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\"end\": 761.516, \"text\": \"但談判的過程當中我們現在距離歷程其實我覺得食安跟健康尤其是學童的健康是絕對不能退讓的也絕對不能讓步的所以請院長針對這個部分一定要謹守我們的原則絕對不能犧牲國人的食安跟犧牲國人的健康\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 752.185, \"end\": 752.505, \"score\": 0.543}, {\"word\": \"談\"}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 752.505, \"end\": 752.626, \"score\": 0.566}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 752.626, \"end\": 753.026, \"score\": 0.711}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 753.026, \"end\": 753.166, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 753.166, \"end\": 753.286, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 753.286, \"end\": 753.547, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 753.547, \"end\": 753.807, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"距\", \"start\": 753.807, \"end\": 753.927, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"離\"}, {\"word\": \"歷\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 753.927, \"end\": 754.207, \"score\": 0.693}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 754.207, \"end\": 754.568, 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920.444, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 920.444, \"end\": 920.464, \"score\": 0.3}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,609 --> 00:00:08,871\n謝謝主席我們請卓榮泰卓院長請卓院長備詢徐文豪\n\n2\n00:00:18,837 --> 00:00:41,051\n院長好院長您辛苦了我們現在面對有史以來最嚴重的一個貿易戰尤其是我們在去年對美的貿易順差達到739億美元排名第六所以川普總統才會提出對等關稅這樣的一個要求當然台灣除了關稅戰之外其實還面臨了四大的挑戰\n\n3\n00:00:42,971 --> 00:01:06,389\n關稅戰當然我們的平均關稅大概是1.6%雖然現在暫緩但也大幅提升到10%對於我的中小企業他們的毛利率大概只有3、4%來說也造成極大的壓力第二個就是國防支出因為我們的國防預算被要求提高到有GDP3.55甚至10%的一個說法那第三個是匯率戰就是\n\n4\n00:01:07,950 --> 00:01:15,957\n經濟顧問委員會的米倫他有提到說新台幣希望能夠升值到20%可是實際上只要升值到10%的話我國的產業可能就沒有辦法負荷另外還有美債的風險就是我們現在外匯存底大概5700億大概有\n\n5\n00:01:26,106 --> 00:01:38,945\n九成當然央行總裁是提到說是八成啦不管是八成還是九成配置美債其實資產的安全都備受關注請問一下卓院長請問面對這四大挑戰賴政府準備好了嗎\n\n6\n00:01:41,035 --> 00:01:56,265\n首先對於關稅戰的這個議題我們剛剛在專案報告裡面提到了相關那麼國防的支出我一直強調依照我們財政的能力跟國家國防的需求那總統也提示要GDP3%\n\n7\n00:01:57,626 --> 00:02:21,892\n這個目標來走所以要一時間說到5%我想這個能力上應該還有有所考量至於匯率戰我們請先接的下來有心理有預期將來的匯率可能是一場也是相當相當艱辛的互相的搏鬥而且是整個全世界也是影響很大的但我國一直對匯率不是一個高度政府去操縱的國家我們也有他的匯率自由的市場所以央行的責任在\n\n8\n00:02:23,172 --> 00:02:45,700\n長期穩定的觀察整個匯率穩定市場的運作而不是去干涉因為現在美國要求我們可能未來的美債要用舊換新甚至能達到零利率最後甚至可能還要支付一些所謂相關的安全捐那這個部分的話對我們的這個外匯存底應該有很大的影響總裁來答覆好總裁你請說我跟委員報告就是說這個只是說是\n\n9\n00:02:47,901 --> 00:03:03,035\n報導我跟委員報告每年我們都會跟美國的財政部就美債的議題我們會互相交換意見這個部分就請總裁針對我現在是提出來有這樣子的一個可能挑戰請總裁針對這個議題我相信要好\n\n10\n00:03:05,257 --> 00:03:31,165\n好好的來為我國的這個委會存體把關那另外就是我想請教一下這個院長就是說因為其實我們跟美國談判我們一定要知道川普總統在想什麼要什麼請問院長這邊知道川普總統要什麼嗎他透過這一次的對等關稅我認為他是要讓美國再工業化他的目的他的手法透過這樣子希望是達到\n\n11\n00:03:33,504 --> 00:03:42,443\n關稅貿易的平衡跟消除這些不公平就是貿易能夠讓它逆差能夠降低另外就是能夠排除各國之間跟它的非關稅的貿易障礙\n\n12\n00:03:44,173 --> 00:04:06,765\n針對這個部分我也有四個觀點來跟院長一起分享首先我認為川普他要的是要解決美國赤字的問題另外他也希望能夠降低美國通膨跟改善經濟的問題還有他的股市還有美國債券現在當然利息支出太高的相關問題當然還有就是跟中國的貿易相關的問題所以針對這些問題我相信我們在跟美國談判的時候\n\n13\n00:04:12,689 --> 00:04:20,606\n應該是有掌握確切的一個方向才能夠談出好的結果請問院長認不認同從去年我們成立的關於\n\n14\n00:04:21,834 --> 00:04:44,014\n經貿外交工作小組以及台美經貿專案小組就一直鎖定美方的政策上可能的做一些改變就一直鎖定這些但是他到今天還是有一些變動的所以我們是持續變動的在觀察也在掌握我們期待在最好的時機我們的代表團能夠代表國家最大的利益把出我們整套的方案策略跟大家談\n\n15\n00:04:44,614 --> 00:04:57,388\n那個就代表一個國家最終的態度談的結果雙方當然要有一些折衝當然要有一些討論那請問一下院長你認為川普總統他這次所提出的關稅的做法合乎公平貿易的準則嗎\n\n16\n00:04:59,151 --> 00:05:19,245\n我說他就是用一個公式一個算法算出一個結果他並沒有考慮個別國家跟他之間的因為好像跟我們傳統認知的公民貿易有很大的一個落差嘛所以您認同他這個是合乎我們現在公民貿易的準則嗎那也有委員指出他的計算的方式是不是還要有一些更精進的部分但是很多的\n\n17\n00:05:19,625 --> 00:05:39,066\n經濟學者也是有這樣的看法但是我們賴總統在彭博社的投書當中我們可以看到他有四項具體的回應當然我們面對這樣子美國的不公平的對待的時候其實我們原則上應該是要選擇怎麼去\n\n18\n00:05:41,595 --> 00:06:08,090\n協商嘛而不是選擇妥協那當然我們目前賴政府面對川普的要求選擇要不管是台積電已經到美國去投資1650億了那現在川普總統又說台積電有答應他要投資2000億所以賴政府面對川普的要求選擇幾乎現在看起來是完全配合啦那請問院長我們還要移多少產業到美國去呢\n\n19\n00:06:09,029 --> 00:06:27,119\n台積公司到美國的投資這是個民間投資案政府並不是在推並不是在主導我們在善盡我們在投審方面的未來的機制嚴格的投審那他民間公司民間產業基於全球佈局他做的這個方向全球佈局的方向我們是政府是樂觀的\n\n20\n00:06:29,182 --> 00:06:40,943\n那針對賴總統所提到的希望這個談美先的所有的關稅會有零關稅開始談起喔那所以針對這個部分如果再配合全面零關稅的話會影響政府多少的收入呢\n\n21\n00:06:41,400 --> 00:07:04,599\n因為現在台灣輸美的已經有70%就是零關稅美國輸台有62%62%是零關稅所以我們是有這樣的基礎可以繼續的擴大但是不是一夕之間一夕之間如果照賴總統在彭博的投書的話從零關稅談起那如果真的都是零關稅的話會影響政府多少的收入我們現在目前對美國的收入\n\n22\n00:07:07,280 --> 00:07:14,621\n將來現在是大概7點多億左右未來對我們會增加到100多億但美國我們就從這樣反算就是\n\n23\n00:07:14,946 --> 00:07:32,560\n也就是說如果未來是零關稅的話不管是對農產品我方的負擔其實影響的層面應該不止這樣子而且會有更大的影響產業的關稅本身的數字跟產業是不一樣的所以現在農漁業農漁民其實還有一些這個傳產其實大家壓力都很大農漁業的這個關稅目前農漁業我們是逆差的所以這個在談判的過程當中當然要表達出來因為台灣對於美國的這個\n\n24\n00:07:43,937 --> 00:08:06,848\n糧食的進口是多的因為我剛才提到白宮的經濟顧問明倫他在4月7號有發表一個演說幫助美國五途徑那請院長看一下他針對這五個途徑請問我們認同美方提出的五個途徑的做法嗎那我們打算接受哪五項呢\n\n25\n00:08:09,682 --> 00:08:30,675\n這不變在這裡講說現在我們談判要接受不接受未來我們由政府院長領軍跟其他部會首長加上我們談判辦公室所以針對這五項的目前的這個五項途徑啦我想不管是說出口產品要接受美國關稅同時不開徵報復性關稅甚至要提高國防支出跟美國軍購我們先從\n\n26\n00:08:31,335 --> 00:08:49,480\n提高國防支出跟美國經過這點來看齊我們看一下美國希望我希望我方提出軍事的支出其實從不管從GDP的3.55%10%我們都有聽到這樣子的一個的說法那我們可以看一下你現在可以看一下這個表格就是說我們就從\n\n27\n00:08:50,861 --> 00:09:04,391\n114年度的明目GDP就是26兆8000以來當作推估值那我國的軍費支出呢從現在今年度如果是2.45%來算的話是6474億元那如果照講的話3%的話就來到8040億元3.5%的話是9380億元5%的話就是1兆3400億元那其實\n\n28\n00:09:16,861 --> 00:09:28,352\n賴總統說到對這個美國擴大採購包括能源農產品跟其他工業用品那所謂的其他工業用品有沒有包含軍事採購一般在算貿易的\n\n29\n00:09:29,971 --> 00:09:52,863\n數字裡面軍事採購是會被排除?是沒有嘛對也就是說軍事採購並不會列入這樣的貿易的計算所以如果再加上這些軍事採購的話事實上也沒有辦法降低我們對美國的貿易的順差所以針對這個部分請問院長對於美國的軍事採購啊每年大概要增加多少的支出才能夠符合美方的要求呢?\n\n30\n00:09:54,004 --> 00:10:12,359\n如果照今年的中央總預算算起來大概一千兩三百億到一千五百億之間才能達到百分之三請問一下如果我們現在看到的就是今年我們是因為本來是有國防的支出預算大概是四千六百七十四億特種基金八百零六億特別預算九百零四億\n\n31\n00:10:13,420 --> 00:10:38,153\n這樣才有6474億元的這樣子的一個這個我們的國防支出但如果要提高到GDP5%的話大概需要一兆3400億也就是要增加6926億那以現在如果沒有特別預算來支應的話我們可能會去排擠到的可能就是社會福利支出教育科學支出還有文化支出經濟發展的支出才能夠足以因應那請問院長\n\n32\n00:10:39,414 --> 00:10:53,736\n如果沒有特別預算的話會從哪裡去減少這些預算的指引呢報告委員我們今年並沒有對外說或是我們準備要朝向GDP5%的這個數字是那如果在談判的過程中川普這樣要求呢\n\n33\n00:10:54,349 --> 00:11:07,014\n我們不能為對方設想他的想法也就是說當有這樣的可能的時候我覺得我們這個左院長所領導的這個部會還是應該要了解清楚是不是有這樣的一個問題那另外就是針對賴總統在這個投書的第五項他說\n\n34\n00:11:11,036 --> 00:11:38,362\n台灣將致力排除非關稅貿易障礙那當然我們可以想到就是說賴清德總統說要致力排除非關稅貿易障礙是不是要開放美豬美牛還可以不標示產地呢剛剛我一直在提到這樣的相關問題我是這樣的答覆我是認為國民的健康安全重要我們的市場的消費習慣也重要但是如果\n\n35\n00:11:39,209 --> 00:11:57,590\n台灣是國際社會的一份子有國際的標準跟科學的認證我們必須在當中取得一個平衡但是前兩個原則我們會謹守所以前兩個原則是指說不會開放美豬美牛全面進口也不會開放說不標示產地是這樣嗎現在已經有開放一部分了不標示產地這件事\n\n36\n00:11:58,178 --> 00:12:16,027\n這是我們消費的習慣我覺得這個可以所以院長是不是可以在這邊告訴大家我們不會開放不標示產地也不會開放基改食品進入校園我們剛剛好幾位委員都提到表示大家都非常關心他都尊重我們行政院談判的\n\n37\n00:12:17,108 --> 00:12:19,651\n這種策略那我們現在正在準備談判過程當中所以院長的意思是說要犧牲國人的食安健康還有學童的健康嗎沒有這樣的講法我說我們在國人的健康跟市場的消費習慣當中我們會謹守\n\n38\n00:12:32,185 --> 00:12:41,516\n但談判的過程當中我們現在距離歷程其實我覺得食安跟健康尤其是學童的健康是絕對不能退讓的也絕對不能讓步的所以請院長針對這個部分一定要謹守我們的原則絕對不能犧牲國人的食安跟犧牲國人的健康\n\n39\n00:12:50,182 --> 00:13:06,435\n然後另外就是有關這個農業的剛剛提到嘛就說我們今年的這個去年的農業利差大概是到新台幣990億元那我們可以看一下這個表格大概我們蝴蝶蘭跟台灣貂這個出口到美國是最多的兩項產品\n\n40\n00:13:07,836 --> 00:13:20,347\n那尤其是蝴蝶藍大概是對美國出口的產值大概佔出口市場的四成達到18.3億也是最大的買主那台灣貂大概有79%外銷的79%是銷往美國那在美國宣布關稅政策暫緩之前已經有業者反映\n\n41\n00:13:27,553 --> 00:13:50,075\n蘇美的訂單有出現延遲或取消的一個狀況那現在雖然這個暫緩90天但是因為我們還是被課徵10%的這個稅額請問一下院長就是農產品的毛利率它本來就不高那如果這10%的稅額再課徵下去可能會讓我們的很多的農漁的產業沒有辦法度過這次的危機請問政府有什麼具體的做法來幫助他們\n\n42\n00:13:51,875 --> 00:14:07,647\n我跟委員報告就是以現在目前的10%或之前的32%那農業部本身一個最重要在短期之間最重要的就是我們的相關的這些外銷的跟外銷有關的行銷跟獎勵的部分那同樣的\n\n43\n00:14:09,068 --> 00:14:30,398\n在10%的前提之下其實我們最主要的競爭對手是中國所以相對的中國的關稅比我們高的時候其實我們更有機會去針對美國的市場做一個重新的佈局那這個部分在前兩天在跟吳國瑜業者本身在討論的時候他們都認同這樣的方式所以後續我們會再討論現在大家比較擔心的是賴總統說的要從零關稅談起這個部分\n\n44\n00:14:33,519 --> 00:14:48,969\n所以也希望院長可以在這邊承諾就是政府在談判的過程中絕對不會犧牲農漁漁民的權益可以嗎農漁優先是政府一項的原則那以國家利益為唯一這也是談判過程當中要謹守謝謝院長的這個承諾\n\n45\n00:14:51,090 --> 00:15:10,664\n那另外就是我想我們這次是中央跟地方大家一起要攜手面對挑戰因為這次可以真的說是國難當前所以我們也希望所有政治的內耗都能夠停止所以在這邊我們也具體的建議希望賴總統能夠近日早日的召開我們的國事會議\n\n46\n00:15:11,565 --> 00:15:20,464\n可以邀請我們朝野政黨的領袖還有一些縣市長、專家、學者跟產業代表大家一起來共同的討論共商國事謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4609\t8871\t謝謝主席我們請卓榮泰卓院長請卓院長備詢徐文豪\n18837\t41051\t院長好 院長您辛苦了我們現在面對有史以來最嚴重的一個貿易戰尤其是我們在去年對美的貿易順差達到739億美元 排名第六所以川普總統才會提出對等關稅這樣的一個要求當然台灣除了關稅戰之外其實還面臨了四大的挑戰\n42971\t66389\t關稅戰當然我們的平均關稅大概是1.6%雖然現在暫緩但也大幅提升到10%對於我的中小企業他們的毛利率大概只有3、4%來說也造成極大的壓力第二個就是國防支出因為我們的國防預算被要求提高到有GDP3.55甚至10%的一個說法那第三個是匯率戰就是\n67950\t75957\t經濟顧問委員會的米倫他有提到說新台幣希望能夠升值到20%可是實際上只要升值到10%的話我國的產業可能就沒有辦法負荷另外還有美債的風險就是我們現在外匯存底大概5700億大概有\n86106\t98945\t九成當然央行總裁是提到說是八成啦不管是八成還是九成配置美債其實資產的安全都備受關注請問一下卓院長請問面對這四大挑戰賴政府準備好了嗎\n101035\t116265\t首先對於關稅戰的這個議題我們剛剛在專案報告裡面提到了相關那麼國防的支出我一直強調依照我們財政的能力跟國家國防的需求那總統也提示要GDP3%\n117626\t141892\t這個目標來走所以要一時間說到5%我想這個能力上應該還有有所考量至於匯率戰我們請先接的下來有心理有預期將來的匯率可能是一場也是相當相當艱辛的互相的搏鬥而且是整個全世界也是影響很大的但我國一直對匯率不是一個高度政府去操縱的國家我們也有他的匯率自由的市場所以央行的責任在\n143172\t165700\t長期穩定的觀察整個匯率穩定市場的運作而不是去干涉因為現在美國要求我們可能未來的美債要用舊換新甚至能達到零利率最後甚至可能還要支付一些所謂相關的安全捐那這個部分的話對我們的這個外匯存底應該有很大的影響總裁來答覆好 總裁你請說我跟委員報告就是說這個只是說是\n167901\t183035\t報導我跟委員報告每年我們都會跟美國的財政部就美債的議題我們會互相交換意見這個部分就請總裁針對我現在是提出來有這樣子的一個可能挑戰請總裁針對這個議題我相信要好\n185257\t211165\t好好的來為我國的這個委會存體把關那另外就是我想請教一下這個院長就是說因為其實我們跟美國談判我們一定要知道川普總統在想什麼要什麼請問院長這邊知道川普總統要什麼嗎他透過這一次的對等關稅我認為他是要讓美國再工業化他的目的他的手法透過這樣子希望是達到\n213504\t222443\t關稅 貿易的平衡跟消除這些不公平就是貿易能夠讓它逆差能夠降低另外就是能夠排除各國之間跟它的非關稅的貿易障礙\n224173\t246765\t針對這個部分我也有四個觀點來跟院長一起分享首先我認為川普他要的是要解決美國赤字的問題另外他也希望能夠降低美國通膨跟改善經濟的問題還有他的股市還有美國債券現在當然利息支出太高的相關問題當然還有就是跟中國的貿易相關的問題所以針對這些問題我相信我們在跟美國談判的時候\n252689\t260606\t應該是有掌握確切的一個方向才能夠談出好的結果請問院長認不認同從去年我們成立的關於\n261834\t284014\t經貿外交工作小組以及台美經貿專案小組就一直鎖定美方的政策上可能的做一些改變就一直鎖定這些但是他到今天還是有一些變動的所以我們是持續變動的在觀察也在掌握我們期待在最好的時機我們的代表團能夠代表國家最大的利益把出我們整套的方案策略跟大家談\n284614\t297388\t那個就代表一個國家最終的態度談的結果雙方當然要有一些折衝當然要有一些討論那請問一下院長你認為川普總統他這次所提出的關稅的做法合乎公平貿易的準則嗎\n299151\t319245\t我說他就是用一個公式一個算法算出一個結果他並沒有考慮個別國家跟他之間的因為好像跟我們傳統認知的公民貿易有很大的一個落差嘛所以您認同他這個是合乎我們現在公民貿易的準則嗎那也有委員指出他的計算的方式是不是還要有一些更精進的部分但是很多的\n319625\t339066\t經濟學者也是有這樣的看法但是我們賴總統在彭博社的投書當中我們可以看到他有四項具體的回應當然我們面對這樣子美國的不公平的對待的時候其實我們原則上應該是要選擇怎麼去\n341595\t368090\t協商嘛而不是選擇妥協那當然我們目前賴政府面對川普的要求選擇要不管是台積電已經到美國去投資1650億了那現在川普總統又說台積電有答應他要投資2000億所以賴政府面對川普的要求選擇幾乎現在看起來是完全配合啦那請問院長我們還要移多少產業到美國去呢\n369029\t387119\t台積公司到美國的投資這是個民間投資案政府並不是在推並不是在主導我們在善盡我們在投審方面的未來的機制嚴格的投審那他民間公司民間產業基於全球佈局他做的這個方向全球佈局的方向我們是政府是樂觀的\n389182\t400943\t那針對賴總統所提到的希望這個談美先的所有的關稅會有零關稅開始談起喔那所以針對這個部分如果再配合全面零關稅的話會影響政府多少的收入呢\n401400\t424599\t因為現在台灣輸美的已經有70%就是零關稅美國輸台有62%62%是零關稅所以我們是有這樣的基礎可以繼續的擴大但是不是一夕之間一夕之間如果照賴總統在彭博的投書的話從零關稅談起那如果真的都是零關稅的話會影響政府多少的收入我們現在目前對美國的收入\n427280\t434621\t將來現在是大概7點多億左右未來對我們會增加到100多億但美國我們就從這樣反算就是\n434946\t452560\t也就是說如果未來是零關稅的話不管是對農產品我方的負擔其實影響的層面應該不止這樣子而且會有更大的影響產業的關稅本身的數字跟產業是不一樣的所以現在農漁業 農漁民其實還有一些這個傳產其實大家壓力都很大農漁業的這個關稅目前農漁業我們是逆差的所以這個在談判的過程當中當然要表達出來因為台灣對於美國的這個\n463937\t486848\t糧食的進口是多的因為我剛才提到白宮的經濟顧問明倫他在4月7號有發表一個演說幫助美國五途徑那請院長看一下他針對這五個途徑請問我們認同美方提出的五個途徑的做法嗎那我們打算接受哪五項呢\n489682\t510675\t這不變在這裡講說現在我們談判要接受不接受未來我們由政府院長領軍跟其他部會首長加上我們談判辦公室所以針對這五項的目前的這個五項途徑啦我想不管是說出口產品要接受美國關稅同時不開徵報復性關稅甚至要提高國防支出跟美國軍購我們先從\n511335\t529480\t提高國防支出跟美國經過這點來看齊我們看一下美國希望我希望我方提出軍事的支出其實從不管從GDP的3.5 5% 10%我們都有聽到這樣子的一個的說法那我們可以看一下你現在可以看一下這個表格就是說我們就從\n530861\t544391\t114年度的明目GDP就是26兆8000以來當作推估值那我國的軍費支出呢從現在今年度如果是2.45%來算的話是6474億元那如果照講的話3%的話就來到8040億元3.5%的話是9380億元5%的話就是1兆3400億元那其實\n556861\t568352\t賴總統說到對這個美國擴大採購包括能源農產品跟其他工業用品那所謂的其他工業用品有沒有包含軍事採購一般在算貿易的\n569971\t592863\t數字裡面軍事採購是會被排除?是沒有嘛 對也就是說軍事採購並不會列入這樣的貿易的計算所以如果再加上這些軍事採購的話事實上也沒有辦法降低我們對美國的貿易的順差所以針對這個部分請問院長對於美國的軍事採購啊每年大概要增加多少的支出才能夠符合美方的要求呢?\n594004\t612359\t如果照今年的中央總預算算起來大概一千兩三百億到一千五百億之間才能達到百分之三請問一下如果我們現在看到的就是今年我們是因為本來是有國防的支出預算大概是四千六百七十四億特種基金八百零六億特別預算九百零四億\n613420\t638153\t這樣才有6474億元的這樣子的一個這個我們的國防支出但如果要提高到GDP5%的話大概需要一兆3400億也就是要增加6926億那以現在如果沒有特別預算來支應的話我們可能會去排擠到的可能就是社會福利支出教育科學支出還有文化支出經濟發展的支出才能夠足以因應那請問院長\n639414\t653736\t如果沒有特別預算的話會從哪裡去減少這些預算的指引呢報告委員我們今年並沒有對外說或是我們準備要朝向GDP5%的這個數字是那如果在談判的過程中川普這樣要求呢\n654349\t667014\t我們不能為對方設想他的想法也就是說當有這樣的可能的時候我覺得我們這個左院長所領導的這個部會還是應該要了解清楚是不是有這樣的一個問題那另外就是針對賴總統在這個投書的第五項他說\n671036\t698362\t台灣將致力排除非關稅貿易障礙那當然我們可以想到就是說賴清德總統說要致力排除非關稅貿易障礙是不是要開放美豬美牛還可以不標示產地呢剛剛我一直在提到這樣的相關問題我是這樣的答覆我是認為國民的健康安全重要我們的市場的消費習慣也重要但是如果\n699209\t717590\t台灣是國際社會的一份子有國際的標準跟科學的認證我們必須在當中取得一個平衡但是前兩個原則我們會謹守所以前兩個原則是指說不會開放美豬美牛全面進口也不會開放說不標示產地是這樣嗎現在已經有開放一部分了不標示產地這件事\n718178\t736027\t這是我們消費的習慣我覺得這個可以所以院長是不是可以在這邊告訴大家我們不會開放不標示產地也不會開放基改食品進入校園我們剛剛好幾位委員都提到表示大家都非常關心他都尊重我們行政院談判的\n737108\t739651\t這種策略那我們現在正在準備談判過程當中所以院長的意思是說要犧牲國人的食安健康還有學童的健康嗎沒有這樣的講法我說我們在國人的健康跟市場的消費習慣當中我們會謹守\n752185\t761516\t但談判的過程當中我們現在距離歷程其實我覺得食安跟健康尤其是學童的健康是絕對不能退讓的也絕對不能讓步的所以請院長針對這個部分一定要謹守我們的原則絕對不能犧牲國人的食安跟犧牲國人的健康\n770182\t786435\t然後另外就是有關這個農業的剛剛提到嘛就說我們今年的這個去年的農業利差大概是到新台幣990億元那我們可以看一下這個表格大概我們蝴蝶蘭跟台灣貂這個出口到美國是最多的兩項產品\n787836\t800347\t那尤其是蝴蝶藍大概是對美國出口的產值大概佔出口市場的四成達到18.3億也是最大的買主那台灣貂大概有79%外銷的79%是銷往美國那在美國宣布關稅政策暫緩之前已經有業者反映\n807553\t830075\t蘇美的訂單有出現延遲或取消的一個狀況那現在雖然這個暫緩90天但是因為我們還是被課徵10%的這個稅額請問一下院長就是農產品的毛利率它本來就不高那如果這10%的稅額再課徵下去可能會讓我們的很多的農漁的產業沒有辦法度過這次的危機請問政府有什麼具體的做法來幫助他們\n831875\t847647\t我跟委員報告就是以現在目前的10%或之前的32%那農業部本身一個最重要在短期之間最重要的就是我們的相關的這些外銷的跟外銷有關的行銷跟獎勵的部分那同樣的\n849068\t870398\t在10%的前提之下其實我們最主要的競爭對手是中國所以相對的中國的關稅比我們高的時候其實我們更有機會去針對美國的市場做一個重新的佈局那這個部分在前兩天在跟吳國瑜業者本身在討論的時候他們都認同這樣的方式所以後續我們會再討論現在大家比較擔心的是賴總統說的要從零關稅談起這個部分\n873519\t888969\t所以也希望院長可以在這邊承諾就是政府在談判的過程中絕對不會犧牲農漁漁民的權益可以嗎農漁優先是政府一項的原則那以國家利益為唯一這也是談判過程當中要謹守謝謝院長的這個承諾\n891090\t910664\t那另外就是我想我們這次是中央跟地方大家一起要攜手面對挑戰因為這次可以真的說是國難當前所以我們也希望所有政治的內耗都能夠停止所以在這邊我們也具體的建議希望賴總統能夠近日早日的召開我們的國事會議\n911565\t920464\t可以邀請我們朝野政黨的領袖還有一些縣市長、專家、學者跟產業代表大家一起來共同的討論共商國事謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席我們請卓榮泰卓院長請卓院長備詢徐文豪\n院長好 院長您辛苦了我們現在面對有史以來最嚴重的一個貿易戰尤其是我們在去年對美的貿易順差達到739億美元 排名第六所以川普總統才會提出對等關稅這樣的一個要求當然台灣除了關稅戰之外其實還面臨了四大的挑戰\n關稅戰當然我們的平均關稅大概是1.6%雖然現在暫緩但也大幅提升到10%對於我的中小企業他們的毛利率大概只有3、4%來說也造成極大的壓力第二個就是國防支出因為我們的國防預算被要求提高到有GDP3.55甚至10%的一個說法那第三個是匯率戰就是\n經濟顧問委員會的米倫他有提到說新台幣希望能夠升值到20%可是實際上只要升值到10%的話我國的產業可能就沒有辦法負荷另外還有美債的風險就是我們現在外匯存底大概5700億大概有\n九成當然央行總裁是提到說是八成啦不管是八成還是九成配置美債其實資產的安全都備受關注請問一下卓院長請問面對這四大挑戰賴政府準備好了嗎\n首先對於關稅戰的這個議題我們剛剛在專案報告裡面提到了相關那麼國防的支出我一直強調依照我們財政的能力跟國家國防的需求那總統也提示要GDP3%\n這個目標來走所以要一時間說到5%我想這個能力上應該還有有所考量至於匯率戰我們請先接的下來有心理有預期將來的匯率可能是一場也是相當相當艱辛的互相的搏鬥而且是整個全世界也是影響很大的但我國一直對匯率不是一個高度政府去操縱的國家我們也有他的匯率自由的市場所以央行的責任在\n長期穩定的觀察整個匯率穩定市場的運作而不是去干涉因為現在美國要求我們可能未來的美債要用舊換新甚至能達到零利率最後甚至可能還要支付一些所謂相關的安全捐那這個部分的話對我們的這個外匯存底應該有很大的影響總裁來答覆好 總裁你請說我跟委員報告就是說這個只是說是\n報導我跟委員報告每年我們都會跟美國的財政部就美債的議題我們會互相交換意見這個部分就請總裁針對我現在是提出來有這樣子的一個可能挑戰請總裁針對這個議題我相信要好\n好好的來為我國的這個委會存體把關那另外就是我想請教一下這個院長就是說因為其實我們跟美國談判我們一定要知道川普總統在想什麼要什麼請問院長這邊知道川普總統要什麼嗎他透過這一次的對等關稅我認為他是要讓美國再工業化他的目的他的手法透過這樣子希望是達到\n關稅 貿易的平衡跟消除這些不公平就是貿易能夠讓它逆差能夠降低另外就是能夠排除各國之間跟它的非關稅的貿易障礙\n針對這個部分我也有四個觀點來跟院長一起分享首先我認為川普他要的是要解決美國赤字的問題另外他也希望能夠降低美國通膨跟改善經濟的問題還有他的股市還有美國債券現在當然利息支出太高的相關問題當然還有就是跟中國的貿易相關的問題所以針對這些問題我相信我們在跟美國談判的時候\n應該是有掌握確切的一個方向才能夠談出好的結果請問院長認不認同從去年我們成立的關於\n經貿外交工作小組以及台美經貿專案小組就一直鎖定美方的政策上可能的做一些改變就一直鎖定這些但是他到今天還是有一些變動的所以我們是持續變動的在觀察也在掌握我們期待在最好的時機我們的代表團能夠代表國家最大的利益把出我們整套的方案策略跟大家談\n那個就代表一個國家最終的態度談的結果雙方當然要有一些折衝當然要有一些討論那請問一下院長你認為川普總統他這次所提出的關稅的做法合乎公平貿易的準則嗎\n我說他就是用一個公式一個算法算出一個結果他並沒有考慮個別國家跟他之間的因為好像跟我們傳統認知的公民貿易有很大的一個落差嘛所以您認同他這個是合乎我們現在公民貿易的準則嗎那也有委員指出他的計算的方式是不是還要有一些更精進的部分但是很多的\n經濟學者也是有這樣的看法但是我們賴總統在彭博社的投書當中我們可以看到他有四項具體的回應當然我們面對這樣子美國的不公平的對待的時候其實我們原則上應該是要選擇怎麼去\n協商嘛而不是選擇妥協那當然我們目前賴政府面對川普的要求選擇要不管是台積電已經到美國去投資1650億了那現在川普總統又說台積電有答應他要投資2000億所以賴政府面對川普的要求選擇幾乎現在看起來是完全配合啦那請問院長我們還要移多少產業到美國去呢\n台積公司到美國的投資這是個民間投資案政府並不是在推並不是在主導我們在善盡我們在投審方面的未來的機制嚴格的投審那他民間公司民間產業基於全球佈局他做的這個方向全球佈局的方向我們是政府是樂觀的\n那針對賴總統所提到的希望這個談美先的所有的關稅會有零關稅開始談起喔那所以針對這個部分如果再配合全面零關稅的話會影響政府多少的收入呢\n因為現在台灣輸美的已經有70%就是零關稅美國輸台有62%62%是零關稅所以我們是有這樣的基礎可以繼續的擴大但是不是一夕之間一夕之間如果照賴總統在彭博的投書的話從零關稅談起那如果真的都是零關稅的話會影響政府多少的收入我們現在目前對美國的收入\n將來現在是大概7點多億左右未來對我們會增加到100多億但美國我們就從這樣反算就是\n也就是說如果未來是零關稅的話不管是對農產品我方的負擔其實影響的層面應該不止這樣子而且會有更大的影響產業的關稅本身的數字跟產業是不一樣的所以現在農漁業 農漁民其實還有一些這個傳產其實大家壓力都很大農漁業的這個關稅目前農漁業我們是逆差的所以這個在談判的過程當中當然要表達出來因為台灣對於美國的這個\n糧食的進口是多的因為我剛才提到白宮的經濟顧問明倫他在4月7號有發表一個演說幫助美國五途徑那請院長看一下他針對這五個途徑請問我們認同美方提出的五個途徑的做法嗎那我們打算接受哪五項呢\n這不變在這裡講說現在我們談判要接受不接受未來我們由政府院長領軍跟其他部會首長加上我們談判辦公室所以針對這五項的目前的這個五項途徑啦我想不管是說出口產品要接受美國關稅同時不開徵報復性關稅甚至要提高國防支出跟美國軍購我們先從\n提高國防支出跟美國經過這點來看齊我們看一下美國希望我希望我方提出軍事的支出其實從不管從GDP的3.5 5% 10%我們都有聽到這樣子的一個的說法那我們可以看一下你現在可以看一下這個表格就是說我們就從\n114年度的明目GDP就是26兆8000以來當作推估值那我國的軍費支出呢從現在今年度如果是2.45%來算的話是6474億元那如果照講的話3%的話就來到8040億元3.5%的話是9380億元5%的話就是1兆3400億元那其實\n賴總統說到對這個美國擴大採購包括能源農產品跟其他工業用品那所謂的其他工業用品有沒有包含軍事採購一般在算貿易的\n數字裡面軍事採購是會被排除?是沒有嘛 對也就是說軍事採購並不會列入這樣的貿易的計算所以如果再加上這些軍事採購的話事實上也沒有辦法降低我們對美國的貿易的順差所以針對這個部分請問院長對於美國的軍事採購啊每年大概要增加多少的支出才能夠符合美方的要求呢?\n如果照今年的中央總預算算起來大概一千兩三百億到一千五百億之間才能達到百分之三請問一下如果我們現在看到的就是今年我們是因為本來是有國防的支出預算大概是四千六百七十四億特種基金八百零六億特別預算九百零四億\n這樣才有6474億元的這樣子的一個這個我們的國防支出但如果要提高到GDP5%的話大概需要一兆3400億也就是要增加6926億那以現在如果沒有特別預算來支應的話我們可能會去排擠到的可能就是社會福利支出教育科學支出還有文化支出經濟發展的支出才能夠足以因應那請問院長\n如果沒有特別預算的話會從哪裡去減少這些預算的指引呢報告委員我們今年並沒有對外說或是我們準備要朝向GDP5%的這個數字是那如果在談判的過程中川普這樣要求呢\n我們不能為對方設想他的想法也就是說當有這樣的可能的時候我覺得我們這個左院長所領導的這個部會還是應該要了解清楚是不是有這樣的一個問題那另外就是針對賴總統在這個投書的第五項他說\n台灣將致力排除非關稅貿易障礙那當然我們可以想到就是說賴清德總統說要致力排除非關稅貿易障礙是不是要開放美豬美牛還可以不標示產地呢剛剛我一直在提到這樣的相關問題我是這樣的答覆我是認為國民的健康安全重要我們的市場的消費習慣也重要但是如果\n台灣是國際社會的一份子有國際的標準跟科學的認證我們必須在當中取得一個平衡但是前兩個原則我們會謹守所以前兩個原則是指說不會開放美豬美牛全面進口也不會開放說不標示產地是這樣嗎現在已經有開放一部分了不標示產地這件事\n這是我們消費的習慣我覺得這個可以所以院長是不是可以在這邊告訴大家我們不會開放不標示產地也不會開放基改食品進入校園我們剛剛好幾位委員都提到表示大家都非常關心他都尊重我們行政院談判的\n這種策略那我們現在正在準備談判過程當中所以院長的意思是說要犧牲國人的食安健康還有學童的健康嗎沒有這樣的講法我說我們在國人的健康跟市場的消費習慣當中我們會謹守\n但談判的過程當中我們現在距離歷程其實我覺得食安跟健康尤其是學童的健康是絕對不能退讓的也絕對不能讓步的所以請院長針對這個部分一定要謹守我們的原則絕對不能犧牲國人的食安跟犧牲國人的健康\n然後另外就是有關這個農業的剛剛提到嘛就說我們今年的這個去年的農業利差大概是到新台幣990億元那我們可以看一下這個表格大概我們蝴蝶蘭跟台灣貂這個出口到美國是最多的兩項產品\n那尤其是蝴蝶藍大概是對美國出口的產值大概佔出口市場的四成達到18.3億也是最大的買主那台灣貂大概有79%外銷的79%是銷往美國那在美國宣布關稅政策暫緩之前已經有業者反映\n蘇美的訂單有出現延遲或取消的一個狀況那現在雖然這個暫緩90天但是因為我們還是被課徵10%的這個稅額請問一下院長就是農產品的毛利率它本來就不高那如果這10%的稅額再課徵下去可能會讓我們的很多的農漁的產業沒有辦法度過這次的危機請問政府有什麼具體的做法來幫助他們\n我跟委員報告就是以現在目前的10%或之前的32%那農業部本身一個最重要在短期之間最重要的就是我們的相關的這些外銷的跟外銷有關的行銷跟獎勵的部分那同樣的\n在10%的前提之下其實我們最主要的競爭對手是中國所以相對的中國的關稅比我們高的時候其實我們更有機會去針對美國的市場做一個重新的佈局那這個部分在前兩天在跟吳國瑜業者本身在討論的時候他們都認同這樣的方式所以後續我們會再討論現在大家比較擔心的是賴總統說的要從零關稅談起這個部分\n所以也希望院長可以在這邊承諾就是政府在談判的過程中絕對不會犧牲農漁漁民的權益可以嗎農漁優先是政府一項的原則那以國家利益為唯一這也是談判過程當中要謹守謝謝院長的這個承諾\n那另外就是我想我們這次是中央跟地方大家一起要攜手面對挑戰因為這次可以真的說是國難當前所以我們也希望所有政治的內耗都能夠停止所以在這邊我們也具體的建議希望賴總統能夠近日早日的召開我們的國事會議\n可以邀請我們朝野政黨的領袖還有一些縣市長、專家、學者跟產業代表大家一起來共同的討論共商國事謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.609 --> 00:08.871\n謝謝主席我們請卓榮泰卓院長請卓院長備詢徐文豪\n\n00:18.837 --> 00:41.051\n院長好院長您辛苦了我們現在面對有史以來最嚴重的一個貿易戰尤其是我們在去年對美的貿易順差達到739億美元排名第六所以川普總統才會提出對等關稅這樣的一個要求當然台灣除了關稅戰之外其實還面臨了四大的挑戰\n\n00:42.971 --> 01:06.389\n關稅戰當然我們的平均關稅大概是1.6%雖然現在暫緩但也大幅提升到10%對於我的中小企業他們的毛利率大概只有3、4%來說也造成極大的壓力第二個就是國防支出因為我們的國防預算被要求提高到有GDP3.55甚至10%的一個說法那第三個是匯率戰就是\n\n01:07.950 --> 01:15.957\n經濟顧問委員會的米倫他有提到說新台幣希望能夠升值到20%可是實際上只要升值到10%的話我國的產業可能就沒有辦法負荷另外還有美債的風險就是我們現在外匯存底大概5700億大概有\n\n01:26.106 --> 01:38.945\n九成當然央行總裁是提到說是八成啦不管是八成還是九成配置美債其實資產的安全都備受關注請問一下卓院長請問面對這四大挑戰賴政府準備好了嗎\n\n01:41.035 --> 01:56.265\n首先對於關稅戰的這個議題我們剛剛在專案報告裡面提到了相關那麼國防的支出我一直強調依照我們財政的能力跟國家國防的需求那總統也提示要GDP3%\n\n01:57.626 --> 02:21.892\n這個目標來走所以要一時間說到5%我想這個能力上應該還有有所考量至於匯率戰我們請先接的下來有心理有預期將來的匯率可能是一場也是相當相當艱辛的互相的搏鬥而且是整個全世界也是影響很大的但我國一直對匯率不是一個高度政府去操縱的國家我們也有他的匯率自由的市場所以央行的責任在\n\n02:23.172 --> 02:45.700\n長期穩定的觀察整個匯率穩定市場的運作而不是去干涉因為現在美國要求我們可能未來的美債要用舊換新甚至能達到零利率最後甚至可能還要支付一些所謂相關的安全捐那這個部分的話對我們的這個外匯存底應該有很大的影響總裁來答覆好總裁你請說我跟委員報告就是說這個只是說是\n\n02:47.901 --> 03:03.035\n報導我跟委員報告每年我們都會跟美國的財政部就美債的議題我們會互相交換意見這個部分就請總裁針對我現在是提出來有這樣子的一個可能挑戰請總裁針對這個議題我相信要好\n\n03:05.257 --> 03:31.165\n好好的來為我國的這個委會存體把關那另外就是我想請教一下這個院長就是說因為其實我們跟美國談判我們一定要知道川普總統在想什麼要什麼請問院長這邊知道川普總統要什麼嗎他透過這一次的對等關稅我認為他是要讓美國再工業化他的目的他的手法透過這樣子希望是達到\n\n03:33.504 --> 03:42.443\n關稅貿易的平衡跟消除這些不公平就是貿易能夠讓它逆差能夠降低另外就是能夠排除各國之間跟它的非關稅的貿易障礙\n\n03:44.173 --> 04:06.765\n針對這個部分我也有四個觀點來跟院長一起分享首先我認為川普他要的是要解決美國赤字的問題另外他也希望能夠降低美國通膨跟改善經濟的問題還有他的股市還有美國債券現在當然利息支出太高的相關問題當然還有就是跟中國的貿易相關的問題所以針對這些問題我相信我們在跟美國談判的時候\n\n04:12.689 --> 04:20.606\n應該是有掌握確切的一個方向才能夠談出好的結果請問院長認不認同從去年我們成立的關於\n\n04:21.834 --> 04:44.014\n經貿外交工作小組以及台美經貿專案小組就一直鎖定美方的政策上可能的做一些改變就一直鎖定這些但是他到今天還是有一些變動的所以我們是持續變動的在觀察也在掌握我們期待在最好的時機我們的代表團能夠代表國家最大的利益把出我們整套的方案策略跟大家談\n\n04:44.614 --> 04:57.388\n那個就代表一個國家最終的態度談的結果雙方當然要有一些折衝當然要有一些討論那請問一下院長你認為川普總統他這次所提出的關稅的做法合乎公平貿易的準則嗎\n\n04:59.151 --> 05:19.245\n我說他就是用一個公式一個算法算出一個結果他並沒有考慮個別國家跟他之間的因為好像跟我們傳統認知的公民貿易有很大的一個落差嘛所以您認同他這個是合乎我們現在公民貿易的準則嗎那也有委員指出他的計算的方式是不是還要有一些更精進的部分但是很多的\n\n05:19.625 --> 05:39.066\n經濟學者也是有這樣的看法但是我們賴總統在彭博社的投書當中我們可以看到他有四項具體的回應當然我們面對這樣子美國的不公平的對待的時候其實我們原則上應該是要選擇怎麼去\n\n05:41.595 --> 06:08.090\n協商嘛而不是選擇妥協那當然我們目前賴政府面對川普的要求選擇要不管是台積電已經到美國去投資1650億了那現在川普總統又說台積電有答應他要投資2000億所以賴政府面對川普的要求選擇幾乎現在看起來是完全配合啦那請問院長我們還要移多少產業到美國去呢\n\n06:09.029 --> 06:27.119\n台積公司到美國的投資這是個民間投資案政府並不是在推並不是在主導我們在善盡我們在投審方面的未來的機制嚴格的投審那他民間公司民間產業基於全球佈局他做的這個方向全球佈局的方向我們是政府是樂觀的\n\n06:29.182 --> 06:40.943\n那針對賴總統所提到的希望這個談美先的所有的關稅會有零關稅開始談起喔那所以針對這個部分如果再配合全面零關稅的話會影響政府多少的收入呢\n\n06:41.400 --> 07:04.599\n因為現在台灣輸美的已經有70%就是零關稅美國輸台有62%62%是零關稅所以我們是有這樣的基礎可以繼續的擴大但是不是一夕之間一夕之間如果照賴總統在彭博的投書的話從零關稅談起那如果真的都是零關稅的話會影響政府多少的收入我們現在目前對美國的收入\n\n07:07.280 --> 07:14.621\n將來現在是大概7點多億左右未來對我們會增加到100多億但美國我們就從這樣反算就是\n\n07:14.946 --> 07:32.560\n也就是說如果未來是零關稅的話不管是對農產品我方的負擔其實影響的層面應該不止這樣子而且會有更大的影響產業的關稅本身的數字跟產業是不一樣的所以現在農漁業農漁民其實還有一些這個傳產其實大家壓力都很大農漁業的這個關稅目前農漁業我們是逆差的所以這個在談判的過程當中當然要表達出來因為台灣對於美國的這個\n\n07:43.937 --> 08:06.848\n糧食的進口是多的因為我剛才提到白宮的經濟顧問明倫他在4月7號有發表一個演說幫助美國五途徑那請院長看一下他針對這五個途徑請問我們認同美方提出的五個途徑的做法嗎那我們打算接受哪五項呢\n\n08:09.682 --> 08:30.675\n這不變在這裡講說現在我們談判要接受不接受未來我們由政府院長領軍跟其他部會首長加上我們談判辦公室所以針對這五項的目前的這個五項途徑啦我想不管是說出口產品要接受美國關稅同時不開徵報復性關稅甚至要提高國防支出跟美國軍購我們先從\n\n08:31.335 --> 08:49.480\n提高國防支出跟美國經過這點來看齊我們看一下美國希望我希望我方提出軍事的支出其實從不管從GDP的3.55%10%我們都有聽到這樣子的一個的說法那我們可以看一下你現在可以看一下這個表格就是說我們就從\n\n08:50.861 --> 09:04.391\n114年度的明目GDP就是26兆8000以來當作推估值那我國的軍費支出呢從現在今年度如果是2.45%來算的話是6474億元那如果照講的話3%的話就來到8040億元3.5%的話是9380億元5%的話就是1兆3400億元那其實\n\n09:16.861 --> 09:28.352\n賴總統說到對這個美國擴大採購包括能源農產品跟其他工業用品那所謂的其他工業用品有沒有包含軍事採購一般在算貿易的\n\n09:29.971 --> 09:52.863\n數字裡面軍事採購是會被排除?是沒有嘛對也就是說軍事採購並不會列入這樣的貿易的計算所以如果再加上這些軍事採購的話事實上也沒有辦法降低我們對美國的貿易的順差所以針對這個部分請問院長對於美國的軍事採購啊每年大概要增加多少的支出才能夠符合美方的要求呢?\n\n09:54.004 --> 10:12.359\n如果照今年的中央總預算算起來大概一千兩三百億到一千五百億之間才能達到百分之三請問一下如果我們現在看到的就是今年我們是因為本來是有國防的支出預算大概是四千六百七十四億特種基金八百零六億特別預算九百零四億\n\n10:13.420 --> 10:38.153\n這樣才有6474億元的這樣子的一個這個我們的國防支出但如果要提高到GDP5%的話大概需要一兆3400億也就是要增加6926億那以現在如果沒有特別預算來支應的話我們可能會去排擠到的可能就是社會福利支出教育科學支出還有文化支出經濟發展的支出才能夠足以因應那請問院長\n\n10:39.414 --> 10:53.736\n如果沒有特別預算的話會從哪裡去減少這些預算的指引呢報告委員我們今年並沒有對外說或是我們準備要朝向GDP5%的這個數字是那如果在談判的過程中川普這樣要求呢\n\n10:54.349 --> 11:07.014\n我們不能為對方設想他的想法也就是說當有這樣的可能的時候我覺得我們這個左院長所領導的這個部會還是應該要了解清楚是不是有這樣的一個問題那另外就是針對賴總統在這個投書的第五項他說\n\n11:11.036 --> 11:38.362\n台灣將致力排除非關稅貿易障礙那當然我們可以想到就是說賴清德總統說要致力排除非關稅貿易障礙是不是要開放美豬美牛還可以不標示產地呢剛剛我一直在提到這樣的相關問題我是這樣的答覆我是認為國民的健康安全重要我們的市場的消費習慣也重要但是如果\n\n11:39.209 --> 11:57.590\n台灣是國際社會的一份子有國際的標準跟科學的認證我們必須在當中取得一個平衡但是前兩個原則我們會謹守所以前兩個原則是指說不會開放美豬美牛全面進口也不會開放說不標示產地是這樣嗎現在已經有開放一部分了不標示產地這件事\n\n11:58.178 --> 12:16.027\n這是我們消費的習慣我覺得這個可以所以院長是不是可以在這邊告訴大家我們不會開放不標示產地也不會開放基改食品進入校園我們剛剛好幾位委員都提到表示大家都非常關心他都尊重我們行政院談判的\n\n12:17.108 --> 12:19.651\n這種策略那我們現在正在準備談判過程當中所以院長的意思是說要犧牲國人的食安健康還有學童的健康嗎沒有這樣的講法我說我們在國人的健康跟市場的消費習慣當中我們會謹守\n\n12:32.185 --> 12:41.516\n但談判的過程當中我們現在距離歷程其實我覺得食安跟健康尤其是學童的健康是絕對不能退讓的也絕對不能讓步的所以請院長針對這個部分一定要謹守我們的原則絕對不能犧牲國人的食安跟犧牲國人的健康\n\n12:50.182 --> 13:06.435\n然後另外就是有關這個農業的剛剛提到嘛就說我們今年的這個去年的農業利差大概是到新台幣990億元那我們可以看一下這個表格大概我們蝴蝶蘭跟台灣貂這個出口到美國是最多的兩項產品\n\n13:07.836 --> 13:20.347\n那尤其是蝴蝶藍大概是對美國出口的產值大概佔出口市場的四成達到18.3億也是最大的買主那台灣貂大概有79%外銷的79%是銷往美國那在美國宣布關稅政策暫緩之前已經有業者反映\n\n13:27.553 --> 13:50.075\n蘇美的訂單有出現延遲或取消的一個狀況那現在雖然這個暫緩90天但是因為我們還是被課徵10%的這個稅額請問一下院長就是農產品的毛利率它本來就不高那如果這10%的稅額再課徵下去可能會讓我們的很多的農漁的產業沒有辦法度過這次的危機請問政府有什麼具體的做法來幫助他們\n\n13:51.875 --> 14:07.647\n我跟委員報告就是以現在目前的10%或之前的32%那農業部本身一個最重要在短期之間最重要的就是我們的相關的這些外銷的跟外銷有關的行銷跟獎勵的部分那同樣的\n\n14:09.068 --> 14:30.398\n在10%的前提之下其實我們最主要的競爭對手是中國所以相對的中國的關稅比我們高的時候其實我們更有機會去針對美國的市場做一個重新的佈局那這個部分在前兩天在跟吳國瑜業者本身在討論的時候他們都認同這樣的方式所以後續我們會再討論現在大家比較擔心的是賴總統說的要從零關稅談起這個部分\n\n14:33.519 --> 14:48.969\n所以也希望院長可以在這邊承諾就是政府在談判的過程中絕對不會犧牲農漁漁民的權益可以嗎農漁優先是政府一項的原則那以國家利益為唯一這也是談判過程當中要謹守謝謝院長的這個承諾\n\n14:51.090 --> 15:10.664\n那另外就是我想我們這次是中央跟地方大家一起要攜手面對挑戰因為這次可以真的說是國難當前所以我們也希望所有政治的內耗都能夠停止所以在這邊我們也具體的建議希望賴總統能夠近日早日的召開我們的國事會議\n\n15:11.565 --> 15:20.464\n可以邀請我們朝野政黨的領袖還有一些縣市長、專家、學者跟產業代表大家一起來共同的討論共商國事謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.609,"end":8.871,"text":"謝謝主席我們請卓榮泰卓院長請卓院長備詢徐文豪"},{"start":18.837,"end":41.051,"text":"院長好 院長您辛苦了我們現在面對有史以來最嚴重的一個貿易戰尤其是我們在去年對美的貿易順差達到739億美元 排名第六所以川普總統才會提出對等關稅這樣的一個要求當然台灣除了關稅戰之外其實還面臨了四大的挑戰"},{"start":42.971,"end":66.389,"text":"關稅戰當然我們的平均關稅大概是1.6%雖然現在暫緩但也大幅提升到10%對於我的中小企業他們的毛利率大概只有3、4%來說也造成極大的壓力第二個就是國防支出因為我們的國防預算被要求提高到有GDP3.55甚至10%的一個說法那第三個是匯率戰就是"},{"start":67.95,"end":75.957,"text":"經濟顧問委員會的米倫他有提到說新台幣希望能夠升值到20%可是實際上只要升值到10%的話我國的產業可能就沒有辦法負荷另外還有美債的風險就是我們現在外匯存底大概5700億大概有"},{"start":86.106,"end":98.945,"text":"九成當然央行總裁是提到說是八成啦不管是八成還是九成配置美債其實資產的安全都備受關注請問一下卓院長請問面對這四大挑戰賴政府準備好了嗎"},{"start":101.035,"end":116.265,"text":"首先對於關稅戰的這個議題我們剛剛在專案報告裡面提到了相關那麼國防的支出我一直強調依照我們財政的能力跟國家國防的需求那總統也提示要GDP3%"},{"start":117.626,"end":141.892,"text":"這個目標來走所以要一時間說到5%我想這個能力上應該還有有所考量至於匯率戰我們請先接的下來有心理有預期將來的匯率可能是一場也是相當相當艱辛的互相的搏鬥而且是整個全世界也是影響很大的但我國一直對匯率不是一個高度政府去操縱的國家我們也有他的匯率自由的市場所以央行的責任在"},{"start":143.172,"end":165.7,"text":"長期穩定的觀察整個匯率穩定市場的運作而不是去干涉因為現在美國要求我們可能未來的美債要用舊換新甚至能達到零利率最後甚至可能還要支付一些所謂相關的安全捐那這個部分的話對我們的這個外匯存底應該有很大的影響總裁來答覆好 總裁你請說我跟委員報告就是說這個只是說是"},{"start":167.901,"end":183.035,"text":"報導我跟委員報告每年我們都會跟美國的財政部就美債的議題我們會互相交換意見這個部分就請總裁針對我現在是提出來有這樣子的一個可能挑戰請總裁針對這個議題我相信要好"},{"start":185.257,"end":211.165,"text":"好好的來為我國的這個委會存體把關那另外就是我想請教一下這個院長就是說因為其實我們跟美國談判我們一定要知道川普總統在想什麼要什麼請問院長這邊知道川普總統要什麼嗎他透過這一次的對等關稅我認為他是要讓美國再工業化他的目的他的手法透過這樣子希望是達到"},{"start":213.504,"end":222.443,"text":"關稅 貿易的平衡跟消除這些不公平就是貿易能夠讓它逆差能夠降低另外就是能夠排除各國之間跟它的非關稅的貿易障礙"},{"start":224.173,"end":246.765,"text":"針對這個部分我也有四個觀點來跟院長一起分享首先我認為川普他要的是要解決美國赤字的問題另外他也希望能夠降低美國通膨跟改善經濟的問題還有他的股市還有美國債券現在當然利息支出太高的相關問題當然還有就是跟中國的貿易相關的問題所以針對這些問題我相信我們在跟美國談判的時候"},{"start":252.689,"end":260.606,"text":"應該是有掌握確切的一個方向才能夠談出好的結果請問院長認不認同從去年我們成立的關於"},{"start":261.834,"end":284.014,"text":"經貿外交工作小組以及台美經貿專案小組就一直鎖定美方的政策上可能的做一些改變就一直鎖定這些但是他到今天還是有一些變動的所以我們是持續變動的在觀察也在掌握我們期待在最好的時機我們的代表團能夠代表國家最大的利益把出我們整套的方案策略跟大家談"},{"start":284.614,"end":297.388,"text":"那個就代表一個國家最終的態度談的結果雙方當然要有一些折衝當然要有一些討論那請問一下院長你認為川普總統他這次所提出的關稅的做法合乎公平貿易的準則嗎"},{"start":299.151,"end":319.245,"text":"我說他就是用一個公式一個算法算出一個結果他並沒有考慮個別國家跟他之間的因為好像跟我們傳統認知的公民貿易有很大的一個落差嘛所以您認同他這個是合乎我們現在公民貿易的準則嗎那也有委員指出他的計算的方式是不是還要有一些更精進的部分但是很多的"},{"start":319.625,"end":339.066,"text":"經濟學者也是有這樣的看法但是我們賴總統在彭博社的投書當中我們可以看到他有四項具體的回應當然我們面對這樣子美國的不公平的對待的時候其實我們原則上應該是要選擇怎麼去"},{"start":341.595,"end":368.09,"text":"協商嘛而不是選擇妥協那當然我們目前賴政府面對川普的要求選擇要不管是台積電已經到美國去投資1650億了那現在川普總統又說台積電有答應他要投資2000億所以賴政府面對川普的要求選擇幾乎現在看起來是完全配合啦那請問院長我們還要移多少產業到美國去呢"},{"start":369.029,"end":387.119,"text":"台積公司到美國的投資這是個民間投資案政府並不是在推並不是在主導我們在善盡我們在投審方面的未來的機制嚴格的投審那他民間公司民間產業基於全球佈局他做的這個方向全球佈局的方向我們是政府是樂觀的"},{"start":389.182,"end":400.943,"text":"那針對賴總統所提到的希望這個談美先的所有的關稅會有零關稅開始談起喔那所以針對這個部分如果再配合全面零關稅的話會影響政府多少的收入呢"},{"start":401.4,"end":424.599,"text":"因為現在台灣輸美的已經有70%就是零關稅美國輸台有62%62%是零關稅所以我們是有這樣的基礎可以繼續的擴大但是不是一夕之間一夕之間如果照賴總統在彭博的投書的話從零關稅談起那如果真的都是零關稅的話會影響政府多少的收入我們現在目前對美國的收入"},{"start":427.28,"end":434.621,"text":"將來現在是大概7點多億左右未來對我們會增加到100多億但美國我們就從這樣反算就是"},{"start":434.946,"end":452.56,"text":"也就是說如果未來是零關稅的話不管是對農產品我方的負擔其實影響的層面應該不止這樣子而且會有更大的影響產業的關稅本身的數字跟產業是不一樣的所以現在農漁業 農漁民其實還有一些這個傳產其實大家壓力都很大農漁業的這個關稅目前農漁業我們是逆差的所以這個在談判的過程當中當然要表達出來因為台灣對於美國的這個"},{"start":463.937,"end":486.848,"text":"糧食的進口是多的因為我剛才提到白宮的經濟顧問明倫他在4月7號有發表一個演說幫助美國五途徑那請院長看一下他針對這五個途徑請問我們認同美方提出的五個途徑的做法嗎那我們打算接受哪五項呢"},{"start":489.682,"end":510.675,"text":"這不變在這裡講說現在我們談判要接受不接受未來我們由政府院長領軍跟其他部會首長加上我們談判辦公室所以針對這五項的目前的這個五項途徑啦我想不管是說出口產品要接受美國關稅同時不開徵報復性關稅甚至要提高國防支出跟美國軍購我們先從"},{"start":511.335,"end":529.48,"text":"提高國防支出跟美國經過這點來看齊我們看一下美國希望我希望我方提出軍事的支出其實從不管從GDP的3.5 5% 10%我們都有聽到這樣子的一個的說法那我們可以看一下你現在可以看一下這個表格就是說我們就從"},{"start":530.861,"end":544.391,"text":"114年度的明目GDP就是26兆8000以來當作推估值那我國的軍費支出呢從現在今年度如果是2.45%來算的話是6474億元那如果照講的話3%的話就來到8040億元3.5%的話是9380億元5%的話就是1兆3400億元那其實"},{"start":556.861,"end":568.352,"text":"賴總統說到對這個美國擴大採購包括能源農產品跟其他工業用品那所謂的其他工業用品有沒有包含軍事採購一般在算貿易的"},{"start":569.971,"end":592.863,"text":"數字裡面軍事採購是會被排除?是沒有嘛 對也就是說軍事採購並不會列入這樣的貿易的計算所以如果再加上這些軍事採購的話事實上也沒有辦法降低我們對美國的貿易的順差所以針對這個部分請問院長對於美國的軍事採購啊每年大概要增加多少的支出才能夠符合美方的要求呢?"},{"start":594.004,"end":612.359,"text":"如果照今年的中央總預算算起來大概一千兩三百億到一千五百億之間才能達到百分之三請問一下如果我們現在看到的就是今年我們是因為本來是有國防的支出預算大概是四千六百七十四億特種基金八百零六億特別預算九百零四億"},{"start":613.42,"end":638.153,"text":"這樣才有6474億元的這樣子的一個這個我們的國防支出但如果要提高到GDP5%的話大概需要一兆3400億也就是要增加6926億那以現在如果沒有特別預算來支應的話我們可能會去排擠到的可能就是社會福利支出教育科學支出還有文化支出經濟發展的支出才能夠足以因應那請問院長"},{"start":639.414,"end":653.736,"text":"如果沒有特別預算的話會從哪裡去減少這些預算的指引呢報告委員我們今年並沒有對外說或是我們準備要朝向GDP5%的這個數字是那如果在談判的過程中川普這樣要求呢"},{"start":654.349,"end":667.014,"text":"我們不能為對方設想他的想法也就是說當有這樣的可能的時候我覺得我們這個左院長所領導的這個部會還是應該要了解清楚是不是有這樣的一個問題那另外就是針對賴總統在這個投書的第五項他說"},{"start":671.036,"end":698.362,"text":"台灣將致力排除非關稅貿易障礙那當然我們可以想到就是說賴清德總統說要致力排除非關稅貿易障礙是不是要開放美豬美牛還可以不標示產地呢剛剛我一直在提到這樣的相關問題我是這樣的答覆我是認為國民的健康安全重要我們的市場的消費習慣也重要但是如果"},{"start":699.209,"end":717.59,"text":"台灣是國際社會的一份子有國際的標準跟科學的認證我們必須在當中取得一個平衡但是前兩個原則我們會謹守所以前兩個原則是指說不會開放美豬美牛全面進口也不會開放說不標示產地是這樣嗎現在已經有開放一部分了不標示產地這件事"},{"start":718.178,"end":736.027,"text":"這是我們消費的習慣我覺得這個可以所以院長是不是可以在這邊告訴大家我們不會開放不標示產地也不會開放基改食品進入校園我們剛剛好幾位委員都提到表示大家都非常關心他都尊重我們行政院談判的"},{"start":737.108,"end":739.651,"text":"這種策略那我們現在正在準備談判過程當中所以院長的意思是說要犧牲國人的食安健康還有學童的健康嗎沒有這樣的講法我說我們在國人的健康跟市場的消費習慣當中我們會謹守"},{"start":752.185,"end":761.516,"text":"但談判的過程當中我們現在距離歷程其實我覺得食安跟健康尤其是學童的健康是絕對不能退讓的也絕對不能讓步的所以請院長針對這個部分一定要謹守我們的原則絕對不能犧牲國人的食安跟犧牲國人的健康"},{"start":770.182,"end":786.435,"text":"然後另外就是有關這個農業的剛剛提到嘛就說我們今年的這個去年的農業利差大概是到新台幣990億元那我們可以看一下這個表格大概我們蝴蝶蘭跟台灣貂這個出口到美國是最多的兩項產品"},{"start":787.836,"end":800.347,"text":"那尤其是蝴蝶藍大概是對美國出口的產值大概佔出口市場的四成達到18.3億也是最大的買主那台灣貂大概有79%外銷的79%是銷往美國那在美國宣布關稅政策暫緩之前已經有業者反映"},{"start":807.553,"end":830.075,"text":"蘇美的訂單有出現延遲或取消的一個狀況那現在雖然這個暫緩90天但是因為我們還是被課徵10%的這個稅額請問一下院長就是農產品的毛利率它本來就不高那如果這10%的稅額再課徵下去可能會讓我們的很多的農漁的產業沒有辦法度過這次的危機請問政府有什麼具體的做法來幫助他們"},{"start":831.875,"end":847.647,"text":"我跟委員報告就是以現在目前的10%或之前的32%那農業部本身一個最重要在短期之間最重要的就是我們的相關的這些外銷的跟外銷有關的行銷跟獎勵的部分那同樣的"},{"start":849.068,"end":870.398,"text":"在10%的前提之下其實我們最主要的競爭對手是中國所以相對的中國的關稅比我們高的時候其實我們更有機會去針對美國的市場做一個重新的佈局那這個部分在前兩天在跟吳國瑜業者本身在討論的時候他們都認同這樣的方式所以後續我們會再討論現在大家比較擔心的是賴總統說的要從零關稅談起這個部分"},{"start":873.519,"end":888.969,"text":"所以也希望院長可以在這邊承諾就是政府在談判的過程中絕對不會犧牲農漁漁民的權益可以嗎農漁優先是政府一項的原則那以國家利益為唯一這也是談判過程當中要謹守謝謝院長的這個承諾"},{"start":891.09,"end":910.664,"text":"那另外就是我想我們這次是中央跟地方大家一起要攜手面對挑戰因為這次可以真的說是國難當前所以我們也希望所有政治的內耗都能夠停止所以在這邊我們也具體的建議希望賴總統能夠近日早日的召開我們的國事會議"},{"start":911.565,"end":920.464,"text":"可以邀請我們朝野政黨的領袖還有一些縣市長、專家、學者跟產業代表大家一起來共同的討論共商國事謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1137,"blocks":[["許委員宇甄：（17時1分）謝謝主席，請卓榮泰卓院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：許委員好。"],["許委員宇甄：院長好。院長，您辛苦了！"],["卓院長榮泰：不會，大家都辛苦。"],["許委員宇甄：我們現在面對有史以來最嚴重的一個貿易戰，尤其是我們在去年對美的貿易順差達到739億美元，排名第六，所以川普總統才會提出對等關稅這樣子的要求，當然臺灣除了關稅戰之外，其實還面臨了四大挑戰。首先是關稅戰，我們的平均關稅大概是1.6%，雖然現在暫緩，但也大幅提升到10%，對我國的中小企業毛利率大概只有3%、4%來說，也造成極大的壓力。第二個就是國防支出，因為我們的國防預算被要求提高到有GDP3.5%、5%，甚至是10%的一個說法。第三個是匯率戰，就是經濟顧問委員會的米倫有提到希望新臺幣能夠升值到20%，可是實際上只要升值到10%的話，我國的產業可能就沒有辦法負荷。另外還有美債的風險，就是我們現在外匯存底5,700億，大概有九成，當然央行總裁說八成，不管是八成還是九成配置美債，其實資產的安全都備受關注。請問一下卓院長，面對這四大挑戰，賴政府準備好了嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：首先對於關稅戰這個議題，我們剛剛在專案報告裡面提到了相關……"],["許委員宇甄：是。"],["卓院長榮泰：國防的支出，我一直強調依照我們財政的能力跟國家國防的需求，總統也提示要朝GDP3%這個目標來走，所以要一時間說到5%，我想這個能力上應該還有所考量。至於匯率戰，我們緊接著下來有心理預期，將來的匯率可能也是一場相當艱辛的互相搏鬥，而且整個全世界也是影響很大的。但我國一直對匯率不是一個高度政府操縱的國家，我們也有匯率自由的市場，所以央行的責任在長期穩定地觀察整個匯率穩定市場的運作，而不是去干涉。"],["許委員宇甄：因為現在美國要求我們可能未來的美債要用舊換新，甚至達到零利率，最後甚至可能還要支付一些所謂相關的安全捐，這個部分對我們的外匯存底應該有很大的影響。"],["卓院長榮泰：請總裁來答復。"],["許委員宇甄：好，總裁請說。"],["楊總裁金龍：我跟委員報告，這個只是報導。"],["許委員宇甄：是。"],["楊總裁金龍：我跟委員報告，每年我們都會跟美國的財政部就美債的議題互相交換意見……"],["許委員宇甄：好，我現在是提出來可能有這樣一個挑戰，請總裁針對這個議題，要好好地為我國的外匯存底把關。"],["楊總裁金龍：好。"],["許委員宇甄：另外就是我想請教院長，其實我們跟美國談判，一定要知道川普總統在想什麼、要什麼，請問院長這邊知道川普總統要什麼嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：透過這一次的對等關稅，我認為他是要讓美國再工業化，他的手法是透過這樣子希望達到貿易的平衡跟消除這些不公平，就是能夠讓貿易逆差降低，另外就是排除各國之間跟他非關稅的貿易障礙。"],["許委員宇甄：針對這個部分，我也有四個觀點跟院長一起分享。首先，我認為川普要的是解決美國赤字的問題，另外他也希望能夠降低美國通膨跟改善經濟的問題，還有股市跟美國債券，現在當然是利息支出太高的問題，當然還有跟中國貿易的相關問題。針對這些問題，我相信我們在跟美國談判的時候，應該是有掌握確切的方向，才能夠談出好的結果，請問院長認不認同？"],["卓院長榮泰：從去年我們成立關於經貿外交工作小組以及臺美經貿專案小組，就一直鎖定美方政策上可能做的一些改變，但是他到今天還是有一些變動的，所以我們會持續觀察變動也在掌握，我們期待在最好的時機，我國代表團能夠代表國家最大的利益，拿出我們整套的方案、策略跟他談，那就代表一個國家最終的態度，但談的結果，雙方當然要有一些折衝，也有些討論。"],["許委員宇甄：是，請問院長，你認為川普總統這次所提出的關稅作法，合乎公平貿易的準則嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我說他就是用一個公式、一個算法，算出一個結果，他並沒有考慮個別國家跟他之間不一樣的關係或不一樣的合作。"],["許委員宇甄：因為好像跟我們傳統認知的公平貿易有很大的落差，所以您認同他是合乎現在公平貿易的準則嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛也有委員指出他計算的方式，是不是還要有一些更精進的部分，很多經濟學者也是有這樣的看法，但我們認為……"],["許委員宇甄：但是賴總統在彭博社的投書當中，可以看到他有四項具體的回應，當然面對美國不公平對待的時候，我們原則上應該要選擇怎麼去協商，而不是選擇妥協，目前賴政府面對川普的要求，不管是台積電已經到美國投資1,650億了，現在川普總統又說台積電有答應他要投資2,000億，所以賴政府面對川普的要求，看起來幾乎選擇是完全配合，請問院長，我們還要移多少產業到美國去呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：台積公司到美國投資是一個民間投資案，政府並不是在推、並不是在主導，我們善盡未來在投審方面的機制，嚴格的投審，民間公司、民間產業基於全球布局，所做的全球布局方向，政府是樂觀的，但是一直在……"],["許委員宇甄：針對賴總統所提到的，希望臺美所有的關稅由零關稅開始談起，如果再配合全面零關稅的話，會影響政府多少的收入呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為現在臺灣輸美已經有76%是零關稅，美國輸臺有62%是零關稅，所以我們是有這樣的基礎可以繼續擴大，但不是一夕之間擴大全部。"],["許委員宇甄：照賴總統在彭博的投書從零關稅談起，如果真的都是零關稅的話，會影響政府多少收入？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們目前對美國的收入大概七點多億左右，未來我們會增加到一百多億，但美國我們就從這樣反算就好。"],["許委員宇甄：也就是說如果未來是零關稅的話，不管是對農產品……"],["卓院長榮泰：我方的負擔。"],["許委員宇甄：其實影響的層面應該不只這樣，而且也會有更大的影響。"],["卓院長榮泰：這是產業的，關稅本身的數字跟產業是不同的。"],["許委員宇甄：所以現在農漁民還有一些傳產，其實大家壓力都很大。"],["卓院長榮泰：我知道，我們關心的是農漁業關稅的部分，目前農漁業我們是逆差的，所以在談判的過程中當然要表達出來，因為臺灣對於美國的糧食進口是多的。"],["許委員宇甄：我剛剛有提到，白宮經濟顧問米倫在4月7號有發表一個演說，提出幫助美國五途徑。院長，針對這五個途徑，請問我們認同美方提出這五個途徑的作法嗎？我們打算接受哪幾項呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：這不便在這裡講說現在我們談判要接受或不接受，未來由鄭副院長領軍跟其他部會首長，加上談判辦公室……"],["許委員宇甄：所以針對這五項途徑，我想不管是出口產品要接受美國關稅，同時不開徵報復性關稅，甚至要提高國防支出跟美國軍購，我們先從提高國防支出跟美國軍購這點來看，美國希望我方提出軍事的支出，其實不管從GDP的3.5%、5%、10%，我們都有聽到這樣子的說法，我們現在可以看一下這個表格，從114年度的名目GDP，就是26兆8,000億來當作推估值，我國的軍費支出今年度如果是2.45%來算的話，是6,474億元，如果是3%的話，就來到8,040億元，3.5%的話是9,380億元，5%的話就是1兆3,400億元。賴總統說對美國擴大採購，包括能源、農產品跟其他工業用品，所謂的其他工業用品，有沒有包含軍事採購？"],["卓院長榮泰：一般在算貿易的數字裡面，軍事採購是會被排除。"],["許委員宇甄：是沒有嘛，對。也就是說，軍事採購並不會列入這樣一個貿易的計算，所以如果再加上這些軍事採購，事實上也沒有辦法降低我們對美國的貿易順差。針對這個部分，請問院長，對於美國的軍事採購，每年大概要增加多少的支出，才能夠符合美方的要求呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：如果照今年的中央總預算算起來，大概要一千兩、三百億到一千五百億之間，才能達到3%。"],["許委員宇甄：對，請問一下，如果我們以今年總預算本來的國防支出來看，預算大概是4,674億，加上特種基金806億及特別預算904億，這樣才有6,474億元的國防支出，但如果要提高到GDP5%，大概需要1兆3,400億，也就是要增加6,926億，如果沒有特別預算來支應的話，會排擠到的可能就是社會福利支出、教育科學支出、文化支出、經濟發展支出，才能夠足以因應。請問院長，如果沒有特別預算，會從哪裡去減少這些預算的支應呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我們今年並沒有對外說，或是我們準備要朝向GDP5%的這個數字。"],["許委員宇甄：是，如果在談判的過程中，川普這樣要求呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：我不能為對方設想他的想法。"],["許委員宇甄：也就是說，當有這樣的可能的時候，我覺得卓院長所領導的部會，還是應該要了解清楚，是不是有這樣的一個問題。","另外，針對賴總統投書的第五項，他說臺灣將致力排除非關稅貿易障礙，當然我們可以想到的就是，賴清德總統說要致力排除非關稅貿易障礙，是不是要開放美豬、美牛，還可以不標示產地呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛有委員一直提到這樣的相關問題，我是這樣的答復，我是認為國民的健康安全重要、我們市場的消費習慣也重要，但是臺灣是國際社會的一分子，有國際的標準跟科學的認證，我們必須在當中取得一個平衡，但是前兩個原則我們會謹守。"],["許委員宇甄：所以前兩個原則是指說不會開放美豬、美牛全面進口，也不會開放不標示產地，是這樣嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：現在已經有開放一部分。"],["許委員宇甄：沒有，我說不標示產地這件事。"],["卓院長榮泰：這是我們消費的習慣，我覺得這個可以經過……"],["許委員宇甄：所以院長是不是可以在這邊告訴大家，我們不會開放不標示產地，也不會開放基改食品進入校園？"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛好幾位委員都有提到……"],["許委員宇甄：表示大家都非常關心。"],["卓院長榮泰：不是，他說願意遵照、尊重我們行政院談判的策略……"],["許委員宇甄：所以就是有可能。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們現在正在準備談判過程當中，如果現在我們談要或不要……"],["許委員宇甄：所以院長的意思是要犧牲國人的食安健康，還有學童的健康嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有、沒有這樣的講法。我說在國人的健康跟市場的消費習慣當中，我們會謹守，但談判的過程當中，我們應該據理力爭。"],["許委員宇甄：其實我覺得食安跟健康，尤其是學童的健康，是絕對不能退讓的，也絕對不能讓步的。"],["卓院長榮泰：這個原則我們都清楚。"],["許委員宇甄：所以請院長針對這個部分，一定要謹守我們的原則，絕對不能犧牲國人的食安跟犧牲國人的健康。"],["卓院長榮泰：這個原則我們都清楚。"],["許委員宇甄：另外，有關剛剛提到農業的部分，我們去年的農業逆差大概是到新臺幣990億元，我們可以看一下這個表格，其中我們蝴蝶蘭跟臺灣鯛是出口到美國最多的兩項產品。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["許委員宇甄：尤其是蝴蝶蘭，對美國出口的產值，大概占出口市場的四成，達到18.3億，也是最大的買主；臺灣鯛大概有97%是外銷往美國，在美國宣布關稅政策暫緩之前，已經有業者反映輸美的訂單有出現延遲或取消的狀況。現在雖然暫緩90天，但是我們還是被課徵10%的稅額，請問一下院長，農產品的毛利率本來就不高，如果這10%的稅額再課徵下去，可能會讓我們很多農、漁產業沒有辦法度過這次危機，請問政府有什麼具體的作法來幫助他們？"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長來回答。"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，以現在目前10%或之前的32%，農業部在短期內最重要的就是這些跟外銷有關的行銷跟獎勵的部分，同樣在10%的前提下，我們最主要的競爭對手是中國，所以相對中國的關稅比我們高的時候，其實我們更有機會針對美國的市場重新布局，這個部分在前兩天跟吳郭魚業者在討論的時候，他們都認同這樣的方式，所以後續我們會再處理。"],["許委員宇甄：我知道，因為現在大家比較擔心的是賴總統說的要從零關稅談起這個部分，所以也希望院長可以在這邊承諾，政府在談判的過程中，絕對不會犧牲農、漁民的權益，可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：農、漁優先是政府一向的原則，以國家利益為唯一，這也是談判過程當中要謹守的國家立場。"],["許委員宇甄：謝謝院長的承諾。另外，我們這次是中央跟地方大家一起要攜手面對挑戰，因為這次真的是國難當前，我們也希望所有政治的內耗都能停止，在這邊我們具體的建議，希望賴總統能夠早日召開國是會議，邀請朝野政黨領袖，還有一些縣市長、專家學者跟產業代表，大家一起共同討論、共商國是，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝許委員，謝謝卓院長。","下一位請何欣純委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":13,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-04-11"],"gazette_id":"1143401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143401_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1143401_00001"}}}