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\"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"瑤\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 886.236, \"end\": 886.437, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 886.437, \"end\": 886.457, \"score\": 0.072}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,773 --> 00:00:21,419\n好謝謝主席我請司法院副秘書長法務部部長副部長他10點去開會所以次長那就是次長還有警政署副局長副組長\n\n2\n00:00:24,107 --> 00:00:41,775\n大家早安其實今天我們談的是這個鍾文智他的一個這個潛逃案那這個案子引起社會極大的震撼那大家認為說在台灣犯重罪怎麼可以這麼輕易的就逃跑\n\n3\n00:00:42,535 --> 00:00:56,515\n但是問題是只有中文制這一件案子嗎我們過去這一年多來可以看到在各個重大特別市屬於經濟性犯罪的\n\n4\n00:00:57,438 --> 00:01:18,078\n要逃跑很容易非常容易尤其是經濟性的犯罪而且我會發現說你洗錢洗得越多你經濟犯罪金額越大然後逃跑越容易你看看一下包含我們過去的台鹽董事長陳啟玉他也一樣潛逃\n\n5\n00:01:22,557 --> 00:01:51,489\n而且他在國內耶應該看起來是在國內而到目前為止也不曉得從來都沒有交代他逃國大概一個多月他到底在哪裡他曾經潛逃在哪裡哪些人幫助他潛逃到現在沒有任何的跟我們社會沒有任何交代喔他不是跑到泰國他不是跑到大陸他不是跑到其他東南亞國家喔他在台灣喔有交代嗎沒有交代好再來\n\n6\n00:01:52,749 --> 00:02:08,505\n過去的88會館郭哲敏他後來是從泰國引渡回來也是一樣啊1億元交保看起來好像1億元很高對不對對不起對這些經濟犯罪的人根本不算什麼他照樣的潛逃出境\n\n7\n00:02:11,408 --> 00:02:28,820\n再來諸國榮一樣是如此棄保潛逃然後我們起訴了這些相關的人但是人還是跑出去了是不是諸國榮也是大家眾所矚目的經濟性的犯罪的案子\n\n8\n00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:36,786\n好再來百億賭王林秉文說跑到洛杉磯還有我們還懸賞金就是懸賞他就這林秉文不但跑掉而且極為囂張還在他的臉書來嗆立法委員嗆徐小新委員\n\n9\n00:02:48,855 --> 00:03:15,166\n後來被大家就舉國化然啊怎麼會有這麼囂張的這樣的已經潛逃出去還可以用臉書來嗆立法委員後來他只好關閉臉書啦其實他嗆的不是立法委員他嗆的是我們的政府他嗆的是我們的司法司法尊嚴掃地所以我請問一下我們幾位長官我剛才講的從鍾文智陳啟玉\n\n10\n00:03:16,707 --> 00:03:33,858\n郭聲敏朱國榮林秉文都是短短的一兩年發生的事情他不是十年前發生的事所以請問一下我們的院檢我們的警方到底出了什麼問題誰可以給我回答市長這麼多的案子\n\n11\n00:03:41,721 --> 00:04:01,686\n我知道周文智當然他的責任在院方這個是比較明確的很明確你們也做了處置可是這麼多案子你們給社會什麼樣的交代呢各位報告這涉及到法律面跟實務面執行面的問題在法律面的部分的確除了羈押制度之外其他的替代處分我們必須要強化\n\n12\n00:04:02,826 --> 00:04:23,797\n譬如說我們今天的主題羈押的替代處分是以電子監控這法例面我們具備之後實務執行面必須要檢察官法官他要多多的使用這些羈押替代處分所以我們把科技設備科技相關的措施把它優化之後讓檢察官法官他願意使用他是一個科技輔助被告避免他逃亡的方式那市長我請問一下我剛才講的這些當時我們有沒有用電子監控\n\n13\n00:04:28,359 --> 00:04:43,073\n跟我們報告有些事像陳菊的個案檢察官在申請後來是院方是沒有准科技監控所以我的意思就是說我說我們今天是有檢討就是我們電子監控這個制度是在的工具也都在的\n\n14\n00:04:44,053 --> 00:05:04,159\n只是不管是檢方或不管院方他要不要使用他即便使用的時候他什麼時候給他解除了解除的程序出現什麼樣的問題我想今天我們要討論的是這一部分可是我要說的是我們對一般的小老百姓老實講我不知道欸有時候我看到的我就認為就是政府啊怎麼讓精英犯罪那麼容易逃跑啊我認為的就是司法單位啊\n\n15\n00:05:09,401 --> 00:05:37,663\n所以這方面我們已經發函通靈我們全國的檢察官在符合羈押的要件之下當然要申請羈押如果當法院不支持的時候我們要依法來提醒綱告那相關的第一代處分我們在審查中審理中都要積極的主張好所以未來如果院方不願意採取電子監控或者在中間的過程裡面突然的解除了電子監控檢方一定會有正面積極的動作是嗎\n\n16\n00:05:39,844 --> 00:05:59,705\n當然我們剛剛已經跟委員報告在審理中我們已經邀請檢察官在符合特定的狀況之下要積極的主張電子監控那如果說他撤銷不撤銷或者變更我們才一定送給我們我們要積極的符合條件這要積極提及看告好那請來我們司法院蜂蜜處長可以說明一下嗎\n\n17\n00:06:02,277 --> 00:06:21,190\n這個部分確實就是說是否那個裁定羈押或者說使用什麼羈押那個替代處分這個部分是涉及法官那個審判那個的職權那當然就是說法官做了這樣裁定之後那就是要接受那個社會那個公平那我們司法行政端呢\n\n18\n00:06:21,650 --> 00:06:41,015\n就是其實這幾年來我們也一直就是加強就是有透過各種會議加強法官那個賠利就是對於這類那個案件的那個敏感度那還有就是畢竟就是說真的在符合這種就是有那個犯罪嫌疑重大或者是已經判了這個重罪之後呢\n\n19\n00:06:42,270 --> 00:07:05,005\n最有效的就是說不讓人跑走保全那個執行或是保全審判真的最有效就是羈押嘛再來的話他的替代處分確實使用這種科控他是有效的那所以我們這幾年呢我們也都就是鼓勵那個法官他去看看那個整個那個科控設備還有就是來參加這些那個研習讓他們了解說實際上這些是怎麼個那個運作的\n\n20\n00:07:06,025 --> 00:07:27,244\n對那這幾年鳳梅書長我跟你講這一次真的是會讓大家對於我們的司法對於我們的法院真的大失所望所以我希望包含我們院檢之間怎麼樣來做合作我剛才講了這麼多例子有些其實有些甚至事實上在檢防也不是在院防只是對我們一般民眾來講為什麼會覺得這樣的重大的經濟犯罪就這麼容易的這個逃跑\n\n21\n00:07:33,170 --> 00:07:35,400\n那個我請教那個我們的次長次長是\n\n22\n00:07:38,292 --> 00:07:56,402\n過去重大的選舉我們都有選舉專案不管是很多主要是全國性的選舉即便是縣市長選九合一選也是一樣那我們這次的這個罷免事實上也是全國性的雖然不是每一個縣市所以過去我們對於選舉專案當然有幾個重點查會選查賭盤查造謠對不對\n\n23\n00:08:03,766 --> 00:08:26,369\n可是我覺得到目前為止我沒有看到耶而且呢我們現在很多的造謠幾乎是漫天蓋地而且是無邊際的甚至我們很多的政府高官都加入造謠的行列以來助長這個罷免好那我要問的是請問一下現在以你們所掌握的\n\n24\n00:08:27,169 --> 00:08:35,957\n現在在罷免已經沒有地下賭盤了有嗎這個涉及到具體個案的情節各地檢署他都去掌握了他不會報到我們法務部\n\n25\n00:08:39,138 --> 00:09:01,427\n我沒有問任何個案我說有關於罷免的部分有沒有出現地下賭盤了你有沒有掌握各地檢署他一定會去掌握不是我法務部來掌握各地檢署他本來就我希望你們做我不是現在沒有在問你任何個案我王輝被罷免吳思堯委員也被罷免我沒有問你吳思堯有沒有地下賭盤王輝有沒有地下賭盤我只是問你\n\n26\n00:09:02,527 --> 00:09:10,592\n在這次罷免裡面有沒有出現地下賭盤來助長或者試圖去影響選舉我在這邊做具體的要求因為過去我們的重大選舉都會有這個專案我剛剛講嘛查會查地下賭盤還有查造謠好再來看現在的罷團的造謠我為什麼講已經到無法無天的狀態我自己個人這幾天啊\n\n27\n00:09:31,224 --> 00:09:38,647\n我也不想去新送我也不想去說一直佔用司法資源但是呢這個造謠已經到了極度的過分的狀態比如說假冒我的一個社群平台假冒我的身份來發文說我就是我是中國人然後呢我故意要搞亂台灣反正沒關係把台灣搞爛了我就可以去中國了\n\n28\n00:09:56,294 --> 00:10:10,647\n這個造謠這個假冒從今年初我就已經去提告然後我也澄清結果立刻這兩天再拿其他的造號繼續的來做無所謂所以現在的造謠是怎麼樣我過去我的選舉經驗算多的吧\n\n29\n00:10:19,615 --> 00:10:42,149\n我們過去也沒有到這樣的一個腐爛性的而且已經被澄清的已經被那個什麼甚至已經被提告繼續拿來無所謂來再來最近又跑出來說我到市場說人家不跟我握手我罵人家無恥我作為一個這麼久的政治人物請問在市場我怎麼會去\n\n30\n00:10:45,130 --> 00:11:02,826\n罵人家說你不跟我握手我就罵你無恥市場這麼多人啊不會引起群星激開嗎所以這樣子的文不但自己在那邊發文自己製造然後還有直接我這邊直接點名自由時報記者在凌晨深夜一點多來發這個\n\n31\n00:11:06,273 --> 00:11:27,645\n來發這個完全這個沒有任何事實根據也未經查證的請問一下我王蕙薇是美國股市嗎現在可能要凌晨發文的就是川普白宮有什麼發布關稅有什麼發布昨天最新的訊息或者美國股市怎麼樣已經到這種造謠無極限了好再來\n\n32\n00:11:29,970 --> 00:11:56,526\n來下一頁那你以為只有王宏威碰到嗎其實還有非常非常多的造謠的團體比如說我們過去的葉元芝這個委員說他服務處沒有開門這樣的完全沒有界限的在無法無天的造謠所以我要講的是罷免其實形同我們的一個重大的選舉\n\n33\n00:11:58,843 --> 00:12:18,434\n選舉罷免選舉罷免互相的嘛我承認我們現在罷免有很多的一些相關的它的法令是不足的比如說有關於政治獻金的部分甚至它的起跑日到現在為止因為我們都第一次罷免我們都不是非常清楚但是既然我們都進入了二階其實就已經進入\n\n34\n00:12:23,165 --> 00:12:51,505\n選舉的狀況了所以我剛才講這麼多的這些造謠跟罷免所以我希望我們相關單位好警政署為什麼也請那個警政署是對不起啊副局長是副局長副局長所以我在這邊要求的是我們選舉罷免應該要有一致性的一個標準它不應該有兩套標準\n\n35\n00:12:52,290 --> 00:13:14,159\n如果在選舉的時候不可以做的事情同樣罷免的時候也應該不可以做同不同意我沒有讓你用兩套標準是不是但是我知道因為我們這樣大規模罷免是我們真的是台灣第一次面臨到它幾乎已經是全國性的所以我在這邊要求我們\n\n36\n00:13:15,439 --> 00:13:23,933\n法務部要求我們警政署針對罷免的部分我剛說過去的選舉專案你們有加強查查我剛講說查會會選有沒有地下賭盤\n\n37\n00:13:31,621 --> 00:13:55,091\n這個賭博嘛而且試圖影響選舉的結果過去的地下賭盤其實它某一個程度都是在試圖影響選舉結果好還有這些造謠試圖我們說試圖使人不當選這個是試圖使人罷免而且完全我剛剛舉的例子都是完全無中生有的而這些都沒有辦法處理的話請問我們算什麼民主國家嘛\n\n38\n00:13:56,087 --> 00:14:09,725\n我們算民主國家嗎所以拜託我們法務部還有我們警政署針對這一次的全國性罷免請大家用這個選舉的這樣的標準來做查查好不好可以嗎市長可以嗎\n\n39\n00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:38,192\n首先跟委員報告啦在法律面我們就選舉跟罷免在我們選報法他是做同樣的同等的規範所以剛剛委員所提到的散佈謠言不時來影響罷免案的通過跟不通過跟我們選舉是一模一樣的刑罰處罰並沒有差別的待遇這法律面跟委員報告那執行面的部分當然這是檢警的天職那假如說在查查賄選或罷免案都會盡全力的來執行好的謝謝\n\n40\n00:14:41,547 --> 00:14:46,457\n好謝謝好那下一位我們請吳思瑤委員發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2773\t21419\t好 謝謝主席 我請司法院副秘書長 法務部部長副部長他10點去開會 所以 次長那就是次長還有警政署 副局長副組長\n24107\t41775\t大家早安 其實今天我們談的是這個鍾文智他的一個這個潛逃案那這個案子引起社會極大的震撼那大家認為說在台灣犯重罪怎麼可以這麼輕易的就逃跑\n42535\t56515\t但是問題是只有中文制這一件案子嗎我們過去這一年多來可以看到在各個重大特別市屬於經濟性犯罪的\n57438\t78078\t要逃跑很容易 非常容易 尤其是經濟性的犯罪而且我會發現說 你洗錢洗得越多你經濟犯罪金額越大 然後逃跑越容易你看看一下 包含我們過去的台鹽董事長陳啟玉他也一樣 潛逃\n82557\t111489\t而且他在國內耶應該看起來是在國內而到目前為止也不曉得 從來都沒有交代他逃國大概一個多月他到底在哪裡他曾經潛逃在哪裡哪些人幫助他潛逃到現在沒有任何的跟我們社會沒有任何交代喔他不是跑到泰國 他不是跑到大陸他不是跑到其他東南亞國家喔他在台灣喔有交代嗎 沒有交代好 再來\n112749\t128505\t過去的 88會館 郭哲敏他後來是從泰國引渡回來也是一樣啊 1億元交保看起來好像1億元很高對不對對不起 對這些經濟犯罪的人根本不算什麼 他照樣的潛逃出境\n131408\t148820\t再來 諸國榮 一樣是如此 棄保潛逃然後我們起訴了這些相關的人 但是人還是跑出去了 是不是諸國榮也是大家眾所矚目的 經濟性的犯罪的案子\n149600\t156786\t好 再來百億賭王林秉文說跑到洛杉磯還有我們還懸賞金 就是懸賞他就這林秉文不但跑掉 而且極為囂張還在他的臉書來嗆立法委員 嗆徐小新委員\n168855\t195166\t後來被大家就舉國化然啊怎麼會有這麼囂張的這樣的已經潛逃出去還可以用臉書來嗆立法委員後來他只好關閉臉書啦其實他嗆的不是立法委員他嗆的是我們的政府他嗆的是我們的司法司法尊嚴掃地所以我請問一下我們幾位長官我剛才講的從鍾文智 陳啟玉\n196707\t213858\t郭聲敏 朱國榮 林秉文都是短短的一兩年發生的事情他不是十年前發生的事所以請問一下我們的院檢 我們的警方到底出了什麼問題誰可以給我回答市長這麼多的案子\n221721\t241686\t我知道周文智當然他的責任在院方這個是比較明確的很明確你們也做了處置可是這麼多案子你們給社會什麼樣的交代呢各位報告這涉及到法律面跟實務面執行面的問題在法律面的部分的確除了羈押制度之外其他的替代處分我們必須要強化\n242826\t263797\t譬如說我們今天的主題 羈押的替代處分是以電子監控這法例面我們具備之後 實務執行面必須要檢察官法官他要多多的使用這些羈押替代處分所以我們把科技設備 科技相關的措施把它優化之後 讓檢察官法官他願意使用他是一個科技輔助被告 避免他逃亡的方式那市長我請問一下 我剛才講的這些當時我們有沒有用電子監控\n268359\t283073\t跟我們報告有些事像陳菊的個案檢察官在申請後來是院方是沒有准科技監控所以我的意思就是說我說我們今天是有檢討就是我們電子監控這個制度是在的工具也都在的\n284053\t304159\t只是不管是檢方或不管院方他要不要使用他即便使用的時候他什麼時候給他解除了解除的程序出現什麼樣的問題我想今天我們要討論的是這一部分可是我要說的是我們對一般的小老百姓老實講我不知道欸有時候我看到的我就認為就是政府啊怎麼讓精英犯罪那麼容易逃跑啊我認為的就是司法單位啊\n309401\t337663\t所以這方面我們已經發函通靈我們全國的檢察官在符合羈押的要件之下當然要申請羈押如果當法院不支持的時候我們要依法來提醒綱告那相關的第一代處分我們在審查中審理中都要積極的主張好 所以未來如果院方不願意採取電子監控或者在中間的過程裡面突然的解除了電子監控檢方一定會有正面積極的動作是嗎\n339844\t359705\t當然我們剛剛已經跟委員報告在審理中我們已經邀請檢察官在符合特定的狀況之下要積極的主張電子監控那如果說他撤銷不撤銷或者變更我們才一定送給我們我們要積極的符合條件這要積極提及看告好那請來我們司法院蜂蜜處長可以說明一下嗎\n362277\t381190\t這個部分確實就是說是否那個裁定羈押或者說使用什麼羈押那個替代處分這個部分是涉及法官那個審判那個的職權那當然就是說法官做了這樣裁定之後那就是要接受那個社會那個公平那我們司法行政端呢\n381650\t401015\t就是其實這幾年來我們也一直就是加強就是有透過各種會議加強法官那個賠利就是對於這類那個案件的那個敏感度那還有就是畢竟就是說真的在符合這種就是有那個犯罪嫌疑重大或者是已經判了這個重罪之後呢\n402270\t425005\t最有效的就是說不讓人跑走保全那個執行或是保全審判真的最有效就是羈押嘛再來的話他的替代處分確實使用這種科控他是有效的那所以我們這幾年呢我們也都就是鼓勵那個法官他去看看那個整個那個科控設備還有就是來參加這些那個研習讓他們了解說實際上這些是怎麼個那個運作的\n426025\t447244\t對 那這幾年 鳳梅書長我跟你講這一次真的是會讓大家對於我們的司法 對於我們的法院真的大失所望所以我希望包含我們院檢之間怎麼樣來做合作我剛才講了這麼多例子有些其實有些甚至事實上在檢防也不是在院防只是對我們一般民眾來講為什麼會覺得這樣的重大的經濟犯罪就這麼容易的這個逃跑\n453170\t455400\t那個我請教那個我們的次長次長是\n458292\t476402\t過去重大的選舉 我們都有選舉專案不管是 很多 主要是全國性的選舉 即便是縣市長選 九合一選也是一樣那我們這次的這個罷免 事實上也是全國性的雖然不是每一個縣市所以過去我們對於選舉專案 當然有幾個重點查會選 查賭盤 查造謠 對不對\n483766\t506369\t可是我覺得到目前為止我沒有看到耶而且呢我們現在很多的造謠幾乎是漫天蓋地而且是無邊際的甚至我們很多的政府高官都加入造謠的行列以來助長這個罷免好那我要問的是請問一下現在以你們所掌握的\n507169\t515957\t現在在罷免已經沒有地下賭盤了有嗎這個涉及到具體個案的情節各地檢署他都去掌握了他不會報到我們法務部\n519138\t541427\t我沒有問任何個案我說有關於罷免的部分有沒有出現地下賭盤了你有沒有掌握各地檢署他一定會去掌握不是我法務部來掌握各地檢署他本來就我希望你們做我不是現在沒有在問你任何個案我王輝被罷免吳思堯委員也被罷免我沒有問你吳思堯有沒有地下賭盤王輝有沒有地下賭盤我只是問你\n542527\t550592\t在這次罷免裡面有沒有出現地下賭盤來助長或者試圖去影響選舉我在這邊做具體的要求因為過去我們的重大選舉都會有這個專案我剛剛講嘛查會查地下賭盤還有查造謠好 再來看現在的罷團的造謠我為什麼講已經到無法無天的狀態我自己個人這幾天啊\n571224\t578647\t我也不想去新送 我也不想去說一直佔用司法資源但是呢 這個造謠已經到了極度的過分的狀態比如說假冒我的一個社群平台 假冒我的身份來發文說我就是 我是中國人 然後呢 我故意要搞亂台灣反正沒關係 把台灣搞爛了 我就可以去中國了\n596294\t610647\t這個造謠這個假冒從今年初我就已經去提告然後我也澄清結果立刻這兩天再拿其他的造號繼續的來做無所謂所以現在的造謠是怎麼樣我過去我的選舉經驗算多的吧\n619615\t642149\t我們過去也沒有到這樣的一個腐爛性的而且已經被澄清的 已經被那個什麼甚至已經被提告 繼續拿來 無所謂來 再來最近又跑出來說 我到市場說人家不跟我握手 我罵人家無恥我作為一個這麼久的政治人物 請問在市場 我怎麼會去\n645130\t662826\t罵人家說你不跟我握手我就罵你無恥市場這麼多人啊不會引起群星激開嗎所以這樣子的文不但自己在那邊發文自己製造然後還有直接我這邊直接點名自由時報記者在凌晨深夜一點多來發這個\n666273\t687645\t來發這個完全這個沒有任何事實根據 也未經查證的請問一下我王蕙薇是美國股市嗎現在可能要凌晨發文的就是川普白宮有什麼發布關稅有什麼發布 昨天最新的訊息或者美國股市怎麼樣已經到這種造謠無極限了 好再來\n689970\t716526\t來 下一頁 那你以為只有王宏威碰到嗎其實還有非常非常多的 造謠的團體 比如說我們過去的葉元芝這個委員 說他服務處沒有開門這樣的 完全沒有界限的 在無法無天的造謠所以我要講的是 罷免其實形同我們的一個重大的選舉\n718843\t738434\t選舉罷免 選舉罷免 互相的嘛我承認我們現在罷免有很多的一些相關的 它的法令是不足的比如說有關於政治獻金的部分甚至它的起跑日 到現在為止因為我們都第一次罷免 我們都不是非常清楚但是 既然我們都進入了二階其實就已經進入\n743165\t771505\t選舉的狀況了所以我剛才講這麼多的這些造謠跟罷免所以我希望我們相關單位好 警政署為什麼也請那個警政署是對不起啊副局長是副局長副局長所以我在這邊要求的是我們選舉罷免應該要有一致性的一個標準它不應該有兩套標準\n772290\t794159\t如果在選舉的時候不可以做的事情同樣罷免的時候也應該不可以做同不同意我沒有讓你用兩套標準是不是但是我知道因為我們這樣大規模罷免是我們真的是台灣第一次面臨到它幾乎已經是全國性的所以我在這邊要求我們\n795439\t803933\t法務部要求我們警政署針對罷免的部分我剛說過去的選舉專案你們有加強查查我剛講說查會會選有沒有地下賭盤\n811621\t835091\t這個賭博嘛 而且試圖影響選舉的結果 過去的地下賭盤其實它某一個程度都是在試圖影響選舉結果好 還有這些造謠 試圖 我們說試圖使人不當選這個是試圖使人罷免而且完全 我剛剛舉的例子 都是完全無中生有的而這些都沒有辦法處理的話 請問我們算什麼民主國家嘛\n836087\t849725\t我們算民主國家嗎所以拜託我們法務部還有我們警政署針對這一次的全國性罷免請大家用這個選舉的這樣的標準來做查查好不好可以嗎 市長可以嗎\n852200\t878192\t首先跟委員報告啦在法律面我們就選舉跟罷免在我們選報法他是做同樣的同等的規範所以剛剛委員所提到的散佈謠言不時來影響罷免案的通過跟不通過跟我們選舉是一模一樣的刑罰處罰並沒有差別的待遇這法律面跟委員報告那執行面的部分當然這是檢警的天職那假如說在查查賄選或罷免案都會盡全力的來執行好的謝謝\n881547\t886457\t好 謝謝好 那下一位我們請吳思瑤委員發言\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 我請司法院副秘書長 法務部部長副部長他10點去開會 所以 次長那就是次長還有警政署 副局長副組長\n大家早安 其實今天我們談的是這個鍾文智他的一個這個潛逃案那這個案子引起社會極大的震撼那大家認為說在台灣犯重罪怎麼可以這麼輕易的就逃跑\n但是問題是只有中文制這一件案子嗎我們過去這一年多來可以看到在各個重大特別市屬於經濟性犯罪的\n要逃跑很容易 非常容易 尤其是經濟性的犯罪而且我會發現說 你洗錢洗得越多你經濟犯罪金額越大 然後逃跑越容易你看看一下 包含我們過去的台鹽董事長陳啟玉他也一樣 潛逃\n而且他在國內耶應該看起來是在國內而到目前為止也不曉得 從來都沒有交代他逃國大概一個多月他到底在哪裡他曾經潛逃在哪裡哪些人幫助他潛逃到現在沒有任何的跟我們社會沒有任何交代喔他不是跑到泰國 他不是跑到大陸他不是跑到其他東南亞國家喔他在台灣喔有交代嗎 沒有交代好 再來\n過去的 88會館 郭哲敏他後來是從泰國引渡回來也是一樣啊 1億元交保看起來好像1億元很高對不對對不起 對這些經濟犯罪的人根本不算什麼 他照樣的潛逃出境\n再來 諸國榮 一樣是如此 棄保潛逃然後我們起訴了這些相關的人 但是人還是跑出去了 是不是諸國榮也是大家眾所矚目的 經濟性的犯罪的案子\n好 再來百億賭王林秉文說跑到洛杉磯還有我們還懸賞金 就是懸賞他就這林秉文不但跑掉 而且極為囂張還在他的臉書來嗆立法委員 嗆徐小新委員\n後來被大家就舉國化然啊怎麼會有這麼囂張的這樣的已經潛逃出去還可以用臉書來嗆立法委員後來他只好關閉臉書啦其實他嗆的不是立法委員他嗆的是我們的政府他嗆的是我們的司法司法尊嚴掃地所以我請問一下我們幾位長官我剛才講的從鍾文智 陳啟玉\n郭聲敏 朱國榮 林秉文都是短短的一兩年發生的事情他不是十年前發生的事所以請問一下我們的院檢 我們的警方到底出了什麼問題誰可以給我回答市長這麼多的案子\n我知道周文智當然他的責任在院方這個是比較明確的很明確你們也做了處置可是這麼多案子你們給社會什麼樣的交代呢各位報告這涉及到法律面跟實務面執行面的問題在法律面的部分的確除了羈押制度之外其他的替代處分我們必須要強化\n譬如說我們今天的主題 羈押的替代處分是以電子監控這法例面我們具備之後 實務執行面必須要檢察官法官他要多多的使用這些羈押替代處分所以我們把科技設備 科技相關的措施把它優化之後 讓檢察官法官他願意使用他是一個科技輔助被告 避免他逃亡的方式那市長我請問一下 我剛才講的這些當時我們有沒有用電子監控\n跟我們報告有些事像陳菊的個案檢察官在申請後來是院方是沒有准科技監控所以我的意思就是說我說我們今天是有檢討就是我們電子監控這個制度是在的工具也都在的\n只是不管是檢方或不管院方他要不要使用他即便使用的時候他什麼時候給他解除了解除的程序出現什麼樣的問題我想今天我們要討論的是這一部分可是我要說的是我們對一般的小老百姓老實講我不知道欸有時候我看到的我就認為就是政府啊怎麼讓精英犯罪那麼容易逃跑啊我認為的就是司法單位啊\n所以這方面我們已經發函通靈我們全國的檢察官在符合羈押的要件之下當然要申請羈押如果當法院不支持的時候我們要依法來提醒綱告那相關的第一代處分我們在審查中審理中都要積極的主張好 所以未來如果院方不願意採取電子監控或者在中間的過程裡面突然的解除了電子監控檢方一定會有正面積極的動作是嗎\n當然我們剛剛已經跟委員報告在審理中我們已經邀請檢察官在符合特定的狀況之下要積極的主張電子監控那如果說他撤銷不撤銷或者變更我們才一定送給我們我們要積極的符合條件這要積極提及看告好那請來我們司法院蜂蜜處長可以說明一下嗎\n這個部分確實就是說是否那個裁定羈押或者說使用什麼羈押那個替代處分這個部分是涉及法官那個審判那個的職權那當然就是說法官做了這樣裁定之後那就是要接受那個社會那個公平那我們司法行政端呢\n就是其實這幾年來我們也一直就是加強就是有透過各種會議加強法官那個賠利就是對於這類那個案件的那個敏感度那還有就是畢竟就是說真的在符合這種就是有那個犯罪嫌疑重大或者是已經判了這個重罪之後呢\n最有效的就是說不讓人跑走保全那個執行或是保全審判真的最有效就是羈押嘛再來的話他的替代處分確實使用這種科控他是有效的那所以我們這幾年呢我們也都就是鼓勵那個法官他去看看那個整個那個科控設備還有就是來參加這些那個研習讓他們了解說實際上這些是怎麼個那個運作的\n對 那這幾年 鳳梅書長我跟你講這一次真的是會讓大家對於我們的司法 對於我們的法院真的大失所望所以我希望包含我們院檢之間怎麼樣來做合作我剛才講了這麼多例子有些其實有些甚至事實上在檢防也不是在院防只是對我們一般民眾來講為什麼會覺得這樣的重大的經濟犯罪就這麼容易的這個逃跑\n那個我請教那個我們的次長次長是\n過去重大的選舉 我們都有選舉專案不管是 很多 主要是全國性的選舉 即便是縣市長選 九合一選也是一樣那我們這次的這個罷免 事實上也是全國性的雖然不是每一個縣市所以過去我們對於選舉專案 當然有幾個重點查會選 查賭盤 查造謠 對不對\n可是我覺得到目前為止我沒有看到耶而且呢我們現在很多的造謠幾乎是漫天蓋地而且是無邊際的甚至我們很多的政府高官都加入造謠的行列以來助長這個罷免好那我要問的是請問一下現在以你們所掌握的\n現在在罷免已經沒有地下賭盤了有嗎這個涉及到具體個案的情節各地檢署他都去掌握了他不會報到我們法務部\n我沒有問任何個案我說有關於罷免的部分有沒有出現地下賭盤了你有沒有掌握各地檢署他一定會去掌握不是我法務部來掌握各地檢署他本來就我希望你們做我不是現在沒有在問你任何個案我王輝被罷免吳思堯委員也被罷免我沒有問你吳思堯有沒有地下賭盤王輝有沒有地下賭盤我只是問你\n在這次罷免裡面有沒有出現地下賭盤來助長或者試圖去影響選舉我在這邊做具體的要求因為過去我們的重大選舉都會有這個專案我剛剛講嘛查會查地下賭盤還有查造謠好 再來看現在的罷團的造謠我為什麼講已經到無法無天的狀態我自己個人這幾天啊\n我也不想去新送 我也不想去說一直佔用司法資源但是呢 這個造謠已經到了極度的過分的狀態比如說假冒我的一個社群平台 假冒我的身份來發文說我就是 我是中國人 然後呢 我故意要搞亂台灣反正沒關係 把台灣搞爛了 我就可以去中國了\n這個造謠這個假冒從今年初我就已經去提告然後我也澄清結果立刻這兩天再拿其他的造號繼續的來做無所謂所以現在的造謠是怎麼樣我過去我的選舉經驗算多的吧\n我們過去也沒有到這樣的一個腐爛性的而且已經被澄清的 已經被那個什麼甚至已經被提告 繼續拿來 無所謂來 再來最近又跑出來說 我到市場說人家不跟我握手 我罵人家無恥我作為一個這麼久的政治人物 請問在市場 我怎麼會去\n罵人家說你不跟我握手我就罵你無恥市場這麼多人啊不會引起群星激開嗎所以這樣子的文不但自己在那邊發文自己製造然後還有直接我這邊直接點名自由時報記者在凌晨深夜一點多來發這個\n來發這個完全這個沒有任何事實根據 也未經查證的請問一下我王蕙薇是美國股市嗎現在可能要凌晨發文的就是川普白宮有什麼發布關稅有什麼發布 昨天最新的訊息或者美國股市怎麼樣已經到這種造謠無極限了 好再來\n來 下一頁 那你以為只有王宏威碰到嗎其實還有非常非常多的 造謠的團體 比如說我們過去的葉元芝這個委員 說他服務處沒有開門這樣的 完全沒有界限的 在無法無天的造謠所以我要講的是 罷免其實形同我們的一個重大的選舉\n選舉罷免 選舉罷免 互相的嘛我承認我們現在罷免有很多的一些相關的 它的法令是不足的比如說有關於政治獻金的部分甚至它的起跑日 到現在為止因為我們都第一次罷免 我們都不是非常清楚但是 既然我們都進入了二階其實就已經進入\n選舉的狀況了所以我剛才講這麼多的這些造謠跟罷免所以我希望我們相關單位好 警政署為什麼也請那個警政署是對不起啊副局長是副局長副局長所以我在這邊要求的是我們選舉罷免應該要有一致性的一個標準它不應該有兩套標準\n如果在選舉的時候不可以做的事情同樣罷免的時候也應該不可以做同不同意我沒有讓你用兩套標準是不是但是我知道因為我們這樣大規模罷免是我們真的是台灣第一次面臨到它幾乎已經是全國性的所以我在這邊要求我們\n法務部要求我們警政署針對罷免的部分我剛說過去的選舉專案你們有加強查查我剛講說查會會選有沒有地下賭盤\n這個賭博嘛 而且試圖影響選舉的結果 過去的地下賭盤其實它某一個程度都是在試圖影響選舉結果好 還有這些造謠 試圖 我們說試圖使人不當選這個是試圖使人罷免而且完全 我剛剛舉的例子 都是完全無中生有的而這些都沒有辦法處理的話 請問我們算什麼民主國家嘛\n我們算民主國家嗎所以拜託我們法務部還有我們警政署針對這一次的全國性罷免請大家用這個選舉的這樣的標準來做查查好不好可以嗎 市長可以嗎\n首先跟委員報告啦在法律面我們就選舉跟罷免在我們選報法他是做同樣的同等的規範所以剛剛委員所提到的散佈謠言不時來影響罷免案的通過跟不通過跟我們選舉是一模一樣的刑罰處罰並沒有差別的待遇這法律面跟委員報告那執行面的部分當然這是檢警的天職那假如說在查查賄選或罷免案都會盡全力的來執行好的謝謝\n好 謝謝好 那下一位我們請吳思瑤委員發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.773 --> 00:21.419\n好謝謝主席我請司法院副秘書長法務部部長副部長他10點去開會所以次長那就是次長還有警政署副局長副組長\n\n00:24.107 --> 00:41.775\n大家早安其實今天我們談的是這個鍾文智他的一個這個潛逃案那這個案子引起社會極大的震撼那大家認為說在台灣犯重罪怎麼可以這麼輕易的就逃跑\n\n00:42.535 --> 00:56.515\n但是問題是只有中文制這一件案子嗎我們過去這一年多來可以看到在各個重大特別市屬於經濟性犯罪的\n\n00:57.438 --> 01:18.078\n要逃跑很容易非常容易尤其是經濟性的犯罪而且我會發現說你洗錢洗得越多你經濟犯罪金額越大然後逃跑越容易你看看一下包含我們過去的台鹽董事長陳啟玉他也一樣潛逃\n\n01:22.557 --> 01:51.489\n而且他在國內耶應該看起來是在國內而到目前為止也不曉得從來都沒有交代他逃國大概一個多月他到底在哪裡他曾經潛逃在哪裡哪些人幫助他潛逃到現在沒有任何的跟我們社會沒有任何交代喔他不是跑到泰國他不是跑到大陸他不是跑到其他東南亞國家喔他在台灣喔有交代嗎沒有交代好再來\n\n01:52.749 --> 02:08.505\n過去的88會館郭哲敏他後來是從泰國引渡回來也是一樣啊1億元交保看起來好像1億元很高對不對對不起對這些經濟犯罪的人根本不算什麼他照樣的潛逃出境\n\n02:11.408 --> 02:28.820\n再來諸國榮一樣是如此棄保潛逃然後我們起訴了這些相關的人但是人還是跑出去了是不是諸國榮也是大家眾所矚目的經濟性的犯罪的案子\n\n02:29.600 --> 02:36.786\n好再來百億賭王林秉文說跑到洛杉磯還有我們還懸賞金就是懸賞他就這林秉文不但跑掉而且極為囂張還在他的臉書來嗆立法委員嗆徐小新委員\n\n02:48.855 --> 03:15.166\n後來被大家就舉國化然啊怎麼會有這麼囂張的這樣的已經潛逃出去還可以用臉書來嗆立法委員後來他只好關閉臉書啦其實他嗆的不是立法委員他嗆的是我們的政府他嗆的是我們的司法司法尊嚴掃地所以我請問一下我們幾位長官我剛才講的從鍾文智陳啟玉\n\n03:16.707 --> 03:33.858\n郭聲敏朱國榮林秉文都是短短的一兩年發生的事情他不是十年前發生的事所以請問一下我們的院檢我們的警方到底出了什麼問題誰可以給我回答市長這麼多的案子\n\n03:41.721 --> 04:01.686\n我知道周文智當然他的責任在院方這個是比較明確的很明確你們也做了處置可是這麼多案子你們給社會什麼樣的交代呢各位報告這涉及到法律面跟實務面執行面的問題在法律面的部分的確除了羈押制度之外其他的替代處分我們必須要強化\n\n04:02.826 --> 04:23.797\n譬如說我們今天的主題羈押的替代處分是以電子監控這法例面我們具備之後實務執行面必須要檢察官法官他要多多的使用這些羈押替代處分所以我們把科技設備科技相關的措施把它優化之後讓檢察官法官他願意使用他是一個科技輔助被告避免他逃亡的方式那市長我請問一下我剛才講的這些當時我們有沒有用電子監控\n\n04:28.359 --> 04:43.073\n跟我們報告有些事像陳菊的個案檢察官在申請後來是院方是沒有准科技監控所以我的意思就是說我說我們今天是有檢討就是我們電子監控這個制度是在的工具也都在的\n\n04:44.053 --> 05:04.159\n只是不管是檢方或不管院方他要不要使用他即便使用的時候他什麼時候給他解除了解除的程序出現什麼樣的問題我想今天我們要討論的是這一部分可是我要說的是我們對一般的小老百姓老實講我不知道欸有時候我看到的我就認為就是政府啊怎麼讓精英犯罪那麼容易逃跑啊我認為的就是司法單位啊\n\n05:09.401 --> 05:37.663\n所以這方面我們已經發函通靈我們全國的檢察官在符合羈押的要件之下當然要申請羈押如果當法院不支持的時候我們要依法來提醒綱告那相關的第一代處分我們在審查中審理中都要積極的主張好所以未來如果院方不願意採取電子監控或者在中間的過程裡面突然的解除了電子監控檢方一定會有正面積極的動作是嗎\n\n05:39.844 --> 05:59.705\n當然我們剛剛已經跟委員報告在審理中我們已經邀請檢察官在符合特定的狀況之下要積極的主張電子監控那如果說他撤銷不撤銷或者變更我們才一定送給我們我們要積極的符合條件這要積極提及看告好那請來我們司法院蜂蜜處長可以說明一下嗎\n\n06:02.277 --> 06:21.190\n這個部分確實就是說是否那個裁定羈押或者說使用什麼羈押那個替代處分這個部分是涉及法官那個審判那個的職權那當然就是說法官做了這樣裁定之後那就是要接受那個社會那個公平那我們司法行政端呢\n\n06:21.650 --> 06:41.015\n就是其實這幾年來我們也一直就是加強就是有透過各種會議加強法官那個賠利就是對於這類那個案件的那個敏感度那還有就是畢竟就是說真的在符合這種就是有那個犯罪嫌疑重大或者是已經判了這個重罪之後呢\n\n06:42.270 --> 07:05.005\n最有效的就是說不讓人跑走保全那個執行或是保全審判真的最有效就是羈押嘛再來的話他的替代處分確實使用這種科控他是有效的那所以我們這幾年呢我們也都就是鼓勵那個法官他去看看那個整個那個科控設備還有就是來參加這些那個研習讓他們了解說實際上這些是怎麼個那個運作的\n\n07:06.025 --> 07:27.244\n對那這幾年鳳梅書長我跟你講這一次真的是會讓大家對於我們的司法對於我們的法院真的大失所望所以我希望包含我們院檢之間怎麼樣來做合作我剛才講了這麼多例子有些其實有些甚至事實上在檢防也不是在院防只是對我們一般民眾來講為什麼會覺得這樣的重大的經濟犯罪就這麼容易的這個逃跑\n\n07:33.170 --> 07:35.400\n那個我請教那個我們的次長次長是\n\n07:38.292 --> 07:56.402\n過去重大的選舉我們都有選舉專案不管是很多主要是全國性的選舉即便是縣市長選九合一選也是一樣那我們這次的這個罷免事實上也是全國性的雖然不是每一個縣市所以過去我們對於選舉專案當然有幾個重點查會選查賭盤查造謠對不對\n\n08:03.766 --> 08:26.369\n可是我覺得到目前為止我沒有看到耶而且呢我們現在很多的造謠幾乎是漫天蓋地而且是無邊際的甚至我們很多的政府高官都加入造謠的行列以來助長這個罷免好那我要問的是請問一下現在以你們所掌握的\n\n08:27.169 --> 08:35.957\n現在在罷免已經沒有地下賭盤了有嗎這個涉及到具體個案的情節各地檢署他都去掌握了他不會報到我們法務部\n\n08:39.138 --> 09:01.427\n我沒有問任何個案我說有關於罷免的部分有沒有出現地下賭盤了你有沒有掌握各地檢署他一定會去掌握不是我法務部來掌握各地檢署他本來就我希望你們做我不是現在沒有在問你任何個案我王輝被罷免吳思堯委員也被罷免我沒有問你吳思堯有沒有地下賭盤王輝有沒有地下賭盤我只是問你\n\n09:02.527 --> 09:10.592\n在這次罷免裡面有沒有出現地下賭盤來助長或者試圖去影響選舉我在這邊做具體的要求因為過去我們的重大選舉都會有這個專案我剛剛講嘛查會查地下賭盤還有查造謠好再來看現在的罷團的造謠我為什麼講已經到無法無天的狀態我自己個人這幾天啊\n\n09:31.224 --> 09:38.647\n我也不想去新送我也不想去說一直佔用司法資源但是呢這個造謠已經到了極度的過分的狀態比如說假冒我的一個社群平台假冒我的身份來發文說我就是我是中國人然後呢我故意要搞亂台灣反正沒關係把台灣搞爛了我就可以去中國了\n\n09:56.294 --> 10:10.647\n這個造謠這個假冒從今年初我就已經去提告然後我也澄清結果立刻這兩天再拿其他的造號繼續的來做無所謂所以現在的造謠是怎麼樣我過去我的選舉經驗算多的吧\n\n10:19.615 --> 10:42.149\n我們過去也沒有到這樣的一個腐爛性的而且已經被澄清的已經被那個什麼甚至已經被提告繼續拿來無所謂來再來最近又跑出來說我到市場說人家不跟我握手我罵人家無恥我作為一個這麼久的政治人物請問在市場我怎麼會去\n\n10:45.130 --> 11:02.826\n罵人家說你不跟我握手我就罵你無恥市場這麼多人啊不會引起群星激開嗎所以這樣子的文不但自己在那邊發文自己製造然後還有直接我這邊直接點名自由時報記者在凌晨深夜一點多來發這個\n\n11:06.273 --> 11:27.645\n來發這個完全這個沒有任何事實根據也未經查證的請問一下我王蕙薇是美國股市嗎現在可能要凌晨發文的就是川普白宮有什麼發布關稅有什麼發布昨天最新的訊息或者美國股市怎麼樣已經到這種造謠無極限了好再來\n\n11:29.970 --> 11:56.526\n來下一頁那你以為只有王宏威碰到嗎其實還有非常非常多的造謠的團體比如說我們過去的葉元芝這個委員說他服務處沒有開門這樣的完全沒有界限的在無法無天的造謠所以我要講的是罷免其實形同我們的一個重大的選舉\n\n11:58.843 --> 12:18.434\n選舉罷免選舉罷免互相的嘛我承認我們現在罷免有很多的一些相關的它的法令是不足的比如說有關於政治獻金的部分甚至它的起跑日到現在為止因為我們都第一次罷免我們都不是非常清楚但是既然我們都進入了二階其實就已經進入\n\n12:23.165 --> 12:51.505\n選舉的狀況了所以我剛才講這麼多的這些造謠跟罷免所以我希望我們相關單位好警政署為什麼也請那個警政署是對不起啊副局長是副局長副局長所以我在這邊要求的是我們選舉罷免應該要有一致性的一個標準它不應該有兩套標準\n\n12:52.290 --> 13:14.159\n如果在選舉的時候不可以做的事情同樣罷免的時候也應該不可以做同不同意我沒有讓你用兩套標準是不是但是我知道因為我們這樣大規模罷免是我們真的是台灣第一次面臨到它幾乎已經是全國性的所以我在這邊要求我們\n\n13:15.439 --> 13:23.933\n法務部要求我們警政署針對罷免的部分我剛說過去的選舉專案你們有加強查查我剛講說查會會選有沒有地下賭盤\n\n13:31.621 --> 13:55.091\n這個賭博嘛而且試圖影響選舉的結果過去的地下賭盤其實它某一個程度都是在試圖影響選舉結果好還有這些造謠試圖我們說試圖使人不當選這個是試圖使人罷免而且完全我剛剛舉的例子都是完全無中生有的而這些都沒有辦法處理的話請問我們算什麼民主國家嘛\n\n13:56.087 --> 14:09.725\n我們算民主國家嗎所以拜託我們法務部還有我們警政署針對這一次的全國性罷免請大家用這個選舉的這樣的標準來做查查好不好可以嗎市長可以嗎\n\n14:12.200 --> 14:38.192\n首先跟委員報告啦在法律面我們就選舉跟罷免在我們選報法他是做同樣的同等的規範所以剛剛委員所提到的散佈謠言不時來影響罷免案的通過跟不通過跟我們選舉是一模一樣的刑罰處罰並沒有差別的待遇這法律面跟委員報告那執行面的部分當然這是檢警的天職那假如說在查查賄選或罷免案都會盡全力的來執行好的謝謝\n\n14:41.547 --> 14:46.457\n好謝謝好那下一位我們請吳思瑤委員發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.773,"end":21.419,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我請司法院副秘書長 法務部部長副部長他10點去開會 所以 次長那就是次長還有警政署 副局長副組長"},{"start":24.107,"end":41.775,"text":"大家早安 其實今天我們談的是這個鍾文智他的一個這個潛逃案那這個案子引起社會極大的震撼那大家認為說在台灣犯重罪怎麼可以這麼輕易的就逃跑"},{"start":42.535,"end":56.515,"text":"但是問題是只有中文制這一件案子嗎我們過去這一年多來可以看到在各個重大特別市屬於經濟性犯罪的"},{"start":57.438,"end":78.078,"text":"要逃跑很容易 非常容易 尤其是經濟性的犯罪而且我會發現說 你洗錢洗得越多你經濟犯罪金額越大 然後逃跑越容易你看看一下 包含我們過去的台鹽董事長陳啟玉他也一樣 潛逃"},{"start":82.557,"end":111.489,"text":"而且他在國內耶應該看起來是在國內而到目前為止也不曉得 從來都沒有交代他逃國大概一個多月他到底在哪裡他曾經潛逃在哪裡哪些人幫助他潛逃到現在沒有任何的跟我們社會沒有任何交代喔他不是跑到泰國 他不是跑到大陸他不是跑到其他東南亞國家喔他在台灣喔有交代嗎 沒有交代好 再來"},{"start":112.749,"end":128.505,"text":"過去的 88會館 郭哲敏他後來是從泰國引渡回來也是一樣啊 1億元交保看起來好像1億元很高對不對對不起 對這些經濟犯罪的人根本不算什麼 他照樣的潛逃出境"},{"start":131.408,"end":148.82,"text":"再來 諸國榮 一樣是如此 棄保潛逃然後我們起訴了這些相關的人 但是人還是跑出去了 是不是諸國榮也是大家眾所矚目的 經濟性的犯罪的案子"},{"start":149.6,"end":156.786,"text":"好 再來百億賭王林秉文說跑到洛杉磯還有我們還懸賞金 就是懸賞他就這林秉文不但跑掉 而且極為囂張還在他的臉書來嗆立法委員 嗆徐小新委員"},{"start":168.855,"end":195.166,"text":"後來被大家就舉國化然啊怎麼會有這麼囂張的這樣的已經潛逃出去還可以用臉書來嗆立法委員後來他只好關閉臉書啦其實他嗆的不是立法委員他嗆的是我們的政府他嗆的是我們的司法司法尊嚴掃地所以我請問一下我們幾位長官我剛才講的從鍾文智 陳啟玉"},{"start":196.707,"end":213.858,"text":"郭聲敏 朱國榮 林秉文都是短短的一兩年發生的事情他不是十年前發生的事所以請問一下我們的院檢 我們的警方到底出了什麼問題誰可以給我回答市長這麼多的案子"},{"start":221.721,"end":241.686,"text":"我知道周文智當然他的責任在院方這個是比較明確的很明確你們也做了處置可是這麼多案子你們給社會什麼樣的交代呢各位報告這涉及到法律面跟實務面執行面的問題在法律面的部分的確除了羈押制度之外其他的替代處分我們必須要強化"},{"start":242.826,"end":263.797,"text":"譬如說我們今天的主題 羈押的替代處分是以電子監控這法例面我們具備之後 實務執行面必須要檢察官法官他要多多的使用這些羈押替代處分所以我們把科技設備 科技相關的措施把它優化之後 讓檢察官法官他願意使用他是一個科技輔助被告 避免他逃亡的方式那市長我請問一下 我剛才講的這些當時我們有沒有用電子監控"},{"start":268.359,"end":283.073,"text":"跟我們報告有些事像陳菊的個案檢察官在申請後來是院方是沒有准科技監控所以我的意思就是說我說我們今天是有檢討就是我們電子監控這個制度是在的工具也都在的"},{"start":284.053,"end":304.159,"text":"只是不管是檢方或不管院方他要不要使用他即便使用的時候他什麼時候給他解除了解除的程序出現什麼樣的問題我想今天我們要討論的是這一部分可是我要說的是我們對一般的小老百姓老實講我不知道欸有時候我看到的我就認為就是政府啊怎麼讓精英犯罪那麼容易逃跑啊我認為的就是司法單位啊"},{"start":309.401,"end":337.663,"text":"所以這方面我們已經發函通靈我們全國的檢察官在符合羈押的要件之下當然要申請羈押如果當法院不支持的時候我們要依法來提醒綱告那相關的第一代處分我們在審查中審理中都要積極的主張好 所以未來如果院方不願意採取電子監控或者在中間的過程裡面突然的解除了電子監控檢方一定會有正面積極的動作是嗎"},{"start":339.844,"end":359.705,"text":"當然我們剛剛已經跟委員報告在審理中我們已經邀請檢察官在符合特定的狀況之下要積極的主張電子監控那如果說他撤銷不撤銷或者變更我們才一定送給我們我們要積極的符合條件這要積極提及看告好那請來我們司法院蜂蜜處長可以說明一下嗎"},{"start":362.277,"end":381.19,"text":"這個部分確實就是說是否那個裁定羈押或者說使用什麼羈押那個替代處分這個部分是涉及法官那個審判那個的職權那當然就是說法官做了這樣裁定之後那就是要接受那個社會那個公平那我們司法行政端呢"},{"start":381.65,"end":401.015,"text":"就是其實這幾年來我們也一直就是加強就是有透過各種會議加強法官那個賠利就是對於這類那個案件的那個敏感度那還有就是畢竟就是說真的在符合這種就是有那個犯罪嫌疑重大或者是已經判了這個重罪之後呢"},{"start":402.27,"end":425.005,"text":"最有效的就是說不讓人跑走保全那個執行或是保全審判真的最有效就是羈押嘛再來的話他的替代處分確實使用這種科控他是有效的那所以我們這幾年呢我們也都就是鼓勵那個法官他去看看那個整個那個科控設備還有就是來參加這些那個研習讓他們了解說實際上這些是怎麼個那個運作的"},{"start":426.025,"end":447.244,"text":"對 那這幾年 鳳梅書長我跟你講這一次真的是會讓大家對於我們的司法 對於我們的法院真的大失所望所以我希望包含我們院檢之間怎麼樣來做合作我剛才講了這麼多例子有些其實有些甚至事實上在檢防也不是在院防只是對我們一般民眾來講為什麼會覺得這樣的重大的經濟犯罪就這麼容易的這個逃跑"},{"start":453.17,"end":455.4,"text":"那個我請教那個我們的次長次長是"},{"start":458.292,"end":476.402,"text":"過去重大的選舉 我們都有選舉專案不管是 很多 主要是全國性的選舉 即便是縣市長選 九合一選也是一樣那我們這次的這個罷免 事實上也是全國性的雖然不是每一個縣市所以過去我們對於選舉專案 當然有幾個重點查會選 查賭盤 查造謠 對不對"},{"start":483.766,"end":506.369,"text":"可是我覺得到目前為止我沒有看到耶而且呢我們現在很多的造謠幾乎是漫天蓋地而且是無邊際的甚至我們很多的政府高官都加入造謠的行列以來助長這個罷免好那我要問的是請問一下現在以你們所掌握的"},{"start":507.169,"end":515.957,"text":"現在在罷免已經沒有地下賭盤了有嗎這個涉及到具體個案的情節各地檢署他都去掌握了他不會報到我們法務部"},{"start":519.138,"end":541.427,"text":"我沒有問任何個案我說有關於罷免的部分有沒有出現地下賭盤了你有沒有掌握各地檢署他一定會去掌握不是我法務部來掌握各地檢署他本來就我希望你們做我不是現在沒有在問你任何個案我王輝被罷免吳思堯委員也被罷免我沒有問你吳思堯有沒有地下賭盤王輝有沒有地下賭盤我只是問你"},{"start":542.527,"end":550.592,"text":"在這次罷免裡面有沒有出現地下賭盤來助長或者試圖去影響選舉我在這邊做具體的要求因為過去我們的重大選舉都會有這個專案我剛剛講嘛查會查地下賭盤還有查造謠好 再來看現在的罷團的造謠我為什麼講已經到無法無天的狀態我自己個人這幾天啊"},{"start":571.224,"end":578.647,"text":"我也不想去新送 我也不想去說一直佔用司法資源但是呢 這個造謠已經到了極度的過分的狀態比如說假冒我的一個社群平台 假冒我的身份來發文說我就是 我是中國人 然後呢 我故意要搞亂台灣反正沒關係 把台灣搞爛了 我就可以去中國了"},{"start":596.294,"end":610.647,"text":"這個造謠這個假冒從今年初我就已經去提告然後我也澄清結果立刻這兩天再拿其他的造號繼續的來做無所謂所以現在的造謠是怎麼樣我過去我的選舉經驗算多的吧"},{"start":619.615,"end":642.149,"text":"我們過去也沒有到這樣的一個腐爛性的而且已經被澄清的 已經被那個什麼甚至已經被提告 繼續拿來 無所謂來 再來最近又跑出來說 我到市場說人家不跟我握手 我罵人家無恥我作為一個這麼久的政治人物 請問在市場 我怎麼會去"},{"start":645.13,"end":662.826,"text":"罵人家說你不跟我握手我就罵你無恥市場這麼多人啊不會引起群星激開嗎所以這樣子的文不但自己在那邊發文自己製造然後還有直接我這邊直接點名自由時報記者在凌晨深夜一點多來發這個"},{"start":666.273,"end":687.645,"text":"來發這個完全這個沒有任何事實根據 也未經查證的請問一下我王蕙薇是美國股市嗎現在可能要凌晨發文的就是川普白宮有什麼發布關稅有什麼發布 昨天最新的訊息或者美國股市怎麼樣已經到這種造謠無極限了 好再來"},{"start":689.97,"end":716.526,"text":"來 下一頁 那你以為只有王宏威碰到嗎其實還有非常非常多的 造謠的團體 比如說我們過去的葉元芝這個委員 說他服務處沒有開門這樣的 完全沒有界限的 在無法無天的造謠所以我要講的是 罷免其實形同我們的一個重大的選舉"},{"start":718.843,"end":738.434,"text":"選舉罷免 選舉罷免 互相的嘛我承認我們現在罷免有很多的一些相關的 它的法令是不足的比如說有關於政治獻金的部分甚至它的起跑日 到現在為止因為我們都第一次罷免 我們都不是非常清楚但是 既然我們都進入了二階其實就已經進入"},{"start":743.165,"end":771.505,"text":"選舉的狀況了所以我剛才講這麼多的這些造謠跟罷免所以我希望我們相關單位好 警政署為什麼也請那個警政署是對不起啊副局長是副局長副局長所以我在這邊要求的是我們選舉罷免應該要有一致性的一個標準它不應該有兩套標準"},{"start":772.29,"end":794.159,"text":"如果在選舉的時候不可以做的事情同樣罷免的時候也應該不可以做同不同意我沒有讓你用兩套標準是不是但是我知道因為我們這樣大規模罷免是我們真的是台灣第一次面臨到它幾乎已經是全國性的所以我在這邊要求我們"},{"start":795.439,"end":803.933,"text":"法務部要求我們警政署針對罷免的部分我剛說過去的選舉專案你們有加強查查我剛講說查會會選有沒有地下賭盤"},{"start":811.621,"end":835.091,"text":"這個賭博嘛 而且試圖影響選舉的結果 過去的地下賭盤其實它某一個程度都是在試圖影響選舉結果好 還有這些造謠 試圖 我們說試圖使人不當選這個是試圖使人罷免而且完全 我剛剛舉的例子 都是完全無中生有的而這些都沒有辦法處理的話 請問我們算什麼民主國家嘛"},{"start":836.087,"end":849.725,"text":"我們算民主國家嗎所以拜託我們法務部還有我們警政署針對這一次的全國性罷免請大家用這個選舉的這樣的標準來做查查好不好可以嗎 市長可以嗎"},{"start":852.2,"end":878.192,"text":"首先跟委員報告啦在法律面我們就選舉跟罷免在我們選報法他是做同樣的同等的規範所以剛剛委員所提到的散佈謠言不時來影響罷免案的通過跟不通過跟我們選舉是一模一樣的刑罰處罰並沒有差別的待遇這法律面跟委員報告那執行面的部分當然這是檢警的天職那假如說在查查賄選或罷免案都會盡全力的來執行好的謝謝"},{"start":881.547,"end":886.457,"text":"好 謝謝好 那下一位我們請吳思瑤委員發言"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":535,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（10時6分）謝謝主席，我請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長。"],["主席：請副秘書長。部長10點去開會，所以……"],["王委員鴻薇：部長不在喔？"],["主席：請次長。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，那就是次長。還有警政署副局長。"],["主席：副局長。"],["黃次長謀信：委員早。"],["王副秘書長梅英：委員早。"],["王委員鴻薇：大家早安！今天我們談的是鍾文智潛逃案，這個案子引起社會極大的震撼，大家認為在臺灣犯重罪怎麼可以這麼輕易的逃跑，但是問題是只有鍾文智這一件案子嗎？過去這一年多來，我們可以看到在各個重大特別是屬於經濟性犯罪的要逃跑很容易耶！非常容易！尤其是經濟性的犯罪，而且我後來發現，洗錢洗得越多，經濟犯罪金額越大，然後逃跑越容易，你看包含臺鹽董事長陳啟昱，他也一樣潛逃，而且他在國內耶，看起來應該是在國內，可是到目前為止，從來都沒有交代，他逃亡了大概一個多月，他到底在哪裡，有哪些人幫助他潛逃，到現在對於社會沒有任何交代，他不是跑到泰國，不是跑到大陸，也不是跑到其他東南亞國家，他在臺灣，有交代嗎？沒有交代。再來，過去八八會館的郭哲敏，當然他後來是從泰國引渡回來，也是一樣啊，一億元交保，看起來一億元好像很高，對不對？對不起，對這些經濟犯罪的人根本不算什麼，他照樣潛逃出境。再來，朱國榮一樣是如此啊，棄保潛逃，然後我們起訴了這些相關的人，但是人還是跑出去了，是不是？朱國榮也是眾所矚目的經濟性犯罪的案子。再來，百億賭王林秉文跑到洛杉磯，我們還懸賞他，結果這林秉文不但跑掉而且極為囂張，還在他的臉書嗆立法委員徐巧芯委員，舉國譁然，怎麼會有這麼囂張的罪犯？後來他只好關閉臉書。其實他嗆的不是立法委員，他嗆的是我們的政府，他嗆的是我們的司法，司法尊嚴掃地。所以我請問一下幾位長官，我剛才講的鍾文智、陳啟昱、郭哲敏、朱國榮、林秉文，都是在短短一、兩年發生的事情，它不是十年前發生的事，所以請問一下，我們的院檢、我們的警方到底出了什麼問題？誰可以回答我？次長，這麼多的案子，我知道鍾文智案，當然責任在院方，這個是很明確的，你們也做了處置，可是這麼多案子，你們給社會什麼樣的交代呢？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，這涉及到法律面跟實務執行面的問題，在法律面的部分，的確除了羈押制度之外，其他的替代處分我們必須要強化，譬如說我們今天的主題，羈押的替代處分是以電子監控，然而法律面我們具備之後，實務執行面上，檢察官、法官必須要多多使用這些羈押替代處分，所以我們把科技設備、科技相關措施優化之後，讓檢察官、法官願意使用，它是一個避免被告逃亡的科技輔助方式。"],["王委員鴻薇：次長，請問一下，我剛才講的這些，當時我們有沒有用電子監控？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，像陳啟昱的個案，檢察官在聲請後，院方是沒有核准科技監控；相關朱國榮的個案……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以我的意思是，今天我們要檢討的，就是我們電子監控這個制度是在的，工具也都在，只是不管是檢方或不管院方要不要使用，即便使用的時候，什麼時候給他解除、解除的程序出現什麼樣的問題等等，今天我們要討論的是這一個部分。可是我要說的是，對一般的小老百姓，老實講，有時候我看到的，我就認為那就是政府啊！怎麼會讓經濟犯罪者那麼容易逃跑呢？我認為那就司法單位啊！"],["黃次長謀信：所以這方面我們已經發函通令全國的檢察官，在符合羈押的要件之下，當然要聲請羈押，當法院不支持的時候，我們要依法來提起抗告，相關的替代處分我們在偵查中、在審理中都要積極地主張。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，未來如果院方不願意採取電子監控，或者在中間的過程裡面突然地解除了電子監控，檢方一定會有正面、積極的動作，是嗎？"],["黃次長謀信：當然，我們剛剛已經跟委員報告，在審理中，我們已經要求檢察官在符合特定的狀況之下，要積極地主張電子監控；如果他要撤銷或者變更，俟裁定送給我們後，如果符合條件的話，我們就要積極地提起抗告。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，請司法院副秘書長，可以說明一下嗎？"],["王副秘書長梅英：是否裁定羈押，或者是使用羈押替代處分，這個部分確實是涉及法官審判的職權，當然法官做了這樣裁定之後，就要接受社會公評，而我們司法行政端其實這幾年來也一直在加強，就是透過各種會議加強法官的培力，包括對於這類案件的敏感度。還有，畢竟在符合所謂犯罪嫌疑重大或者是已經判了重罪之後，最有效的方式，就是不讓人跑走、保全那個執行或是保全審判，真的最有效的方式就是羈押；再來是它的替代處分，確實使用這種科控是有效的，所以這幾年我們也都鼓勵法官去看看整個科控設備，還有參加相關的研習，讓他們了解這些實際上是怎麼運作的，這幾年……"],["王委員鴻薇：副秘書長，我跟你講，這一次真的讓大家對於我們的司法、對於我們的法院大失所望，所以我希望，包含院檢之間怎麼樣來合作，我剛才講的這麼多例子，有些問題事實上是在檢方也不是在院方，只是對我們一般民眾來講，就是會覺得為什麼這樣重大的經濟犯罪可以這麼容易的逃跑。","接著請教次長，過去重大的選舉，我們都有選舉專案，只要是全國性的選舉，即便是縣市長選舉、九合一選舉也一樣，而這次的罷免事實上也是全國性的，雖然不是每一個縣市都有，過去我們對於選舉專案當然有幾個重點，包括查賄選、查賭盤、查造謠，對不對？可是我覺得到目前為止，我都沒有看到欸！現在很多的造謠，幾乎是漫天蓋地而且是無邊際的，甚至很多政府高官都加入造謠的行列以助長罷免。我要問的是，就你們現在所掌握的，現在的罷免有沒有地下賭盤呢？有嗎？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，這個涉及到具體個案的情資，各地檢署都有掌握了，並不會報到我們法務部來。"],["王委員鴻薇：我知道，我沒有問任何個案，我是說有關於罷免的部分，有沒有出現地下賭盤了？你有沒有掌握？"],["黃次長謀信：各地檢署一定會去掌握，不是我法務部來掌握的，地檢署本來就……"],["王委員鴻薇：我現在沒有問你任何個案，像我王鴻薇被罷免，吳思瑤委員也被罷免，但我沒有問你吳思瑤的罷免有沒有地下賭盤？王鴻薇的罷免有沒有地下賭盤？我只是問你，在這次罷免裡面有沒有出現地下賭盤，以助長或者試圖去影響選舉？我在這邊做具體的要求，因為過去我們的重大選舉都會有這個專案，我剛剛有講，查賄、查地下賭盤還有查造謠。","再來看現在罷團的造謠，我為什麼講這個，因為已經到無法無天的狀態，我自己個人這幾天下來，我也不想去興訟，我也不想一直占用司法資源，但是這個造謠已經到了極度過分的狀態，比如說，一個社群平臺假冒我的身分來發文，表示我是中國人，然後我故意要搞亂臺灣，反正沒關係，把臺灣搞爛了，我就可以去中國了。這個造謠、這個假冒，從今年初我就已經提告，然後我也澄清，結果這兩天立刻再拿其他的帳號繼續來做，無所謂！所以現在的造謠是怎麼樣呢？我過去的選舉經驗算多的吧！但過去也都沒有碰到像這樣浮濫性的，而且已經被澄清，甚至已經被提告了，卻繼續拿來造謠，無所謂！","再來，他們最近又跑出來說，我到市場時人家不跟我握手，我罵人家無恥。我作為一個政治人物這麼久了，請問在市場我怎麼會說人家不跟我握手，我就罵人家無恥？市場這麼多人，不會引起群情激慨嗎？這樣子的發文，不但自己在那邊發文、自己製造，然後我在這邊直接點名自由時報記者，在凌晨、深夜一點多來發這個完全沒有任何事實根據，也未經查證的文。請問一下，我王鴻薇是美國股市嗎？現在要凌晨發文的，就是川普、白宮有什麼發布；關稅政策有什麼發布；昨天最新的訊息；或者美國股市怎麼樣，都已經到這種造謠無極限了。","好，你以為只有王鴻薇碰到嗎？其實還有非常非常多的造謠團體，比如，過去說葉元之委員服務處沒有開門，這樣完全沒有界限的在無法無天的造謠，所以我要講的是，罷免其實形同一個重大的選舉，選舉、罷免是互相的，我承認我們現在罷免很多相關的法令是不足的，比如說有關於政治獻金的部分，甚至它的起跑日到現在為止，因為我們都是第一次罷免，都不是非常清楚，但是既然我們都進入了二階，其實就已經進入選舉的狀態，所以我剛才講的，這麼多的造謠跟罷免，我希望相關單位，包括警政署，稍後我會請警政署副局長說明。總之，我在這邊要求的是，我們的選舉、罷免應該要有一致性的標準，不應該有兩套標準，如果在選舉的時候不可以做的事情，同樣在罷免的時候，也應該不可以做，同不同意？"],["林副局長故廷：同意。"],["王委員鴻薇：我沒有讓你用兩套標準，是不是？但是我知道，因為我們這樣大規模的罷免，臺灣真的是第一次面臨到，它幾乎已經是全國性的，所以我在這邊要求法務部、要求警政署，針對罷免的部分，我剛剛說過去的選舉專案，你們有加強查察賄選有沒有地下賭盤、賭博，而且試圖影響選舉的結果，過去地下賭盤其實某個程度都是在試圖影響選舉結果。還有這些造謠，我們過去是說試圖使人不當選，這個是試圖使人罷免，而且我剛剛舉的例子是完全無中生有的，這些都沒有辦法處理的話，請問我們算什麼民主國家？我們算民主國家嗎？所以拜託法務部和警政署，針對這一次全國性罷免，請大家用選舉的標準來查察，好不好？次長，可以嗎？"],["黃次長謀信：首先跟委員報告，在法律面，選舉跟罷免在選罷法是做同等的規範，所以剛剛委員所提到的以散布謠言或不實之事來影響罷免案的通過跟不通過，其實跟選舉是一模一樣的刑罰、處罰，並沒有差別待遇，這是法律面。執行面的部分，當然這是檢警的天職，檢察官在查察賄選或罷免案時，都會盡全力的來執行。"],["王委員鴻薇：好的，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","下一位請吳思瑤委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":112,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-8","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","陳培瑜","林倩綺","王義川","王鴻薇","吳思瑤","翁曉玲","張啓楷","林月琴","莊瑞雄","羅智強","沈發惠"],"page_start":51,"meetingDate":["2025-04-10"],"gazette_id":"1143702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143702_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部矯正署、內政部警政署、內政部移民署、海洋委員會\n海巡署率所屬相關單位列席就「法院作成『略式裁定』之依據、理由、法定程序、救濟方式，與\n科技設備監控處分變更、延長或撤銷之標準，並就執行現況，提供相關統計數據與策進作為」進\n行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143702_00002"}}}