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\"席\", \"start\": 749.632, \"end\": 749.712, \"score\": 0.757}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 749.712, \"end\": 749.872, \"score\": 0.754}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 749.872, \"end\": 750.072, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 750.072, \"end\": 750.272, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"楚\", \"start\": 750.272, \"end\": 750.452, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 750.452, \"end\": 750.552, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 750.552, \"end\": 751.012, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 751.012, \"end\": 751.272, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 751.272, \"end\": 751.372, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 751.372, \"end\": 751.753, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 751.753, \"end\": 752.073, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 752.073, \"end\": 752.253, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 752.253, \"end\": 752.373, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 752.373, \"end\": 752.393, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,888 --> 00:00:07,870\n謝主席我想請一下賴長賜謝謝賴市長好委員好\n\n2\n00:00:18,607 --> 00:00:37,655\n次長好謝謝主席今天特別安排一個防洪抗旱的一個計畫專報因為你本來就是這方面的一個專家那我想說首先先關心一下就是目前石門水庫到新竹鐵通道目前進度如何進度是超前的大概有將近30\n\n3\n00:00:40,888 --> 00:01:05,419\n30%左右超前是因為我們往後延了一年嘛我們本來是115年超前不是往後延一年那往後延一年的部分以後我們是還考慮到包括一些物價啦的一個上漲還有包括我們現金流量不足因為現在的預算是有限的所以說你說基本上現在這個狀態是按照115年的進度就已經是超前了嗎\n\n4\n00:01:08,810 --> 00:01:26,902\n這個據我了解他應該可以稍微提前完工可以提前完工提前完工是按照116年的一個延後這個計畫是可以提前完工是這個意思嗎116年他是計畫期程那我們希望說依照比較計畫的期程來提前大概可以提前到什麼時候\n\n5\n00:01:28,851 --> 00:01:43,941\n大概116年左右116年上半年嗎應該我們會希望在上半年只要完工的話他會有一些比較顯著的效益因為一般我們缺水會在上半年的時候發生那我在想說\n\n6\n00:01:45,101 --> 00:02:05,212\n除了這個部分我們持續在追蹤這個進度之外因為這整個珍珠川的計畫其實算是一個好的計畫可是要怎麼樣把它落實是重要的那我想說在針對這個新竹的防災及備援水井的建置工程這邊的時候之前有特別提到要增加17口備援井已經完工了沒\n\n7\n00:02:06,293 --> 00:02:30,695\n有13口的這個備援水井這個在109年跟110年就已經完成了那這個部分包括舊的部分現在都已經提前啟用現在保熱水庫可以蓄水率是滿酷的有一部分是在我們透過地瓢水跟地下水聯合運用的結果理解喔所以說我們這17口井是包含之前的14口嗎\n\n8\n00:02:32,828 --> 00:02:58,744\n對包含原本的十字口總共是17口井嘛對不對OK那我想問一下因為我們現在這17口井的時候每日最多是供3.2萬噸嘛我看所有資料是這樣在寫可是我們當時在十字口井的時候呢我們當時就擔心到地層下陷的問題所以在千甲地區這邊的時候會造成地層下陷所以包括影響到那個頭前溪大橋68快速道路\n\n9\n00:02:59,404 --> 00:03:19,424\n然後台鐵、縱貫線、國道1號、高速公路等等他們橋墩的狀態所以對於這個部分的時候我們在使用這個備援井的部分有沒有什麼特別的一個限制使用備援井的部分第一個就是不要因為我提前使用備援井然後對於地表水或是農業灌溉用水可能會有影響\n\n10\n00:03:20,523 --> 00:03:36,738\n那第二個部分是其實這些變原水井既然我們找在那裡我們就是評估過它對於地層下限不會有問題的都不會有問題即使每天抽抽很長的時間都不會有問題基本上我們會做一個所謂的安全抽取量的控制\n\n11\n00:03:38,083 --> 00:04:05,886\nOK好那這個沒有問題因為我在想說在新竹這個區域當中的時候其實大家對於這個供水的狀態其實是有點擔心的那因為那個我們按照那個DSET就是我們就是國科會下面的一個研究機構科學民主與社會研究中心他所提出來狀態是他認為因為未來先進製程會因為半導體產業的一個途徑式的需求會在2036年缺水\n\n12\n00:04:06,747 --> 00:04:32,216\n我想市長應該知道這個狀態對不對那個報告我有看過那個報告所引用的數字可能他研究的期間是在我們百年大旱之前那我們百年大旱之後剛剛委員所詢問到兩個重大工程包括所謂的聯通管包括蝙蝠水井這一些都是百年大旱之後我們就緊急提出來的區域水資源計畫情勢已經不一樣了第一個\n\n13\n00:04:33,896 --> 00:04:51,244\n目前半導體不管是新建中的或是運作中的先進的製程用水我們各個區域都是供給大於需求這供給大於需求不會有問題所以第二個部分因為半導體高科技的廠商\n\n14\n00:04:51,784 --> 00:05:11,001\n他承諾加入RE100所以他新建的這個廠區依照我們再生水資源發展條例他必須要使用一定比例的再生水而目前我們看到的不管是在新竹或是在高雄地區他承諾使用的比例都是遠高於法規的比例\n\n15\n00:05:11,857 --> 00:05:28,359\n那除此之外的話我們加速了包括台水公司19條的備沿幹管還有包括我們海水淡化廠這些蓋了之後事實上即便面對百年大旱的情境也都不會有問題不會蓄水率只有3%\n\n16\n00:05:31,423 --> 00:05:45,860\n因為你剛剛講的其實很清楚因為你剛剛又提到一個海蛋廠的部分因為新竹有建海蛋廠那因為新竹建海蛋廠一天10萬公噸的狀態剛好跟寶山二期台積電就是二奈米廠的量是一樣的\n\n17\n00:05:46,761 --> 00:06:11,081\n因為台積電這邊是9.7萬每一天所以說我們當時就會在想說海淡廠這邊可能跟台積電用水量其實有相關的可是我想請教次長你知道在晶圓廠當中的時候它的用水當中的結構它需要有很大量的一個超純淨水這超純淨水的部分你知道它要用到多少的一個它使用水量的占比嗎\n\n18\n00:06:12,122 --> 00:06:34,620\n它使用水量的占比在製程的部分差不多是將近7乘5左右7乘6這圖上面這邊有很清楚狀態那因為整個先進製程當中的時候它的超純水的占比需要用到76%那我們這邊提到了有很多的再生水的狀態跟海淡水的部分它基本上都不能夠用的\n\n19\n00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:54,875\n所以它必須要用到水庫的一個原本的自然水的狀態所以我們到時候這邊的時候是用一個大水庫的概念的時候讓海淡水跟再生水都用在消費上面還是要怎麼樣去做一個調整第一個\n\n20\n00:06:56,041 --> 00:07:18,503\n假設你剛剛講的這個高科技的用水是10萬噸左右他第一個他自己廠內的一直循環佔了三分之一那其他的三分之二由外部的水來補給那外部的水來補給的話事實上再生水的使用在即便是台南的先進製程都證實是沒有問題的\n\n21\n00:07:22,149 --> 00:07:48,181\n你說再生水的部分在台南的先進製程證實是沒有問題是哪一個先進製程他們自己也建了兩萬噸的這個再生水廠來運用所以這個部分是沒有問題的那至於說海水氮化的部分過去啊他們擔心所謂的微量的捧的元素那這個捧的元素也因為科技的發展跟進步他可以去去除\n\n22\n00:07:48,621 --> 00:08:13,476\n或是在製程上面它可以去做調節但是我還是要跟委員講我們做水這些供水的工程不是只為了高科技廠商使用我們是要讓整個區域裡面就如同委員所說的大系統大水庫的部分可以穩定那它可以穩定的一個情況之下的話產業也可以發展民生的用水也可以穩定這是我們的目標\n\n23\n00:08:14,642 --> 00:08:31,211\nOK那我就要這邊我要特別問到一個狀態因為在今年1月份的時候就是當時在刪減凍結預算的時候水利署這邊有特別提到的狀態是說因為他會減少100口的備用水井的啟用調查請問現在情況還是這樣子嗎\n\n24\n00:08:33,530 --> 00:08:51,859\n因為這114年的總預算我們大概被刪減了將近23億左右那這些所謂的剛剛的備用全國的備用水準這不是只有新竹市而已我們本來希望加速來完成加速來調查\n\n25\n00:08:52,959 --> 00:09:02,731\n那這個因為預算的縮減的關係我們期程必須要重新再做檢查那100口調查的狀態是預計大概會有多少井是可以去開鑿的\n\n26\n00:09:05,678 --> 00:09:28,994\n這個就是我們要做調查的一個目的因為我在看到一下我們之前所有的相關的一個預算的部分因為在整個水利署的預算比去年增加了204.4億增加百分之一點百分之100.8%那麼在第三幕的一個水利建設跟保育管理經費當中的時候呢比去年增加202億多了113%那麼在第四節當中的那個\n\n27\n00:09:35,878 --> 00:10:01,629\n河川海岸及排水環境營造這個部分的也比去年增加了66.4%其中跟地下水保育及水文觀測計畫裡面下面的備用水井規劃調查及雙北地區建置計畫只有3億元所以我想知道說你剛剛提到說整個經濟部被刪了23億的時候有多少會反映在這個地方會影響到這個部分\n\n28\n00:10:02,469 --> 00:10:27,519\n影響事實上蠻大的啦雖然說114年水利署的預算比113年還多那主要是第一個他是要投資未來第二個部分他是要去解決113年連續三個大颱風所造成的這些的災害理解所以我特別關注在一個就是備援警的這個部分因為\n\n29\n00:10:28,799 --> 00:10:51,358\n經濟部這邊提出來的狀態是說因為被山跟洞的狀態所以影響到備援井的部分所以會影響到整個抗旱的一個量能所以我對這部分想說這麼多兩千多億的一個經濟部預算裡面只有三億是跟這個有關的可是他竟然用這個部分的時候來表示說會影響到整個的抗旱的一個計畫\n\n30\n00:10:52,479 --> 00:11:03,512\n所以針對這個部分我想說你把這個3億到時候會怎麼樣受影響或對於這些備援警這一百口備援警的狀態你可以本席一個很詳細的狀態因為我很難從整個2000多億的預算當中去影響到這3億的部分\n\n31\n00:11:09,819 --> 00:11:31,497\n然後3的部分又非常的少我們在一輪二輪的時候對於整個檢列數都非常的低而且真的有影響是凍結的部分凍結的部分你們提出說明就可以所以我比較難去理解說水利署說這一百口抗旱井會影響到抗旱的一個量能所以我想請次長這邊給我本席很清楚的一個狀態\n\n32\n00:11:32,558 --> 00:11:50,548\n因為他本身所佔的預算就很低我們又沒有3那動的部分的時候你們提出來狀態應該就可以解決所以我不太能夠去理解為什麼這一百口被援警的調查會影響到整個抗旱的那個量能這個資料我會送給委員那第二個部分是\n\n33\n00:11:51,823 --> 00:12:12,842\n那麼大的預算其實每個預算他都有一個工作計劃這個每個工作計劃都有他的需要性另外一個部分剛剛我們要討論到的因為在經濟部的部分坦白說我們整個經濟部因為在經濟部裡面被刪的部分已經算是非常的少了我們在一輪當中的時候檢列數只有少少的\n\n34\n00:12:15,168 --> 00:12:32,393\n只有少少的一筆而已其實非常的少啦不過有時候那個關鍵的少數對關鍵的工作就有很大的差異這沒問題所以我想知道說這個這麼兩千多億的預算當中的三億當中在備援金當中的時候它的關鍵到哪裡去你請給本席一個很清楚的一個說法好不好好沒有問題\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5888\t7870\t謝主席 我想請一下賴長賜 謝謝賴市長好 委員好\n18607\t37655\t次長好謝謝主席今天特別安排一個防洪抗旱的一個計畫專報因為你本來就是這方面的一個專家那我想說首先先關心一下就是目前石門水庫到新竹鐵通道目前進度如何進度是超前的大概有將近30\n40888\t65419\t30%左右超前是因為我們往後延了一年嘛我們本來是115年超前不是往後延一年那往後延一年的部分以後我們是還考慮到包括一些物價啦的一個上漲還有包括我們現金流量不足因為現在的預算是有限的所以說你說基本上現在這個狀態是按照115年的進度就已經是超前了嗎\n68810\t86902\t這個據我了解他應該可以稍微提前完工可以提前完工提前完工是按照116年的一個延後這個計畫是可以提前完工是這個意思嗎116年他是計畫期程那我們希望說依照比較計畫的期程來提前大概可以提前到什麼時候\n88851\t103941\t大概116年左右116年上半年嗎應該我們會希望在上半年只要完工的話他會有一些比較顯著的效益因為一般我們缺水會在上半年的時候發生那我在想說\n105101\t125212\t除了這個部分我們持續在追蹤這個進度之外因為這整個珍珠川的計畫其實算是一個好的計畫可是要怎麼樣把它落實是重要的那我想說在針對這個新竹的防災及備援水井的建置工程這邊的時候之前有特別提到要增加17口備援井 已經完工了沒\n126293\t150695\t有13口的這個備援水井這個在109年跟110年就已經完成了那這個部分包括舊的部分現在都已經提前啟用現在保熱水庫可以蓄水率是滿酷的有一部分是在我們透過地瓢水跟地下水聯合運用的結果理解喔所以說我們這17口井是包含之前的14口嗎\n152828\t178744\t對 包含原本的十字口總共是17口井嘛 對不對OK 那我想問一下因為我們現在這17口井的時候每日最多是供3.2萬噸嘛我看所有資料是這樣在寫可是我們當時在十字口井的時候呢我們當時就擔心到地層下陷的問題所以在千甲地區這邊的時候會造成地層下陷所以包括影響到那個頭前溪大橋68快速道路\n179404\t199424\t然後台鐵、縱貫線、國道1號、高速公路等等他們橋墩的狀態所以對於這個部分的時候我們在使用這個備援井的部分有沒有什麼特別的一個限制使用備援井的部分第一個就是不要因為我提前使用備援井然後對於地表水或是農業灌溉用水可能會有影響\n200523\t216738\t那第二個部分是 其實這些變原水井 既然我們找在那裡 我們就是評估過它對於地層下限不會有問題的都不會有問題 即使每天抽 抽很長的時間都不會有問題基本上我們會做一個所謂的安全抽取量的控制\n218083\t245886\tOK 好 那這個沒有問題因為我在想說在新竹這個區域當中的時候其實大家對於這個供水的狀態其實是有點擔心的那因為那個我們按照那個DSET就是我們就是國科會下面的一個研究機構科學民主與社會研究中心他所提出來狀態是他認為因為未來先進製程會因為半導體產業的一個途徑式的需求會在2036年缺水\n246747\t272216\t我想市長應該知道這個狀態對不對那個報告我有看過那個報告所引用的數字可能他研究的期間是在我們百年大旱之前那我們百年大旱之後剛剛委員所詢問到兩個重大工程包括所謂的聯通管包括蝙蝠水井這一些都是百年大旱之後我們就緊急提出來的區域水資源計畫情勢已經不一樣了第一個\n273896\t291244\t目前半導體不管是新建中的或是運作中的先進的製程用水我們各個區域都是供給大於需求這供給大於需求不會有問題所以第二個部分因為半導體高科技的廠商\n291784\t311001\t他承諾加入RE100所以他新建的這個廠區依照我們再生水資源發展條例他必須要使用一定比例的再生水而目前我們看到的不管是在新竹或是在高雄地區他承諾使用的比例都是遠高於法規的比例\n311857\t328359\t那除此之外的話我們加速了包括台水公司19條的備沿幹管還有包括我們海水淡化廠這些蓋了之後事實上即便面對百年大旱的情境也都不會有問題不會蓄水率只有3%\n331423\t345860\t因為你剛剛講的其實很清楚因為你剛剛又提到一個海蛋廠的部分因為新竹有建海蛋廠那因為新竹建海蛋廠一天10萬公噸的狀態剛好跟寶山二期台積電就是二奈米廠的量是一樣的\n346761\t371081\t因為台積電這邊是9.7萬每一天所以說我們當時就會在想說海淡廠這邊可能跟台積電用水量其實有相關的可是我想請教次長你知道在晶圓廠當中的時候它的用水當中的結構它需要有很大量的一個超純淨水這超純淨水的部分你知道它要用到多少的一個它使用水量的占比嗎\n372122\t394620\t它使用水量的占比在製程的部分差不多是將近7乘5左右7乘6這圖上面這邊有很清楚狀態那因為整個先進製程當中的時候它的超純水的占比需要用到76%那我們這邊提到了有很多的再生水的狀態跟海淡水的部分它基本上都不能夠用的\n395000\t414875\t所以它必須要用到水庫的一個原本的自然水的狀態所以我們到時候這邊的時候是用一個大水庫的概念的時候讓海淡水跟再生水都用在消費上面還是要怎麼樣去做一個調整第一個\n416041\t438503\t假設你剛剛講的這個高科技的用水是10萬噸左右他第一個他自己廠內的一直循環佔了三分之一那其他的三分之二由外部的水來補給那外部的水來補給的話事實上再生水的使用在即便是台南的先進製程都證實是沒有問題的\n442149\t468181\t你說再生水的部分在台南的先進製程證實是沒有問題是哪一個先進製程他們自己也建了兩萬噸的這個再生水廠來運用所以這個部分是沒有問題的那至於說海水氮化的部分過去啊他們擔心所謂的微量的捧的元素那這個捧的元素也因為科技的發展跟進步他可以去去除\n468621\t493476\t或是在製程上面它可以去做調節但是我還是要跟委員講我們做水這些供水的工程不是只為了高科技廠商使用我們是要讓整個區域裡面就如同委員所說的大系統大水庫的部分可以穩定那它可以穩定的一個情況之下的話產業也可以發展民生的用水也可以穩定這是我們的目標\n494642\t511211\tOK那我就要這邊我要特別問到一個狀態因為在今年1月份的時候就是當時在刪減凍結預算的時候水利署這邊有特別提到的狀態是說因為他會減少100口的備用水井的啟用調查請問現在情況還是這樣子嗎\n513530\t531859\t因為這114年的總預算我們大概被刪減了將近23億左右那這些所謂的剛剛的備用全國的備用水準這不是只有新竹市而已我們本來希望加速來完成加速來調查\n532959\t542731\t那這個因為預算的縮減的關係我們期程必須要重新再做檢查那100口調查的狀態是預計大概會有多少井是可以去開鑿的\n545678\t568994\t這個就是我們要做調查的一個目的因為我在看到一下我們之前所有的相關的一個預算的部分因為在整個水利署的預算比去年增加了204.4億增加百分之一點百分之100.8%那麼在第三幕的一個水利建設跟保育管理經費當中的時候呢比去年增加202億多了113%那麼在第四節當中的那個\n575878\t601629\t河川海岸及排水環境營造這個部分的也比去年增加了66.4%其中跟地下水保育及水文觀測計畫裡面下面的備用水井規劃調查及雙北地區建置計畫只有3億元所以我想知道說你剛剛提到說整個經濟部被刪了23億的時候有多少會反映在這個地方會影響到這個部分\n602469\t627519\t影響事實上蠻大的啦雖然說114年水利署的預算比113年還多那主要是第一個他是要投資未來第二個部分他是要去解決113年連續三個大颱風所造成的這些的災害理解 所以我特別關注在一個就是備援警的這個部分因為\n628799\t651358\t經濟部這邊提出來的狀態是說因為被山跟洞的狀態所以影響到備援井的部分所以會影響到整個抗旱的一個量能所以我對這部分想說這麼多兩千多億的一個經濟部預算裡面只有三億是跟這個有關的可是他竟然用這個部分的時候來表示說會影響到整個的抗旱的一個計畫\n652479\t663512\t所以針對這個部分我想說你把這個3億到時候會怎麼樣受影響或對於這些備援警這一百口備援警的狀態你可以本席一個很詳細的狀態因為我很難從整個2000多億的預算當中去影響到這3億的部分\n669819\t691497\t然後3的部分又非常的少我們在一輪二輪的時候對於整個檢列數都非常的低而且真的有影響是凍結的部分凍結的部分你們提出說明就可以所以我比較難去理解說水利署說這一百口抗旱井會影響到抗旱的一個量能所以我想請次長這邊給我本席很清楚的一個狀態\n692558\t710548\t因為他本身所佔的預算就很低我們又沒有3那動的部分的時候你們提出來狀態應該就可以解決所以我不太能夠去理解為什麼這一百口被援警的調查會影響到整個抗旱的那個量能這個資料我會送給委員那第二個部分是\n711823\t732842\t那麼大的預算 其實每個預算他都有一個工作計劃 這個每個工作計劃都有他的需要性另外一個部分剛剛我們要討論到的 因為在經濟部的部分 坦白說我們整個經濟部因為在經濟部裡面被刪的部分已經算是非常的少了 我們在一輪當中的時候檢列數只有少少的\n735168\t752393\t只有少少的一筆而已 其實非常的少啦不過有時候那個關鍵的少數對關鍵的工作就有很大的差異這沒問題 所以我想知道說這個這麼兩千多億的預算當中的三億當中在備援金當中的時候它的關鍵到哪裡去你請給本席一個很清楚的一個說法好不好好 沒有問題\n","txt":"謝主席 我想請一下賴長賜 謝謝賴市長好 委員好\n次長好謝謝主席今天特別安排一個防洪抗旱的一個計畫專報因為你本來就是這方面的一個專家那我想說首先先關心一下就是目前石門水庫到新竹鐵通道目前進度如何進度是超前的大概有將近30\n30%左右超前是因為我們往後延了一年嘛我們本來是115年超前不是往後延一年那往後延一年的部分以後我們是還考慮到包括一些物價啦的一個上漲還有包括我們現金流量不足因為現在的預算是有限的所以說你說基本上現在這個狀態是按照115年的進度就已經是超前了嗎\n這個據我了解他應該可以稍微提前完工可以提前完工提前完工是按照116年的一個延後這個計畫是可以提前完工是這個意思嗎116年他是計畫期程那我們希望說依照比較計畫的期程來提前大概可以提前到什麼時候\n大概116年左右116年上半年嗎應該我們會希望在上半年只要完工的話他會有一些比較顯著的效益因為一般我們缺水會在上半年的時候發生那我在想說\n除了這個部分我們持續在追蹤這個進度之外因為這整個珍珠川的計畫其實算是一個好的計畫可是要怎麼樣把它落實是重要的那我想說在針對這個新竹的防災及備援水井的建置工程這邊的時候之前有特別提到要增加17口備援井 已經完工了沒\n有13口的這個備援水井這個在109年跟110年就已經完成了那這個部分包括舊的部分現在都已經提前啟用現在保熱水庫可以蓄水率是滿酷的有一部分是在我們透過地瓢水跟地下水聯合運用的結果理解喔所以說我們這17口井是包含之前的14口嗎\n對 包含原本的十字口總共是17口井嘛 對不對OK 那我想問一下因為我們現在這17口井的時候每日最多是供3.2萬噸嘛我看所有資料是這樣在寫可是我們當時在十字口井的時候呢我們當時就擔心到地層下陷的問題所以在千甲地區這邊的時候會造成地層下陷所以包括影響到那個頭前溪大橋68快速道路\n然後台鐵、縱貫線、國道1號、高速公路等等他們橋墩的狀態所以對於這個部分的時候我們在使用這個備援井的部分有沒有什麼特別的一個限制使用備援井的部分第一個就是不要因為我提前使用備援井然後對於地表水或是農業灌溉用水可能會有影響\n那第二個部分是 其實這些變原水井 既然我們找在那裡 我們就是評估過它對於地層下限不會有問題的都不會有問題 即使每天抽 抽很長的時間都不會有問題基本上我們會做一個所謂的安全抽取量的控制\nOK 好 那這個沒有問題因為我在想說在新竹這個區域當中的時候其實大家對於這個供水的狀態其實是有點擔心的那因為那個我們按照那個DSET就是我們就是國科會下面的一個研究機構科學民主與社會研究中心他所提出來狀態是他認為因為未來先進製程會因為半導體產業的一個途徑式的需求會在2036年缺水\n我想市長應該知道這個狀態對不對那個報告我有看過那個報告所引用的數字可能他研究的期間是在我們百年大旱之前那我們百年大旱之後剛剛委員所詢問到兩個重大工程包括所謂的聯通管包括蝙蝠水井這一些都是百年大旱之後我們就緊急提出來的區域水資源計畫情勢已經不一樣了第一個\n目前半導體不管是新建中的或是運作中的先進的製程用水我們各個區域都是供給大於需求這供給大於需求不會有問題所以第二個部分因為半導體高科技的廠商\n他承諾加入RE100所以他新建的這個廠區依照我們再生水資源發展條例他必須要使用一定比例的再生水而目前我們看到的不管是在新竹或是在高雄地區他承諾使用的比例都是遠高於法規的比例\n那除此之外的話我們加速了包括台水公司19條的備沿幹管還有包括我們海水淡化廠這些蓋了之後事實上即便面對百年大旱的情境也都不會有問題不會蓄水率只有3%\n因為你剛剛講的其實很清楚因為你剛剛又提到一個海蛋廠的部分因為新竹有建海蛋廠那因為新竹建海蛋廠一天10萬公噸的狀態剛好跟寶山二期台積電就是二奈米廠的量是一樣的\n因為台積電這邊是9.7萬每一天所以說我們當時就會在想說海淡廠這邊可能跟台積電用水量其實有相關的可是我想請教次長你知道在晶圓廠當中的時候它的用水當中的結構它需要有很大量的一個超純淨水這超純淨水的部分你知道它要用到多少的一個它使用水量的占比嗎\n它使用水量的占比在製程的部分差不多是將近7乘5左右7乘6這圖上面這邊有很清楚狀態那因為整個先進製程當中的時候它的超純水的占比需要用到76%那我們這邊提到了有很多的再生水的狀態跟海淡水的部分它基本上都不能夠用的\n所以它必須要用到水庫的一個原本的自然水的狀態所以我們到時候這邊的時候是用一個大水庫的概念的時候讓海淡水跟再生水都用在消費上面還是要怎麼樣去做一個調整第一個\n假設你剛剛講的這個高科技的用水是10萬噸左右他第一個他自己廠內的一直循環佔了三分之一那其他的三分之二由外部的水來補給那外部的水來補給的話事實上再生水的使用在即便是台南的先進製程都證實是沒有問題的\n你說再生水的部分在台南的先進製程證實是沒有問題是哪一個先進製程他們自己也建了兩萬噸的這個再生水廠來運用所以這個部分是沒有問題的那至於說海水氮化的部分過去啊他們擔心所謂的微量的捧的元素那這個捧的元素也因為科技的發展跟進步他可以去去除\n或是在製程上面它可以去做調節但是我還是要跟委員講我們做水這些供水的工程不是只為了高科技廠商使用我們是要讓整個區域裡面就如同委員所說的大系統大水庫的部分可以穩定那它可以穩定的一個情況之下的話產業也可以發展民生的用水也可以穩定這是我們的目標\nOK那我就要這邊我要特別問到一個狀態因為在今年1月份的時候就是當時在刪減凍結預算的時候水利署這邊有特別提到的狀態是說因為他會減少100口的備用水井的啟用調查請問現在情況還是這樣子嗎\n因為這114年的總預算我們大概被刪減了將近23億左右那這些所謂的剛剛的備用全國的備用水準這不是只有新竹市而已我們本來希望加速來完成加速來調查\n那這個因為預算的縮減的關係我們期程必須要重新再做檢查那100口調查的狀態是預計大概會有多少井是可以去開鑿的\n這個就是我們要做調查的一個目的因為我在看到一下我們之前所有的相關的一個預算的部分因為在整個水利署的預算比去年增加了204.4億增加百分之一點百分之100.8%那麼在第三幕的一個水利建設跟保育管理經費當中的時候呢比去年增加202億多了113%那麼在第四節當中的那個\n河川海岸及排水環境營造這個部分的也比去年增加了66.4%其中跟地下水保育及水文觀測計畫裡面下面的備用水井規劃調查及雙北地區建置計畫只有3億元所以我想知道說你剛剛提到說整個經濟部被刪了23億的時候有多少會反映在這個地方會影響到這個部分\n影響事實上蠻大的啦雖然說114年水利署的預算比113年還多那主要是第一個他是要投資未來第二個部分他是要去解決113年連續三個大颱風所造成的這些的災害理解 所以我特別關注在一個就是備援警的這個部分因為\n經濟部這邊提出來的狀態是說因為被山跟洞的狀態所以影響到備援井的部分所以會影響到整個抗旱的一個量能所以我對這部分想說這麼多兩千多億的一個經濟部預算裡面只有三億是跟這個有關的可是他竟然用這個部分的時候來表示說會影響到整個的抗旱的一個計畫\n所以針對這個部分我想說你把這個3億到時候會怎麼樣受影響或對於這些備援警這一百口備援警的狀態你可以本席一個很詳細的狀態因為我很難從整個2000多億的預算當中去影響到這3億的部分\n然後3的部分又非常的少我們在一輪二輪的時候對於整個檢列數都非常的低而且真的有影響是凍結的部分凍結的部分你們提出說明就可以所以我比較難去理解說水利署說這一百口抗旱井會影響到抗旱的一個量能所以我想請次長這邊給我本席很清楚的一個狀態\n因為他本身所佔的預算就很低我們又沒有3那動的部分的時候你們提出來狀態應該就可以解決所以我不太能夠去理解為什麼這一百口被援警的調查會影響到整個抗旱的那個量能這個資料我會送給委員那第二個部分是\n那麼大的預算 其實每個預算他都有一個工作計劃 這個每個工作計劃都有他的需要性另外一個部分剛剛我們要討論到的 因為在經濟部的部分 坦白說我們整個經濟部因為在經濟部裡面被刪的部分已經算是非常的少了 我們在一輪當中的時候檢列數只有少少的\n只有少少的一筆而已 其實非常的少啦不過有時候那個關鍵的少數對關鍵的工作就有很大的差異這沒問題 所以我想知道說這個這麼兩千多億的預算當中的三億當中在備援金當中的時候它的關鍵到哪裡去你請給本席一個很清楚的一個說法好不好好 沒有問題\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.888 --> 00:07.870\n謝主席我想請一下賴長賜謝謝賴市長好委員好\n\n00:18.607 --> 00:37.655\n次長好謝謝主席今天特別安排一個防洪抗旱的一個計畫專報因為你本來就是這方面的一個專家那我想說首先先關心一下就是目前石門水庫到新竹鐵通道目前進度如何進度是超前的大概有將近30\n\n00:40.888 --> 01:05.419\n30%左右超前是因為我們往後延了一年嘛我們本來是115年超前不是往後延一年那往後延一年的部分以後我們是還考慮到包括一些物價啦的一個上漲還有包括我們現金流量不足因為現在的預算是有限的所以說你說基本上現在這個狀態是按照115年的進度就已經是超前了嗎\n\n01:08.810 --> 01:26.902\n這個據我了解他應該可以稍微提前完工可以提前完工提前完工是按照116年的一個延後這個計畫是可以提前完工是這個意思嗎116年他是計畫期程那我們希望說依照比較計畫的期程來提前大概可以提前到什麼時候\n\n01:28.851 --> 01:43.941\n大概116年左右116年上半年嗎應該我們會希望在上半年只要完工的話他會有一些比較顯著的效益因為一般我們缺水會在上半年的時候發生那我在想說\n\n01:45.101 --> 02:05.212\n除了這個部分我們持續在追蹤這個進度之外因為這整個珍珠川的計畫其實算是一個好的計畫可是要怎麼樣把它落實是重要的那我想說在針對這個新竹的防災及備援水井的建置工程這邊的時候之前有特別提到要增加17口備援井已經完工了沒\n\n02:06.293 --> 02:30.695\n有13口的這個備援水井這個在109年跟110年就已經完成了那這個部分包括舊的部分現在都已經提前啟用現在保熱水庫可以蓄水率是滿酷的有一部分是在我們透過地瓢水跟地下水聯合運用的結果理解喔所以說我們這17口井是包含之前的14口嗎\n\n02:32.828 --> 02:58.744\n對包含原本的十字口總共是17口井嘛對不對OK那我想問一下因為我們現在這17口井的時候每日最多是供3.2萬噸嘛我看所有資料是這樣在寫可是我們當時在十字口井的時候呢我們當時就擔心到地層下陷的問題所以在千甲地區這邊的時候會造成地層下陷所以包括影響到那個頭前溪大橋68快速道路\n\n02:59.404 --> 03:19.424\n然後台鐵、縱貫線、國道1號、高速公路等等他們橋墩的狀態所以對於這個部分的時候我們在使用這個備援井的部分有沒有什麼特別的一個限制使用備援井的部分第一個就是不要因為我提前使用備援井然後對於地表水或是農業灌溉用水可能會有影響\n\n03:20.523 --> 03:36.738\n那第二個部分是其實這些變原水井既然我們找在那裡我們就是評估過它對於地層下限不會有問題的都不會有問題即使每天抽抽很長的時間都不會有問題基本上我們會做一個所謂的安全抽取量的控制\n\n03:38.083 --> 04:05.886\nOK好那這個沒有問題因為我在想說在新竹這個區域當中的時候其實大家對於這個供水的狀態其實是有點擔心的那因為那個我們按照那個DSET就是我們就是國科會下面的一個研究機構科學民主與社會研究中心他所提出來狀態是他認為因為未來先進製程會因為半導體產業的一個途徑式的需求會在2036年缺水\n\n04:06.747 --> 04:32.216\n我想市長應該知道這個狀態對不對那個報告我有看過那個報告所引用的數字可能他研究的期間是在我們百年大旱之前那我們百年大旱之後剛剛委員所詢問到兩個重大工程包括所謂的聯通管包括蝙蝠水井這一些都是百年大旱之後我們就緊急提出來的區域水資源計畫情勢已經不一樣了第一個\n\n04:33.896 --> 04:51.244\n目前半導體不管是新建中的或是運作中的先進的製程用水我們各個區域都是供給大於需求這供給大於需求不會有問題所以第二個部分因為半導體高科技的廠商\n\n04:51.784 --> 05:11.001\n他承諾加入RE100所以他新建的這個廠區依照我們再生水資源發展條例他必須要使用一定比例的再生水而目前我們看到的不管是在新竹或是在高雄地區他承諾使用的比例都是遠高於法規的比例\n\n05:11.857 --> 05:28.359\n那除此之外的話我們加速了包括台水公司19條的備沿幹管還有包括我們海水淡化廠這些蓋了之後事實上即便面對百年大旱的情境也都不會有問題不會蓄水率只有3%\n\n05:31.423 --> 05:45.860\n因為你剛剛講的其實很清楚因為你剛剛又提到一個海蛋廠的部分因為新竹有建海蛋廠那因為新竹建海蛋廠一天10萬公噸的狀態剛好跟寶山二期台積電就是二奈米廠的量是一樣的\n\n05:46.761 --> 06:11.081\n因為台積電這邊是9.7萬每一天所以說我們當時就會在想說海淡廠這邊可能跟台積電用水量其實有相關的可是我想請教次長你知道在晶圓廠當中的時候它的用水當中的結構它需要有很大量的一個超純淨水這超純淨水的部分你知道它要用到多少的一個它使用水量的占比嗎\n\n06:12.122 --> 06:34.620\n它使用水量的占比在製程的部分差不多是將近7乘5左右7乘6這圖上面這邊有很清楚狀態那因為整個先進製程當中的時候它的超純水的占比需要用到76%那我們這邊提到了有很多的再生水的狀態跟海淡水的部分它基本上都不能夠用的\n\n06:35.000 --> 06:54.875\n所以它必須要用到水庫的一個原本的自然水的狀態所以我們到時候這邊的時候是用一個大水庫的概念的時候讓海淡水跟再生水都用在消費上面還是要怎麼樣去做一個調整第一個\n\n06:56.041 --> 07:18.503\n假設你剛剛講的這個高科技的用水是10萬噸左右他第一個他自己廠內的一直循環佔了三分之一那其他的三分之二由外部的水來補給那外部的水來補給的話事實上再生水的使用在即便是台南的先進製程都證實是沒有問題的\n\n07:22.149 --> 07:48.181\n你說再生水的部分在台南的先進製程證實是沒有問題是哪一個先進製程他們自己也建了兩萬噸的這個再生水廠來運用所以這個部分是沒有問題的那至於說海水氮化的部分過去啊他們擔心所謂的微量的捧的元素那這個捧的元素也因為科技的發展跟進步他可以去去除\n\n07:48.621 --> 08:13.476\n或是在製程上面它可以去做調節但是我還是要跟委員講我們做水這些供水的工程不是只為了高科技廠商使用我們是要讓整個區域裡面就如同委員所說的大系統大水庫的部分可以穩定那它可以穩定的一個情況之下的話產業也可以發展民生的用水也可以穩定這是我們的目標\n\n08:14.642 --> 08:31.211\nOK那我就要這邊我要特別問到一個狀態因為在今年1月份的時候就是當時在刪減凍結預算的時候水利署這邊有特別提到的狀態是說因為他會減少100口的備用水井的啟用調查請問現在情況還是這樣子嗎\n\n08:33.530 --> 08:51.859\n因為這114年的總預算我們大概被刪減了將近23億左右那這些所謂的剛剛的備用全國的備用水準這不是只有新竹市而已我們本來希望加速來完成加速來調查\n\n08:52.959 --> 09:02.731\n那這個因為預算的縮減的關係我們期程必須要重新再做檢查那100口調查的狀態是預計大概會有多少井是可以去開鑿的\n\n09:05.678 --> 09:28.994\n這個就是我們要做調查的一個目的因為我在看到一下我們之前所有的相關的一個預算的部分因為在整個水利署的預算比去年增加了204.4億增加百分之一點百分之100.8%那麼在第三幕的一個水利建設跟保育管理經費當中的時候呢比去年增加202億多了113%那麼在第四節當中的那個\n\n09:35.878 --> 10:01.629\n河川海岸及排水環境營造這個部分的也比去年增加了66.4%其中跟地下水保育及水文觀測計畫裡面下面的備用水井規劃調查及雙北地區建置計畫只有3億元所以我想知道說你剛剛提到說整個經濟部被刪了23億的時候有多少會反映在這個地方會影響到這個部分\n\n10:02.469 --> 10:27.519\n影響事實上蠻大的啦雖然說114年水利署的預算比113年還多那主要是第一個他是要投資未來第二個部分他是要去解決113年連續三個大颱風所造成的這些的災害理解所以我特別關注在一個就是備援警的這個部分因為\n\n10:28.799 --> 10:51.358\n經濟部這邊提出來的狀態是說因為被山跟洞的狀態所以影響到備援井的部分所以會影響到整個抗旱的一個量能所以我對這部分想說這麼多兩千多億的一個經濟部預算裡面只有三億是跟這個有關的可是他竟然用這個部分的時候來表示說會影響到整個的抗旱的一個計畫\n\n10:52.479 --> 11:03.512\n所以針對這個部分我想說你把這個3億到時候會怎麼樣受影響或對於這些備援警這一百口備援警的狀態你可以本席一個很詳細的狀態因為我很難從整個2000多億的預算當中去影響到這3億的部分\n\n11:09.819 --> 11:31.497\n然後3的部分又非常的少我們在一輪二輪的時候對於整個檢列數都非常的低而且真的有影響是凍結的部分凍結的部分你們提出說明就可以所以我比較難去理解說水利署說這一百口抗旱井會影響到抗旱的一個量能所以我想請次長這邊給我本席很清楚的一個狀態\n\n11:32.558 --> 11:50.548\n因為他本身所佔的預算就很低我們又沒有3那動的部分的時候你們提出來狀態應該就可以解決所以我不太能夠去理解為什麼這一百口被援警的調查會影響到整個抗旱的那個量能這個資料我會送給委員那第二個部分是\n\n11:51.823 --> 12:12.842\n那麼大的預算其實每個預算他都有一個工作計劃這個每個工作計劃都有他的需要性另外一個部分剛剛我們要討論到的因為在經濟部的部分坦白說我們整個經濟部因為在經濟部裡面被刪的部分已經算是非常的少了我們在一輪當中的時候檢列數只有少少的\n\n12:15.168 --> 12:32.393\n只有少少的一筆而已其實非常的少啦不過有時候那個關鍵的少數對關鍵的工作就有很大的差異這沒問題所以我想知道說這個這麼兩千多億的預算當中的三億當中在備援金當中的時候它的關鍵到哪裡去你請給本席一個很清楚的一個說法好不好好沒有問題\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.888,"end":7.87,"text":"謝主席 我想請一下賴長賜 謝謝賴市長好 委員好"},{"start":18.607,"end":37.655,"text":"次長好謝謝主席今天特別安排一個防洪抗旱的一個計畫專報因為你本來就是這方面的一個專家那我想說首先先關心一下就是目前石門水庫到新竹鐵通道目前進度如何進度是超前的大概有將近30"},{"start":40.888,"end":65.419,"text":"30%左右超前是因為我們往後延了一年嘛我們本來是115年超前不是往後延一年那往後延一年的部分以後我們是還考慮到包括一些物價啦的一個上漲還有包括我們現金流量不足因為現在的預算是有限的所以說你說基本上現在這個狀態是按照115年的進度就已經是超前了嗎"},{"start":68.81,"end":86.902,"text":"這個據我了解他應該可以稍微提前完工可以提前完工提前完工是按照116年的一個延後這個計畫是可以提前完工是這個意思嗎116年他是計畫期程那我們希望說依照比較計畫的期程來提前大概可以提前到什麼時候"},{"start":88.851,"end":103.941,"text":"大概116年左右116年上半年嗎應該我們會希望在上半年只要完工的話他會有一些比較顯著的效益因為一般我們缺水會在上半年的時候發生那我在想說"},{"start":105.101,"end":125.212,"text":"除了這個部分我們持續在追蹤這個進度之外因為這整個珍珠川的計畫其實算是一個好的計畫可是要怎麼樣把它落實是重要的那我想說在針對這個新竹的防災及備援水井的建置工程這邊的時候之前有特別提到要增加17口備援井 已經完工了沒"},{"start":126.293,"end":150.695,"text":"有13口的這個備援水井這個在109年跟110年就已經完成了那這個部分包括舊的部分現在都已經提前啟用現在保熱水庫可以蓄水率是滿酷的有一部分是在我們透過地瓢水跟地下水聯合運用的結果理解喔所以說我們這17口井是包含之前的14口嗎"},{"start":152.828,"end":178.744,"text":"對 包含原本的十字口總共是17口井嘛 對不對OK 那我想問一下因為我們現在這17口井的時候每日最多是供3.2萬噸嘛我看所有資料是這樣在寫可是我們當時在十字口井的時候呢我們當時就擔心到地層下陷的問題所以在千甲地區這邊的時候會造成地層下陷所以包括影響到那個頭前溪大橋68快速道路"},{"start":179.404,"end":199.424,"text":"然後台鐵、縱貫線、國道1號、高速公路等等他們橋墩的狀態所以對於這個部分的時候我們在使用這個備援井的部分有沒有什麼特別的一個限制使用備援井的部分第一個就是不要因為我提前使用備援井然後對於地表水或是農業灌溉用水可能會有影響"},{"start":200.523,"end":216.738,"text":"那第二個部分是 其實這些變原水井 既然我們找在那裡 我們就是評估過它對於地層下限不會有問題的都不會有問題 即使每天抽 抽很長的時間都不會有問題基本上我們會做一個所謂的安全抽取量的控制"},{"start":218.083,"end":245.886,"text":"OK 好 那這個沒有問題因為我在想說在新竹這個區域當中的時候其實大家對於這個供水的狀態其實是有點擔心的那因為那個我們按照那個DSET就是我們就是國科會下面的一個研究機構科學民主與社會研究中心他所提出來狀態是他認為因為未來先進製程會因為半導體產業的一個途徑式的需求會在2036年缺水"},{"start":246.747,"end":272.216,"text":"我想市長應該知道這個狀態對不對那個報告我有看過那個報告所引用的數字可能他研究的期間是在我們百年大旱之前那我們百年大旱之後剛剛委員所詢問到兩個重大工程包括所謂的聯通管包括蝙蝠水井這一些都是百年大旱之後我們就緊急提出來的區域水資源計畫情勢已經不一樣了第一個"},{"start":273.896,"end":291.244,"text":"目前半導體不管是新建中的或是運作中的先進的製程用水我們各個區域都是供給大於需求這供給大於需求不會有問題所以第二個部分因為半導體高科技的廠商"},{"start":291.784,"end":311.001,"text":"他承諾加入RE100所以他新建的這個廠區依照我們再生水資源發展條例他必須要使用一定比例的再生水而目前我們看到的不管是在新竹或是在高雄地區他承諾使用的比例都是遠高於法規的比例"},{"start":311.857,"end":328.359,"text":"那除此之外的話我們加速了包括台水公司19條的備沿幹管還有包括我們海水淡化廠這些蓋了之後事實上即便面對百年大旱的情境也都不會有問題不會蓄水率只有3%"},{"start":331.423,"end":345.86,"text":"因為你剛剛講的其實很清楚因為你剛剛又提到一個海蛋廠的部分因為新竹有建海蛋廠那因為新竹建海蛋廠一天10萬公噸的狀態剛好跟寶山二期台積電就是二奈米廠的量是一樣的"},{"start":346.761,"end":371.081,"text":"因為台積電這邊是9.7萬每一天所以說我們當時就會在想說海淡廠這邊可能跟台積電用水量其實有相關的可是我想請教次長你知道在晶圓廠當中的時候它的用水當中的結構它需要有很大量的一個超純淨水這超純淨水的部分你知道它要用到多少的一個它使用水量的占比嗎"},{"start":372.122,"end":394.62,"text":"它使用水量的占比在製程的部分差不多是將近7乘5左右7乘6這圖上面這邊有很清楚狀態那因為整個先進製程當中的時候它的超純水的占比需要用到76%那我們這邊提到了有很多的再生水的狀態跟海淡水的部分它基本上都不能夠用的"},{"start":395,"end":414.875,"text":"所以它必須要用到水庫的一個原本的自然水的狀態所以我們到時候這邊的時候是用一個大水庫的概念的時候讓海淡水跟再生水都用在消費上面還是要怎麼樣去做一個調整第一個"},{"start":416.041,"end":438.503,"text":"假設你剛剛講的這個高科技的用水是10萬噸左右他第一個他自己廠內的一直循環佔了三分之一那其他的三分之二由外部的水來補給那外部的水來補給的話事實上再生水的使用在即便是台南的先進製程都證實是沒有問題的"},{"start":442.149,"end":468.181,"text":"你說再生水的部分在台南的先進製程證實是沒有問題是哪一個先進製程他們自己也建了兩萬噸的這個再生水廠來運用所以這個部分是沒有問題的那至於說海水氮化的部分過去啊他們擔心所謂的微量的捧的元素那這個捧的元素也因為科技的發展跟進步他可以去去除"},{"start":468.621,"end":493.476,"text":"或是在製程上面它可以去做調節但是我還是要跟委員講我們做水這些供水的工程不是只為了高科技廠商使用我們是要讓整個區域裡面就如同委員所說的大系統大水庫的部分可以穩定那它可以穩定的一個情況之下的話產業也可以發展民生的用水也可以穩定這是我們的目標"},{"start":494.642,"end":511.211,"text":"OK那我就要這邊我要特別問到一個狀態因為在今年1月份的時候就是當時在刪減凍結預算的時候水利署這邊有特別提到的狀態是說因為他會減少100口的備用水井的啟用調查請問現在情況還是這樣子嗎"},{"start":513.53,"end":531.859,"text":"因為這114年的總預算我們大概被刪減了將近23億左右那這些所謂的剛剛的備用全國的備用水準這不是只有新竹市而已我們本來希望加速來完成加速來調查"},{"start":532.959,"end":542.731,"text":"那這個因為預算的縮減的關係我們期程必須要重新再做檢查那100口調查的狀態是預計大概會有多少井是可以去開鑿的"},{"start":545.678,"end":568.994,"text":"這個就是我們要做調查的一個目的因為我在看到一下我們之前所有的相關的一個預算的部分因為在整個水利署的預算比去年增加了204.4億增加百分之一點百分之100.8%那麼在第三幕的一個水利建設跟保育管理經費當中的時候呢比去年增加202億多了113%那麼在第四節當中的那個"},{"start":575.878,"end":601.629,"text":"河川海岸及排水環境營造這個部分的也比去年增加了66.4%其中跟地下水保育及水文觀測計畫裡面下面的備用水井規劃調查及雙北地區建置計畫只有3億元所以我想知道說你剛剛提到說整個經濟部被刪了23億的時候有多少會反映在這個地方會影響到這個部分"},{"start":602.469,"end":627.519,"text":"影響事實上蠻大的啦雖然說114年水利署的預算比113年還多那主要是第一個他是要投資未來第二個部分他是要去解決113年連續三個大颱風所造成的這些的災害理解 所以我特別關注在一個就是備援警的這個部分因為"},{"start":628.799,"end":651.358,"text":"經濟部這邊提出來的狀態是說因為被山跟洞的狀態所以影響到備援井的部分所以會影響到整個抗旱的一個量能所以我對這部分想說這麼多兩千多億的一個經濟部預算裡面只有三億是跟這個有關的可是他竟然用這個部分的時候來表示說會影響到整個的抗旱的一個計畫"},{"start":652.479,"end":663.512,"text":"所以針對這個部分我想說你把這個3億到時候會怎麼樣受影響或對於這些備援警這一百口備援警的狀態你可以本席一個很詳細的狀態因為我很難從整個2000多億的預算當中去影響到這3億的部分"},{"start":669.819,"end":691.497,"text":"然後3的部分又非常的少我們在一輪二輪的時候對於整個檢列數都非常的低而且真的有影響是凍結的部分凍結的部分你們提出說明就可以所以我比較難去理解說水利署說這一百口抗旱井會影響到抗旱的一個量能所以我想請次長這邊給我本席很清楚的一個狀態"},{"start":692.558,"end":710.548,"text":"因為他本身所佔的預算就很低我們又沒有3那動的部分的時候你們提出來狀態應該就可以解決所以我不太能夠去理解為什麼這一百口被援警的調查會影響到整個抗旱的那個量能這個資料我會送給委員那第二個部分是"},{"start":711.823,"end":732.842,"text":"那麼大的預算 其實每個預算他都有一個工作計劃 這個每個工作計劃都有他的需要性另外一個部分剛剛我們要討論到的 因為在經濟部的部分 坦白說我們整個經濟部因為在經濟部裡面被刪的部分已經算是非常的少了 我們在一輪當中的時候檢列數只有少少的"},{"start":735.168,"end":752.393,"text":"只有少少的一筆而已 其實非常的少啦不過有時候那個關鍵的少數對關鍵的工作就有很大的差異這沒問題 所以我想知道說這個這麼兩千多億的預算當中的三億當中在備援金當中的時候它的關鍵到哪裡去你請給本席一個很清楚的一個說法好不好好 沒有問題"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":643,"blocks":[["鄭委員正鈐：（11時32分）謝謝主席。我想請一下賴常次，謝謝。"],["主席：賴次長。"],["賴次長建信：委員好。"],["鄭委員正鈐：次長好。謝謝主席今天特別安排防洪抗旱的計畫專報，因為你本來就是這方面的專家。首先，先關心一下石門水庫到新竹聯通管，目前進度如何？"],["賴次長建信：進度是超前的，大概有將近30%左右。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK。超前是因為我們往後延了一年嘛！我們本來是115年要完工……"],["賴次長建信：超前不是往後延一年，往後延一年的部分，因為我們還考慮到包括一些物價上漲，還有包括我們的現金流量不足，因為現在的預算是有限的。"],["鄭委員正鈐：是。所以你說基本上現在這個狀態是按照115年的進度，就已經是超前了嗎？"],["賴次長建信：據我瞭解，它應該可以稍微提前完工。"],["鄭委員正鈐：可以提前完工。提前完工是按照116年的延後計畫，然後可以提前完工，是這個意思嘛？"],["賴次長建信：116年是計畫期程，我們希望比照計畫期程來提前。"],["鄭委員正鈐：大概可以提前到什麼時候？"],["賴次長建信：大概116年左右。"],["鄭委員正鈐：116年，上半年嗎？"],["賴次長建信：我們會希望是在上半年，假如完工的話，它會有一些比較顯著的效益。"],["鄭委員正鈐：是！一般我們缺水會在上半年的時候發生，我在想除了這個部分，我們持續在追蹤這個進度之外，因為這整個珍珠串計畫其實算是一個好的計畫，可是要怎麼樣把它落實是重要的。","針對新竹的防災及備援水井的建置工程，之前有特別提到要增加17口備援井，已經完工了沒？"],["賴次長建信：有13口的備援水井，在109跟110年就已經完成了。這個部分，包括舊的部分，現在都已經提前啟用，現在寶二水庫蓄水率是滿庫的，有一部分是我們透過地表水跟地下水聯合運用的結果。"],["鄭委員正鈐：是、是，理解。所以這17口井是包含之前的14口嗎？"],["賴次長建信：對，13口。"],["鄭委員正鈐：包含原本的14口，總共是17口井，對不對？"],["賴次長建信：對、對！"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK。我想問一下，因為我們現在這17口井，每日最多是供3.2萬噸，我看所有資料是這樣寫，可是在14口井的時候，我們當時就擔心地層下陷的問題，所以在千甲地區會造成地層下陷，包括會影響到頭前溪大橋、68快速道路、臺鐵縱貫線跟國道一號高速公路等等橋墩的狀態，對於這個部分，我們在使用備援井有沒有什麼特別的限制？"],["賴次長建信：使用備援井的部分，第一個，不要因為我提前使用備援井，對於地表水或是農業灌溉用水可能會有影響；第二個部分，其實這些備援水井，既然我們鑿在那邊，我們就是評估過，它對於地層下陷不會有問題的。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK。都不會有問題，即使每天抽、抽很長的時間都不會有問題？"],["賴次長建信：基本上，我們會做一個所謂的安全抽取量的控制。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，好，這個沒有問題。因為我想在新竹這個區域中，大家對於供水的狀態，其實是有點擔心的，因為我們按照DSET，就是國科會下面的一個研究機構──科技、民主與社會研究中心所提出來狀態，它認為未來先進製程會因為半導體產業突增式的需求，會在2036年缺水，我想次長應該知道這個狀態，對不對？"],["賴次長建信：我有看過那份報告，那份報告所引用的數字，可能它研究的期間是在我們百年大旱之前，而我們百年大旱之後，剛剛委員所詢問到兩個重大工程，包括所謂的聯通管，包括備援水井，這一些都是百年大旱之後，我們就緊急提出來的區域水資源計畫，情勢已經不一樣了。第一個，目前半導體，不管是興建中或是運作中的先進製程用水，各個區域都是供給大於需求。"],["鄭委員正鈐：供給大於需求嘛？"],["賴次長建信：對，不會有問題。第二個部分，因為半導體、高科技的廠商承諾加入RE100，所以它興建的廠區依照我們再生水資源發展條例，它必須要使用一定比例的再生水，目前我們看到的，不管是在新竹或是在高雄地區，它承諾使用的比例都是遠高於法規的比例，除此之外，我們加速包括台水公司19條的備援幹管，還有包括海水淡化廠，這些蓋了之後，事實上即便面對百年大旱的情境……"],["鄭委員正鈐：也都不會有問題？"],["賴次長建信：不會蓄水率只有3%。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK。次長，你講得其實很清楚，因為你剛剛又提到海淡廠的部分，因為新竹有建海淡廠，一天10萬公噸的狀態，剛好跟寶山二期台積電二奈米廠的量是一樣的，因為台積電每一天是9.7萬，所以我們當時就會想海淡廠可能跟台積電用水量其實有相關的。可是我想請教次長，你知道在晶圓廠用水當中的結構，它需要有很大量的超純淨水，在超純淨水的部分，你知道它要用到多少及使用水量的占比嗎？"],["賴次長建信：在製程的部分，它使用水量的占比，差不多是將近七成五左右啦！"],["鄭委員正鈐：是，七成六，這圖上面有很清楚的狀態。因為整個先進製程當中，它的超純水占比需要用到76%，我們這邊提到有很多的再生水狀態跟海淡水的部分，基本上它都不能夠用的，它必須要用到原本水庫自來水的狀態，所以我們到時候是用一個大水庫的概念，讓海淡水跟再生水都用在消費上面，還是要怎麼樣去做一個調整？"],["賴次長建信：假設你剛剛講的，高科技用水是10萬噸左右，第一個，它自己廠內一直循環的占了三分之一，其他的三分之二由外部的水來補給，以外部的水來補給的話，事實上再生水的使用即便是在臺南的先進製程，都被證實是沒有問題的。第二個部分……"],["鄭委員正鈐：你說再生水的部分，在臺南的先進製程也被證實是沒有問題，是哪一個先進製程？"],["賴次長建信：對，他們自己也建了2萬噸的再生水廠來運用，所以這個部分是沒有問題的。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK。"],["賴次長建信：至於海水淡化的部分，過去他們擔心所謂微量的硼元素，這個硼的元素也因為科技的發展跟進步可以去除，或是在製程上面可以去做調節。但是我還是要跟委員講，我們做這些供水的工程不是只為了高科技廠商的使用……"],["鄭委員正鈐：當然，理解。"],["賴次長建信：我們是要讓整個區域裡面，就如同委員所說的大系統、大水庫的部分可以穩定，在它可以穩定的情況之下，產業可以發展，民生的用水也可以穩定，這是我們的目標。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，最後我要特別問到的是，因為在今年1月份在刪減、凍結預算的時候，水利署有特別提到一個狀態，就是會減少100口備用水井的啟用調查，請問現在的情況還是這樣子嗎？"],["賴次長建信：因為114年的總預算我們被刪減了將近23億左右，全國的備用水井不是只有新竹市而已。"],["鄭委員正鈐：是，理解。"],["賴次長建信：我們本來希望加速完成，加速來調查，但因為預算縮減的關係，期程必須要重新再做檢討。"],["鄭委員正鈐：那100口水井調查，預計會有多少井是可以去開鑿的？"],["賴次長建信：這個就是我們要做調查的一個目的。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK。次長，我看到我們之前所有相關預算的部分，因為整個水利署的預算比去年增加了204.4億元，增加100.8%，那麼在第3目的「水利建設及保育管理」經費當中，比去年增加202億，多了113%，在第4節當中的「河川海岸及排水環境營造」這個部分也比去年增了66.4%，其中地下水保育及水文觀測計畫下面的備用水井規劃調查及雙北地區建置計畫只有3億元，所以我想知道，你剛剛提到整個經濟部被刪了23億，有多少會反映在這個地方，會影響到這個部分？"],["賴次長建信：影響事實上滿大的，雖然114年水利署的預算比113年還多，主要是：第一個，它是要投資未來；第二個部分，它是要去解決113年連續三個大颱風所造成的這一些災害……"],["鄭委員正鈐：理解，我特別關注備援井這個部分，經濟部提出來的是，因為被刪跟凍影響到備援井的部分，所以會影響到整個抗旱的量能，對於這部分，我想說兩千多億、這麼多的經濟部預算，裡面只有3億是跟這個有關的，可是它竟然用這個部分來表示會影響到整個抗旱的計畫，所以針對這個部分，我想請你把這3億到時候會怎麼樣影響這100口的備援井，給本席一個很詳細的說明，因為我很難從整個兩千多億的預算當中去了解影響到這3億的部分，然後刪的部分又非常地少，我們在一輪、二輪的時候整個減列數都非常地低，而且真的有影響的狀況也是凍結的部分，凍結部分你們提出說明就可以動支，所以我比較難去理解為什麼水利署說這100口抗旱井會影響到抗旱的量能，所以我想請次長給本席很清楚的說明。"],["賴次長建信：好的，這個沒有問題。"],["鄭委員正鈐：因為它本身所占的預算就很低，我們又沒有刪，凍的部分你們提出來應該就可以解決，所以我不太能夠理解，為什麼這100口備援井的調查會影響到整個抗旱的量能。"],["賴次長建信：這個資料我會送給委員。第二個部分，其實那麼大的預算，每個預算都有一個工作計畫，每個工作計畫都有它的需要性。"],["鄭委員正鈐：理解。"],["賴次長建信：另外一個部分，剛剛我們沒有討論到的……"],["鄭委員正鈐：因為在經濟部的部分，坦白說，被刪的部分已經算是非常地少了，我們在一輪的時候，減列數只有少少的一筆而已，其實非常地少。"],["賴次長建信：有時候那個關鍵的少數對於關鍵的工作就有很大的影響。"],["鄭委員正鈐：這沒問題，所以我想知道兩千多億預算當中的3億，對於備援井的關鍵影響在哪裡，請你給本席一個很清楚的說法，好不好？"],["賴次長建信：好，沒有問題。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","現在請陳超明委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-6","speakers":["謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","林岱樺","陳亭妃","呂玉玲","張嘉郡","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","賴瑞隆","邱志偉","鄭正鈐","陳超明","鍾佳濱","蔡易餘","葉元之","陳冠廷","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":169,"meetingDate":["2025-03-31"],"gazette_id":"1143301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143301_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長、農業部部長、內政部首長及國家科學及技術委員會首長就「2025年防洪抗旱計\n畫」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143301_00003"}}}