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\"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"創\"}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 147.087, \"end\": 147.227, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"私\", \"start\": 147.227, \"end\": 147.427, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"房\", \"start\": 147.427, \"end\": 147.668, \"score\": 0.711}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 147.668, \"end\": 148.088, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 148.088, \"end\": 148.248, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 148.248, \"end\": 148.449, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 148.449, \"end\": 148.589, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 148.589, \"end\": 148.789, \"score\": 0.764}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 148.789, \"end\": 148.869, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 148.869, \"end\": 148.969, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 148.969, \"end\": 148.989, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"見\"}]}, {\"start\": 149.67, \"end\": 168.333, \"text\": 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{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 830.024, \"end\": 830.084, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 830.084, \"end\": 830.104, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,069 --> 00:00:18,474\n由於那個議事錄之前已經宣讀完畢尚未確定我們現在先確認議事錄請問各位委員就上次會議議事錄有錯誤或遺漏沒有的話議事錄確定那請陳委員好謝謝主席那有請司法院副秘書長謝謝麻煩副秘書長\n\n2\n00:00:23,753 --> 00:00:41,940\n副秘書長早安我想國人對於今天的主題都非常關心那我相信剛剛在前一個委員質詢當中你們說都有相關進度那我想我們後續就一起關心那我還是要回到我自己的主題我想跟您討論關於創意司法案裡面創意司法案裡面我們看到可以修法的部分還有\n\n3\n00:00:42,860 --> 00:01:10,026\n报导者在去年做了一系列的报导告诉我们在整个检调侦办过程当中就法律上的工具还有很多法律的见解可能让现场第一线的工作人员需要更多的支持我们来看一下报导者的案件里面第一个部分是谈到同一个案件里面针对数位时代的犯罪形态在法院见解的部分哪一个部分呢就是当时被害人位于台中\n\n4\n00:01:10,766 --> 00:01:24,419\n那於是檢察官就向台中地院申請羈押可是台中地院卻認為行為人持有影片的時候那個人他正在新北所以呢台中沒有管轄權他們認為必須要移轉或是主託給新北檢察官來申請羈押\n\n5\n00:01:28,543 --> 00:01:43,573\n這個部分當然我不知道當時是透過了什麼樣的溝通陳檢察官後來還是在台中辦了這個案子但是我想知道司法院在目前這一類型的案件有什麼後續的態度因為我相信這不會是第一個案子好這邊請簡單回應一下\n\n6\n00:01:47,165 --> 00:02:11,030\n那個有關於那個管轄那個規定呢其實刑事訴訟法都有那個相關的那個規定那現在可能就是各法院之間就是對於對於譬如說什麼是結果地因為如果說是犯罪行為地的話或者是這個被告他的駐居所這個都比較不會有爭議那就是說什麼叫做那個犯罪結果所發生的地方可能就是有那個大家所採那個見解\n\n7\n00:02:12,150 --> 00:02:28,989\n有不太那個意思好那可是喔如果在過往比較單純的案件我覺得比較好去歸納但是我覺得網路時代數位時代的犯罪樣態確實已經很不一樣了那從這個陳祥偉檢察官所辦這個創意私房案的案例我們可以看見\n\n8\n00:02:29,670 --> 00:02:48,333\n那如果大家還是踩著過去的見解沒有討論的空間跟可能性我認為會對第一線檢察官造成很大的阻礙那我想你剛剛的說法聽起來就是大家可以溝通可以討論雖然有各自的見解但是我比較希望你們在這件事情上還是要有相關的態度對於第一線工作人員的支持好嗎\n\n9\n00:02:49,254 --> 00:03:16,766\n謝謝委員那我再補充一下這是因為隨著就是我們現在那個資訊的那個犯罪因為資訊的犯罪他事實上在電腦裡面已經不是跑到一個行為去殺人或是去傷害那所以就是說這種新興的那個議題確實我們法院這個部分的我們會因為學界已經就是有相關的那個討論蠻多的那我想我們這個部分我們也會就是說進一步的那個加強就是對於法官的那個賠利然後大家尋求共識\n\n10\n00:03:17,426 --> 00:03:31,273\n太好了謝謝好謝謝對於法官的賠利尋求共識讓檢調人員他們有覺得獲得支持接下來要溝通的部分是關於立法工具的部分這個部分我還是想要跟司法院討論看看也想知道你們的見解在這份報導當中再次提到刑事訴訟法\n\n11\n00:03:34,956 --> 00:03:52,811\n101之1,因为被告有反复实施犯行之余而得羁押的要件,在这条当中并没有把儿少性剥削防治条例犯罪列入范围,但事实上在制造儿少性影片的这些犯罪人行为人极有可能高度\n\n12\n00:03:54,533 --> 00:04:08,085\n反覆犯案那導致於呢這個檢察官認為在相關的法律上應該要與時俱進同時他在偵辦的過程當中他也認為被告有篡證的可能為由去申請羈押可是\n\n13\n00:04:09,166 --> 00:04:23,995\n實務上的案例就是成功性不高因為法官常常認為網路犯罪的人只有網路交流現實生活中互不認識所以不符合目前訂定的羈押要件一樣是法官的見解這邊可不可以請你們回應一下\n\n14\n00:04:33,956 --> 00:04:52,432\n那個跟委員報告那個確實目前的那個101-1的那個反覆實施之餘這個要件的這個羈押要件確實沒有把這個新剝削這邊歸納進去那這個部分我想是一個政策的一個形式政策的一個決定啦那我覺得謝謝委員那個垂詢這個部分我們也會帶回去演講\n\n15\n00:04:53,172 --> 00:04:58,975\n那我想不要只有研議我自己其實已經有提出修法版本了而且也已經都連署完成了我們當時的訴求就是希望可以強化兒少保護網而且我們有具體的作為所以我自己也提了修法那我當然不確定這個會期我們有沒有機會討論到這麼具體的事情\n\n16\n00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:37,608\n可是我認為這件事情你們應該可以提早做出準備不管是跟專家學者演繹或者是實務上的見解第一線的工作人員的意見的收集我相信這件事情絕對可以加大保護兒少網這個部分可以嗎可以謝謝好謝謝喔那我們就期待你們後續的進度喔好那這邊謝謝那我們要請警政署好謝謝副秘書長謝謝警政署有來對不對謝謝刑事警察局副局長\n\n17\n00:05:41,866 --> 00:06:10,075\n那一樣同一篇報導我要先說在這篇報導裡面他有提到以上這一段文字我就簡單說一下檢察官說他在三年前開始辦這個案子的時候其實是沒有人想要辦的不想辦的原因並不是檢察官偷懶推卸責任而是這樣大規模的案子而且新型態的數位網路犯罪其實相關的案例在過往可能沒有辦法太多參考的案例而且他說當時加害者被害者都分散全台\n\n18\n00:06:10,655 --> 00:06:26,505\n一半就要長期抗爭檢察官要找專業熱情可以長時間投入的人來幫忙可是他所面對第一的困境就是來幫忙的這些警察同仁在這一類型的案件上並沒有績效\n\n19\n00:06:27,486 --> 00:06:42,816\n也就是沒有加分啦那要把這麼多人被害人集結起來必須要花費非常多的人力跟心力只有靠使命感硬撐下去是很辛苦的那當然最後檢察官是用組織犯罪條例去起訴給原警們相關的誘因這對警察來說非常的重要\n\n20\n00:06:46,258 --> 00:07:05,209\n那來自警政署的你我不知道你怎麼看這件事情我必須要說我非常佩服這個檢察官他最後決定採用組織犯罪防治條例讓相關協助辦案的警察人員獲得了相關的獎勵但是如果沒有這個檢察官想到我不知道這個案子還要拖多久\n\n21\n00:07:05,669 --> 00:07:31,223\n在相關第一線的辦案我們來看其實警政署你們在2017年曾經有執行過一個叫做青春專案我投影片這邊有相關的數字這個青春專案裡面呢你們當時調整的績效你們跟警察說只要相關案件可以以兒少性剝削防治條例第36條第36條到第40條移送就可以評比和分所以當時各縣市都大力的查緝喔\n\n22\n00:07:31,823 --> 00:07:54,705\n当时你看2017年查器数字来到将近3000可是到了2018年却说相关的案子检查体系怀疑滥行移送所以到了2018年评比的方法又改了说相关的案件必须要报请检察官指挥并且深压嫌犯警察才能核分\n\n23\n00:07:55,926 --> 00:08:20,332\n這都是在報導裡面相關的檢察官所指出的問題結果門檻提升之後呢請警政署這邊看一下到了2018年就落到了七八百件而已可是你會想說搞不好是犯罪案例變少了嗎並沒有在衛福部近年所通報的數字當中其實網路兒少性剝削的通報數量是越來越多\n\n24\n00:08:21,132 --> 00:08:38,941\n但是因為沒有好的獎勵的工具其實可能讓我們的員警沒有動力去做這件事情不知道身為長官的您怎麼看這件事情有沒有機會我們一起來突破這個困境跟委員報告我想創意吃訪我們九大隊\n\n25\n00:08:39,901 --> 00:08:54,992\n配合警察官去偵辦這個案件有有我知道大家都非常的配合非常的辛苦所以有關績效的部分不管是村安或是青春莊案那警政署的立場就是讓偵辦犯罪常態化\n\n26\n00:08:55,973 --> 00:09:17,834\n那在整個蔣城的部分我想在這個部分我們回去來研究怎麼樣蔣城的方式來提高他們的誘因就是偵辦刑案的誘因那因為青春莊案的部分在過去裡面在兒少這個部分確實像2017到2018那後來慢慢都讓它已經變成常態化\n\n27\n00:09:18,414 --> 00:09:45,900\n我沒有意見對於常態化當然是好事可是因為如果它沒有相關績效相對於現在的網路詐騙它是有績效加分的或者是販毒的部分應該也是有的可是網路而上性剝削這個部分它應該可能是沒有的我不確定但看起來是這樣它就是如同您所說的它是一個常態性所以可能對基層員警來說當他每天有這麼多的事情要處理的時候可能這件事情的優先度就不會這麼高\n\n28\n00:09:47,100 --> 00:10:07,236\n是這回去我們會研究有關我們有沒有機會在一個月後收到您研議的相關報告或是開啟相關討論的報告好我們一個月好謝謝秦政署那我再跟您講另外一個事情除了我剛剛說的績效之外目前的報案機制在這個報導裡面他有談他說當時有一個少女的母親去報警\n\n29\n00:10:08,797 --> 00:10:35,177\n然後呢在報警的當下在那個前後加害人繼續傳送訊息給這個少女說你去報警啊反正你抓不到我那根據我們了解之所以這個加害人敢這麼囂張就是因為其實地方員警基層派出所的同仁他們也許不具備有這樣子網路而上性剝削的偵辦能力所以他們在第一時間收到這樣的案例我相信有大部分基層同仁是不知道該怎麼辦的那\n\n30\n00:10:36,198 --> 00:10:55,912\n一樣我們不可以去責怪基層的同仁我們必須要問我們在面對這麼多層出不窮的網路而上性剝削的案件數量逐年增高的情況下我們到底可以怎麼辦這邊我有一個建議我想要請你們思考看看內政部也請思考看看基層的派出所不一定有這個專業可是可不可以用縣市\n\n31\n00:10:57,193 --> 00:11:20,300\n或是區域為中心去建立一個兒少性剝削的專責窗口由派出所收到案子之後他就把案子轉介出去他只留下一個簡單的記錄確實記錄我收到了然後我轉出去了而這個專責的窗口當然就會有專業的工作人員在裡頭他可以協助家長協助被害人第一時間獲得該有的資源跟支持\n\n32\n00:11:20,700 --> 00:11:34,946\n你覺得這個部分我們有沒有機會來完成或是開啟相關的討論因為這樣子不但會讓家長覺得安心被害人覺得安心我們也讓基層的員警知道我們並不是只加工作在他們身上但是卻沒有給予他們支持\n\n33\n00:11:35,868 --> 00:12:00,640\n跟委員報告就我在地方服務的經驗事實上兒少先剝削這樣的案件大部分我們都會轉接到婦幼隊所以婦幼隊是一個很大的窗口所有的案件比如說就我在地方服務的經驗比較矚目我一定是會交給婦幼隊來處理所以我想現行應該是有婦幼隊這個窗口那因為大部分的案件所有的案件\n\n34\n00:12:01,340 --> 00:12:20,069\n很多所以為什麼很多都是受理案件大部分都派出所但是我想這個部分只要是比如像這種創意私房有專業的案件現在是科徵的時代那科徵的時代大概三個月整個科徵的手法就變了所以我們刑事局在科徵的部分也不斷在普及這科徵教育\n\n35\n00:12:20,689 --> 00:12:44,661\n我當然知道現在有婦幼隊因為我有我知道但是我必須要說就婦幼隊來說他們除了這種網路而上性博學的案例之外還有更多是婦幼隊的業務範圍所以我剛在想的是在這麼多數位時代新型態犯罪而且數量層越來越高的情況下我認為我們真的有必要去研議一個專責的窗口跟單位當然您不用在這裡立刻承諾我可是我認為我們確實有開啟這個討論的必要好嗎\n\n36\n00:12:48,243 --> 00:13:16,628\n那我們辦公室也會持續追蹤喔所以我最後的結論要求就是我想要請司法院警政署就我今天的質詢相關的事項還有相關的報導所提到的困境在一個月內召開會議提出相關的因應那就算事情非常複雜跟龐雜沒有辦法在一個月內解決這是正常的但我希望我們可以開啟相關討論給我們書面報告還有就是請法務部警政署針對相關偵辦兒少性剝削案件的同仁合理的續講\n\n37\n00:13:17,708 --> 00:13:35,662\n那我相信這個名單你們應該是有的那這個合理續講的名單跟相關的機制我認為我們回過頭補應該是可以的不要讓基層的同仁在這些案件上疲於奔命但卻沒有得到該有的獎賞跟鼓勵好那這個進度我們也會跟你們追有沒有機會在一個月內完成續講名單回頭去追\n\n38\n00:13:37,969 --> 00:13:50,104\n回頭追續獎名單因為續獎有它的程序我們盡量好不好好那多久大概會多是多久在你們合理的程序時間當中續獎的話兩個月好不好好謝謝那我們會記錄下來謝謝謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n69\t18474\t由於那個議事錄之前已經宣讀完畢 尚未確定我們現在先確認議事錄請問各位委員 就上次會議議事錄有錯誤或遺漏沒有的話議事錄確定 那請陳委員好 謝謝主席 那有請司法院副秘書長 謝謝麻煩副秘書長\n23753\t41940\t副秘書長早安我想國人對於今天的主題都非常關心那我相信剛剛在前一個委員質詢當中你們說都有相關進度那我想我們後續就一起關心那我還是要回到我自己的主題我想跟您討論關於創意司法案裡面創意司法案裡面我們看到可以修法的部分還有\n42860\t70026\t报导者在去年做了一系列的报导告诉我们在整个检调侦办过程当中就法律上的工具还有很多法律的见解可能让现场第一线的工作人员需要更多的支持我们来看一下报导者的案件里面第一个部分是谈到同一个案件里面针对数位时代的犯罪形态在法院见解的部分哪一个部分呢就是当时被害人位于台中\n70766\t84419\t那於是檢察官就向台中地院申請羈押可是台中地院卻認為行為人持有影片的時候那個人他正在新北所以呢台中沒有管轄權他們認為必須要移轉或是主託給新北檢察官來申請羈押\n88543\t103573\t這個部分當然我不知道當時是透過了什麼樣的溝通陳檢察官後來還是在台中辦了這個案子但是我想知道司法院在目前這一類型的案件有什麼後續的態度因為我相信這不會是第一個案子好這邊請簡單回應一下\n107165\t131030\t那個 有關於那個管轄那個規定呢其實刑事訴訟法都有那個相關的那個規定那現在可能就是各法院之間就是對於對於譬如說什麼是結果地因為如果說是犯罪行為地的話或者是這個被告他的駐居所這個都比較不會有爭議那就是說什麼叫做那個犯罪結果所發生的地方可能就是有那個大家所採那個見解\n132150\t148989\t有不太那個意思好那可是喔如果在過往比較單純的案件我覺得比較好去歸納但是我覺得網路時代數位時代的犯罪樣態確實已經很不一樣了那從這個陳祥偉檢察官所辦這個創意私房案的案例我們可以看見\n149670\t168333\t那如果大家還是踩著過去的見解沒有討論的空間跟可能性我認為會對第一線檢察官造成很大的阻礙那我想你剛剛的說法聽起來就是大家可以溝通可以討論雖然有各自的見解但是我比較希望你們在這件事情上還是要有相關的態度對於第一線工作人員的支持好嗎\n169254\t196766\t謝謝委員那我再補充一下這是因為隨著就是我們現在那個資訊的那個犯罪因為資訊的犯罪他事實上在電腦裡面已經不是跑到一個行為去殺人或是去傷害那所以就是說這種新興的那個議題確實我們法院這個部分的我們會因為學界已經就是有相關的那個討論蠻多的那我想我們這個部分我們也會就是說進一步的那個加強就是對於法官的那個賠利然後大家尋求共識\n197426\t211273\t太好了謝謝好謝謝對於法官的賠利尋求共識讓檢調人員他們有覺得獲得支持接下來要溝通的部分是關於立法工具的部分這個部分我還是想要跟司法院討論看看也想知道你們的見解在這份報導當中再次提到刑事訴訟法\n214956\t232811\t101之1,因为被告有反复实施犯行之余而得羁押的要件,在这条当中并没有把儿少性剥削防治条例犯罪列入范围,但事实上在制造儿少性影片的这些犯罪人行为人极有可能高度\n234533\t248085\t反覆犯案那導致於呢這個檢察官認為在相關的法律上應該要與時俱進同時他在偵辦的過程當中他也認為被告有篡證的可能為由去申請羈押可是\n249166\t263995\t實務上的案例就是成功性不高因為法官常常認為網路犯罪的人只有網路交流現實生活中互不認識所以不符合目前訂定的羈押要件一樣是法官的見解這邊可不可以請你們回應一下\n273956\t292432\t那個跟委員報告那個確實目前的那個101-1的那個反覆實施之餘這個要件的這個羈押要件確實沒有把這個新剝削這邊歸納進去那這個部分我想是一個政策的一個形式政策的一個決定啦那我覺得謝謝委員那個垂詢這個部分我們也會帶回去演講\n293172\t298975\t那我想不要只有研議我自己其實已經有提出修法版本了而且也已經都連署完成了我們當時的訴求就是希望可以強化兒少保護網而且我們有具體的作為所以我自己也提了修法那我當然不確定這個會期我們有沒有機會討論到這麼具體的事情\n310160\t337608\t可是我認為這件事情你們應該可以提早做出準備不管是跟專家學者演繹或者是實務上的見解第一線的工作人員的意見的收集我相信這件事情絕對可以加大保護兒少網這個部分 可以嗎可以 謝謝好 謝謝喔那我們就期待你們後續的進度喔好 那這邊謝謝那我們要請警政署好 謝謝副秘書長 謝謝警政署有來對不對 謝謝刑事警察局副局長\n341866\t370075\t那一樣同一篇報導我要先說在這篇報導裡面他有提到以上這一段文字我就簡單說一下檢察官說他在三年前開始辦這個案子的時候其實是沒有人想要辦的不想辦的原因並不是檢察官偷懶推卸責任而是這樣大規模的案子而且新型態的數位網路犯罪其實相關的案例在過往可能沒有辦法太多參考的案例而且他說當時加害者被害者都分散全台\n370655\t386505\t一半就要長期抗爭檢察官要找專業熱情可以長時間投入的人來幫忙可是他所面對第一的困境就是來幫忙的這些警察同仁在這一類型的案件上並沒有績效\n387486\t402816\t也就是沒有加分啦那要把這麼多人被害人集結起來必須要花費非常多的人力跟心力只有靠使命感硬撐下去是很辛苦的那當然最後檢察官是用組織犯罪條例去起訴給原警們相關的誘因這對警察來說非常的重要\n406258\t425209\t那來自警政署的你我不知道你怎麼看這件事情我必須要說我非常佩服這個檢察官他最後決定採用組織犯罪防治條例讓相關協助辦案的警察人員獲得了相關的獎勵但是如果沒有這個檢察官想到我不知道這個案子還要拖多久\n425669\t451223\t在相關第一線的辦案我們來看其實警政署你們在2017年曾經有執行過一個叫做青春專案我投影片這邊有相關的數字這個青春專案裡面呢你們當時調整的績效你們跟警察說只要相關案件可以以兒少性剝削防治條例第36條第36條到第40條移送就可以評比和分所以當時各縣市都大力的查緝喔\n451823\t474705\t当时你看2017年查器数字来到将近3000可是到了2018年却说相关的案子检查体系怀疑滥行移送所以到了2018年评比的方法又改了说相关的案件必须要报请检察官指挥并且深压嫌犯警察才能核分\n475926\t500332\t這都是在報導裡面相關的檢察官所指出的問題結果門檻提升之後呢請警政署這邊看一下到了2018年就落到了七八百件而已可是你會想說搞不好是犯罪案例變少了嗎並沒有在衛福部近年所通報的數字當中其實網路兒少性剝削的通報數量是越來越多\n501132\t518941\t但是因為沒有好的獎勵的工具其實可能讓我們的員警沒有動力去做這件事情不知道身為長官的您怎麼看這件事情有沒有機會我們一起來突破這個困境跟委員報告我想創意吃訪我們九大隊\n519901\t534992\t配合警察官去偵辦這個案件有有我知道大家都非常的配合非常的辛苦所以有關績效的部分不管是村安或是青春莊案那警政署的立場就是讓偵辦犯罪常態化\n535973\t557834\t那在整個蔣城的部分 我想在這個部分我們回去來研究怎麼樣蔣城的方式來提高他們的誘因 就是偵辦刑案的誘因那因為青春莊案的部分在過去裡面在兒少這個部分確實像2017到2018那後來慢慢都讓它已經變成常態化\n558414\t585900\t我沒有意見對於常態化當然是好事可是因為如果它沒有相關績效相對於現在的網路詐騙它是有績效加分的或者是販毒的部分應該也是有的可是網路而上性剝削這個部分它應該可能是沒有的我不確定但看起來是這樣它就是如同您所說的它是一個常態性所以可能對基層員警來說當他每天有這麼多的事情要處理的時候可能這件事情的優先度就不會這麼高\n587100\t607236\t是 這回去我們會研究有關我們有沒有機會在一個月後收到您研議的相關報告或是開啟相關討論的報告好 我們一個月好 謝謝秦政署那我再跟您講另外一個事情除了我剛剛說的績效之外目前的報案機制在這個報導裡面他有談他說當時有一個少女的母親去報警\n608797\t635177\t然後呢在報警的當下在那個前後加害人繼續傳送訊息給這個少女說你去報警啊反正你抓不到我那根據我們了解之所以這個加害人敢這麼囂張就是因為其實地方員警基層派出所的同仁他們也許不具備有這樣子網路而上性剝削的偵辦能力所以他們在第一時間收到這樣的案例我相信有大部分基層同仁是不知道該怎麼辦的那\n636198\t655912\t一樣我們不可以去責怪基層的同仁我們必須要問我們在面對這麼多層出不窮的網路而上性剝削的案件數量逐年增高的情況下我們到底可以怎麼辦這邊我有一個建議我想要請你們思考看看內政部也請思考看看基層的派出所不一定有這個專業可是可不可以用縣市\n657193\t680300\t或是區域為中心去建立一個兒少性剝削的專責窗口由派出所收到案子之後他就把案子轉介出去他只留下一個簡單的記錄確實記錄我收到了然後我轉出去了而這個專責的窗口當然就會有專業的工作人員在裡頭他可以協助家長協助被害人第一時間獲得該有的資源跟支持\n680700\t694946\t你覺得這個部分我們有沒有機會來完成或是開啟相關的討論因為這樣子不但會讓家長覺得安心被害人覺得安心我們也讓基層的員警知道我們並不是只加工作在他們身上但是卻沒有給予他們支持\n695868\t720640\t跟委員報告就我在地方服務的經驗事實上兒少先剝削這樣的案件大部分我們都會轉接到婦幼隊所以婦幼隊是一個很大的窗口所有的案件比如說就我在地方服務的經驗比較矚目我一定是會交給婦幼隊來處理所以我想現行應該是有婦幼隊這個窗口那因為大部分的案件所有的案件\n721340\t740069\t很多所以為什麼很多都是受理案件大部分都派出所但是我想這個部分只要是比如像這種創意私房有專業的案件現在是科徵的時代那科徵的時代大概三個月整個科徵的手法就變了所以我們刑事局在科徵的部分也不斷在普及這科徵教育\n740689\t764661\t我當然知道現在有婦幼隊因為我有我知道但是我必須要說就婦幼隊來說他們除了這種網路而上性博學的案例之外還有更多是婦幼隊的業務範圍所以我剛在想的是在這麼多數位時代新型態犯罪而且數量層越來越高的情況下我認為我們真的有必要去研議一個專責的窗口跟單位當然您不用在這裡立刻承諾我可是我認為我們確實有開啟這個討論的必要好嗎\n768243\t796628\t那我們辦公室也會持續追蹤喔所以我最後的結論要求就是我想要請司法院警政署就我今天的質詢相關的事項還有相關的報導所提到的困境在一個月內召開會議提出相關的因應那就算事情非常複雜跟龐雜沒有辦法在一個月內解決這是正常的但我希望我們可以開啟相關討論給我們書面報告還有就是請法務部警政署針對相關偵辦兒少性剝削案件的同仁合理的續講\n797708\t815662\t那我相信這個名單你們應該是有的那這個合理續講的名單跟相關的機制我認為我們回過頭補應該是可以的不要讓基層的同仁在這些案件上疲於奔命但卻沒有得到該有的獎賞跟鼓勵好那這個進度我們也會跟你們追有沒有機會在一個月內完成續講名單回頭去追\n817969\t830104\t回頭追續獎名單 因為續獎有它的程序我們盡量 好不好好 那多久 大概會多是多久在你們合理的程序時間當中續獎的話 兩個月好不好好 謝謝 那我們會記錄下來謝謝 謝謝主席\n","txt":"由於那個議事錄之前已經宣讀完畢 尚未確定我們現在先確認議事錄請問各位委員 就上次會議議事錄有錯誤或遺漏沒有的話議事錄確定 那請陳委員好 謝謝主席 那有請司法院副秘書長 謝謝麻煩副秘書長\n副秘書長早安我想國人對於今天的主題都非常關心那我相信剛剛在前一個委員質詢當中你們說都有相關進度那我想我們後續就一起關心那我還是要回到我自己的主題我想跟您討論關於創意司法案裡面創意司法案裡面我們看到可以修法的部分還有\n报导者在去年做了一系列的报导告诉我们在整个检调侦办过程当中就法律上的工具还有很多法律的见解可能让现场第一线的工作人员需要更多的支持我们来看一下报导者的案件里面第一个部分是谈到同一个案件里面针对数位时代的犯罪形态在法院见解的部分哪一个部分呢就是当时被害人位于台中\n那於是檢察官就向台中地院申請羈押可是台中地院卻認為行為人持有影片的時候那個人他正在新北所以呢台中沒有管轄權他們認為必須要移轉或是主託給新北檢察官來申請羈押\n這個部分當然我不知道當時是透過了什麼樣的溝通陳檢察官後來還是在台中辦了這個案子但是我想知道司法院在目前這一類型的案件有什麼後續的態度因為我相信這不會是第一個案子好這邊請簡單回應一下\n那個 有關於那個管轄那個規定呢其實刑事訴訟法都有那個相關的那個規定那現在可能就是各法院之間就是對於對於譬如說什麼是結果地因為如果說是犯罪行為地的話或者是這個被告他的駐居所這個都比較不會有爭議那就是說什麼叫做那個犯罪結果所發生的地方可能就是有那個大家所採那個見解\n有不太那個意思好那可是喔如果在過往比較單純的案件我覺得比較好去歸納但是我覺得網路時代數位時代的犯罪樣態確實已經很不一樣了那從這個陳祥偉檢察官所辦這個創意私房案的案例我們可以看見\n那如果大家還是踩著過去的見解沒有討論的空間跟可能性我認為會對第一線檢察官造成很大的阻礙那我想你剛剛的說法聽起來就是大家可以溝通可以討論雖然有各自的見解但是我比較希望你們在這件事情上還是要有相關的態度對於第一線工作人員的支持好嗎\n謝謝委員那我再補充一下這是因為隨著就是我們現在那個資訊的那個犯罪因為資訊的犯罪他事實上在電腦裡面已經不是跑到一個行為去殺人或是去傷害那所以就是說這種新興的那個議題確實我們法院這個部分的我們會因為學界已經就是有相關的那個討論蠻多的那我想我們這個部分我們也會就是說進一步的那個加強就是對於法官的那個賠利然後大家尋求共識\n太好了謝謝好謝謝對於法官的賠利尋求共識讓檢調人員他們有覺得獲得支持接下來要溝通的部分是關於立法工具的部分這個部分我還是想要跟司法院討論看看也想知道你們的見解在這份報導當中再次提到刑事訴訟法\n101之1,因为被告有反复实施犯行之余而得羁押的要件,在这条当中并没有把儿少性剥削防治条例犯罪列入范围,但事实上在制造儿少性影片的这些犯罪人行为人极有可能高度\n反覆犯案那導致於呢這個檢察官認為在相關的法律上應該要與時俱進同時他在偵辦的過程當中他也認為被告有篡證的可能為由去申請羈押可是\n實務上的案例就是成功性不高因為法官常常認為網路犯罪的人只有網路交流現實生活中互不認識所以不符合目前訂定的羈押要件一樣是法官的見解這邊可不可以請你們回應一下\n那個跟委員報告那個確實目前的那個101-1的那個反覆實施之餘這個要件的這個羈押要件確實沒有把這個新剝削這邊歸納進去那這個部分我想是一個政策的一個形式政策的一個決定啦那我覺得謝謝委員那個垂詢這個部分我們也會帶回去演講\n那我想不要只有研議我自己其實已經有提出修法版本了而且也已經都連署完成了我們當時的訴求就是希望可以強化兒少保護網而且我們有具體的作為所以我自己也提了修法那我當然不確定這個會期我們有沒有機會討論到這麼具體的事情\n可是我認為這件事情你們應該可以提早做出準備不管是跟專家學者演繹或者是實務上的見解第一線的工作人員的意見的收集我相信這件事情絕對可以加大保護兒少網這個部分 可以嗎可以 謝謝好 謝謝喔那我們就期待你們後續的進度喔好 那這邊謝謝那我們要請警政署好 謝謝副秘書長 謝謝警政署有來對不對 謝謝刑事警察局副局長\n那一樣同一篇報導我要先說在這篇報導裡面他有提到以上這一段文字我就簡單說一下檢察官說他在三年前開始辦這個案子的時候其實是沒有人想要辦的不想辦的原因並不是檢察官偷懶推卸責任而是這樣大規模的案子而且新型態的數位網路犯罪其實相關的案例在過往可能沒有辦法太多參考的案例而且他說當時加害者被害者都分散全台\n一半就要長期抗爭檢察官要找專業熱情可以長時間投入的人來幫忙可是他所面對第一的困境就是來幫忙的這些警察同仁在這一類型的案件上並沒有績效\n也就是沒有加分啦那要把這麼多人被害人集結起來必須要花費非常多的人力跟心力只有靠使命感硬撐下去是很辛苦的那當然最後檢察官是用組織犯罪條例去起訴給原警們相關的誘因這對警察來說非常的重要\n那來自警政署的你我不知道你怎麼看這件事情我必須要說我非常佩服這個檢察官他最後決定採用組織犯罪防治條例讓相關協助辦案的警察人員獲得了相關的獎勵但是如果沒有這個檢察官想到我不知道這個案子還要拖多久\n在相關第一線的辦案我們來看其實警政署你們在2017年曾經有執行過一個叫做青春專案我投影片這邊有相關的數字這個青春專案裡面呢你們當時調整的績效你們跟警察說只要相關案件可以以兒少性剝削防治條例第36條第36條到第40條移送就可以評比和分所以當時各縣市都大力的查緝喔\n当时你看2017年查器数字来到将近3000可是到了2018年却说相关的案子检查体系怀疑滥行移送所以到了2018年评比的方法又改了说相关的案件必须要报请检察官指挥并且深压嫌犯警察才能核分\n這都是在報導裡面相關的檢察官所指出的問題結果門檻提升之後呢請警政署這邊看一下到了2018年就落到了七八百件而已可是你會想說搞不好是犯罪案例變少了嗎並沒有在衛福部近年所通報的數字當中其實網路兒少性剝削的通報數量是越來越多\n但是因為沒有好的獎勵的工具其實可能讓我們的員警沒有動力去做這件事情不知道身為長官的您怎麼看這件事情有沒有機會我們一起來突破這個困境跟委員報告我想創意吃訪我們九大隊\n配合警察官去偵辦這個案件有有我知道大家都非常的配合非常的辛苦所以有關績效的部分不管是村安或是青春莊案那警政署的立場就是讓偵辦犯罪常態化\n那在整個蔣城的部分 我想在這個部分我們回去來研究怎麼樣蔣城的方式來提高他們的誘因 就是偵辦刑案的誘因那因為青春莊案的部分在過去裡面在兒少這個部分確實像2017到2018那後來慢慢都讓它已經變成常態化\n我沒有意見對於常態化當然是好事可是因為如果它沒有相關績效相對於現在的網路詐騙它是有績效加分的或者是販毒的部分應該也是有的可是網路而上性剝削這個部分它應該可能是沒有的我不確定但看起來是這樣它就是如同您所說的它是一個常態性所以可能對基層員警來說當他每天有這麼多的事情要處理的時候可能這件事情的優先度就不會這麼高\n是 這回去我們會研究有關我們有沒有機會在一個月後收到您研議的相關報告或是開啟相關討論的報告好 我們一個月好 謝謝秦政署那我再跟您講另外一個事情除了我剛剛說的績效之外目前的報案機制在這個報導裡面他有談他說當時有一個少女的母親去報警\n然後呢在報警的當下在那個前後加害人繼續傳送訊息給這個少女說你去報警啊反正你抓不到我那根據我們了解之所以這個加害人敢這麼囂張就是因為其實地方員警基層派出所的同仁他們也許不具備有這樣子網路而上性剝削的偵辦能力所以他們在第一時間收到這樣的案例我相信有大部分基層同仁是不知道該怎麼辦的那\n一樣我們不可以去責怪基層的同仁我們必須要問我們在面對這麼多層出不窮的網路而上性剝削的案件數量逐年增高的情況下我們到底可以怎麼辦這邊我有一個建議我想要請你們思考看看內政部也請思考看看基層的派出所不一定有這個專業可是可不可以用縣市\n或是區域為中心去建立一個兒少性剝削的專責窗口由派出所收到案子之後他就把案子轉介出去他只留下一個簡單的記錄確實記錄我收到了然後我轉出去了而這個專責的窗口當然就會有專業的工作人員在裡頭他可以協助家長協助被害人第一時間獲得該有的資源跟支持\n你覺得這個部分我們有沒有機會來完成或是開啟相關的討論因為這樣子不但會讓家長覺得安心被害人覺得安心我們也讓基層的員警知道我們並不是只加工作在他們身上但是卻沒有給予他們支持\n跟委員報告就我在地方服務的經驗事實上兒少先剝削這樣的案件大部分我們都會轉接到婦幼隊所以婦幼隊是一個很大的窗口所有的案件比如說就我在地方服務的經驗比較矚目我一定是會交給婦幼隊來處理所以我想現行應該是有婦幼隊這個窗口那因為大部分的案件所有的案件\n很多所以為什麼很多都是受理案件大部分都派出所但是我想這個部分只要是比如像這種創意私房有專業的案件現在是科徵的時代那科徵的時代大概三個月整個科徵的手法就變了所以我們刑事局在科徵的部分也不斷在普及這科徵教育\n我當然知道現在有婦幼隊因為我有我知道但是我必須要說就婦幼隊來說他們除了這種網路而上性博學的案例之外還有更多是婦幼隊的業務範圍所以我剛在想的是在這麼多數位時代新型態犯罪而且數量層越來越高的情況下我認為我們真的有必要去研議一個專責的窗口跟單位當然您不用在這裡立刻承諾我可是我認為我們確實有開啟這個討論的必要好嗎\n那我們辦公室也會持續追蹤喔所以我最後的結論要求就是我想要請司法院警政署就我今天的質詢相關的事項還有相關的報導所提到的困境在一個月內召開會議提出相關的因應那就算事情非常複雜跟龐雜沒有辦法在一個月內解決這是正常的但我希望我們可以開啟相關討論給我們書面報告還有就是請法務部警政署針對相關偵辦兒少性剝削案件的同仁合理的續講\n那我相信這個名單你們應該是有的那這個合理續講的名單跟相關的機制我認為我們回過頭補應該是可以的不要讓基層的同仁在這些案件上疲於奔命但卻沒有得到該有的獎賞跟鼓勵好那這個進度我們也會跟你們追有沒有機會在一個月內完成續講名單回頭去追\n回頭追續獎名單 因為續獎有它的程序我們盡量 好不好好 那多久 大概會多是多久在你們合理的程序時間當中續獎的話 兩個月好不好好 謝謝 那我們會記錄下來謝謝 謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.069 --> 00:18.474\n由於那個議事錄之前已經宣讀完畢尚未確定我們現在先確認議事錄請問各位委員就上次會議議事錄有錯誤或遺漏沒有的話議事錄確定那請陳委員好謝謝主席那有請司法院副秘書長謝謝麻煩副秘書長\n\n00:23.753 --> 00:41.940\n副秘書長早安我想國人對於今天的主題都非常關心那我相信剛剛在前一個委員質詢當中你們說都有相關進度那我想我們後續就一起關心那我還是要回到我自己的主題我想跟您討論關於創意司法案裡面創意司法案裡面我們看到可以修法的部分還有\n\n00:42.860 --> 01:10.026\n报导者在去年做了一系列的报导告诉我们在整个检调侦办过程当中就法律上的工具还有很多法律的见解可能让现场第一线的工作人员需要更多的支持我们来看一下报导者的案件里面第一个部分是谈到同一个案件里面针对数位时代的犯罪形态在法院见解的部分哪一个部分呢就是当时被害人位于台中\n\n01:10.766 --> 01:24.419\n那於是檢察官就向台中地院申請羈押可是台中地院卻認為行為人持有影片的時候那個人他正在新北所以呢台中沒有管轄權他們認為必須要移轉或是主託給新北檢察官來申請羈押\n\n01:28.543 --> 01:43.573\n這個部分當然我不知道當時是透過了什麼樣的溝通陳檢察官後來還是在台中辦了這個案子但是我想知道司法院在目前這一類型的案件有什麼後續的態度因為我相信這不會是第一個案子好這邊請簡單回應一下\n\n01:47.165 --> 02:11.030\n那個有關於那個管轄那個規定呢其實刑事訴訟法都有那個相關的那個規定那現在可能就是各法院之間就是對於對於譬如說什麼是結果地因為如果說是犯罪行為地的話或者是這個被告他的駐居所這個都比較不會有爭議那就是說什麼叫做那個犯罪結果所發生的地方可能就是有那個大家所採那個見解\n\n02:12.150 --> 02:28.989\n有不太那個意思好那可是喔如果在過往比較單純的案件我覺得比較好去歸納但是我覺得網路時代數位時代的犯罪樣態確實已經很不一樣了那從這個陳祥偉檢察官所辦這個創意私房案的案例我們可以看見\n\n02:29.670 --> 02:48.333\n那如果大家還是踩著過去的見解沒有討論的空間跟可能性我認為會對第一線檢察官造成很大的阻礙那我想你剛剛的說法聽起來就是大家可以溝通可以討論雖然有各自的見解但是我比較希望你們在這件事情上還是要有相關的態度對於第一線工作人員的支持好嗎\n\n02:49.254 --> 03:16.766\n謝謝委員那我再補充一下這是因為隨著就是我們現在那個資訊的那個犯罪因為資訊的犯罪他事實上在電腦裡面已經不是跑到一個行為去殺人或是去傷害那所以就是說這種新興的那個議題確實我們法院這個部分的我們會因為學界已經就是有相關的那個討論蠻多的那我想我們這個部分我們也會就是說進一步的那個加強就是對於法官的那個賠利然後大家尋求共識\n\n03:17.426 --> 03:31.273\n太好了謝謝好謝謝對於法官的賠利尋求共識讓檢調人員他們有覺得獲得支持接下來要溝通的部分是關於立法工具的部分這個部分我還是想要跟司法院討論看看也想知道你們的見解在這份報導當中再次提到刑事訴訟法\n\n03:34.956 --> 03:52.811\n101之1,因为被告有反复实施犯行之余而得羁押的要件,在这条当中并没有把儿少性剥削防治条例犯罪列入范围,但事实上在制造儿少性影片的这些犯罪人行为人极有可能高度\n\n03:54.533 --> 04:08.085\n反覆犯案那導致於呢這個檢察官認為在相關的法律上應該要與時俱進同時他在偵辦的過程當中他也認為被告有篡證的可能為由去申請羈押可是\n\n04:09.166 --> 04:23.995\n實務上的案例就是成功性不高因為法官常常認為網路犯罪的人只有網路交流現實生活中互不認識所以不符合目前訂定的羈押要件一樣是法官的見解這邊可不可以請你們回應一下\n\n04:33.956 --> 04:52.432\n那個跟委員報告那個確實目前的那個101-1的那個反覆實施之餘這個要件的這個羈押要件確實沒有把這個新剝削這邊歸納進去那這個部分我想是一個政策的一個形式政策的一個決定啦那我覺得謝謝委員那個垂詢這個部分我們也會帶回去演講\n\n04:53.172 --> 04:58.975\n那我想不要只有研議我自己其實已經有提出修法版本了而且也已經都連署完成了我們當時的訴求就是希望可以強化兒少保護網而且我們有具體的作為所以我自己也提了修法那我當然不確定這個會期我們有沒有機會討論到這麼具體的事情\n\n05:10.160 --> 05:37.608\n可是我認為這件事情你們應該可以提早做出準備不管是跟專家學者演繹或者是實務上的見解第一線的工作人員的意見的收集我相信這件事情絕對可以加大保護兒少網這個部分可以嗎可以謝謝好謝謝喔那我們就期待你們後續的進度喔好那這邊謝謝那我們要請警政署好謝謝副秘書長謝謝警政署有來對不對謝謝刑事警察局副局長\n\n05:41.866 --> 06:10.075\n那一樣同一篇報導我要先說在這篇報導裡面他有提到以上這一段文字我就簡單說一下檢察官說他在三年前開始辦這個案子的時候其實是沒有人想要辦的不想辦的原因並不是檢察官偷懶推卸責任而是這樣大規模的案子而且新型態的數位網路犯罪其實相關的案例在過往可能沒有辦法太多參考的案例而且他說當時加害者被害者都分散全台\n\n06:10.655 --> 06:26.505\n一半就要長期抗爭檢察官要找專業熱情可以長時間投入的人來幫忙可是他所面對第一的困境就是來幫忙的這些警察同仁在這一類型的案件上並沒有績效\n\n06:27.486 --> 06:42.816\n也就是沒有加分啦那要把這麼多人被害人集結起來必須要花費非常多的人力跟心力只有靠使命感硬撐下去是很辛苦的那當然最後檢察官是用組織犯罪條例去起訴給原警們相關的誘因這對警察來說非常的重要\n\n06:46.258 --> 07:05.209\n那來自警政署的你我不知道你怎麼看這件事情我必須要說我非常佩服這個檢察官他最後決定採用組織犯罪防治條例讓相關協助辦案的警察人員獲得了相關的獎勵但是如果沒有這個檢察官想到我不知道這個案子還要拖多久\n\n07:05.669 --> 07:31.223\n在相關第一線的辦案我們來看其實警政署你們在2017年曾經有執行過一個叫做青春專案我投影片這邊有相關的數字這個青春專案裡面呢你們當時調整的績效你們跟警察說只要相關案件可以以兒少性剝削防治條例第36條第36條到第40條移送就可以評比和分所以當時各縣市都大力的查緝喔\n\n07:31.823 --> 07:54.705\n当时你看2017年查器数字来到将近3000可是到了2018年却说相关的案子检查体系怀疑滥行移送所以到了2018年评比的方法又改了说相关的案件必须要报请检察官指挥并且深压嫌犯警察才能核分\n\n07:55.926 --> 08:20.332\n這都是在報導裡面相關的檢察官所指出的問題結果門檻提升之後呢請警政署這邊看一下到了2018年就落到了七八百件而已可是你會想說搞不好是犯罪案例變少了嗎並沒有在衛福部近年所通報的數字當中其實網路兒少性剝削的通報數量是越來越多\n\n08:21.132 --> 08:38.941\n但是因為沒有好的獎勵的工具其實可能讓我們的員警沒有動力去做這件事情不知道身為長官的您怎麼看這件事情有沒有機會我們一起來突破這個困境跟委員報告我想創意吃訪我們九大隊\n\n08:39.901 --> 08:54.992\n配合警察官去偵辦這個案件有有我知道大家都非常的配合非常的辛苦所以有關績效的部分不管是村安或是青春莊案那警政署的立場就是讓偵辦犯罪常態化\n\n08:55.973 --> 09:17.834\n那在整個蔣城的部分我想在這個部分我們回去來研究怎麼樣蔣城的方式來提高他們的誘因就是偵辦刑案的誘因那因為青春莊案的部分在過去裡面在兒少這個部分確實像2017到2018那後來慢慢都讓它已經變成常態化\n\n09:18.414 --> 09:45.900\n我沒有意見對於常態化當然是好事可是因為如果它沒有相關績效相對於現在的網路詐騙它是有績效加分的或者是販毒的部分應該也是有的可是網路而上性剝削這個部分它應該可能是沒有的我不確定但看起來是這樣它就是如同您所說的它是一個常態性所以可能對基層員警來說當他每天有這麼多的事情要處理的時候可能這件事情的優先度就不會這麼高\n\n09:47.100 --> 10:07.236\n是這回去我們會研究有關我們有沒有機會在一個月後收到您研議的相關報告或是開啟相關討論的報告好我們一個月好謝謝秦政署那我再跟您講另外一個事情除了我剛剛說的績效之外目前的報案機制在這個報導裡面他有談他說當時有一個少女的母親去報警\n\n10:08.797 --> 10:35.177\n然後呢在報警的當下在那個前後加害人繼續傳送訊息給這個少女說你去報警啊反正你抓不到我那根據我們了解之所以這個加害人敢這麼囂張就是因為其實地方員警基層派出所的同仁他們也許不具備有這樣子網路而上性剝削的偵辦能力所以他們在第一時間收到這樣的案例我相信有大部分基層同仁是不知道該怎麼辦的那\n\n10:36.198 --> 10:55.912\n一樣我們不可以去責怪基層的同仁我們必須要問我們在面對這麼多層出不窮的網路而上性剝削的案件數量逐年增高的情況下我們到底可以怎麼辦這邊我有一個建議我想要請你們思考看看內政部也請思考看看基層的派出所不一定有這個專業可是可不可以用縣市\n\n10:57.193 --> 11:20.300\n或是區域為中心去建立一個兒少性剝削的專責窗口由派出所收到案子之後他就把案子轉介出去他只留下一個簡單的記錄確實記錄我收到了然後我轉出去了而這個專責的窗口當然就會有專業的工作人員在裡頭他可以協助家長協助被害人第一時間獲得該有的資源跟支持\n\n11:20.700 --> 11:34.946\n你覺得這個部分我們有沒有機會來完成或是開啟相關的討論因為這樣子不但會讓家長覺得安心被害人覺得安心我們也讓基層的員警知道我們並不是只加工作在他們身上但是卻沒有給予他們支持\n\n11:35.868 --> 12:00.640\n跟委員報告就我在地方服務的經驗事實上兒少先剝削這樣的案件大部分我們都會轉接到婦幼隊所以婦幼隊是一個很大的窗口所有的案件比如說就我在地方服務的經驗比較矚目我一定是會交給婦幼隊來處理所以我想現行應該是有婦幼隊這個窗口那因為大部分的案件所有的案件\n\n12:01.340 --> 12:20.069\n很多所以為什麼很多都是受理案件大部分都派出所但是我想這個部分只要是比如像這種創意私房有專業的案件現在是科徵的時代那科徵的時代大概三個月整個科徵的手法就變了所以我們刑事局在科徵的部分也不斷在普及這科徵教育\n\n12:20.689 --> 12:44.661\n我當然知道現在有婦幼隊因為我有我知道但是我必須要說就婦幼隊來說他們除了這種網路而上性博學的案例之外還有更多是婦幼隊的業務範圍所以我剛在想的是在這麼多數位時代新型態犯罪而且數量層越來越高的情況下我認為我們真的有必要去研議一個專責的窗口跟單位當然您不用在這裡立刻承諾我可是我認為我們確實有開啟這個討論的必要好嗎\n\n12:48.243 --> 13:16.628\n那我們辦公室也會持續追蹤喔所以我最後的結論要求就是我想要請司法院警政署就我今天的質詢相關的事項還有相關的報導所提到的困境在一個月內召開會議提出相關的因應那就算事情非常複雜跟龐雜沒有辦法在一個月內解決這是正常的但我希望我們可以開啟相關討論給我們書面報告還有就是請法務部警政署針對相關偵辦兒少性剝削案件的同仁合理的續講\n\n13:17.708 --> 13:35.662\n那我相信這個名單你們應該是有的那這個合理續講的名單跟相關的機制我認為我們回過頭補應該是可以的不要讓基層的同仁在這些案件上疲於奔命但卻沒有得到該有的獎賞跟鼓勵好那這個進度我們也會跟你們追有沒有機會在一個月內完成續講名單回頭去追\n\n13:37.969 --> 13:50.104\n回頭追續獎名單因為續獎有它的程序我們盡量好不好好那多久大概會多是多久在你們合理的程序時間當中續獎的話兩個月好不好好謝謝那我們會記錄下來謝謝謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.069,"end":18.474,"text":"由於那個議事錄之前已經宣讀完畢 尚未確定我們現在先確認議事錄請問各位委員 就上次會議議事錄有錯誤或遺漏沒有的話議事錄確定 那請陳委員好 謝謝主席 那有請司法院副秘書長 謝謝麻煩副秘書長"},{"start":23.753,"end":41.94,"text":"副秘書長早安我想國人對於今天的主題都非常關心那我相信剛剛在前一個委員質詢當中你們說都有相關進度那我想我們後續就一起關心那我還是要回到我自己的主題我想跟您討論關於創意司法案裡面創意司法案裡面我們看到可以修法的部分還有"},{"start":42.86,"end":70.026,"text":"报导者在去年做了一系列的报导告诉我们在整个检调侦办过程当中就法律上的工具还有很多法律的见解可能让现场第一线的工作人员需要更多的支持我们来看一下报导者的案件里面第一个部分是谈到同一个案件里面针对数位时代的犯罪形态在法院见解的部分哪一个部分呢就是当时被害人位于台中"},{"start":70.766,"end":84.419,"text":"那於是檢察官就向台中地院申請羈押可是台中地院卻認為行為人持有影片的時候那個人他正在新北所以呢台中沒有管轄權他們認為必須要移轉或是主託給新北檢察官來申請羈押"},{"start":88.543,"end":103.573,"text":"這個部分當然我不知道當時是透過了什麼樣的溝通陳檢察官後來還是在台中辦了這個案子但是我想知道司法院在目前這一類型的案件有什麼後續的態度因為我相信這不會是第一個案子好這邊請簡單回應一下"},{"start":107.165,"end":131.03,"text":"那個 有關於那個管轄那個規定呢其實刑事訴訟法都有那個相關的那個規定那現在可能就是各法院之間就是對於對於譬如說什麼是結果地因為如果說是犯罪行為地的話或者是這個被告他的駐居所這個都比較不會有爭議那就是說什麼叫做那個犯罪結果所發生的地方可能就是有那個大家所採那個見解"},{"start":132.15,"end":148.989,"text":"有不太那個意思好那可是喔如果在過往比較單純的案件我覺得比較好去歸納但是我覺得網路時代數位時代的犯罪樣態確實已經很不一樣了那從這個陳祥偉檢察官所辦這個創意私房案的案例我們可以看見"},{"start":149.67,"end":168.333,"text":"那如果大家還是踩著過去的見解沒有討論的空間跟可能性我認為會對第一線檢察官造成很大的阻礙那我想你剛剛的說法聽起來就是大家可以溝通可以討論雖然有各自的見解但是我比較希望你們在這件事情上還是要有相關的態度對於第一線工作人員的支持好嗎"},{"start":169.254,"end":196.766,"text":"謝謝委員那我再補充一下這是因為隨著就是我們現在那個資訊的那個犯罪因為資訊的犯罪他事實上在電腦裡面已經不是跑到一個行為去殺人或是去傷害那所以就是說這種新興的那個議題確實我們法院這個部分的我們會因為學界已經就是有相關的那個討論蠻多的那我想我們這個部分我們也會就是說進一步的那個加強就是對於法官的那個賠利然後大家尋求共識"},{"start":197.426,"end":211.273,"text":"太好了謝謝好謝謝對於法官的賠利尋求共識讓檢調人員他們有覺得獲得支持接下來要溝通的部分是關於立法工具的部分這個部分我還是想要跟司法院討論看看也想知道你們的見解在這份報導當中再次提到刑事訴訟法"},{"start":214.956,"end":232.811,"text":"101之1,因为被告有反复实施犯行之余而得羁押的要件,在这条当中并没有把儿少性剥削防治条例犯罪列入范围,但事实上在制造儿少性影片的这些犯罪人行为人极有可能高度"},{"start":234.533,"end":248.085,"text":"反覆犯案那導致於呢這個檢察官認為在相關的法律上應該要與時俱進同時他在偵辦的過程當中他也認為被告有篡證的可能為由去申請羈押可是"},{"start":249.166,"end":263.995,"text":"實務上的案例就是成功性不高因為法官常常認為網路犯罪的人只有網路交流現實生活中互不認識所以不符合目前訂定的羈押要件一樣是法官的見解這邊可不可以請你們回應一下"},{"start":273.956,"end":292.432,"text":"那個跟委員報告那個確實目前的那個101-1的那個反覆實施之餘這個要件的這個羈押要件確實沒有把這個新剝削這邊歸納進去那這個部分我想是一個政策的一個形式政策的一個決定啦那我覺得謝謝委員那個垂詢這個部分我們也會帶回去演講"},{"start":293.172,"end":298.975,"text":"那我想不要只有研議我自己其實已經有提出修法版本了而且也已經都連署完成了我們當時的訴求就是希望可以強化兒少保護網而且我們有具體的作為所以我自己也提了修法那我當然不確定這個會期我們有沒有機會討論到這麼具體的事情"},{"start":310.16,"end":337.608,"text":"可是我認為這件事情你們應該可以提早做出準備不管是跟專家學者演繹或者是實務上的見解第一線的工作人員的意見的收集我相信這件事情絕對可以加大保護兒少網這個部分 可以嗎可以 謝謝好 謝謝喔那我們就期待你們後續的進度喔好 那這邊謝謝那我們要請警政署好 謝謝副秘書長 謝謝警政署有來對不對 謝謝刑事警察局副局長"},{"start":341.866,"end":370.075,"text":"那一樣同一篇報導我要先說在這篇報導裡面他有提到以上這一段文字我就簡單說一下檢察官說他在三年前開始辦這個案子的時候其實是沒有人想要辦的不想辦的原因並不是檢察官偷懶推卸責任而是這樣大規模的案子而且新型態的數位網路犯罪其實相關的案例在過往可能沒有辦法太多參考的案例而且他說當時加害者被害者都分散全台"},{"start":370.655,"end":386.505,"text":"一半就要長期抗爭檢察官要找專業熱情可以長時間投入的人來幫忙可是他所面對第一的困境就是來幫忙的這些警察同仁在這一類型的案件上並沒有績效"},{"start":387.486,"end":402.816,"text":"也就是沒有加分啦那要把這麼多人被害人集結起來必須要花費非常多的人力跟心力只有靠使命感硬撐下去是很辛苦的那當然最後檢察官是用組織犯罪條例去起訴給原警們相關的誘因這對警察來說非常的重要"},{"start":406.258,"end":425.209,"text":"那來自警政署的你我不知道你怎麼看這件事情我必須要說我非常佩服這個檢察官他最後決定採用組織犯罪防治條例讓相關協助辦案的警察人員獲得了相關的獎勵但是如果沒有這個檢察官想到我不知道這個案子還要拖多久"},{"start":425.669,"end":451.223,"text":"在相關第一線的辦案我們來看其實警政署你們在2017年曾經有執行過一個叫做青春專案我投影片這邊有相關的數字這個青春專案裡面呢你們當時調整的績效你們跟警察說只要相關案件可以以兒少性剝削防治條例第36條第36條到第40條移送就可以評比和分所以當時各縣市都大力的查緝喔"},{"start":451.823,"end":474.705,"text":"当时你看2017年查器数字来到将近3000可是到了2018年却说相关的案子检查体系怀疑滥行移送所以到了2018年评比的方法又改了说相关的案件必须要报请检察官指挥并且深压嫌犯警察才能核分"},{"start":475.926,"end":500.332,"text":"這都是在報導裡面相關的檢察官所指出的問題結果門檻提升之後呢請警政署這邊看一下到了2018年就落到了七八百件而已可是你會想說搞不好是犯罪案例變少了嗎並沒有在衛福部近年所通報的數字當中其實網路兒少性剝削的通報數量是越來越多"},{"start":501.132,"end":518.941,"text":"但是因為沒有好的獎勵的工具其實可能讓我們的員警沒有動力去做這件事情不知道身為長官的您怎麼看這件事情有沒有機會我們一起來突破這個困境跟委員報告我想創意吃訪我們九大隊"},{"start":519.901,"end":534.992,"text":"配合警察官去偵辦這個案件有有我知道大家都非常的配合非常的辛苦所以有關績效的部分不管是村安或是青春莊案那警政署的立場就是讓偵辦犯罪常態化"},{"start":535.973,"end":557.834,"text":"那在整個蔣城的部分 我想在這個部分我們回去來研究怎麼樣蔣城的方式來提高他們的誘因 就是偵辦刑案的誘因那因為青春莊案的部分在過去裡面在兒少這個部分確實像2017到2018那後來慢慢都讓它已經變成常態化"},{"start":558.414,"end":585.9,"text":"我沒有意見對於常態化當然是好事可是因為如果它沒有相關績效相對於現在的網路詐騙它是有績效加分的或者是販毒的部分應該也是有的可是網路而上性剝削這個部分它應該可能是沒有的我不確定但看起來是這樣它就是如同您所說的它是一個常態性所以可能對基層員警來說當他每天有這麼多的事情要處理的時候可能這件事情的優先度就不會這麼高"},{"start":587.1,"end":607.236,"text":"是 這回去我們會研究有關我們有沒有機會在一個月後收到您研議的相關報告或是開啟相關討論的報告好 我們一個月好 謝謝秦政署那我再跟您講另外一個事情除了我剛剛說的績效之外目前的報案機制在這個報導裡面他有談他說當時有一個少女的母親去報警"},{"start":608.797,"end":635.177,"text":"然後呢在報警的當下在那個前後加害人繼續傳送訊息給這個少女說你去報警啊反正你抓不到我那根據我們了解之所以這個加害人敢這麼囂張就是因為其實地方員警基層派出所的同仁他們也許不具備有這樣子網路而上性剝削的偵辦能力所以他們在第一時間收到這樣的案例我相信有大部分基層同仁是不知道該怎麼辦的那"},{"start":636.198,"end":655.912,"text":"一樣我們不可以去責怪基層的同仁我們必須要問我們在面對這麼多層出不窮的網路而上性剝削的案件數量逐年增高的情況下我們到底可以怎麼辦這邊我有一個建議我想要請你們思考看看內政部也請思考看看基層的派出所不一定有這個專業可是可不可以用縣市"},{"start":657.193,"end":680.3,"text":"或是區域為中心去建立一個兒少性剝削的專責窗口由派出所收到案子之後他就把案子轉介出去他只留下一個簡單的記錄確實記錄我收到了然後我轉出去了而這個專責的窗口當然就會有專業的工作人員在裡頭他可以協助家長協助被害人第一時間獲得該有的資源跟支持"},{"start":680.7,"end":694.946,"text":"你覺得這個部分我們有沒有機會來完成或是開啟相關的討論因為這樣子不但會讓家長覺得安心被害人覺得安心我們也讓基層的員警知道我們並不是只加工作在他們身上但是卻沒有給予他們支持"},{"start":695.868,"end":720.64,"text":"跟委員報告就我在地方服務的經驗事實上兒少先剝削這樣的案件大部分我們都會轉接到婦幼隊所以婦幼隊是一個很大的窗口所有的案件比如說就我在地方服務的經驗比較矚目我一定是會交給婦幼隊來處理所以我想現行應該是有婦幼隊這個窗口那因為大部分的案件所有的案件"},{"start":721.34,"end":740.069,"text":"很多所以為什麼很多都是受理案件大部分都派出所但是我想這個部分只要是比如像這種創意私房有專業的案件現在是科徵的時代那科徵的時代大概三個月整個科徵的手法就變了所以我們刑事局在科徵的部分也不斷在普及這科徵教育"},{"start":740.689,"end":764.661,"text":"我當然知道現在有婦幼隊因為我有我知道但是我必須要說就婦幼隊來說他們除了這種網路而上性博學的案例之外還有更多是婦幼隊的業務範圍所以我剛在想的是在這麼多數位時代新型態犯罪而且數量層越來越高的情況下我認為我們真的有必要去研議一個專責的窗口跟單位當然您不用在這裡立刻承諾我可是我認為我們確實有開啟這個討論的必要好嗎"},{"start":768.243,"end":796.628,"text":"那我們辦公室也會持續追蹤喔所以我最後的結論要求就是我想要請司法院警政署就我今天的質詢相關的事項還有相關的報導所提到的困境在一個月內召開會議提出相關的因應那就算事情非常複雜跟龐雜沒有辦法在一個月內解決這是正常的但我希望我們可以開啟相關討論給我們書面報告還有就是請法務部警政署針對相關偵辦兒少性剝削案件的同仁合理的續講"},{"start":797.708,"end":815.662,"text":"那我相信這個名單你們應該是有的那這個合理續講的名單跟相關的機制我認為我們回過頭補應該是可以的不要讓基層的同仁在這些案件上疲於奔命但卻沒有得到該有的獎賞跟鼓勵好那這個進度我們也會跟你們追有沒有機會在一個月內完成續講名單回頭去追"},{"start":817.969,"end":830.104,"text":"回頭追續獎名單 因為續獎有它的程序我們盡量 好不好好 那多久 大概會多是多久在你們合理的程序時間當中續獎的話 兩個月好不好好 謝謝 那我們會記錄下來謝謝 謝謝主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":371,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（9時25分）謝謝主席，有請司法院副秘書長，謝謝。"],["主席：麻煩副秘書長。"],["陳委員培瑜：副秘書長早安。"],["王副秘書長梅英：委員早安。"],["陳委員培瑜：我想國人對於今天的主題都非常關心，我相信剛剛在前一個委員的質詢當中，你們說都有相關進度，我想我們後續就一起關心。我還是要回到我自己的主題，我想跟您討論關於創意私房案，在創意私房案裡面我們看到可以修法的部分，還有報導者在去年做了一系列的報導，告訴我們在整個檢調偵辦過程當中，就法律上的工具還有很多法律的見解，可能讓現場第一線的工作人員需要更多的支持。","我們來看一下，報導者的案件裡面第一個部分談到，同一個案件裡面針對數位時代的犯罪型態，在法院見解的部分，哪一個部分呢？就是當時被害人位於臺中，於是檢察官就向臺中地院聲請羈押，可是臺中地院卻認為行為人持有影片的時候，那個人正在新北，所以臺中沒有管轄權，他們認為必須要移轉或是囑託給新北檢察官來聲請羈押，這個部分當然我不知道當時是透過了什麼樣的溝通，陳檢察官後來還是在臺中辦了這個案子，但是我想知道司法院在目前這一類型的案件有什麼後續的態度，因為我相信這不會是第一個案子，請簡單回應一下。"],["王副秘書長梅英：有關於管轄的規定，其實刑事訴訟法都有相關的規定，現在可能就是各法院之間對於譬如說什麼是結果地，因為如果說是犯罪行為地的話，或者是這個被告的住居所，這個都比較不會有爭議，就是說什麼叫做犯罪結果所發生的地方，可能大家所採的見解有不太一致的地方。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，可是如果在過往比較單純的案件，我覺得比較好去歸納，但是我覺得網路時代、數位時代的犯罪樣態確實已經很不一樣了，從這個陳祥薇檢察官所辦這個創意私房案的案例我們可以看見，如果大家還是採過去的見解，沒有討論的空間跟可能性，我認為會對第一線檢察官造成很大的阻礙。我想你剛剛的說法聽起來就是大家可以溝通、可以討論，雖然有各自的見解，但是我比較希望你們在這件事情上還是要有相關的態度，對於第一線工作人員的支持，好嗎？"],["王副秘書長梅英：謝謝委員的垂詢。我再補充一下，隨著現在資訊的犯罪，因為資訊的犯罪事實上是在電腦裡面，已經不是跑到一個行為地去殺人或是去傷害，所以這種新興的議題，因為學界的相關討論已經滿多了，我想這個部分我們也會進一步加強對於法官的培力，然後大家尋求共識。"],["陳委員培瑜：太好了，謝謝，對於法官的培力、尋求共識，讓檢調人員他們有覺得獲得支持。"],["王副秘書長梅英：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：接下來要溝通的是關於立法工具，這個部分我還是想要跟司法院討論看看，也想要知道你們的見解。在這份報導當中再次提到刑事訴訟法第一百零一條之一，因為被告有反覆實施犯行之虞而得羈押的要件，在這條當中並沒有把兒少性剝削防制條例犯罪列入範圍，但事實上，在製造兒少性影片的這些犯罪人、行為人，極有可能高度反覆犯案，導致於這個檢察官認為在相關的法律上應該要與時俱進，同時在偵辦的過程當中，他也認為被告有串證的可能為由聲請羈押，可是實務上的案例就是成功性不高，因為法官常常認為網路犯罪的人只有網路交流，現實生活中互不認識，所以不符合目前訂定的羈押要件。一樣是法官的見解，這邊可不可以請你們回應一下？"],["王副秘書長梅英：跟委員報告，目前第一百零一條之一的反覆實施之虞的羈押要件，確實沒有把性剝削歸納進去，這部分我想是一個刑事政策的決定，謝謝委員垂詢，這個部分我們也會帶回去研議。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，我想不要只有研議，我自己其實已經有提出修法版本，而且也已經都連署完成，我們當時的訴求就是希望可以強化兒少保護網，而且我們有具體的作為，所以我自己也提了修法，我當然不確定這個會期有沒有機會討論到這麼具體的事情，可是我認為這件事情你們應該也可以提早做出準備，不管是跟專家學者研議，或者是實務上的見解、第一線工作人員意見的蒐集，我相信這件事情絕對可以加大保護兒少網這個部分，可以嗎？"],["王副秘書長梅英：可以，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝，那我們就期待你們後續的進度。"],["王副秘書長梅英：好。"],["陳委員培瑜：我要請警政署。謝謝副秘書長，謝謝。","警政署有來，對不對？刑事警察局副局長。"],["林副局長故廷：委員好。"],["陳委員培瑜：一樣，同一篇報導，在這篇報導裡面有提到以下這一段文字，我就簡單說一下，檢察官說他在三年前開始辦這個案子的時候，其實是沒有人想要辦的，不想辦的原因並不是檢察官偷懶推卸責任，而是這樣大規模的案子，而且新型態的數位網路犯罪，其實在過往可能沒辦法有太多參考的案例，且他說當時加害者、被害者都分散全臺，一辦就要長期抗爭，檢察官要找專業、熱情、可以長時間投入的人來幫忙，可是他所面對第一個困境就是來幫忙的這些警察同仁，在這一類型的案件上並沒有績效，也就是沒有加分，要把這麼多被害人集結起來，必須要花費非常多的人力跟心力，只有靠使命感硬撐下去是很辛苦的。當然最後檢察官是用組織犯罪防制條例去起訴，給員警們相關的誘因，這對警察來說非常的重要。來自警政署的你，我不知道你怎麼看這件事情，我必須要說，非常佩服這個檢察官，他最後決定採用組織犯罪防制條例讓相關協助辦案的警察人員獲得了相關的獎勵，但是如果沒有這個檢察官想到，我不知道這個案子還要拖多久。","在相關第一線的辦案，我們來看。其實，警政署在2017年曾經有執行過一個叫做青春專案，我的投影片有相關的數字，這個青春專案裡面，你們當時調整了績效，你們跟警察說，只要相關案件可以以兒少性剝削防制條例第三十六條到第四十條移送就可以評比核分，所以當時各縣市都大力查緝。你看2017年查緝數字來到將近三千，可是到了2018年，卻說相關的案子檢察體系懷疑濫行移送，所以到了2018年評比的方法又改了，相關的案件必須要報請檢察官指揮，並且聲押嫌犯，警察才能核分，這都是在報導裡面檢察官所指出的相關問題。結果門檻提升之後，請警政署這邊看一下，到了2018年就落到了七、八百件而已，可能你會想搞不好是犯罪案例變少了嗎？並沒有！在衛福部近年所通報的數字當中，其實網路兒少性剝削的通報數量是越來越多，但是因為沒有好的獎勵工具，就可能讓我們的員警沒有動力去做這件事情。不知道身為長官的您怎麼看這件事情？有沒有機會我們一起來突破這個困境？"],["林副局長故廷：跟委員報告，關於創意私房，我們九大隊配合檢察官去偵辦這個案件……"],["陳委員培瑜：有，我知道，大家都非常的配合，非常的辛苦。"],["林副局長故廷：所有有關績效的部分，不管是春安或是青春專案，警政署的立場就是讓偵辦犯罪常態化。"],["陳委員培瑜：是。"],["林副局長故廷：在整個獎懲的部分，我想這個部分我們回去研究怎麼樣獎懲的方式來提高他們的誘因，就是偵辦刑案的誘因。因為青春專案過去在兒少這個部分，確實像2017到2018，後來慢慢都讓它已經變成常態化。"],["陳委員培瑜：我沒有意見，常態化當然是好事，可是如果沒有相關績效，相對於現在的網路詐騙是有績效加分的，或者是販毒的部分應該也是有的，可是網路兒少性剝削這個部分應該可能是沒有的，我不確定，但看起來是這樣，就如同您所說的，它是一個常態型，所以可能對基層員警來說，當他每天有這麼多事情要處理的時候，可能這件事情的優先度就不會這麼高。"],["林副局長故廷：是，回去我們會研究有關於……"],["陳委員培瑜：我們有沒有機會在一個月後收到您研議的相關報告，或是開啟相關討論的報告？"],["林副局長故廷：好。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝警政署。我再跟您講另外一個事情，除了我剛剛說的績效之外，目前的報案機制，在這個報導裡面有談到，他說當時有一個少女的母親去報警，然後在報警的前後，加害人繼續傳送訊息給這個少女說：你去報警啊，反正你抓不到我！根據我們了解，之所以這個加害人敢這麼囂張，就是因為地方員警、基層派出所的同仁，他們也許不具備有網路兒少性剝削的偵辦能力，所以他們在第一時間收到這樣的案例，我相信有大部分的基層同仁是不知道該怎麼辦的，一樣，我們不可以責怪基層的同仁，我們必須要問，在面對這麼多層出不窮的網路兒少性剝削的案件數量逐年增高的情況下，我們到底可以怎麼辦？這邊我有一個建議，我想要請你們思考看看，內政部也請思考看看，基層的派出所不一定有這個專業，可是可不可以用縣市或是區域為中心去建立一個兒少性剝削的專責窗口？由派出所收到案子之後就把案子轉介出去，就只留下一個簡單的紀錄，確實紀錄我收到了，然後我轉出去了，而這個專責的窗口當然就會有專業的工作人員，他可以協助家長、協助被害人在第一時間獲得該有的資源跟支持，你覺得這個部分，我們有沒有機會來完成，或是開啟相關的討論？因為這樣子不但會讓家長覺得安心、被害人覺得安心，也讓基層的員警知道，我們並不是只加工作在他們身上，但是卻沒有給予他們支持。"],["林副局長故廷：跟委員報告，就我在地方服務的經驗，事實上兒少性剝削這樣的案件，大部分我們都會轉介到婦幼隊，所以婦幼隊是一個很大的窗口，所有的案件，比如說就我在地方服務的經驗，比較矚目的我一定是會交給婦幼隊處理，所以我想現行應該是有婦幼隊這個窗口，因為大部分的案件，所有的案件很多，所以為什麼很多受理案件大部分都是派出所，但是我想這個部分，比如像是創意私房這種有專業的案件，現在是科偵的時代，在科偵的時代，大概三個月，整個科偵的手法就變了，所以我們刑事局在科偵的部分也不斷在普及科偵教育。"],["陳委員培瑜：我當然知道現在有婦幼隊，但是我必須要說，就婦幼隊來說，他們除了這種網路兒少性剝削的案例之外，還有更多是婦幼隊的業務範圍，所以我剛剛在想的是，在這麼多數位時代新型態犯罪，而且數量越來越高的情況下，我認為我們真的有必要去研議一個專責的窗口跟單位，當然您不用在這裡立刻承諾我，可是我認為我們確實有開啟這個討論的必要，好嗎？"],["林副局長故廷：好，謝謝。"],["陳委員培瑜：我們辦公室也會持續追蹤，所以我最後的結論要求就是，我想要請司法院、警政署，就我今天質詢相關的事項，還有相關報導所提到的困境，在一個月內召開會議，提出相關的因應。就算事情非常複雜跟龐雜，沒有辦法在一個月內解決，這是正常的，但我希望我們可以開啟相關討論，給我們書面報告。還有就是請法務部、警政署針對相關偵辦兒少性剝削案件的同仁，合理的敘獎，我相信這個名單你們應該是有的，這個合理敘獎的名單跟相關的機制，我認為我們回過頭補應該是可以的，不要讓基層的同仁在這些案件上疲於奔命，但卻沒有得到該有的獎賞跟鼓勵。"],["林副局長故廷：好，沒問題。"],["陳委員培瑜：這個進度我們也會跟你們追，有沒有機會在一個月內完成敘獎名單？回頭去追。"],["林副局長故廷：回頭追敘獎名單，因為敘獎有它的程序，我們儘量好不好？"],["陳委員培瑜：好，大概會是多久？在你們合理的程序時間當中。"],["林副局長故廷：敘獎的話，兩個月好不好？"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝。我們會記錄下來。"],["林副局長故廷：謝謝。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝。","下一位請林倩綺委員發言。","林委員，不好意思，先等一下。因為待會部長10點要先離開。部長，剛剛黃國昌委員說兩個禮拜，因為也有其他委員傳訊息給我，希望下下禮拜再安排一次，就是就北檢的部分想要再就教法務部，這部分先跟部長說明一下，可能我們下下禮拜還會再排一個類似的相關議程會議，再麻煩部長到時候能夠過來，謝謝部長。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":112,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-8","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","陳培瑜","林倩綺","王義川","王鴻薇","吳思瑤","翁曉玲","張啓楷","林月琴","莊瑞雄","羅智強","沈發惠"],"page_start":51,"meetingDate":["2025-04-10"],"gazette_id":"1143702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143702_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部矯正署、內政部警政署、內政部移民署、海洋委員會\n海巡署率所屬相關單位列席就「法院作成『略式裁定』之依據、理由、法定程序、救濟方式，與\n科技設備監控處分變更、延長或撤銷之標準，並就執行現況，提供相關統計數據與策進作為」進\n行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143702_00002"}}}