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\"end\": 291.918, \"text\": \"也陸陸續續的涉入所以我才想請問局長這個事件現在我們所了解的大概有四個人當然我也注意到民進黨相繼的開除了他們的黨籍那這個案件有沒有擴大的可能或跡象就個案來講希望能夠得到委員的理解因為個案我比較不適合去談它的案情或案況因為檢方已經在立案正版\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 264.821, \"end\": 265.782, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"陸\"}, {\"word\": \"陸\"}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 265.782, \"end\": 266.002, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"涉\", \"start\": 266.002, \"end\": 266.302, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 266.302, \"end\": 266.862, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 266.862, \"end\": 266.982, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 266.982, \"end\": 267.082, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 267.082, \"end\": 267.283, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 267.283, \"end\": 267.523, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 267.523, \"end\": 268.303, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"局\", \"start\": 268.303, \"end\": 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\"start\": 479.816, \"end\": 479.836, \"score\": 0.024}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 479.836, \"end\": 479.976, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 479.976, \"end\": 479.996, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,505 --> 00:00:22,954\n好謝謝主席我請我們蔡局長好辛苦了局長請教一下其實現在我們重中之重就是針對美國的關稅戰特別是雖然這是全球的問題但是因為終究對台灣來講我們是一個外銷\n\n2\n00:00:26,295 --> 00:00:41,971\n為主要的導向的一個國家而且呢說實在我們真的也經不起這樣的一個這麼高的關稅所以我今天有注意到早上這個我們局長也有特別提到就說我們現在確實已經會派\n\n3\n00:00:44,794 --> 00:01:03,832\n這個特使團然後去跟美方做交涉那但是我們知道按照我們過去的經驗其實經濟部在今年初就有派過一個代表團但是呢非常可惜我想局長也很清楚其實我們並沒有見到什麼主要的keyman所以呢我想請問一下\n\n4\n00:01:06,590 --> 00:01:31,073\n我們這一次的對美的交涉例如說我們過去比如說在APEC像張忠謀先生歷次都擔任我們這個總統的特使去參加國際性的會議所以他跟外國很多的領袖都是好朋友更不要說台積電在川普總統裡面也認為是一個信譽及卓著非常良好的公司\n\n5\n00:01:31,733 --> 00:01:54,347\n所以今天我們有提到就是我們的副總召有提到建議是不是能夠敦請張忠謀先生在這一次台灣這樣的一個危機中可不可以來擔任我們的一個特使去跟對美交涉所以我不曉得局長你對這樣的看法你覺得如何\n\n6\n00:01:55,024 --> 00:02:07,191\n尊重委員的一些意見喔那也可以理解委員背後的問題意識當然是擔心說台灣在這一波的關稅的衝擊之下對我們的產業會產生一些影響那所以委員的這些建議我們尊重\n\n7\n00:02:07,979 --> 00:02:26,184\n因為我們現在知道有好幾十個國家將近百個國家都在排隊跟美國想要交涉但是我想我們如果今天是派出張忠謀先生至少我想我們可以應該可以排的順序應該比較前面一點所以局長你同不同意我的\n\n8\n00:02:26,804 --> 00:02:48,999\n尊重委員的分析好那局長另外一個很重要的事情你們的報告也說有關於這個共諜案那麼最近大家高度的關心那麼過去五年起訴的159人裡面有六成都是現金人或者是退役的軍人但是最近我們出現了就是發現\n\n9\n00:02:50,200 --> 00:03:13,169\n在不管是在立法院裡面立法院委員的助理或者是總統府的資議或者是議員的助理或者是像民進黨民主學院裡面的他們的主任前副主任相繼的發生就是涉入共諜案這個當然也引起社會很大的震撼那麼\n\n10\n00:03:15,410 --> 00:03:35,218\n局長我想請問一下就你所了解現在有關於相關的共諜案涉嫌他滲入在執政黨或者是在立法院執政黨的立委或者議員或者是相關機構裡面這樣的案情到底嚴不嚴重\n\n11\n00:03:36,981 --> 00:03:54,590\n跟委員說明一下因為早上我也跟媒體朋友在報告共諜案它因為涉及到背叛國家傷害國家利益所以就我們國安情報機關來講只要有相關的線索的話我們一定會全力的來查查全力的來偵辦那也不會分任何的黨派也不管它是什麼樣的職務\n\n12\n00:03:55,230 --> 00:04:24,161\n所以只要有這樣的個案的話我們就依照相關的事證來收集情訊那有必要就來提供給檢調單位來做偵辦局長這個事件為什麼也引起高度的關注譬如說你當過前立法院院長的助理因為你所接觸的資料當然又不一樣那個等級證都不一樣還有這個當然我覺得這不是黨派之爭而是作為執政黨的民意代表的助理\n\n13\n00:04:24,821 --> 00:04:51,918\n也陸陸續續的涉入所以我才想請問局長這個事件現在我們所了解的大概有四個人當然我也注意到民進黨相繼的開除了他們的黨籍那這個案件有沒有擴大的可能或跡象就個案來講希望能夠得到委員的理解因為個案我比較不適合去談它的案情或案況因為檢方已經在立案正版\n\n14\n00:04:52,642 --> 00:05:16,480\n那我請問局長這裡面其中有一位叫做盛楚英他竟然是20萬元交保就像您所說的涉入共諜案他可能已經涉及交付國家的機密或者一些機密文件20萬可以交保這是辦共諜案的\n\n15\n00:05:17,060 --> 00:05:37,803\n一個標準嗎而且他立刻去關閉他所有的社交平台那這個其實大家外界就會認為他立刻是不是有這種滅政的可能所以如果辦共諜案20萬交保這個水準從國安局的角度來看會不會增加到時候辦案的一個困難度\n\n16\n00:05:38,664 --> 00:06:03,904\n我們比較不適合去評論審理機關就是法院他對於要不要交保以及交保金額額度的一個裁判那我們尊重法院的一個相關的裁決沒有局長我知道你不願意對個案去做說明但是我要講的就是這個案子到目前為止因為他牽涉了他不是只有一位他就牽涉了好幾位那我們不曉得是不是一個集體辦案的行為\n\n17\n00:06:04,705 --> 00:06:27,070\n但是裡面其中有一位而且是20萬交保我今天要特別講的除非他並不是共諜案但是如果真的已經被涉及到共諜案然後20萬元就交保然後又可以准許他可以快速的關閉他所有的這些相關的平台我覺得這個是未來整個的辦案\n\n18\n00:06:28,686 --> 00:06:35,168\n可能國安局也要跟檢調單位去做一些溝通的你們同不同意\n\n19\n00:06:37,774 --> 00:06:59,852\n理解委員提到這樣的一個樣態要注意的地方那這我們再來加強注意但我必須跟委員說明的是共諜案是媒體的用語那每個案情案況可能都不太一樣那這可能會影響到剛剛委員所質疑的最後請教一下今天早上徐巧欣委員有特別提到但是你覺得說巧欣委員的資訊是\n\n20\n00:07:01,033 --> 00:07:11,297\n他那個資訊不是正確的所以我是很善意的提醒所以你是否認嗎就是國安局裡面的我跟委員說明一下就是當時的質詢的內容的\n\n21\n00:07:14,252 --> 00:07:40,265\n是不是正確的內容那我很怕他做這樣的指控會有一些不必要的問題我指的是法律問題所以我是適度的在提醒我的內容是不太正確的如果國安局裡面也出現有人涉嫌供點案我覺得是非同小可所以恐怕也許您的用字要更為精準一些然後我老實講我會認為該承認就要承認該澄清就要澄清\n\n22\n00:07:40,965 --> 00:07:59,996\n因為我覺得現在真的已經營造一個匪諜就在你身邊尤其我們自己在立法院裡面我們自己也非常小心啊對不對應該的所以這一部分我覺得他能夠應該該澄清該承認我覺得不要讓民眾有任何的覺得這個訊息是有模糊的空間好不好好謝謝謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n505\t22954\t好 謝謝主席 我請我們蔡局長好 辛苦了 局長請教一下其實現在我們重中之重就是針對美國的關稅戰特別是雖然這是全球的問題但是因為終究對台灣來講我們是一個外銷\n26295\t41971\t為主要的導向的一個國家而且呢說實在我們真的也經不起這樣的一個這麼高的關稅所以我今天有注意到早上這個我們局長也有特別提到就說我們現在確實已經會派\n44794\t63832\t這個特使團然後去跟美方做交涉那但是我們知道按照我們過去的經驗其實經濟部在今年初就有派過一個代表團但是呢非常可惜我想局長也很清楚其實我們並沒有見到什麼主要的key man所以呢我想請問一下\n66590\t91073\t我們這一次的對美的交涉例如說我們過去比如說在APEC像張忠謀先生歷次都擔任我們這個總統的特使去參加國際性的會議所以他跟外國很多的領袖都是好朋友更不要說台積電在川普總統裡面也認為是一個信譽及卓著非常良好的公司\n91733\t114347\t所以今天我們有提到就是我們的副總召有提到建議是不是能夠敦請張忠謀先生在這一次台灣這樣的一個危機中可不可以來擔任我們的一個特使去跟對美交涉所以我不曉得局長你對這樣的看法你覺得如何\n115024\t127191\t尊重委員的一些意見喔那也可以理解委員背後的問題意識當然是擔心說台灣在這一波的關稅的衝擊之下對我們的產業會產生一些影響那所以委員的這些建議我們尊重\n127979\t146184\t因為我們現在知道有好幾十個國家將近百個國家都在排隊跟美國想要交涉但是我想我們如果今天是派出張忠謀先生至少我想我們可以應該可以排的順序應該比較前面一點所以局長你同不同意我的\n146804\t168999\t尊重委員的分析好那局長另外一個很重要的事情你們的報告也說有關於這個共諜案那麼最近大家高度的關心那麼過去五年起訴的159人裡面有六成都是現金人或者是退役的軍人但是最近我們出現了就是發現\n170200\t193169\t在不管是在立法院裡面立法院委員的助理或者是總統府的資議或者是議員的助理或者是像民進黨民主學院裡面的他們的主任前副主任相繼的發生就是涉入共諜案這個當然也引起社會很大的震撼那麼\n195410\t215218\t局長我想請問一下就你所了解現在有關於相關的共諜案涉嫌他滲入在執政黨或者是在立法院執政黨的立委或者議員或者是相關機構裡面這樣的案情到底嚴不嚴重\n216981\t234590\t跟委員說明一下因為早上我也跟媒體朋友在報告共諜案它因為涉及到背叛國家傷害國家利益所以就我們國安情報機關來講只要有相關的線索的話我們一定會全力的來查查全力的來偵辦那也不會分任何的黨派也不管它是什麼樣的職務\n235230\t264161\t所以只要有這樣的個案的話我們就依照相關的事證來收集情訊那有必要就來提供給檢調單位來做偵辦局長這個事件為什麼也引起高度的關注譬如說你當過前立法院院長的助理因為你所接觸的資料當然又不一樣那個等級證都不一樣還有這個當然我覺得這不是黨派之爭而是作為執政黨的民意代表的助理\n264821\t291918\t也陸陸續續的涉入所以我才想請問局長這個事件現在我們所了解的大概有四個人當然我也注意到民進黨相繼的開除了他們的黨籍那這個案件有沒有擴大的可能或跡象就個案來講希望能夠得到委員的理解因為個案我比較不適合去談它的案情或案況因為檢方已經在立案正版\n292642\t316480\t那我請問局長 這裡面其中有一位 叫做盛楚英他竟然是20萬元交保 就像您所說的 涉入共諜案他可能已經涉及交付國家的機密 或者一些機密文件20萬可以交保 這是辦共諜案的\n317060\t337803\t一個標準嗎而且他立刻去關閉他所有的社交平台那這個其實大家外界就會認為他立刻是不是有這種滅政的可能所以如果辦共諜案20萬交保這個水準從國安局的角度來看會不會增加到時候辦案的一個困難度\n338664\t363904\t我們比較不適合去評論審理機關就是法院他對於要不要交保以及交保金額額度的一個裁判那我們尊重法院的一個相關的裁決沒有局長我知道你不願意對個案去做說明但是我要講的就是這個案子到目前為止因為他牽涉了他不是只有一位他就牽涉了好幾位那我們不曉得是不是一個集體辦案的行為\n364705\t387070\t但是裡面其中有一位而且是20萬交保我今天要特別講的除非他並不是共諜案但是如果真的已經被涉及到共諜案然後20萬元就交保然後又可以准許他可以快速的關閉他所有的這些相關的平台我覺得這個是未來整個的辦案\n388686\t395168\t可能國安局也要跟檢調單位去做一些溝通的你們同不同意\n397774\t419852\t理解委員提到這樣的一個樣態要注意的地方那這我們再來加強注意但我必須跟委員說明的是共諜案是媒體的用語那每個案情案況可能都不太一樣那這可能會影響到剛剛委員所質疑的最後請教一下今天早上徐巧欣委員有特別提到但是你覺得說巧欣委員的資訊是\n421033\t431297\t他那個資訊不是正確的所以我是很善意的提醒所以你是否認嗎就是國安局裡面的我跟委員說明一下就是當時的質詢的內容的\n434252\t460265\t是不是正確的內容那我很怕他做這樣的指控會有一些不必要的問題我指的是法律問題所以我是適度的在提醒我的內容是不太正確的如果國安局裡面也出現有人涉嫌供點案我覺得是非同小可所以恐怕也許您的用字要更為精準一些然後我老實講我會認為該承認就要承認該澄清就要澄清\n460965\t479996\t因為我覺得現在真的已經營造一個匪諜就在你身邊尤其我們自己在立法院裡面我們自己也非常小心啊對不對應該的所以這一部分我覺得他能夠應該該澄清該承認我覺得不要讓民眾有任何的覺得這個訊息是有模糊的空間好不好好 謝謝謝謝委員\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 我請我們蔡局長好 辛苦了 局長請教一下其實現在我們重中之重就是針對美國的關稅戰特別是雖然這是全球的問題但是因為終究對台灣來講我們是一個外銷\n為主要的導向的一個國家而且呢說實在我們真的也經不起這樣的一個這麼高的關稅所以我今天有注意到早上這個我們局長也有特別提到就說我們現在確實已經會派\n這個特使團然後去跟美方做交涉那但是我們知道按照我們過去的經驗其實經濟部在今年初就有派過一個代表團但是呢非常可惜我想局長也很清楚其實我們並沒有見到什麼主要的key man所以呢我想請問一下\n我們這一次的對美的交涉例如說我們過去比如說在APEC像張忠謀先生歷次都擔任我們這個總統的特使去參加國際性的會議所以他跟外國很多的領袖都是好朋友更不要說台積電在川普總統裡面也認為是一個信譽及卓著非常良好的公司\n所以今天我們有提到就是我們的副總召有提到建議是不是能夠敦請張忠謀先生在這一次台灣這樣的一個危機中可不可以來擔任我們的一個特使去跟對美交涉所以我不曉得局長你對這樣的看法你覺得如何\n尊重委員的一些意見喔那也可以理解委員背後的問題意識當然是擔心說台灣在這一波的關稅的衝擊之下對我們的產業會產生一些影響那所以委員的這些建議我們尊重\n因為我們現在知道有好幾十個國家將近百個國家都在排隊跟美國想要交涉但是我想我們如果今天是派出張忠謀先生至少我想我們可以應該可以排的順序應該比較前面一點所以局長你同不同意我的\n尊重委員的分析好那局長另外一個很重要的事情你們的報告也說有關於這個共諜案那麼最近大家高度的關心那麼過去五年起訴的159人裡面有六成都是現金人或者是退役的軍人但是最近我們出現了就是發現\n在不管是在立法院裡面立法院委員的助理或者是總統府的資議或者是議員的助理或者是像民進黨民主學院裡面的他們的主任前副主任相繼的發生就是涉入共諜案這個當然也引起社會很大的震撼那麼\n局長我想請問一下就你所了解現在有關於相關的共諜案涉嫌他滲入在執政黨或者是在立法院執政黨的立委或者議員或者是相關機構裡面這樣的案情到底嚴不嚴重\n跟委員說明一下因為早上我也跟媒體朋友在報告共諜案它因為涉及到背叛國家傷害國家利益所以就我們國安情報機關來講只要有相關的線索的話我們一定會全力的來查查全力的來偵辦那也不會分任何的黨派也不管它是什麼樣的職務\n所以只要有這樣的個案的話我們就依照相關的事證來收集情訊那有必要就來提供給檢調單位來做偵辦局長這個事件為什麼也引起高度的關注譬如說你當過前立法院院長的助理因為你所接觸的資料當然又不一樣那個等級證都不一樣還有這個當然我覺得這不是黨派之爭而是作為執政黨的民意代表的助理\n也陸陸續續的涉入所以我才想請問局長這個事件現在我們所了解的大概有四個人當然我也注意到民進黨相繼的開除了他們的黨籍那這個案件有沒有擴大的可能或跡象就個案來講希望能夠得到委員的理解因為個案我比較不適合去談它的案情或案況因為檢方已經在立案正版\n那我請問局長 這裡面其中有一位 叫做盛楚英他竟然是20萬元交保 就像您所說的 涉入共諜案他可能已經涉及交付國家的機密 或者一些機密文件20萬可以交保 這是辦共諜案的\n一個標準嗎而且他立刻去關閉他所有的社交平台那這個其實大家外界就會認為他立刻是不是有這種滅政的可能所以如果辦共諜案20萬交保這個水準從國安局的角度來看會不會增加到時候辦案的一個困難度\n我們比較不適合去評論審理機關就是法院他對於要不要交保以及交保金額額度的一個裁判那我們尊重法院的一個相關的裁決沒有局長我知道你不願意對個案去做說明但是我要講的就是這個案子到目前為止因為他牽涉了他不是只有一位他就牽涉了好幾位那我們不曉得是不是一個集體辦案的行為\n但是裡面其中有一位而且是20萬交保我今天要特別講的除非他並不是共諜案但是如果真的已經被涉及到共諜案然後20萬元就交保然後又可以准許他可以快速的關閉他所有的這些相關的平台我覺得這個是未來整個的辦案\n可能國安局也要跟檢調單位去做一些溝通的你們同不同意\n理解委員提到這樣的一個樣態要注意的地方那這我們再來加強注意但我必須跟委員說明的是共諜案是媒體的用語那每個案情案況可能都不太一樣那這可能會影響到剛剛委員所質疑的最後請教一下今天早上徐巧欣委員有特別提到但是你覺得說巧欣委員的資訊是\n他那個資訊不是正確的所以我是很善意的提醒所以你是否認嗎就是國安局裡面的我跟委員說明一下就是當時的質詢的內容的\n是不是正確的內容那我很怕他做這樣的指控會有一些不必要的問題我指的是法律問題所以我是適度的在提醒我的內容是不太正確的如果國安局裡面也出現有人涉嫌供點案我覺得是非同小可所以恐怕也許您的用字要更為精準一些然後我老實講我會認為該承認就要承認該澄清就要澄清\n因為我覺得現在真的已經營造一個匪諜就在你身邊尤其我們自己在立法院裡面我們自己也非常小心啊對不對應該的所以這一部分我覺得他能夠應該該澄清該承認我覺得不要讓民眾有任何的覺得這個訊息是有模糊的空間好不好好 謝謝謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.505 --> 00:22.954\n好謝謝主席我請我們蔡局長好辛苦了局長請教一下其實現在我們重中之重就是針對美國的關稅戰特別是雖然這是全球的問題但是因為終究對台灣來講我們是一個外銷\n\n00:26.295 --> 00:41.971\n為主要的導向的一個國家而且呢說實在我們真的也經不起這樣的一個這麼高的關稅所以我今天有注意到早上這個我們局長也有特別提到就說我們現在確實已經會派\n\n00:44.794 --> 01:03.832\n這個特使團然後去跟美方做交涉那但是我們知道按照我們過去的經驗其實經濟部在今年初就有派過一個代表團但是呢非常可惜我想局長也很清楚其實我們並沒有見到什麼主要的keyman所以呢我想請問一下\n\n01:06.590 --> 01:31.073\n我們這一次的對美的交涉例如說我們過去比如說在APEC像張忠謀先生歷次都擔任我們這個總統的特使去參加國際性的會議所以他跟外國很多的領袖都是好朋友更不要說台積電在川普總統裡面也認為是一個信譽及卓著非常良好的公司\n\n01:31.733 --> 01:54.347\n所以今天我們有提到就是我們的副總召有提到建議是不是能夠敦請張忠謀先生在這一次台灣這樣的一個危機中可不可以來擔任我們的一個特使去跟對美交涉所以我不曉得局長你對這樣的看法你覺得如何\n\n01:55.024 --> 02:07.191\n尊重委員的一些意見喔那也可以理解委員背後的問題意識當然是擔心說台灣在這一波的關稅的衝擊之下對我們的產業會產生一些影響那所以委員的這些建議我們尊重\n\n02:07.979 --> 02:26.184\n因為我們現在知道有好幾十個國家將近百個國家都在排隊跟美國想要交涉但是我想我們如果今天是派出張忠謀先生至少我想我們可以應該可以排的順序應該比較前面一點所以局長你同不同意我的\n\n02:26.804 --> 02:48.999\n尊重委員的分析好那局長另外一個很重要的事情你們的報告也說有關於這個共諜案那麼最近大家高度的關心那麼過去五年起訴的159人裡面有六成都是現金人或者是退役的軍人但是最近我們出現了就是發現\n\n02:50.200 --> 03:13.169\n在不管是在立法院裡面立法院委員的助理或者是總統府的資議或者是議員的助理或者是像民進黨民主學院裡面的他們的主任前副主任相繼的發生就是涉入共諜案這個當然也引起社會很大的震撼那麼\n\n03:15.410 --> 03:35.218\n局長我想請問一下就你所了解現在有關於相關的共諜案涉嫌他滲入在執政黨或者是在立法院執政黨的立委或者議員或者是相關機構裡面這樣的案情到底嚴不嚴重\n\n03:36.981 --> 03:54.590\n跟委員說明一下因為早上我也跟媒體朋友在報告共諜案它因為涉及到背叛國家傷害國家利益所以就我們國安情報機關來講只要有相關的線索的話我們一定會全力的來查查全力的來偵辦那也不會分任何的黨派也不管它是什麼樣的職務\n\n03:55.230 --> 04:24.161\n所以只要有這樣的個案的話我們就依照相關的事證來收集情訊那有必要就來提供給檢調單位來做偵辦局長這個事件為什麼也引起高度的關注譬如說你當過前立法院院長的助理因為你所接觸的資料當然又不一樣那個等級證都不一樣還有這個當然我覺得這不是黨派之爭而是作為執政黨的民意代表的助理\n\n04:24.821 --> 04:51.918\n也陸陸續續的涉入所以我才想請問局長這個事件現在我們所了解的大概有四個人當然我也注意到民進黨相繼的開除了他們的黨籍那這個案件有沒有擴大的可能或跡象就個案來講希望能夠得到委員的理解因為個案我比較不適合去談它的案情或案況因為檢方已經在立案正版\n\n04:52.642 --> 05:16.480\n那我請問局長這裡面其中有一位叫做盛楚英他竟然是20萬元交保就像您所說的涉入共諜案他可能已經涉及交付國家的機密或者一些機密文件20萬可以交保這是辦共諜案的\n\n05:17.060 --> 05:37.803\n一個標準嗎而且他立刻去關閉他所有的社交平台那這個其實大家外界就會認為他立刻是不是有這種滅政的可能所以如果辦共諜案20萬交保這個水準從國安局的角度來看會不會增加到時候辦案的一個困難度\n\n05:38.664 --> 06:03.904\n我們比較不適合去評論審理機關就是法院他對於要不要交保以及交保金額額度的一個裁判那我們尊重法院的一個相關的裁決沒有局長我知道你不願意對個案去做說明但是我要講的就是這個案子到目前為止因為他牽涉了他不是只有一位他就牽涉了好幾位那我們不曉得是不是一個集體辦案的行為\n\n06:04.705 --> 06:27.070\n但是裡面其中有一位而且是20萬交保我今天要特別講的除非他並不是共諜案但是如果真的已經被涉及到共諜案然後20萬元就交保然後又可以准許他可以快速的關閉他所有的這些相關的平台我覺得這個是未來整個的辦案\n\n06:28.686 --> 06:35.168\n可能國安局也要跟檢調單位去做一些溝通的你們同不同意\n\n06:37.774 --> 06:59.852\n理解委員提到這樣的一個樣態要注意的地方那這我們再來加強注意但我必須跟委員說明的是共諜案是媒體的用語那每個案情案況可能都不太一樣那這可能會影響到剛剛委員所質疑的最後請教一下今天早上徐巧欣委員有特別提到但是你覺得說巧欣委員的資訊是\n\n07:01.033 --> 07:11.297\n他那個資訊不是正確的所以我是很善意的提醒所以你是否認嗎就是國安局裡面的我跟委員說明一下就是當時的質詢的內容的\n\n07:14.252 --> 07:40.265\n是不是正確的內容那我很怕他做這樣的指控會有一些不必要的問題我指的是法律問題所以我是適度的在提醒我的內容是不太正確的如果國安局裡面也出現有人涉嫌供點案我覺得是非同小可所以恐怕也許您的用字要更為精準一些然後我老實講我會認為該承認就要承認該澄清就要澄清\n\n07:40.965 --> 07:59.996\n因為我覺得現在真的已經營造一個匪諜就在你身邊尤其我們自己在立法院裡面我們自己也非常小心啊對不對應該的所以這一部分我覺得他能夠應該該澄清該承認我覺得不要讓民眾有任何的覺得這個訊息是有模糊的空間好不好好謝謝謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.505,"end":22.954,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我請我們蔡局長好 辛苦了 局長請教一下其實現在我們重中之重就是針對美國的關稅戰特別是雖然這是全球的問題但是因為終究對台灣來講我們是一個外銷"},{"start":26.295,"end":41.971,"text":"為主要的導向的一個國家而且呢說實在我們真的也經不起這樣的一個這麼高的關稅所以我今天有注意到早上這個我們局長也有特別提到就說我們現在確實已經會派"},{"start":44.794,"end":63.832,"text":"這個特使團然後去跟美方做交涉那但是我們知道按照我們過去的經驗其實經濟部在今年初就有派過一個代表團但是呢非常可惜我想局長也很清楚其實我們並沒有見到什麼主要的key man所以呢我想請問一下"},{"start":66.59,"end":91.073,"text":"我們這一次的對美的交涉例如說我們過去比如說在APEC像張忠謀先生歷次都擔任我們這個總統的特使去參加國際性的會議所以他跟外國很多的領袖都是好朋友更不要說台積電在川普總統裡面也認為是一個信譽及卓著非常良好的公司"},{"start":91.733,"end":114.347,"text":"所以今天我們有提到就是我們的副總召有提到建議是不是能夠敦請張忠謀先生在這一次台灣這樣的一個危機中可不可以來擔任我們的一個特使去跟對美交涉所以我不曉得局長你對這樣的看法你覺得如何"},{"start":115.024,"end":127.191,"text":"尊重委員的一些意見喔那也可以理解委員背後的問題意識當然是擔心說台灣在這一波的關稅的衝擊之下對我們的產業會產生一些影響那所以委員的這些建議我們尊重"},{"start":127.979,"end":146.184,"text":"因為我們現在知道有好幾十個國家將近百個國家都在排隊跟美國想要交涉但是我想我們如果今天是派出張忠謀先生至少我想我們可以應該可以排的順序應該比較前面一點所以局長你同不同意我的"},{"start":146.804,"end":168.999,"text":"尊重委員的分析好那局長另外一個很重要的事情你們的報告也說有關於這個共諜案那麼最近大家高度的關心那麼過去五年起訴的159人裡面有六成都是現金人或者是退役的軍人但是最近我們出現了就是發現"},{"start":170.2,"end":193.169,"text":"在不管是在立法院裡面立法院委員的助理或者是總統府的資議或者是議員的助理或者是像民進黨民主學院裡面的他們的主任前副主任相繼的發生就是涉入共諜案這個當然也引起社會很大的震撼那麼"},{"start":195.41,"end":215.218,"text":"局長我想請問一下就你所了解現在有關於相關的共諜案涉嫌他滲入在執政黨或者是在立法院執政黨的立委或者議員或者是相關機構裡面這樣的案情到底嚴不嚴重"},{"start":216.981,"end":234.59,"text":"跟委員說明一下因為早上我也跟媒體朋友在報告共諜案它因為涉及到背叛國家傷害國家利益所以就我們國安情報機關來講只要有相關的線索的話我們一定會全力的來查查全力的來偵辦那也不會分任何的黨派也不管它是什麼樣的職務"},{"start":235.23,"end":264.161,"text":"所以只要有這樣的個案的話我們就依照相關的事證來收集情訊那有必要就來提供給檢調單位來做偵辦局長這個事件為什麼也引起高度的關注譬如說你當過前立法院院長的助理因為你所接觸的資料當然又不一樣那個等級證都不一樣還有這個當然我覺得這不是黨派之爭而是作為執政黨的民意代表的助理"},{"start":264.821,"end":291.918,"text":"也陸陸續續的涉入所以我才想請問局長這個事件現在我們所了解的大概有四個人當然我也注意到民進黨相繼的開除了他們的黨籍那這個案件有沒有擴大的可能或跡象就個案來講希望能夠得到委員的理解因為個案我比較不適合去談它的案情或案況因為檢方已經在立案正版"},{"start":292.642,"end":316.48,"text":"那我請問局長 這裡面其中有一位 叫做盛楚英他竟然是20萬元交保 就像您所說的 涉入共諜案他可能已經涉及交付國家的機密 或者一些機密文件20萬可以交保 這是辦共諜案的"},{"start":317.06,"end":337.803,"text":"一個標準嗎而且他立刻去關閉他所有的社交平台那這個其實大家外界就會認為他立刻是不是有這種滅政的可能所以如果辦共諜案20萬交保這個水準從國安局的角度來看會不會增加到時候辦案的一個困難度"},{"start":338.664,"end":363.904,"text":"我們比較不適合去評論審理機關就是法院他對於要不要交保以及交保金額額度的一個裁判那我們尊重法院的一個相關的裁決沒有局長我知道你不願意對個案去做說明但是我要講的就是這個案子到目前為止因為他牽涉了他不是只有一位他就牽涉了好幾位那我們不曉得是不是一個集體辦案的行為"},{"start":364.705,"end":387.07,"text":"但是裡面其中有一位而且是20萬交保我今天要特別講的除非他並不是共諜案但是如果真的已經被涉及到共諜案然後20萬元就交保然後又可以准許他可以快速的關閉他所有的這些相關的平台我覺得這個是未來整個的辦案"},{"start":388.686,"end":395.168,"text":"可能國安局也要跟檢調單位去做一些溝通的你們同不同意"},{"start":397.774,"end":419.852,"text":"理解委員提到這樣的一個樣態要注意的地方那這我們再來加強注意但我必須跟委員說明的是共諜案是媒體的用語那每個案情案況可能都不太一樣那這可能會影響到剛剛委員所質疑的最後請教一下今天早上徐巧欣委員有特別提到但是你覺得說巧欣委員的資訊是"},{"start":421.033,"end":431.297,"text":"他那個資訊不是正確的所以我是很善意的提醒所以你是否認嗎就是國安局裡面的我跟委員說明一下就是當時的質詢的內容的"},{"start":434.252,"end":460.265,"text":"是不是正確的內容那我很怕他做這樣的指控會有一些不必要的問題我指的是法律問題所以我是適度的在提醒我的內容是不太正確的如果國安局裡面也出現有人涉嫌供點案我覺得是非同小可所以恐怕也許您的用字要更為精準一些然後我老實講我會認為該承認就要承認該澄清就要澄清"},{"start":460.965,"end":479.996,"text":"因為我覺得現在真的已經營造一個匪諜就在你身邊尤其我們自己在立法院裡面我們自己也非常小心啊對不對應該的所以這一部分我覺得他能夠應該該澄清該承認我覺得不要讓民眾有任何的覺得這個訊息是有模糊的空間好不好好 謝謝謝謝委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":793,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（11時47分）好，謝謝主席。我請我們蔡局長。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝王委員。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，局長好，辛苦了。局長請教一下，其實現在我們重中之重就是針對美國的關稅戰，雖然這是全球的問題，但是因為終究對臺灣來講，我們是一個外銷為主要導向的國家，而且說實在我們真的也禁不起這麼高的關稅，所以我今天有注意到早上局長也有特別提到，我們現在確實會派特使團去跟美方做交涉。但是我們知道，按照我們過去的經驗，其實經濟部在今年初就有派過一個代表團，但是非常可惜，我想局長也很清楚，其實我們並沒有見到什麼主要的keyman。","所以，我想請問一下局長，我們這一次對美的交涉，例如說我們過去在APEC，張忠謀先生歷次都擔任我們總統的特使，去參加國際性的會議，所以他跟外國很多的領袖都是好朋友，更不要說川普總統也認為台積電是一個信譽卓著，非常良好的公司。所以今天我們的傅總召有提到建議，是不是能夠敦請張忠謀先生在這一次臺灣這樣的一個危機中，來擔任我們的特使，去對美交涉。我不曉得局長你對這樣的看法，你覺得如何？"],["蔡局長明彥：我尊重委員的一些意見，也可以理解委員背後的問題意識當然是擔心臺灣在這一波的關稅的衝擊之下，對我們的產業會產生一些影響，所以委員的這些建議我們尊重。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，因為我們現在知道有好幾十個國家，將近百個國家，都在排隊想要跟美國做交涉，但是我想我們如果今天是派出張忠謀先生，至少排得順序應該比較前面一點，所以局長你同不同意我的看法？"],["蔡局長明彥：尊重委員的分析。"],["王委員鴻薇：OK，好。局長，另外一個很重要的事情，你們的報告也說有關於共諜案，最近大家高度關心，過去5年起訴的159人裡面有六成都是現役軍人或是退役軍人，但是最近發現不管在立法院裡面立法委員的助理，或者是總統府的諮議、議員的助理、民進黨民主學院裡的前副主任相繼涉入共諜案，引起社會很大的震撼，局長，我想請問就你了解現在共諜案涉嫌滲入在執政黨，或者在立法院執政黨的立委、議員，或者相關機構裡面，這樣的案情到底嚴不嚴重？"],["蔡局長明彥：跟委員說明，早上我跟媒體朋友報告，共諜案因為涉及到背叛國家、傷害國家利益，所以就國安情報機關來講，只要有相關線索的話，我們一定會全力查察、偵辦，也不會分任何黨派，也不管他是什麼樣的職務。"],["王委員鴻薇：當然。"],["蔡局長明彥：所以只要有這樣的個案，我們就依照相關事證來蒐集情訊，有必要就提供給檢調單位來偵辦。"],["王委員鴻薇：局長，這個事件為什麼引起高度關注？譬如說你當過前立法院院長的助理，因為你所接觸的資料不一樣、等級也都不一樣。這絕對不是黨派之爭，而是執政黨民意代表的助理也陸陸續續涉入，所以我才想請問局長，這個事件我們所了解的大概有4個人，我也有注意到民進黨相繼開除他們的黨籍，這個案件有沒有擴大的可能或跡象？"],["蔡局長明彥：就個案來說希望能夠得到委員的理解，因為個案我比較不適合去談他的案情或案況，因為檢方已經立案偵辦。"],["王委員鴻薇：請問局長，這裡面其中有一位叫盛礎纓，他竟然20萬元交保，就像您所說的涉入共諜案，可能已經涉及交付國家機密或者機密文件，20萬可以交保，這是辦共諜案的標準嗎？而且他立刻關閉所有的社交平台，外界就會認為他是不是有滅證的可能，如果辦共諜案20萬交保，從國安局的角度來看，會不會增加到時候辦案的困難度？"],["蔡局長明彥：我們比較不適合去評論審理機關，就是法院對於要不要交保以及交保金額額度的裁判，我們尊重法院的裁決。"],["王委員鴻薇：我知道你不願意對個案去做說明，但是我要講這個案子到目前為止，因為不是只有1位，牽涉好幾位，我們不曉得是不是集體犯案的行為，但是裡面其中有1位如果真的已經涉及到共諜案，然後20萬元就交保，又准許他可以快速關閉他所有社交平台，我覺得這個是未來辦案，國安局要跟檢調單位去溝通的，你同不同意？"],["蔡局長明彥：大概理解委員提到這樣的樣態、要注意的地方，我們再來加強注意，但我必須跟委員說明共諜案是媒體的用語，每個案情、案況可能都不太一樣，這可能會影響到剛剛委員所質疑的那幾項……"],["王委員鴻薇：好，對不起。我最後請教，今天早上徐巧芯委員有特別提到，但是你覺得說巧芯委員的資訊……"],["蔡局長明彥：他的資訊不是正確的，所以我是很善意提醒……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你是否認嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：不是，他那個……"],["王委員鴻薇：國安局裡面的……"],["蔡局長明彥：我跟委員說明一下，當時質詢內容不是正確的，我很怕他做這樣的指控會有一些不必要的問題，我指的是法律問題，所以我是適度地在提醒……"],["王委員鴻薇：我要講就是說……"],["蔡局長明彥：那個內容是不太正確的。"],["王委員鴻薇：如果國安局裡面也出現有人涉嫌共諜案，我覺得是非同小可，所以恐怕也許您的用字要更為精準一些。我認為該承認就要承認、該澄清就要澄清，因為我覺得現在已經營造「匪諜就在你身邊」，尤其我們自己在立法院裡面，我們自己也非常小心。"],["蔡局長明彥：對，應該的。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以這一部分能夠該澄清、該承認，不要讓民眾覺得這個訊息有任何模糊的空間，好不好？"],["蔡局長明彥：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝王鴻薇委員的質詢。","蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員不在。","葉元之委員、葉元之委員、葉元之委員不在。","鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","接下來請林憶君委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":60,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-6","speakers":["黃仁","羅美玲","徐巧芯","陳俊宇","陳冠廷","馬文君","王定宇","林楚茵","楊瓊瓔","沈伯洋","李坤城","王鴻薇","林憶君"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-04-09"],"gazette_id":"1143601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143601_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥率相關情報機關首長提出「國家情報工作暨國家安全局業務報告」，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143601_00001"}}}