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00:00:47,112\n去跟他書城去跟他談判所以談判大概也沒有辦法談什麼大概他的主導性還是非常強就這一點我們的談判小組已經出發了嗎\n\n4\n00:00:58,487 --> 00:01:20,032\n這個我們在跟美國的所有的溝通感到暢通無阻具體的這個施程我們這個還是基於雙方的誠信原則我們想是說還是有一定程度上也不便揭露的地方我們已經就像我們部長之前回覆委員的話一樣就是說我們的已經掛上好了\n\n5\n00:01:20,632 --> 00:01:29,835\n好那麼我們隨時Ready可以去跟他進行這個相關的談判在等美方的時間通知時間我們會主動我們會很主動的來進行相關的這個準備那麼也隨時準備可以進行他有對象嘛我們\n\n6\n00:01:38,057 --> 00:02:00,649\n對象就好像我們OTM所說的一樣包括美國財政部美國的商業部美國的USTR這都是我們主要的對口單位我們現在看到談判小組雖然其實我們涵蓋了國安體系、外交體系、經貿談判辦公室還有其他的業界、學界我們好像都有納入\n\n7\n00:02:02,531 --> 00:02:11,345\n當然他談判的這個本質上面我們有政府體系那代表的人物當然吳釗燮秘書長他已經出發了嘛這我不便透露\n\n8\n00:02:17,769 --> 00:02:23,894\n這個好像大家都知道啊現在是因為你該做的就算這個有什麼好不便透露的你如果可以做吳釗燮身為過去是外交部長他現在是國安會的秘書長你不用特別說他跟誰見面可是你本來就要因應那出去就出去了這有什麼好不便透露的我現在看到的是因為去年8月\n\n9\n00:02:42,387 --> 00:02:46,151\n吳釗燮秘書長他是跟林佳龍部長一起出去訪美他也是用比較特殊的管道那現在他已經出發可是這一次我們林佳龍部長是沒有出去的那對我們因為包括我們在美方給我們的\n\n10\n00:03:02,667 --> 00:03:07,229\n訊息我相信他報給就是我們的駐美的代表處其實當時是給什麼樣的資訊可以讓賴總統他說讓大家放心然後我們的卓院長讓大家安心入睡甚至民進黨的總召他都可以大剌剌的說我們大概只會10%的關稅\n\n11\n00:03:25,675 --> 00:03:51,294\n完全讓大家隔天一覺醒來都靜呆了所以其實我們說有史以來關係最好或者我們有掌握什麼樣的狀況顯然不是那你現在如果說像這樣的狀況之下我們要去談判已經有建議像張忠謀可以納入我們的談判的一個小組裡面有沒有可能有沒有考量\n\n12\n00:03:52,279 --> 00:04:00,883\n委員的意見我們都是會向內傳達當然最後變成談判的決定我們外交部是負責收集相關的資訊提出相關的好的建議剛才委員指導的相關的東西第一個我們每處都有充分掌握相關的資訊我們的資訊是完全錯誤的所以不要再拿出來談這個部分\n\n13\n00:04:19,332 --> 00:04:22,235\n你出來的資訊是跟大家天然地別差的太多所以我們現在講的是為了我們台灣整體的利益尤其這個關稅對我們打擊非常的大台灣的經濟高度依賴外貿我們在2023年其實我們貿易額是GDP的99%\n\n14\n00:04:38,130 --> 00:04:50,218\n我相信這個在座的各位都非常的清楚所以這個談判小組其實是非常重要的因為我們不希望說你到時候我們的談判小組去只是去聽然後去全盤的接收你一點談判的能力都沒有的情況之下我們現在很多國人會擔心因為以川普的個性他甚至像越南他直接去了最早他表達要零關稅\n\n15\n00:05:06,148 --> 00:05:16,133\n他根本覺得遠遠不足而且非常不屑所以對於我們來說我們今天談判的代表也非常的重要因為他攸關我們未來不管整體的經濟貿易或者我們未來的產業發展他都有很大的影響那既然我們在APEC的時候其實都可以請張忠謀去參加那如果這個談判對於我們來說因為第一對業界最了解的對產業界最了解的\n\n16\n00:05:34,822 --> 00:05:46,010\n對整個我們半導體或者其他國家整個全球的脈動很了解的非他莫屬所以其實他是一個很好的人才當然也有人建議蔡英文前總統那可是他的身份不曉得適不適合那不知道可是我們還是希望台灣可以派出最強而有力的一個談判的代表來爭取我們這一個困境的解決好不好\n\n17\n00:06:00,439 --> 00:06:20,627\n是,剛才委員的這個建議我們一定傳達給決策者。第二個是說,也請委員放心,就是說在關於談判上面來說的話,其實我想針對這個撤補的關稅,大概就是說我們要做好所有的功課,然後要做好所有的萬全的準備,各種的可能性。\n\n18\n00:06:21,387 --> 00:06:47,180\n就外交部的立場來說,我們所有的訊息都有透過各種的管道來掌握那不可否認的,因為川普總統他的談判的風格那麼很多的時候我們掌握,但是說他還是像昨天的突然宣布90天暫緩實施的時候其實很多時候可能連他的格言都不一定能夠完全掌握\n\n19\n00:06:47,720 --> 00:07:03,567\n那麼所以是說這個談判上面一定會有一定的彈性但是做好功課雖然川普總統他的決策因為他事先都已經預告了他昨天這個90天其實可能是比較很多人是比較意外的可是他在關稅要課徵重稅這個不是後來才講\n\n20\n00:07:07,228 --> 00:07:26,261\n可是我們掌握的訊息顯然是不對的所以我想沒有什麼任何理由在這裡提說我們有什麼準備而且有做功課如果有做功課而且甚至知道說他可能會對我們課這麼重的稅因為我們台積電都已經送去了他還對我們至少中國2%\n\n21\n00:07:28,422 --> 00:07:30,123\n我們遠遠比日本、韓國我們其他有競爭力的國家我們都比他高得多所以我們未來談判你還要再送出什麼我們已經送了台積電你又要買武器然後又要零關稅然後對於他的所有的\n\n22\n00:07:44,491 --> 00:07:47,412\n採購還要大力的加碼我們還能給什麼所以如果回來還是告訴我們就是這些那我覺得那還不如不要談判所以在這裡我們還是很慎重的去提醒因為今天這幾天我相信所有的部會包括經濟部現在也在然後還有其他的部會其實他牽動非常廣泛所以在這裡我們還是要提醒尤其算\n\n23\n00:08:11,102 --> 00:08:20,645\n外交部長不在不過我們還是希望這個部分外交部還是要掌握最大的一個能量因為其實你們應該跟美方的脈動不然你告訴國人一直以來告訴國人說我們是台美有史以來關係最好的我們都看不出好在哪裡我們吃了美豬然後我們現在他甚至可能還要求我們的標示不可以有明顯的標示那當時對我們全國人民所講的話那個\n\n24\n00:08:40,931 --> 00:08:51,062\n你現在智利進來的櫻桃或者其他的日本的蘋果他都很清楚的標示是哪裡來的產地啊就像我們國內要求我們的農民要履歷產地是一樣的啊那為什麼美國如果他要求我們這樣我們會妥協嗎那我覺得我們都會全力跟美國溝通經濟部講一下這個部分會不會妥協\n\n25\n00:09:04,462 --> 00:09:10,767\n因為這個是涉及的談判的策略所以我們一定會站在台灣產業的立場如果你今天在這裡沒有辦法對我們國家或者我們所有人民或者我們食品的安全你過去對人民的承諾你現在去談判你就要強力的要求因為這是為人民把關你今天其他的產品人家都沒有問題的他都可以標示啊\n\n26\n00:09:28,582 --> 00:09:38,926\n智利啊澳洲啊紐西蘭的起義股啊什麼大家都標示得非常清楚如果你這個沒有讓人家有疑慮你幹嘛擔心人家標示那如果應該要標示對哪一個國家都一樣所以這個部分我們在這裡提出特別的要求我們應該要把關的應該要堅持的我們希望談判小組一定要堅持到底可不可以做到我們一定會去盡我們的盡全力去積極的爭取產業的利益\n\n27\n00:09:56,974 --> 00:10:01,157\n那另外我們在這裡已經提醒了另外賴總統針對這個美國關稅政策他有提出五大因應的策略那剛剛我們提到很多可是其中有一個他就是拖中入北這是好像早上有特別提出來的一個方向所以拖中入北當然就是希望重心不要放在中國大陸的這些投資那希望可以入北你們的看法怎麼樣\n\n28\n00:10:27,615 --> 00:10:50,929\n脫中入北的它的這個過程其實是很正面的也就是說台灣可以用自己的經濟實力來透過這個這個立足台灣同時呢要佈局全世界那我們經濟部的話會協助廠商來做全球的佈局例如呢像這些我想請教一下因為剛剛你在業務報告的時候有大概念了一下可是當時在2019年\n\n29\n00:10:55,112 --> 00:11:09,125\n中美貿易大戰的時候那時候政府也希望因為免於受到很大的衝擊所以台商自己本身也很清楚所以都從中國把它往外移那時候其實政府推的是新南向那現在新南向呢不適合了\n\n30\n00:11:12,087 --> 00:11:14,969\n你現在又要脫中入北那你過去的新南向呢新南向有什麼問題嗎好不容易供應鏈才漸漸的落實完成那個不像我們一般要搬家他那個廠房投資各方面還有人力的培訓他在一個地方如果可以安定下來\n\n31\n00:11:31,698 --> 00:11:36,821\n過了六年現在好不容易慢慢達成這樣你現在又有一個新的說要入北而且你入北的國家通常都是不管在人工的成本各方面的投資成本上面都是比較高的以台灣的實力或者經濟部更沒有條件去說你們政府可以給這些廠商做什麼因為我覺得你在政策上面你沒有辦法延續你必須告訴大家新南向為什麼不行了\n\n32\n00:11:59,894 --> 00:12:17,009\n報告委員其實除了我們台商除了去新南向國家之外,有部分有回台灣,甚至也有我們的電子產業聚落,現在也有到墨西哥。那經濟部在去年,在今年在歐洲也設立了這個投資服務中心。\n\n33\n00:12:17,549 --> 00:12:20,612\n因為我們認為我們要的不是投資服務中心我們要的是你政府的政策要有一貫性你過去在新南向這一個部分我現在要知道的是新南向有沒有發生什麼樣的問題因為大家已經都投資在那裡了剛剛說的墨西哥當然墨西哥以現在美國的關稅部的那種\n\n34\n00:12:37,009 --> 00:12:41,732\n的政策來說他可能算是比較好一點的可是他隨時在變動而且川普他現在掌理美國他隨時都在改變我剛剛提到的如果我們去投資像剛剛講到的托中入北這些北方的民主國家我們號稱的民主國家他的投資成本是很高的這對於我們整個產業是不是有利我希望可以有一個具體的數據資料再提供給本席還有我們委員好不好\n\n35\n00:13:06,850 --> 00:13:06,870\n好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n109\t5273\t麻煩請外交部現在是次長請陳次長還有經濟部\n17467\t24232\t你好謝謝次長今天我們主要大概是針對我們關稅的這個部分來做一個專報那美國總統川普他在宣布對等關稅的這個政策的時候其實搞得全世界人仰馬翻雖然現在暫時有90天的緩衝期不過川普大概也等著世界各國\n43425\t47112\t去跟他書城去跟他談判所以談判大概也沒有辦法談什麼大概他的主導性還是非常強就這一點我們的談判小組已經出發了嗎\n58487\t80032\t這個我們在跟美國的所有的溝通感到暢通無阻具體的這個施程我們這個還是基於雙方的誠信原則我們想是說還是有一定程度上也不便揭露的地方我們已經就像我們部長之前回覆委員的話一樣就是說我們的已經掛上好了\n80632\t89835\t好 那麼我們隨時Ready可以去跟他進行這個相關的談判在等美方的時間 通知時間我們會主動 我們會很主動的來進行相關的這個準備那麼也隨時準備可以進行他有對象嘛 我們\n98057\t120649\t對象就好像我們OTM所說的一樣包括美國財政部美國的商業部美國的USTR這都是我們主要的對口單位我們現在看到談判小組雖然其實我們涵蓋了國安體系、外交體系、經貿談判辦公室還有其他的業界、學界我們好像都有納入\n122531\t131345\t當然他談判的這個本質上面我們有政府體系那代表的人物當然吳釗燮秘書長他已經出發了嘛這我不便透露\n137769\t143894\t這個好像大家都知道啊現在是因為你該做的就算這個有什麼好不便透露的你如果可以做吳釗燮身為過去是外交部長他現在是國安會的秘書長你不用特別說他跟誰見面可是你本來就要因應那出去就出去了這有什麼好不便透露的我現在看到的是因為去年8月\n162387\t166151\t吳釗燮秘書長他是跟林佳龍部長一起出去訪美他也是用比較特殊的管道那現在他已經出發可是這一次我們林佳龍部長是沒有出去的那對我們因為包括我們在美方給我們的\n182667\t187229\t訊息我相信他報給就是我們的駐美的代表處其實當時是給什麼樣的資訊可以讓賴總統他說讓大家放心然後我們的卓院長讓大家安心入睡甚至民進黨的總召他都可以大剌剌的說我們大概只會10%的關稅\n205675\t231294\t完全讓大家隔天一覺醒來都靜呆了所以其實我們說有史以來關係最好或者我們有掌握什麼樣的狀況顯然不是那你現在如果說像這樣的狀況之下我們要去談判已經有建議像張忠謀可以納入我們的談判的一個小組裡面有沒有可能有沒有考量\n232279\t240883\t委員的意見我們都是會向內傳達當然最後變成談判的決定我們外交部是負責收集相關的資訊提出相關的好的建議剛才委員指導的相關的東西第一個我們每處都有充分掌握相關的資訊我們的資訊是完全錯誤的所以不要再拿出來談這個部分\n259332\t262235\t你出來的資訊是跟大家天然地別差的太多所以我們現在講的是為了我們台灣整體的利益尤其這個關稅對我們打擊非常的大台灣的經濟高度依賴外貿我們在2023年其實我們貿易額是GDP的99%\n278130\t290218\t我相信這個在座的各位都非常的清楚所以這個談判小組其實是非常重要的因為我們不希望說你到時候我們的談判小組去只是去聽然後去全盤的接收你一點談判的能力都沒有的情況之下我們現在很多國人會擔心因為以川普的個性他甚至像越南他直接去了最早他表達要零關稅\n306148\t316133\t他根本覺得遠遠不足而且非常不屑所以對於我們來說我們今天談判的代表也非常的重要因為他攸關我們未來不管整體的經濟貿易或者我們未來的產業發展他都有很大的影響那既然我們在APEC的時候其實都可以請張忠謀去參加那如果這個談判對於我們來說因為第一對業界最了解的對產業界最了解的\n334822\t346010\t對整個我們半導體或者其他國家整個全球的脈動很了解的非他莫屬所以其實他是一個很好的人才當然也有人建議蔡英文前總統那可是他的身份不曉得適不適合那不知道可是我們還是希望台灣可以派出最強而有力的一個談判的代表來爭取我們這一個困境的解決好不好\n360439\t380627\t是,剛才委員的這個建議我們一定傳達給決策者。第二個是說,也請委員放心,就是說在關於談判上面來說的話,其實我想針對這個撤補的關稅,大概就是說我們要做好所有的功課,然後要做好所有的萬全的準備,各種的可能性。\n381387\t407180\t就外交部的立場來說,我們所有的訊息都有透過各種的管道來掌握那不可否認的,因為川普總統他的談判的風格那麼很多的時候我們掌握,但是說他還是像昨天的突然宣布90天暫緩實施的時候其實很多時候可能連他的格言都不一定能夠完全掌握\n407720\t423567\t那麼所以是說這個談判上面一定會有一定的彈性但是做好功課雖然川普總統他的決策因為他事先都已經預告了他昨天這個90天其實可能是比較很多人是比較意外的可是他在關稅要課徵重稅這個不是後來才講\n427228\t446261\t可是我們掌握的訊息顯然是不對的所以我想沒有什麼任何理由在這裡提說我們有什麼準備而且有做功課如果有做功課而且甚至知道說他可能會對我們課這麼重的稅因為我們台積電都已經送去了他還對我們至少中國2%\n448422\t450123\t我們遠遠比日本、韓國我們其他有競爭力的國家我們都比他高得多所以我們未來談判你還要再送出什麼我們已經送了台積電你又要買武器然後又要零關稅然後對於他的所有的\n464491\t467412\t採購還要大力的加碼我們還能給什麼所以如果回來還是告訴我們就是這些那我覺得那還不如不要談判所以在這裡我們還是很慎重的去提醒因為今天這幾天我相信所有的部會包括經濟部現在也在然後還有其他的部會其實他牽動非常廣泛所以在這裡我們還是要提醒尤其算\n491102\t500645\t外交部長不在不過我們還是希望這個部分外交部還是要掌握最大的一個能量因為其實你們應該跟美方的脈動不然你告訴國人一直以來告訴國人說我們是台美有史以來關係最好的我們都看不出好在哪裡我們吃了美豬然後我們現在他甚至可能還要求我們的標示不可以有明顯的標示那當時對我們全國人民所講的話那個\n520931\t531062\t你現在智利進來的櫻桃或者其他的日本的蘋果他都很清楚的標示是哪裡來的產地啊就像我們國內要求我們的農民要履歷產地是一樣的啊那為什麼美國如果他要求我們這樣我們會妥協嗎那我覺得我們都會全力跟美國溝通經濟部講一下這個部分會不會妥協\n544462\t550767\t因為這個是涉及的談判的策略所以我們一定會站在台灣產業的立場如果你今天在這裡沒有辦法對我們國家或者我們所有人民或者我們食品的安全你過去對人民的承諾你現在去談判你就要強力的要求因為這是為人民把關你今天其他的產品人家都沒有問題的他都可以標示啊\n568582\t578926\t智利啊 澳洲啊 紐西蘭的起義股啊什麼大家都標示得非常清楚如果你這個沒有讓人家有疑慮你幹嘛擔心人家標示那如果應該要標示對哪一個國家都一樣所以這個部分我們在這裡提出特別的要求我們應該要把關的 應該要堅持的我們希望談判小組一定要堅持到底可不可以做到我們一定會去盡我們的盡全力去積極的爭取產業的利益\n596974\t601157\t那另外我們在這裡已經提醒了另外賴總統針對這個美國關稅政策他有提出五大因應的策略那剛剛我們提到很多可是其中有一個他就是拖中入北這是好像早上有特別提出來的一個方向所以拖中入北當然就是希望重心不要放在中國大陸的這些投資那希望可以入北你們的看法怎麼樣\n627615\t650929\t脫中入北的它的這個過程其實是很正面的也就是說台灣可以用自己的經濟實力來透過這個這個立足台灣同時呢要佈局全世界那我們經濟部的話會協助廠商來做全球的佈局例如呢像這些我想請教一下因為剛剛你在業務報告的時候有大概念了一下可是當時在2019年\n655112\t669125\t中美貿易大戰的時候那時候政府也希望因為免於受到很大的衝擊所以台商自己本身也很清楚所以都從中國把它往外移那時候其實政府推的是新南向那現在新南向呢不適合了\n672087\t674969\t你現在又要脫中入北那你過去的新南向呢新南向有什麼問題嗎好不容易供應鏈才漸漸的落實完成那個不像我們一般要搬家他那個廠房投資各方面還有人力的培訓他在一個地方如果可以安定下來\n691698\t696821\t過了六年現在好不容易慢慢達成這樣你現在又有一個新的說要入北而且你入北的國家通常都是不管在人工的成本各方面的投資成本上面都是比較高的以台灣的實力或者經濟部更沒有條件去說你們政府可以給這些廠商做什麼因為我覺得你在政策上面你沒有辦法延續你必須告訴大家新南向為什麼不行了\n719894\t737009\t報告委員其實除了我們台商除了去新南向國家之外,有部分有回台灣,甚至也有我們的電子產業聚落,現在也有到墨西哥。那經濟部在去年,在今年在歐洲也設立了這個投資服務中心。\n737549\t740612\t因為我們認為我們要的不是投資服務中心我們要的是你政府的政策要有一貫性你過去在新南向這一個部分我現在要知道的是新南向有沒有發生什麼樣的問題因為大家已經都投資在那裡了剛剛說的墨西哥當然墨西哥以現在美國的關稅部的那種\n757009\t761732\t的政策來說他可能算是比較好一點的可是他隨時在變動而且川普他現在掌理美國他隨時都在改變我剛剛提到的如果我們去投資像剛剛講到的托中入北這些北方的民主國家我們號稱的民主國家他的投資成本是很高的這對於我們整個產業是不是有利我希望可以有一個具體的數據資料再提供給本席還有我們委員好不好\n786850\t786870\t好 謝謝\n","txt":"麻煩請外交部現在是次長請陳次長還有經濟部\n你好謝謝次長今天我們主要大概是針對我們關稅的這個部分來做一個專報那美國總統川普他在宣布對等關稅的這個政策的時候其實搞得全世界人仰馬翻雖然現在暫時有90天的緩衝期不過川普大概也等著世界各國\n去跟他書城去跟他談判所以談判大概也沒有辦法談什麼大概他的主導性還是非常強就這一點我們的談判小組已經出發了嗎\n這個我們在跟美國的所有的溝通感到暢通無阻具體的這個施程我們這個還是基於雙方的誠信原則我們想是說還是有一定程度上也不便揭露的地方我們已經就像我們部長之前回覆委員的話一樣就是說我們的已經掛上好了\n好 那麼我們隨時Ready可以去跟他進行這個相關的談判在等美方的時間 通知時間我們會主動 我們會很主動的來進行相關的這個準備那麼也隨時準備可以進行他有對象嘛 我們\n對象就好像我們OTM所說的一樣包括美國財政部美國的商業部美國的USTR這都是我們主要的對口單位我們現在看到談判小組雖然其實我們涵蓋了國安體系、外交體系、經貿談判辦公室還有其他的業界、學界我們好像都有納入\n當然他談判的這個本質上面我們有政府體系那代表的人物當然吳釗燮秘書長他已經出發了嘛這我不便透露\n這個好像大家都知道啊現在是因為你該做的就算這個有什麼好不便透露的你如果可以做吳釗燮身為過去是外交部長他現在是國安會的秘書長你不用特別說他跟誰見面可是你本來就要因應那出去就出去了這有什麼好不便透露的我現在看到的是因為去年8月\n吳釗燮秘書長他是跟林佳龍部長一起出去訪美他也是用比較特殊的管道那現在他已經出發可是這一次我們林佳龍部長是沒有出去的那對我們因為包括我們在美方給我們的\n訊息我相信他報給就是我們的駐美的代表處其實當時是給什麼樣的資訊可以讓賴總統他說讓大家放心然後我們的卓院長讓大家安心入睡甚至民進黨的總召他都可以大剌剌的說我們大概只會10%的關稅\n完全讓大家隔天一覺醒來都靜呆了所以其實我們說有史以來關係最好或者我們有掌握什麼樣的狀況顯然不是那你現在如果說像這樣的狀況之下我們要去談判已經有建議像張忠謀可以納入我們的談判的一個小組裡面有沒有可能有沒有考量\n委員的意見我們都是會向內傳達當然最後變成談判的決定我們外交部是負責收集相關的資訊提出相關的好的建議剛才委員指導的相關的東西第一個我們每處都有充分掌握相關的資訊我們的資訊是完全錯誤的所以不要再拿出來談這個部分\n你出來的資訊是跟大家天然地別差的太多所以我們現在講的是為了我們台灣整體的利益尤其這個關稅對我們打擊非常的大台灣的經濟高度依賴外貿我們在2023年其實我們貿易額是GDP的99%\n我相信這個在座的各位都非常的清楚所以這個談判小組其實是非常重要的因為我們不希望說你到時候我們的談判小組去只是去聽然後去全盤的接收你一點談判的能力都沒有的情況之下我們現在很多國人會擔心因為以川普的個性他甚至像越南他直接去了最早他表達要零關稅\n他根本覺得遠遠不足而且非常不屑所以對於我們來說我們今天談判的代表也非常的重要因為他攸關我們未來不管整體的經濟貿易或者我們未來的產業發展他都有很大的影響那既然我們在APEC的時候其實都可以請張忠謀去參加那如果這個談判對於我們來說因為第一對業界最了解的對產業界最了解的\n對整個我們半導體或者其他國家整個全球的脈動很了解的非他莫屬所以其實他是一個很好的人才當然也有人建議蔡英文前總統那可是他的身份不曉得適不適合那不知道可是我們還是希望台灣可以派出最強而有力的一個談判的代表來爭取我們這一個困境的解決好不好\n是,剛才委員的這個建議我們一定傳達給決策者。第二個是說,也請委員放心,就是說在關於談判上面來說的話,其實我想針對這個撤補的關稅,大概就是說我們要做好所有的功課,然後要做好所有的萬全的準備,各種的可能性。\n就外交部的立場來說,我們所有的訊息都有透過各種的管道來掌握那不可否認的,因為川普總統他的談判的風格那麼很多的時候我們掌握,但是說他還是像昨天的突然宣布90天暫緩實施的時候其實很多時候可能連他的格言都不一定能夠完全掌握\n那麼所以是說這個談判上面一定會有一定的彈性但是做好功課雖然川普總統他的決策因為他事先都已經預告了他昨天這個90天其實可能是比較很多人是比較意外的可是他在關稅要課徵重稅這個不是後來才講\n可是我們掌握的訊息顯然是不對的所以我想沒有什麼任何理由在這裡提說我們有什麼準備而且有做功課如果有做功課而且甚至知道說他可能會對我們課這麼重的稅因為我們台積電都已經送去了他還對我們至少中國2%\n我們遠遠比日本、韓國我們其他有競爭力的國家我們都比他高得多所以我們未來談判你還要再送出什麼我們已經送了台積電你又要買武器然後又要零關稅然後對於他的所有的\n採購還要大力的加碼我們還能給什麼所以如果回來還是告訴我們就是這些那我覺得那還不如不要談判所以在這裡我們還是很慎重的去提醒因為今天這幾天我相信所有的部會包括經濟部現在也在然後還有其他的部會其實他牽動非常廣泛所以在這裡我們還是要提醒尤其算\n外交部長不在不過我們還是希望這個部分外交部還是要掌握最大的一個能量因為其實你們應該跟美方的脈動不然你告訴國人一直以來告訴國人說我們是台美有史以來關係最好的我們都看不出好在哪裡我們吃了美豬然後我們現在他甚至可能還要求我們的標示不可以有明顯的標示那當時對我們全國人民所講的話那個\n你現在智利進來的櫻桃或者其他的日本的蘋果他都很清楚的標示是哪裡來的產地啊就像我們國內要求我們的農民要履歷產地是一樣的啊那為什麼美國如果他要求我們這樣我們會妥協嗎那我覺得我們都會全力跟美國溝通經濟部講一下這個部分會不會妥協\n因為這個是涉及的談判的策略所以我們一定會站在台灣產業的立場如果你今天在這裡沒有辦法對我們國家或者我們所有人民或者我們食品的安全你過去對人民的承諾你現在去談判你就要強力的要求因為這是為人民把關你今天其他的產品人家都沒有問題的他都可以標示啊\n智利啊 澳洲啊 紐西蘭的起義股啊什麼大家都標示得非常清楚如果你這個沒有讓人家有疑慮你幹嘛擔心人家標示那如果應該要標示對哪一個國家都一樣所以這個部分我們在這裡提出特別的要求我們應該要把關的 應該要堅持的我們希望談判小組一定要堅持到底可不可以做到我們一定會去盡我們的盡全力去積極的爭取產業的利益\n那另外我們在這裡已經提醒了另外賴總統針對這個美國關稅政策他有提出五大因應的策略那剛剛我們提到很多可是其中有一個他就是拖中入北這是好像早上有特別提出來的一個方向所以拖中入北當然就是希望重心不要放在中國大陸的這些投資那希望可以入北你們的看法怎麼樣\n脫中入北的它的這個過程其實是很正面的也就是說台灣可以用自己的經濟實力來透過這個這個立足台灣同時呢要佈局全世界那我們經濟部的話會協助廠商來做全球的佈局例如呢像這些我想請教一下因為剛剛你在業務報告的時候有大概念了一下可是當時在2019年\n中美貿易大戰的時候那時候政府也希望因為免於受到很大的衝擊所以台商自己本身也很清楚所以都從中國把它往外移那時候其實政府推的是新南向那現在新南向呢不適合了\n你現在又要脫中入北那你過去的新南向呢新南向有什麼問題嗎好不容易供應鏈才漸漸的落實完成那個不像我們一般要搬家他那個廠房投資各方面還有人力的培訓他在一個地方如果可以安定下來\n過了六年現在好不容易慢慢達成這樣你現在又有一個新的說要入北而且你入北的國家通常都是不管在人工的成本各方面的投資成本上面都是比較高的以台灣的實力或者經濟部更沒有條件去說你們政府可以給這些廠商做什麼因為我覺得你在政策上面你沒有辦法延續你必須告訴大家新南向為什麼不行了\n報告委員其實除了我們台商除了去新南向國家之外,有部分有回台灣,甚至也有我們的電子產業聚落,現在也有到墨西哥。那經濟部在去年,在今年在歐洲也設立了這個投資服務中心。\n因為我們認為我們要的不是投資服務中心我們要的是你政府的政策要有一貫性你過去在新南向這一個部分我現在要知道的是新南向有沒有發生什麼樣的問題因為大家已經都投資在那裡了剛剛說的墨西哥當然墨西哥以現在美國的關稅部的那種\n的政策來說他可能算是比較好一點的可是他隨時在變動而且川普他現在掌理美國他隨時都在改變我剛剛提到的如果我們去投資像剛剛講到的托中入北這些北方的民主國家我們號稱的民主國家他的投資成本是很高的這對於我們整個產業是不是有利我希望可以有一個具體的數據資料再提供給本席還有我們委員好不好\n好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.109 --> 00:05.273\n麻煩請外交部現在是次長請陳次長還有經濟部\n\n00:17.467 --> 00:24.232\n你好謝謝次長今天我們主要大概是針對我們關稅的這個部分來做一個專報那美國總統川普他在宣布對等關稅的這個政策的時候其實搞得全世界人仰馬翻雖然現在暫時有90天的緩衝期不過川普大概也等著世界各國\n\n00:43.425 --> 00:47.112\n去跟他書城去跟他談判所以談判大概也沒有辦法談什麼大概他的主導性還是非常強就這一點我們的談判小組已經出發了嗎\n\n00:58.487 --> 01:20.032\n這個我們在跟美國的所有的溝通感到暢通無阻具體的這個施程我們這個還是基於雙方的誠信原則我們想是說還是有一定程度上也不便揭露的地方我們已經就像我們部長之前回覆委員的話一樣就是說我們的已經掛上好了\n\n01:20.632 --> 01:29.835\n好那麼我們隨時Ready可以去跟他進行這個相關的談判在等美方的時間通知時間我們會主動我們會很主動的來進行相關的這個準備那麼也隨時準備可以進行他有對象嘛我們\n\n01:38.057 --> 02:00.649\n對象就好像我們OTM所說的一樣包括美國財政部美國的商業部美國的USTR這都是我們主要的對口單位我們現在看到談判小組雖然其實我們涵蓋了國安體系、外交體系、經貿談判辦公室還有其他的業界、學界我們好像都有納入\n\n02:02.531 --> 02:11.345\n當然他談判的這個本質上面我們有政府體系那代表的人物當然吳釗燮秘書長他已經出發了嘛這我不便透露\n\n02:17.769 --> 02:23.894\n這個好像大家都知道啊現在是因為你該做的就算這個有什麼好不便透露的你如果可以做吳釗燮身為過去是外交部長他現在是國安會的秘書長你不用特別說他跟誰見面可是你本來就要因應那出去就出去了這有什麼好不便透露的我現在看到的是因為去年8月\n\n02:42.387 --> 02:46.151\n吳釗燮秘書長他是跟林佳龍部長一起出去訪美他也是用比較特殊的管道那現在他已經出發可是這一次我們林佳龍部長是沒有出去的那對我們因為包括我們在美方給我們的\n\n03:02.667 --> 03:07.229\n訊息我相信他報給就是我們的駐美的代表處其實當時是給什麼樣的資訊可以讓賴總統他說讓大家放心然後我們的卓院長讓大家安心入睡甚至民進黨的總召他都可以大剌剌的說我們大概只會10%的關稅\n\n03:25.675 --> 03:51.294\n完全讓大家隔天一覺醒來都靜呆了所以其實我們說有史以來關係最好或者我們有掌握什麼樣的狀況顯然不是那你現在如果說像這樣的狀況之下我們要去談判已經有建議像張忠謀可以納入我們的談判的一個小組裡面有沒有可能有沒有考量\n\n03:52.279 --> 04:00.883\n委員的意見我們都是會向內傳達當然最後變成談判的決定我們外交部是負責收集相關的資訊提出相關的好的建議剛才委員指導的相關的東西第一個我們每處都有充分掌握相關的資訊我們的資訊是完全錯誤的所以不要再拿出來談這個部分\n\n04:19.332 --> 04:22.235\n你出來的資訊是跟大家天然地別差的太多所以我們現在講的是為了我們台灣整體的利益尤其這個關稅對我們打擊非常的大台灣的經濟高度依賴外貿我們在2023年其實我們貿易額是GDP的99%\n\n04:38.130 --> 04:50.218\n我相信這個在座的各位都非常的清楚所以這個談判小組其實是非常重要的因為我們不希望說你到時候我們的談判小組去只是去聽然後去全盤的接收你一點談判的能力都沒有的情況之下我們現在很多國人會擔心因為以川普的個性他甚至像越南他直接去了最早他表達要零關稅\n\n05:06.148 --> 05:16.133\n他根本覺得遠遠不足而且非常不屑所以對於我們來說我們今天談判的代表也非常的重要因為他攸關我們未來不管整體的經濟貿易或者我們未來的產業發展他都有很大的影響那既然我們在APEC的時候其實都可以請張忠謀去參加那如果這個談判對於我們來說因為第一對業界最了解的對產業界最了解的\n\n05:34.822 --> 05:46.010\n對整個我們半導體或者其他國家整個全球的脈動很了解的非他莫屬所以其實他是一個很好的人才當然也有人建議蔡英文前總統那可是他的身份不曉得適不適合那不知道可是我們還是希望台灣可以派出最強而有力的一個談判的代表來爭取我們這一個困境的解決好不好\n\n06:00.439 --> 06:20.627\n是,剛才委員的這個建議我們一定傳達給決策者。第二個是說,也請委員放心,就是說在關於談判上面來說的話,其實我想針對這個撤補的關稅,大概就是說我們要做好所有的功課,然後要做好所有的萬全的準備,各種的可能性。\n\n06:21.387 --> 06:47.180\n就外交部的立場來說,我們所有的訊息都有透過各種的管道來掌握那不可否認的,因為川普總統他的談判的風格那麼很多的時候我們掌握,但是說他還是像昨天的突然宣布90天暫緩實施的時候其實很多時候可能連他的格言都不一定能夠完全掌握\n\n06:47.720 --> 07:03.567\n那麼所以是說這個談判上面一定會有一定的彈性但是做好功課雖然川普總統他的決策因為他事先都已經預告了他昨天這個90天其實可能是比較很多人是比較意外的可是他在關稅要課徵重稅這個不是後來才講\n\n07:07.228 --> 07:26.261\n可是我們掌握的訊息顯然是不對的所以我想沒有什麼任何理由在這裡提說我們有什麼準備而且有做功課如果有做功課而且甚至知道說他可能會對我們課這麼重的稅因為我們台積電都已經送去了他還對我們至少中國2%\n\n07:28.422 --> 07:30.123\n我們遠遠比日本、韓國我們其他有競爭力的國家我們都比他高得多所以我們未來談判你還要再送出什麼我們已經送了台積電你又要買武器然後又要零關稅然後對於他的所有的\n\n07:44.491 --> 07:47.412\n採購還要大力的加碼我們還能給什麼所以如果回來還是告訴我們就是這些那我覺得那還不如不要談判所以在這裡我們還是很慎重的去提醒因為今天這幾天我相信所有的部會包括經濟部現在也在然後還有其他的部會其實他牽動非常廣泛所以在這裡我們還是要提醒尤其算\n\n08:11.102 --> 08:20.645\n外交部長不在不過我們還是希望這個部分外交部還是要掌握最大的一個能量因為其實你們應該跟美方的脈動不然你告訴國人一直以來告訴國人說我們是台美有史以來關係最好的我們都看不出好在哪裡我們吃了美豬然後我們現在他甚至可能還要求我們的標示不可以有明顯的標示那當時對我們全國人民所講的話那個\n\n08:40.931 --> 08:51.062\n你現在智利進來的櫻桃或者其他的日本的蘋果他都很清楚的標示是哪裡來的產地啊就像我們國內要求我們的農民要履歷產地是一樣的啊那為什麼美國如果他要求我們這樣我們會妥協嗎那我覺得我們都會全力跟美國溝通經濟部講一下這個部分會不會妥協\n\n09:04.462 --> 09:10.767\n因為這個是涉及的談判的策略所以我們一定會站在台灣產業的立場如果你今天在這裡沒有辦法對我們國家或者我們所有人民或者我們食品的安全你過去對人民的承諾你現在去談判你就要強力的要求因為這是為人民把關你今天其他的產品人家都沒有問題的他都可以標示啊\n\n09:28.582 --> 09:38.926\n智利啊澳洲啊紐西蘭的起義股啊什麼大家都標示得非常清楚如果你這個沒有讓人家有疑慮你幹嘛擔心人家標示那如果應該要標示對哪一個國家都一樣所以這個部分我們在這裡提出特別的要求我們應該要把關的應該要堅持的我們希望談判小組一定要堅持到底可不可以做到我們一定會去盡我們的盡全力去積極的爭取產業的利益\n\n09:56.974 --> 10:01.157\n那另外我們在這裡已經提醒了另外賴總統針對這個美國關稅政策他有提出五大因應的策略那剛剛我們提到很多可是其中有一個他就是拖中入北這是好像早上有特別提出來的一個方向所以拖中入北當然就是希望重心不要放在中國大陸的這些投資那希望可以入北你們的看法怎麼樣\n\n10:27.615 --> 10:50.929\n脫中入北的它的這個過程其實是很正面的也就是說台灣可以用自己的經濟實力來透過這個這個立足台灣同時呢要佈局全世界那我們經濟部的話會協助廠商來做全球的佈局例如呢像這些我想請教一下因為剛剛你在業務報告的時候有大概念了一下可是當時在2019年\n\n10:55.112 --> 11:09.125\n中美貿易大戰的時候那時候政府也希望因為免於受到很大的衝擊所以台商自己本身也很清楚所以都從中國把它往外移那時候其實政府推的是新南向那現在新南向呢不適合了\n\n11:12.087 --> 11:14.969\n你現在又要脫中入北那你過去的新南向呢新南向有什麼問題嗎好不容易供應鏈才漸漸的落實完成那個不像我們一般要搬家他那個廠房投資各方面還有人力的培訓他在一個地方如果可以安定下來\n\n11:31.698 --> 11:36.821\n過了六年現在好不容易慢慢達成這樣你現在又有一個新的說要入北而且你入北的國家通常都是不管在人工的成本各方面的投資成本上面都是比較高的以台灣的實力或者經濟部更沒有條件去說你們政府可以給這些廠商做什麼因為我覺得你在政策上面你沒有辦法延續你必須告訴大家新南向為什麼不行了\n\n11:59.894 --> 12:17.009\n報告委員其實除了我們台商除了去新南向國家之外,有部分有回台灣,甚至也有我們的電子產業聚落,現在也有到墨西哥。那經濟部在去年,在今年在歐洲也設立了這個投資服務中心。\n\n12:17.549 --> 12:20.612\n因為我們認為我們要的不是投資服務中心我們要的是你政府的政策要有一貫性你過去在新南向這一個部分我現在要知道的是新南向有沒有發生什麼樣的問題因為大家已經都投資在那裡了剛剛說的墨西哥當然墨西哥以現在美國的關稅部的那種\n\n12:37.009 --> 12:41.732\n的政策來說他可能算是比較好一點的可是他隨時在變動而且川普他現在掌理美國他隨時都在改變我剛剛提到的如果我們去投資像剛剛講到的托中入北這些北方的民主國家我們號稱的民主國家他的投資成本是很高的這對於我們整個產業是不是有利我希望可以有一個具體的數據資料再提供給本席還有我們委員好不好\n\n13:06.850 --> 13:06.870\n好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.109,"end":5.273,"text":"麻煩請外交部現在是次長請陳次長還有經濟部"},{"start":17.467,"end":24.232,"text":"你好謝謝次長今天我們主要大概是針對我們關稅的這個部分來做一個專報那美國總統川普他在宣布對等關稅的這個政策的時候其實搞得全世界人仰馬翻雖然現在暫時有90天的緩衝期不過川普大概也等著世界各國"},{"start":43.425,"end":47.112,"text":"去跟他書城去跟他談判所以談判大概也沒有辦法談什麼大概他的主導性還是非常強就這一點我們的談判小組已經出發了嗎"},{"start":58.487,"end":80.032,"text":"這個我們在跟美國的所有的溝通感到暢通無阻具體的這個施程我們這個還是基於雙方的誠信原則我們想是說還是有一定程度上也不便揭露的地方我們已經就像我們部長之前回覆委員的話一樣就是說我們的已經掛上好了"},{"start":80.632,"end":89.835,"text":"好 那麼我們隨時Ready可以去跟他進行這個相關的談判在等美方的時間 通知時間我們會主動 我們會很主動的來進行相關的這個準備那麼也隨時準備可以進行他有對象嘛 我們"},{"start":98.057,"end":120.649,"text":"對象就好像我們OTM所說的一樣包括美國財政部美國的商業部美國的USTR這都是我們主要的對口單位我們現在看到談判小組雖然其實我們涵蓋了國安體系、外交體系、經貿談判辦公室還有其他的業界、學界我們好像都有納入"},{"start":122.531,"end":131.345,"text":"當然他談判的這個本質上面我們有政府體系那代表的人物當然吳釗燮秘書長他已經出發了嘛這我不便透露"},{"start":137.769,"end":143.894,"text":"這個好像大家都知道啊現在是因為你該做的就算這個有什麼好不便透露的你如果可以做吳釗燮身為過去是外交部長他現在是國安會的秘書長你不用特別說他跟誰見面可是你本來就要因應那出去就出去了這有什麼好不便透露的我現在看到的是因為去年8月"},{"start":162.387,"end":166.151,"text":"吳釗燮秘書長他是跟林佳龍部長一起出去訪美他也是用比較特殊的管道那現在他已經出發可是這一次我們林佳龍部長是沒有出去的那對我們因為包括我們在美方給我們的"},{"start":182.667,"end":187.229,"text":"訊息我相信他報給就是我們的駐美的代表處其實當時是給什麼樣的資訊可以讓賴總統他說讓大家放心然後我們的卓院長讓大家安心入睡甚至民進黨的總召他都可以大剌剌的說我們大概只會10%的關稅"},{"start":205.675,"end":231.294,"text":"完全讓大家隔天一覺醒來都靜呆了所以其實我們說有史以來關係最好或者我們有掌握什麼樣的狀況顯然不是那你現在如果說像這樣的狀況之下我們要去談判已經有建議像張忠謀可以納入我們的談判的一個小組裡面有沒有可能有沒有考量"},{"start":232.279,"end":240.883,"text":"委員的意見我們都是會向內傳達當然最後變成談判的決定我們外交部是負責收集相關的資訊提出相關的好的建議剛才委員指導的相關的東西第一個我們每處都有充分掌握相關的資訊我們的資訊是完全錯誤的所以不要再拿出來談這個部分"},{"start":259.332,"end":262.235,"text":"你出來的資訊是跟大家天然地別差的太多所以我們現在講的是為了我們台灣整體的利益尤其這個關稅對我們打擊非常的大台灣的經濟高度依賴外貿我們在2023年其實我們貿易額是GDP的99%"},{"start":278.13,"end":290.218,"text":"我相信這個在座的各位都非常的清楚所以這個談判小組其實是非常重要的因為我們不希望說你到時候我們的談判小組去只是去聽然後去全盤的接收你一點談判的能力都沒有的情況之下我們現在很多國人會擔心因為以川普的個性他甚至像越南他直接去了最早他表達要零關稅"},{"start":306.148,"end":316.133,"text":"他根本覺得遠遠不足而且非常不屑所以對於我們來說我們今天談判的代表也非常的重要因為他攸關我們未來不管整體的經濟貿易或者我們未來的產業發展他都有很大的影響那既然我們在APEC的時候其實都可以請張忠謀去參加那如果這個談判對於我們來說因為第一對業界最了解的對產業界最了解的"},{"start":334.822,"end":346.01,"text":"對整個我們半導體或者其他國家整個全球的脈動很了解的非他莫屬所以其實他是一個很好的人才當然也有人建議蔡英文前總統那可是他的身份不曉得適不適合那不知道可是我們還是希望台灣可以派出最強而有力的一個談判的代表來爭取我們這一個困境的解決好不好"},{"start":360.439,"end":380.627,"text":"是,剛才委員的這個建議我們一定傳達給決策者。第二個是說,也請委員放心,就是說在關於談判上面來說的話,其實我想針對這個撤補的關稅,大概就是說我們要做好所有的功課,然後要做好所有的萬全的準備,各種的可能性。"},{"start":381.387,"end":407.18,"text":"就外交部的立場來說,我們所有的訊息都有透過各種的管道來掌握那不可否認的,因為川普總統他的談判的風格那麼很多的時候我們掌握,但是說他還是像昨天的突然宣布90天暫緩實施的時候其實很多時候可能連他的格言都不一定能夠完全掌握"},{"start":407.72,"end":423.567,"text":"那麼所以是說這個談判上面一定會有一定的彈性但是做好功課雖然川普總統他的決策因為他事先都已經預告了他昨天這個90天其實可能是比較很多人是比較意外的可是他在關稅要課徵重稅這個不是後來才講"},{"start":427.228,"end":446.261,"text":"可是我們掌握的訊息顯然是不對的所以我想沒有什麼任何理由在這裡提說我們有什麼準備而且有做功課如果有做功課而且甚至知道說他可能會對我們課這麼重的稅因為我們台積電都已經送去了他還對我們至少中國2%"},{"start":448.422,"end":450.123,"text":"我們遠遠比日本、韓國我們其他有競爭力的國家我們都比他高得多所以我們未來談判你還要再送出什麼我們已經送了台積電你又要買武器然後又要零關稅然後對於他的所有的"},{"start":464.491,"end":467.412,"text":"採購還要大力的加碼我們還能給什麼所以如果回來還是告訴我們就是這些那我覺得那還不如不要談判所以在這裡我們還是很慎重的去提醒因為今天這幾天我相信所有的部會包括經濟部現在也在然後還有其他的部會其實他牽動非常廣泛所以在這裡我們還是要提醒尤其算"},{"start":491.102,"end":500.645,"text":"外交部長不在不過我們還是希望這個部分外交部還是要掌握最大的一個能量因為其實你們應該跟美方的脈動不然你告訴國人一直以來告訴國人說我們是台美有史以來關係最好的我們都看不出好在哪裡我們吃了美豬然後我們現在他甚至可能還要求我們的標示不可以有明顯的標示那當時對我們全國人民所講的話那個"},{"start":520.931,"end":531.062,"text":"你現在智利進來的櫻桃或者其他的日本的蘋果他都很清楚的標示是哪裡來的產地啊就像我們國內要求我們的農民要履歷產地是一樣的啊那為什麼美國如果他要求我們這樣我們會妥協嗎那我覺得我們都會全力跟美國溝通經濟部講一下這個部分會不會妥協"},{"start":544.462,"end":550.767,"text":"因為這個是涉及的談判的策略所以我們一定會站在台灣產業的立場如果你今天在這裡沒有辦法對我們國家或者我們所有人民或者我們食品的安全你過去對人民的承諾你現在去談判你就要強力的要求因為這是為人民把關你今天其他的產品人家都沒有問題的他都可以標示啊"},{"start":568.582,"end":578.926,"text":"智利啊 澳洲啊 紐西蘭的起義股啊什麼大家都標示得非常清楚如果你這個沒有讓人家有疑慮你幹嘛擔心人家標示那如果應該要標示對哪一個國家都一樣所以這個部分我們在這裡提出特別的要求我們應該要把關的 應該要堅持的我們希望談判小組一定要堅持到底可不可以做到我們一定會去盡我們的盡全力去積極的爭取產業的利益"},{"start":596.974,"end":601.157,"text":"那另外我們在這裡已經提醒了另外賴總統針對這個美國關稅政策他有提出五大因應的策略那剛剛我們提到很多可是其中有一個他就是拖中入北這是好像早上有特別提出來的一個方向所以拖中入北當然就是希望重心不要放在中國大陸的這些投資那希望可以入北你們的看法怎麼樣"},{"start":627.615,"end":650.929,"text":"脫中入北的它的這個過程其實是很正面的也就是說台灣可以用自己的經濟實力來透過這個這個立足台灣同時呢要佈局全世界那我們經濟部的話會協助廠商來做全球的佈局例如呢像這些我想請教一下因為剛剛你在業務報告的時候有大概念了一下可是當時在2019年"},{"start":655.112,"end":669.125,"text":"中美貿易大戰的時候那時候政府也希望因為免於受到很大的衝擊所以台商自己本身也很清楚所以都從中國把它往外移那時候其實政府推的是新南向那現在新南向呢不適合了"},{"start":672.087,"end":674.969,"text":"你現在又要脫中入北那你過去的新南向呢新南向有什麼問題嗎好不容易供應鏈才漸漸的落實完成那個不像我們一般要搬家他那個廠房投資各方面還有人力的培訓他在一個地方如果可以安定下來"},{"start":691.698,"end":696.821,"text":"過了六年現在好不容易慢慢達成這樣你現在又有一個新的說要入北而且你入北的國家通常都是不管在人工的成本各方面的投資成本上面都是比較高的以台灣的實力或者經濟部更沒有條件去說你們政府可以給這些廠商做什麼因為我覺得你在政策上面你沒有辦法延續你必須告訴大家新南向為什麼不行了"},{"start":719.894,"end":737.009,"text":"報告委員其實除了我們台商除了去新南向國家之外,有部分有回台灣,甚至也有我們的電子產業聚落,現在也有到墨西哥。那經濟部在去年,在今年在歐洲也設立了這個投資服務中心。"},{"start":737.549,"end":740.612,"text":"因為我們認為我們要的不是投資服務中心我們要的是你政府的政策要有一貫性你過去在新南向這一個部分我現在要知道的是新南向有沒有發生什麼樣的問題因為大家已經都投資在那裡了剛剛說的墨西哥當然墨西哥以現在美國的關稅部的那種"},{"start":757.009,"end":761.732,"text":"的政策來說他可能算是比較好一點的可是他隨時在變動而且川普他現在掌理美國他隨時都在改變我剛剛提到的如果我們去投資像剛剛講到的托中入北這些北方的民主國家我們號稱的民主國家他的投資成本是很高的這對於我們整個產業是不是有利我希望可以有一個具體的數據資料再提供給本席還有我們委員好不好"},{"start":786.85,"end":786.87,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":233,"blocks":[["馬委員文君：（10時13分）謝謝主席，麻煩請外交部陳次長及經濟部。"],["陳次長明祺：你好。"],["馬委員文君：次長，今天主要是針對關稅的部分來做專報，美國總統川普在宣布對等關稅政策的時候，卻搞得全世界人仰馬翻，雖然現在暫時有90天的緩衝期，不過川普大概也等著世界各國去跟他輸誠、去跟他談判，所謂的談判大概也沒有辦法談什麼，他的主導性還是非常強。就這一點，我們的談判小組已經出發了嗎？"],["陳次長明祺：我們跟美國的所有溝通管道都暢通無阻……"],["馬委員文君：暢通無阻？"],["陳次長明祺：關於具體的時程，我們基於雙方的誠信原則，還是有一定程度上不便揭露的地方，但就像部長之前回復委員的話一樣，我們已經掛上號了，隨時ready可以去跟他進行相關的談判。"],["馬委員文君：在等美方通知時間，是嗎？"],["陳次長明祺：我們會很主動地來進行相關的準備，也隨時準備可以……"],["馬委員文君：有對象嘛！我們是有談判的對象。"],["陳次長明祺：有對象，就像剛才OTN所說的一樣，包括美國的財政部、美國的商務部、美國的USTR，這些都是我們主要的對口單位。"],["馬委員文君：我們現在看到談判小組，其實涵蓋了國安體系、外交體系、經貿談判辦公室，還有其他的業界、學界，我們好像都有納入，當然在談判的本質上面，我們有政府體系，代表人物吳釗燮秘書長已經出發了嘛？"],["陳次長明祺：這個我不便透露。"],["馬委員文君：這個好像大家都知道啊！這個有什麼好不便透露的，吳釗燮過去身為外交部部長，他現在是國安會秘書長，你不用特別說他跟誰見面，可是你本來就要因應，出去就出去了，這有什麼好不便透露的？"],["陳次長明祺：我們現在……"],["馬委員文君：我現在看到的是，因為去年8月吳釗燮秘書長跟林佳龍部長一起去訪美，他也是用比較特殊的管道，現在他已經出發，可是這一次林佳龍部長是沒有出去的，包括美方給我們的訊息，就是我們的駐美代表處當時是給什麼樣的資訊，可以讓賴總統說讓大家放心，然後卓院長說讓大家安心入睡，甚至民進黨總召都可以大剌剌地說我們大概只會有10%的關稅，結果讓大家隔天一覺醒來完全都驚呆了。其實我們說現在是有史以來關係最好的時候，或者我們有掌握什麼樣的狀況，顯然不是，如果在這樣的狀況之下我們要去談判，已經有建議張忠謀可以納入談判小組裡面，有沒有可能、有沒有考量？"],["陳次長明祺：委員的意見我們都是會向內傳達，當然最後面的談判決定，外交部是負責蒐集相關的資訊，提出相關好的建議，而剛才委員指導的相關東西，第一個，我們美處都有充分掌握相關的資訊，也適時地傳達……"],["馬委員文君：我們的資訊是完全錯誤的，所以不要再拿出來談這個部分，因為你們出來的資訊是跟大家天差地別、差得太多。我們現在講的是，為了臺灣整體的利益，尤其這個關稅對我們的打擊非常地大，臺灣的經濟高度依賴外貿，在2023年我們貿易額是GDP的99%，我相信在座的各位都非常清楚，所以這個談判小組是非常重要的，因為我們不希望到時候我們的談判小組只是去聽，然後全盤接收。在一點談判的能力都沒有的情況之下，現在很多國人會擔心，因為以川普的個性，甚至像越南，它直接去了，最早它表達要零關稅，但他根本覺得遠遠不足，而且非常不屑，所以對於我們來說，我們談判的代表也非常重要，因為這攸關未來整體的經濟貿易或者未來的產業發展，它都有很大的影響。","既然我們在APEC的時候都可以請張忠謀去參加，如果這個談判對於我們來說非常重要，因為第一，對業界最了解的、對產業界最了解的、對整個半導體或者對其他國家、整個全球脈動很了解的非他莫屬，所以其實他是一個很好的人才，當然也有人建議蔡英文前總統，可是他的身分不曉得適不適合，這不知道，可是我們還是希望臺灣可以派出最強而有力的談判代表，來爭取這一個困境的解決，好不好？"],["陳次長明祺：是，剛才委員的建議我們一定傳達給決策者。第二個，也請委員放心，關於談判上面，其實我想針對川普的關稅，大概就是我們要做好所有的功課，然後要做好所有萬全的準備及各種的可能性。就外交部的立場來說，我們所有的訊息都有透過各種的管道來掌握，不可否認的，因為川普總統的談判風格，雖然很多時候我們有掌握，但是像昨天突然宣布90天暫緩實施，其實很多時候可能連他的閣員都不一定能夠完全掌握。所以在這個談判上一定會有一定的彈性，但是做好功課大概還是最基本的。"],["馬委員文君：雖然川普總統他昨天這個90天的決策，可能很多人是比較意外的，可是他在關稅上要課徵重稅，這個不是後來才講，因為他事先都已經預告了，我們掌握的訊息顯然是不對的，所以我想沒有任何理由可以在這裡說我們有什麼準備，而且有做功課，如果有做功課，甚至知道他可能會對我們課這麼重的稅，因為我們台積電都已經送去了，他還對我們課重稅，只少中國2%，我們的稅率遠遠比日本、韓國其他有競爭力的國家都高得多。所以我們未來談判，你還要再送出什麼？我們已經送了台積電，還要買武器，然後要零關稅，對於他的所有採購還要大力的加碼，我們還能給什麼？所以如果回來還是告訴我們就是這些，我覺得那還不如不要談判。","在這裡我們還是要很慎重的提醒，因為這幾天，我相信所有的部會包括經濟部，還有其他的部會，其實它牽動得非常廣泛，雖然外交部長不在，不過我們還是希望在這部分外交部還是要掌握最大的一個能量，你們應該掌握美方的脈動，不然你們一直以來告訴國人說，現在是臺美有史以來關係最好的時候，我們都看不出好在哪裡。我們吃了美豬，現在他甚至可能還要要求我們不可以有明顯的標示，當時我們對全國人民所講的話，現在智利進來的櫻桃或者日本的蘋果，都很清楚的標示產地，就像我們要求國內的農民要有履歷產地是一樣的，美國如果要求我們這樣，我們會妥協嗎？"],["陳次長明祺：這我們都會全力跟美國溝通，我們也希望……"],["馬委員文君：經濟部講一下，這個部分會不會妥協？"],["江次長文若：因為這涉及談判的策略，所以我們一定會站在臺灣產業的立場……"],["馬委員文君：什麼叫談判的策略？你過去對人民有關食品安全的承諾，你現在去談判就要強力的要求，因為這是為人民把關，今天其他的產品，人家沒有問題的，他都可以標示啊！來自智利、澳洲、紐西蘭的奇異果什麼，大家都標示得非常清楚，如果沒有讓人家有疑慮，你幹嘛擔心人家標示？如果應該要標示，對哪一個國家應該都一樣。所以這部分我們在這裡提出特別的要求，我們應該要把關的、應該要堅持的，希望談判小組一定要堅持到底，可不可以做到？"],["江次長文若：我們一定會盡全力去積極爭取產業的利益。"],["馬委員文君：我們在這裡已經提醒。另外，賴總統針對美國關稅政策提出了五大因應策略，剛剛我們提到很多，其中有一個就是「脫中入北」，這好像是早上特別提出來的一個方向，所謂「脫中入北」大概就是希望重心不要放在對中國大陸的投資，希望可以入北，你們的看法怎麼樣？"],["江次長文若：脫中入北的過程其實是很正面的，也就是臺灣可以用自己的經濟實力來立足臺灣，同時布局全世界，我們經濟部會協助廠商來做全球的布局，例如……"],["馬委員文君：我想請教一下，因為剛剛你在業務報告的時候有大概唸了一下，可是在2019年中美貿易大戰的時候，政府也希望免於受到很大的衝擊，所有台商自己也很清楚，所以都從中國往外移，那時候其實政府推的是新南向，那現在新南向呢？不適合了？你現在又要脫中入北，那過去的新南向呢？新南向有什麼問題嗎？好不容易供應鏈才漸漸的落實完成，那個不像我們一般搬家耶，廠房、投資還有人力的培訓，它在一個地方如果可以安定下來，過了6年現在好不容易慢慢達成，你現在又有一個新的想法，說要入北，而且你要入北的國家不管在人工、成本各方面的投資成本上都是比較高的，以臺灣的實力或經濟部更沒有條件去說，你們政府可以為這些廠商做什麼，因為我覺得在政策上你沒有辦法延續，你必須告訴大家新南向為什麼不行了。"],["江次長文若：報告委員，其實我們台商除了去新南向國家之外，有部分回臺灣，我們的電子產業聚落甚至也有到墨西哥的，經濟部今年在歐洲也設立了投資服務中心，因為我們認為……"],["馬委員文君：我們要的不是投資服務中心，我們要的是政府的政策要有一貫性，我現在要知道的是新南向有沒有發生什麼樣的問題，因為大家已經都投資在那裡了。剛剛說的墨西哥，當然墨西哥以現在美國的關稅政策來說，它可能算是比較好一點的，可是川普現在掌理美國，隨時都在改變，我剛剛提到如果我們去投資，像剛剛講到的脫中入北，這些北方的我們號稱的民主國家，投資成本是很高的，這對於我們整個產業是不是有利，我希望可以有一個具體的數據資料提供給本席還有所有委員，好不好？"],["江次長文若：是。"],["馬委員文君：好，謝謝。"],["主席（黃委員仁）：謝謝馬文君委員的質詢。","接下來由沈伯洋委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":210,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-7","speakers":["黃仁","王定宇","陳永康","羅美玲","馬文君","沈伯洋","徐巧芯","陳冠廷","楊瓊瓔","陳俊宇","林倩綺","林楚茵","李坤城","葉元之","林憶君"],"page_start":167,"meetingDate":["2025-04-10"],"gazette_id":"1143601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143601_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長、經濟部次長、大陸委員會副主任委員、財政部次長、國家發展委員會副主任委\n員、行政院經貿談判辦公室副總談判代表、中央銀行副總裁報告「美國開啟全球貿易制裁及與中\n共競合下，我外交經貿戰略佈局及因應」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143601_00004"}}}