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\"start\": 471.14, \"end\": 471.841, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 471.841, \"end\": 472.301, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 472.301, \"end\": 472.321, \"score\": 0.069}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,546 --> 00:00:09,389\n謝謝主席我們有請陳部長陳部長委員好\n\n2\n00:00:18,991 --> 00:00:45,352\n部長好部長你有去過阿里山嗎去過那你就任之後有再上去過嗎沒有一直想要去那希望下次你可以排個時間再去到訪阿里山因為它被紐約時報評選為世界排名第19名值得造訪的地方這是台灣之光還超越了日本但是我要請你看一個數據這個讓人家看起來覺得很心酸我們的這個台灣之光\n\n3\n00:00:48,394 --> 00:00:55,483\n世界應該來造訪的據點結果他的旅客數從10年前有276萬現在到113年下降到只有89萬9千多\n\n4\n00:01:04,065 --> 00:01:19,816\n這個組組少了180萬我覺得這個對於一個我們台灣國際知名的觀光景點來講這個人數少的太多你知不知道這個下降的幅度這麼大的原因是什麼少了哪一個國家的觀光客\n\n5\n00:01:21,005 --> 00:01:34,022\n報告委員他有一段時間是因為他那個鐵路停駛所以他下降的速度是相當的快那之後慢慢在恢復當中那您在說的那個國家我是不曉得但我猜委員要講的應該是對岸\n\n6\n00:01:36,733 --> 00:02:04,956\n應該是因為過去你如果比較10年前跟10年後10年前當時台灣我們的旅遊人數可以破千萬那這個對岸大概貢獻了大概300多萬所以就是少了它像這個去年整個我們雖然要一直提振其他國家來的觀光但是呢少了入客之後這是不爭的事實足足也是少掉了300萬所以你的千萬目標沒有辦法達成你的700加300大概就是可以破\n\n7\n00:02:06,037 --> 00:02:15,656\n那我只是讓部長可以看到就是說雖然兩岸現在有一些政治因素的干擾但是我們可以賺人民幣應該不是罪過吧\n\n8\n00:02:16,536 --> 00:02:46,216\n人民幣有罪嗎沒有啊沒罪沒罪嘛對不對那所以在入客開放這個部分特別是現在整個關稅高關稅的議題對大家的經濟衝擊很大那觀光是無煙囪的工業所以他其實是可以為我們現在就是普遍包括未來這個服務業都會大受影響如果說我們有辦法可以打一劑強心針在這個過程當中去穩住我們的觀光客的人數那這一個方向\n\n9\n00:02:46,816 --> 00:03:13,119\n我不曉得為什麼你們要一直堅持反對到現在應該不是你的問題交通部沒有反對過交通部都沒有反對嘛那是陸委會一直在擋啊也不是啦其實是兩岸應該要有序的去溝通這件事情那目前設定就是小兩會因為過去也是透過小兩會在溝通那目前台灣的小兩會我所知道的是我們已經跟對岸表達想要溝通的意願但是對岸目前還沒回覆我們\n\n10\n00:03:13,732 --> 00:03:33,751\n那有一種情況是一定要透過小兩會嗎如果對岸他想要組團我們就讓他來了呢就讓第一個團就開始成型然後事後我們再回過頭針對兩岸硬要協商的議題再慢慢談不行嗎因為方法有很多種但是當你只堅持只能這樣的時候路就走不通啊\n\n11\n00:03:34,710 --> 00:03:53,624\n其實方法很多種啊是看我們要不要釋放出彈性而已啊但是報告委員過去陸客來台的人數很多不過我們也看到了一些問題當然啊現在的問題是很少也產生的問題啊是也產生的問題但我們也顧慮的到一件事就是說他們的旅客來台灣也必須要安全所以很多的安全問題包含保險的問題我們兩岸要先談好\n\n12\n00:03:56,286 --> 00:04:12,684\n但是這個坦白講部長我們兩岸的溝通交流不是說首次啦都已經有經驗了所以其實那個所謂的問題其實也不是什麼大問題這個其實大家都知道我只是要提醒說當日本當新加坡\n\n13\n00:04:13,385 --> 00:04:35,763\n他們其實是一直持續的開放的時候我們去阻擋路客他們就往日本跑往新加坡跑賺的是他們的錢那我們這邊就白白損失我們家一向很可憐我們想多賣一點茶葉給路客沒有辦法我們想多賣一點伴手禮沒有辦法阿里山的觀光我們希望有人可以來提振但是最喜歡去阿里山的坦白講是路客\n\n14\n00:04:36,403 --> 00:05:04,369\n因為他們在課本裡面都有教阿里山所以他們嚮往要去阿里山但是現在你看竹竹少掉這麼多人對阿里山的觀光來講的確是衝擊我也知道其實你不是全責單位啦這個是更上層的國安單位他們的意見會主導這整個政策只是我希望說交通部你可以站在你們交通部的立場去思考多開放這個旅客來台對我們是越有利越開放也是越安全我是\n\n15\n00:05:05,489 --> 00:05:32,072\n贊成這樣的一個思維另外一個最後我想要跟這個部長討論的是既然嘉義縣這個阿里山是國際知名地標那從高鐵到這個進到阿里山的他相關的這個鐵道軌道的建設其實很重要那最近嘉義市市長黃明慧市長一直在提一個議題就是嘉義的輕軌一直是被排除那這個部分呢這個這個表你看得很清楚就是說\n\n16\n00:05:32,632 --> 00:05:52,840\n在整個高鐵的連外軌道系統現在是獨落嘉義嘉義是沒有到現在沒有啟動但是他的那個所有的廊道都已經規劃了那這個部分問題要怎麼解部長報告委員不是沒有規劃現在我們也有補助了一筆款項給地方政府也就是嘉義市政府做可行性的評估\n\n17\n00:05:53,840 --> 00:06:11,832\n他的評估的結論裡面沒有去提到一點所有的捷運系統基本上都有中央跟地方負擔的金額但是嘉義市政府並沒有提出來中央跟負擔的金額我們需要他提這個部分才有辦法再往前推進這個問題不在交通部這個問題其實嘉義市政府要趕快把這個東西提出來\n\n18\n00:06:13,053 --> 00:06:32,973\n那因為其實過去你可以看到有關於連外軌道系統交通部都是主政單位這件事情我覺得大家不要只是公文的往返我前幾天才遇到黃明慧市長他又當面跟我提了一件這件事情那我是不是可以請這個部長因為中央部會主管機關你們的高度還是比較高\n\n19\n00:06:33,393 --> 00:06:57,765\n是不是你們可以邀集嘉義縣市政府針對這件事情大家可以有一個面對面的討論就是說到底我們現在不要就卡在這邊事實上因為嘉義縣市他們共同擁有這個阿里山又是我們對外的台灣之光我覺得把它的所有的這些軌道弄好然後交通更便利對我們提振我們的觀光其實是更有效益的我是不是可以請部長你由交通部來召開一個會議\n\n20\n00:07:00,987 --> 00:07:16,706\n就邀請嘉義縣市就是他們的首長大家坐下來針對這個議題大家是不是可以面對面的好好談一談你們現在都是公文王範沒有面對面你沒有跟那個黃市長好好的坐下來談過這件事吧\n\n21\n00:07:17,598 --> 00:07:33,053\n沒有還沒有那因為你是部長嘛你是中央部會主管機關是不是您可以約這個黃市長還有約翁章良縣長大家坐下來針對這件事情接下來到底可以怎麼樣的處理大家面對面溝通一下談一下可以嗎\n\n22\n00:07:33,513 --> 00:07:52,321\n我們再來安排好啊好不好那就拜託部長我覺得這件事情是關乎整個嘉義的發展就不要只是因為說這個經費要怎麼分攤然後就停留在公文的階段好不好我們一起把這件事情促成然後讓整個嘉義縣整個阿里山的觀光發展未來也會更好好謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7546\t9389\t謝謝主席 我們有請陳部長陳部長委員好\n18991\t45352\t部長好 部長你有去過阿里山嗎去過那你就任之後有再上去過嗎沒有 一直想要去那希望下次你可以排個時間再去到訪阿里山因為它被紐約時報評選為世界排名第19名值得造訪的地方這是台灣之光還超越了日本但是我要請你看一個數據這個讓人家看起來覺得很心酸我們的這個台灣之光\n48394\t55483\t世界應該來造訪的據點結果他的旅客數從10年前有276萬現在到113年下降到只有89萬9千多\n64065\t79816\t這個組組少了180萬我覺得這個對於一個我們台灣國際知名的觀光景點來講這個人數少的太多你知不知道這個下降的幅度這麼大的原因是什麼少了哪一個國家的觀光客\n81005\t94022\t報告委員他有一段時間是因為他那個鐵路停駛所以他下降的速度是相當的快那之後慢慢在恢復當中那您在說的那個國家我是不曉得但我猜委員要講的應該是對岸\n96733\t124956\t應該是因為過去你如果比較10年前跟10年後10年前當時台灣我們的旅遊人數可以破千萬那這個對岸大概貢獻了大概300多萬所以就是少了它像這個去年整個我們雖然要一直提振其他國家來的觀光但是呢少了入客之後這是不爭的事實足足也是少掉了300萬所以你的千萬目標沒有辦法達成你的700加300大概就是可以破\n126037\t135656\t那我只是讓部長可以看到就是說雖然兩岸現在有一些政治因素的干擾但是我們可以賺人民幣應該不是罪過吧\n136536\t166216\t人民幣有罪嗎沒有啊沒罪沒罪嘛對不對那所以在入客開放這個部分特別是現在整個關稅高關稅的議題對大家的經濟衝擊很大那觀光是無煙囪的工業所以他其實是可以為我們現在就是普遍包括未來這個服務業都會大受影響如果說我們有辦法可以打一劑強心針在這個過程當中去穩住我們的觀光客的人數那這一個方向\n166816\t193119\t我不曉得為什麼你們要一直堅持反對到現在應該不是你的問題交通部沒有反對過交通部都沒有反對嘛那是陸委會一直在擋啊也不是啦其實是兩岸應該要有序的去溝通這件事情那目前設定就是小兩會因為過去也是透過小兩會在溝通那目前台灣的小兩會我所知道的是我們已經跟對岸表達想要溝通的意願但是對岸目前還沒回覆我們\n193732\t213751\t那有一種情況是一定要透過小兩會嗎如果對岸他想要組團我們就讓他來了呢就讓第一個團就開始成型然後事後我們再回過頭針對兩岸硬要協商的議題再慢慢談不行嗎因為方法有很多種但是當你只堅持只能這樣的時候路就走不通啊\n214710\t233624\t其實方法很多種啊是看我們要不要釋放出彈性而已啊但是報告委員過去陸客來台的人數很多不過我們也看到了一些問題當然啊現在的問題是很少也產生的問題啊是也產生的問題但我們也顧慮的到一件事就是說他們的旅客來台灣也必須要安全所以很多的安全問題包含保險的問題我們兩岸要先談好\n236286\t252684\t但是這個坦白講部長我們兩岸的溝通交流不是說首次啦都已經有經驗了所以其實那個所謂的問題其實也不是什麼大問題這個其實大家都知道我只是要提醒說當日本當新加坡\n253385\t275763\t他們其實是一直持續的開放的時候我們去阻擋路客他們就往日本跑往新加坡跑賺的是他們的錢那我們這邊就白白損失我們家一向很可憐我們想多賣一點茶葉給路客沒有辦法我們想多賣一點伴手禮沒有辦法阿里山的觀光我們希望有人可以來提振但是最喜歡去阿里山的坦白講是路客\n276403\t304369\t因為他們在課本裡面都有教阿里山所以他們嚮往要去阿里山但是現在你看竹竹少掉這麼多人對阿里山的觀光來講的確是衝擊我也知道其實你不是全責單位啦這個是更上層的國安單位他們的意見會主導這整個政策只是我希望說交通部你可以站在你們交通部的立場去思考多開放這個旅客來台對我們是越有利越開放也是越安全我是\n305489\t332072\t贊成這樣的一個思維另外一個最後我想要跟這個部長討論的是既然嘉義縣這個阿里山是國際知名地標那從高鐵到這個進到阿里山的他相關的這個鐵道軌道的建設其實很重要那最近嘉義市市長黃明慧市長一直在提一個議題就是嘉義的輕軌一直是被排除那這個部分呢這個這個表你看得很清楚就是說\n332632\t352840\t在整個高鐵的連外軌道系統現在是獨落嘉義嘉義是沒有到現在沒有啟動但是他的那個所有的廊道都已經規劃了那這個部分問題要怎麼解部長報告委員不是沒有規劃現在我們也有補助了一筆款項給地方政府也就是嘉義市政府做可行性的評估\n353840\t371832\t他的評估的結論裡面沒有去提到一點所有的捷運系統基本上都有中央跟地方負擔的金額但是嘉義市政府並沒有提出來中央跟負擔的金額我們需要他提這個部分才有辦法再往前推進這個問題不在交通部這個問題其實嘉義市政府要趕快把這個東西提出來\n373053\t392973\t那因為其實過去你可以看到有關於連外軌道系統交通部都是主政單位這件事情我覺得大家不要只是公文的往返我前幾天才遇到黃明慧市長他又當面跟我提了一件這件事情那我是不是可以請這個部長因為中央部會主管機關你們的高度還是比較高\n393393\t417765\t是不是你們可以邀集嘉義縣市政府針對這件事情大家可以有一個面對面的討論就是說到底我們現在不要就卡在這邊事實上因為嘉義縣市他們共同擁有這個阿里山又是我們對外的台灣之光我覺得把它的所有的這些軌道弄好然後交通更便利對我們提振我們的觀光其實是更有效益的我是不是可以請部長你由交通部來召開一個會議\n420987\t436706\t就邀請嘉義縣市就是他們的首長大家坐下來針對這個議題大家是不是可以面對面的好好談一談你們現在都是公文王範沒有面對面你沒有跟那個黃市長好好的坐下來談過這件事吧\n437598\t453053\t沒有還沒有那因為你是部長嘛你是中央部會主管機關是不是您可以約這個黃市長還有約翁章良縣長大家坐下來針對這件事情接下來到底可以怎麼樣的處理大家面對面溝通一下談一下可以嗎\n453513\t472321\t我們再來安排好啊好不好那就拜託部長我覺得這件事情是關乎整個嘉義的發展就不要只是因為說這個經費要怎麼分攤然後就停留在公文的階段好不好我們一起把這件事情促成然後讓整個嘉義縣整個阿里山的觀光發展未來也會更好好謝謝部長\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們有請陳部長陳部長委員好\n部長好 部長你有去過阿里山嗎去過那你就任之後有再上去過嗎沒有 一直想要去那希望下次你可以排個時間再去到訪阿里山因為它被紐約時報評選為世界排名第19名值得造訪的地方這是台灣之光還超越了日本但是我要請你看一個數據這個讓人家看起來覺得很心酸我們的這個台灣之光\n世界應該來造訪的據點結果他的旅客數從10年前有276萬現在到113年下降到只有89萬9千多\n這個組組少了180萬我覺得這個對於一個我們台灣國際知名的觀光景點來講這個人數少的太多你知不知道這個下降的幅度這麼大的原因是什麼少了哪一個國家的觀光客\n報告委員他有一段時間是因為他那個鐵路停駛所以他下降的速度是相當的快那之後慢慢在恢復當中那您在說的那個國家我是不曉得但我猜委員要講的應該是對岸\n應該是因為過去你如果比較10年前跟10年後10年前當時台灣我們的旅遊人數可以破千萬那這個對岸大概貢獻了大概300多萬所以就是少了它像這個去年整個我們雖然要一直提振其他國家來的觀光但是呢少了入客之後這是不爭的事實足足也是少掉了300萬所以你的千萬目標沒有辦法達成你的700加300大概就是可以破\n那我只是讓部長可以看到就是說雖然兩岸現在有一些政治因素的干擾但是我們可以賺人民幣應該不是罪過吧\n人民幣有罪嗎沒有啊沒罪沒罪嘛對不對那所以在入客開放這個部分特別是現在整個關稅高關稅的議題對大家的經濟衝擊很大那觀光是無煙囪的工業所以他其實是可以為我們現在就是普遍包括未來這個服務業都會大受影響如果說我們有辦法可以打一劑強心針在這個過程當中去穩住我們的觀光客的人數那這一個方向\n我不曉得為什麼你們要一直堅持反對到現在應該不是你的問題交通部沒有反對過交通部都沒有反對嘛那是陸委會一直在擋啊也不是啦其實是兩岸應該要有序的去溝通這件事情那目前設定就是小兩會因為過去也是透過小兩會在溝通那目前台灣的小兩會我所知道的是我們已經跟對岸表達想要溝通的意願但是對岸目前還沒回覆我們\n那有一種情況是一定要透過小兩會嗎如果對岸他想要組團我們就讓他來了呢就讓第一個團就開始成型然後事後我們再回過頭針對兩岸硬要協商的議題再慢慢談不行嗎因為方法有很多種但是當你只堅持只能這樣的時候路就走不通啊\n其實方法很多種啊是看我們要不要釋放出彈性而已啊但是報告委員過去陸客來台的人數很多不過我們也看到了一些問題當然啊現在的問題是很少也產生的問題啊是也產生的問題但我們也顧慮的到一件事就是說他們的旅客來台灣也必須要安全所以很多的安全問題包含保險的問題我們兩岸要先談好\n但是這個坦白講部長我們兩岸的溝通交流不是說首次啦都已經有經驗了所以其實那個所謂的問題其實也不是什麼大問題這個其實大家都知道我只是要提醒說當日本當新加坡\n他們其實是一直持續的開放的時候我們去阻擋路客他們就往日本跑往新加坡跑賺的是他們的錢那我們這邊就白白損失我們家一向很可憐我們想多賣一點茶葉給路客沒有辦法我們想多賣一點伴手禮沒有辦法阿里山的觀光我們希望有人可以來提振但是最喜歡去阿里山的坦白講是路客\n因為他們在課本裡面都有教阿里山所以他們嚮往要去阿里山但是現在你看竹竹少掉這麼多人對阿里山的觀光來講的確是衝擊我也知道其實你不是全責單位啦這個是更上層的國安單位他們的意見會主導這整個政策只是我希望說交通部你可以站在你們交通部的立場去思考多開放這個旅客來台對我們是越有利越開放也是越安全我是\n贊成這樣的一個思維另外一個最後我想要跟這個部長討論的是既然嘉義縣這個阿里山是國際知名地標那從高鐵到這個進到阿里山的他相關的這個鐵道軌道的建設其實很重要那最近嘉義市市長黃明慧市長一直在提一個議題就是嘉義的輕軌一直是被排除那這個部分呢這個這個表你看得很清楚就是說\n在整個高鐵的連外軌道系統現在是獨落嘉義嘉義是沒有到現在沒有啟動但是他的那個所有的廊道都已經規劃了那這個部分問題要怎麼解部長報告委員不是沒有規劃現在我們也有補助了一筆款項給地方政府也就是嘉義市政府做可行性的評估\n他的評估的結論裡面沒有去提到一點所有的捷運系統基本上都有中央跟地方負擔的金額但是嘉義市政府並沒有提出來中央跟負擔的金額我們需要他提這個部分才有辦法再往前推進這個問題不在交通部這個問題其實嘉義市政府要趕快把這個東西提出來\n那因為其實過去你可以看到有關於連外軌道系統交通部都是主政單位這件事情我覺得大家不要只是公文的往返我前幾天才遇到黃明慧市長他又當面跟我提了一件這件事情那我是不是可以請這個部長因為中央部會主管機關你們的高度還是比較高\n是不是你們可以邀集嘉義縣市政府針對這件事情大家可以有一個面對面的討論就是說到底我們現在不要就卡在這邊事實上因為嘉義縣市他們共同擁有這個阿里山又是我們對外的台灣之光我覺得把它的所有的這些軌道弄好然後交通更便利對我們提振我們的觀光其實是更有效益的我是不是可以請部長你由交通部來召開一個會議\n就邀請嘉義縣市就是他們的首長大家坐下來針對這個議題大家是不是可以面對面的好好談一談你們現在都是公文王範沒有面對面你沒有跟那個黃市長好好的坐下來談過這件事吧\n沒有還沒有那因為你是部長嘛你是中央部會主管機關是不是您可以約這個黃市長還有約翁章良縣長大家坐下來針對這件事情接下來到底可以怎麼樣的處理大家面對面溝通一下談一下可以嗎\n我們再來安排好啊好不好那就拜託部長我覺得這件事情是關乎整個嘉義的發展就不要只是因為說這個經費要怎麼分攤然後就停留在公文的階段好不好我們一起把這件事情促成然後讓整個嘉義縣整個阿里山的觀光發展未來也會更好好謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.546 --> 00:09.389\n謝謝主席我們有請陳部長陳部長委員好\n\n00:18.991 --> 00:45.352\n部長好部長你有去過阿里山嗎去過那你就任之後有再上去過嗎沒有一直想要去那希望下次你可以排個時間再去到訪阿里山因為它被紐約時報評選為世界排名第19名值得造訪的地方這是台灣之光還超越了日本但是我要請你看一個數據這個讓人家看起來覺得很心酸我們的這個台灣之光\n\n00:48.394 --> 00:55.483\n世界應該來造訪的據點結果他的旅客數從10年前有276萬現在到113年下降到只有89萬9千多\n\n01:04.065 --> 01:19.816\n這個組組少了180萬我覺得這個對於一個我們台灣國際知名的觀光景點來講這個人數少的太多你知不知道這個下降的幅度這麼大的原因是什麼少了哪一個國家的觀光客\n\n01:21.005 --> 01:34.022\n報告委員他有一段時間是因為他那個鐵路停駛所以他下降的速度是相當的快那之後慢慢在恢復當中那您在說的那個國家我是不曉得但我猜委員要講的應該是對岸\n\n01:36.733 --> 02:04.956\n應該是因為過去你如果比較10年前跟10年後10年前當時台灣我們的旅遊人數可以破千萬那這個對岸大概貢獻了大概300多萬所以就是少了它像這個去年整個我們雖然要一直提振其他國家來的觀光但是呢少了入客之後這是不爭的事實足足也是少掉了300萬所以你的千萬目標沒有辦法達成你的700加300大概就是可以破\n\n02:06.037 --> 02:15.656\n那我只是讓部長可以看到就是說雖然兩岸現在有一些政治因素的干擾但是我們可以賺人民幣應該不是罪過吧\n\n02:16.536 --> 02:46.216\n人民幣有罪嗎沒有啊沒罪沒罪嘛對不對那所以在入客開放這個部分特別是現在整個關稅高關稅的議題對大家的經濟衝擊很大那觀光是無煙囪的工業所以他其實是可以為我們現在就是普遍包括未來這個服務業都會大受影響如果說我們有辦法可以打一劑強心針在這個過程當中去穩住我們的觀光客的人數那這一個方向\n\n02:46.816 --> 03:13.119\n我不曉得為什麼你們要一直堅持反對到現在應該不是你的問題交通部沒有反對過交通部都沒有反對嘛那是陸委會一直在擋啊也不是啦其實是兩岸應該要有序的去溝通這件事情那目前設定就是小兩會因為過去也是透過小兩會在溝通那目前台灣的小兩會我所知道的是我們已經跟對岸表達想要溝通的意願但是對岸目前還沒回覆我們\n\n03:13.732 --> 03:33.751\n那有一種情況是一定要透過小兩會嗎如果對岸他想要組團我們就讓他來了呢就讓第一個團就開始成型然後事後我們再回過頭針對兩岸硬要協商的議題再慢慢談不行嗎因為方法有很多種但是當你只堅持只能這樣的時候路就走不通啊\n\n03:34.710 --> 03:53.624\n其實方法很多種啊是看我們要不要釋放出彈性而已啊但是報告委員過去陸客來台的人數很多不過我們也看到了一些問題當然啊現在的問題是很少也產生的問題啊是也產生的問題但我們也顧慮的到一件事就是說他們的旅客來台灣也必須要安全所以很多的安全問題包含保險的問題我們兩岸要先談好\n\n03:56.286 --> 04:12.684\n但是這個坦白講部長我們兩岸的溝通交流不是說首次啦都已經有經驗了所以其實那個所謂的問題其實也不是什麼大問題這個其實大家都知道我只是要提醒說當日本當新加坡\n\n04:13.385 --> 04:35.763\n他們其實是一直持續的開放的時候我們去阻擋路客他們就往日本跑往新加坡跑賺的是他們的錢那我們這邊就白白損失我們家一向很可憐我們想多賣一點茶葉給路客沒有辦法我們想多賣一點伴手禮沒有辦法阿里山的觀光我們希望有人可以來提振但是最喜歡去阿里山的坦白講是路客\n\n04:36.403 --> 05:04.369\n因為他們在課本裡面都有教阿里山所以他們嚮往要去阿里山但是現在你看竹竹少掉這麼多人對阿里山的觀光來講的確是衝擊我也知道其實你不是全責單位啦這個是更上層的國安單位他們的意見會主導這整個政策只是我希望說交通部你可以站在你們交通部的立場去思考多開放這個旅客來台對我們是越有利越開放也是越安全我是\n\n05:05.489 --> 05:32.072\n贊成這樣的一個思維另外一個最後我想要跟這個部長討論的是既然嘉義縣這個阿里山是國際知名地標那從高鐵到這個進到阿里山的他相關的這個鐵道軌道的建設其實很重要那最近嘉義市市長黃明慧市長一直在提一個議題就是嘉義的輕軌一直是被排除那這個部分呢這個這個表你看得很清楚就是說\n\n05:32.632 --> 05:52.840\n在整個高鐵的連外軌道系統現在是獨落嘉義嘉義是沒有到現在沒有啟動但是他的那個所有的廊道都已經規劃了那這個部分問題要怎麼解部長報告委員不是沒有規劃現在我們也有補助了一筆款項給地方政府也就是嘉義市政府做可行性的評估\n\n05:53.840 --> 06:11.832\n他的評估的結論裡面沒有去提到一點所有的捷運系統基本上都有中央跟地方負擔的金額但是嘉義市政府並沒有提出來中央跟負擔的金額我們需要他提這個部分才有辦法再往前推進這個問題不在交通部這個問題其實嘉義市政府要趕快把這個東西提出來\n\n06:13.053 --> 06:32.973\n那因為其實過去你可以看到有關於連外軌道系統交通部都是主政單位這件事情我覺得大家不要只是公文的往返我前幾天才遇到黃明慧市長他又當面跟我提了一件這件事情那我是不是可以請這個部長因為中央部會主管機關你們的高度還是比較高\n\n06:33.393 --> 06:57.765\n是不是你們可以邀集嘉義縣市政府針對這件事情大家可以有一個面對面的討論就是說到底我們現在不要就卡在這邊事實上因為嘉義縣市他們共同擁有這個阿里山又是我們對外的台灣之光我覺得把它的所有的這些軌道弄好然後交通更便利對我們提振我們的觀光其實是更有效益的我是不是可以請部長你由交通部來召開一個會議\n\n07:00.987 --> 07:16.706\n就邀請嘉義縣市就是他們的首長大家坐下來針對這個議題大家是不是可以面對面的好好談一談你們現在都是公文王範沒有面對面你沒有跟那個黃市長好好的坐下來談過這件事吧\n\n07:17.598 --> 07:33.053\n沒有還沒有那因為你是部長嘛你是中央部會主管機關是不是您可以約這個黃市長還有約翁章良縣長大家坐下來針對這件事情接下來到底可以怎麼樣的處理大家面對面溝通一下談一下可以嗎\n\n07:33.513 --> 07:52.321\n我們再來安排好啊好不好那就拜託部長我覺得這件事情是關乎整個嘉義的發展就不要只是因為說這個經費要怎麼分攤然後就停留在公文的階段好不好我們一起把這件事情促成然後讓整個嘉義縣整個阿里山的觀光發展未來也會更好好謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.546,"end":9.389,"text":"謝謝主席 我們有請陳部長陳部長委員好"},{"start":18.991,"end":45.352,"text":"部長好 部長你有去過阿里山嗎去過那你就任之後有再上去過嗎沒有 一直想要去那希望下次你可以排個時間再去到訪阿里山因為它被紐約時報評選為世界排名第19名值得造訪的地方這是台灣之光還超越了日本但是我要請你看一個數據這個讓人家看起來覺得很心酸我們的這個台灣之光"},{"start":48.394,"end":55.483,"text":"世界應該來造訪的據點結果他的旅客數從10年前有276萬現在到113年下降到只有89萬9千多"},{"start":64.065,"end":79.816,"text":"這個組組少了180萬我覺得這個對於一個我們台灣國際知名的觀光景點來講這個人數少的太多你知不知道這個下降的幅度這麼大的原因是什麼少了哪一個國家的觀光客"},{"start":81.005,"end":94.022,"text":"報告委員他有一段時間是因為他那個鐵路停駛所以他下降的速度是相當的快那之後慢慢在恢復當中那您在說的那個國家我是不曉得但我猜委員要講的應該是對岸"},{"start":96.733,"end":124.956,"text":"應該是因為過去你如果比較10年前跟10年後10年前當時台灣我們的旅遊人數可以破千萬那這個對岸大概貢獻了大概300多萬所以就是少了它像這個去年整個我們雖然要一直提振其他國家來的觀光但是呢少了入客之後這是不爭的事實足足也是少掉了300萬所以你的千萬目標沒有辦法達成你的700加300大概就是可以破"},{"start":126.037,"end":135.656,"text":"那我只是讓部長可以看到就是說雖然兩岸現在有一些政治因素的干擾但是我們可以賺人民幣應該不是罪過吧"},{"start":136.536,"end":166.216,"text":"人民幣有罪嗎沒有啊沒罪沒罪嘛對不對那所以在入客開放這個部分特別是現在整個關稅高關稅的議題對大家的經濟衝擊很大那觀光是無煙囪的工業所以他其實是可以為我們現在就是普遍包括未來這個服務業都會大受影響如果說我們有辦法可以打一劑強心針在這個過程當中去穩住我們的觀光客的人數那這一個方向"},{"start":166.816,"end":193.119,"text":"我不曉得為什麼你們要一直堅持反對到現在應該不是你的問題交通部沒有反對過交通部都沒有反對嘛那是陸委會一直在擋啊也不是啦其實是兩岸應該要有序的去溝通這件事情那目前設定就是小兩會因為過去也是透過小兩會在溝通那目前台灣的小兩會我所知道的是我們已經跟對岸表達想要溝通的意願但是對岸目前還沒回覆我們"},{"start":193.732,"end":213.751,"text":"那有一種情況是一定要透過小兩會嗎如果對岸他想要組團我們就讓他來了呢就讓第一個團就開始成型然後事後我們再回過頭針對兩岸硬要協商的議題再慢慢談不行嗎因為方法有很多種但是當你只堅持只能這樣的時候路就走不通啊"},{"start":214.71,"end":233.624,"text":"其實方法很多種啊是看我們要不要釋放出彈性而已啊但是報告委員過去陸客來台的人數很多不過我們也看到了一些問題當然啊現在的問題是很少也產生的問題啊是也產生的問題但我們也顧慮的到一件事就是說他們的旅客來台灣也必須要安全所以很多的安全問題包含保險的問題我們兩岸要先談好"},{"start":236.286,"end":252.684,"text":"但是這個坦白講部長我們兩岸的溝通交流不是說首次啦都已經有經驗了所以其實那個所謂的問題其實也不是什麼大問題這個其實大家都知道我只是要提醒說當日本當新加坡"},{"start":253.385,"end":275.763,"text":"他們其實是一直持續的開放的時候我們去阻擋路客他們就往日本跑往新加坡跑賺的是他們的錢那我們這邊就白白損失我們家一向很可憐我們想多賣一點茶葉給路客沒有辦法我們想多賣一點伴手禮沒有辦法阿里山的觀光我們希望有人可以來提振但是最喜歡去阿里山的坦白講是路客"},{"start":276.403,"end":304.369,"text":"因為他們在課本裡面都有教阿里山所以他們嚮往要去阿里山但是現在你看竹竹少掉這麼多人對阿里山的觀光來講的確是衝擊我也知道其實你不是全責單位啦這個是更上層的國安單位他們的意見會主導這整個政策只是我希望說交通部你可以站在你們交通部的立場去思考多開放這個旅客來台對我們是越有利越開放也是越安全我是"},{"start":305.489,"end":332.072,"text":"贊成這樣的一個思維另外一個最後我想要跟這個部長討論的是既然嘉義縣這個阿里山是國際知名地標那從高鐵到這個進到阿里山的他相關的這個鐵道軌道的建設其實很重要那最近嘉義市市長黃明慧市長一直在提一個議題就是嘉義的輕軌一直是被排除那這個部分呢這個這個表你看得很清楚就是說"},{"start":332.632,"end":352.84,"text":"在整個高鐵的連外軌道系統現在是獨落嘉義嘉義是沒有到現在沒有啟動但是他的那個所有的廊道都已經規劃了那這個部分問題要怎麼解部長報告委員不是沒有規劃現在我們也有補助了一筆款項給地方政府也就是嘉義市政府做可行性的評估"},{"start":353.84,"end":371.832,"text":"他的評估的結論裡面沒有去提到一點所有的捷運系統基本上都有中央跟地方負擔的金額但是嘉義市政府並沒有提出來中央跟負擔的金額我們需要他提這個部分才有辦法再往前推進這個問題不在交通部這個問題其實嘉義市政府要趕快把這個東西提出來"},{"start":373.053,"end":392.973,"text":"那因為其實過去你可以看到有關於連外軌道系統交通部都是主政單位這件事情我覺得大家不要只是公文的往返我前幾天才遇到黃明慧市長他又當面跟我提了一件這件事情那我是不是可以請這個部長因為中央部會主管機關你們的高度還是比較高"},{"start":393.393,"end":417.765,"text":"是不是你們可以邀集嘉義縣市政府針對這件事情大家可以有一個面對面的討論就是說到底我們現在不要就卡在這邊事實上因為嘉義縣市他們共同擁有這個阿里山又是我們對外的台灣之光我覺得把它的所有的這些軌道弄好然後交通更便利對我們提振我們的觀光其實是更有效益的我是不是可以請部長你由交通部來召開一個會議"},{"start":420.987,"end":436.706,"text":"就邀請嘉義縣市就是他們的首長大家坐下來針對這個議題大家是不是可以面對面的好好談一談你們現在都是公文王範沒有面對面你沒有跟那個黃市長好好的坐下來談過這件事吧"},{"start":437.598,"end":453.053,"text":"沒有還沒有那因為你是部長嘛你是中央部會主管機關是不是您可以約這個黃市長還有約翁章良縣長大家坐下來針對這件事情接下來到底可以怎麼樣的處理大家面對面溝通一下談一下可以嗎"},{"start":453.513,"end":472.321,"text":"我們再來安排好啊好不好那就拜託部長我覺得這件事情是關乎整個嘉義的發展就不要只是因為說這個經費要怎麼分攤然後就停留在公文的階段好不好我們一起把這件事情促成然後讓整個嘉義縣整個阿里山的觀光發展未來也會更好好謝謝部長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1229,"blocks":[["王委員育敏：（13時41分）謝謝主席，我們有請陳部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["王委員育敏：部長好。部長，你去過阿里山嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：去過。"],["王委員育敏：去過喔？那你就任之後再上去過嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：沒有。"],["王委員育敏：沒有喔？"],["陳部長世凱：一直想要去。"],["王委員育敏：好，那希望你下一次可以排個時間再到訪阿里山。"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["王委員育敏：因為它被紐約時報評選為世界排名第19名值得造訪的地方，所以是臺灣之光，還超越了日本。但是我要請你看一個數據，這個讓人看起來覺得很心酸。我們的臺灣之光、世界應該來造訪的據點，結果它的旅客數從10年前有276萬人，現在、到了113年，下降到只有八十九萬九千多人，足足少了180萬人，我覺得對於一個我們臺灣國際知名的觀光景點來講，這個人數少得太多！你知不知道下降幅度這麼大的原因是什麼？少了哪一個國家的觀光客？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，有一段時間是因為鐵路停駛，所以下降速度是相當地快，但之後慢慢在恢復當中。而您在說的那個國家我是不曉得，但我猜委員要講的應該是對岸。"],["王委員育敏：嗯！應該是喔！因為如果比較過去、十年前跟十年後，十年前，當時我們臺灣的旅遊人數可以破千萬人，對岸大概貢獻了三百多萬人，所以少了它……像去年，我們雖然一直要提振其他國家來的觀光，但是少了陸客之後，這是不爭的事實，也足足少掉300萬人，所以你的千萬目標沒有辦法達成，若700萬加上300萬大概就可以破1,000萬啦！我只是要讓部長可以看到，雖然兩岸現在有一些政治因素的干擾，但是我們可以賺人民幣應該不是罪過吧？！人民幣有罪嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：沒有啊！沒罪。"],["王委員育敏：沒罪嘛！對不對？"],["陳部長世凱：對。"],["王委員育敏：所以在陸客開放這個部分，特別是現在整個高關稅議題對大家的經濟衝擊很大，而觀光是無煙囪的工業，其實除了現在普遍受到影響，包括未來的服務業也都會大受影響。如果我們有辦法打一劑強心針，在這個過程當中穩住我們的觀光客人數，我不曉得這個方向你們為什麼要一直堅持反對到現在。應該不是你的問題，是不是陸委會……"],["陳部長世凱：交通部沒有反對過。"],["王委員育敏：交通部都沒有反對嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：是的，沒錯。"],["王委員育敏：那是陸委會一直在擋啊！"],["陳部長世凱：也不是啦！其實是兩岸應該要有序地溝通這件事情，目前的設定就是小兩會，因為過去也是透過小兩會溝通。關於目前臺灣的小兩會，我所知道的是我們已經跟對岸表達想要溝通的意願，但是對岸目前還沒回復我們。"],["王委員育敏：那麼有一種情況一定要透過小兩會嗎？如果對岸想要組團，我們就讓他們來呢？也就是讓第一個團開始成行，事後再回過頭針對兩岸應該協商的議題慢慢談，不行嗎？因為方法有很多種，但是當你堅持只能這樣的時候，路就走不通啊！其實方法有很多種啊！是看我們要不要釋放出彈性而已啊！"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，過去陸客來臺人數很多，不過我們也看到一些問題……"],["王委員育敏：當然啊！但現在的問題是很少，也產生了問題啊！"],["陳部長世凱：是，也產生了問題，但我們也顧慮到一件事，就是他們的旅客來臺灣也必須安全……"],["王委員育敏：當然啊！"],["陳部長世凱：所以針對很多安全問題，包含保險問題在內，兩岸要先談好，談好之後再去……"],["王委員育敏：當然啊！但是坦白講，部長，我們兩岸的溝通交流不是首次啦！都已經有經驗了，所謂的問題其實也不是什麼大問題，這個大家都知道。我只是要提醒，當日本、當新加坡其實一直持續地開放的時候，我們阻擋陸客，他們就往日本跑、往新加坡跑，賺錢的是他們，那我們這邊就白白損失啊！我們嘉義鄉親很可憐啊！我們想多賣一點茶葉給陸客啊！沒有辦法，我們想多賣一點伴手禮，沒有辦法。對於阿里山的觀光，我們也希望有人可以來提振，而最喜歡去阿里山的坦白講是陸客，因為在他們的課本裡面都有教到阿里山，所以他們嚮往去阿里山。但是你看現在足足少掉這麼多人，對阿里山的觀光來講的確是衝擊。我也知道其實你不是權責單位啦！是更上層的國安單位，他們的意見會主導整個政策，只是我希望交通部可以站在你們交通部的立場思考，多開放旅客來臺對我們是愈有利，愈開放也是愈安全，我是贊成這樣的思維。","另外一點，我最後想跟部長討論的是，既然嘉義縣的阿里山是國際知名地標，從高鐵進到阿里山的相關鐵道、軌道建設其實很重要。但最近嘉義市黃敏惠市長一直在提一個議題，就是嘉義市輕軌一直被排除。這個部分從這個表看得很清楚，就是說整個高鐵聯外軌道系統現在是獨漏嘉義！嘉義市沒有，到現在都沒有啟動，但是它的所有廊道都已經規劃了。在這個部分，問題要怎麼解，部長？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，不是沒有規劃，現在我們補助了一筆款項給地方政府，也就是嘉義市政府做可行性評估。它的評估結論裡面沒有提到一點：所有捷運系統基本上都有中央跟地方負擔的金額，但是嘉義市政府並沒有提出中央跟地方負擔的金額，而我們需要它提出這個部分，才有辦法再往前推進。這個問題不在交通部，其實是嘉義市政府要趕快把這個東西提出來。"],["王委員育敏：好。","其實過去可以看到，關於聯外軌道系統，交通部都是主政單位，這件事情我覺得大家不要只是公文的往返。我前幾天才遇到黃敏惠市長，她又當面跟我提了一遍這件事情，那我是不是可以請部長協助？因為作為中央部會主管機關，你們的高度還是比較高，是不是可以由你們邀集嘉義縣市政府，針對這件事情，大家面對面地討論到底現在怎麼做，不要又卡在這邊。事實上，因為嘉義縣市共同擁有阿里山，又是我們對外的臺灣之光，我覺得應該把所有這些軌道弄好、讓交通更便利，對提振我們的觀光其實是更有效益的。我是不是可以請部長協助，由交通部召開一場會議，邀請嘉義縣市的首長，大家坐下來，針對這個議題，大家是不是可以面對面地好好談一談？你們現在都是公文往返，沒有面對面。你沒有跟黃市長好好坐下來談過這件事吧？"],["陳部長世凱：對，沒有欸！"],["王委員育敏：還沒有？因為你是部長、你是中央部會主管機關，那您是不是可以約黃市長還有翁章梁縣長，大家坐下來，針對這件事情接下來到底可以怎麼樣處理面對面溝通一下、談一下，可以嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：我們再來安排。"],["王委員育敏：好啊！好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["王委員育敏：那就拜託部長。我覺得這件事情關乎整個嘉義的發展，就不要只因為經費要怎麼分攤就停留在公文的階段，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["王委員育敏：我們一起把這件事情促成，然後整個嘉義縣、整個阿里山的觀光發展未來也會更好。"],["陳部長世凱：好。"],["王委員育敏：謝謝部長。"],["陳部長世凱：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。","鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐委員不在。","鍾佳濱、鍾佳濱、鍾佳濱委員不在。","王鴻薇、王鴻薇、王鴻薇委員不在。","蔡易餘、蔡易餘、蔡易餘委員不在。","請陳冠廷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":160,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-6","speakers":["許智傑","洪孟楷","李昆澤","何欣純","黃健豪","林俊憲","魯明哲","廖先翔","陳素月","林國成","陳雪生","徐富癸","邱若華","蔡其昌","游顥","楊瓊瓔","黃建賓","莊瑞雄","盧縣一","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","王育敏","陳冠廷","劉建國","王義川","林倩綺"],"page_start":61,"meetingDate":["2025-04-09"],"gazette_id":"1143601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143601_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就「如何推動國際旅客來台觀光」及「提升國際機場量能與服務品質\n及增闢國際線航點航班之作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、處理113年度中央政府總預算附\n屬單位預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計46案；三、審查人民請願文書共12案","agenda_id":"1143601_00002"}}}