就事論事跟過去的經驗來看其實基金你們的運用是非常的彈性的我們這樣講就好了我們沒有說我也不特別去點出來你花什麼錢但是基金的運用是非常非常彈性的\n沒有像主委講的這麼嚴重我希望當然現在就這樣子了當然不管預算的這個狀況已經是現行你的本預算狀況就是這樣子那既然基金有給你這麼多錢讓你執行這些業務我希望這主委想辦法應該是能夠去比照廣利能夠來執行相關業務的好不好主委謝謝委員但是單位預算跟基金的流用沒關係我剛剛提了其實基金裡面運用非常彈性我是說真的這個\n今年就知道了今年這個預算決算的時候你就會看到我們把預算決算拿出來看去基金預算是非常非常彈性不一定你如你所說的這樣這麼的一次性好不好主委我們就請到這邊啦好謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.369 --> 00:06.697\n好謝謝主席我們請代主委陳重樹代理主委謝謝好那陳代主委\n\n00:13.121 --> 00:36.253\n主委好我想主委這個任何一個政府機關最重要兩件事情一個是人事一個是經費那我們今天先來討論人事的部分我想大家都關注到說這個換照的部分可能這個會因為委會人事不足沒辦法開會我想確認一下所謂的這個換照是不是屬於這個通訊傳播事業的經營權的取得變更或消滅\n\n00:37.602 --> 01:05.474\n是嗎是沒錯那我剛剛所述的這個文字是放在國家通訊傳播委員會委員會委員的這個會議議事要點我想這應該不是詐騙網站這個是網址是ncclaw.ncc.gov.tw在你們NCC網站上面有一個國家通訊傳播委員會委員會會議議事要點的一個要點這是你們開會的一個基本的一個要點\n\n01:06.474 --> 01:17.635\n那我剛剛所述的這個放在第五條這個第六項裡面這個有關於通訊傳播事業經濟權取得電源或消費者處分之審議是透過這要點來處理的是吧是不是這樣子\n\n01:18.317 --> 01:45.065\n各位報告他是屬於一個行政就是一般行政規則他的位階比組織法還要低那組織法的從94年制定的當時他是以法定總額來認定的這個在立法院的公報裡頭都可及主委我們可以當然來討論一下啦這個部分因為畢竟你們的意思要點的第二條就寫了嘛這是你們意思要點自己寫的\n\n01:46.260 --> 02:14.588\n那你自己是說你們意思要點從民國94年到最後的修正是113年8月2號第二條本委本會委員會會議由權力委員組成之未依法就任委員或就任後出缺者不記錄委員總額這件事情是你們明文寫在你們的網站上面的意思要點如果這一條照主委的意思你是不是說你覺得這一條跟你們的立法意旨是抵觸的那所以這一條是無效的你是這個意思嗎\n\n02:16.247 --> 02:32.630\n這邊的試用上會要以母法組織法來優先試用那如果這樣的話你這個國家通訊傳播委員會的第1條一開始就是錯誤的啦如果照你這個說法的話你後面的你如果開會意思要點是錯誤的話那我想請問一下你們委員會怎麼召開的\n\n02:34.085 --> 02:51.815\n我們現在無法組成委員會現在委員會並沒有召開我的意思是說如果今天連議事要點你不認因為這個是我想最後這修法是去年8月2號去年8月2號也沒有提到這個修法就修別的東西那結果最後這修法了這麼多年下來這條一直擺在這邊那你現在跟我說這條不適用\n\n02:53.416 --> 03:08.012\n那什麼時候才施用那這條牌要做什麼這條在過往百分之九十以上的時間都不會掉到這個情境因為當時的剩下的猿兒都超過四個那你那個母法的這個依據在哪裡\n\n03:08.820 --> 03:37.225\n在94年的那個院會的立法公報大院的相關的公報裡頭在94年的我們有發布新聞稿大意就是說行政院在他的立法說明裡頭有講到說是以全體總額掛戶7人當時的草案都是全體法定總額是7人來說明的那後續通過版本雖然人數有採其他政黨的提案但是這個\n\n03:38.866 --> 03:56.301\n這個這方面的一些共識認知都是在一貫來通過來處理的所以都是認定為法定總額所以當然你說你這是共識啦但本席覺得這不是共識啦因為就是我們提到的嘛如果你意思要你這樣寫他已經幫你排除了他說未依法就任的委員\n\n03:57.549 --> 04:13.844\n現在就是很多委員沒有依法就任啦現在現行的狀況就是這樣他不就幫你解決這件事情了嗎但是他的位階是行政規則他一般跟無法跟法律抵觸的話這邊是就條文本身我們有看到抵觸的可能性啦\n\n04:14.685 --> 04:29.394\n因為你條文沒有寫這個而且當初的立法意旨你說民國94年那個立法意旨寫的時候是七個人那你照這樣講你現在超過七個人不就又違反了這個立法意旨嗎所以我覺得在這邊爭論這個立法意旨因為這立法意旨跟當初已經不太一樣了那你們既然也依據這個\n\n04:32.090 --> 04:57.421\n這個國調宣傳媒委員會訂定本要點已經訂了這個東西依照你們法定職權訂的這些這是你們第一條寫的你們這個要點是依據這個通傳會委員會會行使法定職權所以特地訂定了這個要點所以訂定這個要點的第二條是直接講明了說如果有委員未依法就任或就任或出缺所以不羈辱委員總和不羈辱委員總和是你們寫的又不是我寫的這是好幾年前好久以前就寫的啊那所以我想今天要講這樣子第一個\n\n04:59.133 --> 05:23.640\n前面很多委員提到了今天NCC委員出缺是因為行政院沒有提委員進來我沒得審這第一個部分這我也沒辦法但我今天想幫你解決的是問題解決問題的時候有找到這一條那基本上這一條就是讓你們有一個理由或是有一個說法至少是你們定的啊衛醫法而且這些年下來立法院也沒有修正最後是修正我剛剛講最後是修正去年的8月2號了\n\n05:24.949 --> 05:46.923\n已經很近代了那時候已經經歷過這個那時候去年陳耀祥是7月31去職的嘛那這個8月2號修正已經是新的結果出來那這樣子的東西我認為主委你應該去試用去思考能不能試用這條讓ANCC趕快回復運作不然你看我們的主委院長去年的11月28號說要提建經過四個月到目前還是沒有提\n\n05:47.463 --> 06:02.991\n那NC就是停擺嘛我現在也不是辦法啦好看完報告如果說適用這東西也會違法因為中央法規標準法大概大概一規定是說位階比較低的行政規則如果以母法抵觸它是無效的我們必須要施那當然前提是要以母法抵觸啊那誰會誰來認定這件事情\n\n06:05.612 --> 06:30.370\n因為當初的立法說明他都是法律的文件之一一般法律的一些運作實踐的操作都是他為沒有寫的都看立法說明當時的情境是這樣如果是這樣的話那我是想問你們這一條是不是要把它修掉那把它提進來啊大家公開的來辯論一下這件事情到底不能說我說了算你說了算嘛因為今天擺明就是有這個法律要點還在這邊是你們會議召開的這個要點還擺在這邊說\n\n06:35.454 --> 06:59.292\n為依法就任的不算在總額裡面幫你們找到的法律法源依據了嘛對委員說的沒錯我們這個該檢討的行政規則我們會要來檢討好主委那人事談完談錢的問題剛剛其他委員提到說這個NCC是預算被刪除的重災區但是你剛剛提到這個包括你們新聞稿提到你們今年可能四月就會無法執行相關業務是嗎\n\n07:01.380 --> 07:29.261\n如果我們把土地租金的扣留下來如期支付的話確實是上半年度就會我想請問一下主委抱歉請問代理主委但是這個NCC到底執行業務的時候都是用哪裡的錢在執行業務我們現在單位預算是維持機關基本運作所需比方說水電費水電費一般事務費業務費等等那至於說業務費是在我們另外的通傳基金\n\n07:30.602 --> 07:48.425\n講到重點嘛就基金嘛今年基金啦通訊傳播監督管理基金的今年預算編的是5億那這個有線廣播電視事業發展基金編的預算是2.7億這5億跟7億2.7億合起來大概7點7.7億快8億左右的這個經費我想問一下主委這幾億這8億這7點多7.7億的經費到目前為止運作有沒有問題\n\n07:59.315 --> 08:19.960\n目前沒有但是跟委員報告因為那些不管是有線還是通訊傳播很多是資訊化的像數位化時代很多是電腦化的會有一些資訊系統資訊系統他吃的水電費跟那個通訊費是用在單位基金裡頭的是在單位預算裡頭的對這個齁這個當初我們在委員會審查預算的時候我們都很清楚基本上\n\n08:21.360 --> 08:42.110\nNCC本部的預算其實在委會的時候是很順利的因為沒什麼錢坦白說是這樣子沒有什麼重點大家是把重點放在所謂的基金的審查因為其實NCC在執行業務的時候主要應該是在這個基金裡面你們的錢都放在基金裡面那基金到目前為止其實也沒有刪應該說也還沒開始審所以沒有實質上對你們業務認為沒有什麼具體的實質業務的影響\n\n08:48.493 --> 08:55.317\n所以我覺得主委剛剛有一些委員提到說NCC這個希望你們不要這樣子帶頭的去做這樣子的宣傳\n\n08:56.511 --> 09:18.899\n因為你說四月斷稅但問題是沒有因為基金很多錢在裡面跟委員報告都是剛才跟委員報告因為我們都資訊化很多的系統他是吃單位預算裡頭的通訊費跟水電費而且我這邊沒有辦法沒有預算來支援的話那個通常系統都會停止運作停止運作的話其實不管基金那邊多少錢這邊還是幾乎都停擺\n\n09:20.632 --> 09:47.158\n所以你基金裡面還是有很多這個支出項目是例行性的會支出啦這個在過去的決算在過去的支用裡面都有放在裡面來支出所以我想沒有你講的這麼嚴重我們希望我們就事論事我是覺得大家就事論事跟過去的經驗來看其實基金你們的運用是非常的彈性的我們這樣講就好了我們沒有說我也不特別去點出來你花什麼錢但是基金的運用是非常非常彈性的\n\n09:47.298 --> 10:15.048\n沒有像主委講的這麼嚴重我希望當然現在就這樣子了當然不管預算的這個狀況已經是現行你的本預算狀況就是這樣子那既然基金有給你這麼多錢讓你執行這些業務我希望這主委想辦法應該是能夠去比照廣利能夠來執行相關業務的好不好主委謝謝委員但是單位預算跟基金的流用沒關係我剛剛提了其實基金裡面運用非常彈性我是說真的這個\n\n10:17.711 --> 10:28.297\n今年就知道了今年這個預算決算的時候你就會看到我們把預算決算拿出來看去基金預算是非常非常彈性不一定你如你所說的這樣這麼的一次性好不好主委我們就請到這邊啦好謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.369,"end":6.697,"text":"好謝謝主席我們請代主委陳重樹代理主委謝謝好那陳代主委"},{"start":13.121,"end":36.253,"text":"主委好我想主委這個任何一個政府機關最重要兩件事情一個是人事一個是經費那我們今天先來討論人事的部分我想大家都關注到說這個換照的部分可能這個會因為委會人事不足沒辦法開會我想確認一下所謂的這個換照是不是屬於這個通訊傳播事業的經營權的取得變更或消滅"},{"start":37.602,"end":65.474,"text":"是嗎是沒錯那我剛剛所述的這個文字是放在國家通訊傳播委員會委員會委員的這個會議議事要點我想這應該不是詐騙網站這個是網址是ncclaw.ncc.gov.tw在你們NCC網站上面有一個國家通訊傳播委員會委員會會議議事要點的一個要點這是你們開會的一個基本的一個要點"},{"start":66.474,"end":77.635,"text":"那我剛剛所述的這個放在第五條這個第六項裡面這個有關於通訊傳播事業經濟權取得電源或消費者處分之審議是透過這要點來處理的是吧 是不是這樣子"},{"start":78.317,"end":105.065,"text":"各位報告他是屬於一個行政就是一般行政規則他的位階比組織法還要低那組織法的從94年制定的當時他是以法定總額來認定的這個在立法院的公報裡頭都可及主委我們可以當然來討論一下啦這個部分因為畢竟你們的意思要點的第二條就寫了嘛這是你們意思要點自己寫的"},{"start":106.26,"end":134.588,"text":"那你自己是說你們意思要點從民國94年到最後的修正是113年8月2號第二條本委本會委員會會議由權力委員組成之未依法就任委員或就任後出缺者不記錄委員總額這件事情是你們明文寫在你們的網站上面的意思要點如果這一條照主委的意思你是不是說你覺得這一條跟你們的立法意旨是抵觸的那所以這一條是無效的你是這個意思嗎"},{"start":136.247,"end":152.63,"text":"這邊的試用上會要以母法組織法來優先試用那如果這樣的話你這個國家通訊傳播委員會的第1條一開始就是錯誤的啦如果照你這個說法的話你後面的你如果開會意思要點是錯誤的話那我想請問一下你們委員會怎麼召開的"},{"start":154.085,"end":171.815,"text":"我們現在無法組成委員會 現在委員會並沒有召開我的意思是說如果今天連議事要點你不認因為這個是 我想最後這修法是去年8月2號去年8月2號也沒有提到這個修法就修別的東西那結果最後這修法了這麼多年下來這條一直擺在這邊那你現在跟我說這條不適用"},{"start":173.416,"end":188.012,"text":"那什麼時候才施用那這條牌要做什麼這條在過往百分之九十以上的時間都不會掉到這個情境因為當時的剩下的猿兒都超過四個那你那個母法的這個依據在哪裡"},{"start":188.82,"end":217.225,"text":"在94年的那個院會的立法公報大院的相關的公報裡頭在94年的我們有發布新聞稿大意就是說行政院在他的立法說明裡頭有講到說是以全體總額掛戶7人當時的草案都是全體法定總額是7人來說明的那後續通過版本雖然人數有採其他政黨的提案但是這個"},{"start":218.866,"end":236.301,"text":"這個這方面的一些共識認知都是在一貫來通過來處理的所以都是認定為法定總額所以當然你說你這是共識啦但本席覺得這不是共識啦因為就是我們提到的嘛如果你意思要你這樣寫他已經幫你排除了他說未依法就任的委員"},{"start":237.549,"end":253.844,"text":"現在就是很多委員沒有依法就任啦現在現行的狀況就是這樣他不就幫你解決這件事情了嗎但是他的位階是行政規則他一般跟無法跟法律抵觸的話這邊是就條文本身我們有看到抵觸的可能性啦"},{"start":254.685,"end":269.394,"text":"因為你條文沒有寫這個而且當初的立法意旨你說民國94年那個立法意旨寫的時候是七個人那你照這樣講你現在超過七個人不就又違反了這個立法意旨嗎所以我覺得在這邊爭論這個立法意旨因為這立法意旨跟當初已經不太一樣了那你們既然也依據這個"},{"start":272.09,"end":297.421,"text":"這個國調宣傳媒委員會訂定本要點已經訂了這個東西依照你們法定職權訂的這些這是你們第一條寫的你們這個要點是依據這個通傳會委員會會行使法定職權所以特地訂定了這個要點所以訂定這個要點的第二條是直接講明了說如果有委員未依法就任或就任或出缺所以不羈辱委員總和不羈辱委員總和是你們寫的又不是我寫的這是好幾年前好久以前就寫的啊那所以我想今天要講這樣子第一個"},{"start":299.133,"end":323.64,"text":"前面很多委員提到了 今天NCC委員出缺是因為行政院沒有提委員進來 我沒得審這第一個部分 這我也沒辦法但我今天想幫你解決的是問題解決問題的時候有找到這一條那基本上這一條就是讓你們有一個理由或是有一個說法至少是你們定的啊 衛醫法 而且這些年下來立法院也沒有修正最後是修正 我剛剛講 最後是修正去年的8月2號了"},{"start":324.949,"end":346.923,"text":"已經很近代了那時候已經經歷過這個那時候去年陳耀祥是7月31去職的嘛那這個8月2號修正已經是新的結果出來那這樣子的東西我認為主委你應該去試用去思考能不能試用這條讓ANCC趕快回復運作不然你看我們的主委院長去年的11月28號說要提建經過四個月到目前還是沒有提"},{"start":347.463,"end":362.991,"text":"那NC就是停擺嘛我現在也不是辦法啦好 看完報告如果說適用這東西也會違法因為中央法規標準法大概大概一規定是說位階比較低的行政規則如果以母法抵觸它是無效的我們必須要施那當然前提是要以母法抵觸啊那誰會誰來認定這件事情"},{"start":365.612,"end":390.37,"text":"因為當初的立法說明他都是法律的文件之一一般法律的一些運作實踐的操作都是他為沒有寫的都看立法說明當時的情境是這樣如果是這樣的話那我是想問你們這一條是不是要把它修掉那把它提進來啊大家公開的來辯論一下這件事情到底不能說我說了算你說了算嘛因為今天擺明就是有這個法律要點還在這邊是你們會議召開的這個要點還擺在這邊說"},{"start":395.454,"end":419.292,"text":"為依法就任的不算在總額裡面幫你們找到的法律法源依據了嘛對委員說的沒錯我們這個該檢討的行政規則我們會要來檢討好主委那人事談完談錢的問題剛剛其他委員提到說這個NCC是預算被刪除的重災區但是你剛剛提到這個包括你們新聞稿提到你們今年可能四月就會無法執行相關業務是嗎"},{"start":421.38,"end":449.261,"text":"如果我們把土地租金的扣留下來如期支付的話確實是上半年度就會我想請問一下主委抱歉請問代理主委但是這個NCC到底執行業務的時候都是用哪裡的錢在執行業務我們現在單位預算是維持機關基本運作所需比方說水電費水電費 一般事務費 業務費等等那至於說業務費是在我們另外的通傳基金"},{"start":450.602,"end":468.425,"text":"講到重點嘛 就基金嘛 今年基金啦通訊傳播監督管理基金的今年預算編的是5億那這個有線廣播電視事業發展基金編的預算是2.7億這5億跟7億 2.7億合起來大概7點7.7億快8億左右的這個經費我想問一下主委這幾億 這8億 這7點多 7.7億的經費到目前為止運作有沒有問題"},{"start":479.315,"end":499.96,"text":"目前沒有但是跟委員報告因為那些不管是有線還是通訊傳播很多是資訊化的像數位化時代很多是電腦化的會有一些資訊系統資訊系統他吃的水電費跟那個通訊費是用在單位基金裡頭的是在單位預算裡頭的對這個齁這個當初我們在委員會審查預算的時候我們都很清楚基本上"},{"start":501.36,"end":522.11,"text":"NCC本部的預算其實在委會的時候是很順利的因為沒什麼錢坦白說是這樣子沒有什麼重點大家是把重點放在所謂的基金的審查因為其實NCC在執行業務的時候主要應該是在這個基金裡面你們的錢都放在基金裡面那基金到目前為止其實也沒有刪應該說也還沒開始審所以沒有實質上對你們業務認為沒有什麼具體的實質業務的影響"},{"start":528.493,"end":535.317,"text":"所以我覺得主委剛剛有一些委員提到說NCC這個希望你們不要這樣子帶頭的去做這樣子的宣傳"},{"start":536.511,"end":558.899,"text":"因為你說四月斷稅 但問題是沒有 因為基金很多錢在裡面跟委員報告 都是剛才跟委員報告因為我們都資訊化 很多的系統他是吃單位預算裡頭的通訊費跟水電費而且我這邊沒有辦法 沒有預算來支援的話那個通常系統都會停止運作 停止運作的話其實不管基金那邊多少錢 這邊還是幾乎都停擺"},{"start":560.632,"end":587.158,"text":"所以你基金裡面還是有很多這個支出項目是例行性的會支出啦這個在過去的決算在過去的支用裡面都有放在裡面來支出所以我想沒有你講的這麼嚴重我們希望我們就事論事我是覺得大家就事論事跟過去的經驗來看其實基金你們的運用是非常的彈性的我們這樣講就好了我們沒有說我也不特別去點出來你花什麼錢但是基金的運用是非常非常彈性的"},{"start":587.298,"end":615.048,"text":"沒有像主委講的這麼嚴重我希望當然現在就這樣子了當然不管預算的這個狀況已經是現行你的本預算狀況就是這樣子那既然基金有給你這麼多錢讓你執行這些業務我希望這主委想辦法應該是能夠去比照廣利能夠來執行相關業務的好不好主委謝謝委員但是單位預算跟基金的流用沒關係我剛剛提了其實基金裡面運用非常彈性我是說真的這個"},{"start":617.711,"end":628.297,"text":"今年就知道了今年這個預算決算的時候你就會看到我們把預算決算拿出來看去基金預算是非常非常彈性不一定你如你所說的這樣這麼的一次性好不好主委我們就請到這邊啦好謝謝委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":441,"blocks":[["黃委員健豪：（10時23分）謝謝主席，我們請陳崇樹代理主委，謝謝。"],["主席：好，請陳代主委。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：委員好。"],["黃委員健豪：主委好。主委，任何一個政府機關最重要的兩件事情，一個是人事，一個是經費，我們今天先來討論人事的部分。大家都關注到，換照的部分可能會因為委員會人數不足沒辦法開會，我想確認一下，所謂的換照是不是屬於通訊傳播事業經營權的取得、變更或消滅，是嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是，沒錯。"],["黃委員健豪：我剛剛所敘述的文字，是放在「國家通訊傳播委員會委員會議議事要點」，我想這應該不是詐騙網站，網址是ncclaw.ncc.gov.tw，在你們NCC的網站上面有一個「國家通訊傳播委員會委員會議議事要點」，這是你們據以開會的基本要點。我剛剛所述的放在第五條第六項裡面，有關通訊傳播事業經營權取得、變更或消滅之處分案之審議，是透過這要點來處理的，是吧？是不是這樣子？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：跟委員報告，它屬於一般行政規則，它的位階比組織法還要低。組織法在94年制定的當時，它是以法定總額來認定的，這個在立法院的公報裡頭都有跡可尋。"],["黃委員健豪：主委，我們可以大概討論一下這個部分，因為畢竟你們的議事要點第二條就寫了，這是你們的議事要點自己寫的，那你的意思是說，你們的議事要點從民國94年到最後修正是113年8月2號，第二條「本會委員會議由全體委員組成之。未依法就任委員或就任後出缺者，不計入委員總額。」這件事情明文寫在你們網站上面的議事要點，如果這一條，照主委的意思，你是不是說你覺得這一條跟你們的立法意旨是牴觸的，所以這一條是無效的，你是這個意思嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：這邊在適用上要以母法（組織法）來優先適用。"],["黃委員健豪：如果這樣的話，這個「國家通訊傳播委員會委員會議議事要點」的第二條一開始就是錯誤的啦！如果照你這個說法，你們開會所根據的議事要點是錯誤的話，那我想請問一下，你們委員會怎麼召開的？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：我們現在無法組成委員會，現在委員會並沒有召開。"],["黃委員健豪：我的意思是，如果今天連議事要點你都不認，這個要點最後一次修法是去年8月2號，去年8月2號也沒有提到這個修法，就修別的東西，結果這一次修法了，這麼多年下來，這一條一直擺在這邊，你現在跟我說這條不適用，那什麼時候才適用？那這條擺在這邊做什麼？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：在過往百分之九十以上的時間都不會掉到這條的情境，因為當時剩下的員額都超過10個。"],["黃委員健豪：那母法的依據在哪裡？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：在94年大院的立法院公報裡頭，我們有發布新聞稿，大意就是行政院在它的立法說明裡頭有講到是以全體總額（7人），當時的草案就是以法定總額是7人來算的，後續通過的版本，雖然人數有採納其他政黨的提案，但是這方面的共識、認知都是一貫按通過的來處理，都是認定為法定總額。"],["黃委員健豪：主委，剛才你說這是共識，但本席覺得這不是共識啦！就如我們提到的，如果你的議事要點這樣寫，它已經幫你排除了，它說「未依法就任的委員」，現在就是很多委員沒有依法就任，現行的狀況就是這樣，它不就是幫你解決了這件事情了嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：但是它的位階是行政規則，一般行政規則跟母法、跟法律牴觸的話，這邊是依法……"],["黃委員健豪：就條文本身，我沒有看到牴觸的可能性，因為你條文沒有寫這個，而且當初的立法意旨，你說民國94年當時立法意旨寫的時候是7個人，照你這樣講，現在超過7個人不就又違反立法意旨了嗎？所以我覺得在這邊爭論立法意旨，因為這個立法意旨跟當初已經不太一樣，你們既然也依據，如同第一條所寫的「國家通訊傳播委員會為舉行委員會議，行使法定職權，特訂定本要點。」本要點第二條就直接講明：如果有委員未依法就任或就任後出缺者，不計入委員總額。不計入委員總額是你們寫的，又不是我寫的，這也是好久以前就寫的。所以我今天要講的是，第一個，前面很多委員提到的，今天NCC委員出缺是因為行政院沒有提委員名單進來，我們沒得審，這是第一部分，這個我也沒有辦法。但是我今天是想要幫你解決問題，在思考如何解決問題的時候找到這一條，基本上這一條就是讓你們有一個理由或是有一個說法，至少是你們訂的，而且這些年下來立法院也沒有修正，我剛剛講，最後一次修正是去年的8月2號，距離現在很近，去年陳耀祥是7月31日去職的，那8月2號的修正新的結果已經出來，我認為主委，你應該去思考能不能適用這條讓NCC趕快回復運作。不然你看，我們卓院長去年11月28號說要提，到現在已經過四個月，到目前還是沒有提，那NCC就是停擺嘛，我想這也不是辦法啦。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：跟委員報告，如果適用這個也會違法，因為中央法規標準法有規定，位階比較低的行政規則如果與母法牴觸，它是無效的，我們必須要……"],["黃委員健豪：當然前提是要與母法牴觸，那誰來認定這件事情？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：因為當初的立法說明就是法律的文件之一，一般法律、法令的運作、實踐的操作都是這樣，條文沒有寫的都看立法說明，當時的情境是這樣……"],["黃委員健豪：主委，如果是這樣的話，我想請問，你們是不是要把這一條修掉？要把它提進來啊！"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是，沒錯。"],["黃委員健豪：大家公開的辯論一下這件事情，道理不能說是我說了算或是你說了算，因為今天擺明就是有這個法律要點還存在，是你們召開會議的議事要點中還明文規定，未依法就任的不算在總額裡面，我幫你們找到了法源依據了嘛。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：對，委員說的沒錯，我們該檢討的行政規則，我們要來檢討。"],["黃委員健豪：好，主委，人事談完，然後要談錢的問題。剛剛其他委員提到NCC是預算被刪除的重災區，但是你剛剛提到、包含你們新聞稿提到，你們今年4月可能就會無法執行相關業務，是嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：如果我們把扣留下來的土地租金如期支付的話，確實是上半年度就會……"],["黃委員健豪：我想請問一下代理主委，NCC執行業務的時候都是用哪裡的錢在執行業務？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：我們現在單位預算是維持機關基本運作所需，比方說水電費、一般事務費、業務費等等，至於業務費是在我們另外的通傳基金。"],["黃委員健豪：講到重點了，基金。通訊傳播監督管理基金今年編列的預算是5億，有線廣播電視事業發展基金編列預算是2.7億，5億跟2.7億合起來大概有7.7億，快8億左右的經費。我想問一下主委，這7.7億的經費到目前為止運作有沒有問題？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：目前沒有，但是跟委員報告，那些不管是有線還是通訊傳播，現在是數位化時代，很多都是電腦化的資訊系統，資訊系統吃的水電費跟通訊費是在單位預算裡頭。"],["黃委員健豪：主委，這個當初我們在委員會審查預算的時候都很清楚，基本上NCC本部的預算在委員會的時候是很順利的，因為沒什麼錢，坦白說是這樣子，沒有什麼重點，大家是把重點放在基金的審查，因為確實NCC在執行業務的時候主要應該是在基金裡面，你們的錢都放在基金裡面，基金到目前為止其實也沒有刪，應該說也還沒開始審，所以我認為對你們沒有什麼具體實質業務的影響。主委，剛剛有一些委員提到，希望NCC不要帶頭去做這樣子的宣傳，因為你說4月斷炊，但其實沒有，因為很多錢在基金裡面。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：跟委員報告，就是剛才跟委員報告的，因為我們都資訊化，很多系統是吃單位預算裡頭的通訊費跟水電費，如果這邊沒有預算來支應的話，那些通傳系統都會停止運作，停止運作的話，不管基金那邊有多少錢，這邊還是幾乎都停擺。"],["黃委員健豪：主委，你們基金裡面還是有很多支出項目是例行性的支出，這個在過去的決算、在過去的支用裡面都有放在裡面來支出，所以我想沒有你講得這麼嚴重，我希望我們就事論事，以過去的經驗來看，其實你們基金的運用是非常彈性的，我們這樣講就好了，我也不去特別點出來你花了什麼錢，但是基金的運用是非常非常彈性的，沒有像主委講得這麼嚴重。現在你本預算的狀況就是這樣子，既然基金有給你這麼多錢讓你執行這些業務，我希望主委想辦法，應該是能夠比照往例來執行相關業務，好不好？主委。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：謝謝委員，但是單位預算跟基金的流用……"],["黃委員健豪：沒關係，我剛剛提了，其實你們基金的運用非常彈性，我是說真的，今年就知道了，今年預算決算的時候，我們把預算決算拿出來看，你就會看到其實基金預算是非常非常彈性，不一定如你所說的這麼的一致性，主委，我就提到這邊了。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝黃健豪委員。","現在請陳雪生委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-4","speakers":["許智傑","洪孟楷","李昆澤","蔡其昌","黃國昌","陳素月","林俊憲","黃健豪","陳雪生","邱若華","徐富癸","廖先翔","陳冠廷","魯明哲","林國成","翁曉玲","葉元之","蔡易餘","王鴻薇","何欣純","游顥","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":145,"meetingDate":["2025-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1143201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143201_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員陳崇樹列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143201_00003"}}}