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760.919, \"end\": 771.75, \"text\": \"好不好 所以我希望你們能夠在最短的時間內有一些可以通案的就通案 我剛才講了嘛第一個 我們先要怪罪是什麼政府你不作為啊 是不是二十多年了\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 760.919, \"end\": 761.039, \"score\": 0.705}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 761.039, \"end\": 761.139, \"score\": 0.509}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 761.139, \"end\": 761.339, \"score\": 0.782}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 761.339, \"end\": 761.42, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 761.42, \"end\": 761.5, \"score\": 0.196}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 761.5, \"end\": 761.64, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 761.64, \"end\": 761.78, \"score\": 0.784}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 761.78, \"end\": 761.92, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 761.92, \"end\": 762.521, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 762.521, \"end\": 762.801, \"score\": 0.59}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 762.801, \"end\": 763.101, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 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{\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"吳\"}, {\"word\": \"思\", \"start\": 861.492, \"end\": 861.633, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"堯\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 861.633, \"end\": 861.854, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 861.854, \"end\": 861.874, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,929 --> 00:00:18,339\n主席在那個發言之前我想要做一下譴責就是因為今天我們邀請非常多的單位但是邀請的首長很多都用請假的方式那有一些當然因為在可能其他的委員會我知道他們有這個業務報告\n\n2\n00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:39,031\n那這個就情有可原但是也很多也不曉得為什麼就直接就用請假的方式我覺得這對我們司法法治委員會是相當的不尊重這部分一定要這個云以譴責來那個表示我們的意見那接下來我請我們的移民署今天是是副署長還有陸委會也是副主委\n\n3\n00:00:53,162 --> 00:01:13,712\n那個王委員那個有關今天有很多人請假這件事情我們剛剛有處理剛剛有委員有提出來那我這邊的意思是說因為有一些人之前也都沒有跟我提那我今天早上才知道那確實有兩位部會首長是在那個國防外交委員會那邊對我知道有的其他的他就是\n\n4\n00:01:14,412 --> 00:01:37,787\n給我們的理由就是因公務啦那事實上細節是什麼我們會再了解對因為主席我剛剛就講就是說因為我知道有一些首長他是有在其他的委員會而且事前請假那如果是還臨時性的請假只是說用公務我覺得這是非常非常不尊重我們司法法制委員會而且你要請假你也可以提早來說而不是這樣臨時性的來通知這個我們的\n\n5\n00:01:41,849 --> 00:01:58,655\n招委跟主席這是非常非常不禮貌的所以我們當然予以譴責謝謝主席今天的我們的主要的這個題目叫做言論自由事實上過去包含民進黨\n\n6\n00:01:59,835 --> 00:02:02,857\n非常遵從的鄭南榮先生100%的言論自由賴清德總統在選舉的時候也說他支持100%的言論自由到了最近呢賴清德總統又去祭拜鄭南榮先生仍然在講100%的言論自由\n\n7\n00:02:19,446 --> 00:02:34,839\n但是現在看起來民進黨執政之後這個所謂的百分之百的言論自由這個百分之百它的含水量變得非常非常的高因為它加了很多的前提好可是今天呢我為什麼來找移民署跟陸委會\n\n8\n00:02:37,461 --> 00:02:50,956\n因為最近這兩天大家都可以看到不只是網路上的炸鍋還有我們各個民意代表選民服我相信包含民進黨的委員因為在你們的選區裡面在你們的選民裡面也有很多來自於陸配或者陸配的家庭\n\n9\n00:02:59,085 --> 00:03:08,932\n特別是最近所去調查的要求來台灣尤其在這次影響最深的就是民國93年之前而且你取得身份證的這些陸配所以可以看到最近其實我們收到的很多的選民陳情是來自於他們的子女因為他們到台灣來嫁到台灣來都已經二三十年了\n\n10\n00:03:28,907 --> 00:03:34,589\n結果我們現在呢我們的陸委會跟移民署卻是一個鋪天蓋地的要求已經來台灣二三十年的陸配要求他們在三個月之內必須提出證明在中國大陸已經撤銷戶籍撤銷國籍的相關的證明否則的話三個月內就要被除籍\n\n11\n00:03:58,178 --> 00:04:15,116\n就要被除籍所以可以看到陆配的家庭一片哀嚎有很多的子女说今天难道我的妈妈要变成政治人球了吗我的妈妈来了二三十年她很多的原生家庭可能原生家庭都不在了\n\n12\n00:04:15,757 --> 00:04:38,399\n那他如何到已經來台灣三十年了然後突然要求他三個月內去拿到這些資料否則你在台灣就被取消戶籍所以我想請問一下移民署跟陸委會我也看到你們昨天也分別的宣布一些補救的措施因為這個實在是我覺得對台灣\n\n13\n00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,163\n來講台灣真的應該還是很有人道的而且對於陸配的家庭你如果說你今天說什麼以國安調查就是你來台灣可能幾年內那他比較好去取得這些資料可是事實上因為在後來我們的疫情之後這些其實都已經清查過了\n\n14\n00:04:59,281 --> 00:05:23,998\n最先影響最大的一批反而是來台灣二三十年的這些陸配所以我想請問一下陸委會或移民署你們的補救措施是什麼還是說通通只是用個案處理還是某一些程度你們可以用通案的方式去處理不要造成這些陸配家庭他們的大恐慌\n\n15\n00:05:25,140 --> 00:05:47,752\n跟委員報告一下其實根據兩岸條例9-1在2004年的修法就是說在2004年修法之前已經拿到台灣身份的陸配他必須在六個月之內繳回在大陸除籍的證明否則就是要去除掉台灣的身份\n\n16\n00:05:49,986 --> 00:06:14,873\n現在有發生很多啊2004年民國93年20幾年前而且那個時候拿到身份證要8年對不對所以他很多都已經來了真的二三十年了當時他拿出來的時候他說他都已經繳過那現在他拿不出來所以我還想說你們現在都是要用個案處理還是有通案處理辦法委員講的沒有錯就是說其實按照法律條文如果要嚴格執行\n\n17\n00:06:19,102 --> 00:06:33,613\n這些都沒有繳的實際上政府機關就必須要把他台灣的身份去除掉你們二三十年不執行這個法律所以我們現在做清查然後給大家時間回去拿其實就是在法律之外三個月之內要繳出來時間合理嗎\n\n18\n00:06:47,263 --> 00:06:56,389\n他來台灣三十年你讓他三個月內找出來不然的話你就變成政治人球你要讓他淪為政治難民嗎他的原生家庭可能都不在了\n\n19\n00:06:57,786 --> 00:07:19,077\n原生家庭在不在跟他有沒有辦法回到那邊的派出所取得文件那是兩回事情就算他家庭不在了他如果能夠回到那邊的派出所取得文件那個還是可以的三個月之內要回去對那我們現在的三個月之內要回去他即便臥床了對不對跟委員報告一下他有任何的原因了沒有錯所以\n\n20\n00:07:19,497 --> 00:07:42,792\n任何人任何這個家庭他如果說他覺得他提出說他確實有什麼樣的困難譬如說他說這個當年他的身份證件是從什麼救災總會來幫他申請有特別提到有的已經交給當時的中華救災總會了那這個東西我們都要去了解到底有沒有這回事\n\n21\n00:07:43,712 --> 00:08:03,509\n所以我覺得現在對我們來講的話就是說我們願意讓所有的收到我們通知的這些家庭或是陸配他們提出來說他們有什麼樣的理由是確實有辦法拿回去因為這兩天我知道我剛剛講過其實因為我們其實服務案件是不分藍綠的\n\n22\n00:08:04,890 --> 00:08:13,242\n你能講說陸配指頭給在野黨嗎我真的覺得門心自問副主委你也是明代出身你該講你當時的選民沒有陸配會來自陸配家庭嗎今天讓他們雞飛狗跳\n\n23\n00:08:20,192 --> 00:08:28,116\n讓他們覺得飽受這些壓力合理嗎你於心何忍我要問的是今天很多的委員通通來找昨天移民署也來我辦公室來做說明我們看很多委員都在急著在處理這些選民服務因為他們非常著急三個月其實很短的時間\n\n24\n00:08:43,462 --> 00:09:08,236\n好所以我才要求再透過這次諮詢我希望包含陸委會跟移民署你們應該要有一些通案性的解決老師說我們在很多有法律的部分比如說我們什麼追稅即便是確定的欠稅它的追溯期也是15年啊通緝犯可以通緝幾年對不對你只有30年之前你要求你給我交出來\n\n25\n00:09:09,933 --> 00:09:32,652\n你覺得合理嗎是不是我們如果在很多的法律上都有一個追溯的期間老實說啦如果他們是共匪他們是共諜潛伏在這邊二三十年你們自己政府都不執法啊剛講說這是依法執行對啊什麼時候定的法呢2004年啊民國93年距離現在多久了\n\n26\n00:09:33,493 --> 00:09:49,432\n我說難聽點這個裡面國民黨執政民進黨執政民進黨弱權這個很重要那你們過去九年在睡覺嗎是不是為什麼要讓老百姓這麼痛苦好我因為我時間有限我可不可以請移民署你們有我知道你們今天也被罵爆了啦對不對\n\n27\n00:09:51,798 --> 00:10:16,518\n所以請問移民署有沒有一些相關的一些通案的方式可以去解決呢?謝謝委員在這裡先跟委員說明一下其實兩岸分配以來有36萬的大陸配合其中已經獲得在台定居的共有14萬多人那我們經查大多數的人都有繳付上司員籍的證明\n\n28\n00:10:17,259 --> 00:10:41,952\n那目前這個部分沒有繳納的這個部分大概有多少萬我知道有好幾萬人一萬出頭那這個部分可能我們也是在想說它是不是疫情的關係或者它其他的因素比方說它的健康的因素或者有少數政治風險比方法輪功的\n\n29\n00:10:42,492 --> 00:11:08,037\n比方假設這些他們沒有辦法返回中國大陸來辦理我們會就這些個案我們來做處理那民眾呢如果在實際上有真的無法克服的困難那我們也開一個那個設有服務的電子信箱還有我們全省有22個服務站都有電話我們也希望說\n\n30\n00:11:08,897 --> 00:11:23,773\n這些個案他即使來反映那我們針對這些特殊的個案我們會同陸委會跟海基會來嚴處然後尋求一個妥適的解決之道我要講的就是說我們現在各委員辦公室說實在你們也確實\n\n31\n00:11:25,094 --> 00:11:42,944\n也一定疲於奔命但疲於奔命也是應該的因為大家都碰到我們現在有的委員甚至說我們大家聯合起來聯合起來因為我這邊有兩三個其他委員有兩三個都有這樣大家聯合起來一起把它說清楚講明白所以我希望我在這邊為什麼要透過諮詢我希望\n\n32\n00:11:45,686 --> 00:11:55,610\n移民署還有陸委會能夠延伸一個就是他可以適用是屬於比較通案型的有一些比如說在什麼樣的狀況之下你可以給予他緩衝的期間比如我剛剛講說有的因為他在臥床啊你讓他怎麼去啊你要讓他怎麼去呢對不對或者他現在真的就已經沒有辦法他認為他真的原生家不是說你原生家庭啊沒有關係啊反正你就去啊對不對\n\n33\n00:12:13,876 --> 00:12:39,749\n不是每一個這個陸配尤其他可能有一些年齡了對不對所以我覺得我們今天在處理這個事情的時候第一個基於人道的處理好不好因為其實我們現在接獲的大部分都是來自於陸配的子女而且他們憤憤不平覺得怎麼會突然他的媽媽要變成有這樣的一個待遇\n\n34\n00:12:40,919 --> 00:12:51,750\n好不好所以我希望你們能夠在最短的時間內有一些可以通案的就通案我剛才講了嘛第一個我們先要怪罪是什麼政府你不作為啊是不是二十多年了\n\n35\n00:12:56,260 --> 00:13:17,759\n你如果依法是二十幾年前定的法律你政府不作為現在造成人民他的不便請問一下錯誤的是人民還是錯誤的是政府請問一下副主委這個事情其實從2004年到現在藍綠政黨都輪替過所以這個事情我認為就是它不是藍綠的問題而是這個制度的問題然後\n\n36\n00:13:22,583 --> 00:13:50,335\n你執行就有問題嘛沒有錯那所以委員講的沒有錯啦就是說我們會去設計一些這個怎麼樣的標準譬如說年齡或者是健康這些東西我們都會把它考慮進去但是因為現在的法律規定就是這樣子我們也沒有辦法說透過解釋然後做不執行所以目前的話我們會在法律跟人道之間做一個最大的權衡謝謝而且我覺得\n\n37\n00:13:51,616 --> 00:14:17,439\n我覺得這個當然因為現在很特殊我覺得該修法就修法我剛剛講了我們在很多的法律上的追溯我們都還定定追溯期了對不對然後現在是無限期的這樣子一直直接的追溯所以我覺得這個當然這是比較長期的但是在最短期我希望能夠有一個比較屬於通案性的來協助這些不知所措的這些家庭好不好\n\n38\n00:14:20,526 --> 00:14:21,874\n好謝謝那我們現在會請吳思堯委員發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n929\t18339\t主席在那個發言之前我想要做一下譴責就是因為今天我們邀請非常多的單位但是邀請的首長很多都用請假的方式那有一些當然因為在可能其他的委員會我知道他們有這個業務報告\n20640\t39031\t那這個就情有可原但是也很多也不曉得為什麼就直接就用請假的方式我覺得這對我們司法法治委員會是相當的不尊重這部分一定要這個云以譴責來那個表示我們的意見那接下來我請我們的移民署今天是是副署長還有陸委會也是副主委\n53162\t73712\t那個王委員那個有關今天有很多人請假這件事情我們剛剛有處理剛剛有委員有提出來那我這邊的意思是說因為有一些人之前也都沒有跟我提那我今天早上才知道那確實有兩位部會首長是在那個國防外交委員會那邊對我知道有的其他的他就是\n74412\t97787\t給我們的理由就是因公務啦那事實上細節是什麼我們會再了解對因為主席我剛剛就講就是說因為我知道有一些首長他是有在其他的委員會而且事前請假那如果是還臨時性的請假只是說用公務我覺得這是非常非常不尊重我們司法法制委員會而且你要請假你也可以提早來說而不是這樣臨時性的來通知這個我們的\n101849\t118655\t招委跟主席這是非常非常不禮貌的所以我們當然予以譴責謝謝主席今天的我們的主要的這個題目叫做言論自由事實上過去包含民進黨\n119835\t122857\t非常遵從的鄭南榮先生100%的言論自由賴清德總統在選舉的時候也說他支持100%的言論自由到了最近呢賴清德總統又去祭拜鄭南榮先生仍然在講100%的言論自由\n139446\t154839\t但是現在看起來民進黨執政之後這個所謂的百分之百的言論自由這個百分之百它的含水量變得非常非常的高因為它加了很多的前提好 可是今天呢我為什麼來找移民署跟陸委會\n157461\t170956\t因為最近這兩天 大家都可以看到不只是網路上的炸鍋 還有我們各個民意代表選民服 我相信包含民進黨的委員因為在你們的選區裡面 在你們的選民裡面也有很多來自於陸配或者陸配的家庭\n179085\t188932\t特別是最近所去調查的要求來台灣尤其在這次影響最深的就是民國93年之前而且你取得身份證的這些陸配所以可以看到最近其實我們收到的很多的選民陳情是來自於他們的子女因為他們到台灣來 嫁到台灣來都已經二三十年了\n208907\t214589\t結果我們現在呢我們的陸委會跟移民署卻是一個鋪天蓋地的要求已經來台灣二三十年的陸配要求他們在三個月之內必須提出證明在中國大陸已經撤銷戶籍撤銷國籍的相關的證明否則的話三個月內就要被除籍\n238178\t255116\t就要被除籍所以可以看到陆配的家庭一片哀嚎有很多的子女说今天难道我的妈妈要变成政治人球了吗我的妈妈来了二三十年她很多的原生家庭可能原生家庭都不在了\n255757\t278399\t那他如何到已經來台灣三十年了然後突然要求他三個月內去拿到這些資料否則你在台灣就被取消戶籍所以我想請問一下移民署跟陸委會我也看到你們昨天也分別的宣布一些補救的措施因為這個實在是我覺得對台灣\n279480\t282163\t來講台灣真的應該還是很有人道的而且對於陸配的家庭你如果說你今天說什麼以國安調查就是你來台灣可能幾年內那他比較好去取得這些資料可是事實上因為在後來我們的疫情之後這些其實都已經清查過了\n299281\t323998\t最先影響最大的一批反而是來台灣二三十年的這些陸配所以我想請問一下陸委會或移民署你們的補救措施是什麼還是說通通只是用個案處理還是某一些程度你們可以用通案的方式去處理不要造成這些陸配家庭他們的大恐慌\n325140\t347752\t跟委員報告一下 其實根據兩岸條例9-1在2004年的修法就是說在2004年修法之前已經拿到台灣身份的陸配他必須在六個月之內繳回在大陸除籍的證明否則就是要去除掉台灣的身份\n349986\t374873\t現在有發生很多啊2004年民國93年20幾年前而且那個時候拿到身份證要8年對不對所以他很多都已經來了真的二三十年了當時他拿出來的時候他說他都已經繳過那現在他拿不出來所以我還想說你們現在都是要用個案處理還是有通案處理辦法委員講的沒有錯就是說其實按照法律條文如果要嚴格執行\n379102\t393613\t這些都沒有繳的 實際上政府機關就必須要把他台灣的身份去除掉你們二三十年不執行這個法律所以我們現在做清查然後給大家時間回去拿其實就是在法律之外三個月之內要繳出來時間合理嗎\n407263\t416389\t他來台灣三十年 你讓他三個月內找出來不然的話 你就變成政治人球你要讓他淪為政治難民嗎他的原生家庭可能都不在了\n417786\t439077\t原生家庭在不在跟他有沒有辦法回到那邊的派出所取得文件那是兩回事情就算他家庭不在了他如果能夠回到那邊的派出所取得文件那個還是可以的三個月之內要回去對那我們現在的三個月之內要回去他即便臥床了對不對跟委員報告一下他有任何的原因了沒有錯所以\n439497\t462792\t任何人任何這個家庭他如果說他覺得他提出說他確實有什麼樣的困難譬如說他說這個當年他的身份證件是從什麼救災總會來幫他申請有特別提到有的已經交給當時的中華救災總會了那這個東西我們都要去了解到底有沒有這回事\n463712\t483509\t所以我覺得現在對我們來講的話就是說我們願意讓所有的收到我們通知的這些家庭或是陸配他們提出來說他們有什麼樣的理由是確實有辦法拿回去因為這兩天我知道我剛剛講過其實因為我們其實服務案件是不分藍綠的\n484890\t493242\t你能講說陸配指頭給在野黨嗎我真的覺得門心自問副主委你也是明代出身你該講你當時的選民沒有陸配會來自陸配家庭嗎今天讓他們雞飛狗跳\n500192\t508116\t讓他們覺得飽受這些壓力合理嗎你於心何忍我要問的是今天很多的委員通通來找昨天移民署也來我辦公室來做說明我們看很多委員都在急著在處理這些選民服務因為他們非常著急三個月其實很短的時間\n523462\t548236\t好 所以我才要求再透過這次諮詢我希望 包含陸委會跟移民署你們應該要有一些通案性的解決老師說 我們在很多有法律的部分比如說我們什麼追稅 即便是確定的欠稅它的追溯期也是15年啊通緝犯可以通緝幾年 對不對你只有30年之前 你要求你給我交出來\n549933\t572652\t你覺得合理嗎是不是我們如果在很多的法律上都有一個追溯的期間老實說啦如果他們是共匪他們是共諜潛伏在這邊二三十年你們自己政府都不執法啊剛講說這是依法執行對啊什麼時候定的法呢2004年啊民國93年距離現在多久了\n573493\t589432\t我說難聽點 這個裡面國民黨執政 民進黨執政 民進黨弱權這個很重要那你們過去九年在睡覺嗎 是不是為什麼要讓老百姓這麼痛苦好 我因為我時間有限 我可不可以請移民署你們有 我知道你們今天也被罵爆了啦 對不對\n591798\t616518\t所以請問移民署有沒有一些相關的一些通案的方式可以去解決呢?謝謝委員在這裡先跟委員說明一下其實兩岸分配以來有36萬的大陸配合其中已經獲得在台定居的共有14萬多人那我們經查大多數的人都有繳付上司員籍的證明\n617259\t641952\t那目前這個部分沒有繳納的這個部分大概有多少萬 我知道有好幾萬人一萬出頭那這個部分可能我們也是在想說它是不是疫情的關係或者它其他的因素比方說它的健康的因素或者有少數政治風險 比方法輪功的\n642492\t668037\t比方假設這些他們沒有辦法返回中國大陸來辦理我們會就這些個案我們來做處理那民眾呢如果在實際上有真的無法克服的困難那我們也開一個那個設有服務的電子信箱還有我們全省有22個服務站都有電話我們也希望說\n668897\t683773\t這些個案他即使來反映那我們針對這些特殊的個案我們會同陸委會跟海基會來嚴處然後尋求一個妥適的解決之道我要講的就是說我們現在各委員辦公室說實在你們也確實\n685094\t702944\t也一定疲於奔命但疲於奔命也是應該的因為大家都碰到我們現在有的委員甚至說我們大家聯合起來聯合起來因為我這邊有兩三個其他委員有兩三個 都有這樣大家聯合起來一起把它說清楚講明白所以我希望我在這邊為什麼要透過諮詢我希望\n705686\t715610\t移民署還有陸委會能夠延伸一個就是他可以適用是屬於比較通案型的有一些 比如說在什麼樣的狀況之下你可以給予他緩衝的期間比如我剛剛講說有的因為他在臥床啊你讓他怎麼去啊你要讓他怎麼去呢 對不對或者他現在真的就已經沒有辦法他認為他真的原生家不是說你原生家庭啊沒有關係啊反正你就去啊 對不對\n733876\t759749\t不是每一個 這個陸配尤其他可能有一些年齡了 對不對所以我覺得我們今天在處理這個事情的時候第一個基於人道的處理 好不好因為其實我們現在接獲的大部分都是來自於陸配的子女而且他們憤憤不平覺得怎麼會突然他的媽媽要變成有這樣的一個待遇\n760919\t771750\t好不好 所以我希望你們能夠在最短的時間內有一些可以通案的就通案 我剛才講了嘛第一個 我們先要怪罪是什麼政府你不作為啊 是不是二十多年了\n776260\t797759\t你如果依法是二十幾年前定的法律你政府不作為現在造成人民他的不便請問一下錯誤的是人民還是錯誤的是政府請問一下副主委這個事情其實從2004年到現在藍綠政黨都輪替過所以這個事情我認為就是它不是藍綠的問題而是這個制度的問題然後\n802583\t830335\t你執行就有問題嘛沒有錯那所以委員講的沒有錯啦就是說我們會去設計一些這個怎麼樣的標準譬如說年齡或者是健康這些東西我們都會把它考慮進去但是因為現在的法律規定就是這樣子我們也沒有辦法說透過解釋然後做不執行所以目前的話我們會在法律跟人道之間做一個最大的權衡謝謝而且我覺得\n831616\t857439\t我覺得這個當然因為現在很特殊我覺得該修法就修法我剛剛講了我們在很多的法律上的追溯我們都還定定追溯期了對不對然後現在是無限期的這樣子一直直接的追溯所以我覺得這個當然這是比較長期的但是在最短期我希望能夠有一個比較屬於通案性的來協助這些不知所措的這些家庭好不好\n860526\t861874\t好 謝謝那我們現在會請吳思堯委員發言\n","txt":"主席在那個發言之前我想要做一下譴責就是因為今天我們邀請非常多的單位但是邀請的首長很多都用請假的方式那有一些當然因為在可能其他的委員會我知道他們有這個業務報告\n那這個就情有可原但是也很多也不曉得為什麼就直接就用請假的方式我覺得這對我們司法法治委員會是相當的不尊重這部分一定要這個云以譴責來那個表示我們的意見那接下來我請我們的移民署今天是是副署長還有陸委會也是副主委\n那個王委員那個有關今天有很多人請假這件事情我們剛剛有處理剛剛有委員有提出來那我這邊的意思是說因為有一些人之前也都沒有跟我提那我今天早上才知道那確實有兩位部會首長是在那個國防外交委員會那邊對我知道有的其他的他就是\n給我們的理由就是因公務啦那事實上細節是什麼我們會再了解對因為主席我剛剛就講就是說因為我知道有一些首長他是有在其他的委員會而且事前請假那如果是還臨時性的請假只是說用公務我覺得這是非常非常不尊重我們司法法制委員會而且你要請假你也可以提早來說而不是這樣臨時性的來通知這個我們的\n招委跟主席這是非常非常不禮貌的所以我們當然予以譴責謝謝主席今天的我們的主要的這個題目叫做言論自由事實上過去包含民進黨\n非常遵從的鄭南榮先生100%的言論自由賴清德總統在選舉的時候也說他支持100%的言論自由到了最近呢賴清德總統又去祭拜鄭南榮先生仍然在講100%的言論自由\n但是現在看起來民進黨執政之後這個所謂的百分之百的言論自由這個百分之百它的含水量變得非常非常的高因為它加了很多的前提好 可是今天呢我為什麼來找移民署跟陸委會\n因為最近這兩天 大家都可以看到不只是網路上的炸鍋 還有我們各個民意代表選民服 我相信包含民進黨的委員因為在你們的選區裡面 在你們的選民裡面也有很多來自於陸配或者陸配的家庭\n特別是最近所去調查的要求來台灣尤其在這次影響最深的就是民國93年之前而且你取得身份證的這些陸配所以可以看到最近其實我們收到的很多的選民陳情是來自於他們的子女因為他們到台灣來 嫁到台灣來都已經二三十年了\n結果我們現在呢我們的陸委會跟移民署卻是一個鋪天蓋地的要求已經來台灣二三十年的陸配要求他們在三個月之內必須提出證明在中國大陸已經撤銷戶籍撤銷國籍的相關的證明否則的話三個月內就要被除籍\n就要被除籍所以可以看到陆配的家庭一片哀嚎有很多的子女说今天难道我的妈妈要变成政治人球了吗我的妈妈来了二三十年她很多的原生家庭可能原生家庭都不在了\n那他如何到已經來台灣三十年了然後突然要求他三個月內去拿到這些資料否則你在台灣就被取消戶籍所以我想請問一下移民署跟陸委會我也看到你們昨天也分別的宣布一些補救的措施因為這個實在是我覺得對台灣\n來講台灣真的應該還是很有人道的而且對於陸配的家庭你如果說你今天說什麼以國安調查就是你來台灣可能幾年內那他比較好去取得這些資料可是事實上因為在後來我們的疫情之後這些其實都已經清查過了\n最先影響最大的一批反而是來台灣二三十年的這些陸配所以我想請問一下陸委會或移民署你們的補救措施是什麼還是說通通只是用個案處理還是某一些程度你們可以用通案的方式去處理不要造成這些陸配家庭他們的大恐慌\n跟委員報告一下 其實根據兩岸條例9-1在2004年的修法就是說在2004年修法之前已經拿到台灣身份的陸配他必須在六個月之內繳回在大陸除籍的證明否則就是要去除掉台灣的身份\n現在有發生很多啊2004年民國93年20幾年前而且那個時候拿到身份證要8年對不對所以他很多都已經來了真的二三十年了當時他拿出來的時候他說他都已經繳過那現在他拿不出來所以我還想說你們現在都是要用個案處理還是有通案處理辦法委員講的沒有錯就是說其實按照法律條文如果要嚴格執行\n這些都沒有繳的 實際上政府機關就必須要把他台灣的身份去除掉你們二三十年不執行這個法律所以我們現在做清查然後給大家時間回去拿其實就是在法律之外三個月之內要繳出來時間合理嗎\n他來台灣三十年 你讓他三個月內找出來不然的話 你就變成政治人球你要讓他淪為政治難民嗎他的原生家庭可能都不在了\n原生家庭在不在跟他有沒有辦法回到那邊的派出所取得文件那是兩回事情就算他家庭不在了他如果能夠回到那邊的派出所取得文件那個還是可以的三個月之內要回去對那我們現在的三個月之內要回去他即便臥床了對不對跟委員報告一下他有任何的原因了沒有錯所以\n任何人任何這個家庭他如果說他覺得他提出說他確實有什麼樣的困難譬如說他說這個當年他的身份證件是從什麼救災總會來幫他申請有特別提到有的已經交給當時的中華救災總會了那這個東西我們都要去了解到底有沒有這回事\n所以我覺得現在對我們來講的話就是說我們願意讓所有的收到我們通知的這些家庭或是陸配他們提出來說他們有什麼樣的理由是確實有辦法拿回去因為這兩天我知道我剛剛講過其實因為我們其實服務案件是不分藍綠的\n你能講說陸配指頭給在野黨嗎我真的覺得門心自問副主委你也是明代出身你該講你當時的選民沒有陸配會來自陸配家庭嗎今天讓他們雞飛狗跳\n讓他們覺得飽受這些壓力合理嗎你於心何忍我要問的是今天很多的委員通通來找昨天移民署也來我辦公室來做說明我們看很多委員都在急著在處理這些選民服務因為他們非常著急三個月其實很短的時間\n好 所以我才要求再透過這次諮詢我希望 包含陸委會跟移民署你們應該要有一些通案性的解決老師說 我們在很多有法律的部分比如說我們什麼追稅 即便是確定的欠稅它的追溯期也是15年啊通緝犯可以通緝幾年 對不對你只有30年之前 你要求你給我交出來\n你覺得合理嗎是不是我們如果在很多的法律上都有一個追溯的期間老實說啦如果他們是共匪他們是共諜潛伏在這邊二三十年你們自己政府都不執法啊剛講說這是依法執行對啊什麼時候定的法呢2004年啊民國93年距離現在多久了\n我說難聽點 這個裡面國民黨執政 民進黨執政 民進黨弱權這個很重要那你們過去九年在睡覺嗎 是不是為什麼要讓老百姓這麼痛苦好 我因為我時間有限 我可不可以請移民署你們有 我知道你們今天也被罵爆了啦 對不對\n所以請問移民署有沒有一些相關的一些通案的方式可以去解決呢?謝謝委員在這裡先跟委員說明一下其實兩岸分配以來有36萬的大陸配合其中已經獲得在台定居的共有14萬多人那我們經查大多數的人都有繳付上司員籍的證明\n那目前這個部分沒有繳納的這個部分大概有多少萬 我知道有好幾萬人一萬出頭那這個部分可能我們也是在想說它是不是疫情的關係或者它其他的因素比方說它的健康的因素或者有少數政治風險 比方法輪功的\n比方假設這些他們沒有辦法返回中國大陸來辦理我們會就這些個案我們來做處理那民眾呢如果在實際上有真的無法克服的困難那我們也開一個那個設有服務的電子信箱還有我們全省有22個服務站都有電話我們也希望說\n這些個案他即使來反映那我們針對這些特殊的個案我們會同陸委會跟海基會來嚴處然後尋求一個妥適的解決之道我要講的就是說我們現在各委員辦公室說實在你們也確實\n也一定疲於奔命但疲於奔命也是應該的因為大家都碰到我們現在有的委員甚至說我們大家聯合起來聯合起來因為我這邊有兩三個其他委員有兩三個 都有這樣大家聯合起來一起把它說清楚講明白所以我希望我在這邊為什麼要透過諮詢我希望\n移民署還有陸委會能夠延伸一個就是他可以適用是屬於比較通案型的有一些 比如說在什麼樣的狀況之下你可以給予他緩衝的期間比如我剛剛講說有的因為他在臥床啊你讓他怎麼去啊你要讓他怎麼去呢 對不對或者他現在真的就已經沒有辦法他認為他真的原生家不是說你原生家庭啊沒有關係啊反正你就去啊 對不對\n不是每一個 這個陸配尤其他可能有一些年齡了 對不對所以我覺得我們今天在處理這個事情的時候第一個基於人道的處理 好不好因為其實我們現在接獲的大部分都是來自於陸配的子女而且他們憤憤不平覺得怎麼會突然他的媽媽要變成有這樣的一個待遇\n好不好 所以我希望你們能夠在最短的時間內有一些可以通案的就通案 我剛才講了嘛第一個 我們先要怪罪是什麼政府你不作為啊 是不是二十多年了\n你如果依法是二十幾年前定的法律你政府不作為現在造成人民他的不便請問一下錯誤的是人民還是錯誤的是政府請問一下副主委這個事情其實從2004年到現在藍綠政黨都輪替過所以這個事情我認為就是它不是藍綠的問題而是這個制度的問題然後\n你執行就有問題嘛沒有錯那所以委員講的沒有錯啦就是說我們會去設計一些這個怎麼樣的標準譬如說年齡或者是健康這些東西我們都會把它考慮進去但是因為現在的法律規定就是這樣子我們也沒有辦法說透過解釋然後做不執行所以目前的話我們會在法律跟人道之間做一個最大的權衡謝謝而且我覺得\n我覺得這個當然因為現在很特殊我覺得該修法就修法我剛剛講了我們在很多的法律上的追溯我們都還定定追溯期了對不對然後現在是無限期的這樣子一直直接的追溯所以我覺得這個當然這是比較長期的但是在最短期我希望能夠有一個比較屬於通案性的來協助這些不知所措的這些家庭好不好\n好 謝謝那我們現在會請吳思堯委員發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.929 --> 00:18.339\n主席在那個發言之前我想要做一下譴責就是因為今天我們邀請非常多的單位但是邀請的首長很多都用請假的方式那有一些當然因為在可能其他的委員會我知道他們有這個業務報告\n\n00:20.640 --> 00:39.031\n那這個就情有可原但是也很多也不曉得為什麼就直接就用請假的方式我覺得這對我們司法法治委員會是相當的不尊重這部分一定要這個云以譴責來那個表示我們的意見那接下來我請我們的移民署今天是是副署長還有陸委會也是副主委\n\n00:53.162 --> 01:13.712\n那個王委員那個有關今天有很多人請假這件事情我們剛剛有處理剛剛有委員有提出來那我這邊的意思是說因為有一些人之前也都沒有跟我提那我今天早上才知道那確實有兩位部會首長是在那個國防外交委員會那邊對我知道有的其他的他就是\n\n01:14.412 --> 01:37.787\n給我們的理由就是因公務啦那事實上細節是什麼我們會再了解對因為主席我剛剛就講就是說因為我知道有一些首長他是有在其他的委員會而且事前請假那如果是還臨時性的請假只是說用公務我覺得這是非常非常不尊重我們司法法制委員會而且你要請假你也可以提早來說而不是這樣臨時性的來通知這個我們的\n\n01:41.849 --> 01:58.655\n招委跟主席這是非常非常不禮貌的所以我們當然予以譴責謝謝主席今天的我們的主要的這個題目叫做言論自由事實上過去包含民進黨\n\n01:59.835 --> 02:02.857\n非常遵從的鄭南榮先生100%的言論自由賴清德總統在選舉的時候也說他支持100%的言論自由到了最近呢賴清德總統又去祭拜鄭南榮先生仍然在講100%的言論自由\n\n02:19.446 --> 02:34.839\n但是現在看起來民進黨執政之後這個所謂的百分之百的言論自由這個百分之百它的含水量變得非常非常的高因為它加了很多的前提好可是今天呢我為什麼來找移民署跟陸委會\n\n02:37.461 --> 02:50.956\n因為最近這兩天大家都可以看到不只是網路上的炸鍋還有我們各個民意代表選民服我相信包含民進黨的委員因為在你們的選區裡面在你們的選民裡面也有很多來自於陸配或者陸配的家庭\n\n02:59.085 --> 03:08.932\n特別是最近所去調查的要求來台灣尤其在這次影響最深的就是民國93年之前而且你取得身份證的這些陸配所以可以看到最近其實我們收到的很多的選民陳情是來自於他們的子女因為他們到台灣來嫁到台灣來都已經二三十年了\n\n03:28.907 --> 03:34.589\n結果我們現在呢我們的陸委會跟移民署卻是一個鋪天蓋地的要求已經來台灣二三十年的陸配要求他們在三個月之內必須提出證明在中國大陸已經撤銷戶籍撤銷國籍的相關的證明否則的話三個月內就要被除籍\n\n03:58.178 --> 04:15.116\n就要被除籍所以可以看到陆配的家庭一片哀嚎有很多的子女说今天难道我的妈妈要变成政治人球了吗我的妈妈来了二三十年她很多的原生家庭可能原生家庭都不在了\n\n04:15.757 --> 04:38.399\n那他如何到已經來台灣三十年了然後突然要求他三個月內去拿到這些資料否則你在台灣就被取消戶籍所以我想請問一下移民署跟陸委會我也看到你們昨天也分別的宣布一些補救的措施因為這個實在是我覺得對台灣\n\n04:39.480 --> 04:42.163\n來講台灣真的應該還是很有人道的而且對於陸配的家庭你如果說你今天說什麼以國安調查就是你來台灣可能幾年內那他比較好去取得這些資料可是事實上因為在後來我們的疫情之後這些其實都已經清查過了\n\n04:59.281 --> 05:23.998\n最先影響最大的一批反而是來台灣二三十年的這些陸配所以我想請問一下陸委會或移民署你們的補救措施是什麼還是說通通只是用個案處理還是某一些程度你們可以用通案的方式去處理不要造成這些陸配家庭他們的大恐慌\n\n05:25.140 --> 05:47.752\n跟委員報告一下其實根據兩岸條例9-1在2004年的修法就是說在2004年修法之前已經拿到台灣身份的陸配他必須在六個月之內繳回在大陸除籍的證明否則就是要去除掉台灣的身份\n\n05:49.986 --> 06:14.873\n現在有發生很多啊2004年民國93年20幾年前而且那個時候拿到身份證要8年對不對所以他很多都已經來了真的二三十年了當時他拿出來的時候他說他都已經繳過那現在他拿不出來所以我還想說你們現在都是要用個案處理還是有通案處理辦法委員講的沒有錯就是說其實按照法律條文如果要嚴格執行\n\n06:19.102 --> 06:33.613\n這些都沒有繳的實際上政府機關就必須要把他台灣的身份去除掉你們二三十年不執行這個法律所以我們現在做清查然後給大家時間回去拿其實就是在法律之外三個月之內要繳出來時間合理嗎\n\n06:47.263 --> 06:56.389\n他來台灣三十年你讓他三個月內找出來不然的話你就變成政治人球你要讓他淪為政治難民嗎他的原生家庭可能都不在了\n\n06:57.786 --> 07:19.077\n原生家庭在不在跟他有沒有辦法回到那邊的派出所取得文件那是兩回事情就算他家庭不在了他如果能夠回到那邊的派出所取得文件那個還是可以的三個月之內要回去對那我們現在的三個月之內要回去他即便臥床了對不對跟委員報告一下他有任何的原因了沒有錯所以\n\n07:19.497 --> 07:42.792\n任何人任何這個家庭他如果說他覺得他提出說他確實有什麼樣的困難譬如說他說這個當年他的身份證件是從什麼救災總會來幫他申請有特別提到有的已經交給當時的中華救災總會了那這個東西我們都要去了解到底有沒有這回事\n\n07:43.712 --> 08:03.509\n所以我覺得現在對我們來講的話就是說我們願意讓所有的收到我們通知的這些家庭或是陸配他們提出來說他們有什麼樣的理由是確實有辦法拿回去因為這兩天我知道我剛剛講過其實因為我們其實服務案件是不分藍綠的\n\n08:04.890 --> 08:13.242\n你能講說陸配指頭給在野黨嗎我真的覺得門心自問副主委你也是明代出身你該講你當時的選民沒有陸配會來自陸配家庭嗎今天讓他們雞飛狗跳\n\n08:20.192 --> 08:28.116\n讓他們覺得飽受這些壓力合理嗎你於心何忍我要問的是今天很多的委員通通來找昨天移民署也來我辦公室來做說明我們看很多委員都在急著在處理這些選民服務因為他們非常著急三個月其實很短的時間\n\n08:43.462 --> 09:08.236\n好所以我才要求再透過這次諮詢我希望包含陸委會跟移民署你們應該要有一些通案性的解決老師說我們在很多有法律的部分比如說我們什麼追稅即便是確定的欠稅它的追溯期也是15年啊通緝犯可以通緝幾年對不對你只有30年之前你要求你給我交出來\n\n09:09.933 --> 09:32.652\n你覺得合理嗎是不是我們如果在很多的法律上都有一個追溯的期間老實說啦如果他們是共匪他們是共諜潛伏在這邊二三十年你們自己政府都不執法啊剛講說這是依法執行對啊什麼時候定的法呢2004年啊民國93年距離現在多久了\n\n09:33.493 --> 09:49.432\n我說難聽點這個裡面國民黨執政民進黨執政民進黨弱權這個很重要那你們過去九年在睡覺嗎是不是為什麼要讓老百姓這麼痛苦好我因為我時間有限我可不可以請移民署你們有我知道你們今天也被罵爆了啦對不對\n\n09:51.798 --> 10:16.518\n所以請問移民署有沒有一些相關的一些通案的方式可以去解決呢?謝謝委員在這裡先跟委員說明一下其實兩岸分配以來有36萬的大陸配合其中已經獲得在台定居的共有14萬多人那我們經查大多數的人都有繳付上司員籍的證明\n\n10:17.259 --> 10:41.952\n那目前這個部分沒有繳納的這個部分大概有多少萬我知道有好幾萬人一萬出頭那這個部分可能我們也是在想說它是不是疫情的關係或者它其他的因素比方說它的健康的因素或者有少數政治風險比方法輪功的\n\n10:42.492 --> 11:08.037\n比方假設這些他們沒有辦法返回中國大陸來辦理我們會就這些個案我們來做處理那民眾呢如果在實際上有真的無法克服的困難那我們也開一個那個設有服務的電子信箱還有我們全省有22個服務站都有電話我們也希望說\n\n11:08.897 --> 11:23.773\n這些個案他即使來反映那我們針對這些特殊的個案我們會同陸委會跟海基會來嚴處然後尋求一個妥適的解決之道我要講的就是說我們現在各委員辦公室說實在你們也確實\n\n11:25.094 --> 11:42.944\n也一定疲於奔命但疲於奔命也是應該的因為大家都碰到我們現在有的委員甚至說我們大家聯合起來聯合起來因為我這邊有兩三個其他委員有兩三個都有這樣大家聯合起來一起把它說清楚講明白所以我希望我在這邊為什麼要透過諮詢我希望\n\n11:45.686 --> 11:55.610\n移民署還有陸委會能夠延伸一個就是他可以適用是屬於比較通案型的有一些比如說在什麼樣的狀況之下你可以給予他緩衝的期間比如我剛剛講說有的因為他在臥床啊你讓他怎麼去啊你要讓他怎麼去呢對不對或者他現在真的就已經沒有辦法他認為他真的原生家不是說你原生家庭啊沒有關係啊反正你就去啊對不對\n\n12:13.876 --> 12:39.749\n不是每一個這個陸配尤其他可能有一些年齡了對不對所以我覺得我們今天在處理這個事情的時候第一個基於人道的處理好不好因為其實我們現在接獲的大部分都是來自於陸配的子女而且他們憤憤不平覺得怎麼會突然他的媽媽要變成有這樣的一個待遇\n\n12:40.919 --> 12:51.750\n好不好所以我希望你們能夠在最短的時間內有一些可以通案的就通案我剛才講了嘛第一個我們先要怪罪是什麼政府你不作為啊是不是二十多年了\n\n12:56.260 --> 13:17.759\n你如果依法是二十幾年前定的法律你政府不作為現在造成人民他的不便請問一下錯誤的是人民還是錯誤的是政府請問一下副主委這個事情其實從2004年到現在藍綠政黨都輪替過所以這個事情我認為就是它不是藍綠的問題而是這個制度的問題然後\n\n13:22.583 --> 13:50.335\n你執行就有問題嘛沒有錯那所以委員講的沒有錯啦就是說我們會去設計一些這個怎麼樣的標準譬如說年齡或者是健康這些東西我們都會把它考慮進去但是因為現在的法律規定就是這樣子我們也沒有辦法說透過解釋然後做不執行所以目前的話我們會在法律跟人道之間做一個最大的權衡謝謝而且我覺得\n\n13:51.616 --> 14:17.439\n我覺得這個當然因為現在很特殊我覺得該修法就修法我剛剛講了我們在很多的法律上的追溯我們都還定定追溯期了對不對然後現在是無限期的這樣子一直直接的追溯所以我覺得這個當然這是比較長期的但是在最短期我希望能夠有一個比較屬於通案性的來協助這些不知所措的這些家庭好不好\n\n14:20.526 --> 14:21.874\n好謝謝那我們現在會請吳思堯委員發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.929,"end":18.339,"text":"主席在那個發言之前我想要做一下譴責就是因為今天我們邀請非常多的單位但是邀請的首長很多都用請假的方式那有一些當然因為在可能其他的委員會我知道他們有這個業務報告"},{"start":20.64,"end":39.031,"text":"那這個就情有可原但是也很多也不曉得為什麼就直接就用請假的方式我覺得這對我們司法法治委員會是相當的不尊重這部分一定要這個云以譴責來那個表示我們的意見那接下來我請我們的移民署今天是是副署長還有陸委會也是副主委"},{"start":53.162,"end":73.712,"text":"那個王委員那個有關今天有很多人請假這件事情我們剛剛有處理剛剛有委員有提出來那我這邊的意思是說因為有一些人之前也都沒有跟我提那我今天早上才知道那確實有兩位部會首長是在那個國防外交委員會那邊對我知道有的其他的他就是"},{"start":74.412,"end":97.787,"text":"給我們的理由就是因公務啦那事實上細節是什麼我們會再了解對因為主席我剛剛就講就是說因為我知道有一些首長他是有在其他的委員會而且事前請假那如果是還臨時性的請假只是說用公務我覺得這是非常非常不尊重我們司法法制委員會而且你要請假你也可以提早來說而不是這樣臨時性的來通知這個我們的"},{"start":101.849,"end":118.655,"text":"招委跟主席這是非常非常不禮貌的所以我們當然予以譴責謝謝主席今天的我們的主要的這個題目叫做言論自由事實上過去包含民進黨"},{"start":119.835,"end":122.857,"text":"非常遵從的鄭南榮先生100%的言論自由賴清德總統在選舉的時候也說他支持100%的言論自由到了最近呢賴清德總統又去祭拜鄭南榮先生仍然在講100%的言論自由"},{"start":139.446,"end":154.839,"text":"但是現在看起來民進黨執政之後這個所謂的百分之百的言論自由這個百分之百它的含水量變得非常非常的高因為它加了很多的前提好 可是今天呢我為什麼來找移民署跟陸委會"},{"start":157.461,"end":170.956,"text":"因為最近這兩天 大家都可以看到不只是網路上的炸鍋 還有我們各個民意代表選民服 我相信包含民進黨的委員因為在你們的選區裡面 在你們的選民裡面也有很多來自於陸配或者陸配的家庭"},{"start":179.085,"end":188.932,"text":"特別是最近所去調查的要求來台灣尤其在這次影響最深的就是民國93年之前而且你取得身份證的這些陸配所以可以看到最近其實我們收到的很多的選民陳情是來自於他們的子女因為他們到台灣來 嫁到台灣來都已經二三十年了"},{"start":208.907,"end":214.589,"text":"結果我們現在呢我們的陸委會跟移民署卻是一個鋪天蓋地的要求已經來台灣二三十年的陸配要求他們在三個月之內必須提出證明在中國大陸已經撤銷戶籍撤銷國籍的相關的證明否則的話三個月內就要被除籍"},{"start":238.178,"end":255.116,"text":"就要被除籍所以可以看到陆配的家庭一片哀嚎有很多的子女说今天难道我的妈妈要变成政治人球了吗我的妈妈来了二三十年她很多的原生家庭可能原生家庭都不在了"},{"start":255.757,"end":278.399,"text":"那他如何到已經來台灣三十年了然後突然要求他三個月內去拿到這些資料否則你在台灣就被取消戶籍所以我想請問一下移民署跟陸委會我也看到你們昨天也分別的宣布一些補救的措施因為這個實在是我覺得對台灣"},{"start":279.48,"end":282.163,"text":"來講台灣真的應該還是很有人道的而且對於陸配的家庭你如果說你今天說什麼以國安調查就是你來台灣可能幾年內那他比較好去取得這些資料可是事實上因為在後來我們的疫情之後這些其實都已經清查過了"},{"start":299.281,"end":323.998,"text":"最先影響最大的一批反而是來台灣二三十年的這些陸配所以我想請問一下陸委會或移民署你們的補救措施是什麼還是說通通只是用個案處理還是某一些程度你們可以用通案的方式去處理不要造成這些陸配家庭他們的大恐慌"},{"start":325.14,"end":347.752,"text":"跟委員報告一下 其實根據兩岸條例9-1在2004年的修法就是說在2004年修法之前已經拿到台灣身份的陸配他必須在六個月之內繳回在大陸除籍的證明否則就是要去除掉台灣的身份"},{"start":349.986,"end":374.873,"text":"現在有發生很多啊2004年民國93年20幾年前而且那個時候拿到身份證要8年對不對所以他很多都已經來了真的二三十年了當時他拿出來的時候他說他都已經繳過那現在他拿不出來所以我還想說你們現在都是要用個案處理還是有通案處理辦法委員講的沒有錯就是說其實按照法律條文如果要嚴格執行"},{"start":379.102,"end":393.613,"text":"這些都沒有繳的 實際上政府機關就必須要把他台灣的身份去除掉你們二三十年不執行這個法律所以我們現在做清查然後給大家時間回去拿其實就是在法律之外三個月之內要繳出來時間合理嗎"},{"start":407.263,"end":416.389,"text":"他來台灣三十年 你讓他三個月內找出來不然的話 你就變成政治人球你要讓他淪為政治難民嗎他的原生家庭可能都不在了"},{"start":417.786,"end":439.077,"text":"原生家庭在不在跟他有沒有辦法回到那邊的派出所取得文件那是兩回事情就算他家庭不在了他如果能夠回到那邊的派出所取得文件那個還是可以的三個月之內要回去對那我們現在的三個月之內要回去他即便臥床了對不對跟委員報告一下他有任何的原因了沒有錯所以"},{"start":439.497,"end":462.792,"text":"任何人任何這個家庭他如果說他覺得他提出說他確實有什麼樣的困難譬如說他說這個當年他的身份證件是從什麼救災總會來幫他申請有特別提到有的已經交給當時的中華救災總會了那這個東西我們都要去了解到底有沒有這回事"},{"start":463.712,"end":483.509,"text":"所以我覺得現在對我們來講的話就是說我們願意讓所有的收到我們通知的這些家庭或是陸配他們提出來說他們有什麼樣的理由是確實有辦法拿回去因為這兩天我知道我剛剛講過其實因為我們其實服務案件是不分藍綠的"},{"start":484.89,"end":493.242,"text":"你能講說陸配指頭給在野黨嗎我真的覺得門心自問副主委你也是明代出身你該講你當時的選民沒有陸配會來自陸配家庭嗎今天讓他們雞飛狗跳"},{"start":500.192,"end":508.116,"text":"讓他們覺得飽受這些壓力合理嗎你於心何忍我要問的是今天很多的委員通通來找昨天移民署也來我辦公室來做說明我們看很多委員都在急著在處理這些選民服務因為他們非常著急三個月其實很短的時間"},{"start":523.462,"end":548.236,"text":"好 所以我才要求再透過這次諮詢我希望 包含陸委會跟移民署你們應該要有一些通案性的解決老師說 我們在很多有法律的部分比如說我們什麼追稅 即便是確定的欠稅它的追溯期也是15年啊通緝犯可以通緝幾年 對不對你只有30年之前 你要求你給我交出來"},{"start":549.933,"end":572.652,"text":"你覺得合理嗎是不是我們如果在很多的法律上都有一個追溯的期間老實說啦如果他們是共匪他們是共諜潛伏在這邊二三十年你們自己政府都不執法啊剛講說這是依法執行對啊什麼時候定的法呢2004年啊民國93年距離現在多久了"},{"start":573.493,"end":589.432,"text":"我說難聽點 這個裡面國民黨執政 民進黨執政 民進黨弱權這個很重要那你們過去九年在睡覺嗎 是不是為什麼要讓老百姓這麼痛苦好 我因為我時間有限 我可不可以請移民署你們有 我知道你們今天也被罵爆了啦 對不對"},{"start":591.798,"end":616.518,"text":"所以請問移民署有沒有一些相關的一些通案的方式可以去解決呢?謝謝委員在這裡先跟委員說明一下其實兩岸分配以來有36萬的大陸配合其中已經獲得在台定居的共有14萬多人那我們經查大多數的人都有繳付上司員籍的證明"},{"start":617.259,"end":641.952,"text":"那目前這個部分沒有繳納的這個部分大概有多少萬 我知道有好幾萬人一萬出頭那這個部分可能我們也是在想說它是不是疫情的關係或者它其他的因素比方說它的健康的因素或者有少數政治風險 比方法輪功的"},{"start":642.492,"end":668.037,"text":"比方假設這些他們沒有辦法返回中國大陸來辦理我們會就這些個案我們來做處理那民眾呢如果在實際上有真的無法克服的困難那我們也開一個那個設有服務的電子信箱還有我們全省有22個服務站都有電話我們也希望說"},{"start":668.897,"end":683.773,"text":"這些個案他即使來反映那我們針對這些特殊的個案我們會同陸委會跟海基會來嚴處然後尋求一個妥適的解決之道我要講的就是說我們現在各委員辦公室說實在你們也確實"},{"start":685.094,"end":702.944,"text":"也一定疲於奔命但疲於奔命也是應該的因為大家都碰到我們現在有的委員甚至說我們大家聯合起來聯合起來因為我這邊有兩三個其他委員有兩三個 都有這樣大家聯合起來一起把它說清楚講明白所以我希望我在這邊為什麼要透過諮詢我希望"},{"start":705.686,"end":715.61,"text":"移民署還有陸委會能夠延伸一個就是他可以適用是屬於比較通案型的有一些 比如說在什麼樣的狀況之下你可以給予他緩衝的期間比如我剛剛講說有的因為他在臥床啊你讓他怎麼去啊你要讓他怎麼去呢 對不對或者他現在真的就已經沒有辦法他認為他真的原生家不是說你原生家庭啊沒有關係啊反正你就去啊 對不對"},{"start":733.876,"end":759.749,"text":"不是每一個 這個陸配尤其他可能有一些年齡了 對不對所以我覺得我們今天在處理這個事情的時候第一個基於人道的處理 好不好因為其實我們現在接獲的大部分都是來自於陸配的子女而且他們憤憤不平覺得怎麼會突然他的媽媽要變成有這樣的一個待遇"},{"start":760.919,"end":771.75,"text":"好不好 所以我希望你們能夠在最短的時間內有一些可以通案的就通案 我剛才講了嘛第一個 我們先要怪罪是什麼政府你不作為啊 是不是二十多年了"},{"start":776.26,"end":797.759,"text":"你如果依法是二十幾年前定的法律你政府不作為現在造成人民他的不便請問一下錯誤的是人民還是錯誤的是政府請問一下副主委這個事情其實從2004年到現在藍綠政黨都輪替過所以這個事情我認為就是它不是藍綠的問題而是這個制度的問題然後"},{"start":802.583,"end":830.335,"text":"你執行就有問題嘛沒有錯那所以委員講的沒有錯啦就是說我們會去設計一些這個怎麼樣的標準譬如說年齡或者是健康這些東西我們都會把它考慮進去但是因為現在的法律規定就是這樣子我們也沒有辦法說透過解釋然後做不執行所以目前的話我們會在法律跟人道之間做一個最大的權衡謝謝而且我覺得"},{"start":831.616,"end":857.439,"text":"我覺得這個當然因為現在很特殊我覺得該修法就修法我剛剛講了我們在很多的法律上的追溯我們都還定定追溯期了對不對然後現在是無限期的這樣子一直直接的追溯所以我覺得這個當然這是比較長期的但是在最短期我希望能夠有一個比較屬於通案性的來協助這些不知所措的這些家庭好不好"},{"start":860.526,"end":861.874,"text":"好 謝謝那我們現在會請吳思堯委員發言"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":570,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（10時42分）謝謝主席。主席，在發言之前，我想做一下譴責，因為今天我們邀請非常多單位，但是單位首長很多都用請假方式而缺席，當然有一些人可能是在其他委員會備詢，我知道他們有業務報告，這情有可原，但也有很多是不曉得為什麼就直接請假，我覺得這對司法及法制委員會是相當不尊重，這部分一定要予以譴責，以表示我們的意見。","接下來我要請移民署副署長，還有陸委會副主委。"],["主席：麻煩移民署副署長，還有副主委。","王委員，有關今天有很多人請假的這件事情，我們剛剛有處理，因為剛剛也有委員提出來，我這邊的意思是，因為有一些人之前並沒有跟我請假，我是今天早上才知道，確實有兩位部會首長是在外交及國防委員會那邊……"],["王委員鴻薇：對，我知道有其他的委員會。"],["主席：其他的給我們的理由就是因公務，事實上細節是什麼，我們會再了解。"],["王委員鴻薇：對，就像我剛剛講的，我知道有一些首長是在其他委員會，而且是事前請假，如果是臨時性的請假，只是說另有公務，我覺得這是非常非常不尊重司法及法制委員會，而且要請假也應該提早說，而不是這樣臨時性的通知召委、主席，這是非常不禮貌的，所以我們當然要予以譴責，謝謝主席。","今天我們的主要題目叫做「言論自由」，事實上，包含過去民進黨非常尊崇的鄭南榕先生，他是支持百分之百言論自由；賴清德總統在選舉的時候，也說他支持百分之百的言論自由，到了最近，賴清德總統又去祭拜鄭南榕先生，仍然在講百分之百的言論自由，但是現在看起來，民進黨執政之後，所謂百分之百的言論自由，這個「百分之百」，含水量卻變得非常非常高，因為加了很多前提。","今天我為什麼來找移民署跟陸委會？因為最近這兩天，大家可以看到不只網路上炸鍋，還有我們各個民意代表的選民服務，相信包含民進黨委員也是，因為在你們的選區裡面、你們的選民裡面，應該也有很多陸配或者陸配家庭，特別是最近你們所要求的調查，影響最深的應該是民國93年之前來臺，而且已經取得身分證的這些陸配。最近我們收到很多選民陳情是來自於他們的子女，因為他們到臺灣來、嫁到臺灣來都已經二、三十年，結果現在陸委會跟移民署卻是鋪天蓋地的要求這些已經來臺灣二、三十年的陸配，要在三個月內提出在中國大陸已經撤銷戶籍、撤銷國籍的相關證明，否則就要被除籍。可以看到陸配的家庭是一片哀嚎，有很多子女說：難道今天我的媽媽要變成政治人球了嗎？他們的媽媽來了二、三十年，其中有很多人的原生家庭可能都不在了，現在突然要求他們在三個月內拿到這些資料，否則就會被取消在臺灣的戶籍。對此，我想請問移民署跟陸委會，我當然也看到你們昨天分別宣布了一些補救措施，因為臺灣應該還是很有人道的國家，而且對陸配的家庭而言，如果今天是基於國安理由來調查，可能就是針對來臺灣幾年的人，他們比較好去取得這些資料，可是事實上，後來因為疫情影響，這些其實都已經清查過了，這次調查影響最大的一批，反而是來臺灣已經二、三十年的這些陸配。所以我想請問一下陸委會或移民署，你們的補救措施是什麼？通通都只用個案處理？還是某一些程度可以用通案方式處理，不要造成這些陸配家庭的大恐慌？"],["梁副主任委員文傑：跟委員報告一下，其實根據2004年兩岸人民關係條例第九條之一的修法，在2004年修法之前已經拿到臺灣身分的陸配，他必須在六個月之內繳回在大陸除籍的證明，否則就是要去除掉臺灣的身分……"],["王委員鴻薇：現在有發生很多，2004年、民國93年是二十幾年前……"],["梁副主任委員文傑：沒有錯。"],["王委員鴻薇：而且那個時候拿到身分證要8年，所以很多人真的都已經來了二、三十年了，而且當時他拿出來，他說他當時都已經繳過，但現在他拿不出來，所以我才想，你們現在都是要個案處理，還是有通案處理的辦法？"],["梁副主任委員文傑：委員講得沒有錯，其實按照法律條文，如果要嚴格執行，這些都沒有繳的，實際上政府機關就必須要把他臺灣的身分去除掉，我們現在……"],["王委員鴻薇：你們二、三十年不執行這個法律，民國93年就有法律，你不執行，然後你突然現在……"],["梁副主任委員文傑：所以我們現在做清查，然後給大家時間回去拿，其實就是在法律之外……"],["王委員鴻薇：好，那這個時間合理嗎？三個月之內要繳出來，時間合理嗎？"],["梁副主任委員文傑：我們現在接到……"],["王委員鴻薇：他來臺灣三十年，你讓他三個月內繳出來，不然的話他就變成政治人球，你要讓他淪為政治難民嗎？他的原生家庭可能都不在了。"],["梁副主任委員文傑：原生家庭在不在跟他有沒有辦法回到那邊的派出所取得文件，那是兩回事，就算他的家庭不在了，他如果能夠回到那邊的派出所取得文件，那個還是可以的。"],["王委員鴻薇：三個月之內要回去，即便他臥床了，也是三個月之內要回去，對不對？"],["梁副主任委員文傑：跟委員報告一下……"],["王委員鴻薇：他有任何的原因……"],["梁副主任委員文傑：沒有錯，所以任何人、任何家庭，如果他提出他確實有什麼樣的困難，譬如說，他說當年他的身分證件是什麼救助總會來幫他申請的……"],["王委員鴻薇：對，有特別提到有的已經繳給當時的中華救助總會了。"],["梁副主任委員文傑：這些東西我們都要去了解到底有沒有這回事，所以我覺得現在對我們來講，我們願意讓所有收到我們通知的這些家庭或是陸配提出他們有什麼樣的理由是確實沒有辦法拿回……"],["王委員鴻薇：副主委，我剛剛講過，我們服務案件是不分藍綠的，你能講說陸配只投給在野黨嗎？我真的覺得，捫心自問，副主委，你也是民代出身，你敢講你當時的選民沒有陸配或來自陸配家庭嗎？今天讓他們雞飛狗跳，讓他們覺得飽受這些壓力，合理嗎？你於心何忍？"],["梁副主任委員文傑：報告委員，這跟藍綠無關。"],["王委員鴻薇：我要問的是，今天很多的委員通通來找……昨天移民署也來我辦公室說明，我們看很多委員都急著在處理這些選民服務，因為他們非常著急，三個月其實是很短的時間，所以我才要求再透過這次質詢，我希望陸委會跟移民署應該要有一些通案性的解決。老實說，我們在很多法律的部分，比如說追稅，即便是確定的欠稅，它的追溯期也是十五年，通緝犯可以通緝幾年？現在幾乎是三十年之前，你要求他們交出來，你覺得合理嗎？我們在很多的法律上都有一個追溯的期間，老實說，如果他們是共匪、他們是共諜，潛伏在這邊二、三十年，你們自己政府都不執法！剛剛講說這是依法執行，對啊！什麼時候定的法呢？2004年、民國93年，距離現在多久了？我說難聽點，這段時間裡面國民黨執政、民進黨執政，民進黨如果覺得這個很重要，那你們過去九年在睡覺嗎？為什麼要讓老百姓這麼痛苦？因為我的時間有限，我知道移民署你們今天也被罵爆了啦！請問移民署有沒有一些相關的通案方式可以去解決呢？"],["陳副署長建成：謝謝委員，在這裡先跟委員說明一下，其實兩岸婚配以來有36萬的大陸配偶，其中已經獲得在臺定居的共有十四萬多人，我們經查，大多數的人都有繳附喪失原籍的證明，目前沒有繳納的這個部分，我們現在原則上……"],["王委員鴻薇：大概有多少萬人？我知道有好幾萬人。"],["陳副署長建成：一萬出頭，這個部分我們也在想他是不是因為疫情的關係或者其他的因素，比方說他的健康因素，或者少數有政治風險，比方法輪功的，假設這些人沒有辦法返回中國大陸來辦理，我們會就這些個案來做處理。民眾如果在實際上有真的無法克服的困難，我們也設有服務的電子信箱，還有我們全省有22個服務站都有電話，我們也希望這些個案即時來反映，針對這些特殊的個案，我們會會同陸委會跟海基會研處，尋求一個妥適的解決之道。"],["王委員鴻薇：我要講的就是，現在各委員辦公室，說實在你們確實也一定疲於奔命，但疲於奔命也是應該的，因為大家都碰到，現在有的委員甚至說我們大家聯合起來，因為我這邊有兩、三個，其他委員也有兩、三個，大家聯合起來一起把它說清楚講明白，所以我在這邊為什麼要透過質詢？我希望移民署還有陸委會能夠研商一個屬於比較通案型的，在什麼樣的狀況之下，你可以給予他緩衝的期間，比如我剛剛講的，有的因為他在臥床，你要讓他怎麼去呢？或者他現在真的就已經沒有辦法，他認為他的原生家庭……不是說跟他的原生家庭沒有關係，反正你就去。不是每一個陸配都是這樣，尤其他可能有一些年齡了，所以我覺得我們今天在處理這個事情的時候，第一個，基於人道的處理，好不好？因為我們現在接獲的大部分都是來自於陸配的子女，而且他們忿忿不平，覺得他的媽媽怎麼會突然變成遭到這樣的一個待遇。所以我希望你們能夠在最短的時間內處理，有一些可以通案的就通案，我剛才講了，第一個，我們現在怪罪的是政府的不作為，是不是？二十多年了，如果依法，是二十幾年前定的法律，政府的不作為現在造成人民的不便，請問一下，錯誤的是人民還是錯誤的是政府？請問一下副主委？"],["梁副主任委員文傑：這個事情從2004年到現在，藍綠政黨都輪替過，所以這個事情我認為不是藍綠的問題，而是制度的問題，然後……"],["王委員鴻薇：你執行就有問題嘛！"],["梁副主任委員文傑：沒有錯，所以委員講的沒有錯啦！就是我們會去設計一些標準，譬如說年齡或者是健康，這些東西我們都會把它考慮進去，但是因為現在的法律規定就是這樣子，我們也沒有辦法透過解釋，然後不執行，所以目前我們會在法律跟人道之間做一個最大的權衡，謝謝。"],["王委員鴻薇：當然因為現在很特殊，我覺得該修法就修法，我剛剛講了，我們在很多法律上的追溯都還訂定了追溯期，然後現在是無限期的一直追溯，這個當然是比較長期的，但是在最短期，我希望能夠有一個比較屬於通案性的方式來協助這些不知所措的家庭，好不好？"],["主席：謝謝。","下一位請吳思瑤委員發言，依照剛剛會議宣告，吳思瑤委員詢答完畢之後休息5分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-7","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","莊瑞雄","林倩綺","王義川","沈發惠","王鴻薇","吳思瑤","翁曉玲","陳培瑜","傅崐萁","許宇甄","羅智強","張啓楷"],"page_start":187,"meetingDate":["2025-04-09"],"gazette_id":"1143501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143501_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員、數位發展部部長、教育\n部部長、大陸委員會主任委員、內政部移民署署長、國家安全局局長及國家人權委員會率所屬相\n關單位列席就「言論自由不在？界線誰說了算！國家介入特定政治言論之法律邊界」進行專題報\n告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143501_00004"}}}