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0.927}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 52.465, \"end\": 52.566, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 52.566, \"end\": 52.706, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 52.706, \"end\": 52.966, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 52.966, \"end\": 53.166, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 53.166, \"end\": 53.326, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"展\", \"start\": 53.326, \"end\": 53.726, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"示\", \"start\": 53.726, \"end\": 53.906, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 53.906, \"end\": 54.046, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 54.046, \"end\": 54.166, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 54.166, \"end\": 54.266, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 54.266, \"end\": 54.466, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 54.466, \"end\": 54.626, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 54.626, \"end\": 54.847, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 54.847, \"end\": 55.047, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 55.047, \"end\": 55.627, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 55.627, \"end\": 55.807, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 55.807, \"end\": 55.947, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 55.947, \"end\": 56.027, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 56.027, \"end\": 56.167, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"功\", \"start\": 56.167, \"end\": 56.347, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 56.347, \"end\": 56.507, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 56.507, \"end\": 56.727, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 56.727, \"end\": 56.887, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 56.887, \"end\": 57.508, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 57.508, \"end\": 58.088, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 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\"start\": 64.991, \"end\": 65.491, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"評\"}, {\"word\": \"估\", \"start\": 65.491, \"end\": 66.091, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 66.091, \"end\": 66.211, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 66.211, \"end\": 66.252, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 66.252, \"end\": 66.292, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 66.292, \"end\": 66.512, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 66.512, \"end\": 66.652, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 66.652, \"end\": 66.852, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 66.852, \"end\": 67.452, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 67.452, \"end\": 67.632, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 67.632, \"end\": 67.852, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 67.852, \"end\": 68.512, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 68.512, \"end\": 68.613, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 68.613, \"end\": 68.953, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"車\"}, {\"word\": \"站\", \"start\": 68.953, \"end\": 69.113, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 69.113, \"end\": 69.233, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 69.233, \"end\": 69.373, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 69.373, \"end\": 69.853, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 69.853, \"end\": 70.313, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 70.313, \"end\": 70.433, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 70.433, \"end\": 70.733, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"門\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 70.733, \"end\": 70.834, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 70.834, \"end\": 70.914, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 70.914, \"end\": 70.934, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 72.094, \"end\": 101.297, \"text\": \"我很好奇這個關於評估的標的到底是什麼因為你說年底完工然後就開始試做試辦然後看看這個績效如何狀況如何但我很好奇台鐵內部或者是一般人因為只要每次台鐵上了新聞相關的那個鐵路鐵道迷的朋友們的留言都是幾乎是網路上最熱烈但我很好奇台鐵內部自己專家的意見或者是專家學者的意見或是你們那個評估的標的到底是什麼\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 72.094, \"end\": 72.194, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 72.194, \"end\": 72.294, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 72.294, \"end\": 72.554, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"奇\", \"start\": 72.554, \"end\": 73.215, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 73.215, \"end\": 73.795, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"評\"}, {\"word\": \"估\", \"start\": 73.795, \"end\": 73.996, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 73.996, \"end\": 74.796, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 74.796, \"end\": 74.896, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 74.896, \"end\": 75.036, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 75.036, \"end\": 75.156, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 75.156, \"end\": 75.317, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 75.317, \"end\": 75.597, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 75.597, \"end\": 75.757, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 75.757, \"end\": 75.997, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 75.997, \"end\": 76.177, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 76.177, \"end\": 76.297, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 76.297, \"end\": 76.558, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 76.558, \"end\": 77.078, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 77.078, \"end\": 77.158, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 77.158, \"end\": 77.278, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 77.278, \"end\": 77.498, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"始\", \"start\": 77.498, \"end\": 77.959, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"試\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 77.959, 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\"end\": 85.905, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"每\", \"start\": 85.905, \"end\": 86.045, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 86.045, \"end\": 86.185, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 86.185, \"end\": 86.485, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"鐵\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 86.485, \"end\": 86.645, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 86.645, \"end\": 86.765, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 86.765, \"end\": 87.506, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"聞\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 87.506, \"end\": 87.806, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 87.806, \"end\": 87.886, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 87.886, \"end\": 88.387, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"鐵\"}, {\"word\": \"路\", \"start\": 88.387, \"end\": 91.209, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"鐵\"}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 91.209, \"end\": 91.429, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"迷\", \"start\": 91.429, \"end\": 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94.511, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"熱\"}, {\"word\": \"烈\", \"start\": 94.511, \"end\": 94.712, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 94.712, \"end\": 94.872, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 94.872, \"end\": 94.992, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 94.992, \"end\": 95.132, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 95.132, \"end\": 95.452, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"奇\", \"start\": 95.452, \"end\": 95.792, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 95.792, \"end\": 96.533, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"鐵\"}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 96.533, \"end\": 96.753, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 96.753, \"end\": 96.933, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"己\", \"start\": 96.933, \"end\": 97.133, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"專\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 97.133, \"end\": 97.314, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 97.314, \"end\": 97.394, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 97.394, \"end\": 97.814, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"見\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 97.814, \"end\": 97.954, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 97.954, \"end\": 98.074, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 98.074, \"end\": 98.394, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"專\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 98.394, \"end\": 98.514, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 98.514, \"end\": 98.655, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 98.655, \"end\": 98.755, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 98.755, \"end\": 98.815, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 98.815, \"end\": 99.155, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"見\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 99.155, \"end\": 99.255, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 99.255, \"end\": 99.375, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 99.375, \"end\": 100.116, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 100.116, \"end\": 100.296, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"評\"}, {\"word\": \"估\", \"start\": 100.296, \"end\": 100.436, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 100.436, \"end\": 100.756, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 100.756, \"end\": 100.876, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 100.876, \"end\": 101.016, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 101.016, \"end\": 101.116, \"score\": 0.717}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 101.116, \"end\": 101.277, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 101.277, \"end\": 101.297, \"score\": 0.07}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}]}, {\"start\": 103.969, \"end\": 123.355, \"text\": \"我跟委員報告因為台鐵的車種非常多那這個為什麼是事半就是剛剛講的我們把它弄完之後我們去針對每一個車型然後去做一些討論有些的功能是不是應該增加有些功能是不是應該減少我想就是在這個時候我們來做所以才會到年底的時候才把這個事半的部分完成\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 103.969, \"end\": 104.089, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 104.089, \"end\": 104.209, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 104.209, \"end\": 104.529, 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\"所謂好好處理值的事就是剛剛講的我們會跟我們的路警局可以這個橫向溝通更清楚因為其實他們對周遭的哪些的人員可能會去做過切到這樣的一個動作應該都有掌握\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 357.395, \"end\": 357.595, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"謂\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 357.595, \"end\": 357.735, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 357.735, \"end\": 357.895, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 357.895, \"end\": 358.255, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"值\", \"start\": 358.255, \"end\": 358.375, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 358.375, \"end\": 358.596, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 358.596, \"end\": 358.716, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 358.716, \"end\": 358.796, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 358.796, \"end\": 359.516, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 359.516, \"end\": 359.596, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 359.596, \"end\": 360.056, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"握\", \"start\": 372.322, \"end\": 372.342, \"score\": 0.608}]}, {\"start\": 372.642, \"end\": 390.559, \"text\": \"好 所以次長你已經說出兩個字你認為這是單純的竊盜事件而且是個案性的事件目前看是這樣好 沒有問題我們可以接受這個說法但是我們也是要參考我認為相關事件真的很有可能在台灣發生在巴黎奧運的開幕當天法國鐵路網就遭到惡意的攻擊\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 372.642, \"end\": 372.882, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 372.882, \"end\": 372.962, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 372.962, \"end\": 373.102, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 373.102, \"end\": 373.443, \"score\": 0.784}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 373.443, \"end\": 373.603, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 373.603, \"end\": 373.923, \"score\": 0.776}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 373.923, \"end\": 374.344, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 374.344, \"end\": 374.484, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 374.484, \"end\": 374.984, \"score\": 0.705}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 374.984, \"end\": 375.445, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"純\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 375.445, \"end\": 376.005, \"score\": 0.7}, {\"word\": \"竊\"}, {\"word\": \"盜\"}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 376.005, \"end\": 376.246, \"score\": 0.639}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 376.246, \"end\": 376.666, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 376.666, \"end\": 376.806, \"score\": 0.635}, {\"word\": \"且\", \"start\": 376.806, \"end\": 376.966, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 376.966, \"end\": 377.267, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 377.267, \"end\": 377.547, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 377.547, \"end\": 377.707, \"score\": 0.774}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 377.707, \"end\": 377.867, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 377.867, \"end\": 378.047, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"受\", \"start\": 380.51, \"end\": 381.17, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 381.17, \"end\": 381.551, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 381.551, \"end\": 381.691, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 381.691, \"end\": 381.791, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 381.791, \"end\": 382.011, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 382.011, \"end\": 382.191, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 382.191, \"end\": 382.311, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 382.311, \"end\": 382.832, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"參\"}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 382.832, \"end\": 383.052, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 383.052, \"end\": 383.893, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 383.893, \"end\": 384.333, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"事\", 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{\"word\": \"黎\", \"start\": 386.996, \"end\": 387.456, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"奧\"}, {\"word\": \"運\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 387.456, \"end\": 387.817, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"幕\", \"start\": 387.817, \"end\": 388.197, \"score\": 0.714}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 388.197, \"end\": 388.397, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 388.397, \"end\": 388.858, \"score\": 0.775}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"鐵\"}, {\"word\": \"路\", \"start\": 388.858, \"end\": 389.138, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"網\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 389.138, \"end\": 389.298, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"遭\", \"start\": 389.298, \"end\": 389.458, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 389.458, \"end\": 390.239, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"惡\"}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 390.239, \"end\": 390.399, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 390.399, \"end\": 390.539, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"攻\", 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641.692, \"end\": 641.712, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,346 --> 00:00:04,068\n好謝謝主席那有請次長謝謝請次長\n\n2\n00:00:14,110 --> 00:00:43,239\n委員好好市長辛苦了台鐵真的有很多問題需要改善喔這兩天的新聞我相信你一定都非常清楚不管是這個月台門的問題或者是這個安全的問題還有這個人翻覆過翻爬過去的問題我很好奇喔台鐵在相關事情上的規劃進度因為我知道台鐵一直有在做這個相關的規劃目前為止就您所掌握的進度不管是規劃事辦安裝纜繩月台門或者是安全門跟日本介進的這個部分我想要知道你們目前的進度\n\n3\n00:00:44,642 --> 00:01:10,934\n我跟委員報告這個月台門部分我們做一個事半的一個工程是在高雄車站那這部分目前的展示的部分已經放上去了那後面的功能目前在設計我們預計在年底可以完成整個一個測試那在明年的三月可以把這個完工完工之後我們再評估是不是在其他的月台的其他車站的部分來進行這個月台門的一個規劃好\n\n4\n00:01:12,094 --> 00:01:41,297\n我很好奇這個關於評估的標的到底是什麼因為你說年底完工然後就開始試做試辦然後看看這個績效如何狀況如何但我很好奇台鐵內部或者是一般人因為只要每次台鐵上了新聞相關的那個鐵路鐵道迷的朋友們的留言都是幾乎是網路上最熱烈但我很好奇台鐵內部自己專家的意見或者是專家學者的意見或是你們那個評估的標的到底是什麼\n\n5\n00:01:43,969 --> 00:02:03,355\n我跟委員報告因為台鐵的車種非常多那這個為什麼是事半就是剛剛講的我們把它弄完之後我們去針對每一個車型然後去做一些討論有些的功能是不是應該增加有些功能是不是應該減少我想就是在這個時候我們來做所以才會到年底的時候才把這個事半的部分完成\n\n6\n00:02:03,755 --> 00:02:24,572\n其實次長你講到關鍵就是因為車型的樣態非常多然後每一個月台的狀況也不一樣還有呢就是如果這些狀況搭配組合起來那個排列組合的樣態會非常非常多那如果其實在這些為什麼一直有嗶嗶聲那個手機轉接您好不好等一下吵到大家\n\n7\n00:02:32,227 --> 00:02:40,631\n好主席我的時間好沒關係好其實日本在這件事情上我相信台鐵應該有接近日本的經驗那日本的經驗他們\n\n8\n00:02:42,216 --> 00:03:09,235\n的狀態可能跟次長您也講的差不多就是呢月台的樣態非常多元然後車種的樣態也非常多元所以排列組合起來他們所必須做的事情其實也非常非常的困難那日本的經驗他們其實已經告訴我們了相關成本非常昂貴保養的維運也很花時間又很花錢而且在現在各行各業普遍缺工的情況下這件事情做起來更加困難還有月台門也可能因為故障失效反而變成另外一個\n\n9\n00:03:09,935 --> 00:03:19,277\n另外一個危安的因素所以我也很好奇台鐵在這件事情上後續到底長期的規劃是什麼或者是說我們只能短期短期來看我們沒有辦法往長期去想\n\n10\n00:03:20,273 --> 00:03:39,420\n我想還是剛剛所講的因為它是個師辦那這裡面我們一開始其實研討加了很多功能那過一陣子我們剛講開始做了以後我們去討論這些功能是否完全必要那我們這邊是希望是自主開發居多還是以日本的系統搬過來用然後做一些改良為主\n\n11\n00:03:40,300 --> 00:04:07,355\n我們不見得說一定是參考以哪一個國家的金額為主我想是依照我們目前我們台鐵公司的樣態來做比較實在好如果是這樣那代表我們會有自主開發成分是高的那如果自主開發成分是高的我要拜託次長不管後續您或後續的董事長是誰我認為在中間實測的過程當中我們在自主開發所會遇到的困難不管是經驗上的困難或者是人力上的困難專業上的困難\n\n12\n00:04:09,216 --> 00:04:23,684\n這件事情我們到底如何解決還是我們每次都只選一些固定的站點做一些示範然後好像就可以對安全這件事情有所交代我認為人民還是有疑慮的所以要拜託次長要把這個問題帶回去繼續作為一個非常重要的施政參考\n\n13\n00:04:24,924 --> 00:04:53,053\n那我知道台鐵在2019年曾經有做過智慧影像辨識的事情當時我們討論到因為有隱私的問題還有相關系統可能有中國製的產品的問題所以就喊停那我要提醒次長2019的AI到了2025的AI樣他已經不一樣了那台灣有沒有能力自己做這件事情有沒有相關的評估你覺得我們有沒有機會往這一段去評估用AI重新啟動作為輔助防止越台漢市的可能性\n\n14\n00:04:54,374 --> 00:05:10,329\n這確實在2019的時候曾經有想要試辦那剛剛就提到了因為有隱私權大概那時候大概外界對這有點意見那現在剛剛講AI應用很普遍我想除了我們編播之外我想這部分我們可以來研討看看\n\n15\n00:05:10,549 --> 00:05:37,137\n好那我希望你們帶回去研討這件事情因為我相信台灣是應該有能力自己做這件事情如果按照您說的剛剛纜繩越台也好安全門也好台鐵有更多自主研發的空間我認為一併把AI系統納入應該是可行的好嗎好這一題我們之後也會往下追喔在接下來小年夜北中南電纜遭到接連破壞當時王定宇委員提醒說可能會有國安的疑慮我想問一下目前這個案子追查的進度是如何\n\n16\n00:05:38,205 --> 00:05:56,373\n跟委員報告,這個案子已經破案了,應該只是附近的相關人士為了貪圖,他要去賣那個銅線的這樣的物料,獲取一點金錢那這個已經破案了,我想這後面,我們後面會好好再去處理\n\n17\n00:05:57,395 --> 00:06:12,342\n所謂好好處理值的事就是剛剛講的我們會跟我們的路警局可以這個橫向溝通更清楚因為其實他們對周遭的哪些的人員可能會去做過切到這樣的一個動作應該都有掌握\n\n18\n00:06:12,642 --> 00:06:30,559\n好所以次長你已經說出兩個字你認為這是單純的竊盜事件而且是個案性的事件目前看是這樣好沒有問題我們可以接受這個說法但是我們也是要參考我認為相關事件真的很有可能在台灣發生在巴黎奧運的開幕當天法國鐵路網就遭到惡意的攻擊\n\n19\n00:06:31,300 --> 00:06:48,636\n那我認為在目前的情況下台灣不是沒有機會遇到相關國安的問題在台鐵的整個系統當中你自己有沒有想過這件事情在台鐵目前系整個運作系統當中的因應能力到哪裡或者是整個因應系統的準備我們現在做到哪裡了\n\n20\n00:06:49,176 --> 00:07:15,471\n是這個我想這個我去台鐵以後我有發現這個問題我覺得它真的很重要因為台鐵畢竟是他們的一個骨幹藝術骨幹那針對治安的部分我想那時候跟我們的資訊處我們希望能夠針對整個驗證導入第三者來做治安可以達到A級的這樣的一個等級我想這部分我們後續會再去做努力\n\n21\n00:07:16,051 --> 00:07:38,704\n資安的部分歸資安我剛剛提的其實不大是資安但是我覺得我很感謝你提到資安的部分如果在您的代理董事長的任內真的可以完成相關A級資安的認證我認為這件事情是會讓國人放心也會讓台灣整體社會的韌性是因此提高可是我要提醒相關台鐵的演習劇本目前都只有停留在列車事故對吧\n\n22\n00:07:41,392 --> 00:08:01,683\n所以你們的目標是動員災防反恐可是相關社會任性的概念目前有沒有放進台鐵的演習劇本當中連賴清德總統都要親自主持社會任性因應防疫委員會那我不知道台鐵作為台灣運輸主要的骨幹尤其如果在各種緊急狀況的時候我們有沒有這樣的能力去面對這個事情\n\n23\n00:08:03,224 --> 00:08:26,041\n這個部分剛講任性的部分我們目前也會把它導進來這是我們未來要努力的這個我們來做好這個你們來做我就先把這個概念提出來那到底加入社會任性這個部分要做哪些事情我相信台鐵應該有能力去研究就算如果台鐵自己能力不足也許可以委託外面的專家學者或是跟社會任性防疫委員會討論\n\n24\n00:08:27,722 --> 00:08:50,777\n最後一個這兩天有這個新聞要突襲檢查關於駕駛室的事情因為我們說有這個列車駕駛停車失檔然後台鐵的回應是說要增加突襲檢查但是我看到相關的新聞有工會的代表受訪認為突襲檢查會增加駕駛員的壓力那我很好奇到底這件事情你們未來要怎麼做\n\n25\n00:08:52,422 --> 00:09:21,041\n我講說這個其實第一個我先講那個不叫所謂的突襲檢查可是你們新聞是這樣說的不是絕對不是突襲我們是剛講會加強飢餓但是絕對不是用突襲檢查的方式他是靠站的時候我們過去裡面到裡面去看也就是有點是一個指導員到裡面去看他的一些動作有沒有正常之類的那至於影音的這個價值式影音的這個記錄問題其實在幾年前就已經一直在談那當然同仁有一些\n\n26\n00:09:22,482 --> 00:09:45,120\n有一些不一樣的考慮到說隱私的部分之類的我想這部分我覺得最終正道應該是這個還是比較正道啦應該要去設置這個影音紀錄一個問題因為包括北捷啦其他的大概都有設置這個我們後面會來繼續跟同仁來溝通好謝謝次長有承擔自己主動講出關於這個影音紀錄的問題\n\n27\n00:09:46,081 --> 00:10:05,866\n因為如果要增加突襲檢查或者是所謂集合員進到駕駛室其實你需要增加人力而且如果駕駛員是有反彈的我認為需要溝通可是我知道我前一輪的質詢其實我在去年六月我就有問過影印記錄的問題我知道當時很多工會的成員是反對的我們就公開的說但是在工會成員反對必須要兼顧他們的隱私\n\n28\n00:10:06,266 --> 00:10:23,863\n又兼顧國人的用車安全這件事情上我認為是需要溝通需要討論如何讓所有這些工會成員認為他們是被尊重的不是被窺探的不是被監視的但是我們的行政機關還是願意對國人的用車安全表示負責我認為這件事情非常非常的困難\n\n29\n00:10:24,483 --> 00:10:41,712\n所以如果次長您剛主動講到其實連北捷高鐵都有這個所謂影像紀錄這件事情但如果台鐵要加裝會遇到的困難要拜託次長真的積極的解決也許跟工會成員討論了也許我們還有更多社會溝通需要進行是這是我們應該做的好謝謝謝謝次長謝謝主席謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2346\t4068\t好 謝謝主席 那有請次長 謝謝請次長\n14110\t43239\t委員好好 市長辛苦了台鐵真的有很多問題需要改善喔這兩天的新聞我相信你一定都非常清楚不管是這個月台門的問題或者是這個安全的問題還有這個人翻覆過翻爬過去的問題我很好奇喔台鐵在相關事情上的規劃進度因為我知道台鐵一直有在做這個相關的規劃目前為止就您所掌握的進度不管是規劃事辦安裝纜繩月台門或者是安全門跟日本介進的這個部分我想要知道你們目前的進度\n44642\t70934\t我跟委員報告這個月台門部分我們做一個事半的一個工程是在高雄車站那這部分目前的展示的部分已經放上去了那後面的功能目前在設計我們預計在年底可以完成整個一個測試那在明年的三月可以把這個完工完工之後我們再評估是不是在其他的月台的其他車站的部分來進行這個月台門的一個規劃好\n72094\t101297\t我很好奇這個關於評估的標的到底是什麼因為你說年底完工然後就開始試做試辦然後看看這個績效如何狀況如何但我很好奇台鐵內部或者是一般人因為只要每次台鐵上了新聞相關的那個鐵路鐵道迷的朋友們的留言都是幾乎是網路上最熱烈但我很好奇台鐵內部自己專家的意見或者是專家學者的意見或是你們那個評估的標的到底是什麼\n103969\t123355\t我跟委員報告因為台鐵的車種非常多那這個為什麼是事半就是剛剛講的我們把它弄完之後我們去針對每一個車型然後去做一些討論有些的功能是不是應該增加有些功能是不是應該減少我想就是在這個時候我們來做所以才會到年底的時候才把這個事半的部分完成\n123755\t144572\t其實次長你講到關鍵就是因為車型的樣態非常多然後每一個月台的狀況也不一樣還有呢就是如果這些狀況搭配組合起來那個排列組合的樣態會非常非常多那如果其實在這些為什麼一直有嗶嗶聲那個手機轉接您好不好等一下吵到大家\n152227\t160631\t好主席我的時間好沒關係好其實日本在這件事情上我相信台鐵應該有接近日本的經驗那日本的經驗他們\n162216\t189235\t的狀態可能跟次長您也講的差不多就是呢月台的樣態非常多元然後車種的樣態也非常多元所以排列組合起來他們所必須做的事情其實也非常非常的困難那日本的經驗他們其實已經告訴我們了相關成本非常昂貴保養的維運也很花時間又很花錢而且在現在各行各業普遍缺工的情況下這件事情做起來更加困難還有月台門也可能因為故障失效反而變成另外一個\n189935\t199277\t另外一個危安的因素所以我也很好奇台鐵在這件事情上後續到底長期的規劃是什麼或者是說我們只能短期短期來看我們沒有辦法往長期去想\n200273\t219420\t我想還是剛剛所講的因為它是個師辦那這裡面我們一開始其實研討加了很多功能那過一陣子我們剛講開始做了以後我們去討論這些功能是否完全必要那我們這邊是希望是自主開發居多還是以日本的系統搬過來用然後做一些改良為主\n220300\t247355\t我們不見得說一定是參考以哪一個國家的金額為主我想是依照我們目前我們台鐵公司的樣態來做比較實在好如果是這樣那代表我們會有自主開發成分是高的那如果自主開發成分是高的我要拜託次長不管後續您或後續的董事長是誰我認為在中間實測的過程當中我們在自主開發所會遇到的困難不管是經驗上的困難或者是人力上的困難專業上的困難\n249216\t263684\t這件事情我們到底如何解決還是我們每次都只選一些固定的站點做一些示範然後好像就可以對安全這件事情有所交代我認為人民還是有疑慮的所以要拜託次長要把這個問題帶回去繼續作為一個非常重要的施政參考\n264924\t293053\t那我知道台鐵在2019年曾經有做過智慧影像辨識的事情當時我們討論到因為有隱私的問題還有相關系統可能有中國製的產品的問題所以就喊停那我要提醒次長2019的AI到了2025的AI樣他已經不一樣了那台灣有沒有能力自己做這件事情有沒有相關的評估你覺得我們有沒有機會往這一段去評估用AI重新啟動作為輔助防止越台漢市的可能性\n294374\t310329\t這確實在2019的時候曾經有想要試辦那剛剛就提到了因為有隱私權大概那時候大概外界對這有點意見那現在剛剛講AI應用很普遍我想除了我們編播之外我想這部分我們可以來研討看看\n310549\t337137\t好那我希望你們帶回去研討這件事情因為我相信台灣是應該有能力自己做這件事情如果按照您說的剛剛纜繩越台也好安全門也好台鐵有更多自主研發的空間我認為一併把AI系統納入應該是可行的好嗎好這一題我們之後也會往下追喔在接下來小年夜北中南電纜遭到接連破壞當時王定宇委員提醒說可能會有國安的疑慮我想問一下目前這個案子追查的進度是如何\n338205\t356373\t跟委員報告,這個案子已經破案了,應該只是附近的相關人士為了貪圖,他要去賣那個銅線的這樣的物料,獲取一點金錢那這個已經破案了,我想這後面,我們後面會好好再去處理\n357395\t372342\t所謂好好處理值的事就是剛剛講的我們會跟我們的路警局可以這個橫向溝通更清楚因為其實他們對周遭的哪些的人員可能會去做過切到這樣的一個動作應該都有掌握\n372642\t390559\t好 所以次長你已經說出兩個字你認為這是單純的竊盜事件而且是個案性的事件目前看是這樣好 沒有問題我們可以接受這個說法但是我們也是要參考我認為相關事件真的很有可能在台灣發生在巴黎奧運的開幕當天法國鐵路網就遭到惡意的攻擊\n391300\t408636\t那我認為在目前的情況下台灣不是沒有機會遇到相關國安的問題在台鐵的整個系統當中你自己有沒有想過這件事情在台鐵目前系整個運作系統當中的因應能力到哪裡或者是整個因應系統的準備我們現在做到哪裡了\n409176\t435471\t是這個我想這個我去台鐵以後我有發現這個問題我覺得它真的很重要因為台鐵畢竟是他們的一個骨幹藝術骨幹那針對治安的部分我想那時候跟我們的資訊處我們希望能夠針對整個驗證導入第三者來做治安可以達到A級的這樣的一個等級我想這部分我們後續會再去做努力\n436051\t458704\t資安的部分歸資安 我剛剛提的其實不大是資安但是我覺得我很感謝你提到資安的部分如果在您的代理董事長的任內真的可以完成相關A級資安的認證我認為這件事情是會讓國人放心也會讓台灣整體社會的韌性是因此提高可是我要提醒 相關台鐵的演習劇本目前都只有停留在列車事故 對吧\n461392\t481683\t所以你們的目標是動員災防反恐可是相關社會任性的概念目前有沒有放進台鐵的演習劇本當中連賴清德總統都要親自主持社會任性因應防疫委員會那我不知道台鐵作為台灣運輸主要的骨幹尤其如果在各種緊急狀況的時候我們有沒有這樣的能力去面對這個事情\n483224\t506041\t這個部分剛講任性的部分我們目前也會把它導進來這是我們未來要努力的這個我們來做好 這個你們來做我就先把這個概念提出來那到底加入社會任性這個部分要做哪些事情我相信台鐵應該有能力去研究就算如果台鐵自己能力不足也許可以委託外面的專家學者或是跟社會任性防疫委員會討論\n507722\t530777\t最後一個這兩天有這個新聞要突襲檢查關於駕駛室的事情因為我們說有這個列車駕駛停車失檔然後台鐵的回應是說要增加突襲檢查但是我看到相關的新聞有工會的代表受訪認為突襲檢查會增加駕駛員的壓力那我很好奇到底這件事情你們未來要怎麼做\n532422\t561041\t我講說這個其實第一個我先講那個不叫所謂的突襲檢查可是你們新聞是這樣說的不是絕對不是突襲我們是剛講會加強飢餓但是絕對不是用突襲檢查的方式他是靠站的時候我們過去裡面到裡面去看也就是有點是一個指導員到裡面去看他的一些動作有沒有正常之類的那至於影音的這個價值式影音的這個記錄問題其實在幾年前就已經一直在談那當然同仁有一些\n562482\t585120\t有一些不一樣的考慮到說隱私的部分之類的我想這部分我覺得最終正道應該是這個還是比較正道啦應該要去設置這個影音紀錄一個問題因為包括北捷啦其他的大概都有設置這個我們後面會來繼續跟同仁來溝通好 謝謝次長有承擔自己主動講出關於這個影音紀錄的問題\n586081\t605866\t因為如果要增加突襲檢查或者是所謂集合員進到駕駛室其實你需要增加人力而且如果駕駛員是有反彈的我認為需要溝通可是我知道我前一輪的質詢其實我在去年六月我就有問過影印記錄的問題我知道當時很多工會的成員是反對的我們就公開的說但是在工會成員反對必須要兼顧他們的隱私\n606266\t623863\t又兼顧國人的用車安全這件事情上我認為是需要溝通 需要討論如何讓所有這些工會成員認為他們是被尊重的不是被窺探的 不是被監視的但是我們的行政機關還是願意對國人的用車安全表示負責我認為這件事情非常非常的困難\n624483\t641712\t所以如果次長您剛主動講到其實連北捷高鐵都有這個所謂影像紀錄這件事情但如果台鐵要加裝會遇到的困難要拜託次長真的積極的解決也許跟工會成員討論了也許我們還有更多社會溝通需要進行是這是我們應該做的好謝謝謝謝次長謝謝主席謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 那有請次長 謝謝請次長\n委員好好 市長辛苦了台鐵真的有很多問題需要改善喔這兩天的新聞我相信你一定都非常清楚不管是這個月台門的問題或者是這個安全的問題還有這個人翻覆過翻爬過去的問題我很好奇喔台鐵在相關事情上的規劃進度因為我知道台鐵一直有在做這個相關的規劃目前為止就您所掌握的進度不管是規劃事辦安裝纜繩月台門或者是安全門跟日本介進的這個部分我想要知道你們目前的進度\n我跟委員報告這個月台門部分我們做一個事半的一個工程是在高雄車站那這部分目前的展示的部分已經放上去了那後面的功能目前在設計我們預計在年底可以完成整個一個測試那在明年的三月可以把這個完工完工之後我們再評估是不是在其他的月台的其他車站的部分來進行這個月台門的一個規劃好\n我很好奇這個關於評估的標的到底是什麼因為你說年底完工然後就開始試做試辦然後看看這個績效如何狀況如何但我很好奇台鐵內部或者是一般人因為只要每次台鐵上了新聞相關的那個鐵路鐵道迷的朋友們的留言都是幾乎是網路上最熱烈但我很好奇台鐵內部自己專家的意見或者是專家學者的意見或是你們那個評估的標的到底是什麼\n我跟委員報告因為台鐵的車種非常多那這個為什麼是事半就是剛剛講的我們把它弄完之後我們去針對每一個車型然後去做一些討論有些的功能是不是應該增加有些功能是不是應該減少我想就是在這個時候我們來做所以才會到年底的時候才把這個事半的部分完成\n其實次長你講到關鍵就是因為車型的樣態非常多然後每一個月台的狀況也不一樣還有呢就是如果這些狀況搭配組合起來那個排列組合的樣態會非常非常多那如果其實在這些為什麼一直有嗶嗶聲那個手機轉接您好不好等一下吵到大家\n好主席我的時間好沒關係好其實日本在這件事情上我相信台鐵應該有接近日本的經驗那日本的經驗他們\n的狀態可能跟次長您也講的差不多就是呢月台的樣態非常多元然後車種的樣態也非常多元所以排列組合起來他們所必須做的事情其實也非常非常的困難那日本的經驗他們其實已經告訴我們了相關成本非常昂貴保養的維運也很花時間又很花錢而且在現在各行各業普遍缺工的情況下這件事情做起來更加困難還有月台門也可能因為故障失效反而變成另外一個\n另外一個危安的因素所以我也很好奇台鐵在這件事情上後續到底長期的規劃是什麼或者是說我們只能短期短期來看我們沒有辦法往長期去想\n我想還是剛剛所講的因為它是個師辦那這裡面我們一開始其實研討加了很多功能那過一陣子我們剛講開始做了以後我們去討論這些功能是否完全必要那我們這邊是希望是自主開發居多還是以日本的系統搬過來用然後做一些改良為主\n我們不見得說一定是參考以哪一個國家的金額為主我想是依照我們目前我們台鐵公司的樣態來做比較實在好如果是這樣那代表我們會有自主開發成分是高的那如果自主開發成分是高的我要拜託次長不管後續您或後續的董事長是誰我認為在中間實測的過程當中我們在自主開發所會遇到的困難不管是經驗上的困難或者是人力上的困難專業上的困難\n這件事情我們到底如何解決還是我們每次都只選一些固定的站點做一些示範然後好像就可以對安全這件事情有所交代我認為人民還是有疑慮的所以要拜託次長要把這個問題帶回去繼續作為一個非常重要的施政參考\n那我知道台鐵在2019年曾經有做過智慧影像辨識的事情當時我們討論到因為有隱私的問題還有相關系統可能有中國製的產品的問題所以就喊停那我要提醒次長2019的AI到了2025的AI樣他已經不一樣了那台灣有沒有能力自己做這件事情有沒有相關的評估你覺得我們有沒有機會往這一段去評估用AI重新啟動作為輔助防止越台漢市的可能性\n這確實在2019的時候曾經有想要試辦那剛剛就提到了因為有隱私權大概那時候大概外界對這有點意見那現在剛剛講AI應用很普遍我想除了我們編播之外我想這部分我們可以來研討看看\n好那我希望你們帶回去研討這件事情因為我相信台灣是應該有能力自己做這件事情如果按照您說的剛剛纜繩越台也好安全門也好台鐵有更多自主研發的空間我認為一併把AI系統納入應該是可行的好嗎好這一題我們之後也會往下追喔在接下來小年夜北中南電纜遭到接連破壞當時王定宇委員提醒說可能會有國安的疑慮我想問一下目前這個案子追查的進度是如何\n跟委員報告,這個案子已經破案了,應該只是附近的相關人士為了貪圖,他要去賣那個銅線的這樣的物料,獲取一點金錢那這個已經破案了,我想這後面,我們後面會好好再去處理\n所謂好好處理值的事就是剛剛講的我們會跟我們的路警局可以這個橫向溝通更清楚因為其實他們對周遭的哪些的人員可能會去做過切到這樣的一個動作應該都有掌握\n好 所以次長你已經說出兩個字你認為這是單純的竊盜事件而且是個案性的事件目前看是這樣好 沒有問題我們可以接受這個說法但是我們也是要參考我認為相關事件真的很有可能在台灣發生在巴黎奧運的開幕當天法國鐵路網就遭到惡意的攻擊\n那我認為在目前的情況下台灣不是沒有機會遇到相關國安的問題在台鐵的整個系統當中你自己有沒有想過這件事情在台鐵目前系整個運作系統當中的因應能力到哪裡或者是整個因應系統的準備我們現在做到哪裡了\n是這個我想這個我去台鐵以後我有發現這個問題我覺得它真的很重要因為台鐵畢竟是他們的一個骨幹藝術骨幹那針對治安的部分我想那時候跟我們的資訊處我們希望能夠針對整個驗證導入第三者來做治安可以達到A級的這樣的一個等級我想這部分我們後續會再去做努力\n資安的部分歸資安 我剛剛提的其實不大是資安但是我覺得我很感謝你提到資安的部分如果在您的代理董事長的任內真的可以完成相關A級資安的認證我認為這件事情是會讓國人放心也會讓台灣整體社會的韌性是因此提高可是我要提醒 相關台鐵的演習劇本目前都只有停留在列車事故 對吧\n所以你們的目標是動員災防反恐可是相關社會任性的概念目前有沒有放進台鐵的演習劇本當中連賴清德總統都要親自主持社會任性因應防疫委員會那我不知道台鐵作為台灣運輸主要的骨幹尤其如果在各種緊急狀況的時候我們有沒有這樣的能力去面對這個事情\n這個部分剛講任性的部分我們目前也會把它導進來這是我們未來要努力的這個我們來做好 這個你們來做我就先把這個概念提出來那到底加入社會任性這個部分要做哪些事情我相信台鐵應該有能力去研究就算如果台鐵自己能力不足也許可以委託外面的專家學者或是跟社會任性防疫委員會討論\n最後一個這兩天有這個新聞要突襲檢查關於駕駛室的事情因為我們說有這個列車駕駛停車失檔然後台鐵的回應是說要增加突襲檢查但是我看到相關的新聞有工會的代表受訪認為突襲檢查會增加駕駛員的壓力那我很好奇到底這件事情你們未來要怎麼做\n我講說這個其實第一個我先講那個不叫所謂的突襲檢查可是你們新聞是這樣說的不是絕對不是突襲我們是剛講會加強飢餓但是絕對不是用突襲檢查的方式他是靠站的時候我們過去裡面到裡面去看也就是有點是一個指導員到裡面去看他的一些動作有沒有正常之類的那至於影音的這個價值式影音的這個記錄問題其實在幾年前就已經一直在談那當然同仁有一些\n有一些不一樣的考慮到說隱私的部分之類的我想這部分我覺得最終正道應該是這個還是比較正道啦應該要去設置這個影音紀錄一個問題因為包括北捷啦其他的大概都有設置這個我們後面會來繼續跟同仁來溝通好 謝謝次長有承擔自己主動講出關於這個影音紀錄的問題\n因為如果要增加突襲檢查或者是所謂集合員進到駕駛室其實你需要增加人力而且如果駕駛員是有反彈的我認為需要溝通可是我知道我前一輪的質詢其實我在去年六月我就有問過影印記錄的問題我知道當時很多工會的成員是反對的我們就公開的說但是在工會成員反對必須要兼顧他們的隱私\n又兼顧國人的用車安全這件事情上我認為是需要溝通 需要討論如何讓所有這些工會成員認為他們是被尊重的不是被窺探的 不是被監視的但是我們的行政機關還是願意對國人的用車安全表示負責我認為這件事情非常非常的困難\n所以如果次長您剛主動講到其實連北捷高鐵都有這個所謂影像紀錄這件事情但如果台鐵要加裝會遇到的困難要拜託次長真的積極的解決也許跟工會成員討論了也許我們還有更多社會溝通需要進行是這是我們應該做的好謝謝謝謝次長謝謝主席謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.346 --> 00:04.068\n好謝謝主席那有請次長謝謝請次長\n\n00:14.110 --> 00:43.239\n委員好好市長辛苦了台鐵真的有很多問題需要改善喔這兩天的新聞我相信你一定都非常清楚不管是這個月台門的問題或者是這個安全的問題還有這個人翻覆過翻爬過去的問題我很好奇喔台鐵在相關事情上的規劃進度因為我知道台鐵一直有在做這個相關的規劃目前為止就您所掌握的進度不管是規劃事辦安裝纜繩月台門或者是安全門跟日本介進的這個部分我想要知道你們目前的進度\n\n00:44.642 --> 01:10.934\n我跟委員報告這個月台門部分我們做一個事半的一個工程是在高雄車站那這部分目前的展示的部分已經放上去了那後面的功能目前在設計我們預計在年底可以完成整個一個測試那在明年的三月可以把這個完工完工之後我們再評估是不是在其他的月台的其他車站的部分來進行這個月台門的一個規劃好\n\n01:12.094 --> 01:41.297\n我很好奇這個關於評估的標的到底是什麼因為你說年底完工然後就開始試做試辦然後看看這個績效如何狀況如何但我很好奇台鐵內部或者是一般人因為只要每次台鐵上了新聞相關的那個鐵路鐵道迷的朋友們的留言都是幾乎是網路上最熱烈但我很好奇台鐵內部自己專家的意見或者是專家學者的意見或是你們那個評估的標的到底是什麼\n\n01:43.969 --> 02:03.355\n我跟委員報告因為台鐵的車種非常多那這個為什麼是事半就是剛剛講的我們把它弄完之後我們去針對每一個車型然後去做一些討論有些的功能是不是應該增加有些功能是不是應該減少我想就是在這個時候我們來做所以才會到年底的時候才把這個事半的部分完成\n\n02:03.755 --> 02:24.572\n其實次長你講到關鍵就是因為車型的樣態非常多然後每一個月台的狀況也不一樣還有呢就是如果這些狀況搭配組合起來那個排列組合的樣態會非常非常多那如果其實在這些為什麼一直有嗶嗶聲那個手機轉接您好不好等一下吵到大家\n\n02:32.227 --> 02:40.631\n好主席我的時間好沒關係好其實日本在這件事情上我相信台鐵應該有接近日本的經驗那日本的經驗他們\n\n02:42.216 --> 03:09.235\n的狀態可能跟次長您也講的差不多就是呢月台的樣態非常多元然後車種的樣態也非常多元所以排列組合起來他們所必須做的事情其實也非常非常的困難那日本的經驗他們其實已經告訴我們了相關成本非常昂貴保養的維運也很花時間又很花錢而且在現在各行各業普遍缺工的情況下這件事情做起來更加困難還有月台門也可能因為故障失效反而變成另外一個\n\n03:09.935 --> 03:19.277\n另外一個危安的因素所以我也很好奇台鐵在這件事情上後續到底長期的規劃是什麼或者是說我們只能短期短期來看我們沒有辦法往長期去想\n\n03:20.273 --> 03:39.420\n我想還是剛剛所講的因為它是個師辦那這裡面我們一開始其實研討加了很多功能那過一陣子我們剛講開始做了以後我們去討論這些功能是否完全必要那我們這邊是希望是自主開發居多還是以日本的系統搬過來用然後做一些改良為主\n\n03:40.300 --> 04:07.355\n我們不見得說一定是參考以哪一個國家的金額為主我想是依照我們目前我們台鐵公司的樣態來做比較實在好如果是這樣那代表我們會有自主開發成分是高的那如果自主開發成分是高的我要拜託次長不管後續您或後續的董事長是誰我認為在中間實測的過程當中我們在自主開發所會遇到的困難不管是經驗上的困難或者是人力上的困難專業上的困難\n\n04:09.216 --> 04:23.684\n這件事情我們到底如何解決還是我們每次都只選一些固定的站點做一些示範然後好像就可以對安全這件事情有所交代我認為人民還是有疑慮的所以要拜託次長要把這個問題帶回去繼續作為一個非常重要的施政參考\n\n04:24.924 --> 04:53.053\n那我知道台鐵在2019年曾經有做過智慧影像辨識的事情當時我們討論到因為有隱私的問題還有相關系統可能有中國製的產品的問題所以就喊停那我要提醒次長2019的AI到了2025的AI樣他已經不一樣了那台灣有沒有能力自己做這件事情有沒有相關的評估你覺得我們有沒有機會往這一段去評估用AI重新啟動作為輔助防止越台漢市的可能性\n\n04:54.374 --> 05:10.329\n這確實在2019的時候曾經有想要試辦那剛剛就提到了因為有隱私權大概那時候大概外界對這有點意見那現在剛剛講AI應用很普遍我想除了我們編播之外我想這部分我們可以來研討看看\n\n05:10.549 --> 05:37.137\n好那我希望你們帶回去研討這件事情因為我相信台灣是應該有能力自己做這件事情如果按照您說的剛剛纜繩越台也好安全門也好台鐵有更多自主研發的空間我認為一併把AI系統納入應該是可行的好嗎好這一題我們之後也會往下追喔在接下來小年夜北中南電纜遭到接連破壞當時王定宇委員提醒說可能會有國安的疑慮我想問一下目前這個案子追查的進度是如何\n\n05:38.205 --> 05:56.373\n跟委員報告,這個案子已經破案了,應該只是附近的相關人士為了貪圖,他要去賣那個銅線的這樣的物料,獲取一點金錢那這個已經破案了,我想這後面,我們後面會好好再去處理\n\n05:57.395 --> 06:12.342\n所謂好好處理值的事就是剛剛講的我們會跟我們的路警局可以這個橫向溝通更清楚因為其實他們對周遭的哪些的人員可能會去做過切到這樣的一個動作應該都有掌握\n\n06:12.642 --> 06:30.559\n好所以次長你已經說出兩個字你認為這是單純的竊盜事件而且是個案性的事件目前看是這樣好沒有問題我們可以接受這個說法但是我們也是要參考我認為相關事件真的很有可能在台灣發生在巴黎奧運的開幕當天法國鐵路網就遭到惡意的攻擊\n\n06:31.300 --> 06:48.636\n那我認為在目前的情況下台灣不是沒有機會遇到相關國安的問題在台鐵的整個系統當中你自己有沒有想過這件事情在台鐵目前系整個運作系統當中的因應能力到哪裡或者是整個因應系統的準備我們現在做到哪裡了\n\n06:49.176 --> 07:15.471\n是這個我想這個我去台鐵以後我有發現這個問題我覺得它真的很重要因為台鐵畢竟是他們的一個骨幹藝術骨幹那針對治安的部分我想那時候跟我們的資訊處我們希望能夠針對整個驗證導入第三者來做治安可以達到A級的這樣的一個等級我想這部分我們後續會再去做努力\n\n07:16.051 --> 07:38.704\n資安的部分歸資安我剛剛提的其實不大是資安但是我覺得我很感謝你提到資安的部分如果在您的代理董事長的任內真的可以完成相關A級資安的認證我認為這件事情是會讓國人放心也會讓台灣整體社會的韌性是因此提高可是我要提醒相關台鐵的演習劇本目前都只有停留在列車事故對吧\n\n07:41.392 --> 08:01.683\n所以你們的目標是動員災防反恐可是相關社會任性的概念目前有沒有放進台鐵的演習劇本當中連賴清德總統都要親自主持社會任性因應防疫委員會那我不知道台鐵作為台灣運輸主要的骨幹尤其如果在各種緊急狀況的時候我們有沒有這樣的能力去面對這個事情\n\n08:03.224 --> 08:26.041\n這個部分剛講任性的部分我們目前也會把它導進來這是我們未來要努力的這個我們來做好這個你們來做我就先把這個概念提出來那到底加入社會任性這個部分要做哪些事情我相信台鐵應該有能力去研究就算如果台鐵自己能力不足也許可以委託外面的專家學者或是跟社會任性防疫委員會討論\n\n08:27.722 --> 08:50.777\n最後一個這兩天有這個新聞要突襲檢查關於駕駛室的事情因為我們說有這個列車駕駛停車失檔然後台鐵的回應是說要增加突襲檢查但是我看到相關的新聞有工會的代表受訪認為突襲檢查會增加駕駛員的壓力那我很好奇到底這件事情你們未來要怎麼做\n\n08:52.422 --> 09:21.041\n我講說這個其實第一個我先講那個不叫所謂的突襲檢查可是你們新聞是這樣說的不是絕對不是突襲我們是剛講會加強飢餓但是絕對不是用突襲檢查的方式他是靠站的時候我們過去裡面到裡面去看也就是有點是一個指導員到裡面去看他的一些動作有沒有正常之類的那至於影音的這個價值式影音的這個記錄問題其實在幾年前就已經一直在談那當然同仁有一些\n\n09:22.482 --> 09:45.120\n有一些不一樣的考慮到說隱私的部分之類的我想這部分我覺得最終正道應該是這個還是比較正道啦應該要去設置這個影音紀錄一個問題因為包括北捷啦其他的大概都有設置這個我們後面會來繼續跟同仁來溝通好謝謝次長有承擔自己主動講出關於這個影音紀錄的問題\n\n09:46.081 --> 10:05.866\n因為如果要增加突襲檢查或者是所謂集合員進到駕駛室其實你需要增加人力而且如果駕駛員是有反彈的我認為需要溝通可是我知道我前一輪的質詢其實我在去年六月我就有問過影印記錄的問題我知道當時很多工會的成員是反對的我們就公開的說但是在工會成員反對必須要兼顧他們的隱私\n\n10:06.266 --> 10:23.863\n又兼顧國人的用車安全這件事情上我認為是需要溝通需要討論如何讓所有這些工會成員認為他們是被尊重的不是被窺探的不是被監視的但是我們的行政機關還是願意對國人的用車安全表示負責我認為這件事情非常非常的困難\n\n10:24.483 --> 10:41.712\n所以如果次長您剛主動講到其實連北捷高鐵都有這個所謂影像紀錄這件事情但如果台鐵要加裝會遇到的困難要拜託次長真的積極的解決也許跟工會成員討論了也許我們還有更多社會溝通需要進行是這是我們應該做的好謝謝謝謝次長謝謝主席謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.346,"end":4.068,"text":"好 謝謝主席 那有請次長 謝謝請次長"},{"start":14.11,"end":43.239,"text":"委員好好 市長辛苦了台鐵真的有很多問題需要改善喔這兩天的新聞我相信你一定都非常清楚不管是這個月台門的問題或者是這個安全的問題還有這個人翻覆過翻爬過去的問題我很好奇喔台鐵在相關事情上的規劃進度因為我知道台鐵一直有在做這個相關的規劃目前為止就您所掌握的進度不管是規劃事辦安裝纜繩月台門或者是安全門跟日本介進的這個部分我想要知道你們目前的進度"},{"start":44.642,"end":70.934,"text":"我跟委員報告這個月台門部分我們做一個事半的一個工程是在高雄車站那這部分目前的展示的部分已經放上去了那後面的功能目前在設計我們預計在年底可以完成整個一個測試那在明年的三月可以把這個完工完工之後我們再評估是不是在其他的月台的其他車站的部分來進行這個月台門的一個規劃好"},{"start":72.094,"end":101.297,"text":"我很好奇這個關於評估的標的到底是什麼因為你說年底完工然後就開始試做試辦然後看看這個績效如何狀況如何但我很好奇台鐵內部或者是一般人因為只要每次台鐵上了新聞相關的那個鐵路鐵道迷的朋友們的留言都是幾乎是網路上最熱烈但我很好奇台鐵內部自己專家的意見或者是專家學者的意見或是你們那個評估的標的到底是什麼"},{"start":103.969,"end":123.355,"text":"我跟委員報告因為台鐵的車種非常多那這個為什麼是事半就是剛剛講的我們把它弄完之後我們去針對每一個車型然後去做一些討論有些的功能是不是應該增加有些功能是不是應該減少我想就是在這個時候我們來做所以才會到年底的時候才把這個事半的部分完成"},{"start":123.755,"end":144.572,"text":"其實次長你講到關鍵就是因為車型的樣態非常多然後每一個月台的狀況也不一樣還有呢就是如果這些狀況搭配組合起來那個排列組合的樣態會非常非常多那如果其實在這些為什麼一直有嗶嗶聲那個手機轉接您好不好等一下吵到大家"},{"start":152.227,"end":160.631,"text":"好主席我的時間好沒關係好其實日本在這件事情上我相信台鐵應該有接近日本的經驗那日本的經驗他們"},{"start":162.216,"end":189.235,"text":"的狀態可能跟次長您也講的差不多就是呢月台的樣態非常多元然後車種的樣態也非常多元所以排列組合起來他們所必須做的事情其實也非常非常的困難那日本的經驗他們其實已經告訴我們了相關成本非常昂貴保養的維運也很花時間又很花錢而且在現在各行各業普遍缺工的情況下這件事情做起來更加困難還有月台門也可能因為故障失效反而變成另外一個"},{"start":189.935,"end":199.277,"text":"另外一個危安的因素所以我也很好奇台鐵在這件事情上後續到底長期的規劃是什麼或者是說我們只能短期短期來看我們沒有辦法往長期去想"},{"start":200.273,"end":219.42,"text":"我想還是剛剛所講的因為它是個師辦那這裡面我們一開始其實研討加了很多功能那過一陣子我們剛講開始做了以後我們去討論這些功能是否完全必要那我們這邊是希望是自主開發居多還是以日本的系統搬過來用然後做一些改良為主"},{"start":220.3,"end":247.355,"text":"我們不見得說一定是參考以哪一個國家的金額為主我想是依照我們目前我們台鐵公司的樣態來做比較實在好如果是這樣那代表我們會有自主開發成分是高的那如果自主開發成分是高的我要拜託次長不管後續您或後續的董事長是誰我認為在中間實測的過程當中我們在自主開發所會遇到的困難不管是經驗上的困難或者是人力上的困難專業上的困難"},{"start":249.216,"end":263.684,"text":"這件事情我們到底如何解決還是我們每次都只選一些固定的站點做一些示範然後好像就可以對安全這件事情有所交代我認為人民還是有疑慮的所以要拜託次長要把這個問題帶回去繼續作為一個非常重要的施政參考"},{"start":264.924,"end":293.053,"text":"那我知道台鐵在2019年曾經有做過智慧影像辨識的事情當時我們討論到因為有隱私的問題還有相關系統可能有中國製的產品的問題所以就喊停那我要提醒次長2019的AI到了2025的AI樣他已經不一樣了那台灣有沒有能力自己做這件事情有沒有相關的評估你覺得我們有沒有機會往這一段去評估用AI重新啟動作為輔助防止越台漢市的可能性"},{"start":294.374,"end":310.329,"text":"這確實在2019的時候曾經有想要試辦那剛剛就提到了因為有隱私權大概那時候大概外界對這有點意見那現在剛剛講AI應用很普遍我想除了我們編播之外我想這部分我們可以來研討看看"},{"start":310.549,"end":337.137,"text":"好那我希望你們帶回去研討這件事情因為我相信台灣是應該有能力自己做這件事情如果按照您說的剛剛纜繩越台也好安全門也好台鐵有更多自主研發的空間我認為一併把AI系統納入應該是可行的好嗎好這一題我們之後也會往下追喔在接下來小年夜北中南電纜遭到接連破壞當時王定宇委員提醒說可能會有國安的疑慮我想問一下目前這個案子追查的進度是如何"},{"start":338.205,"end":356.373,"text":"跟委員報告,這個案子已經破案了,應該只是附近的相關人士為了貪圖,他要去賣那個銅線的這樣的物料,獲取一點金錢那這個已經破案了,我想這後面,我們後面會好好再去處理"},{"start":357.395,"end":372.342,"text":"所謂好好處理值的事就是剛剛講的我們會跟我們的路警局可以這個橫向溝通更清楚因為其實他們對周遭的哪些的人員可能會去做過切到這樣的一個動作應該都有掌握"},{"start":372.642,"end":390.559,"text":"好 所以次長你已經說出兩個字你認為這是單純的竊盜事件而且是個案性的事件目前看是這樣好 沒有問題我們可以接受這個說法但是我們也是要參考我認為相關事件真的很有可能在台灣發生在巴黎奧運的開幕當天法國鐵路網就遭到惡意的攻擊"},{"start":391.3,"end":408.636,"text":"那我認為在目前的情況下台灣不是沒有機會遇到相關國安的問題在台鐵的整個系統當中你自己有沒有想過這件事情在台鐵目前系整個運作系統當中的因應能力到哪裡或者是整個因應系統的準備我們現在做到哪裡了"},{"start":409.176,"end":435.471,"text":"是這個我想這個我去台鐵以後我有發現這個問題我覺得它真的很重要因為台鐵畢竟是他們的一個骨幹藝術骨幹那針對治安的部分我想那時候跟我們的資訊處我們希望能夠針對整個驗證導入第三者來做治安可以達到A級的這樣的一個等級我想這部分我們後續會再去做努力"},{"start":436.051,"end":458.704,"text":"資安的部分歸資安 我剛剛提的其實不大是資安但是我覺得我很感謝你提到資安的部分如果在您的代理董事長的任內真的可以完成相關A級資安的認證我認為這件事情是會讓國人放心也會讓台灣整體社會的韌性是因此提高可是我要提醒 相關台鐵的演習劇本目前都只有停留在列車事故 對吧"},{"start":461.392,"end":481.683,"text":"所以你們的目標是動員災防反恐可是相關社會任性的概念目前有沒有放進台鐵的演習劇本當中連賴清德總統都要親自主持社會任性因應防疫委員會那我不知道台鐵作為台灣運輸主要的骨幹尤其如果在各種緊急狀況的時候我們有沒有這樣的能力去面對這個事情"},{"start":483.224,"end":506.041,"text":"這個部分剛講任性的部分我們目前也會把它導進來這是我們未來要努力的這個我們來做好 這個你們來做我就先把這個概念提出來那到底加入社會任性這個部分要做哪些事情我相信台鐵應該有能力去研究就算如果台鐵自己能力不足也許可以委託外面的專家學者或是跟社會任性防疫委員會討論"},{"start":507.722,"end":530.777,"text":"最後一個這兩天有這個新聞要突襲檢查關於駕駛室的事情因為我們說有這個列車駕駛停車失檔然後台鐵的回應是說要增加突襲檢查但是我看到相關的新聞有工會的代表受訪認為突襲檢查會增加駕駛員的壓力那我很好奇到底這件事情你們未來要怎麼做"},{"start":532.422,"end":561.041,"text":"我講說這個其實第一個我先講那個不叫所謂的突襲檢查可是你們新聞是這樣說的不是絕對不是突襲我們是剛講會加強飢餓但是絕對不是用突襲檢查的方式他是靠站的時候我們過去裡面到裡面去看也就是有點是一個指導員到裡面去看他的一些動作有沒有正常之類的那至於影音的這個價值式影音的這個記錄問題其實在幾年前就已經一直在談那當然同仁有一些"},{"start":562.482,"end":585.12,"text":"有一些不一樣的考慮到說隱私的部分之類的我想這部分我覺得最終正道應該是這個還是比較正道啦應該要去設置這個影音紀錄一個問題因為包括北捷啦其他的大概都有設置這個我們後面會來繼續跟同仁來溝通好 謝謝次長有承擔自己主動講出關於這個影音紀錄的問題"},{"start":586.081,"end":605.866,"text":"因為如果要增加突襲檢查或者是所謂集合員進到駕駛室其實你需要增加人力而且如果駕駛員是有反彈的我認為需要溝通可是我知道我前一輪的質詢其實我在去年六月我就有問過影印記錄的問題我知道當時很多工會的成員是反對的我們就公開的說但是在工會成員反對必須要兼顧他們的隱私"},{"start":606.266,"end":623.863,"text":"又兼顧國人的用車安全這件事情上我認為是需要溝通 需要討論如何讓所有這些工會成員認為他們是被尊重的不是被窺探的 不是被監視的但是我們的行政機關還是願意對國人的用車安全表示負責我認為這件事情非常非常的困難"},{"start":624.483,"end":641.712,"text":"所以如果次長您剛主動講到其實連北捷高鐵都有這個所謂影像紀錄這件事情但如果台鐵要加裝會遇到的困難要拜託次長真的積極的解決也許跟工會成員討論了也許我們還有更多社會溝通需要進行是這是我們應該做的好謝謝謝謝次長謝謝主席謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":136,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（9時38分）謝謝主席，有請次長，謝謝。"],["主席：請次長。"],["伍次長勝園：委員好。"],["陳委員培瑜：次長辛苦了。臺鐵真的有很多問題需要改善，這兩天的新聞我相信你一定都非常清楚，不管是月台門的問題，或者是安全的問題，還有人翻爬過去的問題。我很好奇臺鐵在相關事情上的規劃進度，因為我知道臺鐵一直有在做相關的規劃，目前為止，就您所掌握的進度，不管是規劃試辦安裝纜繩月台門或者是安全門，就是跟日本借鏡的這個部分，我想要知道你們目前的進度。"],["伍次長勝園：跟委員報告，月台門的部分我們做了一個試辦的工程是在高雄車站，目前展示的部分已經放上去了，後面的功能目前正在設計，我們預計在年底可以完成整個測試，明年3月可以完工，完工之後我們再來評估是不是在其他車站來進行月台門的規劃。"],["陳委員培瑜：我很好奇關於評估的標的到底是什麼，因為你說年底完工，然後就開始試辦，然後看看這個績效如何、狀況如何，但我很好奇，臺鐵內部或者是一般人，因為只要每次臺鐵上了新聞，相關的鐵道迷朋友們的留言幾乎是網路上最熱烈的，但我很好奇臺鐵內部自己專家的意見，或者是專家學者的意見，或是你們評估的標的到底是什麼？"],["伍次長勝園：跟委員報告，因為臺鐵的車種非常多，這個為什麼是試辦？就是剛剛講的，我們把它弄完之後，我們去針對每一個車型做一些討論，有些功能是不是應該增加、有些功能是不是應該減少？我想就是在這個時候，我們來做，所以才會到年底的時候把這個試辦的部分完成。"],["陳委員培瑜：其實次長你講到關鍵，就是因為車型的樣態非常多。"],["伍次長勝園：對。"],["陳委員培瑜：然後每一個月台的狀況也不一樣，還有就是如果這些狀況搭配組合起來，那個排列組合的樣態會非常非常多，其實在……為什麼一直會有嗶嗶聲？"],["主席：手機調靜音好不好？不要吵到大家。"],["陳委員培瑜：其實日本在這件事情上，我相信臺鐵應該有借鏡日本的經驗，日本的狀態可能跟次長您講得也差不多，就是月台的樣態非常多元，然後車種的樣態也非常多元，所以排列組合起來，他們所必須做的事情其實也非常非常的困難，日本的經驗其實已經告訴我們了，相關成本非常昂貴，保養的維運也很花時間、又很花錢，而且在現在各行各業普遍缺工的情況下，這件事情做起來更加困難，還有月台門也可能因為故障失效，反而變成另外一個維安的因素。所以我也很好奇，臺鐵在這件事情上，後續到底長期的規劃是什麼？或者是說我們只能短期、短期來看，我們沒有辦法往長期去想？"],["伍次長勝園：我想，還是剛剛所講的，因為在試辦，這裡面我們一開始其實研討加了很多功能，過一陣子，我們剛剛講的，開始做了以後我們去討論這些功能是不是還有必要，然後再做一些精進。"],["陳委員培瑜：我們這邊希望是自主開發居多，還是以日本的系統搬過來用，然後做一些改良為主？"],["伍次長勝園：我們不見得一定是參考哪一個國家的經驗為主，我想是依照目前我們臺鐵公司的樣態來做比較實在。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，如果是這樣，那代表我們會有自主開發成分是高的。"],["伍次長勝園：對。"],["陳委員培瑜：如果自主開發成分是高的，我要拜託次長，不管後續的董事長是誰，我認為在中間實測的過程當中，我們在自主開發所會遇到的困難，不管是經驗上的困難或者是人力上的困難、專業上的困難，這件事情我們到底如何解決？還是我們每次都只選一些固定的站點做一些試辦，然後好像就可以對安全這件事情有所交代？我認為人民還是有疑慮的！所以拜託次長要把這個問題帶回去，繼續作為一個非常重要的施政參考。"],["伍次長勝園：是，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員培瑜：我知道臺鐵在2019年曾經有做過智慧影像辨識的事情，當時我們討論到因為有隱私的問題，還有相關系統可能有中國製產品的問題，所以就喊停，那我要提醒次長，2019的AI到了2025的AI，樣態已經不一樣了，臺灣有沒有能力自己做這件事情？有沒有相關的評估？你覺得我們有沒有機會往這一段去評估，用AI重新啟動，作為輔助防止月台憾事的可能性？"],["伍次長勝園：確實在2019的時候曾經有想要試辦，剛剛就提到了，因為有隱私權的問題，那時候大概外界對這部分有點意見，剛剛講到因為AI應用很普遍，我想除了邊坡之外，這部分我們可以來研討看看是不是可以放進來。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，我希望你們帶回去研討這件事情，因為我相信臺灣是應該有能力自己做這件事情，如果按照您剛剛說的，纜繩月台門也好、安全門也好，臺鐵有更多自主研發的空間，我認為一併把AI系統納入應該是可行的，好嗎？"],["伍次長勝園：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：這一題我們之後也會往下追。","接下來，小年夜北中南電纜遭到接連破壞，當時王定宇委員提醒可能會有國安的疑慮，我想問一下，目前這個案子追查的進度是如何？"],["伍次長勝園：跟委員報告，這個案子已經破案了，應該只是附近的相關人士為了貪圖，他要去賣銅線這個物料獲取一點金錢，這個已經破案了，我想後面我們會好好再去處理。"],["陳委員培瑜：所謂好好處理指的是？"],["伍次長勝園：就是剛剛講的，我們會跟我們的路警局橫向溝通更清楚，因為其實他們對於周遭哪些人員可能會去做竊盜這樣的動作，應該都有掌握。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，所以次長你已經說出兩個字，你認為這是單純的竊盜事件，而且是個案性事件。"],["伍次長勝園：對，目前看是這樣。"],["陳委員培瑜：目前看是這樣，好，沒有問題，我們可以接受這個說法，但是我們也是要參考，我認為相關事件真的很有可能在臺灣發生，在巴黎奧運開幕當天，法國鐵路網就遭到惡意的攻擊，我認為在目前的情況下，臺灣不是沒有機會遇到相關國安的問題，在臺鐵的整個系統當中，你自己有沒有想過這件事情在臺鐵目前整個運作系統當中的因應能力到哪裡？或者是整個因應系統的準備，我們現在做到哪裡了？"],["伍次長勝園：是，我想我去臺鐵以後，我也發現這個問題，我覺得它真的很重要，因為臺鐵畢竟是臺灣的運輸骨幹，針對資安的部分，那時候跟我們的資訊處希望能夠針對整個驗證導入第三者，讓資安可以達到A級這樣一個等級，我想這部分我們後續會再去做努力。"],["陳委員培瑜：資安的部分歸資安，我剛剛提的其實不大是資安，但是我覺得我很感謝你提到資安的部分，如果在您代理董事長任內真的可以完成相關A級資安的認證，我認為這件事情是會讓國人放心，也會讓臺灣整體社會的韌性因此提高。可是我要提醒，相關臺鐵的演習劇本目前都只有停留在列車事故，對吧？"],["伍次長勝園：對，大部分是這樣。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，所以你們的目標是動員、災防、反恐？"],["伍次長勝園：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，可是相關社會韌性的概念，目前有沒有放進臺鐵的演習劇本當中？連賴清德總統都要親自主持社會防衛韌性委員會，我不知道臺鐵作為臺灣運輸主要的骨幹，尤其如果在各種緊急狀況的時候，我們有沒有這樣的能力去面對這個事情？"],["伍次長勝園：針對這個部分，剛剛講的韌性的部分，我們目前也會把它導進來，這是我們未來要努力的，這個我們來做。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，這個你們來做，我就先把這個概念提出來。"],["伍次長勝園：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：到底加入社會韌性這個部分要做哪些事情？我相信臺鐵應該有能力去研究，就算如果臺鐵自己能力不足，也許可以委託外面的專家學者，或是跟社會防衛韌性委員會討論。"],["伍次長勝園：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：最後一個，這兩天有這個新聞，要突襲檢查關於駕駛室的事情，對嘛？因為有列車駕駛停車失當，然後臺鐵的回應是說要增加突襲檢查，但是我看到相關新聞，有工會代表受訪認為，突襲檢查會增加駕駛員的壓力，我很好奇到底這件事情你們未來要怎麼做？"],["伍次長勝園：第一個我先講，那個不叫所謂的突襲檢查。"],["陳委員培瑜：可是你們的新聞是這樣說的。"],["伍次長勝園：不是，絕對不是突襲檢查！我們剛剛講是會加強稽核，但是絕對不是用突襲檢查的方式，它是靠站的時候我們過去到裡面去看，也就是有一個指導員到裡面去看他的一些動作有沒有正常之類的。至於駕駛室影音的紀錄問題，其實在幾年前就已經一直在談，當然同仁有一些不一樣的看法，考慮到隱私部分之類的，我想這部分，我覺得最終比較正道的應該還是要設置影音紀錄這樣的問題，因為包括北捷，其他大概都有設置，這個我們後面會繼續跟同仁溝通。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝次長有承擔，自己主動講出關於影音紀錄的問題，因為如果要增加突襲檢查或者是所謂稽核員進到駕駛室，其實你需要增加人力，而且如果駕駛員是有反彈的，我認為需要溝通。可是我前一輪的質詢，其實在去年6月我就有問過影音紀錄的問題，我知道當時很多工會成員是反對的，我們就公開地說，但是在工會成員反對，必須要兼顧他們的隱私，又兼顧國人的用車安全這件事情上，我認為是需要溝通、需要討論，如何讓所有這些工會成員認為他們是被尊重的，不是被窺探的、不是被監視的，但是我們的行政機關還是願意對國人的用車安全表示負責，我認為這件事情非常非常的困難，所以如果次長您剛剛主動講到，其實連北捷、高鐵都有所謂影音紀錄這件事情，但如果臺鐵要加裝會遇到的困難，要拜託次長真的積極地解決，也許跟工會成員討論，也許我們還有更多的社會溝通需要進行。"],["伍次長勝園：是，這是我們應該做的。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝次長。"],["伍次長勝園：謝謝委員。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝。","請廖先翔委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":418,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-23,36-1","speakers":["許智傑","洪孟楷","黃國昌","陳培瑜","廖先翔","李昆澤","魯明哲","林國成","陳素月","王義川","林俊憲","邱若華","蔡其昌","徐富癸","吳思瑤","莊瑞雄","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","何欣純","游顥","王美惠","葉元之","黃健豪","沈發惠","翁曉玲"],"page_start":355,"meetingDate":["2025-04-07"],"gazette_id":"1143401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143401_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員蔡其昌等17人、二、委員林宜瑾等27人、三、委員楊瓊瓔等21人及四、委員徐富癸\n等17人分別擬具「國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司設置條例第十條及第二十三條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1143401_00012"}}}