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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,755 --> 00:00:06,942\n謝謝主席請這個理事長\n\n2\n00:00:15,217 --> 00:00:39,202\n市長好委員好今天這個題目很大那其實也討論了很久但是我們的出生率好像也不見提高雖然政府也很努力做了很多的政策那就你的部分來講政府的這個不管是這個公幼公托或是說給予這個父母親的一些津貼上面的補助那可是農年的這個生育率還是往下降那就你的部分來講\n\n3\n00:00:40,322 --> 00:00:59,402\n你覺得有什麼是急迫性的可以做的可以現在做處理的讓這個出生率可以提高先馬上齁馬上我覺得今天老實說聽下來我覺得林淑芬林委員她所提那個就有關於那個社會住宅社會住宅社會住宅然後\n\n4\n00:01:00,763 --> 00:01:26,643\n我老實說當然這不是我全責但是我如果說以現在目前最有感的話可能確實就是說社會住宅那邊然後在這一個親子就是我們就是訴求一個叫做親子住宅然後在那裡面的托育完全是一條龍的服務我跟你們報告以前我在德國讀書德國讀書裡面其實事實上確實是有家庭宿舍就是給年輕的這一個就是大學生\n\n5\n00:01:27,964 --> 00:01:55,842\n沒問題啊你結婚除了單身之外你也有家庭宿舍然後學校裡面我們那叫kita就是kindergarten就在學校附近那這個其實我覺得我認為這是一個最好的一個設計如果當然我這樣可能會就是總是我們有雖然說這不是這是算內政部的啦沒關係那你也可以以一個學者的身份來說明一下那我看到就是說其實政府有蠻多政策那不過你也點到就是說其實\n\n6\n00:01:58,344 --> 00:02:27,204\n住的一個壓力房租的一個壓力買房的一個壓力的確是讓很多的這些父母他們在結婚之後他們覺得說那我如果要生小孩那可是我自己要要要付房租有這麼多的一些房貸的壓力的話那有可能生小孩的這一個念頭就會打消了那當然是一個一個很重要的因素就是說讓我們的父母他願意生小孩而且呢他也沒有這一個房租房貸的壓力的情況之下或許\n\n7\n00:02:28,785 --> 00:02:44,216\n這個生小孩的這個慾望或是意念就會提高了沒錯沒錯我跟您簡單報告一下就我所知在那個大林在那個林口林口那個國寨我上次跟董建宏次長有去那邊選手村改成這一個社宅我跟委員報告\n\n8\n00:02:45,475 --> 00:03:12,552\n就是那邊的那個嬰兒出生率確實比較高我沒有實際的數據但是我在那邊看很多就是年輕人就是大量進駐而且我聽那邊的那個住戶說大概都生兩胎生兩個小朋友因為社會住宅那個租金上面就比較便宜嘛是所以我意思是說很可惜今天我看沒有內政部的來啦今天是主要就是衛福部跟勞動部好\n\n9\n00:03:13,673 --> 00:03:38,945\n那我再請教一下我請勞動部好了勞動部的次長那次長請回好感謝委員謝謝次長那其實除了這個讓我們的父母這個在沒有房租的或是房貸壓力之下有可能會比較願意生小孩那另外一個就是說能夠在生完小孩之後或是生完小孩之前他能夠他的工作不要去受到影響或是說這個\n\n10\n00:03:41,000 --> 00:04:08,903\n這個比如送完小孩之後回到這個工作崗位上面能夠順利的能夠來接軌我覺得這個也是一個相當重要的那我先請教一下就是說包含本席在內有許多的委員有提到這個性別平等工作法的第15條的修正案就是說我們把這一個賠產產價我們就多了一個叫做這一個生產準備價然後那當然天數也會把它加長那就是說把這一個產情教育把它\n\n11\n00:04:09,443 --> 00:04:24,559\n把它加進去加進去對那讓這一個這個爸爸或媽媽他們能夠在這一個準備生產的時候有更多的這一個生產的一些知識或教育在那請問一下次長你們對於這個修法的內容看法怎麼樣\n\n12\n00:04:26,694 --> 00:04:49,591\n這個部分確實是外界很關注的議題那我們覺得這個就像委員剛剛講的如果能夠這樣做確實能夠幫助讓它能夠銜接起來讓這個新手爸媽的育兒那現在才七天嘛那我看很多的委員的提案大概就是會增加天數啦那一樣也是有心的啦那有沒有辦法就是說我們往這個方向來做修法\n\n13\n00:04:50,694 --> 00:04:57,023\n如果是涉及有薪的話老實說就涉及到裁員的問題那有薪才有這個誘因沒有薪就沒有誘因了\n\n14\n00:05:01,669 --> 00:05:26,221\n這個如果是老實說因為我們台灣98%左右都是中小企業那雇主這邊的負擔會加重那雇主他們是不是他們的財務問題也要考量那如果是由政府來支出那政府目前委員都知道我們現在政府今年因為大院這個審查預算還有財劃法的關係這個部分政府可預期然後這個裁員可能會不是那麼\n\n15\n00:05:26,681 --> 00:05:55,238\n那當然這有部分啦一個是財化法的關係那預算可能會少然後另外一個就是說預算有減少但是我是認為啦就是說既然少子化已經是一個國安的一個問題了那如何用這個政府有限的資源裡面讓這個父母能夠願意去生小孩那是最重要的不然我們今天談了這麼多題目如果最後都是歸結到說政府的經費不夠那如果這樣子的話那其實什麼問題都不用談就回到原點了嘛那出生率就越來越往下降了啦\n\n16\n00:05:55,999 --> 00:06:12,718\n這是一個我是希望說你們能夠就很多的立委所提案的這部分這個生產準備價來做個考量那當然是有心的那另外一個就是說韓信的育嬰留職停薪去年下半年有試辦了那現在試辦的成效怎麼樣\n\n17\n00:06:13,559 --> 00:06:42,100\n已經結束了嘛對不對結束了我們已經透過找示範單位來諮詢作者還有問卷調查還有去拜訪民間托育團體我們已經把資料大概收整到接近關於結束就是說彈性現在本來是一個月那現在就是說五天到七天那我說接下來我不曉得示範你覺得示範的情況是怎麼樣那接下來有沒有機會就是說我們這個彈性的運營價可以改成日\n\n18\n00:06:43,527 --> 00:06:53,872\n各位所以我們先前我有講我們正在內部通盤檢討希望能夠朝向更彈性的方向來規劃更彈性就是日了嘛因為現在是月啊那就是日啊是不是\n\n19\n00:06:54,900 --> 00:07:17,981\n這個都在我們的考量評估中因為這也是一個方式因為就是說我可以請我沒有想要小時那個小時就我覺得可能會比較複雜一點點就是說日那至少日我可以讓很多家長他可以說今天臨時有什麼事情了小孩子生病或什麼之類的我可以很彈性的說我都了解好不好因為這個東西既然有事辦了要有一個結果出來\n\n20\n00:07:18,621 --> 00:07:36,241\n那預計哪時候會有一個結果出來那是不是可以更彈性往日月方面做調整大概哪時候會有一個結果出來我們也希望盡快但是要配合剛講的暈流停之路要修法整體來作業這樣子我們希望盡快好那抱歉主席我再用一點時間有沒有教育部\n\n21\n00:07:37,566 --> 00:08:01,651\n國教署今天有副署長來我來問一下就是說現在這個幼保畢業生大概只有15%願意進入職場所以說這個也造成了另外一個問題就是說我們要降低師生比到1比12這兩個是環環相扣的你們怎麼去增加就是說這個幼保的畢業生他願意來進入這個幼保的這個領域\n\n22\n00:08:05,060 --> 00:08:33,773\n好那跟委員報告就是他問題在哪裡就是說比如說他是薪資的問題那還是說這個他們沒有辦法有這個9任獎金的問題好跟委員先報告一下如果是在職前的部分培育那除了目前其實不管是教保員的培育應該是夠的那但是教師可能是比較需要再做協助那我們國教署跟部裡面的私知師有合作所以呢為了要將生死比\n\n23\n00:08:34,173 --> 00:08:53,889\n那有協助我們多培育老師跟教保員的部分就是說他有教保的有專業但是他不願意當教保員那進到職場的部分我們目前在做因為我們在擴大公共化的時候其實也會增加我們這些公部門禁用教保服務人員那另外來講我們要合作準公共\n\n24\n00:08:54,329 --> 00:09:15,199\n那總公共的部分我們的合作要件裡頭也把那個基本工資的部分如果是新三年以下在今年也幫他們調升到四萬兩千多三萬四千兩百多那如果說他今天是六年以上也大概到四萬多所以我們會變成從公共跟總公共的部分來調整薪資\n\n25\n00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:29,071\n讓更多的夥伴願意進來那再來是調降生思比的部分會讓他們進到職場的工作負擔為稍微有一些緩解所以目前在公立公共化幼兒園到目前為止也有86%的幼兒園已經達到1比12\n\n26\n00:09:33,215 --> 00:10:01,752\n那今年8月也希望所有公共化的幼兒園可以達成那總公共呢從去年開始加入之後今年也會開始進入調降升師比也會希望在115年達成所以透過新資的引導以及職場裡頭那對於他服務學生的人數的降低那希望對他們的工作負擔可以有所緩解以上我再問最後一個問題現在這個准公幼的教保人員跟這個非立幼兒園的教保人員薪資有一樣嗎\n\n27\n00:10:03,486 --> 00:10:18,711\n呃準工跟呃非是不太一樣吼那因為非營利幼兒園幾乎也是等於政府自己呃在經營的概念吼那雖然他是由民間團體共同來合作那他不會有盈餘全部都是以成本計價\n\n28\n00:10:19,771 --> 00:10:46,048\n那總工的部分因為它是屬於私人的它財務部分並不是我們在做相關的處理那我們唯一的是訂定了這些要件那它不能低於這些要件可以訂得更高會不會有同工不同仇的這一個現象因為它畢竟是在私人經營我們訂的是要跟我們合作的時候你的薪資一定要達到多少以上但是除了我們訂的以上之外我們希望這些業者僱主\n\n29\n00:10:46,488 --> 00:11:08,232\n能夠自己也可以再調高所以透過這個機制來託助會不會老師就跑掉了到目前看起來是還好因為有在關注那個流動力的問題只是他們如果說找不到新的這些夥伴們剛有跟委員報告是獅子醫教師也共同協助我們在座人員的培育好那以上先這樣問問這樣子就好好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5755\t6942\t謝謝主席請這個理事長\n15217\t39202\t市長好委員好今天這個題目很大那其實也討論了很久但是我們的出生率好像也不見提高雖然政府也很努力做了很多的政策那就你的部分來講政府的這個不管是這個公幼公托或是說給予這個父母親的一些津貼上面的補助那可是農年的這個生育率還是往下降那就你的部分來講\n40322\t59402\t你覺得有什麼是急迫性的可以做的可以現在做處理的讓這個出生率可以提高先馬上齁馬上我覺得今天老實說聽下來我覺得林淑芬林委員她所提那個就有關於那個社會住宅社會住宅社會住宅然後\n60763\t86643\t我老實說當然這不是我全責但是我如果說以現在目前最有感的話可能確實就是說社會住宅那邊然後在這一個親子就是我們就是訴求一個叫做親子住宅然後在那裡面的托育完全是一條龍的服務我跟你們報告以前我在德國讀書德國讀書裡面其實事實上確實是有家庭宿舍就是給年輕的這一個就是大學生\n87964\t115842\t沒問題啊你結婚除了單身之外你也有家庭宿舍然後學校裡面我們那叫kita就是kindergarten就在學校附近那這個其實我覺得我認為這是一個最好的一個設計如果當然我這樣可能會就是總是我們有雖然說這不是這是算內政部的啦沒關係那你也可以以一個學者的身份來說明一下那我看到就是說其實政府有蠻多政策那不過你也點到就是說其實\n118344\t147204\t住的一個壓力房租的一個壓力買房的一個壓力的確是讓很多的這些父母他們在結婚之後他們覺得說那我如果要生小孩那可是我自己要要要付房租有這麼多的一些房貸的壓力的話那有可能生小孩的這一個念頭就會打消了那當然是一個一個很重要的因素就是說讓我們的父母他願意生小孩而且呢他也沒有這一個房租房貸的壓力的情況之下或許\n148785\t164216\t這個生小孩的這個慾望或是意念就會提高了沒錯沒錯我跟您簡單報告一下就我所知在那個大林在那個林口林口那個國寨我上次跟董建宏次長有去那邊選手村改成這一個社宅我跟委員報告\n165475\t192552\t就是那邊的那個嬰兒出生率確實比較高我沒有實際的數據但是我在那邊看很多就是年輕人就是大量進駐而且我聽那邊的那個住戶說大概都生兩胎生兩個小朋友因為社會住宅那個租金上面就比較便宜嘛是所以我意思是說很可惜今天我看沒有內政部的來啦今天是主要就是衛福部跟勞動部好\n193673\t218945\t那我再請教一下 我請勞動部好了勞動部的次長那次長請回好 感謝委員 謝謝次長 那其實除了這個讓我們的父母這個在沒有房租的或是房貸壓力之下有可能會比較願意生小孩那另外一個就是說能夠在生完小孩之後或是生完小孩之前他能夠他的工作不要去受到影響或是說這個\n221000\t248903\t這個比如送完小孩之後回到這個工作崗位上面能夠順利的能夠來接軌我覺得這個也是一個相當重要的那我先請教一下就是說包含本席在內有許多的委員有提到這個性別平等工作法的第15條的修正案就是說我們把這一個賠產產價我們就多了一個叫做這一個生產準備價然後那當然天數也會把它加長那就是說把這一個產情教育把它\n249443\t264559\t把它加進去 加進去對 那讓這一個這個爸爸或媽媽他們能夠在這一個準備生產的時候有更多的這一個生產的一些知識或教育在那請問一下次長你們對於這個修法的內容看法怎麼樣\n266694\t289591\t這個部分確實是外界很關注的議題那我們覺得這個就像委員剛剛講的如果能夠這樣做確實能夠幫助讓它能夠銜接起來讓這個新手爸媽的育兒那現在才七天嘛那我看很多的委員的提案大概就是會增加天數啦那一樣也是有心的啦那有沒有辦法就是說我們往這個方向來做修法\n290694\t297023\t如果是涉及有薪的話老實說就涉及到裁員的問題那有薪才有這個誘因沒有薪就沒有誘因了\n301669\t326221\t這個如果是老實說因為我們台灣98%左右都是中小企業那雇主這邊的負擔會加重那雇主他們是不是他們的財務問題也要考量那如果是由政府來支出那政府目前委員都知道我們現在政府今年因為大院這個審查預算還有財劃法的關係這個部分政府可預期然後這個裁員可能會不是那麼\n326681\t355238\t那當然這有部分啦一個是財化法的關係那預算可能會少然後另外一個就是說預算有減少但是我是認為啦就是說既然少子化已經是一個國安的一個問題了那如何用這個政府有限的資源裡面讓這個父母能夠願意去生小孩那是最重要的不然我們今天談了這麼多題目如果最後都是歸結到說政府的經費不夠那如果這樣子的話那其實什麼問題都不用談就回到原點了嘛那出生率就越來越往下降了啦\n355999\t372718\t這是一個我是希望說你們能夠就很多的立委所提案的這部分這個生產準備價來做個考量那當然是有心的那另外一個就是說韓信的育嬰留職停薪去年下半年有試辦了那現在試辦的成效怎麼樣\n373559\t402100\t已經結束了嘛對不對結束了我們已經透過找示範單位來諮詢作者還有問卷調查還有去拜訪民間托育團體我們已經把資料大概收整到接近關於結束就是說彈性現在本來是一個月那現在就是說五天到七天那我說接下來我不曉得示範你覺得示範的情況是怎麼樣那接下來有沒有機會就是說我們這個彈性的運營價可以改成日\n403527\t413872\t各位所以我們先前我有講我們正在內部通盤檢討希望能夠朝向更彈性的方向來規劃更彈性就是日了嘛因為現在是月啊那就是日啊是不是\n414900\t437981\t這個都在我們的考量評估中因為這也是一個方式因為就是說我可以請我沒有想要小時那個小時就我覺得可能會比較複雜一點點就是說日那至少日我可以讓很多家長他可以說今天臨時有什麼事情了小孩子生病或什麼之類的我可以很彈性的說我都了解好不好因為這個東西既然有事辦了要有一個結果出來\n438621\t456241\t那預計哪時候會有一個結果出來那是不是可以更彈性往日月方面做調整大概哪時候會有一個結果出來我們也希望盡快但是要配合剛講的暈流停之路要修法整體來作業這樣子我們希望盡快好那抱歉主席我再用一點時間有沒有教育部\n457566\t481651\t國教署今天有副署長來我來問一下就是說現在這個幼保畢業生大概只有15%願意進入職場所以說這個也造成了另外一個問題就是說我們要降低師生比到1比12這兩個是環環相扣的你們怎麼去增加就是說這個幼保的畢業生他願意來進入這個幼保的這個領域\n485060\t513773\t好那跟委員報告就是他問題在哪裡就是說比如說他是薪資的問題那還是說這個他們沒有辦法有這個9任獎金的問題好跟委員先報告一下如果是在職前的部分培育那除了目前其實不管是教保員的培育應該是夠的那但是教師可能是比較需要再做協助那我們國教署跟部裡面的私知師有合作所以呢為了要將生死比\n514173\t533889\t那有協助我們多培育老師跟教保員的部分就是說他有教保的有專業但是他不願意當教保員那進到職場的部分我們目前在做因為我們在擴大公共化的時候其實也會增加我們這些公部門禁用教保服務人員那另外來講我們要合作準公共\n534329\t555199\t那總公共的部分我們的合作要件裡頭也把那個基本工資的部分如果是新三年以下在今年也幫他們調升到四萬兩千多三萬四千兩百多那如果說他今天是六年以上也大概到四萬多所以我們會變成從公共跟總公共的部分來調整薪資\n557280\t569071\t讓更多的夥伴願意進來那再來是調降生思比的部分會讓他們進到職場的工作負擔為稍微有一些緩解所以目前在公立公共化幼兒園到目前為止也有86%的幼兒園已經達到1比12\n573215\t601752\t那今年8月也希望所有公共化的幼兒園可以達成那總公共呢從去年開始加入之後今年也會開始進入調降升師比也會希望在115年達成所以透過新資的引導以及職場裡頭那對於他服務學生的人數的降低那希望對他們的工作負擔可以有所緩解以上我再問最後一個問題現在這個准公幼的教保人員跟這個非立幼兒園的教保人員薪資有一樣嗎\n603486\t618711\t呃準工跟呃非是不太一樣吼那因為非營利幼兒園幾乎也是等於政府自己呃在經營的概念吼那雖然他是由民間團體共同來合作那他不會有盈餘全部都是以成本計價\n619771\t646048\t那總工的部分因為它是屬於私人的它財務部分並不是我們在做相關的處理那我們唯一的是訂定了這些要件那它不能低於這些要件可以訂得更高會不會有同工不同仇的這一個現象因為它畢竟是在私人經營我們訂的是要跟我們合作的時候你的薪資一定要達到多少以上但是除了我們訂的以上之外我們希望這些業者 僱主\n646488\t668232\t能夠自己也可以再調高所以透過這個機制來託助會不會老師就跑掉了到目前看起來是還好因為有在關注那個流動力的問題只是他們如果說找不到新的這些夥伴們剛有跟委員報告是獅子醫教師也共同協助我們在座人員的培育好那以上先這樣問問這樣子就好好謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席請這個理事長\n市長好委員好今天這個題目很大那其實也討論了很久但是我們的出生率好像也不見提高雖然政府也很努力做了很多的政策那就你的部分來講政府的這個不管是這個公幼公托或是說給予這個父母親的一些津貼上面的補助那可是農年的這個生育率還是往下降那就你的部分來講\n你覺得有什麼是急迫性的可以做的可以現在做處理的讓這個出生率可以提高先馬上齁馬上我覺得今天老實說聽下來我覺得林淑芬林委員她所提那個就有關於那個社會住宅社會住宅社會住宅然後\n我老實說當然這不是我全責但是我如果說以現在目前最有感的話可能確實就是說社會住宅那邊然後在這一個親子就是我們就是訴求一個叫做親子住宅然後在那裡面的托育完全是一條龍的服務我跟你們報告以前我在德國讀書德國讀書裡面其實事實上確實是有家庭宿舍就是給年輕的這一個就是大學生\n沒問題啊你結婚除了單身之外你也有家庭宿舍然後學校裡面我們那叫kita就是kindergarten就在學校附近那這個其實我覺得我認為這是一個最好的一個設計如果當然我這樣可能會就是總是我們有雖然說這不是這是算內政部的啦沒關係那你也可以以一個學者的身份來說明一下那我看到就是說其實政府有蠻多政策那不過你也點到就是說其實\n住的一個壓力房租的一個壓力買房的一個壓力的確是讓很多的這些父母他們在結婚之後他們覺得說那我如果要生小孩那可是我自己要要要付房租有這麼多的一些房貸的壓力的話那有可能生小孩的這一個念頭就會打消了那當然是一個一個很重要的因素就是說讓我們的父母他願意生小孩而且呢他也沒有這一個房租房貸的壓力的情況之下或許\n這個生小孩的這個慾望或是意念就會提高了沒錯沒錯我跟您簡單報告一下就我所知在那個大林在那個林口林口那個國寨我上次跟董建宏次長有去那邊選手村改成這一個社宅我跟委員報告\n就是那邊的那個嬰兒出生率確實比較高我沒有實際的數據但是我在那邊看很多就是年輕人就是大量進駐而且我聽那邊的那個住戶說大概都生兩胎生兩個小朋友因為社會住宅那個租金上面就比較便宜嘛是所以我意思是說很可惜今天我看沒有內政部的來啦今天是主要就是衛福部跟勞動部好\n那我再請教一下 我請勞動部好了勞動部的次長那次長請回好 感謝委員 謝謝次長 那其實除了這個讓我們的父母這個在沒有房租的或是房貸壓力之下有可能會比較願意生小孩那另外一個就是說能夠在生完小孩之後或是生完小孩之前他能夠他的工作不要去受到影響或是說這個\n這個比如送完小孩之後回到這個工作崗位上面能夠順利的能夠來接軌我覺得這個也是一個相當重要的那我先請教一下就是說包含本席在內有許多的委員有提到這個性別平等工作法的第15條的修正案就是說我們把這一個賠產產價我們就多了一個叫做這一個生產準備價然後那當然天數也會把它加長那就是說把這一個產情教育把它\n把它加進去 加進去對 那讓這一個這個爸爸或媽媽他們能夠在這一個準備生產的時候有更多的這一個生產的一些知識或教育在那請問一下次長你們對於這個修法的內容看法怎麼樣\n這個部分確實是外界很關注的議題那我們覺得這個就像委員剛剛講的如果能夠這樣做確實能夠幫助讓它能夠銜接起來讓這個新手爸媽的育兒那現在才七天嘛那我看很多的委員的提案大概就是會增加天數啦那一樣也是有心的啦那有沒有辦法就是說我們往這個方向來做修法\n如果是涉及有薪的話老實說就涉及到裁員的問題那有薪才有這個誘因沒有薪就沒有誘因了\n這個如果是老實說因為我們台灣98%左右都是中小企業那雇主這邊的負擔會加重那雇主他們是不是他們的財務問題也要考量那如果是由政府來支出那政府目前委員都知道我們現在政府今年因為大院這個審查預算還有財劃法的關係這個部分政府可預期然後這個裁員可能會不是那麼\n那當然這有部分啦一個是財化法的關係那預算可能會少然後另外一個就是說預算有減少但是我是認為啦就是說既然少子化已經是一個國安的一個問題了那如何用這個政府有限的資源裡面讓這個父母能夠願意去生小孩那是最重要的不然我們今天談了這麼多題目如果最後都是歸結到說政府的經費不夠那如果這樣子的話那其實什麼問題都不用談就回到原點了嘛那出生率就越來越往下降了啦\n這是一個我是希望說你們能夠就很多的立委所提案的這部分這個生產準備價來做個考量那當然是有心的那另外一個就是說韓信的育嬰留職停薪去年下半年有試辦了那現在試辦的成效怎麼樣\n已經結束了嘛對不對結束了我們已經透過找示範單位來諮詢作者還有問卷調查還有去拜訪民間托育團體我們已經把資料大概收整到接近關於結束就是說彈性現在本來是一個月那現在就是說五天到七天那我說接下來我不曉得示範你覺得示範的情況是怎麼樣那接下來有沒有機會就是說我們這個彈性的運營價可以改成日\n各位所以我們先前我有講我們正在內部通盤檢討希望能夠朝向更彈性的方向來規劃更彈性就是日了嘛因為現在是月啊那就是日啊是不是\n這個都在我們的考量評估中因為這也是一個方式因為就是說我可以請我沒有想要小時那個小時就我覺得可能會比較複雜一點點就是說日那至少日我可以讓很多家長他可以說今天臨時有什麼事情了小孩子生病或什麼之類的我可以很彈性的說我都了解好不好因為這個東西既然有事辦了要有一個結果出來\n那預計哪時候會有一個結果出來那是不是可以更彈性往日月方面做調整大概哪時候會有一個結果出來我們也希望盡快但是要配合剛講的暈流停之路要修法整體來作業這樣子我們希望盡快好那抱歉主席我再用一點時間有沒有教育部\n國教署今天有副署長來我來問一下就是說現在這個幼保畢業生大概只有15%願意進入職場所以說這個也造成了另外一個問題就是說我們要降低師生比到1比12這兩個是環環相扣的你們怎麼去增加就是說這個幼保的畢業生他願意來進入這個幼保的這個領域\n好那跟委員報告就是他問題在哪裡就是說比如說他是薪資的問題那還是說這個他們沒有辦法有這個9任獎金的問題好跟委員先報告一下如果是在職前的部分培育那除了目前其實不管是教保員的培育應該是夠的那但是教師可能是比較需要再做協助那我們國教署跟部裡面的私知師有合作所以呢為了要將生死比\n那有協助我們多培育老師跟教保員的部分就是說他有教保的有專業但是他不願意當教保員那進到職場的部分我們目前在做因為我們在擴大公共化的時候其實也會增加我們這些公部門禁用教保服務人員那另外來講我們要合作準公共\n那總公共的部分我們的合作要件裡頭也把那個基本工資的部分如果是新三年以下在今年也幫他們調升到四萬兩千多三萬四千兩百多那如果說他今天是六年以上也大概到四萬多所以我們會變成從公共跟總公共的部分來調整薪資\n讓更多的夥伴願意進來那再來是調降生思比的部分會讓他們進到職場的工作負擔為稍微有一些緩解所以目前在公立公共化幼兒園到目前為止也有86%的幼兒園已經達到1比12\n那今年8月也希望所有公共化的幼兒園可以達成那總公共呢從去年開始加入之後今年也會開始進入調降升師比也會希望在115年達成所以透過新資的引導以及職場裡頭那對於他服務學生的人數的降低那希望對他們的工作負擔可以有所緩解以上我再問最後一個問題現在這個准公幼的教保人員跟這個非立幼兒園的教保人員薪資有一樣嗎\n呃準工跟呃非是不太一樣吼那因為非營利幼兒園幾乎也是等於政府自己呃在經營的概念吼那雖然他是由民間團體共同來合作那他不會有盈餘全部都是以成本計價\n那總工的部分因為它是屬於私人的它財務部分並不是我們在做相關的處理那我們唯一的是訂定了這些要件那它不能低於這些要件可以訂得更高會不會有同工不同仇的這一個現象因為它畢竟是在私人經營我們訂的是要跟我們合作的時候你的薪資一定要達到多少以上但是除了我們訂的以上之外我們希望這些業者 僱主\n能夠自己也可以再調高所以透過這個機制來託助會不會老師就跑掉了到目前看起來是還好因為有在關注那個流動力的問題只是他們如果說找不到新的這些夥伴們剛有跟委員報告是獅子醫教師也共同協助我們在座人員的培育好那以上先這樣問問這樣子就好好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.755 --> 00:06.942\n謝謝主席請這個理事長\n\n00:15.217 --> 00:39.202\n市長好委員好今天這個題目很大那其實也討論了很久但是我們的出生率好像也不見提高雖然政府也很努力做了很多的政策那就你的部分來講政府的這個不管是這個公幼公托或是說給予這個父母親的一些津貼上面的補助那可是農年的這個生育率還是往下降那就你的部分來講\n\n00:40.322 --> 00:59.402\n你覺得有什麼是急迫性的可以做的可以現在做處理的讓這個出生率可以提高先馬上齁馬上我覺得今天老實說聽下來我覺得林淑芬林委員她所提那個就有關於那個社會住宅社會住宅社會住宅然後\n\n01:00.763 --> 01:26.643\n我老實說當然這不是我全責但是我如果說以現在目前最有感的話可能確實就是說社會住宅那邊然後在這一個親子就是我們就是訴求一個叫做親子住宅然後在那裡面的托育完全是一條龍的服務我跟你們報告以前我在德國讀書德國讀書裡面其實事實上確實是有家庭宿舍就是給年輕的這一個就是大學生\n\n01:27.964 --> 01:55.842\n沒問題啊你結婚除了單身之外你也有家庭宿舍然後學校裡面我們那叫kita就是kindergarten就在學校附近那這個其實我覺得我認為這是一個最好的一個設計如果當然我這樣可能會就是總是我們有雖然說這不是這是算內政部的啦沒關係那你也可以以一個學者的身份來說明一下那我看到就是說其實政府有蠻多政策那不過你也點到就是說其實\n\n01:58.344 --> 02:27.204\n住的一個壓力房租的一個壓力買房的一個壓力的確是讓很多的這些父母他們在結婚之後他們覺得說那我如果要生小孩那可是我自己要要要付房租有這麼多的一些房貸的壓力的話那有可能生小孩的這一個念頭就會打消了那當然是一個一個很重要的因素就是說讓我們的父母他願意生小孩而且呢他也沒有這一個房租房貸的壓力的情況之下或許\n\n02:28.785 --> 02:44.216\n這個生小孩的這個慾望或是意念就會提高了沒錯沒錯我跟您簡單報告一下就我所知在那個大林在那個林口林口那個國寨我上次跟董建宏次長有去那邊選手村改成這一個社宅我跟委員報告\n\n02:45.475 --> 03:12.552\n就是那邊的那個嬰兒出生率確實比較高我沒有實際的數據但是我在那邊看很多就是年輕人就是大量進駐而且我聽那邊的那個住戶說大概都生兩胎生兩個小朋友因為社會住宅那個租金上面就比較便宜嘛是所以我意思是說很可惜今天我看沒有內政部的來啦今天是主要就是衛福部跟勞動部好\n\n03:13.673 --> 03:38.945\n那我再請教一下我請勞動部好了勞動部的次長那次長請回好感謝委員謝謝次長那其實除了這個讓我們的父母這個在沒有房租的或是房貸壓力之下有可能會比較願意生小孩那另外一個就是說能夠在生完小孩之後或是生完小孩之前他能夠他的工作不要去受到影響或是說這個\n\n03:41.000 --> 04:08.903\n這個比如送完小孩之後回到這個工作崗位上面能夠順利的能夠來接軌我覺得這個也是一個相當重要的那我先請教一下就是說包含本席在內有許多的委員有提到這個性別平等工作法的第15條的修正案就是說我們把這一個賠產產價我們就多了一個叫做這一個生產準備價然後那當然天數也會把它加長那就是說把這一個產情教育把它\n\n04:09.443 --> 04:24.559\n把它加進去加進去對那讓這一個這個爸爸或媽媽他們能夠在這一個準備生產的時候有更多的這一個生產的一些知識或教育在那請問一下次長你們對於這個修法的內容看法怎麼樣\n\n04:26.694 --> 04:49.591\n這個部分確實是外界很關注的議題那我們覺得這個就像委員剛剛講的如果能夠這樣做確實能夠幫助讓它能夠銜接起來讓這個新手爸媽的育兒那現在才七天嘛那我看很多的委員的提案大概就是會增加天數啦那一樣也是有心的啦那有沒有辦法就是說我們往這個方向來做修法\n\n04:50.694 --> 04:57.023\n如果是涉及有薪的話老實說就涉及到裁員的問題那有薪才有這個誘因沒有薪就沒有誘因了\n\n05:01.669 --> 05:26.221\n這個如果是老實說因為我們台灣98%左右都是中小企業那雇主這邊的負擔會加重那雇主他們是不是他們的財務問題也要考量那如果是由政府來支出那政府目前委員都知道我們現在政府今年因為大院這個審查預算還有財劃法的關係這個部分政府可預期然後這個裁員可能會不是那麼\n\n05:26.681 --> 05:55.238\n那當然這有部分啦一個是財化法的關係那預算可能會少然後另外一個就是說預算有減少但是我是認為啦就是說既然少子化已經是一個國安的一個問題了那如何用這個政府有限的資源裡面讓這個父母能夠願意去生小孩那是最重要的不然我們今天談了這麼多題目如果最後都是歸結到說政府的經費不夠那如果這樣子的話那其實什麼問題都不用談就回到原點了嘛那出生率就越來越往下降了啦\n\n05:55.999 --> 06:12.718\n這是一個我是希望說你們能夠就很多的立委所提案的這部分這個生產準備價來做個考量那當然是有心的那另外一個就是說韓信的育嬰留職停薪去年下半年有試辦了那現在試辦的成效怎麼樣\n\n06:13.559 --> 06:42.100\n已經結束了嘛對不對結束了我們已經透過找示範單位來諮詢作者還有問卷調查還有去拜訪民間托育團體我們已經把資料大概收整到接近關於結束就是說彈性現在本來是一個月那現在就是說五天到七天那我說接下來我不曉得示範你覺得示範的情況是怎麼樣那接下來有沒有機會就是說我們這個彈性的運營價可以改成日\n\n06:43.527 --> 06:53.872\n各位所以我們先前我有講我們正在內部通盤檢討希望能夠朝向更彈性的方向來規劃更彈性就是日了嘛因為現在是月啊那就是日啊是不是\n\n06:54.900 --> 07:17.981\n這個都在我們的考量評估中因為這也是一個方式因為就是說我可以請我沒有想要小時那個小時就我覺得可能會比較複雜一點點就是說日那至少日我可以讓很多家長他可以說今天臨時有什麼事情了小孩子生病或什麼之類的我可以很彈性的說我都了解好不好因為這個東西既然有事辦了要有一個結果出來\n\n07:18.621 --> 07:36.241\n那預計哪時候會有一個結果出來那是不是可以更彈性往日月方面做調整大概哪時候會有一個結果出來我們也希望盡快但是要配合剛講的暈流停之路要修法整體來作業這樣子我們希望盡快好那抱歉主席我再用一點時間有沒有教育部\n\n07:37.566 --> 08:01.651\n國教署今天有副署長來我來問一下就是說現在這個幼保畢業生大概只有15%願意進入職場所以說這個也造成了另外一個問題就是說我們要降低師生比到1比12這兩個是環環相扣的你們怎麼去增加就是說這個幼保的畢業生他願意來進入這個幼保的這個領域\n\n08:05.060 --> 08:33.773\n好那跟委員報告就是他問題在哪裡就是說比如說他是薪資的問題那還是說這個他們沒有辦法有這個9任獎金的問題好跟委員先報告一下如果是在職前的部分培育那除了目前其實不管是教保員的培育應該是夠的那但是教師可能是比較需要再做協助那我們國教署跟部裡面的私知師有合作所以呢為了要將生死比\n\n08:34.173 --> 08:53.889\n那有協助我們多培育老師跟教保員的部分就是說他有教保的有專業但是他不願意當教保員那進到職場的部分我們目前在做因為我們在擴大公共化的時候其實也會增加我們這些公部門禁用教保服務人員那另外來講我們要合作準公共\n\n08:54.329 --> 09:15.199\n那總公共的部分我們的合作要件裡頭也把那個基本工資的部分如果是新三年以下在今年也幫他們調升到四萬兩千多三萬四千兩百多那如果說他今天是六年以上也大概到四萬多所以我們會變成從公共跟總公共的部分來調整薪資\n\n09:17.280 --> 09:29.071\n讓更多的夥伴願意進來那再來是調降生思比的部分會讓他們進到職場的工作負擔為稍微有一些緩解所以目前在公立公共化幼兒園到目前為止也有86%的幼兒園已經達到1比12\n\n09:33.215 --> 10:01.752\n那今年8月也希望所有公共化的幼兒園可以達成那總公共呢從去年開始加入之後今年也會開始進入調降升師比也會希望在115年達成所以透過新資的引導以及職場裡頭那對於他服務學生的人數的降低那希望對他們的工作負擔可以有所緩解以上我再問最後一個問題現在這個准公幼的教保人員跟這個非立幼兒園的教保人員薪資有一樣嗎\n\n10:03.486 --> 10:18.711\n呃準工跟呃非是不太一樣吼那因為非營利幼兒園幾乎也是等於政府自己呃在經營的概念吼那雖然他是由民間團體共同來合作那他不會有盈餘全部都是以成本計價\n\n10:19.771 --> 10:46.048\n那總工的部分因為它是屬於私人的它財務部分並不是我們在做相關的處理那我們唯一的是訂定了這些要件那它不能低於這些要件可以訂得更高會不會有同工不同仇的這一個現象因為它畢竟是在私人經營我們訂的是要跟我們合作的時候你的薪資一定要達到多少以上但是除了我們訂的以上之外我們希望這些業者僱主\n\n10:46.488 --> 11:08.232\n能夠自己也可以再調高所以透過這個機制來託助會不會老師就跑掉了到目前看起來是還好因為有在關注那個流動力的問題只是他們如果說找不到新的這些夥伴們剛有跟委員報告是獅子醫教師也共同協助我們在座人員的培育好那以上先這樣問問這樣子就好好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.755,"end":6.942,"text":"謝謝主席請這個理事長"},{"start":15.217,"end":39.202,"text":"市長好委員好今天這個題目很大那其實也討論了很久但是我們的出生率好像也不見提高雖然政府也很努力做了很多的政策那就你的部分來講政府的這個不管是這個公幼公托或是說給予這個父母親的一些津貼上面的補助那可是農年的這個生育率還是往下降那就你的部分來講"},{"start":40.322,"end":59.402,"text":"你覺得有什麼是急迫性的可以做的可以現在做處理的讓這個出生率可以提高先馬上齁馬上我覺得今天老實說聽下來我覺得林淑芬林委員她所提那個就有關於那個社會住宅社會住宅社會住宅然後"},{"start":60.763,"end":86.643,"text":"我老實說當然這不是我全責但是我如果說以現在目前最有感的話可能確實就是說社會住宅那邊然後在這一個親子就是我們就是訴求一個叫做親子住宅然後在那裡面的托育完全是一條龍的服務我跟你們報告以前我在德國讀書德國讀書裡面其實事實上確實是有家庭宿舍就是給年輕的這一個就是大學生"},{"start":87.964,"end":115.842,"text":"沒問題啊你結婚除了單身之外你也有家庭宿舍然後學校裡面我們那叫kita就是kindergarten就在學校附近那這個其實我覺得我認為這是一個最好的一個設計如果當然我這樣可能會就是總是我們有雖然說這不是這是算內政部的啦沒關係那你也可以以一個學者的身份來說明一下那我看到就是說其實政府有蠻多政策那不過你也點到就是說其實"},{"start":118.344,"end":147.204,"text":"住的一個壓力房租的一個壓力買房的一個壓力的確是讓很多的這些父母他們在結婚之後他們覺得說那我如果要生小孩那可是我自己要要要付房租有這麼多的一些房貸的壓力的話那有可能生小孩的這一個念頭就會打消了那當然是一個一個很重要的因素就是說讓我們的父母他願意生小孩而且呢他也沒有這一個房租房貸的壓力的情況之下或許"},{"start":148.785,"end":164.216,"text":"這個生小孩的這個慾望或是意念就會提高了沒錯沒錯我跟您簡單報告一下就我所知在那個大林在那個林口林口那個國寨我上次跟董建宏次長有去那邊選手村改成這一個社宅我跟委員報告"},{"start":165.475,"end":192.552,"text":"就是那邊的那個嬰兒出生率確實比較高我沒有實際的數據但是我在那邊看很多就是年輕人就是大量進駐而且我聽那邊的那個住戶說大概都生兩胎生兩個小朋友因為社會住宅那個租金上面就比較便宜嘛是所以我意思是說很可惜今天我看沒有內政部的來啦今天是主要就是衛福部跟勞動部好"},{"start":193.673,"end":218.945,"text":"那我再請教一下 我請勞動部好了勞動部的次長那次長請回好 感謝委員 謝謝次長 那其實除了這個讓我們的父母這個在沒有房租的或是房貸壓力之下有可能會比較願意生小孩那另外一個就是說能夠在生完小孩之後或是生完小孩之前他能夠他的工作不要去受到影響或是說這個"},{"start":221,"end":248.903,"text":"這個比如送完小孩之後回到這個工作崗位上面能夠順利的能夠來接軌我覺得這個也是一個相當重要的那我先請教一下就是說包含本席在內有許多的委員有提到這個性別平等工作法的第15條的修正案就是說我們把這一個賠產產價我們就多了一個叫做這一個生產準備價然後那當然天數也會把它加長那就是說把這一個產情教育把它"},{"start":249.443,"end":264.559,"text":"把它加進去 加進去對 那讓這一個這個爸爸或媽媽他們能夠在這一個準備生產的時候有更多的這一個生產的一些知識或教育在那請問一下次長你們對於這個修法的內容看法怎麼樣"},{"start":266.694,"end":289.591,"text":"這個部分確實是外界很關注的議題那我們覺得這個就像委員剛剛講的如果能夠這樣做確實能夠幫助讓它能夠銜接起來讓這個新手爸媽的育兒那現在才七天嘛那我看很多的委員的提案大概就是會增加天數啦那一樣也是有心的啦那有沒有辦法就是說我們往這個方向來做修法"},{"start":290.694,"end":297.023,"text":"如果是涉及有薪的話老實說就涉及到裁員的問題那有薪才有這個誘因沒有薪就沒有誘因了"},{"start":301.669,"end":326.221,"text":"這個如果是老實說因為我們台灣98%左右都是中小企業那雇主這邊的負擔會加重那雇主他們是不是他們的財務問題也要考量那如果是由政府來支出那政府目前委員都知道我們現在政府今年因為大院這個審查預算還有財劃法的關係這個部分政府可預期然後這個裁員可能會不是那麼"},{"start":326.681,"end":355.238,"text":"那當然這有部分啦一個是財化法的關係那預算可能會少然後另外一個就是說預算有減少但是我是認為啦就是說既然少子化已經是一個國安的一個問題了那如何用這個政府有限的資源裡面讓這個父母能夠願意去生小孩那是最重要的不然我們今天談了這麼多題目如果最後都是歸結到說政府的經費不夠那如果這樣子的話那其實什麼問題都不用談就回到原點了嘛那出生率就越來越往下降了啦"},{"start":355.999,"end":372.718,"text":"這是一個我是希望說你們能夠就很多的立委所提案的這部分這個生產準備價來做個考量那當然是有心的那另外一個就是說韓信的育嬰留職停薪去年下半年有試辦了那現在試辦的成效怎麼樣"},{"start":373.559,"end":402.1,"text":"已經結束了嘛對不對結束了我們已經透過找示範單位來諮詢作者還有問卷調查還有去拜訪民間托育團體我們已經把資料大概收整到接近關於結束就是說彈性現在本來是一個月那現在就是說五天到七天那我說接下來我不曉得示範你覺得示範的情況是怎麼樣那接下來有沒有機會就是說我們這個彈性的運營價可以改成日"},{"start":403.527,"end":413.872,"text":"各位所以我們先前我有講我們正在內部通盤檢討希望能夠朝向更彈性的方向來規劃更彈性就是日了嘛因為現在是月啊那就是日啊是不是"},{"start":414.9,"end":437.981,"text":"這個都在我們的考量評估中因為這也是一個方式因為就是說我可以請我沒有想要小時那個小時就我覺得可能會比較複雜一點點就是說日那至少日我可以讓很多家長他可以說今天臨時有什麼事情了小孩子生病或什麼之類的我可以很彈性的說我都了解好不好因為這個東西既然有事辦了要有一個結果出來"},{"start":438.621,"end":456.241,"text":"那預計哪時候會有一個結果出來那是不是可以更彈性往日月方面做調整大概哪時候會有一個結果出來我們也希望盡快但是要配合剛講的暈流停之路要修法整體來作業這樣子我們希望盡快好那抱歉主席我再用一點時間有沒有教育部"},{"start":457.566,"end":481.651,"text":"國教署今天有副署長來我來問一下就是說現在這個幼保畢業生大概只有15%願意進入職場所以說這個也造成了另外一個問題就是說我們要降低師生比到1比12這兩個是環環相扣的你們怎麼去增加就是說這個幼保的畢業生他願意來進入這個幼保的這個領域"},{"start":485.06,"end":513.773,"text":"好那跟委員報告就是他問題在哪裡就是說比如說他是薪資的問題那還是說這個他們沒有辦法有這個9任獎金的問題好跟委員先報告一下如果是在職前的部分培育那除了目前其實不管是教保員的培育應該是夠的那但是教師可能是比較需要再做協助那我們國教署跟部裡面的私知師有合作所以呢為了要將生死比"},{"start":514.173,"end":533.889,"text":"那有協助我們多培育老師跟教保員的部分就是說他有教保的有專業但是他不願意當教保員那進到職場的部分我們目前在做因為我們在擴大公共化的時候其實也會增加我們這些公部門禁用教保服務人員那另外來講我們要合作準公共"},{"start":534.329,"end":555.199,"text":"那總公共的部分我們的合作要件裡頭也把那個基本工資的部分如果是新三年以下在今年也幫他們調升到四萬兩千多三萬四千兩百多那如果說他今天是六年以上也大概到四萬多所以我們會變成從公共跟總公共的部分來調整薪資"},{"start":557.28,"end":569.071,"text":"讓更多的夥伴願意進來那再來是調降生思比的部分會讓他們進到職場的工作負擔為稍微有一些緩解所以目前在公立公共化幼兒園到目前為止也有86%的幼兒園已經達到1比12"},{"start":573.215,"end":601.752,"text":"那今年8月也希望所有公共化的幼兒園可以達成那總公共呢從去年開始加入之後今年也會開始進入調降升師比也會希望在115年達成所以透過新資的引導以及職場裡頭那對於他服務學生的人數的降低那希望對他們的工作負擔可以有所緩解以上我再問最後一個問題現在這個准公幼的教保人員跟這個非立幼兒園的教保人員薪資有一樣嗎"},{"start":603.486,"end":618.711,"text":"呃準工跟呃非是不太一樣吼那因為非營利幼兒園幾乎也是等於政府自己呃在經營的概念吼那雖然他是由民間團體共同來合作那他不會有盈餘全部都是以成本計價"},{"start":619.771,"end":646.048,"text":"那總工的部分因為它是屬於私人的它財務部分並不是我們在做相關的處理那我們唯一的是訂定了這些要件那它不能低於這些要件可以訂得更高會不會有同工不同仇的這一個現象因為它畢竟是在私人經營我們訂的是要跟我們合作的時候你的薪資一定要達到多少以上但是除了我們訂的以上之外我們希望這些業者 僱主"},{"start":646.488,"end":668.232,"text":"能夠自己也可以再調高所以透過這個機制來託助會不會老師就跑掉了到目前看起來是還好因為有在關注那個流動力的問題只是他們如果說找不到新的這些夥伴們剛有跟委員報告是獅子醫教師也共同協助我們在座人員的培育好那以上先這樣問問這樣子就好好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1721,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（13時22分）謝謝主席。請呂次長。"],["主席：請呂次長。"],["李委員坤城：次長好。"],["呂次長建德：委員好。"],["李委員坤城：今天這個題目很大，其實也討論了很久，但是我們的出生率好像也不見提高。雖然政府也很努力、做了很多政策，不管是在公幼、公托上或給予父母親津貼上的補助，可是龍年的生育率還是往下降！就你的部分來講，你覺得有什麼是有急迫性、可以做的，可以現在做處理、讓出生率可以提高？"],["呂次長建德：現在、馬上的話，老實說，今天聽下來，我覺得林淑芬委員所提的社會住宅，我老實說啦！當然這不是我的權責……"],["李委員坤城：是，沒關係。"],["呂次長建德：現在最有感的，可能確實是社會住宅打五折。然後我們訴求一點，叫做親子住宅，讓在那裡面的托育完全採一條龍服務。我跟委員報告，我以前在德國讀書，德國都市裡確實有家庭宿舍，就是給年輕的大學生。沒問題啊！除了單身之外，結婚的學生也有家庭宿舍。然後學校裡面有KITA，就是kindergarten，就在學校附近，我認為其實這是一個最好的設計。當然我這樣講，董次長可能會……"],["李委員坤城：沒關係，雖然這算內政部的業務，但你也能以一個學者的身分說明一下。","我看到政府其實有滿多政策，不過你也點到，其實住的壓力、房租的壓力、買房的壓力，的確讓很多人在結婚之後覺得如果要生小孩，自己卻有付房租、房貸等這麼多壓力的話，有可能生小孩的念頭就會打消了。"],["呂次長建德：沒錯。"],["李委員坤城：這當然是很重要的因素，如果父母願意生小孩，而且是在沒有房租、房貸壓力的情況之下，或許生小孩的慾望或意念就會提高了啦！"],["呂次長建德：對、沒錯。委員，我跟您簡單報告一下，據我所知，在林口國宅，我上次有跟董建宏次長去那邊……"],["李委員坤城：那邊是將選手村改成社宅！"],["呂次長建德：對、沒錯。我跟委員報告，那邊嬰兒出生率確實比較高。我沒有實際的數據，但在年輕人大量進駐後，我聽那邊的住戶說，大概都生兩胎、生兩個小朋友。"],["李委員坤城：好，那就是因為社會住宅租金上比較便宜嘛！"],["呂次長建德：對，所以我的意思是純粹就……"],["李委員坤城：但很可惜，今天沒有內政部代表來，主要就是你們衛福部跟勞動部。","我再請教一下勞動部次長。"],["呂次長建德：感謝委員。"],["李委員坤城：次長請回。","李次長，其實除了父母在沒有房租或房貸壓力之下有可能比較願意生小孩，另外一點就是在生完小孩之後或是生完小孩之前，他的工作能夠不要受到影響，或是生完小孩之後、回到工作崗位上能夠順利接軌，我覺得這也是相當重要的。"],["李次長健鴻：是。"],["李委員坤城：我先請教一下：包含本席在內，很多委員都提到性別平等工作法第十五條的修正案，就是除了陪產假、產假之外，又多了一種生產準備假。當然天數也會加長，就是要把產前教育加進去，讓爸爸或媽媽能夠在準備生產的時候有更多生產的知識或教育在。請問一下次長，你們對於這個修法內容看法怎麼樣？"],["李次長健鴻：這個部分確實是外界很關注的議題。就像委員剛剛講的，如果能夠這樣做，確實能夠幫助他們銜接起來，讓新手爸媽的育兒……"],["李委員坤城：現在才7天嘛！"],["李次長健鴻：是。"],["李委員坤城：我看了很多委員的提案，大概就是會增加天數，也一樣是有薪的，有沒有辦法往這個方向修法？"],["李次長健鴻：有薪的話，老實說就涉及財源問題。"],["李委員坤城：當然，但有薪才有誘因啊！沒有薪就沒有誘因了啊！"],["李次長健鴻：老實說，因為臺灣98%左右的雇主都是中小企業，這樣雇主的負擔會加重，所以是不是他們的財務問題也要考量？如果是由政府來支出，那政府目前……委員都知道，政府今年因為大院審查預算還有財劃法的關係，可預期這部分財源可能不是那麼理想。"],["李委員坤城：當然這是一部分，一是基於財劃法的關係，預算可能會少；另外一個原因就是預算減少。但是我認為既然少子化已經是一個國安問題了，那如何從政府有限的資源裡面讓父母願意生小孩？這是最重要的！不然我們今天談了那麼多題目，如果最後都歸結到政府的經費不夠，那其實什麼問題都不用談，就回到原點了，出生率就會愈來愈往下降了，這是一個。我是希望你們能夠就很多立委提案的生產準備假做考量，而且當然是有薪的。","另外一點是彈性育嬰留職停薪去年下半年試辦了，那現在試辦的成效怎麼樣？結束了對不對？"],["李次長健鴻：結束了，我們已經透過找試辦單位來諮詢座談、問卷調查，還有拜訪民間托育團體，把資料大概蒐整到接近結束。"],["李委員坤城：彈性期間本來是1個月，現在則是說5天到7天。接下來呢？不曉得你覺得試辦的情況怎麼樣？接下來有沒有機會將彈性育嬰假的單位改成日？"],["李次長健鴻：跟委員說明，我先前有講，我們正在做內部通盤檢討，希望能夠朝向更彈性的方向來規劃。"],["李委員坤城：更彈性就是算日了！因為現在就是算月，那就是考量日了，是不是？"],["李次長健鴻：這都在我們的考量評估中。"],["李委員坤城：這也是一個方式！因為我們可以請……我沒有想用小時，因為我覺得那可能比較複雜一點點，所以就談日。如果改為日，至少很多家長在小孩子臨時有什麼事情發生時，例如生病之類的，可以很彈性地運用啦！"],["李次長健鴻：是，沒有錯，這些我們都了解。"],["李委員坤城：好不好？這個東西既然試辦了，就要有結果出來。預計哪時候會有結果？是不是可以更彈性、往日這方面作調整？大概哪時候會有結果出來？"],["李次長健鴻：我們也希望儘快，但是這要配合剛剛講的，包括育嬰留停制度要修法等整體作業，我們希望儘快。"],["李委員坤城：好。","抱歉，主席，我再用一點時間。有沒有教育部國教署官員？今天有副署長來？現在幼保畢業生大概只有15%願意進入職場，所以也造成另一個問題受影響，就是要降低生師比到1比12。這兩個問題是環環相扣的，你們怎麼增加幼保畢業生、使他願意進入幼保領域？"],["許副署長麗娟：跟委員報告……"],["李委員坤城：就是問題在哪裡？比如說是薪資問題，還是他們沒辦法有久任獎金的問題？"],["許副署長麗娟：先跟委員報告一下，如果是在職前培育部分，目前教保員的培育應該是夠的，對教師可能比較需要再作協助。我們國教署跟部裡面的師資司合作，為了降生師比，師資司有協助我們處理多培育老師跟教保員的部分。"],["李委員坤城：不，他有教保的專業，但是不願意當教保員啊，問題在哪裡？"],["許副署長麗娟：進到職場的部分，我們目前在做，因為在擴大公共化的時候其實也會增加公部門進用教保服務人員。另外，我們有合作準公共幼兒園。在準公共的合作要件裡頭，基本工資部分，如果是3年以下，今年也幫他們調升到三萬四千兩百多元，如果是6年以上，大概也到四萬多元，所以變成從公共跟準公共部分調整薪資，讓更多夥伴願意進來。","再來是調降生師比的部分，會讓他們進到職場的工作負擔稍微有些緩解，所以公共化幼兒園到目前為止已經有86%達到1比12，今年8月希望所有公共化幼兒園都可以達成。準公共幼兒園從去年加入之後，今年也會開始調降生師比，希望在115年達成。所以，透過薪資的引導以及職場裡頭將他們服務的學生人數降低，希望他們的工作負擔可以有所緩解。以上。"],["李委員坤城：我再問最後一個問題：現在準公幼的教保人員跟非營利幼兒園的教保人員薪資一樣嗎？"],["許副署長麗娟：準公幼跟非營利幼兒園不太一樣，因為非營利幼兒園幾乎也等於政府自己經營的概念。雖然它是由民間團體共同合作，但不會有盈餘，而是全部以成本計價。準公幼因為屬於私人，財務部分並不是我們在做相關處理，我們唯一做的是訂定這些要件，而它不能低於這些要件，但可以訂得更高。"],["李委員坤城：這樣會不會有同工不同酬的現象？"],["許副署長麗娟：它畢竟是私人經營，我們訂的條件是在跟我們合作的時候，薪資一定要達到多少以上。但是除了條件達到我們所定以上之外，我們也希望這些業者、雇主能夠自己再調高，透過這個機制來做……"],["李委員坤城：這樣準公托的老師會不會就跑掉了？"],["許副署長麗娟：目前看起來是還好，我們有關注流動率的問題。只是如果他們找不到新的夥伴，如我剛剛跟委員報告的，師資司有共同協助我們做人員的培育。以上。"],["李委員坤城：好，以上，先問這樣就好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝李委員、謝謝次長。","接續請麥玉珍委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":120,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-4","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","盧縣一","黃秀芳","劉建國","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","涂權吉","林淑芬","王正旭","羅廷瑋","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","張雅琳","楊曜","李坤城","麥玉珍","陳瑩","鄭正鈐","黃捷","林德福","陳培瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1143301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部、勞動部、國家發展委員會、教育部、法務部針對「少子女化衝擊，如何營造\n友善托育環境」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143301_00001"}}}