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00:01:11,620\n我想請教一下院長跟您確認以您的專業您回答我按照我們標準的安全的核廢料處理高階核廢料的後續處理是不是就是先放在幹室儲存場然後再移到中期的戰存場最後移到最終處置的這個設施是不是這樣\n\n5\n00:01:14,384 --> 00:01:16,786\n理論上是先在場內的一個冷卻池之後的話才會移到場內的乾式儲存槽然後的話如果我們社會有共識能夠找到一個最終儲存場的話最終儲置場然後的話要移\n\n6\n00:01:30,339 --> 00:01:53,320\n因為其實我們按照這個標準的安全的核廢的路徑圖來講我們從燃料池出來之後會到乾式儲存的儲放然後到中期的暫時儲放之後我們會放到最終處置就是最終的處置設施嘛是標準的處理程序是這樣子嗎是那麼我想請教這個核廢料可以一直放在乾式儲存場嗎\n\n7\n00:01:55,451 --> 00:02:02,114\n理論上最好最後還是要有一個最終處置場但是很遺憾的是現在社會並沒有共識你們的這份報告上面有提到說核廢料可以一直只放在乾式儲存場就好不用後續處理嗎你上面有寫嗎這邊的話我們都沒有寫我們這邊的話都是取用台電以及這個核安會已經核定的報告所以這是你們的一個數據的統計這不是我們的統計這其實我們是引用別人的資料\n\n8\n00:02:22,864 --> 00:02:28,048\n引用別人資料來做你們的報告嗎現在其實做其實核廢料的處理剛剛我們有討論過了就是這個錄定就是說最後是還有包含就是說中期的暫時儲存跟最終的這個處置嘛那其實連美國到現在都還沒有找到最終處置的場址\n\n9\n00:02:41,297 --> 00:02:58,543\n那中期的暫存跟最終的處理的選址才是我們現在不能再繼續使用可能一個很大的關鍵那我也希望要藉這個機會讓你們中研院把話說清楚不要在這樣的情況之下混淆視天讓民眾誤解其實民眾現在誤以為說我們有很多的這個空間可以繼續來儲存這些核廢料而且不用再繼續處理我們可以繼續發展核能繼續產生核廢料是這樣嗎\n\n10\n00:03:10,848 --> 00:03:33,874\n跟委員報告台電以及經過和安會所核定的台電報告中提到的是乾式儲存槽如果按照目前的規劃的話他確實可能還有一些儲存的空間那最大的儲存的年限的話大概是50年但是在那個之後還是需要最終儲置場那很遺憾的是和安會已經試圖要去\n\n11\n00:03:35,774 --> 00:04:01,604\n這個尋找這個最終儲置場很多年了但是因為社會沒有共識很難所以很沒有辦法選擇到這個最終儲置場好院長您要說明我們這個報告寫得很清楚就是蓋好後才可以提供儲存換句話說有一些蓋了大部分都還沒有蓋好是這樣子的意思重點是在於乾式儲存它不是最終儲值對乾式儲存它只是一個暫時的\n\n12\n00:04:02,984 --> 00:04:14,318\n我們後續要處理的部分才是我們現在最棘手的那你們也做這樣的澄清了就是我們的核廢料不能不是只是一直放在乾式儲存場就可以不是永久我們最終的這個最終處置的部分沒有解決\n\n13\n00:04:18,823 --> 00:04:37,655\n所以現在這樣是不足以解決就是我們目前核廢掉的問題的好謝謝那再來我想請教我們核三廠的二號機將在五月十七就除役那接下來二零五零的近年排放的進度及相關科技的這些研發的進度也是大家都一直非常關心的議題\n\n14\n00:04:38,576 --> 00:04:47,804\n那中研院你們這個五大技能科技當中呢去碳燃氫已經在2023年在興達電廠啟動示範機組我想請教一下目前的進度怎麼樣我們現在在規模放大當中跟一些國內廠商合作希望把規模放大到能夠5MW的地步預計在2026年明年在興達電廠\n\n15\n00:05:05,859 --> 00:05:26,148\n能夠測試我們的規模放大的效果明年會測試規模放大那你們什麼時候預計投入商轉投入商轉要看規模放大的成果怎麼樣就是現在初期的測試是成效是很好的但是還沒有規模放大那明年我們會規模放大再來測試\n\n16\n00:05:27,368 --> 00:05:48,073\n對只要測試成功那我們當然接下來商轉的可能性就非常高假如測試沒有很成功我們還可以要多努力還可以往後再推幾年所以要明年規模放大測試之後才會知道說未來什麼時候投入商轉是的那有沒有預期說我們首次投入商轉可以帶來多少發電量這個有沒有一個規劃\n\n17\n00:05:51,233 --> 00:06:13,960\n這個我想這個事情都是要逐步的這個屈膽然青的技術可貴的地方就是它不是一次全有或全無它可以逐步增加它的含氫量也是可以逐步增加所以它可以是這個技術發展的狀況可以是這個成本的效果可以簡單的需要可以逐步增加所以院長的意思是說現在目前是沒有辦法評估要等明年這個擴大規模的測試之後才能夠知道\n\n18\n00:06:20,583 --> 00:06:40,781\n我們在進行科技中的地熱海洋能以及升值碳會目前好像比較沒有突破性的進展院長是不是要說明一下這三項計畫目前你們執行的情況在地熱方面我們在宜蘭園山已經跟中油合作專探國內首座的深層地熱的研究井到\n\n19\n00:06:42,562 --> 00:07:02,934\n這個禮拜為止已經鑽到1500公尺已經鑽1500公尺了這是已經是相當大的突破那我們預計年底應該可以鑽到4500公尺今年年底可以到3000公尺所以這方面持續在進行當中\n\n20\n00:07:04,518 --> 00:07:28,295\n那光電的部分我們剛才也提到說光電的部分我們最近有相當好的進展就是在高效光剛才您有展示過有這樣的成效這個方面是非常好的那在海洋能方面我們也開始測試在我們的海洋流發電機在高雄港裡面已經下水測試做浮力測試所以這個也持續都有進行當中\n\n21\n00:07:29,540 --> 00:07:51,418\n那關於生殖炭灰這個部分生殖炭灰部分我們跟農委會的敘事所在合作在培養在篩選下一世代的狼尾草作為牧草它的耐旱耐冷它的肥料的效應等等這個方面也有相當好的進展\n\n22\n00:07:52,208 --> 00:08:08,021\n所以其實都持續是有進度的但是每一個技術它對時程都不一樣譬如說生殖蛋會跟海洋人它可能時間會比較久一點院長你這邊你會後你把相關的這些資訊你一份資料給我辦公室\n\n23\n00:08:08,681 --> 00:08:14,185\n我是希望說中研院這邊要積極的辦理關於我們近鄰的這些相關科技的繼續的研發而且我們也要隨時關注我們整個世界的趨勢來盡快達成我們2050近鄰探訪這個目標那我這邊快速的先問一下好了就是我們中研院的這個預算被刪減的問題呢其實我們都知道說學術交流非常的重要\n\n24\n00:08:33,759 --> 00:08:52,605\n對於我們的這個國外旅費以及出國教育訓練費用招統15%這個部分呢想必也會影響到我們一些學術交流的活動讓我們一些優秀的學術研究人員沒有辦法順利的進行相關的學術交流及訓練我想知道的是我們中研院這邊因應的辦法是什麼\n\n25\n00:08:54,431 --> 00:09:15,760\n我們在可能的範圍裡面我們儘量由這個院方來調度可用的經費所以確實這個產生了相當大的問題所以我們只能在同一工作計畫向下能夠留用但是在不同工作計畫下就不能留用所以我們有一點空間但空間不是很大\n\n26\n00:09:16,820 --> 00:09:30,430\n特別是因為金額這個很多大家都需要都同樣有同樣狀況所以跟別人借錢也沒那麼容易所以是這樣的狀況那在這狀況之下每一個計劃執行的研究員就\n\n27\n00:09:31,972 --> 00:09:44,025\n會比較沒有企圖心做一些比較前瞻性或者是未來性的研究我想有一些研究員他們本來有一些計畫去執行的就會有點挫折了\n\n28\n00:09:46,408 --> 00:10:03,450\n你們被刪的這個經費相當高國外旅費就有兩千多萬那出國教育訓練費用有五百多萬所以其實這樣子合縱起來你們其實合計起來你們被刪的費用這麼高我覺得是會影響到所以我希望說你們院長院長這邊跟我們中院院長盡量想辦法來協助我們相關的人員\n\n29\n00:10:04,371 --> 00:10:30,478\n但是我真的還是要強調因為其實中研院我們帶領我們國科技前進而且我們前的那個之前我們之前在開會的時候也問過國科會主委他說台灣沒有諾貝爾得主這覺得很丟臉所以我希望說中研院這邊跟我們其他的科研單位還是要持續努力雖然現在遇到這樣子的狀況但希望說我們跟相關的部會包括教育部我們相關的高等教育的相關改革\n\n30\n00:10:31,098 --> 00:10:32,884\n可以持續努力我們盡快產生諾貝爾獎的得主好嗎好謝謝謝謝院長謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t10268\t就保委员谢主席 请院长好 有请廖院长\n14198\t28922\t政委員好院長早安這邊我想先請教院長本席發現有立委是運用我們中研院的報告來佐證乾式儲存廠還有很多空間根本不存在核廢料的後續處置的問題但是事實是這樣嗎請專家來回答\n37323\t51708\t中研院永續科學中心副執行秘書龍士郡中研院並沒有研究核能相關的人才所以基本上我們都是取用政府公開資料來做彙整這是一個彙整報告\n54309\t71620\t我想請教一下院長跟您確認以您的專業您回答我按照我們標準的安全的核廢料處理高階核廢料的後續處理是不是就是先放在幹室儲存場然後再移到中期的戰存場最後移到最終處置的這個設施是不是這樣\n74384\t76786\t理論上是先在場內的一個冷卻池之後的話才會移到場內的乾式儲存槽然後的話如果我們社會有共識能夠找到一個最終儲存場的話最終儲置場然後的話要移\n90339\t113320\t因為其實我們按照這個標準的安全的核廢的路徑圖來講我們從燃料池出來之後會到乾式儲存的儲放然後到中期的暫時儲放之後我們會放到最終處置就是最終的處置設施嘛是標準的處理程序是這樣子嗎是那麼我想請教這個核廢料可以一直放在乾式儲存場嗎\n115451\t122114\t理論上最好最後還是要有一個最終處置場但是很遺憾的是現在社會並沒有共識你們的這份報告上面有提到說核廢料可以一直只放在乾式儲存場就好不用後續處理嗎你上面有寫嗎這邊的話我們都沒有寫我們這邊的話都是取用台電以及這個核安會已經核定的報告所以這是你們的一個數據的統計這不是我們的統計這其實我們是引用別人的資料\n142864\t148048\t引用別人資料來做你們的報告嗎現在其實做其實核廢料的處理剛剛我們有討論過了就是這個錄定就是說最後是還有包含就是說中期的暫時儲存跟最終的這個處置嘛那其實連美國到現在都還沒有找到最終處置的場址\n161297\t178543\t那中期的暫存跟最終的處理的選址才是我們現在不能再繼續使用可能一個很大的關鍵那我也希望要藉這個機會讓你們中研院把話說清楚不要在這樣的情況之下混淆視天讓民眾誤解其實民眾現在誤以為說我們有很多的這個空間可以繼續來儲存這些核廢料而且不用再繼續處理我們可以繼續發展核能繼續產生核廢料是這樣嗎\n190848\t213874\t跟委員報告台電以及經過和安會所核定的台電報告中提到的是乾式儲存槽如果按照目前的規劃的話他確實可能還有一些儲存的空間那最大的儲存的年限的話大概是50年但是在那個之後還是需要最終儲置場那很遺憾的是和安會已經試圖要去\n215774\t241604\t這個尋找這個最終儲置場很多年了但是因為社會沒有共識很難所以很沒有辦法選擇到這個最終儲置場好 院長您要說明我們這個報告寫得很清楚就是蓋好後才可以提供儲存換句話說有一些蓋了大部分都還沒有蓋好是這樣子的意思重點是在於乾式儲存它不是最終儲值對 乾式儲存它只是一個暫時的\n242984\t254318\t我們後續要處理的部分才是我們現在最棘手的那你們也做這樣的澄清了就是我們的核廢料不能不是只是一直放在乾式儲存場就可以不是永久我們最終的這個最終處置的部分沒有解決\n258823\t277655\t所以現在這樣是不足以解決就是我們目前核廢掉的問題的好 謝謝那再來我想請教我們核三廠的二號機將在五月十七就除役那接下來二零五零的近年排放的進度及相關科技的這些研發的進度也是大家都一直非常關心的議題\n278576\t287804\t那中研院你們這個五大技能科技當中呢去碳燃氫已經在2023年在興達電廠啟動示範機組我想請教一下目前的進度怎麼樣我們現在在規模放大當中跟一些國內廠商合作希望把規模放大到能夠5MW的地步預計在2026年明年在興達電廠\n305859\t326148\t能夠測試我們的規模放大的效果明年會測試規模放大那你們什麼時候預計投入商轉投入商轉要看規模放大的成果怎麼樣就是現在初期的測試是成效是很好的但是還沒有規模放大那明年我們會規模放大再來測試\n327368\t348073\t對 只要測試成功 那我們當然接下來商轉的可能性就非常高假如測試沒有很成功 我們還可以要多努力 還可以往後再推幾年所以要明年規模放大測試之後才會知道說未來什麼時候投入商轉是的那有沒有預期說我們首次投入商轉可以帶來多少發電量這個有沒有一個規劃\n351233\t373960\t這個我想這個事情都是要逐步的這個屈膽然青的技術可貴的地方就是它不是一次全有或全無它可以逐步增加它的含氫量也是可以逐步增加所以它可以是這個技術發展的狀況可以是這個成本的效果可以簡單的需要可以逐步增加所以院長的意思是說現在目前是沒有辦法評估要等明年這個擴大規模的測試之後才能夠知道\n380583\t400781\t我們在進行科技中的地熱海洋能以及升值碳會目前好像比較沒有突破性的進展院長是不是要說明一下這三項計畫目前你們執行的情況在地熱方面我們在宜蘭園山已經跟中油合作專探國內首座的深層地熱的研究井到\n402562\t422934\t這個禮拜為止已經鑽到1500公尺已經鑽1500公尺了這是已經是相當大的突破那我們預計年底應該可以鑽到4500公尺今年年底可以到3000公尺所以這方面持續在進行當中\n424518\t448295\t那光電的部分我們剛才也提到說光電的部分我們最近有相當好的進展就是在高效光剛才您有展示過有這樣的成效這個方面是非常好的那在海洋能方面我們也開始測試在我們的海洋流發電機在高雄港裡面已經下水測試做浮力測試所以這個也持續都有進行當中\n449540\t471418\t那關於生殖炭灰這個部分生殖炭灰部分我們跟農委會的敘事所在合作在培養在篩選下一世代的狼尾草作為牧草它的耐旱耐冷它的肥料的效應等等這個方面也有相當好的進展\n472208\t488021\t所以其實都持續是有進度的但是每一個技術它對時程都不一樣譬如說生殖蛋會跟海洋人它可能時間會比較久一點院長你這邊你會後你把相關的這些資訊你一份資料給我辦公室\n488681\t494185\t我是希望說中研院這邊要積極的辦理關於我們近鄰的這些相關科技的繼續的研發而且我們也要隨時關注我們整個世界的趨勢來盡快達成我們2050近鄰探訪這個目標那我這邊快速的先問一下好了就是我們中研院的這個預算被刪減的問題呢其實我們都知道說學術交流非常的重要\n513759\t532605\t對於我們的這個國外旅費以及出國教育訓練費用招統15%這個部分呢想必也會影響到我們一些學術交流的活動讓我們一些優秀的學術研究人員沒有辦法順利的進行相關的學術交流及訓練我想知道的是我們中研院這邊因應的辦法是什麼\n534431\t555760\t我們在可能的範圍裡面我們儘量由這個院方來調度可用的經費所以確實這個產生了相當大的問題所以我們只能在同一工作計畫向下能夠留用但是在不同工作計畫下就不能留用所以我們有一點空間但空間不是很大\n556820\t570430\t特別是因為金額這個很多大家都需要都同樣有同樣狀況所以跟別人借錢也沒那麼容易所以是這樣的狀況那在這狀況之下每一個計劃執行的研究員就\n571972\t584025\t會比較沒有企圖心做一些比較前瞻性或者是未來性的研究我想有一些研究員他們本來有一些計畫去執行的就會有點挫折了\n586408\t603450\t你們被刪的這個經費相當高國外旅費就有兩千多萬那出國教育訓練費用有五百多萬所以其實這樣子合縱起來你們其實合計起來你們被刪的費用這麼高我覺得是會影響到所以我希望說你們院長院長這邊跟我們中院院長盡量想辦法來協助我們相關的人員\n604371\t630478\t但是我真的還是要強調因為其實中研院我們帶領我們國科技前進而且我們前的那個之前我們之前在開會的時候也問過國科會主委他說台灣沒有諾貝爾得主這覺得很丟臉所以我希望說中研院這邊跟我們其他的科研單位還是要持續努力雖然現在遇到這樣子的狀況但希望說我們跟相關的部會包括教育部我們相關的高等教育的相關改革\n631098\t632884\t可以持續努力我們盡快產生諾貝爾獎的得主好嗎好謝謝謝謝院長謝謝\n","txt":"就保委员谢主席 请院长好 有请廖院长\n政委員好院長早安這邊我想先請教院長本席發現有立委是運用我們中研院的報告來佐證乾式儲存廠還有很多空間根本不存在核廢料的後續處置的問題但是事實是這樣嗎請專家來回答\n中研院永續科學中心副執行秘書龍士郡中研院並沒有研究核能相關的人才所以基本上我們都是取用政府公開資料來做彙整這是一個彙整報告\n我想請教一下院長跟您確認以您的專業您回答我按照我們標準的安全的核廢料處理高階核廢料的後續處理是不是就是先放在幹室儲存場然後再移到中期的戰存場最後移到最終處置的這個設施是不是這樣\n理論上是先在場內的一個冷卻池之後的話才會移到場內的乾式儲存槽然後的話如果我們社會有共識能夠找到一個最終儲存場的話最終儲置場然後的話要移\n因為其實我們按照這個標準的安全的核廢的路徑圖來講我們從燃料池出來之後會到乾式儲存的儲放然後到中期的暫時儲放之後我們會放到最終處置就是最終的處置設施嘛是標準的處理程序是這樣子嗎是那麼我想請教這個核廢料可以一直放在乾式儲存場嗎\n理論上最好最後還是要有一個最終處置場但是很遺憾的是現在社會並沒有共識你們的這份報告上面有提到說核廢料可以一直只放在乾式儲存場就好不用後續處理嗎你上面有寫嗎這邊的話我們都沒有寫我們這邊的話都是取用台電以及這個核安會已經核定的報告所以這是你們的一個數據的統計這不是我們的統計這其實我們是引用別人的資料\n引用別人資料來做你們的報告嗎現在其實做其實核廢料的處理剛剛我們有討論過了就是這個錄定就是說最後是還有包含就是說中期的暫時儲存跟最終的這個處置嘛那其實連美國到現在都還沒有找到最終處置的場址\n那中期的暫存跟最終的處理的選址才是我們現在不能再繼續使用可能一個很大的關鍵那我也希望要藉這個機會讓你們中研院把話說清楚不要在這樣的情況之下混淆視天讓民眾誤解其實民眾現在誤以為說我們有很多的這個空間可以繼續來儲存這些核廢料而且不用再繼續處理我們可以繼續發展核能繼續產生核廢料是這樣嗎\n跟委員報告台電以及經過和安會所核定的台電報告中提到的是乾式儲存槽如果按照目前的規劃的話他確實可能還有一些儲存的空間那最大的儲存的年限的話大概是50年但是在那個之後還是需要最終儲置場那很遺憾的是和安會已經試圖要去\n這個尋找這個最終儲置場很多年了但是因為社會沒有共識很難所以很沒有辦法選擇到這個最終儲置場好 院長您要說明我們這個報告寫得很清楚就是蓋好後才可以提供儲存換句話說有一些蓋了大部分都還沒有蓋好是這樣子的意思重點是在於乾式儲存它不是最終儲值對 乾式儲存它只是一個暫時的\n我們後續要處理的部分才是我們現在最棘手的那你們也做這樣的澄清了就是我們的核廢料不能不是只是一直放在乾式儲存場就可以不是永久我們最終的這個最終處置的部分沒有解決\n所以現在這樣是不足以解決就是我們目前核廢掉的問題的好 謝謝那再來我想請教我們核三廠的二號機將在五月十七就除役那接下來二零五零的近年排放的進度及相關科技的這些研發的進度也是大家都一直非常關心的議題\n那中研院你們這個五大技能科技當中呢去碳燃氫已經在2023年在興達電廠啟動示範機組我想請教一下目前的進度怎麼樣我們現在在規模放大當中跟一些國內廠商合作希望把規模放大到能夠5MW的地步預計在2026年明年在興達電廠\n能夠測試我們的規模放大的效果明年會測試規模放大那你們什麼時候預計投入商轉投入商轉要看規模放大的成果怎麼樣就是現在初期的測試是成效是很好的但是還沒有規模放大那明年我們會規模放大再來測試\n對 只要測試成功 那我們當然接下來商轉的可能性就非常高假如測試沒有很成功 我們還可以要多努力 還可以往後再推幾年所以要明年規模放大測試之後才會知道說未來什麼時候投入商轉是的那有沒有預期說我們首次投入商轉可以帶來多少發電量這個有沒有一個規劃\n這個我想這個事情都是要逐步的這個屈膽然青的技術可貴的地方就是它不是一次全有或全無它可以逐步增加它的含氫量也是可以逐步增加所以它可以是這個技術發展的狀況可以是這個成本的效果可以簡單的需要可以逐步增加所以院長的意思是說現在目前是沒有辦法評估要等明年這個擴大規模的測試之後才能夠知道\n我們在進行科技中的地熱海洋能以及升值碳會目前好像比較沒有突破性的進展院長是不是要說明一下這三項計畫目前你們執行的情況在地熱方面我們在宜蘭園山已經跟中油合作專探國內首座的深層地熱的研究井到\n這個禮拜為止已經鑽到1500公尺已經鑽1500公尺了這是已經是相當大的突破那我們預計年底應該可以鑽到4500公尺今年年底可以到3000公尺所以這方面持續在進行當中\n那光電的部分我們剛才也提到說光電的部分我們最近有相當好的進展就是在高效光剛才您有展示過有這樣的成效這個方面是非常好的那在海洋能方面我們也開始測試在我們的海洋流發電機在高雄港裡面已經下水測試做浮力測試所以這個也持續都有進行當中\n那關於生殖炭灰這個部分生殖炭灰部分我們跟農委會的敘事所在合作在培養在篩選下一世代的狼尾草作為牧草它的耐旱耐冷它的肥料的效應等等這個方面也有相當好的進展\n所以其實都持續是有進度的但是每一個技術它對時程都不一樣譬如說生殖蛋會跟海洋人它可能時間會比較久一點院長你這邊你會後你把相關的這些資訊你一份資料給我辦公室\n我是希望說中研院這邊要積極的辦理關於我們近鄰的這些相關科技的繼續的研發而且我們也要隨時關注我們整個世界的趨勢來盡快達成我們2050近鄰探訪這個目標那我這邊快速的先問一下好了就是我們中研院的這個預算被刪減的問題呢其實我們都知道說學術交流非常的重要\n對於我們的這個國外旅費以及出國教育訓練費用招統15%這個部分呢想必也會影響到我們一些學術交流的活動讓我們一些優秀的學術研究人員沒有辦法順利的進行相關的學術交流及訓練我想知道的是我們中研院這邊因應的辦法是什麼\n我們在可能的範圍裡面我們儘量由這個院方來調度可用的經費所以確實這個產生了相當大的問題所以我們只能在同一工作計畫向下能夠留用但是在不同工作計畫下就不能留用所以我們有一點空間但空間不是很大\n特別是因為金額這個很多大家都需要都同樣有同樣狀況所以跟別人借錢也沒那麼容易所以是這樣的狀況那在這狀況之下每一個計劃執行的研究員就\n會比較沒有企圖心做一些比較前瞻性或者是未來性的研究我想有一些研究員他們本來有一些計畫去執行的就會有點挫折了\n你們被刪的這個經費相當高國外旅費就有兩千多萬那出國教育訓練費用有五百多萬所以其實這樣子合縱起來你們其實合計起來你們被刪的費用這麼高我覺得是會影響到所以我希望說你們院長院長這邊跟我們中院院長盡量想辦法來協助我們相關的人員\n但是我真的還是要強調因為其實中研院我們帶領我們國科技前進而且我們前的那個之前我們之前在開會的時候也問過國科會主委他說台灣沒有諾貝爾得主這覺得很丟臉所以我希望說中研院這邊跟我們其他的科研單位還是要持續努力雖然現在遇到這樣子的狀況但希望說我們跟相關的部會包括教育部我們相關的高等教育的相關改革\n可以持續努力我們盡快產生諾貝爾獎的得主好嗎好謝謝謝謝院長謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:10.268\n就保委员谢主席请院长好有请廖院长\n\n00:14.198 --> 00:28.922\n政委員好院長早安這邊我想先請教院長本席發現有立委是運用我們中研院的報告來佐證乾式儲存廠還有很多空間根本不存在核廢料的後續處置的問題但是事實是這樣嗎請專家來回答\n\n00:37.323 --> 00:51.708\n中研院永續科學中心副執行秘書龍士郡中研院並沒有研究核能相關的人才所以基本上我們都是取用政府公開資料來做彙整這是一個彙整報告\n\n00:54.309 --> 01:11.620\n我想請教一下院長跟您確認以您的專業您回答我按照我們標準的安全的核廢料處理高階核廢料的後續處理是不是就是先放在幹室儲存場然後再移到中期的戰存場最後移到最終處置的這個設施是不是這樣\n\n01:14.384 --> 01:16.786\n理論上是先在場內的一個冷卻池之後的話才會移到場內的乾式儲存槽然後的話如果我們社會有共識能夠找到一個最終儲存場的話最終儲置場然後的話要移\n\n01:30.339 --> 01:53.320\n因為其實我們按照這個標準的安全的核廢的路徑圖來講我們從燃料池出來之後會到乾式儲存的儲放然後到中期的暫時儲放之後我們會放到最終處置就是最終的處置設施嘛是標準的處理程序是這樣子嗎是那麼我想請教這個核廢料可以一直放在乾式儲存場嗎\n\n01:55.451 --> 02:02.114\n理論上最好最後還是要有一個最終處置場但是很遺憾的是現在社會並沒有共識你們的這份報告上面有提到說核廢料可以一直只放在乾式儲存場就好不用後續處理嗎你上面有寫嗎這邊的話我們都沒有寫我們這邊的話都是取用台電以及這個核安會已經核定的報告所以這是你們的一個數據的統計這不是我們的統計這其實我們是引用別人的資料\n\n02:22.864 --> 02:28.048\n引用別人資料來做你們的報告嗎現在其實做其實核廢料的處理剛剛我們有討論過了就是這個錄定就是說最後是還有包含就是說中期的暫時儲存跟最終的這個處置嘛那其實連美國到現在都還沒有找到最終處置的場址\n\n02:41.297 --> 02:58.543\n那中期的暫存跟最終的處理的選址才是我們現在不能再繼續使用可能一個很大的關鍵那我也希望要藉這個機會讓你們中研院把話說清楚不要在這樣的情況之下混淆視天讓民眾誤解其實民眾現在誤以為說我們有很多的這個空間可以繼續來儲存這些核廢料而且不用再繼續處理我們可以繼續發展核能繼續產生核廢料是這樣嗎\n\n03:10.848 --> 03:33.874\n跟委員報告台電以及經過和安會所核定的台電報告中提到的是乾式儲存槽如果按照目前的規劃的話他確實可能還有一些儲存的空間那最大的儲存的年限的話大概是50年但是在那個之後還是需要最終儲置場那很遺憾的是和安會已經試圖要去\n\n03:35.774 --> 04:01.604\n這個尋找這個最終儲置場很多年了但是因為社會沒有共識很難所以很沒有辦法選擇到這個最終儲置場好院長您要說明我們這個報告寫得很清楚就是蓋好後才可以提供儲存換句話說有一些蓋了大部分都還沒有蓋好是這樣子的意思重點是在於乾式儲存它不是最終儲值對乾式儲存它只是一個暫時的\n\n04:02.984 --> 04:14.318\n我們後續要處理的部分才是我們現在最棘手的那你們也做這樣的澄清了就是我們的核廢料不能不是只是一直放在乾式儲存場就可以不是永久我們最終的這個最終處置的部分沒有解決\n\n04:18.823 --> 04:37.655\n所以現在這樣是不足以解決就是我們目前核廢掉的問題的好謝謝那再來我想請教我們核三廠的二號機將在五月十七就除役那接下來二零五零的近年排放的進度及相關科技的這些研發的進度也是大家都一直非常關心的議題\n\n04:38.576 --> 04:47.804\n那中研院你們這個五大技能科技當中呢去碳燃氫已經在2023年在興達電廠啟動示範機組我想請教一下目前的進度怎麼樣我們現在在規模放大當中跟一些國內廠商合作希望把規模放大到能夠5MW的地步預計在2026年明年在興達電廠\n\n05:05.859 --> 05:26.148\n能夠測試我們的規模放大的效果明年會測試規模放大那你們什麼時候預計投入商轉投入商轉要看規模放大的成果怎麼樣就是現在初期的測試是成效是很好的但是還沒有規模放大那明年我們會規模放大再來測試\n\n05:27.368 --> 05:48.073\n對只要測試成功那我們當然接下來商轉的可能性就非常高假如測試沒有很成功我們還可以要多努力還可以往後再推幾年所以要明年規模放大測試之後才會知道說未來什麼時候投入商轉是的那有沒有預期說我們首次投入商轉可以帶來多少發電量這個有沒有一個規劃\n\n05:51.233 --> 06:13.960\n這個我想這個事情都是要逐步的這個屈膽然青的技術可貴的地方就是它不是一次全有或全無它可以逐步增加它的含氫量也是可以逐步增加所以它可以是這個技術發展的狀況可以是這個成本的效果可以簡單的需要可以逐步增加所以院長的意思是說現在目前是沒有辦法評估要等明年這個擴大規模的測試之後才能夠知道\n\n06:20.583 --> 06:40.781\n我們在進行科技中的地熱海洋能以及升值碳會目前好像比較沒有突破性的進展院長是不是要說明一下這三項計畫目前你們執行的情況在地熱方面我們在宜蘭園山已經跟中油合作專探國內首座的深層地熱的研究井到\n\n06:42.562 --> 07:02.934\n這個禮拜為止已經鑽到1500公尺已經鑽1500公尺了這是已經是相當大的突破那我們預計年底應該可以鑽到4500公尺今年年底可以到3000公尺所以這方面持續在進行當中\n\n07:04.518 --> 07:28.295\n那光電的部分我們剛才也提到說光電的部分我們最近有相當好的進展就是在高效光剛才您有展示過有這樣的成效這個方面是非常好的那在海洋能方面我們也開始測試在我們的海洋流發電機在高雄港裡面已經下水測試做浮力測試所以這個也持續都有進行當中\n\n07:29.540 --> 07:51.418\n那關於生殖炭灰這個部分生殖炭灰部分我們跟農委會的敘事所在合作在培養在篩選下一世代的狼尾草作為牧草它的耐旱耐冷它的肥料的效應等等這個方面也有相當好的進展\n\n07:52.208 --> 08:08.021\n所以其實都持續是有進度的但是每一個技術它對時程都不一樣譬如說生殖蛋會跟海洋人它可能時間會比較久一點院長你這邊你會後你把相關的這些資訊你一份資料給我辦公室\n\n08:08.681 --> 08:14.185\n我是希望說中研院這邊要積極的辦理關於我們近鄰的這些相關科技的繼續的研發而且我們也要隨時關注我們整個世界的趨勢來盡快達成我們2050近鄰探訪這個目標那我這邊快速的先問一下好了就是我們中研院的這個預算被刪減的問題呢其實我們都知道說學術交流非常的重要\n\n08:33.759 --> 08:52.605\n對於我們的這個國外旅費以及出國教育訓練費用招統15%這個部分呢想必也會影響到我們一些學術交流的活動讓我們一些優秀的學術研究人員沒有辦法順利的進行相關的學術交流及訓練我想知道的是我們中研院這邊因應的辦法是什麼\n\n08:54.431 --> 09:15.760\n我們在可能的範圍裡面我們儘量由這個院方來調度可用的經費所以確實這個產生了相當大的問題所以我們只能在同一工作計畫向下能夠留用但是在不同工作計畫下就不能留用所以我們有一點空間但空間不是很大\n\n09:16.820 --> 09:30.430\n特別是因為金額這個很多大家都需要都同樣有同樣狀況所以跟別人借錢也沒那麼容易所以是這樣的狀況那在這狀況之下每一個計劃執行的研究員就\n\n09:31.972 --> 09:44.025\n會比較沒有企圖心做一些比較前瞻性或者是未來性的研究我想有一些研究員他們本來有一些計畫去執行的就會有點挫折了\n\n09:46.408 --> 10:03.450\n你們被刪的這個經費相當高國外旅費就有兩千多萬那出國教育訓練費用有五百多萬所以其實這樣子合縱起來你們其實合計起來你們被刪的費用這麼高我覺得是會影響到所以我希望說你們院長院長這邊跟我們中院院長盡量想辦法來協助我們相關的人員\n\n10:04.371 --> 10:30.478\n但是我真的還是要強調因為其實中研院我們帶領我們國科技前進而且我們前的那個之前我們之前在開會的時候也問過國科會主委他說台灣沒有諾貝爾得主這覺得很丟臉所以我希望說中研院這邊跟我們其他的科研單位還是要持續努力雖然現在遇到這樣子的狀況但希望說我們跟相關的部會包括教育部我們相關的高等教育的相關改革\n\n10:31.098 --> 10:32.884\n可以持續努力我們盡快產生諾貝爾獎的得主好嗎好謝謝謝謝院長謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":10.268,"text":"就保委员谢主席 请院长好 有请廖院长"},{"start":14.198,"end":28.922,"text":"政委員好院長早安這邊我想先請教院長本席發現有立委是運用我們中研院的報告來佐證乾式儲存廠還有很多空間根本不存在核廢料的後續處置的問題但是事實是這樣嗎請專家來回答"},{"start":37.323,"end":51.708,"text":"中研院永續科學中心副執行秘書龍士郡中研院並沒有研究核能相關的人才所以基本上我們都是取用政府公開資料來做彙整這是一個彙整報告"},{"start":54.309,"end":71.62,"text":"我想請教一下院長跟您確認以您的專業您回答我按照我們標準的安全的核廢料處理高階核廢料的後續處理是不是就是先放在幹室儲存場然後再移到中期的戰存場最後移到最終處置的這個設施是不是這樣"},{"start":74.384,"end":76.786,"text":"理論上是先在場內的一個冷卻池之後的話才會移到場內的乾式儲存槽然後的話如果我們社會有共識能夠找到一個最終儲存場的話最終儲置場然後的話要移"},{"start":90.339,"end":113.32,"text":"因為其實我們按照這個標準的安全的核廢的路徑圖來講我們從燃料池出來之後會到乾式儲存的儲放然後到中期的暫時儲放之後我們會放到最終處置就是最終的處置設施嘛是標準的處理程序是這樣子嗎是那麼我想請教這個核廢料可以一直放在乾式儲存場嗎"},{"start":115.451,"end":122.114,"text":"理論上最好最後還是要有一個最終處置場但是很遺憾的是現在社會並沒有共識你們的這份報告上面有提到說核廢料可以一直只放在乾式儲存場就好不用後續處理嗎你上面有寫嗎這邊的話我們都沒有寫我們這邊的話都是取用台電以及這個核安會已經核定的報告所以這是你們的一個數據的統計這不是我們的統計這其實我們是引用別人的資料"},{"start":142.864,"end":148.048,"text":"引用別人資料來做你們的報告嗎現在其實做其實核廢料的處理剛剛我們有討論過了就是這個錄定就是說最後是還有包含就是說中期的暫時儲存跟最終的這個處置嘛那其實連美國到現在都還沒有找到最終處置的場址"},{"start":161.297,"end":178.543,"text":"那中期的暫存跟最終的處理的選址才是我們現在不能再繼續使用可能一個很大的關鍵那我也希望要藉這個機會讓你們中研院把話說清楚不要在這樣的情況之下混淆視天讓民眾誤解其實民眾現在誤以為說我們有很多的這個空間可以繼續來儲存這些核廢料而且不用再繼續處理我們可以繼續發展核能繼續產生核廢料是這樣嗎"},{"start":190.848,"end":213.874,"text":"跟委員報告台電以及經過和安會所核定的台電報告中提到的是乾式儲存槽如果按照目前的規劃的話他確實可能還有一些儲存的空間那最大的儲存的年限的話大概是50年但是在那個之後還是需要最終儲置場那很遺憾的是和安會已經試圖要去"},{"start":215.774,"end":241.604,"text":"這個尋找這個最終儲置場很多年了但是因為社會沒有共識很難所以很沒有辦法選擇到這個最終儲置場好 院長您要說明我們這個報告寫得很清楚就是蓋好後才可以提供儲存換句話說有一些蓋了大部分都還沒有蓋好是這樣子的意思重點是在於乾式儲存它不是最終儲值對 乾式儲存它只是一個暫時的"},{"start":242.984,"end":254.318,"text":"我們後續要處理的部分才是我們現在最棘手的那你們也做這樣的澄清了就是我們的核廢料不能不是只是一直放在乾式儲存場就可以不是永久我們最終的這個最終處置的部分沒有解決"},{"start":258.823,"end":277.655,"text":"所以現在這樣是不足以解決就是我們目前核廢掉的問題的好 謝謝那再來我想請教我們核三廠的二號機將在五月十七就除役那接下來二零五零的近年排放的進度及相關科技的這些研發的進度也是大家都一直非常關心的議題"},{"start":278.576,"end":287.804,"text":"那中研院你們這個五大技能科技當中呢去碳燃氫已經在2023年在興達電廠啟動示範機組我想請教一下目前的進度怎麼樣我們現在在規模放大當中跟一些國內廠商合作希望把規模放大到能夠5MW的地步預計在2026年明年在興達電廠"},{"start":305.859,"end":326.148,"text":"能夠測試我們的規模放大的效果明年會測試規模放大那你們什麼時候預計投入商轉投入商轉要看規模放大的成果怎麼樣就是現在初期的測試是成效是很好的但是還沒有規模放大那明年我們會規模放大再來測試"},{"start":327.368,"end":348.073,"text":"對 只要測試成功 那我們當然接下來商轉的可能性就非常高假如測試沒有很成功 我們還可以要多努力 還可以往後再推幾年所以要明年規模放大測試之後才會知道說未來什麼時候投入商轉是的那有沒有預期說我們首次投入商轉可以帶來多少發電量這個有沒有一個規劃"},{"start":351.233,"end":373.96,"text":"這個我想這個事情都是要逐步的這個屈膽然青的技術可貴的地方就是它不是一次全有或全無它可以逐步增加它的含氫量也是可以逐步增加所以它可以是這個技術發展的狀況可以是這個成本的效果可以簡單的需要可以逐步增加所以院長的意思是說現在目前是沒有辦法評估要等明年這個擴大規模的測試之後才能夠知道"},{"start":380.583,"end":400.781,"text":"我們在進行科技中的地熱海洋能以及升值碳會目前好像比較沒有突破性的進展院長是不是要說明一下這三項計畫目前你們執行的情況在地熱方面我們在宜蘭園山已經跟中油合作專探國內首座的深層地熱的研究井到"},{"start":402.562,"end":422.934,"text":"這個禮拜為止已經鑽到1500公尺已經鑽1500公尺了這是已經是相當大的突破那我們預計年底應該可以鑽到4500公尺今年年底可以到3000公尺所以這方面持續在進行當中"},{"start":424.518,"end":448.295,"text":"那光電的部分我們剛才也提到說光電的部分我們最近有相當好的進展就是在高效光剛才您有展示過有這樣的成效這個方面是非常好的那在海洋能方面我們也開始測試在我們的海洋流發電機在高雄港裡面已經下水測試做浮力測試所以這個也持續都有進行當中"},{"start":449.54,"end":471.418,"text":"那關於生殖炭灰這個部分生殖炭灰部分我們跟農委會的敘事所在合作在培養在篩選下一世代的狼尾草作為牧草它的耐旱耐冷它的肥料的效應等等這個方面也有相當好的進展"},{"start":472.208,"end":488.021,"text":"所以其實都持續是有進度的但是每一個技術它對時程都不一樣譬如說生殖蛋會跟海洋人它可能時間會比較久一點院長你這邊你會後你把相關的這些資訊你一份資料給我辦公室"},{"start":488.681,"end":494.185,"text":"我是希望說中研院這邊要積極的辦理關於我們近鄰的這些相關科技的繼續的研發而且我們也要隨時關注我們整個世界的趨勢來盡快達成我們2050近鄰探訪這個目標那我這邊快速的先問一下好了就是我們中研院的這個預算被刪減的問題呢其實我們都知道說學術交流非常的重要"},{"start":513.759,"end":532.605,"text":"對於我們的這個國外旅費以及出國教育訓練費用招統15%這個部分呢想必也會影響到我們一些學術交流的活動讓我們一些優秀的學術研究人員沒有辦法順利的進行相關的學術交流及訓練我想知道的是我們中研院這邊因應的辦法是什麼"},{"start":534.431,"end":555.76,"text":"我們在可能的範圍裡面我們儘量由這個院方來調度可用的經費所以確實這個產生了相當大的問題所以我們只能在同一工作計畫向下能夠留用但是在不同工作計畫下就不能留用所以我們有一點空間但空間不是很大"},{"start":556.82,"end":570.43,"text":"特別是因為金額這個很多大家都需要都同樣有同樣狀況所以跟別人借錢也沒那麼容易所以是這樣的狀況那在這狀況之下每一個計劃執行的研究員就"},{"start":571.972,"end":584.025,"text":"會比較沒有企圖心做一些比較前瞻性或者是未來性的研究我想有一些研究員他們本來有一些計畫去執行的就會有點挫折了"},{"start":586.408,"end":603.45,"text":"你們被刪的這個經費相當高國外旅費就有兩千多萬那出國教育訓練費用有五百多萬所以其實這樣子合縱起來你們其實合計起來你們被刪的費用這麼高我覺得是會影響到所以我希望說你們院長院長這邊跟我們中院院長盡量想辦法來協助我們相關的人員"},{"start":604.371,"end":630.478,"text":"但是我真的還是要強調因為其實中研院我們帶領我們國科技前進而且我們前的那個之前我們之前在開會的時候也問過國科會主委他說台灣沒有諾貝爾得主這覺得很丟臉所以我希望說中研院這邊跟我們其他的科研單位還是要持續努力雖然現在遇到這樣子的狀況但希望說我們跟相關的部會包括教育部我們相關的高等教育的相關改革"},{"start":631.098,"end":632.884,"text":"可以持續努力我們盡快產生諾貝爾獎的得主好嗎好謝謝謝謝院長謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":366,"blocks":[["陳委員秀寳：（10時7分）謝謝主席，請院長。"],["主席：有請廖院長。"],["廖院長俊智：陳委員好。"],["陳委員秀寳：院長早安。我想先請教院長，本席發現有立委運用中研院的報告來佐證乾式貯存場還有很多空間，根本不存在核廢料後續處置的問題，但是事實是這樣嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：我們請專家來回答。"],["龍副主任世俊：你好，我是中研院永續科學中心的副執行秘書龍世俊，剛剛院長已經報告過，因為中研院並沒有研究核能相關的人才，基本上我們都是取用政府公開資料來彙整，所以這是一個彙整報告。"],["陳委員秀寳：我想請教院長，以您的專業回答我，按照標準安全的核廢料處理，高階核廢料的後續處理是不是先放在乾式貯存場，然後再移到中期的暫存場，最後移到最終處置的設施，是不是這樣？"],["龍副主任世俊：理論上是先在場內的冷卻池，之後移到場內的乾式貯存槽，如果社會有共識能夠找到最終處置場的話，最終要移存到最終處置場。"],["陳委員秀寳：因為按照標準、安全的核廢料路徑圖來講，從燃料池出來之後會到乾式貯存場貯放，然後到中期暫時貯存，最終會放到最終處置設施，標準的處理程序是這樣子嗎？"],["龍副主任世俊：是。"],["陳委員秀寳：我想請教核廢料可以一直放在乾式貯存場嗎？"],["龍副主任世俊：理論上最後最好還是要有一個最終處置場，但是很遺憾的是現在社會沒有共識。"],["陳委員秀寳：你們的這份報告上面有提到，核廢料可以一直只放在乾式貯存場就好，不用後續處理嗎？"],["龍副主任世俊：我們都沒有寫，我們這邊都是取用台電及核安會已經核定的報告……"],["陳委員秀寳：所以這是你們數據的統計，但是……"],["龍副主任世俊：這不是我們的統計，我們是引用別人的資料。"],["陳委員秀寳：引用別人的資料做你們的報告嗎？核廢料的處理剛剛有討論過核廢料的路徑，包含中期的暫時貯存跟最終的處置，連美國到現在都還沒有找到最終處置的場址，中期的暫存跟最終處置場的選址，才是現在不能再繼續使用核能很大的關鍵，我希望藉這個機會讓中研院把話說清楚，不要在這樣情況之下混淆視聽，讓民眾誤解，民眾現在誤以為我們有很多的空間可以繼續貯存這些核廢料，而且不用再繼續處理，我們可以繼續發展核能，繼續產生核廢料，是這樣嗎？"],["龍副主任世俊：跟委員報告，台電以及經過核安會所核定的台電報告中，提到的是乾式貯存槽如果按照目前的規劃，確實可能還有一些貯存的空間，最大的儲存年限大概是五十年，但是在那個之後，還是需要最終處置場，很遺憾的是核安會已經試圖要尋找最終處置場很多年了，但是因為社會沒有共識……"],["陳委員秀寳：要找到很難。"],["龍副主任世俊：所以沒有辦法找到最終處置場。"],["陳委員秀寳：好，院長，您要說明？"],["廖院長俊智：我們這個報告寫得很清楚，蓋好後才可以提供貯存，換句話說，大部分都還沒有蓋好，是這樣子的意思。"],["陳委員秀寳：重點是乾式貯存不是最終處置……"],["廖院長俊智：對，乾式貯存……"],["陳委員秀寳：它只是一個暫時的，我們後續要處理的部分才是現在最棘手的。"],["廖院長俊智：對。"],["陳委員秀寳：好，你們也澄清了，核廢料不是只是一直放在乾式貯存場就可以……"],["廖院長俊智：不是永久。"],["陳委員秀寳：我們最終處置的部分沒有解決，所以現在這樣是不足以解決目前核廢料的問題。","再來，我想請教，核三廠的二號機將在5月17日除役，接下來2050的淨零排放的進度及相關科技研發的進度，也是大家都非常關心的議題，中研院的五大淨零科技當中，去碳燃氫2023年已經在興達電廠啟動示範機組，我想請教目前的進度怎麼樣？"],["廖院長俊智：現在在規模放大當中，我們跟一些國內廠商合作，希望把規模放大到5MW的地步，預計在2026年興達電廠能夠測試規模放大的效果。"],["陳委員秀寳：所以明年會測試規模放大，那你們什麼時候預計投入商轉？"],["廖院長俊智：投入商轉要看規模放大的成果怎麼樣。"],["陳委員秀寳：現在初期的測試是成效是很好的。"],["廖院長俊智：但是還沒有規模放大，現在還是……"],["陳委員秀寳：明年我們會規模放大再來測試，之後……"],["廖院長俊智：對，假設測試成功，我們接下來商轉的可能性就非常高；假如測試沒有很成功，我們還要多努力，可能往後再推幾年。"],["陳委員秀寳：所以明年規模放大測試之後才會知道未來什麼時候投入商轉。"],["廖院長俊智：是的。"],["陳委員秀寳：有沒有預期首次投入商轉，可以帶來多少發電量，這個有沒有規劃？"],["廖院長俊智：我想這個事情都是要逐步進行的，去碳燃氫的技術可貴的地方就是它不是一次全有或全無，可以視技術發展的狀況、成本的效果、減碳的需要來逐步增加含氫量。"],["陳委員秀寳：院長的意思是現在是沒有辦法評估，要等明年擴大規模的測試之後才能夠知道？"],["廖院長俊智：是的。"],["陳委員秀寳：我想請教院長，在淨零科技中的地熱能、海洋能，以及生質碳匯，目前好像比較沒有突破性的進展……"],["廖院長俊智：有。"],["陳委員秀寳：院長要請你說明這三項計畫目前你們執行的情況。"],["廖院長俊智：在地熱方面，宜蘭員山已經跟中油合作鑽探國內首座的深層地熱的研究井，到這個禮拜為止，已經鑽到1,500公尺，這是相當大的突破，我們預計年底應該可以鑽到3,000公尺，所以這方面持續進行當中。","光電部分，剛才提到我們最近有相當好的進展，就是在高效光……"],["陳委員秀寳：剛才您有展示過這樣的成效。"],["廖院長俊智：對，這個方面是非常好的。","在海洋能方面，我們也開始測試，海洋流發電機在高雄廠裡面已經下水做浮力測試，持續都有進行當中。"],["陳委員秀寳：關於生質碳匯的部分？"],["廖院長俊智：生質碳匯部分，我們跟農委會的畜試所合作培養、篩選下一世代的狼尾草作為牧草，它的耐旱、耐冷，它的肥料的效應等等，這個方面也有相當好的進展。"],["陳委員秀寳：所以持續是有進度的？"],["廖院長俊智：對，但是每一個技術的時程都不一樣，譬如生質碳匯跟海洋能的時間，可能會比較久一點。"],["陳委員秀寳：院長會後把相關的這些資訊，提供一份資料給我們辦公室。"],["廖院長俊智：好。"],["陳委員秀寳：我是希望中研院要積極地辦理關於淨零的相關科技技術的研發，而且要隨時關注整個世界的趨勢，儘快達成我們2050淨零碳排的目標。"],["廖院長俊智：好，謝謝。"],["陳委員秀寳：我快速地先問一下，你們中研院預算被刪減的問題，我們都知道學術交流非常的重要，對於你們的國外旅費以及出國教育訓練費費用遭統刪15%的部分，想必也會影響到你們一些學術交流的活動，讓一些優秀的學術研究人員沒有辦法順利地進行相關的學術交流及訓練。我想知道你們中研院因應的辦法是什麼？"],["廖院長俊智：在可能的範圍裡，儘量由我們院方調度可用的經費，但是……"],["陳委員秀寳：這不能流用啊！"],["廖院長俊智：這確實產生相當大的問題，我們只能在同一工作計畫項下能夠流用，但是在不同工作計畫下就不能流用，所以我們是有一點空間，但空間不是很大，特別是因為這經費大家都需要，都有遇到同樣的狀況，所以要跟別人借錢也沒那麼容易，在這種狀況下，每一個計畫執行的研究員會比較沒有企圖心做一些比較具前瞻性或者未來性的研究。"],["陳委員秀寳：我想有一些研究員執行一些計畫上會有點挫折，因為你們被刪的經費相當高，國外旅費就有兩千多萬，出國教育訓練費用有五百多萬，合計起來你們被刪的費用這麼高，我覺得是會影響到，所以我希望院長跟你們中研院儘量想辦法協助你們相關的人員。"],["廖院長俊智：是，我們有在做。"],["陳委員秀寳：我還是要強調，中研院帶領我國科技前進，尤其我們之前在開會的時候，也詢問過國科會主委，他提到臺灣沒有諾貝爾得主，覺得很丟臉，所以我希望中研院跟其他的科研單位還是要持續努力，雖然現在遇到這樣的狀況，但希望你們跟相關的部會，包括教育部，相關高等教育的改革可以持續努力，可以儘快產出諾貝爾得獎的得主好嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：好，謝謝。"],["陳委員秀寳：謝謝院長。"],["主席：謝謝陳秀寳委員，院長請回。","接下來請伍麗華委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":50,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-6","speakers":["林宜瑾","林沛祥","柯志恩","劉書彬","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","郭昱晴","葉元之","張雅琳","吳沛憶","萬美玲","范雲","翁曉玲","羅廷瑋"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-04-10"],"gazette_id":"1143702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143702_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請中央研究院院長廖俊智列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143702_00001"}}}