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00:00:44,860\n許問蔡局長局長剛剛其實聽到您有關於整體的國安調查的時候你有講到就是中國對於台灣的滲透喔國安局或者是相關的單位這裡沒有不敢辦只有就是看資料到哪裡我們辦到哪裡而且沒有分顏色本期聽了其實覺得非常開心因為一直以來我在國防外交委員會有非常關注的就是中國的滲透從過去我在質詢國防部的時候提到了那就是不論現役或退役金人他們因為資金的關係\n\n3\n00:00:45,780 --> 00:01:07,589\n所以有相關的這種地下會對又或者是金融陷阱導致他們不得已成為所謂的共諜或者是洩密者那這個部分今天在報告當中也特別提出來了159件當中有95人其實現役或退役金人佔了60%而且呢現在媒體也都報導出去了就是在報告當中也提到了\n\n4\n00:01:08,803 --> 00:01:35,697\n會有黑道跟暴力所謂組織犯罪地下錢莊等等來做掩護所以顯然這個問題它就如同我們賴總統所宣示的一樣就是其實中國這個敵對勢力正在方方面面的入侵那麼本席想詢問的就是除了您現在所提出來的這些樣態之外有沒有注意到另外一個問題那就是有關於來夏業\n\n5\n00:01:36,697 --> 00:01:58,196\n學術交流是不是也成為台灣滲透的一個樣態本席曾經發布過一個臉書啦就是在國民黨發起罷免吳思瑤的這一位人士叫做張克進他其實過去我不知道他為何自稱文化人但他比較多的文化都是在對岸\n\n6\n00:01:59,118 --> 00:02:00,921\n包括中國相關的這些教育部門然後文宣部門統戰部門去頒發這個所謂這個認證給他那麼\n\n7\n00:02:09,889 --> 00:02:36,004\n他基本上他就是充滿了紅色履歷那麼他要來罷免一個被中國所認證是台獨幫手台獨推手的吳思堯我那時候就覺得說這真的很可笑所以我開始就去了解到學術單位來聘請人的時候對岸的學術單位來聘請人的時候是不是其實也充滿了紅色危機這個是本席所接收到的一個\n\n8\n00:02:37,345 --> 00:02:45,092\n算是爆料這一位稱作卓銀鏘他任職於閩南師範大學\n\n9\n00:02:47,079 --> 00:03:10,694\n那當時我就在想說這個人有什麼好來做爆料的呢為什麼他的任職有人要把這樣的一個提醒我來注意後來我去查了發現如果你要在閩南師範大學來做教授的話要被聘任的話你必須要有中國共產黨的黨籍也就是中國人民共和國的國籍那麼而且要對中國共產黨要有擁護\n\n10\n00:03:13,456 --> 00:03:41,393\n那我就想問不知道局長有沒有收到類似相關的情資這個人有在注意當中嗎因為我想要問的是他有中國籍嗎還是他是雙重國籍現在是沒有放棄台灣籍而我去了解這個人的時候我發現如果我上網Google過去他曾經在2023年有所謂拿政府標案最後不當裁員掏空的狀況那我本來想說如果他只是一個經濟犯\n\n11\n00:03:42,794 --> 00:03:47,157\n那又有什麼好注意的呢結果一查不得了從國防部的參謀本部再到國科會再到國安局再到法務部調查局他在2006年也就是馬英九執政的時期\n\n12\n00:03:58,322 --> 00:04:14,369\n他接了許多相關的標案而且當任主持人計劃人而他在2016年也就是政黨輪替之後他2017年2016年左右的時間他離開了公職相關單位所以我想詢問這樣的人他在2025年3月6號\n\n13\n00:04:21,653 --> 00:04:48,915\n然後現在到中國的閩南師範大學去這樣的人會不會是另外一個國安破口而這個國安破口是不是從學術的角度開始成為滲透另外要注意的部分先請局長回應對這部分我們有在注意那也謝謝委員的提醒那有沒有可能透過一種學術的交流變成是一個國安在管理上要注意的一個漏洞這我們有在注意\n\n14\n00:04:49,718 --> 00:04:59,772\n好所以說你們其實已經有在注意跟啟動相關的調查了嗎好那麼我想要請就教一下保務部陳局長委員好局長因為他曾經有參加過\n\n15\n00:05:07,973 --> 00:05:28,641\n法務資安整體防禦基礎建設先導案而且他還是技術顧問所以他掌握了多少資安方面的顧問為什麼我會從調查局先來問起是因為2015到2016是一個目前最近近台灣目前最近近現在2025的一個時間點\n\n16\n00:05:30,982 --> 00:05:58,062\n那麼他所了解我們的基礎建設當中到底滲入多少了解多少而他又可以帶走多少我們在資安上面的機密保護部有了解嗎報告委員您提到的這個採購案在來之前我是沒有了解到但是我回去以後我會馬上了解然後跟委員來報告好那國防部我想問一下軍情局\n\n17\n00:06:01,752 --> 00:06:10,606\n因為我們知道我們前一陣子中國有刻意的去洩露說我們所謂自痛電軍相關的這些人士當時國防部的回應會是說\n\n18\n00:06:13,628 --> 00:06:35,021\n這個可能是錯誤的資料假訊息或不重要但是我就想要問了相關的這個人他是不是真的掌握有具有戰略的價值的相關的核心技術跟資密那麼他是一個退役的軍情局的人員的時候那麼相關的這裡我們軍情局現在覺得是不是應該要有什麼防範首先跟委員報告第一個就是我們退役人員因為\n\n19\n00:06:43,424 --> 00:07:11,453\n他們掌握的訊息跟我們現在執行的工作是並不會有很大的影響因為第一個就是我們所有退役人員他本身具有管制期那他管制期管制過了之後大概一到三年的時間對於我們現行工作他基本上是不會有所了解的這是第一個\n\n20\n00:07:12,403 --> 00:07:37,497\n第二個那對於我們本局的退役人員我們會有很嚴格的管制我們必須要要求他主動申報好所以你很有信心你覺得因為他已經在2017年退役現在是2025年的4月了所以他沒有辦法掌握到核心技術他沒有向下的學弟沒有向上的學長可以有訊息做中間的傳遞\n\n21\n00:07:38,958 --> 00:08:05,363\n這邊跟委員補充報告其實我們局裡面有一項我們對於我們內部的審核機制我們始終在執行那我們所有人員的交流跟我們人員的出訪或者我們對外接觸的重要人員我們會定期不定期的都有做相關的檢查跟疑測的機制最後請問一下法務部調查局的資安處的張處長\n\n22\n00:08:07,482 --> 00:08:30,207\n處長因為會找您是因為我覺得這是最直接的關聯本席擔憂的就是如果今天資安就是國安不是只是一句所謂的口頭禪或者是口號的話那麼這樣的一個人他可能只是一個單獨的個案所以我不會要求在這裡把這個個案所有追查的進度或是狀況\n\n23\n00:08:31,467 --> 00:08:51,753\n來做說明但是如果就您所了解的話那麼這個有沒有可能成為一個資安的破口而從這個點是不是要全面的來做清查跟了解他以學術交流之名受聘到中國大陸去會不會把我們相關的資安的關鍵技術帶過去呢調查局怎麼看\n\n24\n00:08:53,297 --> 00:09:21,886\n是跟委員報告謝謝委員的提醒至於這個卓先生就我了解他並沒有在我們局裡面負責相關的資訊標案那是不是他有擔任我們標案的其他的公司的顧問這個我們還需要進一步清查但是有關卓銀腔的部分其實不是只有我們資安的部分那他涉及到其他國安的部分我們局裡面都整體的有組成專案在做一個調查\n\n25\n00:09:22,838 --> 00:09:34,443\n最後要把時間交給蔡局長其實我相信我先補充一下剛剛圖表上有提到好像有個國安局的資安建制案由這一位來擔任主持人沒有這個事情沒有這個標案嗎沒有我其實最後要請國安局\n\n26\n00:09:42,246 --> 00:10:04,032\n能夠持續來了解的部分就是當國安局已經注意到就是所謂的內應會透過所謂的民防透過內應在中共用武力犯台的同時的時候這個內應可能是透過所謂武裝部隊或者是相關的這個民軍民防來的時候另外一個破口可能會是我們的基礎建設或是資訊安全\n\n27\n00:10:05,672 --> 00:10:26,395\n那麼這個絕對只是一個其中的個案我沒有要您來討論個案但是從學術的滲透的角度以學術交流知名的角度而把台灣相關的重要的技術帶到中國去這個部分局長是不是也能夠把它列為一個主要的另外一個查查的另外一條線\n\n28\n00:10:27,416 --> 00:10:43,885\n這部分我們是有一些專案在處理那也謝謝委員的提醒那因為畢竟中共對台灣不管欠一攬柴他有管道非常的多元所以我們就是透過專案的機制讓我們國安情報團隊大家可以來分享情資那也針對這些個案來交換一些案況的理解那有必要的話就啟動檢調單位的偵辦\n\n29\n00:10:45,826 --> 00:11:04,827\n因為主席站起來了最後我想在修法面的部分因為像現在我們都只是針對就像剛剛幾位回答的官員都提到就是比如三年的保密啊四年的保密五年的保密等等加密程度但是對於海外任職我現在要提醒視訊時代他在海外任職他不一定需要出國\n\n30\n00:11:06,068 --> 00:11:18,418\n他來跟你視訊他一樣可以上課所以在相關其他的海外任職的規定的部分也許相關的單位不論是軍情及國安局或相關的單位可能也要針對修法的部分來與時俱進好嗎好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n329\t13269\t謝謝主席主席因為時間比較有限所以我一次請國安局蔡局長法務部調查局陳局長軍情局鄧執行長還有法務部調查局資安處的張處長首先我先詢問\n15885\t44860\t許問蔡局長局長剛剛其實聽到您有關於整體的國安調查的時候你有講到就是中國對於台灣的滲透喔國安局或者是相關的單位這裡沒有不敢辦只有就是看資料到哪裡我們辦到哪裡而且沒有分顏色本期聽了其實覺得非常開心因為一直以來我在國防外交委員會有非常關注的就是中國的滲透從過去我在質詢國防部的時候提到了那就是不論現役或退役金人他們因為資金的關係\n45780\t67589\t所以有相關的這種地下會對又或者是金融陷阱導致他們不得已成為所謂的共諜或者是洩密者那這個部分今天在報告當中也特別提出來了159件當中有95人其實現役或退役金人佔了60%而且呢現在媒體也都報導出去了就是在報告當中也提到了\n68803\t95697\t會有黑道跟暴力所謂組織犯罪地下錢莊等等來做掩護所以顯然這個問題它就如同我們賴總統所宣示的一樣就是其實中國這個敵對勢力正在方方面面的入侵那麼本席想詢問的就是除了您現在所提出來的這些樣態之外有沒有注意到另外一個問題那就是有關於來 夏業\n96697\t118196\t學術交流是不是也成為台灣滲透的一個樣態本席曾經發布過一個臉書啦就是在國民黨發起罷免吳思瑤的這一位人士叫做張克進他其實過去我不知道他為何自稱文化人但他比較多的文化都是在對岸\n119118\t120921\t包括中國相關的這些教育部門然後文宣部門統戰部門去頒發這個所謂這個認證給他那麼\n129889\t156004\t他基本上他就是充滿了紅色履歷那麼他要來罷免一個被中國所認證是台獨幫手台獨推手的吳思堯我那時候就覺得說這真的很可笑所以我開始就去了解到學術單位來聘請人的時候對岸的學術單位來聘請人的時候是不是其實也充滿了紅色危機這個是本席所接收到的一個\n157345\t165092\t算是爆料這一位稱作卓銀鏘他任職於閩南師範大學\n167079\t190694\t那當時我就在想說這個人有什麼好來做爆料的呢為什麼他的任職有人要把這樣的一個提醒我來注意後來我去查了發現如果你要在閩南師範大學來做教授的話要被聘任的話你必須要有中國共產黨的黨籍也就是中國人民共和國的國籍那麼而且要對中國共產黨要有擁護\n193456\t221393\t那我就想問不知道局長有沒有收到類似相關的情資這個人有在注意當中嗎因為我想要問的是他有中國籍嗎還是他是雙重國籍現在是沒有放棄台灣籍而我去了解這個人的時候我發現如果我上網Google過去他曾經在2023年有所謂拿政府標案最後不當裁員掏空的狀況那我本來想說如果他只是一個經濟犯\n222794\t227157\t那又有什麼好注意的呢結果一查不得了從國防部的參謀本部再到國科會再到國安局再到法務部調查局他在2006年也就是馬英九執政的時期\n238322\t254369\t他接了許多相關的標案而且當任主持人計劃人而他在2016年也就是政黨輪替之後他2017年2016年左右的時間他離開了公職相關單位所以我想詢問這樣的人他在2025年3月6號\n261653\t288915\t然後現在到中國的閩南師範大學去這樣的人會不會是另外一個國安破口而這個國安破口是不是從學術的角度開始成為滲透另外要注意的部分先請局長回應對 這部分我們有在注意那也謝謝委員的提醒那有沒有可能透過一種學術的交流變成是一個國安在管理上要注意的一個漏洞這我們有在注意\n289718\t299772\t好 所以說你們其實已經有在注意跟啟動相關的調查了嗎好 那麼我想要請就教一下保務部陳局長委員好局長 因為他曾經有參加過\n307973\t328641\t法務資安整體防禦基礎建設先導案而且他還是技術顧問所以他掌握了多少資安方面的顧問為什麼我會從調查局先來問起是因為2015到2016是一個目前最近近台灣目前最近近現在2025的一個時間點\n330982\t358062\t那麼他所了解我們的基礎建設當中到底滲入多少了解多少而他又可以帶走多少我們在資安上面的機密保護部有了解嗎報告委員您提到的這個採購案在來之前我是沒有了解到但是我回去以後我會馬上了解然後跟委員來報告好那國防部我想問一下軍情局\n361752\t370606\t因為我們知道我們前一陣子中國有刻意的去洩露說我們所謂自痛電軍相關的這些人士當時國防部的回應會是說\n373628\t395021\t這個可能是錯誤的資料假訊息或不重要但是我就想要問了相關的這個人他是不是真的掌握有具有戰略的價值的相關的核心技術跟資密那麼他是一個退役的軍情局的人員的時候那麼相關的這裡我們軍情局現在覺得是不是應該要有什麼防範首先跟委員報告第一個就是我們退役人員因為\n403424\t431453\t他們掌握的訊息跟我們現在執行的工作是並不會有很大的影響因為第一個就是我們所有退役人員他本身具有管制期那他管制期管制過了之後大概一到三年的時間對於我們現行工作他基本上是不會有所了解的這是第一個\n432403\t457497\t第二個那對於我們本局的退役人員我們會有很嚴格的管制我們必須要要求他主動申報好所以你很有信心你覺得因為他已經在2017年退役現在是2025年的4月了所以他沒有辦法掌握到核心技術他沒有向下的學弟沒有向上的學長可以有訊息做中間的傳遞\n458958\t485363\t這邊跟委員補充報告其實我們局裡面有一項我們對於我們內部的審核機制我們始終在執行那我們所有人員的交流跟我們人員的出訪或者我們對外接觸的重要人員我們會定期不定期的都有做相關的檢查跟疑測的機制最後請問一下法務部調查局的資安處的張處長\n487482\t510207\t處長因為會找您是因為我覺得這是最直接的關聯本席擔憂的就是如果今天資安就是國安不是只是一句所謂的口頭禪或者是口號的話那麼這樣的一個人他可能只是一個單獨的個案所以我不會要求在這裡把這個個案所有追查的進度或是狀況\n511467\t531753\t來做說明但是如果就您所了解的話那麼這個有沒有可能成為一個資安的破口而從這個點是不是要全面的來做清查跟了解他以學術交流之名受聘到中國大陸去會不會把我們相關的資安的關鍵技術帶過去呢調查局怎麼看\n533297\t561886\t是跟委員報告謝謝委員的提醒至於這個卓先生就我了解他並沒有在我們局裡面負責相關的資訊標案那是不是他有擔任我們標案的其他的公司的顧問這個我們還需要進一步清查但是有關卓銀腔的部分其實不是只有我們資安的部分那他涉及到其他國安的部分我們局裡面都整體的有組成專案在做一個調查\n562838\t574443\t最後要把時間交給蔡局長其實我相信我先補充一下剛剛圖表上有提到好像有個國安局的資安建制案由這一位來擔任主持人沒有這個事情沒有這個標案嗎沒有我其實最後要請國安局\n582246\t604032\t能夠持續來了解的部分就是當國安局已經注意到就是所謂的內應會透過所謂的民防透過內應在中共用武力犯台的同時的時候這個內應可能是透過所謂武裝部隊或者是相關的這個民軍民防來的時候另外一個破口可能會是我們的基礎建設或是資訊安全\n605672\t626395\t那麼這個絕對只是一個其中的個案我沒有要您來討論個案但是從學術的滲透的角度以學術交流知名的角度而把台灣相關的重要的技術帶到中國去這個部分局長是不是也能夠把它列為一個主要的另外一個查查的另外一條線\n627416\t643885\t這部分我們是有一些專案在處理那也謝謝委員的提醒那因為畢竟中共對台灣不管欠一攬柴他有管道非常的多元所以我們就是透過專案的機制讓我們國安情報團隊大家可以來分享情資那也針對這些個案來交換一些案況的理解那有必要的話就啟動檢調單位的偵辦\n645826\t664827\t因為主席站起來了最後我想在修法面的部分因為像現在我們都只是針對就像剛剛幾位回答的官員都提到就是比如三年的保密啊四年的保密五年的保密等等加密程度但是對於海外任職我現在要提醒視訊時代他在海外任職他不一定需要出國\n666068\t678418\t他來跟你視訊他一樣可以上課所以在相關其他的海外任職的規定的部分也許相關的單位不論是軍情及國安局或相關的單位可能也要針對修法的部分來與時俱進好嗎好謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席主席因為時間比較有限所以我一次請國安局蔡局長法務部調查局陳局長軍情局鄧執行長還有法務部調查局資安處的張處長首先我先詢問\n許問蔡局長局長剛剛其實聽到您有關於整體的國安調查的時候你有講到就是中國對於台灣的滲透喔國安局或者是相關的單位這裡沒有不敢辦只有就是看資料到哪裡我們辦到哪裡而且沒有分顏色本期聽了其實覺得非常開心因為一直以來我在國防外交委員會有非常關注的就是中國的滲透從過去我在質詢國防部的時候提到了那就是不論現役或退役金人他們因為資金的關係\n所以有相關的這種地下會對又或者是金融陷阱導致他們不得已成為所謂的共諜或者是洩密者那這個部分今天在報告當中也特別提出來了159件當中有95人其實現役或退役金人佔了60%而且呢現在媒體也都報導出去了就是在報告當中也提到了\n會有黑道跟暴力所謂組織犯罪地下錢莊等等來做掩護所以顯然這個問題它就如同我們賴總統所宣示的一樣就是其實中國這個敵對勢力正在方方面面的入侵那麼本席想詢問的就是除了您現在所提出來的這些樣態之外有沒有注意到另外一個問題那就是有關於來 夏業\n學術交流是不是也成為台灣滲透的一個樣態本席曾經發布過一個臉書啦就是在國民黨發起罷免吳思瑤的這一位人士叫做張克進他其實過去我不知道他為何自稱文化人但他比較多的文化都是在對岸\n包括中國相關的這些教育部門然後文宣部門統戰部門去頒發這個所謂這個認證給他那麼\n他基本上他就是充滿了紅色履歷那麼他要來罷免一個被中國所認證是台獨幫手台獨推手的吳思堯我那時候就覺得說這真的很可笑所以我開始就去了解到學術單位來聘請人的時候對岸的學術單位來聘請人的時候是不是其實也充滿了紅色危機這個是本席所接收到的一個\n算是爆料這一位稱作卓銀鏘他任職於閩南師範大學\n那當時我就在想說這個人有什麼好來做爆料的呢為什麼他的任職有人要把這樣的一個提醒我來注意後來我去查了發現如果你要在閩南師範大學來做教授的話要被聘任的話你必須要有中國共產黨的黨籍也就是中國人民共和國的國籍那麼而且要對中國共產黨要有擁護\n那我就想問不知道局長有沒有收到類似相關的情資這個人有在注意當中嗎因為我想要問的是他有中國籍嗎還是他是雙重國籍現在是沒有放棄台灣籍而我去了解這個人的時候我發現如果我上網Google過去他曾經在2023年有所謂拿政府標案最後不當裁員掏空的狀況那我本來想說如果他只是一個經濟犯\n那又有什麼好注意的呢結果一查不得了從國防部的參謀本部再到國科會再到國安局再到法務部調查局他在2006年也就是馬英九執政的時期\n他接了許多相關的標案而且當任主持人計劃人而他在2016年也就是政黨輪替之後他2017年2016年左右的時間他離開了公職相關單位所以我想詢問這樣的人他在2025年3月6號\n然後現在到中國的閩南師範大學去這樣的人會不會是另外一個國安破口而這個國安破口是不是從學術的角度開始成為滲透另外要注意的部分先請局長回應對 這部分我們有在注意那也謝謝委員的提醒那有沒有可能透過一種學術的交流變成是一個國安在管理上要注意的一個漏洞這我們有在注意\n好 所以說你們其實已經有在注意跟啟動相關的調查了嗎好 那麼我想要請就教一下保務部陳局長委員好局長 因為他曾經有參加過\n法務資安整體防禦基礎建設先導案而且他還是技術顧問所以他掌握了多少資安方面的顧問為什麼我會從調查局先來問起是因為2015到2016是一個目前最近近台灣目前最近近現在2025的一個時間點\n那麼他所了解我們的基礎建設當中到底滲入多少了解多少而他又可以帶走多少我們在資安上面的機密保護部有了解嗎報告委員您提到的這個採購案在來之前我是沒有了解到但是我回去以後我會馬上了解然後跟委員來報告好那國防部我想問一下軍情局\n因為我們知道我們前一陣子中國有刻意的去洩露說我們所謂自痛電軍相關的這些人士當時國防部的回應會是說\n這個可能是錯誤的資料假訊息或不重要但是我就想要問了相關的這個人他是不是真的掌握有具有戰略的價值的相關的核心技術跟資密那麼他是一個退役的軍情局的人員的時候那麼相關的這裡我們軍情局現在覺得是不是應該要有什麼防範首先跟委員報告第一個就是我們退役人員因為\n他們掌握的訊息跟我們現在執行的工作是並不會有很大的影響因為第一個就是我們所有退役人員他本身具有管制期那他管制期管制過了之後大概一到三年的時間對於我們現行工作他基本上是不會有所了解的這是第一個\n第二個那對於我們本局的退役人員我們會有很嚴格的管制我們必須要要求他主動申報好所以你很有信心你覺得因為他已經在2017年退役現在是2025年的4月了所以他沒有辦法掌握到核心技術他沒有向下的學弟沒有向上的學長可以有訊息做中間的傳遞\n這邊跟委員補充報告其實我們局裡面有一項我們對於我們內部的審核機制我們始終在執行那我們所有人員的交流跟我們人員的出訪或者我們對外接觸的重要人員我們會定期不定期的都有做相關的檢查跟疑測的機制最後請問一下法務部調查局的資安處的張處長\n處長因為會找您是因為我覺得這是最直接的關聯本席擔憂的就是如果今天資安就是國安不是只是一句所謂的口頭禪或者是口號的話那麼這樣的一個人他可能只是一個單獨的個案所以我不會要求在這裡把這個個案所有追查的進度或是狀況\n來做說明但是如果就您所了解的話那麼這個有沒有可能成為一個資安的破口而從這個點是不是要全面的來做清查跟了解他以學術交流之名受聘到中國大陸去會不會把我們相關的資安的關鍵技術帶過去呢調查局怎麼看\n是跟委員報告謝謝委員的提醒至於這個卓先生就我了解他並沒有在我們局裡面負責相關的資訊標案那是不是他有擔任我們標案的其他的公司的顧問這個我們還需要進一步清查但是有關卓銀腔的部分其實不是只有我們資安的部分那他涉及到其他國安的部分我們局裡面都整體的有組成專案在做一個調查\n最後要把時間交給蔡局長其實我相信我先補充一下剛剛圖表上有提到好像有個國安局的資安建制案由這一位來擔任主持人沒有這個事情沒有這個標案嗎沒有我其實最後要請國安局\n能夠持續來了解的部分就是當國安局已經注意到就是所謂的內應會透過所謂的民防透過內應在中共用武力犯台的同時的時候這個內應可能是透過所謂武裝部隊或者是相關的這個民軍民防來的時候另外一個破口可能會是我們的基礎建設或是資訊安全\n那麼這個絕對只是一個其中的個案我沒有要您來討論個案但是從學術的滲透的角度以學術交流知名的角度而把台灣相關的重要的技術帶到中國去這個部分局長是不是也能夠把它列為一個主要的另外一個查查的另外一條線\n這部分我們是有一些專案在處理那也謝謝委員的提醒那因為畢竟中共對台灣不管欠一攬柴他有管道非常的多元所以我們就是透過專案的機制讓我們國安情報團隊大家可以來分享情資那也針對這些個案來交換一些案況的理解那有必要的話就啟動檢調單位的偵辦\n因為主席站起來了最後我想在修法面的部分因為像現在我們都只是針對就像剛剛幾位回答的官員都提到就是比如三年的保密啊四年的保密五年的保密等等加密程度但是對於海外任職我現在要提醒視訊時代他在海外任職他不一定需要出國\n他來跟你視訊他一樣可以上課所以在相關其他的海外任職的規定的部分也許相關的單位不論是軍情及國安局或相關的單位可能也要針對修法的部分來與時俱進好嗎好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.329 --> 00:13.269\n謝謝主席主席因為時間比較有限所以我一次請國安局蔡局長法務部調查局陳局長軍情局鄧執行長還有法務部調查局資安處的張處長首先我先詢問\n\n00:15.885 --> 00:44.860\n許問蔡局長局長剛剛其實聽到您有關於整體的國安調查的時候你有講到就是中國對於台灣的滲透喔國安局或者是相關的單位這裡沒有不敢辦只有就是看資料到哪裡我們辦到哪裡而且沒有分顏色本期聽了其實覺得非常開心因為一直以來我在國防外交委員會有非常關注的就是中國的滲透從過去我在質詢國防部的時候提到了那就是不論現役或退役金人他們因為資金的關係\n\n00:45.780 --> 01:07.589\n所以有相關的這種地下會對又或者是金融陷阱導致他們不得已成為所謂的共諜或者是洩密者那這個部分今天在報告當中也特別提出來了159件當中有95人其實現役或退役金人佔了60%而且呢現在媒體也都報導出去了就是在報告當中也提到了\n\n01:08.803 --> 01:35.697\n會有黑道跟暴力所謂組織犯罪地下錢莊等等來做掩護所以顯然這個問題它就如同我們賴總統所宣示的一樣就是其實中國這個敵對勢力正在方方面面的入侵那麼本席想詢問的就是除了您現在所提出來的這些樣態之外有沒有注意到另外一個問題那就是有關於來夏業\n\n01:36.697 --> 01:58.196\n學術交流是不是也成為台灣滲透的一個樣態本席曾經發布過一個臉書啦就是在國民黨發起罷免吳思瑤的這一位人士叫做張克進他其實過去我不知道他為何自稱文化人但他比較多的文化都是在對岸\n\n01:59.118 --> 02:00.921\n包括中國相關的這些教育部門然後文宣部門統戰部門去頒發這個所謂這個認證給他那麼\n\n02:09.889 --> 02:36.004\n他基本上他就是充滿了紅色履歷那麼他要來罷免一個被中國所認證是台獨幫手台獨推手的吳思堯我那時候就覺得說這真的很可笑所以我開始就去了解到學術單位來聘請人的時候對岸的學術單位來聘請人的時候是不是其實也充滿了紅色危機這個是本席所接收到的一個\n\n02:37.345 --> 02:45.092\n算是爆料這一位稱作卓銀鏘他任職於閩南師範大學\n\n02:47.079 --> 03:10.694\n那當時我就在想說這個人有什麼好來做爆料的呢為什麼他的任職有人要把這樣的一個提醒我來注意後來我去查了發現如果你要在閩南師範大學來做教授的話要被聘任的話你必須要有中國共產黨的黨籍也就是中國人民共和國的國籍那麼而且要對中國共產黨要有擁護\n\n03:13.456 --> 03:41.393\n那我就想問不知道局長有沒有收到類似相關的情資這個人有在注意當中嗎因為我想要問的是他有中國籍嗎還是他是雙重國籍現在是沒有放棄台灣籍而我去了解這個人的時候我發現如果我上網Google過去他曾經在2023年有所謂拿政府標案最後不當裁員掏空的狀況那我本來想說如果他只是一個經濟犯\n\n03:42.794 --> 03:47.157\n那又有什麼好注意的呢結果一查不得了從國防部的參謀本部再到國科會再到國安局再到法務部調查局他在2006年也就是馬英九執政的時期\n\n03:58.322 --> 04:14.369\n他接了許多相關的標案而且當任主持人計劃人而他在2016年也就是政黨輪替之後他2017年2016年左右的時間他離開了公職相關單位所以我想詢問這樣的人他在2025年3月6號\n\n04:21.653 --> 04:48.915\n然後現在到中國的閩南師範大學去這樣的人會不會是另外一個國安破口而這個國安破口是不是從學術的角度開始成為滲透另外要注意的部分先請局長回應對這部分我們有在注意那也謝謝委員的提醒那有沒有可能透過一種學術的交流變成是一個國安在管理上要注意的一個漏洞這我們有在注意\n\n04:49.718 --> 04:59.772\n好所以說你們其實已經有在注意跟啟動相關的調查了嗎好那麼我想要請就教一下保務部陳局長委員好局長因為他曾經有參加過\n\n05:07.973 --> 05:28.641\n法務資安整體防禦基礎建設先導案而且他還是技術顧問所以他掌握了多少資安方面的顧問為什麼我會從調查局先來問起是因為2015到2016是一個目前最近近台灣目前最近近現在2025的一個時間點\n\n05:30.982 --> 05:58.062\n那麼他所了解我們的基礎建設當中到底滲入多少了解多少而他又可以帶走多少我們在資安上面的機密保護部有了解嗎報告委員您提到的這個採購案在來之前我是沒有了解到但是我回去以後我會馬上了解然後跟委員來報告好那國防部我想問一下軍情局\n\n06:01.752 --> 06:10.606\n因為我們知道我們前一陣子中國有刻意的去洩露說我們所謂自痛電軍相關的這些人士當時國防部的回應會是說\n\n06:13.628 --> 06:35.021\n這個可能是錯誤的資料假訊息或不重要但是我就想要問了相關的這個人他是不是真的掌握有具有戰略的價值的相關的核心技術跟資密那麼他是一個退役的軍情局的人員的時候那麼相關的這裡我們軍情局現在覺得是不是應該要有什麼防範首先跟委員報告第一個就是我們退役人員因為\n\n06:43.424 --> 07:11.453\n他們掌握的訊息跟我們現在執行的工作是並不會有很大的影響因為第一個就是我們所有退役人員他本身具有管制期那他管制期管制過了之後大概一到三年的時間對於我們現行工作他基本上是不會有所了解的這是第一個\n\n07:12.403 --> 07:37.497\n第二個那對於我們本局的退役人員我們會有很嚴格的管制我們必須要要求他主動申報好所以你很有信心你覺得因為他已經在2017年退役現在是2025年的4月了所以他沒有辦法掌握到核心技術他沒有向下的學弟沒有向上的學長可以有訊息做中間的傳遞\n\n07:38.958 --> 08:05.363\n這邊跟委員補充報告其實我們局裡面有一項我們對於我們內部的審核機制我們始終在執行那我們所有人員的交流跟我們人員的出訪或者我們對外接觸的重要人員我們會定期不定期的都有做相關的檢查跟疑測的機制最後請問一下法務部調查局的資安處的張處長\n\n08:07.482 --> 08:30.207\n處長因為會找您是因為我覺得這是最直接的關聯本席擔憂的就是如果今天資安就是國安不是只是一句所謂的口頭禪或者是口號的話那麼這樣的一個人他可能只是一個單獨的個案所以我不會要求在這裡把這個個案所有追查的進度或是狀況\n\n08:31.467 --> 08:51.753\n來做說明但是如果就您所了解的話那麼這個有沒有可能成為一個資安的破口而從這個點是不是要全面的來做清查跟了解他以學術交流之名受聘到中國大陸去會不會把我們相關的資安的關鍵技術帶過去呢調查局怎麼看\n\n08:53.297 --> 09:21.886\n是跟委員報告謝謝委員的提醒至於這個卓先生就我了解他並沒有在我們局裡面負責相關的資訊標案那是不是他有擔任我們標案的其他的公司的顧問這個我們還需要進一步清查但是有關卓銀腔的部分其實不是只有我們資安的部分那他涉及到其他國安的部分我們局裡面都整體的有組成專案在做一個調查\n\n09:22.838 --> 09:34.443\n最後要把時間交給蔡局長其實我相信我先補充一下剛剛圖表上有提到好像有個國安局的資安建制案由這一位來擔任主持人沒有這個事情沒有這個標案嗎沒有我其實最後要請國安局\n\n09:42.246 --> 10:04.032\n能夠持續來了解的部分就是當國安局已經注意到就是所謂的內應會透過所謂的民防透過內應在中共用武力犯台的同時的時候這個內應可能是透過所謂武裝部隊或者是相關的這個民軍民防來的時候另外一個破口可能會是我們的基礎建設或是資訊安全\n\n10:05.672 --> 10:26.395\n那麼這個絕對只是一個其中的個案我沒有要您來討論個案但是從學術的滲透的角度以學術交流知名的角度而把台灣相關的重要的技術帶到中國去這個部分局長是不是也能夠把它列為一個主要的另外一個查查的另外一條線\n\n10:27.416 --> 10:43.885\n這部分我們是有一些專案在處理那也謝謝委員的提醒那因為畢竟中共對台灣不管欠一攬柴他有管道非常的多元所以我們就是透過專案的機制讓我們國安情報團隊大家可以來分享情資那也針對這些個案來交換一些案況的理解那有必要的話就啟動檢調單位的偵辦\n\n10:45.826 --> 11:04.827\n因為主席站起來了最後我想在修法面的部分因為像現在我們都只是針對就像剛剛幾位回答的官員都提到就是比如三年的保密啊四年的保密五年的保密等等加密程度但是對於海外任職我現在要提醒視訊時代他在海外任職他不一定需要出國\n\n11:06.068 --> 11:18.418\n他來跟你視訊他一樣可以上課所以在相關其他的海外任職的規定的部分也許相關的單位不論是軍情及國安局或相關的單位可能也要針對修法的部分來與時俱進好嗎好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.329,"end":13.269,"text":"謝謝主席主席因為時間比較有限所以我一次請國安局蔡局長法務部調查局陳局長軍情局鄧執行長還有法務部調查局資安處的張處長首先我先詢問"},{"start":15.885,"end":44.86,"text":"許問蔡局長局長剛剛其實聽到您有關於整體的國安調查的時候你有講到就是中國對於台灣的滲透喔國安局或者是相關的單位這裡沒有不敢辦只有就是看資料到哪裡我們辦到哪裡而且沒有分顏色本期聽了其實覺得非常開心因為一直以來我在國防外交委員會有非常關注的就是中國的滲透從過去我在質詢國防部的時候提到了那就是不論現役或退役金人他們因為資金的關係"},{"start":45.78,"end":67.589,"text":"所以有相關的這種地下會對又或者是金融陷阱導致他們不得已成為所謂的共諜或者是洩密者那這個部分今天在報告當中也特別提出來了159件當中有95人其實現役或退役金人佔了60%而且呢現在媒體也都報導出去了就是在報告當中也提到了"},{"start":68.803,"end":95.697,"text":"會有黑道跟暴力所謂組織犯罪地下錢莊等等來做掩護所以顯然這個問題它就如同我們賴總統所宣示的一樣就是其實中國這個敵對勢力正在方方面面的入侵那麼本席想詢問的就是除了您現在所提出來的這些樣態之外有沒有注意到另外一個問題那就是有關於來 夏業"},{"start":96.697,"end":118.196,"text":"學術交流是不是也成為台灣滲透的一個樣態本席曾經發布過一個臉書啦就是在國民黨發起罷免吳思瑤的這一位人士叫做張克進他其實過去我不知道他為何自稱文化人但他比較多的文化都是在對岸"},{"start":119.118,"end":120.921,"text":"包括中國相關的這些教育部門然後文宣部門統戰部門去頒發這個所謂這個認證給他那麼"},{"start":129.889,"end":156.004,"text":"他基本上他就是充滿了紅色履歷那麼他要來罷免一個被中國所認證是台獨幫手台獨推手的吳思堯我那時候就覺得說這真的很可笑所以我開始就去了解到學術單位來聘請人的時候對岸的學術單位來聘請人的時候是不是其實也充滿了紅色危機這個是本席所接收到的一個"},{"start":157.345,"end":165.092,"text":"算是爆料這一位稱作卓銀鏘他任職於閩南師範大學"},{"start":167.079,"end":190.694,"text":"那當時我就在想說這個人有什麼好來做爆料的呢為什麼他的任職有人要把這樣的一個提醒我來注意後來我去查了發現如果你要在閩南師範大學來做教授的話要被聘任的話你必須要有中國共產黨的黨籍也就是中國人民共和國的國籍那麼而且要對中國共產黨要有擁護"},{"start":193.456,"end":221.393,"text":"那我就想問不知道局長有沒有收到類似相關的情資這個人有在注意當中嗎因為我想要問的是他有中國籍嗎還是他是雙重國籍現在是沒有放棄台灣籍而我去了解這個人的時候我發現如果我上網Google過去他曾經在2023年有所謂拿政府標案最後不當裁員掏空的狀況那我本來想說如果他只是一個經濟犯"},{"start":222.794,"end":227.157,"text":"那又有什麼好注意的呢結果一查不得了從國防部的參謀本部再到國科會再到國安局再到法務部調查局他在2006年也就是馬英九執政的時期"},{"start":238.322,"end":254.369,"text":"他接了許多相關的標案而且當任主持人計劃人而他在2016年也就是政黨輪替之後他2017年2016年左右的時間他離開了公職相關單位所以我想詢問這樣的人他在2025年3月6號"},{"start":261.653,"end":288.915,"text":"然後現在到中國的閩南師範大學去這樣的人會不會是另外一個國安破口而這個國安破口是不是從學術的角度開始成為滲透另外要注意的部分先請局長回應對 這部分我們有在注意那也謝謝委員的提醒那有沒有可能透過一種學術的交流變成是一個國安在管理上要注意的一個漏洞這我們有在注意"},{"start":289.718,"end":299.772,"text":"好 所以說你們其實已經有在注意跟啟動相關的調查了嗎好 那麼我想要請就教一下保務部陳局長委員好局長 因為他曾經有參加過"},{"start":307.973,"end":328.641,"text":"法務資安整體防禦基礎建設先導案而且他還是技術顧問所以他掌握了多少資安方面的顧問為什麼我會從調查局先來問起是因為2015到2016是一個目前最近近台灣目前最近近現在2025的一個時間點"},{"start":330.982,"end":358.062,"text":"那麼他所了解我們的基礎建設當中到底滲入多少了解多少而他又可以帶走多少我們在資安上面的機密保護部有了解嗎報告委員您提到的這個採購案在來之前我是沒有了解到但是我回去以後我會馬上了解然後跟委員來報告好那國防部我想問一下軍情局"},{"start":361.752,"end":370.606,"text":"因為我們知道我們前一陣子中國有刻意的去洩露說我們所謂自痛電軍相關的這些人士當時國防部的回應會是說"},{"start":373.628,"end":395.021,"text":"這個可能是錯誤的資料假訊息或不重要但是我就想要問了相關的這個人他是不是真的掌握有具有戰略的價值的相關的核心技術跟資密那麼他是一個退役的軍情局的人員的時候那麼相關的這裡我們軍情局現在覺得是不是應該要有什麼防範首先跟委員報告第一個就是我們退役人員因為"},{"start":403.424,"end":431.453,"text":"他們掌握的訊息跟我們現在執行的工作是並不會有很大的影響因為第一個就是我們所有退役人員他本身具有管制期那他管制期管制過了之後大概一到三年的時間對於我們現行工作他基本上是不會有所了解的這是第一個"},{"start":432.403,"end":457.497,"text":"第二個那對於我們本局的退役人員我們會有很嚴格的管制我們必須要要求他主動申報好所以你很有信心你覺得因為他已經在2017年退役現在是2025年的4月了所以他沒有辦法掌握到核心技術他沒有向下的學弟沒有向上的學長可以有訊息做中間的傳遞"},{"start":458.958,"end":485.363,"text":"這邊跟委員補充報告其實我們局裡面有一項我們對於我們內部的審核機制我們始終在執行那我們所有人員的交流跟我們人員的出訪或者我們對外接觸的重要人員我們會定期不定期的都有做相關的檢查跟疑測的機制最後請問一下法務部調查局的資安處的張處長"},{"start":487.482,"end":510.207,"text":"處長因為會找您是因為我覺得這是最直接的關聯本席擔憂的就是如果今天資安就是國安不是只是一句所謂的口頭禪或者是口號的話那麼這樣的一個人他可能只是一個單獨的個案所以我不會要求在這裡把這個個案所有追查的進度或是狀況"},{"start":511.467,"end":531.753,"text":"來做說明但是如果就您所了解的話那麼這個有沒有可能成為一個資安的破口而從這個點是不是要全面的來做清查跟了解他以學術交流之名受聘到中國大陸去會不會把我們相關的資安的關鍵技術帶過去呢調查局怎麼看"},{"start":533.297,"end":561.886,"text":"是跟委員報告謝謝委員的提醒至於這個卓先生就我了解他並沒有在我們局裡面負責相關的資訊標案那是不是他有擔任我們標案的其他的公司的顧問這個我們還需要進一步清查但是有關卓銀腔的部分其實不是只有我們資安的部分那他涉及到其他國安的部分我們局裡面都整體的有組成專案在做一個調查"},{"start":562.838,"end":574.443,"text":"最後要把時間交給蔡局長其實我相信我先補充一下剛剛圖表上有提到好像有個國安局的資安建制案由這一位來擔任主持人沒有這個事情沒有這個標案嗎沒有我其實最後要請國安局"},{"start":582.246,"end":604.032,"text":"能夠持續來了解的部分就是當國安局已經注意到就是所謂的內應會透過所謂的民防透過內應在中共用武力犯台的同時的時候這個內應可能是透過所謂武裝部隊或者是相關的這個民軍民防來的時候另外一個破口可能會是我們的基礎建設或是資訊安全"},{"start":605.672,"end":626.395,"text":"那麼這個絕對只是一個其中的個案我沒有要您來討論個案但是從學術的滲透的角度以學術交流知名的角度而把台灣相關的重要的技術帶到中國去這個部分局長是不是也能夠把它列為一個主要的另外一個查查的另外一條線"},{"start":627.416,"end":643.885,"text":"這部分我們是有一些專案在處理那也謝謝委員的提醒那因為畢竟中共對台灣不管欠一攬柴他有管道非常的多元所以我們就是透過專案的機制讓我們國安情報團隊大家可以來分享情資那也針對這些個案來交換一些案況的理解那有必要的話就啟動檢調單位的偵辦"},{"start":645.826,"end":664.827,"text":"因為主席站起來了最後我想在修法面的部分因為像現在我們都只是針對就像剛剛幾位回答的官員都提到就是比如三年的保密啊四年的保密五年的保密等等加密程度但是對於海外任職我現在要提醒視訊時代他在海外任職他不一定需要出國"},{"start":666.068,"end":678.418,"text":"他來跟你視訊他一樣可以上課所以在相關其他的海外任職的規定的部分也許相關的單位不論是軍情及國安局或相關的單位可能也要針對修法的部分來與時俱進好嗎好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":656,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（11時8分）謝謝主席。主席，因為時間比較有限，所以我一次請國安局蔡局長、法務部調查局陳局長、軍情局鄧執行長，還有法務部調查局資安處張處長。","首先我先詢問蔡局長，局長，剛剛您談到有關整體的國安調查的時候，你有講到中國對於臺灣的滲透，國安局或者相關單位沒有不敢辦，只有看資料到哪裡我們辦到哪裡，而且沒有分顏色。本席聽了覺得非常開心，因為一直以來我在外交及國防委員會都非常關注中國的滲透，從過去我在質詢國防部的時候就提到，不論現役或退役軍人，他們因為資金的關係，所以有相關的地下匯兌又或者金融陷阱導致他們不得已成為共諜或洩密者，這個部分今天在報告當中也特別提出來了，159件當中有95人其實是現役或退役軍人，占了百分之六十，而且現在媒體也都報導出去了，就是在報告當中也提到會利用黑道跟暴力集團，所謂組織犯罪、地下錢莊等等來做掩護，顯然這個問題就如同賴總統所宣示的一樣，其實中國這個敵對勢力正在方方面面的入侵。本席想詢問的就是，除了您現在所提出來的這些樣態之外，有沒有注意到另外一個問題？那就是學術交流是不是也成為滲透臺灣的樣態？本席曾經發布過一則臉書，國民黨發起罷免吳思瑤的這一位人士，叫做張克晉，我不知道他為何自稱文化人，但他比較多的文化都是在對岸，包括中國的教育部門、文宣部門、統戰部門頒發所謂的認證給他。基本上，他就是充滿了紅色履歷，而他要來罷免一個被中國認證是臺獨推手的吳思瑤，我那時候就覺得這真的很可笑，所以我就開始去了解對岸的學術單位來聘請人的時候，是不是其實也充滿了紅色危機？","接著，本席所接收到的這個算是爆料。這一位稱作卓瑩鎗，任職於閩南師範大學，當時我就在想這個人有什麼好來爆料呢？為什麼有人要提醒我注意他的任職？後來我去查了發現，如果要在閩南師範大學被聘任為教授，必須要有中國共產黨的黨籍，也就是中國人民共和國的國籍而且要擁護中國共產黨。我就想問局長有沒有收到類似的情資？這個人有在注意當中嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：有。"],["林委員楚茵：我想要問的是他有中國籍嗎？還是他是雙重國籍，現在沒有放棄臺灣籍？我去了解這個人的時候，上網google發現他曾經在2023年拿政府標案，最後有不當裁員、掏空的狀況。我本來想如果他只是一個經濟犯，那又有什麼好注意的呢？結果一查不得了，從國防部參謀本部到國科會、國安局，再到法務部調查局，他在2006年，也就是馬英九執政的時期，接了許多相關的標案，而且擔任主持人、計畫人。他在2016年，也就是政黨輪替之後，即2017年、2016年左右，離開了公職相關單位，所以我想詢問這樣的人在2025年3月6號到中國閩南師範大學，會不會是另外一個國安破口？而這個國安破口是不是從學術的角度開始成為滲透另外要注意的部分？先請局長回應。"],["蔡局長明彥：這部分我們有在注意，也謝謝委員提醒，有沒有可能透過學術交流，變成是國安在管理上要注意的漏洞，我們有在注意。"],["林委員楚茵：好，所以你們已經有在注意跟啟動相關調查了嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：有。"],["林委員楚茵：我想要就教一下法務部陳局長。"],["陳局長白立：委員好。"],["林委員楚茵：因為他曾經參加過法務資安整體防禦基礎建設先導案，而且還是技術顧問，所以他掌握了多少資安方面的顧問？為什麼我會從調查局先問起？因為2015到2016是一個目前最接近2025的時間點，他在我們的基礎建設當中，到底滲入多少、了解多少？而他又可以帶走多少我們在資安上面的機密？法務部有了解嗎？"],["陳局長白立：您提到的這個採購案，我在來之前沒有了解到，但是我回去以後會馬上了解，然後跟委員報告。"],["林委員楚茵：我想問一下國防部軍情局，因為我們知道前一陣子中國有刻意洩漏我們的資通電軍相關人士，當時國防部的回應是，這個可能是錯誤的資料、假訊息或不重要，但是我想要問，這一個人是不是真的掌握具有戰略價值的核心技術跟資密？當他是一個退役的軍情局人員，軍情局現在是不是應該要有什麼防範？"],["鄧執行長敦仁：首先跟委員報告，第一個、退役人員掌握的訊息對我們現在執行的工作，並不會有很大的影響，因為所有退役人員本身具有管制期，管制期過了之後，大概1到3年的時間，對於我們現行工作，基本上是不會有所了解的。這是第一個。第二個，對於本局的退役人員，我們會有很嚴格的管制，我們必須要求他主動申報。"],["林委員楚茵：所以你很有信心，你覺得因為他已經在2017年退役，現在是2025年4月了，所以他沒有辦法掌握到核心技術，他沒有向下的學弟、沒有向上的學長，可以有訊息做中間的傳遞？"],["鄧執行長敦仁：跟委員補充報告，其實本局始終在執行內部的審核機制，我們所有人員的交流跟出訪或者對外接觸的重要人員，我們定期、不定期都有做相關檢查跟儀測的機制。"],["林委員楚茵：最後，請問一下法務部調查局資安處張處長，會找您是因為我覺得這是最直接的關聯。本席擔憂的是，如果今天資安就是國安，不只是一句所謂的口頭禪或者口號，這樣的人可能只是一個單獨的個案，所以我不會要求在這裡把這個個案所有追查的進度或是狀況說明，但是就您所了解，這個有沒有可能成為一個資安的破口？而從這個點是不是要全面的來清查跟了解？他以學術交流之名受聘到中國大陸，會不會把我們相關的資安關鍵技術帶過去呢？調查局怎麼看？"],["張處長尤仁：謝謝委員提醒。至於這個卓先生，就我了解，他並沒有在本局負責相關的資訊標案，他是不是有擔任其他標案的公司顧問，我們還需要進一步清查。但是有關卓瑩鎗，其實不是只有資安的部分，涉及到其他國安的部分，本局都整體組成專案在調查。"],["林委員楚茵：最後，要把時間交給蔡局長。其實我相信……"],["蔡局長明彥：委員，我先補充一下，剛剛那個圖表上有提到，有一個國安局的資安建置案由這位來擔任主持人，沒有這個事情。"],["林委員楚茵：沒有這個標案嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：沒有。"],["林委員楚茵：好。我最後要請國安局持續來了解的部分就是，當國安局已經注意到所謂的民防透過內應，在中共用武力犯臺的同時，這個內應可能是透過武裝部隊或者是民軍民防，另外一個破口可能會是我們的基礎建設或是資訊安全，這個絕對只是其中的個案，我沒有要您討論個案。但是從學術滲透的角度、以學術交流之名的角度，而把臺灣重要的技術帶到中國，局長是不是也能夠把它列為主要查察的另外一條線？"],["蔡局長明彥：這部分我們有一些專案在處理，也謝謝委員提醒，畢竟中共對臺灣不管竊密、攬才，管道非常多元，所以我們就是透過專案的機制，讓國安情報團隊可以分享情資，也針對這些個案來交換一些案況的理解，有必要的話，就啟動檢調單位偵辦。"],["林委員楚茵：因為主席站起來了。最後，我想在修法面的部分，因為像現在我們都只是針對……就像剛剛幾位回答的官員也都提到，比如3年保密、4年保密、5年保密等等的加密程度，但是對於海外任職，我現在要提醒，視訊時代在海外任職不一定需要出國，透過視訊一樣可以上課，所以在海外任職的其他規定，也許相關單位，不論是軍情局、國安局，可能也要針對修法的部分來與時俱進，好嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：好，謝謝委員的提醒。"],["林委員楚茵：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林楚茵委員上臺質詢。","接下來由楊瓊瓔委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":60,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-6","speakers":["黃仁","羅美玲","徐巧芯","陳俊宇","陳冠廷","馬文君","王定宇","林楚茵","楊瓊瓔","沈伯洋","李坤城","王鴻薇","林憶君"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-04-09"],"gazette_id":"1143601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143601_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥率相關情報機關首長提出「國家情報工作暨國家安全局業務報告」，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143601_00001"}}}