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\"start\": 789.031, \"end\": 789.051, \"score\": 0.003}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,310 --> 00:00:03,292\n好我們接下來請羅廷偉委員好謝謝昭偉有請院長好有請廖院長\n\n2\n00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:46,121\n好院長好院長國科會吳承文主委說過台灣經濟實力已經在世界20左右那可是幾十年的努力之下來連一個諾貝爾獎都沒有實在是很丟臉這是他說的那日本於1996年通過了科學技術基本法成立了科學技術委員會透過了保障科研的預算等方式那我們看到他們如此之重視\n\n3\n00:00:46,781 --> 00:01:12,397\n那提高了日本的科學技術水準2001年修訂通過第二版的科學技術基本法明確指出50年要拿下30個諾貝爾獎那目前呢日本已經有29位諾貝爾獎得主其中有一位是團體的那台灣呢台灣土生土長唯一目前拿過諾貝爾獎是1986年的李遠哲我們前院長那最靠近最靠近諾貝爾獎的是2022年翁啟惠前院長\n\n4\n00:01:15,399 --> 00:01:29,953\n那我想這兩位都來自中研院所以我想中研院讓我們有所期待那也希望在這樣的一個部分上院長你覺得提升一國的科研能力關鍵在於哪裡是政府的投資還不夠多嗎還需要更大量的預算嗎\n\n5\n00:01:30,373 --> 00:01:51,326\n需要有很好的土壤很好的環境這個科研環境的創造才能夠吸引人才才能讓人才在無憂無慮的環境之下發揮他的創造力那希望能夠大家能夠給予支持給予鼓勵那跟這個國際一起競爭那我們要看到的是研究人員實際的貢獻對社會對學術方面的貢獻而不是單靠他的\n\n6\n00:01:57,030 --> 00:02:20,142\n功成名就之後才說給他拍手因為他得諾貝爾獎我們在努力的過程當中我們要給予肯定給予支持給予鼓勵給予經費上的最大彈性當然給予支持上我們當然都希望能夠給予一些支持所以你的說法就是不要只是得獎那你也否認了就是吳承文主委所說的連一個諾貝爾獎得主都沒有實在很丟臉這樣的說法你不一定認同\n\n7\n00:02:20,942 --> 00:02:49,515\n但是我想跟他講是說我們當然很希望說台灣有很多拿到很多世界第一拿到很多諾貝爾獎我們拿到世界冠軍這個也冠軍那個當然我們相信中研院現在所有的研究一定是希望社會能夠有所進步來幫忙做一些相關的研究我們都能夠知道但我們也希望讓世界看到台灣那目前我們現在最重要的問題是說我們現在一路走來台灣有很多的措施很多的政策頂大計畫\n\n8\n00:02:50,555 --> 00:02:57,472\n高教生跟玉山計畫等等會不會跟這些計畫的資源去過度的分散你覺得有可能嗎\n\n9\n00:03:00,180 --> 00:03:28,032\n這個很多問題最主要是我們在學研界每一個人的方向目標沒有定得很清楚這是最近一直在講的不可能在座任何人把目標定在得諾貝爾獎至少這個人文學者就不能拿所以我們要把目標定清楚我們為什麼要做研究為什麼這個研究重要能夠闡述得清楚爭取立法院的同意\n\n10\n00:03:28,832 --> 00:03:55,100\n支持立法院也應該考量學術研究的特殊狀況那把跟政治性的跟一般機關的預算做分開的審查我們要的不僅是更多的資源我們要的是資源的彈性運用我們必須知道說我們眾院確實是拿了很多的資源但是不能用不好用是因為它之間沒有辦法留用很多譬如說設備費不能留用\n\n11\n00:04:00,225 --> 00:04:11,500\n用人費不能留用等等的那加上最近有一些其他的限制這樣子我想跟你請教你剛剛有提到一些建議沒關係我都聽到如果能夠給予協助我們當然不讓我們都願意後續再有幫忙\n\n12\n00:04:15,885 --> 00:04:33,548\n但是學術上的一個建議呢是不是你也能夠給一些大家更多的一些建議我們看到日本有良好的科學科研環境那科學研究人員能在自己的計畫和支配研究工作也不會因為一段時間內沒有研究成果而影響評價但台灣好像跟日本不太一樣\n\n13\n00:04:33,888 --> 00:04:56,731\n是的我最近在大學校長會議給過一個演講我事後把演講的講稿提供給委員我們都希望能夠給科研人員有更多的一些彈性給予更多的空間這個平台能夠做好大環境做好是你剛剛第一句話沒錯對不對謝謝委員所以我們一起來努力我們提出了這樣子的問題我們看到了這樣的問題所以今天提出也會提出就代表要支持\n\n14\n00:04:58,252 --> 00:05:26,407\n會閒貨才會買貨嘛對不對好那中研院去年呢10月舉辦了一年一度的院區開放主題演說是未來世代的必修課能源與AI科技對吧還記得當時院長免利同學AI目前限制正式每一個人的一個機會希望未來世代勇於想像AI無法達成的事情將問題以及挑戰化為契機在去年7月中研院與AI辦公室要推動這一個\n\n15\n00:05:27,427 --> 00:05:44,782\nAIforOAS可不可以簡單介紹一下這是什麼這是我們希望在全院OASAS代表中央研究院的英文簡稱所以AIforOAS意思是說我們希望全院的人不論是你是研究人員你是研究助理或是你是行政人員大家都要\n\n16\n00:05:45,482 --> 00:06:01,101\n擁抱AI帶給我們的新契機大家都要適度的了解AI你或許沒辦法成為不應該期待你成為AI的專家但是你應該能夠用最新的AI技術來在你的研究上在你的行政上幫助你的日常業務\n\n17\n00:06:02,402 --> 00:06:26,898\n這樣子我講中研院也協力國科會推動深層式的AI相信院長也都知道去年獲得諾貝爾物理學獎的一個辛頓教授研究人工智慧領域他在2023年離開Google一直在致力於談論急於目前推出深層式人工智慧產品的一個危險請問我們所推動的深層式AI是否有辛頓教授所說的一個風險\n\n18\n00:06:27,999 --> 00:06:42,175\n因為當然這個AI當然免不了被誤用的話絕對是有風險所以我們一方面要極力開發另外一方面我們也要極力思考這它對人類文明對社會安定所造成的一個風險好謝謝那院長\n\n19\n00:06:43,416 --> 00:07:02,331\n中研院是否可以針對生成式AI所進行可能性的一個問題研究盤整並且具體的建議到教育部目前的中小學數位教學指引的3.0以及校長數位學習的領導指引畢竟教育部\n\n20\n00:07:02,611 --> 00:07:24,594\n不是所謂的研究機構AI目前科技是日新月異我們也希望在這個前面第一線的研究單位你們最了解能夠在這個跨部會上給予合作給予協助給予建議這個部分可以嗎我們協助給予建議的這是可以我不確定說眾議院的專家有在您講這方面是有特別的研究\n\n21\n00:07:26,016 --> 00:07:42,556\n因為我想這個AI有相關的一些人工智慧的產品所帶來的一些風險那剛剛你說不免俗有可能那在這個研究上如果有找到一些問題對於教育部中小學的數位教學指引3.0給予一個建議我覺得這個部分應該是你們做得到的\n\n22\n00:07:43,036 --> 00:08:07,912\n因為你們畢竟是高位在看這件事情我想後面也有一些長官在點頭那應該是可以認同我們不是找麻煩只是希望能夠讓這個東西更好謝謝委員提醒再來我想院長我很關心勞動權益的一個議題所以在去年預算審查的時候特別提出來政治所的徵才違法希望中委員要注意那你有掌握到嗎請政治所所長\n\n23\n00:08:10,031 --> 00:08:19,353\n我先請問一下院長回去有盤點所有的單位徵才資訊或工作相關的規定嗎有沒有發現其他問題有這請人事回答\n\n24\n00:08:20,857 --> 00:08:46,983\n委員好人事室主任周培芳是有發現問題嗎我們院裡面非常重視勞基法的相關規範也很重視勞動權益我先問一下兩位請問這一份中央研究院工讀生雇用管理規定PTT這裡分別掛在中研院的網站跟中研院的總務處網站上請問這一份還有沒有在使用應該掛著應該還有在使用吧\n\n25\n00:08:54,134 --> 00:09:02,209\n有沒有這個綜藝院還有在徵公讀生喔在人文社會科學聯合圖書館\n\n26\n00:09:04,534 --> 00:09:28,708\n我想應該是有在使用啦是的是的對吧好來我們來講一下工讀生的僱用契約書第三項工作時間的第三點甲方如應經費受限請求乙方延長工時服務時乙方同意以補休假來做方式的處理不令知己延長工時的酬金院長你覺得這句話有沒有問題有問題嗎\n\n27\n00:09:34,690 --> 00:09:34,831\n人事處\n\n28\n00:09:38,772 --> 00:09:57,428\n我們原則上可以跟就是工讀生要求補就是協商要補休但是補休如果沒有協商是有討論的空間沒有補休完的話還是會給加班費好但是在這一句上我覺得在用字顯示上我要先講院長這句話有問題因為加班費加班時加班費的請求權還沒有發生怎麼可以先要求要有拋棄\n\n29\n00:10:06,375 --> 00:10:16,829\n這一句話我覺得在實務上應該加完班後雇主才會去跟員工談能不能換補休這個既然委員提到務實上我們就談務實\n\n30\n00:10:18,567 --> 00:10:42,899\n每一個研究員都知道說自己手上經費有多少他加班費付不出來的時候就必須要能夠控制說有多少人升級加班我知道因為你們希望控制預算的使用並不會超支甚至付不出來但是我建議要修正因為討論的空間乾脆這一條就不要寫你們再去做導資這部分的協商回去研究一下看說這怎麼做比較好\n\n31\n00:10:43,379 --> 00:11:01,666\n第二如果工讀生僱用契約書要修正的話在第四項休假提及的性別工作平等法這部法律在2023年7月改為性別平等工作法建議一併修正沒事沒事不要說我們是雞蛋挑骨頭只是看到了這問題順帶提到\n\n32\n00:11:04,127 --> 00:11:23,800\n那再來在第六項職業災害及普通傷害的一個補助應該要加上2021年制定的勞工職業災害保險及保護法最後中研院整個中央研究院工讀生雇用管理規定這份檔案在中研院網站跟中研院的總務處網站上掛的內容不一樣\n\n33\n00:11:24,801 --> 00:11:48,334\n院長你看一下這兩份最後修正的日期都是中華民國102年7月26日總務置地1020505343號修正也提及本規定經院長核定後執行的修正時異同但是為什麼同一個修正日期的檔案在工作時間的規定上是有不一樣的寫法\n\n34\n00:11:48,934 --> 00:12:08,742\n中研院的官網入口乙方工作時間每日不超過8小時每兩週不超過84小時但是在中研院的總務處網站檔案乙方正常工作的時間每日不超過8小時每週不超過40小時我想這兩個說法寫法都不一樣\n\n35\n00:12:10,651 --> 00:12:32,996\n這兩個寫法都沒問題但是呢到底哪一個才是正確的檔案我不太懂工作時從雙週的84小時變成單週的40小時是民國105年才開始實施的而中研院這樣子的工作工讀生的雇用管理規定呢最新的修正是在民國102年我想自己偷改不用報院長核定\n\n36\n00:12:35,657 --> 00:12:58,416\n謝謝委員的提醒跟提示這部分我們會一併檢討讓他有一致所以我所找出的問題是事實吧對不對是我們會回來檢討是不是應該馬上更正是的我想剛剛還是回到了我們希望不管是未來的工途生科研的環境那整個勞動的一個產業甚至這個環境都能夠有所提升我想這些細節今天沒有責難\n\n37\n00:13:00,237 --> 00:13:09,051\n我們都是希望讓整個環境更好只是提出到我所看到的一個問題在研究的過程發現的這些問題希望你們修正院長可以嗎好謝謝好謝謝好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1310\t3292\t好 我們接下來請羅廷偉委員好 謝謝昭偉 有請院長好 有請廖院長\n21800\t46121\t好 院長好院長 國科會吳承文主委說過台灣經濟實力已經在世界20左右那可是幾十年的努力之下來連一個諾貝爾獎都沒有實在是很丟臉這是他說的那日本於1996年通過了科學技術基本法成立了科學技術委員會透過了保障科研的預算等方式那我們看到他們如此之重視\n46781\t72397\t那提高了日本的科學技術水準2001年修訂通過第二版的科學技術基本法明確指出50年要拿下30個諾貝爾獎那目前呢日本已經有29位諾貝爾獎得主其中有一位是團體的那台灣呢台灣土生土長唯一目前拿過諾貝爾獎是1986年的李遠哲我們前院長那最靠近最靠近諾貝爾獎的是2022年翁啟惠前院長\n75399\t89953\t那我想這兩位都來自中研院所以我想中研院讓我們有所期待那也希望在這樣的一個部分上院長你覺得提升一國的科研能力關鍵在於哪裡是政府的投資還不夠多嗎還需要更大量的預算嗎\n90373\t111326\t需要有很好的土壤很好的環境這個科研環境的創造才能夠吸引人才才能讓人才在無憂無慮的環境之下發揮他的創造力那希望能夠大家能夠給予支持給予鼓勵那跟這個國際一起競爭那我們要看到的是研究人員實際的貢獻對社會對學術方面的貢獻而不是單靠他的\n117030\t140142\t功成名就之後才說給他拍手因為他得諾貝爾獎我們在努力的過程當中我們要給予肯定給予支持給予鼓勵給予經費上的最大彈性當然給予支持上我們當然都希望能夠給予一些支持所以你的說法就是不要只是得獎那你也否認了就是吳承文主委所說的連一個諾貝爾獎得主都沒有實在很丟臉這樣的說法你不一定認同\n140942\t169515\t但是我想跟他講是說我們當然很希望說台灣有很多拿到很多世界第一拿到很多諾貝爾獎我們拿到世界冠軍這個也冠軍那個當然我們相信中研院現在所有的研究一定是希望社會能夠有所進步來幫忙做一些相關的研究我們都能夠知道但我們也希望讓世界看到台灣那目前我們現在最重要的問題是說我們現在一路走來台灣有很多的措施很多的政策頂大計畫\n170555\t177472\t高教生跟玉山計畫等等會不會跟這些計畫的資源去過度的分散你覺得有可能嗎\n180180\t208032\t這個很多問題最主要是我們在學研界每一個人的方向目標沒有定得很清楚這是最近一直在講的不可能在座任何人把目標定在得諾貝爾獎至少這個人文學者就不能拿所以我們要把目標定清楚我們為什麼要做研究為什麼這個研究重要能夠闡述得清楚爭取立法院的同意\n208832\t235100\t支持立法院也應該考量學術研究的特殊狀況那把跟政治性的跟一般機關的預算做分開的審查我們要的不僅是更多的資源我們要的是資源的彈性運用我們必須知道說我們眾院確實是拿了很多的資源但是不能用不好用是因為它之間沒有辦法留用很多譬如說設備費不能留用\n240225\t251500\t用人費不能留用等等的那加上最近有一些其他的限制這樣子我想跟你請教你剛剛有提到一些建議沒關係我都聽到如果能夠給予協助我們當然不讓我們都願意後續再有幫忙\n255885\t273548\t但是學術上的一個建議呢是不是你也能夠給一些大家更多的一些建議我們看到日本有良好的科學科研環境那科學研究人員能在自己的計畫和支配研究工作也不會因為一段時間內沒有研究成果而影響評價但台灣好像跟日本不太一樣\n273888\t296731\t是的我最近在大學校長會議給過一個演講我事後把演講的講稿提供給委員我們都希望能夠給科研人員有更多的一些彈性給予更多的空間這個平台能夠做好大環境做好是你剛剛第一句話沒錯對不對謝謝委員所以我們一起來努力我們提出了這樣子的問題我們看到了這樣的問題所以今天提出也會提出就代表要支持\n298252\t326407\t會閒貨才會買貨嘛對不對好那中研院去年呢10月舉辦了一年一度的院區開放主題演說是未來世代的必修課能源與AI科技對吧還記得當時院長免利同學AI目前限制正式每一個人的一個機會希望未來世代勇於想像AI無法達成的事情將問題以及挑戰化為契機在去年7月中研院與AI辦公室要推動這一個\n327427\t344782\tAI for OAS可不可以簡單介紹一下這是什麼這是我們希望在全院OASAS代表中央研究院的英文簡稱所以AI for OAS意思是說我們希望全院的人不論是你是研究人員你是研究助理或是你是行政人員大家都要\n345482\t361101\t擁抱AI帶給我們的新契機大家都要適度的了解AI你或許沒辦法成為不應該期待你成為AI的專家但是你應該能夠用最新的AI技術來在你的研究上在你的行政上幫助你的日常業務\n362402\t386898\t這樣子我講中研院也協力國科會推動深層式的AI相信院長也都知道去年獲得諾貝爾物理學獎的一個辛頓教授研究人工智慧領域他在2023年離開Google一直在致力於談論急於目前推出深層式人工智慧產品的一個危險請問我們所推動的深層式AI是否有辛頓教授所說的一個風險\n387999\t402175\t因為當然這個AI當然免不了被誤用的話絕對是有風險所以我們一方面要極力開發另外一方面我們也要極力思考這它對人類文明對社會安定所造成的一個風險好 謝謝那院長\n403416\t422331\t中研院是否可以針對生成式AI所進行可能性的一個問題研究盤整並且具體的建議到教育部目前的中小學數位教學指引的3.0以及校長數位學習的領導指引畢竟教育部\n422611\t444594\t不是所謂的研究機構AI目前科技是日新月異我們也希望在這個前面第一線的研究單位你們最了解能夠在這個跨部會上給予合作給予協助給予建議這個部分可以嗎我們協助給予建議的這是可以我不確定說眾議院的專家有在您講這方面是有特別的研究\n446016\t462556\t因為我想這個AI有相關的一些人工智慧的產品所帶來的一些風險那剛剛你說不免俗有可能那在這個研究上如果有找到一些問題對於教育部中小學的數位教學指引3.0給予一個建議我覺得這個部分應該是你們做得到的\n463036\t487912\t因為你們畢竟是高位在看這件事情我想後面也有一些長官在點頭那應該是可以認同我們不是找麻煩只是希望能夠讓這個東西更好謝謝委員提醒再來我想院長我很關心勞動權益的一個議題所以在去年預算審查的時候特別提出來政治所的徵才違法希望中委員要注意那你有掌握到嗎請政治所所長\n490031\t499353\t我先請問一下 院長回去有盤點所有的單位徵才資訊或工作相關的規定嗎有沒有發現其他問題有 這請人事回答\n500857\t526983\t委員好 人事室主任周培芳是有發現問題嗎我們院裡面非常重視勞基法的相關規範也很重視勞動權益我先問一下兩位請問這一份中央研究院工讀生雇用管理規定PTT這裡分別掛在中研院的網站跟中研院的總務處網站上請問這一份還有沒有在使用應該掛著應該還有在使用吧\n534134\t542209\t有沒有這個綜藝院還有在徵公讀生喔在人文社會科學聯合圖書館\n544534\t568708\t我想應該是有在使用啦是的是的對吧好來我們來講一下工讀生的僱用契約書第三項工作時間的第三點甲方如應經費受限請求乙方延長工時服務時乙方同意以補休假來做方式的處理不令知己延長工時的酬金院長你覺得這句話有沒有問題有問題嗎\n574690\t574831\t人事處\n578772\t597428\t我們原則上可以跟就是工讀生要求補就是協商要補休但是補休如果沒有協商是有討論的空間沒有補休完的話還是會給加班費好但是在這一句上我覺得在用字顯示上我要先講院長這句話有問題因為加班費加班時加班費的請求權還沒有發生怎麼可以先要求要有拋棄\n606375\t616829\t這一句話我覺得在實務上應該加完班後雇主才會去跟員工談能不能換補休這個既然委員提到務實上我們就談務實\n618567\t642899\t每一個研究員都知道說自己手上經費有多少他加班費付不出來的時候就必須要能夠控制說有多少人升級加班我知道因為你們希望控制預算的使用並不會超支甚至付不出來但是我建議要修正因為討論的空間乾脆這一條就不要寫你們再去做導資這部分的協商回去研究一下看說這怎麼做比較好\n643379\t661666\t第二如果工讀生僱用契約書要修正的話在第四項休假提及的性別工作平等法這部法律在2023年7月改為性別平等工作法建議一併修正沒事沒事不要說我們是雞蛋挑骨頭只是看到了這問題順帶提到\n664127\t683800\t那再來在第六項職業災害及普通傷害的一個補助應該要加上2021年制定的勞工職業災害保險及保護法最後中研院整個中央研究院工讀生雇用管理規定這份檔案在中研院網站跟中研院的總務處網站上掛的內容不一樣\n684801\t708334\t院長你看一下這兩份最後修正的日期都是中華民國102年7月26日總務置地1020505343號修正也提及本規定經院長核定後執行的修正時異同但是為什麼同一個修正日期的檔案在工作時間的規定上是有不一樣的寫法\n708934\t728742\t中研院的官網入口乙方工作時間每日不超過8小時每兩週不超過84小時但是在中研院的總務處網站檔案乙方正常工作的時間每日不超過8小時每週不超過40小時我想這兩個說法寫法都不一樣\n730651\t752996\t這兩個寫法都沒問題但是呢到底哪一個才是正確的檔案我不太懂工作時從雙週的84小時變成單週的40小時是民國105年才開始實施的而中研院這樣子的工作工讀生的雇用管理規定呢最新的修正是在民國102年我想自己偷改不用報院長核定\n755657\t778416\t謝謝委員的提醒跟提示這部分我們會一併檢討讓他有一致所以我所找出的問題是事實吧對不對是我們會回來檢討是不是應該馬上更正是的我想剛剛還是回到了我們希望不管是未來的工途生科研的環境那整個勞動的一個產業甚至這個環境都能夠有所提升我想這些細節今天沒有責難\n780237\t789051\t我們都是希望讓整個環境更好只是提出到我所看到的一個問題在研究的過程發現的這些問題希望你們修正院長可以嗎好 謝謝好 謝謝好 謝謝\n","txt":"好 我們接下來請羅廷偉委員好 謝謝昭偉 有請院長好 有請廖院長\n好 院長好院長 國科會吳承文主委說過台灣經濟實力已經在世界20左右那可是幾十年的努力之下來連一個諾貝爾獎都沒有實在是很丟臉這是他說的那日本於1996年通過了科學技術基本法成立了科學技術委員會透過了保障科研的預算等方式那我們看到他們如此之重視\n那提高了日本的科學技術水準2001年修訂通過第二版的科學技術基本法明確指出50年要拿下30個諾貝爾獎那目前呢日本已經有29位諾貝爾獎得主其中有一位是團體的那台灣呢台灣土生土長唯一目前拿過諾貝爾獎是1986年的李遠哲我們前院長那最靠近最靠近諾貝爾獎的是2022年翁啟惠前院長\n那我想這兩位都來自中研院所以我想中研院讓我們有所期待那也希望在這樣的一個部分上院長你覺得提升一國的科研能力關鍵在於哪裡是政府的投資還不夠多嗎還需要更大量的預算嗎\n需要有很好的土壤很好的環境這個科研環境的創造才能夠吸引人才才能讓人才在無憂無慮的環境之下發揮他的創造力那希望能夠大家能夠給予支持給予鼓勵那跟這個國際一起競爭那我們要看到的是研究人員實際的貢獻對社會對學術方面的貢獻而不是單靠他的\n功成名就之後才說給他拍手因為他得諾貝爾獎我們在努力的過程當中我們要給予肯定給予支持給予鼓勵給予經費上的最大彈性當然給予支持上我們當然都希望能夠給予一些支持所以你的說法就是不要只是得獎那你也否認了就是吳承文主委所說的連一個諾貝爾獎得主都沒有實在很丟臉這樣的說法你不一定認同\n但是我想跟他講是說我們當然很希望說台灣有很多拿到很多世界第一拿到很多諾貝爾獎我們拿到世界冠軍這個也冠軍那個當然我們相信中研院現在所有的研究一定是希望社會能夠有所進步來幫忙做一些相關的研究我們都能夠知道但我們也希望讓世界看到台灣那目前我們現在最重要的問題是說我們現在一路走來台灣有很多的措施很多的政策頂大計畫\n高教生跟玉山計畫等等會不會跟這些計畫的資源去過度的分散你覺得有可能嗎\n這個很多問題最主要是我們在學研界每一個人的方向目標沒有定得很清楚這是最近一直在講的不可能在座任何人把目標定在得諾貝爾獎至少這個人文學者就不能拿所以我們要把目標定清楚我們為什麼要做研究為什麼這個研究重要能夠闡述得清楚爭取立法院的同意\n支持立法院也應該考量學術研究的特殊狀況那把跟政治性的跟一般機關的預算做分開的審查我們要的不僅是更多的資源我們要的是資源的彈性運用我們必須知道說我們眾院確實是拿了很多的資源但是不能用不好用是因為它之間沒有辦法留用很多譬如說設備費不能留用\n用人費不能留用等等的那加上最近有一些其他的限制這樣子我想跟你請教你剛剛有提到一些建議沒關係我都聽到如果能夠給予協助我們當然不讓我們都願意後續再有幫忙\n但是學術上的一個建議呢是不是你也能夠給一些大家更多的一些建議我們看到日本有良好的科學科研環境那科學研究人員能在自己的計畫和支配研究工作也不會因為一段時間內沒有研究成果而影響評價但台灣好像跟日本不太一樣\n是的我最近在大學校長會議給過一個演講我事後把演講的講稿提供給委員我們都希望能夠給科研人員有更多的一些彈性給予更多的空間這個平台能夠做好大環境做好是你剛剛第一句話沒錯對不對謝謝委員所以我們一起來努力我們提出了這樣子的問題我們看到了這樣的問題所以今天提出也會提出就代表要支持\n會閒貨才會買貨嘛對不對好那中研院去年呢10月舉辦了一年一度的院區開放主題演說是未來世代的必修課能源與AI科技對吧還記得當時院長免利同學AI目前限制正式每一個人的一個機會希望未來世代勇於想像AI無法達成的事情將問題以及挑戰化為契機在去年7月中研院與AI辦公室要推動這一個\nAI for OAS可不可以簡單介紹一下這是什麼這是我們希望在全院OASAS代表中央研究院的英文簡稱所以AI for OAS意思是說我們希望全院的人不論是你是研究人員你是研究助理或是你是行政人員大家都要\n擁抱AI帶給我們的新契機大家都要適度的了解AI你或許沒辦法成為不應該期待你成為AI的專家但是你應該能夠用最新的AI技術來在你的研究上在你的行政上幫助你的日常業務\n這樣子我講中研院也協力國科會推動深層式的AI相信院長也都知道去年獲得諾貝爾物理學獎的一個辛頓教授研究人工智慧領域他在2023年離開Google一直在致力於談論急於目前推出深層式人工智慧產品的一個危險請問我們所推動的深層式AI是否有辛頓教授所說的一個風險\n因為當然這個AI當然免不了被誤用的話絕對是有風險所以我們一方面要極力開發另外一方面我們也要極力思考這它對人類文明對社會安定所造成的一個風險好 謝謝那院長\n中研院是否可以針對生成式AI所進行可能性的一個問題研究盤整並且具體的建議到教育部目前的中小學數位教學指引的3.0以及校長數位學習的領導指引畢竟教育部\n不是所謂的研究機構AI目前科技是日新月異我們也希望在這個前面第一線的研究單位你們最了解能夠在這個跨部會上給予合作給予協助給予建議這個部分可以嗎我們協助給予建議的這是可以我不確定說眾議院的專家有在您講這方面是有特別的研究\n因為我想這個AI有相關的一些人工智慧的產品所帶來的一些風險那剛剛你說不免俗有可能那在這個研究上如果有找到一些問題對於教育部中小學的數位教學指引3.0給予一個建議我覺得這個部分應該是你們做得到的\n因為你們畢竟是高位在看這件事情我想後面也有一些長官在點頭那應該是可以認同我們不是找麻煩只是希望能夠讓這個東西更好謝謝委員提醒再來我想院長我很關心勞動權益的一個議題所以在去年預算審查的時候特別提出來政治所的徵才違法希望中委員要注意那你有掌握到嗎請政治所所長\n我先請問一下 院長回去有盤點所有的單位徵才資訊或工作相關的規定嗎有沒有發現其他問題有 這請人事回答\n委員好 人事室主任周培芳是有發現問題嗎我們院裡面非常重視勞基法的相關規範也很重視勞動權益我先問一下兩位請問這一份中央研究院工讀生雇用管理規定PTT這裡分別掛在中研院的網站跟中研院的總務處網站上請問這一份還有沒有在使用應該掛著應該還有在使用吧\n有沒有這個綜藝院還有在徵公讀生喔在人文社會科學聯合圖書館\n我想應該是有在使用啦是的是的對吧好來我們來講一下工讀生的僱用契約書第三項工作時間的第三點甲方如應經費受限請求乙方延長工時服務時乙方同意以補休假來做方式的處理不令知己延長工時的酬金院長你覺得這句話有沒有問題有問題嗎\n人事處\n我們原則上可以跟就是工讀生要求補就是協商要補休但是補休如果沒有協商是有討論的空間沒有補休完的話還是會給加班費好但是在這一句上我覺得在用字顯示上我要先講院長這句話有問題因為加班費加班時加班費的請求權還沒有發生怎麼可以先要求要有拋棄\n這一句話我覺得在實務上應該加完班後雇主才會去跟員工談能不能換補休這個既然委員提到務實上我們就談務實\n每一個研究員都知道說自己手上經費有多少他加班費付不出來的時候就必須要能夠控制說有多少人升級加班我知道因為你們希望控制預算的使用並不會超支甚至付不出來但是我建議要修正因為討論的空間乾脆這一條就不要寫你們再去做導資這部分的協商回去研究一下看說這怎麼做比較好\n第二如果工讀生僱用契約書要修正的話在第四項休假提及的性別工作平等法這部法律在2023年7月改為性別平等工作法建議一併修正沒事沒事不要說我們是雞蛋挑骨頭只是看到了這問題順帶提到\n那再來在第六項職業災害及普通傷害的一個補助應該要加上2021年制定的勞工職業災害保險及保護法最後中研院整個中央研究院工讀生雇用管理規定這份檔案在中研院網站跟中研院的總務處網站上掛的內容不一樣\n院長你看一下這兩份最後修正的日期都是中華民國102年7月26日總務置地1020505343號修正也提及本規定經院長核定後執行的修正時異同但是為什麼同一個修正日期的檔案在工作時間的規定上是有不一樣的寫法\n中研院的官網入口乙方工作時間每日不超過8小時每兩週不超過84小時但是在中研院的總務處網站檔案乙方正常工作的時間每日不超過8小時每週不超過40小時我想這兩個說法寫法都不一樣\n這兩個寫法都沒問題但是呢到底哪一個才是正確的檔案我不太懂工作時從雙週的84小時變成單週的40小時是民國105年才開始實施的而中研院這樣子的工作工讀生的雇用管理規定呢最新的修正是在民國102年我想自己偷改不用報院長核定\n謝謝委員的提醒跟提示這部分我們會一併檢討讓他有一致所以我所找出的問題是事實吧對不對是我們會回來檢討是不是應該馬上更正是的我想剛剛還是回到了我們希望不管是未來的工途生科研的環境那整個勞動的一個產業甚至這個環境都能夠有所提升我想這些細節今天沒有責難\n我們都是希望讓整個環境更好只是提出到我所看到的一個問題在研究的過程發現的這些問題希望你們修正院長可以嗎好 謝謝好 謝謝好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.310 --> 00:03.292\n好我們接下來請羅廷偉委員好謝謝昭偉有請院長好有請廖院長\n\n00:21.800 --> 00:46.121\n好院長好院長國科會吳承文主委說過台灣經濟實力已經在世界20左右那可是幾十年的努力之下來連一個諾貝爾獎都沒有實在是很丟臉這是他說的那日本於1996年通過了科學技術基本法成立了科學技術委員會透過了保障科研的預算等方式那我們看到他們如此之重視\n\n00:46.781 --> 01:12.397\n那提高了日本的科學技術水準2001年修訂通過第二版的科學技術基本法明確指出50年要拿下30個諾貝爾獎那目前呢日本已經有29位諾貝爾獎得主其中有一位是團體的那台灣呢台灣土生土長唯一目前拿過諾貝爾獎是1986年的李遠哲我們前院長那最靠近最靠近諾貝爾獎的是2022年翁啟惠前院長\n\n01:15.399 --> 01:29.953\n那我想這兩位都來自中研院所以我想中研院讓我們有所期待那也希望在這樣的一個部分上院長你覺得提升一國的科研能力關鍵在於哪裡是政府的投資還不夠多嗎還需要更大量的預算嗎\n\n01:30.373 --> 01:51.326\n需要有很好的土壤很好的環境這個科研環境的創造才能夠吸引人才才能讓人才在無憂無慮的環境之下發揮他的創造力那希望能夠大家能夠給予支持給予鼓勵那跟這個國際一起競爭那我們要看到的是研究人員實際的貢獻對社會對學術方面的貢獻而不是單靠他的\n\n01:57.030 --> 02:20.142\n功成名就之後才說給他拍手因為他得諾貝爾獎我們在努力的過程當中我們要給予肯定給予支持給予鼓勵給予經費上的最大彈性當然給予支持上我們當然都希望能夠給予一些支持所以你的說法就是不要只是得獎那你也否認了就是吳承文主委所說的連一個諾貝爾獎得主都沒有實在很丟臉這樣的說法你不一定認同\n\n02:20.942 --> 02:49.515\n但是我想跟他講是說我們當然很希望說台灣有很多拿到很多世界第一拿到很多諾貝爾獎我們拿到世界冠軍這個也冠軍那個當然我們相信中研院現在所有的研究一定是希望社會能夠有所進步來幫忙做一些相關的研究我們都能夠知道但我們也希望讓世界看到台灣那目前我們現在最重要的問題是說我們現在一路走來台灣有很多的措施很多的政策頂大計畫\n\n02:50.555 --> 02:57.472\n高教生跟玉山計畫等等會不會跟這些計畫的資源去過度的分散你覺得有可能嗎\n\n03:00.180 --> 03:28.032\n這個很多問題最主要是我們在學研界每一個人的方向目標沒有定得很清楚這是最近一直在講的不可能在座任何人把目標定在得諾貝爾獎至少這個人文學者就不能拿所以我們要把目標定清楚我們為什麼要做研究為什麼這個研究重要能夠闡述得清楚爭取立法院的同意\n\n03:28.832 --> 03:55.100\n支持立法院也應該考量學術研究的特殊狀況那把跟政治性的跟一般機關的預算做分開的審查我們要的不僅是更多的資源我們要的是資源的彈性運用我們必須知道說我們眾院確實是拿了很多的資源但是不能用不好用是因為它之間沒有辦法留用很多譬如說設備費不能留用\n\n04:00.225 --> 04:11.500\n用人費不能留用等等的那加上最近有一些其他的限制這樣子我想跟你請教你剛剛有提到一些建議沒關係我都聽到如果能夠給予協助我們當然不讓我們都願意後續再有幫忙\n\n04:15.885 --> 04:33.548\n但是學術上的一個建議呢是不是你也能夠給一些大家更多的一些建議我們看到日本有良好的科學科研環境那科學研究人員能在自己的計畫和支配研究工作也不會因為一段時間內沒有研究成果而影響評價但台灣好像跟日本不太一樣\n\n04:33.888 --> 04:56.731\n是的我最近在大學校長會議給過一個演講我事後把演講的講稿提供給委員我們都希望能夠給科研人員有更多的一些彈性給予更多的空間這個平台能夠做好大環境做好是你剛剛第一句話沒錯對不對謝謝委員所以我們一起來努力我們提出了這樣子的問題我們看到了這樣的問題所以今天提出也會提出就代表要支持\n\n04:58.252 --> 05:26.407\n會閒貨才會買貨嘛對不對好那中研院去年呢10月舉辦了一年一度的院區開放主題演說是未來世代的必修課能源與AI科技對吧還記得當時院長免利同學AI目前限制正式每一個人的一個機會希望未來世代勇於想像AI無法達成的事情將問題以及挑戰化為契機在去年7月中研院與AI辦公室要推動這一個\n\n05:27.427 --> 05:44.782\nAIforOAS可不可以簡單介紹一下這是什麼這是我們希望在全院OASAS代表中央研究院的英文簡稱所以AIforOAS意思是說我們希望全院的人不論是你是研究人員你是研究助理或是你是行政人員大家都要\n\n05:45.482 --> 06:01.101\n擁抱AI帶給我們的新契機大家都要適度的了解AI你或許沒辦法成為不應該期待你成為AI的專家但是你應該能夠用最新的AI技術來在你的研究上在你的行政上幫助你的日常業務\n\n06:02.402 --> 06:26.898\n這樣子我講中研院也協力國科會推動深層式的AI相信院長也都知道去年獲得諾貝爾物理學獎的一個辛頓教授研究人工智慧領域他在2023年離開Google一直在致力於談論急於目前推出深層式人工智慧產品的一個危險請問我們所推動的深層式AI是否有辛頓教授所說的一個風險\n\n06:27.999 --> 06:42.175\n因為當然這個AI當然免不了被誤用的話絕對是有風險所以我們一方面要極力開發另外一方面我們也要極力思考這它對人類文明對社會安定所造成的一個風險好謝謝那院長\n\n06:43.416 --> 07:02.331\n中研院是否可以針對生成式AI所進行可能性的一個問題研究盤整並且具體的建議到教育部目前的中小學數位教學指引的3.0以及校長數位學習的領導指引畢竟教育部\n\n07:02.611 --> 07:24.594\n不是所謂的研究機構AI目前科技是日新月異我們也希望在這個前面第一線的研究單位你們最了解能夠在這個跨部會上給予合作給予協助給予建議這個部分可以嗎我們協助給予建議的這是可以我不確定說眾議院的專家有在您講這方面是有特別的研究\n\n07:26.016 --> 07:42.556\n因為我想這個AI有相關的一些人工智慧的產品所帶來的一些風險那剛剛你說不免俗有可能那在這個研究上如果有找到一些問題對於教育部中小學的數位教學指引3.0給予一個建議我覺得這個部分應該是你們做得到的\n\n07:43.036 --> 08:07.912\n因為你們畢竟是高位在看這件事情我想後面也有一些長官在點頭那應該是可以認同我們不是找麻煩只是希望能夠讓這個東西更好謝謝委員提醒再來我想院長我很關心勞動權益的一個議題所以在去年預算審查的時候特別提出來政治所的徵才違法希望中委員要注意那你有掌握到嗎請政治所所長\n\n08:10.031 --> 08:19.353\n我先請問一下院長回去有盤點所有的單位徵才資訊或工作相關的規定嗎有沒有發現其他問題有這請人事回答\n\n08:20.857 --> 08:46.983\n委員好人事室主任周培芳是有發現問題嗎我們院裡面非常重視勞基法的相關規範也很重視勞動權益我先問一下兩位請問這一份中央研究院工讀生雇用管理規定PTT這裡分別掛在中研院的網站跟中研院的總務處網站上請問這一份還有沒有在使用應該掛著應該還有在使用吧\n\n08:54.134 --> 09:02.209\n有沒有這個綜藝院還有在徵公讀生喔在人文社會科學聯合圖書館\n\n09:04.534 --> 09:28.708\n我想應該是有在使用啦是的是的對吧好來我們來講一下工讀生的僱用契約書第三項工作時間的第三點甲方如應經費受限請求乙方延長工時服務時乙方同意以補休假來做方式的處理不令知己延長工時的酬金院長你覺得這句話有沒有問題有問題嗎\n\n09:34.690 --> 09:34.831\n人事處\n\n09:38.772 --> 09:57.428\n我們原則上可以跟就是工讀生要求補就是協商要補休但是補休如果沒有協商是有討論的空間沒有補休完的話還是會給加班費好但是在這一句上我覺得在用字顯示上我要先講院長這句話有問題因為加班費加班時加班費的請求權還沒有發生怎麼可以先要求要有拋棄\n\n10:06.375 --> 10:16.829\n這一句話我覺得在實務上應該加完班後雇主才會去跟員工談能不能換補休這個既然委員提到務實上我們就談務實\n\n10:18.567 --> 10:42.899\n每一個研究員都知道說自己手上經費有多少他加班費付不出來的時候就必須要能夠控制說有多少人升級加班我知道因為你們希望控制預算的使用並不會超支甚至付不出來但是我建議要修正因為討論的空間乾脆這一條就不要寫你們再去做導資這部分的協商回去研究一下看說這怎麼做比較好\n\n10:43.379 --> 11:01.666\n第二如果工讀生僱用契約書要修正的話在第四項休假提及的性別工作平等法這部法律在2023年7月改為性別平等工作法建議一併修正沒事沒事不要說我們是雞蛋挑骨頭只是看到了這問題順帶提到\n\n11:04.127 --> 11:23.800\n那再來在第六項職業災害及普通傷害的一個補助應該要加上2021年制定的勞工職業災害保險及保護法最後中研院整個中央研究院工讀生雇用管理規定這份檔案在中研院網站跟中研院的總務處網站上掛的內容不一樣\n\n11:24.801 --> 11:48.334\n院長你看一下這兩份最後修正的日期都是中華民國102年7月26日總務置地1020505343號修正也提及本規定經院長核定後執行的修正時異同但是為什麼同一個修正日期的檔案在工作時間的規定上是有不一樣的寫法\n\n11:48.934 --> 12:08.742\n中研院的官網入口乙方工作時間每日不超過8小時每兩週不超過84小時但是在中研院的總務處網站檔案乙方正常工作的時間每日不超過8小時每週不超過40小時我想這兩個說法寫法都不一樣\n\n12:10.651 --> 12:32.996\n這兩個寫法都沒問題但是呢到底哪一個才是正確的檔案我不太懂工作時從雙週的84小時變成單週的40小時是民國105年才開始實施的而中研院這樣子的工作工讀生的雇用管理規定呢最新的修正是在民國102年我想自己偷改不用報院長核定\n\n12:35.657 --> 12:58.416\n謝謝委員的提醒跟提示這部分我們會一併檢討讓他有一致所以我所找出的問題是事實吧對不對是我們會回來檢討是不是應該馬上更正是的我想剛剛還是回到了我們希望不管是未來的工途生科研的環境那整個勞動的一個產業甚至這個環境都能夠有所提升我想這些細節今天沒有責難\n\n13:00.237 --> 13:09.051\n我們都是希望讓整個環境更好只是提出到我所看到的一個問題在研究的過程發現的這些問題希望你們修正院長可以嗎好謝謝好謝謝好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.31,"end":3.292,"text":"好 我們接下來請羅廷偉委員好 謝謝昭偉 有請院長好 有請廖院長"},{"start":21.8,"end":46.121,"text":"好 院長好院長 國科會吳承文主委說過台灣經濟實力已經在世界20左右那可是幾十年的努力之下來連一個諾貝爾獎都沒有實在是很丟臉這是他說的那日本於1996年通過了科學技術基本法成立了科學技術委員會透過了保障科研的預算等方式那我們看到他們如此之重視"},{"start":46.781,"end":72.397,"text":"那提高了日本的科學技術水準2001年修訂通過第二版的科學技術基本法明確指出50年要拿下30個諾貝爾獎那目前呢日本已經有29位諾貝爾獎得主其中有一位是團體的那台灣呢台灣土生土長唯一目前拿過諾貝爾獎是1986年的李遠哲我們前院長那最靠近最靠近諾貝爾獎的是2022年翁啟惠前院長"},{"start":75.399,"end":89.953,"text":"那我想這兩位都來自中研院所以我想中研院讓我們有所期待那也希望在這樣的一個部分上院長你覺得提升一國的科研能力關鍵在於哪裡是政府的投資還不夠多嗎還需要更大量的預算嗎"},{"start":90.373,"end":111.326,"text":"需要有很好的土壤很好的環境這個科研環境的創造才能夠吸引人才才能讓人才在無憂無慮的環境之下發揮他的創造力那希望能夠大家能夠給予支持給予鼓勵那跟這個國際一起競爭那我們要看到的是研究人員實際的貢獻對社會對學術方面的貢獻而不是單靠他的"},{"start":117.03,"end":140.142,"text":"功成名就之後才說給他拍手因為他得諾貝爾獎我們在努力的過程當中我們要給予肯定給予支持給予鼓勵給予經費上的最大彈性當然給予支持上我們當然都希望能夠給予一些支持所以你的說法就是不要只是得獎那你也否認了就是吳承文主委所說的連一個諾貝爾獎得主都沒有實在很丟臉這樣的說法你不一定認同"},{"start":140.942,"end":169.515,"text":"但是我想跟他講是說我們當然很希望說台灣有很多拿到很多世界第一拿到很多諾貝爾獎我們拿到世界冠軍這個也冠軍那個當然我們相信中研院現在所有的研究一定是希望社會能夠有所進步來幫忙做一些相關的研究我們都能夠知道但我們也希望讓世界看到台灣那目前我們現在最重要的問題是說我們現在一路走來台灣有很多的措施很多的政策頂大計畫"},{"start":170.555,"end":177.472,"text":"高教生跟玉山計畫等等會不會跟這些計畫的資源去過度的分散你覺得有可能嗎"},{"start":180.18,"end":208.032,"text":"這個很多問題最主要是我們在學研界每一個人的方向目標沒有定得很清楚這是最近一直在講的不可能在座任何人把目標定在得諾貝爾獎至少這個人文學者就不能拿所以我們要把目標定清楚我們為什麼要做研究為什麼這個研究重要能夠闡述得清楚爭取立法院的同意"},{"start":208.832,"end":235.1,"text":"支持立法院也應該考量學術研究的特殊狀況那把跟政治性的跟一般機關的預算做分開的審查我們要的不僅是更多的資源我們要的是資源的彈性運用我們必須知道說我們眾院確實是拿了很多的資源但是不能用不好用是因為它之間沒有辦法留用很多譬如說設備費不能留用"},{"start":240.225,"end":251.5,"text":"用人費不能留用等等的那加上最近有一些其他的限制這樣子我想跟你請教你剛剛有提到一些建議沒關係我都聽到如果能夠給予協助我們當然不讓我們都願意後續再有幫忙"},{"start":255.885,"end":273.548,"text":"但是學術上的一個建議呢是不是你也能夠給一些大家更多的一些建議我們看到日本有良好的科學科研環境那科學研究人員能在自己的計畫和支配研究工作也不會因為一段時間內沒有研究成果而影響評價但台灣好像跟日本不太一樣"},{"start":273.888,"end":296.731,"text":"是的我最近在大學校長會議給過一個演講我事後把演講的講稿提供給委員我們都希望能夠給科研人員有更多的一些彈性給予更多的空間這個平台能夠做好大環境做好是你剛剛第一句話沒錯對不對謝謝委員所以我們一起來努力我們提出了這樣子的問題我們看到了這樣的問題所以今天提出也會提出就代表要支持"},{"start":298.252,"end":326.407,"text":"會閒貨才會買貨嘛對不對好那中研院去年呢10月舉辦了一年一度的院區開放主題演說是未來世代的必修課能源與AI科技對吧還記得當時院長免利同學AI目前限制正式每一個人的一個機會希望未來世代勇於想像AI無法達成的事情將問題以及挑戰化為契機在去年7月中研院與AI辦公室要推動這一個"},{"start":327.427,"end":344.782,"text":"AI for OAS可不可以簡單介紹一下這是什麼這是我們希望在全院OASAS代表中央研究院的英文簡稱所以AI for OAS意思是說我們希望全院的人不論是你是研究人員你是研究助理或是你是行政人員大家都要"},{"start":345.482,"end":361.101,"text":"擁抱AI帶給我們的新契機大家都要適度的了解AI你或許沒辦法成為不應該期待你成為AI的專家但是你應該能夠用最新的AI技術來在你的研究上在你的行政上幫助你的日常業務"},{"start":362.402,"end":386.898,"text":"這樣子我講中研院也協力國科會推動深層式的AI相信院長也都知道去年獲得諾貝爾物理學獎的一個辛頓教授研究人工智慧領域他在2023年離開Google一直在致力於談論急於目前推出深層式人工智慧產品的一個危險請問我們所推動的深層式AI是否有辛頓教授所說的一個風險"},{"start":387.999,"end":402.175,"text":"因為當然這個AI當然免不了被誤用的話絕對是有風險所以我們一方面要極力開發另外一方面我們也要極力思考這它對人類文明對社會安定所造成的一個風險好 謝謝那院長"},{"start":403.416,"end":422.331,"text":"中研院是否可以針對生成式AI所進行可能性的一個問題研究盤整並且具體的建議到教育部目前的中小學數位教學指引的3.0以及校長數位學習的領導指引畢竟教育部"},{"start":422.611,"end":444.594,"text":"不是所謂的研究機構AI目前科技是日新月異我們也希望在這個前面第一線的研究單位你們最了解能夠在這個跨部會上給予合作給予協助給予建議這個部分可以嗎我們協助給予建議的這是可以我不確定說眾議院的專家有在您講這方面是有特別的研究"},{"start":446.016,"end":462.556,"text":"因為我想這個AI有相關的一些人工智慧的產品所帶來的一些風險那剛剛你說不免俗有可能那在這個研究上如果有找到一些問題對於教育部中小學的數位教學指引3.0給予一個建議我覺得這個部分應該是你們做得到的"},{"start":463.036,"end":487.912,"text":"因為你們畢竟是高位在看這件事情我想後面也有一些長官在點頭那應該是可以認同我們不是找麻煩只是希望能夠讓這個東西更好謝謝委員提醒再來我想院長我很關心勞動權益的一個議題所以在去年預算審查的時候特別提出來政治所的徵才違法希望中委員要注意那你有掌握到嗎請政治所所長"},{"start":490.031,"end":499.353,"text":"我先請問一下 院長回去有盤點所有的單位徵才資訊或工作相關的規定嗎有沒有發現其他問題有 這請人事回答"},{"start":500.857,"end":526.983,"text":"委員好 人事室主任周培芳是有發現問題嗎我們院裡面非常重視勞基法的相關規範也很重視勞動權益我先問一下兩位請問這一份中央研究院工讀生雇用管理規定PTT這裡分別掛在中研院的網站跟中研院的總務處網站上請問這一份還有沒有在使用應該掛著應該還有在使用吧"},{"start":534.134,"end":542.209,"text":"有沒有這個綜藝院還有在徵公讀生喔在人文社會科學聯合圖書館"},{"start":544.534,"end":568.708,"text":"我想應該是有在使用啦是的是的對吧好來我們來講一下工讀生的僱用契約書第三項工作時間的第三點甲方如應經費受限請求乙方延長工時服務時乙方同意以補休假來做方式的處理不令知己延長工時的酬金院長你覺得這句話有沒有問題有問題嗎"},{"start":574.69,"end":574.831,"text":"人事處"},{"start":578.772,"end":597.428,"text":"我們原則上可以跟就是工讀生要求補就是協商要補休但是補休如果沒有協商是有討論的空間沒有補休完的話還是會給加班費好但是在這一句上我覺得在用字顯示上我要先講院長這句話有問題因為加班費加班時加班費的請求權還沒有發生怎麼可以先要求要有拋棄"},{"start":606.375,"end":616.829,"text":"這一句話我覺得在實務上應該加完班後雇主才會去跟員工談能不能換補休這個既然委員提到務實上我們就談務實"},{"start":618.567,"end":642.899,"text":"每一個研究員都知道說自己手上經費有多少他加班費付不出來的時候就必須要能夠控制說有多少人升級加班我知道因為你們希望控制預算的使用並不會超支甚至付不出來但是我建議要修正因為討論的空間乾脆這一條就不要寫你們再去做導資這部分的協商回去研究一下看說這怎麼做比較好"},{"start":643.379,"end":661.666,"text":"第二如果工讀生僱用契約書要修正的話在第四項休假提及的性別工作平等法這部法律在2023年7月改為性別平等工作法建議一併修正沒事沒事不要說我們是雞蛋挑骨頭只是看到了這問題順帶提到"},{"start":664.127,"end":683.8,"text":"那再來在第六項職業災害及普通傷害的一個補助應該要加上2021年制定的勞工職業災害保險及保護法最後中研院整個中央研究院工讀生雇用管理規定這份檔案在中研院網站跟中研院的總務處網站上掛的內容不一樣"},{"start":684.801,"end":708.334,"text":"院長你看一下這兩份最後修正的日期都是中華民國102年7月26日總務置地1020505343號修正也提及本規定經院長核定後執行的修正時異同但是為什麼同一個修正日期的檔案在工作時間的規定上是有不一樣的寫法"},{"start":708.934,"end":728.742,"text":"中研院的官網入口乙方工作時間每日不超過8小時每兩週不超過84小時但是在中研院的總務處網站檔案乙方正常工作的時間每日不超過8小時每週不超過40小時我想這兩個說法寫法都不一樣"},{"start":730.651,"end":752.996,"text":"這兩個寫法都沒問題但是呢到底哪一個才是正確的檔案我不太懂工作時從雙週的84小時變成單週的40小時是民國105年才開始實施的而中研院這樣子的工作工讀生的雇用管理規定呢最新的修正是在民國102年我想自己偷改不用報院長核定"},{"start":755.657,"end":778.416,"text":"謝謝委員的提醒跟提示這部分我們會一併檢討讓他有一致所以我所找出的問題是事實吧對不對是我們會回來檢討是不是應該馬上更正是的我想剛剛還是回到了我們希望不管是未來的工途生科研的環境那整個勞動的一個產業甚至這個環境都能夠有所提升我想這些細節今天沒有責難"},{"start":780.237,"end":789.051,"text":"我們都是希望讓整個環境更好只是提出到我所看到的一個問題在研究的過程發現的這些問題希望你們修正院長可以嗎好 謝謝好 謝謝好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":786,"blocks":[["羅委員廷瑋：（11時51分）謝謝召委，有請院長。"],["主席：有請廖院長。"],["廖院長俊智：羅委員好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：院長好。院長，國科會吳誠文主委說過，臺灣經濟實力已經在世界20名左右，可是幾十年的努力下來，連一個諾貝爾獎都沒有，實在是很丟臉。這是他說的。日本於1996年通過了科學技術基本法，成立了科學技術委員會，透過了保障科研的預算等方式，我們看到他們如此之重視，提高了日本的科學技術水準。2001年修訂通過第二版的科學技術基本法，明確指出50年要拿下30個諾貝爾獎，目前日本已經有29位諾貝爾獎得主，其中有一位是團體，那臺灣呢？臺灣土生土長的人，目前唯一拿過諾貝爾獎的是1986年的李遠哲，也是中研院前院長，最靠近諾貝爾獎的是2022年的翁啟惠前院長，這兩位都來自中研院，所以我想中研院讓我們有所期待，在這樣的部分，院長，你覺得提升一國的科研能力關鍵在於哪裡？是政府的投資還不夠多嗎？還需要更大量的預算嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：需要有很好的土壤，很好的環境，這個科研環境的創造才能夠吸引人才，才能讓人才在無憂無慮的環境之下，發揮他的創造力。希望大家能夠給予支持，給予鼓勵，跟國際一起競爭，我們要看到的是研究人員實際的貢獻，對社會、對學術方面的貢獻，而不是單靠他功成名就之後才說給他拍手，因為他得諾貝爾獎。在努力的過程當中，我們要給予肯定，給予支持與鼓勵，給予經費上的最大彈性。"],["羅委員廷瑋：當然，在給予支持上，我們當然都希望能夠給予一些支持，所以你的說法就是不要只是得獎，你也否認了吳誠文主委所說的，連一個諾貝爾獎得主都沒有，實在很丟臉，這樣的說法你不一定認同，但是，我想他的意思是說……"],["廖院長俊智：我想他不是這個意思，我們當然很希望臺灣拿到很多世界第一，拿到很多諾貝爾獎，拿到世界冠軍，這個也冠軍，那個也冠軍，我們都很希望……"],["羅委員廷瑋：當然我們相信，中研院現在所有的研究，一定是希望社會能夠有所進步，來幫忙做一些相關的研究，我們都能夠知道。"],["廖院長俊智：是的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：但我們也希望讓世界看到臺灣，目前我們最重要的問題是說，我們一路走來，臺灣有很多的措施、很多的政策，包含頂大計畫、高教深耕、玉山計畫等等，這些計畫的資源會不會過度分散？你覺得有可能嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：這個部分有很多問題，最主要是在學研界，每一個人的方向、目標沒有訂得很清楚，這是我最近一直在講的，不可能任何人都把目標訂在得諾貝爾獎，至少人文學者就不能拿了，所以我們要把目標訂清楚，把我們為什麼要做研究、為什麼這個研究重要，闡述得清楚，爭取立法院的同意支持，立法院也應該考量學術研究的特殊狀況，把跟政治性的、跟一般機關的預算，做分開的審查。我們要的不僅是更多的資源，我們要的是資源的彈性運用，我們必須知道，我們中研院確實拿了很多資源，但是不能用，不好用，是因為預算之間很多沒有辦法流用，譬如說，設備費不能流用、用人費不能流用等等，加上最近也有一些其他的限制。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我想跟你請教，你剛剛有提到一些建議，沒關係，我都聽到了，如果能夠給予協助，我們當仁不讓，我們願意後續再來幫忙。"],["廖院長俊智：謝謝、謝謝。"],["羅委員廷瑋：但是在學術上的建議，你是不是能夠給大家更多建議？我們看到日本有良好的科研環境，科學研究人員能在自己的計畫來支配研究工作，也不會因為一段時間內沒有研究成果而影響評價。"],["廖院長俊智：是的、是的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：但是臺灣好像跟日本不太一樣。"],["廖院長俊智：是的。我最近在大學校長會議發表演講，會後我把演講的講稿提供給委員。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我們都希望能夠給科研人員更多的彈性，給予更多的空間，這個平台能夠做好，大環境做好事，是你剛剛第一句話嘛，對不對？"],["廖院長俊智：沒錯，謝謝委員。"],["羅委員廷瑋：所以我們一起來努力嘛。我們提出了這樣子的問題，我們看到了這樣的問題，所以今天提出，會提出就代表要支持嘛。"],["廖院長俊智：謝謝，是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：會嫌貨才會買貨嘛，對不對？"],["廖院長俊智：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好。中研院去年10月舉辦了一年一度的院區開放，主題演說題目是「未來世代的必修課：能源與AI科技」，對吧？"],["廖院長俊智：是的。"],["羅委員廷瑋：還記得當時院長勉勵同學說，AI目前的限制正是每一個人的一個機會，希望未來世代勇於想像AI無法達成的事情，將問題及挑戰化為契機。在去年7月，中研院與AI辦公室要推動「AI for All AS」，可不可以簡單介紹一下這是什麼？"],["廖院長俊智：AS是中央研究院的英文簡稱，這個意思是說，我們希望全院的人，不論是研究人員、是研究助理或是行政人員，大家都要擁抱AI帶給我們的新契機，大家都要適度地瞭解AI。你或許沒有辦法成為AI專家，也不應該期待你成為AI的專家，但是你應該能夠用最新的AI技術，來在你的研究上，在你的行政上，幫助你的日常業務。"],["羅委員廷瑋：中研院也協力國科會推動生成式的AI，就是TAIDE，相信院長也都知道，去年獲得諾貝爾物理學獎的辛頓教授，研究人工智慧領域，他在2023年離開Google，一直在致力於談論急於推出生成式AI，即人工智慧產品的危險，請問：我們所推動的生成式AI是否有辛頓教授所說的風險？你們有研究過嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：AI當然免不了，被誤用的話，絕對是有風險，所以我們一方面要極力開發，另一方面，我們也要極力思考它對人類文明、對社會安定所造成的風險。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，謝謝。院長，中研院是否可以針對生成式AI所進行可能性的問題研究盤整，並且具體地建議放到教育部目前的中小學數位教學指引3.0及校長數位學習領導指引？畢竟教育部不是研究機構，目前科技日新月異，身為第一線的研究單位，你們最瞭解，在這個部分，你們能夠跨部會給予合作、給予協助、給予建議，可以嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：我們協助並給予建議，這是可以的。我不確定中研院的專家在您講的這方面是否有特別的研究……"],["羅委員廷瑋：因為我想AI有相關的一些人工智慧產品所帶來的風險，剛剛你說免不了，有可能。"],["廖院長俊智：對。"],["羅委員廷瑋：那在這個研究上，如果有找到一些問題，對於教育部中小學的數位教學指引3.0給予一個建議，我覺得這個部分應該是你們做得到的，因為你們畢竟是在高位看這件事情。"],["廖院長俊智：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：後面也有一些長官在點頭，那應該是可以認同，好不好？"],["廖院長俊智：是。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我們不是找麻煩，只是希望能夠讓這個東西更好。"],["廖院長俊智：是，謝謝委員的提醒。"],["羅委員廷瑋：再來，院長，我很關心勞動權益的議題，所以在去年預算審查的時候，特別提出政治所的徵才違法，希望中研院注意，你有掌握到嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：請政治所所長來說明。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我先請問一下院長，回去有盤點所有的單位徵才資訊或工作相關的規定嗎？有沒有發現其他的問題？"],["廖院長俊智：有，這個請人事回答。"],["周主任佩芳：委員好，我是人事室主任周佩芳。"],["羅委員廷瑋：是，有發現問題嗎？"],["周主任佩芳：我們院裡面非常重視勞基法的相關規範，也很重視勞動權益。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我先問一下兩位，請問這一份中央研究院工讀生僱用管理規定，如PPT這裡所示，分別掛在中研院網站跟中研院總務處網站上，請問這一份還有沒有在使用？掛著應該還有在使用吧？有沒有？中研院還有在徵工讀生喔！在人文社會科學聯合圖書館，我想應該是有在使用，對吧？"],["張處長剛維：是的、是的！有。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，我們來講一下，工讀生僱用契約書第三項工作時間中的第三點：「甲方如因經費受限，於請求乙方延長工時服務時，乙方同意以補休假方式處理，不另支給延長工時之酬金。」院長，你覺得這句話有沒有問題？有問題嗎？人事處？"],["周主任佩芳：我們原則上可以跟工讀生協商要補休，但是補休如果沒有……"],["羅委員廷瑋：協商是有討論的空間，但是在……"],["周主任佩芳：對！沒有補休完的話，還是會給加班費。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好，但是我覺得在這一句的用字遣詞上，院長，我要先講，這句話有問題，因為加班時加班費的請求權還沒有發生，怎麼可以先要求要拋棄？我覺得在實務上這一句話應該加完班後，雇主才會去跟員工談能不能換補休。"],["廖院長俊智：既然委員提到實務面，我們就談實務，每一個研究員都知道自己手上經費有多少，當加班費付不出來的時候，就必須要能夠控制有多少人現在請加班，這也是務實……"],["羅委員廷瑋：我知道，因為你們希望控制預算的使用並不會超支，甚至付不出來，但是我建議要修正。"],["廖院長俊智：是的。好，我們回去看一下……"],["羅委員廷瑋：因為這有討論的空間嘛！那乾脆這一條就不要寫，你們再去做勞資部分的協商。"],["廖院長俊智：我們回去研究一下，看怎麼做比較好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：好不好？"],["廖院長俊智：好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：第二，如果工讀生僱用契約書要修正的話，在第四項休假及提及的性別工作平等法，這部法律在2023年7月改為性別平等工作法，建議一併修正。沒事、沒事，不要說我們是雞蛋挑骨頭啦！只是看到了這個問題，順帶提到的。"],["廖院長俊智：OK，好。"],["羅委員廷瑋：再來，在第六項職業災害及普通傷病補助，應該要加上2021年制定的勞工職業災害保險及保護法。最後，整個中央研究院工讀生僱用管理規定這份檔案，在中研院網站跟中研院總務處網站上掛的內容不一樣，院長看一下，這兩份最後修正日期都是中華民國102年7月26日總務字第1020505343號修正，也提及本規定經院長核定後執行，修正時亦同。但是為什麼同一個修正日期的檔案，在工作時間的規定上有不一樣的寫法，中研院官網入口是乙方工作時間每日不超過8小時，每兩週不超過84小時，但是在中研院總務處網站檔案中，乙方正常工作時間每日不超過8小時，每週不超過40小時，我想這兩個說法、寫法都不一樣，這兩個寫法都沒問題，但是到底哪一個才是正確的檔案，我不太懂。工作時間從雙週的84小時變成單週的40小時，是民國105年才開始實施的，而中研院工讀生僱用管理規定最新的修正是在民國102年，是自己偷改，不用報院長核定？"],["張處長剛維：謝謝委員的提醒跟提示，這部分我們會一併檢討讓它有一致性，謝謝。"],["羅委員廷瑋：我所找出的問題是事實嘛，對不對？"],["張處長剛維：是，非常謝謝，我們會回來檢討。"],["羅委員廷瑋：是不是應該馬上更正？"],["張處長剛維：是的，我們會檢討。"],["羅委員廷瑋：還是回到剛剛說的，我們希望不管是未來的工讀生、科研環境、整個勞動產業，甚至這個環境都能夠有所提升，我想這些細節今天沒有責難，我們都是希望讓整個環境更好，只是提出我所看到的問題，在研究過程發現的這些問題，希望你們修正，院長可以嗎？"],["廖院長俊智：好，謝謝。"],["羅委員廷瑋：謝謝。"],["主席：院長請回，謝謝羅廷瑋委員。","再來請蘇清泉委員，蘇清泉、蘇清泉委員不在。","請張嘉郡委員，張嘉郡、張嘉郡委員不在。","請鍾佳濱，鍾佳濱、鍾佳濱委員不在。","請鄭正鈐，鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐委員不在。","請林德福，林德福、林德福委員不在。","請楊瓊瓔，楊瓊瓔、楊瓊瓔委員不在。","今天登記質詢均已發言完畢，關於今天會議作如下決定：報告及詢答完畢，委員所提書面質詢及相關資料，列入紀錄並刊登公報。對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料及未及答復的部分，也請相關機關儘速以書面答復。","報告委員會，今天議程處理完畢，現在散會，謝謝各位。","散會（12時5分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":50,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-6","speakers":["林宜瑾","林沛祥","柯志恩","劉書彬","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","郭昱晴","葉元之","張雅琳","吳沛憶","萬美玲","范雲","翁曉玲","羅廷瑋"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-04-10"],"gazette_id":"1143702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143702_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請中央研究院院長廖俊智列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143702_00001"}}}