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406.725, \"text\": \"你不只製造了社會的對立,你刨掉了台灣很重要的根民主、法治、人權跟人道,都台灣很重要的你把這根刨掉了,然後製造了社會的對立讓很多人惶惶不安,連老蔣你們也刨掉你們民進黨自己的根啦你去看看臉書上面,還有很多來陳情的你們連民進黨的立委現在,辦公室電話都被打爆啦\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 382.915, \"end\": 383.035, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 383.035, \"end\": 383.135, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 383.135, \"end\": 383.395, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"製\"}, {\"word\": \"造\", \"start\": 383.395, \"end\": 383.535, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 383.535, \"end\": 383.655, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"社\", \"start\": 383.655, \"end\": 383.895, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 383.895, \"end\": 384.176, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 384.176, \"end\": 384.356, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 384.356, \"end\": 384.736, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"刨\"}, {\"word\": \"掉\", \"start\": 384.736, \"end\": 384.836, \"score\": 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00:00:46,053\n現在梁文傑梁副主委還有這個移民署的陳副署長好副署長委員好文傑我們兩個認識三十幾年了年輕的時候我們心都是柔軟的可是心不要變硬更不要變成是壞的\n\n2\n00:00:48,359 --> 00:01:04,170\n特別人在公門要好修行政府存在的目的就是服務人民啊不是製造問題啊你再從今天一早這麼多人在問你的你們把它定位成是陸配我看到他們的陳情有些很多都是他們小孩來陳情的他們貼的文章\n\n3\n00:01:17,506 --> 00:01:41,766\n如果是我們很年輕的時候文姐你跟我都很年輕我覺得你應該是會掉眼淚的我很希望你那個初心是還在的我看的是難過的是明明本來沒有事情啊為什麼搞出來這麼大的一個讓那麼多的家庭不安我昨天在緊急找了副署長到我辦公室對不對你們發出去的這個一萬兩千封欸\n\n4\n00:01:49,005 --> 00:02:13,804\n你剛在講檢舉你有檢舉你就辦可是檢舉要辦你也要舉證啊你怎麼一下撒一萬兩千多封出去一萬兩千個家庭而且你知道你現在對象是誰嗎這些人已經來台灣三十幾年四十幾年五十幾年他們不只是台灣之子的老婆台灣人的老婆台灣之子的母親他們就是個台灣人啊\n\n5\n00:02:15,285 --> 00:02:24,152\n你做台灣人做20多年做30多年做40多年很多年紀都很長了6710歲了你讓人家叫他去拿21年前30幾年前的東西出來你不強人所難嗎我剛剛在講政府要做什麼事情政府要服務人民嘛你海基會你的陸委會的功能在哪裡你的移民署功能在哪裡你一直叫他去補證件\n\n6\n00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:50,862\n很多政見政府應該幫他找啊是不是我先提五個最具體的我們先來看一下五大具體的要求我先從第二個開始講你現在叫我們這個陸配你在民國93年3月1號修了兩岸人民關係條例之後你說本來要他註銷他的戶籍\n\n7\n00:03:10,216 --> 00:03:32,031\n你本來六個月內要完成啊你本身沒有好好去追對不對這是不是政府本來就是失職怠惰責任在政府嘛政府要去幫忙解決問題啊所以我第一項我基本的要求民國93年3月1號以前他已經定居了對啊文哲你也說啊他如果已經取得身份證從寬嘛對不對我明確要求\n\n8\n00:03:33,106 --> 00:04:02,452\n在這93年3月1號之前已經來台定居了就排除了也就是你這次花了一萬兩千多份不要再追了這是第一項你這樣是不是就解決問題了我剛剛講了那麼多的台灣支持的父母的母親台灣人的老婆那麼多的台灣人就不會有這個困擾了嘛把這個時間點定出來第一項境外責事啊你這叫他補正啊海際會為什麼要存在\n\n9\n00:04:04,326 --> 00:04:18,960\n為什麼要存在海基會海基會為什麼沒有被裁掉為什麼要設立他不就是要幫我們人民服務嗎他要做認證的工作啊是不是所以現在有碰到問題了因為打電話或者到海基會去申請就好不是去找那個台六要回一趟任何一個人要跑一趟大陸多遠啊不用工作嗎往返要多久去還要再辦\n\n10\n00:04:30,233 --> 00:04:41,581\n海基會存在的目的是什麼所以讓我們的陸配我們的人民直接到海基會去海基會辦理那應該有的功能海基會跟大陸海協會是對口的嘛去查啊海基會去查到底他的戶籍還在不在啊對不對啊如果沒這問題為什麼跑那麼一趟海基會存在才有才有才有它的價值嘛要不然拆掉啊\n\n11\n00:04:57,458 --> 00:05:24,881\n另外接下來就是移民署給你入委會的功能第三點你的目的就是要他放棄大陸這個戶籍嘛對不對你做一個公版的申請書啊我就是要證明嘛對不對然後你給他一個公版的這個申請書他簽名簽完以後到這個法院去認證不就完成程序了嗎\n\n12\n00:05:26,823 --> 00:05:52,308\n所以從政府的角色從海基會一直到領土委會到移民署這問題不就解決了嗎為什麼搞這麼複雜呢為什麼要擾民呢甚至還牽扯到身份的這個檢驗還有歧視的問題只要你回到初心以前的梁文傑少年的梁文傑心是軟的不是硬的不是黑的政府該有的功能要扮演做到前面這幾項問題是不是都解決了\n\n13\n00:05:55,562 --> 00:06:21,175\n所以我要再問一個你現在很嚴重就是叫人家三個月內要完成這個事情你們自己人家打電話去問說什麼程序要多久你們要回答說至少大概兩個月給你們多一個月時間太緊迫了啦至少把這個時間延長多一兩年另外我一個要求除了做剛剛的現在很多人民都碰到問題了我特別跟你講這邊你們刨掉的\n\n14\n00:06:22,915 --> 00:06:46,725\n你不只製造了社會的對立,你刨掉了台灣很重要的根民主、法治、人權跟人道,都台灣很重要的你把這根刨掉了,然後製造了社會的對立讓很多人惶惶不安,連老蔣你們也刨掉你們民進黨自己的根啦你去看看臉書上面,還有很多來陳情的你們連民進黨的立委現在,辦公室電話都被打爆啦\n\n15\n00:06:48,493 --> 00:07:11,038\n裡面有些留言說我長期都是民進黨的支持者啊你現在有媽媽回去找一個三十幾年前四十幾年前的東西找得到嗎連民進黨那些青鳥那些支持者都反彈了你們在刨自己的根啊這些人本來就是在台灣人啊人家住這麼久啊為什麼要圍爛人家呢最重要的政府的角色扮演完以後你要的\n\n16\n00:07:12,148 --> 00:07:28,040\n就可以完成這個法律的程序嘛對不對所以我明確要求你在最近一個月內北中南去辦公開說明會請聽到底碰到什麼問題幫他們解決問題文傑跟移民署副市長我們來做這五件事情好不好委員可以讓我們有時間回答嗎請說\n\n17\n00:07:30,859 --> 00:07:57,279\n對我們來講其實不管是93年3月1號以前還是之後其實我們都是不准有雙重身份的那今天之所以會有3月1號這個事情是因為當初的修法我們現在是follow法律如果說立法院覺得說這個93年3月1號以前應該排除那老實講這個不是我們行政機關可以答應的\n\n18\n00:07:59,881 --> 00:08:17,863\n你當初在九十一年三月一號修兩岸人民關係條例的時候你當初很多人就已經拿到身分證了耶那你要的話你當初你就一直追他說你六個月內沒有完成放棄對不對你六個月你自己沒做所以我說你是怠惰又失職啊你這個轉嫁變成要人民來負擔這個事情咧\n\n19\n00:08:19,363 --> 00:08:41,417\n法律追訴期間沒有那麼長啦都是知道當初我也不是陸委會你也不是立委嘛你現在來追是當初的陸委會陸委會失職啊那你怎麼反而現在怪到人民身上要人民來負這個責任不過委員提出的一個方案其中第三點我一再強調就是說如果他是當事人真的沒有辦法\n\n20\n00:08:42,404 --> 00:09:03,921\n拿到文件的話我們會有別的措施我們絕對不會說你真的沒有辦法拿到文件然後我真的把你身份取消我們不會這樣做但是很多人我還是要再強調一遍很多人都說他自己沒辦法拿到但是實際上最後都是可以的\n\n21\n00:09:06,038 --> 00:09:16,003\n我只能夠這樣講所以我說你政府自己要先辦年好嘛你就讓他去海基會海基會去幫他查啊你入會的功能你移民署的功能你把那個放棄的那個\n\n22\n00:09:17,199 --> 00:09:45,151\n公版的申請書給他就好啊你給我這個問題啊是不是要達到法律上要的二跟三趕快做可以嗎關於如果他真的沒有辦法那用切結的方式這是一個可以考慮的方向用切結的方式如果真的沒有辦法拿到文傑不要用個案處理啦你給一個公版嘛你所謂切結就是說他這裡是找不到對不對他確實很困難嘛由陸委會跟移民署提供一個公版切結說我確實已經放棄了找不到\n\n23\n00:09:45,891 --> 00:10:11,733\n那你經過這個法院的這個認證嘛對不對那就完成這個程序啦OK齁所以陸委會跟移民組委做這樣的事情齁在這裡跟委員報告那個副組長他是你的指導單位嘛對不對是不是你除非是要推翻他的要不然你不用再說了趕快做這件事好不好那個等一下等一下等一下讓副組委先講那個你什麼時候可以把這個公版拿出來\n\n24\n00:10:13,899 --> 00:10:36,212\n這個竊竊的這個官板好不好因為禮拜可以讓大家自由上去自己是可以下載嘛那個委員我再說明一下對於那些真的沒有辦法回去拿到文件的人用竊竊的方式是可以考慮的方式但是首先我們要先確定他到底是不是\n\n25\n00:10:37,372 --> 00:11:03,952\n真的沒有辦法拿到否則我們對那些真的有回去拿這些文件然後回來繳交的這些陸配也不公平你叫人家跑一趟就已經是擾民了也不公平你存在價值就是服務民眾你本來海基會可以做的因為現在14萬定居的13萬人都交了嘛那比較近期了嘛對不對比較碰到問題大部分都是在93年3月1號以前的啦你那個一萬兩千份最主要就是這個嘛對不對\n\n26\n00:11:05,031 --> 00:11:33,635\n是不是跟全民講清楚為什麼今天那麼多人這麼氣憤是因為你現在發出的一萬兩千份都是93年3月1號以前21年生的他放在這邊就住了40年50年這個都是連長的我看現在上面抗議的人都是二代啦都是年輕人啦媽媽在這裡住這麼久啊你叫我現在六七十歲啊七八十歲啊你要想要叫我拿三四十年前的東西這不是擾民不是失職是什麼\n\n27\n00:11:34,795 --> 00:12:00,702\n我覺得對我們來說身體健康跟年紀這些東西我們都會考量最關鍵的我們要解決問題嘛你現在那個你剛說要有一個切結是可以的嘛對不對那你一個禮拜內把這個切結的光板寫出來放到網路上讓大家可以下載或者有需要的人就到移民署去拿嘛我看移民署現在大概每天都是一缸子人去啊對不對\n\n28\n00:12:02,134 --> 00:12:09,997\n電話被打爆了現在人忙到連電話都打不進去了對不對那你要想辦法解決問題啊發委員我們已經設有專線還有專郵也就是讓民眾可以傳輸的一個便利\n\n29\n00:12:18,342 --> 00:12:34,327\n我們本署的網站也會公告專用電子的信箱諮詢的專線還有對外的Q&A然後我們會製作懶人包讓民眾知道要怎麼來處理那最重要的是我們要請聽這些\n\n30\n00:12:36,604 --> 00:13:02,086\n接獲通知的民眾如果他不能回去大陸他的原因他的狀態是怎麼樣我們收整把他分類然後再跟陸委會來做言商現在我接到的這個投訴還有現在在網路跟媒體上看到的就是很多人根本就是去電話打不接的打進去了你們就叫他第一句話嘛去回大陸\n\n31\n00:13:04,670 --> 00:13:31,668\n你去把文件找到嘛來公證嘛你地雷太沒用地雷你變成轉機啊你只是個總機而已啊政府存在的目的你要幫人民解決問題要找到對的方法嘛是不是剛剛我們有新的進展了那個陸委會的副主委文姐我剛剛講的切結這個事情這是一個地雷盡快給一個公版的大家可以有一個依循這是地雷地雷好好去檢討一下跟海基會討論一下\n\n32\n00:13:33,541 --> 00:13:58,840\n海基會如果要存在你本來就要幫人民做這個認證啊等一等我可以去你那邊查說到底以前我有沒有這個文件嘛對不對有沒有撤下這個文件嘛它本來就要保存啊啊沒有的話它存在功能它就是跟海...對岸它有對接啊它可以幫人民查不是嗎如果只要二跟三這個解決了根本就連大陸就不用跑問題就解決了啊委員跟你報告能查的或是海基會有存檔的\n\n33\n00:13:59,941 --> 00:14:21,327\n都有查了所以現在在通知的就是沒有就是沒有存檔也沒有所以你看連海紀委都沒有標籤這年代這麼久很難查你強人所難嘛所以幫忙解決問題啦是好不好另外剛才你一個電話我怎麼說過你說你說如果沒有如期完成的你不會把人驅逐出去趕出去喔對不對清楚跟民眾講一下\n\n34\n00:14:24,059 --> 00:14:39,185\n不會這個要保證喔要保證喔不要發生這樣的悲劇如果真的沒有辦法拿到這些文件政府絕對不會做出這種驅逐的舉動這個和前一陣子那三位中配的案子不一樣\n\n35\n00:14:40,390 --> 00:15:00,058\n這就是我們台灣人做這麼久了嘛對不對要保護自己的台灣人現在特別你看這裡高關稅那個海嘯這麼嚴重怎麼每天都結社會啊草野都是一新的啦各行各業別在裡面又製造一些衝突跟這些擾民的事情這裡面老實講還有歧視跟身份檢查問題都真的很不好啦我們今天都是解決問題喔每個東西都很具體喔好不好\n\n36\n00:15:05,405 --> 00:15:27,498\n好好檢討一下也要檢討一下如果在93年3月1號以前可以排除我會努力當然你如果要修法立法委內我們可以來提案可是我覺得你如果心還是軟的行政部門本身也應該做我們滿期待的啊陸委會行政部門自己提案啊留下一個心還是軟的有幫人民在服務的政務官當官都是一時的啦\n\n37\n00:15:28,499 --> 00:15:33,462\n留下來不要是汙名要是美名好不好還有機會我們趕快幫我們的陸培跟我們台灣人謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n20846\t46053\t現在梁文傑 梁副主委還有這個移民署的陳副署長好 副署長委員好文傑 我們兩個認識三十幾年了年輕的時候 我們心都是柔軟的可是心不要變硬 更不要變成是壞的\n48359\t64170\t特別人在公門要好修行政府存在的目的就是服務人民啊不是製造問題啊你再從今天一早這麼多人在問你的你們把它定位成是陸配我看到他們的陳情有些很多都是他們小孩來陳情的他們貼的文章\n77506\t101766\t如果是我們很年輕的時候文姐你跟我都很年輕我覺得你應該是會掉眼淚的我很希望你那個初心是還在的我看的是難過的是明明本來沒有事情啊為什麼搞出來這麼大的一個讓那麼多的家庭不安我昨天在緊急找了副署長到我辦公室對不對你們發出去的這個一萬兩千封欸\n109005\t133804\t你剛在講檢舉你有檢舉你就辦可是檢舉要辦你也要舉證啊你怎麼一下撒一萬兩千多封出去一萬兩千個家庭而且你知道你現在對象是誰嗎這些人已經來台灣三十幾年 四十幾年 五十幾年他們不只是台灣之子的老婆台灣人的老婆 台灣之子的母親他們就是個台灣人啊\n135285\t144152\t你做台灣人做20多年 做30多年 做40多年很多年紀都很長了 6 7 10歲了你讓人家叫他去拿21年前 30幾年前的東西出來你不強人所難嗎我剛剛在講政府要做什麼事情 政府要服務人民嘛你海基會 你的陸委會的功能在哪裡你的移民署功能在哪裡你一直叫他去補證件\n163800\t170862\t很多政見政府應該幫他找啊是不是我先提五個最具體的我們先來看一下五大具體的要求我先從第二個開始講你現在叫我們這個陸配你在民國93年3月1號修了兩岸人民關係條例之後你說本來要他註銷他的戶籍\n190216\t212031\t你本來六個月內要完成啊你本身沒有好好去追對不對這是不是政府本來就是失職 怠惰責任在政府嘛政府要去幫忙解決問題啊所以我第一項我基本的要求民國93年3月1號以前他已經定居了對啊 文哲你也說啊他如果已經取得身份證 從寬嘛對不對我明確要求\n213106\t242452\t在這93年3月1號之前已經來台定居了就排除了也就是你這次花了一萬兩千多份不要再追了這是第一項你這樣是不是就解決問題了我剛剛講了那麼多的台灣支持的父母的母親台灣人的老婆那麼多的台灣人就不會有這個困擾了嘛把這個時間點定出來第一項 境外責事啊你這叫他補正啊 海際會為什麼要存在\n244326\t258960\t為什麼要存在海基會海基會為什麼沒有被裁掉 為什麼要設立他不就是要幫我們人民服務嗎他要做認證的工作啊 是不是所以現在有碰到問題了 因為打電話或者到海基會去申請就好不是去找那個台六要回一趟 任何一個人要跑一趟大陸多遠啊不用工作嗎往返要多久 去還要再辦\n270233\t281581\t海基會存在的目的是什麼所以讓我們的陸配 我們的人民直接到海基會去海基會辦理那應該有的功能海基會跟大陸 海協會是對口的嘛去查啊海基會去查 到底他的戶籍還在不在啊對不對啊如果沒這問題 為什麼跑那麼一趟海基會存在才有才有才有它的價值嘛要不然拆掉啊\n297458\t324881\t另外接下來就是移民署給你入委會的功能 第三點你的目的就是要他放棄大陸這個戶籍嘛 對不對你做一個公版的申請書啊我就是要證明嘛 對不對然後你給他一個公版的這個申請書他簽名 簽完以後到這個法院去認證不就完成程序了嗎\n326823\t352308\t所以從政府的角色從海基會一直到領土委會到移民署這問題不就解決了嗎為什麼搞這麼複雜呢為什麼要擾民呢甚至還牽扯到身份的這個檢驗還有歧視的問題只要你回到初心以前的梁文傑 少年的梁文傑心是軟的 不是硬的 不是黑的政府該有的功能要扮演做到前面這幾項問題是不是都解決了\n355562\t381175\t所以我要再問一個你現在很嚴重就是叫人家三個月內要完成這個事情你們自己人家打電話去問說什麼程序要多久你們要回答說至少大概兩個月給你們多一個月時間太緊迫了啦至少把這個時間延長多一兩年另外我一個要求除了做剛剛的現在很多人民都碰到問題了我特別跟你講這邊你們刨掉的\n382915\t406725\t你不只製造了社會的對立,你刨掉了台灣很重要的根民主、法治、人權跟人道,都台灣很重要的你把這根刨掉了,然後製造了社會的對立讓很多人惶惶不安,連老蔣你們也刨掉你們民進黨自己的根啦你去看看臉書上面,還有很多來陳情的你們連民進黨的立委現在,辦公室電話都被打爆啦\n408493\t431038\t裡面有些留言說 我長期都是民進黨的支持者啊你現在有媽媽回去找一個三十幾年前 四十幾年前的東西找得到嗎連民進黨那些青鳥 那些支持者都反彈了你們在刨自己的根啊這些人本來就是在台灣人啊 人家住這麼久啊為什麼要圍爛人家呢最重要的 政府的角色扮演完以後你要的\n432148\t448040\t就可以完成這個法律的程序嘛對不對所以我明確要求你在最近一個月內北中南去辦公開說明會請聽到底碰到什麼問題幫他們解決問題文傑跟移民署副市長我們來做這五件事情好不好委員可以讓我們有時間回答嗎請說\n450859\t477279\t對我們來講其實不管是93年3月1號以前還是之後其實我們都是不准有雙重身份的那今天之所以會有3月1號這個事情是因為當初的修法我們現在是follow法律如果說立法院覺得說這個93年3月1號以前應該排除那老實講這個不是我們行政機關可以答應的\n479881\t497863\t你當初在九十一年三月一號修兩岸人民關係條例的時候你當初很多人就已經拿到身分證了耶那你要的話你當初你就一直追他說你六個月內沒有完成放棄對不對你六個月你自己沒做所以我說你是怠惰又失職啊你這個轉嫁變成要人民來負擔這個事情咧\n499363\t521417\t法律追訴期間沒有那麼長啦 都是知道當初我也不是陸委會 你也不是立委嘛你現在來追 是當初的陸委會 陸委會失職啊那你怎麼反而現在怪到人民身上 要人民來負這個責任不過委員提出的一個方案 其中第三點我一再強調 就是說如果他是當事人 真的沒有辦法\n522404\t543921\t拿到文件的話我們會有別的措施我們絕對不會說你真的沒有辦法拿到文件然後我真的把你身份取消我們不會這樣做但是很多人我還是要再強調一遍很多人都說他自己沒辦法拿到但是實際上最後都是可以的\n546038\t556003\t我只能夠這樣講所以我說你政府自己要先辦年好嘛你就讓他去海基會海基會去幫他查啊你入會的功能你移民署的功能你把那個放棄的那個\n557199\t585151\t公版的申請書給他就好啊你給我這個問題啊是不是要達到法律上要的二跟三趕快做可以嗎關於如果他真的沒有辦法那用切結的方式這是一個可以考慮的方向用切結的方式如果真的沒有辦法拿到文傑不要用個案處理啦你給一個公版嘛你所謂切結就是說他這裡是找不到對不對他確實很困難嘛由陸委會跟移民署提供一個公版切結說我確實已經放棄了找不到\n585891\t611733\t那你經過這個法院的這個認證嘛 對不對那就完成這個程序啦OK齁所以陸委會跟移民組委做這樣的事情齁在這裡跟委員報告那個副組長他是你的指導單位嘛對不對是不是你除非是要推翻他的要不然你不用再說了趕快做這件事好不好那個等一下等一下等一下讓副組委先講那個你什麼時候可以把這個公版拿出來\n613899\t636212\t這個竊竊的這個官板好不好因為禮拜可以讓大家自由上去自己是可以下載嘛那個委員我再說明一下對於那些真的沒有辦法回去拿到文件的人用竊竊的方式是可以考慮的方式但是首先我們要先確定他到底是不是\n637372\t663952\t真的沒有辦法拿到否則我們對那些真的有回去拿這些文件然後回來繳交的這些陸配也不公平你叫人家跑一趟就已經是擾民了也不公平你存在價值就是服務民眾你本來海基會可以做的因為現在14萬定居的13萬人都交了嘛那比較近期了嘛對不對比較碰到問題大部分都是在93年3月1號以前的啦你那個一萬兩千份最主要就是這個嘛對不對\n665031\t693635\t是不是 跟全民講清楚為什麼今天那麼多人這麼氣憤是因為你現在發出的一萬兩千份都是93年3月1號以前21年生的他放在這邊就住了40年50年這個都是連長的我看現在上面抗議的人都是二代啦都是年輕人啦媽媽在這裡住這麼久啊你叫我現在六七十歲啊七八十歲啊你要想要叫我拿三四十年前的東西這不是擾民不是失職是什麼\n694795\t720702\t我覺得對我們來說身體健康跟年紀這些東西我們都會考量最關鍵的我們要解決問題嘛你現在那個你剛說要有一個切結是可以的嘛對不對那你一個禮拜內把這個切結的光板寫出來放到網路上讓大家可以下載或者有需要的人就到移民署去拿嘛我看移民署現在大概每天都是一缸子人去啊對不對\n722134\t729997\t電話被打爆了 現在人忙到連電話都打不進去了 對不對那你要想辦法解決問題啊發委員 我們已經設有專線 還有專郵也就是讓民眾可以傳輸的一個便利\n738342\t754327\t我們本署的網站也會公告專用電子的信箱諮詢的專線還有對外的Q&A然後我們會製作懶人包讓民眾知道要怎麼來處理那最重要的是我們要請聽這些\n756604\t782086\t接獲通知的民眾如果他不能回去大陸他的原因他的狀態是怎麼樣我們收整把他分類然後再跟陸委會來做言商現在我接到的這個投訴還有現在在網路跟媒體上看到的就是很多人根本就是去電話打不接的打進去了你們就叫他第一句話嘛去回大陸\n784670\t811668\t你去把文件找到嘛 來公證嘛你地雷太沒用 地雷你變成轉機啊你只是個總機而已啊政府存在的目的你要幫人民解決問題 要找到對的方法嘛 是不是剛剛我們有新的進展了那個陸委會的副主委 文姐我剛剛講的 切結這個事情這是一個地雷盡快給一個公版的 大家可以有一個依循這是地雷 地雷好好去檢討一下 跟海基會討論一下\n813541\t838840\t海基會如果要存在你本來就要幫人民做這個認證啊等一等我可以去你那邊查說到底以前我有沒有這個文件嘛對不對有沒有撤下這個文件嘛它本來就要保存啊啊沒有的話它存在功能它就是跟海...對岸它有對接啊它可以幫人民查不是嗎如果只要二跟三這個解決了根本就連大陸就不用跑問題就解決了啊委員跟你報告能查的或是海基會有存檔的\n839941\t861327\t都有查了所以現在在通知的就是沒有就是沒有存檔也沒有所以你看連海紀委都沒有標籤這年代這麼久很難查你強人所難嘛所以幫忙解決問題啦是好不好 另外剛才你一個電話我怎麼說過你說 你說如果沒有如期完成的你不會把人驅逐出去 趕出去喔 對不對清楚跟民眾講一下\n864059\t879185\t不會 這個要保證喔要保證喔不要發生這樣的悲劇如果真的沒有辦法拿到這些文件政府絕對不會做出這種驅逐的舉動這個和前一陣子那三位中配的案子不一樣\n880390\t900058\t這就是我們台灣人 做這麼久了嘛 對不對要保護自己的台灣人 現在特別你看 這裡高關稅那個海嘯這麼嚴重 怎麼每天都結社會啊草野都是一新的啦 各行各業 別在裡面又製造一些衝突跟這些擾民的事情這裡面老實講還有歧視跟身份檢查問題 都真的很不好啦我們今天都是解決問題喔 每個東西都很具體喔 好不好\n905405\t927498\t好好檢討一下 也要檢討一下 如果在93年3月1號以前可以排除我會努力 當然你如果要修法 立法委內 我們可以來提案可是我覺得你如果心還是軟的 行政部門本身也應該做我們滿期待的啊 陸委會行政部門自己提案啊留下一個心還是軟的 有幫人民在服務的政務官當官都是一時的啦\n928499\t933462\t留下來不要是汙名要是美名好不好還有機會我們趕快幫我們的陸培跟我們台灣人謝謝\n","txt":"現在梁文傑 梁副主委還有這個移民署的陳副署長好 副署長委員好文傑 我們兩個認識三十幾年了年輕的時候 我們心都是柔軟的可是心不要變硬 更不要變成是壞的\n特別人在公門要好修行政府存在的目的就是服務人民啊不是製造問題啊你再從今天一早這麼多人在問你的你們把它定位成是陸配我看到他們的陳情有些很多都是他們小孩來陳情的他們貼的文章\n如果是我們很年輕的時候文姐你跟我都很年輕我覺得你應該是會掉眼淚的我很希望你那個初心是還在的我看的是難過的是明明本來沒有事情啊為什麼搞出來這麼大的一個讓那麼多的家庭不安我昨天在緊急找了副署長到我辦公室對不對你們發出去的這個一萬兩千封欸\n你剛在講檢舉你有檢舉你就辦可是檢舉要辦你也要舉證啊你怎麼一下撒一萬兩千多封出去一萬兩千個家庭而且你知道你現在對象是誰嗎這些人已經來台灣三十幾年 四十幾年 五十幾年他們不只是台灣之子的老婆台灣人的老婆 台灣之子的母親他們就是個台灣人啊\n你做台灣人做20多年 做30多年 做40多年很多年紀都很長了 6 7 10歲了你讓人家叫他去拿21年前 30幾年前的東西出來你不強人所難嗎我剛剛在講政府要做什麼事情 政府要服務人民嘛你海基會 你的陸委會的功能在哪裡你的移民署功能在哪裡你一直叫他去補證件\n很多政見政府應該幫他找啊是不是我先提五個最具體的我們先來看一下五大具體的要求我先從第二個開始講你現在叫我們這個陸配你在民國93年3月1號修了兩岸人民關係條例之後你說本來要他註銷他的戶籍\n你本來六個月內要完成啊你本身沒有好好去追對不對這是不是政府本來就是失職 怠惰責任在政府嘛政府要去幫忙解決問題啊所以我第一項我基本的要求民國93年3月1號以前他已經定居了對啊 文哲你也說啊他如果已經取得身份證 從寬嘛對不對我明確要求\n在這93年3月1號之前已經來台定居了就排除了也就是你這次花了一萬兩千多份不要再追了這是第一項你這樣是不是就解決問題了我剛剛講了那麼多的台灣支持的父母的母親台灣人的老婆那麼多的台灣人就不會有這個困擾了嘛把這個時間點定出來第一項 境外責事啊你這叫他補正啊 海際會為什麼要存在\n為什麼要存在海基會海基會為什麼沒有被裁掉 為什麼要設立他不就是要幫我們人民服務嗎他要做認證的工作啊 是不是所以現在有碰到問題了 因為打電話或者到海基會去申請就好不是去找那個台六要回一趟 任何一個人要跑一趟大陸多遠啊不用工作嗎往返要多久 去還要再辦\n海基會存在的目的是什麼所以讓我們的陸配 我們的人民直接到海基會去海基會辦理那應該有的功能海基會跟大陸 海協會是對口的嘛去查啊海基會去查 到底他的戶籍還在不在啊對不對啊如果沒這問題 為什麼跑那麼一趟海基會存在才有才有才有它的價值嘛要不然拆掉啊\n另外接下來就是移民署給你入委會的功能 第三點你的目的就是要他放棄大陸這個戶籍嘛 對不對你做一個公版的申請書啊我就是要證明嘛 對不對然後你給他一個公版的這個申請書他簽名 簽完以後到這個法院去認證不就完成程序了嗎\n所以從政府的角色從海基會一直到領土委會到移民署這問題不就解決了嗎為什麼搞這麼複雜呢為什麼要擾民呢甚至還牽扯到身份的這個檢驗還有歧視的問題只要你回到初心以前的梁文傑 少年的梁文傑心是軟的 不是硬的 不是黑的政府該有的功能要扮演做到前面這幾項問題是不是都解決了\n所以我要再問一個你現在很嚴重就是叫人家三個月內要完成這個事情你們自己人家打電話去問說什麼程序要多久你們要回答說至少大概兩個月給你們多一個月時間太緊迫了啦至少把這個時間延長多一兩年另外我一個要求除了做剛剛的現在很多人民都碰到問題了我特別跟你講這邊你們刨掉的\n你不只製造了社會的對立,你刨掉了台灣很重要的根民主、法治、人權跟人道,都台灣很重要的你把這根刨掉了,然後製造了社會的對立讓很多人惶惶不安,連老蔣你們也刨掉你們民進黨自己的根啦你去看看臉書上面,還有很多來陳情的你們連民進黨的立委現在,辦公室電話都被打爆啦\n裡面有些留言說 我長期都是民進黨的支持者啊你現在有媽媽回去找一個三十幾年前 四十幾年前的東西找得到嗎連民進黨那些青鳥 那些支持者都反彈了你們在刨自己的根啊這些人本來就是在台灣人啊 人家住這麼久啊為什麼要圍爛人家呢最重要的 政府的角色扮演完以後你要的\n就可以完成這個法律的程序嘛對不對所以我明確要求你在最近一個月內北中南去辦公開說明會請聽到底碰到什麼問題幫他們解決問題文傑跟移民署副市長我們來做這五件事情好不好委員可以讓我們有時間回答嗎請說\n對我們來講其實不管是93年3月1號以前還是之後其實我們都是不准有雙重身份的那今天之所以會有3月1號這個事情是因為當初的修法我們現在是follow法律如果說立法院覺得說這個93年3月1號以前應該排除那老實講這個不是我們行政機關可以答應的\n你當初在九十一年三月一號修兩岸人民關係條例的時候你當初很多人就已經拿到身分證了耶那你要的話你當初你就一直追他說你六個月內沒有完成放棄對不對你六個月你自己沒做所以我說你是怠惰又失職啊你這個轉嫁變成要人民來負擔這個事情咧\n法律追訴期間沒有那麼長啦 都是知道當初我也不是陸委會 你也不是立委嘛你現在來追 是當初的陸委會 陸委會失職啊那你怎麼反而現在怪到人民身上 要人民來負這個責任不過委員提出的一個方案 其中第三點我一再強調 就是說如果他是當事人 真的沒有辦法\n拿到文件的話我們會有別的措施我們絕對不會說你真的沒有辦法拿到文件然後我真的把你身份取消我們不會這樣做但是很多人我還是要再強調一遍很多人都說他自己沒辦法拿到但是實際上最後都是可以的\n我只能夠這樣講所以我說你政府自己要先辦年好嘛你就讓他去海基會海基會去幫他查啊你入會的功能你移民署的功能你把那個放棄的那個\n公版的申請書給他就好啊你給我這個問題啊是不是要達到法律上要的二跟三趕快做可以嗎關於如果他真的沒有辦法那用切結的方式這是一個可以考慮的方向用切結的方式如果真的沒有辦法拿到文傑不要用個案處理啦你給一個公版嘛你所謂切結就是說他這裡是找不到對不對他確實很困難嘛由陸委會跟移民署提供一個公版切結說我確實已經放棄了找不到\n那你經過這個法院的這個認證嘛 對不對那就完成這個程序啦OK齁所以陸委會跟移民組委做這樣的事情齁在這裡跟委員報告那個副組長他是你的指導單位嘛對不對是不是你除非是要推翻他的要不然你不用再說了趕快做這件事好不好那個等一下等一下等一下讓副組委先講那個你什麼時候可以把這個公版拿出來\n這個竊竊的這個官板好不好因為禮拜可以讓大家自由上去自己是可以下載嘛那個委員我再說明一下對於那些真的沒有辦法回去拿到文件的人用竊竊的方式是可以考慮的方式但是首先我們要先確定他到底是不是\n真的沒有辦法拿到否則我們對那些真的有回去拿這些文件然後回來繳交的這些陸配也不公平你叫人家跑一趟就已經是擾民了也不公平你存在價值就是服務民眾你本來海基會可以做的因為現在14萬定居的13萬人都交了嘛那比較近期了嘛對不對比較碰到問題大部分都是在93年3月1號以前的啦你那個一萬兩千份最主要就是這個嘛對不對\n是不是 跟全民講清楚為什麼今天那麼多人這麼氣憤是因為你現在發出的一萬兩千份都是93年3月1號以前21年生的他放在這邊就住了40年50年這個都是連長的我看現在上面抗議的人都是二代啦都是年輕人啦媽媽在這裡住這麼久啊你叫我現在六七十歲啊七八十歲啊你要想要叫我拿三四十年前的東西這不是擾民不是失職是什麼\n我覺得對我們來說身體健康跟年紀這些東西我們都會考量最關鍵的我們要解決問題嘛你現在那個你剛說要有一個切結是可以的嘛對不對那你一個禮拜內把這個切結的光板寫出來放到網路上讓大家可以下載或者有需要的人就到移民署去拿嘛我看移民署現在大概每天都是一缸子人去啊對不對\n電話被打爆了 現在人忙到連電話都打不進去了 對不對那你要想辦法解決問題啊發委員 我們已經設有專線 還有專郵也就是讓民眾可以傳輸的一個便利\n我們本署的網站也會公告專用電子的信箱諮詢的專線還有對外的Q&A然後我們會製作懶人包讓民眾知道要怎麼來處理那最重要的是我們要請聽這些\n接獲通知的民眾如果他不能回去大陸他的原因他的狀態是怎麼樣我們收整把他分類然後再跟陸委會來做言商現在我接到的這個投訴還有現在在網路跟媒體上看到的就是很多人根本就是去電話打不接的打進去了你們就叫他第一句話嘛去回大陸\n你去把文件找到嘛 來公證嘛你地雷太沒用 地雷你變成轉機啊你只是個總機而已啊政府存在的目的你要幫人民解決問題 要找到對的方法嘛 是不是剛剛我們有新的進展了那個陸委會的副主委 文姐我剛剛講的 切結這個事情這是一個地雷盡快給一個公版的 大家可以有一個依循這是地雷 地雷好好去檢討一下 跟海基會討論一下\n海基會如果要存在你本來就要幫人民做這個認證啊等一等我可以去你那邊查說到底以前我有沒有這個文件嘛對不對有沒有撤下這個文件嘛它本來就要保存啊啊沒有的話它存在功能它就是跟海...對岸它有對接啊它可以幫人民查不是嗎如果只要二跟三這個解決了根本就連大陸就不用跑問題就解決了啊委員跟你報告能查的或是海基會有存檔的\n都有查了所以現在在通知的就是沒有就是沒有存檔也沒有所以你看連海紀委都沒有標籤這年代這麼久很難查你強人所難嘛所以幫忙解決問題啦是好不好 另外剛才你一個電話我怎麼說過你說 你說如果沒有如期完成的你不會把人驅逐出去 趕出去喔 對不對清楚跟民眾講一下\n不會 這個要保證喔要保證喔不要發生這樣的悲劇如果真的沒有辦法拿到這些文件政府絕對不會做出這種驅逐的舉動這個和前一陣子那三位中配的案子不一樣\n這就是我們台灣人 做這麼久了嘛 對不對要保護自己的台灣人 現在特別你看 這裡高關稅那個海嘯這麼嚴重 怎麼每天都結社會啊草野都是一新的啦 各行各業 別在裡面又製造一些衝突跟這些擾民的事情這裡面老實講還有歧視跟身份檢查問題 都真的很不好啦我們今天都是解決問題喔 每個東西都很具體喔 好不好\n好好檢討一下 也要檢討一下 如果在93年3月1號以前可以排除我會努力 當然你如果要修法 立法委內 我們可以來提案可是我覺得你如果心還是軟的 行政部門本身也應該做我們滿期待的啊 陸委會行政部門自己提案啊留下一個心還是軟的 有幫人民在服務的政務官當官都是一時的啦\n留下來不要是汙名要是美名好不好還有機會我們趕快幫我們的陸培跟我們台灣人謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:20.846 --> 00:46.053\n現在梁文傑梁副主委還有這個移民署的陳副署長好副署長委員好文傑我們兩個認識三十幾年了年輕的時候我們心都是柔軟的可是心不要變硬更不要變成是壞的\n\n00:48.359 --> 01:04.170\n特別人在公門要好修行政府存在的目的就是服務人民啊不是製造問題啊你再從今天一早這麼多人在問你的你們把它定位成是陸配我看到他們的陳情有些很多都是他們小孩來陳情的他們貼的文章\n\n01:17.506 --> 01:41.766\n如果是我們很年輕的時候文姐你跟我都很年輕我覺得你應該是會掉眼淚的我很希望你那個初心是還在的我看的是難過的是明明本來沒有事情啊為什麼搞出來這麼大的一個讓那麼多的家庭不安我昨天在緊急找了副署長到我辦公室對不對你們發出去的這個一萬兩千封欸\n\n01:49.005 --> 02:13.804\n你剛在講檢舉你有檢舉你就辦可是檢舉要辦你也要舉證啊你怎麼一下撒一萬兩千多封出去一萬兩千個家庭而且你知道你現在對象是誰嗎這些人已經來台灣三十幾年四十幾年五十幾年他們不只是台灣之子的老婆台灣人的老婆台灣之子的母親他們就是個台灣人啊\n\n02:15.285 --> 02:24.152\n你做台灣人做20多年做30多年做40多年很多年紀都很長了6710歲了你讓人家叫他去拿21年前30幾年前的東西出來你不強人所難嗎我剛剛在講政府要做什麼事情政府要服務人民嘛你海基會你的陸委會的功能在哪裡你的移民署功能在哪裡你一直叫他去補證件\n\n02:43.800 --> 02:50.862\n很多政見政府應該幫他找啊是不是我先提五個最具體的我們先來看一下五大具體的要求我先從第二個開始講你現在叫我們這個陸配你在民國93年3月1號修了兩岸人民關係條例之後你說本來要他註銷他的戶籍\n\n03:10.216 --> 03:32.031\n你本來六個月內要完成啊你本身沒有好好去追對不對這是不是政府本來就是失職怠惰責任在政府嘛政府要去幫忙解決問題啊所以我第一項我基本的要求民國93年3月1號以前他已經定居了對啊文哲你也說啊他如果已經取得身份證從寬嘛對不對我明確要求\n\n03:33.106 --> 04:02.452\n在這93年3月1號之前已經來台定居了就排除了也就是你這次花了一萬兩千多份不要再追了這是第一項你這樣是不是就解決問題了我剛剛講了那麼多的台灣支持的父母的母親台灣人的老婆那麼多的台灣人就不會有這個困擾了嘛把這個時間點定出來第一項境外責事啊你這叫他補正啊海際會為什麼要存在\n\n04:04.326 --> 04:18.960\n為什麼要存在海基會海基會為什麼沒有被裁掉為什麼要設立他不就是要幫我們人民服務嗎他要做認證的工作啊是不是所以現在有碰到問題了因為打電話或者到海基會去申請就好不是去找那個台六要回一趟任何一個人要跑一趟大陸多遠啊不用工作嗎往返要多久去還要再辦\n\n04:30.233 --> 04:41.581\n海基會存在的目的是什麼所以讓我們的陸配我們的人民直接到海基會去海基會辦理那應該有的功能海基會跟大陸海協會是對口的嘛去查啊海基會去查到底他的戶籍還在不在啊對不對啊如果沒這問題為什麼跑那麼一趟海基會存在才有才有才有它的價值嘛要不然拆掉啊\n\n04:57.458 --> 05:24.881\n另外接下來就是移民署給你入委會的功能第三點你的目的就是要他放棄大陸這個戶籍嘛對不對你做一個公版的申請書啊我就是要證明嘛對不對然後你給他一個公版的這個申請書他簽名簽完以後到這個法院去認證不就完成程序了嗎\n\n05:26.823 --> 05:52.308\n所以從政府的角色從海基會一直到領土委會到移民署這問題不就解決了嗎為什麼搞這麼複雜呢為什麼要擾民呢甚至還牽扯到身份的這個檢驗還有歧視的問題只要你回到初心以前的梁文傑少年的梁文傑心是軟的不是硬的不是黑的政府該有的功能要扮演做到前面這幾項問題是不是都解決了\n\n05:55.562 --> 06:21.175\n所以我要再問一個你現在很嚴重就是叫人家三個月內要完成這個事情你們自己人家打電話去問說什麼程序要多久你們要回答說至少大概兩個月給你們多一個月時間太緊迫了啦至少把這個時間延長多一兩年另外我一個要求除了做剛剛的現在很多人民都碰到問題了我特別跟你講這邊你們刨掉的\n\n06:22.915 --> 06:46.725\n你不只製造了社會的對立,你刨掉了台灣很重要的根民主、法治、人權跟人道,都台灣很重要的你把這根刨掉了,然後製造了社會的對立讓很多人惶惶不安,連老蔣你們也刨掉你們民進黨自己的根啦你去看看臉書上面,還有很多來陳情的你們連民進黨的立委現在,辦公室電話都被打爆啦\n\n06:48.493 --> 07:11.038\n裡面有些留言說我長期都是民進黨的支持者啊你現在有媽媽回去找一個三十幾年前四十幾年前的東西找得到嗎連民進黨那些青鳥那些支持者都反彈了你們在刨自己的根啊這些人本來就是在台灣人啊人家住這麼久啊為什麼要圍爛人家呢最重要的政府的角色扮演完以後你要的\n\n07:12.148 --> 07:28.040\n就可以完成這個法律的程序嘛對不對所以我明確要求你在最近一個月內北中南去辦公開說明會請聽到底碰到什麼問題幫他們解決問題文傑跟移民署副市長我們來做這五件事情好不好委員可以讓我們有時間回答嗎請說\n\n07:30.859 --> 07:57.279\n對我們來講其實不管是93年3月1號以前還是之後其實我們都是不准有雙重身份的那今天之所以會有3月1號這個事情是因為當初的修法我們現在是follow法律如果說立法院覺得說這個93年3月1號以前應該排除那老實講這個不是我們行政機關可以答應的\n\n07:59.881 --> 08:17.863\n你當初在九十一年三月一號修兩岸人民關係條例的時候你當初很多人就已經拿到身分證了耶那你要的話你當初你就一直追他說你六個月內沒有完成放棄對不對你六個月你自己沒做所以我說你是怠惰又失職啊你這個轉嫁變成要人民來負擔這個事情咧\n\n08:19.363 --> 08:41.417\n法律追訴期間沒有那麼長啦都是知道當初我也不是陸委會你也不是立委嘛你現在來追是當初的陸委會陸委會失職啊那你怎麼反而現在怪到人民身上要人民來負這個責任不過委員提出的一個方案其中第三點我一再強調就是說如果他是當事人真的沒有辦法\n\n08:42.404 --> 09:03.921\n拿到文件的話我們會有別的措施我們絕對不會說你真的沒有辦法拿到文件然後我真的把你身份取消我們不會這樣做但是很多人我還是要再強調一遍很多人都說他自己沒辦法拿到但是實際上最後都是可以的\n\n09:06.038 --> 09:16.003\n我只能夠這樣講所以我說你政府自己要先辦年好嘛你就讓他去海基會海基會去幫他查啊你入會的功能你移民署的功能你把那個放棄的那個\n\n09:17.199 --> 09:45.151\n公版的申請書給他就好啊你給我這個問題啊是不是要達到法律上要的二跟三趕快做可以嗎關於如果他真的沒有辦法那用切結的方式這是一個可以考慮的方向用切結的方式如果真的沒有辦法拿到文傑不要用個案處理啦你給一個公版嘛你所謂切結就是說他這裡是找不到對不對他確實很困難嘛由陸委會跟移民署提供一個公版切結說我確實已經放棄了找不到\n\n09:45.891 --> 10:11.733\n那你經過這個法院的這個認證嘛對不對那就完成這個程序啦OK齁所以陸委會跟移民組委做這樣的事情齁在這裡跟委員報告那個副組長他是你的指導單位嘛對不對是不是你除非是要推翻他的要不然你不用再說了趕快做這件事好不好那個等一下等一下等一下讓副組委先講那個你什麼時候可以把這個公版拿出來\n\n10:13.899 --> 10:36.212\n這個竊竊的這個官板好不好因為禮拜可以讓大家自由上去自己是可以下載嘛那個委員我再說明一下對於那些真的沒有辦法回去拿到文件的人用竊竊的方式是可以考慮的方式但是首先我們要先確定他到底是不是\n\n10:37.372 --> 11:03.952\n真的沒有辦法拿到否則我們對那些真的有回去拿這些文件然後回來繳交的這些陸配也不公平你叫人家跑一趟就已經是擾民了也不公平你存在價值就是服務民眾你本來海基會可以做的因為現在14萬定居的13萬人都交了嘛那比較近期了嘛對不對比較碰到問題大部分都是在93年3月1號以前的啦你那個一萬兩千份最主要就是這個嘛對不對\n\n11:05.031 --> 11:33.635\n是不是跟全民講清楚為什麼今天那麼多人這麼氣憤是因為你現在發出的一萬兩千份都是93年3月1號以前21年生的他放在這邊就住了40年50年這個都是連長的我看現在上面抗議的人都是二代啦都是年輕人啦媽媽在這裡住這麼久啊你叫我現在六七十歲啊七八十歲啊你要想要叫我拿三四十年前的東西這不是擾民不是失職是什麼\n\n11:34.795 --> 12:00.702\n我覺得對我們來說身體健康跟年紀這些東西我們都會考量最關鍵的我們要解決問題嘛你現在那個你剛說要有一個切結是可以的嘛對不對那你一個禮拜內把這個切結的光板寫出來放到網路上讓大家可以下載或者有需要的人就到移民署去拿嘛我看移民署現在大概每天都是一缸子人去啊對不對\n\n12:02.134 --> 12:09.997\n電話被打爆了現在人忙到連電話都打不進去了對不對那你要想辦法解決問題啊發委員我們已經設有專線還有專郵也就是讓民眾可以傳輸的一個便利\n\n12:18.342 --> 12:34.327\n我們本署的網站也會公告專用電子的信箱諮詢的專線還有對外的Q&A然後我們會製作懶人包讓民眾知道要怎麼來處理那最重要的是我們要請聽這些\n\n12:36.604 --> 13:02.086\n接獲通知的民眾如果他不能回去大陸他的原因他的狀態是怎麼樣我們收整把他分類然後再跟陸委會來做言商現在我接到的這個投訴還有現在在網路跟媒體上看到的就是很多人根本就是去電話打不接的打進去了你們就叫他第一句話嘛去回大陸\n\n13:04.670 --> 13:31.668\n你去把文件找到嘛來公證嘛你地雷太沒用地雷你變成轉機啊你只是個總機而已啊政府存在的目的你要幫人民解決問題要找到對的方法嘛是不是剛剛我們有新的進展了那個陸委會的副主委文姐我剛剛講的切結這個事情這是一個地雷盡快給一個公版的大家可以有一個依循這是地雷地雷好好去檢討一下跟海基會討論一下\n\n13:33.541 --> 13:58.840\n海基會如果要存在你本來就要幫人民做這個認證啊等一等我可以去你那邊查說到底以前我有沒有這個文件嘛對不對有沒有撤下這個文件嘛它本來就要保存啊啊沒有的話它存在功能它就是跟海...對岸它有對接啊它可以幫人民查不是嗎如果只要二跟三這個解決了根本就連大陸就不用跑問題就解決了啊委員跟你報告能查的或是海基會有存檔的\n\n13:59.941 --> 14:21.327\n都有查了所以現在在通知的就是沒有就是沒有存檔也沒有所以你看連海紀委都沒有標籤這年代這麼久很難查你強人所難嘛所以幫忙解決問題啦是好不好另外剛才你一個電話我怎麼說過你說你說如果沒有如期完成的你不會把人驅逐出去趕出去喔對不對清楚跟民眾講一下\n\n14:24.059 --> 14:39.185\n不會這個要保證喔要保證喔不要發生這樣的悲劇如果真的沒有辦法拿到這些文件政府絕對不會做出這種驅逐的舉動這個和前一陣子那三位中配的案子不一樣\n\n14:40.390 --> 15:00.058\n這就是我們台灣人做這麼久了嘛對不對要保護自己的台灣人現在特別你看這裡高關稅那個海嘯這麼嚴重怎麼每天都結社會啊草野都是一新的啦各行各業別在裡面又製造一些衝突跟這些擾民的事情這裡面老實講還有歧視跟身份檢查問題都真的很不好啦我們今天都是解決問題喔每個東西都很具體喔好不好\n\n15:05.405 --> 15:27.498\n好好檢討一下也要檢討一下如果在93年3月1號以前可以排除我會努力當然你如果要修法立法委內我們可以來提案可是我覺得你如果心還是軟的行政部門本身也應該做我們滿期待的啊陸委會行政部門自己提案啊留下一個心還是軟的有幫人民在服務的政務官當官都是一時的啦\n\n15:28.499 --> 15:33.462\n留下來不要是汙名要是美名好不好還有機會我們趕快幫我們的陸培跟我們台灣人謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":20.846,"end":46.053,"text":"現在梁文傑 梁副主委還有這個移民署的陳副署長好 副署長委員好文傑 我們兩個認識三十幾年了年輕的時候 我們心都是柔軟的可是心不要變硬 更不要變成是壞的"},{"start":48.359,"end":64.17,"text":"特別人在公門要好修行政府存在的目的就是服務人民啊不是製造問題啊你再從今天一早這麼多人在問你的你們把它定位成是陸配我看到他們的陳情有些很多都是他們小孩來陳情的他們貼的文章"},{"start":77.506,"end":101.766,"text":"如果是我們很年輕的時候文姐你跟我都很年輕我覺得你應該是會掉眼淚的我很希望你那個初心是還在的我看的是難過的是明明本來沒有事情啊為什麼搞出來這麼大的一個讓那麼多的家庭不安我昨天在緊急找了副署長到我辦公室對不對你們發出去的這個一萬兩千封欸"},{"start":109.005,"end":133.804,"text":"你剛在講檢舉你有檢舉你就辦可是檢舉要辦你也要舉證啊你怎麼一下撒一萬兩千多封出去一萬兩千個家庭而且你知道你現在對象是誰嗎這些人已經來台灣三十幾年 四十幾年 五十幾年他們不只是台灣之子的老婆台灣人的老婆 台灣之子的母親他們就是個台灣人啊"},{"start":135.285,"end":144.152,"text":"你做台灣人做20多年 做30多年 做40多年很多年紀都很長了 6 7 10歲了你讓人家叫他去拿21年前 30幾年前的東西出來你不強人所難嗎我剛剛在講政府要做什麼事情 政府要服務人民嘛你海基會 你的陸委會的功能在哪裡你的移民署功能在哪裡你一直叫他去補證件"},{"start":163.8,"end":170.862,"text":"很多政見政府應該幫他找啊是不是我先提五個最具體的我們先來看一下五大具體的要求我先從第二個開始講你現在叫我們這個陸配你在民國93年3月1號修了兩岸人民關係條例之後你說本來要他註銷他的戶籍"},{"start":190.216,"end":212.031,"text":"你本來六個月內要完成啊你本身沒有好好去追對不對這是不是政府本來就是失職 怠惰責任在政府嘛政府要去幫忙解決問題啊所以我第一項我基本的要求民國93年3月1號以前他已經定居了對啊 文哲你也說啊他如果已經取得身份證 從寬嘛對不對我明確要求"},{"start":213.106,"end":242.452,"text":"在這93年3月1號之前已經來台定居了就排除了也就是你這次花了一萬兩千多份不要再追了這是第一項你這樣是不是就解決問題了我剛剛講了那麼多的台灣支持的父母的母親台灣人的老婆那麼多的台灣人就不會有這個困擾了嘛把這個時間點定出來第一項 境外責事啊你這叫他補正啊 海際會為什麼要存在"},{"start":244.326,"end":258.96,"text":"為什麼要存在海基會海基會為什麼沒有被裁掉 為什麼要設立他不就是要幫我們人民服務嗎他要做認證的工作啊 是不是所以現在有碰到問題了 因為打電話或者到海基會去申請就好不是去找那個台六要回一趟 任何一個人要跑一趟大陸多遠啊不用工作嗎往返要多久 去還要再辦"},{"start":270.233,"end":281.581,"text":"海基會存在的目的是什麼所以讓我們的陸配 我們的人民直接到海基會去海基會辦理那應該有的功能海基會跟大陸 海協會是對口的嘛去查啊海基會去查 到底他的戶籍還在不在啊對不對啊如果沒這問題 為什麼跑那麼一趟海基會存在才有才有才有它的價值嘛要不然拆掉啊"},{"start":297.458,"end":324.881,"text":"另外接下來就是移民署給你入委會的功能 第三點你的目的就是要他放棄大陸這個戶籍嘛 對不對你做一個公版的申請書啊我就是要證明嘛 對不對然後你給他一個公版的這個申請書他簽名 簽完以後到這個法院去認證不就完成程序了嗎"},{"start":326.823,"end":352.308,"text":"所以從政府的角色從海基會一直到領土委會到移民署這問題不就解決了嗎為什麼搞這麼複雜呢為什麼要擾民呢甚至還牽扯到身份的這個檢驗還有歧視的問題只要你回到初心以前的梁文傑 少年的梁文傑心是軟的 不是硬的 不是黑的政府該有的功能要扮演做到前面這幾項問題是不是都解決了"},{"start":355.562,"end":381.175,"text":"所以我要再問一個你現在很嚴重就是叫人家三個月內要完成這個事情你們自己人家打電話去問說什麼程序要多久你們要回答說至少大概兩個月給你們多一個月時間太緊迫了啦至少把這個時間延長多一兩年另外我一個要求除了做剛剛的現在很多人民都碰到問題了我特別跟你講這邊你們刨掉的"},{"start":382.915,"end":406.725,"text":"你不只製造了社會的對立,你刨掉了台灣很重要的根民主、法治、人權跟人道,都台灣很重要的你把這根刨掉了,然後製造了社會的對立讓很多人惶惶不安,連老蔣你們也刨掉你們民進黨自己的根啦你去看看臉書上面,還有很多來陳情的你們連民進黨的立委現在,辦公室電話都被打爆啦"},{"start":408.493,"end":431.038,"text":"裡面有些留言說 我長期都是民進黨的支持者啊你現在有媽媽回去找一個三十幾年前 四十幾年前的東西找得到嗎連民進黨那些青鳥 那些支持者都反彈了你們在刨自己的根啊這些人本來就是在台灣人啊 人家住這麼久啊為什麼要圍爛人家呢最重要的 政府的角色扮演完以後你要的"},{"start":432.148,"end":448.04,"text":"就可以完成這個法律的程序嘛對不對所以我明確要求你在最近一個月內北中南去辦公開說明會請聽到底碰到什麼問題幫他們解決問題文傑跟移民署副市長我們來做這五件事情好不好委員可以讓我們有時間回答嗎請說"},{"start":450.859,"end":477.279,"text":"對我們來講其實不管是93年3月1號以前還是之後其實我們都是不准有雙重身份的那今天之所以會有3月1號這個事情是因為當初的修法我們現在是follow法律如果說立法院覺得說這個93年3月1號以前應該排除那老實講這個不是我們行政機關可以答應的"},{"start":479.881,"end":497.863,"text":"你當初在九十一年三月一號修兩岸人民關係條例的時候你當初很多人就已經拿到身分證了耶那你要的話你當初你就一直追他說你六個月內沒有完成放棄對不對你六個月你自己沒做所以我說你是怠惰又失職啊你這個轉嫁變成要人民來負擔這個事情咧"},{"start":499.363,"end":521.417,"text":"法律追訴期間沒有那麼長啦 都是知道當初我也不是陸委會 你也不是立委嘛你現在來追 是當初的陸委會 陸委會失職啊那你怎麼反而現在怪到人民身上 要人民來負這個責任不過委員提出的一個方案 其中第三點我一再強調 就是說如果他是當事人 真的沒有辦法"},{"start":522.404,"end":543.921,"text":"拿到文件的話我們會有別的措施我們絕對不會說你真的沒有辦法拿到文件然後我真的把你身份取消我們不會這樣做但是很多人我還是要再強調一遍很多人都說他自己沒辦法拿到但是實際上最後都是可以的"},{"start":546.038,"end":556.003,"text":"我只能夠這樣講所以我說你政府自己要先辦年好嘛你就讓他去海基會海基會去幫他查啊你入會的功能你移民署的功能你把那個放棄的那個"},{"start":557.199,"end":585.151,"text":"公版的申請書給他就好啊你給我這個問題啊是不是要達到法律上要的二跟三趕快做可以嗎關於如果他真的沒有辦法那用切結的方式這是一個可以考慮的方向用切結的方式如果真的沒有辦法拿到文傑不要用個案處理啦你給一個公版嘛你所謂切結就是說他這裡是找不到對不對他確實很困難嘛由陸委會跟移民署提供一個公版切結說我確實已經放棄了找不到"},{"start":585.891,"end":611.733,"text":"那你經過這個法院的這個認證嘛 對不對那就完成這個程序啦OK齁所以陸委會跟移民組委做這樣的事情齁在這裡跟委員報告那個副組長他是你的指導單位嘛對不對是不是你除非是要推翻他的要不然你不用再說了趕快做這件事好不好那個等一下等一下等一下讓副組委先講那個你什麼時候可以把這個公版拿出來"},{"start":613.899,"end":636.212,"text":"這個竊竊的這個官板好不好因為禮拜可以讓大家自由上去自己是可以下載嘛那個委員我再說明一下對於那些真的沒有辦法回去拿到文件的人用竊竊的方式是可以考慮的方式但是首先我們要先確定他到底是不是"},{"start":637.372,"end":663.952,"text":"真的沒有辦法拿到否則我們對那些真的有回去拿這些文件然後回來繳交的這些陸配也不公平你叫人家跑一趟就已經是擾民了也不公平你存在價值就是服務民眾你本來海基會可以做的因為現在14萬定居的13萬人都交了嘛那比較近期了嘛對不對比較碰到問題大部分都是在93年3月1號以前的啦你那個一萬兩千份最主要就是這個嘛對不對"},{"start":665.031,"end":693.635,"text":"是不是 跟全民講清楚為什麼今天那麼多人這麼氣憤是因為你現在發出的一萬兩千份都是93年3月1號以前21年生的他放在這邊就住了40年50年這個都是連長的我看現在上面抗議的人都是二代啦都是年輕人啦媽媽在這裡住這麼久啊你叫我現在六七十歲啊七八十歲啊你要想要叫我拿三四十年前的東西這不是擾民不是失職是什麼"},{"start":694.795,"end":720.702,"text":"我覺得對我們來說身體健康跟年紀這些東西我們都會考量最關鍵的我們要解決問題嘛你現在那個你剛說要有一個切結是可以的嘛對不對那你一個禮拜內把這個切結的光板寫出來放到網路上讓大家可以下載或者有需要的人就到移民署去拿嘛我看移民署現在大概每天都是一缸子人去啊對不對"},{"start":722.134,"end":729.997,"text":"電話被打爆了 現在人忙到連電話都打不進去了 對不對那你要想辦法解決問題啊發委員 我們已經設有專線 還有專郵也就是讓民眾可以傳輸的一個便利"},{"start":738.342,"end":754.327,"text":"我們本署的網站也會公告專用電子的信箱諮詢的專線還有對外的Q&A然後我們會製作懶人包讓民眾知道要怎麼來處理那最重要的是我們要請聽這些"},{"start":756.604,"end":782.086,"text":"接獲通知的民眾如果他不能回去大陸他的原因他的狀態是怎麼樣我們收整把他分類然後再跟陸委會來做言商現在我接到的這個投訴還有現在在網路跟媒體上看到的就是很多人根本就是去電話打不接的打進去了你們就叫他第一句話嘛去回大陸"},{"start":784.67,"end":811.668,"text":"你去把文件找到嘛 來公證嘛你地雷太沒用 地雷你變成轉機啊你只是個總機而已啊政府存在的目的你要幫人民解決問題 要找到對的方法嘛 是不是剛剛我們有新的進展了那個陸委會的副主委 文姐我剛剛講的 切結這個事情這是一個地雷盡快給一個公版的 大家可以有一個依循這是地雷 地雷好好去檢討一下 跟海基會討論一下"},{"start":813.541,"end":838.84,"text":"海基會如果要存在你本來就要幫人民做這個認證啊等一等我可以去你那邊查說到底以前我有沒有這個文件嘛對不對有沒有撤下這個文件嘛它本來就要保存啊啊沒有的話它存在功能它就是跟海...對岸它有對接啊它可以幫人民查不是嗎如果只要二跟三這個解決了根本就連大陸就不用跑問題就解決了啊委員跟你報告能查的或是海基會有存檔的"},{"start":839.941,"end":861.327,"text":"都有查了所以現在在通知的就是沒有就是沒有存檔也沒有所以你看連海紀委都沒有標籤這年代這麼久很難查你強人所難嘛所以幫忙解決問題啦是好不好 另外剛才你一個電話我怎麼說過你說 你說如果沒有如期完成的你不會把人驅逐出去 趕出去喔 對不對清楚跟民眾講一下"},{"start":864.059,"end":879.185,"text":"不會 這個要保證喔要保證喔不要發生這樣的悲劇如果真的沒有辦法拿到這些文件政府絕對不會做出這種驅逐的舉動這個和前一陣子那三位中配的案子不一樣"},{"start":880.39,"end":900.058,"text":"這就是我們台灣人 做這麼久了嘛 對不對要保護自己的台灣人 現在特別你看 這裡高關稅那個海嘯這麼嚴重 怎麼每天都結社會啊草野都是一新的啦 各行各業 別在裡面又製造一些衝突跟這些擾民的事情這裡面老實講還有歧視跟身份檢查問題 都真的很不好啦我們今天都是解決問題喔 每個東西都很具體喔 好不好"},{"start":905.405,"end":927.498,"text":"好好檢討一下 也要檢討一下 如果在93年3月1號以前可以排除我會努力 當然你如果要修法 立法委內 我們可以來提案可是我覺得你如果心還是軟的 行政部門本身也應該做我們滿期待的啊 陸委會行政部門自己提案啊留下一個心還是軟的 有幫人民在服務的政務官當官都是一時的啦"},{"start":928.499,"end":933.462,"text":"留下來不要是汙名要是美名好不好還有機會我們趕快幫我們的陸培跟我們台灣人謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1173,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（13時8分）謝謝主席，請梁文傑梁副主委，還有移民署的陳副署長。"],["主席：請副主委、副署長。"],["梁副主任委員文傑：委員好。"],["張委員啓楷：文傑，我們兩個認識三十幾年了，年輕的時候我們的心都是柔軟的，可是心不要變硬，更不要變成壞的，特別是人在公門要好修行。政府存在的目的就是服務人民，不是製造問題啊！從今天一早這麼多人在問你，你們把他定位成陸配，我看到他們的陳情，很多都是他們的小孩來陳情的。看了他們貼的文章，文傑跟我都很年輕，我覺得你應該是會掉眼淚的，我很希望你那個初心還在。我看了難過的是，明明本來沒有事情，為什麼搞出這麼大的事，讓那麼多的家庭不安？","昨天我也緊急找副署長到我的辦公室，你們發出去1萬2,000封耶！你剛剛在講檢舉，有檢舉你就辦，可是檢舉要辦也要舉證啊！一下撒1萬2,000封出去，影響1萬2,000個家庭，而且你知道現在的對象是誰嗎？這些人已經來臺灣三十幾年、四十幾年、五十幾年，他們不只是臺灣人的老婆、臺灣之子的母親，他們就是臺灣人啊！做臺灣人做了二十幾年、三十幾年、四十幾年，很多人的年紀都很長了，已經六、七十歲了，你突然叫人家去拿二十年前、三十幾年前的東西出來，不是強人所難嗎？","我剛剛在講，政府要做什麼事情？政府要服務人民嘛！海基會、陸委會的功能在哪裡？移民署的功能在哪裡？你一直叫他去補證件，很多證件政府要幫他找啊！是不是？我提出五個最具體的要求，我們先來看一下五大具體的要求，我先從第二個開始講，民國93年3月1號修了兩岸人民關係條例之後，你說要他註銷陸籍，本來六個月內要完成，但你們沒有好好去追對不對？這是不是政府本來就是失職、怠惰，責任在政府嘛！政府要去幫忙解決問題，所以我第一項基本的要求，民國93年3月1號以前已經定居的，剛才也說了，他如果已經取得身分證就從寬對不對？我明確要求，在93年3月1號之前已經來臺定居就排除，也就是你這次發了一萬兩千多份，不要再追了，這是第一項，這樣是不是就解決問題了？我剛剛講了，那麼多臺灣之子的母親、臺灣人的老婆，那麼多的臺灣人，就不會有這個困擾了嘛！把這個時間點定出來。","第二項是政府要做的事情，現在卻要他補證，海基會為什麼存在？為什麼要存在海基會？海基會為什麼沒有被裁掉？為什麼要設立？它不就是要幫我們人民服務嗎？它要做認證的工作，是不是？所以現在碰到問題了應該打電話，或者到海基會去申請就好，不是要他們回去大陸，任何一個人要跑一趟大陸多遠啊！不用工作嗎？往返要多久？去還要再辦，海基會存在的目的是什麼？所以讓我們的陸配、我們的人民直接到海基會去，海基會扮演它應該有的功能。海基會跟大陸的海協會是對口的，去查啊！海基會去查，到底他們的戶籍還在不在，對不對？如果沒這個問題，為什麼要跑那麼一趟？海基會存在才有它的價值，要不然就裁掉啊！","接下來是關於移民署跟陸委會的功能，第三點，你的目的就是要他放棄大陸戶籍，對不對？你做一個公版的申請書啊！我就是要證明，對不對？然後你給他一個公版的申請書請他簽名，簽完以後到法院去認證，不就完成程序了嗎？所以從政府的角色，從海基會一直到陸委會、到移民署，這問題不就解決了嗎？為什麼搞這麼複雜呢？為什麼要擾民呢？甚至裡面牽扯到身分的檢驗，還有歧視的問題，只要你回到初心，以前的梁文傑、年輕的梁文傑心是軟的，不是硬的、不是黑的，政府該有的功能要扮演，做到前面這幾項，問題是不是都解決了？現在很嚴重的就是叫人家三個月內要完成這件事情，人家打電話去問程序要多久，你們回答大概兩個月，給你們多一個月，時間太緊迫了啦！至少把這個時間延長多一兩年。","另外我有一個要求，現在很多人民都碰到問題了，文傑，我特別跟你講，這次你不只製造了社會的對立，還刨掉了臺灣很重要的根。民主、法治、人權跟人道，都是臺灣很重要的，你把根刨掉了，製造了社會的對立，讓很多人惶惶不安，老實講你們也刨掉民進黨自己的根。你去看看臉書上面還有很多來陳情的，現在連民進黨立委辦公室的電話都被打爆，裡面有些留言說他長期都是民進黨的支持者，你現在要我媽媽回去找一個三十幾年前、四十幾年前的東西，找得到嗎？連民進黨那些青鳥、那些支持者都反彈了，你們也在刨自己的根啊！這些人本來就是臺灣人，都住在這裡這麼久了，為什麼要為難人家呢？最重要的是政府的角色扮演完以後，你要的就是完成這個法律的程序，對不對？所以我明確要求你在最近一個月內，北、中、南去辦公開說明會，傾聽到底碰到什麼問題，幫他們解決問題。文傑跟移民署副署長，我們來做這五件事情好不好？"],["梁副主任委員文傑：委員，可以讓我們有時間回答嗎？"],["張委員啓楷：請說。"],["梁副主任委員文傑：對我們來講，不管是93年3月1號以前還是之後，其實我們都是不准有雙重身分的，今天之所以會有3月1號這個事情，是因為當初的修法，我們現在是follow法律，如果立法院覺得93年3月1號以前應該排除，老實講這個不是我們行政機關可以答應的。"],["張委員啓楷：93年3月1號修兩岸人民關係條例的時候，當時很多人就已經拿到身分證了，那你要的話，當初就要追查他有沒有在6個月內完成放棄，對不對？"],["梁副主任委員文傑：是。"],["張委員啓楷：那6個月你自己沒做，所以我說你是怠惰又失職啊！怎麼能轉嫁，變成要人民來負擔這個事情呢？法律追朔期間沒有那麼長啦！說實在的……"],["梁副主任委員文傑：啓楷委員，當初我不是陸委會，你也不是立委……"],["張委員啓楷：現在換你來追，是當初的陸委會失職，現在怎麼反而怪到人民身上，要人民來負這個責任？"],["梁副主任委員文傑：不過委員提出的方案，其中第三點，我一再強調，就是說如果他是當事人，真的沒辦法拿到文件，我們會有別的措施，絕對不會說你真的沒辦法拿到文件，就把你的身分取消，我們不會這樣做，但是我還是要再強調一遍，很多人都說他沒辦法拿到，實際上最後都是可以的，我只能夠這樣講。"],["張委員啓楷：所以我說政府要先扮演好，你就讓他去海基會，請海基會去幫他查，陸委會的功能、移民署的功能就是把那個放棄的公版申請書給他就好了，這樣就能解決問題，是不是能達到法律上要的？二跟三趕快做，可以嗎？"],["梁副主任委員文傑：關於如果他真的沒有辦法，那用切結的方式，這是一個可以考慮的方向。"],["張委員啓楷：用切結的方式？"],["梁副主任委員文傑：對，如果真的沒有辦法拿到……"],["張委員啓楷：文傑，不要用個案處理啦！你給一個公版，所謂的切結就是他真的找不到，確實很困難嘛！由陸委會跟移民署提供一個公版，切結說他確實已經放棄了，找不到，經過法院的認證，就完成這個程序啦！OK嗎？所以陸委會跟移民署可以做這件事情？"],["陳副署長建成：在這裡跟委員報告……"],["張委員啓楷：副署長，他是你的指導單位對不對？你除非是要推翻他的，要不然你不用再說了，趕快做這件事好不好？等一下，讓副主委先講，你什麼時候可以把這個切結書的公版拿出來？一個禮拜可以讓大家自由上去下載。"],["梁副主任委員文傑：委員，我再說明一下，對於那些真的沒有辦法回去拿到文件的人，用切結的方式是可以考慮的方式，但是首先我們要先確定，他到底是不是真的沒有辦法拿到，否則我們對那些真的有回去拿這些文件，然後回來繳交的這些陸配也不公平。"],["張委員啓楷：你叫人家跑一趟就已經是擾民了，而且你的存在價值就是服務民眾，本來海基會可以做的……"],["梁副主任委員文傑：因為現在14萬定居的，13萬人都交了。"],["張委員啓楷：那比較近期了對不對？"],["梁副主任委員文傑：對，13萬人都交了。"],["張委員啓楷：你現在遇到的問題大部分都是在93年3月1號以前的，那1萬2,000份最主要就是這個，對不對？"],["梁副主任委員文傑：是。"],["張委員啓楷：跟全民講清楚，為什麼今天那麼多人這麼氣憤？是因為你現在發出這1萬2,000份都是93年3月1號以前，21年前耶！他可能在這裡已經住了40年、50年，這些都是年長的。我看現在上面抗議的人都是二代啦！都是年輕人啦！"],["梁副主任委員文傑：也有一代。"],["張委員啓楷：媽媽在這裡住這麼久了，現在六七十歲、七八十歲了，你突然叫我拿出三、四十年前的東西，這不是擾民、不是失職是什麼？"],["梁副主任委員文傑：對我們來說，身體健康跟年紀我們都會考量。"],["張委員啓楷：對。最關鍵的是我們要解決問題嘛！你剛剛說要一個切結是可以的，對不對？那你一個禮拜內把切結的公版寫出來，放到網路上讓大家可以下載，或者有需要的人就到移民署去拿嘛！我看移民署現在大概每天都是一缸子人去啊！對不對？電話被打爆啦！現在是忙到連電話都打不進去了，對不對？那你要想辦法解決問題啊！"],["陳副署長建成：報告委員，我們已經設有專線，還有專郵，也就是讓民眾可以傳輸的一個便利啦！本署的網站也會公告專用的電子信箱、諮詢的專線，還有對外的Q&A。然後我們會製作懶人包，讓民眾知道要怎麼來處理。最重要的是我們要傾聽，就是這些接獲通知的民眾不能回去大陸的原因和狀態是怎麼樣，我們蒐整、分類，然後再跟陸委會研商，給他一個妥善……"],["張委員啓楷：建成，現在我接到的投訴還有現在在網路和媒體上看到的，很多人根本就是電話打不進去。打進去了，你們的第一句話就是叫他回大陸把文件找到來公證。第一是你們太忙了，第二是你們變成轉接啊！你們只是一個總機而已啊！政府存在的目的是要幫人民解決問題，要找到對的方法嘛！是不是？","剛剛我們有新的進展了。陸委會副主委，文傑，我剛剛講的，切結這個事情儘快給一個公版的，大家可以有一個依循，這是第一點。第二點，好好去檢討一下，跟海基會討論一下。海基會如果要存在，你本來就要幫人民做這個認證啊！民眾可以去你那邊查詢以前有沒有這個文件，有沒有撤銷這個文件，它本來就要保存啊！沒有的話，它存在的功能就是跟對岸有對接啊！它可以去幫人民查，不是嗎？如果只要二跟三解決了，根本連大陸都不用跑，問題就解決了！"],["梁副主任委員文傑：委員，跟你報告，能查的或者海基會有存檔的都有查了，所以現在再通知的就是沒有存檔，也沒有……"],["張委員啓楷：所以你看連海基會都沒有，那就表示年代那麼久很難查了，你強人所難嘛！所以幫忙解決問題啦！好不好？"],["梁副主任委員文傑：是。"],["張委員啓楷：另外還有一個重點，我剛才說過了，你說如果沒有如期完成的，你不會把人驅逐出去、趕出去哦！對不對？清楚跟民眾講一下，不會吧？這個要保證哦！不要發生這樣的悲劇。"],["梁副主任委員文傑：如果真的沒有辦法拿到這些文件，政府絕對不會做出這種驅逐的舉動，這個和前一陣子那3位中配的案子不一樣。"],["張委員啓楷：對嘛！那些都是我們臺灣人啊！在這裡住這麼久了，對不對？要保護我們自己臺灣人，好不好？特別是這幾天高關稅的海嘯這麼嚴重，我們現在大家都團結在一起，朝野都是一心的，包括各行各業，不要又在裡面製造一些衝突跟擾民的事情。老實講，這裡面還有歧視跟身分檢查問題，都真的很不好啦！我們今天都是解決問題哦！每個東西都很具體哦！好不好？好好檢討一下。","如果是在93年3月1號以前的可以排除，我會努力，當然你如果要修法，我們立法委員可以來提案。可是我覺得如果你的心還是軟的，行政部門本身也應該做，我們蠻期待的啊！陸委會行政部門自己提案啊！留下一個心還是軟的有幫人民在服務的政務官。當官都是一時的啦！留下的不要是污名而是美名好不好？還有機會，我們趕快幫陸配跟臺灣人解決問題，好不好？謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","下一位請鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員。","蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員。","楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員。","蔡易餘委員、蔡易餘委員、蔡易餘委員。","鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員。","所有登記發言委員都已經發言完畢，詢答結束。委員質詢時要求提供的相關資料或以書面答復者，請相關機關儘速送交個別委員及本會。","本次會議到此結束，現在散會，謝謝大家。","散會（13時24分）","� See Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444（1969）.詳參：林子儀，言論自由與內亂罪─明顯而立即危險原則之闡釋，收於：氏著，言論自由與新聞自由，1999年9月，頁226以下。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-7","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","莊瑞雄","林倩綺","王義川","沈發惠","王鴻薇","吳思瑤","翁曉玲","陳培瑜","傅崐萁","許宇甄","羅智強","張啓楷"],"page_start":187,"meetingDate":["2025-04-09"],"gazette_id":"1143501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143501_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員、數位發展部部長、教育\n部部長、大陸委員會主任委員、內政部移民署署長、國家安全局局長及國家人權委員會率所屬相\n關單位列席就「言論自由不在？界線誰說了算！國家介入特定政治言論之法律邊界」進行專題報\n告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143501_00004"}}}