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00:00:58,145\n那導致有非常多的研究員擔心自己的計畫受影響甚至還有人會擔心失去工作那本席當時也有表示因為我們的會談內容也都是完全透明的都有逐字稿都有上網那我也表示就是這樣的做法其實有可能會造成恐慌我們希望中研院該做的應該是積極面對並且遇到這個問題我們一起來協助同仁來解決並且我們一起來確保\n\n3\n00:01:02,927 --> 00:01:24,562\n未來不會有這樣的一個狀況來發生所以本席想要請教首先第一點這個所謂的預算假設有人受到影響你們現在有一個單一窗口讓大家來回報嗎有我們有這個發信給同仁假如有這個治安難行部分像學術處像副院長都可以回報\n\n4\n00:01:25,742 --> 00:01:54,467\n各種不同的不同的狀況我們都盡力調配這部分我們已經盡量在做了其實當時我也表示啦就是老實說中央議員的角色應該是要發信請同仁不要擔心而不是說我們遇到了問題你們如果沒問題的不用來找我有問題的個別來找我這會變成什麼解決問題的部分大家都看不到可是恐慌卻蔓延在全院沒有關係我是希望要有一個單一窗口啦\n\n5\n00:01:54,707 --> 00:02:12,294\n不需要各自去找那找誰找的效果也不一樣你們有辦法做好統計嗎有哪些人受到影響有沒有單一窗口回答我有沒有單一窗口協助同仁學術處處長陳建璋所以大家就是找學術處處長所以這個信件裡面都有提到嗎有找誰找我\n\n6\n00:02:13,375 --> 00:02:27,716\n就是找我我有發信給我們今年有拿到院內的計畫的這些同仁所以您是單一窗口對他們會找我您有沒有公告這個受影響的話單一窗口是您\n\n7\n00:02:29,247 --> 00:02:45,244\n我們這邊的表達是第一我們還是希望中研院應該是要來讓同仁知道說不會有問題中研院會來協助解決解決的單一窗口在這裡這樣的做法可以嗎\n\n8\n00:02:46,906 --> 00:03:09,658\n有沒有問題事實上我們院裡面也不會知道因為我們被凍了十二十一年多所以我們儘量我們希望儘量讓同仁不要擔心但你的信送出去是說你們都受到影響沒有關係我們現在就直接來看問題嘛您剛剛提到凍結的案既然這麼重要請問中研院有沒有送解凍報告過來\n\n9\n00:03:10,858 --> 00:03:38,148\n我們正在進行這個解凍的因為我們要根據立法院決議我們要能夠送出這個預算執行情形我們這三個單位預算執行情形我們仍然在進行當中我們院會的時候已經很早就已經決議了總統也已經公告了到現在還在處理零份事實上不只中研院所有的教安委員會的部會一份解凍報告都沒有送進來\n\n10\n00:03:39,048 --> 00:04:00,575\n那你們呢事實上你們的同意片事實上你們也提到嘛就是凍結11億其實只要提出專案報告我們同意就可以解凍我相信我們的林警召委也一定會來全力協助因為我們的專業同仁我們都希望不要受到影響我們學術研究很重要嘛那你們如果不提出來我們怎麼有辦法解凍呢\n\n11\n00:04:01,815 --> 00:04:22,639\n那什麼時候會提出很好我們會依規定提出來依規定時間提出來規定是誰規定您是院長啊所以是誰規定立法院規定的時間提出來欸對不起我們沒有說什麼時候規定送出來喔這一點不好意思喔院長你講清楚喔這個球不在我們這裡喔所以是林一錦張偉有跟您規定說是什麼時候要送出來嗎沒有張偉搖頭啊我們沒有任何規定說什麼時候\n\n12\n00:04:30,168 --> 00:04:57,400\n立法院決議是要我們做預算執行情形的報告我們要把預算執行情形整清楚之後才能夠抓到報告因為總共有十多億我們不能做十頁報告一頁解凍一億所以我們要做詳盡的報告我們33個所中心就需要一點時間避免出錯所以院長您可不可以收回您剛剛的說法我們沒有規定您什麼時候才能送進來喔\n\n13\n00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:22,508\n沒有規定的話我們就要立法院的慣例處理慣例就是ASAPAssoonaspossible這是考驗大家的這個團結力量嘛是沒錯那我們也是所以我問您什麼時候可以準備好啊民眾院長你沒有規劃一個時間同仁怎麼來依循呢我們現在預計我們快完成了預計在幾個禮拜之內我們就可以送幾個禮拜之內好幾個禮拜\n\n14\n00:05:26,149 --> 00:05:46,384\n兩個禮拜二十個禮拜三十個禮拜不會是兩三個禮拜一兩個禮拜到兩三個禮拜就好謝謝謝謝院長同時喔其實我也理解啦因為院會的金額真的比較高11億嘛我們大家都有共識接下來我們的這個我們作為專案報告我們全力來協助但是委員會凍結1250萬只要書面報告就可以解凍為什麼到現在也不交報告\n\n15\n00:05:51,327 --> 00:06:11,168\n我們希望說兩個合在一起這一點部分我們確實是有討論過奇怪你發信的時候就發到全體同仁然後呢你每一個人你都來說影響你解凍的時候能解的趕快解啊你為什麼突然你講的好像很緊張結果呢你處理的時候能先處理的為什麼不先處理呢那個可以處理部分的金額事實上非常少\n\n16\n00:06:15,371 --> 00:06:39,524\n1250萬所以1250萬非常少對嗎我們請所有中央醫院的研究同仁都理解了我們院長的標準就是1250萬非常少可以先不送我們自然難行的部分是一些沒辦法留用的部分那其他的我們照委員講的時候我們已經盡量在處理好那這個我是希望您先送就能送因為這個東西到委員會報告不用專案報告好不好\n\n17\n00:06:41,365 --> 00:06:59,776\n太好了委員講不用專案報告我說的是委員會的1250萬我們下禮拜就送不用專案報告委員會的1250萬沒問題我們交報告就可以張委員理解嘛我們這個本來就是書宣報告就可以啊所以請跟同仁了解一下好不好這個是本來就是不用專案報告的\n\n18\n00:07:00,436 --> 00:07:11,602\n這部分是沒有問題但是跟委員報告說我們現在最自然難行的就是一些被刪被凍的部分又不能留用那這是為什麼大家會覺得說沒辦法凍院長您要有動作否則大家會懷疑是不是有人不送現在呢連媒體都在報導了\n\n19\n00:07:21,288 --> 00:07:41,417\n行政院是不是在擋解凍報告但是你們是對總統府報告所以你們應該沒有這個壓力所以不要自己給自己壓力黨派委員會凍結的只需要提交書面報告即可解凍同仁如果有告訴你要專案報告才可以解凍那就是有問題你要調查一下所以委員會的立刻送進來好不好這個我們同意\n\n20\n00:07:45,399 --> 00:08:00,556\n好接著我想我來詢問一下幾個點現在中研院的院內的同仁要做AI的研究能不能下載Deep-SeekR1的模型到自己的電腦上面安全的運行可不可以\n\n21\n00:08:02,377 --> 00:08:30,187\n委員好我是資訊服務處處長陳寗志按照目前規定以不能下載為原則如果真的要下載的話他必須要做好資安管控措施對不起我剛剛講的不是下載APP喔不是下載應用喔是下載這個模型喔不行你確定嗎確定現在所有的學者都說下載模型單機運行是沒有問題的喔您確定我們現在的對談是一致的喔是的\n\n22\n00:08:31,027 --> 00:08:43,355\n下載模型研究不行需要做資安控管需要報備所以模型運行在自己的電腦上是有資安問題的我們現在列入紀錄喔這個是政府的規定\n\n23\n00:08:44,415 --> 00:09:10,792\n所有中國的軟體硬體我請您研究一下所有的規定我們的理解就是不能下載APP不能下載應用服務同時去註冊它的服務可能是有資安的疑慮的可能會有各自的問題模型本身有學術的意義所以請您稍微幫同仁了解一下第二點請問同仁可不可以研讀DeepSeek的開放論文\n\n24\n00:09:11,993 --> 00:09:29,466\n論文當然是可以的論文可以嘛所以我想其實相關的這種開放的心態對AI發展非常重要如果沒有問題的就應該讓同仁放手去研究他山之石可以攻錯不管是誰的我們都要好好來瞭解同時我想未來AI的發展應該還會前進我想請教院長您覺得AI的發展結束了嗎還是會繼續發展下去\n\n25\n00:09:35,732 --> 00:09:54,577\n當然會繼續發展下去沒錯所以我想發展跟監管跟風險都是要做平衡的那同時我也想衛生中心院院長在AI的發展方面有沒有跟其他部會來做合作跟速發部有沒有合作跟國科會有沒有合作跟國防中心的算力有沒有合作\n\n26\n00:09:55,357 --> 00:10:17,459\n當然有當然有很多的interaction譬如說我們的算力主要是由國會的國網中心來support那我們現在也希望說組成全國的很多AI的專家一起來發展AI而不是大家分散的我想AI是一個競賽我們希望我們大家不要做自幹\n\n27\n00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:42,882\n所以我們特別也覺得這個灌籃高手的合作精神很重要我們也一起來打贏這場AI的競賽我們跟各部會一起最後最後一個問題我想沒有電就沒有AI啦面對全球減碳的浪潮您提出了近零五支箭那請教一下院長這五支箭你有沒有發現缺了哪一支箭\n\n28\n00:10:44,887 --> 00:11:08,865\n這五支箭的部分是我們認為說是社會上討論比較少的我們提出來讓大家討論不是說我們要做社會上已經在討論已經在做的我們就不會放在五支箭裡面是這個意思那您覺得核能現在社會上有在做嗎有在討論那有在討論之間不需要我們來提醒說社會需要討論這件事情所以禁令五支箭不是要做的只是大家沒在講的你確定這是這個說法嗎是我們能夠做的\n\n29\n00:11:11,727 --> 00:11:27,584\n核能現在中文音樂沒有這樣的人才也沒有這樣的設備我們沒有辦法做核能的研究五字鍵每樣我們都有經費有人員有團隊集合全國力量在大力推行當中即使做核能中文音樂沒有辦法來做核能的研究\n\n30\n00:11:31,104 --> 00:11:58,405\n好沒關係我們都列入紀錄了我想我們問了全世界最優秀的AI包含Solnet包含CHAIRGPT4.5包含Gorak3我們都問如果作為國家最高的研究機關我們要做近零五支箭五個項目我們應該要做什麼很抱歉每一個AI都把核能新核能的科技列進去結果您在這裡告訴我們中央醫院沒有能力來做這一塊的研究\n\n31\n00:11:59,365 --> 00:12:18,297\n我想這個人民包含我們全世界所有的國家關注研發的關注研究的都會非常失望我希望中研院要秉持著中立跟學術研究的良心不要有意識形態跟政治性我最後一個問題不好意思我們從來就沒有政治形態我們看到有一位無姓研究員到了民進黨中常會來進行報告\n\n32\n00:12:28,863 --> 00:12:47,939\n那提出了這個脫北入中的消息請問這個報告院長我們可以去哪裡下載我不知道我不知道這件事情這是個別研究員哪一位無線研究員這邊有很多新聞我不好意思講名字啊在座同仁有沒有知道\n\n33\n00:12:48,922 --> 00:13:17,783\n有一位吳姓社會所的研究員有舉手啦有知道沒有關係這件事情我們會關於這個學術研究的中立性獨立性我們希望院長能不能相關訊息了解一下那一些訊息回應到我們辦公室來可以嗎好我們個別研究員的言論我們非常尊重不管任何言論我們希望眾議院是一個大家能夠秉持學術自由言論自由的方向來做\n\n34\n00:13:18,083 --> 00:13:31,156\n但是他是以中研院研究員的身份出現在那裡而且有了一個單方面的結論所以我相信院長應該要能夠知道啦那當然我理解學術研究是自由的我們一起來捍衛謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9814\t13497\t好謝謝主席有請中研院院長好有請廖院長各位院長好我想在這個會期開始您謝謝有來我們的辦公室來進行拜會那有討論到這次的預算刪減其實我也提到網路上有非常多的抹黑 造謠 假訊息那我們也看到有中研院發信給各個研究員\n37398\t58145\t那導致有非常多的研究員擔心自己的計畫受影響甚至還有人會擔心失去工作那本席當時也有表示因為我們的會談內容也都是完全透明的都有逐字稿都有上網那我也表示就是這樣的做法其實有可能會造成恐慌我們希望中研院該做的應該是積極面對並且遇到這個問題我們一起來協助同仁來解決並且我們一起來確保\n62927\t84562\t未來不會有這樣的一個狀況來發生所以本席想要請教首先第一點這個所謂的預算假設有人受到影響你們現在有一個單一窗口讓大家來回報嗎有我們有這個發信給同仁假如有這個治安難行部分像學術處像副院長都可以回報\n85742\t114467\t各種不同的不同的狀況我們都盡力調配這部分我們已經盡量在做了其實當時我也表示啦就是老實說中央議員的角色應該是要發信請同仁不要擔心而不是說我們遇到了問題你們如果沒問題的不用來找我有問題的個別來找我這會變成什麼解決問題的部分大家都看不到可是恐慌卻蔓延在全院沒有關係我是希望要有一個單一窗口啦\n114707\t132294\t不需要各自去找那找誰找的效果也不一樣你們有辦法做好統計嗎有哪些人受到影響有沒有單一窗口回答我有沒有單一窗口協助同仁學術處處長陳建璋所以大家就是找學術處處長所以這個信件裡面都有提到嗎有找誰找我\n133375\t147716\t就是找我 我有發信給我們今年有拿到院內的計畫的這些同仁所以您是單一窗口對 他們會找我您有沒有公告這個受影響的話單一窗口是您\n149247\t165244\t我們這邊的表達是第一我們還是希望中研院應該是要來讓同仁知道說不會有問題中研院會來協助解決解決的單一窗口在這裡這樣的做法可以嗎\n166906\t189658\t有沒有問題事實上我們院裡面也不會知道因為我們被凍了十二十一年多所以我們儘量我們希望儘量讓同仁不要擔心但你的信送出去是說你們都受到影響沒有關係我們現在就直接來看問題嘛您剛剛提到凍結的案既然這麼重要請問中研院有沒有送解凍報告過來\n190858\t218148\t我們正在進行這個解凍的因為我們要根據立法院決議我們要能夠送出這個預算執行情形我們這三個單位預算執行情形我們仍然在進行當中我們院會的時候已經很早就已經決議了總統也已經公告了到現在還在處理零份事實上不只中研院所有的教安委員會的部會一份解凍報告都沒有送進來\n219048\t240575\t那你們呢 事實上你們的同意片事實上你們也提到嘛 就是凍結11億其實只要提出專案報告 我們同意就可以解凍我相信我們的林警召委也一定會來全力協助因為我們的專業同仁 我們都希望不要受到影響我們學術研究很重要嘛那你們如果不提出來 我們怎麼有辦法解凍呢\n241815\t262639\t那什麼時候會提出 很好我們會依規定提出來依規定時間提出來規定是誰規定 您是院長啊所以是誰規定立法院規定的時間提出來欸對不起我們沒有說什麼時候規定送出來喔這一點不好意思喔 院長你講清楚喔這個球不在我們這裡喔所以是林一錦 張偉有跟您規定說是什麼時候要送出來嗎沒有 張偉搖頭啊我們沒有任何規定說什麼時候\n270168\t297400\t立法院決議是要我們做預算執行情形的報告我們要把預算執行情形整清楚之後才能夠抓到報告因為總共有十多億我們不能做十頁報告一頁解凍一億所以我們要做詳盡的報告我們33個所中心就需要一點時間避免出錯所以院長您可不可以收回您剛剛的說法我們沒有規定您什麼時候才能送進來喔\n298400\t322508\t沒有規定的話我們就要立法院的慣例處理慣例就是ASAPAs soon as possible這是考驗大家的這個團結力量嘛是沒錯那我們也是所以我問您什麼時候可以準備好啊民眾院長你沒有規劃一個時間同仁怎麼來依循呢我們現在預計我們快完成了預計在幾個禮拜之內我們就可以送幾個禮拜之內好幾個禮拜\n326149\t346384\t兩個禮拜 二十個禮拜 三十個禮拜不會是兩三個禮拜一兩個禮拜到兩三個禮拜就好謝謝 謝謝院長同時喔 其實我也理解啦因為院會的金額真的比較高11億嘛 我們大家都有共識接下來我們的這個我們作為專案報告我們全力來協助但是委員會凍結1250萬只要書面報告就可以解凍為什麼到現在也不交報告\n351327\t371168\t我們希望說兩個合在一起這一點部分我們確實是有討論過奇怪你發信的時候就發到全體同仁然後呢你每一個人你都來說影響你解凍的時候能解的趕快解啊你為什麼突然你講的好像很緊張結果呢你處理的時候能先處理的為什麼不先處理呢那個可以處理部分的金額事實上非常少\n375371\t399524\t1250萬所以1250萬非常少 對嗎我們請所有中央醫院的研究同仁都理解了我們院長的標準就是1250萬非常少可以先不送我們自然難行的部分是一些沒辦法留用的部分那其他的我們照委員講的時候我們已經盡量在處理好 那這個我是希望您先送就能送因為這個東西到委員會報告不用專案報告 好不好\n401365\t419776\t太好了委員講不用專案報告我說的是委員會的1250萬我們下禮拜就送不用專案報告委員會的1250萬沒問題我們交報告就可以張委員理解嘛我們這個本來就是書宣報告就可以啊所以請跟同仁了解一下好不好這個是本來就是不用專案報告的\n420436\t431602\t這部分是沒有問題但是跟委員報告說我們現在最自然難行的就是一些被刪被凍的部分又不能留用那這是為什麼大家會覺得說沒辦法凍院長您要有動作否則大家會懷疑是不是有人不送現在呢連媒體都在報導了\n441288\t461417\t行政院是不是在擋解凍報告但是你們是對總統府報告所以你們應該沒有這個壓力所以不要自己給自己壓力黨派委員會凍結的只需要提交書面報告即可解凍同仁如果有告訴你要專案報告才可以解凍那就是有問題你要調查一下所以委員會的立刻送進來好不好這個我們同意\n465399\t480556\t好接著我想我來詢問一下幾個點現在中研院的院內的同仁要做AI的研究能不能下載Deep-Seek R1的模型到自己的電腦上面安全的運行可不可以\n482377\t510187\t委員好我是資訊服務處處長陳寗志按照目前規定以不能下載為原則如果真的要下載的話他必須要做好資安管控措施對不起我剛剛講的不是下載APP喔不是下載應用喔是下載這個模型喔不行你確定嗎確定現在所有的學者都說下載模型單機運行是沒有問題的喔您確定我們現在的對談是一致的喔是的\n511027\t523355\t下載模型研究不行需要做資安控管需要報備所以模型運行在自己的電腦上是有資安問題的我們現在列入紀錄喔這個是政府的規定\n524415\t550792\t所有中國的軟體硬體我請您研究一下所有的規定我們的理解就是不能下載APP不能下載應用服務同時去註冊它的服務可能是有資安的疑慮的可能會有各自的問題模型本身有學術的意義所以請您稍微幫同仁了解一下第二點請問同仁可不可以研讀DeepSeek的開放論文\n551993\t569466\t論文當然是可以的論文可以嘛所以我想其實相關的這種開放的心態對AI發展非常重要如果沒有問題的就應該讓同仁放手去研究他山之石可以攻錯不管是誰的我們都要好好來瞭解同時我想未來AI的發展應該還會前進我想請教院長您覺得AI的發展結束了嗎還是會繼續發展下去\n575732\t594577\t當然會繼續發展下去沒錯所以我想發展跟監管跟風險都是要做平衡的那同時我也想衛生中心院院長在AI的發展方面有沒有跟其他部會來做合作跟速發部有沒有合作跟國科會有沒有合作跟國防中心的算力有沒有合作\n595357\t617459\t當然有 當然有很多的interaction譬如說我們的算力主要是由國會的國網中心來support那我們現在也希望說組成全國的很多AI的專家一起來發展AI 而不是大家分散的我想AI是一個競賽我們希望我們大家不要做自幹\n618240\t642882\t所以我們特別也覺得這個灌籃高手的合作精神很重要我們也一起來打贏這場AI的競賽我們跟各部會一起最後最後一個問題我想沒有電就沒有AI啦面對全球減碳的浪潮您提出了近零五支箭那請教一下院長這五支箭你有沒有發現缺了哪一支箭\n644887\t668865\t這五支箭的部分是我們認為說是社會上討論比較少的我們提出來讓大家討論不是說我們要做社會上已經在討論已經在做的我們就不會放在五支箭裡面是這個意思那您覺得核能現在社會上有在做嗎有在討論那有在討論之間不需要我們來提醒說社會需要討論這件事情所以禁令五支箭不是要做的只是大家沒在講的你確定這是這個說法嗎是我們能夠做的\n671727\t687584\t核能現在中文音樂沒有這樣的人才也沒有這樣的設備我們沒有辦法做核能的研究五字鍵每樣我們都有經費有人員有團隊集合全國力量在大力推行當中即使做核能中文音樂沒有辦法來做核能的研究\n691104\t718405\t好 沒關係 我們都列入紀錄了我想我們問了全世界最優秀的AI包含Solnet 包含CHAIR GPT 4.5包含Gorak 3我們都問 如果作為國家最高的研究機關我們要做近零五支箭 五個項目我們應該要做什麼 很抱歉每一個AI都把核能 新核能的科技列進去結果您在這裡告訴我們中央醫院沒有能力來做這一塊的研究\n719365\t738297\t我想這個人民 包含我們全世界所有的國家關注研發的 關注研究的 都會非常失望我希望中研院要秉持著中立跟學術研究的良心不要有意識形態跟政治性我最後一個問題 不好意思我們從來就沒有政治形態我們看到有一位無姓研究員到了民進黨中常會來進行報告\n748863\t767939\t那提出了這個脫北入中的消息請問這個報告 院長 我們可以去哪裡下載我不知道 我不知道這件事情這是個別研究員 哪一位無線研究員這邊有很多新聞我不好意思講名字啊 在座同仁有沒有知道\n768922\t797783\t有一位吳姓社會所的研究員有舉手啦 有知道沒有關係 這件事情我們會關於這個學術研究的中立性 獨立性我們希望院長能不能相關訊息了解一下那一些訊息回應到我們辦公室來可以嗎好 我們個別研究員的言論我們非常尊重不管任何言論我們希望眾議院是一個大家能夠秉持學術自由 言論自由的方向來做\n798083\t811156\t但是他是以中研院研究員的身份出現在那裡而且有了一個單方面的結論所以我相信院長應該要能夠知道啦那當然我理解學術研究是自由的我們一起來捍衛謝謝\n","txt":"好謝謝主席有請中研院院長好有請廖院長各位院長好我想在這個會期開始您謝謝有來我們的辦公室來進行拜會那有討論到這次的預算刪減其實我也提到網路上有非常多的抹黑 造謠 假訊息那我們也看到有中研院發信給各個研究員\n那導致有非常多的研究員擔心自己的計畫受影響甚至還有人會擔心失去工作那本席當時也有表示因為我們的會談內容也都是完全透明的都有逐字稿都有上網那我也表示就是這樣的做法其實有可能會造成恐慌我們希望中研院該做的應該是積極面對並且遇到這個問題我們一起來協助同仁來解決並且我們一起來確保\n未來不會有這樣的一個狀況來發生所以本席想要請教首先第一點這個所謂的預算假設有人受到影響你們現在有一個單一窗口讓大家來回報嗎有我們有這個發信給同仁假如有這個治安難行部分像學術處像副院長都可以回報\n各種不同的不同的狀況我們都盡力調配這部分我們已經盡量在做了其實當時我也表示啦就是老實說中央議員的角色應該是要發信請同仁不要擔心而不是說我們遇到了問題你們如果沒問題的不用來找我有問題的個別來找我這會變成什麼解決問題的部分大家都看不到可是恐慌卻蔓延在全院沒有關係我是希望要有一個單一窗口啦\n不需要各自去找那找誰找的效果也不一樣你們有辦法做好統計嗎有哪些人受到影響有沒有單一窗口回答我有沒有單一窗口協助同仁學術處處長陳建璋所以大家就是找學術處處長所以這個信件裡面都有提到嗎有找誰找我\n就是找我 我有發信給我們今年有拿到院內的計畫的這些同仁所以您是單一窗口對 他們會找我您有沒有公告這個受影響的話單一窗口是您\n我們這邊的表達是第一我們還是希望中研院應該是要來讓同仁知道說不會有問題中研院會來協助解決解決的單一窗口在這裡這樣的做法可以嗎\n有沒有問題事實上我們院裡面也不會知道因為我們被凍了十二十一年多所以我們儘量我們希望儘量讓同仁不要擔心但你的信送出去是說你們都受到影響沒有關係我們現在就直接來看問題嘛您剛剛提到凍結的案既然這麼重要請問中研院有沒有送解凍報告過來\n我們正在進行這個解凍的因為我們要根據立法院決議我們要能夠送出這個預算執行情形我們這三個單位預算執行情形我們仍然在進行當中我們院會的時候已經很早就已經決議了總統也已經公告了到現在還在處理零份事實上不只中研院所有的教安委員會的部會一份解凍報告都沒有送進來\n那你們呢 事實上你們的同意片事實上你們也提到嘛 就是凍結11億其實只要提出專案報告 我們同意就可以解凍我相信我們的林警召委也一定會來全力協助因為我們的專業同仁 我們都希望不要受到影響我們學術研究很重要嘛那你們如果不提出來 我們怎麼有辦法解凍呢\n那什麼時候會提出 很好我們會依規定提出來依規定時間提出來規定是誰規定 您是院長啊所以是誰規定立法院規定的時間提出來欸對不起我們沒有說什麼時候規定送出來喔這一點不好意思喔 院長你講清楚喔這個球不在我們這裡喔所以是林一錦 張偉有跟您規定說是什麼時候要送出來嗎沒有 張偉搖頭啊我們沒有任何規定說什麼時候\n立法院決議是要我們做預算執行情形的報告我們要把預算執行情形整清楚之後才能夠抓到報告因為總共有十多億我們不能做十頁報告一頁解凍一億所以我們要做詳盡的報告我們33個所中心就需要一點時間避免出錯所以院長您可不可以收回您剛剛的說法我們沒有規定您什麼時候才能送進來喔\n沒有規定的話我們就要立法院的慣例處理慣例就是ASAPAs soon as possible這是考驗大家的這個團結力量嘛是沒錯那我們也是所以我問您什麼時候可以準備好啊民眾院長你沒有規劃一個時間同仁怎麼來依循呢我們現在預計我們快完成了預計在幾個禮拜之內我們就可以送幾個禮拜之內好幾個禮拜\n兩個禮拜 二十個禮拜 三十個禮拜不會是兩三個禮拜一兩個禮拜到兩三個禮拜就好謝謝 謝謝院長同時喔 其實我也理解啦因為院會的金額真的比較高11億嘛 我們大家都有共識接下來我們的這個我們作為專案報告我們全力來協助但是委員會凍結1250萬只要書面報告就可以解凍為什麼到現在也不交報告\n我們希望說兩個合在一起這一點部分我們確實是有討論過奇怪你發信的時候就發到全體同仁然後呢你每一個人你都來說影響你解凍的時候能解的趕快解啊你為什麼突然你講的好像很緊張結果呢你處理的時候能先處理的為什麼不先處理呢那個可以處理部分的金額事實上非常少\n1250萬所以1250萬非常少 對嗎我們請所有中央醫院的研究同仁都理解了我們院長的標準就是1250萬非常少可以先不送我們自然難行的部分是一些沒辦法留用的部分那其他的我們照委員講的時候我們已經盡量在處理好 那這個我是希望您先送就能送因為這個東西到委員會報告不用專案報告 好不好\n太好了委員講不用專案報告我說的是委員會的1250萬我們下禮拜就送不用專案報告委員會的1250萬沒問題我們交報告就可以張委員理解嘛我們這個本來就是書宣報告就可以啊所以請跟同仁了解一下好不好這個是本來就是不用專案報告的\n這部分是沒有問題但是跟委員報告說我們現在最自然難行的就是一些被刪被凍的部分又不能留用那這是為什麼大家會覺得說沒辦法凍院長您要有動作否則大家會懷疑是不是有人不送現在呢連媒體都在報導了\n行政院是不是在擋解凍報告但是你們是對總統府報告所以你們應該沒有這個壓力所以不要自己給自己壓力黨派委員會凍結的只需要提交書面報告即可解凍同仁如果有告訴你要專案報告才可以解凍那就是有問題你要調查一下所以委員會的立刻送進來好不好這個我們同意\n好接著我想我來詢問一下幾個點現在中研院的院內的同仁要做AI的研究能不能下載Deep-Seek R1的模型到自己的電腦上面安全的運行可不可以\n委員好我是資訊服務處處長陳寗志按照目前規定以不能下載為原則如果真的要下載的話他必須要做好資安管控措施對不起我剛剛講的不是下載APP喔不是下載應用喔是下載這個模型喔不行你確定嗎確定現在所有的學者都說下載模型單機運行是沒有問題的喔您確定我們現在的對談是一致的喔是的\n下載模型研究不行需要做資安控管需要報備所以模型運行在自己的電腦上是有資安問題的我們現在列入紀錄喔這個是政府的規定\n所有中國的軟體硬體我請您研究一下所有的規定我們的理解就是不能下載APP不能下載應用服務同時去註冊它的服務可能是有資安的疑慮的可能會有各自的問題模型本身有學術的意義所以請您稍微幫同仁了解一下第二點請問同仁可不可以研讀DeepSeek的開放論文\n論文當然是可以的論文可以嘛所以我想其實相關的這種開放的心態對AI發展非常重要如果沒有問題的就應該讓同仁放手去研究他山之石可以攻錯不管是誰的我們都要好好來瞭解同時我想未來AI的發展應該還會前進我想請教院長您覺得AI的發展結束了嗎還是會繼續發展下去\n當然會繼續發展下去沒錯所以我想發展跟監管跟風險都是要做平衡的那同時我也想衛生中心院院長在AI的發展方面有沒有跟其他部會來做合作跟速發部有沒有合作跟國科會有沒有合作跟國防中心的算力有沒有合作\n當然有 當然有很多的interaction譬如說我們的算力主要是由國會的國網中心來support那我們現在也希望說組成全國的很多AI的專家一起來發展AI 而不是大家分散的我想AI是一個競賽我們希望我們大家不要做自幹\n所以我們特別也覺得這個灌籃高手的合作精神很重要我們也一起來打贏這場AI的競賽我們跟各部會一起最後最後一個問題我想沒有電就沒有AI啦面對全球減碳的浪潮您提出了近零五支箭那請教一下院長這五支箭你有沒有發現缺了哪一支箭\n這五支箭的部分是我們認為說是社會上討論比較少的我們提出來讓大家討論不是說我們要做社會上已經在討論已經在做的我們就不會放在五支箭裡面是這個意思那您覺得核能現在社會上有在做嗎有在討論那有在討論之間不需要我們來提醒說社會需要討論這件事情所以禁令五支箭不是要做的只是大家沒在講的你確定這是這個說法嗎是我們能夠做的\n核能現在中文音樂沒有這樣的人才也沒有這樣的設備我們沒有辦法做核能的研究五字鍵每樣我們都有經費有人員有團隊集合全國力量在大力推行當中即使做核能中文音樂沒有辦法來做核能的研究\n好 沒關係 我們都列入紀錄了我想我們問了全世界最優秀的AI包含Solnet 包含CHAIR GPT 4.5包含Gorak 3我們都問 如果作為國家最高的研究機關我們要做近零五支箭 五個項目我們應該要做什麼 很抱歉每一個AI都把核能 新核能的科技列進去結果您在這裡告訴我們中央醫院沒有能力來做這一塊的研究\n我想這個人民 包含我們全世界所有的國家關注研發的 關注研究的 都會非常失望我希望中研院要秉持著中立跟學術研究的良心不要有意識形態跟政治性我最後一個問題 不好意思我們從來就沒有政治形態我們看到有一位無姓研究員到了民進黨中常會來進行報告\n那提出了這個脫北入中的消息請問這個報告 院長 我們可以去哪裡下載我不知道 我不知道這件事情這是個別研究員 哪一位無線研究員這邊有很多新聞我不好意思講名字啊 在座同仁有沒有知道\n有一位吳姓社會所的研究員有舉手啦 有知道沒有關係 這件事情我們會關於這個學術研究的中立性 獨立性我們希望院長能不能相關訊息了解一下那一些訊息回應到我們辦公室來可以嗎好 我們個別研究員的言論我們非常尊重不管任何言論我們希望眾議院是一個大家能夠秉持學術自由 言論自由的方向來做\n但是他是以中研院研究員的身份出現在那裡而且有了一個單方面的結論所以我相信院長應該要能夠知道啦那當然我理解學術研究是自由的我們一起來捍衛謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.814 --> 00:13.497\n好謝謝主席有請中研院院長好有請廖院長各位院長好我想在這個會期開始您謝謝有來我們的辦公室來進行拜會那有討論到這次的預算刪減其實我也提到網路上有非常多的抹黑造謠假訊息那我們也看到有中研院發信給各個研究員\n\n00:37.398 --> 00:58.145\n那導致有非常多的研究員擔心自己的計畫受影響甚至還有人會擔心失去工作那本席當時也有表示因為我們的會談內容也都是完全透明的都有逐字稿都有上網那我也表示就是這樣的做法其實有可能會造成恐慌我們希望中研院該做的應該是積極面對並且遇到這個問題我們一起來協助同仁來解決並且我們一起來確保\n\n01:02.927 --> 01:24.562\n未來不會有這樣的一個狀況來發生所以本席想要請教首先第一點這個所謂的預算假設有人受到影響你們現在有一個單一窗口讓大家來回報嗎有我們有這個發信給同仁假如有這個治安難行部分像學術處像副院長都可以回報\n\n01:25.742 --> 01:54.467\n各種不同的不同的狀況我們都盡力調配這部分我們已經盡量在做了其實當時我也表示啦就是老實說中央議員的角色應該是要發信請同仁不要擔心而不是說我們遇到了問題你們如果沒問題的不用來找我有問題的個別來找我這會變成什麼解決問題的部分大家都看不到可是恐慌卻蔓延在全院沒有關係我是希望要有一個單一窗口啦\n\n01:54.707 --> 02:12.294\n不需要各自去找那找誰找的效果也不一樣你們有辦法做好統計嗎有哪些人受到影響有沒有單一窗口回答我有沒有單一窗口協助同仁學術處處長陳建璋所以大家就是找學術處處長所以這個信件裡面都有提到嗎有找誰找我\n\n02:13.375 --> 02:27.716\n就是找我我有發信給我們今年有拿到院內的計畫的這些同仁所以您是單一窗口對他們會找我您有沒有公告這個受影響的話單一窗口是您\n\n02:29.247 --> 02:45.244\n我們這邊的表達是第一我們還是希望中研院應該是要來讓同仁知道說不會有問題中研院會來協助解決解決的單一窗口在這裡這樣的做法可以嗎\n\n02:46.906 --> 03:09.658\n有沒有問題事實上我們院裡面也不會知道因為我們被凍了十二十一年多所以我們儘量我們希望儘量讓同仁不要擔心但你的信送出去是說你們都受到影響沒有關係我們現在就直接來看問題嘛您剛剛提到凍結的案既然這麼重要請問中研院有沒有送解凍報告過來\n\n03:10.858 --> 03:38.148\n我們正在進行這個解凍的因為我們要根據立法院決議我們要能夠送出這個預算執行情形我們這三個單位預算執行情形我們仍然在進行當中我們院會的時候已經很早就已經決議了總統也已經公告了到現在還在處理零份事實上不只中研院所有的教安委員會的部會一份解凍報告都沒有送進來\n\n03:39.048 --> 04:00.575\n那你們呢事實上你們的同意片事實上你們也提到嘛就是凍結11億其實只要提出專案報告我們同意就可以解凍我相信我們的林警召委也一定會來全力協助因為我們的專業同仁我們都希望不要受到影響我們學術研究很重要嘛那你們如果不提出來我們怎麼有辦法解凍呢\n\n04:01.815 --> 04:22.639\n那什麼時候會提出很好我們會依規定提出來依規定時間提出來規定是誰規定您是院長啊所以是誰規定立法院規定的時間提出來欸對不起我們沒有說什麼時候規定送出來喔這一點不好意思喔院長你講清楚喔這個球不在我們這裡喔所以是林一錦張偉有跟您規定說是什麼時候要送出來嗎沒有張偉搖頭啊我們沒有任何規定說什麼時候\n\n04:30.168 --> 04:57.400\n立法院決議是要我們做預算執行情形的報告我們要把預算執行情形整清楚之後才能夠抓到報告因為總共有十多億我們不能做十頁報告一頁解凍一億所以我們要做詳盡的報告我們33個所中心就需要一點時間避免出錯所以院長您可不可以收回您剛剛的說法我們沒有規定您什麼時候才能送進來喔\n\n04:58.400 --> 05:22.508\n沒有規定的話我們就要立法院的慣例處理慣例就是ASAPAssoonaspossible這是考驗大家的這個團結力量嘛是沒錯那我們也是所以我問您什麼時候可以準備好啊民眾院長你沒有規劃一個時間同仁怎麼來依循呢我們現在預計我們快完成了預計在幾個禮拜之內我們就可以送幾個禮拜之內好幾個禮拜\n\n05:26.149 --> 05:46.384\n兩個禮拜二十個禮拜三十個禮拜不會是兩三個禮拜一兩個禮拜到兩三個禮拜就好謝謝謝謝院長同時喔其實我也理解啦因為院會的金額真的比較高11億嘛我們大家都有共識接下來我們的這個我們作為專案報告我們全力來協助但是委員會凍結1250萬只要書面報告就可以解凍為什麼到現在也不交報告\n\n05:51.327 --> 06:11.168\n我們希望說兩個合在一起這一點部分我們確實是有討論過奇怪你發信的時候就發到全體同仁然後呢你每一個人你都來說影響你解凍的時候能解的趕快解啊你為什麼突然你講的好像很緊張結果呢你處理的時候能先處理的為什麼不先處理呢那個可以處理部分的金額事實上非常少\n\n06:15.371 --> 06:39.524\n1250萬所以1250萬非常少對嗎我們請所有中央醫院的研究同仁都理解了我們院長的標準就是1250萬非常少可以先不送我們自然難行的部分是一些沒辦法留用的部分那其他的我們照委員講的時候我們已經盡量在處理好那這個我是希望您先送就能送因為這個東西到委員會報告不用專案報告好不好\n\n06:41.365 --> 06:59.776\n太好了委員講不用專案報告我說的是委員會的1250萬我們下禮拜就送不用專案報告委員會的1250萬沒問題我們交報告就可以張委員理解嘛我們這個本來就是書宣報告就可以啊所以請跟同仁了解一下好不好這個是本來就是不用專案報告的\n\n07:00.436 --> 07:11.602\n這部分是沒有問題但是跟委員報告說我們現在最自然難行的就是一些被刪被凍的部分又不能留用那這是為什麼大家會覺得說沒辦法凍院長您要有動作否則大家會懷疑是不是有人不送現在呢連媒體都在報導了\n\n07:21.288 --> 07:41.417\n行政院是不是在擋解凍報告但是你們是對總統府報告所以你們應該沒有這個壓力所以不要自己給自己壓力黨派委員會凍結的只需要提交書面報告即可解凍同仁如果有告訴你要專案報告才可以解凍那就是有問題你要調查一下所以委員會的立刻送進來好不好這個我們同意\n\n07:45.399 --> 08:00.556\n好接著我想我來詢問一下幾個點現在中研院的院內的同仁要做AI的研究能不能下載Deep-SeekR1的模型到自己的電腦上面安全的運行可不可以\n\n08:02.377 --> 08:30.187\n委員好我是資訊服務處處長陳寗志按照目前規定以不能下載為原則如果真的要下載的話他必須要做好資安管控措施對不起我剛剛講的不是下載APP喔不是下載應用喔是下載這個模型喔不行你確定嗎確定現在所有的學者都說下載模型單機運行是沒有問題的喔您確定我們現在的對談是一致的喔是的\n\n08:31.027 --> 08:43.355\n下載模型研究不行需要做資安控管需要報備所以模型運行在自己的電腦上是有資安問題的我們現在列入紀錄喔這個是政府的規定\n\n08:44.415 --> 09:10.792\n所有中國的軟體硬體我請您研究一下所有的規定我們的理解就是不能下載APP不能下載應用服務同時去註冊它的服務可能是有資安的疑慮的可能會有各自的問題模型本身有學術的意義所以請您稍微幫同仁了解一下第二點請問同仁可不可以研讀DeepSeek的開放論文\n\n09:11.993 --> 09:29.466\n論文當然是可以的論文可以嘛所以我想其實相關的這種開放的心態對AI發展非常重要如果沒有問題的就應該讓同仁放手去研究他山之石可以攻錯不管是誰的我們都要好好來瞭解同時我想未來AI的發展應該還會前進我想請教院長您覺得AI的發展結束了嗎還是會繼續發展下去\n\n09:35.732 --> 09:54.577\n當然會繼續發展下去沒錯所以我想發展跟監管跟風險都是要做平衡的那同時我也想衛生中心院院長在AI的發展方面有沒有跟其他部會來做合作跟速發部有沒有合作跟國科會有沒有合作跟國防中心的算力有沒有合作\n\n09:55.357 --> 10:17.459\n當然有當然有很多的interaction譬如說我們的算力主要是由國會的國網中心來support那我們現在也希望說組成全國的很多AI的專家一起來發展AI而不是大家分散的我想AI是一個競賽我們希望我們大家不要做自幹\n\n10:18.240 --> 10:42.882\n所以我們特別也覺得這個灌籃高手的合作精神很重要我們也一起來打贏這場AI的競賽我們跟各部會一起最後最後一個問題我想沒有電就沒有AI啦面對全球減碳的浪潮您提出了近零五支箭那請教一下院長這五支箭你有沒有發現缺了哪一支箭\n\n10:44.887 --> 11:08.865\n這五支箭的部分是我們認為說是社會上討論比較少的我們提出來讓大家討論不是說我們要做社會上已經在討論已經在做的我們就不會放在五支箭裡面是這個意思那您覺得核能現在社會上有在做嗎有在討論那有在討論之間不需要我們來提醒說社會需要討論這件事情所以禁令五支箭不是要做的只是大家沒在講的你確定這是這個說法嗎是我們能夠做的\n\n11:11.727 --> 11:27.584\n核能現在中文音樂沒有這樣的人才也沒有這樣的設備我們沒有辦法做核能的研究五字鍵每樣我們都有經費有人員有團隊集合全國力量在大力推行當中即使做核能中文音樂沒有辦法來做核能的研究\n\n11:31.104 --> 11:58.405\n好沒關係我們都列入紀錄了我想我們問了全世界最優秀的AI包含Solnet包含CHAIRGPT4.5包含Gorak3我們都問如果作為國家最高的研究機關我們要做近零五支箭五個項目我們應該要做什麼很抱歉每一個AI都把核能新核能的科技列進去結果您在這裡告訴我們中央醫院沒有能力來做這一塊的研究\n\n11:59.365 --> 12:18.297\n我想這個人民包含我們全世界所有的國家關注研發的關注研究的都會非常失望我希望中研院要秉持著中立跟學術研究的良心不要有意識形態跟政治性我最後一個問題不好意思我們從來就沒有政治形態我們看到有一位無姓研究員到了民進黨中常會來進行報告\n\n12:28.863 --> 12:47.939\n那提出了這個脫北入中的消息請問這個報告院長我們可以去哪裡下載我不知道我不知道這件事情這是個別研究員哪一位無線研究員這邊有很多新聞我不好意思講名字啊在座同仁有沒有知道\n\n12:48.922 --> 13:17.783\n有一位吳姓社會所的研究員有舉手啦有知道沒有關係這件事情我們會關於這個學術研究的中立性獨立性我們希望院長能不能相關訊息了解一下那一些訊息回應到我們辦公室來可以嗎好我們個別研究員的言論我們非常尊重不管任何言論我們希望眾議院是一個大家能夠秉持學術自由言論自由的方向來做\n\n13:18.083 --> 13:31.156\n但是他是以中研院研究員的身份出現在那裡而且有了一個單方面的結論所以我相信院長應該要能夠知道啦那當然我理解學術研究是自由的我們一起來捍衛謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.814,"end":13.497,"text":"好謝謝主席有請中研院院長好有請廖院長各位院長好我想在這個會期開始您謝謝有來我們的辦公室來進行拜會那有討論到這次的預算刪減其實我也提到網路上有非常多的抹黑 造謠 假訊息那我們也看到有中研院發信給各個研究員"},{"start":37.398,"end":58.145,"text":"那導致有非常多的研究員擔心自己的計畫受影響甚至還有人會擔心失去工作那本席當時也有表示因為我們的會談內容也都是完全透明的都有逐字稿都有上網那我也表示就是這樣的做法其實有可能會造成恐慌我們希望中研院該做的應該是積極面對並且遇到這個問題我們一起來協助同仁來解決並且我們一起來確保"},{"start":62.927,"end":84.562,"text":"未來不會有這樣的一個狀況來發生所以本席想要請教首先第一點這個所謂的預算假設有人受到影響你們現在有一個單一窗口讓大家來回報嗎有我們有這個發信給同仁假如有這個治安難行部分像學術處像副院長都可以回報"},{"start":85.742,"end":114.467,"text":"各種不同的不同的狀況我們都盡力調配這部分我們已經盡量在做了其實當時我也表示啦就是老實說中央議員的角色應該是要發信請同仁不要擔心而不是說我們遇到了問題你們如果沒問題的不用來找我有問題的個別來找我這會變成什麼解決問題的部分大家都看不到可是恐慌卻蔓延在全院沒有關係我是希望要有一個單一窗口啦"},{"start":114.707,"end":132.294,"text":"不需要各自去找那找誰找的效果也不一樣你們有辦法做好統計嗎有哪些人受到影響有沒有單一窗口回答我有沒有單一窗口協助同仁學術處處長陳建璋所以大家就是找學術處處長所以這個信件裡面都有提到嗎有找誰找我"},{"start":133.375,"end":147.716,"text":"就是找我 我有發信給我們今年有拿到院內的計畫的這些同仁所以您是單一窗口對 他們會找我您有沒有公告這個受影響的話單一窗口是您"},{"start":149.247,"end":165.244,"text":"我們這邊的表達是第一我們還是希望中研院應該是要來讓同仁知道說不會有問題中研院會來協助解決解決的單一窗口在這裡這樣的做法可以嗎"},{"start":166.906,"end":189.658,"text":"有沒有問題事實上我們院裡面也不會知道因為我們被凍了十二十一年多所以我們儘量我們希望儘量讓同仁不要擔心但你的信送出去是說你們都受到影響沒有關係我們現在就直接來看問題嘛您剛剛提到凍結的案既然這麼重要請問中研院有沒有送解凍報告過來"},{"start":190.858,"end":218.148,"text":"我們正在進行這個解凍的因為我們要根據立法院決議我們要能夠送出這個預算執行情形我們這三個單位預算執行情形我們仍然在進行當中我們院會的時候已經很早就已經決議了總統也已經公告了到現在還在處理零份事實上不只中研院所有的教安委員會的部會一份解凍報告都沒有送進來"},{"start":219.048,"end":240.575,"text":"那你們呢 事實上你們的同意片事實上你們也提到嘛 就是凍結11億其實只要提出專案報告 我們同意就可以解凍我相信我們的林警召委也一定會來全力協助因為我們的專業同仁 我們都希望不要受到影響我們學術研究很重要嘛那你們如果不提出來 我們怎麼有辦法解凍呢"},{"start":241.815,"end":262.639,"text":"那什麼時候會提出 很好我們會依規定提出來依規定時間提出來規定是誰規定 您是院長啊所以是誰規定立法院規定的時間提出來欸對不起我們沒有說什麼時候規定送出來喔這一點不好意思喔 院長你講清楚喔這個球不在我們這裡喔所以是林一錦 張偉有跟您規定說是什麼時候要送出來嗎沒有 張偉搖頭啊我們沒有任何規定說什麼時候"},{"start":270.168,"end":297.4,"text":"立法院決議是要我們做預算執行情形的報告我們要把預算執行情形整清楚之後才能夠抓到報告因為總共有十多億我們不能做十頁報告一頁解凍一億所以我們要做詳盡的報告我們33個所中心就需要一點時間避免出錯所以院長您可不可以收回您剛剛的說法我們沒有規定您什麼時候才能送進來喔"},{"start":298.4,"end":322.508,"text":"沒有規定的話我們就要立法院的慣例處理慣例就是ASAPAs soon as possible這是考驗大家的這個團結力量嘛是沒錯那我們也是所以我問您什麼時候可以準備好啊民眾院長你沒有規劃一個時間同仁怎麼來依循呢我們現在預計我們快完成了預計在幾個禮拜之內我們就可以送幾個禮拜之內好幾個禮拜"},{"start":326.149,"end":346.384,"text":"兩個禮拜 二十個禮拜 三十個禮拜不會是兩三個禮拜一兩個禮拜到兩三個禮拜就好謝謝 謝謝院長同時喔 其實我也理解啦因為院會的金額真的比較高11億嘛 我們大家都有共識接下來我們的這個我們作為專案報告我們全力來協助但是委員會凍結1250萬只要書面報告就可以解凍為什麼到現在也不交報告"},{"start":351.327,"end":371.168,"text":"我們希望說兩個合在一起這一點部分我們確實是有討論過奇怪你發信的時候就發到全體同仁然後呢你每一個人你都來說影響你解凍的時候能解的趕快解啊你為什麼突然你講的好像很緊張結果呢你處理的時候能先處理的為什麼不先處理呢那個可以處理部分的金額事實上非常少"},{"start":375.371,"end":399.524,"text":"1250萬所以1250萬非常少 對嗎我們請所有中央醫院的研究同仁都理解了我們院長的標準就是1250萬非常少可以先不送我們自然難行的部分是一些沒辦法留用的部分那其他的我們照委員講的時候我們已經盡量在處理好 那這個我是希望您先送就能送因為這個東西到委員會報告不用專案報告 好不好"},{"start":401.365,"end":419.776,"text":"太好了委員講不用專案報告我說的是委員會的1250萬我們下禮拜就送不用專案報告委員會的1250萬沒問題我們交報告就可以張委員理解嘛我們這個本來就是書宣報告就可以啊所以請跟同仁了解一下好不好這個是本來就是不用專案報告的"},{"start":420.436,"end":431.602,"text":"這部分是沒有問題但是跟委員報告說我們現在最自然難行的就是一些被刪被凍的部分又不能留用那這是為什麼大家會覺得說沒辦法凍院長您要有動作否則大家會懷疑是不是有人不送現在呢連媒體都在報導了"},{"start":441.288,"end":461.417,"text":"行政院是不是在擋解凍報告但是你們是對總統府報告所以你們應該沒有這個壓力所以不要自己給自己壓力黨派委員會凍結的只需要提交書面報告即可解凍同仁如果有告訴你要專案報告才可以解凍那就是有問題你要調查一下所以委員會的立刻送進來好不好這個我們同意"},{"start":465.399,"end":480.556,"text":"好接著我想我來詢問一下幾個點現在中研院的院內的同仁要做AI的研究能不能下載Deep-Seek R1的模型到自己的電腦上面安全的運行可不可以"},{"start":482.377,"end":510.187,"text":"委員好我是資訊服務處處長陳寗志按照目前規定以不能下載為原則如果真的要下載的話他必須要做好資安管控措施對不起我剛剛講的不是下載APP喔不是下載應用喔是下載這個模型喔不行你確定嗎確定現在所有的學者都說下載模型單機運行是沒有問題的喔您確定我們現在的對談是一致的喔是的"},{"start":511.027,"end":523.355,"text":"下載模型研究不行需要做資安控管需要報備所以模型運行在自己的電腦上是有資安問題的我們現在列入紀錄喔這個是政府的規定"},{"start":524.415,"end":550.792,"text":"所有中國的軟體硬體我請您研究一下所有的規定我們的理解就是不能下載APP不能下載應用服務同時去註冊它的服務可能是有資安的疑慮的可能會有各自的問題模型本身有學術的意義所以請您稍微幫同仁了解一下第二點請問同仁可不可以研讀DeepSeek的開放論文"},{"start":551.993,"end":569.466,"text":"論文當然是可以的論文可以嘛所以我想其實相關的這種開放的心態對AI發展非常重要如果沒有問題的就應該讓同仁放手去研究他山之石可以攻錯不管是誰的我們都要好好來瞭解同時我想未來AI的發展應該還會前進我想請教院長您覺得AI的發展結束了嗎還是會繼續發展下去"},{"start":575.732,"end":594.577,"text":"當然會繼續發展下去沒錯所以我想發展跟監管跟風險都是要做平衡的那同時我也想衛生中心院院長在AI的發展方面有沒有跟其他部會來做合作跟速發部有沒有合作跟國科會有沒有合作跟國防中心的算力有沒有合作"},{"start":595.357,"end":617.459,"text":"當然有 當然有很多的interaction譬如說我們的算力主要是由國會的國網中心來support那我們現在也希望說組成全國的很多AI的專家一起來發展AI 而不是大家分散的我想AI是一個競賽我們希望我們大家不要做自幹"},{"start":618.24,"end":642.882,"text":"所以我們特別也覺得這個灌籃高手的合作精神很重要我們也一起來打贏這場AI的競賽我們跟各部會一起最後最後一個問題我想沒有電就沒有AI啦面對全球減碳的浪潮您提出了近零五支箭那請教一下院長這五支箭你有沒有發現缺了哪一支箭"},{"start":644.887,"end":668.865,"text":"這五支箭的部分是我們認為說是社會上討論比較少的我們提出來讓大家討論不是說我們要做社會上已經在討論已經在做的我們就不會放在五支箭裡面是這個意思那您覺得核能現在社會上有在做嗎有在討論那有在討論之間不需要我們來提醒說社會需要討論這件事情所以禁令五支箭不是要做的只是大家沒在講的你確定這是這個說法嗎是我們能夠做的"},{"start":671.727,"end":687.584,"text":"核能現在中文音樂沒有這樣的人才也沒有這樣的設備我們沒有辦法做核能的研究五字鍵每樣我們都有經費有人員有團隊集合全國力量在大力推行當中即使做核能中文音樂沒有辦法來做核能的研究"},{"start":691.104,"end":718.405,"text":"好 沒關係 我們都列入紀錄了我想我們問了全世界最優秀的AI包含Solnet 包含CHAIR GPT 4.5包含Gorak 3我們都問 如果作為國家最高的研究機關我們要做近零五支箭 五個項目我們應該要做什麼 很抱歉每一個AI都把核能 新核能的科技列進去結果您在這裡告訴我們中央醫院沒有能力來做這一塊的研究"},{"start":719.365,"end":738.297,"text":"我想這個人民 包含我們全世界所有的國家關注研發的 關注研究的 都會非常失望我希望中研院要秉持著中立跟學術研究的良心不要有意識形態跟政治性我最後一個問題 不好意思我們從來就沒有政治形態我們看到有一位無姓研究員到了民進黨中常會來進行報告"},{"start":748.863,"end":767.939,"text":"那提出了這個脫北入中的消息請問這個報告 院長 我們可以去哪裡下載我不知道 我不知道這件事情這是個別研究員 哪一位無線研究員這邊有很多新聞我不好意思講名字啊 在座同仁有沒有知道"},{"start":768.922,"end":797.783,"text":"有一位吳姓社會所的研究員有舉手啦 有知道沒有關係 這件事情我們會關於這個學術研究的中立性 獨立性我們希望院長能不能相關訊息了解一下那一些訊息回應到我們辦公室來可以嗎好 我們個別研究員的言論我們非常尊重不管任何言論我們希望眾議院是一個大家能夠秉持學術自由 言論自由的方向來做"},{"start":798.083,"end":811.156,"text":"但是他是以中研院研究員的身份出現在那裡而且有了一個單方面的結論所以我相信院長應該要能夠知道啦那當然我理解學術研究是自由的我們一起來捍衛謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":223,"blocks":[["葛委員如鈞：（9時53分）謝謝主席，有請中研院院長。"],["主席：有請廖院長。"],["廖院長俊智：葛委員好。"],["葛委員如鈞：院長好。在這個會期開始，謝謝您有來我們的辦公室進行拜會，也有討論到這次的預算刪減，其實我也提到網路上有非常多的抹黑、造謠、假訊息，我們也看到中研院有發信給各個研究員，導致有非常多的研究員擔心自己的計畫受影響，甚至還有人擔心會失去工作。本席當時也有表示，因為我們的會談內容也都是完全透明的，都有逐字稿、都有上網，我也表示這樣的作法其實有可能會造成恐慌，我們希望中研院該做的應該是積極面對，並且遇到問題我們一起來協助同仁解決，並且我們一起來確保未來不會有這樣的狀況發生。本席想要請教，首先第一點，所謂的預算假設有人受到影響，你們現在有一個單一窗口讓大家來回報嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：有，我們有發信給同仁，假如有窒礙難行的部分，都可以向學術處、向副院長回報，對於各個不同的狀況，我們都盡力調配，這個部分我們已經儘量在做了。"],["葛委員如鈞：其實當時我也表示，老實說中研院的角色應該是要發信請同仁不要擔心，而不是我們遇到了問題，你們如果沒問題不用來找我，有問題的個別來找我，這會變成什麼？解決問題的部分大家都看不到，可是恐慌卻蔓延在全院。沒有關係，我是希望要有一個單一窗口，不需要各自去找，找誰效果也不一樣，你們有辦法做好統計嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：有。"],["葛委員如鈞：有哪些人受到影響，有沒有單一窗口？回答我有沒有單一窗口協助同仁。"],["陳處長建璋：學術處處長陳建璋……"],["葛委員如鈞：好，所以大家就是找學術處處長？"],["陳處長建璋：對，沒有錯。"],["葛委員如鈞：所以在這個信件裡面都有提到嗎？"],["陳處長建璋：有。"],["葛委員如鈞：找誰？"],["陳處長建璋：找我。"],["葛委員如鈞：好。"],["陳處長建璋：對，就是找我，我有發信給我們今年有拿到院內計畫的這些同仁，可能有受影響……"],["葛委員如鈞：所以您是單一窗口？"],["陳處長建璋：對，他們會找我，當然，就是我們學術處的同仁……"],["葛委員如鈞：不是，您有沒有公告受影響的話單一窗口是您？"],["陳處長建璋：單一窗口就是我。"],["葛委員如鈞：我這邊表達，第一，我們還是希望中研院應該是要讓同仁知道不會有問題，中研院會來協助解決，解決的單一窗口在這裡，這樣的作法可以嗎？"],["陳處長建璋：是。"],["廖院長俊智：這個有沒有問題事實上我們院裡面也不會知道，因為我們被凍了十一億多。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，很好，謝謝。"],["廖院長俊智：我們希望儘量讓同仁不要擔心。"],["葛委員如鈞：但你的信送出去是說你們都受到影響。沒有關係，我們現在就直接來看問題，您剛剛提到凍結案，既然這麼重要，請問中研院有沒有送解凍報告過來？"],["廖院長俊智：我們正在進行解凍的部分，因為根據立法院決議，我們要送出預算執行情形。"],["葛委員如鈞：不好意思……"],["廖院長俊智：我們33個單位預算執行情形仍然在進行當中。"],["葛委員如鈞：我們院會的時候很早就已經決議了，總統也已經公告了，到現在還在處理，還零份！事實上，不只中研院，所有教文委員會的部會，一份解凍報告都沒有送進來，事實上你們的投影片……"],["廖院長俊智：我們會在規定的時間裡面送，我們會送。"],["葛委員如鈞：事實上你們也提到，就是凍結11億其實只要提出專案報告，我們同意就可以解凍，我相信我們的林宜瑾召委也一定會全力協助，因為我們都希望中研院同仁不要受到影響。"],["廖院長俊智：是的。"],["葛委員如鈞：我們的學術研究很重要，你們如果不提出來，怎麼有辦法解凍呢！"],["廖院長俊智：我們會提出來。"],["葛委員如鈞：很好，什麼時候會提出？"],["廖院長俊智：我們會依規定時間提出來。"],["葛委員如鈞：規定是誰規定的？您是院長啊，所以是誰規定？"],["廖院長俊智：依立法院規定的時間提出來。"],["葛委員如鈞：對不起，我們沒有規定說什麼時候送出來喔！"],["廖院長俊智：沒有說什麼時間……"],["葛委員如鈞：這一點不好意思，院長，你講清楚喔！"],["廖院長俊智：那就要照……"],["葛委員如鈞：這個球不在我們這裡喔！所以是林宜瑾召委有跟您規定什麼時候要送出來嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：那我們就照……"],["葛委員如鈞：沒有，召委也搖頭啊！我們沒有任何規定什麼時候才能送啊！"],["廖院長俊智：立法院的決議是要我們做預算執行情形的報告，我們要把預算執行情形彙整清楚之後才能夠專案報告。"],["葛委員如鈞：很好。"],["廖院長俊智：因為總共有十多億，我們不能做10頁報告，1頁解凍1億，所以要做詳盡的報告，我們有33個所、中心，這需要一點時間，避免出錯，我們希望……"],["葛委員如鈞：對嘛！所以院長可不可以收回您剛剛的說法？我們沒有規定您什麼時候才能送進來喔！"],["廖院長俊智：沒有規定的話，我們就照立法院的慣例處理，立法院沒有規定，並不是說……"],["葛委員如鈞：慣例就是ASAP（as soon as possible），這是考驗大家的團結力量嘛，對不對？"],["廖院長俊智：是，沒錯，我們也是……"],["葛委員如鈞：所以我問您什麼時候可以準備好，您作為院長，沒有規劃一個時間，同仁怎麼來依循呢？"],["廖院長俊智：我們快完成了，預計在幾個禮拜之內就可以送。"],["葛委員如鈞：幾個禮拜之內，好，幾個禮拜？2個禮拜，20個禮拜，30個禮拜？"],["廖院長俊智：不會，1、2個禮拜到2、3個禮拜之內，沒問題。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，謝謝院長。同時，其實我也理解啦，因為院會的金額真的比較高，11億嘛，我們大家都有共識。"],["廖院長俊智：對。"],["葛委員如鈞：接下來做專案報告，我們全力來協助，但是委員會凍結1,250萬，只要書面報告就可以解凍，為什麼到現在也不交報告？"],["廖院長俊智：我們希望兩個合在一起，這部分我們確實是有討論過。"],["葛委員如鈞：奇怪，你發信的時候就發到全體同仁，然後每一個人你都來說會影響，你解凍的時候能解的趕快解啊！你講得好像很緊張，結果你處理的時候，能先處理的為什麼不先處理呢？"],["廖院長俊智：那個可以處理的部分事實上金額非常少，真正大的金額……"],["葛委員如鈞：1,250萬……"],["廖院長俊智：金額大的是……"],["葛委員如鈞：所以1,250萬非常少，對嗎？好，我們請所有中研院的研究同仁理解，院長的標準就是1,250萬非常少，可以先不送。"],["廖院長俊智：我們窒礙難行的部分是一些沒辦法流用的部分，其他的我們照委員講的，我們已經儘量在處理了。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，這個委員會的凍結……"],["廖院長俊智：沒辦法流用的部分……"],["葛委員如鈞：我是希望您能送的就先送，因為這個東西到委員會，不用做專案報告，好不好？"],["廖院長俊智：那太好了！委員講不用專案報告，好，那我們就這樣進行。"],["葛委員如鈞：沒有、沒有，我說的是委員會的1,250萬。"],["廖院長俊智：不用專案報告，我們下禮拜就送。"],["葛委員如鈞：委員會的1,250萬……"],["廖院長俊智：好，沒問題，我們……"],["葛委員如鈞：交報告就可以了啊！"],["廖院長俊智：不用專案報告，我們馬上送。"],["葛委員如鈞：召委也理解嘛，這個本來就是書面報告就可以，所以請跟同仁了解一下，好不好？"],["廖院長俊智：好，沒問題。"],["葛委員如鈞：因為這個本來就是不用專案報告的。"],["廖院長俊智：對，這部分是沒有問題。"],["葛委員如鈞：好。"],["廖院長俊智：但跟委員報告，我們現在最窒礙難行的就是一些被刪、被凍的部分又不能流用，這是為什麼大家會覺得說沒辦法動。"],["葛委員如鈞：不是，院長，您要有動作，否則大家會懷疑是不是有人不送，現在連媒體都在報導了，行政院是不是在擋解凍報告，但是你們是對總統府報告嘛。"],["廖院長俊智：對。"],["葛委員如鈞：所以你們應該沒有這個壓力嘛。"],["廖院長俊智：沒有，我們沒有。"],["葛委員如鈞：所以不要自己給自己壓力。"],["廖院長俊智：我們是要……"],["葛委員如鈞：趕快！委員會凍結的，只需要提交書面報告即可解凍。"],["廖院長俊智：對。"],["葛委員如鈞：同仁如果有告訴你要專案報告才可以解凍，那就是有問題，您要調查一下。"],["廖院長俊智：不是，我們都知道，我們這部分討論了很多……"],["葛委員如鈞：所以委員會凍結的立刻送進來，好不好？"],["廖院長俊智：我們知道，這個我們同意。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，接著我來詢問一下幾個點。"],["廖院長俊智：好。"],["葛委員如鈞：現在中研院院內的同仁要做AI的研究，能不能下載DeepSeek-R1的模型到自己的電腦上面安全的運行？可不可以？"],["陳處長伶志：委員好，我是資訊服務處處長陳伶志。按照目前的規定，是以不能下載為原則，如果真的要下載的話，他必須要做好資安管控措施。"],["葛委員如鈞：對不起，我剛剛講的不是下載app，不是下載應用，是下載這個模型。"],["陳處長伶志：不行。"],["葛委員如鈞：你確定嗎？"],["陳處長伶志：確定。"],["葛委員如鈞：現在所有的學者都說下載模型單機運行是沒有問題的，您確定我們現在的對談是一致的？"],["陳處長伶志：是的。"],["葛委員如鈞：下載模型研究不行？"],["陳處長伶志：需要做資安控管，需要報備。"],["葛委員如鈞：所以模型運行在自己的電腦上是有資安問題的，我們現在列入紀錄喔！"],["陳處長伶志：這個是政府的規定，所有中國的軟體、硬體、服務……"],["葛委員如鈞：我請您研究一下所有的規定，我們的理解就是不能下載app，不能下載應用服務，同時，去註冊它的服務可能是有資安疑慮的，可能會有個資的問題，模型本身有學術的意義，所以請您稍微幫同仁了解一下。第二點，請問同仁可不可以研讀DeepSeek的開放論文？"],["陳處長伶志：論文當然是可以的。"],["葛委員如鈞：論文可以嘛！所以我想這種開放的心態對AI發展非常重要，如果沒有問題的，就應該讓同仁放手去研究，它山之石，可以攻錯，不管是誰的，我們都要好好來了解，同時我想未來AI的發展應該還會前進。我想請教院長，您覺得AI的發展結束了嗎？還是會繼續發展下去？"],["廖院長俊智：當然會繼續發展下去。"],["葛委員如鈞：沒錯，所以我想發展跟監管跟風險，都是要做平衡的，同時我也想問中研院院長，在AI的發展方面，有沒有跟其他部會合作，跟數發部有沒有合作，跟國科會有沒有合作，跟國網中心的算力有沒有合作？"],["廖院長俊智：當然有，當然有很多的interaction，譬如說我們的算力主要是由國科會的國網中心來support，我們現在也希望組織全國很多AI的專家一起來發展AI，而不是大家分散來做。"],["葛委員如鈞：是啊，我想AI是一個競賽，我希望我們大家不要獨自幹，所以我特別覺得灌籃高手的合作精神很重要，我們也一起來打贏這一場AI的競賽。"],["廖院長俊智：謝謝。"],["葛委員如鈞：中研院跟各部會一起。"],["廖院長俊智：是的。"],["葛委員如鈞：最後一個問題，我想沒有電就沒有AI，面對全球減碳的浪潮，您提出了「淨零5支箭」，請教一下院長，這5支箭你有沒有發現缺了哪一支箭？"],["廖院長俊智：這5支箭的部分，我們認為是社會上討論比較少的，我們提出來讓大家討論，不是說我們要做，社會上已經在討論、在做的，我們就不會放在這5支箭裡面，是這個意思。"],["葛委員如鈞：您覺得核能現在社會上有在做嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：有在討論啊，有在討論的不需要我們來提醒社會需要討論這件事情。"],["葛委員如鈞：所以「淨零5支箭」不是要做的，只是大家沒在講的，你確定是這個說法嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：不是、不是，是我們能夠做的，現在中研院沒有核能這樣的人才，也沒有這樣的設備，我們沒有辦法做核能的研究。5支箭每樣我們都有經費、有人員、有團隊，集合全國力量在大力推行當中。即使要做核能，中研院也沒有辦法來做核能的研究。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，沒關係，我們都列入紀錄了。我們問了全世界最優秀的AI，包含Sonnet、ChatGPT 4.5、Grok 3，如果作為國家最高的研究機關要做「淨零5支箭」、五個項目，我們應該要做什麼？每一個AI都把新核能的科技列進去，結果您在這裡告訴我們，中研院沒有能力來做這一塊的研究……"],["廖院長俊智：這跟AI的不一樣……"],["葛委員如鈞：我想人民，包含我們全世界所有的國家……"],["廖院長俊智：我們不能把……"],["葛委員如鈞：關注研發、研究的人都會非常失望，我希望中研院要秉持中立跟學術研究的良心，不要有意識形態跟政治性。","我最後一個問題，不好意思……"],["廖院長俊智：我們從來沒有政治意識形態……"],["葛委員如鈞：主席已經站起來……"],["廖院長俊智：我們在講「淨零5支箭」從來都沒有政治意識形態。"],["葛委員如鈞：我們看到有一位吳姓研究員到了民進黨中常會進行報告，提出了「脫中入北」的消息，請問院長，這個報告，我們可以去哪裡下載？"],["廖院長俊智：我不知道這件事情，哪一位吳姓研究員？這邊有很多姓吳的……"],["葛委員如鈞：我不好意思講名字，在座同仁有沒有人知道？有一位社會所的吳姓研究員，有舉手了，有人知道，沒有關係，這件事情關於學術研究的中立性、獨立性，希望院長就相關訊息了解一下，把這些訊息回應到我們辦公室來，可以嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：好，個別研究員的言論，我們非常尊重，不管任何言論，我們希望中研院是一個大家能夠秉持學術自由、言論自由的方向來進行。"],["葛委員如鈞：但是他是以中研院研究員的身分出現在那裡，而且有一個單方面的結論，所以我相信院長應該要知道，當然我理解學術研究是自由的，我們一起來捍衛，謝謝。"],["廖院長俊智：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝葛如鈞召委，院長請回。","接下來請陳秀寳委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":50,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-6","speakers":["林宜瑾","林沛祥","柯志恩","劉書彬","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","郭昱晴","葉元之","張雅琳","吳沛憶","萬美玲","范雲","翁曉玲","羅廷瑋"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-04-10"],"gazette_id":"1143702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143702_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請中央研究院院長廖俊智列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143702_00001"}}}