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\"score\": 0.003}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,712 --> 00:00:21,476\n謝謝主席邀請局長國安局好姚惠美好局長好那針對於川普政府宣布對外貿易與投資政策那包括了各國的鋼、鋁、汽車關稅到25%甚至對各國的課徵的10%到50%的對等關稅\n\n2\n00:00:29,117 --> 00:00:51,893\n也派引導整個製造業能夠回流到美國關稅政策一出引發了國人的恐慌尤其是我們產業界非常非常的憂心在川普政策出爐前政府要人民安心強調風險可控政府有準備沒想到美國政府最後對我們課稅是高達32%的關稅\n\n3\n00:00:54,855 --> 00:01:23,712\n那政府是不是在事前已經有掌控到相關的資訊那我們國安團隊的判斷到底是什麼所以首先來請教國安會議的結論最後是不是誠如柯總召所說的是這個關稅是10%請教沒有這部分應該行政院已經有對外說明當時在評估可能美國對等關稅的稅增的那個會多大\n\n4\n00:01:25,578 --> 00:01:30,660\n那當時是有抓一個蠻大的幅度那最大的幅度應該是比現在的32%還要大剛剛在這個經濟委員會呢部長跟劉主委國防會都說當時的這個準備是10%到35%是不是如此\n\n5\n00:01:44,617 --> 00:02:05,698\n對我尊重行政院相關部會的對外說明你對外說明就是同意所以我們不希望說民眾聽到的訊息是差別這麼大因為柯總召是鐵口直斷的說放心啦就是只有10%可是隔天出來的答案是如此讓人民真的恐慌我們也不希望\n\n6\n00:02:06,398 --> 00:02:23,115\n讓人民這麼恐慌不可以所以政府必須要有所應對那所以在這個對等的關稅的議題之前台積電對美的投資那麼已經引起了不少的討論也有人憂心也就是說\n\n7\n00:02:24,156 --> 00:02:48,692\n不少人質疑說台積電變美積電那也有人憂心說赴美之後的投資會削弱了台灣晶片的一個優勢那麼台積電的半導體它的角色地位我們的描述是承諾是台灣的戲盾但是我們也看到美方說了他說未來有4成的晶片在美生產換句話說更有人說這會陷入了我們\n\n8\n00:02:52,774 --> 00:03:14,384\n一個安全的困境那也就是說美國得到了這個台積電的一個投資確保了美國供應鏈的一個安全但是我們台灣的資產安全反而是讓我們會不穩定所以在這種情況之下請教局長台積電對美投資的增加對我國安有什麼影響請教\n\n9\n00:03:15,475 --> 00:03:41,963\n我想第一部分先說明一下因為台積電畢竟是一家民營的企業它的海外的佈局投資我想我們國安單位不適合做評論好或不好但是從國際情報的角度我可以跟委員分享報告的是就國際的所謂半導體的產業來講它是一個蠻大的全球的生態系所以我相信我們的廠商在做相關的投資佈局一定都會有它的一個評估跟考量\n\n10\n00:03:42,443 --> 00:04:01,741\n那相關的投資對於他的企業是不是在擴展市場上或是在供應的安全上或是更多的訂單的爭取上他一定會有一些評估那這部分我想注重但是在我們的盾牌如果削弱了這個盾牌當然人民會有所疑慮所以在我們整個國安的方面我們的影響\n\n11\n00:04:02,761 --> 00:04:19,846\n對也跟委員說明一下因為我們國內的那個半導體的產業的供應鏈生態系非常的完整那有非常優秀的勞動力那也有非常先進的技術它要在短期被取代的可能性沒有那麼高所以換句話說我們還是合作\n\n12\n00:04:24,351 --> 00:04:32,944\n看到這個問題我們要好好的去應對滾動式的一個檢討接下來本席要請教國安局您自個兒的統計報告2020年到現在共諜案的起訴\n\n13\n00:04:38,172 --> 00:04:52,077\n有159人那其中現役跟退役的有95人他的占比是60%那上週更傳出有總統府的資議立法院的國會的助理涉這個共諜案\n\n14\n00:04:54,318 --> 00:05:09,301\n這一些的事件讓國人就非常非常的不安那麼顯示中共試圖對於我們整個軍事單位以及政府的機關它是進行滲透企圖取得了機密的一個\n\n15\n00:05:10,941 --> 00:05:26,727\n這個資訊所以在這樣的情況之下局長面對這樣子的威脅增加那我方如何應應呢你要怎麼樣去加強這一個查核來確保我們國家的這個機敏性的資訊能夠得到安全請做說明\n\n16\n00:05:27,747 --> 00:05:45,918\n就這部分我想會做這些共諜案的揭露主要是讓我們的社會大眾更可以知道中共對台灣進行滲透的一些手法跟樣態那我們這樣子才能夠強化我們的社會韌性來防範中共對台灣有更多的這些在地協力者網絡的建構這是第一點跟委員說明\n\n17\n00:05:46,778 --> 00:06:15,675\n那第二部分是就共諜案來講我們國安情報單位來講我們會分享相關的一個情資情訊那假如有比較明確的一個違法的事證的話我們就會請司法單位來進行偵辦那所以怎麼樣來嚴查嚴辦也是我們在處理共諜案主要的一個處理的因應的方式那第三個部分就是在法治的部分想要能夠來嚴懲共諜案達到嚇阻效果的話我們也必須要來檢視我們的相關的法令規定有沒有不足的地方\n\n18\n00:06:16,115 --> 00:06:44,045\n那總統在3月13號召開國安高層會議也有特別提醒要求我們行政部門要針對法律的適用有沒有哪些可以在更精進的地方來做一些檢討那這部分我們國安局跟法務部有在討論除了法律面的檢討但是現在的機關已經到總統府到國會裡頭來這個是非同小可所以我也敬請這個國安局這邊你們的政策方向應對要如何去精進\n\n19\n00:06:45,025 --> 00:07:13,381\n這個是很重要的這部分也跟剛剛幾位委員先進在討論也就是政府各機關不管行政部門或是立法院這邊對於一些人員的禁用怎麼樣來建立起一個安查的機制那認為人員的核密階密的等級怎麼樣有一個規範那同時在文書文件的核密也應該要有一套制度那這部分我們在國安單位事實上已經行之有年那假如說立法院也有類似的一個規劃的話我們很樂意來提供相關的意見給大院來做參考\n\n20\n00:07:14,485 --> 00:07:28,501\n所以這個除了參考之外我想國家是議題的尤其到了總統府跟這個國會那更要嚴肅的來看待這個議題方案要怎麼做讓我們的國家能夠安全這是非常重要的謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n712\t21476\t謝謝主席 邀請局長國安局好 姚惠美好局長好那針對於川普政府宣布對外貿易與投資政策那包括了各國的鋼、鋁、汽車關稅到25%甚至對各國的課徵的10%到50%的對等關稅\n29117\t51893\t也派引導整個製造業能夠回流到美國關稅政策一出引發了國人的恐慌尤其是我們產業界非常非常的憂心在川普政策出爐前政府要人民安心強調風險可控政府有準備沒想到美國政府最後對我們課稅是高達32%的關稅\n54855\t83712\t那政府是不是在事前已經有掌控到相關的資訊那我們國安團隊的判斷到底是什麼所以首先來請教國安會議的結論最後是不是誠如柯總召所說的是這個關稅是10%請教沒有這部分應該行政院已經有對外說明當時在評估可能美國對等關稅的稅增的那個會多大\n85578\t90660\t那當時是有抓一個蠻大的幅度那最大的幅度應該是比現在的32%還要大剛剛在這個經濟委員會呢部長跟劉主委國防會都說當時的這個準備是10%到35%是不是如此\n104617\t125698\t對 我尊重行政院相關部會的對外說明你對外說明就是同意所以我們不希望說民眾聽到的訊息是差別這麼大因為柯總召是鐵口直斷的說放心啦 就是只有10%可是隔天出來的答案是如此讓人民真的恐慌我們也不希望\n126398\t143115\t讓人民這麼恐慌不可以所以政府必須要有所應對那所以在這個對等的關稅的議題之前台積電對美的投資那麼已經引起了不少的討論也有人憂心也就是說\n144156\t168692\t不少人質疑說台積電變美積電那也有人憂心說赴美之後的投資會削弱了台灣晶片的一個優勢那麼台積電的半導體它的角色地位我們的描述是承諾是台灣的戲盾但是我們也看到美方說了他說未來有4成的晶片在美生產換句話說更有人說這會陷入了我們\n172774\t194384\t一個安全的困境那也就是說美國得到了這個台積電的一個投資確保了美國供應鏈的一個安全但是我們台灣的資產安全反而是讓我們會不穩定所以在這種情況之下請教局長台積電對美投資的增加對我國安有什麼影響請教\n195475\t221963\t我想第一部分先說明一下因為台積電畢竟是一家民營的企業它的海外的佈局投資我想我們國安單位不適合做評論好或不好但是從國際情報的角度我可以跟委員分享報告的是就國際的所謂半導體的產業來講它是一個蠻大的全球的生態系所以我相信我們的廠商在做相關的投資佈局一定都會有它的一個評估跟考量\n222443\t241741\t那相關的投資對於他的企業是不是在擴展市場上或是在供應的安全上或是更多的訂單的爭取上他一定會有一些評估那這部分我想注重但是在我們的盾牌如果削弱了這個盾牌當然人民會有所疑慮所以在我們整個國安的方面我們的影響\n242761\t259846\t對 也跟委員說明一下因為我們國內的那個半導體的產業的供應鏈生態系非常的完整那有非常優秀的勞動力那也有非常先進的技術它要在短期被取代的可能性沒有那麼高所以換句話說我們還是合作\n264351\t272944\t看到這個問題我們要好好的去應對滾動式的一個檢討接下來本席要請教國安局您自個兒的統計報告2020年到現在共諜案的起訴\n278172\t292077\t有159人那其中現役跟退役的有95人他的占比是60%那上週更傳出有總統府的資議立法院的國會的助理涉這個共諜案\n294318\t309301\t這一些的事件讓國人就非常非常的不安那麼顯示中共試圖對於我們整個軍事單位以及政府的機關它是進行滲透企圖取得了機密的一個\n310941\t326727\t這個資訊所以在這樣的情況之下局長面對這樣子的威脅增加那我方如何應應呢你要怎麼樣去加強這一個查核來確保我們國家的這個機敏性的資訊能夠得到安全請做說明\n327747\t345918\t就這部分我想會做這些共諜案的揭露主要是讓我們的社會大眾更可以知道中共對台灣進行滲透的一些手法跟樣態那我們這樣子才能夠強化我們的社會韌性來防範中共對台灣有更多的這些在地協力者網絡的建構這是第一點跟委員說明\n346778\t375675\t那第二部分是就共諜案來講我們國安情報單位來講我們會分享相關的一個情資情訊那假如有比較明確的一個違法的事證的話我們就會請司法單位來進行偵辦那所以怎麼樣來嚴查嚴辦也是我們在處理共諜案主要的一個處理的因應的方式那第三個部分就是在法治的部分想要能夠來嚴懲共諜案達到嚇阻效果的話我們也必須要來檢視我們的相關的法令規定有沒有不足的地方\n376115\t404045\t那總統在3月13號召開國安高層會議也有特別提醒要求我們行政部門要針對法律的適用有沒有哪些可以在更精進的地方來做一些檢討那這部分我們國安局跟法務部有在討論除了法律面的檢討但是現在的機關已經到總統府到國會裡頭來這個是非同小可所以我也敬請這個國安局這邊你們的政策方向應對要如何去精進\n405025\t433381\t這個是很重要的這部分也跟剛剛幾位委員先進在討論也就是政府各機關不管行政部門或是立法院這邊對於一些人員的禁用怎麼樣來建立起一個安查的機制那認為人員的核密階密的等級怎麼樣有一個規範那同時在文書文件的核密也應該要有一套制度那這部分我們在國安單位事實上已經行之有年那假如說立法院也有類似的一個規劃的話我們很樂意來提供相關的意見給大院來做參考\n434485\t448501\t所以這個除了參考之外我想國家是議題的尤其到了總統府跟這個國會那更要嚴肅的來看待這個議題方案要怎麼做讓我們的國家能夠安全這是非常重要的謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 邀請局長國安局好 姚惠美好局長好那針對於川普政府宣布對外貿易與投資政策那包括了各國的鋼、鋁、汽車關稅到25%甚至對各國的課徵的10%到50%的對等關稅\n也派引導整個製造業能夠回流到美國關稅政策一出引發了國人的恐慌尤其是我們產業界非常非常的憂心在川普政策出爐前政府要人民安心強調風險可控政府有準備沒想到美國政府最後對我們課稅是高達32%的關稅\n那政府是不是在事前已經有掌控到相關的資訊那我們國安團隊的判斷到底是什麼所以首先來請教國安會議的結論最後是不是誠如柯總召所說的是這個關稅是10%請教沒有這部分應該行政院已經有對外說明當時在評估可能美國對等關稅的稅增的那個會多大\n那當時是有抓一個蠻大的幅度那最大的幅度應該是比現在的32%還要大剛剛在這個經濟委員會呢部長跟劉主委國防會都說當時的這個準備是10%到35%是不是如此\n對 我尊重行政院相關部會的對外說明你對外說明就是同意所以我們不希望說民眾聽到的訊息是差別這麼大因為柯總召是鐵口直斷的說放心啦 就是只有10%可是隔天出來的答案是如此讓人民真的恐慌我們也不希望\n讓人民這麼恐慌不可以所以政府必須要有所應對那所以在這個對等的關稅的議題之前台積電對美的投資那麼已經引起了不少的討論也有人憂心也就是說\n不少人質疑說台積電變美積電那也有人憂心說赴美之後的投資會削弱了台灣晶片的一個優勢那麼台積電的半導體它的角色地位我們的描述是承諾是台灣的戲盾但是我們也看到美方說了他說未來有4成的晶片在美生產換句話說更有人說這會陷入了我們\n一個安全的困境那也就是說美國得到了這個台積電的一個投資確保了美國供應鏈的一個安全但是我們台灣的資產安全反而是讓我們會不穩定所以在這種情況之下請教局長台積電對美投資的增加對我國安有什麼影響請教\n我想第一部分先說明一下因為台積電畢竟是一家民營的企業它的海外的佈局投資我想我們國安單位不適合做評論好或不好但是從國際情報的角度我可以跟委員分享報告的是就國際的所謂半導體的產業來講它是一個蠻大的全球的生態系所以我相信我們的廠商在做相關的投資佈局一定都會有它的一個評估跟考量\n那相關的投資對於他的企業是不是在擴展市場上或是在供應的安全上或是更多的訂單的爭取上他一定會有一些評估那這部分我想注重但是在我們的盾牌如果削弱了這個盾牌當然人民會有所疑慮所以在我們整個國安的方面我們的影響\n對 也跟委員說明一下因為我們國內的那個半導體的產業的供應鏈生態系非常的完整那有非常優秀的勞動力那也有非常先進的技術它要在短期被取代的可能性沒有那麼高所以換句話說我們還是合作\n看到這個問題我們要好好的去應對滾動式的一個檢討接下來本席要請教國安局您自個兒的統計報告2020年到現在共諜案的起訴\n有159人那其中現役跟退役的有95人他的占比是60%那上週更傳出有總統府的資議立法院的國會的助理涉這個共諜案\n這一些的事件讓國人就非常非常的不安那麼顯示中共試圖對於我們整個軍事單位以及政府的機關它是進行滲透企圖取得了機密的一個\n這個資訊所以在這樣的情況之下局長面對這樣子的威脅增加那我方如何應應呢你要怎麼樣去加強這一個查核來確保我們國家的這個機敏性的資訊能夠得到安全請做說明\n就這部分我想會做這些共諜案的揭露主要是讓我們的社會大眾更可以知道中共對台灣進行滲透的一些手法跟樣態那我們這樣子才能夠強化我們的社會韌性來防範中共對台灣有更多的這些在地協力者網絡的建構這是第一點跟委員說明\n那第二部分是就共諜案來講我們國安情報單位來講我們會分享相關的一個情資情訊那假如有比較明確的一個違法的事證的話我們就會請司法單位來進行偵辦那所以怎麼樣來嚴查嚴辦也是我們在處理共諜案主要的一個處理的因應的方式那第三個部分就是在法治的部分想要能夠來嚴懲共諜案達到嚇阻效果的話我們也必須要來檢視我們的相關的法令規定有沒有不足的地方\n那總統在3月13號召開國安高層會議也有特別提醒要求我們行政部門要針對法律的適用有沒有哪些可以在更精進的地方來做一些檢討那這部分我們國安局跟法務部有在討論除了法律面的檢討但是現在的機關已經到總統府到國會裡頭來這個是非同小可所以我也敬請這個國安局這邊你們的政策方向應對要如何去精進\n這個是很重要的這部分也跟剛剛幾位委員先進在討論也就是政府各機關不管行政部門或是立法院這邊對於一些人員的禁用怎麼樣來建立起一個安查的機制那認為人員的核密階密的等級怎麼樣有一個規範那同時在文書文件的核密也應該要有一套制度那這部分我們在國安單位事實上已經行之有年那假如說立法院也有類似的一個規劃的話我們很樂意來提供相關的意見給大院來做參考\n所以這個除了參考之外我想國家是議題的尤其到了總統府跟這個國會那更要嚴肅的來看待這個議題方案要怎麼做讓我們的國家能夠安全這是非常重要的謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.712 --> 00:21.476\n謝謝主席邀請局長國安局好姚惠美好局長好那針對於川普政府宣布對外貿易與投資政策那包括了各國的鋼、鋁、汽車關稅到25%甚至對各國的課徵的10%到50%的對等關稅\n\n00:29.117 --> 00:51.893\n也派引導整個製造業能夠回流到美國關稅政策一出引發了國人的恐慌尤其是我們產業界非常非常的憂心在川普政策出爐前政府要人民安心強調風險可控政府有準備沒想到美國政府最後對我們課稅是高達32%的關稅\n\n00:54.855 --> 01:23.712\n那政府是不是在事前已經有掌控到相關的資訊那我們國安團隊的判斷到底是什麼所以首先來請教國安會議的結論最後是不是誠如柯總召所說的是這個關稅是10%請教沒有這部分應該行政院已經有對外說明當時在評估可能美國對等關稅的稅增的那個會多大\n\n01:25.578 --> 01:30.660\n那當時是有抓一個蠻大的幅度那最大的幅度應該是比現在的32%還要大剛剛在這個經濟委員會呢部長跟劉主委國防會都說當時的這個準備是10%到35%是不是如此\n\n01:44.617 --> 02:05.698\n對我尊重行政院相關部會的對外說明你對外說明就是同意所以我們不希望說民眾聽到的訊息是差別這麼大因為柯總召是鐵口直斷的說放心啦就是只有10%可是隔天出來的答案是如此讓人民真的恐慌我們也不希望\n\n02:06.398 --> 02:23.115\n讓人民這麼恐慌不可以所以政府必須要有所應對那所以在這個對等的關稅的議題之前台積電對美的投資那麼已經引起了不少的討論也有人憂心也就是說\n\n02:24.156 --> 02:48.692\n不少人質疑說台積電變美積電那也有人憂心說赴美之後的投資會削弱了台灣晶片的一個優勢那麼台積電的半導體它的角色地位我們的描述是承諾是台灣的戲盾但是我們也看到美方說了他說未來有4成的晶片在美生產換句話說更有人說這會陷入了我們\n\n02:52.774 --> 03:14.384\n一個安全的困境那也就是說美國得到了這個台積電的一個投資確保了美國供應鏈的一個安全但是我們台灣的資產安全反而是讓我們會不穩定所以在這種情況之下請教局長台積電對美投資的增加對我國安有什麼影響請教\n\n03:15.475 --> 03:41.963\n我想第一部分先說明一下因為台積電畢竟是一家民營的企業它的海外的佈局投資我想我們國安單位不適合做評論好或不好但是從國際情報的角度我可以跟委員分享報告的是就國際的所謂半導體的產業來講它是一個蠻大的全球的生態系所以我相信我們的廠商在做相關的投資佈局一定都會有它的一個評估跟考量\n\n03:42.443 --> 04:01.741\n那相關的投資對於他的企業是不是在擴展市場上或是在供應的安全上或是更多的訂單的爭取上他一定會有一些評估那這部分我想注重但是在我們的盾牌如果削弱了這個盾牌當然人民會有所疑慮所以在我們整個國安的方面我們的影響\n\n04:02.761 --> 04:19.846\n對也跟委員說明一下因為我們國內的那個半導體的產業的供應鏈生態系非常的完整那有非常優秀的勞動力那也有非常先進的技術它要在短期被取代的可能性沒有那麼高所以換句話說我們還是合作\n\n04:24.351 --> 04:32.944\n看到這個問題我們要好好的去應對滾動式的一個檢討接下來本席要請教國安局您自個兒的統計報告2020年到現在共諜案的起訴\n\n04:38.172 --> 04:52.077\n有159人那其中現役跟退役的有95人他的占比是60%那上週更傳出有總統府的資議立法院的國會的助理涉這個共諜案\n\n04:54.318 --> 05:09.301\n這一些的事件讓國人就非常非常的不安那麼顯示中共試圖對於我們整個軍事單位以及政府的機關它是進行滲透企圖取得了機密的一個\n\n05:10.941 --> 05:26.727\n這個資訊所以在這樣的情況之下局長面對這樣子的威脅增加那我方如何應應呢你要怎麼樣去加強這一個查核來確保我們國家的這個機敏性的資訊能夠得到安全請做說明\n\n05:27.747 --> 05:45.918\n就這部分我想會做這些共諜案的揭露主要是讓我們的社會大眾更可以知道中共對台灣進行滲透的一些手法跟樣態那我們這樣子才能夠強化我們的社會韌性來防範中共對台灣有更多的這些在地協力者網絡的建構這是第一點跟委員說明\n\n05:46.778 --> 06:15.675\n那第二部分是就共諜案來講我們國安情報單位來講我們會分享相關的一個情資情訊那假如有比較明確的一個違法的事證的話我們就會請司法單位來進行偵辦那所以怎麼樣來嚴查嚴辦也是我們在處理共諜案主要的一個處理的因應的方式那第三個部分就是在法治的部分想要能夠來嚴懲共諜案達到嚇阻效果的話我們也必須要來檢視我們的相關的法令規定有沒有不足的地方\n\n06:16.115 --> 06:44.045\n那總統在3月13號召開國安高層會議也有特別提醒要求我們行政部門要針對法律的適用有沒有哪些可以在更精進的地方來做一些檢討那這部分我們國安局跟法務部有在討論除了法律面的檢討但是現在的機關已經到總統府到國會裡頭來這個是非同小可所以我也敬請這個國安局這邊你們的政策方向應對要如何去精進\n\n06:45.025 --> 07:13.381\n這個是很重要的這部分也跟剛剛幾位委員先進在討論也就是政府各機關不管行政部門或是立法院這邊對於一些人員的禁用怎麼樣來建立起一個安查的機制那認為人員的核密階密的等級怎麼樣有一個規範那同時在文書文件的核密也應該要有一套制度那這部分我們在國安單位事實上已經行之有年那假如說立法院也有類似的一個規劃的話我們很樂意來提供相關的意見給大院來做參考\n\n07:14.485 --> 07:28.501\n所以這個除了參考之外我想國家是議題的尤其到了總統府跟這個國會那更要嚴肅的來看待這個議題方案要怎麼做讓我們的國家能夠安全這是非常重要的謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.712,"end":21.476,"text":"謝謝主席 邀請局長國安局好 姚惠美好局長好那針對於川普政府宣布對外貿易與投資政策那包括了各國的鋼、鋁、汽車關稅到25%甚至對各國的課徵的10%到50%的對等關稅"},{"start":29.117,"end":51.893,"text":"也派引導整個製造業能夠回流到美國關稅政策一出引發了國人的恐慌尤其是我們產業界非常非常的憂心在川普政策出爐前政府要人民安心強調風險可控政府有準備沒想到美國政府最後對我們課稅是高達32%的關稅"},{"start":54.855,"end":83.712,"text":"那政府是不是在事前已經有掌控到相關的資訊那我們國安團隊的判斷到底是什麼所以首先來請教國安會議的結論最後是不是誠如柯總召所說的是這個關稅是10%請教沒有這部分應該行政院已經有對外說明當時在評估可能美國對等關稅的稅增的那個會多大"},{"start":85.578,"end":90.66,"text":"那當時是有抓一個蠻大的幅度那最大的幅度應該是比現在的32%還要大剛剛在這個經濟委員會呢部長跟劉主委國防會都說當時的這個準備是10%到35%是不是如此"},{"start":104.617,"end":125.698,"text":"對 我尊重行政院相關部會的對外說明你對外說明就是同意所以我們不希望說民眾聽到的訊息是差別這麼大因為柯總召是鐵口直斷的說放心啦 就是只有10%可是隔天出來的答案是如此讓人民真的恐慌我們也不希望"},{"start":126.398,"end":143.115,"text":"讓人民這麼恐慌不可以所以政府必須要有所應對那所以在這個對等的關稅的議題之前台積電對美的投資那麼已經引起了不少的討論也有人憂心也就是說"},{"start":144.156,"end":168.692,"text":"不少人質疑說台積電變美積電那也有人憂心說赴美之後的投資會削弱了台灣晶片的一個優勢那麼台積電的半導體它的角色地位我們的描述是承諾是台灣的戲盾但是我們也看到美方說了他說未來有4成的晶片在美生產換句話說更有人說這會陷入了我們"},{"start":172.774,"end":194.384,"text":"一個安全的困境那也就是說美國得到了這個台積電的一個投資確保了美國供應鏈的一個安全但是我們台灣的資產安全反而是讓我們會不穩定所以在這種情況之下請教局長台積電對美投資的增加對我國安有什麼影響請教"},{"start":195.475,"end":221.963,"text":"我想第一部分先說明一下因為台積電畢竟是一家民營的企業它的海外的佈局投資我想我們國安單位不適合做評論好或不好但是從國際情報的角度我可以跟委員分享報告的是就國際的所謂半導體的產業來講它是一個蠻大的全球的生態系所以我相信我們的廠商在做相關的投資佈局一定都會有它的一個評估跟考量"},{"start":222.443,"end":241.741,"text":"那相關的投資對於他的企業是不是在擴展市場上或是在供應的安全上或是更多的訂單的爭取上他一定會有一些評估那這部分我想注重但是在我們的盾牌如果削弱了這個盾牌當然人民會有所疑慮所以在我們整個國安的方面我們的影響"},{"start":242.761,"end":259.846,"text":"對 也跟委員說明一下因為我們國內的那個半導體的產業的供應鏈生態系非常的完整那有非常優秀的勞動力那也有非常先進的技術它要在短期被取代的可能性沒有那麼高所以換句話說我們還是合作"},{"start":264.351,"end":272.944,"text":"看到這個問題我們要好好的去應對滾動式的一個檢討接下來本席要請教國安局您自個兒的統計報告2020年到現在共諜案的起訴"},{"start":278.172,"end":292.077,"text":"有159人那其中現役跟退役的有95人他的占比是60%那上週更傳出有總統府的資議立法院的國會的助理涉這個共諜案"},{"start":294.318,"end":309.301,"text":"這一些的事件讓國人就非常非常的不安那麼顯示中共試圖對於我們整個軍事單位以及政府的機關它是進行滲透企圖取得了機密的一個"},{"start":310.941,"end":326.727,"text":"這個資訊所以在這樣的情況之下局長面對這樣子的威脅增加那我方如何應應呢你要怎麼樣去加強這一個查核來確保我們國家的這個機敏性的資訊能夠得到安全請做說明"},{"start":327.747,"end":345.918,"text":"就這部分我想會做這些共諜案的揭露主要是讓我們的社會大眾更可以知道中共對台灣進行滲透的一些手法跟樣態那我們這樣子才能夠強化我們的社會韌性來防範中共對台灣有更多的這些在地協力者網絡的建構這是第一點跟委員說明"},{"start":346.778,"end":375.675,"text":"那第二部分是就共諜案來講我們國安情報單位來講我們會分享相關的一個情資情訊那假如有比較明確的一個違法的事證的話我們就會請司法單位來進行偵辦那所以怎麼樣來嚴查嚴辦也是我們在處理共諜案主要的一個處理的因應的方式那第三個部分就是在法治的部分想要能夠來嚴懲共諜案達到嚇阻效果的話我們也必須要來檢視我們的相關的法令規定有沒有不足的地方"},{"start":376.115,"end":404.045,"text":"那總統在3月13號召開國安高層會議也有特別提醒要求我們行政部門要針對法律的適用有沒有哪些可以在更精進的地方來做一些檢討那這部分我們國安局跟法務部有在討論除了法律面的檢討但是現在的機關已經到總統府到國會裡頭來這個是非同小可所以我也敬請這個國安局這邊你們的政策方向應對要如何去精進"},{"start":405.025,"end":433.381,"text":"這個是很重要的這部分也跟剛剛幾位委員先進在討論也就是政府各機關不管行政部門或是立法院這邊對於一些人員的禁用怎麼樣來建立起一個安查的機制那認為人員的核密階密的等級怎麼樣有一個規範那同時在文書文件的核密也應該要有一套制度那這部分我們在國安單位事實上已經行之有年那假如說立法院也有類似的一個規劃的話我們很樂意來提供相關的意見給大院來做參考"},{"start":434.485,"end":448.501,"text":"所以這個除了參考之外我想國家是議題的尤其到了總統府跟這個國會那更要嚴肅的來看待這個議題方案要怎麼做讓我們的國家能夠安全這是非常重要的謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":685,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（11時20分）謝謝主席，邀請國安局局長。"],["蔡局長明彥：楊委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：局長好。對於川普政府宣布對外貿易與投資政策，包括各國的鋼、鋁、汽車關稅到25%，甚至對各國課徵了10到50%的對等關稅，盼引導整個製造業能夠回流到美國，關稅政策一出，引發了國人的恐慌，尤其是我們產業界非常、非常的憂心。在川普政策出爐前，政府要人命安心，強調風險可控、政府有準備，沒想到美國政府最後對我們課徵高達32%的關稅，政府是不是在事前已經有掌控到相關的資訊，我們國安團隊的判斷到底是什麼？首先請教國安會議的結論，最後是不是誠如柯總召所說的，這個關稅是10%？"],["蔡局長明彥：沒有，這部分應該行政院已經有對外說明，當時評估美國對等關稅的稅徵範圍可能會多大，當時有抓一個滿大的幅度，最大的幅度應該是比現在的32%還要大。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：剛剛在經濟委員會，部長跟國發會劉主委都說當時的準備是10%到35%，是不是如此？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，我尊重行政院相關部會的對外說明。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你就是同意他們的對外說明，我們不希望民眾聽到的訊息差別這麼大，因為柯總召鐵口直斷的說：放心，只有10%！可是隔天出來的答案是如此，讓人民真的恐慌，我們也不希望讓人民這麼恐慌，不可以！所以政府必須要有所應對。","在這個對等關稅的議題之前，台積電對美的投資已經引起了不少討論，不少人質疑台積電變美積電，也有人憂心，赴美投資之後會削弱了臺灣的晶片優勢，台積電在半導體的角色地位，我們的描述是誠如臺灣的矽盾！但是我們也看到美方說了，他說未來有四成的晶片在美生產，換句話說，更有人說我們陷入了一個安全困境，也就是說，美國得到了台積電的投資，確保了美國供應鏈的安全，但是我們臺灣自身的安全反而變得不穩定。在這種情況之下請教局長，台積電對美投資增加對我國安有什麼影響？"],["蔡局長明彥：第一部分先說明一下，因為台積電畢竟是一家民營的企業，他的海外布局投資，我想我們國安單位不適合評論好或不好；但是從國際情報角度我可以跟委員分享、報告的是，就國際的半導體產業來講，它是一個滿大的全球生態系，所以我相信我們廠商在做相關的投資布局一定都會有它的評估跟考量，相關的投資對於企業本身在擴展市場上、在供應鏈安全上或是更多訂單的爭取上他一定會有一些評估，這一部分尊重……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這是市場上的布局，但是在我們的盾牌方面，如果削弱了這個盾牌，當然人民會有所疑慮，所以在我們整個國安方面到底有什麼影響？"],["蔡局長明彥：不過也跟委員說明一下，因為我們國內半導體產業的供應鏈、生態系非常完整，有非常優秀的勞動力、也有非常先進的技術，它要在短期被取代的可能性沒有那麼高，所以這一部份可能也是委員要對……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：換句話說，我們還是有所……看到這個問題，我們要好好的去應對、滾動式的檢討。"],["蔡局長明彥：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：接下來本席要請教，關於國安局本身的統計報告，2020年到現在，共諜案起訴159人，其中現役跟退役的有95人，占比60%；上週更傳出有總統府的諮議、立法院的國會助理涉共諜案，這一些事件讓國人非常、非常的不安，顯示中共試圖對於我們整個軍事單位以及政府機關進行滲透、企圖取得機密資訊。在這樣的情況之下，局長，面對這樣子的威脅增加，我方如何因應呢？你要怎麼樣加強查核來確保我們國家的機敏性資訊能夠安全？請做說明。"],["蔡局長明彥：就這部分，我想會做這些共諜案的揭露，主要是讓我們的社會大眾更可以知道中共對臺灣進行滲透的一些手法跟樣態，這樣子才能夠強化我們的社會韌性，防範中共對臺灣有更多在地協力者、網絡的建構，這是第一點跟委員說明；第二部分就共諜案來講，我們國安情報單位會分享相關的情資、情訊，假如有比較明確的違法事證，我們就會移請司法單位來進行偵辦，所以怎麼樣來嚴查、嚴辦也是我們在處理共諜案的主要處理因應方式；第三個在法治的部分，想要嚴懲共諜案來達到嚇阻效果的話，我們也必須要檢視我們的相關法令規定有沒有不足的地方，總統在3月13號召開國安高層會議也有特別提醒，要求我們行政部門要針對法律適用有沒有哪些可以再更精進的地方做一些檢討，這一部分我們國安局跟法務部有在討論。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是，除了法律面的檢討，但是現在的機關已經到總統府、到國會裡頭來，這個非同小可，所以我也敬請國安局，你們的政策、方向、應對要如何去精進，這個是很重要的事。"],["蔡局長明彥：對，這部分也跟剛剛幾位委員先進在討論，也就是政府各機關，不管行政部門或是立法院，對於一些人員進用怎麼樣建立起一個安查機制，針對人員的核密、接密等級怎麼樣有一個規範，同時在文書、文件的核密也應該要有一套制度，這一部分我們國安單位已經行之有年，假如立法院也有類似規劃的話，我們很樂意提供相關意見給大院做參考。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這個除了參考之外，我想國家是一體的，尤其到了總統府跟國會，更要嚴肅地來看待這個議題，方案要怎麼做才能讓我們的國家安全，這是非常重要的。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝委員提醒。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：謝謝。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝楊瓊瓔委員上臺質詢。","接下來由沈伯洋委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":60,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-6","speakers":["黃仁","羅美玲","徐巧芯","陳俊宇","陳冠廷","馬文君","王定宇","林楚茵","楊瓊瓔","沈伯洋","李坤城","王鴻薇","林憶君"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-04-09"],"gazette_id":"1143601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143601_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥率相關情報機關首長提出「國家情報工作暨國家安全局業務報告」，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143601_00001"}}}