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\"我們看到為什麼現在各縣市的教師缺額不減反增所以我們有沒有去思考第一個到底這個原因是什麼那又如何解決那是教師甄選的門檻過高還是我們縣市有一些政策沒有辦法去吸引這些優秀人才進入我們的教育體系那請部長做個簡答\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 90.689, \"end\": 90.929, \"score\": 0.588}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 90.929, \"end\": 91.029, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 91.029, \"end\": 91.31, \"score\": 0.68}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 91.31, \"end\": 91.71, \"score\": 0.704}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 91.71, \"end\": 91.89, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 91.89, \"end\": 92.291, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"縣\"}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 92.291, \"end\": 92.431, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 92.431, \"end\": 92.531, \"score\": 0.64}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 92.531, \"end\": 92.912, \"score\": 0.741}, {\"word\": \"師\"}, {\"word\": \"缺\", \"start\": 92.912, \"end\": 93.252, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"額\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 93.252, \"end\": 93.692, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"減\"}, {\"word\": \"反\", \"start\": 93.692, \"end\": 93.953, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 93.953, \"end\": 94.593, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 94.593, \"end\": 94.654, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 94.654, \"end\": 94.714, \"score\": 0.182}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 94.714, \"end\": 94.734, \"score\": 0.668}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 94.734, \"end\": 94.814, \"score\": 0.533}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 94.814, \"end\": 94.914, \"score\": 0.591}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 94.914, \"end\": 95.054, \"score\": 0.524}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 95.054, \"end\": 95.254, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"思\", \"start\": 95.254, \"end\": 95.434, \"score\": 0.691}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 95.434, \"end\": 95.695, \"score\": 0.724}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 95.695, \"end\": 95.795, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 95.795, 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{\"word\": \"策\", \"start\": 102.282, \"end\": 102.482, \"score\": 0.776}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 102.482, \"end\": 102.582, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 102.582, \"end\": 102.682, \"score\": 0.54}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 102.682, \"end\": 102.883, \"score\": 0.642}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 102.883, \"end\": 103.103, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"吸\", \"start\": 103.103, \"end\": 103.263, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"引\", \"start\": 103.263, \"end\": 103.503, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 103.503, \"end\": 103.804, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"優\"}, {\"word\": \"秀\", \"start\": 103.804, \"end\": 103.984, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 103.984, \"end\": 104.184, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 104.184, \"end\": 104.845, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 104.845, \"end\": 104.945, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"我\", 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725.857, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 725.857, \"end\": 725.997, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 725.997, \"end\": 726.117, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 726.117, \"end\": 726.478, \"score\": 0.713}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 726.478, \"end\": 726.578, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 726.578, \"end\": 726.958, \"score\": 0.732}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 726.958, \"end\": 727.138, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 727.138, \"end\": 727.418, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 727.418, \"end\": 727.438, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,140 --> 00:00:08,031\n美領委員質詢好謝謝昭偉我們有請鄭部長請鄭部長列資訊\n\n2\n00:00:18,956 --> 00:00:33,374\n委員好部長早我想我們教育界在這幾年面臨了很嚴重的教師荒問題部長一定有注意到無論是偏鄉或者是現在連都會的學校都有遇到教師招募困難的一個狀況\n\n3\n00:00:34,375 --> 00:00:48,788\n那甚至於從媒體上面的報導我們還看到教師不僅有難以招募的一個困境還出現了教師出走潮人數是逐年的減少請問一下您是否有感受到這樣的一個危機還是覺得媒體的報導稍嫌誇大\n\n4\n00:00:52,877 --> 00:01:11,637\n感謝委員的指導我想我們的教師這個人力上的一個補充確實趕不上產業上的一個變化好所以是有這樣的一個危機在好我們再來看根據教育部的統計有發現近兩年我們各縣市正式教師職缺跟實際錄取的人數\n\n5\n00:01:13,539 --> 00:01:18,302\n落差大幅的擴大112年共有576個缺額未能錄取113年進一步攀升到806個那麼增加了230個缺額那這個缺幅這個缺額的增幅高達快要40%\n\n6\n00:01:30,689 --> 00:01:46,647\n我們看到為什麼現在各縣市的教師缺額不減反增所以我們有沒有去思考第一個到底這個原因是什麼那又如何解決那是教師甄選的門檻過高還是我們縣市有一些政策沒有辦法去吸引這些優秀人才進入我們的教育體系那請部長做個簡答\n\n7\n00:01:48,737 --> 00:02:04,666\n謝謝委員我想這大概可以從兩個面向來看第一個是因為產業上的誘因很大那第二個是因為少子化各地方縣市政府他也擔心因為對現有的教師的一個權益的照顧\n\n8\n00:02:05,586 --> 00:02:22,522\n不希望因為少子化而減少對老師的一些工作權上的一些點出了兩個很重要的原因那當然我們去看其實整個失陪的一個狀況根據教育部我們自己師資培育統計的年報高中以下的單科教師的甄選報考人數也是明顯下滑的110年的報考人數是35909人112年\n\n9\n00:02:31,630 --> 00:02:48,344\n降到了29415人短短一年的时间而已这个报考人数就减少了7736人所以我想这当然这个整个原因是非常的多除了您上述所讲的两个原因之外恐怕还有很多是我们应该把它整理起来的\n\n10\n00:02:48,704 --> 00:03:04,804\n因為我們知道過去我們知道當老師是一個非常受到尊敬的一個職業而且是一個非常穩定的職業那過去其實很多人都願意來投入教職那這幾年這樣的狀況其實值得我們去想每一個原因不管是大的因素小的影響我們要把它找出來才能夠去解決那\n\n11\n00:03:05,865 --> 00:03:24,811\n更严重的雪上加霜是我们除了招募困难之外那这几年教师的离退的情形有让人看了非常的忧心111年全国公立高中级以下的学校总共有3772名教师离职退休或者留职停薪那112年这个数字还上升到了\n\n12\n00:03:26,552 --> 00:03:47,129\n4196人那麼大幅的增加那113年的統計資料還沒有出來但是本席猜測應該也不樂觀所以從統計年報可以看到除了留職停薪的人數略降一點點之外離職跟退休的老師這個趨勢都是成長的所以我們看到又是招募有困難出走潮又越來越大\n\n13\n00:03:47,789 --> 00:03:52,512\n所以我觉得对于我们教育现场来说其实是很严峻的一个状况那当然\n\n14\n00:04:17,609 --> 00:04:43,508\n对我们老师的尊重度也越来越少所以老师常常会觉得那不如规矩嘛那同时他们除了教育的本质之外还要负担大量的行政部长我们看根据这个师资统计年报显示我们高中以下的这个科技领域的师资报考人数也是大幅下降的我们看到国中的报考人数减少了142人高中88人高职电机跟电子群的师资也减少58人\n\n15\n00:04:45,249 --> 00:05:02,434\n所以我想對於我們這個科技的領域的這師資也是下滑的這一點我想也是會後看部長是不是能夠把這個問題找出來然後具體的方案講出來然後能夠給我一份報告來講好不好因為這個也非常重要但是最重要的點今天要跟這個部長討論就是我們教師的團體\n\n16\n00:05:05,515 --> 00:05:33,454\n曾经多次的呼吁多年来也一直在呼吁就是政府应该要正视我们教师行政负担过重的这个问题那而且呢我们过去这么多年我们一直在诉求行政减量还建议我们希望要增设专职的行政人员让我们的老师可以很专心在他教学的工作上面不要心有旁骛甚至有很大的压力那教育部呢从104年开始起那部里面也成立了工作圈\n\n17\n00:05:35,555 --> 00:05:43,878\n相關的措施辦法解決的方案等等可是十年過去了還是問題依舊在部長能不能說明一下謝謝委員我講確實老師現在的一個因為少子化因為家長的每一個小孩都是家長的寶所以他們面臨的挑戰確實是大我們直接針對行政簡單的工作來講好不好行政的部分我先簡單回應委員剛才所談的steam我們事實上\n\n18\n00:06:04,424 --> 00:06:10,666\n那個部長我的時間有限我覺得行政減量這個部分我們能不能談一下行政減量我們事實上已經發問給各地方政府陳委員所關心特別國中因為校士事件的一個越來越頻繁我們教育部在這個部分跟地方合作我們補充這一個\n\n19\n00:06:22,851 --> 00:06:45,209\n專任的這些約聘的行政人員或者尊重學校有副組長的這樣一個職位上的這些都是我提的剛才我們在過去幾年有做的措施嘛但顯然說當然有做都是最好的沒有做可能更慘但十年來不能解決我是覺得我們教育部還是要徹底想一想那不能說我有做了這一點那一點但是如果成效不彰我們要去思考怎麼樣才能夠把這個問題做解決\n\n20\n00:06:48,292 --> 00:07:07,931\n本席知道這個在近期大概台北市包括建中等幾個學校他們有去越南去參訪那有一所叫做丁善理中學以這個學校為例這個部長知道嗎這個學校有一千名的學生那有一百名的老師那這個師生比一比十這不打緊更重要的是他配有一百個專職的行政人員\n\n21\n00:07:08,852 --> 00:07:28,037\n所以其實你看看我們的老師其實真的非常的辛苦所以這一點希望部長要去正視它那能夠提出更具體有效的行政減量的執行方案那您剛剛所說的那些我們都有在做當然希望能夠繼續不過要去想一想真正能解決問題的辦法趕快把它提出來那這個部分的話公務員報告\n\n22\n00:07:29,757 --> 00:07:44,665\n其實中央教育部真的有很多的瓶頸很多的行政都在大量的減量可是當教育部在減量的時候地方政府也期待學校有更多的一些這些教育的一些服務反而地方也\n\n23\n00:07:46,386 --> 00:08:07,497\n部長你想這個其實我沒有辦法完全接受那我當然覺得就是教育是中央地方一體的然後我們要去思考看看什麼樣的工作該留住本來就要留住嘛但是呢過多複雜繁榮的這些程序啦或不需要作業該減少就要減少那並不是說地方也覺得需要一些服務什麼我覺得這個不存在啦但是我們還是希望說我們這個問題共同去解決\n\n24\n00:08:10,118 --> 00:08:39,194\n接下來我想說要跟部長也討論一下那也就是說我們現在看到一個問題就是我們教育部從93年起你也制定了中央政府推動建立員工學習制度而且給予一些獎勵的辦法有嘛對不對那我們希望他在做學習的時候能夠給予員工貸薪或者薪費補助或工價其他方式是制度性的在帶動員工在職學習那尤其我知道我們那個葉秉成次長上任之後\n\n25\n00:08:39,734 --> 00:08:59,293\n市长这边也有运用过很多过去你自己的经验人脉开了很多的这个课程让大家去做一些这个进修我觉得很好那但是比较之下我们发现了我们全国的教保员的研习制度的配套就急需要改善还需要去落实那最近有教育团体在4月8号指出\n\n26\n00:08:59,833 --> 00:09:16,311\n教育部跟地方政府針對教保員的研習並沒有營造友善進修的環境甚至於配套全國不一致那我們看到因為我們這些教保員所在的遠所因為教保的人力經費跟成本的考量要利用假日的進修不但沒有加班費\n\n27\n00:09:16,912 --> 00:09:46,070\n甚至于工价的补修也因为缺乏代理人力根本没有办法落实那同时我们再看到教保服务人员条例里面第34条48条的规定所有教保员必须每年要接受18小时的研习如果没有旅行那么要罚1000到6000元换句话说我们对于教保人员呢只有棍棒没有萝卜只有惩罚没有奖励所以这是一个很严重的问题那当然我想\n\n28\n00:09:46,971 --> 00:09:53,539\n教育部在111年下半年也跟各地方政府來開會了來解決這樣一個配套的這個機制上的問題那當中有三個決議我簡單的來個部長讓您這個回憶一下我們教保員如果經過指派參加研習要何以工價如果是在上班時間外\n\n29\n00:10:05,694 --> 00:10:35,374\n我們就應該要公價並且遵御補休跟加班費這一點沒有問題第二個因為台南市屏東縣的教保服務人員在假日如果他自願參加研習那學校也同意的話我們是應該給他公價並且補休但是時數上限18小時所以也要建起其他的縣市比照辦理那最後大家希望在教育部也好地方也好我們可以開一些線上的這些課程讓大家多元去進修但是我想\n\n30\n00:10:36,074 --> 00:10:51,363\n兩年的時間過去了這個會議的時間兩年的時間過去了那我們對於我們現在有沒有去追蹤各地方政府對於假日參加研習有沒有給予工價或者是補修的機制配套或者多元的這個管道的部分現在是怎麼落實在做\n\n31\n00:10:55,183 --> 00:11:14,330\n謝謝委員提醒確實我們給幼保研這一個公價補修縣市提供線上課程但是有部分的縣市可能沒有落實我們再來前面來了解因為這兩天我也看到了這樣一個媒體上的一個報導我想我們中央跟地方來合作看怎麼樣來克服\n\n32\n00:11:15,810 --> 00:11:38,198\n我最後一分鐘提醒您第一個我們有做線上但是我們可能不是所有的課程都有有些研習它可能只有實體那可能會不符合他們的需求那這個問題怎麼解決第二個您剛剛提到說有些縣市沒有落實既然我們都知道這樣的一個訊息我們是不是要全面趕快盤查是哪些縣市沒有落實而它沒有落實的原因是什麼\n\n33\n00:11:38,698 --> 00:12:07,438\n需不需要給予什麼樣的協助那該查也要去查那既然會議做了決定我們就要把它落實下來讓我們教保人員在進修的時候既能符合法令那麼又可以去享有我們對他給予應該有的獎勵這可以做得到嗎這是我們的分內的工作我們應該要努力那部長能不能一個月之內以上這一些就本席今天提出來的一個月之內我們把它整理之後那把這個報告送上來我們教育文化委員會可以嗎可以好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n140\t8031\t美領委員質詢好 謝謝昭偉 我們有請鄭部長請鄭部長列資訊\n18956\t33374\t委員好部長早我想我們教育界在這幾年面臨了很嚴重的教師荒問題部長一定有注意到無論是偏鄉或者是現在連都會的學校都有遇到教師招募困難的一個狀況\n34375\t48788\t那甚至於從媒體上面的報導我們還看到教師不僅有難以招募的一個困境還出現了教師出走潮人數是逐年的減少請問一下您是否有感受到這樣的一個危機還是覺得媒體的報導稍嫌誇大\n52877\t71637\t感謝委員的指導 我想我們的教師這個人力上的一個補充確實趕不上產業上的一個變化好 所以是有這樣的一個危機在好 我們再來看 根據教育部的統計 有發現近兩年我們各縣市正式教師職缺跟實際錄取的人數\n73539\t78302\t落差大幅的擴大112年共有576個缺額未能錄取113年進一步攀升到806個那麼增加了230個缺額那這個缺幅這個缺額的增幅高達快要40%\n90689\t106647\t我們看到為什麼現在各縣市的教師缺額不減反增所以我們有沒有去思考第一個到底這個原因是什麼那又如何解決那是教師甄選的門檻過高還是我們縣市有一些政策沒有辦法去吸引這些優秀人才進入我們的教育體系那請部長做個簡答\n108737\t124666\t謝謝委員我想這大概可以從兩個面向來看第一個是因為產業上的誘因很大那第二個是因為少子化各地方縣市政府他也擔心因為對現有的教師的一個權益的照顧\n125586\t142522\t不希望因為少子化而減少對老師的一些工作權上的一些點出了兩個很重要的原因那當然我們去看其實整個失陪的一個狀況根據教育部我們自己師資培育統計的年報高中以下的單科教師的甄選報考人數也是明顯下滑的110年的報考人數是35909人112年\n151630\t168344\t降到了29415人短短一年的时间而已这个报考人数就减少了7736人所以我想这当然这个整个原因是非常的多除了您上述所讲的两个原因之外恐怕还有很多是我们应该把它整理起来的\n168704\t184804\t因為我們知道過去我們知道當老師是一個非常受到尊敬的一個職業而且是一個非常穩定的職業那過去其實很多人都願意來投入教職那這幾年這樣的狀況其實值得我們去想每一個原因不管是大的因素小的影響我們要把它找出來才能夠去解決那\n185865\t204811\t更严重的雪上加霜是我们除了招募困难之外那这几年教师的离退的情形有让人看了非常的忧心111年全国公立高中级以下的学校总共有3772名教师离职退休或者留职停薪那112年这个数字还上升到了\n206552\t227129\t4196人那麼大幅的增加那113年的統計資料還沒有出來但是本席猜測應該也不樂觀所以從統計年報可以看到除了留職停薪的人數略降一點點之外離職跟退休的老師這個趨勢都是成長的所以我們看到又是招募有困難出走潮又越來越大\n227789\t232512\t所以我觉得对于我们教育现场来说其实是很严峻的一个状况那当然\n257609\t283508\t对我们老师的尊重度也越来越少所以老师常常会觉得那不如规矩嘛那同时他们除了教育的本质之外还要负担大量的行政部长我们看根据这个师资统计年报显示我们高中以下的这个科技领域的师资报考人数也是大幅下降的我们看到国中的报考人数减少了142人高中88人高职电机跟电子群的师资也减少58人\n285249\t302434\t所以我想對於我們這個科技的領域的這師資也是下滑的這一點我想也是會後看部長是不是能夠把這個問題找出來然後具體的方案講出來然後能夠給我一份報告來講好不好因為這個也非常重要但是最重要的點今天要跟這個部長討論就是我們教師的團體\n305515\t333454\t曾经多次的呼吁多年来也一直在呼吁就是政府应该要正视我们教师行政负担过重的这个问题那而且呢我们过去这么多年我们一直在诉求行政减量还建议我们希望要增设专职的行政人员让我们的老师可以很专心在他教学的工作上面不要心有旁骛甚至有很大的压力那教育部呢从104年开始起那部里面也成立了工作圈\n335555\t343878\t相關的措施 辦法 解決的方案等等可是十年過去了 還是問題依舊在部長能不能說明一下謝謝委員 我講確實老師現在的一個因為少子化 因為家長的每一個小孩都是家長的寶所以他們面臨的挑戰確實是大我們直接針對行政簡單的工作來講好不好行政的部分 我先簡單回應委員剛才所談的steam 我們事實上\n364424\t370666\t那個部長我的時間有限 我覺得行政減量這個部分我們能不能談一下行政減量我們事實上已經發問給各地方政府陳委員所關心 特別國中因為校士事件的一個越來越頻繁我們教育部在這個部分跟地方合作我們補充這一個\n382851\t405209\t專任的這些 約聘的行政人員或者尊重學校有副組長的這樣一個職位上的這些都是我提的剛才我們在過去幾年有做的措施嘛但顯然說當然有做都是最好的沒有做可能更慘但十年來不能解決我是覺得我們教育部還是要徹底想一想那不能說我有做了這一點那一點但是如果成效不彰我們要去思考怎麼樣才能夠把這個問題做解決\n408292\t427931\t本席知道這個在近期大概台北市包括建中等幾個學校他們有去越南去參訪那有一所叫做丁善理中學以這個學校為例這個部長知道嗎這個學校有一千名的學生那有一百名的老師那這個師生比一比十這不打緊更重要的是他配有一百個專職的行政人員\n428852\t448037\t所以其實你看看我們的老師其實真的非常的辛苦所以這一點希望部長要去正視它那能夠提出更具體有效的行政減量的執行方案那您剛剛所說的那些我們都有在做當然希望能夠繼續不過要去想一想真正能解決問題的辦法趕快把它提出來那這個部分的話公務員報告\n449757\t464665\t其實中央教育部真的有很多的瓶頸很多的行政都在大量的減量可是當教育部在減量的時候地方政府也期待學校有更多的一些這些教育的一些服務反而地方也\n466386\t487497\t部長你想這個其實我沒有辦法完全接受那我當然覺得就是教育是中央地方一體的然後我們要去思考看看什麼樣的工作該留住本來就要留住嘛但是呢過多複雜繁榮的這些程序啦或不需要作業該減少就要減少那並不是說地方也覺得需要一些服務什麼我覺得這個不存在啦但是我們還是希望說我們這個問題共同去解決\n490118\t519194\t接下來我想說要跟部長也討論一下那也就是說我們現在看到一個問題就是我們教育部從93年起你也制定了中央政府推動建立員工學習制度而且給予一些獎勵的辦法有嘛對不對那我們希望他在做學習的時候能夠給予員工貸薪或者薪費補助或工價其他方式是制度性的在帶動員工在職學習那尤其我知道我們那個葉秉成次長上任之後\n519734\t539293\t市长这边也有运用过很多过去你自己的经验人脉开了很多的这个课程让大家去做一些这个进修我觉得很好那但是比较之下我们发现了我们全国的教保员的研习制度的配套就急需要改善还需要去落实那最近有教育团体在4月8号指出\n539833\t556311\t教育部跟地方政府針對教保員的研習並沒有營造友善進修的環境甚至於配套全國不一致那我們看到因為我們這些教保員所在的遠所因為教保的人力經費跟成本的考量要利用假日的進修不但沒有加班費\n556912\t586070\t甚至于工价的补修也因为缺乏代理人力根本没有办法落实那同时我们再看到教保服务人员条例里面第34条48条的规定所有教保员必须每年要接受18小时的研习如果没有旅行那么要罚1000到6000元换句话说我们对于教保人员呢只有棍棒没有萝卜只有惩罚没有奖励所以这是一个很严重的问题那当然我想\n586971\t593539\t教育部在111年下半年也跟各地方政府來開會了來解決這樣一個配套的這個機制上的問題那當中有三個決議我簡單的來個部長讓您這個回憶一下我們教保員如果經過指派參加研習要何以工價如果是在上班時間外\n605694\t635374\t我們就應該要公價並且遵御補休跟加班費這一點沒有問題第二個因為台南市屏東縣的教保服務人員在假日如果他自願參加研習那學校也同意的話我們是應該給他公價並且補休但是時數上限18小時所以也要建起其他的縣市比照辦理那最後大家希望在教育部也好地方也好我們可以開一些線上的這些課程讓大家多元去進修但是我想\n636074\t651363\t兩年的時間過去了這個會議的時間兩年的時間過去了那我們對於我們現在有沒有去追蹤各地方政府對於假日參加研習有沒有給予工價或者是補修的機制配套或者多元的這個管道的部分現在是怎麼落實在做\n655183\t674330\t謝謝委員提醒 確實我們給幼保研這一個公價補修縣市提供線上課程但是有部分的縣市可能沒有落實我們再來前面來了解因為這兩天我也看到了這樣一個媒體上的一個報導我想我們中央跟地方來合作看怎麼樣來克服\n675810\t698198\t我最後一分鐘提醒您第一個我們有做線上但是我們可能不是所有的課程都有有些研習它可能只有實體那可能會不符合他們的需求那這個問題怎麼解決第二個您剛剛提到說有些縣市沒有落實既然我們都知道這樣的一個訊息我們是不是要全面趕快盤查是哪些縣市沒有落實而它沒有落實的原因是什麼\n698698\t727438\t需不需要給予什麼樣的協助那該查也要去查那既然會議做了決定我們就要把它落實下來讓我們教保人員在進修的時候既能符合法令那麼又可以去享有我們對他給予應該有的獎勵這可以做得到嗎這是我們的分內的工作我們應該要努力那部長能不能一個月之內以上這一些就本席今天提出來的一個月之內我們把它整理之後那把這個報告送上來我們教育文化委員會可以嗎可以好 謝謝\n729633\t730196\t謝謝\n","txt":"美領委員質詢好 謝謝昭偉 我們有請鄭部長請鄭部長列資訊\n委員好部長早我想我們教育界在這幾年面臨了很嚴重的教師荒問題部長一定有注意到無論是偏鄉或者是現在連都會的學校都有遇到教師招募困難的一個狀況\n那甚至於從媒體上面的報導我們還看到教師不僅有難以招募的一個困境還出現了教師出走潮人數是逐年的減少請問一下您是否有感受到這樣的一個危機還是覺得媒體的報導稍嫌誇大\n感謝委員的指導 我想我們的教師這個人力上的一個補充確實趕不上產業上的一個變化好 所以是有這樣的一個危機在好 我們再來看 根據教育部的統計 有發現近兩年我們各縣市正式教師職缺跟實際錄取的人數\n落差大幅的擴大112年共有576個缺額未能錄取113年進一步攀升到806個那麼增加了230個缺額那這個缺幅這個缺額的增幅高達快要40%\n我們看到為什麼現在各縣市的教師缺額不減反增所以我們有沒有去思考第一個到底這個原因是什麼那又如何解決那是教師甄選的門檻過高還是我們縣市有一些政策沒有辦法去吸引這些優秀人才進入我們的教育體系那請部長做個簡答\n謝謝委員我想這大概可以從兩個面向來看第一個是因為產業上的誘因很大那第二個是因為少子化各地方縣市政府他也擔心因為對現有的教師的一個權益的照顧\n不希望因為少子化而減少對老師的一些工作權上的一些點出了兩個很重要的原因那當然我們去看其實整個失陪的一個狀況根據教育部我們自己師資培育統計的年報高中以下的單科教師的甄選報考人數也是明顯下滑的110年的報考人數是35909人112年\n降到了29415人短短一年的时间而已这个报考人数就减少了7736人所以我想这当然这个整个原因是非常的多除了您上述所讲的两个原因之外恐怕还有很多是我们应该把它整理起来的\n因為我們知道過去我們知道當老師是一個非常受到尊敬的一個職業而且是一個非常穩定的職業那過去其實很多人都願意來投入教職那這幾年這樣的狀況其實值得我們去想每一個原因不管是大的因素小的影響我們要把它找出來才能夠去解決那\n更严重的雪上加霜是我们除了招募困难之外那这几年教师的离退的情形有让人看了非常的忧心111年全国公立高中级以下的学校总共有3772名教师离职退休或者留职停薪那112年这个数字还上升到了\n4196人那麼大幅的增加那113年的統計資料還沒有出來但是本席猜測應該也不樂觀所以從統計年報可以看到除了留職停薪的人數略降一點點之外離職跟退休的老師這個趨勢都是成長的所以我們看到又是招募有困難出走潮又越來越大\n所以我觉得对于我们教育现场来说其实是很严峻的一个状况那当然\n对我们老师的尊重度也越来越少所以老师常常会觉得那不如规矩嘛那同时他们除了教育的本质之外还要负担大量的行政部长我们看根据这个师资统计年报显示我们高中以下的这个科技领域的师资报考人数也是大幅下降的我们看到国中的报考人数减少了142人高中88人高职电机跟电子群的师资也减少58人\n所以我想對於我們這個科技的領域的這師資也是下滑的這一點我想也是會後看部長是不是能夠把這個問題找出來然後具體的方案講出來然後能夠給我一份報告來講好不好因為這個也非常重要但是最重要的點今天要跟這個部長討論就是我們教師的團體\n曾经多次的呼吁多年来也一直在呼吁就是政府应该要正视我们教师行政负担过重的这个问题那而且呢我们过去这么多年我们一直在诉求行政减量还建议我们希望要增设专职的行政人员让我们的老师可以很专心在他教学的工作上面不要心有旁骛甚至有很大的压力那教育部呢从104年开始起那部里面也成立了工作圈\n相關的措施 辦法 解決的方案等等可是十年過去了 還是問題依舊在部長能不能說明一下謝謝委員 我講確實老師現在的一個因為少子化 因為家長的每一個小孩都是家長的寶所以他們面臨的挑戰確實是大我們直接針對行政簡單的工作來講好不好行政的部分 我先簡單回應委員剛才所談的steam 我們事實上\n那個部長我的時間有限 我覺得行政減量這個部分我們能不能談一下行政減量我們事實上已經發問給各地方政府陳委員所關心 特別國中因為校士事件的一個越來越頻繁我們教育部在這個部分跟地方合作我們補充這一個\n專任的這些 約聘的行政人員或者尊重學校有副組長的這樣一個職位上的這些都是我提的剛才我們在過去幾年有做的措施嘛但顯然說當然有做都是最好的沒有做可能更慘但十年來不能解決我是覺得我們教育部還是要徹底想一想那不能說我有做了這一點那一點但是如果成效不彰我們要去思考怎麼樣才能夠把這個問題做解決\n本席知道這個在近期大概台北市包括建中等幾個學校他們有去越南去參訪那有一所叫做丁善理中學以這個學校為例這個部長知道嗎這個學校有一千名的學生那有一百名的老師那這個師生比一比十這不打緊更重要的是他配有一百個專職的行政人員\n所以其實你看看我們的老師其實真的非常的辛苦所以這一點希望部長要去正視它那能夠提出更具體有效的行政減量的執行方案那您剛剛所說的那些我們都有在做當然希望能夠繼續不過要去想一想真正能解決問題的辦法趕快把它提出來那這個部分的話公務員報告\n其實中央教育部真的有很多的瓶頸很多的行政都在大量的減量可是當教育部在減量的時候地方政府也期待學校有更多的一些這些教育的一些服務反而地方也\n部長你想這個其實我沒有辦法完全接受那我當然覺得就是教育是中央地方一體的然後我們要去思考看看什麼樣的工作該留住本來就要留住嘛但是呢過多複雜繁榮的這些程序啦或不需要作業該減少就要減少那並不是說地方也覺得需要一些服務什麼我覺得這個不存在啦但是我們還是希望說我們這個問題共同去解決\n接下來我想說要跟部長也討論一下那也就是說我們現在看到一個問題就是我們教育部從93年起你也制定了中央政府推動建立員工學習制度而且給予一些獎勵的辦法有嘛對不對那我們希望他在做學習的時候能夠給予員工貸薪或者薪費補助或工價其他方式是制度性的在帶動員工在職學習那尤其我知道我們那個葉秉成次長上任之後\n市长这边也有运用过很多过去你自己的经验人脉开了很多的这个课程让大家去做一些这个进修我觉得很好那但是比较之下我们发现了我们全国的教保员的研习制度的配套就急需要改善还需要去落实那最近有教育团体在4月8号指出\n教育部跟地方政府針對教保員的研習並沒有營造友善進修的環境甚至於配套全國不一致那我們看到因為我們這些教保員所在的遠所因為教保的人力經費跟成本的考量要利用假日的進修不但沒有加班費\n甚至于工价的补修也因为缺乏代理人力根本没有办法落实那同时我们再看到教保服务人员条例里面第34条48条的规定所有教保员必须每年要接受18小时的研习如果没有旅行那么要罚1000到6000元换句话说我们对于教保人员呢只有棍棒没有萝卜只有惩罚没有奖励所以这是一个很严重的问题那当然我想\n教育部在111年下半年也跟各地方政府來開會了來解決這樣一個配套的這個機制上的問題那當中有三個決議我簡單的來個部長讓您這個回憶一下我們教保員如果經過指派參加研習要何以工價如果是在上班時間外\n我們就應該要公價並且遵御補休跟加班費這一點沒有問題第二個因為台南市屏東縣的教保服務人員在假日如果他自願參加研習那學校也同意的話我們是應該給他公價並且補休但是時數上限18小時所以也要建起其他的縣市比照辦理那最後大家希望在教育部也好地方也好我們可以開一些線上的這些課程讓大家多元去進修但是我想\n兩年的時間過去了這個會議的時間兩年的時間過去了那我們對於我們現在有沒有去追蹤各地方政府對於假日參加研習有沒有給予工價或者是補修的機制配套或者多元的這個管道的部分現在是怎麼落實在做\n謝謝委員提醒 確實我們給幼保研這一個公價補修縣市提供線上課程但是有部分的縣市可能沒有落實我們再來前面來了解因為這兩天我也看到了這樣一個媒體上的一個報導我想我們中央跟地方來合作看怎麼樣來克服\n我最後一分鐘提醒您第一個我們有做線上但是我們可能不是所有的課程都有有些研習它可能只有實體那可能會不符合他們的需求那這個問題怎麼解決第二個您剛剛提到說有些縣市沒有落實既然我們都知道這樣的一個訊息我們是不是要全面趕快盤查是哪些縣市沒有落實而它沒有落實的原因是什麼\n需不需要給予什麼樣的協助那該查也要去查那既然會議做了決定我們就要把它落實下來讓我們教保人員在進修的時候既能符合法令那麼又可以去享有我們對他給予應該有的獎勵這可以做得到嗎這是我們的分內的工作我們應該要努力那部長能不能一個月之內以上這一些就本席今天提出來的一個月之內我們把它整理之後那把這個報告送上來我們教育文化委員會可以嗎可以好 謝謝\n謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.140 --> 00:08.031\n美領委員質詢好謝謝昭偉我們有請鄭部長請鄭部長列資訊\n\n00:18.956 --> 00:33.374\n委員好部長早我想我們教育界在這幾年面臨了很嚴重的教師荒問題部長一定有注意到無論是偏鄉或者是現在連都會的學校都有遇到教師招募困難的一個狀況\n\n00:34.375 --> 00:48.788\n那甚至於從媒體上面的報導我們還看到教師不僅有難以招募的一個困境還出現了教師出走潮人數是逐年的減少請問一下您是否有感受到這樣的一個危機還是覺得媒體的報導稍嫌誇大\n\n00:52.877 --> 01:11.637\n感謝委員的指導我想我們的教師這個人力上的一個補充確實趕不上產業上的一個變化好所以是有這樣的一個危機在好我們再來看根據教育部的統計有發現近兩年我們各縣市正式教師職缺跟實際錄取的人數\n\n01:13.539 --> 01:18.302\n落差大幅的擴大112年共有576個缺額未能錄取113年進一步攀升到806個那麼增加了230個缺額那這個缺幅這個缺額的增幅高達快要40%\n\n01:30.689 --> 01:46.647\n我們看到為什麼現在各縣市的教師缺額不減反增所以我們有沒有去思考第一個到底這個原因是什麼那又如何解決那是教師甄選的門檻過高還是我們縣市有一些政策沒有辦法去吸引這些優秀人才進入我們的教育體系那請部長做個簡答\n\n01:48.737 --> 02:04.666\n謝謝委員我想這大概可以從兩個面向來看第一個是因為產業上的誘因很大那第二個是因為少子化各地方縣市政府他也擔心因為對現有的教師的一個權益的照顧\n\n02:05.586 --> 02:22.522\n不希望因為少子化而減少對老師的一些工作權上的一些點出了兩個很重要的原因那當然我們去看其實整個失陪的一個狀況根據教育部我們自己師資培育統計的年報高中以下的單科教師的甄選報考人數也是明顯下滑的110年的報考人數是35909人112年\n\n02:31.630 --> 02:48.344\n降到了29415人短短一年的时间而已这个报考人数就减少了7736人所以我想这当然这个整个原因是非常的多除了您上述所讲的两个原因之外恐怕还有很多是我们应该把它整理起来的\n\n02:48.704 --> 03:04.804\n因為我們知道過去我們知道當老師是一個非常受到尊敬的一個職業而且是一個非常穩定的職業那過去其實很多人都願意來投入教職那這幾年這樣的狀況其實值得我們去想每一個原因不管是大的因素小的影響我們要把它找出來才能夠去解決那\n\n03:05.865 --> 03:24.811\n更严重的雪上加霜是我们除了招募困难之外那这几年教师的离退的情形有让人看了非常的忧心111年全国公立高中级以下的学校总共有3772名教师离职退休或者留职停薪那112年这个数字还上升到了\n\n03:26.552 --> 03:47.129\n4196人那麼大幅的增加那113年的統計資料還沒有出來但是本席猜測應該也不樂觀所以從統計年報可以看到除了留職停薪的人數略降一點點之外離職跟退休的老師這個趨勢都是成長的所以我們看到又是招募有困難出走潮又越來越大\n\n03:47.789 --> 03:52.512\n所以我觉得对于我们教育现场来说其实是很严峻的一个状况那当然\n\n04:17.609 --> 04:43.508\n对我们老师的尊重度也越来越少所以老师常常会觉得那不如规矩嘛那同时他们除了教育的本质之外还要负担大量的行政部长我们看根据这个师资统计年报显示我们高中以下的这个科技领域的师资报考人数也是大幅下降的我们看到国中的报考人数减少了142人高中88人高职电机跟电子群的师资也减少58人\n\n04:45.249 --> 05:02.434\n所以我想對於我們這個科技的領域的這師資也是下滑的這一點我想也是會後看部長是不是能夠把這個問題找出來然後具體的方案講出來然後能夠給我一份報告來講好不好因為這個也非常重要但是最重要的點今天要跟這個部長討論就是我們教師的團體\n\n05:05.515 --> 05:33.454\n曾经多次的呼吁多年来也一直在呼吁就是政府应该要正视我们教师行政负担过重的这个问题那而且呢我们过去这么多年我们一直在诉求行政减量还建议我们希望要增设专职的行政人员让我们的老师可以很专心在他教学的工作上面不要心有旁骛甚至有很大的压力那教育部呢从104年开始起那部里面也成立了工作圈\n\n05:35.555 --> 05:43.878\n相關的措施辦法解決的方案等等可是十年過去了還是問題依舊在部長能不能說明一下謝謝委員我講確實老師現在的一個因為少子化因為家長的每一個小孩都是家長的寶所以他們面臨的挑戰確實是大我們直接針對行政簡單的工作來講好不好行政的部分我先簡單回應委員剛才所談的steam我們事實上\n\n06:04.424 --> 06:10.666\n那個部長我的時間有限我覺得行政減量這個部分我們能不能談一下行政減量我們事實上已經發問給各地方政府陳委員所關心特別國中因為校士事件的一個越來越頻繁我們教育部在這個部分跟地方合作我們補充這一個\n\n06:22.851 --> 06:45.209\n專任的這些約聘的行政人員或者尊重學校有副組長的這樣一個職位上的這些都是我提的剛才我們在過去幾年有做的措施嘛但顯然說當然有做都是最好的沒有做可能更慘但十年來不能解決我是覺得我們教育部還是要徹底想一想那不能說我有做了這一點那一點但是如果成效不彰我們要去思考怎麼樣才能夠把這個問題做解決\n\n06:48.292 --> 07:07.931\n本席知道這個在近期大概台北市包括建中等幾個學校他們有去越南去參訪那有一所叫做丁善理中學以這個學校為例這個部長知道嗎這個學校有一千名的學生那有一百名的老師那這個師生比一比十這不打緊更重要的是他配有一百個專職的行政人員\n\n07:08.852 --> 07:28.037\n所以其實你看看我們的老師其實真的非常的辛苦所以這一點希望部長要去正視它那能夠提出更具體有效的行政減量的執行方案那您剛剛所說的那些我們都有在做當然希望能夠繼續不過要去想一想真正能解決問題的辦法趕快把它提出來那這個部分的話公務員報告\n\n07:29.757 --> 07:44.665\n其實中央教育部真的有很多的瓶頸很多的行政都在大量的減量可是當教育部在減量的時候地方政府也期待學校有更多的一些這些教育的一些服務反而地方也\n\n07:46.386 --> 08:07.497\n部長你想這個其實我沒有辦法完全接受那我當然覺得就是教育是中央地方一體的然後我們要去思考看看什麼樣的工作該留住本來就要留住嘛但是呢過多複雜繁榮的這些程序啦或不需要作業該減少就要減少那並不是說地方也覺得需要一些服務什麼我覺得這個不存在啦但是我們還是希望說我們這個問題共同去解決\n\n08:10.118 --> 08:39.194\n接下來我想說要跟部長也討論一下那也就是說我們現在看到一個問題就是我們教育部從93年起你也制定了中央政府推動建立員工學習制度而且給予一些獎勵的辦法有嘛對不對那我們希望他在做學習的時候能夠給予員工貸薪或者薪費補助或工價其他方式是制度性的在帶動員工在職學習那尤其我知道我們那個葉秉成次長上任之後\n\n08:39.734 --> 08:59.293\n市长这边也有运用过很多过去你自己的经验人脉开了很多的这个课程让大家去做一些这个进修我觉得很好那但是比较之下我们发现了我们全国的教保员的研习制度的配套就急需要改善还需要去落实那最近有教育团体在4月8号指出\n\n08:59.833 --> 09:16.311\n教育部跟地方政府針對教保員的研習並沒有營造友善進修的環境甚至於配套全國不一致那我們看到因為我們這些教保員所在的遠所因為教保的人力經費跟成本的考量要利用假日的進修不但沒有加班費\n\n09:16.912 --> 09:46.070\n甚至于工价的补修也因为缺乏代理人力根本没有办法落实那同时我们再看到教保服务人员条例里面第34条48条的规定所有教保员必须每年要接受18小时的研习如果没有旅行那么要罚1000到6000元换句话说我们对于教保人员呢只有棍棒没有萝卜只有惩罚没有奖励所以这是一个很严重的问题那当然我想\n\n09:46.971 --> 09:53.539\n教育部在111年下半年也跟各地方政府來開會了來解決這樣一個配套的這個機制上的問題那當中有三個決議我簡單的來個部長讓您這個回憶一下我們教保員如果經過指派參加研習要何以工價如果是在上班時間外\n\n10:05.694 --> 10:35.374\n我們就應該要公價並且遵御補休跟加班費這一點沒有問題第二個因為台南市屏東縣的教保服務人員在假日如果他自願參加研習那學校也同意的話我們是應該給他公價並且補休但是時數上限18小時所以也要建起其他的縣市比照辦理那最後大家希望在教育部也好地方也好我們可以開一些線上的這些課程讓大家多元去進修但是我想\n\n10:36.074 --> 10:51.363\n兩年的時間過去了這個會議的時間兩年的時間過去了那我們對於我們現在有沒有去追蹤各地方政府對於假日參加研習有沒有給予工價或者是補修的機制配套或者多元的這個管道的部分現在是怎麼落實在做\n\n10:55.183 --> 11:14.330\n謝謝委員提醒確實我們給幼保研這一個公價補修縣市提供線上課程但是有部分的縣市可能沒有落實我們再來前面來了解因為這兩天我也看到了這樣一個媒體上的一個報導我想我們中央跟地方來合作看怎麼樣來克服\n\n11:15.810 --> 11:38.198\n我最後一分鐘提醒您第一個我們有做線上但是我們可能不是所有的課程都有有些研習它可能只有實體那可能會不符合他們的需求那這個問題怎麼解決第二個您剛剛提到說有些縣市沒有落實既然我們都知道這樣的一個訊息我們是不是要全面趕快盤查是哪些縣市沒有落實而它沒有落實的原因是什麼\n\n11:38.698 --> 12:07.438\n需不需要給予什麼樣的協助那該查也要去查那既然會議做了決定我們就要把它落實下來讓我們教保人員在進修的時候既能符合法令那麼又可以去享有我們對他給予應該有的獎勵這可以做得到嗎這是我們的分內的工作我們應該要努力那部長能不能一個月之內以上這一些就本席今天提出來的一個月之內我們把它整理之後那把這個報告送上來我們教育文化委員會可以嗎可以好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.14,"end":8.031,"text":"美領委員質詢好 謝謝昭偉 我們有請鄭部長請鄭部長列資訊"},{"start":18.956,"end":33.374,"text":"委員好部長早我想我們教育界在這幾年面臨了很嚴重的教師荒問題部長一定有注意到無論是偏鄉或者是現在連都會的學校都有遇到教師招募困難的一個狀況"},{"start":34.375,"end":48.788,"text":"那甚至於從媒體上面的報導我們還看到教師不僅有難以招募的一個困境還出現了教師出走潮人數是逐年的減少請問一下您是否有感受到這樣的一個危機還是覺得媒體的報導稍嫌誇大"},{"start":52.877,"end":71.637,"text":"感謝委員的指導 我想我們的教師這個人力上的一個補充確實趕不上產業上的一個變化好 所以是有這樣的一個危機在好 我們再來看 根據教育部的統計 有發現近兩年我們各縣市正式教師職缺跟實際錄取的人數"},{"start":73.539,"end":78.302,"text":"落差大幅的擴大112年共有576個缺額未能錄取113年進一步攀升到806個那麼增加了230個缺額那這個缺幅這個缺額的增幅高達快要40%"},{"start":90.689,"end":106.647,"text":"我們看到為什麼現在各縣市的教師缺額不減反增所以我們有沒有去思考第一個到底這個原因是什麼那又如何解決那是教師甄選的門檻過高還是我們縣市有一些政策沒有辦法去吸引這些優秀人才進入我們的教育體系那請部長做個簡答"},{"start":108.737,"end":124.666,"text":"謝謝委員我想這大概可以從兩個面向來看第一個是因為產業上的誘因很大那第二個是因為少子化各地方縣市政府他也擔心因為對現有的教師的一個權益的照顧"},{"start":125.586,"end":142.522,"text":"不希望因為少子化而減少對老師的一些工作權上的一些點出了兩個很重要的原因那當然我們去看其實整個失陪的一個狀況根據教育部我們自己師資培育統計的年報高中以下的單科教師的甄選報考人數也是明顯下滑的110年的報考人數是35909人112年"},{"start":151.63,"end":168.344,"text":"降到了29415人短短一年的时间而已这个报考人数就减少了7736人所以我想这当然这个整个原因是非常的多除了您上述所讲的两个原因之外恐怕还有很多是我们应该把它整理起来的"},{"start":168.704,"end":184.804,"text":"因為我們知道過去我們知道當老師是一個非常受到尊敬的一個職業而且是一個非常穩定的職業那過去其實很多人都願意來投入教職那這幾年這樣的狀況其實值得我們去想每一個原因不管是大的因素小的影響我們要把它找出來才能夠去解決那"},{"start":185.865,"end":204.811,"text":"更严重的雪上加霜是我们除了招募困难之外那这几年教师的离退的情形有让人看了非常的忧心111年全国公立高中级以下的学校总共有3772名教师离职退休或者留职停薪那112年这个数字还上升到了"},{"start":206.552,"end":227.129,"text":"4196人那麼大幅的增加那113年的統計資料還沒有出來但是本席猜測應該也不樂觀所以從統計年報可以看到除了留職停薪的人數略降一點點之外離職跟退休的老師這個趨勢都是成長的所以我們看到又是招募有困難出走潮又越來越大"},{"start":227.789,"end":232.512,"text":"所以我觉得对于我们教育现场来说其实是很严峻的一个状况那当然"},{"start":257.609,"end":283.508,"text":"对我们老师的尊重度也越来越少所以老师常常会觉得那不如规矩嘛那同时他们除了教育的本质之外还要负担大量的行政部长我们看根据这个师资统计年报显示我们高中以下的这个科技领域的师资报考人数也是大幅下降的我们看到国中的报考人数减少了142人高中88人高职电机跟电子群的师资也减少58人"},{"start":285.249,"end":302.434,"text":"所以我想對於我們這個科技的領域的這師資也是下滑的這一點我想也是會後看部長是不是能夠把這個問題找出來然後具體的方案講出來然後能夠給我一份報告來講好不好因為這個也非常重要但是最重要的點今天要跟這個部長討論就是我們教師的團體"},{"start":305.515,"end":333.454,"text":"曾经多次的呼吁多年来也一直在呼吁就是政府应该要正视我们教师行政负担过重的这个问题那而且呢我们过去这么多年我们一直在诉求行政减量还建议我们希望要增设专职的行政人员让我们的老师可以很专心在他教学的工作上面不要心有旁骛甚至有很大的压力那教育部呢从104年开始起那部里面也成立了工作圈"},{"start":335.555,"end":343.878,"text":"相關的措施 辦法 解決的方案等等可是十年過去了 還是問題依舊在部長能不能說明一下謝謝委員 我講確實老師現在的一個因為少子化 因為家長的每一個小孩都是家長的寶所以他們面臨的挑戰確實是大我們直接針對行政簡單的工作來講好不好行政的部分 我先簡單回應委員剛才所談的steam 我們事實上"},{"start":364.424,"end":370.666,"text":"那個部長我的時間有限 我覺得行政減量這個部分我們能不能談一下行政減量我們事實上已經發問給各地方政府陳委員所關心 特別國中因為校士事件的一個越來越頻繁我們教育部在這個部分跟地方合作我們補充這一個"},{"start":382.851,"end":405.209,"text":"專任的這些 約聘的行政人員或者尊重學校有副組長的這樣一個職位上的這些都是我提的剛才我們在過去幾年有做的措施嘛但顯然說當然有做都是最好的沒有做可能更慘但十年來不能解決我是覺得我們教育部還是要徹底想一想那不能說我有做了這一點那一點但是如果成效不彰我們要去思考怎麼樣才能夠把這個問題做解決"},{"start":408.292,"end":427.931,"text":"本席知道這個在近期大概台北市包括建中等幾個學校他們有去越南去參訪那有一所叫做丁善理中學以這個學校為例這個部長知道嗎這個學校有一千名的學生那有一百名的老師那這個師生比一比十這不打緊更重要的是他配有一百個專職的行政人員"},{"start":428.852,"end":448.037,"text":"所以其實你看看我們的老師其實真的非常的辛苦所以這一點希望部長要去正視它那能夠提出更具體有效的行政減量的執行方案那您剛剛所說的那些我們都有在做當然希望能夠繼續不過要去想一想真正能解決問題的辦法趕快把它提出來那這個部分的話公務員報告"},{"start":449.757,"end":464.665,"text":"其實中央教育部真的有很多的瓶頸很多的行政都在大量的減量可是當教育部在減量的時候地方政府也期待學校有更多的一些這些教育的一些服務反而地方也"},{"start":466.386,"end":487.497,"text":"部長你想這個其實我沒有辦法完全接受那我當然覺得就是教育是中央地方一體的然後我們要去思考看看什麼樣的工作該留住本來就要留住嘛但是呢過多複雜繁榮的這些程序啦或不需要作業該減少就要減少那並不是說地方也覺得需要一些服務什麼我覺得這個不存在啦但是我們還是希望說我們這個問題共同去解決"},{"start":490.118,"end":519.194,"text":"接下來我想說要跟部長也討論一下那也就是說我們現在看到一個問題就是我們教育部從93年起你也制定了中央政府推動建立員工學習制度而且給予一些獎勵的辦法有嘛對不對那我們希望他在做學習的時候能夠給予員工貸薪或者薪費補助或工價其他方式是制度性的在帶動員工在職學習那尤其我知道我們那個葉秉成次長上任之後"},{"start":519.734,"end":539.293,"text":"市长这边也有运用过很多过去你自己的经验人脉开了很多的这个课程让大家去做一些这个进修我觉得很好那但是比较之下我们发现了我们全国的教保员的研习制度的配套就急需要改善还需要去落实那最近有教育团体在4月8号指出"},{"start":539.833,"end":556.311,"text":"教育部跟地方政府針對教保員的研習並沒有營造友善進修的環境甚至於配套全國不一致那我們看到因為我們這些教保員所在的遠所因為教保的人力經費跟成本的考量要利用假日的進修不但沒有加班費"},{"start":556.912,"end":586.07,"text":"甚至于工价的补修也因为缺乏代理人力根本没有办法落实那同时我们再看到教保服务人员条例里面第34条48条的规定所有教保员必须每年要接受18小时的研习如果没有旅行那么要罚1000到6000元换句话说我们对于教保人员呢只有棍棒没有萝卜只有惩罚没有奖励所以这是一个很严重的问题那当然我想"},{"start":586.971,"end":593.539,"text":"教育部在111年下半年也跟各地方政府來開會了來解決這樣一個配套的這個機制上的問題那當中有三個決議我簡單的來個部長讓您這個回憶一下我們教保員如果經過指派參加研習要何以工價如果是在上班時間外"},{"start":605.694,"end":635.374,"text":"我們就應該要公價並且遵御補休跟加班費這一點沒有問題第二個因為台南市屏東縣的教保服務人員在假日如果他自願參加研習那學校也同意的話我們是應該給他公價並且補休但是時數上限18小時所以也要建起其他的縣市比照辦理那最後大家希望在教育部也好地方也好我們可以開一些線上的這些課程讓大家多元去進修但是我想"},{"start":636.074,"end":651.363,"text":"兩年的時間過去了這個會議的時間兩年的時間過去了那我們對於我們現在有沒有去追蹤各地方政府對於假日參加研習有沒有給予工價或者是補修的機制配套或者多元的這個管道的部分現在是怎麼落實在做"},{"start":655.183,"end":674.33,"text":"謝謝委員提醒 確實我們給幼保研這一個公價補修縣市提供線上課程但是有部分的縣市可能沒有落實我們再來前面來了解因為這兩天我也看到了這樣一個媒體上的一個報導我想我們中央跟地方來合作看怎麼樣來克服"},{"start":675.81,"end":698.198,"text":"我最後一分鐘提醒您第一個我們有做線上但是我們可能不是所有的課程都有有些研習它可能只有實體那可能會不符合他們的需求那這個問題怎麼解決第二個您剛剛提到說有些縣市沒有落實既然我們都知道這樣的一個訊息我們是不是要全面趕快盤查是哪些縣市沒有落實而它沒有落實的原因是什麼"},{"start":698.698,"end":727.438,"text":"需不需要給予什麼樣的協助那該查也要去查那既然會議做了決定我們就要把它落實下來讓我們教保人員在進修的時候既能符合法令那麼又可以去享有我們對他給予應該有的獎勵這可以做得到嗎這是我們的分內的工作我們應該要努力那部長能不能一個月之內以上這一些就本席今天提出來的一個月之內我們把它整理之後那把這個報告送上來我們教育文化委員會可以嗎可以好 謝謝"},{"start":729.633,"end":730.196,"text":"謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":75,"blocks":[["萬委員美玲：（9時16分）謝謝召委，我們有請鄭部長。"],["主席：請鄭部長備詢。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["萬委員美玲：部長早。教育界這幾年面臨很嚴重的教師荒的問題，部長一定有注意到，無論是偏鄉或者是現在連都會的學校，都有遇到教師招募困難的狀況，甚至從媒體上面的報導我們還看到，教師不僅有難以招募的困境，還出現了教師出走潮，人數逐年減少。請問一下，您是否有感受到這樣的危機，還是覺得媒體的報導稍嫌誇大？"],["鄭部長英耀：感謝委員的指導，我想我們教師人力的補充確實趕不上產業上的變化。"],["萬委員美玲：好，所以是有這樣的一個危機在。","我們再來看，根據教育部的統計，發現近2年各縣市正式教師職缺跟實際錄取人數的落差大幅擴大，112年共有576個缺額未能錄取，113年進一步攀升到806個，增加了230個缺額，缺額增幅高達快要40%。為什麼現在各縣市的教師缺額不減反增？你們有沒有去思考到底原因是什麼？又要如何解決？是教師甄選的門檻過高，還是有些現行政策沒辦法吸引優秀人才進入我們的教育體系？請部長做個簡答。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員，我想這大概可以從兩個面向來看，第一個是因為產業上的誘因很大，第二個是因為少子化，各地方縣市政府也擔心因為對現有教師權益的照顧，不希望因為少子化而減少對老師的一些工作權上的……"],["萬委員美玲：好，謝謝部長點出兩個很重要的原因。我們去看整個師培的狀況，根據教育部的師資培育統計年報，各級學校單科甄選報考人數也在明顯下滑，110年的報考人數是35,909人，112年降到29,415人，短短一年的時間而已，報考人數就減少7,736人。我想這整個原因當然非常多，除了您上述的兩個原因之外，恐怕還有很多是我們應該把它整理起來的。因為我們知道老師在過去是一個非常受到尊敬的職業，而且是一個非常穩定的職業，很多人都願意投入教職。這幾年這樣的狀況，其實值得我們去深思相關的原因，不管是大的因素或小的影響，我們都要把它找出來，才能解決問題。","雪上加霜的是，除了招募困難之外，這幾年教師離退的情形也讓人看了非常憂心。111年全國公立高中以下學校總共有3,772名教師離職、退休或者是留職停薪，112年這個數字還上升到了4,196人，大幅增加；113年的統計資料還沒有出來，但是本席猜測應該也不樂觀。","所以從統計年報可以看到，除了留職停薪的人數略降一點點之外，離職和退休老師人數的趨勢都是成長的，所以我們看到又是招募有困難，出走潮又越來越大，所以我覺得對於我們教育現場來說，其實是很嚴峻的一個狀況，當然您剛剛有說到我們少子化，縣市政府因應做準備，但我覺得這個因素不是那麼大，最重要的是，第一個，現在我們有一些薪資上面結構的問題，恐怕有些優秀的人才更願意去私人企業，這是一個很大問題。第二個是我們講了很久的，現在我們的工作環境也越來越辛苦，對老師的尊重度也越來越少，所以老師常常會覺得不如歸去嘛！同時，他們除了教育的本質之外，還要負擔大量的行政。部長，根據師資統計年報顯示，高中以下科技領域的師資報考人數也是大幅下降的，我們看到國中的報考人數減少了142人，高中88人，高職電機跟電子群的師資也減少58人，所以對於我們科技領域的師資也是下滑的。這一點我想也是會後看部長是不是能夠把這個問題找出來，把具體的方案講出來，然後能夠給我一份報告，好不好？因為這個也非常重要。","但是最重要的點，今天要跟部長討論的就是，教師的團體曾經多次的呼籲，多年來也一直在呼籲政府應該要正視我們教師行政負擔過重的這個問題。而且過去這麼多年，我們一直在訴求行政減量，還提出建議，我們希望要增設專責的行政人員，讓老師可以很專心在他教學的工作上面，不要心有旁騖，甚至有很大的壓力。教育部從104年開始起，部裡面也成立了工作圈去討論行政減量相關的措施、辦法、解決的方案等等，可是10年過去了，問題依舊在。部長能不能說明一下？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員。我想確實老師現在因為少子化，因為每一個小孩都是家長的寶，所以他們面臨的挑戰確實是大的……"],["萬委員美玲：我們直接針對行政減量工作來講，好不好？"],["鄭部長英耀：行政的部分，我大概先簡單回應委員剛才所談的STEAM，我們事實上注意到，而且暑假……"],["萬委員美玲：部長，我的時間有限，我覺得行政減量這個部分，我們能不能談一下？10年過去為什麼問題依舊在？"],["鄭部長英耀：行政減量的部分，事實上我們已經發文給各地方政府，誠如委員所關心，特別是國中，因為校事事件越來越頻繁，教育部在這個部分跟地方合作，我們補充專任的這一些約聘的行政人力，或者尊重學校有副組長這樣的一個職位上的……"],["萬委員美玲：這些都是我剛才提的我們在過去幾年有做的措施，當然有做都是最好的，沒有做可能更慘，但10年來不能解決，我是覺得我們教育部還是要澈底想一想，不能說你們有做了這一點、那一點，但是如果成效不彰，我們要去思考怎麼樣才能夠把這個問題解決。","本席知道在近期大概臺北市，包括建中等幾個學校，他們有去越南參訪，有一所叫做丁善理中學，以這個學校為例，部長知道嗎？這個學校有1,000名的學生，有100名的老師，師生比是一比十，這不打緊，更重要的是，它配有100個專職的行政人員。你看看我們的老師，其實真的非常的辛苦，所以這一點希望部長要去正視，能夠提出更具體有效的行政減量執行方案，您剛剛所說的那些，我們都有在做，當然希望能夠繼續，不過要去想一想真正能解決問題的辦法，趕快把它提出來，這個部分希望……"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，其實中央教育部真的有很多的評鑑、很多的行政都在大量的減量，可是當教育部在減量的時候，地方政府也期待學校有更多的教育服務，反而地方不知不覺也會增加。"],["萬委員美玲：部長，你講這個，其實我沒有辦法完全接受，我當然覺得教育是中央、地方一體的，我們要去思考看看什麼樣的工作該留住，本來就要留住嘛！但是過多複雜、繁冗的這些程序或不必要的作業，該減少就要減少，並不是地方也覺得需要有一些服務什麼的，我覺得這個不存在，但是我們還是希望這個問題我們要共同去解決。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員提醒，我想中央跟地方合作，我們是一定的……"],["萬委員美玲：接下來，我想跟部長也討論一下，我們現在看到一個問題是，教育部從93年起也制定了中央政府推動建立員工學習制度，而且給予一些獎勵的辦法，有嘛？對不對？我們希望他在做學習的時候，能夠給予員工帶薪或者經費補助或公假、其他方式，是制度性在帶動員工在職學習，尤其我知道葉丙成次長上任之後，次長這邊也有運用過很多過去你自己的經驗、人脈，開了很多的課程讓大家去做一些進修，我覺得很好，但是比較之下，我們發現全國教保員研習制度的配套就亟需改善，還需要去落實。","最近有教育團體在4月8日指出，教育部跟地方政府針對教保員的研習，並沒有營造友善進修的環境，甚至於配套全國不一致，我們看到這些教保員所在的園所，因為教保的人力、經費跟成本的考量，要利用假日的進修，不但沒有加班費，甚至於公假的補休也因為缺乏代理人力，根本沒有辦法落實。同時我們再看到教保服務人員條例第三十四條、第四十八條的規定，所有教保員必須每年要接受18小時的研習，如果沒有履行，那麼要罰1,000到6,000元，換句話說，我們對於教保人員只有棍棒，沒有蘿蔔；只有懲罰、沒有獎勵，所以這是一個很嚴重的問題。","當然教育部在111年下半年也跟各地方政府開會，以解決配套這個機制上的問題，當中有三個決議，我簡單地來讓部長回憶一下，教保員如果經過指派參加研習，要核予公假，如果是在上班時間外，我們就應該要給公假，並且准予補休跟加班費，這一點沒有問題。第二個，因為臺南市、屏東縣的教保服務人員，如果他自願在假日參加研習，學校也同意的話，我們是應該給他公假並且補休，但是時數上限18小時，所以也要建請其他的縣市比照辦理。最後，當然希望在教育部也好，地方也好，我們可以開一些線上的課程，讓大家多元進修。但是我想兩年的時間過去了，這個會議的時間，兩年的時間過去了，我們現在有沒有去追蹤各地方政府對於假日參加研習是否給予公假，或者是補休的機制配套，或者多元管道的部分，現在是怎麼落實在做？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員提醒，確實我們給幼保員公假、補休，甚至提供線上課程，但是有部分的縣市可能沒有落實，我們再來全面來了解，因為這兩天我也看到了媒體上的報導，我想我們中央跟地方來合作，看怎麼樣來克服這些地方上的……"],["萬委員美玲：好，部長，我最後1分鐘提醒您，第一個，我們有做線上，但是我們可能不是所有的課程都有，有些研習可能只有實體，可能會不符合他們的需求，這個問題怎麼解決？第二個，您剛剛提到有些縣市沒有落實，既然我們都知道這樣一個訊息，我們是不是該趕快全面盤查是哪些縣市沒有落實，而它沒有落實的原因是什麼、需不需要給予什麼樣的協助，該查也要去查，既然會議做了決定，我們就要把它落實下來，讓我們教保人員在進修的時候，既能符合法令，那麼又可以享有我們對他給予應該有的獎勵，這可以做得到嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：這是我們的份內的工作，我們應該要努力來做。"],["萬委員美玲：好，部長能不能把以上這一些本席今天提出來的問題，一個月之內把它整理之後，把這個報告送上來教育及文化委員會，可以嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：可以。"],["萬委員美玲：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝萬美玲委員質詢，請官員回座。","接下來請柯志恩委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":186,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-7","speakers":["葛如鈞","萬美玲","柯志恩","劉書彬","羅廷瑋","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林宜瑾","吳思瑤","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","林沛祥","張雅琳","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","范雲","李坤城","謝龍介","王定宇","黃國昌","翁曉玲","陳培瑜","葉元之","高金素梅"],"page_start":113,"meetingDate":["2025-04-14"],"gazette_id":"1143702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143702_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143702_00003"}}}