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141.193, \"text\": \"這個電價沒有調轉的關係可以虧損達到這個500億元左右但是他自己開源節流他可以省了150億所以如果有波普的話應該可以朝向部長電價這樣的方向來走這個我們可以來試圖來再盤點一下再看看\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"價\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 123.665, \"end\": 123.946, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 123.946, \"end\": 124.406, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"轉\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 124.406, \"end\": 124.966, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"係\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 124.966, \"end\": 125.086, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 125.086, \"end\": 125.746, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"虧\"}, {\"word\": \"損\"}, {\"word\": \"達\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 125.746, \"end\": 127.287, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"元\", \"start\": 127.287, \"end\": 127.527, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"左\", \"start\": 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{\"word\": \"向\", \"start\": 135.811, \"end\": 136.151, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 136.151, \"end\": 136.931, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"價\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 136.931, \"end\": 137.071, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 137.071, \"end\": 137.251, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"向\", \"start\": 137.251, \"end\": 137.851, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"走\", \"start\": 137.851, \"end\": 138.012, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 138.012, \"end\": 138.292, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 138.292, \"end\": 138.432, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 138.432, \"end\": 139.852, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"試\"}, {\"word\": \"圖\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 139.852, \"end\": 140.393, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"盤\"}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 140.393, \"end\": 140.513, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 140.513, \"end\": 140.753, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 140.753, \"end\": 140.973, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 140.973, \"end\": 141.173, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 141.173, \"end\": 141.193, \"score\": 0.998}]}, {\"start\": 143.309, \"end\": 145.153, \"text\": \"過去這段時間二國戰爭導致這個油料上漲有6000億的虧損主要的虧損在這邊嘛那現在政府撥補多少進來的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 143.309, \"end\": 143.43, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"段\", \"start\": 143.43, \"end\": 143.51, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 143.51, \"end\": 143.71, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"戰\"}, {\"word\": \"爭\"}, {\"word\": \"導\"}, {\"word\": \"致\", \"start\": 143.71, \"end\": 143.79, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"油\", \"start\": 143.79, \"end\": 143.83, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 143.83, \"end\": 143.91, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 143.91, \"end\": 143.93, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"漲\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 143.93, \"end\": 144.011, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 144.011, \"end\": 144.131, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"虧\"}, {\"word\": \"損\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 144.131, \"end\": 144.271, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 144.271, \"end\": 144.291, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 144.291, \"end\": 144.311, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"虧\"}, {\"word\": \"損\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 144.311, \"end\": 144.391, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 144.391, \"end\": 144.572, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 144.572, \"end\": 144.592, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 144.592, \"end\": 144.752, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 144.752, \"end\": 144.852, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 144.852, \"end\": 144.872, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"撥\"}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 144.872, \"end\": 144.912, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 144.912, \"end\": 145.133, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 145.133, \"end\": 145.153, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 154.103, \"end\": 166.752, \"text\": \"500億所以其實還有5500的一個缺口那如果接下來如果未來有2000億再撥補進來的話那適度的一些撥補透過這幾年經濟成長不錯的狀況有盈餘的狀況來撥補我認為這個會比發現金是更好的方式發現金因為這個在解決的是讓民生讓物價不要波動這個對於整個國家的經濟體制這會對於整個民生幫助更大市長應該同意這樣的看法吧\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 154.103, \"end\": 155.004, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 155.004, \"end\": 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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,526 --> 00:00:04,068\n好謝謝趙薇請賴市長賴市長市長好委員好那個滇交誠意委員會現在確定是不調漲嗎\n\n2\n00:00:16,058 --> 00:00:33,386\n那我之前其實也提出來了我也認為這個兩條路啦一個是政府的撥補一個是調漲電價但是調漲電價對於整個台灣的未來影響太重大了所以我認為其實應該走的是用政府撥補的方式是一個比較好的方式但是\n\n3\n00:00:34,326 --> 00:00:47,074\n整個國會其實並沒有支持啦所以我個人看法應該等到新民意出來之後讓民意來做最後決定也就是說七八月新的民意出來之後那如果新的民意認為還是應該要\n\n4\n00:00:50,535 --> 00:01:06,934\n這個不要撥補漲電價那當然就接受這樣的做法但是如果新民一出來是支持現在政府的方案由政府來撥補電價不要漲電價不要影響到民生的物價那我認為應該就採用這樣的方案次長同意這樣的看法嗎\n\n5\n00:01:08,436 --> 00:01:17,349\n基本上目前台電的這個虧損是過去的這個能源價格飛漲所以我們現在爭取的撥補包括疫後的這個預算500億還有我們113年所提出來的最佳解預算1000億\n\n6\n00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:44,173\n就是為了來彌補台電過去...市長如果未來政府有撥補的話是不是就可以不調漲民生的電價我們會優先從自己的體質的改善來做讓台電公司有一個健全的財務結構的體質如果政府撥補應該是可以不用調漲民生電價是吧\n\n7\n00:01:45,233 --> 00:02:00,758\n這個部分在電價審議委員會裡面有去做一個檢討但是基本上我們希望說我們可以做的部分我們先做所以台電公司從去年年底開始他預估雖然今年都是虧損因為\n\n8\n00:02:03,665 --> 00:02:21,193\n這個電價沒有調轉的關係可以虧損達到這個500億元左右但是他自己開源節流他可以省了150億所以如果有波普的話應該可以朝向部長電價這樣的方向來走這個我們可以來試圖來再盤點一下再看看\n\n9\n00:02:23,309 --> 00:02:25,153\n過去這段時間二國戰爭導致這個油料上漲有6000億的虧損主要的虧損在這邊嘛那現在政府撥補多少進來的\n\n10\n00:02:34,103 --> 00:02:46,752\n500億所以其實還有5500的一個缺口那如果接下來如果未來有2000億再撥補進來的話那適度的一些撥補透過這幾年經濟成長不錯的狀況有盈餘的狀況來撥補我認為這個會比發現金是更好的方式發現金因為這個在解決的是讓民生讓物價不要波動這個對於整個國家的經濟體制這會對於整個民生幫助更大市長應該同意這樣的看法吧\n\n11\n00:03:04,203 --> 00:03:26,267\n若是有這些錢進來的話對於台電公司改善他的財務體質會有非常大的一個正面幫助過去因為物價的上漲總共台電背負了6000億左右的支出因為電價被為主而調漲那其中就2600億是屬於照顧民生照顧弱勢的部分\n\n12\n00:03:26,815 --> 00:03:54,728\n是我們希望還是朝這個方向有這個部分由政府來撥補政府有盈利有賺到錢由政府來撥補台電來減損這些減少這些民生的電價調漲而造成的整個物價的波動我認為這個對這個才是一個三贏的方案我認為這是三贏方案對人民好對國家好對台電也好所以我希望還是朝這個方向由七八月新民意出來之後我們希望取得支持之後那一樣由國家來撥補\n\n13\n00:03:55,908 --> 00:03:58,970\n不要來漲民生電價來繼續穩住我們的這個物價我認為這個對長遠的這個台灣的經濟發展整體上是比較好的謝謝委員的建議那113年追加解的預算1000億現在在朝野協商中也通過我們委員會也希望儘快的\n\n14\n00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:37,255\n這個部分就是能趕快的落實對於台電公司現在的這個虧損的狀況應該很可惜啦基金委員會專業的審查的意見其實到朝野協商都沒有被尊重啦我認為其實這個應該要嚴厲的譴責朝野協商這個機制基金委員會大家經過很多審慎思考多數委員這也長期都在委員會內對這個的思考跟敏感度更高的那經過了很多的思考像上次大概認為其實是凍結30億\n\n15\n00:04:39,516 --> 00:04:59,987\n這個就可以結果到了朝野協商室完全被刪除掉1000億完全不尊重經濟委員會裡面這個各朝野各政黨有藍有綠有白大家的一共識我認為這個其實是不恰當的那我再問一下很多人在講說虧損的原因是包括說是綠電甚至包括核電次長是這樣子的嗎並不是這樣子的\n\n16\n00:05:03,637 --> 00:05:26,158\n從我們3月29我們在FB所提出來的就是委員現在這張slide的這個右下角這個圖卡可以看到即便我們恢復到我們2016年當時核能這個佔比高達16%的這個狀況以現在的這個燃油價格來算的話它的成本還是要將近4塊錢這是第一個第二個\n\n17\n00:05:30,950 --> 00:05:56,041\n我們鄰近的國家韓國他的核能的占比遠高於這個數值他政府撥補的這個預算他的虧損也是比我們台電公司更大過去幾年來台電一直努力不管是颱風風災我們看到說台電的員工很快速的復原請次長跟請經濟部要持續的說明現在有特定的人包括一些立委甚至有\n\n18\n00:05:57,281 --> 00:06:10,430\n廣軍不斷的這樣講講100遍講1000遍就變事實了現在講的一副好像就是這些巨額的虧損是因為綠電的關係肥自私肥油油然後是因為核能的關係這樣這樣的說法完全是一個錯誤的說法\n\n19\n00:06:13,952 --> 00:06:40,510\n這兩個的占比非常的低而且扶持歷練本來就是國家政策的方向核能本來就是一個還要審慎評估的因為包含核廢料包含核能安全朝野都沒有達成共識嘛沒有共識的東西你用什麼規則這都是假議題阿用這樣的方式占這麼低的占比把六千億完全歸在這裡面這是在顛倒是非這是在模糊視聽我們認為經濟部要持續的說明不然一百次一千次假的就變真的這就是認知作戰好不好\n\n20\n00:06:41,147 --> 00:06:55,573\n是謝謝委員指教那我們也非常感謝台電員工過去的這個付出再來時間有限仁武區的去年淹水兩次從這個凱米到山陀兒次長也很熟悉治水的問題\n\n21\n00:06:56,954 --> 00:07:15,034\n市長全力的支持仁武這個積淹水問題好嗎11.2億請盡速的到位同時間協助仁武仁武是一個快速開發的一個區域那兩次的颱風兩次的淹水這真的是情何以堪所以我認為請部裡面全力的支持這個治水經費沒有問題吧\n\n22\n00:07:16,115 --> 00:07:34,710\n完全沒有問題包括11.2億之外的我們還有將近12億左右還有包括將近2.5億的應急工程我們都會全力來協助這個都是支持在這個都是我們盤點過必須要優先治理的一個區域對這個都是在用在人物的這個工程上面嗎是嗎\n\n23\n00:07:36,391 --> 00:07:57,748\n包括人武啊包括典寶溪周邊的那個啦它其實是問題你一定要治本才有辦法去更遠的解決問題我們希望徹底解決這個人武周邊的典寶溪周邊這些淹水的問題一個進步的城市進步的國家真的不能當然它的好雨量超大啦但是我們還是要努力去克服減輕人民的痛苦\n\n24\n00:07:58,548 --> 00:08:00,991\n因為八控橋跟19萬的經費有4.2億今年會用減一款優先來做這個確定嘛對不對\n\n25\n00:08:08,029 --> 00:08:28,920\n這個是會我們用節育款優先來進行包括測試的工作那有一些必須要去使用到用地的部分的話我們優先展開這個用地的處理所以這個4.21今年就要來做了這個提早啟動提早完成可以減輕人民的一些這個風險這個請次長署長務必支持好沒問題嗎好我們會來列管好\n\n26\n00:08:32,802 --> 00:08:47,532\n另外啟京的排水我們也花了一億一億啦齁這個也謝謝市長這個是天文爆炒的這個預算對那我們能做的因為我們不可能請人民搬走了嘛他面臨這樣問題但是我們能做的是透過堤防加高\n\n27\n00:08:48,332 --> 00:09:15,180\n內水的這個堵住然後把抽水機抽除吃個低化地區來優先這個也是在讓旗津這邊的鄉親減少包括大潮包括颱風來的時候的造成的積淹水問題這個也希望如期如質來完成從2025到2627我希望能夠如期如質甚至加快的完成這也請市長來列管來處理好嗎好謝謝好不好這請市長來加速列管好謝謝謝謝市長好謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n526\t4068\t好 謝謝趙薇 請賴市長賴市長市長好 委員好那個滇交誠意委員會現在確定是不調漲嗎\n16058\t33386\t那我之前其實也提出來了我也認為這個兩條路啦一個是政府的撥補一個是調漲電價但是調漲電價對於整個台灣的未來影響太重大了所以我認為其實應該走的是用政府撥補的方式是一個比較好的方式但是\n34326\t47074\t整個國會其實並沒有支持啦所以我個人看法應該等到新民意出來之後讓民意來做最後決定也就是說七八月新的民意出來之後那如果新的民意認為還是應該要\n50535\t66934\t這個不要撥補漲電價那當然就接受這樣的做法但是如果新民一出來是支持現在政府的方案由政府來撥補電價不要漲電價不要影響到民生的物價那我認為應該就採用這樣的方案次長同意這樣的看法嗎\n68436\t77349\t基本上目前台電的這個虧損是過去的這個能源價格飛漲所以我們現在爭取的撥補包括疫後的這個預算500億還有我們113年所提出來的最佳解預算1000億\n84520\t104173\t就是為了來彌補台電過去...市長如果未來政府有撥補的話是不是就可以不調漲民生的電價我們會優先從自己的體質的改善來做讓台電公司有一個健全的財務結構的體質如果政府撥補應該是可以不用調漲民生電價是吧\n105233\t120758\t這個部分在電價審議委員會裡面有去做一個檢討 但是基本上我們希望說我們可以做的部分我們先做 所以台電公司從去年年底開始他預估雖然今年都是虧損 因為\n123665\t141193\t這個電價沒有調轉的關係可以虧損達到這個500億元左右但是他自己開源節流他可以省了150億所以如果有波普的話應該可以朝向部長電價這樣的方向來走這個我們可以來試圖來再盤點一下再看看\n143309\t145153\t過去這段時間二國戰爭導致這個油料上漲有6000億的虧損主要的虧損在這邊嘛那現在政府撥補多少進來的\n154103\t166752\t500億所以其實還有5500的一個缺口那如果接下來如果未來有2000億再撥補進來的話那適度的一些撥補透過這幾年經濟成長不錯的狀況有盈餘的狀況來撥補我認為這個會比發現金是更好的方式發現金因為這個在解決的是讓民生讓物價不要波動這個對於整個國家的經濟體制這會對於整個民生幫助更大市長應該同意這樣的看法吧\n184203\t206267\t若是有這些錢進來的話對於台電公司改善他的財務體質會有非常大的一個正面幫助過去因為物價的上漲總共台電背負了6000億左右的支出因為電價被為主而調漲那其中就2600億是屬於照顧民生照顧弱勢的部分\n206815\t234728\t是我們希望還是朝這個方向有這個部分由政府來撥補政府有盈利有賺到錢由政府來撥補台電來減損這些減少這些民生的電價調漲而造成的整個物價的波動我認為這個對這個才是一個三贏的方案我認為這是三贏方案對人民好對國家好對台電也好所以我希望還是朝這個方向由七八月新民意出來之後我們希望取得支持之後那一樣由國家來撥補\n235908\t238970\t不要來漲民生電價來繼續穩住我們的這個物價我認為這個對長遠的這個台灣的經濟發展整體上是比較好的謝謝委員的建議那113年追加解的預算1000億現在在朝野協商中也通過我們委員會也希望儘快的\n253040\t277255\t這個部分就是能趕快的落實對於台電公司現在的這個虧損的狀況應該很可惜啦 基金委員會專業的審查的意見其實到朝野協商都沒有被尊重啦我認為其實這個應該要嚴厲的譴責朝野協商這個機制基金委員會大家經過很多審慎思考多數委員這也長期都在委員會內對這個的思考跟敏感度更高的那經過了很多的思考像上次大概認為其實是凍結30億\n279516\t299987\t這個就可以結果到了朝野協商室完全被刪除掉1000億完全不尊重經濟委員會裡面這個各朝野各政黨有藍有綠有白大家的一共識我認為這個其實是不恰當的那我再問一下很多人在講說虧損的原因是包括說是綠電甚至包括核電次長是這樣子的嗎並不是這樣子的\n303637\t326158\t從我們3月29我們在FB所提出來的就是委員現在這張slide的這個右下角這個圖卡可以看到即便我們恢復到我們2016年當時核能這個佔比高達16%的這個狀況以現在的這個燃油價格來算的話它的成本還是要將近4塊錢這是第一個第二個\n330950\t356041\t我們鄰近的國家韓國他的核能的占比遠高於這個數值他政府撥補的這個預算他的虧損也是比我們台電公司更大過去幾年來台電一直努力不管是颱風風災我們看到說台電的員工很快速的復原請次長跟請經濟部要持續的說明現在有特定的人包括一些立委甚至有\n357281\t370430\t廣軍不斷的這樣講講100遍 講1000遍就變事實了現在講的一副好像就是這些巨額的虧損是因為綠電的關係 肥自私 肥油油然後是因為核能的關係 這樣這樣的說法完全是一個錯誤的說法\n373952\t400510\t這兩個的占比非常的低而且扶持歷練本來就是國家政策的方向核能本來就是一個還要審慎評估的因為包含核廢料包含核能安全朝野都沒有達成共識嘛沒有共識的東西你用什麼規則這都是假議題阿用這樣的方式占這麼低的占比把六千億完全歸在這裡面這是在顛倒是非這是在模糊視聽我們認為經濟部要持續的說明不然一百次一千次假的就變真的這就是認知作戰好不好\n401147\t415573\t是謝謝委員指教那我們也非常感謝台電員工過去的這個付出再來時間有限仁武區的去年淹水兩次從這個凱米到山陀兒次長也很熟悉治水的問題\n416954\t435034\t市長全力的支持仁武這個積淹水問題好嗎11.2億請盡速的到位同時間協助仁武仁武是一個快速開發的一個區域那兩次的颱風兩次的淹水這真的是情何以堪所以我認為請部裡面全力的支持這個治水經費沒有問題吧\n436115\t454710\t完全沒有問題 包括11.2億之外的我們還有將近12億左右還有包括將近2.5億的應急工程我們都會全力來協助這個都是支持在這個都是我們盤點過必須要優先治理的一個區域對 這個都是在用在人物的這個工程上面嗎 是嗎\n456391\t477748\t包括人武啊 包括典寶溪周邊的那個啦它其實是問題你一定要治本才有辦法去更遠的解決問題我們希望徹底解決這個人武周邊的典寶溪周邊這些淹水的問題一個進步的城市 進步的國家真的不能 當然它的好雨量超大啦但是我們還是要努力去克服減輕人民的痛苦\n478548\t480991\t因為八控橋跟19萬的經費有4.2億今年會用減一款優先來做 這個確定嘛對不對\n488029\t508920\t這個是會我們用節育款優先來進行包括測試的工作那有一些必須要去使用到用地的部分的話我們優先展開這個用地的處理所以這個4.21今年就要來做了這個提早啟動提早完成可以減輕人民的一些這個風險這個請次長署長務必支持好沒問題嗎好我們會來列管好\n512802\t527532\t另外啟京的排水我們也花了一億一億啦齁 這個也謝謝市長這個是天文爆炒的這個預算 對那我們能做的 因為我們不可能請人民搬走了嘛他面臨這樣問題 但是我們能做的是透過堤防加高\n528332\t555180\t內水的這個堵住然後把抽水機抽除吃個低化地區來優先這個也是在讓旗津這邊的鄉親減少包括大潮包括颱風來的時候的造成的積淹水問題這個也希望如期如質來完成從2025到2627我希望能夠如期如質甚至加快的完成這也請市長來列管來處理好嗎好謝謝好不好這請市長來加速列管好謝謝謝謝市長好謝謝委員\n","txt":"好 謝謝趙薇 請賴市長賴市長市長好 委員好那個滇交誠意委員會現在確定是不調漲嗎\n那我之前其實也提出來了我也認為這個兩條路啦一個是政府的撥補一個是調漲電價但是調漲電價對於整個台灣的未來影響太重大了所以我認為其實應該走的是用政府撥補的方式是一個比較好的方式但是\n整個國會其實並沒有支持啦所以我個人看法應該等到新民意出來之後讓民意來做最後決定也就是說七八月新的民意出來之後那如果新的民意認為還是應該要\n這個不要撥補漲電價那當然就接受這樣的做法但是如果新民一出來是支持現在政府的方案由政府來撥補電價不要漲電價不要影響到民生的物價那我認為應該就採用這樣的方案次長同意這樣的看法嗎\n基本上目前台電的這個虧損是過去的這個能源價格飛漲所以我們現在爭取的撥補包括疫後的這個預算500億還有我們113年所提出來的最佳解預算1000億\n就是為了來彌補台電過去...市長如果未來政府有撥補的話是不是就可以不調漲民生的電價我們會優先從自己的體質的改善來做讓台電公司有一個健全的財務結構的體質如果政府撥補應該是可以不用調漲民生電價是吧\n這個部分在電價審議委員會裡面有去做一個檢討 但是基本上我們希望說我們可以做的部分我們先做 所以台電公司從去年年底開始他預估雖然今年都是虧損 因為\n這個電價沒有調轉的關係可以虧損達到這個500億元左右但是他自己開源節流他可以省了150億所以如果有波普的話應該可以朝向部長電價這樣的方向來走這個我們可以來試圖來再盤點一下再看看\n過去這段時間二國戰爭導致這個油料上漲有6000億的虧損主要的虧損在這邊嘛那現在政府撥補多少進來的\n500億所以其實還有5500的一個缺口那如果接下來如果未來有2000億再撥補進來的話那適度的一些撥補透過這幾年經濟成長不錯的狀況有盈餘的狀況來撥補我認為這個會比發現金是更好的方式發現金因為這個在解決的是讓民生讓物價不要波動這個對於整個國家的經濟體制這會對於整個民生幫助更大市長應該同意這樣的看法吧\n若是有這些錢進來的話對於台電公司改善他的財務體質會有非常大的一個正面幫助過去因為物價的上漲總共台電背負了6000億左右的支出因為電價被為主而調漲那其中就2600億是屬於照顧民生照顧弱勢的部分\n是我們希望還是朝這個方向有這個部分由政府來撥補政府有盈利有賺到錢由政府來撥補台電來減損這些減少這些民生的電價調漲而造成的整個物價的波動我認為這個對這個才是一個三贏的方案我認為這是三贏方案對人民好對國家好對台電也好所以我希望還是朝這個方向由七八月新民意出來之後我們希望取得支持之後那一樣由國家來撥補\n不要來漲民生電價來繼續穩住我們的這個物價我認為這個對長遠的這個台灣的經濟發展整體上是比較好的謝謝委員的建議那113年追加解的預算1000億現在在朝野協商中也通過我們委員會也希望儘快的\n這個部分就是能趕快的落實對於台電公司現在的這個虧損的狀況應該很可惜啦 基金委員會專業的審查的意見其實到朝野協商都沒有被尊重啦我認為其實這個應該要嚴厲的譴責朝野協商這個機制基金委員會大家經過很多審慎思考多數委員這也長期都在委員會內對這個的思考跟敏感度更高的那經過了很多的思考像上次大概認為其實是凍結30億\n這個就可以結果到了朝野協商室完全被刪除掉1000億完全不尊重經濟委員會裡面這個各朝野各政黨有藍有綠有白大家的一共識我認為這個其實是不恰當的那我再問一下很多人在講說虧損的原因是包括說是綠電甚至包括核電次長是這樣子的嗎並不是這樣子的\n從我們3月29我們在FB所提出來的就是委員現在這張slide的這個右下角這個圖卡可以看到即便我們恢復到我們2016年當時核能這個佔比高達16%的這個狀況以現在的這個燃油價格來算的話它的成本還是要將近4塊錢這是第一個第二個\n我們鄰近的國家韓國他的核能的占比遠高於這個數值他政府撥補的這個預算他的虧損也是比我們台電公司更大過去幾年來台電一直努力不管是颱風風災我們看到說台電的員工很快速的復原請次長跟請經濟部要持續的說明現在有特定的人包括一些立委甚至有\n廣軍不斷的這樣講講100遍 講1000遍就變事實了現在講的一副好像就是這些巨額的虧損是因為綠電的關係 肥自私 肥油油然後是因為核能的關係 這樣這樣的說法完全是一個錯誤的說法\n這兩個的占比非常的低而且扶持歷練本來就是國家政策的方向核能本來就是一個還要審慎評估的因為包含核廢料包含核能安全朝野都沒有達成共識嘛沒有共識的東西你用什麼規則這都是假議題阿用這樣的方式占這麼低的占比把六千億完全歸在這裡面這是在顛倒是非這是在模糊視聽我們認為經濟部要持續的說明不然一百次一千次假的就變真的這就是認知作戰好不好\n是謝謝委員指教那我們也非常感謝台電員工過去的這個付出再來時間有限仁武區的去年淹水兩次從這個凱米到山陀兒次長也很熟悉治水的問題\n市長全力的支持仁武這個積淹水問題好嗎11.2億請盡速的到位同時間協助仁武仁武是一個快速開發的一個區域那兩次的颱風兩次的淹水這真的是情何以堪所以我認為請部裡面全力的支持這個治水經費沒有問題吧\n完全沒有問題 包括11.2億之外的我們還有將近12億左右還有包括將近2.5億的應急工程我們都會全力來協助這個都是支持在這個都是我們盤點過必須要優先治理的一個區域對 這個都是在用在人物的這個工程上面嗎 是嗎\n包括人武啊 包括典寶溪周邊的那個啦它其實是問題你一定要治本才有辦法去更遠的解決問題我們希望徹底解決這個人武周邊的典寶溪周邊這些淹水的問題一個進步的城市 進步的國家真的不能 當然它的好雨量超大啦但是我們還是要努力去克服減輕人民的痛苦\n因為八控橋跟19萬的經費有4.2億今年會用減一款優先來做 這個確定嘛對不對\n這個是會我們用節育款優先來進行包括測試的工作那有一些必須要去使用到用地的部分的話我們優先展開這個用地的處理所以這個4.21今年就要來做了這個提早啟動提早完成可以減輕人民的一些這個風險這個請次長署長務必支持好沒問題嗎好我們會來列管好\n另外啟京的排水我們也花了一億一億啦齁 這個也謝謝市長這個是天文爆炒的這個預算 對那我們能做的 因為我們不可能請人民搬走了嘛他面臨這樣問題 但是我們能做的是透過堤防加高\n內水的這個堵住然後把抽水機抽除吃個低化地區來優先這個也是在讓旗津這邊的鄉親減少包括大潮包括颱風來的時候的造成的積淹水問題這個也希望如期如質來完成從2025到2627我希望能夠如期如質甚至加快的完成這也請市長來列管來處理好嗎好謝謝好不好這請市長來加速列管好謝謝謝謝市長好謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.526 --> 00:04.068\n好謝謝趙薇請賴市長賴市長市長好委員好那個滇交誠意委員會現在確定是不調漲嗎\n\n00:16.058 --> 00:33.386\n那我之前其實也提出來了我也認為這個兩條路啦一個是政府的撥補一個是調漲電價但是調漲電價對於整個台灣的未來影響太重大了所以我認為其實應該走的是用政府撥補的方式是一個比較好的方式但是\n\n00:34.326 --> 00:47.074\n整個國會其實並沒有支持啦所以我個人看法應該等到新民意出來之後讓民意來做最後決定也就是說七八月新的民意出來之後那如果新的民意認為還是應該要\n\n00:50.535 --> 01:06.934\n這個不要撥補漲電價那當然就接受這樣的做法但是如果新民一出來是支持現在政府的方案由政府來撥補電價不要漲電價不要影響到民生的物價那我認為應該就採用這樣的方案次長同意這樣的看法嗎\n\n01:08.436 --> 01:17.349\n基本上目前台電的這個虧損是過去的這個能源價格飛漲所以我們現在爭取的撥補包括疫後的這個預算500億還有我們113年所提出來的最佳解預算1000億\n\n01:24.520 --> 01:44.173\n就是為了來彌補台電過去...市長如果未來政府有撥補的話是不是就可以不調漲民生的電價我們會優先從自己的體質的改善來做讓台電公司有一個健全的財務結構的體質如果政府撥補應該是可以不用調漲民生電價是吧\n\n01:45.233 --> 02:00.758\n這個部分在電價審議委員會裡面有去做一個檢討但是基本上我們希望說我們可以做的部分我們先做所以台電公司從去年年底開始他預估雖然今年都是虧損因為\n\n02:03.665 --> 02:21.193\n這個電價沒有調轉的關係可以虧損達到這個500億元左右但是他自己開源節流他可以省了150億所以如果有波普的話應該可以朝向部長電價這樣的方向來走這個我們可以來試圖來再盤點一下再看看\n\n02:23.309 --> 02:25.153\n過去這段時間二國戰爭導致這個油料上漲有6000億的虧損主要的虧損在這邊嘛那現在政府撥補多少進來的\n\n02:34.103 --> 02:46.752\n500億所以其實還有5500的一個缺口那如果接下來如果未來有2000億再撥補進來的話那適度的一些撥補透過這幾年經濟成長不錯的狀況有盈餘的狀況來撥補我認為這個會比發現金是更好的方式發現金因為這個在解決的是讓民生讓物價不要波動這個對於整個國家的經濟體制這會對於整個民生幫助更大市長應該同意這樣的看法吧\n\n03:04.203 --> 03:26.267\n若是有這些錢進來的話對於台電公司改善他的財務體質會有非常大的一個正面幫助過去因為物價的上漲總共台電背負了6000億左右的支出因為電價被為主而調漲那其中就2600億是屬於照顧民生照顧弱勢的部分\n\n03:26.815 --> 03:54.728\n是我們希望還是朝這個方向有這個部分由政府來撥補政府有盈利有賺到錢由政府來撥補台電來減損這些減少這些民生的電價調漲而造成的整個物價的波動我認為這個對這個才是一個三贏的方案我認為這是三贏方案對人民好對國家好對台電也好所以我希望還是朝這個方向由七八月新民意出來之後我們希望取得支持之後那一樣由國家來撥補\n\n03:55.908 --> 03:58.970\n不要來漲民生電價來繼續穩住我們的這個物價我認為這個對長遠的這個台灣的經濟發展整體上是比較好的謝謝委員的建議那113年追加解的預算1000億現在在朝野協商中也通過我們委員會也希望儘快的\n\n04:13.040 --> 04:37.255\n這個部分就是能趕快的落實對於台電公司現在的這個虧損的狀況應該很可惜啦基金委員會專業的審查的意見其實到朝野協商都沒有被尊重啦我認為其實這個應該要嚴厲的譴責朝野協商這個機制基金委員會大家經過很多審慎思考多數委員這也長期都在委員會內對這個的思考跟敏感度更高的那經過了很多的思考像上次大概認為其實是凍結30億\n\n04:39.516 --> 04:59.987\n這個就可以結果到了朝野協商室完全被刪除掉1000億完全不尊重經濟委員會裡面這個各朝野各政黨有藍有綠有白大家的一共識我認為這個其實是不恰當的那我再問一下很多人在講說虧損的原因是包括說是綠電甚至包括核電次長是這樣子的嗎並不是這樣子的\n\n05:03.637 --> 05:26.158\n從我們3月29我們在FB所提出來的就是委員現在這張slide的這個右下角這個圖卡可以看到即便我們恢復到我們2016年當時核能這個佔比高達16%的這個狀況以現在的這個燃油價格來算的話它的成本還是要將近4塊錢這是第一個第二個\n\n05:30.950 --> 05:56.041\n我們鄰近的國家韓國他的核能的占比遠高於這個數值他政府撥補的這個預算他的虧損也是比我們台電公司更大過去幾年來台電一直努力不管是颱風風災我們看到說台電的員工很快速的復原請次長跟請經濟部要持續的說明現在有特定的人包括一些立委甚至有\n\n05:57.281 --> 06:10.430\n廣軍不斷的這樣講講100遍講1000遍就變事實了現在講的一副好像就是這些巨額的虧損是因為綠電的關係肥自私肥油油然後是因為核能的關係這樣這樣的說法完全是一個錯誤的說法\n\n06:13.952 --> 06:40.510\n這兩個的占比非常的低而且扶持歷練本來就是國家政策的方向核能本來就是一個還要審慎評估的因為包含核廢料包含核能安全朝野都沒有達成共識嘛沒有共識的東西你用什麼規則這都是假議題阿用這樣的方式占這麼低的占比把六千億完全歸在這裡面這是在顛倒是非這是在模糊視聽我們認為經濟部要持續的說明不然一百次一千次假的就變真的這就是認知作戰好不好\n\n06:41.147 --> 06:55.573\n是謝謝委員指教那我們也非常感謝台電員工過去的這個付出再來時間有限仁武區的去年淹水兩次從這個凱米到山陀兒次長也很熟悉治水的問題\n\n06:56.954 --> 07:15.034\n市長全力的支持仁武這個積淹水問題好嗎11.2億請盡速的到位同時間協助仁武仁武是一個快速開發的一個區域那兩次的颱風兩次的淹水這真的是情何以堪所以我認為請部裡面全力的支持這個治水經費沒有問題吧\n\n07:16.115 --> 07:34.710\n完全沒有問題包括11.2億之外的我們還有將近12億左右還有包括將近2.5億的應急工程我們都會全力來協助這個都是支持在這個都是我們盤點過必須要優先治理的一個區域對這個都是在用在人物的這個工程上面嗎是嗎\n\n07:36.391 --> 07:57.748\n包括人武啊包括典寶溪周邊的那個啦它其實是問題你一定要治本才有辦法去更遠的解決問題我們希望徹底解決這個人武周邊的典寶溪周邊這些淹水的問題一個進步的城市進步的國家真的不能當然它的好雨量超大啦但是我們還是要努力去克服減輕人民的痛苦\n\n07:58.548 --> 08:00.991\n因為八控橋跟19萬的經費有4.2億今年會用減一款優先來做這個確定嘛對不對\n\n08:08.029 --> 08:28.920\n這個是會我們用節育款優先來進行包括測試的工作那有一些必須要去使用到用地的部分的話我們優先展開這個用地的處理所以這個4.21今年就要來做了這個提早啟動提早完成可以減輕人民的一些這個風險這個請次長署長務必支持好沒問題嗎好我們會來列管好\n\n08:32.802 --> 08:47.532\n另外啟京的排水我們也花了一億一億啦齁這個也謝謝市長這個是天文爆炒的這個預算對那我們能做的因為我們不可能請人民搬走了嘛他面臨這樣問題但是我們能做的是透過堤防加高\n\n08:48.332 --> 09:15.180\n內水的這個堵住然後把抽水機抽除吃個低化地區來優先這個也是在讓旗津這邊的鄉親減少包括大潮包括颱風來的時候的造成的積淹水問題這個也希望如期如質來完成從2025到2627我希望能夠如期如質甚至加快的完成這也請市長來列管來處理好嗎好謝謝好不好這請市長來加速列管好謝謝謝謝市長好謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.526,"end":4.068,"text":"好 謝謝趙薇 請賴市長賴市長市長好 委員好那個滇交誠意委員會現在確定是不調漲嗎"},{"start":16.058,"end":33.386,"text":"那我之前其實也提出來了我也認為這個兩條路啦一個是政府的撥補一個是調漲電價但是調漲電價對於整個台灣的未來影響太重大了所以我認為其實應該走的是用政府撥補的方式是一個比較好的方式但是"},{"start":34.326,"end":47.074,"text":"整個國會其實並沒有支持啦所以我個人看法應該等到新民意出來之後讓民意來做最後決定也就是說七八月新的民意出來之後那如果新的民意認為還是應該要"},{"start":50.535,"end":66.934,"text":"這個不要撥補漲電價那當然就接受這樣的做法但是如果新民一出來是支持現在政府的方案由政府來撥補電價不要漲電價不要影響到民生的物價那我認為應該就採用這樣的方案次長同意這樣的看法嗎"},{"start":68.436,"end":77.349,"text":"基本上目前台電的這個虧損是過去的這個能源價格飛漲所以我們現在爭取的撥補包括疫後的這個預算500億還有我們113年所提出來的最佳解預算1000億"},{"start":84.52,"end":104.173,"text":"就是為了來彌補台電過去...市長如果未來政府有撥補的話是不是就可以不調漲民生的電價我們會優先從自己的體質的改善來做讓台電公司有一個健全的財務結構的體質如果政府撥補應該是可以不用調漲民生電價是吧"},{"start":105.233,"end":120.758,"text":"這個部分在電價審議委員會裡面有去做一個檢討 但是基本上我們希望說我們可以做的部分我們先做 所以台電公司從去年年底開始他預估雖然今年都是虧損 因為"},{"start":123.665,"end":141.193,"text":"這個電價沒有調轉的關係可以虧損達到這個500億元左右但是他自己開源節流他可以省了150億所以如果有波普的話應該可以朝向部長電價這樣的方向來走這個我們可以來試圖來再盤點一下再看看"},{"start":143.309,"end":145.153,"text":"過去這段時間二國戰爭導致這個油料上漲有6000億的虧損主要的虧損在這邊嘛那現在政府撥補多少進來的"},{"start":154.103,"end":166.752,"text":"500億所以其實還有5500的一個缺口那如果接下來如果未來有2000億再撥補進來的話那適度的一些撥補透過這幾年經濟成長不錯的狀況有盈餘的狀況來撥補我認為這個會比發現金是更好的方式發現金因為這個在解決的是讓民生讓物價不要波動這個對於整個國家的經濟體制這會對於整個民生幫助更大市長應該同意這樣的看法吧"},{"start":184.203,"end":206.267,"text":"若是有這些錢進來的話對於台電公司改善他的財務體質會有非常大的一個正面幫助過去因為物價的上漲總共台電背負了6000億左右的支出因為電價被為主而調漲那其中就2600億是屬於照顧民生照顧弱勢的部分"},{"start":206.815,"end":234.728,"text":"是我們希望還是朝這個方向有這個部分由政府來撥補政府有盈利有賺到錢由政府來撥補台電來減損這些減少這些民生的電價調漲而造成的整個物價的波動我認為這個對這個才是一個三贏的方案我認為這是三贏方案對人民好對國家好對台電也好所以我希望還是朝這個方向由七八月新民意出來之後我們希望取得支持之後那一樣由國家來撥補"},{"start":235.908,"end":238.97,"text":"不要來漲民生電價來繼續穩住我們的這個物價我認為這個對長遠的這個台灣的經濟發展整體上是比較好的謝謝委員的建議那113年追加解的預算1000億現在在朝野協商中也通過我們委員會也希望儘快的"},{"start":253.04,"end":277.255,"text":"這個部分就是能趕快的落實對於台電公司現在的這個虧損的狀況應該很可惜啦 基金委員會專業的審查的意見其實到朝野協商都沒有被尊重啦我認為其實這個應該要嚴厲的譴責朝野協商這個機制基金委員會大家經過很多審慎思考多數委員這也長期都在委員會內對這個的思考跟敏感度更高的那經過了很多的思考像上次大概認為其實是凍結30億"},{"start":279.516,"end":299.987,"text":"這個就可以結果到了朝野協商室完全被刪除掉1000億完全不尊重經濟委員會裡面這個各朝野各政黨有藍有綠有白大家的一共識我認為這個其實是不恰當的那我再問一下很多人在講說虧損的原因是包括說是綠電甚至包括核電次長是這樣子的嗎並不是這樣子的"},{"start":303.637,"end":326.158,"text":"從我們3月29我們在FB所提出來的就是委員現在這張slide的這個右下角這個圖卡可以看到即便我們恢復到我們2016年當時核能這個佔比高達16%的這個狀況以現在的這個燃油價格來算的話它的成本還是要將近4塊錢這是第一個第二個"},{"start":330.95,"end":356.041,"text":"我們鄰近的國家韓國他的核能的占比遠高於這個數值他政府撥補的這個預算他的虧損也是比我們台電公司更大過去幾年來台電一直努力不管是颱風風災我們看到說台電的員工很快速的復原請次長跟請經濟部要持續的說明現在有特定的人包括一些立委甚至有"},{"start":357.281,"end":370.43,"text":"廣軍不斷的這樣講講100遍 講1000遍就變事實了現在講的一副好像就是這些巨額的虧損是因為綠電的關係 肥自私 肥油油然後是因為核能的關係 這樣這樣的說法完全是一個錯誤的說法"},{"start":373.952,"end":400.51,"text":"這兩個的占比非常的低而且扶持歷練本來就是國家政策的方向核能本來就是一個還要審慎評估的因為包含核廢料包含核能安全朝野都沒有達成共識嘛沒有共識的東西你用什麼規則這都是假議題阿用這樣的方式占這麼低的占比把六千億完全歸在這裡面這是在顛倒是非這是在模糊視聽我們認為經濟部要持續的說明不然一百次一千次假的就變真的這就是認知作戰好不好"},{"start":401.147,"end":415.573,"text":"是謝謝委員指教那我們也非常感謝台電員工過去的這個付出再來時間有限仁武區的去年淹水兩次從這個凱米到山陀兒次長也很熟悉治水的問題"},{"start":416.954,"end":435.034,"text":"市長全力的支持仁武這個積淹水問題好嗎11.2億請盡速的到位同時間協助仁武仁武是一個快速開發的一個區域那兩次的颱風兩次的淹水這真的是情何以堪所以我認為請部裡面全力的支持這個治水經費沒有問題吧"},{"start":436.115,"end":454.71,"text":"完全沒有問題 包括11.2億之外的我們還有將近12億左右還有包括將近2.5億的應急工程我們都會全力來協助這個都是支持在這個都是我們盤點過必須要優先治理的一個區域對 這個都是在用在人物的這個工程上面嗎 是嗎"},{"start":456.391,"end":477.748,"text":"包括人武啊 包括典寶溪周邊的那個啦它其實是問題你一定要治本才有辦法去更遠的解決問題我們希望徹底解決這個人武周邊的典寶溪周邊這些淹水的問題一個進步的城市 進步的國家真的不能 當然它的好雨量超大啦但是我們還是要努力去克服減輕人民的痛苦"},{"start":478.548,"end":480.991,"text":"因為八控橋跟19萬的經費有4.2億今年會用減一款優先來做 這個確定嘛對不對"},{"start":488.029,"end":508.92,"text":"這個是會我們用節育款優先來進行包括測試的工作那有一些必須要去使用到用地的部分的話我們優先展開這個用地的處理所以這個4.21今年就要來做了這個提早啟動提早完成可以減輕人民的一些這個風險這個請次長署長務必支持好沒問題嗎好我們會來列管好"},{"start":512.802,"end":527.532,"text":"另外啟京的排水我們也花了一億一億啦齁 這個也謝謝市長這個是天文爆炒的這個預算 對那我們能做的 因為我們不可能請人民搬走了嘛他面臨這樣問題 但是我們能做的是透過堤防加高"},{"start":528.332,"end":555.18,"text":"內水的這個堵住然後把抽水機抽除吃個低化地區來優先這個也是在讓旗津這邊的鄉親減少包括大潮包括颱風來的時候的造成的積淹水問題這個也希望如期如質來完成從2025到2627我希望能夠如期如質甚至加快的完成這也請市長來列管來處理好嗎好謝謝好不好這請市長來加速列管好謝謝謝謝市長好謝謝委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":510,"blocks":[["賴委員瑞隆：（10時59分）謝謝召委，請賴次長。"],["主席：賴次長。"],["賴次長建信：委員好。"],["賴委員瑞隆：次長，電價審議委員會現在確定是不調漲，我之前其實也提出來，我也認為兩條路，一個是政府的撥補，一個是調漲電價，但是調漲電價對於整個臺灣的未來影響太重大，所以我認為其實應該走的是用政府撥補的方式，會是一個比較好的方式，可是整個國會其實並沒有支持。所以我個人的看法，應該等到新民意出來之後，讓民意來作最後的決定，也就是說，7、8月新的民意出來之後，如果新的民意認為還是應該不要撥補，漲電價，那當然就接受這樣的作法；但是如果新民意出來是支持現在政府的方案，由政府來撥補電價，不要漲電價，不要影響到民生的物價，那我認為應該就採用這樣的方案。次長同意這樣的看法嗎？"],["賴次長建信：基本上，目前台電的這個虧損是由於過去的能源價格飛漲，所以我們現在爭取的撥補，包括疫後的預算500億，還有113年所提出來的追加減預算1,000億，都是為了彌補台電過去因為能源價格的虧損……"],["賴委員瑞隆：次長，如果未來政府有撥補的話，是不是就可以不調漲民生的電價？"],["賴次長建信：我們會優先從改善自己的體質做起，讓台電公司有一個健全的財務結構的體質。"],["賴委員瑞隆：如果政府撥補，應該是可以不用調漲民生電價，是吧？"],["賴次長建信：這個部分在電價審議委員會裡面有去做一個檢討，但是基本上我們希望可以做的部分我們先做，所以從去年年底開始，台電公司預估，因為電價沒有調整的關係，雖然今年的虧損會達到500億元左右，但是它自己開源節流，可以省下150億……"],["賴委員瑞隆：所以如果有撥補的話，應該可以朝向不漲電價這樣的方向來走。"],["賴次長建信：這個我們可以試圖再盤點一下，再看看。"],["賴委員瑞隆：過去這段時間俄烏戰爭導致油料上漲，有6,000億的虧損，主要的虧損在這邊，現在政府撥補多少進來了？"],["賴次長建信：500億元。"],["賴委員瑞隆：500億，所以其實還有5,500億的缺口，如果未來有2,000億再撥補進來的話，透過這幾年經濟成長不錯的狀況、有盈餘的狀況適度來做一些撥補，我認為這個是比發現金更好的方式，因為這個在解決的是讓民生、讓物價不要波動，這個對於整個國家的經濟體制、對於整個民生的幫助更大啦！次長應該同意這樣的看法吧？"],["賴次長建信：如果有這些錢進來的話，對於改善台電公司的財務體質會有非常大的一個正面幫助。過去因為物價的上漲，台電總共背負了6,000億左右的支出，因為電價未足額調漲，其中就有2,600億是屬於照顧民生、照顧弱勢的部分。"],["賴委員瑞隆：是，我們希望還是朝這個方向，這個部分由政府來撥補，政府有盈餘、有賺到錢，由政府來撥補台電，減少這些因民生的電價調漲而造成整個物價的波動，我認為這個才是一個三贏的方案，對人民好、對國家好，對台電也好，所以我希望還是朝這個方向。在7、8月新民意出來之後，我們希望取得支持之後，一樣由國家來撥補，不要來漲民生電價，繼續穩住我們的物價，我認為這個對臺灣長遠的經濟發展整體上是比較好的。"],["賴次長建信：謝謝委員的建議，113年追加減的預算1,000億現在在朝野協商中，也通過我們委員會的審議……"],["賴委員瑞隆：也希望儘快……"],["賴次長建信：這個部分若能趕快落實，對於台電公司現在的這個虧損的狀況應該有相當程度的改善。"],["賴委員瑞隆：很可惜，經濟委員會專業的審查意見其實到朝野協商都沒有被尊重，我認為其實應該要嚴厲的譴責朝野協商這個機制，經濟委員會大家經過很多審慎思考，多數委員也長期都在委員會內，對這個的思考跟敏感度很高，經過了很多的思考，像上次大家也認為其實凍結30億就可以，結果到了朝野協商是完全被刪除掉1,000億，完全不尊重經濟委員會裡面朝野各政黨有藍、有綠、有白大家的一個共識，我認為這個其實是不恰當的。","我再問一下，很多人在講說虧損的原因是包括綠電，甚至於包括核電，次長，是這樣子的嗎？"],["賴次長建信：並不是這樣子的，從我們3月29日在FB所提出來的，也就是委員現在這一張投影片右下角的圖卡可以看到，即便我們恢復到2016年當時核能占比高達16%的這個狀況，以現在的燃油價格來算的話，它的成本還是要將近4塊錢，這是第一個。第二個，我們鄰近的國家──韓國，他的核能的占比遠高於這個數值，但他們政府撥補的預算，它的虧損也是比我們台電公司更大。過去幾年來，台電一直努力，不管是颱風、風災，我們看到所有台電的員工很快速的復原……"],["賴委員瑞隆：請次長跟經濟部要持續的說明，現在有特定的人，包括一些立委，甚至有網軍不斷的這樣講，講100遍、講1,000遍就變事實了，現在講的一副好像這些鉅額的虧損是因為綠電的關係，肥滋滋、肥油油，是因為核能的關係……"],["賴次長建信：這完全不正確……"],["賴委員瑞隆：這樣的說法完全是一個錯誤的說法，這兩個占比非常的低，而且扶植綠電本來就是國家政策方向，核能本來就是一個還要審慎評估的，因為包括核廢料、包括核能安全，朝野都沒有達成共識，沒有共識的東西有什麼規則？這都是假議題。用這樣的方式，占這麼低的占比，把6,000億完全歸在這裡面，這是在顛倒是非、這是在模糊視聽，我們認為經濟部要持續的說明，不然100次、1,000次，假的就變真的，這就是認知作戰，好不好？"],["賴次長建信：是，謝謝委員指教，我們也非常感謝台電員工過去的付出。"],["賴委員瑞隆：再來，仁武區去年淹水兩次，從凱米到山陀兒，次長也很熟悉治水的問題，次長，請全力支持仁武的淹水問題，好不好？11.2億請儘速的到位，同時間協助仁武，仁武是一個快速開發的區域，兩次的颱風、兩次的淹水，這真的是情何以堪，所以我認為請部裡面全力的支持這個治水經費，沒有問題吧？"],["賴次長建信：完全沒有問題，包括11.2億之外我們還有將近12億左右，還有包括將近2.5億的應急工程，我們都會全力來協助，這都是我們盤點過必須要優先治理的區域。"],["賴委員瑞隆：對，都是在用在仁武的這個工程上面嗎？"],["賴次長建信：包括仁武、包括典寶溪……"],["賴委員瑞隆：對，包括周邊的，其實一定要治本才有辦法解決根源的問題，我們希望澈底解決仁武周邊、典寶溪周邊這些淹水的問題，一個進步的城市、進步的國家真的不能……當然它的豪雨量超大，但是我們還是要努力去克服，減輕人民的痛苦，好不好？"],["賴次長建信：是，謝謝委員的指導。"],["賴委員瑞隆：另外，八涳橋跟十九灣的經費有4.2億，今年會用結餘款優先來做，這個確定嘛！對不對？"],["賴次長建信：會，我們會用結餘款優先來進行，包括測設的工作，有一些必須要使用到用地的部分，我們優先展開用地的處理。"],["賴委員瑞隆：所以這4.2億今年就會來做，這個提早啟動、提早完成，可以減輕人民的一些風險，請次長、署長務必支持。沒問題嘛？"],["賴次長建信：好，我們會來列管。"],["賴委員瑞隆：另外，旗津的排水改善計畫我們也花了1億，這個也謝謝次長。"],["賴次長建信：這個是天文暴潮的預算。"],["賴委員瑞隆：因為我們不可能請人民搬走，當他們面臨這樣的問題時，我們能做的是透過堤防加高、內水的改善，然後用抽水機抽除，10個低窪地區優先處理，這個也是讓旗津這邊的鄉親減少大潮、颱風來的時候造成的積淹水問題，這個也希望如期如質完成，從2025到26、27，我希望能夠如期如質，甚至加快完成，這也請次長列管來處理，好嗎？"],["賴次長建信：好，謝謝。"],["賴委員瑞隆：這請次長來加速列管，謝謝次長。"],["賴次長建信：謝謝委員。"],["主席（鄭委員正鈐代）：謝謝賴瑞隆委員。","接下來請謝衣鳯召委。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-6","speakers":["謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","林岱樺","陳亭妃","呂玉玲","張嘉郡","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴瑞隆","邱志偉","鄭正鈐","陳超明","鍾佳濱","蔡易餘","葉元之","陳冠廷","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":169,"meetingDate":["2025-03-31"],"gazette_id":"1143301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143301_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長、農業部部長、內政部首長及國家科學及技術委員會首長就「2025年防洪抗旱計\n畫」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143301_00003"}}}