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\"這相關的工程那應該是要有什麼樣子的一個方式能夠持續來進行因為它原來就是特別預算在公務預算的原來的編列裡面這個本來都是屬於地方的權責我剛剛講的是115年現在在編列預算嘛那所以你們是不是有應該要提出這樣相關的預算我說明一下就是原來在公務預算的認定裡面\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 284.763, \"end\": 285.084, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 285.084, \"end\": 285.184, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 285.184, \"end\": 285.404, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 285.404, \"end\": 285.584, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 285.584, \"end\": 286.124, \"score\": 0.696}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 286.124, \"end\": 286.284, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 286.284, \"end\": 286.565, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 286.565, \"end\": 286.685, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 286.685, \"end\": 287.085, \"score\": 0.713}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 287.085, \"end\": 287.205, \"score\": 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\"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 300.795, \"end\": 301.716, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 301.716, \"end\": 301.936, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 301.936, \"end\": 302.136, \"score\": 0.758}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 302.136, \"end\": 302.517, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 302.517, \"end\": 302.897, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 302.897, \"end\": 303.337, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 303.337, \"end\": 303.357, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 303.357, \"end\": 303.537, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 303.537, \"end\": 303.698, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 303.698, \"end\": 303.798, \"score\": 0.692}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 303.798, \"end\": 304.058, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 304.058, \"end\": 304.218, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 304.218, \"end\": 304.378, \"score\": 0.7}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 304.378, \"end\": 304.758, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 304.758, \"end\": 305.059, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 305.059, \"end\": 305.499, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 305.499, \"end\": 305.699, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 305.699, \"end\": 306.039, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 306.039, \"end\": 306.119, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 306.119, \"end\": 306.139, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 307.372, \"end\": 315.698, \"text\": \"提升道路品質也就是道路的重新跑鋪是屬於地方的全責如果沒有特別預算的話公務預算在過去在編列的時候他是不同意的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 307.372, \"end\": 307.472, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"升\", \"start\": 307.472, \"end\": 307.652, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 307.652, \"end\": 307.792, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"路\", \"start\": 307.792, \"end\": 307.952, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"品\", \"start\": 307.952, \"end\": 308.273, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 308.273, \"end\": 308.353, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 308.353, \"end\": 308.473, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 308.473, \"end\": 308.553, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 308.553, \"end\": 308.733, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"路\", \"start\": 308.733, \"end\": 308.853, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 308.853, \"end\": 308.973, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 308.973, \"end\": 309.173, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 309.173, \"end\": 309.373, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"跑\", \"start\": 309.373, \"end\": 309.774, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"鋪\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 309.774, \"end\": 310.114, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"屬\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 310.114, \"end\": 310.214, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 310.214, \"end\": 310.354, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 310.354, \"end\": 310.534, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 310.534, \"end\": 310.654, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 310.654, \"end\": 311.655, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"責\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 311.655, \"end\": 311.775, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 311.775, \"end\": 311.855, \"score\": 0.755}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 311.855, \"end\": 311.975, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 311.975, \"end\": 312.115, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 312.115, \"end\": 312.275, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 312.275, \"end\": 312.556, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 312.556, \"end\": 312.716, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 312.716, \"end\": 313.036, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 313.036, \"end\": 313.476, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 313.476, \"end\": 313.636, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 313.636, \"end\": 313.997, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 313.997, \"end\": 314.157, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 314.157, \"end\": 314.477, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"編\"}, {\"word\": \"列\", \"start\": 314.477, \"end\": 314.617, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 314.617, \"end\": 314.717, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 314.717, \"end\": 314.917, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 314.917, \"end\": 315.097, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 315.097, \"end\": 315.197, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 315.197, \"end\": 315.318, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 315.318, \"end\": 315.538, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 315.538, \"end\": 315.678, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 315.678, \"end\": 315.698, \"score\": 0.963}]}, {\"start\": 316.403, \"end\": 346.052, \"text\": \"那所以你現在的意思就是說只要地方的預算不足的話你們還是可以編列公務預算來去做這樣子的沒有就是公務預算裡面因為這是屬於地方的權責所以這個部分在公務預算裡面也就是說現在我們的財化法通過之後那當地方有經費的時候就可以用這筆錢來去做那也是地方政府要自行自行那就是說現在找到這個今年結束之後有關的品質感應計畫就跟國土署沒有關係了是嗎不是是因為我們就沒有就不會再編列了\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 316.403, \"end\": 316.523, \"score\": 0.773}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 316.523, \"end\": 316.683, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 316.683, \"end\": 316.783, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 316.783, \"end\": 316.943, \"score\": 0.704}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 316.943, \"end\": 317.123, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 317.123, \"end\": 317.223, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 317.223, \"end\": 317.383, 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\"報告委員原來在上一年度的時候我們的租金補貼是50萬戶但是我們後來在跟行政院要求的時候就是我們的預估可能會達到75萬戶所以現在所說的200億是從這個75萬戶裡面的比例在往前推的好那請問一下國土府那邊我們針對剛剛講的這個400億中凍結10%的這個41億的會凍結41億的部分會讓75萬人全數拿不到租金補助嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 581.537, \"end\": 581.697, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 581.697, \"end\": 582.198, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 582.198, \"end\": 582.718, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 582.718, \"end\": 582.978, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 582.978, \"end\": 583.138, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 583.138, \"end\": 583.278, \"score\": 0.782}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 583.278, \"end\": 583.478, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 583.478, \"end\": 583.618, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 583.618, \"end\": 583.898, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 583.898, \"end\": 584.119, \"score\": 0.877}, 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{\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"土\", \"start\": 592.103, \"end\": 592.123, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 592.123, \"end\": 592.143, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 592.143, \"end\": 592.223, \"score\": 0.732}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 592.223, \"end\": 592.323, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"針\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 592.323, \"end\": 592.383, \"score\": 0.633}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 592.383, \"end\": 592.463, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"凍\"}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"%\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 592.463, \"end\": 592.483, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", 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592.984, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 592.984, \"end\": 593.004, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 610.538, \"end\": 639.185, \"text\": \"我說如果這算法上就是說因為我們現在變成說每一個月每一個月至少要31億到36億之間的數字所以最有可能就是到11月就完全不夠了所以說到11月嘛是嗎因為你租金補貼是每個月發放的所以到11月也就是說11月之前你只要提出解凍案就應該沒有這個問題吧也不會讓75萬租戶拿不到吧\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 610.538, \"end\": 611.218, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 611.218, \"end\": 612.098, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 612.098, \"end\": 612.358, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 612.358, \"end\": 612.578, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 612.578, \"end\": 612.759, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 612.759, \"end\": 613.299, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 613.299, \"end\": 613.499, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 613.499, \"end\": 614.119, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, 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617.76, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 617.76, \"end\": 618.64, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 618.64, \"end\": 619.5, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 619.5, \"end\": 619.88, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 619.88, \"end\": 620.28, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 620.28, \"end\": 620.82, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 620.82, \"end\": 621.021, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 621.021, \"end\": 621.541, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 621.541, \"end\": 621.661, \"score\": 0.764}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 621.661, \"end\": 621.821, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 621.821, \"end\": 621.941, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 621.941, \"end\": 622.081, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": 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\"1\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 626.782, \"end\": 626.942, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 626.942, \"end\": 627.262, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 627.262, \"end\": 627.822, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 627.822, \"end\": 627.962, \"score\": 0.679}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 627.962, \"end\": 628.422, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"租\", \"start\": 628.422, \"end\": 628.562, \"score\": 0.784}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 628.562, \"end\": 629.243, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"貼\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 629.243, \"end\": 629.323, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"每\", \"start\": 629.323, \"end\": 629.783, \"score\": 0.775}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 629.783, \"end\": 630.523, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 630.523, \"end\": 630.783, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 630.783, \"end\": 631.163, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 631.163, \"end\": 631.283, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 631.283, \"end\": 631.383, \"score\": 0.759}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 631.383, \"end\": 631.863, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 631.863, \"end\": 632.063, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 632.063, \"end\": 632.203, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 632.203, \"end\": 632.523, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 632.523, \"end\": 632.763, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 632.763, \"end\": 633.023, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 633.023, \"end\": 633.283, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 633.283, \"end\": 633.524, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 633.524, \"end\": 633.664, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 633.664, \"end\": 633.684, 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{\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"租\", \"start\": 638.185, \"end\": 638.625, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"戶\"}, {\"word\": \"拿\", \"start\": 638.625, \"end\": 638.825, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 638.825, \"end\": 638.965, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 638.965, \"end\": 639.165, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"吧\", \"start\": 639.165, \"end\": 639.185, \"score\": 0.909}]}, {\"start\": 640.666, \"end\": 655.295, \"text\": \"對因為他變成說因為現在還有一個中央政府總預算的這個統三的600多億還沒有確認所以我們現在變成到底他最後能不能給我們這個我們也不知道請問一下這個414億的部分我們這個案子是凍結10%沒錯吧是\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 640.666, \"end\": 640.907, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 640.907, \"end\": 641.287, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 641.287, \"end\": 641.707, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 641.707, \"end\": 641.727, \"score\": 0.046}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 641.727, \"end\": 642.327, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 642.327, \"end\": 642.407, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 642.407, \"end\": 642.568, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 642.568, \"end\": 642.668, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 642.668, \"end\": 642.848, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 642.848, \"end\": 642.968, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 642.968, \"end\": 643.468, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 643.468, \"end\": 644.188, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 644.188, \"end\": 645.009, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 645.009, \"end\": 645.189, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 645.189, \"end\": 645.669, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 645.669, \"end\": 646.03, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 646.03, \"end\": 646.15, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 646.15, \"end\": 646.57, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 646.57, \"end\": 646.67, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 646.67, \"end\": 646.73, \"score\": 0.592}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 646.73, \"end\": 647.17, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 647.17, \"end\": 647.29, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 647.29, \"end\": 648.051, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 648.051, \"end\": 648.251, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 648.251, \"end\": 648.411, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 648.411, \"end\": 648.611, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 648.611, \"end\": 648.751, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 648.751, \"end\": 648.851, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 648.851, \"end\": 648.971, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 648.971, \"end\": 649.071, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 649.071, \"end\": 649.211, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 649.211, \"end\": 649.812, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 649.812, \"end\": 649.932, \"score\": 0.786}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 649.932, \"end\": 650.132, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 650.132, \"end\": 650.252, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 650.252, \"end\": 650.412, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 650.412, \"end\": 651.012, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 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00:00:14,384\n謝謝主席我們請內政部劉世芳部長跟國土署伍興修署長劉部長吳署長有請委員好部長好我想請教部長就是目前國土署在辦理道路改善有三項計畫正在進行那目前國土署執行情況也良好而且地方鄉鎮市公所也都給予高度的評價\n\n2\n00:00:34,116 --> 00:00:52,081\n那現在還有幾個問題要請教部長跟署長就是關於經費補助的問題因為114年的總預算總統已經公佈了那立法院針對地方補助經費沒有三減也沒有凍結那為什麼現在補助的經費遲遲無法撥付給地方政府\n\n3\n00:00:53,106 --> 00:00:55,969\n報告委員是這樣子就是說在我們3月21的時候呢是確實是總統有公布所謂的114年的這個相關的預算但是這裡面有一項我所瞭解就是說至暗難行的部分在於說原來啊\n\n4\n00:01:11,648 --> 00:01:30,111\n一共有通山303億的部分我們已經處理好但是有一個就是行政院立法院要求行政院去自行去解決什麼叫山洞的部分有600多億那600多億的這個預算呢目前行政院跟立法院好像還沒有溝通好所以我們對最像是有疑慮的但是我現在的問題是說我們對於地方政府的補助經費也沒有刪減也沒有凍結那為什麼這個部分沒有辦法\n\n5\n00:01:40,033 --> 00:01:53,643\n報告委員按照預算在執行的過程當中如果你已經是過去在長久執行的預算正在執行當中的話呢在我們的預算的這個撥補方面比較沒有問題但是如果是新增預算的話就會有這個問題\n\n6\n00:01:59,605 --> 00:02:29,068\n有些是業務費的部分也是被凍掉那是不是可以請市長說明一下好了因為如果說是執行中的案子啦就是生活圈跟這個永續的部分執行中的案子大概都沒有問題那這是新增的提案的部分就是新增提案的部分那就是因為這個院還沒有做最後的確認的話我們也不確定但是我們審查還是維持有審查那也就是說不是新增的部分你們應該經費都要撥下去了是嗎\n\n7\n00:02:29,758 --> 00:02:55,746\n就是執行中的部分比較沒有問題執行中的唯有問題是那所以你現在提的是指說還有286案還待核定的這些案件嗎我說明一下前瞻的部分就完全沒有辦法因為前瞻沒有通過前瞻沒有通過所以前瞻的部分是完全我想請一下署長就是說前四次這是第五期嘛前四次四期的這個前瞻計畫你們也常常是遇到先核定\n\n8\n00:02:56,346 --> 00:03:23,822\n之後然後經費才通過才撥補下去的有這種狀況吧我說明一下好了因為如果說現在前瞻是因為這一期完全沒有到目前完全沒有通過所以我們審查完以後也有核定但是我們就現在告訴他因為預算完全請問一下署長過去四期有沒有這種狀況就是我們的前瞻的預算都還沒審查完我們就已經有這個公告核定然後只是等經費下來再撥補下去我說明一下好了\n\n9\n00:03:24,682 --> 00:03:52,455\n次期的過去的前瞻有凍結但是都是書面報告而且我們都在1月份就直接提解凍書面書面只要送過來就解決了那現在為什麼不提呢現在第一個這是專案報告第二個就是說就像剛剛部長所提到的因為院還有這一個部分但是前瞻是完全沒有提啊前瞻是在立法院完全沒有排案\n\n10\n00:03:54,648 --> 00:03:59,952\n不是總預算好那這個部分的話只要立法院有排案的話你們就可以馬上來處理嗎預算沒有三讀前瞻預算沒有三讀對那以往前四期我知道有遇到這樣的一個狀況沒有這個問題沒有他只有那所以前瞻預算沒有三讀就我們馬上排案的話就馬上可以來處理是這樣嗎\n\n11\n00:04:14,915 --> 00:04:42,603\n那就要看大院的這個部分那針對這個部分的話我想請教一下就是說因為其實提升道路品質的計畫今年就要屆滿嘛那地方公所人家有改善這個道路品質的需求那所以請問一下這個時候115年的預算正在進行籌編能不能有新的計畫繼續推動沒有因為前瞻就到今年就結束了但是前瞻結束之後未來的這些道路品質改善計畫這些的\n\n12\n00:04:44,763 --> 00:05:06,139\n這相關的工程那應該是要有什麼樣子的一個方式能夠持續來進行因為它原來就是特別預算在公務預算的原來的編列裡面這個本來都是屬於地方的權責我剛剛講的是115年現在在編列預算嘛那所以你們是不是有應該要提出這樣相關的預算我說明一下就是原來在公務預算的認定裡面\n\n13\n00:05:07,372 --> 00:05:15,698\n提升道路品質也就是道路的重新跑鋪是屬於地方的全責如果沒有特別預算的話公務預算在過去在編列的時候他是不同意的\n\n14\n00:05:16,403 --> 00:05:46,052\n那所以你現在的意思就是說只要地方的預算不足的話你們還是可以編列公務預算來去做這樣子的沒有就是公務預算裡面因為這是屬於地方的權責所以這個部分在公務預算裡面也就是說現在我們的財化法通過之後那當地方有經費的時候就可以用這筆錢來去做那也是地方政府要自行自行那就是說現在找到這個今年結束之後有關的品質感應計畫就跟國土署沒有關係了是嗎不是是因為我們就沒有就不會再編列了\n\n15\n00:05:46,332 --> 00:06:08,100\n對那如果有需要編列你們會不會編列有需要也是要院這邊因為主計單主計處的就是有需要你們應該也要提出請主計處這邊看是不是能夠整個預算的通盤檢討嘛是這樣嗎不過因為現在遇到財化法也遇到這樣的問題那就是事權分工的問題嘛大家可以來好好的討論一下要重新再討論\n\n16\n00:06:08,900 --> 00:06:30,390\n那另外這個想請教一下部長就是你最近全台跑透透參加這個人民事頭家的活動那因為您發言的內容其中參雜的一些我們可以先看一下影片那個聲音好嗎\n\n17\n00:06:37,287 --> 00:06:39,308\n可以暫停一下嗎沒有聲音\n\n18\n00:06:52,617 --> 00:06:55,980\n這個聲音可以弄出來嗎\n\n19\n00:07:17,029 --> 00:07:30,425\n早上有事故早上有事故\n\n20\n00:07:36,872 --> 00:07:52,430\n好部長您在這個影片當中提到的就是說我們砍了200億的這個預算喔導致75萬的出戶族領不到補貼喔請問一下我們有哪一個提案砍掉內政部200\n\n21\n00:07:53,771 --> 00:08:11,623\n報告委員我對於裡面講說公然造謠說謊是完全否認的我跟委員再重新講一次你給我一分鐘的時間第一個我們在今年有送到行政院所謂的300億中央擴大租金補貼住宅補助等這些部分送到行政院要求行政院給我們撥補總數總數是400億\n\n22\n00:08:15,245 --> 00:08:29,634\n的相關的部分那但是呢在住宅基金裡面呢有一項就是如果他要新撥補200億的話需要行政院的中央政府總預算通過才能撥補給我們那這個部分呢在行政院包括我們的院長\n\n23\n00:08:30,475 --> 00:08:49,095\n他在同樣多次的這個演講裡面也提到這裡面有一個總預算可不可以比去年多中央政府總預算增加2806億的時候有一個擴大租金補貼的新建設宅就是200億我現在所指的這個部分但是呢因為有一些委員請問是國民黨還是民眾黨把他砍掉了嗎\n\n24\n00:08:51,798 --> 00:08:59,280\n我們在那個最後在立法院院會的時候是這樣子舉手通過的行政院的114年度的總預算您再給我一點時間然後再來就是很多人把我們自己在國土署裡面的部分引用的是台灣民眾黨的那個10%然後3%變成41.4億所以兩個黨團裡面所說的部分是指國土署的那個部分\n\n25\n00:09:19,165 --> 00:09:35,109\n跟我所說的這個200億的這個租金補貼是屬於新要放到我們的內政部裡面來做的住宅基金是不一樣的所以呢我不清楚說為什麼有一些委員呢沒有清除這所有所講的狀況之下然後說我是不忍罩人跟說我不能夠承認這個部分就是會影響75萬租戶是\n\n26\n00:09:41,537 --> 00:09:53,004\n報告委員原來在上一年度的時候我們的租金補貼是50萬戶但是我們後來在跟行政院要求的時候就是我們的預估可能會達到75萬戶所以現在所說的200億是從這個75萬戶裡面的比例在往前推的好那請問一下國土府那邊我們針對剛剛講的這個400億中凍結10%的這個41億的會凍結41億的部分會讓75萬人全數拿不到租金補助嗎\n\n27\n00:10:10,538 --> 00:10:39,185\n我說如果這算法上就是說因為我們現在變成說每一個月每一個月至少要31億到36億之間的數字所以最有可能就是到11月就完全不夠了所以說到11月嘛是嗎因為你租金補貼是每個月發放的所以到11月也就是說11月之前你只要提出解凍案就應該沒有這個問題吧也不會讓75萬租戶拿不到吧\n\n28\n00:10:40,666 --> 00:10:55,295\n對因為他變成說因為現在還有一個中央政府總預算的這個統三的600多億還沒有確認所以我們現在變成到底他最後能不能給我們這個我們也不知道請問一下這個414億的部分我們這個案子是凍結10%沒錯吧是\n\n29\n00:10:57,677 --> 00:11:18,318\n對那所以剛剛你也提到嘛到11月之後可能才會影響影響到12月份的部分那是按照如果說其他都沒有沒有改變的話就是照這個方式對那是不是只要你盡快的提出這個案子的解凍案送到我們這個我們這個委員會來提出解凍的申請我相信我們的招委一定會盡快的排案這個第一個是\n\n30\n00:11:19,521 --> 00:11:43,646\n對程序問題就政院要跟立委這邊立委院要交辦那所以是行政院的問題囉也不是就是我們剛剛回到剛剛那一個基本的問題因為還沒有辦法自愛難省通案的部分剛剛你們提到630幾億的這個通案我們覺得可以先跳過但是非通案的部分其實就可以先提出報告啦非通案的部分咧\n\n31\n00:11:44,386 --> 00:12:03,136\n通刪的部分303億行政院都通刪了但是以這個案子來說我們就凍結百分之十立法院要求就是說有多的636億要行政院自己回去要看你要刪哪裡凍哪裡但是目前為止我們並沒有這樣的一個定案非常致案難行沒有任何一個提出來致案難行的地方大家共同來討論我們也提出來了嘛就是說有什麼致案難行的地方就提到立法院來大家共同來找出解方嘛而不是現在擺爛你知道嗎\n\n32\n00:12:13,301 --> 00:12:30,190\n報告徐委員在行政院提出復議案的時候已經把治癌難行跟違憲還有違預算法的部分都已經寫清楚了但是因為表決之後我們還是行政院沒有報通過立法院的這個其實以這個案子啦其實我知道郭平淑每一步都已經在抱怨了其實這個案子早就已經把解凍的報告寫好只是因為長官請問我們希望說自來水龍頭打上自來水龍頭大廈趕快為了人民為民生為主\n\n33\n00:12:39,315 --> 00:12:59,608\n因為部長我覺得我們還是要以民生為主啦希望這個部分趕快的來去處理能夠解凍就趕快提出來我們的召委都已經提前來做這樣的專案報告就是希望節省時間所以只要我們提出來我們就是要拜託行政院是不是能夠行政院是不是能夠提出來的提出好嗎對那是不是請行政院能夠提出好嗎好謝謝好謝謝徐益臻委員我再次跟委員會報告說明啦就其實當然我們理解啦就是說因為你有一個通商的壓力在那個地方\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9080\t14384\t謝謝主席 我們請內政部劉世芳部長跟國土署伍興修署長劉部長 吳署長有請委員好部長好我想請教部長就是目前國土署在辦理道路改善有三項計畫正在進行那目前國土署執行情況也良好而且地方鄉鎮市公所也都給予高度的評價\n34116\t52081\t那現在還有幾個問題要請教部長跟署長就是關於經費補助的問題因為114年的總預算總統已經公佈了那立法院針對地方補助經費沒有三減也沒有凍結那為什麼現在補助的經費遲遲無法撥付給地方政府\n53106\t55969\t報告委員是這樣子就是說在我們3月21的時候呢是確實是總統有公布所謂的114年的這個相關的預算但是這裡面有一項我所瞭解就是說至暗難行的部分在於說原來啊\n71648\t90111\t一共有通山303億的部分我們已經處理好但是有一個就是行政院立法院要求行政院去自行去解決什麼叫山洞的部分有600多億那600多億的這個預算呢目前行政院跟立法院好像還沒有溝通好所以我們對最像是有疑慮的但是我現在的問題是說我們對於地方政府的補助經費也沒有刪減也沒有凍結那為什麼這個部分沒有辦法\n100033\t113643\t報告委員按照預算在執行的過程當中如果你已經是過去在長久執行的預算正在執行當中的話呢在我們的預算的這個撥補方面比較沒有問題但是如果是新增預算的話就會有這個問題\n119605\t149068\t有些是業務費的部分也是被凍掉那是不是可以請市長說明一下好了因為如果說是執行中的案子啦就是生活圈跟這個永續的部分執行中的案子大概都沒有問題那這是新增的提案的部分就是新增提案的部分那就是因為這個院還沒有做最後的確認的話我們也不確定但是我們審查還是維持有審查那也就是說不是新增的部分你們應該經費都要撥下去了是嗎\n149758\t175746\t就是執行中的部分比較沒有問題執行中的唯有問題是那所以你現在提的是指說還有286案還待核定的這些案件嗎我說明一下前瞻的部分就完全沒有辦法因為前瞻沒有通過前瞻沒有通過所以前瞻的部分是完全我想請一下署長就是說前四次這是第五期嘛前四次四期的這個前瞻計畫你們也常常是遇到先核定\n176346\t203822\t之後然後經費才通過才撥補下去的有這種狀況吧我說明一下好了因為如果說現在前瞻是因為這一期完全沒有到目前完全沒有通過所以我們審查完以後也有核定但是我們就現在告訴他因為預算完全請問一下署長過去四期有沒有這種狀況就是我們的前瞻的預算都還沒審查完我們就已經有這個公告核定然後只是等經費下來再撥補下去我說明一下好了\n204682\t232455\t次期的過去的前瞻有凍結但是都是書面報告而且我們都在1月份就直接提解凍書面書面只要送過來就解決了那現在為什麼不提呢現在第一個這是專案報告第二個就是說就像剛剛部長所提到的因為院還有這一個部分但是前瞻是完全沒有提啊前瞻是在立法院完全沒有排案\n234648\t239952\t不是總預算好那這個部分的話只要立法院有排案的話你們就可以馬上來處理嗎預算沒有三讀前瞻預算沒有三讀對那以往前四期我知道有遇到這樣的一個狀況沒有這個問題沒有他只有那所以前瞻預算沒有三讀就我們馬上排案的話就馬上可以來處理是這樣嗎\n254915\t282603\t那就要看大院的這個部分那針對這個部分的話我想請教一下就是說因為其實提升道路品質的計畫今年就要屆滿嘛那地方公所人家有改善這個道路品質的需求那所以請問一下這個時候115年的預算正在進行籌編能不能有新的計畫繼續推動沒有因為前瞻就到今年就結束了但是前瞻結束之後未來的這些道路品質改善計畫這些的\n284763\t306139\t這相關的工程那應該是要有什麼樣子的一個方式能夠持續來進行因為它原來就是特別預算在公務預算的原來的編列裡面這個本來都是屬於地方的權責我剛剛講的是115年現在在編列預算嘛那所以你們是不是有應該要提出這樣相關的預算我說明一下就是原來在公務預算的認定裡面\n307372\t315698\t提升道路品質也就是道路的重新跑鋪是屬於地方的全責如果沒有特別預算的話公務預算在過去在編列的時候他是不同意的\n316403\t346052\t那所以你現在的意思就是說只要地方的預算不足的話你們還是可以編列公務預算來去做這樣子的沒有就是公務預算裡面因為這是屬於地方的權責所以這個部分在公務預算裡面也就是說現在我們的財化法通過之後那當地方有經費的時候就可以用這筆錢來去做那也是地方政府要自行自行那就是說現在找到這個今年結束之後有關的品質感應計畫就跟國土署沒有關係了是嗎不是是因為我們就沒有就不會再編列了\n346332\t368100\t對 那如果有需要編列你們會不會編列有需要也是要院這邊 因為主計單 主計處的就是有需要你們應該也要提出請主計處這邊看是不是能夠整個預算的通盤檢討嘛 是這樣嗎不過因為現在遇到財化法也遇到這樣的問題那就是事權分工的問題嘛 大家可以來好好的討論一下要重新再討論\n368900\t390390\t那另外這個想請教一下部長就是你最近全台跑透透參加這個人民事頭家的活動那因為您發言的內容其中參雜的一些我們可以先看一下影片那個聲音好嗎\n397287\t399308\t可以暫停一下嗎沒有聲音\n412617\t415980\t這個聲音可以弄出來嗎\n437029\t450425\t早上有事故早上有事故\n456872\t472430\t好部長您在這個影片當中提到的就是說我們砍了200億的這個預算喔導致75萬的出戶族領不到補貼喔請問一下我們有哪一個提案砍掉內政部200\n473771\t491623\t報告委員我對於裡面講說公然造謠說謊是完全否認的我跟委員再重新講一次你給我一分鐘的時間第一個我們在今年有送到行政院所謂的300億中央擴大租金補貼住宅補助等這些部分送到行政院要求行政院給我們撥補總數總數是400億\n495245\t509634\t的相關的部分那但是呢在住宅基金裡面呢有一項就是如果他要新撥補200億的話需要行政院的中央政府總預算通過才能撥補給我們那這個部分呢在行政院包括我們的院長\n510475\t529095\t他在同樣多次的這個演講裡面也提到這裡面有一個總預算可不可以比去年多中央政府總預算增加2806億的時候有一個擴大租金補貼的新建設宅就是200億我現在所指的這個部分但是呢因為有一些委員 請問是國民黨還是民眾黨把他砍掉了嗎\n531798\t539280\t我們在那個最後在立法院院會的時候是這樣子舉手通過的行政院的114年度的總預算您再給我一點時間然後再來就是很多人把我們自己在國土署裡面的部分引用的是台灣民眾黨的那個10%然後3%變成41.4億所以兩個黨團裡面所說的部分是指國土署的那個部分\n559165\t575109\t跟我所說的這個200億的這個租金補貼是屬於新要放到我們的內政部裡面來做的住宅基金是不一樣的所以呢我不清楚說為什麼有一些委員呢沒有清除這所有所講的狀況之下然後說我是不忍罩人跟說我不能夠承認這個部分就是會影響75萬租戶是\n581537\t593004\t報告委員原來在上一年度的時候我們的租金補貼是50萬戶但是我們後來在跟行政院要求的時候就是我們的預估可能會達到75萬戶所以現在所說的200億是從這個75萬戶裡面的比例在往前推的好那請問一下國土府那邊我們針對剛剛講的這個400億中凍結10%的這個41億的會凍結41億的部分會讓75萬人全數拿不到租金補助嗎\n610538\t639185\t我說如果這算法上就是說因為我們現在變成說每一個月每一個月至少要31億到36億之間的數字所以最有可能就是到11月就完全不夠了所以說到11月嘛是嗎因為你租金補貼是每個月發放的所以到11月也就是說11月之前你只要提出解凍案就應該沒有這個問題吧也不會讓75萬租戶拿不到吧\n640666\t655295\t對因為他變成說因為現在還有一個中央政府總預算的這個統三的600多億還沒有確認所以我們現在變成到底他最後能不能給我們這個我們也不知道請問一下這個414億的部分我們這個案子是凍結10%沒錯吧是\n657677\t678318\t對那所以剛剛你也提到嘛到11月之後可能才會影響影響到12月份的部分那是按照如果說其他都沒有沒有改變的話就是照這個方式對那是不是只要你盡快的提出這個案子的解凍案送到我們這個我們這個委員會來提出解凍的申請我相信我們的招委一定會盡快的排案這個第一個是\n679521\t703646\t對 程序問題就政院要跟立委這邊 立委院要交辦那所以是行政院的問題囉也不是 就是我們剛剛回到剛剛那一個基本的問題因為還沒有辦法自愛難省通案的部分 剛剛你們提到630幾億的這個通案我們覺得可以先跳過 但是非通案的部分其實就可以先提出報告啦非通案的部分咧\n704386\t723136\t通刪的部分303億行政院都通刪了但是以這個案子來說我們就凍結百分之十立法院要求就是說有多的636億要行政院自己回去要看你要刪哪裡凍哪裡但是目前為止我們並沒有這樣的一個定案非常致案難行沒有任何一個提出來致案難行的地方大家共同來討論我們也提出來了嘛就是說有什麼致案難行的地方就提到立法院來大家共同來找出解方嘛而不是現在擺爛你知道嗎\n733301\t750190\t報告徐委員在行政院提出復議案的時候已經把治癌難行跟違憲還有違預算法的部分都已經寫清楚了但是因為表決之後我們還是行政院沒有報通過立法院的這個其實以這個案子啦其實我知道郭平淑每一步都已經在抱怨了其實這個案子早就已經把解凍的報告寫好只是因為長官請問我們希望說自來水龍頭打上自來水龍頭大廈趕快為了人民為民生為主\n759315\t779608\t因為部長我覺得我們還是要以民生為主啦希望這個部分趕快的來去處理能夠解凍就趕快提出來我們的召委都已經提前來做這樣的專案報告就是希望節省時間所以只要我們提出來我們就是要拜託行政院是不是能夠行政院是不是能夠提出來的提出好嗎對 那是不是請行政院能夠提出好嗎好 謝謝好 謝謝徐益臻委員我再次跟委員會報告說明啦就其實當然我們理解啦就是說因為你有一個通商的壓力在那個地方\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們請內政部劉世芳部長跟國土署伍興修署長劉部長 吳署長有請委員好部長好我想請教部長就是目前國土署在辦理道路改善有三項計畫正在進行那目前國土署執行情況也良好而且地方鄉鎮市公所也都給予高度的評價\n那現在還有幾個問題要請教部長跟署長就是關於經費補助的問題因為114年的總預算總統已經公佈了那立法院針對地方補助經費沒有三減也沒有凍結那為什麼現在補助的經費遲遲無法撥付給地方政府\n報告委員是這樣子就是說在我們3月21的時候呢是確實是總統有公布所謂的114年的這個相關的預算但是這裡面有一項我所瞭解就是說至暗難行的部分在於說原來啊\n一共有通山303億的部分我們已經處理好但是有一個就是行政院立法院要求行政院去自行去解決什麼叫山洞的部分有600多億那600多億的這個預算呢目前行政院跟立法院好像還沒有溝通好所以我們對最像是有疑慮的但是我現在的問題是說我們對於地方政府的補助經費也沒有刪減也沒有凍結那為什麼這個部分沒有辦法\n報告委員按照預算在執行的過程當中如果你已經是過去在長久執行的預算正在執行當中的話呢在我們的預算的這個撥補方面比較沒有問題但是如果是新增預算的話就會有這個問題\n有些是業務費的部分也是被凍掉那是不是可以請市長說明一下好了因為如果說是執行中的案子啦就是生活圈跟這個永續的部分執行中的案子大概都沒有問題那這是新增的提案的部分就是新增提案的部分那就是因為這個院還沒有做最後的確認的話我們也不確定但是我們審查還是維持有審查那也就是說不是新增的部分你們應該經費都要撥下去了是嗎\n就是執行中的部分比較沒有問題執行中的唯有問題是那所以你現在提的是指說還有286案還待核定的這些案件嗎我說明一下前瞻的部分就完全沒有辦法因為前瞻沒有通過前瞻沒有通過所以前瞻的部分是完全我想請一下署長就是說前四次這是第五期嘛前四次四期的這個前瞻計畫你們也常常是遇到先核定\n之後然後經費才通過才撥補下去的有這種狀況吧我說明一下好了因為如果說現在前瞻是因為這一期完全沒有到目前完全沒有通過所以我們審查完以後也有核定但是我們就現在告訴他因為預算完全請問一下署長過去四期有沒有這種狀況就是我們的前瞻的預算都還沒審查完我們就已經有這個公告核定然後只是等經費下來再撥補下去我說明一下好了\n次期的過去的前瞻有凍結但是都是書面報告而且我們都在1月份就直接提解凍書面書面只要送過來就解決了那現在為什麼不提呢現在第一個這是專案報告第二個就是說就像剛剛部長所提到的因為院還有這一個部分但是前瞻是完全沒有提啊前瞻是在立法院完全沒有排案\n不是總預算好那這個部分的話只要立法院有排案的話你們就可以馬上來處理嗎預算沒有三讀前瞻預算沒有三讀對那以往前四期我知道有遇到這樣的一個狀況沒有這個問題沒有他只有那所以前瞻預算沒有三讀就我們馬上排案的話就馬上可以來處理是這樣嗎\n那就要看大院的這個部分那針對這個部分的話我想請教一下就是說因為其實提升道路品質的計畫今年就要屆滿嘛那地方公所人家有改善這個道路品質的需求那所以請問一下這個時候115年的預算正在進行籌編能不能有新的計畫繼續推動沒有因為前瞻就到今年就結束了但是前瞻結束之後未來的這些道路品質改善計畫這些的\n這相關的工程那應該是要有什麼樣子的一個方式能夠持續來進行因為它原來就是特別預算在公務預算的原來的編列裡面這個本來都是屬於地方的權責我剛剛講的是115年現在在編列預算嘛那所以你們是不是有應該要提出這樣相關的預算我說明一下就是原來在公務預算的認定裡面\n提升道路品質也就是道路的重新跑鋪是屬於地方的全責如果沒有特別預算的話公務預算在過去在編列的時候他是不同意的\n那所以你現在的意思就是說只要地方的預算不足的話你們還是可以編列公務預算來去做這樣子的沒有就是公務預算裡面因為這是屬於地方的權責所以這個部分在公務預算裡面也就是說現在我們的財化法通過之後那當地方有經費的時候就可以用這筆錢來去做那也是地方政府要自行自行那就是說現在找到這個今年結束之後有關的品質感應計畫就跟國土署沒有關係了是嗎不是是因為我們就沒有就不會再編列了\n對 那如果有需要編列你們會不會編列有需要也是要院這邊 因為主計單 主計處的就是有需要你們應該也要提出請主計處這邊看是不是能夠整個預算的通盤檢討嘛 是這樣嗎不過因為現在遇到財化法也遇到這樣的問題那就是事權分工的問題嘛 大家可以來好好的討論一下要重新再討論\n那另外這個想請教一下部長就是你最近全台跑透透參加這個人民事頭家的活動那因為您發言的內容其中參雜的一些我們可以先看一下影片那個聲音好嗎\n可以暫停一下嗎沒有聲音\n這個聲音可以弄出來嗎\n早上有事故早上有事故\n好部長您在這個影片當中提到的就是說我們砍了200億的這個預算喔導致75萬的出戶族領不到補貼喔請問一下我們有哪一個提案砍掉內政部200\n報告委員我對於裡面講說公然造謠說謊是完全否認的我跟委員再重新講一次你給我一分鐘的時間第一個我們在今年有送到行政院所謂的300億中央擴大租金補貼住宅補助等這些部分送到行政院要求行政院給我們撥補總數總數是400億\n的相關的部分那但是呢在住宅基金裡面呢有一項就是如果他要新撥補200億的話需要行政院的中央政府總預算通過才能撥補給我們那這個部分呢在行政院包括我們的院長\n他在同樣多次的這個演講裡面也提到這裡面有一個總預算可不可以比去年多中央政府總預算增加2806億的時候有一個擴大租金補貼的新建設宅就是200億我現在所指的這個部分但是呢因為有一些委員 請問是國民黨還是民眾黨把他砍掉了嗎\n我們在那個最後在立法院院會的時候是這樣子舉手通過的行政院的114年度的總預算您再給我一點時間然後再來就是很多人把我們自己在國土署裡面的部分引用的是台灣民眾黨的那個10%然後3%變成41.4億所以兩個黨團裡面所說的部分是指國土署的那個部分\n跟我所說的這個200億的這個租金補貼是屬於新要放到我們的內政部裡面來做的住宅基金是不一樣的所以呢我不清楚說為什麼有一些委員呢沒有清除這所有所講的狀況之下然後說我是不忍罩人跟說我不能夠承認這個部分就是會影響75萬租戶是\n報告委員原來在上一年度的時候我們的租金補貼是50萬戶但是我們後來在跟行政院要求的時候就是我們的預估可能會達到75萬戶所以現在所說的200億是從這個75萬戶裡面的比例在往前推的好那請問一下國土府那邊我們針對剛剛講的這個400億中凍結10%的這個41億的會凍結41億的部分會讓75萬人全數拿不到租金補助嗎\n我說如果這算法上就是說因為我們現在變成說每一個月每一個月至少要31億到36億之間的數字所以最有可能就是到11月就完全不夠了所以說到11月嘛是嗎因為你租金補貼是每個月發放的所以到11月也就是說11月之前你只要提出解凍案就應該沒有這個問題吧也不會讓75萬租戶拿不到吧\n對因為他變成說因為現在還有一個中央政府總預算的這個統三的600多億還沒有確認所以我們現在變成到底他最後能不能給我們這個我們也不知道請問一下這個414億的部分我們這個案子是凍結10%沒錯吧是\n對那所以剛剛你也提到嘛到11月之後可能才會影響影響到12月份的部分那是按照如果說其他都沒有沒有改變的話就是照這個方式對那是不是只要你盡快的提出這個案子的解凍案送到我們這個我們這個委員會來提出解凍的申請我相信我們的招委一定會盡快的排案這個第一個是\n對 程序問題就政院要跟立委這邊 立委院要交辦那所以是行政院的問題囉也不是 就是我們剛剛回到剛剛那一個基本的問題因為還沒有辦法自愛難省通案的部分 剛剛你們提到630幾億的這個通案我們覺得可以先跳過 但是非通案的部分其實就可以先提出報告啦非通案的部分咧\n通刪的部分303億行政院都通刪了但是以這個案子來說我們就凍結百分之十立法院要求就是說有多的636億要行政院自己回去要看你要刪哪裡凍哪裡但是目前為止我們並沒有這樣的一個定案非常致案難行沒有任何一個提出來致案難行的地方大家共同來討論我們也提出來了嘛就是說有什麼致案難行的地方就提到立法院來大家共同來找出解方嘛而不是現在擺爛你知道嗎\n報告徐委員在行政院提出復議案的時候已經把治癌難行跟違憲還有違預算法的部分都已經寫清楚了但是因為表決之後我們還是行政院沒有報通過立法院的這個其實以這個案子啦其實我知道郭平淑每一步都已經在抱怨了其實這個案子早就已經把解凍的報告寫好只是因為長官請問我們希望說自來水龍頭打上自來水龍頭大廈趕快為了人民為民生為主\n因為部長我覺得我們還是要以民生為主啦希望這個部分趕快的來去處理能夠解凍就趕快提出來我們的召委都已經提前來做這樣的專案報告就是希望節省時間所以只要我們提出來我們就是要拜託行政院是不是能夠行政院是不是能夠提出來的提出好嗎對 那是不是請行政院能夠提出好嗎好 謝謝好 謝謝徐益臻委員我再次跟委員會報告說明啦就其實當然我們理解啦就是說因為你有一個通商的壓力在那個地方\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.080 --> 00:14.384\n謝謝主席我們請內政部劉世芳部長跟國土署伍興修署長劉部長吳署長有請委員好部長好我想請教部長就是目前國土署在辦理道路改善有三項計畫正在進行那目前國土署執行情況也良好而且地方鄉鎮市公所也都給予高度的評價\n\n00:34.116 --> 00:52.081\n那現在還有幾個問題要請教部長跟署長就是關於經費補助的問題因為114年的總預算總統已經公佈了那立法院針對地方補助經費沒有三減也沒有凍結那為什麼現在補助的經費遲遲無法撥付給地方政府\n\n00:53.106 --> 00:55.969\n報告委員是這樣子就是說在我們3月21的時候呢是確實是總統有公布所謂的114年的這個相關的預算但是這裡面有一項我所瞭解就是說至暗難行的部分在於說原來啊\n\n01:11.648 --> 01:30.111\n一共有通山303億的部分我們已經處理好但是有一個就是行政院立法院要求行政院去自行去解決什麼叫山洞的部分有600多億那600多億的這個預算呢目前行政院跟立法院好像還沒有溝通好所以我們對最像是有疑慮的但是我現在的問題是說我們對於地方政府的補助經費也沒有刪減也沒有凍結那為什麼這個部分沒有辦法\n\n01:40.033 --> 01:53.643\n報告委員按照預算在執行的過程當中如果你已經是過去在長久執行的預算正在執行當中的話呢在我們的預算的這個撥補方面比較沒有問題但是如果是新增預算的話就會有這個問題\n\n01:59.605 --> 02:29.068\n有些是業務費的部分也是被凍掉那是不是可以請市長說明一下好了因為如果說是執行中的案子啦就是生活圈跟這個永續的部分執行中的案子大概都沒有問題那這是新增的提案的部分就是新增提案的部分那就是因為這個院還沒有做最後的確認的話我們也不確定但是我們審查還是維持有審查那也就是說不是新增的部分你們應該經費都要撥下去了是嗎\n\n02:29.758 --> 02:55.746\n就是執行中的部分比較沒有問題執行中的唯有問題是那所以你現在提的是指說還有286案還待核定的這些案件嗎我說明一下前瞻的部分就完全沒有辦法因為前瞻沒有通過前瞻沒有通過所以前瞻的部分是完全我想請一下署長就是說前四次這是第五期嘛前四次四期的這個前瞻計畫你們也常常是遇到先核定\n\n02:56.346 --> 03:23.822\n之後然後經費才通過才撥補下去的有這種狀況吧我說明一下好了因為如果說現在前瞻是因為這一期完全沒有到目前完全沒有通過所以我們審查完以後也有核定但是我們就現在告訴他因為預算完全請問一下署長過去四期有沒有這種狀況就是我們的前瞻的預算都還沒審查完我們就已經有這個公告核定然後只是等經費下來再撥補下去我說明一下好了\n\n03:24.682 --> 03:52.455\n次期的過去的前瞻有凍結但是都是書面報告而且我們都在1月份就直接提解凍書面書面只要送過來就解決了那現在為什麼不提呢現在第一個這是專案報告第二個就是說就像剛剛部長所提到的因為院還有這一個部分但是前瞻是完全沒有提啊前瞻是在立法院完全沒有排案\n\n03:54.648 --> 03:59.952\n不是總預算好那這個部分的話只要立法院有排案的話你們就可以馬上來處理嗎預算沒有三讀前瞻預算沒有三讀對那以往前四期我知道有遇到這樣的一個狀況沒有這個問題沒有他只有那所以前瞻預算沒有三讀就我們馬上排案的話就馬上可以來處理是這樣嗎\n\n04:14.915 --> 04:42.603\n那就要看大院的這個部分那針對這個部分的話我想請教一下就是說因為其實提升道路品質的計畫今年就要屆滿嘛那地方公所人家有改善這個道路品質的需求那所以請問一下這個時候115年的預算正在進行籌編能不能有新的計畫繼續推動沒有因為前瞻就到今年就結束了但是前瞻結束之後未來的這些道路品質改善計畫這些的\n\n04:44.763 --> 05:06.139\n這相關的工程那應該是要有什麼樣子的一個方式能夠持續來進行因為它原來就是特別預算在公務預算的原來的編列裡面這個本來都是屬於地方的權責我剛剛講的是115年現在在編列預算嘛那所以你們是不是有應該要提出這樣相關的預算我說明一下就是原來在公務預算的認定裡面\n\n05:07.372 --> 05:15.698\n提升道路品質也就是道路的重新跑鋪是屬於地方的全責如果沒有特別預算的話公務預算在過去在編列的時候他是不同意的\n\n05:16.403 --> 05:46.052\n那所以你現在的意思就是說只要地方的預算不足的話你們還是可以編列公務預算來去做這樣子的沒有就是公務預算裡面因為這是屬於地方的權責所以這個部分在公務預算裡面也就是說現在我們的財化法通過之後那當地方有經費的時候就可以用這筆錢來去做那也是地方政府要自行自行那就是說現在找到這個今年結束之後有關的品質感應計畫就跟國土署沒有關係了是嗎不是是因為我們就沒有就不會再編列了\n\n05:46.332 --> 06:08.100\n對那如果有需要編列你們會不會編列有需要也是要院這邊因為主計單主計處的就是有需要你們應該也要提出請主計處這邊看是不是能夠整個預算的通盤檢討嘛是這樣嗎不過因為現在遇到財化法也遇到這樣的問題那就是事權分工的問題嘛大家可以來好好的討論一下要重新再討論\n\n06:08.900 --> 06:30.390\n那另外這個想請教一下部長就是你最近全台跑透透參加這個人民事頭家的活動那因為您發言的內容其中參雜的一些我們可以先看一下影片那個聲音好嗎\n\n06:37.287 --> 06:39.308\n可以暫停一下嗎沒有聲音\n\n06:52.617 --> 06:55.980\n這個聲音可以弄出來嗎\n\n07:17.029 --> 07:30.425\n早上有事故早上有事故\n\n07:36.872 --> 07:52.430\n好部長您在這個影片當中提到的就是說我們砍了200億的這個預算喔導致75萬的出戶族領不到補貼喔請問一下我們有哪一個提案砍掉內政部200\n\n07:53.771 --> 08:11.623\n報告委員我對於裡面講說公然造謠說謊是完全否認的我跟委員再重新講一次你給我一分鐘的時間第一個我們在今年有送到行政院所謂的300億中央擴大租金補貼住宅補助等這些部分送到行政院要求行政院給我們撥補總數總數是400億\n\n08:15.245 --> 08:29.634\n的相關的部分那但是呢在住宅基金裡面呢有一項就是如果他要新撥補200億的話需要行政院的中央政府總預算通過才能撥補給我們那這個部分呢在行政院包括我們的院長\n\n08:30.475 --> 08:49.095\n他在同樣多次的這個演講裡面也提到這裡面有一個總預算可不可以比去年多中央政府總預算增加2806億的時候有一個擴大租金補貼的新建設宅就是200億我現在所指的這個部分但是呢因為有一些委員請問是國民黨還是民眾黨把他砍掉了嗎\n\n08:51.798 --> 08:59.280\n我們在那個最後在立法院院會的時候是這樣子舉手通過的行政院的114年度的總預算您再給我一點時間然後再來就是很多人把我們自己在國土署裡面的部分引用的是台灣民眾黨的那個10%然後3%變成41.4億所以兩個黨團裡面所說的部分是指國土署的那個部分\n\n09:19.165 --> 09:35.109\n跟我所說的這個200億的這個租金補貼是屬於新要放到我們的內政部裡面來做的住宅基金是不一樣的所以呢我不清楚說為什麼有一些委員呢沒有清除這所有所講的狀況之下然後說我是不忍罩人跟說我不能夠承認這個部分就是會影響75萬租戶是\n\n09:41.537 --> 09:53.004\n報告委員原來在上一年度的時候我們的租金補貼是50萬戶但是我們後來在跟行政院要求的時候就是我們的預估可能會達到75萬戶所以現在所說的200億是從這個75萬戶裡面的比例在往前推的好那請問一下國土府那邊我們針對剛剛講的這個400億中凍結10%的這個41億的會凍結41億的部分會讓75萬人全數拿不到租金補助嗎\n\n10:10.538 --> 10:39.185\n我說如果這算法上就是說因為我們現在變成說每一個月每一個月至少要31億到36億之間的數字所以最有可能就是到11月就完全不夠了所以說到11月嘛是嗎因為你租金補貼是每個月發放的所以到11月也就是說11月之前你只要提出解凍案就應該沒有這個問題吧也不會讓75萬租戶拿不到吧\n\n10:40.666 --> 10:55.295\n對因為他變成說因為現在還有一個中央政府總預算的這個統三的600多億還沒有確認所以我們現在變成到底他最後能不能給我們這個我們也不知道請問一下這個414億的部分我們這個案子是凍結10%沒錯吧是\n\n10:57.677 --> 11:18.318\n對那所以剛剛你也提到嘛到11月之後可能才會影響影響到12月份的部分那是按照如果說其他都沒有沒有改變的話就是照這個方式對那是不是只要你盡快的提出這個案子的解凍案送到我們這個我們這個委員會來提出解凍的申請我相信我們的招委一定會盡快的排案這個第一個是\n\n11:19.521 --> 11:43.646\n對程序問題就政院要跟立委這邊立委院要交辦那所以是行政院的問題囉也不是就是我們剛剛回到剛剛那一個基本的問題因為還沒有辦法自愛難省通案的部分剛剛你們提到630幾億的這個通案我們覺得可以先跳過但是非通案的部分其實就可以先提出報告啦非通案的部分咧\n\n11:44.386 --> 12:03.136\n通刪的部分303億行政院都通刪了但是以這個案子來說我們就凍結百分之十立法院要求就是說有多的636億要行政院自己回去要看你要刪哪裡凍哪裡但是目前為止我們並沒有這樣的一個定案非常致案難行沒有任何一個提出來致案難行的地方大家共同來討論我們也提出來了嘛就是說有什麼致案難行的地方就提到立法院來大家共同來找出解方嘛而不是現在擺爛你知道嗎\n\n12:13.301 --> 12:30.190\n報告徐委員在行政院提出復議案的時候已經把治癌難行跟違憲還有違預算法的部分都已經寫清楚了但是因為表決之後我們還是行政院沒有報通過立法院的這個其實以這個案子啦其實我知道郭平淑每一步都已經在抱怨了其實這個案子早就已經把解凍的報告寫好只是因為長官請問我們希望說自來水龍頭打上自來水龍頭大廈趕快為了人民為民生為主\n\n12:39.315 --> 12:59.608\n因為部長我覺得我們還是要以民生為主啦希望這個部分趕快的來去處理能夠解凍就趕快提出來我們的召委都已經提前來做這樣的專案報告就是希望節省時間所以只要我們提出來我們就是要拜託行政院是不是能夠行政院是不是能夠提出來的提出好嗎對那是不是請行政院能夠提出好嗎好謝謝好謝謝徐益臻委員我再次跟委員會報告說明啦就其實當然我們理解啦就是說因為你有一個通商的壓力在那個地方\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.08,"end":14.384,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請內政部劉世芳部長跟國土署伍興修署長劉部長 吳署長有請委員好部長好我想請教部長就是目前國土署在辦理道路改善有三項計畫正在進行那目前國土署執行情況也良好而且地方鄉鎮市公所也都給予高度的評價"},{"start":34.116,"end":52.081,"text":"那現在還有幾個問題要請教部長跟署長就是關於經費補助的問題因為114年的總預算總統已經公佈了那立法院針對地方補助經費沒有三減也沒有凍結那為什麼現在補助的經費遲遲無法撥付給地方政府"},{"start":53.106,"end":55.969,"text":"報告委員是這樣子就是說在我們3月21的時候呢是確實是總統有公布所謂的114年的這個相關的預算但是這裡面有一項我所瞭解就是說至暗難行的部分在於說原來啊"},{"start":71.648,"end":90.111,"text":"一共有通山303億的部分我們已經處理好但是有一個就是行政院立法院要求行政院去自行去解決什麼叫山洞的部分有600多億那600多億的這個預算呢目前行政院跟立法院好像還沒有溝通好所以我們對最像是有疑慮的但是我現在的問題是說我們對於地方政府的補助經費也沒有刪減也沒有凍結那為什麼這個部分沒有辦法"},{"start":100.033,"end":113.643,"text":"報告委員按照預算在執行的過程當中如果你已經是過去在長久執行的預算正在執行當中的話呢在我們的預算的這個撥補方面比較沒有問題但是如果是新增預算的話就會有這個問題"},{"start":119.605,"end":149.068,"text":"有些是業務費的部分也是被凍掉那是不是可以請市長說明一下好了因為如果說是執行中的案子啦就是生活圈跟這個永續的部分執行中的案子大概都沒有問題那這是新增的提案的部分就是新增提案的部分那就是因為這個院還沒有做最後的確認的話我們也不確定但是我們審查還是維持有審查那也就是說不是新增的部分你們應該經費都要撥下去了是嗎"},{"start":149.758,"end":175.746,"text":"就是執行中的部分比較沒有問題執行中的唯有問題是那所以你現在提的是指說還有286案還待核定的這些案件嗎我說明一下前瞻的部分就完全沒有辦法因為前瞻沒有通過前瞻沒有通過所以前瞻的部分是完全我想請一下署長就是說前四次這是第五期嘛前四次四期的這個前瞻計畫你們也常常是遇到先核定"},{"start":176.346,"end":203.822,"text":"之後然後經費才通過才撥補下去的有這種狀況吧我說明一下好了因為如果說現在前瞻是因為這一期完全沒有到目前完全沒有通過所以我們審查完以後也有核定但是我們就現在告訴他因為預算完全請問一下署長過去四期有沒有這種狀況就是我們的前瞻的預算都還沒審查完我們就已經有這個公告核定然後只是等經費下來再撥補下去我說明一下好了"},{"start":204.682,"end":232.455,"text":"次期的過去的前瞻有凍結但是都是書面報告而且我們都在1月份就直接提解凍書面書面只要送過來就解決了那現在為什麼不提呢現在第一個這是專案報告第二個就是說就像剛剛部長所提到的因為院還有這一個部分但是前瞻是完全沒有提啊前瞻是在立法院完全沒有排案"},{"start":234.648,"end":239.952,"text":"不是總預算好那這個部分的話只要立法院有排案的話你們就可以馬上來處理嗎預算沒有三讀前瞻預算沒有三讀對那以往前四期我知道有遇到這樣的一個狀況沒有這個問題沒有他只有那所以前瞻預算沒有三讀就我們馬上排案的話就馬上可以來處理是這樣嗎"},{"start":254.915,"end":282.603,"text":"那就要看大院的這個部分那針對這個部分的話我想請教一下就是說因為其實提升道路品質的計畫今年就要屆滿嘛那地方公所人家有改善這個道路品質的需求那所以請問一下這個時候115年的預算正在進行籌編能不能有新的計畫繼續推動沒有因為前瞻就到今年就結束了但是前瞻結束之後未來的這些道路品質改善計畫這些的"},{"start":284.763,"end":306.139,"text":"這相關的工程那應該是要有什麼樣子的一個方式能夠持續來進行因為它原來就是特別預算在公務預算的原來的編列裡面這個本來都是屬於地方的權責我剛剛講的是115年現在在編列預算嘛那所以你們是不是有應該要提出這樣相關的預算我說明一下就是原來在公務預算的認定裡面"},{"start":307.372,"end":315.698,"text":"提升道路品質也就是道路的重新跑鋪是屬於地方的全責如果沒有特別預算的話公務預算在過去在編列的時候他是不同意的"},{"start":316.403,"end":346.052,"text":"那所以你現在的意思就是說只要地方的預算不足的話你們還是可以編列公務預算來去做這樣子的沒有就是公務預算裡面因為這是屬於地方的權責所以這個部分在公務預算裡面也就是說現在我們的財化法通過之後那當地方有經費的時候就可以用這筆錢來去做那也是地方政府要自行自行那就是說現在找到這個今年結束之後有關的品質感應計畫就跟國土署沒有關係了是嗎不是是因為我們就沒有就不會再編列了"},{"start":346.332,"end":368.1,"text":"對 那如果有需要編列你們會不會編列有需要也是要院這邊 因為主計單 主計處的就是有需要你們應該也要提出請主計處這邊看是不是能夠整個預算的通盤檢討嘛 是這樣嗎不過因為現在遇到財化法也遇到這樣的問題那就是事權分工的問題嘛 大家可以來好好的討論一下要重新再討論"},{"start":368.9,"end":390.39,"text":"那另外這個想請教一下部長就是你最近全台跑透透參加這個人民事頭家的活動那因為您發言的內容其中參雜的一些我們可以先看一下影片那個聲音好嗎"},{"start":397.287,"end":399.308,"text":"可以暫停一下嗎沒有聲音"},{"start":412.617,"end":415.98,"text":"這個聲音可以弄出來嗎"},{"start":437.029,"end":450.425,"text":"早上有事故早上有事故"},{"start":456.872,"end":472.43,"text":"好部長您在這個影片當中提到的就是說我們砍了200億的這個預算喔導致75萬的出戶族領不到補貼喔請問一下我們有哪一個提案砍掉內政部200"},{"start":473.771,"end":491.623,"text":"報告委員我對於裡面講說公然造謠說謊是完全否認的我跟委員再重新講一次你給我一分鐘的時間第一個我們在今年有送到行政院所謂的300億中央擴大租金補貼住宅補助等這些部分送到行政院要求行政院給我們撥補總數總數是400億"},{"start":495.245,"end":509.634,"text":"的相關的部分那但是呢在住宅基金裡面呢有一項就是如果他要新撥補200億的話需要行政院的中央政府總預算通過才能撥補給我們那這個部分呢在行政院包括我們的院長"},{"start":510.475,"end":529.095,"text":"他在同樣多次的這個演講裡面也提到這裡面有一個總預算可不可以比去年多中央政府總預算增加2806億的時候有一個擴大租金補貼的新建設宅就是200億我現在所指的這個部分但是呢因為有一些委員 請問是國民黨還是民眾黨把他砍掉了嗎"},{"start":531.798,"end":539.28,"text":"我們在那個最後在立法院院會的時候是這樣子舉手通過的行政院的114年度的總預算您再給我一點時間然後再來就是很多人把我們自己在國土署裡面的部分引用的是台灣民眾黨的那個10%然後3%變成41.4億所以兩個黨團裡面所說的部分是指國土署的那個部分"},{"start":559.165,"end":575.109,"text":"跟我所說的這個200億的這個租金補貼是屬於新要放到我們的內政部裡面來做的住宅基金是不一樣的所以呢我不清楚說為什麼有一些委員呢沒有清除這所有所講的狀況之下然後說我是不忍罩人跟說我不能夠承認這個部分就是會影響75萬租戶是"},{"start":581.537,"end":593.004,"text":"報告委員原來在上一年度的時候我們的租金補貼是50萬戶但是我們後來在跟行政院要求的時候就是我們的預估可能會達到75萬戶所以現在所說的200億是從這個75萬戶裡面的比例在往前推的好那請問一下國土府那邊我們針對剛剛講的這個400億中凍結10%的這個41億的會凍結41億的部分會讓75萬人全數拿不到租金補助嗎"},{"start":610.538,"end":639.185,"text":"我說如果這算法上就是說因為我們現在變成說每一個月每一個月至少要31億到36億之間的數字所以最有可能就是到11月就完全不夠了所以說到11月嘛是嗎因為你租金補貼是每個月發放的所以到11月也就是說11月之前你只要提出解凍案就應該沒有這個問題吧也不會讓75萬租戶拿不到吧"},{"start":640.666,"end":655.295,"text":"對因為他變成說因為現在還有一個中央政府總預算的這個統三的600多億還沒有確認所以我們現在變成到底他最後能不能給我們這個我們也不知道請問一下這個414億的部分我們這個案子是凍結10%沒錯吧是"},{"start":657.677,"end":678.318,"text":"對那所以剛剛你也提到嘛到11月之後可能才會影響影響到12月份的部分那是按照如果說其他都沒有沒有改變的話就是照這個方式對那是不是只要你盡快的提出這個案子的解凍案送到我們這個我們這個委員會來提出解凍的申請我相信我們的招委一定會盡快的排案這個第一個是"},{"start":679.521,"end":703.646,"text":"對 程序問題就政院要跟立委這邊 立委院要交辦那所以是行政院的問題囉也不是 就是我們剛剛回到剛剛那一個基本的問題因為還沒有辦法自愛難省通案的部分 剛剛你們提到630幾億的這個通案我們覺得可以先跳過 但是非通案的部分其實就可以先提出報告啦非通案的部分咧"},{"start":704.386,"end":723.136,"text":"通刪的部分303億行政院都通刪了但是以這個案子來說我們就凍結百分之十立法院要求就是說有多的636億要行政院自己回去要看你要刪哪裡凍哪裡但是目前為止我們並沒有這樣的一個定案非常致案難行沒有任何一個提出來致案難行的地方大家共同來討論我們也提出來了嘛就是說有什麼致案難行的地方就提到立法院來大家共同來找出解方嘛而不是現在擺爛你知道嗎"},{"start":733.301,"end":750.19,"text":"報告徐委員在行政院提出復議案的時候已經把治癌難行跟違憲還有違預算法的部分都已經寫清楚了但是因為表決之後我們還是行政院沒有報通過立法院的這個其實以這個案子啦其實我知道郭平淑每一步都已經在抱怨了其實這個案子早就已經把解凍的報告寫好只是因為長官請問我們希望說自來水龍頭打上自來水龍頭大廈趕快為了人民為民生為主"},{"start":759.315,"end":779.608,"text":"因為部長我覺得我們還是要以民生為主啦希望這個部分趕快的來去處理能夠解凍就趕快提出來我們的召委都已經提前來做這樣的專案報告就是希望節省時間所以只要我們提出來我們就是要拜託行政院是不是能夠行政院是不是能夠提出來的提出好嗎對 那是不是請行政院能夠提出好嗎好 謝謝好 謝謝徐益臻委員我再次跟委員會報告說明啦就其實當然我們理解啦就是說因為你有一個通商的壓力在那個地方"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":592,"blocks":[["許委員宇甄：（11時20分）謝謝主席，我們請內政部劉世芳部長跟國土署吳欣修署長。"],["主席：劉部長、吳署長有請。"],["劉部長世芳：委員好。"],["許委員宇甄：部長好。我想請教部長，國土署在辦理道路改善有三項計畫正在進行，目前國土署執行情況也良好，而且地方鄉鎮市公所也都給予高度的評價，現在還有幾個問題要請教部長跟署長，就是關於經費補助的問題，因為114年的總預算總統已經公布了，立法院針對地方補助經費沒有刪減也沒有凍結，為什麼現在補助的經費遲遲無法撥付給地方政府？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員是這樣子，在3月21的時候，確實是總統有公布114年相關的預算，但是這裡面有一項，我所瞭解窒礙難行的部分在於原來一共通刪303億的部分，我們已經處理好，但是有一個立法院要求行政院自行去解決什麼叫刪、凍的部分有六百多億，而六百多億的這筆預算，目前行政院跟立法院好像還沒有溝通好，所以我們對於這一項是有疑慮的。"],["許委員宇甄：部長，這個我知道，你說明過很多次了。但我現在的問題是，我們對於地方政府的補助經費沒有刪減也沒有凍結，為什麼這個部分沒有辦法？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，按照預算在執行的過程當中，如果是過去長久執行的預算正在執行當中，在我們預算的撥補方面比較沒有問題，但如果是新增……"],["許委員宇甄：這三項就是新的嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：新增預算就會有這個問題，也就是說……"],["許委員宇甄：可是這三項都是舊的吧？都是延續性的計畫啊！"],["劉部長世芳：有些是業務費的部分，也是被凍掉。"],["許委員宇甄：那是不是可以請署長說明一下？"],["吳署長欣修：我說明一下，如果是執行中的案子，就是生活圈跟永續的部分都是執行中的案子，大概都沒有問題。"],["許委員宇甄：對，提升道路品質也是嘛？"],["吳署長欣修：而新增提案的部分，因為院還沒有做最後確認的話，我們也不確定，但是我們還是維持有審查。"],["許委員宇甄：也就是說，不是新增的部分，你們經費應該都要撥下去了，是嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：就是執行中的部分比較沒有問題，執行中的唯一有問題是……"],["許委員宇甄：所以你現在提的是指還有286案待核定的這些案件嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：我說明一下，前瞻的部分就完全沒有辦法，因為前瞻沒有通過，所以前瞻的部分是完全……"],["許委員宇甄：我想請教一下署長，這是第五期嘛！前四期的前瞻計畫，你們也常常遇到先核定之後，經費才通過、才撥補下去的，有這種狀況吧？"],["吳署長欣修：我說明一下好了，現在前瞻是因為這一期到目前完全沒有通過，所以我們審查完以後，也有核定，但是我們現在就告訴它，因為預算完全……"],["許委員宇甄：請問一下署長，過去四期有沒有這種狀況？就是前瞻預算都還沒審查完畢，你們就已經有公告核定，只是等經費下來再撥補下去？"],["吳署長欣修：過去四期的前瞻有凍結，但是都是書面報告，而且我們都在1月份就直接提解凍，因為書面只要送過來就解決了。"],["許委員宇甄：對，現在為什麼不提呢？"],["吳署長欣修：現在第一個，這是專案報告啦！第二個，就像剛剛部長所提到的，因為院還有這一個部分，但是前瞻是完全沒有提啊！前瞻在立法院完全沒有排案，不是總預算。"],["許委員宇甄：好，這個部分只要立法院有排案的話，你們就可以馬上來處理嘛？"],["吳署長欣修：前瞻預算沒有三讀。"],["許委員宇甄：對！以往前四期我知道也有遇到這樣的狀況……"],["吳署長欣修：沒有這個問題，它只有……"],["許委員宇甄：前瞻沒有三讀，我們馬上排案的話，就馬上可以來處理，是這樣嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：那就要看大院的這個部分。"],["許委員宇甄：好，針對這個部分，我想請教一下，其實提升道路品質計畫今年就要屆滿，地方公所仍然有改善道路品質的需求，所以請問一下這個時候115年預算正在進行籌編，能不能有新的計畫繼續推動？"],["吳署長欣修：沒有，因為前瞻到今年就結束了。"],["許委員宇甄：但是前瞻結束之後，對未來的道路品質改善計畫，如鋪柏油路相關的工程，應該要用什麼樣的方式能夠持續來進行？"],["吳署長欣修：因為它原來就是特別預算，在公務預算原來的編列裡面，本來就是屬於地方的權責，之前是因為特別預算才有。"],["許委員宇甄：我剛剛講的是現在在編列115年預算，所以你們是不是應該要提出相關的預算？"],["吳署長欣修：我說明一下，原來在公務預算的認定裡面提升道路品質，也就是道路的重新刨鋪是屬於地方的權責，如果沒有特別預算的話，公務預算過去在編列的時候，它是不同意的。"],["許委員宇甄：所以你現在的意思就是，只要地方預算不足的話，你們還是可以編列公務預算去做這樣的……"],["吳署長欣修：沒有、沒有。在公務預算裡面，因為這是屬於地方的權責，所以這個部分在公務預算裡面是不會有。"],["許委員宇甄：也就是現在我們的財劃法通過之後，當地方有經費的時候，就可以用這筆錢去做這樣的……"],["吳署長欣修：那也是地方政府要自行支應。"],["許委員宇甄：只要到今年結束之後，有關的品質改善計畫就跟國土署沒有關係了，是嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：不是，是因為我們就不會再編列了。"],["許委員宇甄：對，如果有需要編列，你們會不會編列？"],["吳署長欣修：有需要也是要院這邊……因為主計總處的意思就是在於那個沒有辦法……"],["許委員宇甄：OK，好。就是有需要，你們應該也要提出，請主計處看是不是能夠對整個預算通盤檢討，是這樣嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：不過因為現在財劃法也遇到這樣的問題，這個我們其實不太敢……"],["許委員宇甄：那就是事權分工的問題，大家可以來好好地討論一下。"],["吳署長欣修：對，這個要重新再討論。"],["許委員宇甄：另外想請教一下部長，你最近全臺跑透透，參加「人民是頭家」的活動，因為您發言的內容其中摻雜了一些言論，我們可以先看一下影片。可以暫停一下嗎？這個聲音可以弄出來嗎？","（播放影片）"],["許委員宇甄：部長，您在這個影片當中提到我們砍了200億的預算，導致75萬租屋族領不到補貼。請問一下，我們有哪一個提案砍掉內政部200億的預算？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，對於裡面提到公然造謠、說謊，我是完全否認。我跟委員再重新講一次，你給我1分鐘的時間。"],["許委員宇甄：好！"],["劉部長世芳：第一個，我們在今年有送到行政院，即300億中央擴大租金補貼、住宅補助等這些部分送到行政院，要求行政院給我們撥補總數400億相關的部分，但是在住宅基金裡面有一項，如果它要新撥補200億的話，需要行政院中央政府總預算通過才能撥補給我們，這個部分在行政院，包括我們院長在多次的演講裡面同樣也提到，這裡面有一個總預算可不可以比去年多？中央政府總預算增加2,806億的時候，有一個擴大租金補貼、新建社宅的部分，就是200億，我現在所指的是這個部分，但是因為有一些委員……"],["許委員宇甄：請問是國民黨還是民眾黨把它砍掉的？"],["劉部長世芳：最後在立法院院會的時候，是這樣子舉手通過的啊！行政院114年度的總預算，您再給我一點時間。"],["許委員宇甄：等一下請主席再給我一點時間。"],["劉部長世芳：再來就是很多人針對在國土署裡面的部分，引用的是台灣民眾黨凍10%、刪10%，變成41.4億，所以兩個黨團裡面所說的部分是指國土署的那個部分，跟我所說的200億租金補貼是屬於新的、要放到內政部裡面作為住宅基金是不一樣的，我不清楚為什麼有一些委員在沒有弄清楚我所講的狀況之下，說我是公然造謠跟說謊，我不能夠承認這個部分。"],["許委員宇甄：剛剛的影片你有提到，就是會影響75萬租屋……"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，在上一年度的時候，原來我們的租金補貼是50萬戶，但是我們後來跟行政院要求的時候，我們預估可能會達到75萬戶，我現在所說的200億是從75萬戶的比例往前推的。"],["許委員宇甄：好，那請問一下國土署，我們針對剛剛講的400億中凍結10%，即會凍結41億的部分，會讓75萬人全數拿不到租金補助嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：應該這麼說，這是算法上啦！因為我們現在變成每一個月至少要31億到36億之間的數字，所以最有可能到11月就完全不夠了。"],["許委員宇甄：所以說到11月嘛！是嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：是，所以75萬戶還是會影響。"],["許委員宇甄：因為你租金補貼是每個月發放的，所以到11月就不夠了，也就是說11月之前，你只要提出解凍案就應該沒有這個問題吧？也不會讓75萬租戶拿不到吧？"],["吳署長欣修：對，因為現在還有一個中央政府總預算統刪的六百多億還沒有確認，所以現在變成到底它最後能不能給我們這個經費，我們也不知道。"],["許委員宇甄：好，請問一下，針對414億的部分，這個案子是凍結10%沒錯吧？"],["吳署長欣修：是。"],["許委員宇甄：對，所以剛剛你也提到嘛！到11月之後可能才會影響，也就是影響到12月份的部分。"],["吳署長欣修：那是如果其他都沒有改變的話，就是照這個方式。"],["許委員宇甄：對，那是不是只要你儘快提出這個案子的解凍案，送到我們委員會來提出解凍的申請，我相信我們的召委一定會儘快排案。"],["吳署長欣修：報告，第一個是程序問題，政院要跟立院要交辦，才交到委員會這邊來。"],["許委員宇甄：所以是行政院的問題囉？"],["吳署長欣修：也不是，就是回到剛剛那個基本的問題，沒有辦法、窒礙難行……"],["許委員宇甄：針對通案的部分，也就是剛剛你們提到六百三十幾億的通案，我們覺得可以先跳過，但是非通案的部分，其實就可以先提出報告。"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，那個不叫通案。"],["許委員宇甄：非通案的部分呢？"],["劉部長世芳：關於通刪的部分，303億行政院都通刪了。"],["許委員宇甄：對，我知道，但是以這個案子來說我們就凍結10%嘛！"],["劉部長世芳：立法院要求多的636億要行政院自己回去看要刪哪裡、凍哪裡，但是目前為止，我們並沒有這樣的定案……"],["許委員宇甄：你們覺得窒礙難行嘛！"],["劉部長世芳：非常窒礙難行，因為沒有任何一個……"],["許委員宇甄：好，窒礙難行，那是不是請主計總處能夠提出來窒礙難行的地方，大家共同來討論，我們也提出來了嘛！就是說有什麼窒礙難行的地方就提到立法院來，大家共來找出解方，而不是現在擺爛你知道嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：報告許委員，在行政院提出覆議案的時候，已經把窒礙難行跟違憲還有違反預算法的部分都寫清楚了，但是因為表決的時候，我們還是……"],["許委員宇甄：其實就我們的了解……"],["劉部長世芳：行政院沒有辦法通過立法院的表決，就是六百多億的部分。"],["許委員宇甄：其實以這個案子而言，我知道國土署內部都已經在報院了，其實這個案子早就已經把解凍的報告寫好，只是因為長官沒有簽核……"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，我們希望自來水龍頭打開就有水，可是源頭如果沒有處理的話，自來水龍頭怎麼會有水出來呢？"],["許委員宇甄：所以我們還是希望大家趕快為了人民、以民生為主啦！部長，我覺得我們還是要以民生為主啦！希望這個部分趕快去處理，能夠解凍就趕快提出來，我們的召委都已經提前來做這樣的專案報告，就是希望節省時間，所以只要你們提出來……"],["劉部長世芳：我想不是從委員會，而是要從院會。"],["許委員宇甄：OK，那就是要拜託行政院能夠儘快地提出，好嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：希望立法院的院會可以體現……"],["許委員宇甄：對，那是不是請行政院能夠提出好嗎？謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝許宇甄委員。","我再次跟委員會說明，當然我們理解就是因為有一個通刪的壓力在那個地方，所以當然壓力會很大，不過我想我們之前有辦過專案報告的幾個案子，包含租金補貼的四十幾億，對不對？還有今天所討論的生活圈有1,750萬，這些東西其實都跟民生建設有比較高的關聯性，我相信即便在內政部部裡面討論的時候，你大概也不會優先撙節這一部分，所以我想這一部分先行解凍應該是不衝突的，我們期待趕快來提案、趕快付委，我們早點把這個程序走完，以上。","下一位請陳雪生委員質詢，陳雪生委員，陳雪生委員不在。","鍾佳濱委員請質詢，鍾佳濱委員，鍾佳濱委員不在。","下一位請鄭天財委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":354,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-8","speakers":["牛煦庭","張宏陸","李柏毅","麥玉珍","張智倫","王美惠","黃捷","蘇巧慧","黃建賓","吳琪銘","洪孟楷","許宇甄","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","李坤城","徐欣瑩","徐富癸","張啓楷","高金素梅","丁學忠"],"page_start":295,"meetingDate":["2025-04-07"],"gazette_id":"1143401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143401_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請內政部部長、交通部就「市區道路品質改善計畫執行效益與檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143401_00011"}}}