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\"text\": \"累計總共編了803億元那其實計畫還有195億元那這個我認為鐵道局應該繼續來辦理修正計畫的一個展延這個期程\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"累\", \"start\": 320.717, \"end\": 320.917, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"共\", \"start\": 320.917, \"end\": 321.077, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"編\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 321.077, \"end\": 321.358, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"元\", \"start\": 321.358, \"end\": 321.518, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 321.518, \"end\": 321.658, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 321.658, \"end\": 321.678, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"畫\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 321.678, \"end\": 321.798, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"元\", \"start\": 321.798, \"end\": 321.998, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 321.998, 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\"start\": 634.316, \"end\": 635.077, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 635.077, \"end\": 635.197, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 635.197, \"end\": 635.337, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 635.337, \"end\": 635.417, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 635.417, \"end\": 635.577, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 635.577, \"end\": 635.777, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 635.777, \"end\": 635.797, \"score\": 0.006}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,446 --> 00:00:07,893\n謝謝許志傑召委請一下次長請次長\n\n2\n00:00:16,753 --> 00:00:35,385\n市長我們先來討論一下有關於高鐵票降是否調漲的這樣的一個議題那每年的4月交通部會依台灣地區的消費者的總指數來訂定高鐵的一個基本的匯率那他的\n\n3\n00:00:36,586 --> 00:00:55,276\n時程流程大概是每年4月的時候先由交通部來訂定票價的一個基準然後高鐵去調整這個票價送到董事會經理有同意再送到立法院來做相關的備查流程應該是這樣沒錯的那我們在\n\n4\n00:00:57,038 --> 00:01:11,513\n2015年的時候其實交通委員會就有決議這個票價是要送到立法院來備查那為什麼會有2015年這樣一個議題因為在2013年的時候高鐵有第一次的票價調整\n\n5\n00:01:12,754 --> 00:01:29,369\n那時候在2013年我就提出高鐵的問題是運量而不是票價的這個問題那到2015年也因為財改以及高鐵的營運狀況停滯不前所以又調回原本現在這個票價\n\n6\n00:01:31,311 --> 00:01:46,105\n我們2024年跟2025年我知道我們交通部依照台灣地區消費者物價的總指數訂定的基本匯率是每公里4.55億元\n\n7\n00:01:48,047 --> 00:02:08,900\n如果按照這個匯率啊台北到高雄的單程票價它累積有230元的這樣的一個漲價的空間那當然啦我們在2013年我提出這個高鐵的議題啊其實就是它是醞釀的問題而不是票價的問題那高鐵\n\n8\n00:02:14,533 --> 00:02:42,092\n針對調漲票價與否他主要有內部成本的思考以及外部就是相關的社會經濟環境的問題以及相關的供需以及市場競爭的這樣的一個狀況來做調整那其實我們來看是否有調整的空間呢我們來看高鐵的運量跟營收其實都是有增加的\n\n9\n00:02:43,153 --> 00:03:11,011\n高鐵旅客的總人次在2019年的時候總人次是達到他的總人次是達到達到6700萬以上那6億啦應該是6億人次以上那高鐵的旅客我們來看他的日均人次啦\n\n10\n00:03:13,712 --> 00:03:32,789\n六千這個我們來大家來做確認高鐵旅客的日均人次在2019年的時候是達到18萬人次那2025年2月的時候他的日均人次達到22萬4千人次以上\n\n11\n00:03:33,470 --> 00:03:40,093\n那高鐵的營收增加2023年的營業增加營業收入是498億2024年他的營業收入是531億他的營運\n\n12\n00:03:46,857 --> 00:04:00,301\n他的旅客人士他的收入都有明顯的增加我認為是應該要維持原票價那今年我們就不予同意來做這樣的一個調整這是我的建議來市長簡單說明一下來說明一下確實剛剛就如這邊所提的\n\n13\n00:04:04,082 --> 00:04:31,025\n它運量一直其實在提升比如說以昨天的那個高鐵運量它又32萬比剛講的22本來2月的時候就24萬昨天又創了大概32萬就算是很高我講的是日軍人士你講的是廉價期間的這個人士對對我意思說它的其實它不斷的運量不斷的在增加那目前我們確實我個人我也覺得不太適合去談票價調漲的問題\n\n14\n00:04:32,446 --> 00:04:54,164\n也許過兩年之後那新車進來以後那新車進來以後它一些成本可能會一些增加那時候才是一個比較適合來談票價調整的一個時機好這個是我們對於高鐵票價調整與否的一個基本的態度那我們接下來來談相關的高雄計畫就是鐵路地下化\n\n15\n00:04:55,489 --> 00:05:03,436\n它原本就是高雄計畫、鳳山計畫以及左營計畫它的總經費是達到998億元那統稱為高雄計畫那這個計畫其實在目前我們來看它相關的這個經費的議題它的總經費是998億那其實到114年\n\n16\n00:05:20,717 --> 00:05:24,721\n累計總共編了803億元那其實計畫還有195億元那這個我認為鐵道局應該繼續來辦理修正計畫的一個展延這個期程\n\n17\n00:05:37,575 --> 00:05:52,824\n讓這個經費剩餘的195億還能夠做充分的一個運用那因為我們來看高雄的這個鐵路地下化當然第一階段都已經正式的通車新增加7個通勤車站\n\n18\n00:05:53,752 --> 00:06:15,431\n然後我們也做了綠園道相關的立體化設施路橋的拆除地下道的填平都已經陸續的完成但是還有很多計畫我們還要繼續的去做改善跟充實例如我們的高雄車站與周邊道路的相關的連通\n\n19\n00:06:19,022 --> 00:06:34,838\n這個楊局長也應該知道我們高雄車站經過一個九如路另外一邊是建國路要到路的另外一邊要橫越馬路我認為應該要做地下通道如果地下通道要做商店街的話\n\n20\n00:06:37,579 --> 00:07:04,878\n地下街這樣做商業營運的話是必須要跟高雄市政府來做協調跟處理如果單單是通道的話我們鐵道局就可以去做規劃就可以去做那車站也應該要更智慧化的這樣一個提升那還有車站的一個界面的整合包含這個跟捷運黃線還有相關的這種聯通等等都必須要去\n\n21\n00:07:05,658 --> 00:07:33,747\n下一步必須要去進行這個施作那還有高鐵南延的這個計畫到高雄車站相關的介面整合跟先前的工程也都必須要先做處理來我希望這個經費能夠繼續展現來說明一下是跟委員報告謝謝委員的這個提示確實剛剛講的高雄計畫目前大概還有剩錢到他計畫到114那現在我們大概請鐵道局要進行所謂的修正計畫因為\n\n22\n00:07:35,367 --> 00:07:54,215\n從這裡面剛剛提到其實周邊還有很多事情可以去做包括像現在我們的高鐵要進到高雄車站跟過去已經不太一樣所以這整個環境必須要再做一個整合我想這個後面我們大概會依照剛剛委員這樣所一個提議我們會去做辦理修正計畫\n\n23\n00:07:55,375 --> 00:08:08,338\n另外針對高鐵的一個年度的旅客總人次我在這邊做個補充更正2019年的總人次是6741萬人2024年的總人次達到7825萬人次以上大陝人次是越來越多最後我簡單問一下我們的台鐵\n\n24\n00:08:24,093 --> 00:08:52,795\n北回的這種啊改善的初步評估計畫就是所謂的轉股計畫因為啊和平跟崇德之間我多次在交通委員會要求做改善短期的我們針對落實偵測啦邊坡的這種處理啦加強他的安全的韌性這是短期的計畫那交通部在我們的要求之下也進行了這樣的一個初步的評估計畫我知道大概有兩個方案第一個方案啊\n\n25\n00:08:53,375 --> 00:09:18,667\n是在仿造這種攔回在海濱設置高架設置高架一個替代方案另外一個就是走比較內陸是做相關的隧道的一個不管是民隧道或是挖隧道來做一個安全改善的這樣的工程那這個評估報告1月的時候已經有送到交通部了對不對來說明一下目前的期程\n\n26\n00:09:19,187 --> 00:09:31,713\n沒有這個大概是還在台鐵內部的一個評估啦剛剛提到這是一個很初步的一個評估你跟台鐵對一下1月的時候有一個初步的報告沒有沒有送有送到這邊現在在做審查啦\n\n27\n00:09:32,894 --> 00:09:49,607\n沒有那你們現在目前的進度是什麼先要剛剛講這個是一個很初步的評估裡面剛剛提到大概有幾個方案去做一些探討那這邊牽涉到所謂戰場的問題還有第一個如果是走邊這個海邊的部分就是說高架橋的部分當然有場戰的問題還有安全的問題\n\n28\n00:09:52,950 --> 00:10:12,503\n還有他的強度的這樣一個韌性的維護還有相關的生態的衝擊等等這都是相關的這個在評估裡面其實市長你都已經初步有知道這樣的一個初步的內容我就說1月的時候就已經有送到交通部初步的東西有讓你們去了解\n\n29\n00:10:13,683 --> 00:10:35,797\n那這個我就不跟你爭論啦那相關的資料我等一下給你看那相關的有關於台鐵票價問題就已經確認今年就不予討論啦是不是這樣票價我們因為行政已經通過我想我們大概還是不是我講的是高鐵高鐵不會高鐵不會高鐵剛剛講的目前還沒有接到通知會議會計條長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5446\t7893\t謝謝許志傑召委請一下次長請次長\n16753\t35385\t市長我們先來討論一下有關於高鐵票降是否調漲的這樣的一個議題那每年的4月交通部會依台灣地區的消費者的總指數來訂定高鐵的一個基本的匯率那他的\n36586\t55276\t時程 流程大概是每年4月的時候先由交通部來訂定票價的一個基準然後高鐵去調整這個票價送到董事會經理有同意再送到立法院來做相關的備查流程應該是這樣沒錯的那我們在\n57038\t71513\t2015年的時候其實交通委員會就有決議這個票價是要送到立法院來備查那為什麼會有2015年這樣一個議題因為在2013年的時候高鐵有第一次的票價調整\n72754\t89369\t那時候在2013年我就提出高鐵的問題是運量而不是票價的這個問題那到2015年也因為財改以及高鐵的營運狀況停滯不前所以又調回原本現在這個票價\n91311\t106105\t我們2024年跟2025年我知道我們交通部依照台灣地區消費者物價的總指數訂定的基本匯率是每公里4.55億元\n108047\t128900\t如果按照這個匯率啊台北到高雄的單程票價它累積有230元的這樣的一個漲價的空間那當然啦我們在2013年我提出這個高鐵的議題啊其實就是它是醞釀的問題而不是票價的問題那高鐵\n134533\t162092\t針對調漲票價與否他主要有內部成本的思考以及外部就是相關的社會經濟環境的問題以及相關的供需以及市場競爭的這樣的一個狀況來做調整那其實我們來看是否有調整的空間呢我們來看高鐵的運量跟營收其實都是有增加的\n163153\t191011\t高鐵旅客的總人次在2019年的時候總人次是達到他的總人次是達到達到6700萬以上那6億啦 應該是6億人次以上那高鐵的旅客我們來看他的日均人次啦\n193712\t212789\t六千 這個我們來大家來做確認高鐵旅客的日均人次在2019年的時候是達到18萬人次那2025年2月的時候他的日均人次達到22萬4千人次以上\n213470\t220093\t那高鐵的營收增加2023年的營業增加營業收入是498億2024年他的營業收入是531億他的營運\n226857\t240301\t他的旅客人士他的收入都有明顯的增加我認為是應該要維持原票價那今年我們就不予同意來做這樣的一個調整這是我的建議來市長簡單說明一下來說明一下確實剛剛就如這邊所提的\n244082\t271025\t它運量一直其實在提升比如說以昨天的那個高鐵運量它又32萬比剛講的22本來2月的時候就24萬昨天又創了大概32萬就算是很高我講的是日軍人士你講的是廉價期間的這個人士對對我意思說它的其實它不斷的運量不斷的在增加那目前我們確實我個人我也覺得不太適合去談票價調漲的問題\n272446\t294164\t也許過兩年之後那新車進來以後那新車進來以後它一些成本可能會一些增加那時候才是一個比較適合來談票價調整的一個時機好 這個是我們對於高鐵票價調整與否的一個基本的態度那我們接下來來談相關的高雄計畫就是鐵路地下化\n295489\t303436\t它原本就是高雄計畫、鳳山計畫以及左營計畫它的總經費是達到998億元那統稱為高雄計畫那這個計畫其實在目前我們來看它相關的這個經費的議題它的總經費是998億那其實到114年\n320717\t324721\t累計總共編了803億元那其實計畫還有195億元那這個我認為鐵道局應該繼續來辦理修正計畫的一個展延這個期程\n337575\t352824\t讓這個經費剩餘的195億還能夠做充分的一個運用那因為我們來看高雄的這個鐵路地下化當然第一階段都已經正式的通車新增加7個通勤車站\n353752\t375431\t然後我們也做了綠園道 相關的立體化設施 路橋的拆除 地下道的填平都已經陸續的完成但是還有很多計畫我們還要繼續的去做改善跟充實例如我們的高雄車站與周邊道路的相關的連通\n379022\t394838\t這個楊局長也應該知道我們高雄車站經過一個九如路另外一邊是建國路要到路的另外一邊要橫越馬路我認為應該要做地下通道如果地下通道要做商店街的話\n397579\t424878\t地下街這樣做商業營運的話是必須要跟高雄市政府來做協調跟處理如果單單是通道的話我們鐵道局就可以去做規劃就可以去做那車站也應該要更智慧化的這樣一個提升那還有車站的一個界面的整合包含這個跟捷運黃線還有相關的這種聯通等等都必須要去\n425658\t453747\t下一步必須要去進行這個施作那還有高鐵南延的這個計畫到高雄車站相關的介面整合跟先前的工程也都必須要先做處理來我希望這個經費能夠繼續展現來說明一下是跟委員報告謝謝委員的這個提示確實剛剛講的高雄計畫目前大概還有剩錢到他計畫到114那現在我們大概請鐵道局要進行所謂的修正計畫因為\n455367\t474215\t從這裡面剛剛提到其實周邊還有很多事情可以去做包括像現在我們的高鐵要進到高雄車站跟過去已經不太一樣所以這整個環境必須要再做一個整合我想這個後面我們大概會依照剛剛委員這樣所一個提議我們會去做辦理修正計畫\n475375\t488338\t另外針對高鐵的一個年度的旅客總人次我在這邊做個補充更正2019年的總人次是6741萬人2024年的總人次達到7825萬人次以上大陝人次是越來越多最後我簡單問一下我們的台鐵\n504093\t532795\t北回的這種啊改善的初步評估計畫就是所謂的轉股計畫因為啊和平跟崇德之間我多次在交通委員會要求做改善短期的我們針對落實偵測啦邊坡的這種處理啦加強他的安全的韌性這是短期的計畫那交通部在我們的要求之下也進行了這樣的一個初步的評估計畫我知道大概有兩個方案第一個方案啊\n533375\t558667\t是在仿造這種攔回在海濱設置高架設置高架一個替代方案另外一個就是走比較內陸是做相關的隧道的一個不管是民隧道或是挖隧道來做一個安全改善的這樣的工程那這個評估報告1月的時候已經有送到交通部了對不對來說明一下目前的期程\n559187\t571713\t沒有 這個大概是還在台鐵內部的一個評估啦剛剛提到這是一個很初步的一個評估你跟台鐵對一下1月的時候有一個初步的報告沒有 沒有送有送到這邊 現在在做審查啦\n572894\t589607\t沒有那你們現在目前的進度是什麼先要剛剛講這個是一個很初步的評估裡面剛剛提到大概有幾個方案去做一些探討那這邊牽涉到所謂戰場的問題還有第一個如果是走邊這個海邊的部分就是說高架橋的部分當然有場戰的問題還有安全的問題\n592950\t612503\t還有他的強度的這樣一個韌性的維護還有相關的生態的衝擊等等這都是相關的這個在評估裡面其實市長你都已經初步有知道這樣的一個初步的內容我就說1月的時候就已經有送到交通部初步的東西有讓你們去了解\n613683\t635797\t那這個我就不跟你爭論啦那相關的資料我等一下給你看那相關的有關於台鐵票價問題就已經確認今年就不予討論啦是不是這樣票價我們因為行政已經通過我想我們大概還是不是我講的是高鐵高鐵不會高鐵不會高鐵剛剛講的目前還沒有接到通知會議會計條長\n","txt":"謝謝許志傑召委請一下次長請次長\n市長我們先來討論一下有關於高鐵票降是否調漲的這樣的一個議題那每年的4月交通部會依台灣地區的消費者的總指數來訂定高鐵的一個基本的匯率那他的\n時程 流程大概是每年4月的時候先由交通部來訂定票價的一個基準然後高鐵去調整這個票價送到董事會經理有同意再送到立法院來做相關的備查流程應該是這樣沒錯的那我們在\n2015年的時候其實交通委員會就有決議這個票價是要送到立法院來備查那為什麼會有2015年這樣一個議題因為在2013年的時候高鐵有第一次的票價調整\n那時候在2013年我就提出高鐵的問題是運量而不是票價的這個問題那到2015年也因為財改以及高鐵的營運狀況停滯不前所以又調回原本現在這個票價\n我們2024年跟2025年我知道我們交通部依照台灣地區消費者物價的總指數訂定的基本匯率是每公里4.55億元\n如果按照這個匯率啊台北到高雄的單程票價它累積有230元的這樣的一個漲價的空間那當然啦我們在2013年我提出這個高鐵的議題啊其實就是它是醞釀的問題而不是票價的問題那高鐵\n針對調漲票價與否他主要有內部成本的思考以及外部就是相關的社會經濟環境的問題以及相關的供需以及市場競爭的這樣的一個狀況來做調整那其實我們來看是否有調整的空間呢我們來看高鐵的運量跟營收其實都是有增加的\n高鐵旅客的總人次在2019年的時候總人次是達到他的總人次是達到達到6700萬以上那6億啦 應該是6億人次以上那高鐵的旅客我們來看他的日均人次啦\n六千 這個我們來大家來做確認高鐵旅客的日均人次在2019年的時候是達到18萬人次那2025年2月的時候他的日均人次達到22萬4千人次以上\n那高鐵的營收增加2023年的營業增加營業收入是498億2024年他的營業收入是531億他的營運\n他的旅客人士他的收入都有明顯的增加我認為是應該要維持原票價那今年我們就不予同意來做這樣的一個調整這是我的建議來市長簡單說明一下來說明一下確實剛剛就如這邊所提的\n它運量一直其實在提升比如說以昨天的那個高鐵運量它又32萬比剛講的22本來2月的時候就24萬昨天又創了大概32萬就算是很高我講的是日軍人士你講的是廉價期間的這個人士對對我意思說它的其實它不斷的運量不斷的在增加那目前我們確實我個人我也覺得不太適合去談票價調漲的問題\n也許過兩年之後那新車進來以後那新車進來以後它一些成本可能會一些增加那時候才是一個比較適合來談票價調整的一個時機好 這個是我們對於高鐵票價調整與否的一個基本的態度那我們接下來來談相關的高雄計畫就是鐵路地下化\n它原本就是高雄計畫、鳳山計畫以及左營計畫它的總經費是達到998億元那統稱為高雄計畫那這個計畫其實在目前我們來看它相關的這個經費的議題它的總經費是998億那其實到114年\n累計總共編了803億元那其實計畫還有195億元那這個我認為鐵道局應該繼續來辦理修正計畫的一個展延這個期程\n讓這個經費剩餘的195億還能夠做充分的一個運用那因為我們來看高雄的這個鐵路地下化當然第一階段都已經正式的通車新增加7個通勤車站\n然後我們也做了綠園道 相關的立體化設施 路橋的拆除 地下道的填平都已經陸續的完成但是還有很多計畫我們還要繼續的去做改善跟充實例如我們的高雄車站與周邊道路的相關的連通\n這個楊局長也應該知道我們高雄車站經過一個九如路另外一邊是建國路要到路的另外一邊要橫越馬路我認為應該要做地下通道如果地下通道要做商店街的話\n地下街這樣做商業營運的話是必須要跟高雄市政府來做協調跟處理如果單單是通道的話我們鐵道局就可以去做規劃就可以去做那車站也應該要更智慧化的這樣一個提升那還有車站的一個界面的整合包含這個跟捷運黃線還有相關的這種聯通等等都必須要去\n下一步必須要去進行這個施作那還有高鐵南延的這個計畫到高雄車站相關的介面整合跟先前的工程也都必須要先做處理來我希望這個經費能夠繼續展現來說明一下是跟委員報告謝謝委員的這個提示確實剛剛講的高雄計畫目前大概還有剩錢到他計畫到114那現在我們大概請鐵道局要進行所謂的修正計畫因為\n從這裡面剛剛提到其實周邊還有很多事情可以去做包括像現在我們的高鐵要進到高雄車站跟過去已經不太一樣所以這整個環境必須要再做一個整合我想這個後面我們大概會依照剛剛委員這樣所一個提議我們會去做辦理修正計畫\n另外針對高鐵的一個年度的旅客總人次我在這邊做個補充更正2019年的總人次是6741萬人2024年的總人次達到7825萬人次以上大陝人次是越來越多最後我簡單問一下我們的台鐵\n北回的這種啊改善的初步評估計畫就是所謂的轉股計畫因為啊和平跟崇德之間我多次在交通委員會要求做改善短期的我們針對落實偵測啦邊坡的這種處理啦加強他的安全的韌性這是短期的計畫那交通部在我們的要求之下也進行了這樣的一個初步的評估計畫我知道大概有兩個方案第一個方案啊\n是在仿造這種攔回在海濱設置高架設置高架一個替代方案另外一個就是走比較內陸是做相關的隧道的一個不管是民隧道或是挖隧道來做一個安全改善的這樣的工程那這個評估報告1月的時候已經有送到交通部了對不對來說明一下目前的期程\n沒有 這個大概是還在台鐵內部的一個評估啦剛剛提到這是一個很初步的一個評估你跟台鐵對一下1月的時候有一個初步的報告沒有 沒有送有送到這邊 現在在做審查啦\n沒有那你們現在目前的進度是什麼先要剛剛講這個是一個很初步的評估裡面剛剛提到大概有幾個方案去做一些探討那這邊牽涉到所謂戰場的問題還有第一個如果是走邊這個海邊的部分就是說高架橋的部分當然有場戰的問題還有安全的問題\n還有他的強度的這樣一個韌性的維護還有相關的生態的衝擊等等這都是相關的這個在評估裡面其實市長你都已經初步有知道這樣的一個初步的內容我就說1月的時候就已經有送到交通部初步的東西有讓你們去了解\n那這個我就不跟你爭論啦那相關的資料我等一下給你看那相關的有關於台鐵票價問題就已經確認今年就不予討論啦是不是這樣票價我們因為行政已經通過我想我們大概還是不是我講的是高鐵高鐵不會高鐵不會高鐵剛剛講的目前還沒有接到通知會議會計條長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.446 --> 00:07.893\n謝謝許志傑召委請一下次長請次長\n\n00:16.753 --> 00:35.385\n市長我們先來討論一下有關於高鐵票降是否調漲的這樣的一個議題那每年的4月交通部會依台灣地區的消費者的總指數來訂定高鐵的一個基本的匯率那他的\n\n00:36.586 --> 00:55.276\n時程流程大概是每年4月的時候先由交通部來訂定票價的一個基準然後高鐵去調整這個票價送到董事會經理有同意再送到立法院來做相關的備查流程應該是這樣沒錯的那我們在\n\n00:57.038 --> 01:11.513\n2015年的時候其實交通委員會就有決議這個票價是要送到立法院來備查那為什麼會有2015年這樣一個議題因為在2013年的時候高鐵有第一次的票價調整\n\n01:12.754 --> 01:29.369\n那時候在2013年我就提出高鐵的問題是運量而不是票價的這個問題那到2015年也因為財改以及高鐵的營運狀況停滯不前所以又調回原本現在這個票價\n\n01:31.311 --> 01:46.105\n我們2024年跟2025年我知道我們交通部依照台灣地區消費者物價的總指數訂定的基本匯率是每公里4.55億元\n\n01:48.047 --> 02:08.900\n如果按照這個匯率啊台北到高雄的單程票價它累積有230元的這樣的一個漲價的空間那當然啦我們在2013年我提出這個高鐵的議題啊其實就是它是醞釀的問題而不是票價的問題那高鐵\n\n02:14.533 --> 02:42.092\n針對調漲票價與否他主要有內部成本的思考以及外部就是相關的社會經濟環境的問題以及相關的供需以及市場競爭的這樣的一個狀況來做調整那其實我們來看是否有調整的空間呢我們來看高鐵的運量跟營收其實都是有增加的\n\n02:43.153 --> 03:11.011\n高鐵旅客的總人次在2019年的時候總人次是達到他的總人次是達到達到6700萬以上那6億啦應該是6億人次以上那高鐵的旅客我們來看他的日均人次啦\n\n03:13.712 --> 03:32.789\n六千這個我們來大家來做確認高鐵旅客的日均人次在2019年的時候是達到18萬人次那2025年2月的時候他的日均人次達到22萬4千人次以上\n\n03:33.470 --> 03:40.093\n那高鐵的營收增加2023年的營業增加營業收入是498億2024年他的營業收入是531億他的營運\n\n03:46.857 --> 04:00.301\n他的旅客人士他的收入都有明顯的增加我認為是應該要維持原票價那今年我們就不予同意來做這樣的一個調整這是我的建議來市長簡單說明一下來說明一下確實剛剛就如這邊所提的\n\n04:04.082 --> 04:31.025\n它運量一直其實在提升比如說以昨天的那個高鐵運量它又32萬比剛講的22本來2月的時候就24萬昨天又創了大概32萬就算是很高我講的是日軍人士你講的是廉價期間的這個人士對對我意思說它的其實它不斷的運量不斷的在增加那目前我們確實我個人我也覺得不太適合去談票價調漲的問題\n\n04:32.446 --> 04:54.164\n也許過兩年之後那新車進來以後那新車進來以後它一些成本可能會一些增加那時候才是一個比較適合來談票價調整的一個時機好這個是我們對於高鐵票價調整與否的一個基本的態度那我們接下來來談相關的高雄計畫就是鐵路地下化\n\n04:55.489 --> 05:03.436\n它原本就是高雄計畫、鳳山計畫以及左營計畫它的總經費是達到998億元那統稱為高雄計畫那這個計畫其實在目前我們來看它相關的這個經費的議題它的總經費是998億那其實到114年\n\n05:20.717 --> 05:24.721\n累計總共編了803億元那其實計畫還有195億元那這個我認為鐵道局應該繼續來辦理修正計畫的一個展延這個期程\n\n05:37.575 --> 05:52.824\n讓這個經費剩餘的195億還能夠做充分的一個運用那因為我們來看高雄的這個鐵路地下化當然第一階段都已經正式的通車新增加7個通勤車站\n\n05:53.752 --> 06:15.431\n然後我們也做了綠園道相關的立體化設施路橋的拆除地下道的填平都已經陸續的完成但是還有很多計畫我們還要繼續的去做改善跟充實例如我們的高雄車站與周邊道路的相關的連通\n\n06:19.022 --> 06:34.838\n這個楊局長也應該知道我們高雄車站經過一個九如路另外一邊是建國路要到路的另外一邊要橫越馬路我認為應該要做地下通道如果地下通道要做商店街的話\n\n06:37.579 --> 07:04.878\n地下街這樣做商業營運的話是必須要跟高雄市政府來做協調跟處理如果單單是通道的話我們鐵道局就可以去做規劃就可以去做那車站也應該要更智慧化的這樣一個提升那還有車站的一個界面的整合包含這個跟捷運黃線還有相關的這種聯通等等都必須要去\n\n07:05.658 --> 07:33.747\n下一步必須要去進行這個施作那還有高鐵南延的這個計畫到高雄車站相關的介面整合跟先前的工程也都必須要先做處理來我希望這個經費能夠繼續展現來說明一下是跟委員報告謝謝委員的這個提示確實剛剛講的高雄計畫目前大概還有剩錢到他計畫到114那現在我們大概請鐵道局要進行所謂的修正計畫因為\n\n07:35.367 --> 07:54.215\n從這裡面剛剛提到其實周邊還有很多事情可以去做包括像現在我們的高鐵要進到高雄車站跟過去已經不太一樣所以這整個環境必須要再做一個整合我想這個後面我們大概會依照剛剛委員這樣所一個提議我們會去做辦理修正計畫\n\n07:55.375 --> 08:08.338\n另外針對高鐵的一個年度的旅客總人次我在這邊做個補充更正2019年的總人次是6741萬人2024年的總人次達到7825萬人次以上大陝人次是越來越多最後我簡單問一下我們的台鐵\n\n08:24.093 --> 08:52.795\n北回的這種啊改善的初步評估計畫就是所謂的轉股計畫因為啊和平跟崇德之間我多次在交通委員會要求做改善短期的我們針對落實偵測啦邊坡的這種處理啦加強他的安全的韌性這是短期的計畫那交通部在我們的要求之下也進行了這樣的一個初步的評估計畫我知道大概有兩個方案第一個方案啊\n\n08:53.375 --> 09:18.667\n是在仿造這種攔回在海濱設置高架設置高架一個替代方案另外一個就是走比較內陸是做相關的隧道的一個不管是民隧道或是挖隧道來做一個安全改善的這樣的工程那這個評估報告1月的時候已經有送到交通部了對不對來說明一下目前的期程\n\n09:19.187 --> 09:31.713\n沒有這個大概是還在台鐵內部的一個評估啦剛剛提到這是一個很初步的一個評估你跟台鐵對一下1月的時候有一個初步的報告沒有沒有送有送到這邊現在在做審查啦\n\n09:32.894 --> 09:49.607\n沒有那你們現在目前的進度是什麼先要剛剛講這個是一個很初步的評估裡面剛剛提到大概有幾個方案去做一些探討那這邊牽涉到所謂戰場的問題還有第一個如果是走邊這個海邊的部分就是說高架橋的部分當然有場戰的問題還有安全的問題\n\n09:52.950 --> 10:12.503\n還有他的強度的這樣一個韌性的維護還有相關的生態的衝擊等等這都是相關的這個在評估裡面其實市長你都已經初步有知道這樣的一個初步的內容我就說1月的時候就已經有送到交通部初步的東西有讓你們去了解\n\n10:13.683 --> 10:35.797\n那這個我就不跟你爭論啦那相關的資料我等一下給你看那相關的有關於台鐵票價問題就已經確認今年就不予討論啦是不是這樣票價我們因為行政已經通過我想我們大概還是不是我講的是高鐵高鐵不會高鐵不會高鐵剛剛講的目前還沒有接到通知會議會計條長\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.446,"end":7.893,"text":"謝謝許志傑召委請一下次長請次長"},{"start":16.753,"end":35.385,"text":"市長我們先來討論一下有關於高鐵票降是否調漲的這樣的一個議題那每年的4月交通部會依台灣地區的消費者的總指數來訂定高鐵的一個基本的匯率那他的"},{"start":36.586,"end":55.276,"text":"時程 流程大概是每年4月的時候先由交通部來訂定票價的一個基準然後高鐵去調整這個票價送到董事會經理有同意再送到立法院來做相關的備查流程應該是這樣沒錯的那我們在"},{"start":57.038,"end":71.513,"text":"2015年的時候其實交通委員會就有決議這個票價是要送到立法院來備查那為什麼會有2015年這樣一個議題因為在2013年的時候高鐵有第一次的票價調整"},{"start":72.754,"end":89.369,"text":"那時候在2013年我就提出高鐵的問題是運量而不是票價的這個問題那到2015年也因為財改以及高鐵的營運狀況停滯不前所以又調回原本現在這個票價"},{"start":91.311,"end":106.105,"text":"我們2024年跟2025年我知道我們交通部依照台灣地區消費者物價的總指數訂定的基本匯率是每公里4.55億元"},{"start":108.047,"end":128.9,"text":"如果按照這個匯率啊台北到高雄的單程票價它累積有230元的這樣的一個漲價的空間那當然啦我們在2013年我提出這個高鐵的議題啊其實就是它是醞釀的問題而不是票價的問題那高鐵"},{"start":134.533,"end":162.092,"text":"針對調漲票價與否他主要有內部成本的思考以及外部就是相關的社會經濟環境的問題以及相關的供需以及市場競爭的這樣的一個狀況來做調整那其實我們來看是否有調整的空間呢我們來看高鐵的運量跟營收其實都是有增加的"},{"start":163.153,"end":191.011,"text":"高鐵旅客的總人次在2019年的時候總人次是達到他的總人次是達到達到6700萬以上那6億啦 應該是6億人次以上那高鐵的旅客我們來看他的日均人次啦"},{"start":193.712,"end":212.789,"text":"六千 這個我們來大家來做確認高鐵旅客的日均人次在2019年的時候是達到18萬人次那2025年2月的時候他的日均人次達到22萬4千人次以上"},{"start":213.47,"end":220.093,"text":"那高鐵的營收增加2023年的營業增加營業收入是498億2024年他的營業收入是531億他的營運"},{"start":226.857,"end":240.301,"text":"他的旅客人士他的收入都有明顯的增加我認為是應該要維持原票價那今年我們就不予同意來做這樣的一個調整這是我的建議來市長簡單說明一下來說明一下確實剛剛就如這邊所提的"},{"start":244.082,"end":271.025,"text":"它運量一直其實在提升比如說以昨天的那個高鐵運量它又32萬比剛講的22本來2月的時候就24萬昨天又創了大概32萬就算是很高我講的是日軍人士你講的是廉價期間的這個人士對對我意思說它的其實它不斷的運量不斷的在增加那目前我們確實我個人我也覺得不太適合去談票價調漲的問題"},{"start":272.446,"end":294.164,"text":"也許過兩年之後那新車進來以後那新車進來以後它一些成本可能會一些增加那時候才是一個比較適合來談票價調整的一個時機好 這個是我們對於高鐵票價調整與否的一個基本的態度那我們接下來來談相關的高雄計畫就是鐵路地下化"},{"start":295.489,"end":303.436,"text":"它原本就是高雄計畫、鳳山計畫以及左營計畫它的總經費是達到998億元那統稱為高雄計畫那這個計畫其實在目前我們來看它相關的這個經費的議題它的總經費是998億那其實到114年"},{"start":320.717,"end":324.721,"text":"累計總共編了803億元那其實計畫還有195億元那這個我認為鐵道局應該繼續來辦理修正計畫的一個展延這個期程"},{"start":337.575,"end":352.824,"text":"讓這個經費剩餘的195億還能夠做充分的一個運用那因為我們來看高雄的這個鐵路地下化當然第一階段都已經正式的通車新增加7個通勤車站"},{"start":353.752,"end":375.431,"text":"然後我們也做了綠園道 相關的立體化設施 路橋的拆除 地下道的填平都已經陸續的完成但是還有很多計畫我們還要繼續的去做改善跟充實例如我們的高雄車站與周邊道路的相關的連通"},{"start":379.022,"end":394.838,"text":"這個楊局長也應該知道我們高雄車站經過一個九如路另外一邊是建國路要到路的另外一邊要橫越馬路我認為應該要做地下通道如果地下通道要做商店街的話"},{"start":397.579,"end":424.878,"text":"地下街這樣做商業營運的話是必須要跟高雄市政府來做協調跟處理如果單單是通道的話我們鐵道局就可以去做規劃就可以去做那車站也應該要更智慧化的這樣一個提升那還有車站的一個界面的整合包含這個跟捷運黃線還有相關的這種聯通等等都必須要去"},{"start":425.658,"end":453.747,"text":"下一步必須要去進行這個施作那還有高鐵南延的這個計畫到高雄車站相關的介面整合跟先前的工程也都必須要先做處理來我希望這個經費能夠繼續展現來說明一下是跟委員報告謝謝委員的這個提示確實剛剛講的高雄計畫目前大概還有剩錢到他計畫到114那現在我們大概請鐵道局要進行所謂的修正計畫因為"},{"start":455.367,"end":474.215,"text":"從這裡面剛剛提到其實周邊還有很多事情可以去做包括像現在我們的高鐵要進到高雄車站跟過去已經不太一樣所以這整個環境必須要再做一個整合我想這個後面我們大概會依照剛剛委員這樣所一個提議我們會去做辦理修正計畫"},{"start":475.375,"end":488.338,"text":"另外針對高鐵的一個年度的旅客總人次我在這邊做個補充更正2019年的總人次是6741萬人2024年的總人次達到7825萬人次以上大陝人次是越來越多最後我簡單問一下我們的台鐵"},{"start":504.093,"end":532.795,"text":"北回的這種啊改善的初步評估計畫就是所謂的轉股計畫因為啊和平跟崇德之間我多次在交通委員會要求做改善短期的我們針對落實偵測啦邊坡的這種處理啦加強他的安全的韌性這是短期的計畫那交通部在我們的要求之下也進行了這樣的一個初步的評估計畫我知道大概有兩個方案第一個方案啊"},{"start":533.375,"end":558.667,"text":"是在仿造這種攔回在海濱設置高架設置高架一個替代方案另外一個就是走比較內陸是做相關的隧道的一個不管是民隧道或是挖隧道來做一個安全改善的這樣的工程那這個評估報告1月的時候已經有送到交通部了對不對來說明一下目前的期程"},{"start":559.187,"end":571.713,"text":"沒有 這個大概是還在台鐵內部的一個評估啦剛剛提到這是一個很初步的一個評估你跟台鐵對一下1月的時候有一個初步的報告沒有 沒有送有送到這邊 現在在做審查啦"},{"start":572.894,"end":589.607,"text":"沒有那你們現在目前的進度是什麼先要剛剛講這個是一個很初步的評估裡面剛剛提到大概有幾個方案去做一些探討那這邊牽涉到所謂戰場的問題還有第一個如果是走邊這個海邊的部分就是說高架橋的部分當然有場戰的問題還有安全的問題"},{"start":592.95,"end":612.503,"text":"還有他的強度的這樣一個韌性的維護還有相關的生態的衝擊等等這都是相關的這個在評估裡面其實市長你都已經初步有知道這樣的一個初步的內容我就說1月的時候就已經有送到交通部初步的東西有讓你們去了解"},{"start":613.683,"end":635.797,"text":"那這個我就不跟你爭論啦那相關的資料我等一下給你看那相關的有關於台鐵票價問題就已經確認今年就不予討論啦是不是這樣票價我們因為行政已經通過我想我們大概還是不是我講的是高鐵高鐵不會高鐵不會高鐵剛剛講的目前還沒有接到通知會議會計條長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":208,"blocks":[["李委員昆澤：（9時56分）謝謝許智傑召委，請一下次長。"],["主席：請次長。"],["伍次長勝園：委員好。"],["李委員昆澤：次長好。我們先來討論一下高鐵票價是否調漲的議題，每年4月交通部會依臺灣地區消費者總指數來訂定高鐵的基本費率，它的流程大概是每年4月的時候先由交通部來訂定一個票價基準，然後高鐵去調整票價送到董事會，經過同意再送到立法院來做相關的備查，流程應該是這樣沒錯。"],["伍次長勝園：是。"],["李委員昆澤：我們在2015年的時候，其實交通委員會就有決議，這個票價要送到立法院來備查，為什麼2015年會有這樣一個議題呢？因為在2013年的時候，高鐵第一次調整票價，那時候我就提出高鐵的問題是運量而不是票價，到2015年也因為財改及高鐵的營運狀況停滯不前，所以又調回原本現在的票價。2024年和2025年我知道我們交通部依照臺灣地區消費者物價總指數，訂定的基本費率是每公里4.551元，按照這個費率，臺北到高雄的單程票價累積有230元的漲價空間。當然啦，我在2013年提出高鐵的問題是運量的問題，而不是票價的問題。那高鐵針對調漲票價與否，主要根據內部成本的思考，以及外部相關的社會經濟環境、供需及市場競爭狀況來做調整，是否有調整的空間呢？我們來看高鐵的運量跟營收，其實都是有增加的，高鐵旅客的總人次，在2019年的時候總人次達到6億人次以上，我們再來看它的日均人次，在2019年的時候是達到18萬人次，2025年2月的時候達到22萬4,000人次以上；高鐵的營收增加，2023年的營業收入是498億，2024年的營業收入是531億，它的營運、旅客人次、收入都有明顯增加，我認為應該要維持原票價，那今年我們就不予同意做這樣的調整，這是我的建議。次長簡單說明一下。"],["伍次長勝園：我說明一下，確實，剛剛就如這邊所提的，運量一直在提升，譬如以昨天的高鐵運量有32萬，比剛剛講的本來2月就有24萬，昨天又創了……大概32萬，這算是很高。未來……"],["李委員昆澤：我講的是日均人次，你講的是連假期間的人次。"],["伍次長勝園：對，我的意思是，其實它的運量不斷在增加。目前確實就我個人，我也覺得不太適合去談票價調漲的問題，也許過兩年，新車進來以後，一些成本可能會增加，那時候才是比較適合談票價調整的一個時機。"],["李委員昆澤：好，這是我們對於高鐵票價調整與否的一個基本態度。","我們接下來談相關的高雄計畫，就是鐵路地下化，它原本就是高雄計畫、鳳山計畫以及左營計畫，總經費達到998億元，統稱為高雄計畫。這個計畫，目前我們來看它相關經費的議題，總經費是998億，到114年累計總共編了803億元，其實計畫還有195億元。我認為鐵道局應該儘速辦理修正計畫的展延期程，讓這個經費賸餘的195億還能夠充分運用。","我們看高雄的鐵路地下化，當然第一階段都已經正式通車，新增加7個通勤車站，然後我們也做了綠園道，相關立體化設施、陸橋拆除、地下道填平都已經陸續完成。但是還有很多計畫要繼續改善跟充實，例如高雄車站與周邊道路的相關聯通，這個楊局長也應該知道，高雄車站經過九如路，另外一邊是建國路，要到路的另外一邊要橫越馬路，我認為應該要做地下通道。如果地下通道要做商店街，地下街做商業營運的話，必須要跟高雄市政府協調跟處理；如果單單是通道的話，鐵道局就可以規劃、可以去做。而車站也應該更智慧化地提升，還有車站的介面整合，包含跟捷運黃線還有相關的聯通等等，下一步都必須進行施作。還有高鐵南延的計畫，到高雄車站相關的介面整合跟先期工程也都必須先做處理，我希望這個經費能夠繼續展延。說明一下。"],["伍次長勝園：跟委員報告，謝謝委員的提示。確實，剛剛講的高雄計畫目前大概還有剩錢，計畫到114年。現在我們大概請鐵道局要進行所謂的修正計畫，因為這裡面剛剛提到，其實周邊還有很多事情可以去做，包括像現在我們的高鐵要進到高雄車站，跟過去已經不太一樣，所以這整個環境必須要再做整合。我想後面我們大概會依照剛剛委員這樣的提議，我們會去辦理修正計畫。"],["李委員昆澤：好。另外針對高鐵年度的旅客總人次，我在這邊做個補充更正，2019年總人次是6,741萬人；2024年總人次達到7,825萬人次以上，搭乘人次越來越多。","最後我簡單問一下，臺鐵北迴改善的初步評估計畫，就是所謂的轉骨計畫，因為和平跟崇德之間，我多次在交通委員會要求做改善，短期的我們針對落石偵測、邊坡處理，加強安全韌性，這是短期的計畫。交通部在我們的要求之下，也進行了這樣的一個初步評估計畫，我知道大概有兩個方案，第一個方案是仿照南迴，在海濱設置高架的一個替代方案；另外一個就走比較內陸，是做相關隧道的，不管是明隧道或挖隧道做安全改善的工程。這個評估報告1月已經送到交通部了，對不對？說明一下目前的期程。"],["伍次長勝園：沒有，這個大概是還在臺鐵內部的一個評估，剛剛提到這是很初步的一個評估。"],["李委員昆澤：你跟臺鐵對一下，1月有一個初步的報告啊！有送到這邊，現在在做審查了。"],["伍次長勝園：沒有。"],["李委員昆澤：那你們目前的進度是什麼？"],["伍次長勝園：剛剛講的，這是一個很初步的評估，裡面大概有幾個方案去做一些探討，當然這邊牽涉到所謂站場的問題，還有第一個如果是走海邊的部分，就是做高架橋的部分……"],["李委員昆澤：對，當然有場站的問題，還有安全的問題……"],["伍次長勝園：對，這些……"],["李委員昆澤：還有它的強度這樣的韌性維護、還有相關的生態衝擊等等，這都在相關的評估裡面。"],["伍次長勝園：對……"],["李委員昆澤：其實次長，你都已經初步知道這樣的初步內容。"],["伍次長勝園：對，有，是。"],["李委員昆澤：我就說1月的時候就已經有送到交通部……"],["伍次長勝園：吔……"],["李委員昆澤：初步的東西有讓你們去了解，這個我就不跟你爭論了。"],["伍次長勝園：是。"],["李委員昆澤：相關資料我等一下給你看。"],["伍次長勝園：好。"],["李委員昆澤：有關於臺鐵票價問題，就已經確認今年不予討論了，是不是這樣？"],["伍次長勝園：票價，因為行政院已經通過，我想我們大概還是……"],["李委員昆澤：不是，我講的是高鐵。"],["伍次長勝園：高鐵不會、高鐵不會。就高鐵，剛剛講的，目前大概沒有接到通知會去調漲。"],["李委員昆澤：好，以上，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝昆澤委員。希望交通部注意一下就高鐵剛剛的承諾，這對人民是個很重要的承諾。","現在請魯明哲委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":418,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-23,36-1","speakers":["許智傑","洪孟楷","黃國昌","陳培瑜","廖先翔","李昆澤","魯明哲","林國成","陳素月","王義川","林俊憲","邱若華","蔡其昌","徐富癸","吳思瑤","莊瑞雄","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","何欣純","游顥","王美惠","葉元之","黃健豪","沈發惠","翁曉玲"],"page_start":355,"meetingDate":["2025-04-07"],"gazette_id":"1143401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143401_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員蔡其昌等17人、二、委員林宜瑾等27人、三、委員楊瓊瓔等21人及四、委員徐富癸\n等17人分別擬具「國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司設置條例第十條及第二十三條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1143401_00012"}}}