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{\"word\": \"導\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,669 --> 00:00:23,599\n謝謝主席我們有請我們蔡局長好局長早副委員長局長我想針對我們這幾天大家關心的這個共諜滲透的問題來就教我們局長那因為最近\n\n2\n00:00:24,724 --> 00:00:37,640\n包括負責總統府的維安的憲兵,也有我們立法院國會助理等等因為洩漏內部的資料給中共而被逮捕或是判刑,連外國的媒體都報導說我們總統身旁出現共諜\n\n3\n00:00:44,048 --> 00:00:59,484\n但是這個供碟滲透並非新的問題國安團隊我們也有提出因應的相關作為但是這個滲透的層級為什麼會越來越高它所造成的漏洞\n\n4\n00:01:00,222 --> 00:01:28,323\n的這個核心問題到底在哪裡另外就是我們國安局對於這種潛伏其中的這種共諜我們有沒有什麼樣的一個防範的一個措施跟車委員最後說明就中共在對台進行這些在地協力者或共諜的部件他常常會蠻全面式的來篩選特定的一個目標那我們在夜報的內容也跟各位委員先進有說明到那像是軍中\n\n5\n00:01:28,803 --> 00:01:44,893\n他可能會鎖定一些重要的單位希望能夠來刺密取得相關的機敏的情訊有助於中共未來在對台進行軍事活動的時候有相關的軍事資訊來支撐那第二部分也會去接觸到一些重要的黨\n\n6\n00:01:45,754 --> 00:02:10,479\n政、人事或是我們剛剛有委員在關切的立法院的內部因為這些單位比較容易去接觸到政府和密的一些資料那假如我們在內部對於人員的安全查核的機制不夠健全的話自然就會產生委員所擔心的漏洞的問題那這是我了解到有些貴院的委員也在想要提出相關的一些法規能夠讓立法院這邊在\n\n7\n00:02:12,119 --> 00:02:40,598\n立委助理的部分能夠有一個安全查核的一個過程那很願意來提供我們國安單位的做法那像我們局裡面有180幾個職務都有類似列為合密查核的對象那在合密的過程當中又有分甲級以及丙級可以接觸到絕對機密及機密跟機密那所以假如能夠建立起這樣的一個合密接密的一個分類分級的管制的標準的話那可能在這部分的漏洞會比較減少一點\n\n8\n00:02:42,821 --> 00:02:47,550\n謝謝局長我建議就是我們在行政部門或是包括立法院的國會助理\n\n9\n00:02:49,195 --> 00:03:15,101\n我們在審核的部分是不是可以來研擬一套新的方式來提供給我們行政部門跟立法院的相關國會助理的審查避免剛剛講的這種情勢再發生我想這也是非常重要因為這些人都是涉及到非常多機敏的相關資料那也會是中共要滲透的一個\n\n10\n00:03:15,681 --> 00:03:37,950\n重點的一個對象所以我想說這是不是請局長跟我們同仁是不是在這個會後可以去研擬看看提高我們這個審查的這個方式來協助我們相關需要的這個部門能夠有一個比較嚴謹比較神秘的一個審查我們很願意分享我們的一些經驗給各單位來做參考\n\n11\n00:03:38,630 --> 00:04:06,729\n那另外我們管局有這個提到我們供碟滲透的手法分析報告那去年這個供碟案起訴了這個人數達到64人那在以2021年來看是4倍之多那進一步我們分析供碟的類型歸納出這個五大滲透管道及四大手法那今年所偵辦的案件起訴案件有15件主要的滲透手法跟對象\n\n12\n00:04:07,769 --> 00:04:20,717\n有無轉變那另外政府是不是能夠有效的來反制另外我們國安局是否可以再提高揭露的頻率以提升我們國人保防安全的相關意識\n\n13\n00:04:22,015 --> 00:04:41,681\n對,最後這一點揭露的部分,鄭如委員也注意到我們現在開始有這種所謂的專題的報告來針對這些涉及到國安的議題那透過一個比較完整的分析以及這些案件樣態的一個進入比較深層的討論來讓我們社會大眾更有這樣的一個保防為安的知覺\n\n14\n00:04:42,361 --> 00:04:56,756\n那能夠強化我們的相關的社會的韌性那另外一部分法制的強化也是非常的重要我在會議之前也跟媒體朋友做說明跟報告也就是說怎麼樣來看我們目前的法制有沒有哪些的漏洞可以強化的\n\n15\n00:04:57,697 --> 00:05:26,620\n因為中共在這個部分他們會去針對我們法制的不足的地方來進行一些所謂的人員的部署舉個例子像國安法我們國安法第二條只提到了發展組織罪有相關的刑責並沒有參與組織罪的刑責發展的人有事參與的人沒事那這就代表我們在法制上還有一些更精進的空間那這部分也跟法務部的政部長有在討論這一塊怎麼樣來做一些必要的修法那假如法案有送到貴院來希望委員可以大力的來支持\n\n16\n00:05:26,980 --> 00:05:53,919\n好,這部分再請我們管局這邊競訴來這個送審那另外就是我們中共這個軍演跟內部的整肅的相關問題我想還是就叫我們局長那在上週這個中共有進行這個海峽雷霆2025A的這個軍演那是在我們賴總統3月中宣布國安17條之後中共\n\n17\n00:05:55,901 --> 00:06:12,553\n實施的聯合戰備警巡之後再次發動重大的軍演我想請教局長他這個真正的目的是什麼以及他想釋放的訊息為何另外就是\n\n18\n00:06:13,053 --> 00:06:39,907\n中共藉由這次的軍演是不是在測試川普新政府及我們其他盟友的底線?是不是如此?事實上這次演習的時間點確實是比較特殊因為總統是在3月13號召開國安高層會議做了一些加強我們防制中共滲透的一些措施的宣布但是演習的時間是拖到了4月1號跟2號那一般來講假如是針對性的演習的話時間不會拖這麼長\n\n19\n00:06:42,288 --> 00:06:59,307\n所以我們在判斷上當然透過這個演習可以對台進行一些施壓這是演習的目的之一另外在那個時間點剛好是美國他們的國防部有一些情資被媒體報導認為說美國有一些相關的國防建制的計畫重點是在置中保台\n\n20\n00:06:59,767 --> 00:07:22,463\n那這種的一個國防政策計畫可能也讓中共有點希望能夠透過軍演來表達他們的一個基本的底線跟立場那特別那個時間點也是美國的國防部長到關島到了日本到了菲律賓訪問之後的隔一天來舉行演習所以這次演習應該還是有對美國印太戰略進行反制佈局的一個效果第三個面向是中共內部的問題\n\n21\n00:07:23,664 --> 00:07:44,752\n因為目前中共正在進行一些軍中將領的整肅那委員不知道有沒有注意到那被整肅的很多都是東部戰區或是有31集團軍背景的這些將領那在整肅的過程當中透過這種軍事的演訓的話也可以來讓解放軍的部隊更專注在戰訓而不要去因為的\n\n22\n00:07:45,652 --> 00:08:03,431\n這些政治的整肅而去動搖到他的軍心那另一方面在整肅過程當中透過軍演他也可以讓外界來展示說即使內部有這麼多的問題他還是有一定的戰力可以來對外來呈現所以我們大概是從這三個層次來跟委員報告可能這一次中共軍演背後的戰略的盤算跟動機\n\n23\n00:08:04,212 --> 00:08:27,620\n好,那我接著問那個請教我們局長,就剛剛講的中共進來就在整肅嘛,那對於他整肅的對象包括這個中央軍委的副主席這個何惠東還有東部戰區的司令林向陽,那他這個部分是不是因為他們有涉入這個洩漏對台的相關作戰計畫而遭到這個整肅?\n\n24\n00:08:28,500 --> 00:08:47,066\n對目前確實有各種的說法這是其中的一種說法那有的也是涉及到可能有貪腐的問題那也有人認為說可能是對習近平的忠誠度遭到質疑那這部分的資訊非常的分雜那因為事件也還在整肅的進行過程當中我們會持續來注意到底什麼才是真正的原因好\n\n25\n00:08:47,566 --> 00:09:13,196\n另外我想請教局長就是我們從去年的這個聯合力艦還有今年的這個海峽雷霆他所釋出的相關這個宣傳的短影片內容裡面有秀出一張台灣地圖他鎖定台北市台中高雄還有花蓮縣為四個紅心的這個目標那另外當然還有其他五個未標注地點包括宜蘭縣的這個地點在演習的代號的轉變上\n\n26\n00:09:17,297 --> 00:09:37,250\n他所釋出的這個短片中鎖定特定的縣市有無特殊的這個政治或是軍事的意涵我們覺得他有他政治的意涵在那中共他現在在進行對台的一些演訓的動作常常會有一些徵訊的操作而現在徵訊的操作比較常看到的是有影片跟圖卡\n\n27\n00:09:38,010 --> 00:09:51,557\n那利用這種影片跟圖卡的一個操作來凸顯到好像台灣已經兵兇戰危讓我們的民眾感受到這種危機感那我想這一些演習過程當中的證訊操作也是本局在\n\n28\n00:09:53,458 --> 00:10:17,846\n觀察演習過程當中中共動作裡面非常重要的一環所以在今天的夜報當中我們也是除了說明中共對台的武力脅迫以外又針對偵訊的部分去說明到我們怎麼樣透過我們的自動查找的系統來掌握它散佈的一個網絡那以及怎麼樣運用AI的技術來製造這些圖卡或是影音來影響國人的相關的認知這是我們的關注重點謝謝委員提醒\n\n29\n00:10:18,186 --> 00:10:39,052\n好那就下個月下個月就是我們這個總統就職週年了那共軍是不是有可能進行更大規模的這個行動我們這個國安局有沒有掌握相關的事情對我們會來注意因為現在中共的相關的演習也跟委員報告說明它這些演習有很多也是把它例行性的演習給拼湊在一起是\n\n30\n00:10:39,512 --> 00:10:57,208\n對以剛剛委員提到4月1號、2號的海峽雷霆2025A我們就注意到了它有結合到北部戰區的遠海長航跟山東艦的遠海長航那以及相關例行性的聯合戰備警巡把它拼湊在一起變成是一個所謂的對台的正對性的演習\n\n31\n00:10:57,788 --> 00:11:25,564\n那再配合到徵訊的操作來造成國人的一種恐慌那這種的演習它要啟動會非常的快那我們也會配合到我們國安單位跟國防部來發揮我們國軍聯合情監偵的系統來盡可能的預先來掌握相關的動態不過跟委員說明的是一般的船艦它要有相關活動的話一定都會要有一個時間來動員船隻那一般它開始動員我們大概都可以有相當程度的掌握\n\n32\n00:11:26,524 --> 00:11:53,838\n最後一個問題我想請教局長,中共在上個月有舉辦兩會,全國人民代表大會及中國人民政治協商的會議,是不是會借機加大力道來操作新一波對台的這種錯假的認知攻勢,來藉此深化台灣內部的矛盾問題?\n\n33\n00:11:54,762 --> 00:12:21,850\n對他的兩會委員提到的很重要也是有趣的問題我們有發現到他的基調幾乎都沒有變近年兩會都延續到過去的基調也就是反讀觸統觸容那也跟委員說明我們曾經用AI的系統在兩會召開之前用AI的系統去預測今年兩會的政府工作報告對台的部分它的用語會是什麼跟委員說明的是我們事前兩會之前AI系統預測的內容跟後來出來的結果\n\n34\n00:12:24,491 --> 00:12:43,272\n都一樣85%那就代表說他一直在延續他既有的政策立場不是說AI技術很先進可以預測的準確而是中共的立場幾乎都一致強調所謂的反毒觸統出籠好謝謝局長那期待我們國安局一起來守護國安局好謝謝陳委員的指導謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n669\t23599\t謝謝主席 我們有請我們蔡局長好 局長 早副委員長局長 我想針對我們這幾天大家關心的這個共諜滲透的問題來就教我們局長那因為最近\n24724\t37640\t包括負責總統府的維安的憲兵,也有我們立法院國會助理等等因為洩漏內部的資料給中共而被逮捕或是判刑,連外國的媒體都報導說我們總統身旁出現共諜\n44048\t59484\t但是這個供碟滲透並非新的問題國安團隊我們也有提出因應的相關作為但是這個滲透的層級為什麼會越來越高它所造成的漏洞\n60222\t88323\t的這個核心問題到底在哪裡另外就是我們國安局對於這種潛伏其中的這種共諜我們有沒有什麼樣的一個防範的一個措施跟車委員最後說明就中共在對台進行這些在地協力者或共諜的部件他常常會蠻全面式的來篩選特定的一個目標那我們在夜報的內容也跟各位委員先進有說明到那像是軍中\n88803\t104893\t他可能會鎖定一些重要的單位希望能夠來刺密取得相關的機敏的情訊有助於中共未來在對台進行軍事活動的時候有相關的軍事資訊來支撐那第二部分也會去接觸到一些重要的黨\n105754\t130479\t政、人事或是我們剛剛有委員在關切的立法院的內部因為這些單位比較容易去接觸到政府和密的一些資料那假如我們在內部對於人員的安全查核的機制不夠健全的話自然就會產生委員所擔心的漏洞的問題那這是我了解到有些貴院的委員也在想要提出相關的一些法規能夠讓立法院這邊在\n132119\t160598\t立委助理的部分能夠有一個安全查核的一個過程那很願意來提供我們國安單位的做法那像我們局裡面有180幾個職務都有類似列為合密查核的對象那在合密的過程當中又有分甲級以及丙級可以接觸到絕對機密及機密跟機密那所以假如能夠建立起這樣的一個合密接密的一個分類分級的管制的標準的話那可能在這部分的漏洞會比較減少一點\n162821\t167550\t謝謝局長我建議就是我們在行政部門或是包括立法院的國會助理\n169195\t195101\t我們在審核的部分是不是可以來研擬一套新的方式來提供給我們行政部門跟立法院的相關國會助理的審查避免剛剛講的這種情勢再發生我想這也是非常重要因為這些人都是涉及到非常多機敏的相關資料那也會是中共要滲透的一個\n195681\t217950\t重點的一個對象所以我想說這是不是請局長跟我們同仁是不是在這個會後可以去研擬看看提高我們這個審查的這個方式來協助我們相關需要的這個部門能夠有一個比較嚴謹比較神秘的一個審查我們很願意分享我們的一些經驗給各單位來做參考\n218630\t246729\t那另外我們管局有這個提到我們供碟滲透的手法分析報告那去年這個供碟案起訴了這個人數達到64人那在以2021年來看是4倍之多那進一步我們分析供碟的類型歸納出這個五大滲透管道及四大手法那今年所偵辦的案件起訴案件有15件主要的滲透手法跟對象\n247769\t260717\t有無轉變那另外政府是不是能夠有效的來反制另外我們國安局是否可以再提高揭露的頻率以提升我們國人保防安全的相關意識\n262015\t281681\t對,最後這一點揭露的部分,鄭如委員也注意到我們現在開始有這種所謂的專題的報告來針對這些涉及到國安的議題那透過一個比較完整的分析以及這些案件樣態的一個進入比較深層的討論來讓我們社會大眾更有這樣的一個保防為安的知覺\n282361\t296756\t那能夠強化我們的相關的社會的韌性那另外一部分法制的強化也是非常的重要我在會議之前也跟媒體朋友做說明跟報告也就是說怎麼樣來看我們目前的法制有沒有哪些的漏洞可以強化的\n297697\t326620\t因為中共在這個部分他們會去針對我們法制的不足的地方來進行一些所謂的人員的部署舉個例子像國安法我們國安法第二條只提到了發展組織罪有相關的刑責並沒有參與組織罪的刑責發展的人有事參與的人沒事那這就代表我們在法制上還有一些更精進的空間那這部分也跟法務部的政部長有在討論這一塊怎麼樣來做一些必要的修法那假如法案有送到貴院來希望委員可以大力的來支持\n326980\t353919\t好,這部分再請我們管局這邊競訴來這個送審那另外就是我們中共這個軍演跟內部的整肅的相關問題我想還是就叫我們局長那在上週這個中共有進行這個海峽雷霆2025A的這個軍演那是在我們賴總統3月中宣布國安17條之後中共\n355901\t372553\t實施的聯合戰備警巡之後再次發動重大的軍演我想請教局長他這個真正的目的是什麼以及他想釋放的訊息為何另外就是\n373053\t399907\t中共藉由這次的軍演是不是在測試川普新政府及我們其他盟友的底線?是不是如此?事實上這次演習的時間點確實是比較特殊因為總統是在3月13號召開國安高層會議做了一些加強我們防制中共滲透的一些措施的宣布但是演習的時間是拖到了4月1號跟2號那一般來講假如是針對性的演習的話時間不會拖這麼長\n402288\t419307\t所以我們在判斷上當然透過這個演習可以對台進行一些施壓這是演習的目的之一另外在那個時間點剛好是美國他們的國防部有一些情資被媒體報導認為說美國有一些相關的國防建制的計畫重點是在置中保台\n419767\t442463\t那這種的一個國防政策計畫可能也讓中共有點希望能夠透過軍演來表達他們的一個基本的底線跟立場那特別那個時間點也是美國的國防部長到關島到了日本到了菲律賓訪問之後的隔一天來舉行演習所以這次演習應該還是有對美國印太戰略進行反制佈局的一個效果第三個面向是中共內部的問題\n443664\t464752\t因為目前中共正在進行一些軍中將領的整肅那委員不知道有沒有注意到那被整肅的很多都是東部戰區或是有31集團軍背景的這些將領那在整肅的過程當中透過這種軍事的演訓的話也可以來讓解放軍的部隊更專注在戰訓而不要去因為的\n465652\t483431\t這些政治的整肅而去動搖到他的軍心那另一方面在整肅過程當中透過軍演他也可以讓外界來展示說即使內部有這麼多的問題他還是有一定的戰力可以來對外來呈現所以我們大概是從這三個層次來跟委員報告可能這一次中共軍演背後的戰略的盤算跟動機\n484212\t507620\t好,那我接著問那個請教我們局長,就剛剛講的中共進來就在整肅嘛,那對於他整肅的對象包括這個中央軍委的副主席這個何惠東還有東部戰區的司令林向陽,那他這個部分是不是因為他們有涉入這個洩漏對台的相關作戰計畫而遭到這個整肅?\n508500\t527066\t對 目前確實有各種的說法這是其中的一種說法那有的也是涉及到可能有貪腐的問題那也有人認為說可能是對習近平的忠誠度遭到質疑那這部分的資訊非常的分雜那因為事件也還在整肅的進行過程當中我們會持續來注意到底什麼才是真正的原因好\n527566\t553196\t另外我想請教局長就是我們從去年的這個聯合力艦還有今年的這個海峽雷霆他所釋出的相關這個宣傳的短影片內容裡面有秀出一張台灣地圖他鎖定台北市台中高雄還有花蓮縣為四個紅心的這個目標那另外當然還有其他五個未標注地點包括宜蘭縣的這個地點在演習的代號的轉變上\n557297\t577250\t他所釋出的這個短片中鎖定特定的縣市有無特殊的這個政治或是軍事的意涵我們覺得他有他政治的意涵在那中共他現在在進行對台的一些演訓的動作常常會有一些徵訊的操作而現在徵訊的操作比較常看到的是有影片跟圖卡\n578010\t591557\t那利用這種影片跟圖卡的一個操作來凸顯到好像台灣已經兵兇戰危讓我們的民眾感受到這種危機感那我想這一些演習過程當中的證訊操作也是本局在\n593458\t617846\t觀察演習過程當中中共動作裡面非常重要的一環所以在今天的夜報當中我們也是除了說明中共對台的武力脅迫以外又針對偵訊的部分去說明到我們怎麼樣透過我們的自動查找的系統來掌握它散佈的一個網絡那以及怎麼樣運用AI的技術來製造這些圖卡或是影音來影響國人的相關的認知這是我們的關注重點謝謝委員提醒\n618186\t639052\t好 那就下個月下個月就是我們這個總統就職週年了那共軍是不是有可能進行更大規模的這個行動我們這個國安局有沒有掌握相關的事情對 我們會來注意因為現在中共的相關的演習也跟委員報告說明它這些演習有很多也是把它例行性的演習給拼湊在一起是\n639512\t657208\t對 以剛剛委員提到4月1號、2號的海峽雷霆2025A我們就注意到了它有結合到北部戰區的遠海長航跟山東艦的遠海長航那以及相關例行性的聯合戰備警巡把它拼湊在一起變成是一個所謂的對台的正對性的演習\n657788\t685564\t那再配合到徵訊的操作來造成國人的一種恐慌那這種的演習它要啟動會非常的快那我們也會配合到我們國安單位跟國防部來發揮我們國軍聯合情監偵的系統來盡可能的預先來掌握相關的動態不過跟委員說明的是一般的船艦它要有相關活動的話一定都會要有一個時間來動員船隻那一般它開始動員我們大概都可以有相當程度的掌握\n686524\t713838\t最後一個問題我想請教局長,中共在上個月有舉辦兩會,全國人民代表大會及中國人民政治協商的會議,是不是會借機加大力道來操作新一波對台的這種錯假的認知攻勢,來藉此深化台灣內部的矛盾問題?\n714762\t741850\t對他的兩會委員提到的很重要也是有趣的問題我們有發現到他的基調幾乎都沒有變近年兩會都延續到過去的基調也就是反讀觸統觸容那也跟委員說明我們曾經用AI的系統在兩會召開之前用AI的系統去預測今年兩會的政府工作報告對台的部分它的用語會是什麼跟委員說明的是我們事前兩會之前AI系統預測的內容跟後來出來的結果\n744491\t763272\t都一樣85%那就代表說他一直在延續他既有的政策立場不是說AI技術很先進可以預測的準確而是中共的立場幾乎都一致強調所謂的反毒觸統出籠好 謝謝局長那期待我們國安局一起來守護國安局好 謝謝陳委員的指導 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們有請我們蔡局長好 局長 早副委員長局長 我想針對我們這幾天大家關心的這個共諜滲透的問題來就教我們局長那因為最近\n包括負責總統府的維安的憲兵,也有我們立法院國會助理等等因為洩漏內部的資料給中共而被逮捕或是判刑,連外國的媒體都報導說我們總統身旁出現共諜\n但是這個供碟滲透並非新的問題國安團隊我們也有提出因應的相關作為但是這個滲透的層級為什麼會越來越高它所造成的漏洞\n的這個核心問題到底在哪裡另外就是我們國安局對於這種潛伏其中的這種共諜我們有沒有什麼樣的一個防範的一個措施跟車委員最後說明就中共在對台進行這些在地協力者或共諜的部件他常常會蠻全面式的來篩選特定的一個目標那我們在夜報的內容也跟各位委員先進有說明到那像是軍中\n他可能會鎖定一些重要的單位希望能夠來刺密取得相關的機敏的情訊有助於中共未來在對台進行軍事活動的時候有相關的軍事資訊來支撐那第二部分也會去接觸到一些重要的黨\n政、人事或是我們剛剛有委員在關切的立法院的內部因為這些單位比較容易去接觸到政府和密的一些資料那假如我們在內部對於人員的安全查核的機制不夠健全的話自然就會產生委員所擔心的漏洞的問題那這是我了解到有些貴院的委員也在想要提出相關的一些法規能夠讓立法院這邊在\n立委助理的部分能夠有一個安全查核的一個過程那很願意來提供我們國安單位的做法那像我們局裡面有180幾個職務都有類似列為合密查核的對象那在合密的過程當中又有分甲級以及丙級可以接觸到絕對機密及機密跟機密那所以假如能夠建立起這樣的一個合密接密的一個分類分級的管制的標準的話那可能在這部分的漏洞會比較減少一點\n謝謝局長我建議就是我們在行政部門或是包括立法院的國會助理\n我們在審核的部分是不是可以來研擬一套新的方式來提供給我們行政部門跟立法院的相關國會助理的審查避免剛剛講的這種情勢再發生我想這也是非常重要因為這些人都是涉及到非常多機敏的相關資料那也會是中共要滲透的一個\n重點的一個對象所以我想說這是不是請局長跟我們同仁是不是在這個會後可以去研擬看看提高我們這個審查的這個方式來協助我們相關需要的這個部門能夠有一個比較嚴謹比較神秘的一個審查我們很願意分享我們的一些經驗給各單位來做參考\n那另外我們管局有這個提到我們供碟滲透的手法分析報告那去年這個供碟案起訴了這個人數達到64人那在以2021年來看是4倍之多那進一步我們分析供碟的類型歸納出這個五大滲透管道及四大手法那今年所偵辦的案件起訴案件有15件主要的滲透手法跟對象\n有無轉變那另外政府是不是能夠有效的來反制另外我們國安局是否可以再提高揭露的頻率以提升我們國人保防安全的相關意識\n對,最後這一點揭露的部分,鄭如委員也注意到我們現在開始有這種所謂的專題的報告來針對這些涉及到國安的議題那透過一個比較完整的分析以及這些案件樣態的一個進入比較深層的討論來讓我們社會大眾更有這樣的一個保防為安的知覺\n那能夠強化我們的相關的社會的韌性那另外一部分法制的強化也是非常的重要我在會議之前也跟媒體朋友做說明跟報告也就是說怎麼樣來看我們目前的法制有沒有哪些的漏洞可以強化的\n因為中共在這個部分他們會去針對我們法制的不足的地方來進行一些所謂的人員的部署舉個例子像國安法我們國安法第二條只提到了發展組織罪有相關的刑責並沒有參與組織罪的刑責發展的人有事參與的人沒事那這就代表我們在法制上還有一些更精進的空間那這部分也跟法務部的政部長有在討論這一塊怎麼樣來做一些必要的修法那假如法案有送到貴院來希望委員可以大力的來支持\n好,這部分再請我們管局這邊競訴來這個送審那另外就是我們中共這個軍演跟內部的整肅的相關問題我想還是就叫我們局長那在上週這個中共有進行這個海峽雷霆2025A的這個軍演那是在我們賴總統3月中宣布國安17條之後中共\n實施的聯合戰備警巡之後再次發動重大的軍演我想請教局長他這個真正的目的是什麼以及他想釋放的訊息為何另外就是\n中共藉由這次的軍演是不是在測試川普新政府及我們其他盟友的底線?是不是如此?事實上這次演習的時間點確實是比較特殊因為總統是在3月13號召開國安高層會議做了一些加強我們防制中共滲透的一些措施的宣布但是演習的時間是拖到了4月1號跟2號那一般來講假如是針對性的演習的話時間不會拖這麼長\n所以我們在判斷上當然透過這個演習可以對台進行一些施壓這是演習的目的之一另外在那個時間點剛好是美國他們的國防部有一些情資被媒體報導認為說美國有一些相關的國防建制的計畫重點是在置中保台\n那這種的一個國防政策計畫可能也讓中共有點希望能夠透過軍演來表達他們的一個基本的底線跟立場那特別那個時間點也是美國的國防部長到關島到了日本到了菲律賓訪問之後的隔一天來舉行演習所以這次演習應該還是有對美國印太戰略進行反制佈局的一個效果第三個面向是中共內部的問題\n因為目前中共正在進行一些軍中將領的整肅那委員不知道有沒有注意到那被整肅的很多都是東部戰區或是有31集團軍背景的這些將領那在整肅的過程當中透過這種軍事的演訓的話也可以來讓解放軍的部隊更專注在戰訓而不要去因為的\n這些政治的整肅而去動搖到他的軍心那另一方面在整肅過程當中透過軍演他也可以讓外界來展示說即使內部有這麼多的問題他還是有一定的戰力可以來對外來呈現所以我們大概是從這三個層次來跟委員報告可能這一次中共軍演背後的戰略的盤算跟動機\n好,那我接著問那個請教我們局長,就剛剛講的中共進來就在整肅嘛,那對於他整肅的對象包括這個中央軍委的副主席這個何惠東還有東部戰區的司令林向陽,那他這個部分是不是因為他們有涉入這個洩漏對台的相關作戰計畫而遭到這個整肅?\n對 目前確實有各種的說法這是其中的一種說法那有的也是涉及到可能有貪腐的問題那也有人認為說可能是對習近平的忠誠度遭到質疑那這部分的資訊非常的分雜那因為事件也還在整肅的進行過程當中我們會持續來注意到底什麼才是真正的原因好\n另外我想請教局長就是我們從去年的這個聯合力艦還有今年的這個海峽雷霆他所釋出的相關這個宣傳的短影片內容裡面有秀出一張台灣地圖他鎖定台北市台中高雄還有花蓮縣為四個紅心的這個目標那另外當然還有其他五個未標注地點包括宜蘭縣的這個地點在演習的代號的轉變上\n他所釋出的這個短片中鎖定特定的縣市有無特殊的這個政治或是軍事的意涵我們覺得他有他政治的意涵在那中共他現在在進行對台的一些演訓的動作常常會有一些徵訊的操作而現在徵訊的操作比較常看到的是有影片跟圖卡\n那利用這種影片跟圖卡的一個操作來凸顯到好像台灣已經兵兇戰危讓我們的民眾感受到這種危機感那我想這一些演習過程當中的證訊操作也是本局在\n觀察演習過程當中中共動作裡面非常重要的一環所以在今天的夜報當中我們也是除了說明中共對台的武力脅迫以外又針對偵訊的部分去說明到我們怎麼樣透過我們的自動查找的系統來掌握它散佈的一個網絡那以及怎麼樣運用AI的技術來製造這些圖卡或是影音來影響國人的相關的認知這是我們的關注重點謝謝委員提醒\n好 那就下個月下個月就是我們這個總統就職週年了那共軍是不是有可能進行更大規模的這個行動我們這個國安局有沒有掌握相關的事情對 我們會來注意因為現在中共的相關的演習也跟委員報告說明它這些演習有很多也是把它例行性的演習給拼湊在一起是\n對 以剛剛委員提到4月1號、2號的海峽雷霆2025A我們就注意到了它有結合到北部戰區的遠海長航跟山東艦的遠海長航那以及相關例行性的聯合戰備警巡把它拼湊在一起變成是一個所謂的對台的正對性的演習\n那再配合到徵訊的操作來造成國人的一種恐慌那這種的演習它要啟動會非常的快那我們也會配合到我們國安單位跟國防部來發揮我們國軍聯合情監偵的系統來盡可能的預先來掌握相關的動態不過跟委員說明的是一般的船艦它要有相關活動的話一定都會要有一個時間來動員船隻那一般它開始動員我們大概都可以有相當程度的掌握\n最後一個問題我想請教局長,中共在上個月有舉辦兩會,全國人民代表大會及中國人民政治協商的會議,是不是會借機加大力道來操作新一波對台的這種錯假的認知攻勢,來藉此深化台灣內部的矛盾問題?\n對他的兩會委員提到的很重要也是有趣的問題我們有發現到他的基調幾乎都沒有變近年兩會都延續到過去的基調也就是反讀觸統觸容那也跟委員說明我們曾經用AI的系統在兩會召開之前用AI的系統去預測今年兩會的政府工作報告對台的部分它的用語會是什麼跟委員說明的是我們事前兩會之前AI系統預測的內容跟後來出來的結果\n都一樣85%那就代表說他一直在延續他既有的政策立場不是說AI技術很先進可以預測的準確而是中共的立場幾乎都一致強調所謂的反毒觸統出籠好 謝謝局長那期待我們國安局一起來守護國安局好 謝謝陳委員的指導 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.669 --> 00:23.599\n謝謝主席我們有請我們蔡局長好局長早副委員長局長我想針對我們這幾天大家關心的這個共諜滲透的問題來就教我們局長那因為最近\n\n00:24.724 --> 00:37.640\n包括負責總統府的維安的憲兵,也有我們立法院國會助理等等因為洩漏內部的資料給中共而被逮捕或是判刑,連外國的媒體都報導說我們總統身旁出現共諜\n\n00:44.048 --> 00:59.484\n但是這個供碟滲透並非新的問題國安團隊我們也有提出因應的相關作為但是這個滲透的層級為什麼會越來越高它所造成的漏洞\n\n01:00.222 --> 01:28.323\n的這個核心問題到底在哪裡另外就是我們國安局對於這種潛伏其中的這種共諜我們有沒有什麼樣的一個防範的一個措施跟車委員最後說明就中共在對台進行這些在地協力者或共諜的部件他常常會蠻全面式的來篩選特定的一個目標那我們在夜報的內容也跟各位委員先進有說明到那像是軍中\n\n01:28.803 --> 01:44.893\n他可能會鎖定一些重要的單位希望能夠來刺密取得相關的機敏的情訊有助於中共未來在對台進行軍事活動的時候有相關的軍事資訊來支撐那第二部分也會去接觸到一些重要的黨\n\n01:45.754 --> 02:10.479\n政、人事或是我們剛剛有委員在關切的立法院的內部因為這些單位比較容易去接觸到政府和密的一些資料那假如我們在內部對於人員的安全查核的機制不夠健全的話自然就會產生委員所擔心的漏洞的問題那這是我了解到有些貴院的委員也在想要提出相關的一些法規能夠讓立法院這邊在\n\n02:12.119 --> 02:40.598\n立委助理的部分能夠有一個安全查核的一個過程那很願意來提供我們國安單位的做法那像我們局裡面有180幾個職務都有類似列為合密查核的對象那在合密的過程當中又有分甲級以及丙級可以接觸到絕對機密及機密跟機密那所以假如能夠建立起這樣的一個合密接密的一個分類分級的管制的標準的話那可能在這部分的漏洞會比較減少一點\n\n02:42.821 --> 02:47.550\n謝謝局長我建議就是我們在行政部門或是包括立法院的國會助理\n\n02:49.195 --> 03:15.101\n我們在審核的部分是不是可以來研擬一套新的方式來提供給我們行政部門跟立法院的相關國會助理的審查避免剛剛講的這種情勢再發生我想這也是非常重要因為這些人都是涉及到非常多機敏的相關資料那也會是中共要滲透的一個\n\n03:15.681 --> 03:37.950\n重點的一個對象所以我想說這是不是請局長跟我們同仁是不是在這個會後可以去研擬看看提高我們這個審查的這個方式來協助我們相關需要的這個部門能夠有一個比較嚴謹比較神秘的一個審查我們很願意分享我們的一些經驗給各單位來做參考\n\n03:38.630 --> 04:06.729\n那另外我們管局有這個提到我們供碟滲透的手法分析報告那去年這個供碟案起訴了這個人數達到64人那在以2021年來看是4倍之多那進一步我們分析供碟的類型歸納出這個五大滲透管道及四大手法那今年所偵辦的案件起訴案件有15件主要的滲透手法跟對象\n\n04:07.769 --> 04:20.717\n有無轉變那另外政府是不是能夠有效的來反制另外我們國安局是否可以再提高揭露的頻率以提升我們國人保防安全的相關意識\n\n04:22.015 --> 04:41.681\n對,最後這一點揭露的部分,鄭如委員也注意到我們現在開始有這種所謂的專題的報告來針對這些涉及到國安的議題那透過一個比較完整的分析以及這些案件樣態的一個進入比較深層的討論來讓我們社會大眾更有這樣的一個保防為安的知覺\n\n04:42.361 --> 04:56.756\n那能夠強化我們的相關的社會的韌性那另外一部分法制的強化也是非常的重要我在會議之前也跟媒體朋友做說明跟報告也就是說怎麼樣來看我們目前的法制有沒有哪些的漏洞可以強化的\n\n04:57.697 --> 05:26.620\n因為中共在這個部分他們會去針對我們法制的不足的地方來進行一些所謂的人員的部署舉個例子像國安法我們國安法第二條只提到了發展組織罪有相關的刑責並沒有參與組織罪的刑責發展的人有事參與的人沒事那這就代表我們在法制上還有一些更精進的空間那這部分也跟法務部的政部長有在討論這一塊怎麼樣來做一些必要的修法那假如法案有送到貴院來希望委員可以大力的來支持\n\n05:26.980 --> 05:53.919\n好,這部分再請我們管局這邊競訴來這個送審那另外就是我們中共這個軍演跟內部的整肅的相關問題我想還是就叫我們局長那在上週這個中共有進行這個海峽雷霆2025A的這個軍演那是在我們賴總統3月中宣布國安17條之後中共\n\n05:55.901 --> 06:12.553\n實施的聯合戰備警巡之後再次發動重大的軍演我想請教局長他這個真正的目的是什麼以及他想釋放的訊息為何另外就是\n\n06:13.053 --> 06:39.907\n中共藉由這次的軍演是不是在測試川普新政府及我們其他盟友的底線?是不是如此?事實上這次演習的時間點確實是比較特殊因為總統是在3月13號召開國安高層會議做了一些加強我們防制中共滲透的一些措施的宣布但是演習的時間是拖到了4月1號跟2號那一般來講假如是針對性的演習的話時間不會拖這麼長\n\n06:42.288 --> 06:59.307\n所以我們在判斷上當然透過這個演習可以對台進行一些施壓這是演習的目的之一另外在那個時間點剛好是美國他們的國防部有一些情資被媒體報導認為說美國有一些相關的國防建制的計畫重點是在置中保台\n\n06:59.767 --> 07:22.463\n那這種的一個國防政策計畫可能也讓中共有點希望能夠透過軍演來表達他們的一個基本的底線跟立場那特別那個時間點也是美國的國防部長到關島到了日本到了菲律賓訪問之後的隔一天來舉行演習所以這次演習應該還是有對美國印太戰略進行反制佈局的一個效果第三個面向是中共內部的問題\n\n07:23.664 --> 07:44.752\n因為目前中共正在進行一些軍中將領的整肅那委員不知道有沒有注意到那被整肅的很多都是東部戰區或是有31集團軍背景的這些將領那在整肅的過程當中透過這種軍事的演訓的話也可以來讓解放軍的部隊更專注在戰訓而不要去因為的\n\n07:45.652 --> 08:03.431\n這些政治的整肅而去動搖到他的軍心那另一方面在整肅過程當中透過軍演他也可以讓外界來展示說即使內部有這麼多的問題他還是有一定的戰力可以來對外來呈現所以我們大概是從這三個層次來跟委員報告可能這一次中共軍演背後的戰略的盤算跟動機\n\n08:04.212 --> 08:27.620\n好,那我接著問那個請教我們局長,就剛剛講的中共進來就在整肅嘛,那對於他整肅的對象包括這個中央軍委的副主席這個何惠東還有東部戰區的司令林向陽,那他這個部分是不是因為他們有涉入這個洩漏對台的相關作戰計畫而遭到這個整肅?\n\n08:28.500 --> 08:47.066\n對目前確實有各種的說法這是其中的一種說法那有的也是涉及到可能有貪腐的問題那也有人認為說可能是對習近平的忠誠度遭到質疑那這部分的資訊非常的分雜那因為事件也還在整肅的進行過程當中我們會持續來注意到底什麼才是真正的原因好\n\n08:47.566 --> 09:13.196\n另外我想請教局長就是我們從去年的這個聯合力艦還有今年的這個海峽雷霆他所釋出的相關這個宣傳的短影片內容裡面有秀出一張台灣地圖他鎖定台北市台中高雄還有花蓮縣為四個紅心的這個目標那另外當然還有其他五個未標注地點包括宜蘭縣的這個地點在演習的代號的轉變上\n\n09:17.297 --> 09:37.250\n他所釋出的這個短片中鎖定特定的縣市有無特殊的這個政治或是軍事的意涵我們覺得他有他政治的意涵在那中共他現在在進行對台的一些演訓的動作常常會有一些徵訊的操作而現在徵訊的操作比較常看到的是有影片跟圖卡\n\n09:38.010 --> 09:51.557\n那利用這種影片跟圖卡的一個操作來凸顯到好像台灣已經兵兇戰危讓我們的民眾感受到這種危機感那我想這一些演習過程當中的證訊操作也是本局在\n\n09:53.458 --> 10:17.846\n觀察演習過程當中中共動作裡面非常重要的一環所以在今天的夜報當中我們也是除了說明中共對台的武力脅迫以外又針對偵訊的部分去說明到我們怎麼樣透過我們的自動查找的系統來掌握它散佈的一個網絡那以及怎麼樣運用AI的技術來製造這些圖卡或是影音來影響國人的相關的認知這是我們的關注重點謝謝委員提醒\n\n10:18.186 --> 10:39.052\n好那就下個月下個月就是我們這個總統就職週年了那共軍是不是有可能進行更大規模的這個行動我們這個國安局有沒有掌握相關的事情對我們會來注意因為現在中共的相關的演習也跟委員報告說明它這些演習有很多也是把它例行性的演習給拼湊在一起是\n\n10:39.512 --> 10:57.208\n對以剛剛委員提到4月1號、2號的海峽雷霆2025A我們就注意到了它有結合到北部戰區的遠海長航跟山東艦的遠海長航那以及相關例行性的聯合戰備警巡把它拼湊在一起變成是一個所謂的對台的正對性的演習\n\n10:57.788 --> 11:25.564\n那再配合到徵訊的操作來造成國人的一種恐慌那這種的演習它要啟動會非常的快那我們也會配合到我們國安單位跟國防部來發揮我們國軍聯合情監偵的系統來盡可能的預先來掌握相關的動態不過跟委員說明的是一般的船艦它要有相關活動的話一定都會要有一個時間來動員船隻那一般它開始動員我們大概都可以有相當程度的掌握\n\n11:26.524 --> 11:53.838\n最後一個問題我想請教局長,中共在上個月有舉辦兩會,全國人民代表大會及中國人民政治協商的會議,是不是會借機加大力道來操作新一波對台的這種錯假的認知攻勢,來藉此深化台灣內部的矛盾問題?\n\n11:54.762 --> 12:21.850\n對他的兩會委員提到的很重要也是有趣的問題我們有發現到他的基調幾乎都沒有變近年兩會都延續到過去的基調也就是反讀觸統觸容那也跟委員說明我們曾經用AI的系統在兩會召開之前用AI的系統去預測今年兩會的政府工作報告對台的部分它的用語會是什麼跟委員說明的是我們事前兩會之前AI系統預測的內容跟後來出來的結果\n\n12:24.491 --> 12:43.272\n都一樣85%那就代表說他一直在延續他既有的政策立場不是說AI技術很先進可以預測的準確而是中共的立場幾乎都一致強調所謂的反毒觸統出籠好謝謝局長那期待我們國安局一起來守護國安局好謝謝陳委員的指導謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.669,"end":23.599,"text":"謝謝主席 我們有請我們蔡局長好 局長 早副委員長局長 我想針對我們這幾天大家關心的這個共諜滲透的問題來就教我們局長那因為最近"},{"start":24.724,"end":37.64,"text":"包括負責總統府的維安的憲兵,也有我們立法院國會助理等等因為洩漏內部的資料給中共而被逮捕或是判刑,連外國的媒體都報導說我們總統身旁出現共諜"},{"start":44.048,"end":59.484,"text":"但是這個供碟滲透並非新的問題國安團隊我們也有提出因應的相關作為但是這個滲透的層級為什麼會越來越高它所造成的漏洞"},{"start":60.222,"end":88.323,"text":"的這個核心問題到底在哪裡另外就是我們國安局對於這種潛伏其中的這種共諜我們有沒有什麼樣的一個防範的一個措施跟車委員最後說明就中共在對台進行這些在地協力者或共諜的部件他常常會蠻全面式的來篩選特定的一個目標那我們在夜報的內容也跟各位委員先進有說明到那像是軍中"},{"start":88.803,"end":104.893,"text":"他可能會鎖定一些重要的單位希望能夠來刺密取得相關的機敏的情訊有助於中共未來在對台進行軍事活動的時候有相關的軍事資訊來支撐那第二部分也會去接觸到一些重要的黨"},{"start":105.754,"end":130.479,"text":"政、人事或是我們剛剛有委員在關切的立法院的內部因為這些單位比較容易去接觸到政府和密的一些資料那假如我們在內部對於人員的安全查核的機制不夠健全的話自然就會產生委員所擔心的漏洞的問題那這是我了解到有些貴院的委員也在想要提出相關的一些法規能夠讓立法院這邊在"},{"start":132.119,"end":160.598,"text":"立委助理的部分能夠有一個安全查核的一個過程那很願意來提供我們國安單位的做法那像我們局裡面有180幾個職務都有類似列為合密查核的對象那在合密的過程當中又有分甲級以及丙級可以接觸到絕對機密及機密跟機密那所以假如能夠建立起這樣的一個合密接密的一個分類分級的管制的標準的話那可能在這部分的漏洞會比較減少一點"},{"start":162.821,"end":167.55,"text":"謝謝局長我建議就是我們在行政部門或是包括立法院的國會助理"},{"start":169.195,"end":195.101,"text":"我們在審核的部分是不是可以來研擬一套新的方式來提供給我們行政部門跟立法院的相關國會助理的審查避免剛剛講的這種情勢再發生我想這也是非常重要因為這些人都是涉及到非常多機敏的相關資料那也會是中共要滲透的一個"},{"start":195.681,"end":217.95,"text":"重點的一個對象所以我想說這是不是請局長跟我們同仁是不是在這個會後可以去研擬看看提高我們這個審查的這個方式來協助我們相關需要的這個部門能夠有一個比較嚴謹比較神秘的一個審查我們很願意分享我們的一些經驗給各單位來做參考"},{"start":218.63,"end":246.729,"text":"那另外我們管局有這個提到我們供碟滲透的手法分析報告那去年這個供碟案起訴了這個人數達到64人那在以2021年來看是4倍之多那進一步我們分析供碟的類型歸納出這個五大滲透管道及四大手法那今年所偵辦的案件起訴案件有15件主要的滲透手法跟對象"},{"start":247.769,"end":260.717,"text":"有無轉變那另外政府是不是能夠有效的來反制另外我們國安局是否可以再提高揭露的頻率以提升我們國人保防安全的相關意識"},{"start":262.015,"end":281.681,"text":"對,最後這一點揭露的部分,鄭如委員也注意到我們現在開始有這種所謂的專題的報告來針對這些涉及到國安的議題那透過一個比較完整的分析以及這些案件樣態的一個進入比較深層的討論來讓我們社會大眾更有這樣的一個保防為安的知覺"},{"start":282.361,"end":296.756,"text":"那能夠強化我們的相關的社會的韌性那另外一部分法制的強化也是非常的重要我在會議之前也跟媒體朋友做說明跟報告也就是說怎麼樣來看我們目前的法制有沒有哪些的漏洞可以強化的"},{"start":297.697,"end":326.62,"text":"因為中共在這個部分他們會去針對我們法制的不足的地方來進行一些所謂的人員的部署舉個例子像國安法我們國安法第二條只提到了發展組織罪有相關的刑責並沒有參與組織罪的刑責發展的人有事參與的人沒事那這就代表我們在法制上還有一些更精進的空間那這部分也跟法務部的政部長有在討論這一塊怎麼樣來做一些必要的修法那假如法案有送到貴院來希望委員可以大力的來支持"},{"start":326.98,"end":353.919,"text":"好,這部分再請我們管局這邊競訴來這個送審那另外就是我們中共這個軍演跟內部的整肅的相關問題我想還是就叫我們局長那在上週這個中共有進行這個海峽雷霆2025A的這個軍演那是在我們賴總統3月中宣布國安17條之後中共"},{"start":355.901,"end":372.553,"text":"實施的聯合戰備警巡之後再次發動重大的軍演我想請教局長他這個真正的目的是什麼以及他想釋放的訊息為何另外就是"},{"start":373.053,"end":399.907,"text":"中共藉由這次的軍演是不是在測試川普新政府及我們其他盟友的底線?是不是如此?事實上這次演習的時間點確實是比較特殊因為總統是在3月13號召開國安高層會議做了一些加強我們防制中共滲透的一些措施的宣布但是演習的時間是拖到了4月1號跟2號那一般來講假如是針對性的演習的話時間不會拖這麼長"},{"start":402.288,"end":419.307,"text":"所以我們在判斷上當然透過這個演習可以對台進行一些施壓這是演習的目的之一另外在那個時間點剛好是美國他們的國防部有一些情資被媒體報導認為說美國有一些相關的國防建制的計畫重點是在置中保台"},{"start":419.767,"end":442.463,"text":"那這種的一個國防政策計畫可能也讓中共有點希望能夠透過軍演來表達他們的一個基本的底線跟立場那特別那個時間點也是美國的國防部長到關島到了日本到了菲律賓訪問之後的隔一天來舉行演習所以這次演習應該還是有對美國印太戰略進行反制佈局的一個效果第三個面向是中共內部的問題"},{"start":443.664,"end":464.752,"text":"因為目前中共正在進行一些軍中將領的整肅那委員不知道有沒有注意到那被整肅的很多都是東部戰區或是有31集團軍背景的這些將領那在整肅的過程當中透過這種軍事的演訓的話也可以來讓解放軍的部隊更專注在戰訓而不要去因為的"},{"start":465.652,"end":483.431,"text":"這些政治的整肅而去動搖到他的軍心那另一方面在整肅過程當中透過軍演他也可以讓外界來展示說即使內部有這麼多的問題他還是有一定的戰力可以來對外來呈現所以我們大概是從這三個層次來跟委員報告可能這一次中共軍演背後的戰略的盤算跟動機"},{"start":484.212,"end":507.62,"text":"好,那我接著問那個請教我們局長,就剛剛講的中共進來就在整肅嘛,那對於他整肅的對象包括這個中央軍委的副主席這個何惠東還有東部戰區的司令林向陽,那他這個部分是不是因為他們有涉入這個洩漏對台的相關作戰計畫而遭到這個整肅?"},{"start":508.5,"end":527.066,"text":"對 目前確實有各種的說法這是其中的一種說法那有的也是涉及到可能有貪腐的問題那也有人認為說可能是對習近平的忠誠度遭到質疑那這部分的資訊非常的分雜那因為事件也還在整肅的進行過程當中我們會持續來注意到底什麼才是真正的原因好"},{"start":527.566,"end":553.196,"text":"另外我想請教局長就是我們從去年的這個聯合力艦還有今年的這個海峽雷霆他所釋出的相關這個宣傳的短影片內容裡面有秀出一張台灣地圖他鎖定台北市台中高雄還有花蓮縣為四個紅心的這個目標那另外當然還有其他五個未標注地點包括宜蘭縣的這個地點在演習的代號的轉變上"},{"start":557.297,"end":577.25,"text":"他所釋出的這個短片中鎖定特定的縣市有無特殊的這個政治或是軍事的意涵我們覺得他有他政治的意涵在那中共他現在在進行對台的一些演訓的動作常常會有一些徵訊的操作而現在徵訊的操作比較常看到的是有影片跟圖卡"},{"start":578.01,"end":591.557,"text":"那利用這種影片跟圖卡的一個操作來凸顯到好像台灣已經兵兇戰危讓我們的民眾感受到這種危機感那我想這一些演習過程當中的證訊操作也是本局在"},{"start":593.458,"end":617.846,"text":"觀察演習過程當中中共動作裡面非常重要的一環所以在今天的夜報當中我們也是除了說明中共對台的武力脅迫以外又針對偵訊的部分去說明到我們怎麼樣透過我們的自動查找的系統來掌握它散佈的一個網絡那以及怎麼樣運用AI的技術來製造這些圖卡或是影音來影響國人的相關的認知這是我們的關注重點謝謝委員提醒"},{"start":618.186,"end":639.052,"text":"好 那就下個月下個月就是我們這個總統就職週年了那共軍是不是有可能進行更大規模的這個行動我們這個國安局有沒有掌握相關的事情對 我們會來注意因為現在中共的相關的演習也跟委員報告說明它這些演習有很多也是把它例行性的演習給拼湊在一起是"},{"start":639.512,"end":657.208,"text":"對 以剛剛委員提到4月1號、2號的海峽雷霆2025A我們就注意到了它有結合到北部戰區的遠海長航跟山東艦的遠海長航那以及相關例行性的聯合戰備警巡把它拼湊在一起變成是一個所謂的對台的正對性的演習"},{"start":657.788,"end":685.564,"text":"那再配合到徵訊的操作來造成國人的一種恐慌那這種的演習它要啟動會非常的快那我們也會配合到我們國安單位跟國防部來發揮我們國軍聯合情監偵的系統來盡可能的預先來掌握相關的動態不過跟委員說明的是一般的船艦它要有相關活動的話一定都會要有一個時間來動員船隻那一般它開始動員我們大概都可以有相當程度的掌握"},{"start":686.524,"end":713.838,"text":"最後一個問題我想請教局長,中共在上個月有舉辦兩會,全國人民代表大會及中國人民政治協商的會議,是不是會借機加大力道來操作新一波對台的這種錯假的認知攻勢,來藉此深化台灣內部的矛盾問題?"},{"start":714.762,"end":741.85,"text":"對他的兩會委員提到的很重要也是有趣的問題我們有發現到他的基調幾乎都沒有變近年兩會都延續到過去的基調也就是反讀觸統觸容那也跟委員說明我們曾經用AI的系統在兩會召開之前用AI的系統去預測今年兩會的政府工作報告對台的部分它的用語會是什麼跟委員說明的是我們事前兩會之前AI系統預測的內容跟後來出來的結果"},{"start":744.491,"end":763.272,"text":"都一樣85%那就代表說他一直在延續他既有的政策立場不是說AI技術很先進可以預測的準確而是中共的立場幾乎都一致強調所謂的反毒觸統出籠好 謝謝局長那期待我們國安局一起來守護國安局好 謝謝陳委員的指導 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":402,"blocks":[["陳委員俊宇：（10時15分）謝謝主席，有請我們蔡局長，局長早。"],["蔡局長明彥：陳委員早。"],["陳委員俊宇：局長，我想針對這幾天大家關心的共諜滲透問題來就教局長。"],["蔡局長明彥：好。"],["陳委員俊宇：最近包括負責總統府維安的憲兵，也有我們立法院國會助理等等，因為洩漏內部的資料給中共而被逮捕或是判刑，連外國的媒體都報導說我們總統身旁出現共諜，但是這個共諜滲透並非新的問題，國安團隊也有提出因應的相關作為，但是滲透的層級為什麼會越來越高？它所造成這個漏洞的核心問題到底在哪裡？另外，我們國安局對於這種潛伏其中的共諜有沒有什麼樣的防範措施？"],["蔡局長明彥：跟陳委員做個說明，就中共對臺進行這些在地協力者或共諜的布建，常常會滿全面式的篩選特定目標，我們在業報的內容也有跟各位委員先進說明，像軍中，他們可能會鎖定一些重要的單位，希望能夠來刺密以取得相關的機敏情訊，有助於中共未來對臺進行軍事活動的時候有相關的軍事資訊來支撐。","第二部分，他們也會去接觸到一些重要的黨政人士，或是剛剛也有委員在關切的立法院內部，因為這些單位比較容易接觸到政府核密的一些資料，假如我們在內部對於人員的安全查核機制不夠健全的話，自然就會產生委員所擔心的漏洞問題。這次我了解到貴院有些委員也想提出相關的一些法規，讓立法院在立委助理的部分能夠有一個安全查核的過程，我們很願意提供國安單位的作法，像我們局裡面有一百八十幾個職務都有類似列為核密查核的對象，在核密的過程當中又有分甲級、乙級、丙級，可以接觸到絕對機密、極機密跟機密，所以假如能夠建立起這樣一個核密、接密的分類、分級管制標準的話，可能在這部分的漏洞會比較減少一點，以上意見提供給委員參考。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，謝謝局長。我建議在行政部門或是包括立法院的國會助理，我們在審核的部分是不是可以研擬一套新的方式，提供給我們行政部門跟立法院相關國會助理的審查，避免剛剛講的這種情事再發生，我想這也是非常重要。"],["蔡局長明彥：好。"],["陳委員俊宇：因為這些人都是涉及到非常多機敏的相關資料，也會是中共要滲透的重點對象。"],["蔡局長明彥：對。"],["陳委員俊宇：所以我想局長跟我們同仁是不是會後可以去研擬看看，提高我們審查的方式，協助相關需要的部門能夠有一個比較嚴謹、比較縝密的審查？"],["蔡局長明彥：好，我們很願意分享我們的一些經驗給各單位來做參考。"],["陳委員俊宇：另外，我們國安局有提到共諜滲透手法分析報告，去年共諜案起訴人數達到64人，是2021年的4倍之多，我們進一步分析共諜的類型，歸納出五大滲透管道及四大手法，今年所偵辦的案件中，起訴案件有15件，主要的滲透手法跟對象有無轉變？政府是否能夠有效的反制？另外，我們國安局是否可以再提高揭露的頻率，以提升我們國人保防安全的相關意識？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，最後這一點，揭露的部分，正如委員也注意到，我們現在開始有所謂的專題報告，針對這些涉及到國安的議題，透過一個比較完整的分析，以及這些案件的樣態，進入比較深層的討論，讓我們社會大眾更有保防維安的知覺，能夠強化我們相關社會的韌性。","另外一部分，法制的強化也非常的重要，我在會議之前也跟媒體朋友說明跟報告；也就是說，怎麼樣來看我們目前的法制，有沒有哪些漏洞可以強化，因為中共在這個部分會去針對我們法制不足的地方進行一些人員的部署。舉個例子，像國安法，我們國安法第二條只提到發展組織罪有相關刑責，並沒有參與組織罪的刑責，發展的人有事，參與的沒事，這就代表我們在法制上還有一些更精進的空間，這部分也跟法務部鄭部長在討論，這一塊怎麼樣做一些必要的修法，假如法案有送到貴院，也希望委員可以大力支持。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，這部分再請國安局這邊儘速送審。"],["蔡局長明彥：好。"],["陳委員俊宇：另外就是中共軍演跟內部整肅的相關問題，我想還是就教局長，上週中共有進行海峽雷霆─2025A軍演，是在賴總統3月中宣布國安十七條之後，中共曾實施聯合戰備警巡之後的再次發動重大軍演。我想請教局長的是，他真正的目的是什麼？以及他想釋放的訊息為何？另外就是中共藉由這次軍演，是不是在測試川普新政府及我們其他盟友的底線？是不是如此？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，事實上這次演習的時間點確實是比較特殊，因為總統是在3月13號召開國安高層會議，做了一些加強我們防制中共滲透的一些措施的宣布，但是演習的時間拖到了4月1號跟2號，一般來講，假如是針對性的演習，時間不會拖這麼長，所以我們在判斷上，當然透過這個演習，可以對臺進行一些施壓，這是演習的目的之一。另外，在那個時間點，剛好是美國國防部有一些情資被媒體報導，認為美國有一些相關的國防建置計畫，重點是在制中保臺，這種國防政策計畫可能也讓中共有點希望能夠透過軍演來表達他們的基本底線跟立場，特別那個時間點也是美國國防部長Hegseth到了關島、到了日本、到了菲律賓訪問之後的隔一天舉行演習，所以這次演習應該還是有對美國印太戰略進行反制布局的一個效果。第三個面向是中共內部的問題，因為目前中共正在進行一些軍中將領的整肅，委員不知道有沒有注意到，被整肅的很多都是東部戰區，或是有三十一集團軍背景的這些將領，在整肅的過程當中，透過這種軍事演訓的話，也可以讓解放軍部隊更專注在戰訓，而不要因為這些政治整肅去動搖到他的軍心。另一方面，在整肅過程當中，透過軍演也可以向外界展示，即使內部有這麼多的問題，它還是有一定的戰力可以對外呈現。所以我們大概是從這三個層次來跟委員報告，可能這一次中共軍演背後戰略的盤算跟動機。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，我接著請教局長，剛剛講的中共近來是在整肅，對於整肅的對象，包括中央軍委副主席何衛東，還有東部戰區司令林向陽，關於這個部分，是不是因為他們有涉入洩漏對臺相關作戰計畫而遭到整肅？"],["蔡局長明彥：目前確實有各種說法，這是其中一種說法，有的也是涉及到可能有貪腐的問題，也有人認為可能是對習近平的忠誠度遭到質疑，這部分資訊非常紛雜，因為事件也還在整肅進行過程當中，我們會持續注意到底什麼才是真正的原因。"],["陳委員俊宇：好。另外我想請教局長的是，從去年的聯合利箭，還有今年的海峽雷霆，它所釋出的相關宣傳短影片，內容裡面有秀出一張臺灣地圖，它鎖定臺北市、臺中、高雄，還有花蓮縣為四個紅星目標，另外當然還有其他五個未標註地點，包括宜蘭縣這個地點，在演習代號的轉變上，所釋出的這個短片中鎖定特定縣市有無特殊政治或是軍事意涵？"],["蔡局長明彥：有。我們覺得它有它的政治意涵在，中共現在在進行對臺的一些演訓動作，常常會有一些爭訊的操作，而現在爭訊的操作，比較常看到的是有影片跟圖卡，利用這種影片跟圖卡的操作來凸顯好像臺灣已經兵凶戰危，讓我們的民眾感受到危機感，我想這些演習過程當中的爭訊操作，也是本局在觀察演習過程當中中共動作裡面非常重要的一環。所以在今天的業報當中，我們也是除了說明中共對臺的武力脅迫以外，也有針對爭訊的部分去說明我們怎麼樣透過我們的自動查找系統，來掌握它散布的網絡，以及怎麼樣運用AI技術製造這些圖卡或是影音，影響國人的相關認知，這是我們的關注重點，謝謝委員提醒。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，下個月就是我們總統就職週年，共軍是不是有可能進行更大規模的行動？國安局有沒有掌握相關訊息？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，我們會來注意。現在中共的相關演習也跟委員報告說明，這些演習有很多也是把例行性演習拼湊在一起，以剛剛委員提到4月1號、2號的海峽雷霆─2025A，我們就注意到了它有結合到北部戰區的遠海長航跟山東艦的遠海長航，以及相關例行性的聯合戰備警巡，把它拼湊在一起變成是一個所謂對臺的針對性演習，再配合爭訊的操作，來造成國人的一種恐慌，這種演習要啟動會非常快，我們也會配合我們國安單位跟國防部來發揮我們國軍聯合情監偵系統，儘可能的預見掌握相關動態。","不過，跟委員說明的是，一般的船艦要有相關活動的話，一定都會要有一個時間來動員船隻，一般它開始動員，我們大概都可以有相當程度的掌握。"],["陳委員俊宇：好。最後一個問題我想請教局長，中共在上個月有舉辦兩會──全國人民代表大會及中國人民政治協商會議，是不是會藉機加大力道操作新一波對臺錯假的認知攻勢，藉此深化臺灣內部的矛盾問題？"],["蔡局長明彥：委員提到一個很重要，也是有趣的問題，我們有發現到，它的基調幾乎都沒有變，近來兩會都延續到過去的基調，也就是反獨、促統、促融。也跟委員說明，我們曾經用AI系統，在兩會召開之前用AI的系統去預測今年兩會政府工作報告對臺部分的用語會是什麼，跟委員說明的是，我們在兩會之前AI系統預測的內容跟後來出來的結果……"],["陳委員俊宇：都一樣？"],["蔡局長明彥：百分之八十五，那就代表它一直在延續既有的政策立場，不是說AI技術很先進可以預測得準確，而是中共的立場幾乎都一致強調所謂的反獨、促統、促融。"],["陳委員俊宇：好，謝謝局長，期待國安局一起守護國家。"],["蔡局長明彥：好，謝謝陳委員的指導，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳俊宇委員上臺質詢。","接下來由陳冠廷委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":60,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-6","speakers":["黃仁","羅美玲","徐巧芯","陳俊宇","陳冠廷","馬文君","王定宇","林楚茵","楊瓊瓔","沈伯洋","李坤城","王鴻薇","林憶君"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-04-09"],"gazette_id":"1143601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143601_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥率相關情報機關首長提出「國家情報工作暨國家安全局業務報告」，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143601_00001"}}}