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00:00:57,245\n他已經要跟他合作要瞄準中央部會還有醫療會那個醫療業那還有跟多家的第三方支付整合請問兩位你們是不是有掌握本案對於政府部門和關鍵機構設施的影響先請次長\n\n4\n00:01:00,406 --> 00:01:27,143\n跟委員報告依照我們現在資安署所掌握到的訊息就是資安署主要是要保護政府機構以及關鍵基礎設施的資安目前我們政府跟關鍵基礎設施並沒有收到這一波的資安攻擊的影響這是第一部分我們掌握到第二部分就是說這次的資安攻擊應該是來自於一個駭客組織叫CrazyHunter\n\n5\n00:01:27,563 --> 00:01:55,134\nCrazyHunter就是之前攻擊我們兩家大型醫院的同一個駭客組織是然後他們的成員之中至少有一位是中國籍的事實上昨天刑事警察局已經起訴了一位在中國浙江的一位羅姓的工程師我們認為說好政府就在嚴辦嘛是但是他人可能就在中國好那請問一下我們很擔心會不會後來出現暗網出現出售各自的情況\n\n6\n00:01:56,870 --> 00:02:22,984\n這個目前我們並沒有掌握到這個訊息我們希望不要出現這種情況好來接下來來往下看所謂的電信事業用戶號碼的使用管理辦法這是在去年的4月通常會員就說了我們要訂出這個辦法那其中就要把所謂的虛擬行動網路服務就是剛剛很多委員關係的MVNO要納入責成電信事業要加強管理請問代理主委\n\n7\n00:02:24,028 --> 00:02:45,009\n所謂的責成電信事業要加強管理是責成哪個電信事業一類的是不是這邊用語是一類沒錯是一類沒錯嘛好我們看一下根據這個你們就定根據了電管法的第69條你們定了一個管理辦法然後它的法則呢要回歸到電管法的83條沒錯吧是所以裁罰是裁罰一類業者吧\n\n8\n00:02:46,809 --> 00:03:14,466\n如果他是他的企科但是如果他登記電視業就是採訪他MVMO業者我可以採訪到MVMO業者因為他登記電視業他如果來登記的話好往下看好往下看那這次的修法呢我們是針對呢剛剛說的齁這裡面所提到的所謂的批發轉售啊你這裡呢不能夠再轉再做其他的批發轉售是不是這樣他這是第一條那請問一下目前經營虛擬行動網路服務業者有沒有納入\n\n9\n00:03:15,407 --> 00:03:34,484\n目前有居家有來登記好那麼轉售跟使用智慧虛擬碼或者是物聯網號碼以外的用戶號碼有沒有納入這邊是在我們的號碼權管理法有規範有規範好那麼像所謂的黑莓卡就是銷售境外事業所提供的語音及數據等公共服務的有沒有納入\n\n10\n00:03:35,711 --> 00:03:47,010\n黑莓卡他是用國外的電話嘛他來國內只是漫遊那最快我們在打造條例的時候有在很好你講到打造條例馬上看打造條例打造條例第14條他主要目的是\n\n11\n00:03:47,953 --> 00:04:12,795\n預防阻止要做合理的對應措施對不對16條如果對於轉讓的話我們可以限制或停止這都指一類業者他有辦法這樣做第20條是指國際漫遊服務就剛剛講的黑莓卡那麼我們必須確認他們是出境或逾期拘留如果有資料不實或異常使用剛剛提到了異常使用就會處理請問這幾條是否包含了這裡的電信是不是就是說從事的用戶號碼批發轉售服務的電信業者\n\n12\n00:04:16,428 --> 00:04:45,294\n他要登記的話他就是適用就一類好那麼如果他違反了這樣的這個炸防條例那是不是就依法依炸防條例來罰還是依電管法來罰打掉條例本身他是有罰則應該就一定好那我們再往下看好那現在呢你們現在的這個管理辦法訂的這個管理辦法呢第十條這個業者本身他要去做實地的仿事對不對你覺得一類業者有辦法對他的下手做實地仿事嗎\n\n13\n00:04:46,247 --> 00:05:11,045\n這邊我有跟大家解釋過他是做那個一般性的書面就是相對於跟類似類似形式檢查都是一般性的一般性的嘛對不對好既然是一般性的行政檢查他有辦法去察覺或確認異常使用啊有沒有在做批發轉售啊有辦法察覺嗎那個在我們這個執法的立法書裡面有提到是技術可行的情況之下技術可行才對那如果他沒有辦法做得到\n\n14\n00:05:12,577 --> 00:05:40,226\n限制或終止合約他只能用限制跟終止合約嘛他沒有公權力嘛是不是這樣往下一個是所以目前你們的法律給要求的這個業者所謂的一類業者他沒有公權力所以他如何去落實執行稽查我們那稽查其實並不是公權就是我們要他做一般的對要他做嘛一般的檢察役而已好就是KYO嘛那那請問有責無權那他怎麼你們怎麼去落實這個裁法\n\n15\n00:05:42,793 --> 00:06:03,279\n就是說如果他有登記電信事業的話我們就會罰MEMO業者不會罰這個提供號碼提供號碼給他的或者評論號碼給他的那個三大業者所以我最後就是要請你們具體的告訴我們如果要確實執行納管提供電信服務業者有下列行為的時候包括說第一\n\n16\n00:06:04,459 --> 00:06:23,843\n他透過這個MENO或者是轉售或者是說銷售境外那你們有沒有辦法去執行根據這三種樣態提出一個報告說明好不好怎麼去切實執行當然如果你們覺得有困難的或者技術上不可行的也一併說明可以嗎可以沒問題好謝謝主委謝謝次長謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5253\t17700\t好主席在場的委員先進列席的政務及官司長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請我們陳代理主委MCC還有蘇發部的林次長好蘇衛部林次長\n21451\t43980\t主委好 次長好今天我們來談防制詐騙而少性剝削要有效那麼新型態的電信事業業者要納管好 我們先看最近的新聞兩位知不知道這個京城資訊這是知府的龍頭也出現資安就過去這兩天的大新聞有四萬家企業包括航空跟金融而這個企業這個京城是台灣大哥大\n44980\t57245\t他已經要跟他合作要瞄準中央部會還有醫療會那個醫療業那還有跟多家的第三方支付整合請問兩位你們是不是有掌握本案對於政府部門和關鍵機構設施的影響先請次長\n60406\t87143\t跟委員報告依照我們現在資安署所掌握到的訊息就是資安署主要是要保護政府機構以及關鍵基礎設施的資安目前我們政府跟關鍵基礎設施並沒有收到這一波的資安攻擊的影響這是第一部分我們掌握到第二部分就是說這次的資安攻擊應該是來自於一個駭客組織叫Crazy Hunter\n87563\t115134\tCrazy Hunter就是之前攻擊我們兩家大型醫院的同一個駭客組織是然後他們的成員之中至少有一位是中國籍的事實上昨天刑事警察局已經起訴了一位在中國浙江的一位羅姓的工程師我們認為說好 政府就在嚴辦嘛是 但是他人可能就在中國好 那請問一下我們很擔心會不會後來出現暗網出現出售各自的情況\n116870\t142984\t這個目前我們並沒有掌握到這個訊息我們希望不要出現這種情況好來接下來來往下看所謂的電信事業用戶號碼的使用管理辦法這是在去年的4月通常會員就說了我們要訂出這個辦法那其中就要把所謂的虛擬行動網路服務就是剛剛很多委員關係的MVNO要納入責成電信事業要加強管理請問代理主委\n144028\t165009\t所謂的責成電信事業要加強管理是責成哪個電信事業一類的是不是這邊用語是一類沒錯是一類沒錯嘛好我們看一下根據這個你們就定根據了電管法的第69條你們定了一個管理辦法然後它的法則呢要回歸到電管法的83條沒錯吧是所以裁罰是裁罰一類業者吧\n166809\t194466\t如果他是他的企科但是如果他登記電視業就是採訪他MVMO業者我可以採訪到MVMO業者因為他登記電視業他如果來登記的話好往下看好往下看那這次的修法呢我們是針對呢剛剛說的齁這裡面所提到的所謂的批發轉售啊你這裡呢不能夠再轉再做其他的批發轉售是不是這樣他這是第一條那請問一下目前經營虛擬行動網路服務業者有沒有納入\n195407\t214484\t目前有居家有來登記好那麼轉售跟使用智慧虛擬碼或者是物聯網號碼以外的用戶號碼有沒有納入這邊是在我們的號碼權管理法有規範有規範好那麼像所謂的黑莓卡就是銷售境外事業所提供的語音及數據等公共服務的有沒有納入\n215711\t227010\t黑莓卡他是用國外的電話嘛他來國內只是漫遊那最快我們在打造條例的時候有在很好你講到打造條例馬上看打造條例打造條例第14條他主要目的是\n227953\t252795\t預防阻止要做合理的對應措施對不對16條如果對於轉讓的話我們可以限制或停止這都指一類業者他有辦法這樣做第20條是指國際漫遊服務就剛剛講的黑莓卡那麼我們必須確認他們是出境或逾期拘留如果有資料不實或異常使用剛剛提到了異常使用就會處理請問這幾條是否包含了這裡的電信是不是就是說從事的用戶號碼批發轉售服務的電信業者\n256428\t285294\t他要登記的話他就是適用就一類好那麼如果他違反了這樣的這個炸防條例那是不是就依法依炸防條例來罰還是依電管法來罰打掉條例本身他是有罰則應該就一定好那我們再往下看好那現在呢你們現在的這個管理辦法訂的這個管理辦法呢第十條這個業者本身他要去做實地的仿事對不對你覺得一類業者有辦法對他的下手做實地仿事嗎\n286247\t311045\t這邊我有跟大家解釋過他是做那個一般性的書面就是相對於跟類似類似形式檢查都是一般性的一般性的嘛對不對好既然是一般性的行政檢查他有辦法去察覺或確認異常使用啊有沒有在做批發轉售啊有辦法察覺嗎那個在我們這個執法的立法書裡面有提到是技術可行的情況之下技術可行才對那如果他沒有辦法做得到\n312577\t340226\t限制或終止合約他只能用限制跟終止合約嘛他沒有公權力嘛是不是這樣往下一個是所以目前你們的法律給要求的這個業者所謂的一類業者他沒有公權力所以他如何去落實執行稽查我們那稽查其實並不是公權就是我們要他做一般的對要他做嘛一般的檢察役而已好就是KYO嘛那那請問有責無權那他怎麼你們怎麼去落實這個裁法\n342793\t363279\t就是說如果他有登記電信事業的話我們就會罰MEMO業者不會罰這個提供號碼提供號碼給他的或者評論號碼給他的那個三大業者所以我最後就是要請你們具體的告訴我們如果要確實執行納管提供電信服務業者有下列行為的時候包括說第一\n364459\t383843\t他透過這個MENO或者是轉售或者是說銷售境外那你們有沒有辦法去執行根據這三種樣態提出一個報告說明好不好怎麼去切實執行當然如果你們覺得有困難的或者技術上不可行的也一併說明可以嗎可以沒問題好謝謝主委謝謝次長謝謝\n","txt":"好主席在場的委員先進列席的政務及官司長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請我們陳代理主委MCC還有蘇發部的林次長好蘇衛部林次長\n主委好 次長好今天我們來談防制詐騙而少性剝削要有效那麼新型態的電信事業業者要納管好 我們先看最近的新聞兩位知不知道這個京城資訊這是知府的龍頭也出現資安就過去這兩天的大新聞有四萬家企業包括航空跟金融而這個企業這個京城是台灣大哥大\n他已經要跟他合作要瞄準中央部會還有醫療會那個醫療業那還有跟多家的第三方支付整合請問兩位你們是不是有掌握本案對於政府部門和關鍵機構設施的影響先請次長\n跟委員報告依照我們現在資安署所掌握到的訊息就是資安署主要是要保護政府機構以及關鍵基礎設施的資安目前我們政府跟關鍵基礎設施並沒有收到這一波的資安攻擊的影響這是第一部分我們掌握到第二部分就是說這次的資安攻擊應該是來自於一個駭客組織叫Crazy Hunter\nCrazy Hunter就是之前攻擊我們兩家大型醫院的同一個駭客組織是然後他們的成員之中至少有一位是中國籍的事實上昨天刑事警察局已經起訴了一位在中國浙江的一位羅姓的工程師我們認為說好 政府就在嚴辦嘛是 但是他人可能就在中國好 那請問一下我們很擔心會不會後來出現暗網出現出售各自的情況\n這個目前我們並沒有掌握到這個訊息我們希望不要出現這種情況好來接下來來往下看所謂的電信事業用戶號碼的使用管理辦法這是在去年的4月通常會員就說了我們要訂出這個辦法那其中就要把所謂的虛擬行動網路服務就是剛剛很多委員關係的MVNO要納入責成電信事業要加強管理請問代理主委\n所謂的責成電信事業要加強管理是責成哪個電信事業一類的是不是這邊用語是一類沒錯是一類沒錯嘛好我們看一下根據這個你們就定根據了電管法的第69條你們定了一個管理辦法然後它的法則呢要回歸到電管法的83條沒錯吧是所以裁罰是裁罰一類業者吧\n如果他是他的企科但是如果他登記電視業就是採訪他MVMO業者我可以採訪到MVMO業者因為他登記電視業他如果來登記的話好往下看好往下看那這次的修法呢我們是針對呢剛剛說的齁這裡面所提到的所謂的批發轉售啊你這裡呢不能夠再轉再做其他的批發轉售是不是這樣他這是第一條那請問一下目前經營虛擬行動網路服務業者有沒有納入\n目前有居家有來登記好那麼轉售跟使用智慧虛擬碼或者是物聯網號碼以外的用戶號碼有沒有納入這邊是在我們的號碼權管理法有規範有規範好那麼像所謂的黑莓卡就是銷售境外事業所提供的語音及數據等公共服務的有沒有納入\n黑莓卡他是用國外的電話嘛他來國內只是漫遊那最快我們在打造條例的時候有在很好你講到打造條例馬上看打造條例打造條例第14條他主要目的是\n預防阻止要做合理的對應措施對不對16條如果對於轉讓的話我們可以限制或停止這都指一類業者他有辦法這樣做第20條是指國際漫遊服務就剛剛講的黑莓卡那麼我們必須確認他們是出境或逾期拘留如果有資料不實或異常使用剛剛提到了異常使用就會處理請問這幾條是否包含了這裡的電信是不是就是說從事的用戶號碼批發轉售服務的電信業者\n他要登記的話他就是適用就一類好那麼如果他違反了這樣的這個炸防條例那是不是就依法依炸防條例來罰還是依電管法來罰打掉條例本身他是有罰則應該就一定好那我們再往下看好那現在呢你們現在的這個管理辦法訂的這個管理辦法呢第十條這個業者本身他要去做實地的仿事對不對你覺得一類業者有辦法對他的下手做實地仿事嗎\n這邊我有跟大家解釋過他是做那個一般性的書面就是相對於跟類似類似形式檢查都是一般性的一般性的嘛對不對好既然是一般性的行政檢查他有辦法去察覺或確認異常使用啊有沒有在做批發轉售啊有辦法察覺嗎那個在我們這個執法的立法書裡面有提到是技術可行的情況之下技術可行才對那如果他沒有辦法做得到\n限制或終止合約他只能用限制跟終止合約嘛他沒有公權力嘛是不是這樣往下一個是所以目前你們的法律給要求的這個業者所謂的一類業者他沒有公權力所以他如何去落實執行稽查我們那稽查其實並不是公權就是我們要他做一般的對要他做嘛一般的檢察役而已好就是KYO嘛那那請問有責無權那他怎麼你們怎麼去落實這個裁法\n就是說如果他有登記電信事業的話我們就會罰MEMO業者不會罰這個提供號碼提供號碼給他的或者評論號碼給他的那個三大業者所以我最後就是要請你們具體的告訴我們如果要確實執行納管提供電信服務業者有下列行為的時候包括說第一\n他透過這個MENO或者是轉售或者是說銷售境外那你們有沒有辦法去執行根據這三種樣態提出一個報告說明好不好怎麼去切實執行當然如果你們覺得有困難的或者技術上不可行的也一併說明可以嗎可以沒問題好謝謝主委謝謝次長謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.253 --> 00:17.700\n好主席在場的委員先進列席的政務及官司長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請我們陳代理主委MCC還有蘇發部的林次長好蘇衛部林次長\n\n00:21.451 --> 00:43.980\n主委好次長好今天我們來談防制詐騙而少性剝削要有效那麼新型態的電信事業業者要納管好我們先看最近的新聞兩位知不知道這個京城資訊這是知府的龍頭也出現資安就過去這兩天的大新聞有四萬家企業包括航空跟金融而這個企業這個京城是台灣大哥大\n\n00:44.980 --> 00:57.245\n他已經要跟他合作要瞄準中央部會還有醫療會那個醫療業那還有跟多家的第三方支付整合請問兩位你們是不是有掌握本案對於政府部門和關鍵機構設施的影響先請次長\n\n01:00.406 --> 01:27.143\n跟委員報告依照我們現在資安署所掌握到的訊息就是資安署主要是要保護政府機構以及關鍵基礎設施的資安目前我們政府跟關鍵基礎設施並沒有收到這一波的資安攻擊的影響這是第一部分我們掌握到第二部分就是說這次的資安攻擊應該是來自於一個駭客組織叫CrazyHunter\n\n01:27.563 --> 01:55.134\nCrazyHunter就是之前攻擊我們兩家大型醫院的同一個駭客組織是然後他們的成員之中至少有一位是中國籍的事實上昨天刑事警察局已經起訴了一位在中國浙江的一位羅姓的工程師我們認為說好政府就在嚴辦嘛是但是他人可能就在中國好那請問一下我們很擔心會不會後來出現暗網出現出售各自的情況\n\n01:56.870 --> 02:22.984\n這個目前我們並沒有掌握到這個訊息我們希望不要出現這種情況好來接下來來往下看所謂的電信事業用戶號碼的使用管理辦法這是在去年的4月通常會員就說了我們要訂出這個辦法那其中就要把所謂的虛擬行動網路服務就是剛剛很多委員關係的MVNO要納入責成電信事業要加強管理請問代理主委\n\n02:24.028 --> 02:45.009\n所謂的責成電信事業要加強管理是責成哪個電信事業一類的是不是這邊用語是一類沒錯是一類沒錯嘛好我們看一下根據這個你們就定根據了電管法的第69條你們定了一個管理辦法然後它的法則呢要回歸到電管法的83條沒錯吧是所以裁罰是裁罰一類業者吧\n\n02:46.809 --> 03:14.466\n如果他是他的企科但是如果他登記電視業就是採訪他MVMO業者我可以採訪到MVMO業者因為他登記電視業他如果來登記的話好往下看好往下看那這次的修法呢我們是針對呢剛剛說的齁這裡面所提到的所謂的批發轉售啊你這裡呢不能夠再轉再做其他的批發轉售是不是這樣他這是第一條那請問一下目前經營虛擬行動網路服務業者有沒有納入\n\n03:15.407 --> 03:34.484\n目前有居家有來登記好那麼轉售跟使用智慧虛擬碼或者是物聯網號碼以外的用戶號碼有沒有納入這邊是在我們的號碼權管理法有規範有規範好那麼像所謂的黑莓卡就是銷售境外事業所提供的語音及數據等公共服務的有沒有納入\n\n03:35.711 --> 03:47.010\n黑莓卡他是用國外的電話嘛他來國內只是漫遊那最快我們在打造條例的時候有在很好你講到打造條例馬上看打造條例打造條例第14條他主要目的是\n\n03:47.953 --> 04:12.795\n預防阻止要做合理的對應措施對不對16條如果對於轉讓的話我們可以限制或停止這都指一類業者他有辦法這樣做第20條是指國際漫遊服務就剛剛講的黑莓卡那麼我們必須確認他們是出境或逾期拘留如果有資料不實或異常使用剛剛提到了異常使用就會處理請問這幾條是否包含了這裡的電信是不是就是說從事的用戶號碼批發轉售服務的電信業者\n\n04:16.428 --> 04:45.294\n他要登記的話他就是適用就一類好那麼如果他違反了這樣的這個炸防條例那是不是就依法依炸防條例來罰還是依電管法來罰打掉條例本身他是有罰則應該就一定好那我們再往下看好那現在呢你們現在的這個管理辦法訂的這個管理辦法呢第十條這個業者本身他要去做實地的仿事對不對你覺得一類業者有辦法對他的下手做實地仿事嗎\n\n04:46.247 --> 05:11.045\n這邊我有跟大家解釋過他是做那個一般性的書面就是相對於跟類似類似形式檢查都是一般性的一般性的嘛對不對好既然是一般性的行政檢查他有辦法去察覺或確認異常使用啊有沒有在做批發轉售啊有辦法察覺嗎那個在我們這個執法的立法書裡面有提到是技術可行的情況之下技術可行才對那如果他沒有辦法做得到\n\n05:12.577 --> 05:40.226\n限制或終止合約他只能用限制跟終止合約嘛他沒有公權力嘛是不是這樣往下一個是所以目前你們的法律給要求的這個業者所謂的一類業者他沒有公權力所以他如何去落實執行稽查我們那稽查其實並不是公權就是我們要他做一般的對要他做嘛一般的檢察役而已好就是KYO嘛那那請問有責無權那他怎麼你們怎麼去落實這個裁法\n\n05:42.793 --> 06:03.279\n就是說如果他有登記電信事業的話我們就會罰MEMO業者不會罰這個提供號碼提供號碼給他的或者評論號碼給他的那個三大業者所以我最後就是要請你們具體的告訴我們如果要確實執行納管提供電信服務業者有下列行為的時候包括說第一\n\n06:04.459 --> 06:23.843\n他透過這個MENO或者是轉售或者是說銷售境外那你們有沒有辦法去執行根據這三種樣態提出一個報告說明好不好怎麼去切實執行當然如果你們覺得有困難的或者技術上不可行的也一併說明可以嗎可以沒問題好謝謝主委謝謝次長謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.253,"end":17.7,"text":"好主席在場的委員先進列席的政務及官司長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請我們陳代理主委MCC還有蘇發部的林次長好蘇衛部林次長"},{"start":21.451,"end":43.98,"text":"主委好 次長好今天我們來談防制詐騙而少性剝削要有效那麼新型態的電信事業業者要納管好 我們先看最近的新聞兩位知不知道這個京城資訊這是知府的龍頭也出現資安就過去這兩天的大新聞有四萬家企業包括航空跟金融而這個企業這個京城是台灣大哥大"},{"start":44.98,"end":57.245,"text":"他已經要跟他合作要瞄準中央部會還有醫療會那個醫療業那還有跟多家的第三方支付整合請問兩位你們是不是有掌握本案對於政府部門和關鍵機構設施的影響先請次長"},{"start":60.406,"end":87.143,"text":"跟委員報告依照我們現在資安署所掌握到的訊息就是資安署主要是要保護政府機構以及關鍵基礎設施的資安目前我們政府跟關鍵基礎設施並沒有收到這一波的資安攻擊的影響這是第一部分我們掌握到第二部分就是說這次的資安攻擊應該是來自於一個駭客組織叫Crazy Hunter"},{"start":87.563,"end":115.134,"text":"Crazy Hunter就是之前攻擊我們兩家大型醫院的同一個駭客組織是然後他們的成員之中至少有一位是中國籍的事實上昨天刑事警察局已經起訴了一位在中國浙江的一位羅姓的工程師我們認為說好 政府就在嚴辦嘛是 但是他人可能就在中國好 那請問一下我們很擔心會不會後來出現暗網出現出售各自的情況"},{"start":116.87,"end":142.984,"text":"這個目前我們並沒有掌握到這個訊息我們希望不要出現這種情況好來接下來來往下看所謂的電信事業用戶號碼的使用管理辦法這是在去年的4月通常會員就說了我們要訂出這個辦法那其中就要把所謂的虛擬行動網路服務就是剛剛很多委員關係的MVNO要納入責成電信事業要加強管理請問代理主委"},{"start":144.028,"end":165.009,"text":"所謂的責成電信事業要加強管理是責成哪個電信事業一類的是不是這邊用語是一類沒錯是一類沒錯嘛好我們看一下根據這個你們就定根據了電管法的第69條你們定了一個管理辦法然後它的法則呢要回歸到電管法的83條沒錯吧是所以裁罰是裁罰一類業者吧"},{"start":166.809,"end":194.466,"text":"如果他是他的企科但是如果他登記電視業就是採訪他MVMO業者我可以採訪到MVMO業者因為他登記電視業他如果來登記的話好往下看好往下看那這次的修法呢我們是針對呢剛剛說的齁這裡面所提到的所謂的批發轉售啊你這裡呢不能夠再轉再做其他的批發轉售是不是這樣他這是第一條那請問一下目前經營虛擬行動網路服務業者有沒有納入"},{"start":195.407,"end":214.484,"text":"目前有居家有來登記好那麼轉售跟使用智慧虛擬碼或者是物聯網號碼以外的用戶號碼有沒有納入這邊是在我們的號碼權管理法有規範有規範好那麼像所謂的黑莓卡就是銷售境外事業所提供的語音及數據等公共服務的有沒有納入"},{"start":215.711,"end":227.01,"text":"黑莓卡他是用國外的電話嘛他來國內只是漫遊那最快我們在打造條例的時候有在很好你講到打造條例馬上看打造條例打造條例第14條他主要目的是"},{"start":227.953,"end":252.795,"text":"預防阻止要做合理的對應措施對不對16條如果對於轉讓的話我們可以限制或停止這都指一類業者他有辦法這樣做第20條是指國際漫遊服務就剛剛講的黑莓卡那麼我們必須確認他們是出境或逾期拘留如果有資料不實或異常使用剛剛提到了異常使用就會處理請問這幾條是否包含了這裡的電信是不是就是說從事的用戶號碼批發轉售服務的電信業者"},{"start":256.428,"end":285.294,"text":"他要登記的話他就是適用就一類好那麼如果他違反了這樣的這個炸防條例那是不是就依法依炸防條例來罰還是依電管法來罰打掉條例本身他是有罰則應該就一定好那我們再往下看好那現在呢你們現在的這個管理辦法訂的這個管理辦法呢第十條這個業者本身他要去做實地的仿事對不對你覺得一類業者有辦法對他的下手做實地仿事嗎"},{"start":286.247,"end":311.045,"text":"這邊我有跟大家解釋過他是做那個一般性的書面就是相對於跟類似類似形式檢查都是一般性的一般性的嘛對不對好既然是一般性的行政檢查他有辦法去察覺或確認異常使用啊有沒有在做批發轉售啊有辦法察覺嗎那個在我們這個執法的立法書裡面有提到是技術可行的情況之下技術可行才對那如果他沒有辦法做得到"},{"start":312.577,"end":340.226,"text":"限制或終止合約他只能用限制跟終止合約嘛他沒有公權力嘛是不是這樣往下一個是所以目前你們的法律給要求的這個業者所謂的一類業者他沒有公權力所以他如何去落實執行稽查我們那稽查其實並不是公權就是我們要他做一般的對要他做嘛一般的檢察役而已好就是KYO嘛那那請問有責無權那他怎麼你們怎麼去落實這個裁法"},{"start":342.793,"end":363.279,"text":"就是說如果他有登記電信事業的話我們就會罰MEMO業者不會罰這個提供號碼提供號碼給他的或者評論號碼給他的那個三大業者所以我最後就是要請你們具體的告訴我們如果要確實執行納管提供電信服務業者有下列行為的時候包括說第一"},{"start":364.459,"end":383.843,"text":"他透過這個MENO或者是轉售或者是說銷售境外那你們有沒有辦法去執行根據這三種樣態提出一個報告說明好不好怎麼去切實執行當然如果你們覺得有困難的或者技術上不可行的也一併說明可以嗎可以沒問題好謝謝主委謝謝次長謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":760,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（12時27分）主席、在場委員先進、列席政府機關首長官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士、先生。有請NCC陳代理主委。"],["主席：請陳代理主委。"],["鍾委員佳濱：還有數發部林次長。"],["主席：請數位部林次長。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：主委好、次長好。今天我們來談「防制詐騙兒少性剝削要有效，新型態電信事業業者要納管」，我們先看最近的新聞，不曉得兩位知不知道？精誠資訊是資服的龍頭，竟然也出現資安危機，這是過去這兩天的大新聞，它有四萬家企業客戶，包括航空跟金融，台灣大哥大已經要跟精誠合作，瞄準中央部會、醫療業，還有跟多家的第三方支付整合。請問兩位，你們是不是有掌握本案對於政府部門和關鍵基礎設施的影響？先請次長說明。"],["林次長宜敬：跟委員報告，依照現在資安署所掌握到的訊息……資安署主要是保護政府機構以及關鍵基礎設施的資安，目前政府跟關鍵基礎設施並沒有受到這一波資安攻擊的影響，這是第一部分我們掌握到的。第二個部分，這次的資安攻擊應該是來自於一個駭客組織叫Crazy 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Hunter就是之前攻擊我們兩家大型醫院的同一個駭客組織，他們的成員之中至少有一位是中國籍的。事實上，昨天刑事警察局已經起訴一位在中國浙江的羅姓工程師。我們認為……"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，政府就是要嚴辦嘛！"],["林次長宜敬：是，但是他人可能在中國。"],["鍾委員佳濱：當然。請問一下，我們很擔心會不會後來出現暗網、出售個資的情況。"],["林次長宜敬：目前我們並沒有掌握到這個訊息，可能……"],["鍾委員佳濱：我們希望不要出現這種情況。"],["林次長宜敬：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：接下來，所謂的電信事業用戶號碼使用管理辦法，去年4月通傳會就說我們要訂出這個辦法，其中要把虛擬行動網路服務，也就是剛剛很多委員關心的MVNO納入，責成電信事業應加強管理。請問代理主委，所謂的責成電信事業應加強管理是責成哪個電信事業？一類的是不是？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：以這邊的用語是一類的沒錯。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是一類沒錯嘛！根據電管法第六十九條，你們訂了一個管理辦法，然後罰則要回歸電管法第八十三條沒錯吧！"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以裁罰是裁罰一類業者吧？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：如果他是他的企客，如果他登記的是電信事業，就是裁罰MVNO業者。"],["鍾委員佳濱：可以裁罰到MVNO業者？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：對，因為他登記的是電信事業。"],["鍾委員佳濱：也就是他如果有登記的話。好，我們往下看，這次的修法針對我們剛剛提到的批發轉售，這裡不能夠再做其他的批發轉售，是不是這樣？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：對……"],["鍾委員佳濱：它是針對第十一條，那請問一下目前經營虛擬行動網路服務業者有沒有納入？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：目前有7家來登記。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，那麼轉售跟使用智慧虛擬碼或者是物聯網號碼以外的用戶號碼有沒有納入？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：這在我們的號碼使用管理法裡面有規範。"],["鍾委員佳濱：有規範？好，像所謂的黑莓卡，也就是銷售境外事業所提供的語音及數據等公共服務的部分有沒有納入？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：黑莓卡是用國外的電話號碼，他來國內只是漫遊，針對這一塊，我們在打詐條例有……"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好，你講到打詐條例，我們馬上來看打詐條例，打詐條例第十四條主要目的是預防、阻止或其他合理對應措施，對不對？第十六條規定對於轉讓的話，我們可以限制或停止，這都只有一類業者才有辦法這樣做。第二十條是針對國際漫遊服務，也就是我們剛剛講的黑莓卡，我們必須確認他們是不是出境或逾期居留，如果有資料不實或異常使用就可以處理。請問這裡的電信業者是不是就是指從事用戶號碼批發轉售服務的電信業者？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：他來登記的話，他就是適用……"],["鍾委員佳濱：就是一類？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，如果他違反了這樣的詐防條例，是不是就依詐防條例來罰？還是依電管法來罰？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：打詐條例本身有罰則，應該就依它來罰。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，我們再往下看，依照你們現在訂的管理辦法第十條，業者本身要去實地訪視對不對？你覺得一類業者有辦法對他的下手實地訪視嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：這邊我有跟大家解釋過了，他是做一般性的……"],["鍾委員佳濱：書面？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：就是類似形式檢查，都是一般性的……"],["鍾委員佳濱：一般性的嘛，對不對？既然是一般性的形式檢查，他有辦法去察覺或確認異常使用或是有沒有在做批發轉售嗎？有辦法察覺嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：那個在我們子法的立法說明有提到，是技術可行的情況之下。"],["鍾委員佳濱：技術可行才可以？如果他沒有辦法做得到，就只能限制或終止合約，他只能用限制跟終止合約，因為他沒有公權力嘛，是不是這樣？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：目前你們的法律要求所謂的一類業者，但是他沒有公權力，他如何去落實執行稽查？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：我們的稽查其實並不是公權力，我們要他做一般的檢查業務而已。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，就是KYO嘛！有責無權，請問你們怎麼去落實這個裁罰？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：如果他有來登記電信事業的話，我們就會罰MVNO業者，不會罰提供號碼給他或評定號碼給他的三大業者。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以我最後就是要請你們具體告訴我們，如果要確實執行納管，提供電信服務業者有下列行為的時候，包括他透過MVNO、轉售或銷售境外，你們有沒有辦法去執行？根據這三種樣態提出一個報告說明好不好？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：好，我們……"],["鍾委員佳濱：怎麼去確實執行？當然如果你們覺得有困難或者技術上不可行的也一併說明，可以嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：可以，沒問題。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝主委、謝謝次長。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝鍾佳濱委員。","現在請張啓楷委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":272,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-5","speakers":["林國成","張啓楷","陳俊宇","鍾佳濱","黃健豪","洪孟楷","陳雪生","林俊憲","何欣純","徐富癸","蔡其昌","陳素月","魯明哲","李昆澤","邱若華","廖先翔","王鴻薇","游顥","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","許智傑","麥玉珍"],"page_start":207,"meetingDate":["2025-04-02"],"gazette_id":"1143401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143401_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查國家通訊傳播委員會函為修正「應經核准之電信管制射頻器材」、「電信管制射頻器材\n製造輸入及申報作業管理辦法」及「電信管理業務規費收費標準」第十四條條文案；二、審查\n(一)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「電信管理法第五條、第八條及第七十九條條文修正草案」案、(二)\n台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「電信管理法第五條及第八條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)委員鍾佳濱等21\n人擬具「電信管理法第五條、第九條及第七十九條條文修正草案」案、(四)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具\n「電信管理法第九條及第四十條條文修正草案」案及(五)委員陳俊宇等19人擬具「電信管理法第\n七十五條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1143401_00009"}}}