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00:01:31,446\n所以我是對於今天的法案我支持幾位委員共同的方向排除國產法然後來適用文字法讓你們有比較大的彈性可以來做清償債務的作為下一頁\n\n6\n00:01:33,530 --> 00:01:56,195\n但是呢跟這個議題相關的就必須去討論到我們現在的國鐵公司條例修正案的第十條第二項裡頭呢你們因為不受國產法二十八條的限制未來的開發處分收益及其他相關事項交通部來定其實他新增的業務需求很多包括都更開發的火化\n\n7\n00:01:56,875 --> 00:02:18,624\n包括資產產權的處理也包括文化資產的協儲就是我本期非常在意的文化資產的協儲包括該保存的保存該修復的修復該活化再利用的活化再利用該公司協力的公司協力或者是中央地方要分工的都要中央地方去分工可是呢人力在哪裡\n\n8\n00:02:20,104 --> 00:02:44,921\n我以你們提供給立法院預算中心的報告裡頭有提到如果要滿足你們新增的這些業務至少要28位新增的人力而目前裡頭台鐵裡頭對於這28個人力的需求你們過去比較專善的也已經有的是專業土地開發的人才那對於文化資產的人才呢誰要回答\n\n9\n00:02:48,319 --> 00:03:11,956\n好包委員這個28個人我先報告一下就目前我們爭取到9個員額是那9個裡頭都是土地專業開發人才嗎第二個有關文化資產回到剛剛前面就是委員提到的幾個面向比如說台北機場那台北機場現在就要作為所謂的鐵道博物館那這個博物館的經營其實是由文化部成立台北機場的這個鐵道博物館的籌備處在進行當中\n\n10\n00:03:13,777 --> 00:03:30,243\n那是有文化部來幫忙是的也就是說未來有我今天不講台北機場就講你自己的你自己要做文化資產修復活化再利用的事實上這些作業就是文化部在做我們其實我們就是尊重文化部把所有的土地保留給台北機場來做使用\n\n11\n00:03:30,603 --> 00:03:49,318\n所以我不講台北機場好嗎我是說其他的部分以你好我剛剛講你有200多個土地2,004筆土地有136筆建物然後有好多好多你要管理的資產價值裡頭可能除了土地開發的人才你還會要有\n\n12\n00:03:50,580 --> 00:04:16,327\n必要的文資的人才嗎那28個人力需求你現在只討到9個好那另外的怎麼辦我先不要講文資了那其他怎麼辦你還前十幾個其他我們再繼續爭取那跟委員報告就是說原來屬於我們處理的策略就是文資的部分就讓文資的專業機關來做處理我們的這個案子我們是把容積移轉出來我知道限定做保留好我來換下一個問法下一頁\n\n13\n00:04:18,047 --> 00:04:40,172\n我次長你看一看這是我剛擔任立委因為我長期待在文化部門我剛剛擔任立委就是2017整理的資料喔二級機關下轄的文化資產數各部會裡頭交通部是第一名你要管理的有137個以列的文資不管是古蹟歷史建築紀念建築等等而\n\n14\n00:04:42,348 --> 00:04:59,377\n潛力文資數還沒被指定但是它有潛力的交通部是所有部會的第四名另外有143處是潛力文資而交通部裡頭的三級機關以下就台鐵局是所有行政院三級機關要管理文化資產數最高的有84處\n\n15\n00:05:01,218 --> 00:05:18,300\n我要說這是2017年喔是我們文資法大修之前喔換言之現在因為我沒有再做新的一個調查可能你的文化資產署、潛力文資署包括台鐵都是會增加很多的下頁所以說我其實是要肯定你們\n\n16\n00:05:19,401 --> 00:05:42,615\n市長你看齁其實在114年就是你們已經開始想到台鐵公司你們承擔的文化保存修復再利用的時代使命所以你們才會有多了編了1400萬的調研預算不是嗎對這1400萬是幹嘛你們還成立了文資科對我們成立文資科\n\n17\n00:05:43,355 --> 00:06:09,744\n就是為了要讓鐵道文物保存活化能夠一個定期的platform有專業的人力有一個平台可以列管可以追蹤可以推展目前台鐵有99處是你們在這個計畫裡頭要去做調研的這就是我剛剛說的是對的方向只是你的人力不要一直跟我講台北機場台北機場是因為有文化部他要作為整個鐵道博物館\n\n18\n00:06:10,424 --> 00:06:31,872\n但是你作為交通部的鐵道局下面的台鐵管理的就這麼多你絕對需要跟上然後我很開心啊我去了解發現你們在組織面在預算面在計畫面都有進展啊只是人力面還要再加強對不對下一頁我要做一個提醒你看看同樣是國營企業台糖台電台水\n\n19\n00:06:37,150 --> 00:06:56,442\n也都因應了他們第一個文資法的修正需要去由管理機關或所有人來編列預算辦理保存修復管理維護等等這是公有文化資產新的文資法的修正所以呢經濟部向下的這些企業他們都看到他去管理去修繕的這個\n\n20\n00:06:58,183 --> 00:07:25,182\n文資的責任他另訂了一個文化資產類別的考試然後去聘任相關的人員這就是我剛剛一直在跟您討論的你剛剛28個你現在才補9個9個裡面可能都是土地開發或是都市計劃的人才你要不要學習一下經濟部的這些作為像台電這幾年對於他的文化資產做得非常好他從修復\n\n21\n00:07:26,303 --> 00:07:50,037\n活化再利用他還辦很多的展覽文化路徑的小旅行跟台灣的設計產業合作讓台灣的水利發電的很多的工業遺址也都成為跟觀光可以結合這都是你高通貨的事情啊要不然你高通貨裡面你台鐵也好你鐵道局也好沒有人這樣在想出口事情啊所以次郎你可以綜合回覆一下嗎你們怎麼來強化這個呢\n\n22\n00:07:52,208 --> 00:08:07,926\n我想剛講的比較多的文資大概集中在台鐵的部分台鐵部分剛講我們也編列預算那也成立一個文資科我想這部分大概會後續看人力部分再盡量再補強至於剛講鐵道局28個人那個事情\n\n23\n00:08:11,950 --> 00:08:37,308\n9個人已經進來這個我再請鐵道局再演繹一下是不是這裡面是不是要有幾個跟這個文資有關係專長的部分進來我再請他們再演繹一下謝謝次長我要肯定你們台鐵已經有預算有專責文資科的組織有相對應的計畫你們組成了鐵路文化保存及活用小組都很好但是就差一個人力嘛\n\n24\n00:08:37,808 --> 00:08:59,278\n在下一頁所以我提供給你們經濟部下面針對文化資產的類別他擴大去招募了我認為這個有幫助我覺得台鐵是應當跟上應當學習的在下一頁另外一個除了你自己管理你自己修復就是擴大合作公司協力是一種模式跟地方政府的合作是一種模式\n\n25\n00:09:00,098 --> 00:09:21,167\n這是我們前幾天思瑤從議員到立委努力了十多年終於讓新北投火車站從彰化流浪到彰化我們把它遷回北投重組這是一個文化資產異地保存的一個美好的美麗的這個土地的鐵路的故事但是呢這是因為有鍥而不捨的北投的民間社團\n\n26\n00:09:21,847 --> 00:09:44,287\n文史工作者然後push台北市政府來做所以我們台鐵應當去爬梳你剛剛那個小組除了你自己管的資產之外其實可以擴大去盤點台灣的鐵道文化裡面哪些可以跟私部門合作哪些可以跟地方政府推他一把給予誘因就像我們新北投火車站前幾天109歲生日\n\n27\n00:09:45,928 --> 00:10:12,412\n我們也辦理了活動不管是這個歷史建築本身的活化修復再利用乃至於我們還謝謝台鐵幫我們找了一個藍寶寶當初在行走淡水淡北線的這個鐵路一起來加入我們這個雖然規模不大但在北投也有一個新北投火車站的鐵道的小小的園區這就是跟地方政府合作所以我今天提供了人力\n\n28\n00:10:13,575 --> 00:10:15,217\n今天的幾個修法我都會支持謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7827\t8328\t好 請次長 級長 馮總好\n16786\t43660\t好 大家早安今天難得針對這個議案我可以把我長期對於鐵道文化保存文化就是前瞻的議題就教於次長還有局長跟總經理那部部都是文化部這個是在蔡英文總統上任之後我們接駐的最新的文化資產保存的方向也就是過去大家覺得保存文化文資在利用那都是文化部的事 不\n44660\t59866\t步步都是文化部那下一頁那先扣合著今天的主題喔作為氏族裁員來做長債基金其實是四個面向這個非常清楚我也是在整理這個質詢才發現哇你台鐵公司的話你的這個\n61187\t73355\t管理的土地的比數2,004筆建物的比數136筆土地面積165萬平方公尺然後呢你承接的短期債務1,699億而且預計要30年來清償完畢這絕對是非常嚴峻的挑戰\n80660\t91446\t所以我是對於今天的法案我支持幾位委員共同的方向排除國產法然後來適用文字法讓你們有比較大的彈性可以來做清償債務的作為下一頁\n93530\t116195\t但是呢跟這個議題相關的就必須去討論到我們現在的國鐵公司條例修正案的第十條第二項裡頭呢你們因為不受國產法二十八條的限制未來的開發處分收益及其他相關事項交通部來定其實他新增的業務需求很多包括都更開發的火化\n116875\t138624\t包括資產產權的處理也包括文化資產的協儲就是我本期非常在意的文化資產的協儲包括該保存的保存該修復的修復該活化再利用的活化再利用該公司協力的公司協力或者是中央地方要分工的都要中央地方去分工可是呢人力在哪裡\n140104\t164921\t我以你們提供給立法院預算中心的報告裡頭有提到如果要滿足你們新增的這些業務至少要28位新增的人力而目前裡頭台鐵裡頭對於這28個人力的需求你們過去比較專善的也已經有的是專業土地開發的人才那對於文化資產的人才呢誰要回答\n168319\t191956\t好包委員這個28個人我先報告一下就目前我們爭取到9個員額是那9個裡頭都是土地專業開發人才嗎第二個有關文化資產回到剛剛前面就是委員提到的幾個面向比如說台北機場那台北機場現在就要作為所謂的鐵道博物館那這個博物館的經營其實是由文化部成立台北機場的這個鐵道博物館的籌備處在進行當中\n193777\t210243\t那是有文化部來幫忙是的也就是說未來有我今天不講台北機場就講你自己的你自己要做文化資產修復活化再利用的事實上這些作業就是文化部在做我們其實我們就是尊重文化部把所有的土地保留給台北機場來做使用\n210603\t229318\t所以我不講台北機場好嗎我是說其他的部分以你好我剛剛講你有200多個土地2,004筆土地有136筆建物然後有好多好多你要管理的資產價值裡頭可能除了土地開發的人才你還會要有\n230580\t256327\t必要的文資的人才嗎那28個人力需求你現在只討到9個好那另外的怎麼辦我先不要講文資了那其他怎麼辦你還前十幾個其他我們再繼續爭取那跟委員報告就是說原來屬於我們處理的策略就是文資的部分就讓文資的專業機關來做處理我們的這個案子我們是把容積移轉出來我知道限定做保留好我來換下一個問法下一頁\n258047\t280172\t我次長你看一看這是我剛擔任立委因為我長期待在文化部門我剛剛擔任立委就是2017整理的資料喔二級機關下轄的文化資產數各部會裡頭交通部是第一名你要管理的有137個以列的文資不管是古蹟歷史建築紀念建築等等而\n282348\t299377\t潛力文資數還沒被指定但是它有潛力的交通部是所有部會的第四名另外有143處是潛力文資而交通部裡頭的三級機關以下就台鐵局是所有行政院三級機關要管理文化資產數最高的有84處\n301218\t318300\t我要說這是2017年喔是我們文資法大修之前喔換言之現在因為我沒有再做新的一個調查可能你的文化資產署、潛力文資署包括台鐵都是會增加很多的下頁所以說我其實是要肯定你們\n319401\t342615\t市長你看齁其實在114年就是你們已經開始想到台鐵公司你們承擔的文化保存修復再利用的時代使命所以你們才會有多了編了1400萬的調研預算不是嗎對這1400萬是幹嘛你們還成立了文資科對我們成立文資科\n343355\t369744\t就是為了要讓鐵道文物保存活化能夠一個定期的platform有專業的人力有一個平台可以列管可以追蹤可以推展目前台鐵有99處是你們在這個計畫裡頭要去做調研的這就是我剛剛說的是對的方向只是你的人力不要一直跟我講台北機場台北機場是因為有文化部他要作為整個鐵道博物館\n370424\t391872\t但是你作為交通部的鐵道局下面的台鐵管理的就這麼多你絕對需要跟上然後我很開心啊我去了解發現你們在組織面在預算面在計畫面都有進展啊只是人力面還要再加強對不對下一頁我要做一個提醒你看看同樣是國營企業台糖台電台水\n397150\t416442\t也都因應了他們第一個文資法的修正需要去由管理機關或所有人來編列預算辦理保存修復管理維護等等這是公有文化資產新的文資法的修正所以呢經濟部向下的這些企業他們都看到他去管理去修繕的這個\n418183\t445182\t文資的責任他另訂了一個文化資產類別的考試然後去聘任相關的人員這就是我剛剛一直在跟您討論的你剛剛28個你現在才補9個9個裡面可能都是土地開發或是都市計劃的人才你要不要學習一下經濟部的這些作為像台電這幾年對於他的文化資產做得非常好他從修復\n446303\t470037\t活化再利用他還辦很多的展覽文化路徑的小旅行跟台灣的設計產業合作讓台灣的水利發電的很多的工業遺址也都成為跟觀光可以結合這都是你高通貨的事情啊要不然你高通貨裡面你台鐵也好你鐵道局也好沒有人這樣在想出口事情啊所以次郎你可以綜合回覆一下嗎你們怎麼來強化這個呢\n472208\t487926\t我想剛講的比較多的文資大概集中在台鐵的部分台鐵部分剛講我們也編列預算那也成立一個文資科我想這部分大概會後續看人力部分再盡量再補強至於剛講鐵道局28個人那個事情\n491950\t517308\t9個人已經進來 這個我再請鐵道局再演繹一下是不是這裡面是不是要有幾個跟這個文資有關係專長的部分進來我再請他們再演繹一下謝謝次長 我要肯定你們台鐵已經有預算有專責文資科的組織 有相對應的計畫你們組成了鐵路文化保存及活用小組都很好 但是就差一個人力嘛\n517808\t539278\t在下一頁所以我提供給你們經濟部下面針對文化資產的類別他擴大去招募了我認為這個有幫助我覺得台鐵是應當跟上應當學習的在下一頁另外一個除了你自己管理你自己修復就是擴大合作公司協力是一種模式跟地方政府的合作是一種模式\n540098\t561167\t這是我們前幾天思瑤從議員到立委努力了十多年終於讓新北投火車站從彰化流浪到彰化我們把它遷回北投重組這是一個文化資產異地保存的一個美好的美麗的這個土地的鐵路的故事但是呢這是因為有鍥而不捨的北投的民間社團\n561847\t584287\t文史工作者然後push台北市政府來做所以我們台鐵應當去爬梳你剛剛那個小組除了你自己管的資產之外其實可以擴大去盤點台灣的鐵道文化裡面哪些可以跟私部門合作哪些可以跟地方政府推他一把給予誘因就像我們新北投火車站前幾天109歲生日\n585928\t612412\t我們也辦理了活動不管是這個歷史建築本身的活化修復再利用乃至於我們還謝謝台鐵幫我們找了一個藍寶寶當初在行走淡水淡北線的這個鐵路一起來加入我們這個雖然規模不大但在北投也有一個新北投火車站的鐵道的小小的園區這就是跟地方政府合作所以我今天提供了人力\n613575\t615217\t今天的幾個修法我都會支持謝謝主席\n","txt":"好 請次長 級長 馮總好\n好 大家早安今天難得針對這個議案我可以把我長期對於鐵道文化保存文化就是前瞻的議題就教於次長還有局長跟總經理那部部都是文化部這個是在蔡英文總統上任之後我們接駐的最新的文化資產保存的方向也就是過去大家覺得保存文化文資在利用那都是文化部的事 不\n步步都是文化部那下一頁那先扣合著今天的主題喔作為氏族裁員來做長債基金其實是四個面向這個非常清楚我也是在整理這個質詢才發現哇你台鐵公司的話你的這個\n管理的土地的比數2,004筆建物的比數136筆土地面積165萬平方公尺然後呢你承接的短期債務1,699億而且預計要30年來清償完畢這絕對是非常嚴峻的挑戰\n所以我是對於今天的法案我支持幾位委員共同的方向排除國產法然後來適用文字法讓你們有比較大的彈性可以來做清償債務的作為下一頁\n但是呢跟這個議題相關的就必須去討論到我們現在的國鐵公司條例修正案的第十條第二項裡頭呢你們因為不受國產法二十八條的限制未來的開發處分收益及其他相關事項交通部來定其實他新增的業務需求很多包括都更開發的火化\n包括資產產權的處理也包括文化資產的協儲就是我本期非常在意的文化資產的協儲包括該保存的保存該修復的修復該活化再利用的活化再利用該公司協力的公司協力或者是中央地方要分工的都要中央地方去分工可是呢人力在哪裡\n我以你們提供給立法院預算中心的報告裡頭有提到如果要滿足你們新增的這些業務至少要28位新增的人力而目前裡頭台鐵裡頭對於這28個人力的需求你們過去比較專善的也已經有的是專業土地開發的人才那對於文化資產的人才呢誰要回答\n好包委員這個28個人我先報告一下就目前我們爭取到9個員額是那9個裡頭都是土地專業開發人才嗎第二個有關文化資產回到剛剛前面就是委員提到的幾個面向比如說台北機場那台北機場現在就要作為所謂的鐵道博物館那這個博物館的經營其實是由文化部成立台北機場的這個鐵道博物館的籌備處在進行當中\n那是有文化部來幫忙是的也就是說未來有我今天不講台北機場就講你自己的你自己要做文化資產修復活化再利用的事實上這些作業就是文化部在做我們其實我們就是尊重文化部把所有的土地保留給台北機場來做使用\n所以我不講台北機場好嗎我是說其他的部分以你好我剛剛講你有200多個土地2,004筆土地有136筆建物然後有好多好多你要管理的資產價值裡頭可能除了土地開發的人才你還會要有\n必要的文資的人才嗎那28個人力需求你現在只討到9個好那另外的怎麼辦我先不要講文資了那其他怎麼辦你還前十幾個其他我們再繼續爭取那跟委員報告就是說原來屬於我們處理的策略就是文資的部分就讓文資的專業機關來做處理我們的這個案子我們是把容積移轉出來我知道限定做保留好我來換下一個問法下一頁\n我次長你看一看這是我剛擔任立委因為我長期待在文化部門我剛剛擔任立委就是2017整理的資料喔二級機關下轄的文化資產數各部會裡頭交通部是第一名你要管理的有137個以列的文資不管是古蹟歷史建築紀念建築等等而\n潛力文資數還沒被指定但是它有潛力的交通部是所有部會的第四名另外有143處是潛力文資而交通部裡頭的三級機關以下就台鐵局是所有行政院三級機關要管理文化資產數最高的有84處\n我要說這是2017年喔是我們文資法大修之前喔換言之現在因為我沒有再做新的一個調查可能你的文化資產署、潛力文資署包括台鐵都是會增加很多的下頁所以說我其實是要肯定你們\n市長你看齁其實在114年就是你們已經開始想到台鐵公司你們承擔的文化保存修復再利用的時代使命所以你們才會有多了編了1400萬的調研預算不是嗎對這1400萬是幹嘛你們還成立了文資科對我們成立文資科\n就是為了要讓鐵道文物保存活化能夠一個定期的platform有專業的人力有一個平台可以列管可以追蹤可以推展目前台鐵有99處是你們在這個計畫裡頭要去做調研的這就是我剛剛說的是對的方向只是你的人力不要一直跟我講台北機場台北機場是因為有文化部他要作為整個鐵道博物館\n但是你作為交通部的鐵道局下面的台鐵管理的就這麼多你絕對需要跟上然後我很開心啊我去了解發現你們在組織面在預算面在計畫面都有進展啊只是人力面還要再加強對不對下一頁我要做一個提醒你看看同樣是國營企業台糖台電台水\n也都因應了他們第一個文資法的修正需要去由管理機關或所有人來編列預算辦理保存修復管理維護等等這是公有文化資產新的文資法的修正所以呢經濟部向下的這些企業他們都看到他去管理去修繕的這個\n文資的責任他另訂了一個文化資產類別的考試然後去聘任相關的人員這就是我剛剛一直在跟您討論的你剛剛28個你現在才補9個9個裡面可能都是土地開發或是都市計劃的人才你要不要學習一下經濟部的這些作為像台電這幾年對於他的文化資產做得非常好他從修復\n活化再利用他還辦很多的展覽文化路徑的小旅行跟台灣的設計產業合作讓台灣的水利發電的很多的工業遺址也都成為跟觀光可以結合這都是你高通貨的事情啊要不然你高通貨裡面你台鐵也好你鐵道局也好沒有人這樣在想出口事情啊所以次郎你可以綜合回覆一下嗎你們怎麼來強化這個呢\n我想剛講的比較多的文資大概集中在台鐵的部分台鐵部分剛講我們也編列預算那也成立一個文資科我想這部分大概會後續看人力部分再盡量再補強至於剛講鐵道局28個人那個事情\n9個人已經進來 這個我再請鐵道局再演繹一下是不是這裡面是不是要有幾個跟這個文資有關係專長的部分進來我再請他們再演繹一下謝謝次長 我要肯定你們台鐵已經有預算有專責文資科的組織 有相對應的計畫你們組成了鐵路文化保存及活用小組都很好 但是就差一個人力嘛\n在下一頁所以我提供給你們經濟部下面針對文化資產的類別他擴大去招募了我認為這個有幫助我覺得台鐵是應當跟上應當學習的在下一頁另外一個除了你自己管理你自己修復就是擴大合作公司協力是一種模式跟地方政府的合作是一種模式\n這是我們前幾天思瑤從議員到立委努力了十多年終於讓新北投火車站從彰化流浪到彰化我們把它遷回北投重組這是一個文化資產異地保存的一個美好的美麗的這個土地的鐵路的故事但是呢這是因為有鍥而不捨的北投的民間社團\n文史工作者然後push台北市政府來做所以我們台鐵應當去爬梳你剛剛那個小組除了你自己管的資產之外其實可以擴大去盤點台灣的鐵道文化裡面哪些可以跟私部門合作哪些可以跟地方政府推他一把給予誘因就像我們新北投火車站前幾天109歲生日\n我們也辦理了活動不管是這個歷史建築本身的活化修復再利用乃至於我們還謝謝台鐵幫我們找了一個藍寶寶當初在行走淡水淡北線的這個鐵路一起來加入我們這個雖然規模不大但在北投也有一個新北投火車站的鐵道的小小的園區這就是跟地方政府合作所以我今天提供了人力\n今天的幾個修法我都會支持謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.827 --> 00:08.328\n好請次長級長馮總好\n\n00:16.786 --> 00:43.660\n好大家早安今天難得針對這個議案我可以把我長期對於鐵道文化保存文化就是前瞻的議題就教於次長還有局長跟總經理那部部都是文化部這個是在蔡英文總統上任之後我們接駐的最新的文化資產保存的方向也就是過去大家覺得保存文化文資在利用那都是文化部的事不\n\n00:44.660 --> 00:59.866\n步步都是文化部那下一頁那先扣合著今天的主題喔作為氏族裁員來做長債基金其實是四個面向這個非常清楚我也是在整理這個質詢才發現哇你台鐵公司的話你的這個\n\n01:01.187 --> 01:13.355\n管理的土地的比數2,004筆建物的比數136筆土地面積165萬平方公尺然後呢你承接的短期債務1,699億而且預計要30年來清償完畢這絕對是非常嚴峻的挑戰\n\n01:20.660 --> 01:31.446\n所以我是對於今天的法案我支持幾位委員共同的方向排除國產法然後來適用文字法讓你們有比較大的彈性可以來做清償債務的作為下一頁\n\n01:33.530 --> 01:56.195\n但是呢跟這個議題相關的就必須去討論到我們現在的國鐵公司條例修正案的第十條第二項裡頭呢你們因為不受國產法二十八條的限制未來的開發處分收益及其他相關事項交通部來定其實他新增的業務需求很多包括都更開發的火化\n\n01:56.875 --> 02:18.624\n包括資產產權的處理也包括文化資產的協儲就是我本期非常在意的文化資產的協儲包括該保存的保存該修復的修復該活化再利用的活化再利用該公司協力的公司協力或者是中央地方要分工的都要中央地方去分工可是呢人力在哪裡\n\n02:20.104 --> 02:44.921\n我以你們提供給立法院預算中心的報告裡頭有提到如果要滿足你們新增的這些業務至少要28位新增的人力而目前裡頭台鐵裡頭對於這28個人力的需求你們過去比較專善的也已經有的是專業土地開發的人才那對於文化資產的人才呢誰要回答\n\n02:48.319 --> 03:11.956\n好包委員這個28個人我先報告一下就目前我們爭取到9個員額是那9個裡頭都是土地專業開發人才嗎第二個有關文化資產回到剛剛前面就是委員提到的幾個面向比如說台北機場那台北機場現在就要作為所謂的鐵道博物館那這個博物館的經營其實是由文化部成立台北機場的這個鐵道博物館的籌備處在進行當中\n\n03:13.777 --> 03:30.243\n那是有文化部來幫忙是的也就是說未來有我今天不講台北機場就講你自己的你自己要做文化資產修復活化再利用的事實上這些作業就是文化部在做我們其實我們就是尊重文化部把所有的土地保留給台北機場來做使用\n\n03:30.603 --> 03:49.318\n所以我不講台北機場好嗎我是說其他的部分以你好我剛剛講你有200多個土地2,004筆土地有136筆建物然後有好多好多你要管理的資產價值裡頭可能除了土地開發的人才你還會要有\n\n03:50.580 --> 04:16.327\n必要的文資的人才嗎那28個人力需求你現在只討到9個好那另外的怎麼辦我先不要講文資了那其他怎麼辦你還前十幾個其他我們再繼續爭取那跟委員報告就是說原來屬於我們處理的策略就是文資的部分就讓文資的專業機關來做處理我們的這個案子我們是把容積移轉出來我知道限定做保留好我來換下一個問法下一頁\n\n04:18.047 --> 04:40.172\n我次長你看一看這是我剛擔任立委因為我長期待在文化部門我剛剛擔任立委就是2017整理的資料喔二級機關下轄的文化資產數各部會裡頭交通部是第一名你要管理的有137個以列的文資不管是古蹟歷史建築紀念建築等等而\n\n04:42.348 --> 04:59.377\n潛力文資數還沒被指定但是它有潛力的交通部是所有部會的第四名另外有143處是潛力文資而交通部裡頭的三級機關以下就台鐵局是所有行政院三級機關要管理文化資產數最高的有84處\n\n05:01.218 --> 05:18.300\n我要說這是2017年喔是我們文資法大修之前喔換言之現在因為我沒有再做新的一個調查可能你的文化資產署、潛力文資署包括台鐵都是會增加很多的下頁所以說我其實是要肯定你們\n\n05:19.401 --> 05:42.615\n市長你看齁其實在114年就是你們已經開始想到台鐵公司你們承擔的文化保存修復再利用的時代使命所以你們才會有多了編了1400萬的調研預算不是嗎對這1400萬是幹嘛你們還成立了文資科對我們成立文資科\n\n05:43.355 --> 06:09.744\n就是為了要讓鐵道文物保存活化能夠一個定期的platform有專業的人力有一個平台可以列管可以追蹤可以推展目前台鐵有99處是你們在這個計畫裡頭要去做調研的這就是我剛剛說的是對的方向只是你的人力不要一直跟我講台北機場台北機場是因為有文化部他要作為整個鐵道博物館\n\n06:10.424 --> 06:31.872\n但是你作為交通部的鐵道局下面的台鐵管理的就這麼多你絕對需要跟上然後我很開心啊我去了解發現你們在組織面在預算面在計畫面都有進展啊只是人力面還要再加強對不對下一頁我要做一個提醒你看看同樣是國營企業台糖台電台水\n\n06:37.150 --> 06:56.442\n也都因應了他們第一個文資法的修正需要去由管理機關或所有人來編列預算辦理保存修復管理維護等等這是公有文化資產新的文資法的修正所以呢經濟部向下的這些企業他們都看到他去管理去修繕的這個\n\n06:58.183 --> 07:25.182\n文資的責任他另訂了一個文化資產類別的考試然後去聘任相關的人員這就是我剛剛一直在跟您討論的你剛剛28個你現在才補9個9個裡面可能都是土地開發或是都市計劃的人才你要不要學習一下經濟部的這些作為像台電這幾年對於他的文化資產做得非常好他從修復\n\n07:26.303 --> 07:50.037\n活化再利用他還辦很多的展覽文化路徑的小旅行跟台灣的設計產業合作讓台灣的水利發電的很多的工業遺址也都成為跟觀光可以結合這都是你高通貨的事情啊要不然你高通貨裡面你台鐵也好你鐵道局也好沒有人這樣在想出口事情啊所以次郎你可以綜合回覆一下嗎你們怎麼來強化這個呢\n\n07:52.208 --> 08:07.926\n我想剛講的比較多的文資大概集中在台鐵的部分台鐵部分剛講我們也編列預算那也成立一個文資科我想這部分大概會後續看人力部分再盡量再補強至於剛講鐵道局28個人那個事情\n\n08:11.950 --> 08:37.308\n9個人已經進來這個我再請鐵道局再演繹一下是不是這裡面是不是要有幾個跟這個文資有關係專長的部分進來我再請他們再演繹一下謝謝次長我要肯定你們台鐵已經有預算有專責文資科的組織有相對應的計畫你們組成了鐵路文化保存及活用小組都很好但是就差一個人力嘛\n\n08:37.808 --> 08:59.278\n在下一頁所以我提供給你們經濟部下面針對文化資產的類別他擴大去招募了我認為這個有幫助我覺得台鐵是應當跟上應當學習的在下一頁另外一個除了你自己管理你自己修復就是擴大合作公司協力是一種模式跟地方政府的合作是一種模式\n\n09:00.098 --> 09:21.167\n這是我們前幾天思瑤從議員到立委努力了十多年終於讓新北投火車站從彰化流浪到彰化我們把它遷回北投重組這是一個文化資產異地保存的一個美好的美麗的這個土地的鐵路的故事但是呢這是因為有鍥而不捨的北投的民間社團\n\n09:21.847 --> 09:44.287\n文史工作者然後push台北市政府來做所以我們台鐵應當去爬梳你剛剛那個小組除了你自己管的資產之外其實可以擴大去盤點台灣的鐵道文化裡面哪些可以跟私部門合作哪些可以跟地方政府推他一把給予誘因就像我們新北投火車站前幾天109歲生日\n\n09:45.928 --> 10:12.412\n我們也辦理了活動不管是這個歷史建築本身的活化修復再利用乃至於我們還謝謝台鐵幫我們找了一個藍寶寶當初在行走淡水淡北線的這個鐵路一起來加入我們這個雖然規模不大但在北投也有一個新北投火車站的鐵道的小小的園區這就是跟地方政府合作所以我今天提供了人力\n\n10:13.575 --> 10:15.217\n今天的幾個修法我都會支持謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.827,"end":8.328,"text":"好 請次長 級長 馮總好"},{"start":16.786,"end":43.66,"text":"好 大家早安今天難得針對這個議案我可以把我長期對於鐵道文化保存文化就是前瞻的議題就教於次長還有局長跟總經理那部部都是文化部這個是在蔡英文總統上任之後我們接駐的最新的文化資產保存的方向也就是過去大家覺得保存文化文資在利用那都是文化部的事 不"},{"start":44.66,"end":59.866,"text":"步步都是文化部那下一頁那先扣合著今天的主題喔作為氏族裁員來做長債基金其實是四個面向這個非常清楚我也是在整理這個質詢才發現哇你台鐵公司的話你的這個"},{"start":61.187,"end":73.355,"text":"管理的土地的比數2,004筆建物的比數136筆土地面積165萬平方公尺然後呢你承接的短期債務1,699億而且預計要30年來清償完畢這絕對是非常嚴峻的挑戰"},{"start":80.66,"end":91.446,"text":"所以我是對於今天的法案我支持幾位委員共同的方向排除國產法然後來適用文字法讓你們有比較大的彈性可以來做清償債務的作為下一頁"},{"start":93.53,"end":116.195,"text":"但是呢跟這個議題相關的就必須去討論到我們現在的國鐵公司條例修正案的第十條第二項裡頭呢你們因為不受國產法二十八條的限制未來的開發處分收益及其他相關事項交通部來定其實他新增的業務需求很多包括都更開發的火化"},{"start":116.875,"end":138.624,"text":"包括資產產權的處理也包括文化資產的協儲就是我本期非常在意的文化資產的協儲包括該保存的保存該修復的修復該活化再利用的活化再利用該公司協力的公司協力或者是中央地方要分工的都要中央地方去分工可是呢人力在哪裡"},{"start":140.104,"end":164.921,"text":"我以你們提供給立法院預算中心的報告裡頭有提到如果要滿足你們新增的這些業務至少要28位新增的人力而目前裡頭台鐵裡頭對於這28個人力的需求你們過去比較專善的也已經有的是專業土地開發的人才那對於文化資產的人才呢誰要回答"},{"start":168.319,"end":191.956,"text":"好包委員這個28個人我先報告一下就目前我們爭取到9個員額是那9個裡頭都是土地專業開發人才嗎第二個有關文化資產回到剛剛前面就是委員提到的幾個面向比如說台北機場那台北機場現在就要作為所謂的鐵道博物館那這個博物館的經營其實是由文化部成立台北機場的這個鐵道博物館的籌備處在進行當中"},{"start":193.777,"end":210.243,"text":"那是有文化部來幫忙是的也就是說未來有我今天不講台北機場就講你自己的你自己要做文化資產修復活化再利用的事實上這些作業就是文化部在做我們其實我們就是尊重文化部把所有的土地保留給台北機場來做使用"},{"start":210.603,"end":229.318,"text":"所以我不講台北機場好嗎我是說其他的部分以你好我剛剛講你有200多個土地2,004筆土地有136筆建物然後有好多好多你要管理的資產價值裡頭可能除了土地開發的人才你還會要有"},{"start":230.58,"end":256.327,"text":"必要的文資的人才嗎那28個人力需求你現在只討到9個好那另外的怎麼辦我先不要講文資了那其他怎麼辦你還前十幾個其他我們再繼續爭取那跟委員報告就是說原來屬於我們處理的策略就是文資的部分就讓文資的專業機關來做處理我們的這個案子我們是把容積移轉出來我知道限定做保留好我來換下一個問法下一頁"},{"start":258.047,"end":280.172,"text":"我次長你看一看這是我剛擔任立委因為我長期待在文化部門我剛剛擔任立委就是2017整理的資料喔二級機關下轄的文化資產數各部會裡頭交通部是第一名你要管理的有137個以列的文資不管是古蹟歷史建築紀念建築等等而"},{"start":282.348,"end":299.377,"text":"潛力文資數還沒被指定但是它有潛力的交通部是所有部會的第四名另外有143處是潛力文資而交通部裡頭的三級機關以下就台鐵局是所有行政院三級機關要管理文化資產數最高的有84處"},{"start":301.218,"end":318.3,"text":"我要說這是2017年喔是我們文資法大修之前喔換言之現在因為我沒有再做新的一個調查可能你的文化資產署、潛力文資署包括台鐵都是會增加很多的下頁所以說我其實是要肯定你們"},{"start":319.401,"end":342.615,"text":"市長你看齁其實在114年就是你們已經開始想到台鐵公司你們承擔的文化保存修復再利用的時代使命所以你們才會有多了編了1400萬的調研預算不是嗎對這1400萬是幹嘛你們還成立了文資科對我們成立文資科"},{"start":343.355,"end":369.744,"text":"就是為了要讓鐵道文物保存活化能夠一個定期的platform有專業的人力有一個平台可以列管可以追蹤可以推展目前台鐵有99處是你們在這個計畫裡頭要去做調研的這就是我剛剛說的是對的方向只是你的人力不要一直跟我講台北機場台北機場是因為有文化部他要作為整個鐵道博物館"},{"start":370.424,"end":391.872,"text":"但是你作為交通部的鐵道局下面的台鐵管理的就這麼多你絕對需要跟上然後我很開心啊我去了解發現你們在組織面在預算面在計畫面都有進展啊只是人力面還要再加強對不對下一頁我要做一個提醒你看看同樣是國營企業台糖台電台水"},{"start":397.15,"end":416.442,"text":"也都因應了他們第一個文資法的修正需要去由管理機關或所有人來編列預算辦理保存修復管理維護等等這是公有文化資產新的文資法的修正所以呢經濟部向下的這些企業他們都看到他去管理去修繕的這個"},{"start":418.183,"end":445.182,"text":"文資的責任他另訂了一個文化資產類別的考試然後去聘任相關的人員這就是我剛剛一直在跟您討論的你剛剛28個你現在才補9個9個裡面可能都是土地開發或是都市計劃的人才你要不要學習一下經濟部的這些作為像台電這幾年對於他的文化資產做得非常好他從修復"},{"start":446.303,"end":470.037,"text":"活化再利用他還辦很多的展覽文化路徑的小旅行跟台灣的設計產業合作讓台灣的水利發電的很多的工業遺址也都成為跟觀光可以結合這都是你高通貨的事情啊要不然你高通貨裡面你台鐵也好你鐵道局也好沒有人這樣在想出口事情啊所以次郎你可以綜合回覆一下嗎你們怎麼來強化這個呢"},{"start":472.208,"end":487.926,"text":"我想剛講的比較多的文資大概集中在台鐵的部分台鐵部分剛講我們也編列預算那也成立一個文資科我想這部分大概會後續看人力部分再盡量再補強至於剛講鐵道局28個人那個事情"},{"start":491.95,"end":517.308,"text":"9個人已經進來 這個我再請鐵道局再演繹一下是不是這裡面是不是要有幾個跟這個文資有關係專長的部分進來我再請他們再演繹一下謝謝次長 我要肯定你們台鐵已經有預算有專責文資科的組織 有相對應的計畫你們組成了鐵路文化保存及活用小組都很好 但是就差一個人力嘛"},{"start":517.808,"end":539.278,"text":"在下一頁所以我提供給你們經濟部下面針對文化資產的類別他擴大去招募了我認為這個有幫助我覺得台鐵是應當跟上應當學習的在下一頁另外一個除了你自己管理你自己修復就是擴大合作公司協力是一種模式跟地方政府的合作是一種模式"},{"start":540.098,"end":561.167,"text":"這是我們前幾天思瑤從議員到立委努力了十多年終於讓新北投火車站從彰化流浪到彰化我們把它遷回北投重組這是一個文化資產異地保存的一個美好的美麗的這個土地的鐵路的故事但是呢這是因為有鍥而不捨的北投的民間社團"},{"start":561.847,"end":584.287,"text":"文史工作者然後push台北市政府來做所以我們台鐵應當去爬梳你剛剛那個小組除了你自己管的資產之外其實可以擴大去盤點台灣的鐵道文化裡面哪些可以跟私部門合作哪些可以跟地方政府推他一把給予誘因就像我們新北投火車站前幾天109歲生日"},{"start":585.928,"end":612.412,"text":"我們也辦理了活動不管是這個歷史建築本身的活化修復再利用乃至於我們還謝謝台鐵幫我們找了一個藍寶寶當初在行走淡水淡北線的這個鐵路一起來加入我們這個雖然規模不大但在北投也有一個新北投火車站的鐵道的小小的園區這就是跟地方政府合作所以我今天提供了人力"},{"start":613.575,"end":615.217,"text":"今天的幾個修法我都會支持謝謝主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":590,"blocks":[["吳委員思瑤：（11時42分）非常謝謝召委，願意跟我調換次序。有請伍次長、楊局長及臺鐵馮總。"],["主席：請次長、局長、馮總。"],["伍次長勝園：委員好。"],["吳委員思瑤：大家早安。今天難得針對這個議案，我可以把我長期對於保存鐵道文化、就是前瞻的議題就教於次長、局長及總經理。部部都是文化部，這個是在蔡英文總統上任之後，我們揭櫫的最新文化資產保存的方向，也就是過去大家覺得保存文化、文資再利用都是文化部的事，不！部部都是文化部。先扣合著今天的主題，適足財源來做償債基金其實是四個面向，這個非常清楚，我也是在整理質詢資料時才發現，哇！臺鐵公司化管理的土地筆數是2,004筆、建物筆數是136筆，土地面積是165萬平方公尺，承接的短期債務是1,699億，而且預計要30年來清償完畢，這絕對是非常嚴峻的挑戰。","對於今天的法案，我支持幾位委員共同的方向，排除國產法，然後適用文資法，讓你們有比較大的彈性可以來做清償債務的作為。但是跟這個議題相關的，就必須去討論到現在國鐵公司條例修正案的第十條第二項，你們因為不受國產法第二十八條的限制，所以未來的開發、處分、收益及其他相關事項由交通部來定。其實它新增的業務需求很多，包括都更開發活化、資產產權處理，也包括文化資產協處，就是本席非常在意的，文化資產的協處包括該保存的保存、該修復的修復、該活化再利用的活化再利用、該公私協力的公私協力，或者是中央、地方要分工的都要中央、地方去分工。","可是人力在哪裡？你們提供給立法院預算中心的報告裡頭有提到，如果要滿足你們新增的這些業務，至少要28位新增的人力，而目前臺鐵對於這28個人力的需求，你們過去比較專擅的、已經有的是專業土地開發人才，但對於文化資產的人才呢？誰要回答？"],["楊局長正君：報告委員，這28個人我先報告一下，目前我們爭取到9個員額。"],["吳委員思瑤：是，那9個裡頭都是專業土地開發人才嗎？"],["楊局長正君：是。第二個，有關文化資產，回到剛剛前面委員提到的幾個面向，比如臺北機廠，臺北機廠現在就要作為所謂的鐵道博物館，這個博物館的經營其實是由文化部成立的臺北機廠鐵道博物館籌備處正在進行當中。"],["吳委員思瑤：對，這是由文化部來幫忙的。"],["楊局長正君：是的，也就是未來……"],["吳委員思瑤：我今天不講臺北機廠，就講你們自己的，你們自己要做文化資產修復活化再利用的部分。"],["楊局長正君：事實上這些作業是文化部在做，我們就是尊重文化部，把所有的土地保留給臺北機廠來做使用。"],["吳委員思瑤：所以我不講臺北機廠，好嗎？我是說其他的部分，我剛剛講你們有2,004筆土地、136筆建物，好多好多你們要管理的資產價值裡頭，可能除了土地開發的人才，你們還會要有必要的文資人才嘛！有28個人力需求，你們現在只討到9個，那另外的怎麼辦？我先不要講文資，那其他的怎麼辦？你還欠十幾個。"],["楊局長正君：其他的我們再繼續爭取。也跟委員報告，原來屬於我們處理的策略，就是文資的部分就讓文資的專業機關來做處理，而這個案子，我們是把容積移轉出來，現地做保留。"],["吳委員思瑤：我知道，好，我來換一個問法。次長，你看一看簡報，因為我長期待在文化部門，這是我剛擔任立委於2017年所整理的資料，二級機關下轄的文化資產數，各部會裡頭交通部是第1名，要管理的有137個已列文資，不管是古蹟、歷史建築、紀念建築等等；而潛力文資數，即還沒被指定，但是有潛力的，交通部是所有部會的第4名，另外有143處是潛力文資；而交通部裡頭的臺鐵局是所有行政院三級機關要管理文化資產數最高的，有84處。我要說，這是2017年喔！是文資法大修之前，換言之，因為我沒有再做新的調查，可能你們的文化資產數、潛力文資數、包括臺鐵的，都是會增加很多的。","我其實是要肯定你們，次長，你看，其實在114年你們已經開始想到臺鐵公司承擔文化保存、修復再利用的時代使命，所以你們才會編了1,400萬的調研預算，不是嗎？"],["伍次長勝園：對。"],["吳委員思瑤：這1,400萬是幹嘛？你們還成立了文資科，對不對？"],["伍次長勝園：對，我們成立文資科。"],["吳委員思瑤：就是為了要讓鐵道文物保存活化能夠有一個定期的platform，有專業的人力、有一個平臺可以列管、可以追蹤、可以推展，目前臺鐵有99處是你們在這個計畫裡頭要去做調研的。這就是我剛剛說的，是對的方向，只是你們的人力，不要一直跟我講臺北機廠，臺北機廠是因為有文化部要作為整個鐵道博物館，但是交通部鐵道局下面的臺鐵管理的就這麼多，你們絕對需要跟上。然後我很開心，我去了解後發現你們在組織面、在預算面、在計畫面都有進展，只是人力面還要再加強，對不對？","我要做一個提醒，你看看，同樣是國營企業，台糖、台電、台水也都因應了文資法的修正，公有文化資產由管理機關或所有人來編列預算，辦理保存、修復及管理維護等等，這是新的文資法的修正。所以經濟部項下的這些企業，他們都看到它去管理、去修繕文資的責任，它另訂了一個文化資產類別的考試，然後去聘任相關的人員。這就是我剛剛一直在跟您討論的，剛才提到的28個，你們現在才補9個，9個裡面可能都是土地開發或是都市計畫的人才，你要不要學習一下經濟部的這些作為？像台電這幾年對於他們的文化資產做得非常好，除了修復、活化再利用，它還辦很多的展覽、文化路徑小旅行，跟臺灣的設計產業合作，讓臺灣很多水力發電的工業遺址也都成為跟觀光可以結合。這都是交通部的事情啊！但是交通部裡面，臺鐵也好，鐵道局也好，沒有人這樣思考事情的，所以次長可以綜合回復一下嗎？你們怎麼來強化這個呢？"],["伍次長勝園：我想剛剛講的，比較多的文資大概集中在臺鐵的部分。"],["吳委員思瑤：是。"],["伍次長勝園：臺鐵的部分，剛剛講我們有編列預算，也成立了文資科，我想這部分後續大概會看人力的部分再儘量補強。至於剛剛講到鐵道局28個人的事情，29個人嗎？"],["吳委員思瑤：28。"],["伍次長勝園：28個人那件事情，9個人已經進來，這個我再請鐵道局研議一下，這裡面是不是要有幾個跟文資有關係、有專長的人進來，我再請他們研議一下。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，謝謝次長，我要肯定你們，臺鐵已經有預算、有專責文資科的組織、有相對應的計畫，你們組成了鐵路文化保存及活用小組，都很好，但是就差人力，所以我提供建議給你們，經濟部下面針對文化資產的類別擴大去招募了，我認為這個有幫助，我覺得臺鐵是應當跟上、應當學習的。","另外，除了你自己管理、你自己修復，就是擴大合作，公私協力是一種模式，跟地方政府的合作是一種模式。這是我們前幾天的活動，思瑤從議員到立委努力了十多年，新北投火車站流浪到彰化，我們終於把它遷回北投重組，這是文化資產異地保存一個美好的、美麗的、在這個土地上的鐵路故事，但這是因為有鍥而不捨的北投民間社團、文史工作者push臺北市政府來做，所以臺鐵應當去爬梳。剛剛那個小組，除了你自己管的資產之外，其實可以擴大去盤點臺灣的鐵道文化裡面哪些可以跟私部門合作，哪些可以跟地方政府合作，推它一把，給予誘因。就像新北投火車站前幾天109歲生日，我們也辦理了活動，除了這個歷史建築本身的活化修復再利用，我們也謝謝臺鐵，幫我們找了一個「藍寶寶」，當初行走淡北線的鐵路，一起來加入我們這邊，雖然規模不大，但在北投也有一個新北投火車站的鐵道小小園區，這就是跟地方政府合作。所以我今天提供了人力上的專業需求，以及擴大你的多元管道來修復，因為這實在是太重要的文化資產了，你們剛好也管觀光嘛，是不是可以在這方面再加把勁？好嗎？"],["伍次長勝園：好。"],["吳委員思瑤：人力是重中之重，學學經濟部怎麼做的。"],["伍次長勝園：好。"],["吳委員思瑤：今天的幾個修法我都會支持，謝謝。"],["伍次長勝園：謝謝委員的提醒。"],["吳委員思瑤：辛苦了！謝謝主席。"],["伍次長勝園：好，謝謝。"],["主席：不好意思，許智傑跟莊瑞雄對調。","我們現在請莊瑞雄委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":418,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-23,36-1","speakers":["許智傑","洪孟楷","黃國昌","陳培瑜","廖先翔","李昆澤","魯明哲","林國成","陳素月","王義川","林俊憲","邱若華","蔡其昌","徐富癸","吳思瑤","莊瑞雄","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","何欣純","游顥","王美惠","葉元之","黃健豪","沈發惠","翁曉玲"],"page_start":355,"meetingDate":["2025-04-07"],"gazette_id":"1143401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143401_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員蔡其昌等17人、二、委員林宜瑾等27人、三、委員楊瓊瓔等21人及四、委員徐富癸\n等17人分別擬具「國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司設置條例第十條及第二十三條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1143401_00012"}}}