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{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,837 --> 00:00:36,380\n慢慢來,喝完水再上來好,我請主委還有國發會的處長好,請主委跟國發會處長邱處長好委員好,謝謝主委好,邱處長好我想先就我們金融併購的問題來跟主委做討論主委我去年七月份的時候我也關注到就是說我們整體台灣的金融業的規模\n\n2\n00:00:38,121 --> 00:00:56,669\n到底夠不夠大在國際上跟國際型的金控公司相比事實上我們目前在全球的總資產在金控的部分想要排前50名恐怕都有點困難即便是我們台灣目前的國泰金跟富邦金合併才勉強達到我們的最低門檻22.5兆元就是說我們台灣雖然銀行數夠多但是過於零散\n\n3\n00:01:05,973 --> 00:01:22,407\n那在國際性的大型銀行的部分其實我們這一部分也還沒有辦法達到國際一定的水準所以也就是說我們現在台灣整體的金融業是面臨巨大的挑戰所以我們看到20年前我們欣展銀行在哪裡我們都還看不到\n\n4\n00:01:22,827 --> 00:01:44,374\n所以我上次才跟您提到說我們如何把世界背所以您上次也跟我回應說我們透過優質的併購也是一個方向還有什麼其他的方式那我們現在我們金融產業我們過去一二十年我們人才都投資到台積電高科技產業去還是傳統產業那我們現在金融產業佔GDP\n\n5\n00:01:50,276 --> 00:02:09,503\nGDP的比例大概只有維持6%左右我們現在要推亞洲的經營中心資產管理中心到底我們GDP在金融行業占台灣的GDP到底多少你認為才是一個合理的比例是謝謝委員我想剛剛提到有兩個問題一個就是說\n\n6\n00:02:11,764 --> 00:02:38,082\n整併是不是未來我們金融業發展的方向特別是我們面對國際競爭的時候我想這個絕對是一個方向之一那對不起那主委我接著問你你上次也提過我也同意因為過於零散怎麼樣更競爭力達到國際的一定的水準跟標準那到底以台灣目前這麼多家多少的數字整併成多少的數字五家七家什麼樣的一個數字才是合理的\n\n7\n00:02:38,733 --> 00:02:58,860\n其實跟委員報告我研究這個議題超過20年我覺得不可以陷入在數字的迷思因為數字本身會跟相對的不同市場的結構有不同我是覺得應該是這樣數字本身它比如說今天14家15家10幾家這其實重點不在這邊那達到多少的就是說\n\n8\n00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:25,773\n整併之後達到多少的規模才是你認為是優質的一個合併的方式所謂的優質的整併就是說雙方有共同的目標整併的結果是雙方所有共識而且是朝向一個共同目標那當然就是說規模這件事情要看你要在什麼地方你的主要鎖定你的策略群組的競爭對手是誰\n\n9\n00:03:27,734 --> 00:03:43,991\n那這不能假設我今天要打亞洲杯或是打比如本土杯或是當你要進軍到全世界我們現在要打的是世界杯沒有我覺得世界杯就是一樣我們必須很務實就像我們台灣現在很多的金融特別我們金控公司在亞洲已經開始有它的能見度\n\n10\n00:03:44,872 --> 00:03:58,919\n但是又說但是我們要先打亞洲盃再打世界盃嗎那如何打到亞洲盃所以你剛剛講了幾個條件我都很清楚優質的合併啦在內部的溝通這個都是基本的ABC這是標準流程我都很清楚\n\n11\n00:04:00,900 --> 00:04:17,255\n當然診病是一個方向那到底這個金融的產業佔我們GDP的多少你認為才是一個合理的數字我想其實就從整個國際上數字沒有一個所謂的因為這個牽涉到你的分母跟分子的問題當然但是要達到你的目標你覺得多少是一個合理的數字\n\n12\n00:04:17,575 --> 00:04:39,153\n當然我覺得說以台灣的金融業最近幾年的重要性我當然希望這個比例能夠提升提升到多少?你的目標是多少?因為你過去是教授你一定有這一方面去教導學生那你現在再回到今晚會主委這個位置你總是有一個目標跟想法嘛你不會沒有設定目標嘛你很清楚你現在主委不肯回應我\n\n13\n00:04:40,074 --> 00:05:01,450\n我不是不會回應因為我沒有根據的事情我不會隨便的去那目標在哪裡或者是說多少年可以達到你有沒有目標就是說多久之內可以達到那這個數字大概是多少你覺得我們要發展金融管理中心它才是一個有競爭力的管理中心或者一樣又跑到其他國家去我們變成是口號而已啊\n\n14\n00:05:03,892 --> 00:05:18,261\n因為這是一個分子分母之間的關係至少我們的金融業的成長不應該落後於我們的GDP的成長分母這絕對應該是這樣的但我們比較其他國家很多這個比例來看的話它的產業結構不同\n\n15\n00:05:20,073 --> 00:05:42,746\n他比如說有些國家專注於在金融服務業那他的分子當然特別的大但他整個GDP他就占一個最大塊那你用這個來比我覺得是很難假設是一個產業非常非常大的那個國家來比的話那不見得這個比率的上升下跌說不定是我金融業產生但我GDP縮水了那這樣也有這樣的結果但是我覺得應該是金融業應該經濟同步成長就是說我們能至少\n\n16\n00:05:43,046 --> 00:06:00,674\n那以現在台灣的經濟成長你覺得以今年好了以今年台灣經濟成長或過去三年經濟成長你認為應該佔比多少才是一個讓我們台灣的金融行業是一個有足夠競爭力在亞洲我先不講世界先講亞洲好了\n\n17\n00:06:01,574 --> 00:06:16,663\n如果說假定我們的分母是不動的話當然我們的金融業持續成長那個比例就會上升但是我覺得這不太可能這個其實我跟委員報告不是說沒辦法跟你報告這個數字確實這很難用這樣的衡量因為我的分母也會大我的分子也會大\n\n18\n00:06:18,064 --> 00:06:25,872\n對沒關係你有很多衡量的指標跟數字但是我還是希望不管分母是什麼數字是什麼有多少的係數跟風險因素在裡頭我覺得既然我們已經設定目標那就要更清楚的讓我們大家都知道你怎麼去設定那多少其他配合才有機會達到那樣子的目標\n\n19\n00:06:37,625 --> 00:06:45,857\n否則我們今天在這邊排專報或者是你過去說你一直在喊說要成立亞洲的資產管理中心我們擔心就會變成是口號所以具體怎麼去實現它是很重要的那亞洲沒關係\n\n20\n00:06:53,227 --> 00:07:05,743\n亞洲的資產管理中心如何流財引用是非常重要的過去我們就有四支箭如何吸引保險業者投資台灣的公共建設我們都非常清楚台灣的受險業目前的資產規模是32兆\n\n21\n00:07:10,248 --> 00:07:34,285\n海外投資大概佔了45%也就是14.4兆元我們有四支鍵包括你之前提到包括讓我們保險的投資公共建設可以投資公共建設然後我們風險係數要降低包括擴大保險業可以投資公共建設並且納入促參公共建設有四支鍵但是保險業最關心的你也非常清楚就是兩個核心問題\n\n22\n00:07:35,586 --> 00:07:54,571\n有沒有投資標的還有投資的方式是什麼那在投資標的的部分因為對於塑形業來說他一定要賺錢否則很難跟保護交代那所以我們政府如何搭建一個更完整的平台譬如說你的收益率包括風險評估要必須公開包括我們儘管我們要哪些投資標的是要夠他可以看得到你才有辦法留錢留這些錢放在台灣投資嘛\n\n23\n00:08:05,154 --> 00:08:33,442\n那我們現在這樣的平台包括跟國發會有沒有做可不可以做得到那是不是已經上線了既然我們四支箭從去年12月已經喊了那到目前有沒有這樣子的網路相關的資訊資料可以讓壽險業去做完整的評估有沒有是謝委員剛剛提到我稍微提供一下比較新的數字我們大概37兆的資產沒關係數字不重要就是你的投資標的跟投資的方式夠不夠完整\n\n24\n00:08:34,842 --> 00:09:02,430\n剛剛委員的部分就講了就是我們現在在由國發會主政跟財政部跟我們金管會有個兆元投資計畫有個平台那個平台裡面就會揭示我們所有的大概相關比如說我們有跟產業有產業提案還有由政府來提案的部分我們大概就是一個個針對這個案源去做分析看有沒有具有未來商品已經有了是不是已經上網上線公開了那另外一個就是固定收益的部分因為這是受險業者不可能\n\n25\n00:09:03,190 --> 00:09:26,354\n實際下去經營對他來說最簡單的就是一個固定收益的部分所以過去我有提到公共建設證券化的部分其實對於業者來說是比較具有吸引力的那這個部分上次你們說要評估諸位也回應我說要評估那有沒有做有沒有打算做那具體時間大概還要多久現在我們在公建的證券化部分現在走的比較快的是債券化\n\n26\n00:09:27,254 --> 00:09:41,731\n就是發永續債這些東西呢實際上這個債券化是比較快速的而且這邊呢現在成熟度比較高那至於說發行其他的比如說比較偏權益相關的有價證券那個比較複雜這個我們還在繼續努力做我知道比較複雜但是對於業者來說是不是會\n\n27\n00:09:45,976 --> 00:10:03,998\n也一樣有吸引力我覺得雖然比較複雜我們該做還是要去做那當然就是我們要創造萬一創造出來就不符合我們投資人的需要那當然是就比較事倍功半但我們嘗試去尋找跨部會的協商尋找更多可能未來公建的案源\n\n28\n00:10:04,799 --> 00:10:19,439\n是包括主委那我就要請教你就是說我們要留錢留錢放在把這些錢資源資金留在台灣其實很重要的一個因素就是大家會去考量是一個地緣政治的因素\n\n29\n00:10:20,561 --> 00:10:40,843\n投資其實除了會不會獲利之外地緣政治就是一個很好他們也對於投資者來說他也會去做評估包括巴菲特他之前2022年他有台積電ADR但是他持不到一季他就把它賣掉了對他來說他可能損失了將近2000億台幣所以體質包括台積電這麼好的公司\n\n30\n00:10:41,624 --> 00:10:58,037\n巴菲特居然在手持不到一季之後他就把它賣掉所以可見地緣政治他也承認是一個他評估非常重要的一個指標所以國際資本在追求獲利投資回報的同時他同時必須要去兼顧到風險的管控\n\n31\n00:10:59,898 --> 00:11:19,964\n所以在這邊我要再次的提醒主委我們亞洲的資產管理中心能不能成功其實地緣政治也是一個國際資本考慮的一個重要的指標跟方向所以我覺得在這一塊你一定要有機會跟卓院長跟總統反映這件事情\n\n32\n00:11:21,104 --> 00:11:49,858\n我不知道巴菲特有沒有後悔啦我只是說但是就是說我們不會因為有困難而不推我們有我們的優勢我們按照發揮我們的優勢當然我們有我們的優勢但是我們怎麼樣留住國際的資金放在台灣包括國際的資金也都承認我們在地緣政治上確實是一個評估重要的考量所以台灣的地緣政治的穩定度環境的穩定度也是一個國際資本能不能留在台灣重要的指標\n\n33\n00:11:50,598 --> 00:11:50,760\n好吧謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8837\t36380\t慢慢來,喝完水再上來好,我請主委還有國發會的處長好,請主委跟國發會處長邱處長好委員好,謝謝主委好,邱處長好我想先就我們金融併購的問題來跟主委做討論主委我去年七月份的時候我也關注到就是說我們整體台灣的金融業的規模\n38121\t56669\t到底夠不夠大在國際上跟國際型的金控公司相比事實上我們目前在全球的總資產在金控的部分想要排前50名恐怕都有點困難即便是我們台灣目前的國泰金跟富邦金合併才勉強達到我們的最低門檻22.5兆元就是說我們台灣雖然銀行數夠多但是過於零散\n65973\t82407\t那在國際性的大型銀行的部分其實我們這一部分也還沒有辦法達到國際一定的水準所以也就是說我們現在台灣整體的金融業是面臨巨大的挑戰所以我們看到20年前我們欣展銀行在哪裡我們都還看不到\n82827\t104374\t所以我上次才跟您提到說我們如何把世界背所以您上次也跟我回應說我們透過優質的併購也是一個方向還有什麼其他的方式那我們現在我們金融產業我們過去一二十年我們人才都投資到台積電高科技產業去還是傳統產業那我們現在金融產業佔GDP\n110276\t129503\tGDP的比例大概只有維持6%左右我們現在要推亞洲的經營中心資產管理中心到底我們GDP在金融行業占台灣的GDP到底多少你認為才是一個合理的比例是 謝謝委員我想剛剛提到有兩個問題一個就是說\n131764\t158082\t整併是不是未來我們金融業發展的方向特別是我們面對國際競爭的時候我想這個絕對是一個方向之一那對不起那主委我接著問你你上次也提過我也同意因為過於零散怎麼樣更競爭力達到國際的一定的水準跟標準那到底以台灣目前這麼多家多少的數字整併成多少的數字五家七家什麼樣的一個數字才是合理的\n158733\t178860\t其實跟委員報告我研究這個議題超過20年我覺得不可以陷入在數字的迷思因為數字本身會跟相對的不同市場的結構有不同我是覺得應該是這樣數字本身它比如說今天14家15家10幾家這其實重點不在這邊那達到多少的就是說\n179800\t205773\t整併之後達到多少的規模才是你認為是優質的一個合併的方式所謂的優質的整併就是說雙方有共同的目標整併的結果是雙方所有共識而且是朝向一個共同目標那當然就是說規模這件事情要看你要在什麼地方你的主要鎖定你的策略群組的競爭對手是誰\n207734\t223991\t那這不能 假設我今天要打亞洲杯或是打比如本土杯或是當你要進軍到全世界我們現在要打的是世界杯沒有 我覺得世界杯就是一樣我們必須很務實就像我們台灣現在很多的金融特別我們金控公司在亞洲已經開始有它的能見度\n224872\t238919\t但是又說但是我們要先打亞洲盃再打世界盃嗎那如何打到亞洲盃所以你剛剛講了幾個條件我都很清楚優質的合併啦在內部的溝通這個都是基本的ABC這是標準流程我都很清楚\n240900\t257255\t當然診病是一個方向那到底這個金融的產業佔我們GDP的多少你認為才是一個合理的數字我想其實就從整個國際上數字沒有一個所謂的因為這個牽涉到你的分母跟分子的問題當然但是要達到你的目標你覺得多少是一個合理的數字\n257575\t279153\t當然我覺得說以台灣的金融業最近幾年的重要性我當然希望這個比例能夠提升提升到多少?你的目標是多少?因為你過去是教授你一定有這一方面去教導學生那你現在再回到今晚會主委這個位置你總是有一個目標跟想法嘛你不會沒有設定目標嘛你很清楚你現在主委不肯回應我\n280074\t301450\t我不是不會回應 因為我沒有根據的事情我不會隨便的去那目標在哪裡或者是說多少年可以達到你有沒有目標就是說多久之內可以達到那這個數字大概是多少你覺得我們要發展金融管理中心它才是一個有競爭力的管理中心或者一樣又跑到其他國家去我們變成是口號而已啊\n303892\t318261\t因為這是一個分子分母之間的關係至少我們的金融業的成長不應該落後於我們的GDP的成長分母這絕對應該是這樣的但我們比較其他國家很多這個比例來看的話它的產業結構不同\n320073\t342746\t他比如說有些國家專注於在金融服務業那他的分子當然特別的大但他整個GDP他就占一個最大塊那你用這個來比我覺得是很難假設是一個產業非常非常大的那個國家來比的話那不見得這個比率的上升下跌說不定是我金融業產生但我GDP縮水了那這樣也有這樣的結果但是我覺得應該是金融業應該經濟同步成長就是說我們能至少\n343046\t360674\t那以現在台灣的經濟成長你覺得以今年好了以今年台灣經濟成長或過去三年經濟成長你認為應該佔比多少才是一個讓我們台灣的金融行業是一個有足夠競爭力在亞洲我先不講世界先講亞洲好了\n361574\t376663\t如果說假定我們的分母是不動的話當然我們的金融業持續成長那個比例就會上升但是我覺得這不太可能這個其實我跟委員報告不是說沒辦法跟你報告這個數字確實這很難用這樣的衡量因為我的分母也會大我的分子也會大\n378064\t385872\t對 沒關係 你有很多衡量的指標跟數字但是我還是希望不管分母是什麼 數字是什麼有多少的係數跟風險因素在裡頭我覺得既然我們已經設定目標那就要更清楚的讓我們大家都知道你怎麼去設定那多少其他配合才有機會達到那樣子的目標\n397625\t405857\t否則我們今天在這邊排專報或者是你過去說你一直在喊說要成立亞洲的資產管理中心我們擔心就會變成是口號所以具體怎麼去實現它是很重要的那亞洲沒關係\n413227\t425743\t亞洲的資產管理中心如何流財引用是非常重要的過去我們就有四支箭如何吸引保險業者投資台灣的公共建設我們都非常清楚台灣的受險業目前的資產規模是32兆\n430248\t454285\t海外投資大概佔了45%也就是14.4兆元我們有四支鍵包括你之前提到包括讓我們保險的投資公共建設可以投資公共建設然後我們風險係數要降低包括擴大保險業可以投資公共建設並且納入促參公共建設有四支鍵但是保險業最關心的你也非常清楚就是兩個核心問題\n455586\t474571\t有沒有投資標的還有投資的方式是什麼那在投資標的的部分因為對於塑形業來說他一定要賺錢否則很難跟保護交代那所以我們政府如何搭建一個更完整的平台譬如說你的收益率包括風險評估要必須公開包括我們儘管我們要哪些投資標的是要夠他可以看得到你才有辦法留錢留這些錢放在台灣投資嘛\n485154\t513442\t那我們現在這樣的平台包括跟國發會有沒有做可不可以做得到那是不是已經上線了既然我們四支箭從去年12月已經喊了那到目前有沒有這樣子的網路相關的資訊資料可以讓壽險業去做完整的評估有沒有是謝委員剛剛提到我稍微提供一下比較新的數字我們大概37兆的資產沒關係數字不重要就是你的投資標的跟投資的方式夠不夠完整\n514842\t542430\t剛剛委員的部分就講了就是我們現在在由國發會主政跟財政部跟我們金管會有個兆元投資計畫有個平台那個平台裡面就會揭示我們所有的大概相關比如說我們有跟產業有產業提案還有由政府來提案的部分我們大概就是一個個針對這個案源去做分析看有沒有具有未來商品已經有了是不是已經上網上線公開了那另外一個就是固定收益的部分因為這是受險業者不可能\n543190\t566354\t實際下去經營對他來說最簡單的就是一個固定收益的部分所以過去我有提到公共建設證券化的部分其實對於業者來說是比較具有吸引力的那這個部分上次你們說要評估諸位也回應我說要評估那有沒有做有沒有打算做那具體時間大概還要多久現在我們在公建的證券化部分現在走的比較快的是債券化\n567254\t581731\t就是發永續債這些東西呢 實際上這個債券化是比較快速的而且這邊呢 現在成熟度比較高那至於說發行其他的 比如說比較偏權益相關的有價證券那個比較複雜 這個我們還在繼續努力做我知道比較複雜 但是對於業者來說是不是會\n585976\t603998\t也一樣有吸引力我覺得雖然比較複雜我們該做還是要去做那當然就是我們要創造萬一創造出來就不符合我們投資人的需要那當然是就比較事倍功半但我們嘗試去尋找跨部會的協商尋找更多可能未來公建的案源\n604799\t619439\t是 包括 主委那我就要請教你就是說我們要留錢留錢放在把這些錢資源資金留在台灣其實很重要的一個因素就是大家會去考量是一個地緣政治的因素\n620561\t640843\t投資其實除了會不會獲利之外地緣政治就是一個很好他們也對於投資者來說他也會去做評估包括巴菲特他之前2022年他有台積電ADR但是他持不到一季他就把它賣掉了對他來說他可能損失了將近2000億台幣所以體質包括台積電這麼好的公司\n641624\t658037\t巴菲特居然在手持不到一季之後他就把它賣掉所以可見地緣政治他也承認是一個他評估非常重要的一個指標所以國際資本在追求獲利投資回報的同時他同時必須要去兼顧到風險的管控\n659898\t679964\t所以在這邊我要再次的提醒主委我們亞洲的資產管理中心能不能成功其實地緣政治也是一個國際資本考慮的一個重要的指標跟方向所以我覺得在這一塊你一定要有機會跟卓院長跟總統反映這件事情\n681104\t709858\t我不知道巴菲特有沒有後悔啦我只是說但是就是說我們不會因為有困難而不推我們有我們的優勢我們按照發揮我們的優勢當然我們有我們的優勢但是我們怎麼樣留住國際的資金放在台灣包括國際的資金也都承認我們在地緣政治上確實是一個評估重要的考量所以台灣的地緣政治的穩定度環境的穩定度也是一個國際資本能不能留在台灣重要的指標\n710598\t710760\t好吧謝謝\n","txt":"慢慢來,喝完水再上來好,我請主委還有國發會的處長好,請主委跟國發會處長邱處長好委員好,謝謝主委好,邱處長好我想先就我們金融併購的問題來跟主委做討論主委我去年七月份的時候我也關注到就是說我們整體台灣的金融業的規模\n到底夠不夠大在國際上跟國際型的金控公司相比事實上我們目前在全球的總資產在金控的部分想要排前50名恐怕都有點困難即便是我們台灣目前的國泰金跟富邦金合併才勉強達到我們的最低門檻22.5兆元就是說我們台灣雖然銀行數夠多但是過於零散\n那在國際性的大型銀行的部分其實我們這一部分也還沒有辦法達到國際一定的水準所以也就是說我們現在台灣整體的金融業是面臨巨大的挑戰所以我們看到20年前我們欣展銀行在哪裡我們都還看不到\n所以我上次才跟您提到說我們如何把世界背所以您上次也跟我回應說我們透過優質的併購也是一個方向還有什麼其他的方式那我們現在我們金融產業我們過去一二十年我們人才都投資到台積電高科技產業去還是傳統產業那我們現在金融產業佔GDP\nGDP的比例大概只有維持6%左右我們現在要推亞洲的經營中心資產管理中心到底我們GDP在金融行業占台灣的GDP到底多少你認為才是一個合理的比例是 謝謝委員我想剛剛提到有兩個問題一個就是說\n整併是不是未來我們金融業發展的方向特別是我們面對國際競爭的時候我想這個絕對是一個方向之一那對不起那主委我接著問你你上次也提過我也同意因為過於零散怎麼樣更競爭力達到國際的一定的水準跟標準那到底以台灣目前這麼多家多少的數字整併成多少的數字五家七家什麼樣的一個數字才是合理的\n其實跟委員報告我研究這個議題超過20年我覺得不可以陷入在數字的迷思因為數字本身會跟相對的不同市場的結構有不同我是覺得應該是這樣數字本身它比如說今天14家15家10幾家這其實重點不在這邊那達到多少的就是說\n整併之後達到多少的規模才是你認為是優質的一個合併的方式所謂的優質的整併就是說雙方有共同的目標整併的結果是雙方所有共識而且是朝向一個共同目標那當然就是說規模這件事情要看你要在什麼地方你的主要鎖定你的策略群組的競爭對手是誰\n那這不能 假設我今天要打亞洲杯或是打比如本土杯或是當你要進軍到全世界我們現在要打的是世界杯沒有 我覺得世界杯就是一樣我們必須很務實就像我們台灣現在很多的金融特別我們金控公司在亞洲已經開始有它的能見度\n但是又說但是我們要先打亞洲盃再打世界盃嗎那如何打到亞洲盃所以你剛剛講了幾個條件我都很清楚優質的合併啦在內部的溝通這個都是基本的ABC這是標準流程我都很清楚\n當然診病是一個方向那到底這個金融的產業佔我們GDP的多少你認為才是一個合理的數字我想其實就從整個國際上數字沒有一個所謂的因為這個牽涉到你的分母跟分子的問題當然但是要達到你的目標你覺得多少是一個合理的數字\n當然我覺得說以台灣的金融業最近幾年的重要性我當然希望這個比例能夠提升提升到多少?你的目標是多少?因為你過去是教授你一定有這一方面去教導學生那你現在再回到今晚會主委這個位置你總是有一個目標跟想法嘛你不會沒有設定目標嘛你很清楚你現在主委不肯回應我\n我不是不會回應 因為我沒有根據的事情我不會隨便的去那目標在哪裡或者是說多少年可以達到你有沒有目標就是說多久之內可以達到那這個數字大概是多少你覺得我們要發展金融管理中心它才是一個有競爭力的管理中心或者一樣又跑到其他國家去我們變成是口號而已啊\n因為這是一個分子分母之間的關係至少我們的金融業的成長不應該落後於我們的GDP的成長分母這絕對應該是這樣的但我們比較其他國家很多這個比例來看的話它的產業結構不同\n他比如說有些國家專注於在金融服務業那他的分子當然特別的大但他整個GDP他就占一個最大塊那你用這個來比我覺得是很難假設是一個產業非常非常大的那個國家來比的話那不見得這個比率的上升下跌說不定是我金融業產生但我GDP縮水了那這樣也有這樣的結果但是我覺得應該是金融業應該經濟同步成長就是說我們能至少\n那以現在台灣的經濟成長你覺得以今年好了以今年台灣經濟成長或過去三年經濟成長你認為應該佔比多少才是一個讓我們台灣的金融行業是一個有足夠競爭力在亞洲我先不講世界先講亞洲好了\n如果說假定我們的分母是不動的話當然我們的金融業持續成長那個比例就會上升但是我覺得這不太可能這個其實我跟委員報告不是說沒辦法跟你報告這個數字確實這很難用這樣的衡量因為我的分母也會大我的分子也會大\n對 沒關係 你有很多衡量的指標跟數字但是我還是希望不管分母是什麼 數字是什麼有多少的係數跟風險因素在裡頭我覺得既然我們已經設定目標那就要更清楚的讓我們大家都知道你怎麼去設定那多少其他配合才有機會達到那樣子的目標\n否則我們今天在這邊排專報或者是你過去說你一直在喊說要成立亞洲的資產管理中心我們擔心就會變成是口號所以具體怎麼去實現它是很重要的那亞洲沒關係\n亞洲的資產管理中心如何流財引用是非常重要的過去我們就有四支箭如何吸引保險業者投資台灣的公共建設我們都非常清楚台灣的受險業目前的資產規模是32兆\n海外投資大概佔了45%也就是14.4兆元我們有四支鍵包括你之前提到包括讓我們保險的投資公共建設可以投資公共建設然後我們風險係數要降低包括擴大保險業可以投資公共建設並且納入促參公共建設有四支鍵但是保險業最關心的你也非常清楚就是兩個核心問題\n有沒有投資標的還有投資的方式是什麼那在投資標的的部分因為對於塑形業來說他一定要賺錢否則很難跟保護交代那所以我們政府如何搭建一個更完整的平台譬如說你的收益率包括風險評估要必須公開包括我們儘管我們要哪些投資標的是要夠他可以看得到你才有辦法留錢留這些錢放在台灣投資嘛\n那我們現在這樣的平台包括跟國發會有沒有做可不可以做得到那是不是已經上線了既然我們四支箭從去年12月已經喊了那到目前有沒有這樣子的網路相關的資訊資料可以讓壽險業去做完整的評估有沒有是謝委員剛剛提到我稍微提供一下比較新的數字我們大概37兆的資產沒關係數字不重要就是你的投資標的跟投資的方式夠不夠完整\n剛剛委員的部分就講了就是我們現在在由國發會主政跟財政部跟我們金管會有個兆元投資計畫有個平台那個平台裡面就會揭示我們所有的大概相關比如說我們有跟產業有產業提案還有由政府來提案的部分我們大概就是一個個針對這個案源去做分析看有沒有具有未來商品已經有了是不是已經上網上線公開了那另外一個就是固定收益的部分因為這是受險業者不可能\n實際下去經營對他來說最簡單的就是一個固定收益的部分所以過去我有提到公共建設證券化的部分其實對於業者來說是比較具有吸引力的那這個部分上次你們說要評估諸位也回應我說要評估那有沒有做有沒有打算做那具體時間大概還要多久現在我們在公建的證券化部分現在走的比較快的是債券化\n就是發永續債這些東西呢 實際上這個債券化是比較快速的而且這邊呢 現在成熟度比較高那至於說發行其他的 比如說比較偏權益相關的有價證券那個比較複雜 這個我們還在繼續努力做我知道比較複雜 但是對於業者來說是不是會\n也一樣有吸引力我覺得雖然比較複雜我們該做還是要去做那當然就是我們要創造萬一創造出來就不符合我們投資人的需要那當然是就比較事倍功半但我們嘗試去尋找跨部會的協商尋找更多可能未來公建的案源\n是 包括 主委那我就要請教你就是說我們要留錢留錢放在把這些錢資源資金留在台灣其實很重要的一個因素就是大家會去考量是一個地緣政治的因素\n投資其實除了會不會獲利之外地緣政治就是一個很好他們也對於投資者來說他也會去做評估包括巴菲特他之前2022年他有台積電ADR但是他持不到一季他就把它賣掉了對他來說他可能損失了將近2000億台幣所以體質包括台積電這麼好的公司\n巴菲特居然在手持不到一季之後他就把它賣掉所以可見地緣政治他也承認是一個他評估非常重要的一個指標所以國際資本在追求獲利投資回報的同時他同時必須要去兼顧到風險的管控\n所以在這邊我要再次的提醒主委我們亞洲的資產管理中心能不能成功其實地緣政治也是一個國際資本考慮的一個重要的指標跟方向所以我覺得在這一塊你一定要有機會跟卓院長跟總統反映這件事情\n我不知道巴菲特有沒有後悔啦我只是說但是就是說我們不會因為有困難而不推我們有我們的優勢我們按照發揮我們的優勢當然我們有我們的優勢但是我們怎麼樣留住國際的資金放在台灣包括國際的資金也都承認我們在地緣政治上確實是一個評估重要的考量所以台灣的地緣政治的穩定度環境的穩定度也是一個國際資本能不能留在台灣重要的指標\n好吧謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.837 --> 00:36.380\n慢慢來,喝完水再上來好,我請主委還有國發會的處長好,請主委跟國發會處長邱處長好委員好,謝謝主委好,邱處長好我想先就我們金融併購的問題來跟主委做討論主委我去年七月份的時候我也關注到就是說我們整體台灣的金融業的規模\n\n00:38.121 --> 00:56.669\n到底夠不夠大在國際上跟國際型的金控公司相比事實上我們目前在全球的總資產在金控的部分想要排前50名恐怕都有點困難即便是我們台灣目前的國泰金跟富邦金合併才勉強達到我們的最低門檻22.5兆元就是說我們台灣雖然銀行數夠多但是過於零散\n\n01:05.973 --> 01:22.407\n那在國際性的大型銀行的部分其實我們這一部分也還沒有辦法達到國際一定的水準所以也就是說我們現在台灣整體的金融業是面臨巨大的挑戰所以我們看到20年前我們欣展銀行在哪裡我們都還看不到\n\n01:22.827 --> 01:44.374\n所以我上次才跟您提到說我們如何把世界背所以您上次也跟我回應說我們透過優質的併購也是一個方向還有什麼其他的方式那我們現在我們金融產業我們過去一二十年我們人才都投資到台積電高科技產業去還是傳統產業那我們現在金融產業佔GDP\n\n01:50.276 --> 02:09.503\nGDP的比例大概只有維持6%左右我們現在要推亞洲的經營中心資產管理中心到底我們GDP在金融行業占台灣的GDP到底多少你認為才是一個合理的比例是謝謝委員我想剛剛提到有兩個問題一個就是說\n\n02:11.764 --> 02:38.082\n整併是不是未來我們金融業發展的方向特別是我們面對國際競爭的時候我想這個絕對是一個方向之一那對不起那主委我接著問你你上次也提過我也同意因為過於零散怎麼樣更競爭力達到國際的一定的水準跟標準那到底以台灣目前這麼多家多少的數字整併成多少的數字五家七家什麼樣的一個數字才是合理的\n\n02:38.733 --> 02:58.860\n其實跟委員報告我研究這個議題超過20年我覺得不可以陷入在數字的迷思因為數字本身會跟相對的不同市場的結構有不同我是覺得應該是這樣數字本身它比如說今天14家15家10幾家這其實重點不在這邊那達到多少的就是說\n\n02:59.800 --> 03:25.773\n整併之後達到多少的規模才是你認為是優質的一個合併的方式所謂的優質的整併就是說雙方有共同的目標整併的結果是雙方所有共識而且是朝向一個共同目標那當然就是說規模這件事情要看你要在什麼地方你的主要鎖定你的策略群組的競爭對手是誰\n\n03:27.734 --> 03:43.991\n那這不能假設我今天要打亞洲杯或是打比如本土杯或是當你要進軍到全世界我們現在要打的是世界杯沒有我覺得世界杯就是一樣我們必須很務實就像我們台灣現在很多的金融特別我們金控公司在亞洲已經開始有它的能見度\n\n03:44.872 --> 03:58.919\n但是又說但是我們要先打亞洲盃再打世界盃嗎那如何打到亞洲盃所以你剛剛講了幾個條件我都很清楚優質的合併啦在內部的溝通這個都是基本的ABC這是標準流程我都很清楚\n\n04:00.900 --> 04:17.255\n當然診病是一個方向那到底這個金融的產業佔我們GDP的多少你認為才是一個合理的數字我想其實就從整個國際上數字沒有一個所謂的因為這個牽涉到你的分母跟分子的問題當然但是要達到你的目標你覺得多少是一個合理的數字\n\n04:17.575 --> 04:39.153\n當然我覺得說以台灣的金融業最近幾年的重要性我當然希望這個比例能夠提升提升到多少?你的目標是多少?因為你過去是教授你一定有這一方面去教導學生那你現在再回到今晚會主委這個位置你總是有一個目標跟想法嘛你不會沒有設定目標嘛你很清楚你現在主委不肯回應我\n\n04:40.074 --> 05:01.450\n我不是不會回應因為我沒有根據的事情我不會隨便的去那目標在哪裡或者是說多少年可以達到你有沒有目標就是說多久之內可以達到那這個數字大概是多少你覺得我們要發展金融管理中心它才是一個有競爭力的管理中心或者一樣又跑到其他國家去我們變成是口號而已啊\n\n05:03.892 --> 05:18.261\n因為這是一個分子分母之間的關係至少我們的金融業的成長不應該落後於我們的GDP的成長分母這絕對應該是這樣的但我們比較其他國家很多這個比例來看的話它的產業結構不同\n\n05:20.073 --> 05:42.746\n他比如說有些國家專注於在金融服務業那他的分子當然特別的大但他整個GDP他就占一個最大塊那你用這個來比我覺得是很難假設是一個產業非常非常大的那個國家來比的話那不見得這個比率的上升下跌說不定是我金融業產生但我GDP縮水了那這樣也有這樣的結果但是我覺得應該是金融業應該經濟同步成長就是說我們能至少\n\n05:43.046 --> 06:00.674\n那以現在台灣的經濟成長你覺得以今年好了以今年台灣經濟成長或過去三年經濟成長你認為應該佔比多少才是一個讓我們台灣的金融行業是一個有足夠競爭力在亞洲我先不講世界先講亞洲好了\n\n06:01.574 --> 06:16.663\n如果說假定我們的分母是不動的話當然我們的金融業持續成長那個比例就會上升但是我覺得這不太可能這個其實我跟委員報告不是說沒辦法跟你報告這個數字確實這很難用這樣的衡量因為我的分母也會大我的分子也會大\n\n06:18.064 --> 06:25.872\n對沒關係你有很多衡量的指標跟數字但是我還是希望不管分母是什麼數字是什麼有多少的係數跟風險因素在裡頭我覺得既然我們已經設定目標那就要更清楚的讓我們大家都知道你怎麼去設定那多少其他配合才有機會達到那樣子的目標\n\n06:37.625 --> 06:45.857\n否則我們今天在這邊排專報或者是你過去說你一直在喊說要成立亞洲的資產管理中心我們擔心就會變成是口號所以具體怎麼去實現它是很重要的那亞洲沒關係\n\n06:53.227 --> 07:05.743\n亞洲的資產管理中心如何流財引用是非常重要的過去我們就有四支箭如何吸引保險業者投資台灣的公共建設我們都非常清楚台灣的受險業目前的資產規模是32兆\n\n07:10.248 --> 07:34.285\n海外投資大概佔了45%也就是14.4兆元我們有四支鍵包括你之前提到包括讓我們保險的投資公共建設可以投資公共建設然後我們風險係數要降低包括擴大保險業可以投資公共建設並且納入促參公共建設有四支鍵但是保險業最關心的你也非常清楚就是兩個核心問題\n\n07:35.586 --> 07:54.571\n有沒有投資標的還有投資的方式是什麼那在投資標的的部分因為對於塑形業來說他一定要賺錢否則很難跟保護交代那所以我們政府如何搭建一個更完整的平台譬如說你的收益率包括風險評估要必須公開包括我們儘管我們要哪些投資標的是要夠他可以看得到你才有辦法留錢留這些錢放在台灣投資嘛\n\n08:05.154 --> 08:33.442\n那我們現在這樣的平台包括跟國發會有沒有做可不可以做得到那是不是已經上線了既然我們四支箭從去年12月已經喊了那到目前有沒有這樣子的網路相關的資訊資料可以讓壽險業去做完整的評估有沒有是謝委員剛剛提到我稍微提供一下比較新的數字我們大概37兆的資產沒關係數字不重要就是你的投資標的跟投資的方式夠不夠完整\n\n08:34.842 --> 09:02.430\n剛剛委員的部分就講了就是我們現在在由國發會主政跟財政部跟我們金管會有個兆元投資計畫有個平台那個平台裡面就會揭示我們所有的大概相關比如說我們有跟產業有產業提案還有由政府來提案的部分我們大概就是一個個針對這個案源去做分析看有沒有具有未來商品已經有了是不是已經上網上線公開了那另外一個就是固定收益的部分因為這是受險業者不可能\n\n09:03.190 --> 09:26.354\n實際下去經營對他來說最簡單的就是一個固定收益的部分所以過去我有提到公共建設證券化的部分其實對於業者來說是比較具有吸引力的那這個部分上次你們說要評估諸位也回應我說要評估那有沒有做有沒有打算做那具體時間大概還要多久現在我們在公建的證券化部分現在走的比較快的是債券化\n\n09:27.254 --> 09:41.731\n就是發永續債這些東西呢實際上這個債券化是比較快速的而且這邊呢現在成熟度比較高那至於說發行其他的比如說比較偏權益相關的有價證券那個比較複雜這個我們還在繼續努力做我知道比較複雜但是對於業者來說是不是會\n\n09:45.976 --> 10:03.998\n也一樣有吸引力我覺得雖然比較複雜我們該做還是要去做那當然就是我們要創造萬一創造出來就不符合我們投資人的需要那當然是就比較事倍功半但我們嘗試去尋找跨部會的協商尋找更多可能未來公建的案源\n\n10:04.799 --> 10:19.439\n是包括主委那我就要請教你就是說我們要留錢留錢放在把這些錢資源資金留在台灣其實很重要的一個因素就是大家會去考量是一個地緣政治的因素\n\n10:20.561 --> 10:40.843\n投資其實除了會不會獲利之外地緣政治就是一個很好他們也對於投資者來說他也會去做評估包括巴菲特他之前2022年他有台積電ADR但是他持不到一季他就把它賣掉了對他來說他可能損失了將近2000億台幣所以體質包括台積電這麼好的公司\n\n10:41.624 --> 10:58.037\n巴菲特居然在手持不到一季之後他就把它賣掉所以可見地緣政治他也承認是一個他評估非常重要的一個指標所以國際資本在追求獲利投資回報的同時他同時必須要去兼顧到風險的管控\n\n10:59.898 --> 11:19.964\n所以在這邊我要再次的提醒主委我們亞洲的資產管理中心能不能成功其實地緣政治也是一個國際資本考慮的一個重要的指標跟方向所以我覺得在這一塊你一定要有機會跟卓院長跟總統反映這件事情\n\n11:21.104 --> 11:49.858\n我不知道巴菲特有沒有後悔啦我只是說但是就是說我們不會因為有困難而不推我們有我們的優勢我們按照發揮我們的優勢當然我們有我們的優勢但是我們怎麼樣留住國際的資金放在台灣包括國際的資金也都承認我們在地緣政治上確實是一個評估重要的考量所以台灣的地緣政治的穩定度環境的穩定度也是一個國際資本能不能留在台灣重要的指標\n\n11:50.598 --> 11:50.760\n好吧謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.837,"end":36.38,"text":"慢慢來,喝完水再上來好,我請主委還有國發會的處長好,請主委跟國發會處長邱處長好委員好,謝謝主委好,邱處長好我想先就我們金融併購的問題來跟主委做討論主委我去年七月份的時候我也關注到就是說我們整體台灣的金融業的規模"},{"start":38.121,"end":56.669,"text":"到底夠不夠大在國際上跟國際型的金控公司相比事實上我們目前在全球的總資產在金控的部分想要排前50名恐怕都有點困難即便是我們台灣目前的國泰金跟富邦金合併才勉強達到我們的最低門檻22.5兆元就是說我們台灣雖然銀行數夠多但是過於零散"},{"start":65.973,"end":82.407,"text":"那在國際性的大型銀行的部分其實我們這一部分也還沒有辦法達到國際一定的水準所以也就是說我們現在台灣整體的金融業是面臨巨大的挑戰所以我們看到20年前我們欣展銀行在哪裡我們都還看不到"},{"start":82.827,"end":104.374,"text":"所以我上次才跟您提到說我們如何把世界背所以您上次也跟我回應說我們透過優質的併購也是一個方向還有什麼其他的方式那我們現在我們金融產業我們過去一二十年我們人才都投資到台積電高科技產業去還是傳統產業那我們現在金融產業佔GDP"},{"start":110.276,"end":129.503,"text":"GDP的比例大概只有維持6%左右我們現在要推亞洲的經營中心資產管理中心到底我們GDP在金融行業占台灣的GDP到底多少你認為才是一個合理的比例是 謝謝委員我想剛剛提到有兩個問題一個就是說"},{"start":131.764,"end":158.082,"text":"整併是不是未來我們金融業發展的方向特別是我們面對國際競爭的時候我想這個絕對是一個方向之一那對不起那主委我接著問你你上次也提過我也同意因為過於零散怎麼樣更競爭力達到國際的一定的水準跟標準那到底以台灣目前這麼多家多少的數字整併成多少的數字五家七家什麼樣的一個數字才是合理的"},{"start":158.733,"end":178.86,"text":"其實跟委員報告我研究這個議題超過20年我覺得不可以陷入在數字的迷思因為數字本身會跟相對的不同市場的結構有不同我是覺得應該是這樣數字本身它比如說今天14家15家10幾家這其實重點不在這邊那達到多少的就是說"},{"start":179.8,"end":205.773,"text":"整併之後達到多少的規模才是你認為是優質的一個合併的方式所謂的優質的整併就是說雙方有共同的目標整併的結果是雙方所有共識而且是朝向一個共同目標那當然就是說規模這件事情要看你要在什麼地方你的主要鎖定你的策略群組的競爭對手是誰"},{"start":207.734,"end":223.991,"text":"那這不能 假設我今天要打亞洲杯或是打比如本土杯或是當你要進軍到全世界我們現在要打的是世界杯沒有 我覺得世界杯就是一樣我們必須很務實就像我們台灣現在很多的金融特別我們金控公司在亞洲已經開始有它的能見度"},{"start":224.872,"end":238.919,"text":"但是又說但是我們要先打亞洲盃再打世界盃嗎那如何打到亞洲盃所以你剛剛講了幾個條件我都很清楚優質的合併啦在內部的溝通這個都是基本的ABC這是標準流程我都很清楚"},{"start":240.9,"end":257.255,"text":"當然診病是一個方向那到底這個金融的產業佔我們GDP的多少你認為才是一個合理的數字我想其實就從整個國際上數字沒有一個所謂的因為這個牽涉到你的分母跟分子的問題當然但是要達到你的目標你覺得多少是一個合理的數字"},{"start":257.575,"end":279.153,"text":"當然我覺得說以台灣的金融業最近幾年的重要性我當然希望這個比例能夠提升提升到多少?你的目標是多少?因為你過去是教授你一定有這一方面去教導學生那你現在再回到今晚會主委這個位置你總是有一個目標跟想法嘛你不會沒有設定目標嘛你很清楚你現在主委不肯回應我"},{"start":280.074,"end":301.45,"text":"我不是不會回應 因為我沒有根據的事情我不會隨便的去那目標在哪裡或者是說多少年可以達到你有沒有目標就是說多久之內可以達到那這個數字大概是多少你覺得我們要發展金融管理中心它才是一個有競爭力的管理中心或者一樣又跑到其他國家去我們變成是口號而已啊"},{"start":303.892,"end":318.261,"text":"因為這是一個分子分母之間的關係至少我們的金融業的成長不應該落後於我們的GDP的成長分母這絕對應該是這樣的但我們比較其他國家很多這個比例來看的話它的產業結構不同"},{"start":320.073,"end":342.746,"text":"他比如說有些國家專注於在金融服務業那他的分子當然特別的大但他整個GDP他就占一個最大塊那你用這個來比我覺得是很難假設是一個產業非常非常大的那個國家來比的話那不見得這個比率的上升下跌說不定是我金融業產生但我GDP縮水了那這樣也有這樣的結果但是我覺得應該是金融業應該經濟同步成長就是說我們能至少"},{"start":343.046,"end":360.674,"text":"那以現在台灣的經濟成長你覺得以今年好了以今年台灣經濟成長或過去三年經濟成長你認為應該佔比多少才是一個讓我們台灣的金融行業是一個有足夠競爭力在亞洲我先不講世界先講亞洲好了"},{"start":361.574,"end":376.663,"text":"如果說假定我們的分母是不動的話當然我們的金融業持續成長那個比例就會上升但是我覺得這不太可能這個其實我跟委員報告不是說沒辦法跟你報告這個數字確實這很難用這樣的衡量因為我的分母也會大我的分子也會大"},{"start":378.064,"end":385.872,"text":"對 沒關係 你有很多衡量的指標跟數字但是我還是希望不管分母是什麼 數字是什麼有多少的係數跟風險因素在裡頭我覺得既然我們已經設定目標那就要更清楚的讓我們大家都知道你怎麼去設定那多少其他配合才有機會達到那樣子的目標"},{"start":397.625,"end":405.857,"text":"否則我們今天在這邊排專報或者是你過去說你一直在喊說要成立亞洲的資產管理中心我們擔心就會變成是口號所以具體怎麼去實現它是很重要的那亞洲沒關係"},{"start":413.227,"end":425.743,"text":"亞洲的資產管理中心如何流財引用是非常重要的過去我們就有四支箭如何吸引保險業者投資台灣的公共建設我們都非常清楚台灣的受險業目前的資產規模是32兆"},{"start":430.248,"end":454.285,"text":"海外投資大概佔了45%也就是14.4兆元我們有四支鍵包括你之前提到包括讓我們保險的投資公共建設可以投資公共建設然後我們風險係數要降低包括擴大保險業可以投資公共建設並且納入促參公共建設有四支鍵但是保險業最關心的你也非常清楚就是兩個核心問題"},{"start":455.586,"end":474.571,"text":"有沒有投資標的還有投資的方式是什麼那在投資標的的部分因為對於塑形業來說他一定要賺錢否則很難跟保護交代那所以我們政府如何搭建一個更完整的平台譬如說你的收益率包括風險評估要必須公開包括我們儘管我們要哪些投資標的是要夠他可以看得到你才有辦法留錢留這些錢放在台灣投資嘛"},{"start":485.154,"end":513.442,"text":"那我們現在這樣的平台包括跟國發會有沒有做可不可以做得到那是不是已經上線了既然我們四支箭從去年12月已經喊了那到目前有沒有這樣子的網路相關的資訊資料可以讓壽險業去做完整的評估有沒有是謝委員剛剛提到我稍微提供一下比較新的數字我們大概37兆的資產沒關係數字不重要就是你的投資標的跟投資的方式夠不夠完整"},{"start":514.842,"end":542.43,"text":"剛剛委員的部分就講了就是我們現在在由國發會主政跟財政部跟我們金管會有個兆元投資計畫有個平台那個平台裡面就會揭示我們所有的大概相關比如說我們有跟產業有產業提案還有由政府來提案的部分我們大概就是一個個針對這個案源去做分析看有沒有具有未來商品已經有了是不是已經上網上線公開了那另外一個就是固定收益的部分因為這是受險業者不可能"},{"start":543.19,"end":566.354,"text":"實際下去經營對他來說最簡單的就是一個固定收益的部分所以過去我有提到公共建設證券化的部分其實對於業者來說是比較具有吸引力的那這個部分上次你們說要評估諸位也回應我說要評估那有沒有做有沒有打算做那具體時間大概還要多久現在我們在公建的證券化部分現在走的比較快的是債券化"},{"start":567.254,"end":581.731,"text":"就是發永續債這些東西呢 實際上這個債券化是比較快速的而且這邊呢 現在成熟度比較高那至於說發行其他的 比如說比較偏權益相關的有價證券那個比較複雜 這個我們還在繼續努力做我知道比較複雜 但是對於業者來說是不是會"},{"start":585.976,"end":603.998,"text":"也一樣有吸引力我覺得雖然比較複雜我們該做還是要去做那當然就是我們要創造萬一創造出來就不符合我們投資人的需要那當然是就比較事倍功半但我們嘗試去尋找跨部會的協商尋找更多可能未來公建的案源"},{"start":604.799,"end":619.439,"text":"是 包括 主委那我就要請教你就是說我們要留錢留錢放在把這些錢資源資金留在台灣其實很重要的一個因素就是大家會去考量是一個地緣政治的因素"},{"start":620.561,"end":640.843,"text":"投資其實除了會不會獲利之外地緣政治就是一個很好他們也對於投資者來說他也會去做評估包括巴菲特他之前2022年他有台積電ADR但是他持不到一季他就把它賣掉了對他來說他可能損失了將近2000億台幣所以體質包括台積電這麼好的公司"},{"start":641.624,"end":658.037,"text":"巴菲特居然在手持不到一季之後他就把它賣掉所以可見地緣政治他也承認是一個他評估非常重要的一個指標所以國際資本在追求獲利投資回報的同時他同時必須要去兼顧到風險的管控"},{"start":659.898,"end":679.964,"text":"所以在這邊我要再次的提醒主委我們亞洲的資產管理中心能不能成功其實地緣政治也是一個國際資本考慮的一個重要的指標跟方向所以我覺得在這一塊你一定要有機會跟卓院長跟總統反映這件事情"},{"start":681.104,"end":709.858,"text":"我不知道巴菲特有沒有後悔啦我只是說但是就是說我們不會因為有困難而不推我們有我們的優勢我們按照發揮我們的優勢當然我們有我們的優勢但是我們怎麼樣留住國際的資金放在台灣包括國際的資金也都承認我們在地緣政治上確實是一個評估重要的考量所以台灣的地緣政治的穩定度環境的穩定度也是一個國際資本能不能留在台灣重要的指標"},{"start":710.598,"end":710.76,"text":"好吧謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":893,"blocks":[["李委員彥秀：（11時26分）慢慢來，喝完水再上。好，我請主委還有國發會的處長。"],["主席：好，請主委跟國發會處長。"],["李委員彥秀：今天處長是？"],["主席：邱處長。"],["李委員彥秀：邱處長，好。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員好，謝謝。"],["李委員彥秀：主委好、邱處長好。我想先就金融併購的問題來跟主委做討論，主委，我去年7月份的時候，我有關注到我們整體臺灣的金融業的規模到底夠不夠大，在國際上跟國際型的金控公司相比，事實上我們目前在全球的總資產，在金控的部分想要排前50名恐怕都有一點困難，即便是我們臺灣目前的國泰金跟富邦金合併才勉強達到我們的最低門檻22.5兆元，就是說我們臺灣雖然銀行數夠多，但是過於零散，在國際性的大型銀行的部分，其實我們這一部分也還沒有辦法達到國際一定的水準，所以也就是說，我們現在臺灣整體的金融業是面臨巨大的挑戰，所以我們看到20年前星展銀行在哪裡，我們都還看不到，所以我上次才跟您提到說我們如何打世界盃，您上次也跟我回應說我們透過優質的併購也是一個方向，還有什麼其他的方式。我們現在金融產業，過去一、二十年，我們人才都投資到台積電高科技產業去，還有就是傳統產業，我們現在金融產業占GDP的比例大概只有維持6%左右，我們現在要推亞洲的金融中心、資產管理中心，到底我們金融行業占臺灣的GDP多少，你認為才是一個合理的比例？"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，謝謝委員，我想剛剛提到有兩個問題，一個就是說整併是不是未來我們金融業發展的方向，特別是我們面對國際競爭的時候，我想這個絕對是一個方向之一，當我們要……"],["李委員彥秀：對不起，那主委我接著問你，你上次也提過，我也同意，因為過於零散，怎麼樣更競爭力，達到國際一定的水準跟標準，到底以臺灣目前這麼多家，多少的數字整併成多少的數字，5家、7家，什麼樣的一個數字才是合理的？"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實跟委員報告，我研究這議題超過20年，我覺得不可以陷入在數字的迷思，因為數字本身會跟相對的不同市場的結構而有不同，我是覺得應該是這樣，數字本身它比如說今天14家、15家、十幾家，這其實重點不在這邊……"],["李委員彥秀：那整併之後達到多少的規模才是你認為優質的合併方式？"],["彭主任委員金隆：所謂的優質整併就是說雙方有共同的目標……"],["李委員彥秀：這個我知道，因為我今天很多議題要請問主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，我知道，整併的結果是雙方有共識而且是朝向一個目標。"],["李委員彥秀：這個我知道。"],["彭主任委員金隆：那當然就是說，規模這件事情要看你要在什麼地方，你主要鎖定的策略群組的競爭對手是誰？這部分假設我今天要打亞洲盃或是打比如說本土盃，或是當你要進軍全世界……"],["李委員彥秀：我們現在要打的是世界盃。"],["彭主任委員金隆：沒有，我覺得世界盃就是……一樣我們必須很務實，就像我們臺灣現在很多的金融，特別我們金控公司在亞洲已經開始有它的能見度，對不對？但是就是說……"],["李委員彥秀：但是我們要先打亞洲盃，再打世界盃，那如何打到亞洲盃？所以你剛剛講的幾個條件我都很清楚，優質的合併、內部的溝通等都是基本的A、B、C，這是標準流程，我都很清楚。當然整併是一個方向，到底金融產業占我們GDP多少你認為才是合理的數字？"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實就從整個國際上，數字沒有所謂的……因為這個牽涉到你的分母跟分子的問題。"],["李委員彥秀：當然，但是要達到你的目標，你覺得多少是一個合理的數字？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我覺得以臺灣金融業最近幾年的重要性，我當然希望這個比例能夠提升。但是……"],["李委員彥秀：提升到多少？你的目標是多少？"],["彭主任委員金隆：但是假設……"],["李委員彥秀：因為你過去是教授，你一定在這一方面有教導學生，那你現在再回到金管會主委這個位置，你總是有一個目標跟想法嘛！你不會沒有設定目標，你很清楚，只是現在主委不肯回應我。"],["彭主任委員金隆：不是，我不是不回應，因為沒有根據的事情，我不會隨便地講。"],["李委員彥秀：那目標在哪裡，或者說多少年可以達到？你有沒有目標就是說多久之內可以達到？這個數字大概是多少，你覺得我們要發展金融管理中心才是一個有競爭力的管理中心？否則一樣又跑到其他國家去，我們變成是口號而已。"],["彭主任委員金隆：我覺得因為這是一個分子、分母之間的關係，至少我們金融業的成長不應該落後於我們GDP的成長分母，絕對應該是這樣的。但是比如說我們比較其他國家的很多比例來看的話，它的產業結構不同，對不對？比如說有些國家專注在金融服務業，它的分子當然特別的大，它整個GDP就占最大塊，那你用這個來比，我覺得很難，假設一個產業非常非常大的國家來比的話，不見得這個比例的上升、下跌，說不定是我的金融業上升，但是我的GDP縮水了，也有這樣的結果，所以我覺得金融業應該與經濟同步成長，就是說我們至少……"],["李委員彥秀：以現在臺灣的經濟成長，以今年好了，以今年臺灣經濟成長或過去三年經濟成長，你認為應該占比多少才是讓臺灣的金融行業有足夠競爭力，在亞洲好了，我先不講世界，先講亞洲好了。"],["彭主任委員金隆：如果說假定我們的分母是不動的話，當然我們的金融業持續成長，那個比例就會上升，但是我覺得這不太可能。"],["李委員彥秀：多少？"],["彭主任委員金隆：沒有，其實我跟委員報告，不是說我沒辦法跟你報告這數字，確實這很難用這樣衡量，因為我的分母會大，分子也會大，實際上會有個相對的關係。"],["李委員彥秀：不過，主委，沒關係，你有很多衡量的指標跟數字，但是我還是希望不管分母是什麼、數字是什麼，有多少的係數跟風險因素在裡頭，我覺得既然我們已經設定目標，那就要更清楚地讓我們大家都知道你怎麼去設定，其他要配合多少才有機會達到那樣的目標，否則我們今天在這邊排專報或者是你過去一直喊說要成立亞洲資產管理中心，我們擔心就會變成口號，所以具體怎麼實現它是很重要的。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，確實我們在……"],["李委員彥秀：沒關係，主委，亞洲資產管理中心如何留才引資是非常重要的，過去我們就有4支箭，如何吸引保險業者投資臺灣的公共建設，我們都非常清楚臺灣的壽險業目前的資產規模是32兆，海外投資大概占了45%，也就是14.4兆元，那我們有4支箭，你之前提到包括讓我們保險投資可以投資公共建設，然後風險係數要降低，包括擴大保險業可以投資公共建設並且納入促參公共建設，有4支箭，但是保險業最關心的，你也非常清楚，就是兩個核心問題，有沒有投資標的，還有投資的方式是什麼？在投資標的的部分，因為對於壽險業來說，它一定要賺錢，否則很難跟保戶交代。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是的。"],["李委員彥秀：所以政府如何搭建一個更完整的平臺，譬如說，你的收益率包括風險評估必須要公開，包括有哪些投資標的要夠它可以看得到，你才有辦法留這些錢放在臺灣投資，那現在這樣的平臺，包括國發會有沒有做、可不可以做得到？是不是已經上線了？既然我們4支箭從去年12月已經喊了，到目前網路上有沒有這樣子的相關資訊、資料，可以讓壽險業去做完整的評估，有沒有？"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員。剛剛提到的，我稍微提供比較新的數字，我們大概37兆的資產……"],["李委員彥秀：沒關係，數字不重要，就是你的投資標的跟投資的方式夠不夠完整？"],["彭主任委員金隆：剛剛委員講的就是我們現在由國發會主政，與財政部、金管會有個兆元投資計畫、有個平臺，那個平臺裡面就會揭示所有的，比如說有產業的提案，還有由政府來提案的部分，我們大概就是一個個針對案源去做分析，看有沒有具有未來……"],["李委員彥秀：已經有了是不是？已經上網、上線公開了？"],["彭主任委員金隆：有，有這個平臺。"],["李委員彥秀：好，另外一個就是固定收益的部分，因為這些壽險業者不可能實際下去經營，對他來說最簡單的就是固定收益的部分，所以過去我有提到公共建設證券化的部分，其實對於業者來說是比較具有吸引力的，這個部分上次你們說要評估，主委也回應我說要評估，有沒有做？有沒有打算做？具體的時間大概還要多久？"],["彭主任委員金隆：現在我們在公建證券化的部分，走得比較快的是債券化，就是發永續債，這些實際上債券化是比較快速的，而且這邊現在成熟度比較高。至於說發行其他的，比如說比較偏權益相關的有價證券，那個比較複雜，我們還在繼續努力當中。"],["李委員彥秀：我知道比較複雜，但是對於業者來說是不是也一樣會有吸引力？我覺得雖然比較複雜，該做的還是要去做。"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然就是我們要創造，萬一創造出來不符合投資人的需要，當然是比較事倍功半，但是我們嘗試去尋找跨部會的協商，尋找更多未來可能的公建案源。"],["李委員彥秀：是，主委，我就要請教你，我們要留錢，把這些錢、資源、資金留在臺灣，其實很重要的一個因素就是大家會考量地緣政治的因素。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是的。"],["李委員彥秀：投資其實除了會不會獲利之外，地緣政治對於投資者來說，他也會去做評估，包括巴菲特，之前2022年他有台積電ADR，但是他持不到一季就把它賣掉了，對他來說，他可能損失了將近兩千億臺幣，所以包括台積電體質這麼好的公司，巴菲特居然在手持一季之後，他就把它賣掉。所以可見地緣政治他也承認是一個他評估非常重要的指標，國際資本在追求獲利、投資回報的同時，他必須要兼顧到風險的管控。所以在這邊我要再次的提醒主委，我們亞洲資產管理中心能不能成功，其實地緣政治也是國際資本考慮的一個重要指標跟方向。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是。"],["李委員彥秀：我覺得在這一塊你一定要有機會跟卓院長、跟總統反映這件事情。"],["彭主任委員金隆：我不知道巴菲特有沒有後悔，我們不會因為有困難而不推，我們有我們的優勢，我們會發揮我們的優勢。"],["李委員彥秀：當然我們有我們的優勢，但是我們怎麼樣留住國際資金放在臺灣，包括國際資金也都承認我們在地緣政治上……"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，也是強化我們的安全性。"],["李委員彥秀：確實是一個評估重要的考量。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝。"],["李委員彥秀：所以臺灣地緣政治的穩定度、環境的穩定度也是國際資本能不能留在臺灣的重要指標，好不好？謝謝。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝彥秀。","接著請黃珊珊委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":284,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-20-6","speakers":["賴惠員","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","陳玉珍","顏寬恒","鍾佳濱","羅明才","李坤城","李彥秀","黃珊珊","楊瓊瓔","王鴻薇","林思銘","王世堅"],"page_start":227,"meetingDate":["2025-03-31"],"gazette_id":"1143301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143301_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆、財政部、中央銀行、國家發展委員會及法務部就「如\n何促進台灣金融市場規模發展之執行策略（包括國際金融業務 OBU，國際保險業務 OIU，國際證\n券業務 OSU）」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143301_00004"}}}