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00:00:49,276\n就是就北檢的部分想要再就教法務部那這部分先跟部長說明一下那可能我們下禮拜還會再排一個類似的那個相關議程的那個會議那再麻煩部長能夠到時候過來好謝謝部長謝謝主席主席府院同仁大家好早安好那我就先請副秘書長\n\n3\n00:00:50,489 --> 00:00:51,689\n在我們整個民主法制的社會當中司法制度的正當性跟透明性會影響到個案的正義的實現\n\n4\n00:01:15,114 --> 00:01:40,755\n那也是維繫民眾對國家信賴的根本那本席今天想要從這個主題粵式裁定可能侵害人身自由的爭議跟第二個部分是詐欺犯罪這跟法務部比較有關詐欺犯罪因量刑過輕而造成社會的不安最後呢是大法官針對死刑核限做出的這個釋憲的模糊那我們看到在個別制度上的一個瑕疵\n\n5\n00:01:42,055 --> 00:02:08,364\n而且司法權在程序設計跟實務操作上面臨的一個深層的挑戰所以本席希望在司法的這個部分如果沒有明確的依據應有的通知義務跟有效的救濟機制那會導致程序的濫用也會動搖民眾對正義的一個信仰因此本席今天提出的質詢是希望司法院與法務部能夠正視制度性風險\n\n6\n00:02:09,884 --> 00:02:36,235\n然後來回應民意的期待那重建司法的信任與正當性所以我們就進入第一個有關於司法權核心正當性跟制度透明性的一個問題那也就是跟這個劣勢裁定有關法院在涉及科技設備監控等限制人身自由的處分所作出的劣勢裁定的依據與程序有沒有具備法律基礎或使用\n\n7\n00:02:36,975 --> 00:02:58,554\n是否符合法定的要件跟憲法的一個原則還是或者是在這個實務上是不是有存在著這個制度的濫用權責的不清還有資訊不透明等現象我想前面也有委員把個案的細節闡述得蠻清楚的本席這邊想就系統性跟政策面來跟您就一個探討\n\n8\n00:02:59,455 --> 00:03:16,069\n所以在這個我們都知道的中文字案對一般民眾來講可能很不解的就是在高等法院已經定驗了判刑三十年之後涉案人還能夠潛逃失聯那直接的原因是高等法院你們在去年的這個\n\n9\n00:03:17,470 --> 00:03:45,234\n十月中旬的這個劣勢加保的裁定那這個裁定呢是換取不予延長科技監控的決定但是依照我們這邊所得到的這個相關的資料沒有依法公告也沒有送達檢調機關對不起檢查機關也沒有通知當事人辯護人以至於檢方完全喪失抗告的這個可能程序最主要是程序感覺好像蕩然無存\n\n10\n00:03:45,974 --> 00:04:13,464\n所以然後事後檢院之間的通報電話紀錄又還有不同的版本那行政程序到資訊的紀錄都不太明顯那就讓人有一種偽造的疑慮所以這讓人家想到有點像是法官的審理權的濫用跟法院內部程序是不是已經失控那它好像不是一個個案的問題而是司法機關制度性風險的一個問題\n\n11\n00:04:15,365 --> 00:04:40,115\n那劣勢裁定以本席這邊所了解的是刑事訴訟法第455條以下規定的特例程序設定的目的是犯罪輕微案件單純的情形但是經過被告同意之後由法院不經延遲辯論迅速裁定那麼在監控處分跟保釋條件還有科技設備使用等直接干預人身自由的情境當中\n\n12\n00:04:41,331 --> 00:04:56,432\n引用的劣勢程序那法律依據是什麼呢程序上是不是應該進行刑事訴訟法第101條關於羈押監控延長的公開審理與通知義務那這個部分是不是可以就教副秘書長\n\n13\n00:04:57,639 --> 00:05:18,617\n好那個謝謝委員垂詢那有關於那個委員關心這個議題其實我們在那個報告中就是已經有那個提及了這一個這一個案件他最主要那個為師其實並不是說就是這個裁定那個格式的那個問題而是說裁定呢他\n\n14\n00:05:19,358 --> 00:05:37,251\n一定有法定的程序就是什麼時候成立什麼時候要對外生效那對外生效這個是一個最基本的你要不然的話就是當庭所做的呢就是以言詞把它宣示出來讓當庭所在的當事人他可以聽懂了說法院對我所做的裁定是什麼\n\n15\n00:05:37,771 --> 00:05:49,016\n所以就只針對當事人所以相關的相關人等不然的話就是說你沒有當庭宣誓的話你就要把它做成一個裁定書把它那個送達\n\n16\n00:05:51,027 --> 00:06:17,868\n之後呢就當然還有那個公告的這一些那個程序那所以本件的那個問題並不是說他的這一個裁定的那個格式是不是用一個比較一個簡便的因為像那個最高法院他也承認說這個裁定他沒有一定的格式像我們在那個羈押的時候呢法官他會做一張押票這固定格式那這個謝謝複密署長本席在一開始就跟你們講說本席不想落入個案的一個討論\n\n17\n00:06:18,669 --> 00:06:39,338\n但是就這個個案影響到了整個系統性的問題是本席最想要跟您就教的那要跟委員報告的是就是說其實在我們那個法院呢大部分的那個法官都是非常敬業而且都是課那個課刑就是刑事訴訟法所做的那個規定的所以這類那個裁定呢他之所以為什麼我們\n\n18\n00:06:40,118 --> 00:06:58,597\n會進入那個懲處的那個程序它真的就是個案它真的就是個案那你們有沒有從這個個案再去檢視系統性有沒有失靈好本席這邊提一下啦那你這個明文的規定對不起明文的依據為什麼會是司法實務當中可以被啟動的處分形式如果它沒有一個明文的依據\n\n19\n00:07:00,455 --> 00:07:24,422\n那你們有沒有存在其他同樣被劣勢處理但是沒有依法紀錄沒有送達或沒有給予救濟機會的案件那你們有沒有掌握這個統計數據或運用範圍你們剛才講這個個案嘛對不對我們目前除了這個我們不知道其他有這樣子為師的情形因為這就是一個為師有沒有可能有有沒有可能有有沒有可能有\n\n20\n00:07:25,838 --> 00:07:43,102\n這個案件是因為眾所矚目嘛那其他有沒有像這樣子的狀況有可能有沒有有沒有可能啦妳覺得如果說從可能性的話這個我當然就是從機率上我沒有辦法說是那個不行那我想我們道分的這個法官可能還不太確定有沒有嘛\n\n21\n00:07:43,502 --> 00:08:06,361\n所以你們有沒有可能就針對這樣一個相關的裁定形式是否浮現展開一些研究調查本席經常從個案會看整體性的一個問題所以本席這邊所提出來就是說你不太確定有沒有可能有這樣子的狀況那你們是不是藉這個機會也去檢視一下然後這中間為師的這個部分可以作為這系統性檢視的一個參考你們覺得呢\n\n22\n00:08:07,239 --> 00:08:33,597\n是可以的但是就是說裁定它是不要一定那個格式的妳講的是這個個案啦所以我在講這個整個我們那個通案就是說本來就是最高法院我們實務界這是我們大家慣行了就是裁定它沒有一定格式可是最重要的就是說你一定要把它裁定對外宣示出去這個才是爭點所以這個部分有沒有其他的案件會有現在這個情況\n\n23\n00:08:35,740 --> 00:08:56,125\n有沒有可能有其他案件會有像這樣子的情況不是只有這個眾所矚目的中文制案件我們通常那個法官就是因為這就是一個為私行為通常那個法官都是依照那個法律規定在進行的好就是這個通常嘛所以本席就是藉這個個案提醒您是不是有機會檢視一下檢視一下\n\n24\n00:09:03,306 --> 00:09:20,131\n這個部分本席這邊再做一個建議啦是不是可以專案調查就劣勢裁定的適用範圍通知義務跟救濟保障還有相關案件失誤比例提出一些透明的統計數據那如果目前還沒有建立通報跟送達\n\n25\n00:09:20,931 --> 00:09:47,289\n制度之標準作業程序希望不知道這個部分有沒有如果還沒有是不是可以由司法院統一來頒布規則並對全國的各級法院加以訓練跟監督其實我們相關於就是裁定的這些那個原本還有正本的那個製作那個不只是刑事訴訟法就是其他的司法院所頒的這些那個刑事審判記錄業務注意事項這些其實都已經有非常詳細的一個規定了\n\n26\n00:09:48,650 --> 00:10:13,395\n所以複密署長您是覺得這樣一個情況這目前整個系統是除了這個個案沒有其他的問題的可能性還是說也有可能如果有可能本席這邊提出來的就是一個系統性的建議所以如同剛才我所講的假設有那是不是請你們就這一些案件去做一個系統性的了解跟分析然後相關的這個統計數據可不可以也去做一個整理\n\n27\n00:10:14,688 --> 00:10:35,135\n司法院可以來做這一份那個就是做這個分析啊那如果如您剛才所講的您覺得這個相關的這個SOP是OK的您也藉這個機會來檢視一下那我們整體是不是在這樣子的事件上還有再進一步跟大家宣導監督的一個必要性這是我一個建議好謝謝委員好謝謝蜂蜜署長不好意思我再用一點點時間齁那法務部不好意思法務部長\n\n28\n00:10:42,981 --> 00:10:58,326\n好那剛才本來是有三個議題啦那我現在就進行第二個議題那第三個議題因為時間關係我想改天我們再來做一個處理那針對這個法務部這個議題我想這很多委員都關注的也就是詐欺犯量刑過輕的這個問題\n\n29\n00:11:00,242 --> 00:11:20,544\n所以這一直是社會的焦點所以我們基本上是希望對現行法制跟量刑實務沒有辦法反映社會對詐欺犯詐欺嚴重性的一個問題所以本席這邊其實要提出來本席其實也提了一些法案所以民眾在目前\n\n30\n00:11:21,525 --> 00:11:41,774\n被詐欺所影響的直接或間接的狀況其實是非常嚴重的那我們知道整個詐欺罪你們的統計在2017年到2021年詐欺罪確定的大約有7萬人然後被判處6個月以下的大概佔了43%那3年以上的徒刑\n\n31\n00:11:42,614 --> 00:12:03,969\n大概不足1%大概差不多只有355人那這樣的數據很令人憂心顯示現在量刑好像沒有辦法針對其對人民的危害而有一些實質的反應所以現行的刑法第339條對於一般詐欺犯涉的五年以下的徒刑而且還可以異科罰金\n\n32\n00:12:07,071 --> 00:12:15,735\n感覺好像沒有辦法有嚇阻的作用因為詐欺本身是高報酬低風險的違法行為模式那現在詐欺案件屢見不鮮\n\n33\n00:12:20,170 --> 00:12:44,389\n應該是有一個制度性的漏洞所以大家現在能夠比較提出來的實務性操作就是加重詐欺罪所以在刑法第339條之四現在僅設一年以上七年以下的徒刑那對於網路還有冒用公部門現在詐欺從個人又變成一個集體行為甚至利用AI這些很難辨別的假訊息它的整個處罰實在過輕\n\n34\n00:12:46,651 --> 00:13:14,257\n那上次其實詐欺本席上次也提到但是法務部這邊提講的大概就是比較前端的有關於警政系統但是我想後端的阻嚇作用是非常重要的所以包括本席還有很多委員都對刑法第339條的之三跟四提出一些修正草案將一級的詐欺罪提高到五年以上十二年以下的徒刑加重詐欺罪者\n\n35\n00:13:15,217 --> 00:13:40,204\n無期徒刑或七年以上情節重大者可以到十年以上這樣明確回應社會對打擊詐騙的高度期待那凸顯我們目前現行的量刑跟社會的現實有一些脫節因為整個統計數據來講輕型化的趨勢就越演越烈那現行的法定刑責跟量刑\n\n36\n00:13:41,044 --> 00:13:49,349\n的適當性讓大家很疑慮所以不知道部長您是不是同意本席剛才所談的這個量刑\n\n37\n00:13:51,725 --> 00:14:18,624\n謝謝委員的一個指教那的確是那個詐欺罪是讓全民共憤這是全民公敵那輕判的這個問題事實上外面的確是整個房間的確是有相當的質疑那這部分以現行來講我們也這個刑法的這個是不是過輕這個跟委員報告這個在去年的7月30日要施行的詐欺危害防治條例事實上在第42條\n\n38\n00:14:20,565 --> 00:14:34,731\n第43條裡面它有判刑法339-4剛才我有提到339-4的這些的如果詐欺達到500萬就3年以上10年以下的一個刑度如果說超過1億的達到1億的是5到12年那這邊還可以併科3億\n\n39\n00:14:41,334 --> 00:15:03,393\n3億以下的一個罰金事實上去年就已經對這部分有做一些我們過了詐欺司法裡面這邊明確的針對犯罪行為跟刑期都有提高那44條裡面就是剛剛339之4裡面的那些只要以一個複合型的這是有兩個的話就是\n\n40\n00:15:04,494 --> 00:15:32,747\n就是在那個有蝦類就是有這樣有複合型的這些的詐欺的行為的話是再加二分之一那如果在這發起主持操縱的這些這些詐團這些領導的這些人這些是處5到12年的一個徒刑並克3億以下的一個罰金那另外這個事實上這個是全方位的另外這一種的話在50條我們檢查可以具體的一個酋刑那我們現在\n\n41\n00:15:34,167 --> 00:15:54,078\n發文給檢察官就是如果有詐欺危害防治條例相關的這些的加重的這些比較重的這些的詐欺犯刑我們是請檢察官要具體的一個求刑那我想這樣可以遏阻這些詐欺的這些的這些的這犯刑我想也受到一些的一個成果\n\n42\n00:15:54,998 --> 00:16:18,693\n那部長所以本席這邊除了您剛才這個我們也談到修正的本席這邊所談到的五年跟十二年還有無期徒刑或七年這個部分您是不是針對本席現在所提出來的相關的法案然後還有您剛才講的我們去年通過了打炸四法做一些分析然後參考本席這邊談到的情節重大者的一個\n\n43\n00:16:20,254 --> 00:16:44,779\n處罰跟罰則做一個相關的分析然後我們再來比較那去年的這個部分跟今年很多委員包括本席所提出來的法案那其中的對詐欺的嚇阻的效力是不是再做一個更進一步的分析跟檢討我們再用數目的資料再跟委員給委員來做一個報告不要忘記本席這邊也有提出無期徒刑的這個刑責是不是我們再做一個分析好的好謝謝主席好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4304\t11053\t林委員不好意思先等一下因為待會部長10點要先離開剛剛黃國昌委員說兩個禮拜也有其他委員傳訊息給我說希望下下禮拜再安排一次\n20926\t49276\t就是就北檢的部分想要再就教法務部那這部分先跟部長說明一下那可能我們下禮拜還會再排一個類似的那個相關議程的那個會議那再麻煩部長能夠到時候過來好 謝謝部長謝謝主席主席 府院同仁 大家好早安好 那我就先請副秘書長\n50489\t51689\t在我們整個民主法制的社會當中司法制度的正當性跟透明性會影響到個案的正義的實現\n75114\t100755\t那也是維繫民眾對國家信賴的根本那本席今天想要從這個主題粵式裁定可能侵害人身自由的爭議跟第二個部分是詐欺犯罪這跟法務部比較有關詐欺犯罪因量刑過輕而造成社會的不安最後呢是大法官針對死刑核限做出的這個釋憲的模糊那我們看到在個別制度上的一個瑕疵\n102055\t128364\t而且司法權在程序設計跟實務操作上面臨的一個深層的挑戰所以本席希望在司法的這個部分如果沒有明確的依據應有的通知義務跟有效的救濟機制那會導致程序的濫用也會動搖民眾對正義的一個信仰因此本席今天提出的質詢是希望司法院與法務部能夠正視制度性風險\n129884\t156235\t然後來回應民意的期待那重建司法的信任與正當性所以我們就進入第一個有關於司法權核心正當性跟制度透明性的一個問題那也就是跟這個劣勢裁定有關法院在涉及科技設備監控等限制人身自由的處分所作出的劣勢裁定的依據與程序有沒有具備法律基礎或使用\n156975\t178554\t是否符合法定的要件跟憲法的一個原則還是或者是在這個實務上是不是有存在著這個制度的濫用 權責的不清還有資訊不透明等現象我想前面也有委員把個案的細節闡述得蠻清楚的本席這邊想就系統性跟政策面來跟您就一個探討\n179455\t196069\t所以在這個我們都知道的中文字案對一般民眾來講可能很不解的就是在高等法院已經定驗了判刑三十年之後涉案人還能夠潛逃失聯那直接的原因是高等法院你們在去年的這個\n197470\t225234\t十月中旬的這個劣勢加保的裁定那這個裁定呢是換取不予延長科技監控的決定但是依照我們這邊所得到的這個相關的資料沒有依法公告也沒有送達檢調機關對不起檢查機關也沒有通知當事人辯護人以至於檢方完全喪失抗告的這個可能程序最主要是程序感覺好像蕩然無存\n225974\t253464\t所以然後事後檢院之間的通報電話紀錄又還有不同的版本那行政程序到資訊的紀錄都不太明顯那就讓人有一種偽造的疑慮所以這讓人家想到有點像是法官的審理權的濫用跟法院內部程序是不是已經失控那它好像不是一個個案的問題而是司法機關制度性風險的一個問題\n255365\t280115\t那劣勢裁定以本席這邊所了解的是刑事訴訟法第455條以下規定的特例程序設定的目的是犯罪輕微案件單純的情形但是經過被告同意之後由法院不經延遲辯論迅速裁定那麼在監控處分跟保釋條件還有科技設備使用等直接干預人身自由的情境當中\n281331\t296432\t引用的劣勢程序那法律依據是什麼呢程序上是不是應該進行刑事訴訟法第101條關於羈押監控延長的公開審理與通知義務那這個部分是不是可以就教副秘書長\n297639\t318617\t好那個謝謝委員垂詢那有關於那個委員關心這個議題其實我們在那個報告中就是已經有那個提及了這一個這一個案件他最主要那個為師其實並不是說就是這個裁定那個格式的那個問題而是說裁定呢他\n319358\t337251\t一定有法定的程序就是什麼時候成立什麼時候要對外生效那對外生效這個是一個最基本的你要不然的話就是當庭所做的呢就是以言詞把它宣示出來讓當庭所在的當事人他可以聽懂了說法院對我所做的裁定是什麼\n337771\t349016\t所以就只針對當事人所以相關的相關人等 不然的話就是說你沒有當庭宣誓的話你就要把它做成一個裁定書把它那個送達\n351027\t377868\t之後呢就當然還有那個公告的這一些那個程序那所以本件的那個問題並不是說他的這一個裁定的那個格式是不是用一個比較一個簡便的因為像那個最高法院他也承認說這個裁定他沒有一定的格式像我們在那個羈押的時候呢法官他會做一張押票這固定格式那這個謝謝複密署長本席在一開始就跟你們講說本席不想落入個案的一個討論\n378669\t399338\t但是就這個個案影響到了整個系統性的問題是本席最想要跟您就教的那要跟委員報告的是就是說其實在我們那個法院呢大部分的那個法官都是非常敬業而且都是課那個課刑就是刑事訴訟法所做的那個規定的所以這類那個裁定呢他之所以為什麼我們\n400118\t418597\t會進入那個懲處的那個程序它真的就是個案它真的就是個案那你們有沒有從這個個案再去檢視系統性有沒有失靈好 本席這邊提一下啦那你這個明文的規定對不起 明文的依據為什麼會是司法實務當中可以被啟動的處分形式如果它沒有一個明文的依據\n420455\t444422\t那你們有沒有存在其他同樣被劣勢處理但是沒有依法紀錄沒有送達或沒有給予救濟機會的案件那你們有沒有掌握這個統計數據或運用範圍你們剛才講這個個案嘛對不對我們目前除了這個我們不知道其他有這樣子為師的情形因為這就是一個為師有沒有可能有有沒有可能有有沒有可能有\n445838\t463102\t這個案件是因為眾所矚目嘛那其他有沒有像這樣子的狀況有可能 有沒有有沒有可能啦 妳覺得如果說從可能性的話這個我當然就是從機率上我沒有辦法說是那個不行那我想我們道分的這個法官可能還不太確定有沒有嘛\n463502\t486361\t所以你們有沒有可能就針對這樣一個相關的裁定形式是否浮現展開一些研究調查本席經常從個案會看整體性的一個問題所以本席這邊所提出來就是說你不太確定有沒有可能有這樣子的狀況那你們是不是藉這個機會也去檢視一下然後這中間為師的這個部分可以作為這系統性檢視的一個參考你們覺得呢\n487239\t513597\t是可以的 但是就是說裁定它是不要一定那個格式的妳講的是這個個案啦所以我在講這個整個我們那個通案就是說本來就是最高法院我們實務界這是我們大家慣行了就是裁定它沒有一定格式可是最重要的就是說你一定要把它裁定對外宣示出去這個才是爭點所以這個部分有沒有其他的案件會有現在這個情況\n515740\t536125\t有沒有可能有其他案件會有像這樣子的情況不是只有這個眾所矚目的中文制案件我們通常那個法官就是因為這就是一個為私行為通常那個法官都是依照那個法律規定在進行的好 就是這個通常嘛所以本席就是藉這個個案提醒您是不是有機會檢視一下檢視一下\n543306\t560131\t這個部分本席這邊再做一個建議啦是不是可以專案調查就劣勢裁定的適用範圍通知義務跟救濟保障還有相關案件失誤比例提出一些透明的統計數據那如果目前還沒有建立通報跟送達\n560931\t587289\t制度之標準作業程序希望不知道這個部分有沒有如果還沒有是不是可以由司法院統一來頒布規則並對全國的各級法院加以訓練跟監督其實我們相關於就是裁定的這些那個原本還有正本的那個製作那個不只是刑事訴訟法就是其他的司法院所頒的這些那個刑事審判記錄業務注意事項這些其實都已經有非常詳細的一個規定了\n588650\t613395\t所以複密署長您是覺得這樣一個情況這目前整個系統是除了這個個案沒有其他的問題的可能性還是說也有可能如果有可能本席這邊提出來的就是一個系統性的建議所以如同剛才我所講的假設有那是不是請你們就這一些案件去做一個系統性的了解跟分析然後相關的這個統計數據可不可以也去做一個整理\n614688\t635135\t司法院可以來做這一份那個 就是做這個分析啊那如果如您剛才所講的 您覺得這個相關的這個SOP是OK的 您也藉這個機會來檢視一下 那我們整體是不是在這樣子的事件上還有再進一步跟大家宣導監督的一個必要性這是我一個建議 好 謝謝委員好 謝謝蜂蜜署長 不好意思我再用一點點時間齁那法務部 不好意思 法務部長\n642981\t658326\t好那剛才本來是有三個議題啦那我現在就進行第二個議題那第三個議題因為時間關係我想改天我們再來做一個處理那針對這個法務部這個議題我想這很多委員都關注的也就是詐欺犯量刑過輕的這個問題\n660242\t680544\t所以這一直是社會的焦點所以我們基本上是希望對現行法制跟量刑實務沒有辦法反映社會對詐欺犯詐欺嚴重性的一個問題所以本席這邊其實要提出來本席其實也提了一些法案所以民眾在目前\n681525\t701774\t被詐欺所影響的直接或間接的狀況其實是非常嚴重的那我們知道整個詐欺罪你們的統計在2017年到2021年詐欺罪確定的大約有7萬人然後被判處6個月以下的大概佔了43%那3年以上的徒刑\n702614\t723969\t大概不足1%大概差不多只有355人那這樣的數據很令人憂心顯示現在量刑好像沒有辦法針對其對人民的危害而有一些實質的反應所以現行的刑法第339條對於一般詐欺犯涉的五年以下的徒刑而且還可以異科罰金\n727071\t735735\t感覺好像沒有辦法有嚇阻的作用因為詐欺本身是高報酬低風險的違法行為模式那現在詐欺案件屢見不鮮\n740170\t764389\t應該是有一個制度性的漏洞所以大家現在能夠比較提出來的實務性操作就是加重詐欺罪所以在刑法第339條之四現在僅設一年以上七年以下的徒刑那對於網路還有冒用公部門現在詐欺從個人又變成一個集體行為甚至利用AI這些很難辨別的假訊息它的整個處罰實在過輕\n766651\t794257\t那上次其實詐欺本席上次也提到但是法務部這邊提講的大概就是比較前端的有關於警政系統但是我想後端的阻嚇作用是非常重要的所以包括本席還有很多委員都對刑法第339條的之三跟四提出一些修正草案將一級的詐欺罪提高到五年以上十二年以下的徒刑加重詐欺罪者\n795217\t820204\t無期徒刑或七年以上情節重大者可以到十年以上這樣明確回應社會對打擊詐騙的高度期待那凸顯我們目前現行的量刑跟社會的現實有一些脫節因為整個統計數據來講輕型化的趨勢就越演越烈那現行的法定刑責跟量刑\n821044\t829349\t的適當性讓大家很疑慮所以不知道部長您是不是同意本席剛才所談的這個量刑\n831725\t858624\t謝謝委員的一個指教那的確是那個詐欺罪是讓全民共憤這是全民公敵那輕判的這個問題事實上外面的確是整個房間的確是有相當的質疑那這部分以現行來講我們也這個刑法的這個是不是過輕這個跟委員報告這個在去年的7月30日要施行的詐欺危害防治條例事實上在第42條\n860565\t874731\t第43條裡面它有判刑法339-4剛才我有提到339-4的這些的如果詐欺達到500萬就3年以上10年以下的一個刑度如果說超過1億的達到1億的是5到12年那這邊還可以併科3億\n881334\t903393\t3億以下的一個罰金 事實上去年就已經對這部分有做一些我們過了詐欺司法裡面這邊明確的針對犯罪行為跟刑期都有提高那44條裡面就是剛剛339之4裡面的那些只要以一個複合型的這是有兩個的話就是\n904494\t932747\t就是在那個有蝦類就是有這樣有複合型的這些的詐欺的行為的話是再加二分之一那如果在這發起主持操縱的這些這些詐團這些領導的這些人這些是處5到12年的一個徒刑並克3億以下的一個罰金那另外這個事實上這個是全方位的另外這一種的話在50條我們檢查可以具體的一個酋刑那我們現在\n934167\t954078\t發文給檢察官就是如果有詐欺危害防治條例相關的這些的加重的這些比較重的這些的詐欺犯刑我們是請檢察官要具體的一個求刑那我想這樣可以遏阻這些詐欺的這些的這些的這犯刑我想也受到一些的一個成果\n954998\t978693\t那部長所以本席這邊除了您剛才這個我們也談到修正的本席這邊所談到的五年跟十二年還有無期徒刑或七年這個部分您是不是針對本席現在所提出來的相關的法案然後還有您剛才講的我們去年通過了打炸四法做一些分析然後參考本席這邊談到的情節重大者的一個\n980254\t1004779\t處罰跟罰則做一個相關的分析然後我們再來比較那去年的這個部分跟今年很多委員包括本席所提出來的法案那其中的對詐欺的嚇阻的效力是不是再做一個更進一步的分析跟檢討我們再用數目的資料再跟委員給委員來做一個報告不要忘記本席這邊也有提出無期徒刑的這個刑責是不是我們再做一個分析好的好謝謝主席好謝謝\n","txt":"林委員不好意思先等一下因為待會部長10點要先離開剛剛黃國昌委員說兩個禮拜也有其他委員傳訊息給我說希望下下禮拜再安排一次\n就是就北檢的部分想要再就教法務部那這部分先跟部長說明一下那可能我們下禮拜還會再排一個類似的那個相關議程的那個會議那再麻煩部長能夠到時候過來好 謝謝部長謝謝主席主席 府院同仁 大家好早安好 那我就先請副秘書長\n在我們整個民主法制的社會當中司法制度的正當性跟透明性會影響到個案的正義的實現\n那也是維繫民眾對國家信賴的根本那本席今天想要從這個主題粵式裁定可能侵害人身自由的爭議跟第二個部分是詐欺犯罪這跟法務部比較有關詐欺犯罪因量刑過輕而造成社會的不安最後呢是大法官針對死刑核限做出的這個釋憲的模糊那我們看到在個別制度上的一個瑕疵\n而且司法權在程序設計跟實務操作上面臨的一個深層的挑戰所以本席希望在司法的這個部分如果沒有明確的依據應有的通知義務跟有效的救濟機制那會導致程序的濫用也會動搖民眾對正義的一個信仰因此本席今天提出的質詢是希望司法院與法務部能夠正視制度性風險\n然後來回應民意的期待那重建司法的信任與正當性所以我們就進入第一個有關於司法權核心正當性跟制度透明性的一個問題那也就是跟這個劣勢裁定有關法院在涉及科技設備監控等限制人身自由的處分所作出的劣勢裁定的依據與程序有沒有具備法律基礎或使用\n是否符合法定的要件跟憲法的一個原則還是或者是在這個實務上是不是有存在著這個制度的濫用 權責的不清還有資訊不透明等現象我想前面也有委員把個案的細節闡述得蠻清楚的本席這邊想就系統性跟政策面來跟您就一個探討\n所以在這個我們都知道的中文字案對一般民眾來講可能很不解的就是在高等法院已經定驗了判刑三十年之後涉案人還能夠潛逃失聯那直接的原因是高等法院你們在去年的這個\n十月中旬的這個劣勢加保的裁定那這個裁定呢是換取不予延長科技監控的決定但是依照我們這邊所得到的這個相關的資料沒有依法公告也沒有送達檢調機關對不起檢查機關也沒有通知當事人辯護人以至於檢方完全喪失抗告的這個可能程序最主要是程序感覺好像蕩然無存\n所以然後事後檢院之間的通報電話紀錄又還有不同的版本那行政程序到資訊的紀錄都不太明顯那就讓人有一種偽造的疑慮所以這讓人家想到有點像是法官的審理權的濫用跟法院內部程序是不是已經失控那它好像不是一個個案的問題而是司法機關制度性風險的一個問題\n那劣勢裁定以本席這邊所了解的是刑事訴訟法第455條以下規定的特例程序設定的目的是犯罪輕微案件單純的情形但是經過被告同意之後由法院不經延遲辯論迅速裁定那麼在監控處分跟保釋條件還有科技設備使用等直接干預人身自由的情境當中\n引用的劣勢程序那法律依據是什麼呢程序上是不是應該進行刑事訴訟法第101條關於羈押監控延長的公開審理與通知義務那這個部分是不是可以就教副秘書長\n好那個謝謝委員垂詢那有關於那個委員關心這個議題其實我們在那個報告中就是已經有那個提及了這一個這一個案件他最主要那個為師其實並不是說就是這個裁定那個格式的那個問題而是說裁定呢他\n一定有法定的程序就是什麼時候成立什麼時候要對外生效那對外生效這個是一個最基本的你要不然的話就是當庭所做的呢就是以言詞把它宣示出來讓當庭所在的當事人他可以聽懂了說法院對我所做的裁定是什麼\n所以就只針對當事人所以相關的相關人等 不然的話就是說你沒有當庭宣誓的話你就要把它做成一個裁定書把它那個送達\n之後呢就當然還有那個公告的這一些那個程序那所以本件的那個問題並不是說他的這一個裁定的那個格式是不是用一個比較一個簡便的因為像那個最高法院他也承認說這個裁定他沒有一定的格式像我們在那個羈押的時候呢法官他會做一張押票這固定格式那這個謝謝複密署長本席在一開始就跟你們講說本席不想落入個案的一個討論\n但是就這個個案影響到了整個系統性的問題是本席最想要跟您就教的那要跟委員報告的是就是說其實在我們那個法院呢大部分的那個法官都是非常敬業而且都是課那個課刑就是刑事訴訟法所做的那個規定的所以這類那個裁定呢他之所以為什麼我們\n會進入那個懲處的那個程序它真的就是個案它真的就是個案那你們有沒有從這個個案再去檢視系統性有沒有失靈好 本席這邊提一下啦那你這個明文的規定對不起 明文的依據為什麼會是司法實務當中可以被啟動的處分形式如果它沒有一個明文的依據\n那你們有沒有存在其他同樣被劣勢處理但是沒有依法紀錄沒有送達或沒有給予救濟機會的案件那你們有沒有掌握這個統計數據或運用範圍你們剛才講這個個案嘛對不對我們目前除了這個我們不知道其他有這樣子為師的情形因為這就是一個為師有沒有可能有有沒有可能有有沒有可能有\n這個案件是因為眾所矚目嘛那其他有沒有像這樣子的狀況有可能 有沒有有沒有可能啦 妳覺得如果說從可能性的話這個我當然就是從機率上我沒有辦法說是那個不行那我想我們道分的這個法官可能還不太確定有沒有嘛\n所以你們有沒有可能就針對這樣一個相關的裁定形式是否浮現展開一些研究調查本席經常從個案會看整體性的一個問題所以本席這邊所提出來就是說你不太確定有沒有可能有這樣子的狀況那你們是不是藉這個機會也去檢視一下然後這中間為師的這個部分可以作為這系統性檢視的一個參考你們覺得呢\n是可以的 但是就是說裁定它是不要一定那個格式的妳講的是這個個案啦所以我在講這個整個我們那個通案就是說本來就是最高法院我們實務界這是我們大家慣行了就是裁定它沒有一定格式可是最重要的就是說你一定要把它裁定對外宣示出去這個才是爭點所以這個部分有沒有其他的案件會有現在這個情況\n有沒有可能有其他案件會有像這樣子的情況不是只有這個眾所矚目的中文制案件我們通常那個法官就是因為這就是一個為私行為通常那個法官都是依照那個法律規定在進行的好 就是這個通常嘛所以本席就是藉這個個案提醒您是不是有機會檢視一下檢視一下\n這個部分本席這邊再做一個建議啦是不是可以專案調查就劣勢裁定的適用範圍通知義務跟救濟保障還有相關案件失誤比例提出一些透明的統計數據那如果目前還沒有建立通報跟送達\n制度之標準作業程序希望不知道這個部分有沒有如果還沒有是不是可以由司法院統一來頒布規則並對全國的各級法院加以訓練跟監督其實我們相關於就是裁定的這些那個原本還有正本的那個製作那個不只是刑事訴訟法就是其他的司法院所頒的這些那個刑事審判記錄業務注意事項這些其實都已經有非常詳細的一個規定了\n所以複密署長您是覺得這樣一個情況這目前整個系統是除了這個個案沒有其他的問題的可能性還是說也有可能如果有可能本席這邊提出來的就是一個系統性的建議所以如同剛才我所講的假設有那是不是請你們就這一些案件去做一個系統性的了解跟分析然後相關的這個統計數據可不可以也去做一個整理\n司法院可以來做這一份那個 就是做這個分析啊那如果如您剛才所講的 您覺得這個相關的這個SOP是OK的 您也藉這個機會來檢視一下 那我們整體是不是在這樣子的事件上還有再進一步跟大家宣導監督的一個必要性這是我一個建議 好 謝謝委員好 謝謝蜂蜜署長 不好意思我再用一點點時間齁那法務部 不好意思 法務部長\n好那剛才本來是有三個議題啦那我現在就進行第二個議題那第三個議題因為時間關係我想改天我們再來做一個處理那針對這個法務部這個議題我想這很多委員都關注的也就是詐欺犯量刑過輕的這個問題\n所以這一直是社會的焦點所以我們基本上是希望對現行法制跟量刑實務沒有辦法反映社會對詐欺犯詐欺嚴重性的一個問題所以本席這邊其實要提出來本席其實也提了一些法案所以民眾在目前\n被詐欺所影響的直接或間接的狀況其實是非常嚴重的那我們知道整個詐欺罪你們的統計在2017年到2021年詐欺罪確定的大約有7萬人然後被判處6個月以下的大概佔了43%那3年以上的徒刑\n大概不足1%大概差不多只有355人那這樣的數據很令人憂心顯示現在量刑好像沒有辦法針對其對人民的危害而有一些實質的反應所以現行的刑法第339條對於一般詐欺犯涉的五年以下的徒刑而且還可以異科罰金\n感覺好像沒有辦法有嚇阻的作用因為詐欺本身是高報酬低風險的違法行為模式那現在詐欺案件屢見不鮮\n應該是有一個制度性的漏洞所以大家現在能夠比較提出來的實務性操作就是加重詐欺罪所以在刑法第339條之四現在僅設一年以上七年以下的徒刑那對於網路還有冒用公部門現在詐欺從個人又變成一個集體行為甚至利用AI這些很難辨別的假訊息它的整個處罰實在過輕\n那上次其實詐欺本席上次也提到但是法務部這邊提講的大概就是比較前端的有關於警政系統但是我想後端的阻嚇作用是非常重要的所以包括本席還有很多委員都對刑法第339條的之三跟四提出一些修正草案將一級的詐欺罪提高到五年以上十二年以下的徒刑加重詐欺罪者\n無期徒刑或七年以上情節重大者可以到十年以上這樣明確回應社會對打擊詐騙的高度期待那凸顯我們目前現行的量刑跟社會的現實有一些脫節因為整個統計數據來講輕型化的趨勢就越演越烈那現行的法定刑責跟量刑\n的適當性讓大家很疑慮所以不知道部長您是不是同意本席剛才所談的這個量刑\n謝謝委員的一個指教那的確是那個詐欺罪是讓全民共憤這是全民公敵那輕判的這個問題事實上外面的確是整個房間的確是有相當的質疑那這部分以現行來講我們也這個刑法的這個是不是過輕這個跟委員報告這個在去年的7月30日要施行的詐欺危害防治條例事實上在第42條\n第43條裡面它有判刑法339-4剛才我有提到339-4的這些的如果詐欺達到500萬就3年以上10年以下的一個刑度如果說超過1億的達到1億的是5到12年那這邊還可以併科3億\n3億以下的一個罰金 事實上去年就已經對這部分有做一些我們過了詐欺司法裡面這邊明確的針對犯罪行為跟刑期都有提高那44條裡面就是剛剛339之4裡面的那些只要以一個複合型的這是有兩個的話就是\n就是在那個有蝦類就是有這樣有複合型的這些的詐欺的行為的話是再加二分之一那如果在這發起主持操縱的這些這些詐團這些領導的這些人這些是處5到12年的一個徒刑並克3億以下的一個罰金那另外這個事實上這個是全方位的另外這一種的話在50條我們檢查可以具體的一個酋刑那我們現在\n發文給檢察官就是如果有詐欺危害防治條例相關的這些的加重的這些比較重的這些的詐欺犯刑我們是請檢察官要具體的一個求刑那我想這樣可以遏阻這些詐欺的這些的這些的這犯刑我想也受到一些的一個成果\n那部長所以本席這邊除了您剛才這個我們也談到修正的本席這邊所談到的五年跟十二年還有無期徒刑或七年這個部分您是不是針對本席現在所提出來的相關的法案然後還有您剛才講的我們去年通過了打炸四法做一些分析然後參考本席這邊談到的情節重大者的一個\n處罰跟罰則做一個相關的分析然後我們再來比較那去年的這個部分跟今年很多委員包括本席所提出來的法案那其中的對詐欺的嚇阻的效力是不是再做一個更進一步的分析跟檢討我們再用數目的資料再跟委員給委員來做一個報告不要忘記本席這邊也有提出無期徒刑的這個刑責是不是我們再做一個分析好的好謝謝主席好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.304 --> 00:11.053\n林委員不好意思先等一下因為待會部長10點要先離開剛剛黃國昌委員說兩個禮拜也有其他委員傳訊息給我說希望下下禮拜再安排一次\n\n00:20.926 --> 00:49.276\n就是就北檢的部分想要再就教法務部那這部分先跟部長說明一下那可能我們下禮拜還會再排一個類似的那個相關議程的那個會議那再麻煩部長能夠到時候過來好謝謝部長謝謝主席主席府院同仁大家好早安好那我就先請副秘書長\n\n00:50.489 --> 00:51.689\n在我們整個民主法制的社會當中司法制度的正當性跟透明性會影響到個案的正義的實現\n\n01:15.114 --> 01:40.755\n那也是維繫民眾對國家信賴的根本那本席今天想要從這個主題粵式裁定可能侵害人身自由的爭議跟第二個部分是詐欺犯罪這跟法務部比較有關詐欺犯罪因量刑過輕而造成社會的不安最後呢是大法官針對死刑核限做出的這個釋憲的模糊那我們看到在個別制度上的一個瑕疵\n\n01:42.055 --> 02:08.364\n而且司法權在程序設計跟實務操作上面臨的一個深層的挑戰所以本席希望在司法的這個部分如果沒有明確的依據應有的通知義務跟有效的救濟機制那會導致程序的濫用也會動搖民眾對正義的一個信仰因此本席今天提出的質詢是希望司法院與法務部能夠正視制度性風險\n\n02:09.884 --> 02:36.235\n然後來回應民意的期待那重建司法的信任與正當性所以我們就進入第一個有關於司法權核心正當性跟制度透明性的一個問題那也就是跟這個劣勢裁定有關法院在涉及科技設備監控等限制人身自由的處分所作出的劣勢裁定的依據與程序有沒有具備法律基礎或使用\n\n02:36.975 --> 02:58.554\n是否符合法定的要件跟憲法的一個原則還是或者是在這個實務上是不是有存在著這個制度的濫用權責的不清還有資訊不透明等現象我想前面也有委員把個案的細節闡述得蠻清楚的本席這邊想就系統性跟政策面來跟您就一個探討\n\n02:59.455 --> 03:16.069\n所以在這個我們都知道的中文字案對一般民眾來講可能很不解的就是在高等法院已經定驗了判刑三十年之後涉案人還能夠潛逃失聯那直接的原因是高等法院你們在去年的這個\n\n03:17.470 --> 03:45.234\n十月中旬的這個劣勢加保的裁定那這個裁定呢是換取不予延長科技監控的決定但是依照我們這邊所得到的這個相關的資料沒有依法公告也沒有送達檢調機關對不起檢查機關也沒有通知當事人辯護人以至於檢方完全喪失抗告的這個可能程序最主要是程序感覺好像蕩然無存\n\n03:45.974 --> 04:13.464\n所以然後事後檢院之間的通報電話紀錄又還有不同的版本那行政程序到資訊的紀錄都不太明顯那就讓人有一種偽造的疑慮所以這讓人家想到有點像是法官的審理權的濫用跟法院內部程序是不是已經失控那它好像不是一個個案的問題而是司法機關制度性風險的一個問題\n\n04:15.365 --> 04:40.115\n那劣勢裁定以本席這邊所了解的是刑事訴訟法第455條以下規定的特例程序設定的目的是犯罪輕微案件單純的情形但是經過被告同意之後由法院不經延遲辯論迅速裁定那麼在監控處分跟保釋條件還有科技設備使用等直接干預人身自由的情境當中\n\n04:41.331 --> 04:56.432\n引用的劣勢程序那法律依據是什麼呢程序上是不是應該進行刑事訴訟法第101條關於羈押監控延長的公開審理與通知義務那這個部分是不是可以就教副秘書長\n\n04:57.639 --> 05:18.617\n好那個謝謝委員垂詢那有關於那個委員關心這個議題其實我們在那個報告中就是已經有那個提及了這一個這一個案件他最主要那個為師其實並不是說就是這個裁定那個格式的那個問題而是說裁定呢他\n\n05:19.358 --> 05:37.251\n一定有法定的程序就是什麼時候成立什麼時候要對外生效那對外生效這個是一個最基本的你要不然的話就是當庭所做的呢就是以言詞把它宣示出來讓當庭所在的當事人他可以聽懂了說法院對我所做的裁定是什麼\n\n05:37.771 --> 05:49.016\n所以就只針對當事人所以相關的相關人等不然的話就是說你沒有當庭宣誓的話你就要把它做成一個裁定書把它那個送達\n\n05:51.027 --> 06:17.868\n之後呢就當然還有那個公告的這一些那個程序那所以本件的那個問題並不是說他的這一個裁定的那個格式是不是用一個比較一個簡便的因為像那個最高法院他也承認說這個裁定他沒有一定的格式像我們在那個羈押的時候呢法官他會做一張押票這固定格式那這個謝謝複密署長本席在一開始就跟你們講說本席不想落入個案的一個討論\n\n06:18.669 --> 06:39.338\n但是就這個個案影響到了整個系統性的問題是本席最想要跟您就教的那要跟委員報告的是就是說其實在我們那個法院呢大部分的那個法官都是非常敬業而且都是課那個課刑就是刑事訴訟法所做的那個規定的所以這類那個裁定呢他之所以為什麼我們\n\n06:40.118 --> 06:58.597\n會進入那個懲處的那個程序它真的就是個案它真的就是個案那你們有沒有從這個個案再去檢視系統性有沒有失靈好本席這邊提一下啦那你這個明文的規定對不起明文的依據為什麼會是司法實務當中可以被啟動的處分形式如果它沒有一個明文的依據\n\n07:00.455 --> 07:24.422\n那你們有沒有存在其他同樣被劣勢處理但是沒有依法紀錄沒有送達或沒有給予救濟機會的案件那你們有沒有掌握這個統計數據或運用範圍你們剛才講這個個案嘛對不對我們目前除了這個我們不知道其他有這樣子為師的情形因為這就是一個為師有沒有可能有有沒有可能有有沒有可能有\n\n07:25.838 --> 07:43.102\n這個案件是因為眾所矚目嘛那其他有沒有像這樣子的狀況有可能有沒有有沒有可能啦妳覺得如果說從可能性的話這個我當然就是從機率上我沒有辦法說是那個不行那我想我們道分的這個法官可能還不太確定有沒有嘛\n\n07:43.502 --> 08:06.361\n所以你們有沒有可能就針對這樣一個相關的裁定形式是否浮現展開一些研究調查本席經常從個案會看整體性的一個問題所以本席這邊所提出來就是說你不太確定有沒有可能有這樣子的狀況那你們是不是藉這個機會也去檢視一下然後這中間為師的這個部分可以作為這系統性檢視的一個參考你們覺得呢\n\n08:07.239 --> 08:33.597\n是可以的但是就是說裁定它是不要一定那個格式的妳講的是這個個案啦所以我在講這個整個我們那個通案就是說本來就是最高法院我們實務界這是我們大家慣行了就是裁定它沒有一定格式可是最重要的就是說你一定要把它裁定對外宣示出去這個才是爭點所以這個部分有沒有其他的案件會有現在這個情況\n\n08:35.740 --> 08:56.125\n有沒有可能有其他案件會有像這樣子的情況不是只有這個眾所矚目的中文制案件我們通常那個法官就是因為這就是一個為私行為通常那個法官都是依照那個法律規定在進行的好就是這個通常嘛所以本席就是藉這個個案提醒您是不是有機會檢視一下檢視一下\n\n09:03.306 --> 09:20.131\n這個部分本席這邊再做一個建議啦是不是可以專案調查就劣勢裁定的適用範圍通知義務跟救濟保障還有相關案件失誤比例提出一些透明的統計數據那如果目前還沒有建立通報跟送達\n\n09:20.931 --> 09:47.289\n制度之標準作業程序希望不知道這個部分有沒有如果還沒有是不是可以由司法院統一來頒布規則並對全國的各級法院加以訓練跟監督其實我們相關於就是裁定的這些那個原本還有正本的那個製作那個不只是刑事訴訟法就是其他的司法院所頒的這些那個刑事審判記錄業務注意事項這些其實都已經有非常詳細的一個規定了\n\n09:48.650 --> 10:13.395\n所以複密署長您是覺得這樣一個情況這目前整個系統是除了這個個案沒有其他的問題的可能性還是說也有可能如果有可能本席這邊提出來的就是一個系統性的建議所以如同剛才我所講的假設有那是不是請你們就這一些案件去做一個系統性的了解跟分析然後相關的這個統計數據可不可以也去做一個整理\n\n10:14.688 --> 10:35.135\n司法院可以來做這一份那個就是做這個分析啊那如果如您剛才所講的您覺得這個相關的這個SOP是OK的您也藉這個機會來檢視一下那我們整體是不是在這樣子的事件上還有再進一步跟大家宣導監督的一個必要性這是我一個建議好謝謝委員好謝謝蜂蜜署長不好意思我再用一點點時間齁那法務部不好意思法務部長\n\n10:42.981 --> 10:58.326\n好那剛才本來是有三個議題啦那我現在就進行第二個議題那第三個議題因為時間關係我想改天我們再來做一個處理那針對這個法務部這個議題我想這很多委員都關注的也就是詐欺犯量刑過輕的這個問題\n\n11:00.242 --> 11:20.544\n所以這一直是社會的焦點所以我們基本上是希望對現行法制跟量刑實務沒有辦法反映社會對詐欺犯詐欺嚴重性的一個問題所以本席這邊其實要提出來本席其實也提了一些法案所以民眾在目前\n\n11:21.525 --> 11:41.774\n被詐欺所影響的直接或間接的狀況其實是非常嚴重的那我們知道整個詐欺罪你們的統計在2017年到2021年詐欺罪確定的大約有7萬人然後被判處6個月以下的大概佔了43%那3年以上的徒刑\n\n11:42.614 --> 12:03.969\n大概不足1%大概差不多只有355人那這樣的數據很令人憂心顯示現在量刑好像沒有辦法針對其對人民的危害而有一些實質的反應所以現行的刑法第339條對於一般詐欺犯涉的五年以下的徒刑而且還可以異科罰金\n\n12:07.071 --> 12:15.735\n感覺好像沒有辦法有嚇阻的作用因為詐欺本身是高報酬低風險的違法行為模式那現在詐欺案件屢見不鮮\n\n12:20.170 --> 12:44.389\n應該是有一個制度性的漏洞所以大家現在能夠比較提出來的實務性操作就是加重詐欺罪所以在刑法第339條之四現在僅設一年以上七年以下的徒刑那對於網路還有冒用公部門現在詐欺從個人又變成一個集體行為甚至利用AI這些很難辨別的假訊息它的整個處罰實在過輕\n\n12:46.651 --> 13:14.257\n那上次其實詐欺本席上次也提到但是法務部這邊提講的大概就是比較前端的有關於警政系統但是我想後端的阻嚇作用是非常重要的所以包括本席還有很多委員都對刑法第339條的之三跟四提出一些修正草案將一級的詐欺罪提高到五年以上十二年以下的徒刑加重詐欺罪者\n\n13:15.217 --> 13:40.204\n無期徒刑或七年以上情節重大者可以到十年以上這樣明確回應社會對打擊詐騙的高度期待那凸顯我們目前現行的量刑跟社會的現實有一些脫節因為整個統計數據來講輕型化的趨勢就越演越烈那現行的法定刑責跟量刑\n\n13:41.044 --> 13:49.349\n的適當性讓大家很疑慮所以不知道部長您是不是同意本席剛才所談的這個量刑\n\n13:51.725 --> 14:18.624\n謝謝委員的一個指教那的確是那個詐欺罪是讓全民共憤這是全民公敵那輕判的這個問題事實上外面的確是整個房間的確是有相當的質疑那這部分以現行來講我們也這個刑法的這個是不是過輕這個跟委員報告這個在去年的7月30日要施行的詐欺危害防治條例事實上在第42條\n\n14:20.565 --> 14:34.731\n第43條裡面它有判刑法339-4剛才我有提到339-4的這些的如果詐欺達到500萬就3年以上10年以下的一個刑度如果說超過1億的達到1億的是5到12年那這邊還可以併科3億\n\n14:41.334 --> 15:03.393\n3億以下的一個罰金事實上去年就已經對這部分有做一些我們過了詐欺司法裡面這邊明確的針對犯罪行為跟刑期都有提高那44條裡面就是剛剛339之4裡面的那些只要以一個複合型的這是有兩個的話就是\n\n15:04.494 --> 15:32.747\n就是在那個有蝦類就是有這樣有複合型的這些的詐欺的行為的話是再加二分之一那如果在這發起主持操縱的這些這些詐團這些領導的這些人這些是處5到12年的一個徒刑並克3億以下的一個罰金那另外這個事實上這個是全方位的另外這一種的話在50條我們檢查可以具體的一個酋刑那我們現在\n\n15:34.167 --> 15:54.078\n發文給檢察官就是如果有詐欺危害防治條例相關的這些的加重的這些比較重的這些的詐欺犯刑我們是請檢察官要具體的一個求刑那我想這樣可以遏阻這些詐欺的這些的這些的這犯刑我想也受到一些的一個成果\n\n15:54.998 --> 16:18.693\n那部長所以本席這邊除了您剛才這個我們也談到修正的本席這邊所談到的五年跟十二年還有無期徒刑或七年這個部分您是不是針對本席現在所提出來的相關的法案然後還有您剛才講的我們去年通過了打炸四法做一些分析然後參考本席這邊談到的情節重大者的一個\n\n16:20.254 --> 16:44.779\n處罰跟罰則做一個相關的分析然後我們再來比較那去年的這個部分跟今年很多委員包括本席所提出來的法案那其中的對詐欺的嚇阻的效力是不是再做一個更進一步的分析跟檢討我們再用數目的資料再跟委員給委員來做一個報告不要忘記本席這邊也有提出無期徒刑的這個刑責是不是我們再做一個分析好的好謝謝主席好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.304,"end":11.053,"text":"林委員不好意思先等一下因為待會部長10點要先離開剛剛黃國昌委員說兩個禮拜也有其他委員傳訊息給我說希望下下禮拜再安排一次"},{"start":20.926,"end":49.276,"text":"就是就北檢的部分想要再就教法務部那這部分先跟部長說明一下那可能我們下禮拜還會再排一個類似的那個相關議程的那個會議那再麻煩部長能夠到時候過來好 謝謝部長謝謝主席主席 府院同仁 大家好早安好 那我就先請副秘書長"},{"start":50.489,"end":51.689,"text":"在我們整個民主法制的社會當中司法制度的正當性跟透明性會影響到個案的正義的實現"},{"start":75.114,"end":100.755,"text":"那也是維繫民眾對國家信賴的根本那本席今天想要從這個主題粵式裁定可能侵害人身自由的爭議跟第二個部分是詐欺犯罪這跟法務部比較有關詐欺犯罪因量刑過輕而造成社會的不安最後呢是大法官針對死刑核限做出的這個釋憲的模糊那我們看到在個別制度上的一個瑕疵"},{"start":102.055,"end":128.364,"text":"而且司法權在程序設計跟實務操作上面臨的一個深層的挑戰所以本席希望在司法的這個部分如果沒有明確的依據應有的通知義務跟有效的救濟機制那會導致程序的濫用也會動搖民眾對正義的一個信仰因此本席今天提出的質詢是希望司法院與法務部能夠正視制度性風險"},{"start":129.884,"end":156.235,"text":"然後來回應民意的期待那重建司法的信任與正當性所以我們就進入第一個有關於司法權核心正當性跟制度透明性的一個問題那也就是跟這個劣勢裁定有關法院在涉及科技設備監控等限制人身自由的處分所作出的劣勢裁定的依據與程序有沒有具備法律基礎或使用"},{"start":156.975,"end":178.554,"text":"是否符合法定的要件跟憲法的一個原則還是或者是在這個實務上是不是有存在著這個制度的濫用 權責的不清還有資訊不透明等現象我想前面也有委員把個案的細節闡述得蠻清楚的本席這邊想就系統性跟政策面來跟您就一個探討"},{"start":179.455,"end":196.069,"text":"所以在這個我們都知道的中文字案對一般民眾來講可能很不解的就是在高等法院已經定驗了判刑三十年之後涉案人還能夠潛逃失聯那直接的原因是高等法院你們在去年的這個"},{"start":197.47,"end":225.234,"text":"十月中旬的這個劣勢加保的裁定那這個裁定呢是換取不予延長科技監控的決定但是依照我們這邊所得到的這個相關的資料沒有依法公告也沒有送達檢調機關對不起檢查機關也沒有通知當事人辯護人以至於檢方完全喪失抗告的這個可能程序最主要是程序感覺好像蕩然無存"},{"start":225.974,"end":253.464,"text":"所以然後事後檢院之間的通報電話紀錄又還有不同的版本那行政程序到資訊的紀錄都不太明顯那就讓人有一種偽造的疑慮所以這讓人家想到有點像是法官的審理權的濫用跟法院內部程序是不是已經失控那它好像不是一個個案的問題而是司法機關制度性風險的一個問題"},{"start":255.365,"end":280.115,"text":"那劣勢裁定以本席這邊所了解的是刑事訴訟法第455條以下規定的特例程序設定的目的是犯罪輕微案件單純的情形但是經過被告同意之後由法院不經延遲辯論迅速裁定那麼在監控處分跟保釋條件還有科技設備使用等直接干預人身自由的情境當中"},{"start":281.331,"end":296.432,"text":"引用的劣勢程序那法律依據是什麼呢程序上是不是應該進行刑事訴訟法第101條關於羈押監控延長的公開審理與通知義務那這個部分是不是可以就教副秘書長"},{"start":297.639,"end":318.617,"text":"好那個謝謝委員垂詢那有關於那個委員關心這個議題其實我們在那個報告中就是已經有那個提及了這一個這一個案件他最主要那個為師其實並不是說就是這個裁定那個格式的那個問題而是說裁定呢他"},{"start":319.358,"end":337.251,"text":"一定有法定的程序就是什麼時候成立什麼時候要對外生效那對外生效這個是一個最基本的你要不然的話就是當庭所做的呢就是以言詞把它宣示出來讓當庭所在的當事人他可以聽懂了說法院對我所做的裁定是什麼"},{"start":337.771,"end":349.016,"text":"所以就只針對當事人所以相關的相關人等 不然的話就是說你沒有當庭宣誓的話你就要把它做成一個裁定書把它那個送達"},{"start":351.027,"end":377.868,"text":"之後呢就當然還有那個公告的這一些那個程序那所以本件的那個問題並不是說他的這一個裁定的那個格式是不是用一個比較一個簡便的因為像那個最高法院他也承認說這個裁定他沒有一定的格式像我們在那個羈押的時候呢法官他會做一張押票這固定格式那這個謝謝複密署長本席在一開始就跟你們講說本席不想落入個案的一個討論"},{"start":378.669,"end":399.338,"text":"但是就這個個案影響到了整個系統性的問題是本席最想要跟您就教的那要跟委員報告的是就是說其實在我們那個法院呢大部分的那個法官都是非常敬業而且都是課那個課刑就是刑事訴訟法所做的那個規定的所以這類那個裁定呢他之所以為什麼我們"},{"start":400.118,"end":418.597,"text":"會進入那個懲處的那個程序它真的就是個案它真的就是個案那你們有沒有從這個個案再去檢視系統性有沒有失靈好 本席這邊提一下啦那你這個明文的規定對不起 明文的依據為什麼會是司法實務當中可以被啟動的處分形式如果它沒有一個明文的依據"},{"start":420.455,"end":444.422,"text":"那你們有沒有存在其他同樣被劣勢處理但是沒有依法紀錄沒有送達或沒有給予救濟機會的案件那你們有沒有掌握這個統計數據或運用範圍你們剛才講這個個案嘛對不對我們目前除了這個我們不知道其他有這樣子為師的情形因為這就是一個為師有沒有可能有有沒有可能有有沒有可能有"},{"start":445.838,"end":463.102,"text":"這個案件是因為眾所矚目嘛那其他有沒有像這樣子的狀況有可能 有沒有有沒有可能啦 妳覺得如果說從可能性的話這個我當然就是從機率上我沒有辦法說是那個不行那我想我們道分的這個法官可能還不太確定有沒有嘛"},{"start":463.502,"end":486.361,"text":"所以你們有沒有可能就針對這樣一個相關的裁定形式是否浮現展開一些研究調查本席經常從個案會看整體性的一個問題所以本席這邊所提出來就是說你不太確定有沒有可能有這樣子的狀況那你們是不是藉這個機會也去檢視一下然後這中間為師的這個部分可以作為這系統性檢視的一個參考你們覺得呢"},{"start":487.239,"end":513.597,"text":"是可以的 但是就是說裁定它是不要一定那個格式的妳講的是這個個案啦所以我在講這個整個我們那個通案就是說本來就是最高法院我們實務界這是我們大家慣行了就是裁定它沒有一定格式可是最重要的就是說你一定要把它裁定對外宣示出去這個才是爭點所以這個部分有沒有其他的案件會有現在這個情況"},{"start":515.74,"end":536.125,"text":"有沒有可能有其他案件會有像這樣子的情況不是只有這個眾所矚目的中文制案件我們通常那個法官就是因為這就是一個為私行為通常那個法官都是依照那個法律規定在進行的好 就是這個通常嘛所以本席就是藉這個個案提醒您是不是有機會檢視一下檢視一下"},{"start":543.306,"end":560.131,"text":"這個部分本席這邊再做一個建議啦是不是可以專案調查就劣勢裁定的適用範圍通知義務跟救濟保障還有相關案件失誤比例提出一些透明的統計數據那如果目前還沒有建立通報跟送達"},{"start":560.931,"end":587.289,"text":"制度之標準作業程序希望不知道這個部分有沒有如果還沒有是不是可以由司法院統一來頒布規則並對全國的各級法院加以訓練跟監督其實我們相關於就是裁定的這些那個原本還有正本的那個製作那個不只是刑事訴訟法就是其他的司法院所頒的這些那個刑事審判記錄業務注意事項這些其實都已經有非常詳細的一個規定了"},{"start":588.65,"end":613.395,"text":"所以複密署長您是覺得這樣一個情況這目前整個系統是除了這個個案沒有其他的問題的可能性還是說也有可能如果有可能本席這邊提出來的就是一個系統性的建議所以如同剛才我所講的假設有那是不是請你們就這一些案件去做一個系統性的了解跟分析然後相關的這個統計數據可不可以也去做一個整理"},{"start":614.688,"end":635.135,"text":"司法院可以來做這一份那個 就是做這個分析啊那如果如您剛才所講的 您覺得這個相關的這個SOP是OK的 您也藉這個機會來檢視一下 那我們整體是不是在這樣子的事件上還有再進一步跟大家宣導監督的一個必要性這是我一個建議 好 謝謝委員好 謝謝蜂蜜署長 不好意思我再用一點點時間齁那法務部 不好意思 法務部長"},{"start":642.981,"end":658.326,"text":"好那剛才本來是有三個議題啦那我現在就進行第二個議題那第三個議題因為時間關係我想改天我們再來做一個處理那針對這個法務部這個議題我想這很多委員都關注的也就是詐欺犯量刑過輕的這個問題"},{"start":660.242,"end":680.544,"text":"所以這一直是社會的焦點所以我們基本上是希望對現行法制跟量刑實務沒有辦法反映社會對詐欺犯詐欺嚴重性的一個問題所以本席這邊其實要提出來本席其實也提了一些法案所以民眾在目前"},{"start":681.525,"end":701.774,"text":"被詐欺所影響的直接或間接的狀況其實是非常嚴重的那我們知道整個詐欺罪你們的統計在2017年到2021年詐欺罪確定的大約有7萬人然後被判處6個月以下的大概佔了43%那3年以上的徒刑"},{"start":702.614,"end":723.969,"text":"大概不足1%大概差不多只有355人那這樣的數據很令人憂心顯示現在量刑好像沒有辦法針對其對人民的危害而有一些實質的反應所以現行的刑法第339條對於一般詐欺犯涉的五年以下的徒刑而且還可以異科罰金"},{"start":727.071,"end":735.735,"text":"感覺好像沒有辦法有嚇阻的作用因為詐欺本身是高報酬低風險的違法行為模式那現在詐欺案件屢見不鮮"},{"start":740.17,"end":764.389,"text":"應該是有一個制度性的漏洞所以大家現在能夠比較提出來的實務性操作就是加重詐欺罪所以在刑法第339條之四現在僅設一年以上七年以下的徒刑那對於網路還有冒用公部門現在詐欺從個人又變成一個集體行為甚至利用AI這些很難辨別的假訊息它的整個處罰實在過輕"},{"start":766.651,"end":794.257,"text":"那上次其實詐欺本席上次也提到但是法務部這邊提講的大概就是比較前端的有關於警政系統但是我想後端的阻嚇作用是非常重要的所以包括本席還有很多委員都對刑法第339條的之三跟四提出一些修正草案將一級的詐欺罪提高到五年以上十二年以下的徒刑加重詐欺罪者"},{"start":795.217,"end":820.204,"text":"無期徒刑或七年以上情節重大者可以到十年以上這樣明確回應社會對打擊詐騙的高度期待那凸顯我們目前現行的量刑跟社會的現實有一些脫節因為整個統計數據來講輕型化的趨勢就越演越烈那現行的法定刑責跟量刑"},{"start":821.044,"end":829.349,"text":"的適當性讓大家很疑慮所以不知道部長您是不是同意本席剛才所談的這個量刑"},{"start":831.725,"end":858.624,"text":"謝謝委員的一個指教那的確是那個詐欺罪是讓全民共憤這是全民公敵那輕判的這個問題事實上外面的確是整個房間的確是有相當的質疑那這部分以現行來講我們也這個刑法的這個是不是過輕這個跟委員報告這個在去年的7月30日要施行的詐欺危害防治條例事實上在第42條"},{"start":860.565,"end":874.731,"text":"第43條裡面它有判刑法339-4剛才我有提到339-4的這些的如果詐欺達到500萬就3年以上10年以下的一個刑度如果說超過1億的達到1億的是5到12年那這邊還可以併科3億"},{"start":881.334,"end":903.393,"text":"3億以下的一個罰金 事實上去年就已經對這部分有做一些我們過了詐欺司法裡面這邊明確的針對犯罪行為跟刑期都有提高那44條裡面就是剛剛339之4裡面的那些只要以一個複合型的這是有兩個的話就是"},{"start":904.494,"end":932.747,"text":"就是在那個有蝦類就是有這樣有複合型的這些的詐欺的行為的話是再加二分之一那如果在這發起主持操縱的這些這些詐團這些領導的這些人這些是處5到12年的一個徒刑並克3億以下的一個罰金那另外這個事實上這個是全方位的另外這一種的話在50條我們檢查可以具體的一個酋刑那我們現在"},{"start":934.167,"end":954.078,"text":"發文給檢察官就是如果有詐欺危害防治條例相關的這些的加重的這些比較重的這些的詐欺犯刑我們是請檢察官要具體的一個求刑那我想這樣可以遏阻這些詐欺的這些的這些的這犯刑我想也受到一些的一個成果"},{"start":954.998,"end":978.693,"text":"那部長所以本席這邊除了您剛才這個我們也談到修正的本席這邊所談到的五年跟十二年還有無期徒刑或七年這個部分您是不是針對本席現在所提出來的相關的法案然後還有您剛才講的我們去年通過了打炸四法做一些分析然後參考本席這邊談到的情節重大者的一個"},{"start":980.254,"end":1004.779,"text":"處罰跟罰則做一個相關的分析然後我們再來比較那去年的這個部分跟今年很多委員包括本席所提出來的法案那其中的對詐欺的嚇阻的效力是不是再做一個更進一步的分析跟檢討我們再用數目的資料再跟委員給委員來做一個報告不要忘記本席這邊也有提出無期徒刑的這個刑責是不是我們再做一個分析好的好謝謝主席好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":417,"blocks":[["林委員倩綺：（9時40分）謝謝主席。主席、府院同仁，大家好、早安。我就先請副秘書長。"],["主席：麻煩副秘書長。"],["王副秘書長梅英：委員早安。"],["林委員倩綺：謝謝。副秘書長，基本上，我先做前言，我還是比較希望能夠針對政策面，整個系統性去處理。在民主法治的社會當中，司法制度的正當性跟透明性會影響到個案正義的實現，也是維繫民眾對國家信賴的根本。本席今天想要就幾個主題就教各位。第一個是「略式裁定」可能侵害人身自由的爭議；第二個部分是詐欺犯罪，這個跟法務部比較有關，就是詐欺犯罪因量刑過輕而造成社會的不安；最後是大法官針對死刑合憲作出釋憲的模糊，讓我們看到在個別制度上的一個瑕疵，而且司法權在程序設計跟實務操作上所面臨深層的挑戰。所以本席希望在司法的這個部分，如果沒有明確的依據、應有的通知義務，跟有效的救濟機制，會導致程序的濫用，也會動搖民眾對正義的信仰。因此，本席今天提出的質詢，是希望司法院與法務部能夠正視制度性風險，然後來回應民意的期待，重建司法的信任與正當性。","我們進入第一個有關於司法權核心正當性跟制度透明性的問題，也就是跟略式裁定有關，法院在涉及科技設備監控等限制人身自由的處分，所作出的略式裁定的依據與程序，有沒有具備法律基礎或使用是否符合法定的要件跟憲法的原則？或者在實務上，是不是有存在這個制度的濫用、權責的不清，還有資訊不透明等現象？我想前面也有委員把個案的細節闡述得蠻清楚的，本席這邊想就系統性跟政策面來跟您做一個探討。","我們都知道鍾文智案，對一般民眾來講，可能很不解的是高等法院已經定讞判刑30年之後，涉案人還能夠潛逃失聯，而直接的原因是高等法院在去年10月中旬的略式加保裁定，這個裁定是換取不予延長科技監控的決定，但是依照我們所得到的相關資料，沒有依法公告、沒有送達檢察機關，也沒有通知當事人、辯護人，以致檢方完全喪失抗告的可能，最主要是程序感覺好像蕩然無存。然後事後檢院之間的通報、電話紀錄，又還有不同的版本，行政程序到資訊的紀錄都不太明顯，讓人有一種偽造的疑慮，所以讓人家覺得有點是法官審理權的濫用跟法院內部程序是不是已經失控？但這好像不是個案的問題，而是司法機關制度性風險的問題。","略式裁定依本席所了解，是刑事訴訟法第四百五十五條以下規定的特例程序，設定的目的是針對犯罪輕微、案件單純的情形，經過被告同意之後，由法院不經言詞辯論迅速裁定刑罰，然而在監控處分、保釋條件，還有科技設備使用等直接干預人身自由的情境中，引用略式程序的法律依據是什麼呢？程序上，是不是應該踐行刑事訴訟法第一百零一條關於羈押、監控延長的公開審理與通知義務？這個部分是不是可以就教副秘書長？"],["王副秘書長梅英：好，謝謝委員垂詢。有關於委員關心的這個議題，其實我們在報告中已經有提及了，這一個案件最主要的違失，其實並不是裁定格式的問題，而是裁定有它一定法定的程序，就是什麼時候成立、什麼時候要對外生效，而對外生效這個是一個最基本的，要不然就是當庭所做以言詞宣示出來，讓當庭所在的當事人可以聽懂法院對我所做的裁定是什麼……"],["林委員倩綺：所以就只針對當事人，相關人等……"],["王副秘書長梅英：沒有，這個之後還有，如果沒有當庭宣示，就要把它做成裁定書然後送達，之後當然還有公告的這一些程序。所以本件的問題，並不是說裁定的格式是不是用了一個比較簡便的方式，因為像最高法院也承認裁定沒有一定的格式，不像我們在羈押的時候，法官會做一張押票，這是固定格式……"],["林委員倩綺：謝謝副秘書長，本席在一開始就跟你們講，我不想落入個案的討論，但是就這個個案所影響到整個系統性的問題，這是本席最想要跟您就教的。"],["王副秘書長梅英：要跟委員報告，其實在法院，大部分的法官都是非常敬業，而且課刑都是照刑事訴訟法所做的規定，而這一類裁定之所以會進入我們懲處的程序，因為它真的就是個案，它真的就是個案。"],["林委員倩綺：你們有沒有從這個個案再去檢視系統性是否失靈？本席提一下，如果沒有一個明文依據，為什麼它會是司法實務當中可以被啟動的處分形式？你們有沒有存在其他同樣被略式處理，但沒有依法紀錄、沒有送達或沒有給予救濟機會的案件？你們有沒有掌握相關統計數據跟運用範圍？你們剛才講這個是個案嘛，對不對？"],["王副秘書長梅英：目前除了這件，我們不知道是否有其他這樣子違失的情形。"],["林委員倩綺：所以你們不知道嘛！有沒有？"],["王副秘書長梅英：因為這就是一個違失……"],["林委員倩綺：有沒有可能有？"],["王副秘書長梅英：這就是一個違失。"],["林委員倩綺：有沒有可能有？這個案件是因為眾所矚目，其他有沒有像這樣子的狀況，有沒有？有沒有可能啦，你覺得？"],["王副秘書長梅英：如果說從可能性的話，當然從機率上，我們沒有辦法說是不行……"],["林委員倩綺：好的，所以副秘書長……"],["王副秘書長梅英：我們大部分的法官其實……"],["林委員倩綺：可能還不太確定有沒有嘛！"],["王副秘書長梅英：是。"],["林委員倩綺：所以你們有沒有可能針對這樣一個相關的裁定形式是否符憲，展開一些研究調查？本席經常會從個案看整體性的問題，因為你不太確定有沒有這樣子的狀況，是不是藉這個機會也去檢視一下，然後中間違失部分，可以作為系統性檢視的一個參考，您覺得呢？"],["王副秘書長梅英：是可以的，但就是說裁定它不是一定要那個格式，這個是我們……"],["林委員倩綺：你講的是這個個案啦，所以我在講這整個……"],["王副秘書長梅英：沒有，我們通案，本來最高法院、我們實務界，這是我們大家慣行了，就是裁定沒有一定格式，可是最重要的是一定要把裁定對外宣示出去，這個才是爭點。"],["林委員倩綺：所以有沒有其他的案件有現在這個情況？有沒有可能其他案件會有像這樣子的情況？不是只有這個眾所矚目的鍾文智案件。"],["王副秘書長梅英：因為這就是一個違失行為，通常法官都是依照法律規定在進行的。"],["林委員倩綺：就是這個「通常」嘛，所以本席就是藉這個個案提醒您，是不是有機會檢視一下？不知道你是不是能夠理解？"],["王副秘書長梅英：可以。"],["林委員倩綺：OK，好，謝謝。這個部分本席再做一個建議，是不是可以專案調查，就略式裁定的適用範圍、通知義務跟救濟保障，還有相關案件失誤比例，提出透明的統計數據？我不知道目前是否已建立通報跟送達制度之標準作業程序，如果還沒有，是不是可以由司法院統一頒布規則，並對全國各級法院加以訓練跟監督？"],["王副秘書長梅英：關於裁定的原本及正本的制作，不只是刑事訴訟法，司法院所頒的刑事審判紀錄業務注意事項對這些其實都已經有非常詳細的規定了。"],["林委員倩綺：所以副秘書長覺得目前整個系統除了這個個案外，沒有其他有問題的可能性？還是說也有可能？如果有可能，本席這邊提出來的就是一個系統性的建議，所以如同剛才我所講的，假設有，是不是請你們就這一些案件去做一個系統性的了解跟分析，相關的統計數據也去做一個整理？"],["王副秘書長梅英：司法院可以來做這個分析。"],["林委員倩綺：是，如果如您剛才所講的，您覺得相關的SOP是OK的，你也藉這個機會來檢視一下，是不是整體在這樣子的事件上還有再進一步跟大家宣導、監督的必要性？這是我的建議，好不好？"],["王副秘書長梅英：好，謝謝委員。"],["林委員倩綺：謝謝副秘書長。不好意思，我再用一點點時間。法務部部長，剛才本來有三個議題，我現在就進行第二個議題，第三個議題因為時間的關係，我想改天我們再來處理。針對法務部這個議題，我想這是很多委員都關注的，也就是詐欺犯量刑過輕的問題，這一直是社會的焦點，現行法制跟量刑實務沒有辦法反映社會對詐欺嚴重性的問題，所以本席這邊也提了一些法案，民眾目前被詐欺所影響的直接或間接的狀況其實是非常嚴重的，我們知道整個詐欺罪，根據你們的統計，在2017年到2021年，詐欺罪確定的大約有七萬人，被判處六個月以下的大概占43%，三年以上徒刑的大概不足1%，差不多只有355人，這樣的數據很令人憂心，顯示現在量刑好像沒有辦法針對其對人民的危害有一些實質的反應。","現行刑法第三百三十九條，對於一般詐欺犯設五年以下徒刑，而且還可以易科罰金，感覺好像沒有辦法有嚇阻的作用。因為詐欺本身是高報酬、低風險的違法行為模式，現在詐欺案件屢見不鮮，應該是有一個制度性的漏洞，所以大家現在比較能夠提出來的實務性操作就是加重詐欺罪，在刑法第三百三十九條之四，現在僅設一年以上七年以下徒刑，對於網路還有冒用公部門的，現在詐欺又從個人變成集體行為，甚至利用AI這些很難辨別的假訊息，這整個處罰實在過輕。","其實本席上次也提到詐欺的問題，但是法務部講的大概就是比較前端關於警政系統部分，但是我想後端阻嚇作用是非常重要的，包括本席還有很多委員都對刑法第三百三十九條之三跟之四提出一些修正草案，將一級詐欺罪提高到五年以上十二年以下徒刑，加重詐欺罪處無期徒刑或七年以上，情節重大者可以到十年以上，明確回應社會對打擊詐騙的高度期待，凸顯現行的量刑跟社會現實有一些脫節。依整個統計數據來講，輕刑化的趨勢越演越烈，現行法定刑責跟量刑的適當性讓大家很疑慮，不知道部長您是不是同意本席剛才所談的這個量刑？"],["鄭部長銘謙：謝謝委員的指教，的確詐欺罪是讓全民共憤，這是全民公敵，關於輕判的問題，事實上整個坊間的確有相當的質疑，以現行來講，對於刑法是不是過輕問題，這個跟委員報告，在去年7月31號施行的詐欺危害防制條例，第四十三條規定有犯刑法第三百三十九條之四者，即剛才委員有提到第三百三十九條之四，若詐欺達到500萬，就是三年以上十年以下刑度，如果超過1億、達到1億的是五到十二年，這邊還可以併科3億以下的罰金，事實上去年就已經對這部分有做一個……"],["林委員倩綺：你是說我們通過的詐欺四法裡面……"],["鄭部長銘謙：對，其中有……"],["林委員倩綺：這邊明確針對這樣的犯罪行為跟刑期……"],["鄭部長銘謙：對，都有提高，另外跟委員報告，第四十四條也規定，就是剛才提到第三百三十九條之四裡面的犯行，只要是有複合型的詐欺行為，就再加二分之一，如果是發起、主持、操縱這些詐團的領導人處五到十二年的徒刑，併科3億以下的罰金。事實上這是全方位的，另外在第五十條，檢察官可以具體求刑，我們現在也發文給檢察官，如果有詐欺危害防制條例相關加重的、比較重的這些詐欺犯行，我們請檢察官要具體求刑，這樣可以遏止這些詐欺的犯行，我想這也收到一些成果。"],["林委員倩綺：部長，除了我們剛才談到的，本席這邊談到修正的五年跟十二年，還有無期徒刑或七年，這部分您是不是針對本席現在所提出來的相關法案，還有您剛才講的，將去年通過的打詐四法做一些分析，然後參考本席這邊談到情節重大者的處罰跟罰則，將其做相關分析之後，再來比較去年跟今年很多委員提出的，包括本席所提出來的法案，其中對詐欺嚇阻的效力是不是再做更進一步的分析跟檢討？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們再用書面資料跟委員報告。"],["林委員倩綺：不要忘記本席這邊也有提出無期徒刑的刑責。"],["鄭部長銘謙：是，我們會再做分析。"],["林委員倩綺：好的，謝謝。"],["鄭部長銘謙：謝謝委員。"],["林委員倩綺：謝謝主席。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","我們下一位請王義川委員發言。","王委員，部長有事要先離開。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":112,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-8","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","陳培瑜","林倩綺","王義川","王鴻薇","吳思瑤","翁曉玲","張啓楷","林月琴","莊瑞雄","羅智強","沈發惠"],"page_start":51,"meetingDate":["2025-04-10"],"gazette_id":"1143702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143702_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部矯正署、內政部警政署、內政部移民署、海洋委員會\n海巡署率所屬相關單位列席就「法院作成『略式裁定』之依據、理由、法定程序、救濟方式，與\n科技設備監控處分變更、延長或撤銷之標準，並就執行現況，提供相關統計數據與策進作為」進\n行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143702_00002"}}}