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\"end\": 103.219, \"text\": \"那今天呢我在國安局的這個夜報裡面也有看出來就是說國安局其實有點出來了與此同時呢其實中國呢他也是在加強推動跟像英國、日本、印度、南韓、澳洲等國的這個接觸來修補\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 88.306, \"end\": 88.667, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 88.667, \"end\": 88.887, \"score\": 0.676}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 88.887, \"end\": 89.107, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 89.107, \"end\": 89.227, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 89.227, \"end\": 89.387, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 89.387, \"end\": 89.727, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 89.727, \"end\": 89.908, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"局\", \"start\": 89.908, \"end\": 90.088, \"score\": 0.739}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 90.088, \"end\": 91.129, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"夜\", \"start\": 91.129, \"end\": 91.629, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 91.629, \"end\": 91.889, 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00:01:00,983\n來重啟這個談判可是本席呢認為還有更重要的一點應該就是戰略盟友的這個重新的這個篩選那再來就是要強迫全球來做這個選邊站那當然針對這一題因為局長您是這個全球的戰略專家\n\n5\n00:01:11,491 --> 00:01:26,064\n所以本席可能待會很希望就聽到您的一些見解跟一些方向那當然美國這麼做他希望就是說迫使全球的這個貿易國來選邊站來消除這個模糊空間那希望就是能夠建立一個很明確的美國經濟安全的這個陣營\n\n6\n00:01:28,306 --> 00:01:43,219\n那今天呢我在國安局的這個夜報裡面也有看出來就是說國安局其實有點出來了與此同時呢其實中國呢他也是在加強推動跟像英國、日本、印度、南韓、澳洲等國的這個接觸來修補\n\n7\n00:01:44,620 --> 00:02:10,919\n跟這些國家的這些關係那再來呢他對這個歐洲日本南韓我們也看到就是說他跟38國呢當方面來開放這個免簽等等那這種種手段我們都看得出說其實中國呢未來是要來強化拉攏其他國家來對抗美國的這個這個手段那作為台灣覺得台灣非常的小可是呢我們卻是半導體產業的重中之重那在未來\n\n8\n00:02:12,100 --> 00:02:19,483\n美中兩強在經濟上也好政治上也好他們所推動的這個陣營重組呢那到底台灣要如何來自處台灣要如何來面對那當然面對這次的股災顧問其實很擔心我們會不會1930年代的這大蕭條那是不是會重新重演那面對這一局呢台灣對台灣來講到底是轉機還是危機所以局長你如何來看這一局\n\n9\n00:02:38,989 --> 00:03:08,229\n我想委員的問題是大概有三個部分第一個部分是川普關稅政策背後的動機第二部分是中共怎麼因應第三部分是台灣怎麼樣在過程當中有自我的經貿戰略的定位那就川普的動機來講我想委員剛剛的說明也非常的清楚他希望推動美國的再工業化那透過關稅的政策來使各國可以加大在美國的投資那讓美國這邊可以增加他的一個相關的一個就業率那他是有一個內外的一個\n\n10\n00:03:09,450 --> 00:03:25,146\n評估的一個考量在裡面那中共的部分我們剛剛也提到了他開始去拉攏透過這種所謂的笑臉攻勢來改善跟相關國家的一個關係那也希望透過這樣的一個過程能夠來特別強化他跟南方國家\n\n11\n00:03:25,926 --> 00:03:55,349\n全球南方國家彼此之間在經貿上的一個連結那後續我覺得可能在國際上要注意到的我剛也跟我們的媒體朋友說明一方面是美中之間的關稅戰會不會持續的升溫那第二部分是保護主義的浪潮會不會在國際經貿體系再現那第三個部分就有關於可能在整個新的一個發展過程當中會不會有雙邊跟多邊的FTA的倡議會有更多國家來提出來這也是要觀察的重點\n\n12\n00:03:56,090 --> 00:04:13,529\n就我國的一個本身的因應來講剛剛媒體朋友也在關注第一個部分我想我們提出來的並不是一個報復的措施我們提出來的是具體的解決方案所以總統也整合到我們的服務院的團隊有跟企業界包括高科技的產業以及傳統產業不斷地座談\n\n13\n00:04:15,331 --> 00:04:30,181\n來了解到這樣的關稅政策可能對我們產業產生的衝擊是什麼在了解之後再提出了相關的應應做法包括短期怎麼樣有一些應急的措施中長期也有一個比較長期的產業佈局來維持我們產業的競爭力那第二部分我剛也跟媒體說明\n\n14\n00:04:31,802 --> 00:04:51,053\n總統也指示我們要啟動我們的戰略溝通台美之間所以我們在週末的時候已經跟美方來表達我們對於進行關稅協商的一個立場還有一些提議那美方也由他們的白宮的資深官員對外證實台美已經有啟動這樣的一個溝通的機制那第三個部分是我們怎麼樣來\n\n15\n00:04:53,074 --> 00:05:12,104\n針對台美後續可能展開的關稅的協商來做準備那這部分總統跟府院團隊已經召開多非常非常多次的會議那包括怎麼樣來啟動所謂的零關稅的協商那以及來撤除所謂的非關稅的障礙那另外也涉及到怎麼樣來避免稀產地或加強這個所謂的\n\n16\n00:05:15,703 --> 00:05:32,823\n出口管制的一個機制那同時來加大對美的投資跟採購那大概我們的一個方案是還蠻完整的所以只要有機會可以啟動台美的關稅協商的話我相信雙方應該很容易就可以對焦那能夠有一些比較快的一個進展來推動這大概是我們初步的觀察\n\n17\n00:05:33,383 --> 00:05:50,172\n呃局長我們跟台美之間我們要啟動這個談判的這個時機啊那當然我昨天也看到媒體有報導就是說我們可能在排序上面不會是很前面我們可能會比較後面所以局長你認為這個部分呢因為我剛才有提到就是說我們作為這個半導體\n\n18\n00:05:51,212 --> 00:06:00,258\n的這個重中之重那當然我在想這部分我們跟美國的談判的這個時機點你認為說會是在什麼時候然後這個高關稅的這個這個波動到底會不會有一個以你的情節來講會不會有沒有一個時間點會在什麼時候收斂這個部分\n\n19\n00:06:13,828 --> 00:06:35,561\n在這部分來講我們所知道的因為現在有很多國家應該以美國官方的說法已經有七十幾個國家希望跟美國來進行相關的關稅協商就我們所知道的他們正在做蠻密集的開會在做必要的評估有一些比較優先的名單我們也是期待台灣可以很快的在優先名單當中讓雙方盡快來啟動相關的協商談判\n\n20\n00:06:39,178 --> 00:06:48,656\nOK好那這一題先到這裡因為我還有第二題我想要邀請的是我們調查局我們陳局長你也先留步喔\n\n21\n00:06:53,072 --> 00:07:09,220\n因為這個部分跟剛剛我們局長的報告也有關係就提到就是說有關這個共諜案剛剛局長的報告就是說從2020年開始到現在我們共諜案起訴人數總共有159人那其中的現役跟退役的軍人有\n\n22\n00:07:10,241 --> 00:07:23,061\n95人非常的高佔了這個共諜案的60%所以現在我們也看到就是說不管是軍人也好或政府機關其實被滲透是非常嚴重的那本席要提到就是說其實上個禮拜就發生了這個\n\n23\n00:07:25,244 --> 00:07:41,271\n國會助理被滲透的事情當然這事情也發生在我的前助理的身上我想請教就是調查局這裡我想你們跟蹤你們在跟蹤一個涉案人涉案人絕對不是一天兩天因為只是一年兩年是三年四年的時間可是\n\n24\n00:07:44,612 --> 00:08:13,456\n各個辦公室其實在徵聘這個助理的時候其實看的也就是他的履歷我們從履歷上面根本看不到看不出來他曾經涉及什麼案子可是我在想國安單位應該是知道的這部分沒有辦法就是說你們在追蹤這個涉案人的時候可以給辦公室我想所有不管是執政黨也好在野黨也好面臨這種問題的時候當他應聘進來的助理其實有涉及這個國安問題有沒有辦法去做一個警示\n\n25\n00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:33,251\n有沒有辦法給辦公室做一個警示跟委員報告因為這個涉及到刑事訴訟法有關偵查不公開的問題所以在市警就是說在案件執行之前提供這樣子的市警在法律上對我們來說是有限制的所以你們的做法會是什麼就是說靜觀其變嗎\n\n26\n00:08:34,672 --> 00:08:50,072\n我們當然在希望能夠在最短的時間內把這個案件偵破那我們的目的其實是要瓦解是要瓦解他的這個危害的產生所以我們會用最快的方式然後盡最大的努力去對這個對象來做做調查\n\n27\n00:08:53,243 --> 00:09:09,197\n所以因為最近也跟各個辦公室在討論之前大家就會覺得說這種完全釋而防不釋而防因為你們有辦案的這個方式那辦公室也不知情所以當然就是會在毫無知情的情況之下你可能就是應聘了可能就涉案的這個助理\n\n28\n00:09:10,618 --> 00:09:31,239\n所以對辦公室未來可能就是在應聘助理的時候難道像尤其是我們是國防外交的委員就是每次在應聘助理的時候就要請示一下國安單位這個助理的背景嗎這有辦法做到嗎我想這個部分可能就是在特殊查核的部分有在讓他在健全\n\n29\n00:09:32,841 --> 00:09:47,173\n的一個努力的空間目前我們有執行這個涉及到國家安全以及重大利益的這些公務人員的特殊查核不過他是正面表列的目前大概有1328個職位是必須要特殊查核\n\n30\n00:09:50,876 --> 00:10:10,886\n但是1328不含國會助理那當然我們可能有些助理有些僱員他們可能不知道說這種涉及這個共諜滲透這個案子是多麼嚴重的一件事情所以我在想說是未來我們國安單位可以跟像政府機關也好或相關單位來做一個\n\n31\n00:10:11,966 --> 00:10:23,525\n提供一個反滲透的一個課程針對這一個公務人員啊助理啊等等是是對我是想想說這個可能是要需要需要進行的啦這個部分可以是是OK好以上謝謝謝謝羅美玲\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n109\t13147\t謝謝主席 有請國安局蔡局長好 謝謝主席 各位很早\n15999\t33375\t局長早 首先要跟局長探討的是這兩天全球的股災川普他的關稅政策造成全球的股市跌跌不休連同今天我想應該也是\n35357\t49353\t當然台灣也沒有辦法倖免那川普他克正這個高關稅的理由除了說要迫使這個工業跟製造業回流到美國要重塑全球貿易跟產業的供應鏈之外那也要迫使這個貿易國呢\n54518\t60983\t來重啟這個談判可是本席呢認為還有更重要的一點應該就是戰略盟友的這個重新的這個篩選那再來就是要強迫全球來做這個選邊站那當然針對這一題因為局長您是這個全球的戰略專家\n71491\t86064\t所以本席可能待會很希望就聽到您的一些見解跟一些方向那當然美國這麼做他希望就是說迫使全球的這個貿易國來選邊站來消除這個模糊空間那希望就是能夠建立一個很明確的美國經濟安全的這個陣營\n88306\t103219\t那今天呢我在國安局的這個夜報裡面也有看出來就是說國安局其實有點出來了與此同時呢其實中國呢他也是在加強推動跟像英國、日本、印度、南韓、澳洲等國的這個接觸來修補\n104620\t130919\t跟這些國家的這些關係那再來呢他對這個歐洲日本南韓我們也看到就是說他跟38國呢當方面來開放這個免簽等等那這種種手段我們都看得出說其實中國呢未來是要來強化拉攏其他國家來對抗美國的這個這個手段那作為台灣覺得台灣非常的小可是呢我們卻是半導體產業的重中之重那在未來\n132100\t139483\t美中兩強在經濟上也好政治上也好他們所推動的這個陣營重組呢那到底台灣要如何來自處台灣要如何來面對那當然面對這次的股災顧問其實很擔心我們會不會1930年代的這大蕭條那是不是會重新重演那面對這一局呢台灣對台灣來講到底是轉機還是危機所以局長你如何來看這一局\n158989\t188229\t我想委員的問題是大概有三個部分第一個部分是川普關稅政策背後的動機第二部分是中共怎麼因應第三部分是台灣怎麼樣在過程當中有自我的經貿戰略的定位那就川普的動機來講我想委員剛剛的說明也非常的清楚他希望推動美國的再工業化那透過關稅的政策來使各國可以加大在美國的投資那讓美國這邊可以增加他的一個相關的一個就業率那他是有一個內外的一個\n189450\t205146\t評估的一個考量在裡面那中共的部分我們剛剛也提到了他開始去拉攏透過這種所謂的笑臉攻勢來改善跟相關國家的一個關係那也希望透過這樣的一個過程能夠來特別強化他跟南方國家\n205926\t235349\t全球南方國家彼此之間在經貿上的一個連結那後續我覺得可能在國際上要注意到的我剛也跟我們的媒體朋友說明一方面是美中之間的關稅戰會不會持續的升溫那第二部分是保護主義的浪潮會不會在國際經貿體系再現那第三個部分就有關於可能在整個新的一個發展過程當中會不會有雙邊跟多邊的FTA的倡議會有更多國家來提出來這也是要觀察的重點\n236090\t253529\t就我國的一個本身的因應來講剛剛媒體朋友也在關注第一個部分我想我們提出來的並不是一個報復的措施我們提出來的是具體的解決方案所以總統也整合到我們的服務院的團隊有跟企業界包括高科技的產業以及傳統產業不斷地座談\n255331\t270181\t來了解到這樣的關稅政策可能對我們產業產生的衝擊是什麼在了解之後再提出了相關的應應做法包括短期怎麼樣有一些應急的措施中長期也有一個比較長期的產業佈局來維持我們產業的競爭力那第二部分我剛也跟媒體說明\n271802\t291053\t總統也指示我們要啟動我們的戰略溝通台美之間所以我們在週末的時候已經跟美方來表達我們對於進行關稅協商的一個立場還有一些提議那美方也由他們的白宮的資深官員對外證實台美已經有啟動這樣的一個溝通的機制那第三個部分是我們怎麼樣來\n293074\t312104\t針對台美後續可能展開的關稅的協商來做準備那這部分總統跟府院團隊已經召開多非常非常多次的會議那包括怎麼樣來啟動所謂的零關稅的協商那以及來撤除所謂的非關稅的障礙那另外也涉及到怎麼樣來避免稀產地或加強這個所謂的\n315703\t332823\t出口管制的一個機制那同時來加大對美的投資跟採購那大概我們的一個方案是還蠻完整的所以只要有機會可以啟動台美的關稅協商的話我相信雙方應該很容易就可以對焦那能夠有一些比較快的一個進展來推動這大概是我們初步的觀察\n333383\t350172\t呃局長我們跟台美之間我們要啟動這個談判的這個時機啊那當然我昨天也看到媒體有報導就是說我們可能在排序上面不會是很前面我們可能會比較後面所以局長你認為這個部分呢因為我剛才有提到就是說我們作為這個半導體\n351212\t360258\t的這個重中之重那當然我在想這部分我們跟美國的談判的這個時機點你認為說會是在什麼時候然後這個高關稅的這個這個波動到底會不會有一個以你的情節來講會不會有沒有一個時間點會在什麼時候收斂這個部分\n373828\t395561\t在這部分來講我們所知道的因為現在有很多國家應該以美國官方的說法已經有七十幾個國家希望跟美國來進行相關的關稅協商就我們所知道的他們正在做蠻密集的開會在做必要的評估有一些比較優先的名單我們也是期待台灣可以很快的在優先名單當中讓雙方盡快來啟動相關的協商談判\n399178\t408656\tOK 好 那這一題先到這裡因為我還有第二題我想要邀請的是我們調查局我們陳局長你也先留步喔\n413072\t429220\t因為這個部分跟剛剛我們局長的報告也有關係就提到就是說有關這個共諜案剛剛局長的報告就是說從2020年開始到現在我們共諜案起訴人數總共有159人那其中的現役跟退役的軍人有\n430241\t443061\t95人非常的高佔了這個共諜案的60%所以現在我們也看到就是說不管是軍人也好或政府機關其實被滲透是非常嚴重的那本席要提到就是說其實上個禮拜就發生了這個\n445244\t461271\t國會助理被滲透的事情當然這事情也發生在我的前助理的身上我想請教就是調查局這裡我想你們跟蹤你們在跟蹤一個涉案人涉案人絕對不是一天兩天因為只是一年兩年是三年四年的時間可是\n464612\t493456\t各個辦公室其實在徵聘這個助理的時候其實看的也就是他的履歷我們從履歷上面根本看不到看不出來他曾經涉及什麼案子可是我在想國安單位應該是知道的這部分沒有辦法就是說你們在追蹤這個涉案人的時候可以給辦公室我想所有不管是執政黨也好在野黨也好面臨這種問題的時候當他應聘進來的助理其實有涉及這個國安問題有沒有辦法去做一個警示\n494400\t513251\t有沒有辦法給辦公室做一個警示跟委員報告因為這個涉及到刑事訴訟法有關偵查不公開的問題所以在市警就是說在案件執行之前提供這樣子的市警在法律上對我們來說是有限制的所以你們的做法會是什麼就是說靜觀其變嗎\n514672\t530072\t我們當然在希望能夠在最短的時間內把這個案件偵破那我們的目的其實是要瓦解是要瓦解他的這個危害的產生所以我們會用最快的方式然後盡最大的努力去對這個對象來做做調查\n533243\t549197\t所以因為最近也跟各個辦公室在討論之前大家就會覺得說這種完全釋而防不釋而防因為你們有辦案的這個方式那辦公室也不知情所以當然就是會在毫無知情的情況之下你可能就是應聘了可能就涉案的這個助理\n550618\t571239\t所以對辦公室未來可能就是在應聘助理的時候難道像尤其是我們是國防外交的委員就是每次在應聘助理的時候就要請示一下國安單位這個助理的背景嗎這有辦法做到嗎我想這個部分可能就是在特殊查核的部分有在讓他在健全\n572841\t587173\t的一個努力的空間目前我們有執行這個涉及到國家安全以及重大利益的這些公務人員的特殊查核不過他是正面表列的目前大概有1328個職位是必須要特殊查核\n590876\t610886\t但是1328不含國會助理那當然我們可能有些助理有些僱員他們可能不知道說這種涉及這個共諜滲透這個案子是多麼嚴重的一件事情所以我在想說是未來我們國安單位可以跟像政府機關也好或相關單位來做一個\n611966\t623525\t提供一個反滲透的一個課程針對這一個公務人員啊助理啊等等是是對我是想想說這個可能是要需要需要進行的啦這個部分可以是是OK好 以上謝謝謝謝羅美玲\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請國安局蔡局長好 謝謝主席 各位很早\n局長早 首先要跟局長探討的是這兩天全球的股災川普他的關稅政策造成全球的股市跌跌不休連同今天我想應該也是\n當然台灣也沒有辦法倖免那川普他克正這個高關稅的理由除了說要迫使這個工業跟製造業回流到美國要重塑全球貿易跟產業的供應鏈之外那也要迫使這個貿易國呢\n來重啟這個談判可是本席呢認為還有更重要的一點應該就是戰略盟友的這個重新的這個篩選那再來就是要強迫全球來做這個選邊站那當然針對這一題因為局長您是這個全球的戰略專家\n所以本席可能待會很希望就聽到您的一些見解跟一些方向那當然美國這麼做他希望就是說迫使全球的這個貿易國來選邊站來消除這個模糊空間那希望就是能夠建立一個很明確的美國經濟安全的這個陣營\n那今天呢我在國安局的這個夜報裡面也有看出來就是說國安局其實有點出來了與此同時呢其實中國呢他也是在加強推動跟像英國、日本、印度、南韓、澳洲等國的這個接觸來修補\n跟這些國家的這些關係那再來呢他對這個歐洲日本南韓我們也看到就是說他跟38國呢當方面來開放這個免簽等等那這種種手段我們都看得出說其實中國呢未來是要來強化拉攏其他國家來對抗美國的這個這個手段那作為台灣覺得台灣非常的小可是呢我們卻是半導體產業的重中之重那在未來\n美中兩強在經濟上也好政治上也好他們所推動的這個陣營重組呢那到底台灣要如何來自處台灣要如何來面對那當然面對這次的股災顧問其實很擔心我們會不會1930年代的這大蕭條那是不是會重新重演那面對這一局呢台灣對台灣來講到底是轉機還是危機所以局長你如何來看這一局\n我想委員的問題是大概有三個部分第一個部分是川普關稅政策背後的動機第二部分是中共怎麼因應第三部分是台灣怎麼樣在過程當中有自我的經貿戰略的定位那就川普的動機來講我想委員剛剛的說明也非常的清楚他希望推動美國的再工業化那透過關稅的政策來使各國可以加大在美國的投資那讓美國這邊可以增加他的一個相關的一個就業率那他是有一個內外的一個\n評估的一個考量在裡面那中共的部分我們剛剛也提到了他開始去拉攏透過這種所謂的笑臉攻勢來改善跟相關國家的一個關係那也希望透過這樣的一個過程能夠來特別強化他跟南方國家\n全球南方國家彼此之間在經貿上的一個連結那後續我覺得可能在國際上要注意到的我剛也跟我們的媒體朋友說明一方面是美中之間的關稅戰會不會持續的升溫那第二部分是保護主義的浪潮會不會在國際經貿體系再現那第三個部分就有關於可能在整個新的一個發展過程當中會不會有雙邊跟多邊的FTA的倡議會有更多國家來提出來這也是要觀察的重點\n就我國的一個本身的因應來講剛剛媒體朋友也在關注第一個部分我想我們提出來的並不是一個報復的措施我們提出來的是具體的解決方案所以總統也整合到我們的服務院的團隊有跟企業界包括高科技的產業以及傳統產業不斷地座談\n來了解到這樣的關稅政策可能對我們產業產生的衝擊是什麼在了解之後再提出了相關的應應做法包括短期怎麼樣有一些應急的措施中長期也有一個比較長期的產業佈局來維持我們產業的競爭力那第二部分我剛也跟媒體說明\n總統也指示我們要啟動我們的戰略溝通台美之間所以我們在週末的時候已經跟美方來表達我們對於進行關稅協商的一個立場還有一些提議那美方也由他們的白宮的資深官員對外證實台美已經有啟動這樣的一個溝通的機制那第三個部分是我們怎麼樣來\n針對台美後續可能展開的關稅的協商來做準備那這部分總統跟府院團隊已經召開多非常非常多次的會議那包括怎麼樣來啟動所謂的零關稅的協商那以及來撤除所謂的非關稅的障礙那另外也涉及到怎麼樣來避免稀產地或加強這個所謂的\n出口管制的一個機制那同時來加大對美的投資跟採購那大概我們的一個方案是還蠻完整的所以只要有機會可以啟動台美的關稅協商的話我相信雙方應該很容易就可以對焦那能夠有一些比較快的一個進展來推動這大概是我們初步的觀察\n呃局長我們跟台美之間我們要啟動這個談判的這個時機啊那當然我昨天也看到媒體有報導就是說我們可能在排序上面不會是很前面我們可能會比較後面所以局長你認為這個部分呢因為我剛才有提到就是說我們作為這個半導體\n的這個重中之重那當然我在想這部分我們跟美國的談判的這個時機點你認為說會是在什麼時候然後這個高關稅的這個這個波動到底會不會有一個以你的情節來講會不會有沒有一個時間點會在什麼時候收斂這個部分\n在這部分來講我們所知道的因為現在有很多國家應該以美國官方的說法已經有七十幾個國家希望跟美國來進行相關的關稅協商就我們所知道的他們正在做蠻密集的開會在做必要的評估有一些比較優先的名單我們也是期待台灣可以很快的在優先名單當中讓雙方盡快來啟動相關的協商談判\nOK 好 那這一題先到這裡因為我還有第二題我想要邀請的是我們調查局我們陳局長你也先留步喔\n因為這個部分跟剛剛我們局長的報告也有關係就提到就是說有關這個共諜案剛剛局長的報告就是說從2020年開始到現在我們共諜案起訴人數總共有159人那其中的現役跟退役的軍人有\n95人非常的高佔了這個共諜案的60%所以現在我們也看到就是說不管是軍人也好或政府機關其實被滲透是非常嚴重的那本席要提到就是說其實上個禮拜就發生了這個\n國會助理被滲透的事情當然這事情也發生在我的前助理的身上我想請教就是調查局這裡我想你們跟蹤你們在跟蹤一個涉案人涉案人絕對不是一天兩天因為只是一年兩年是三年四年的時間可是\n各個辦公室其實在徵聘這個助理的時候其實看的也就是他的履歷我們從履歷上面根本看不到看不出來他曾經涉及什麼案子可是我在想國安單位應該是知道的這部分沒有辦法就是說你們在追蹤這個涉案人的時候可以給辦公室我想所有不管是執政黨也好在野黨也好面臨這種問題的時候當他應聘進來的助理其實有涉及這個國安問題有沒有辦法去做一個警示\n有沒有辦法給辦公室做一個警示跟委員報告因為這個涉及到刑事訴訟法有關偵查不公開的問題所以在市警就是說在案件執行之前提供這樣子的市警在法律上對我們來說是有限制的所以你們的做法會是什麼就是說靜觀其變嗎\n我們當然在希望能夠在最短的時間內把這個案件偵破那我們的目的其實是要瓦解是要瓦解他的這個危害的產生所以我們會用最快的方式然後盡最大的努力去對這個對象來做做調查\n所以因為最近也跟各個辦公室在討論之前大家就會覺得說這種完全釋而防不釋而防因為你們有辦案的這個方式那辦公室也不知情所以當然就是會在毫無知情的情況之下你可能就是應聘了可能就涉案的這個助理\n所以對辦公室未來可能就是在應聘助理的時候難道像尤其是我們是國防外交的委員就是每次在應聘助理的時候就要請示一下國安單位這個助理的背景嗎這有辦法做到嗎我想這個部分可能就是在特殊查核的部分有在讓他在健全\n的一個努力的空間目前我們有執行這個涉及到國家安全以及重大利益的這些公務人員的特殊查核不過他是正面表列的目前大概有1328個職位是必須要特殊查核\n但是1328不含國會助理那當然我們可能有些助理有些僱員他們可能不知道說這種涉及這個共諜滲透這個案子是多麼嚴重的一件事情所以我在想說是未來我們國安單位可以跟像政府機關也好或相關單位來做一個\n提供一個反滲透的一個課程針對這一個公務人員啊助理啊等等是是對我是想想說這個可能是要需要需要進行的啦這個部分可以是是OK好 以上謝謝謝謝羅美玲\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.109 --> 00:13.147\n謝謝主席有請國安局蔡局長好謝謝主席各位很早\n\n00:15.999 --> 00:33.375\n局長早首先要跟局長探討的是這兩天全球的股災川普他的關稅政策造成全球的股市跌跌不休連同今天我想應該也是\n\n00:35.357 --> 00:49.353\n當然台灣也沒有辦法倖免那川普他克正這個高關稅的理由除了說要迫使這個工業跟製造業回流到美國要重塑全球貿易跟產業的供應鏈之外那也要迫使這個貿易國呢\n\n00:54.518 --> 01:00.983\n來重啟這個談判可是本席呢認為還有更重要的一點應該就是戰略盟友的這個重新的這個篩選那再來就是要強迫全球來做這個選邊站那當然針對這一題因為局長您是這個全球的戰略專家\n\n01:11.491 --> 01:26.064\n所以本席可能待會很希望就聽到您的一些見解跟一些方向那當然美國這麼做他希望就是說迫使全球的這個貿易國來選邊站來消除這個模糊空間那希望就是能夠建立一個很明確的美國經濟安全的這個陣營\n\n01:28.306 --> 01:43.219\n那今天呢我在國安局的這個夜報裡面也有看出來就是說國安局其實有點出來了與此同時呢其實中國呢他也是在加強推動跟像英國、日本、印度、南韓、澳洲等國的這個接觸來修補\n\n01:44.620 --> 02:10.919\n跟這些國家的這些關係那再來呢他對這個歐洲日本南韓我們也看到就是說他跟38國呢當方面來開放這個免簽等等那這種種手段我們都看得出說其實中國呢未來是要來強化拉攏其他國家來對抗美國的這個這個手段那作為台灣覺得台灣非常的小可是呢我們卻是半導體產業的重中之重那在未來\n\n02:12.100 --> 02:19.483\n美中兩強在經濟上也好政治上也好他們所推動的這個陣營重組呢那到底台灣要如何來自處台灣要如何來面對那當然面對這次的股災顧問其實很擔心我們會不會1930年代的這大蕭條那是不是會重新重演那面對這一局呢台灣對台灣來講到底是轉機還是危機所以局長你如何來看這一局\n\n02:38.989 --> 03:08.229\n我想委員的問題是大概有三個部分第一個部分是川普關稅政策背後的動機第二部分是中共怎麼因應第三部分是台灣怎麼樣在過程當中有自我的經貿戰略的定位那就川普的動機來講我想委員剛剛的說明也非常的清楚他希望推動美國的再工業化那透過關稅的政策來使各國可以加大在美國的投資那讓美國這邊可以增加他的一個相關的一個就業率那他是有一個內外的一個\n\n03:09.450 --> 03:25.146\n評估的一個考量在裡面那中共的部分我們剛剛也提到了他開始去拉攏透過這種所謂的笑臉攻勢來改善跟相關國家的一個關係那也希望透過這樣的一個過程能夠來特別強化他跟南方國家\n\n03:25.926 --> 03:55.349\n全球南方國家彼此之間在經貿上的一個連結那後續我覺得可能在國際上要注意到的我剛也跟我們的媒體朋友說明一方面是美中之間的關稅戰會不會持續的升溫那第二部分是保護主義的浪潮會不會在國際經貿體系再現那第三個部分就有關於可能在整個新的一個發展過程當中會不會有雙邊跟多邊的FTA的倡議會有更多國家來提出來這也是要觀察的重點\n\n03:56.090 --> 04:13.529\n就我國的一個本身的因應來講剛剛媒體朋友也在關注第一個部分我想我們提出來的並不是一個報復的措施我們提出來的是具體的解決方案所以總統也整合到我們的服務院的團隊有跟企業界包括高科技的產業以及傳統產業不斷地座談\n\n04:15.331 --> 04:30.181\n來了解到這樣的關稅政策可能對我們產業產生的衝擊是什麼在了解之後再提出了相關的應應做法包括短期怎麼樣有一些應急的措施中長期也有一個比較長期的產業佈局來維持我們產業的競爭力那第二部分我剛也跟媒體說明\n\n04:31.802 --> 04:51.053\n總統也指示我們要啟動我們的戰略溝通台美之間所以我們在週末的時候已經跟美方來表達我們對於進行關稅協商的一個立場還有一些提議那美方也由他們的白宮的資深官員對外證實台美已經有啟動這樣的一個溝通的機制那第三個部分是我們怎麼樣來\n\n04:53.074 --> 05:12.104\n針對台美後續可能展開的關稅的協商來做準備那這部分總統跟府院團隊已經召開多非常非常多次的會議那包括怎麼樣來啟動所謂的零關稅的協商那以及來撤除所謂的非關稅的障礙那另外也涉及到怎麼樣來避免稀產地或加強這個所謂的\n\n05:15.703 --> 05:32.823\n出口管制的一個機制那同時來加大對美的投資跟採購那大概我們的一個方案是還蠻完整的所以只要有機會可以啟動台美的關稅協商的話我相信雙方應該很容易就可以對焦那能夠有一些比較快的一個進展來推動這大概是我們初步的觀察\n\n05:33.383 --> 05:50.172\n呃局長我們跟台美之間我們要啟動這個談判的這個時機啊那當然我昨天也看到媒體有報導就是說我們可能在排序上面不會是很前面我們可能會比較後面所以局長你認為這個部分呢因為我剛才有提到就是說我們作為這個半導體\n\n05:51.212 --> 06:00.258\n的這個重中之重那當然我在想這部分我們跟美國的談判的這個時機點你認為說會是在什麼時候然後這個高關稅的這個這個波動到底會不會有一個以你的情節來講會不會有沒有一個時間點會在什麼時候收斂這個部分\n\n06:13.828 --> 06:35.561\n在這部分來講我們所知道的因為現在有很多國家應該以美國官方的說法已經有七十幾個國家希望跟美國來進行相關的關稅協商就我們所知道的他們正在做蠻密集的開會在做必要的評估有一些比較優先的名單我們也是期待台灣可以很快的在優先名單當中讓雙方盡快來啟動相關的協商談判\n\n06:39.178 --> 06:48.656\nOK好那這一題先到這裡因為我還有第二題我想要邀請的是我們調查局我們陳局長你也先留步喔\n\n06:53.072 --> 07:09.220\n因為這個部分跟剛剛我們局長的報告也有關係就提到就是說有關這個共諜案剛剛局長的報告就是說從2020年開始到現在我們共諜案起訴人數總共有159人那其中的現役跟退役的軍人有\n\n07:10.241 --> 07:23.061\n95人非常的高佔了這個共諜案的60%所以現在我們也看到就是說不管是軍人也好或政府機關其實被滲透是非常嚴重的那本席要提到就是說其實上個禮拜就發生了這個\n\n07:25.244 --> 07:41.271\n國會助理被滲透的事情當然這事情也發生在我的前助理的身上我想請教就是調查局這裡我想你們跟蹤你們在跟蹤一個涉案人涉案人絕對不是一天兩天因為只是一年兩年是三年四年的時間可是\n\n07:44.612 --> 08:13.456\n各個辦公室其實在徵聘這個助理的時候其實看的也就是他的履歷我們從履歷上面根本看不到看不出來他曾經涉及什麼案子可是我在想國安單位應該是知道的這部分沒有辦法就是說你們在追蹤這個涉案人的時候可以給辦公室我想所有不管是執政黨也好在野黨也好面臨這種問題的時候當他應聘進來的助理其實有涉及這個國安問題有沒有辦法去做一個警示\n\n08:14.400 --> 08:33.251\n有沒有辦法給辦公室做一個警示跟委員報告因為這個涉及到刑事訴訟法有關偵查不公開的問題所以在市警就是說在案件執行之前提供這樣子的市警在法律上對我們來說是有限制的所以你們的做法會是什麼就是說靜觀其變嗎\n\n08:34.672 --> 08:50.072\n我們當然在希望能夠在最短的時間內把這個案件偵破那我們的目的其實是要瓦解是要瓦解他的這個危害的產生所以我們會用最快的方式然後盡最大的努力去對這個對象來做做調查\n\n08:53.243 --> 09:09.197\n所以因為最近也跟各個辦公室在討論之前大家就會覺得說這種完全釋而防不釋而防因為你們有辦案的這個方式那辦公室也不知情所以當然就是會在毫無知情的情況之下你可能就是應聘了可能就涉案的這個助理\n\n09:10.618 --> 09:31.239\n所以對辦公室未來可能就是在應聘助理的時候難道像尤其是我們是國防外交的委員就是每次在應聘助理的時候就要請示一下國安單位這個助理的背景嗎這有辦法做到嗎我想這個部分可能就是在特殊查核的部分有在讓他在健全\n\n09:32.841 --> 09:47.173\n的一個努力的空間目前我們有執行這個涉及到國家安全以及重大利益的這些公務人員的特殊查核不過他是正面表列的目前大概有1328個職位是必須要特殊查核\n\n09:50.876 --> 10:10.886\n但是1328不含國會助理那當然我們可能有些助理有些僱員他們可能不知道說這種涉及這個共諜滲透這個案子是多麼嚴重的一件事情所以我在想說是未來我們國安單位可以跟像政府機關也好或相關單位來做一個\n\n10:11.966 --> 10:23.525\n提供一個反滲透的一個課程針對這一個公務人員啊助理啊等等是是對我是想想說這個可能是要需要需要進行的啦這個部分可以是是OK好以上謝謝謝謝羅美玲\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.109,"end":13.147,"text":"謝謝主席 有請國安局蔡局長好 謝謝主席 各位很早"},{"start":15.999,"end":33.375,"text":"局長早 首先要跟局長探討的是這兩天全球的股災川普他的關稅政策造成全球的股市跌跌不休連同今天我想應該也是"},{"start":35.357,"end":49.353,"text":"當然台灣也沒有辦法倖免那川普他克正這個高關稅的理由除了說要迫使這個工業跟製造業回流到美國要重塑全球貿易跟產業的供應鏈之外那也要迫使這個貿易國呢"},{"start":54.518,"end":60.983,"text":"來重啟這個談判可是本席呢認為還有更重要的一點應該就是戰略盟友的這個重新的這個篩選那再來就是要強迫全球來做這個選邊站那當然針對這一題因為局長您是這個全球的戰略專家"},{"start":71.491,"end":86.064,"text":"所以本席可能待會很希望就聽到您的一些見解跟一些方向那當然美國這麼做他希望就是說迫使全球的這個貿易國來選邊站來消除這個模糊空間那希望就是能夠建立一個很明確的美國經濟安全的這個陣營"},{"start":88.306,"end":103.219,"text":"那今天呢我在國安局的這個夜報裡面也有看出來就是說國安局其實有點出來了與此同時呢其實中國呢他也是在加強推動跟像英國、日本、印度、南韓、澳洲等國的這個接觸來修補"},{"start":104.62,"end":130.919,"text":"跟這些國家的這些關係那再來呢他對這個歐洲日本南韓我們也看到就是說他跟38國呢當方面來開放這個免簽等等那這種種手段我們都看得出說其實中國呢未來是要來強化拉攏其他國家來對抗美國的這個這個手段那作為台灣覺得台灣非常的小可是呢我們卻是半導體產業的重中之重那在未來"},{"start":132.1,"end":139.483,"text":"美中兩強在經濟上也好政治上也好他們所推動的這個陣營重組呢那到底台灣要如何來自處台灣要如何來面對那當然面對這次的股災顧問其實很擔心我們會不會1930年代的這大蕭條那是不是會重新重演那面對這一局呢台灣對台灣來講到底是轉機還是危機所以局長你如何來看這一局"},{"start":158.989,"end":188.229,"text":"我想委員的問題是大概有三個部分第一個部分是川普關稅政策背後的動機第二部分是中共怎麼因應第三部分是台灣怎麼樣在過程當中有自我的經貿戰略的定位那就川普的動機來講我想委員剛剛的說明也非常的清楚他希望推動美國的再工業化那透過關稅的政策來使各國可以加大在美國的投資那讓美國這邊可以增加他的一個相關的一個就業率那他是有一個內外的一個"},{"start":189.45,"end":205.146,"text":"評估的一個考量在裡面那中共的部分我們剛剛也提到了他開始去拉攏透過這種所謂的笑臉攻勢來改善跟相關國家的一個關係那也希望透過這樣的一個過程能夠來特別強化他跟南方國家"},{"start":205.926,"end":235.349,"text":"全球南方國家彼此之間在經貿上的一個連結那後續我覺得可能在國際上要注意到的我剛也跟我們的媒體朋友說明一方面是美中之間的關稅戰會不會持續的升溫那第二部分是保護主義的浪潮會不會在國際經貿體系再現那第三個部分就有關於可能在整個新的一個發展過程當中會不會有雙邊跟多邊的FTA的倡議會有更多國家來提出來這也是要觀察的重點"},{"start":236.09,"end":253.529,"text":"就我國的一個本身的因應來講剛剛媒體朋友也在關注第一個部分我想我們提出來的並不是一個報復的措施我們提出來的是具體的解決方案所以總統也整合到我們的服務院的團隊有跟企業界包括高科技的產業以及傳統產業不斷地座談"},{"start":255.331,"end":270.181,"text":"來了解到這樣的關稅政策可能對我們產業產生的衝擊是什麼在了解之後再提出了相關的應應做法包括短期怎麼樣有一些應急的措施中長期也有一個比較長期的產業佈局來維持我們產業的競爭力那第二部分我剛也跟媒體說明"},{"start":271.802,"end":291.053,"text":"總統也指示我們要啟動我們的戰略溝通台美之間所以我們在週末的時候已經跟美方來表達我們對於進行關稅協商的一個立場還有一些提議那美方也由他們的白宮的資深官員對外證實台美已經有啟動這樣的一個溝通的機制那第三個部分是我們怎麼樣來"},{"start":293.074,"end":312.104,"text":"針對台美後續可能展開的關稅的協商來做準備那這部分總統跟府院團隊已經召開多非常非常多次的會議那包括怎麼樣來啟動所謂的零關稅的協商那以及來撤除所謂的非關稅的障礙那另外也涉及到怎麼樣來避免稀產地或加強這個所謂的"},{"start":315.703,"end":332.823,"text":"出口管制的一個機制那同時來加大對美的投資跟採購那大概我們的一個方案是還蠻完整的所以只要有機會可以啟動台美的關稅協商的話我相信雙方應該很容易就可以對焦那能夠有一些比較快的一個進展來推動這大概是我們初步的觀察"},{"start":333.383,"end":350.172,"text":"呃局長我們跟台美之間我們要啟動這個談判的這個時機啊那當然我昨天也看到媒體有報導就是說我們可能在排序上面不會是很前面我們可能會比較後面所以局長你認為這個部分呢因為我剛才有提到就是說我們作為這個半導體"},{"start":351.212,"end":360.258,"text":"的這個重中之重那當然我在想這部分我們跟美國的談判的這個時機點你認為說會是在什麼時候然後這個高關稅的這個這個波動到底會不會有一個以你的情節來講會不會有沒有一個時間點會在什麼時候收斂這個部分"},{"start":373.828,"end":395.561,"text":"在這部分來講我們所知道的因為現在有很多國家應該以美國官方的說法已經有七十幾個國家希望跟美國來進行相關的關稅協商就我們所知道的他們正在做蠻密集的開會在做必要的評估有一些比較優先的名單我們也是期待台灣可以很快的在優先名單當中讓雙方盡快來啟動相關的協商談判"},{"start":399.178,"end":408.656,"text":"OK 好 那這一題先到這裡因為我還有第二題我想要邀請的是我們調查局我們陳局長你也先留步喔"},{"start":413.072,"end":429.22,"text":"因為這個部分跟剛剛我們局長的報告也有關係就提到就是說有關這個共諜案剛剛局長的報告就是說從2020年開始到現在我們共諜案起訴人數總共有159人那其中的現役跟退役的軍人有"},{"start":430.241,"end":443.061,"text":"95人非常的高佔了這個共諜案的60%所以現在我們也看到就是說不管是軍人也好或政府機關其實被滲透是非常嚴重的那本席要提到就是說其實上個禮拜就發生了這個"},{"start":445.244,"end":461.271,"text":"國會助理被滲透的事情當然這事情也發生在我的前助理的身上我想請教就是調查局這裡我想你們跟蹤你們在跟蹤一個涉案人涉案人絕對不是一天兩天因為只是一年兩年是三年四年的時間可是"},{"start":464.612,"end":493.456,"text":"各個辦公室其實在徵聘這個助理的時候其實看的也就是他的履歷我們從履歷上面根本看不到看不出來他曾經涉及什麼案子可是我在想國安單位應該是知道的這部分沒有辦法就是說你們在追蹤這個涉案人的時候可以給辦公室我想所有不管是執政黨也好在野黨也好面臨這種問題的時候當他應聘進來的助理其實有涉及這個國安問題有沒有辦法去做一個警示"},{"start":494.4,"end":513.251,"text":"有沒有辦法給辦公室做一個警示跟委員報告因為這個涉及到刑事訴訟法有關偵查不公開的問題所以在市警就是說在案件執行之前提供這樣子的市警在法律上對我們來說是有限制的所以你們的做法會是什麼就是說靜觀其變嗎"},{"start":514.672,"end":530.072,"text":"我們當然在希望能夠在最短的時間內把這個案件偵破那我們的目的其實是要瓦解是要瓦解他的這個危害的產生所以我們會用最快的方式然後盡最大的努力去對這個對象來做做調查"},{"start":533.243,"end":549.197,"text":"所以因為最近也跟各個辦公室在討論之前大家就會覺得說這種完全釋而防不釋而防因為你們有辦案的這個方式那辦公室也不知情所以當然就是會在毫無知情的情況之下你可能就是應聘了可能就涉案的這個助理"},{"start":550.618,"end":571.239,"text":"所以對辦公室未來可能就是在應聘助理的時候難道像尤其是我們是國防外交的委員就是每次在應聘助理的時候就要請示一下國安單位這個助理的背景嗎這有辦法做到嗎我想這個部分可能就是在特殊查核的部分有在讓他在健全"},{"start":572.841,"end":587.173,"text":"的一個努力的空間目前我們有執行這個涉及到國家安全以及重大利益的這些公務人員的特殊查核不過他是正面表列的目前大概有1328個職位是必須要特殊查核"},{"start":590.876,"end":610.886,"text":"但是1328不含國會助理那當然我們可能有些助理有些僱員他們可能不知道說這種涉及這個共諜滲透這個案子是多麼嚴重的一件事情所以我在想說是未來我們國安單位可以跟像政府機關也好或相關單位來做一個"},{"start":611.966,"end":623.525,"text":"提供一個反滲透的一個課程針對這一個公務人員啊助理啊等等是是對我是想想說這個可能是要需要需要進行的啦這個部分可以是是OK好 以上謝謝謝謝羅美玲"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":235,"blocks":[["羅委員美玲：（9時38分）謝謝主席，有請國安局蔡局長。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝主席，羅委員早。"],["羅委員美玲：局長早。本席首先要跟局長探討的是這兩天全球的股災，川普的關稅政策造成全球股市跌跌不休，今天我想應該也是，當然臺灣也沒有辦法倖免。川普課徵高關稅的理由，除了要迫使工業跟製造業回流到美國，重塑全球貿易跟產業的供應鏈之外，也要迫使貿易國重啟談判，可是本席認為還有更重要的一點，應該就是戰略盟友的重新篩選，再來就是要強迫全球選邊站。針對這個議題，因為局長是全球的戰略專家，所以本席可能待會很希望聽到您的一些見解跟方向。美國這麼做就是希望迫使全球的貿易國選邊站，來消除模糊空間，希望能夠建立一個很明確的美國經濟安全陣營。今天我從國安局的業報裡也看出來，國安局其實有點出來了，與此同時，中國也在加強推動跟英國、日本、印度、南韓、澳洲等國的接觸，來修補跟這些國家的關係；再來他對歐洲、日本、南韓等38國單方面開放免簽等等，種種手段我們都看得出中國未來是要來強化拉攏其他國家以對抗美國，臺灣非常小，可是我們卻是半導體產業的重中之重，未來美中兩強在經濟上也好，政治上也好，他們所推動的陣營重組，到底臺灣要如何自處、臺灣要如何面對？面對這一次的股災，國人其實很擔心，1930年代的大蕭條是不是會重演？面對這一局，對臺灣來講到底是轉機還是危機？局長如何來看這一局？"],["蔡局長明彥：我想委員的問題，意思大概有三個部分，第一個部分是川普關稅政策背後的動機；第二個部分是中共怎麼因應；第三個部分是臺灣怎麼樣在過程當中有自我的經貿戰略定位？就川普的動機來講，我想委員剛剛的說明也非常清楚，他希望推動美國的再工業化，透過關稅政策使各國可以加大在美國的投資，讓美國可以增加相關的就業率，他是有一個內外評估的考量在內。","中共的部分，委員剛剛也提到了，他開始去拉攏，透過所謂的笑臉攻勢改善跟相關國家的關係，也希望透過這樣的過程，能夠特別強化他跟全球南方國家彼此之間在經貿上的連結。","後續我覺得可能在國際上要注意到的，我剛剛也跟媒體朋友說明：一方面是美中之間的關稅戰會不會持續升溫；第二個部分是保護主義的浪潮會不會在國際經貿體系再現；第三個部分，有關於在整個新的發展過程當中，會不會有雙邊跟多邊的FTA倡議，會有更多國家提出來，這也是要觀察的重點。","就我國本身的因應來講，剛剛媒體朋友也在關注。第一個部分，我想我們提出來的並不是一個報復措施，我們提出來的是具體解決方案。所以總統也整合我們府院的團隊，有跟企業界，包括高科技產業以及傳統產業不斷座談，了解這樣的關稅政策可能對我們產業產生的衝擊是什麼。了解之後，再提出相關的因應作法，包括短期怎麼樣有一些應急措施，中長期也有比較長期的產業布局來維持我們產業的競爭力。","第二個部分，我剛剛跟媒體說明，總統也指示我們要啟動臺美之間的戰略溝通，所以我們在週末的時候已經跟美方表達我們對於進行關稅協商的立場還有一些提議，美方也由他們白宮的資深官員對外證實，臺美已經有啟動這樣的一個溝通機制。","第三個部分，我們怎麼樣針對臺美後續可能展開的關稅協商做準備，這部分總統跟府院團隊已經召開非常非常多次會議，包括怎麼樣啟動所謂的零關稅協商，以及撤除所謂非關稅的障礙。另外也涉及到怎麼樣避免洗產地或加強所謂出口管制的一個機制，同時加大對美的投資跟採購。大概我們的方案是還滿完整的，所以假如有機會可以啟動臺美關稅協商的話，我相信雙方應該很容易就可以對焦，能夠有一些比較快的進展來推動，這大概是我們初步的觀察。"],["羅委員美玲：我們臺美之間要啟動談判的時機，我昨天也看到媒體報導，就是我們在排序上面可能不會很前面，我們可能會比較後面，所以局長您認為這個部分呢？我剛才提到，我們作為半導體的重中之重，我在想就這部分，我們跟美國談判的時機點，你認為會是在什麼時候？然後高關稅的這個波動，以你的情資來講，有沒有一個時間點、會在什麼時候收斂？"],["蔡局長明彥：這部分來講，我們所知道的，因為現在有很多國家，以美國官方的說法，已經有七十幾個國家希望跟美國進行相關的關稅協商。就我們所知道的，他們正在滿密集的開會，在做必要的評估，有一些比較優先的名單，那我們也是期待臺灣可以很快地在優先名單當中，讓雙方……"],["羅委員美玲：極力爭取當中。"],["蔡局長明彥：對，儘快啟動相關的協商談判。"],["羅委員美玲：好，這一題先到這裡。因為我還有第二題，我想要邀請的是調查局陳局長，蔡局長也先留步，因為這個部分跟剛剛局長的報告也有關係，就是有關共諜案。剛剛局長的報告是，從2020年開始到現在，我們共諜案起訴的人數總共有159人，其中現役跟退役的軍人有95人，比例非常高，占了共諜案60%。","現在我們也看到，不管是軍人也好或政府機關，其實被滲透是非常嚴重的。本席要提到，上個禮拜就發生了國會助理被滲透的事情，當然這個事情也發生在我的前助理身上。我想請教調查局，你們跟蹤一個涉案人絕對不是一天、兩天……"],["陳局長白立：是。"],["羅委員美玲：也許是一年、兩年……"],["陳局長白立：是。"],["羅委員美玲：3年、4年的時間，可是各個辦公室在徵聘助理的時候，其實看的也就是他的履歷，我們從履歷上面根本看不出來他曾經涉及什麼案子，可是我在想國安單位應該是知道的。這部分有沒有辦法就是你們在追蹤這個涉案人的時候可以給辦公室？我想所有不管是執政黨也好，在野黨也好，面臨這種問題的時候，當他應聘進來的助理其實有涉及國安問題，有沒有辦法做一個警示？有沒有辦法給辦公室做一個警示？"],["陳局長白立：跟委員報告，因為這個涉及到刑事訴訟法有關偵查不公開的問題，所以示警，就是在案件執行之前，提供這樣子的示警，在法律上對我們來說……"],["羅委員美玲：是不允許的？"],["陳局長白立：是有限制的，對。"],["羅委員美玲：那你們的作法會是什麼，就是靜觀其變嗎？"],["陳局長白立：我們當然希望能夠在最短的時間把案件偵破，我們的目的其實是要瓦解他這個危害的產生，所以會用最快的方式，盡最大努力對這個對象做調查。"],["羅委員美玲：因為最近也跟各個辦公室在討論，大家都會覺得這種完全是防不勝防，因為你們有辦案的方式，辦公室也不知情，所以當然就是會在毫無知情的情況之下，可能就是應聘了可能涉案的助理。所以對於辦公室，未來可能就是在應聘助理的時候，尤其是外交及國防委員會的委員，每次在應聘助理的時候，就要請示一下國安單位這個助理的背景嗎？這有辦法做到嗎？"],["陳局長白立：我想這個部分，可能就是在特殊查核的部分，有讓它再健全的一個努力空間，目前我們有執行涉及到國家安全以及重大利益的這些公務人員的特殊查核，不過它是正面表列的，目前大概有1,328個職位必須要特殊查核，但這1,328個不含國會助理。"],["羅委員美玲：當然，我們可能有些助理、有些雇員，他們可能不知道這種涉及共諜滲透的案子是多麼嚴重的一件事情，所以我在想是不是未來國安單位可以向政府機關也好，或者相關單位，提供反滲透的一個課程？"],["陳局長白立：是。"],["羅委員美玲：針對公務人員、助理等等。"],["陳局長白立：是。"],["羅委員美玲：我想這個可能是需要進行的。"],["陳局長白立：這個部分可以，是。"],["羅委員美玲：好，以上，謝謝。"],["陳局長白立：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝羅美玲委員上臺的質詢。","第2位是徐巧芯委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":60,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-6","speakers":["黃仁","羅美玲","徐巧芯","陳俊宇","陳冠廷","馬文君","王定宇","林楚茵","楊瓊瓔","沈伯洋","李坤城","王鴻薇","林憶君"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-04-09"],"gazette_id":"1143601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143601_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥率相關情報機關首長提出「國家情報工作暨國家安全局業務報告」，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143601_00001"}}}