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\"end\": 927.965, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"晚\", \"start\": 927.965, \"end\": 928.345, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"輩\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 928.345, \"end\": 928.425, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 928.425, \"end\": 928.545, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"句\", \"start\": 928.545, \"end\": 928.725, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"團\"}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"吧\", \"start\": 928.725, \"end\": 929.386, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"團\"}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"吧\", \"start\": 929.386, \"end\": 929.566, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"團\"}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"吧\", \"start\": 929.566, \"end\": 929.586, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 935.816, \"end\": 935.836, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,071 --> 00:00:15,679\n謝謝主席,我們要請院長、經濟部長及農業部長卓院長、經濟部長、農業部長請備選委員好院長及兩位部長好,辛苦你們了\n\n2\n00:00:33,946 --> 00:00:50,491\n我想說我這邊先直接就開始談我想距離美國要實施對等關稅的日期還有89天我想這暴風雨就在我們的前面我們沒有辦法阻止這個壞事不發生至少我們能夠讓它的影響能夠降到最低\n\n3\n00:00:51,547 --> 00:01:10,159\n我想在清明年假的時候那時候我們突然得到這個訊息就是美國要對台灣要課這個對等關稅高達32%那民進黨從上到下簡單來說就是我們看動漫的說就是咖啡巴拉啦一下就是呆若木雞這個的反應那國人更是嚇傻\n\n4\n00:01:11,970 --> 00:01:38,912\n但是後來因為新加坡總理他一個短營其實在國內是瘋傳那時候我們就回過頭來看看到底我們的政府是不是有像新加坡政府一樣知道自己要做什麼而且一個緊急的去面對但是當我們很期待政府有一些比較很好的作為的情況下但是我們卻看到我們今天面對的是他所提出來的東西還是跟以前一樣即使在過去有\n\n5\n00:01:40,990 --> 00:02:04,746\n府院那個還有一些國安人員等等的人他們不停的出來洗地那在這樣的情況下其實我們得到的答案還是一樣就是再怎麼樣還是一個880億的一個方案並沒有一個新的東西出來能夠讓我們非常的耳目一新那台灣人民也給了民進黨政府7萬9千多個小時來準備\n\n6\n00:02:05,566 --> 00:02:34,075\n但是我們看到的還是一千零一招就是補貼啦那其實關稅這個牽連非常的廣不會像有些人說那關稅增加關稅跟國民黨什麼關係不會有人這樣子這個是很奇怪的一個論點所以我們看深人仿知的那個董事長他在接受那個記者詢問的時候他就有講他說這一次這個所謂的政府的這個方案其實對於傳產根本沒有幫助\n\n7\n00:02:35,115 --> 00:03:02,260\n而且這是一個借錢將來還是得還沒有訂單公司還是走不下去所以訂單是企業能夠活下去的唯一一個方式有健全的市場才會有穩定的訂單我想之前蔡英文總統在競選連任的時候她已經一直不停的吹捧跟美國之間的良好關係甚至講了一副好像我們的FTA快要簽了但是這麼多年過去了我們什麼也都沒有簽\n\n8\n00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:11,494\n那賴總統在上任的時候也一直說他跟美國的關係非常的好但是呢到今天我們換到的是一個對等關稅高達32%所以\n\n9\n00:03:14,966 --> 00:03:36,673\n我今天是想要請教三個問題想跟院長以及兩位部長確認一下我們先請經濟部長回答一下我三個問題第一個問題是2月14號賴清德總統在召開國安會議的時候他有提出了一個全球半導體民主供應鏈夥伴倡議請問這個倡議我們可以阻止什麼以及\n\n10\n00:03:40,394 --> 00:03:54,623\n減少影響什麼這是我第一個問題那如果您要抄可以抄第二個問題3月6號台積電的董事長魏哲嘉在總統府跟我們的總統召開記者會他說明對美投資千億美元的這個過程\n\n11\n00:03:56,324 --> 00:04:21,941\n總統特別強調沒有來自於美國的壓力在台積電赴美投資的這個行為中但是後來川普卻打臉他說當初跟台積電說如果不來我要收你百分之百的關稅所以顯然我們的政府不是全然沒有掌握清楚他就是選擇性的在隱匿某一些事情所以本席要再確認一件事情就是到底媒體報導說台積電跟Intel這個要聯手\n\n12\n00:04:25,603 --> 00:04:49,689\n這個是真還是假到底部長有沒有掌握這個訊息那第三個就是4月9號部長你曾經在經濟委員會說聯電跟全球第五大晶圓代工廠美商格羅方德合併美聯電這個傳聞是不可能的那請問部長您真的有掌握百分之百不可能變成美聯電嗎請部長說明這三個問題報告委員基本上對於這種路邊社的傳聞\n\n13\n00:04:51,110 --> 00:05:14,405\n我們是不予評論我用比較理智的分析它是不可能的跟委員報告就是這個樣子不管是GlobalFoundries或者是Intel的事情這個都是所謂的傳聞我為什麼跟你講我可以決定說它不可能\n\n14\n00:05:15,125 --> 00:05:20,207\n所以可能要去投資必須要經過我們的投選會剛我們講的除了這個之外還有一些全球半導體民主供應鏈的夥伴倡議這個東西到底可以阻止什麼?全球半導體因為台灣最大的公司就是台積電\n\n15\n00:05:39,972 --> 00:06:02,897\n那我們在台灣台積電為什麼會選擇台積電張忠謀董事長曾經講過他選擇台灣是因為他萬一有一些事情要支援的時候兩個小時就可以到他的這個場域任何一個場北部中部南部他的供應鏈要去服務他的場也是兩個小時就可以到所以我們希望讓全球半導體這個領域裡面的供應鏈\n\n16\n00:06:06,758 --> 00:06:25,849\n這個供應鏈在所有的民主聯盟裡面因為為什麼美國一直認為說我們對這個出國管制上面要再多努力因為我們在台灣離這個中國比較近所以有一些業者他們可能轉口到新加坡或轉口到馬來西亞進到中國這個是美國所扛剩的\n\n17\n00:06:28,331 --> 00:06:47,631\n所以我們為了要保持我們在半島嶺領先的位置所以供應鏈一定要留在台灣還有可以減少影響什麼那我們聽不到我想說這個政策的宣講我看就算了我就不再多請教您了其實我自己看來總統在國安會議的時候會提到說要提出這個夥伴的倡議\n\n18\n00:06:50,273 --> 00:07:08,359\n這個很顯然我們就可以合理的懷疑啊其實似乎早就知道這個我們的半導體供應鏈似乎可能有外移的這個風險否則怎麼會在國安會議去提這個我想說你們在面對這次半導體的問題就找一個零分的券不是刻意概提不行就是你們根本不知道怎麼去回答這個問題\n\n19\n00:07:11,260 --> 00:07:27,803\n好那另外我再請教一下就是說之前經濟部有提出一個就是美國如果提高關稅對我們個別產業評估跟影響裡面有提到半導體還有網通業有14大產業但是我看過那個資料裡面講的\n\n20\n00:07:28,203 --> 00:07:46,851\n大部分都是持續評估中或是將持續觀察結果我們這次以為說這次對等關稅會有一個很嚴謹的準備結果透過柯總召我們知道原來我們的預測竟然是極大的失準那再來呢我們也沒有看到政府機關對於這個關稅的影響我再請你回答\n\n21\n00:07:49,292 --> 00:08:12,887\n我們這個是動態的評估啦動態的評估沒有辦法在動態進行過程中就可以知道那個final是什麼再來美國貿易代表組其實有提到就是2025年他們對台灣認為有三大的貿易壁壘我想時間的關係我就提供數據給你們好了我想因為每次我問東你們就答西\n\n22\n00:08:13,607 --> 00:08:33,247\n我想經濟部長你昨天在委員會的諮詢有提到如果我們立刻降汽車的關稅這可能會有十多萬的從業人員會大量的失業那之前也有立委包括民黨立委有提到希望調降汽車的關稅但是呢\n\n23\n00:08:35,291 --> 00:08:48,880\n經濟部的回應是說這樣會衝擊會讓國家的稅收損失會到523億到600億甚至這個計算還沒有加入上游的一些供應鏈另外車輛公會的評估如果國產廠商關閉造成零組件的廠商外移的話這個產值會到847億\n\n24\n00:08:59,867 --> 00:09:20,562\n那從業人員大概是8.26萬人所以我想光是汽車業損失就847.74億那行政院這個880億不知道是怎麼來的請問一下我想請問你們這880億是自己估算出來還是真的有看我沒有估這個請問你引述的這些資料是從哪裡得到的\n\n25\n00:09:20,902 --> 00:09:46,742\n沒關係因為你們就有一些對外的新聞稿裡面新聞的部分委員你是不是新聞的部分你如果是這樣子的話可以跟我們直接要那沒關係我想實際的關係啦我可能也沒有辦法再聽你們這樣慢慢說啦另外我再請教一下就是說因為賴總統他有說我們這一次我們應對的方式就是加大採購零關稅以及過去設廠嘛\n\n26\n00:09:47,623 --> 00:10:06,753\n其實就這三招啊其實這三招每一招其實對台灣的傷害都很重委員您在院內的言論也許可以不負責但是你不可以不求證另外我想再提一下稻米的部分我也再說明一下因為你們一直在強調零關稅我想零關稅對農業的傷害很重剛剛幾個委員都有提到這個部分\n\n27\n00:10:09,374 --> 00:10:35,511\n從零關稅開始談當然我們非常期望關稅越低越好但是我想說不管是從零關稅開始談還是低關稅對於我們的農業一定會有某程度的影響那我自己看了一下稻米的部分因為我看了稻作協會的前理事長陳彥青他有說到水稻產業鏈很龐大\n\n28\n00:10:36,411 --> 00:11:01,651\n那個央苗啦到農機啦到肥料啦農藥等等加工運輸他說從業人員大概至少30萬那如果美國他現在進口的稻米我大概看了一下資料他說平均的售價大概是每公斤大概30元可是我們台灣的產米大概50元那這樣子會不會造成將來在購買米的時候大家都挑便宜我跟委員報告現在目前我們在配額內的64000噸裡面是零關稅的\n\n29\n00:11:04,093 --> 00:11:21,807\n第二個部分就是零關稅並不一定是不好的如果它對台灣的產業是有利的那我們一定爭取零關稅像黃小玉我們需要這些飼料的話我們都希望零關稅但是如果說我們產業是很有競爭力的部分我們就不希望有太高的關稅你們很多人講的嘛\n\n30\n00:11:23,908 --> 00:11:42,257\n被加重相對應關稅到三級對台灣不見得是壞事這個是貴黨有蠻多人都講過這句話那我想時間的關係我想還有雞肉牛奶等等都有很多問題我想我就不再多說了不管怎麼樣就是我覺得我相信我們台灣還是能夠挺過\n\n31\n00:11:43,317 --> 00:12:01,189\n一波一波的危機啦但是前提是政府一定要做好準備因為過去的時代裡面我最近看了很多一些台灣的一些過去的傳記在過去的時代裡面其實我們面臨過如果繼續用這種不實的數據我們的危機也會減少都會越來越被誤會這些都是考驗台灣人的韌性還有耐力不能這個考驗法這種考驗法太殘酷了你這樣考驗台灣人的韌性太殘酷了\n\n32\n00:12:14,377 --> 00:12:26,642\n您是米朗大哥其實我以前是非常的尊重尊敬您的現在也是尊敬那1973年其實那個時候其實我們經歷過石油危機那個部長你知不知道當時的經濟部長是誰\n\n33\n00:12:30,013 --> 00:12:57,202\n那時候經濟部長叫做孫運璿他在面對石油危機的時候他的處理模式就是他趕快想辦法問了一下駐沙烏地阿拉伯的大使館誰才受國王的信任那大使館跟他說當時的秘書長很受信任所以孫運璿他趕快就做功課然後去找當時曾經來台灣拜訪過也是他的朋友的那個計畫部長還有那個工商部長透過他們去找到這個秘書長然後來去\n\n34\n00:12:59,522 --> 00:13:23,948\n列起管道然後來跟國防見面委員這個你也是事後才知道的當時你也沒有辦法知道啊當時的努力你也沒有辦法知道啊等等跟沙烏地阿拉伯的合作讓他們對我們有非常好的好感那當然他對外還說其實台灣是他們的朋友那讓台灣後來他也是在那個先運跟進運之外就沒有列入先運跟進運\n\n35\n00:13:25,288 --> 00:13:43,117\n那他回到國內其實當時物價一直在飆漲因為我看到那個書裡面有人提到說一個鞋廠的老闆說他裝鞋的盒子早裝完價格都不一樣所以他也有一連串這個意志物價通膨等等的做法那我想那個孫逸璇這是前院長\n\n36\n00:13:44,690 --> 00:14:00,172\n以前說過說他六個孩子有四個是跟太太生的另外兩個台電跟公園院我們都知道公園院他所孕育出來的機體電路王國在這一次事情之後也許就悄悄的就被送走了那當然\n\n37\n00:14:01,994 --> 00:14:23,823\n我想這個是我們心裡難過的一件事我們都知道你難過什麼事五十幾年以後就會被送走我們沒有請你回答我來化解你的難過你一直難過下去大家都不舒服我絕對不是聽聽謊言就可以解決我心中不難過身為法律人你這樣的講話我是在很難溝通如果你在這樣我要請主席停止時間\n\n38\n00:14:26,226 --> 00:14:33,883\n我覺得院長兩位部長我還是很尊敬你們都是國家的棟樑這個我絕對不會否認那我想\n\n39\n00:14:35,160 --> 00:15:03,210\n像我們常講一句話,責任日語言典型在素行這文天祥、鄭氣歌這兩句話其實都會讓我們去想想前人包括民進黨的前輩們其實對我們的影響他們的風骨以及他們對國家的貢獻所以我才踏入政界一年啦但是我這一年剛好在政治這個核心裡面看到國家的一些趨勢啦,一些困境那我想,其實我們還是要團結啦我希望說能夠放下鬥爭,停止罷免\n\n40\n00:15:05,932 --> 00:15:29,586\n然後你想想前人吧想想人民吧我覺得我們台灣需要是大團結不是大罷免我們不要在同胞裡面找敵人因為我們其實是戰友我們對台灣我們兩個是戰友而不是敵人我覺得我還是蠻希望院長能夠聽聽我這個晚輩的一句話團結吧團結吧團結吧\n\n41\n00:15:35,816 --> 00:15:35,836\n好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8071\t15679\t謝謝主席,我們要請院長、經濟部長及農業部長卓院長、經濟部長、農業部長請備選委員好院長及兩位部長好,辛苦你們了\n33946\t50491\t我想說我這邊先直接就開始談我想距離美國要實施對等關稅的日期還有89天我想這暴風雨就在我們的前面我們沒有辦法阻止這個壞事不發生至少我們能夠讓它的影響能夠降到最低\n51547\t70159\t我想在清明年假的時候那時候我們突然得到這個訊息就是美國要對台灣要課這個對等關稅高達32%那民進黨從上到下簡單來說就是我們看動漫的說就是咖啡巴拉啦一下就是呆若木雞這個的反應那國人更是嚇傻\n71970\t98912\t但是後來因為新加坡總理他一個短營其實在國內是瘋傳那時候我們就回過頭來看看到底我們的政府是不是有像新加坡政府一樣知道自己要做什麼而且一個緊急的去面對但是當我們很期待政府有一些比較很好的作為的情況下但是我們卻看到我們今天面對的是他所提出來的東西還是跟以前一樣即使在過去有\n100990\t124746\t府院那個還有一些國安人員等等的人他們不停的出來洗地那在這樣的情況下其實我們得到的答案還是一樣就是再怎麼樣還是一個880億的一個方案並沒有一個新的東西出來能夠讓我們非常的耳目一新那台灣人民也給了民進黨政府7萬9千多個小時來準備\n125566\t154075\t但是我們看到的還是一千零一招就是補貼啦那其實關稅這個牽連非常的廣不會像有些人說那關稅增加關稅跟國民黨什麼關係不會有人這樣子這個是很奇怪的一個論點所以我們看深人仿知的那個董事長他在接受那個記者詢問的時候他就有講他說這一次這個所謂的政府的這個方案其實對於傳產根本沒有幫助\n155115\t182260\t而且這是一個借錢將來還是得還沒有訂單公司還是走不下去所以訂單是企業能夠活下去的唯一一個方式有健全的市場才會有穩定的訂單我想之前蔡英文總統在競選連任的時候她已經一直不停的吹捧跟美國之間的良好關係甚至講了一副好像我們的FTA快要簽了但是這麼多年過去了我們什麼也都沒有簽\n183280\t191494\t那賴總統在上任的時候也一直說他跟美國的關係非常的好但是呢到今天我們換到的是一個對等關稅高達32%所以\n194966\t216673\t我今天是想要請教三個問題想跟院長以及兩位部長確認一下我們先請經濟部長回答一下我三個問題第一個問題是2月14號賴清德總統在召開國安會議的時候他有提出了一個全球半導體民主供應鏈夥伴倡議請問這個倡議我們可以阻止什麼以及\n220394\t234623\t減少影響什麼這是我第一個問題那如果您要抄可以抄第二個問題3月6號台積電的董事長魏哲嘉在總統府跟我們的總統召開記者會他說明對美投資千億美元的這個過程\n236324\t261941\t總統特別強調沒有來自於美國的壓力在台積電赴美投資的這個行為中但是後來川普卻打臉他說當初跟台積電說如果不來我要收你百分之百的關稅所以顯然我們的政府不是全然沒有掌握清楚他就是選擇性的在隱匿某一些事情所以本席要再確認一件事情就是到底媒體報導說台積電跟Intel這個要聯手\n265603\t289689\t這個是真還是假到底部長有沒有掌握這個訊息那第三個就是4月9號部長你曾經在經濟委員會說聯電跟全球第五大晶圓代工廠美商格羅方德合併美聯電這個傳聞是不可能的那請問部長您真的有掌握百分之百不可能變成美聯電嗎請部長說明這三個問題報告委員基本上對於這種路邊社的傳聞\n291110\t314405\t我們是不予評論我用比較理智的分析它是不可能的跟委員報告就是這個樣子不管是Global Foundries或者是Intel的事情這個都是所謂的傳聞我為什麼跟你講我可以決定說它不可能\n315125\t320207\t所以可能要去投資必須要經過我們的投選會剛我們講的除了這個之外還有一些全球半導體民主供應鏈的夥伴倡議這個東西到底可以阻止什麼?全球半導體因為台灣最大的公司就是台積電\n339972\t362897\t那我們在台灣台積電為什麼會選擇台積電張忠謀董事長曾經講過他選擇台灣是因為他萬一有一些事情要支援的時候兩個小時就可以到他的這個場域任何一個場北部中部南部他的供應鏈要去服務他的場也是兩個小時就可以到所以我們希望讓全球半導體這個領域裡面的供應鏈\n366758\t385849\t這個供應鏈在所有的民主聯盟裡面因為為什麼美國一直認為說我們對這個出國管制上面要再多努力因為我們在台灣離這個中國比較近所以有一些業者他們可能轉口到新加坡或轉口到馬來西亞進到中國這個是美國所扛剩的\n388331\t407631\t所以我們為了要保持我們在半島嶺領先的位置所以供應鏈一定要留在台灣還有可以減少影響什麼那我們聽不到我想說這個政策的宣講我看就算了我就不再多請教您了其實我自己看來總統在國安會議的時候會提到說要提出這個夥伴的倡議\n410273\t428359\t這個很顯然我們就可以合理的懷疑啊其實似乎早就知道這個我們的半導體供應鏈似乎可能有外移的這個風險否則怎麼會在國安會議去提這個我想說你們在面對這次半導體的問題就找一個零分的券不是刻意概提不行就是你們根本不知道怎麼去回答這個問題\n431260\t447803\t好那另外我再請教一下就是說之前經濟部有提出一個就是美國如果提高關稅對我們個別產業評估跟影響裡面有提到半導體還有網通業有14大產業但是我看過那個資料裡面講的\n448203\t466851\t大部分都是持續評估中或是將持續觀察結果我們這次以為說這次對等關稅會有一個很嚴謹的準備結果透過柯總召我們知道原來我們的預測竟然是極大的失準那再來呢我們也沒有看到政府機關對於這個關稅的影響我再請你回答\n469292\t492887\t我們這個是動態的評估啦動態的評估沒有辦法在動態進行過程中就可以知道那個final是什麼再來美國貿易代表組其實有提到就是2025年他們對台灣認為有三大的貿易壁壘我想時間的關係我就提供數據給你們好了我想因為每次我問東你們就答西\n493607\t513247\t我想經濟部長你昨天在委員會的諮詢有提到如果我們立刻降汽車的關稅這可能會有十多萬的從業人員會大量的失業那之前也有立委包括民黨立委有提到希望調降汽車的關稅但是呢\n515291\t528880\t經濟部的回應是說這樣會衝擊會讓國家的稅收損失會到523億到600億甚至這個計算還沒有加入上游的一些供應鏈另外車輛公會的評估如果國產廠商關閉造成零組件的廠商外移的話這個產值會到847億\n539867\t560562\t那從業人員大概是8.26萬人所以我想光是汽車業損失就847.74億那行政院這個880億不知道是怎麼來的請問一下我想請問你們這880億是自己估算出來還是真的有看我沒有估這個請問你引述的這些資料是從哪裡得到的\n560902\t586742\t沒關係 因為你們就有一些對外的新聞稿裡面新聞的部分 委員你是不是新聞的部分你如果是這樣子的話可以跟我們直接要那沒關係 我想實際的關係啦我可能也沒有辦法再聽你們這樣慢慢說啦另外我再請教一下就是說因為賴總統他有說我們這一次我們應對的方式就是加大採購零關稅以及過去設廠嘛\n587623\t606753\t其實就這三招啊其實這三招每一招其實對台灣的傷害都很重委員您在院內的言論也許可以不負責但是你不可以不求證另外我想再提一下稻米的部分我也再說明一下因為你們一直在強調零關稅我想零關稅對農業的傷害很重剛剛幾個委員都有提到這個部分\n609374\t635511\t從零關稅開始談當然我們非常期望關稅越低越好但是我想說不管是從零關稅開始談還是低關稅對於我們的農業一定會有某程度的影響那我自己看了一下稻米的部分因為我看了稻作協會的前理事長陳彥青他有說到水稻產業鏈很龐大\n636411\t661651\t那個央苗啦到農機啦到肥料啦農藥等等加工運輸他說從業人員大概至少30萬那如果美國他現在進口的稻米我大概看了一下資料他說平均的售價大概是每公斤大概30元可是我們台灣的產米大概50元那這樣子會不會造成將來在購買米的時候大家都挑便宜我跟委員報告現在目前我們在配額內的64000噸裡面是零關稅的\n664093\t681807\t第二個部分就是零關稅並不一定是不好的如果它對台灣的產業是有利的那我們一定爭取零關稅像黃小玉我們需要這些飼料的話我們都希望零關稅但是如果說我們產業是很有競爭力的部分我們就不希望有太高的關稅你們很多人講的嘛\n683908\t702257\t被加重相對應關稅到三級對台灣不見得是壞事這個是貴黨有蠻多人都講過這句話那我想時間的關係我想還有雞肉牛奶等等都有很多問題我想我就不再多說了不管怎麼樣就是我覺得我相信我們台灣還是能夠挺過\n703317\t721189\t一波一波的危機啦但是前提是政府一定要做好準備因為過去的時代裡面我最近看了很多一些台灣的一些過去的傳記在過去的時代裡面其實我們面臨過如果繼續用這種不實的數據我們的危機也會減少都會越來越被誤會這些都是考驗台灣人的韌性還有耐力不能這個考驗法這種考驗法太殘酷了你這樣考驗台灣人的韌性太殘酷了\n734377\t746642\t您是米朗大哥其實我以前是非常的尊重尊敬您的現在也是尊敬那1973年其實那個時候其實我們經歷過石油危機那個部長你知不知道當時的經濟部長是誰\n750013\t777202\t那時候經濟部長叫做孫運璿他在面對石油危機的時候他的處理模式就是他趕快想辦法問了一下駐沙烏地阿拉伯的大使館誰才受國王的信任那大使館跟他說當時的秘書長很受信任所以孫運璿他趕快就做功課然後去找當時曾經來台灣拜訪過也是他的朋友的那個計畫部長還有那個工商部長透過他們去找到這個秘書長然後來去\n779522\t803948\t列起管道然後來跟國防見面委員這個你也是事後才知道的當時你也沒有辦法知道啊當時的努力你也沒有辦法知道啊等等跟沙烏地阿拉伯的合作讓他們對我們有非常好的好感那當然他對外還說其實台灣是他們的朋友那讓台灣後來他也是在那個先運跟進運之外就沒有列入先運跟進運\n805288\t823117\t那他回到國內其實當時物價一直在飆漲因為我看到那個書裡面有人提到說一個鞋廠的老闆說他裝鞋的盒子早裝完價格都不一樣所以他也有一連串這個意志物價通膨等等的做法那我想那個孫逸璇這是前院長\n824690\t840172\t以前說過說他六個孩子有四個是跟太太生的另外兩個台電跟公園院我們都知道公園院他所孕育出來的機體電路王國在這一次事情之後也許就悄悄的就被送走了那當然\n841994\t863823\t我想這個是我們心裡難過的一件事我們都知道你難過什麼事五十幾年以後就會被送走我們沒有請你回答我來化解你的難過你一直難過下去大家都不舒服我絕對不是聽聽謊言就可以解決我心中不難過身為法律人你這樣的講話我是在很難溝通如果你在這樣我要請主席停止時間\n866226\t873883\t我覺得院長兩位部長我還是很尊敬你們都是國家的棟樑這個我絕對不會否認那我想\n875160\t903210\t像我們常講一句話,責任日語言典型在素行這文天祥、鄭氣歌這兩句話其實都會讓我們去想想前人包括民進黨的前輩們其實對我們的影響他們的風骨以及他們對國家的貢獻所以我才踏入政界一年啦但是我這一年剛好在政治這個核心裡面看到國家的一些趨勢啦,一些困境那我想,其實我們還是要團結啦我希望說能夠放下鬥爭,停止罷免\n905932\t929586\t然後你想想前人吧 想想人民吧我覺得我們台灣需要是大團結不是大罷免我們不要在同胞裡面找敵人因為我們其實是戰友我們對台灣我們兩個是戰友而不是敵人我覺得我還是蠻希望院長能夠聽聽我這個晚輩的一句話團結吧 團結吧 團結吧\n935816\t935836\t好 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席,我們要請院長、經濟部長及農業部長卓院長、經濟部長、農業部長請備選委員好院長及兩位部長好,辛苦你們了\n我想說我這邊先直接就開始談我想距離美國要實施對等關稅的日期還有89天我想這暴風雨就在我們的前面我們沒有辦法阻止這個壞事不發生至少我們能夠讓它的影響能夠降到最低\n我想在清明年假的時候那時候我們突然得到這個訊息就是美國要對台灣要課這個對等關稅高達32%那民進黨從上到下簡單來說就是我們看動漫的說就是咖啡巴拉啦一下就是呆若木雞這個的反應那國人更是嚇傻\n但是後來因為新加坡總理他一個短營其實在國內是瘋傳那時候我們就回過頭來看看到底我們的政府是不是有像新加坡政府一樣知道自己要做什麼而且一個緊急的去面對但是當我們很期待政府有一些比較很好的作為的情況下但是我們卻看到我們今天面對的是他所提出來的東西還是跟以前一樣即使在過去有\n府院那個還有一些國安人員等等的人他們不停的出來洗地那在這樣的情況下其實我們得到的答案還是一樣就是再怎麼樣還是一個880億的一個方案並沒有一個新的東西出來能夠讓我們非常的耳目一新那台灣人民也給了民進黨政府7萬9千多個小時來準備\n但是我們看到的還是一千零一招就是補貼啦那其實關稅這個牽連非常的廣不會像有些人說那關稅增加關稅跟國民黨什麼關係不會有人這樣子這個是很奇怪的一個論點所以我們看深人仿知的那個董事長他在接受那個記者詢問的時候他就有講他說這一次這個所謂的政府的這個方案其實對於傳產根本沒有幫助\n而且這是一個借錢將來還是得還沒有訂單公司還是走不下去所以訂單是企業能夠活下去的唯一一個方式有健全的市場才會有穩定的訂單我想之前蔡英文總統在競選連任的時候她已經一直不停的吹捧跟美國之間的良好關係甚至講了一副好像我們的FTA快要簽了但是這麼多年過去了我們什麼也都沒有簽\n那賴總統在上任的時候也一直說他跟美國的關係非常的好但是呢到今天我們換到的是一個對等關稅高達32%所以\n我今天是想要請教三個問題想跟院長以及兩位部長確認一下我們先請經濟部長回答一下我三個問題第一個問題是2月14號賴清德總統在召開國安會議的時候他有提出了一個全球半導體民主供應鏈夥伴倡議請問這個倡議我們可以阻止什麼以及\n減少影響什麼這是我第一個問題那如果您要抄可以抄第二個問題3月6號台積電的董事長魏哲嘉在總統府跟我們的總統召開記者會他說明對美投資千億美元的這個過程\n總統特別強調沒有來自於美國的壓力在台積電赴美投資的這個行為中但是後來川普卻打臉他說當初跟台積電說如果不來我要收你百分之百的關稅所以顯然我們的政府不是全然沒有掌握清楚他就是選擇性的在隱匿某一些事情所以本席要再確認一件事情就是到底媒體報導說台積電跟Intel這個要聯手\n這個是真還是假到底部長有沒有掌握這個訊息那第三個就是4月9號部長你曾經在經濟委員會說聯電跟全球第五大晶圓代工廠美商格羅方德合併美聯電這個傳聞是不可能的那請問部長您真的有掌握百分之百不可能變成美聯電嗎請部長說明這三個問題報告委員基本上對於這種路邊社的傳聞\n我們是不予評論我用比較理智的分析它是不可能的跟委員報告就是這個樣子不管是Global Foundries或者是Intel的事情這個都是所謂的傳聞我為什麼跟你講我可以決定說它不可能\n所以可能要去投資必須要經過我們的投選會剛我們講的除了這個之外還有一些全球半導體民主供應鏈的夥伴倡議這個東西到底可以阻止什麼?全球半導體因為台灣最大的公司就是台積電\n那我們在台灣台積電為什麼會選擇台積電張忠謀董事長曾經講過他選擇台灣是因為他萬一有一些事情要支援的時候兩個小時就可以到他的這個場域任何一個場北部中部南部他的供應鏈要去服務他的場也是兩個小時就可以到所以我們希望讓全球半導體這個領域裡面的供應鏈\n這個供應鏈在所有的民主聯盟裡面因為為什麼美國一直認為說我們對這個出國管制上面要再多努力因為我們在台灣離這個中國比較近所以有一些業者他們可能轉口到新加坡或轉口到馬來西亞進到中國這個是美國所扛剩的\n所以我們為了要保持我們在半島嶺領先的位置所以供應鏈一定要留在台灣還有可以減少影響什麼那我們聽不到我想說這個政策的宣講我看就算了我就不再多請教您了其實我自己看來總統在國安會議的時候會提到說要提出這個夥伴的倡議\n這個很顯然我們就可以合理的懷疑啊其實似乎早就知道這個我們的半導體供應鏈似乎可能有外移的這個風險否則怎麼會在國安會議去提這個我想說你們在面對這次半導體的問題就找一個零分的券不是刻意概提不行就是你們根本不知道怎麼去回答這個問題\n好那另外我再請教一下就是說之前經濟部有提出一個就是美國如果提高關稅對我們個別產業評估跟影響裡面有提到半導體還有網通業有14大產業但是我看過那個資料裡面講的\n大部分都是持續評估中或是將持續觀察結果我們這次以為說這次對等關稅會有一個很嚴謹的準備結果透過柯總召我們知道原來我們的預測竟然是極大的失準那再來呢我們也沒有看到政府機關對於這個關稅的影響我再請你回答\n我們這個是動態的評估啦動態的評估沒有辦法在動態進行過程中就可以知道那個final是什麼再來美國貿易代表組其實有提到就是2025年他們對台灣認為有三大的貿易壁壘我想時間的關係我就提供數據給你們好了我想因為每次我問東你們就答西\n我想經濟部長你昨天在委員會的諮詢有提到如果我們立刻降汽車的關稅這可能會有十多萬的從業人員會大量的失業那之前也有立委包括民黨立委有提到希望調降汽車的關稅但是呢\n經濟部的回應是說這樣會衝擊會讓國家的稅收損失會到523億到600億甚至這個計算還沒有加入上游的一些供應鏈另外車輛公會的評估如果國產廠商關閉造成零組件的廠商外移的話這個產值會到847億\n那從業人員大概是8.26萬人所以我想光是汽車業損失就847.74億那行政院這個880億不知道是怎麼來的請問一下我想請問你們這880億是自己估算出來還是真的有看我沒有估這個請問你引述的這些資料是從哪裡得到的\n沒關係 因為你們就有一些對外的新聞稿裡面新聞的部分 委員你是不是新聞的部分你如果是這樣子的話可以跟我們直接要那沒關係 我想實際的關係啦我可能也沒有辦法再聽你們這樣慢慢說啦另外我再請教一下就是說因為賴總統他有說我們這一次我們應對的方式就是加大採購零關稅以及過去設廠嘛\n其實就這三招啊其實這三招每一招其實對台灣的傷害都很重委員您在院內的言論也許可以不負責但是你不可以不求證另外我想再提一下稻米的部分我也再說明一下因為你們一直在強調零關稅我想零關稅對農業的傷害很重剛剛幾個委員都有提到這個部分\n從零關稅開始談當然我們非常期望關稅越低越好但是我想說不管是從零關稅開始談還是低關稅對於我們的農業一定會有某程度的影響那我自己看了一下稻米的部分因為我看了稻作協會的前理事長陳彥青他有說到水稻產業鏈很龐大\n那個央苗啦到農機啦到肥料啦農藥等等加工運輸他說從業人員大概至少30萬那如果美國他現在進口的稻米我大概看了一下資料他說平均的售價大概是每公斤大概30元可是我們台灣的產米大概50元那這樣子會不會造成將來在購買米的時候大家都挑便宜我跟委員報告現在目前我們在配額內的64000噸裡面是零關稅的\n第二個部分就是零關稅並不一定是不好的如果它對台灣的產業是有利的那我們一定爭取零關稅像黃小玉我們需要這些飼料的話我們都希望零關稅但是如果說我們產業是很有競爭力的部分我們就不希望有太高的關稅你們很多人講的嘛\n被加重相對應關稅到三級對台灣不見得是壞事這個是貴黨有蠻多人都講過這句話那我想時間的關係我想還有雞肉牛奶等等都有很多問題我想我就不再多說了不管怎麼樣就是我覺得我相信我們台灣還是能夠挺過\n一波一波的危機啦但是前提是政府一定要做好準備因為過去的時代裡面我最近看了很多一些台灣的一些過去的傳記在過去的時代裡面其實我們面臨過如果繼續用這種不實的數據我們的危機也會減少都會越來越被誤會這些都是考驗台灣人的韌性還有耐力不能這個考驗法這種考驗法太殘酷了你這樣考驗台灣人的韌性太殘酷了\n您是米朗大哥其實我以前是非常的尊重尊敬您的現在也是尊敬那1973年其實那個時候其實我們經歷過石油危機那個部長你知不知道當時的經濟部長是誰\n那時候經濟部長叫做孫運璿他在面對石油危機的時候他的處理模式就是他趕快想辦法問了一下駐沙烏地阿拉伯的大使館誰才受國王的信任那大使館跟他說當時的秘書長很受信任所以孫運璿他趕快就做功課然後去找當時曾經來台灣拜訪過也是他的朋友的那個計畫部長還有那個工商部長透過他們去找到這個秘書長然後來去\n列起管道然後來跟國防見面委員這個你也是事後才知道的當時你也沒有辦法知道啊當時的努力你也沒有辦法知道啊等等跟沙烏地阿拉伯的合作讓他們對我們有非常好的好感那當然他對外還說其實台灣是他們的朋友那讓台灣後來他也是在那個先運跟進運之外就沒有列入先運跟進運\n那他回到國內其實當時物價一直在飆漲因為我看到那個書裡面有人提到說一個鞋廠的老闆說他裝鞋的盒子早裝完價格都不一樣所以他也有一連串這個意志物價通膨等等的做法那我想那個孫逸璇這是前院長\n以前說過說他六個孩子有四個是跟太太生的另外兩個台電跟公園院我們都知道公園院他所孕育出來的機體電路王國在這一次事情之後也許就悄悄的就被送走了那當然\n我想這個是我們心裡難過的一件事我們都知道你難過什麼事五十幾年以後就會被送走我們沒有請你回答我來化解你的難過你一直難過下去大家都不舒服我絕對不是聽聽謊言就可以解決我心中不難過身為法律人你這樣的講話我是在很難溝通如果你在這樣我要請主席停止時間\n我覺得院長兩位部長我還是很尊敬你們都是國家的棟樑這個我絕對不會否認那我想\n像我們常講一句話,責任日語言典型在素行這文天祥、鄭氣歌這兩句話其實都會讓我們去想想前人包括民進黨的前輩們其實對我們的影響他們的風骨以及他們對國家的貢獻所以我才踏入政界一年啦但是我這一年剛好在政治這個核心裡面看到國家的一些趨勢啦,一些困境那我想,其實我們還是要團結啦我希望說能夠放下鬥爭,停止罷免\n然後你想想前人吧 想想人民吧我覺得我們台灣需要是大團結不是大罷免我們不要在同胞裡面找敵人因為我們其實是戰友我們對台灣我們兩個是戰友而不是敵人我覺得我還是蠻希望院長能夠聽聽我這個晚輩的一句話團結吧 團結吧 團結吧\n好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.071 --> 00:15.679\n謝謝主席,我們要請院長、經濟部長及農業部長卓院長、經濟部長、農業部長請備選委員好院長及兩位部長好,辛苦你們了\n\n00:33.946 --> 00:50.491\n我想說我這邊先直接就開始談我想距離美國要實施對等關稅的日期還有89天我想這暴風雨就在我們的前面我們沒有辦法阻止這個壞事不發生至少我們能夠讓它的影響能夠降到最低\n\n00:51.547 --> 01:10.159\n我想在清明年假的時候那時候我們突然得到這個訊息就是美國要對台灣要課這個對等關稅高達32%那民進黨從上到下簡單來說就是我們看動漫的說就是咖啡巴拉啦一下就是呆若木雞這個的反應那國人更是嚇傻\n\n01:11.970 --> 01:38.912\n但是後來因為新加坡總理他一個短營其實在國內是瘋傳那時候我們就回過頭來看看到底我們的政府是不是有像新加坡政府一樣知道自己要做什麼而且一個緊急的去面對但是當我們很期待政府有一些比較很好的作為的情況下但是我們卻看到我們今天面對的是他所提出來的東西還是跟以前一樣即使在過去有\n\n01:40.990 --> 02:04.746\n府院那個還有一些國安人員等等的人他們不停的出來洗地那在這樣的情況下其實我們得到的答案還是一樣就是再怎麼樣還是一個880億的一個方案並沒有一個新的東西出來能夠讓我們非常的耳目一新那台灣人民也給了民進黨政府7萬9千多個小時來準備\n\n02:05.566 --> 02:34.075\n但是我們看到的還是一千零一招就是補貼啦那其實關稅這個牽連非常的廣不會像有些人說那關稅增加關稅跟國民黨什麼關係不會有人這樣子這個是很奇怪的一個論點所以我們看深人仿知的那個董事長他在接受那個記者詢問的時候他就有講他說這一次這個所謂的政府的這個方案其實對於傳產根本沒有幫助\n\n02:35.115 --> 03:02.260\n而且這是一個借錢將來還是得還沒有訂單公司還是走不下去所以訂單是企業能夠活下去的唯一一個方式有健全的市場才會有穩定的訂單我想之前蔡英文總統在競選連任的時候她已經一直不停的吹捧跟美國之間的良好關係甚至講了一副好像我們的FTA快要簽了但是這麼多年過去了我們什麼也都沒有簽\n\n03:03.280 --> 03:11.494\n那賴總統在上任的時候也一直說他跟美國的關係非常的好但是呢到今天我們換到的是一個對等關稅高達32%所以\n\n03:14.966 --> 03:36.673\n我今天是想要請教三個問題想跟院長以及兩位部長確認一下我們先請經濟部長回答一下我三個問題第一個問題是2月14號賴清德總統在召開國安會議的時候他有提出了一個全球半導體民主供應鏈夥伴倡議請問這個倡議我們可以阻止什麼以及\n\n03:40.394 --> 03:54.623\n減少影響什麼這是我第一個問題那如果您要抄可以抄第二個問題3月6號台積電的董事長魏哲嘉在總統府跟我們的總統召開記者會他說明對美投資千億美元的這個過程\n\n03:56.324 --> 04:21.941\n總統特別強調沒有來自於美國的壓力在台積電赴美投資的這個行為中但是後來川普卻打臉他說當初跟台積電說如果不來我要收你百分之百的關稅所以顯然我們的政府不是全然沒有掌握清楚他就是選擇性的在隱匿某一些事情所以本席要再確認一件事情就是到底媒體報導說台積電跟Intel這個要聯手\n\n04:25.603 --> 04:49.689\n這個是真還是假到底部長有沒有掌握這個訊息那第三個就是4月9號部長你曾經在經濟委員會說聯電跟全球第五大晶圓代工廠美商格羅方德合併美聯電這個傳聞是不可能的那請問部長您真的有掌握百分之百不可能變成美聯電嗎請部長說明這三個問題報告委員基本上對於這種路邊社的傳聞\n\n04:51.110 --> 05:14.405\n我們是不予評論我用比較理智的分析它是不可能的跟委員報告就是這個樣子不管是GlobalFoundries或者是Intel的事情這個都是所謂的傳聞我為什麼跟你講我可以決定說它不可能\n\n05:15.125 --> 05:20.207\n所以可能要去投資必須要經過我們的投選會剛我們講的除了這個之外還有一些全球半導體民主供應鏈的夥伴倡議這個東西到底可以阻止什麼?全球半導體因為台灣最大的公司就是台積電\n\n05:39.972 --> 06:02.897\n那我們在台灣台積電為什麼會選擇台積電張忠謀董事長曾經講過他選擇台灣是因為他萬一有一些事情要支援的時候兩個小時就可以到他的這個場域任何一個場北部中部南部他的供應鏈要去服務他的場也是兩個小時就可以到所以我們希望讓全球半導體這個領域裡面的供應鏈\n\n06:06.758 --> 06:25.849\n這個供應鏈在所有的民主聯盟裡面因為為什麼美國一直認為說我們對這個出國管制上面要再多努力因為我們在台灣離這個中國比較近所以有一些業者他們可能轉口到新加坡或轉口到馬來西亞進到中國這個是美國所扛剩的\n\n06:28.331 --> 06:47.631\n所以我們為了要保持我們在半島嶺領先的位置所以供應鏈一定要留在台灣還有可以減少影響什麼那我們聽不到我想說這個政策的宣講我看就算了我就不再多請教您了其實我自己看來總統在國安會議的時候會提到說要提出這個夥伴的倡議\n\n06:50.273 --> 07:08.359\n這個很顯然我們就可以合理的懷疑啊其實似乎早就知道這個我們的半導體供應鏈似乎可能有外移的這個風險否則怎麼會在國安會議去提這個我想說你們在面對這次半導體的問題就找一個零分的券不是刻意概提不行就是你們根本不知道怎麼去回答這個問題\n\n07:11.260 --> 07:27.803\n好那另外我再請教一下就是說之前經濟部有提出一個就是美國如果提高關稅對我們個別產業評估跟影響裡面有提到半導體還有網通業有14大產業但是我看過那個資料裡面講的\n\n07:28.203 --> 07:46.851\n大部分都是持續評估中或是將持續觀察結果我們這次以為說這次對等關稅會有一個很嚴謹的準備結果透過柯總召我們知道原來我們的預測竟然是極大的失準那再來呢我們也沒有看到政府機關對於這個關稅的影響我再請你回答\n\n07:49.292 --> 08:12.887\n我們這個是動態的評估啦動態的評估沒有辦法在動態進行過程中就可以知道那個final是什麼再來美國貿易代表組其實有提到就是2025年他們對台灣認為有三大的貿易壁壘我想時間的關係我就提供數據給你們好了我想因為每次我問東你們就答西\n\n08:13.607 --> 08:33.247\n我想經濟部長你昨天在委員會的諮詢有提到如果我們立刻降汽車的關稅這可能會有十多萬的從業人員會大量的失業那之前也有立委包括民黨立委有提到希望調降汽車的關稅但是呢\n\n08:35.291 --> 08:48.880\n經濟部的回應是說這樣會衝擊會讓國家的稅收損失會到523億到600億甚至這個計算還沒有加入上游的一些供應鏈另外車輛公會的評估如果國產廠商關閉造成零組件的廠商外移的話這個產值會到847億\n\n08:59.867 --> 09:20.562\n那從業人員大概是8.26萬人所以我想光是汽車業損失就847.74億那行政院這個880億不知道是怎麼來的請問一下我想請問你們這880億是自己估算出來還是真的有看我沒有估這個請問你引述的這些資料是從哪裡得到的\n\n09:20.902 --> 09:46.742\n沒關係因為你們就有一些對外的新聞稿裡面新聞的部分委員你是不是新聞的部分你如果是這樣子的話可以跟我們直接要那沒關係我想實際的關係啦我可能也沒有辦法再聽你們這樣慢慢說啦另外我再請教一下就是說因為賴總統他有說我們這一次我們應對的方式就是加大採購零關稅以及過去設廠嘛\n\n09:47.623 --> 10:06.753\n其實就這三招啊其實這三招每一招其實對台灣的傷害都很重委員您在院內的言論也許可以不負責但是你不可以不求證另外我想再提一下稻米的部分我也再說明一下因為你們一直在強調零關稅我想零關稅對農業的傷害很重剛剛幾個委員都有提到這個部分\n\n10:09.374 --> 10:35.511\n從零關稅開始談當然我們非常期望關稅越低越好但是我想說不管是從零關稅開始談還是低關稅對於我們的農業一定會有某程度的影響那我自己看了一下稻米的部分因為我看了稻作協會的前理事長陳彥青他有說到水稻產業鏈很龐大\n\n10:36.411 --> 11:01.651\n那個央苗啦到農機啦到肥料啦農藥等等加工運輸他說從業人員大概至少30萬那如果美國他現在進口的稻米我大概看了一下資料他說平均的售價大概是每公斤大概30元可是我們台灣的產米大概50元那這樣子會不會造成將來在購買米的時候大家都挑便宜我跟委員報告現在目前我們在配額內的64000噸裡面是零關稅的\n\n11:04.093 --> 11:21.807\n第二個部分就是零關稅並不一定是不好的如果它對台灣的產業是有利的那我們一定爭取零關稅像黃小玉我們需要這些飼料的話我們都希望零關稅但是如果說我們產業是很有競爭力的部分我們就不希望有太高的關稅你們很多人講的嘛\n\n11:23.908 --> 11:42.257\n被加重相對應關稅到三級對台灣不見得是壞事這個是貴黨有蠻多人都講過這句話那我想時間的關係我想還有雞肉牛奶等等都有很多問題我想我就不再多說了不管怎麼樣就是我覺得我相信我們台灣還是能夠挺過\n\n11:43.317 --> 12:01.189\n一波一波的危機啦但是前提是政府一定要做好準備因為過去的時代裡面我最近看了很多一些台灣的一些過去的傳記在過去的時代裡面其實我們面臨過如果繼續用這種不實的數據我們的危機也會減少都會越來越被誤會這些都是考驗台灣人的韌性還有耐力不能這個考驗法這種考驗法太殘酷了你這樣考驗台灣人的韌性太殘酷了\n\n12:14.377 --> 12:26.642\n您是米朗大哥其實我以前是非常的尊重尊敬您的現在也是尊敬那1973年其實那個時候其實我們經歷過石油危機那個部長你知不知道當時的經濟部長是誰\n\n12:30.013 --> 12:57.202\n那時候經濟部長叫做孫運璿他在面對石油危機的時候他的處理模式就是他趕快想辦法問了一下駐沙烏地阿拉伯的大使館誰才受國王的信任那大使館跟他說當時的秘書長很受信任所以孫運璿他趕快就做功課然後去找當時曾經來台灣拜訪過也是他的朋友的那個計畫部長還有那個工商部長透過他們去找到這個秘書長然後來去\n\n12:59.522 --> 13:23.948\n列起管道然後來跟國防見面委員這個你也是事後才知道的當時你也沒有辦法知道啊當時的努力你也沒有辦法知道啊等等跟沙烏地阿拉伯的合作讓他們對我們有非常好的好感那當然他對外還說其實台灣是他們的朋友那讓台灣後來他也是在那個先運跟進運之外就沒有列入先運跟進運\n\n13:25.288 --> 13:43.117\n那他回到國內其實當時物價一直在飆漲因為我看到那個書裡面有人提到說一個鞋廠的老闆說他裝鞋的盒子早裝完價格都不一樣所以他也有一連串這個意志物價通膨等等的做法那我想那個孫逸璇這是前院長\n\n13:44.690 --> 14:00.172\n以前說過說他六個孩子有四個是跟太太生的另外兩個台電跟公園院我們都知道公園院他所孕育出來的機體電路王國在這一次事情之後也許就悄悄的就被送走了那當然\n\n14:01.994 --> 14:23.823\n我想這個是我們心裡難過的一件事我們都知道你難過什麼事五十幾年以後就會被送走我們沒有請你回答我來化解你的難過你一直難過下去大家都不舒服我絕對不是聽聽謊言就可以解決我心中不難過身為法律人你這樣的講話我是在很難溝通如果你在這樣我要請主席停止時間\n\n14:26.226 --> 14:33.883\n我覺得院長兩位部長我還是很尊敬你們都是國家的棟樑這個我絕對不會否認那我想\n\n14:35.160 --> 15:03.210\n像我們常講一句話,責任日語言典型在素行這文天祥、鄭氣歌這兩句話其實都會讓我們去想想前人包括民進黨的前輩們其實對我們的影響他們的風骨以及他們對國家的貢獻所以我才踏入政界一年啦但是我這一年剛好在政治這個核心裡面看到國家的一些趨勢啦,一些困境那我想,其實我們還是要團結啦我希望說能夠放下鬥爭,停止罷免\n\n15:05.932 --> 15:29.586\n然後你想想前人吧想想人民吧我覺得我們台灣需要是大團結不是大罷免我們不要在同胞裡面找敵人因為我們其實是戰友我們對台灣我們兩個是戰友而不是敵人我覺得我還是蠻希望院長能夠聽聽我這個晚輩的一句話團結吧團結吧團結吧\n\n15:35.816 --> 15:35.836\n好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.071,"end":15.679,"text":"謝謝主席,我們要請院長、經濟部長及農業部長卓院長、經濟部長、農業部長請備選委員好院長及兩位部長好,辛苦你們了"},{"start":33.946,"end":50.491,"text":"我想說我這邊先直接就開始談我想距離美國要實施對等關稅的日期還有89天我想這暴風雨就在我們的前面我們沒有辦法阻止這個壞事不發生至少我們能夠讓它的影響能夠降到最低"},{"start":51.547,"end":70.159,"text":"我想在清明年假的時候那時候我們突然得到這個訊息就是美國要對台灣要課這個對等關稅高達32%那民進黨從上到下簡單來說就是我們看動漫的說就是咖啡巴拉啦一下就是呆若木雞這個的反應那國人更是嚇傻"},{"start":71.97,"end":98.912,"text":"但是後來因為新加坡總理他一個短營其實在國內是瘋傳那時候我們就回過頭來看看到底我們的政府是不是有像新加坡政府一樣知道自己要做什麼而且一個緊急的去面對但是當我們很期待政府有一些比較很好的作為的情況下但是我們卻看到我們今天面對的是他所提出來的東西還是跟以前一樣即使在過去有"},{"start":100.99,"end":124.746,"text":"府院那個還有一些國安人員等等的人他們不停的出來洗地那在這樣的情況下其實我們得到的答案還是一樣就是再怎麼樣還是一個880億的一個方案並沒有一個新的東西出來能夠讓我們非常的耳目一新那台灣人民也給了民進黨政府7萬9千多個小時來準備"},{"start":125.566,"end":154.075,"text":"但是我們看到的還是一千零一招就是補貼啦那其實關稅這個牽連非常的廣不會像有些人說那關稅增加關稅跟國民黨什麼關係不會有人這樣子這個是很奇怪的一個論點所以我們看深人仿知的那個董事長他在接受那個記者詢問的時候他就有講他說這一次這個所謂的政府的這個方案其實對於傳產根本沒有幫助"},{"start":155.115,"end":182.26,"text":"而且這是一個借錢將來還是得還沒有訂單公司還是走不下去所以訂單是企業能夠活下去的唯一一個方式有健全的市場才會有穩定的訂單我想之前蔡英文總統在競選連任的時候她已經一直不停的吹捧跟美國之間的良好關係甚至講了一副好像我們的FTA快要簽了但是這麼多年過去了我們什麼也都沒有簽"},{"start":183.28,"end":191.494,"text":"那賴總統在上任的時候也一直說他跟美國的關係非常的好但是呢到今天我們換到的是一個對等關稅高達32%所以"},{"start":194.966,"end":216.673,"text":"我今天是想要請教三個問題想跟院長以及兩位部長確認一下我們先請經濟部長回答一下我三個問題第一個問題是2月14號賴清德總統在召開國安會議的時候他有提出了一個全球半導體民主供應鏈夥伴倡議請問這個倡議我們可以阻止什麼以及"},{"start":220.394,"end":234.623,"text":"減少影響什麼這是我第一個問題那如果您要抄可以抄第二個問題3月6號台積電的董事長魏哲嘉在總統府跟我們的總統召開記者會他說明對美投資千億美元的這個過程"},{"start":236.324,"end":261.941,"text":"總統特別強調沒有來自於美國的壓力在台積電赴美投資的這個行為中但是後來川普卻打臉他說當初跟台積電說如果不來我要收你百分之百的關稅所以顯然我們的政府不是全然沒有掌握清楚他就是選擇性的在隱匿某一些事情所以本席要再確認一件事情就是到底媒體報導說台積電跟Intel這個要聯手"},{"start":265.603,"end":289.689,"text":"這個是真還是假到底部長有沒有掌握這個訊息那第三個就是4月9號部長你曾經在經濟委員會說聯電跟全球第五大晶圓代工廠美商格羅方德合併美聯電這個傳聞是不可能的那請問部長您真的有掌握百分之百不可能變成美聯電嗎請部長說明這三個問題報告委員基本上對於這種路邊社的傳聞"},{"start":291.11,"end":314.405,"text":"我們是不予評論我用比較理智的分析它是不可能的跟委員報告就是這個樣子不管是Global Foundries或者是Intel的事情這個都是所謂的傳聞我為什麼跟你講我可以決定說它不可能"},{"start":315.125,"end":320.207,"text":"所以可能要去投資必須要經過我們的投選會剛我們講的除了這個之外還有一些全球半導體民主供應鏈的夥伴倡議這個東西到底可以阻止什麼?全球半導體因為台灣最大的公司就是台積電"},{"start":339.972,"end":362.897,"text":"那我們在台灣台積電為什麼會選擇台積電張忠謀董事長曾經講過他選擇台灣是因為他萬一有一些事情要支援的時候兩個小時就可以到他的這個場域任何一個場北部中部南部他的供應鏈要去服務他的場也是兩個小時就可以到所以我們希望讓全球半導體這個領域裡面的供應鏈"},{"start":366.758,"end":385.849,"text":"這個供應鏈在所有的民主聯盟裡面因為為什麼美國一直認為說我們對這個出國管制上面要再多努力因為我們在台灣離這個中國比較近所以有一些業者他們可能轉口到新加坡或轉口到馬來西亞進到中國這個是美國所扛剩的"},{"start":388.331,"end":407.631,"text":"所以我們為了要保持我們在半島嶺領先的位置所以供應鏈一定要留在台灣還有可以減少影響什麼那我們聽不到我想說這個政策的宣講我看就算了我就不再多請教您了其實我自己看來總統在國安會議的時候會提到說要提出這個夥伴的倡議"},{"start":410.273,"end":428.359,"text":"這個很顯然我們就可以合理的懷疑啊其實似乎早就知道這個我們的半導體供應鏈似乎可能有外移的這個風險否則怎麼會在國安會議去提這個我想說你們在面對這次半導體的問題就找一個零分的券不是刻意概提不行就是你們根本不知道怎麼去回答這個問題"},{"start":431.26,"end":447.803,"text":"好那另外我再請教一下就是說之前經濟部有提出一個就是美國如果提高關稅對我們個別產業評估跟影響裡面有提到半導體還有網通業有14大產業但是我看過那個資料裡面講的"},{"start":448.203,"end":466.851,"text":"大部分都是持續評估中或是將持續觀察結果我們這次以為說這次對等關稅會有一個很嚴謹的準備結果透過柯總召我們知道原來我們的預測竟然是極大的失準那再來呢我們也沒有看到政府機關對於這個關稅的影響我再請你回答"},{"start":469.292,"end":492.887,"text":"我們這個是動態的評估啦動態的評估沒有辦法在動態進行過程中就可以知道那個final是什麼再來美國貿易代表組其實有提到就是2025年他們對台灣認為有三大的貿易壁壘我想時間的關係我就提供數據給你們好了我想因為每次我問東你們就答西"},{"start":493.607,"end":513.247,"text":"我想經濟部長你昨天在委員會的諮詢有提到如果我們立刻降汽車的關稅這可能會有十多萬的從業人員會大量的失業那之前也有立委包括民黨立委有提到希望調降汽車的關稅但是呢"},{"start":515.291,"end":528.88,"text":"經濟部的回應是說這樣會衝擊會讓國家的稅收損失會到523億到600億甚至這個計算還沒有加入上游的一些供應鏈另外車輛公會的評估如果國產廠商關閉造成零組件的廠商外移的話這個產值會到847億"},{"start":539.867,"end":560.562,"text":"那從業人員大概是8.26萬人所以我想光是汽車業損失就847.74億那行政院這個880億不知道是怎麼來的請問一下我想請問你們這880億是自己估算出來還是真的有看我沒有估這個請問你引述的這些資料是從哪裡得到的"},{"start":560.902,"end":586.742,"text":"沒關係 因為你們就有一些對外的新聞稿裡面新聞的部分 委員你是不是新聞的部分你如果是這樣子的話可以跟我們直接要那沒關係 我想實際的關係啦我可能也沒有辦法再聽你們這樣慢慢說啦另外我再請教一下就是說因為賴總統他有說我們這一次我們應對的方式就是加大採購零關稅以及過去設廠嘛"},{"start":587.623,"end":606.753,"text":"其實就這三招啊其實這三招每一招其實對台灣的傷害都很重委員您在院內的言論也許可以不負責但是你不可以不求證另外我想再提一下稻米的部分我也再說明一下因為你們一直在強調零關稅我想零關稅對農業的傷害很重剛剛幾個委員都有提到這個部分"},{"start":609.374,"end":635.511,"text":"從零關稅開始談當然我們非常期望關稅越低越好但是我想說不管是從零關稅開始談還是低關稅對於我們的農業一定會有某程度的影響那我自己看了一下稻米的部分因為我看了稻作協會的前理事長陳彥青他有說到水稻產業鏈很龐大"},{"start":636.411,"end":661.651,"text":"那個央苗啦到農機啦到肥料啦農藥等等加工運輸他說從業人員大概至少30萬那如果美國他現在進口的稻米我大概看了一下資料他說平均的售價大概是每公斤大概30元可是我們台灣的產米大概50元那這樣子會不會造成將來在購買米的時候大家都挑便宜我跟委員報告現在目前我們在配額內的64000噸裡面是零關稅的"},{"start":664.093,"end":681.807,"text":"第二個部分就是零關稅並不一定是不好的如果它對台灣的產業是有利的那我們一定爭取零關稅像黃小玉我們需要這些飼料的話我們都希望零關稅但是如果說我們產業是很有競爭力的部分我們就不希望有太高的關稅你們很多人講的嘛"},{"start":683.908,"end":702.257,"text":"被加重相對應關稅到三級對台灣不見得是壞事這個是貴黨有蠻多人都講過這句話那我想時間的關係我想還有雞肉牛奶等等都有很多問題我想我就不再多說了不管怎麼樣就是我覺得我相信我們台灣還是能夠挺過"},{"start":703.317,"end":721.189,"text":"一波一波的危機啦但是前提是政府一定要做好準備因為過去的時代裡面我最近看了很多一些台灣的一些過去的傳記在過去的時代裡面其實我們面臨過如果繼續用這種不實的數據我們的危機也會減少都會越來越被誤會這些都是考驗台灣人的韌性還有耐力不能這個考驗法這種考驗法太殘酷了你這樣考驗台灣人的韌性太殘酷了"},{"start":734.377,"end":746.642,"text":"您是米朗大哥其實我以前是非常的尊重尊敬您的現在也是尊敬那1973年其實那個時候其實我們經歷過石油危機那個部長你知不知道當時的經濟部長是誰"},{"start":750.013,"end":777.202,"text":"那時候經濟部長叫做孫運璿他在面對石油危機的時候他的處理模式就是他趕快想辦法問了一下駐沙烏地阿拉伯的大使館誰才受國王的信任那大使館跟他說當時的秘書長很受信任所以孫運璿他趕快就做功課然後去找當時曾經來台灣拜訪過也是他的朋友的那個計畫部長還有那個工商部長透過他們去找到這個秘書長然後來去"},{"start":779.522,"end":803.948,"text":"列起管道然後來跟國防見面委員這個你也是事後才知道的當時你也沒有辦法知道啊當時的努力你也沒有辦法知道啊等等跟沙烏地阿拉伯的合作讓他們對我們有非常好的好感那當然他對外還說其實台灣是他們的朋友那讓台灣後來他也是在那個先運跟進運之外就沒有列入先運跟進運"},{"start":805.288,"end":823.117,"text":"那他回到國內其實當時物價一直在飆漲因為我看到那個書裡面有人提到說一個鞋廠的老闆說他裝鞋的盒子早裝完價格都不一樣所以他也有一連串這個意志物價通膨等等的做法那我想那個孫逸璇這是前院長"},{"start":824.69,"end":840.172,"text":"以前說過說他六個孩子有四個是跟太太生的另外兩個台電跟公園院我們都知道公園院他所孕育出來的機體電路王國在這一次事情之後也許就悄悄的就被送走了那當然"},{"start":841.994,"end":863.823,"text":"我想這個是我們心裡難過的一件事我們都知道你難過什麼事五十幾年以後就會被送走我們沒有請你回答我來化解你的難過你一直難過下去大家都不舒服我絕對不是聽聽謊言就可以解決我心中不難過身為法律人你這樣的講話我是在很難溝通如果你在這樣我要請主席停止時間"},{"start":866.226,"end":873.883,"text":"我覺得院長兩位部長我還是很尊敬你們都是國家的棟樑這個我絕對不會否認那我想"},{"start":875.16,"end":903.21,"text":"像我們常講一句話,責任日語言典型在素行這文天祥、鄭氣歌這兩句話其實都會讓我們去想想前人包括民進黨的前輩們其實對我們的影響他們的風骨以及他們對國家的貢獻所以我才踏入政界一年啦但是我這一年剛好在政治這個核心裡面看到國家的一些趨勢啦,一些困境那我想,其實我們還是要團結啦我希望說能夠放下鬥爭,停止罷免"},{"start":905.932,"end":929.586,"text":"然後你想想前人吧 想想人民吧我覺得我們台灣需要是大團結不是大罷免我們不要在同胞裡面找敵人因為我們其實是戰友我們對台灣我們兩個是戰友而不是敵人我覺得我還是蠻希望院長能夠聽聽我這個晚輩的一句話團結吧 團結吧 團結吧"},{"start":935.816,"end":935.836,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":967,"blocks":[["吳委員宗憲：（16時23分）謝謝主席，請院長、經濟部長及農業部長。"],["主席：卓院長、經濟部長、農業部長，請備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：吳委員好。"],["吳委員宗憲：院長及兩位部長好。辛苦你們了！"],["卓院長榮泰：不會。"],["吳委員宗憲：我這邊就直接開始談，距離美國要實施對等關稅的日期還有89天，我想這場暴風雨就在我們前面，我們沒有辦法阻止這個壞事不發生，至少我們能夠讓它的影響降到最低。在清明連假的時候，我們突然得到這個訊息，美國要對臺灣課對等關稅高達32%，民進黨從上到下，簡單來說，就是我們看動漫的時候，看到的capybara，就是呆若木雞的反應，國人更是嚇傻。但是後來因為新加坡總理的一則短影音在國內瘋傳，那時候我們就回過頭來看，到底我們的政府是不是像新加坡政府一樣，知道自己要做什麼，而且是緊急地去面對。","當我們很期待政府有一些好的作為的情況下，卻看到我們今天面對的是，它所提出來的東西還是跟以前一樣，即使在過去有府、院，還有一些國安人員等等，他們不停地出來洗地，在這樣的情況下，其實我們得到的答案還是一樣，再怎麼樣還是一個880億的方案，並沒有一個新的東西出來能夠讓我們非常的耳目一新，臺灣人民也給了民進黨政府七萬九千多個小時來準備，但是我們看到的還是一千零一招，就是補貼啦！其實關稅牽連非常的廣，不像有一些人說關稅增加跟國民黨有什麼關係，不會有人這樣子，這個是很奇怪的一個論點。所以我們看到伸仁紡織的董事長在接受記者詢問的時候就有講，他說這一次所謂政府的方案，其實對於傳產根本沒有幫助，而且這是借錢，將來還是得還，沒有訂單，公司還是走不下去，所以訂單是企業能夠活下去的唯一一個方式，有健全的市場，才會有穩定的訂單。之前蔡英文總統在競選連任的時候，他已經一直不停的吹捧跟美國之間的良好關係，甚至講得一副好像我們的FTA快要簽了，但是這麼多年過去了，我們什麼也都沒有簽。賴總統在上任的時候，也一直說他跟美國的關係非常得好，但是到今天我們換到的是對等關稅高達32%。我今天想要請教三個問題，想跟院長以及兩位部長確認一下，先請經濟部長回答好了。","第一個問題，2月14號賴清德總統在召開國安會議的時候，他有提出了一個全球半導體民主供應鏈夥伴倡議，請問這個倡議可以阻止什麼，以及減少影響什麼？這是我第一個問題，如果你要抄可以抄。第二個問題，3月6號台積電的董事長魏哲家在總統府跟我們的總統召開記者會，他說明對美投資千億美元的過程，總統特別強調在台積電赴美投資的這個行為中，沒有來自於美國的壓力。但是後來卻被川普打臉，他說當初曾跟台積電說，如果不來，我要收你百分之百的關稅，所以顯然我們的政府不是全然沒有掌握清楚，而是選擇性的在隱匿某一些事情。本席要再確認一件事情，媒體報導說台積電跟Intel要聯手，到底這個是真還是假？部長到底有沒有掌握這個訊息？第三個，4月9號部長曾經在經濟委員會說聯電跟全球第五大晶圓代工廠──美商格羅方德合併成「美聯電」這個傳聞是不可能的，請問部長真的有百分之百掌握不可能變成「美聯電」嗎？請部長說明這三個問題。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，基本上對於這種路邊社的傳聞，我們是不予評論，我用比較理智的分析，它是不可能的啦，跟委員報告就是這個樣子，不管是GlobalFoundries或者是Intel的事情，都是所謂的傳聞啦！"],["吳委員宗憲：好，空穴來風。"],["郭部長智輝：我為什麼跟你講，我可以決定它是不可能……"],["吳委員宗憲：沒關係，好，你跟我說不可能，我只是要確認……"],["郭部長智輝：因為他們要去投資，必須要經過我們的投審會。"],["吳委員宗憲：部長，你不要搶答。剛剛我們講的，除了這個之外，還有全球半導體民主供應鏈的夥伴倡議，這個東西到底可以阻止什麼？可以減少影響什麼？"],["郭部長智輝：是，有關全球半導體，半導體因為臺灣最大的公司就是台積電，台積電為什麼會選擇在臺灣？張忠謀董事長曾經講過，他選擇臺灣是因為萬一有一些事情要支援的時候，兩個小時就可以到它的廠域，任何一個廠不論北部、中部、南部，它的供應鏈要去服務它的廠也是兩個小時就可以到，所以我們希望讓全球半導體領域的這個供應鏈，在所有民主聯盟裡面……為什麼？因為美國一直認為我們對於出口管制上面要再多努力，因為臺灣離中國比較近，所以有一些業者，他們可能轉口到新加坡或轉口到馬來西亞進到中國，這個是美國所concern的……"],["吳委員宗憲：好，部長，沒關係……"],["郭部長智輝：所以我們為了要保持在半導體領先的位置……"],["吳委員宗憲：其實我的問題只是這個倡議可以阻止什麼？"],["郭部長智輝：所以供應鏈一定要留在臺灣。"],["吳委員宗憲：還有可以減少影響什麼？我們現在聽不到，那我想這個政策的宣講，我看就算了啦，我就不再多請教您了！其實，就我自己看來，總統在國安會議的時候會提出夥伴的倡議，很顯然我們就可以合理的懷疑，其實似乎早就知道我們半導體供應鏈可能有外移的風險，否則怎麼會在國安會議去提這個？我想你們在面對這次半導體問題就繳了一個零分的卷嘛……"],["郭部長智輝：這有點錯愕……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，我講一句話……"],["吳委員宗憲：不是刻意蓋題不寫，就是你們根本不知道怎麼回答這個問題。"],["卓院長榮泰：您剛剛的推論跟總統的原意完全違背。"],["吳委員宗憲：另外我再請教一下，之前經濟部提出，美國提高關稅對我國個別產業評估跟影響，裡面有提到半導體還有網通業，共有14大產業，但是我看過那個資料，裡面講到大部分都是持續評估中，或是將持續觀察，我們以為這次對等關稅會有一個很嚴謹的準備，結果透過柯總召才知道，原來我們的預測竟然是極大的失準。再來，我們也沒有看到政府機關對於關稅的因應……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，我想請教，他們關稅的最後定案出來了嗎？我們當然要持續評估啊！"],["吳委員宗憲：我沒有請你回答。"],["郭部長智輝：我們是動態的評估啦……"],["吳委員宗憲：對關稅都沒有任何的因應，也沒有加以分級的去評估到底該怎麼樣……"],["郭部長智輝：沒有辦法在動態進行中就可以知道那個final是什麼。"],["吳委員宗憲：部長，我沒有問你，你不要這樣。再來，美國貿易代表署其實有提到，他們認為2025年對臺灣有三大貿易壁壘，因為時間的關係，我就提供數據給你們好了，因為每次我問東，你們就答西。"],["郭部長智輝：不是答不出來，你用那個動態的東西，到底是過去、現在還是未來……"],["吳委員宗憲：經濟部長，你昨天在委員會的質詢有提到，如果我們立刻降汽車的關稅，可能會有十多萬大量從業人員會失業，之前也有立委，包括民進黨立委也有提到，希望調降汽車的關稅，但是經濟部的回應是：這樣會衝擊，會讓國家稅收損失523億到600億，甚至這個計算還沒有加入上游的一些供應鏈……"],["郭部長智輝：委員，那個資料是誰給你的，我們應該核對一下。"],["吳委員宗憲：另外，車輛公會的評估，如果國產廠商關閉造成零組件廠商外移的話，這個產值會到847億，從業人員大概是8.26萬人，所以光是汽車業損失就847.74億，那行政院這個880億不知道是怎麼來的？我想請問一下，你們這880億是自己估算出來的，還是真的有……"],["郭部長智輝：我沒有估這個，請問您引述的這些資料是從哪裡得到的？"],["吳委員宗憲：沒關係啊，因為你們有一些對外的新聞稿嘛！"],["郭部長智輝：新聞的部分……如果是這樣的話，委員你可以跟我們直接要資料。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，沒關係……"],["郭部長智輝：我們可以跟您做比較具體的報告，新聞的部分，我想我們比較沒辦法評論。"],["吳委員宗憲：時間的關係，我可能也沒辦法聽你們慢慢說。另外我再請教一下，賴總統說我們這一次應對的方式就是加大採購、零關稅以及過去設廠，就這三招啊！其實這三招中的每一招對臺灣的傷害都很重，所以我不知道這樣對臺灣有什麼幫助……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，你在院內的言論也許可以不負責，但是你不可以不求證。"],["吳委員宗憲：我想再提一下稻米的部分，我也再說明一下，因為你們一直在強調零關稅，我想零關稅對農業的傷害很重，剛剛幾個委員都有提到這個部分……"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，不是零關稅，是從零關稅開始談。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，沒關係，當然我們非常期望關稅越低越好，但是我想不管是從零關稅開始談還是低關稅，對於我們的農業一定會有某程度的影響。我自己看了一下稻米的部分，針對稻米，我看了稻作協會的陳理事長──陳燕卿有說到水稻產業鏈很龐大，從秧苗到農機和肥料、農藥等等加工運輸，他說從業人員至少30萬，如果美國現在進口的稻米，我大概看了一下資料……"],["陳部長駿季：6萬4,000噸。"],["吳委員宗憲：他們說平均售價大概是每公斤30元，可是我們臺灣的產米大概50元，這樣會不會造成將來在購買米的時候，大家就挑……"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，目前我們在配額內的6萬4,000噸是零關稅的；第二個部分，零關稅並不一定是不好的，如果它對臺灣產業是有利的，那我們一定爭取零關稅……"],["吳委員宗憲：好，沒問題。"],["陳部長駿季：像黃、小、玉，我們需要這些飼料的話，我們都希望零關稅，但如果我們產業是很有競爭力的，我們就不希望有太高的關稅。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，就是你們很多人講的嘛，加倍、加重對應關稅到三十幾，對臺灣不見得是壞事，貴黨有滿多人都講過這句話。好，時間關係，我想還有雞肉、牛奶等等都有很多問題，我就不再多說了。"],["卓院長榮泰：誰講過這句話？委員，你要講清楚，誰講過這句話？"],["吳委員宗憲：不管怎麼樣，我相信我們臺灣還是能夠挺過一波一波的危機，但前提是政府一定要做好準備，因為過去的時代裡面，我最近看了一些臺灣過去的傳記，在過去的時代裡面……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，我講一句話，一句話就好。如果繼續用這種不實的數據，我們的危機不會減少，還會越來越被誤會。"],["吳委員宗憲：我們面臨過退出聯合國、跟日本斷交、跟美國斷交，還有兩次的石油危機，這些都在考驗臺灣人的韌性和耐力，我想這點我們都知道，過去這些歷史我們都知道……"],["卓院長榮泰：不能用這種考驗法，這種考驗法太殘酷了！你這樣考驗臺灣的韌性，太殘酷了！"],["吳委員宗憲：不用再跟我講那些！您是民進黨大哥，其實我以前非常尊敬您，現在也尊敬。","1973年時我們經歷過石油危機，郭部長，你知道當時的經濟部長是誰嗎？沒關係，那時候經濟部長叫孫運璿。在面對石油危機時，他的處理模式是：趕快想辦法並問了駐沙烏地阿拉伯大使館，誰受國王信任？大使館說，當時的秘書長很受信任。所以孫運璿趕快做功課，然後找當時曾經來臺灣拜訪過，且是他朋友的計畫部長及工商部長，透過他們找到秘書長，由這個管道跟國王見面……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，這些你也是事後才知道的，當時你也沒有辦法啊！"],["吳委員宗憲：後來提供了農業、電力、基礎工程等等……"],["卓院長榮泰：當時的努力，你也沒有辦法知道啊！"],["吳委員宗憲：跟沙烏地阿拉伯的合作，讓他們對我們非常有好感。當然，他們還對外說臺灣是他們的朋友，讓臺灣後來在限運、禁運之外，沒有列入限運、禁運名單中。回到國內，其實當時的物價一直在飆漲，我看到書裡面有人提到，有個鞋廠老闆說裝鞋的盒子早中晚價格都不一樣，所以他有一連串抑制物價通膨等等的做法。孫運璿前院長以前說過他有六個孩子，有四個是跟太太生的，另外兩個就是台電跟工研院。但我們都知道，工研院所孕育出來的積體電路王國在這一次事情之後，也許就悄悄地被送走了，這是我們心裡難過的一件事。"],["卓院長榮泰：請問委員難過什麼？你難過什麼事？"],["郭部長智輝：為什麼五十幾年以後就會被送走……"],["卓院長榮泰：你難過什麼事要讓我們知道……"],["吳委員宗憲：我沒有請你回答……"],["卓院長榮泰：我來化解你的難過，你一直難過下去，大家都不舒服。"],["吳委員宗憲：不需要、不需要！這絕對不是聽聽謊言就可以解決問題讓我心中不難過！"],["卓院長榮泰：身為法律人，你這樣子講話，我實在很難溝通。"],["吳委員宗憲：如果你再這樣，我要請主席停止時間了！","院長、兩位部長，我還是很尊敬你們，你們都是國家的棟梁，這點我絕對不會否認。我們常講一句話「哲人日已遠，典型在夙昔」，這是文天祥正氣歌所講的兩句話，讓我們去想一想前人風範，包括民進黨前輩們對我們的影響，還有他們的風骨以及他們對國家的貢獻。我才踏入政界一年，但這一年剛好處在政治核心，也看到國家的一些趨勢及一些困境。我想我們還是要團結，也希望能夠放下鬥爭，停止罷免吧！你想想前人吧！想想人民吧！臺灣需要的是大團結，不是大罷免！我們不要在同胞裡面找敵人，因為我們其實是戰友。對臺灣而言，我們兩個是戰友，而不是敵人。我還是滿希望院長能夠聽聽我這個晚輩的一句話：團結吧！團結吧！團結吧！"],["卓院長榮泰：你的結論我會聽，但推論完全錯誤。"],["主席：謝謝吳委員，謝謝卓院長。","我們休息5分鐘，休息之後繼續進行質詢。現在休息。","休息（16時38分）","繼續開會（16時44分）"],["主席：報告院會，現在繼續開會。","請鍾委員佳濱質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":13,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-04-11"],"gazette_id":"1143401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143401_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1143401_00001"}}}