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54.984, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 54.984, \"end\": 56.005, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"書\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 56.005, \"end\": 56.285, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 56.285, \"end\": 56.465, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 56.465, \"end\": 56.585, \"score\": 0.723}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 56.585, \"end\": 56.725, \"score\": 0.671}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 56.725, \"end\": 56.885, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 56.885, \"end\": 57.366, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 57.366, \"end\": 57.386, \"score\": 0.472}]}, {\"start\": 58.207, \"end\": 73.58, \"text\": \"我們基本上這個解凍案這個都已經這個初步都已經完成但是因為上一次大驗還有一個636億這一個統三的所以呢讓我們在內部裡面不知道\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 58.207, \"end\": 58.547, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 58.547, \"end\": 58.807, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 58.807, \"end\": 59.047, 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\"但\", \"start\": 64.592, \"end\": 64.732, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 64.732, \"end\": 64.913, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 64.913, \"end\": 65.693, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 65.693, \"end\": 65.874, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 65.874, \"end\": 65.954, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 65.954, \"end\": 66.194, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 66.194, \"end\": 66.814, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"驗\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 66.814, \"end\": 66.954, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 66.954, \"end\": 68.996, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 68.996, \"end\": 70.698, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 70.698, \"end\": 70.938, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 70.938, \"end\": 71.098, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 71.098, \"end\": 71.298, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 71.298, \"end\": 71.418, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 71.418, \"end\": 71.839, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 71.839, \"end\": 72.179, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 72.179, \"end\": 72.68, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 72.68, \"end\": 73.02, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 73.02, \"end\": 73.26, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 73.26, \"end\": 73.42, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 73.42, \"end\": 73.56, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 73.56, \"end\": 73.58, \"score\": 0.999}]}, {\"start\": 74.561, \"end\": 98.18, \"text\": \"不知道就問主計處 如果主計處還沒有辦法告訴你你們這邊都是寫預估 就是主計處的失責我只是強調 不送案才是一個怠惰如果都寫好 我再問一下部長你有被要求不准送出解凍案嗎有被行政單位要求不准 目前為止不准送出解凍案嗎目前因為這個還是剛才跟委員報告的有沒有被要求\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 74.561, \"end\": 74.761, \"score\": 0.775}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 74.761, \"end\": 74.922, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 74.922, \"end\": 75.102, \"score\": 0.656}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 75.102, \"end\": 75.502, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 75.502, \"end\": 76.142, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 76.142, \"end\": 76.183, \"score\": 0.194}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 76.183, \"end\": 76.403, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 76.403, \"end\": 77.003, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 77.003, \"end\": 77.103, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 77.103, \"end\": 77.403, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 77.403, \"end\": 77.604, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 77.604, \"end\": 77.964, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"訴\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 77.964, \"end\": 78.084, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 78.084, \"end\": 78.644, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 78.644, \"end\": 78.765, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 78.765, \"end\": 79.285, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"寫\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"估\", \"start\": 79.285, \"end\": 79.405, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 79.405, \"end\": 79.505, \"score\": 0.678}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 79.505, \"end\": 79.665, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 79.665, \"end\": 80.386, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 80.386, \"end\": 80.606, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"失\", \"start\": 80.606, \"end\": 81.527, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"責\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 81.527, \"end\": 81.687, \"score\": 0.625}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 81.687, \"end\": 81.827, \"score\": 0.543}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 81.827, \"end\": 83.048, \"score\": 0.773}, {\"word\": \"強\"}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 83.048, \"end\": 83.268, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"送\", \"start\": 83.268, \"end\": 83.428, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 83.428, \"end\": 83.688, \"score\": 0.689}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 83.688, \"end\": 83.929, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 83.929, \"end\": 84.109, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 84.109, \"end\": 84.429, \"score\": 0.771}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"怠\", \"start\": 84.429, \"end\": 84.669, \"score\": 0.719}, {\"word\": \"惰\", \"start\": 84.669, \"end\": 84.869, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 84.869, \"end\": 84.889, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 84.889, \"end\": 85.049, \"score\": 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\"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 95.277, \"end\": 95.958, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 95.958, \"end\": 96.098, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 96.098, \"end\": 96.238, \"score\": 0.66}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 96.238, \"end\": 96.718, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 96.718, \"end\": 96.879, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 96.879, \"end\": 97.559, \"score\": 0.787}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 97.559, \"end\": 97.659, \"score\": 0.787}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 97.659, \"end\": 97.759, \"score\": 0.655}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 97.759, \"end\": 97.839, \"score\": 0.489}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 97.839, \"end\": 97.939, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 97.939, \"end\": 98.16, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"求\", \"start\": 98.16, \"end\": 98.18, \"score\": 0.791}]}, {\"start\": 99.085, \"end\": 115.672, \"text\": \"如果說數字不清楚組計處如果沒有辦法告訴你的話我還是強調就是組計是專算然後呢如果說不是行政院要求的話我也不能理解為什麼這麼久以來還沒有辦法釐清如果三讀通過之後我數字不清楚可以理解已經到這麼久了還沒有把數字搞清楚我個人覺得還是一句話不送案就是怠惰部長\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 99.085, \"end\": 99.185, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 99.185, \"end\": 99.765, \"score\": 0.694}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 99.765, \"end\": 99.905, \"score\": 0.554}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 99.905, \"end\": 100.045, \"score\": 0.637}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 100.045, \"end\": 100.266, \"score\": 0.602}, {\"word\": \"楚\", \"start\": 100.266, \"end\": 101.026, \"score\": 0.68}, {\"word\": \"組\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 101.026, \"end\": 101.146, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 101.146, \"end\": 101.246, \"score\": 0.402}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 101.246, \"end\": 101.366, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"有\", 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\"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"个\", \"start\": 849.391, \"end\": 849.511, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"讨\", \"start\": 849.511, \"end\": 849.651, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"论\", \"start\": 849.651, \"end\": 849.851, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"谢\", \"start\": 849.851, \"end\": 849.871, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"谢\", \"start\": 849.871, \"end\": 849.891, \"score\": 0.001}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,095 --> 00:00:31,845\n好我们谢谢赵伟是不是首先请部长请部长备质询谢谢部长早在我们又进入今天的质询之前我还是要来关切一下我们有关于解冻案上次问了之后好像部长没有把细节掌握清楚那现在部分我还是非常的明确来问一下高教司的这个解冻案写好了吗还有我们的纪职司呢\n\n2\n00:00:37,486 --> 00:00:57,386\n目前這次只有一案書面那國教署呢國教署也是有一個書面報告而且是兩千萬運匯凍結是零那我們的學務司呢學務司書面大概是兩案三百七十二萬請問各司各位的書面報告到底目前是\n\n3\n00:00:58,207 --> 00:01:13,580\n我們基本上這個解凍案這個都已經這個初步都已經完成但是因為上一次大驗還有一個636億這一個統三的所以呢讓我們在內部裡面不知道\n\n4\n00:01:14,561 --> 00:01:38,180\n不知道就問主計處如果主計處還沒有辦法告訴你你們這邊都是寫預估就是主計處的失責我只是強調不送案才是一個怠惰如果都寫好我再問一下部長你有被要求不准送出解凍案嗎有被行政單位要求不准目前為止不准送出解凍案嗎目前因為這個還是剛才跟委員報告的有沒有被要求\n\n5\n00:01:39,085 --> 00:01:55,672\n如果說數字不清楚組計處如果沒有辦法告訴你的話我還是強調就是組計是專算然後呢如果說不是行政院要求的話我也不能理解為什麼這麼久以來還沒有辦法釐清如果三讀通過之後我數字不清楚可以理解已經到這麼久了還沒有把數字搞清楚我個人覺得還是一句話不送案就是怠惰部長\n\n6\n00:02:02,054 --> 00:02:29,387\n我看到民进党委员说我们这个删减预算特别是冻结预算是打人又要救人我觉得这个比率是非常的不当的很多时候就是我们认为在很多的执行绩效上面有问题所以我们还透过这个冻结不是删减是冻结来希望大家能够把行政单位能够把神经绷紧点这是我们天经地义的却被这样子来做处理包括像这个态度现在已经四月了已经四月了\n\n7\n00:02:29,687 --> 00:02:47,087\n还在纠结过去在统山那个部分到底如何那就问清楚嘛都是靠在这个地方部长我要提醒你知道在2015年的时候吴斯华部长你应该认识这个人对不对他的好朋友对不对他当初被冻结的预算多少你知道吗\n\n8\n00:02:52,519 --> 00:03:12,479\n136億136億他有呼天搶地的像你們這樣到處下鄉是告訴我們連會考層級都沒有辦法連會考都沒有辦法辦他有做這樣的事情嗎他被凍了10個月被民進黨凍了10個月教育部的很多的地方還是繼續在執行我只是告訴你以任何部會他有一些政治的考量我可以\n\n9\n00:03:13,340 --> 00:03:37,514\n可以理解但是教育部絕對不行因為這是關係到我們全民的教育應該是比任何部會更加中立所以部長還是一句話不清楚的問題把他的一定清楚你也該問各委員然後呢寫好的包括後面的司長大家都需要用錢已經寫好的就趕快送上來我們招委一定可以馬上排排案幫你做這樣的處理有至愛難行的部分請你也勇敢提出來可以嗎部長謝謝謝謝委員提醒\n\n10\n00:03:39,935 --> 00:04:00,354\n好接下来呢我就觉得很非常纳闷既然都没有钱但是呢你看很多时候搞证明却要花很多的钱目前来说很多的名字只要是补助就可以补助三十万很多的建筑物就可以补助三十万而且这笔钱还不是放在教育部还是放在国发会\n\n11\n00:04:01,015 --> 00:04:21,887\n然後我就在想與其編了750萬元去去威名去改名我們還不如給學生出國比賽給親韓子弟繳學費獎金部長你不覺得這樣會比較好嗎一個建築物改名你只要改名就可以獲得30萬有這種事嗎那我們未來的中正大學中正國中中正國小是不是也要求他們要改名是不是也要這樣子前面一張\n\n12\n00:04:27,955 --> 00:04:47,506\n也需要嗎中正大學改名是不是也可以獲得補助30萬這主要設施用來做轉型正義它並不是用來改名詞的轉型正義好中正有問題是吧我想我們鼓勵大學在許多的人權教育轉型正義上的一些教育上所以說你覺得中正就觸犯了轉型正義嗎那我給大家看一下那部長你可能要回去看一下你們的教育部的國語詞典裡面就有中正兩個字什麼叫中正\n\n13\n00:04:56,531 --> 00:05:22,361\n文字跟名字無罪中正呢告訴你不偏不倚這是你們上面所條列出來不偏不倚禮記好不好正職管子其君子上中正而謝於然後呢第三個還有包括你他是叫存正第四個他是官職的名稱請問中正關你什麼事什麼跟轉型正義有關啊跟委員報告我們這一次的一個補助真的沒有跟這些改名詞有關聯性\n\n14\n00:05:23,982 --> 00:05:34,267\n那就把它澄清清楚啊否則每個新聞都告訴你為了改革中正你要花我就可以得到30萬如果因為這樣造成社會大眾誤解媒體上的報導有誤我想我們來我們來這個跟進部長還是一句話教育部是完全是完全應該擺脫所有的政治包袱之外我這次才是一個教育部應該正本其運的一件事情接下來我可能要請請教部長真正的一個比較大家都比較困擾的一個問題就是我們我關於我們的雙語國家的一個政策啊\n\n15\n00:05:53,776 --> 00:06:13,317\n這雙語我就覺得能夠讓學生能夠在學校裡面得到這個雙語我覺得沒有問題但是問題是為了這個一個雙語這樣的一個政策你知道嗎像全英語授課就是我們說的一個掛了一個EMI你就可以獲得比較多的一個補助但是呢我們現在目前的雙語政策到底有沒有辦法讓\n\n16\n00:06:14,378 --> 00:06:42,060\n我们台湾的孩子英文程度因此提高我们变得更加国际化所以呢我想请问部长真的是这个教育政策的专业是不是过了EMI甚至有很多的学校为了要推行这个拿到教育步骤的补助很多的中文系包括某大学里面的社会系他完全排挤了所谓的本土的博士完全是只要你能够讲英文才有办法进入他们领选的一个标准部长你觉得这样合理吗\n\n17\n00:06:43,588 --> 00:07:00,247\n我們在中小學第一個我們現在叫做雙語教育那第二個就有關於中小學老師的聘用我們大概幾個方向我進來以後大概調整英文課本來國中高中的英語課他老師就是專門的\n\n18\n00:07:01,969 --> 00:07:20,074\n外語的一個主修所以英文課先開始用全英文來授課其他中小學國中小我們希望從日常生活裡邊他能夠自我介紹你覺得全英文的授課裡面老師來用全英文教學到底有沒有辦法把它普及化我覺得這是一個目標這是一個目標但是部長我現在告訴你\n\n19\n00:07:23,915 --> 00:07:40,548\n以全国目前来说EMA推动的能量来预估目前国内一般大学的老师可以用全英文授课的大概占全体专业老师的大概是两成那以台大这个我们最顶尖的学校来说完全是用英文来的大概是所有老师里面的二成三\n\n20\n00:07:40,868 --> 00:08:08,247\n大概就只有是这个样子所以说呢很多的时候就是因为教育部卡在一个补助的问题全校的大专院校完全疯狂在这个地方那我想请问你所谓的全英文授课还有双语教育这是两码的不一样的部分很多老师只是用英文的教材还可以跟你报说他具有这个英文授课然后呢你们也没有做更进一步的检测啊然后钱只要是这样子只要框上这个名字你们就给经费嘛有没有这样的事情\n\n21\n00:08:09,428 --> 00:08:32,158\n跟我們報告我們當然鼓勵學校聘老師就是專業優先然後他配合學校的重點特色的發展他有一些人才的思思能量的一些期待中文系的老師是不是需要一定要具備有具有英文可以授課的人才可以來教中文我們來了解基本上他不會有這樣的一件事情\n\n22\n00:08:32,758 --> 00:08:49,804\n我告訴你我來自學校我們現在目前來說連體育老師都要講英文連中文老師都要講英文這是完全存在這個社會上面的事實存在我所看過的所需要的事實應該會有少數的學校他給自己定位一個國際頂尖的一個大學的定位但是其他的學校我相信應該不會是這樣\n\n23\n00:08:51,284 --> 00:09:07,048\n其他的學校都是這樣子部長你需要了解很多私立大學裡面中文系的老師要是聘請的時候都要求他會講英文這個東西對很多學校造成困擾包括行政人員他都是以英文系為優先這都是因為礦藏教育部的補助希望能夠強力的推動我們就先來看看嘛你剛說七成的中小學要全英文授課部長你相信嗎你們的報告裡面\n\n24\n00:09:16,710 --> 00:09:32,822\n現在七成是指這個英文課英文本科的老師那我們期待他未來能夠好那我只問嘛七成採全英文授課你這樣一句話這樣出來你相信這句話的陳述嗎七成是以班級為單位還是學生的七成用英文來授課部長你們大內宣裡面都這樣講新聞報導也這樣講七成採全英文授課所以我才問你的七成代表是什麼你的七成定義在哪裡\n\n25\n00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:56,168\n有學生所有學生的期程都可以接受全英文授課嗎全台灣到這種程度了嗎沒有那是說老師有這些學校老師跟學員我們從日常生活有一些有一些\n\n26\n00:09:57,270 --> 00:10:19,251\n就比較會正式課程的除了英文以外所以你說七成採全英文授課到底是怎麼一回事你到11月底你看嘛你們上面所寫的嘛我們全部的學校裡邊有2670所高中以下採英文課採全英文授課比率達七成英文課講全部講英文有七成是這樣子你相信嗎\n\n27\n00:10:20,632 --> 00:10:25,753\n就全國的高中以下學校3800所除以2679所這2679所它是有負責的英文老師17000名中的英文老師還有班級有實施全英教學那這個全英教學的定義就是按照學生的這個程度用最大的輸出跟學生最大的輸出\n\n28\n00:10:42,817 --> 00:10:49,903\n來做定義的你們不要拿這個部分你要去問全國家長說他的小孩誰犧牲來這個就是縣市政府給我們提報的數據那縣市政府自己填啊你相信嗎自己填自己填還有很多縣市政府你要是看到天下雜誌說很多的縣市政府他告訴你他們國中小以下全部公立學校百分之百實施全英文教學你相信嗎你知道他們自己填的\n\n29\n00:11:04,794 --> 00:11:17,821\n這個就不會相信,所以我們會實際看輔導團去查,因為查了之後是2679項,謝謝好,那如果是這樣子的話,那你覺得部長,照你們這樣思想,你覺得全部的英文程度有沒有因此顯著提升?你覺得有沒有?我想學測的一個成績當中來,告訴你啦,學測啊,你這樣講,你放得太快了,我應該讓部長講你才來講你覺得有沒有顯著提升?\n\n30\n00:11:28,939 --> 00:11:33,480\n我覺得整體來講他應該會有一些進步的有嗎來吧看一下事實證明來107年跟114年5級分以下23到100到114年卻變成34.17到11級分以上30%然後呢到114年到了43.9所以說呢\n\n31\n00:11:50,666 --> 00:12:13,472\n你成績很多老師說他的英文的粗題越來越簡單但是的學生你看看目前來說這次平均值只有底標連續兩年探底只有三級分今年後標更是首次降到四級分所以呢這就是一個更不要說我們的城鄉差距我覺得給予大家這個讓孩子可以有英文的教學因為他是個國際語言完全是非常的贊同但是呢用這個數據因為你的數據太過於美化我們完全忽略了\n\n32\n00:12:20,034 --> 00:12:43,066\n後面實質的一個真正的實情的一個做法這是我要不斷地特別提到的所以不能一個雙語正式掛在那個地方每個人就封到這個地方但是完全沒有辦法想像我們這個量能有沒有辦法跟上我們所標示的這個部分這才是我今天所要特別提出來的而且我相信葉米成教授在這個地方你應該知道所有英文最重要的部分是來自什麼叫做動機\n\n33\n00:12:44,389 --> 00:13:08,174\n就是动机很多孩子特别偏远的孩子你给他有足够的动机让他觉得透过这样的语言的学习他可以获得更多的一个丰富的经验里面而不是透过这个补助不是透过这样的方法特别不是透过那个美化所以我看到你们所凸显出来的全国有七成的学校英文课都用全英文教学你这样说给全部家长听我真的觉得是谁相信我觉得这个完全是没有办法\n\n34\n00:13:09,594 --> 00:13:27,381\n剛剛委員提到說學生英語的進步從103年的會考是比較帶加強的部分達到是33.73比較高三分之一但是113的時候是29所以顯著的下降這十年來經過一些現場老師的努力顯著下降了百分之四的帶加強這詳細的數字再跟委員補充\n\n35\n00:13:28,561 --> 00:13:46,106\n再给我报告然后呢最重要我用的这样子的一个分数然后你不要忘记很多老师也反映在大学联考的这个所谓的英文的试题其实是有越来越简化的趋势如果越来越简化你还得到这样的一个部分再加上成像的部分我觉得这个数字可能比你所想象的不是\n\n36\n00:13:46,866 --> 00:14:09,891\n如部长你所期待的会是如何所以这是整个系统的问题我还是强调如何让学生能够在这动机的部分能够做最大的提升我觉得远比你透过这个所谓EMI我就给你在这个所谓的补助上面得到多少多少这样的一个表面其实更具有实质的意义好不好这一次的提醒部长我还有很多的问题但是因为时间的关系我们就留待下一次再来做一个讨论谢谢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6095\t31845\t好我们谢谢赵伟是不是首先请部长请部长备质询谢谢部长早在我们又进入今天的质询之前我还是要来关切一下我们有关于解冻案上次问了之后好像部长没有把细节掌握清楚那现在部分我还是非常的明确来问一下高教司的这个解冻案写好了吗还有我们的纪职司呢\n37486\t57386\t目前這次只有一案書面那國教署呢國教署也是有一個書面報告而且是兩千萬運匯凍結是零那我們的學務司呢學務司書面大概是兩案三百七十二萬請問各司各位的書面報告到底目前是\n58207\t73580\t我們基本上這個解凍案這個都已經這個初步都已經完成但是因為上一次大驗還有一個636億這一個統三的所以呢讓我們在內部裡面不知道\n74561\t98180\t不知道就問主計處 如果主計處還沒有辦法告訴你你們這邊都是寫預估 就是主計處的失責我只是強調 不送案才是一個怠惰如果都寫好 我再問一下部長你有被要求不准送出解凍案嗎有被行政單位要求不准 目前為止不准送出解凍案嗎目前因為這個還是剛才跟委員報告的有沒有被要求\n99085\t115672\t如果說數字不清楚組計處如果沒有辦法告訴你的話我還是強調就是組計是專算然後呢如果說不是行政院要求的話我也不能理解為什麼這麼久以來還沒有辦法釐清如果三讀通過之後我數字不清楚可以理解已經到這麼久了還沒有把數字搞清楚我個人覺得還是一句話不送案就是怠惰部長\n122054\t149387\t我看到民进党委员说我们这个删减预算特别是冻结预算是打人又要救人我觉得这个比率是非常的不当的很多时候就是我们认为在很多的执行绩效上面有问题所以我们还透过这个冻结不是删减是冻结来希望大家能够把行政单位能够把神经绷紧点这是我们天经地义的却被这样子来做处理包括像这个态度现在已经四月了已经四月了\n149687\t167087\t还在纠结过去在统山那个部分到底如何那就问清楚嘛都是靠在这个地方部长我要提醒你知道在2015年的时候吴斯华部长你应该认识这个人对不对他的好朋友对不对他当初被冻结的预算多少你知道吗\n172519\t192479\t136億 136億 他有呼天搶地的像你們這樣到處下鄉是告訴我們連會考層級都沒有辦法 連會考都沒有辦法辦他有做這樣的事情嗎 他被凍了10個月被民進黨凍了10個月 教育部的很多的地方還是繼續在執行我只是告訴你 以任何部會 他有一些政治的考量 我可以\n193340\t217514\t可以理解但是教育部絕對不行因為這是關係到我們全民的教育應該是比任何部會更加中立所以部長還是一句話不清楚的問題把他的一定清楚你也該問各委員然後呢寫好的包括後面的司長大家都需要用錢已經寫好的就趕快送上來我們招委一定可以馬上排排案幫你做這樣的處理有至愛難行的部分請你也勇敢提出來可以嗎 部長謝謝 謝謝委員提醒\n219935\t240354\t好接下来呢我就觉得很非常纳闷既然都没有钱但是呢你看很多时候搞证明却要花很多的钱目前来说很多的名字只要是补助就可以补助三十万很多的建筑物就可以补助三十万而且这笔钱还不是放在教育部还是放在国发会\n241015\t261887\t然後我就在想 與其編了750萬元去去威名去改名我們還不如給學生出國比賽給親韓子弟繳學費 獎金部長你不覺得這樣會比較好嗎一個建築物改名你只要改名就可以獲得30萬有這種事嗎那我們未來的中正大學 中正國中 中正國小是不是也要求他們要改名是不是也要這樣子前面一張\n267955\t287506\t也需要嗎 中正大學改名是不是也可以獲得補助30萬這主要設施用來做轉型正義它並不是用來改名詞的轉型正義好 中正有問題是吧我想我們鼓勵大學在許多的人權教育轉型正義上的一些教育上所以說你覺得中正就觸犯了轉型正義嗎那我給大家看一下那部長你可能要回去看一下你們的教育部的國語詞典裡面就有中正兩個字什麼叫中正\n296531\t322361\t文字跟名字無罪 中正呢 告訴你不偏不倚這是你們上面所條列出來 不偏不倚 禮記 好不好正職管子 其君子上中正而謝於然後呢 第三個 還有包括你 他是叫存正第四個 他是官職的名稱 請問中正關你什麼事什麼跟轉型正義有關啊跟委員報告 我們這一次的一個補助真的沒有跟這些改名詞有關聯性\n323982\t334267\t那就把它澄清清楚啊否則每個新聞都告訴你為了改革中正你要花我就可以得到30萬如果因為這樣造成社會大眾誤解媒體上的報導有誤我想我們來我們來這個跟進部長還是一句話教育部是完全是完全應該擺脫所有的政治包袱之外我這次才是一個教育部應該正本其運的一件事情接下來我可能要請請教部長真正的一個比較大家都比較困擾的一個問題就是我們我關於我們的雙語國家的一個政策啊\n353776\t373317\t這雙語我就覺得能夠讓學生能夠在學校裡面得到這個雙語我覺得沒有問題但是問題是為了這個一個雙語這樣的一個政策你知道嗎像全英語授課就是我們說的一個掛了一個EMI你就可以獲得比較多的一個補助但是呢我們現在目前的雙語政策到底有沒有辦法讓\n374378\t402060\t我们台湾的孩子英文程度因此提高我们变得更加国际化所以呢我想请问部长真的是这个教育政策的专业是不是过了EMI甚至有很多的学校为了要推行这个拿到教育步骤的补助很多的中文系包括某大学里面的社会系他完全排挤了所谓的本土的博士完全是只要你能够讲英文才有办法进入他们领选的一个标准部长你觉得这样合理吗\n403588\t420247\t我們在中小學第一個我們現在叫做雙語教育那第二個就有關於中小學老師的聘用我們大概幾個方向我進來以後大概調整英文課本來國中高中的英語課他老師就是專門的\n421969\t440074\t外語的一個主修所以英文課先開始用全英文來授課其他中小學 國中小我們希望從日常生活裡邊他能夠自我介紹你覺得全英文的授課裡面老師來用全英文教學到底有沒有辦法把它普及化我覺得這是一個目標這是一個目標但是部長我現在告訴你\n443915\t460548\t以全国目前来说EMA推动的能量来预估目前国内一般大学的老师可以用全英文授课的大概占全体专业老师的大概是两成那以台大这个我们最顶尖的学校来说完全是用英文来的大概是所有老师里面的二成三\n460868\t488247\t大概就只有是这个样子所以说呢很多的时候就是因为教育部卡在一个补助的问题全校的大专院校完全疯狂在这个地方那我想请问你所谓的全英文授课还有双语教育这是两码的不一样的部分很多老师只是用英文的教材还可以跟你报说他具有这个英文授课然后呢你们也没有做更进一步的检测啊然后钱只要是这样子只要框上这个名字你们就给经费嘛有没有这样的事情\n489428\t512158\t跟我們報告我們當然鼓勵學校聘老師就是專業優先然後他配合學校的重點特色的發展他有一些人才的思思能量的一些期待中文系的老師是不是需要一定要具備有具有英文可以授課的人才可以來教中文我們來了解基本上他不會有這樣的一件事情\n512758\t529804\t我告訴你我來自學校我們現在目前來說連體育老師都要講英文連中文老師都要講英文這是完全存在這個社會上面的事實存在我所看過的所需要的事實應該會有少數的學校他給自己定位一個國際頂尖的一個大學的定位但是其他的學校我相信應該不會是這樣\n531284\t547048\t其他的學校都是這樣子部長你需要了解很多私立大學裡面中文系的老師要是聘請的時候都要求他會講英文這個東西對很多學校造成困擾包括行政人員他都是以英文系為優先這都是因為礦藏教育部的補助希望能夠強力的推動我們就先來看看嘛你剛說七成的中小學要全英文授課部長你相信嗎你們的報告裡面\n556710\t572822\t現在七成是指這個英文課英文本科的老師那我們期待他未來能夠好那我只問嘛七成採全英文授課你這樣一句話這樣出來你相信這句話的陳述嗎七成是以班級為單位還是學生的七成用英文來授課部長你們大內宣裡面都這樣講新聞報導也這樣講七成採全英文授課所以我才問你的七成代表是什麼你的七成定義在哪裡\n584400\t596168\t有學生所有學生的期程都可以接受全英文授課嗎全台灣到這種程度了嗎沒有 那是說老師有這些學校老師跟學員我們從日常生活有一些有一些\n597270\t619251\t就比較會正式課程的除了英文以外所以你說七成採全英文授課到底是怎麼一回事你到11月底你看嘛你們上面所寫的嘛我們全部的學校裡邊有2670所高中以下採英文課採全英文授課比率達七成英文課講全部講英文有七成是這樣子你相信嗎\n620632\t625753\t就全國的高中以下學校3800所除以2679所這2679所它是有負責的英文老師17000名中的英文老師還有班級有實施全英教學那這個全英教學的定義就是按照學生的這個程度用最大的輸出跟學生最大的輸出\n642817\t649903\t來做定義的你們不要拿這個部分你要去問全國家長說他的小孩誰犧牲來這個就是縣市政府給我們提報的數據那縣市政府自己填啊你相信嗎自己填自己填還有很多縣市政府你要是看到天下雜誌說很多的縣市政府他告訴你他們國中小以下全部公立學校百分之百實施全英文教學你相信嗎你知道他們自己填的\n664794\t677821\t這個就不會相信,所以我們會實際看輔導團去查,因為查了之後是2679項,謝謝好,那如果是這樣子的話,那你覺得部長,照你們這樣思想,你覺得全部的英文程度有沒有因此顯著提升?你覺得有沒有?我想學測的一個成績當中來,告訴你啦,學測啊,你這樣講,你放得太快了,我應該讓部長講你才來講你覺得有沒有顯著提升?\n688939\t693480\t我覺得整體來講他應該會有一些進步的有嗎來吧看一下事實證明來107年跟114年5級分以下23到100到114年卻變成34.17到11級分以上30%然後呢到114年到了43.9所以說呢\n710666\t733472\t你成績很多老師說他的英文的粗題越來越簡單但是的學生你看看目前來說這次平均值只有底標連續兩年探底只有三級分今年後標更是首次降到四級分所以呢這就是一個更不要說我們的城鄉差距我覺得給予大家這個讓孩子可以有英文的教學因為他是個國際語言完全是非常的贊同但是呢用這個數據因為你的數據太過於美化我們完全忽略了\n740034\t763066\t後面實質的一個真正的實情的一個做法這是我要不斷地特別提到的所以不能一個雙語正式掛在那個地方每個人就封到這個地方但是完全沒有辦法想像我們這個量能有沒有辦法跟上我們所標示的這個部分這才是我今天所要特別提出來的而且我相信葉米成教授在這個地方你應該知道所有英文最重要的部分是來自什麼叫做動機\n764389\t788174\t就是动机很多孩子特别偏远的孩子你给他有足够的动机让他觉得透过这样的语言的学习他可以获得更多的一个丰富的经验里面而不是透过这个补助不是透过这样的方法特别不是透过那个美化所以我看到你们所凸显出来的全国有七成的学校英文课都用全英文教学你这样说给全部家长听我真的觉得是谁相信我觉得这个完全是没有办法\n789594\t807381\t剛剛委員提到說學生英語的進步從103年的會考是比較帶加強的部分達到是33.73 比較高三分之一但是113的時候是29所以顯著的下降這十年來經過一些現場老師的努力顯著下降了百分之四的帶加強這詳細的數字再跟委員補充\n808561\t826106\t再给我报告然后呢最重要我用的这样子的一个分数然后你不要忘记很多老师也反映在大学联考的这个所谓的英文的试题其实是有越来越简化的趋势如果越来越简化你还得到这样的一个部分再加上成像的部分我觉得这个数字可能比你所想象的不是\n826866\t849891\t如部长你所期待的会是如何所以这是整个系统的问题我还是强调如何让学生能够在这动机的部分能够做最大的提升我觉得远比你透过这个所谓EMI我就给你在这个所谓的补助上面得到多少多少这样的一个表面其实更具有实质的意义好不好这一次的提醒部长我还有很多的问题但是因为时间的关系我们就留待下一次再来做一个讨论谢谢\n","txt":"好我们谢谢赵伟是不是首先请部长请部长备质询谢谢部长早在我们又进入今天的质询之前我还是要来关切一下我们有关于解冻案上次问了之后好像部长没有把细节掌握清楚那现在部分我还是非常的明确来问一下高教司的这个解冻案写好了吗还有我们的纪职司呢\n目前這次只有一案書面那國教署呢國教署也是有一個書面報告而且是兩千萬運匯凍結是零那我們的學務司呢學務司書面大概是兩案三百七十二萬請問各司各位的書面報告到底目前是\n我們基本上這個解凍案這個都已經這個初步都已經完成但是因為上一次大驗還有一個636億這一個統三的所以呢讓我們在內部裡面不知道\n不知道就問主計處 如果主計處還沒有辦法告訴你你們這邊都是寫預估 就是主計處的失責我只是強調 不送案才是一個怠惰如果都寫好 我再問一下部長你有被要求不准送出解凍案嗎有被行政單位要求不准 目前為止不准送出解凍案嗎目前因為這個還是剛才跟委員報告的有沒有被要求\n如果說數字不清楚組計處如果沒有辦法告訴你的話我還是強調就是組計是專算然後呢如果說不是行政院要求的話我也不能理解為什麼這麼久以來還沒有辦法釐清如果三讀通過之後我數字不清楚可以理解已經到這麼久了還沒有把數字搞清楚我個人覺得還是一句話不送案就是怠惰部長\n我看到民进党委员说我们这个删减预算特别是冻结预算是打人又要救人我觉得这个比率是非常的不当的很多时候就是我们认为在很多的执行绩效上面有问题所以我们还透过这个冻结不是删减是冻结来希望大家能够把行政单位能够把神经绷紧点这是我们天经地义的却被这样子来做处理包括像这个态度现在已经四月了已经四月了\n还在纠结过去在统山那个部分到底如何那就问清楚嘛都是靠在这个地方部长我要提醒你知道在2015年的时候吴斯华部长你应该认识这个人对不对他的好朋友对不对他当初被冻结的预算多少你知道吗\n136億 136億 他有呼天搶地的像你們這樣到處下鄉是告訴我們連會考層級都沒有辦法 連會考都沒有辦法辦他有做這樣的事情嗎 他被凍了10個月被民進黨凍了10個月 教育部的很多的地方還是繼續在執行我只是告訴你 以任何部會 他有一些政治的考量 我可以\n可以理解但是教育部絕對不行因為這是關係到我們全民的教育應該是比任何部會更加中立所以部長還是一句話不清楚的問題把他的一定清楚你也該問各委員然後呢寫好的包括後面的司長大家都需要用錢已經寫好的就趕快送上來我們招委一定可以馬上排排案幫你做這樣的處理有至愛難行的部分請你也勇敢提出來可以嗎 部長謝謝 謝謝委員提醒\n好接下来呢我就觉得很非常纳闷既然都没有钱但是呢你看很多时候搞证明却要花很多的钱目前来说很多的名字只要是补助就可以补助三十万很多的建筑物就可以补助三十万而且这笔钱还不是放在教育部还是放在国发会\n然後我就在想 與其編了750萬元去去威名去改名我們還不如給學生出國比賽給親韓子弟繳學費 獎金部長你不覺得這樣會比較好嗎一個建築物改名你只要改名就可以獲得30萬有這種事嗎那我們未來的中正大學 中正國中 中正國小是不是也要求他們要改名是不是也要這樣子前面一張\n也需要嗎 中正大學改名是不是也可以獲得補助30萬這主要設施用來做轉型正義它並不是用來改名詞的轉型正義好 中正有問題是吧我想我們鼓勵大學在許多的人權教育轉型正義上的一些教育上所以說你覺得中正就觸犯了轉型正義嗎那我給大家看一下那部長你可能要回去看一下你們的教育部的國語詞典裡面就有中正兩個字什麼叫中正\n文字跟名字無罪 中正呢 告訴你不偏不倚這是你們上面所條列出來 不偏不倚 禮記 好不好正職管子 其君子上中正而謝於然後呢 第三個 還有包括你 他是叫存正第四個 他是官職的名稱 請問中正關你什麼事什麼跟轉型正義有關啊跟委員報告 我們這一次的一個補助真的沒有跟這些改名詞有關聯性\n那就把它澄清清楚啊否則每個新聞都告訴你為了改革中正你要花我就可以得到30萬如果因為這樣造成社會大眾誤解媒體上的報導有誤我想我們來我們來這個跟進部長還是一句話教育部是完全是完全應該擺脫所有的政治包袱之外我這次才是一個教育部應該正本其運的一件事情接下來我可能要請請教部長真正的一個比較大家都比較困擾的一個問題就是我們我關於我們的雙語國家的一個政策啊\n這雙語我就覺得能夠讓學生能夠在學校裡面得到這個雙語我覺得沒有問題但是問題是為了這個一個雙語這樣的一個政策你知道嗎像全英語授課就是我們說的一個掛了一個EMI你就可以獲得比較多的一個補助但是呢我們現在目前的雙語政策到底有沒有辦法讓\n我们台湾的孩子英文程度因此提高我们变得更加国际化所以呢我想请问部长真的是这个教育政策的专业是不是过了EMI甚至有很多的学校为了要推行这个拿到教育步骤的补助很多的中文系包括某大学里面的社会系他完全排挤了所谓的本土的博士完全是只要你能够讲英文才有办法进入他们领选的一个标准部长你觉得这样合理吗\n我們在中小學第一個我們現在叫做雙語教育那第二個就有關於中小學老師的聘用我們大概幾個方向我進來以後大概調整英文課本來國中高中的英語課他老師就是專門的\n外語的一個主修所以英文課先開始用全英文來授課其他中小學 國中小我們希望從日常生活裡邊他能夠自我介紹你覺得全英文的授課裡面老師來用全英文教學到底有沒有辦法把它普及化我覺得這是一個目標這是一個目標但是部長我現在告訴你\n以全国目前来说EMA推动的能量来预估目前国内一般大学的老师可以用全英文授课的大概占全体专业老师的大概是两成那以台大这个我们最顶尖的学校来说完全是用英文来的大概是所有老师里面的二成三\n大概就只有是这个样子所以说呢很多的时候就是因为教育部卡在一个补助的问题全校的大专院校完全疯狂在这个地方那我想请问你所谓的全英文授课还有双语教育这是两码的不一样的部分很多老师只是用英文的教材还可以跟你报说他具有这个英文授课然后呢你们也没有做更进一步的检测啊然后钱只要是这样子只要框上这个名字你们就给经费嘛有没有这样的事情\n跟我們報告我們當然鼓勵學校聘老師就是專業優先然後他配合學校的重點特色的發展他有一些人才的思思能量的一些期待中文系的老師是不是需要一定要具備有具有英文可以授課的人才可以來教中文我們來了解基本上他不會有這樣的一件事情\n我告訴你我來自學校我們現在目前來說連體育老師都要講英文連中文老師都要講英文這是完全存在這個社會上面的事實存在我所看過的所需要的事實應該會有少數的學校他給自己定位一個國際頂尖的一個大學的定位但是其他的學校我相信應該不會是這樣\n其他的學校都是這樣子部長你需要了解很多私立大學裡面中文系的老師要是聘請的時候都要求他會講英文這個東西對很多學校造成困擾包括行政人員他都是以英文系為優先這都是因為礦藏教育部的補助希望能夠強力的推動我們就先來看看嘛你剛說七成的中小學要全英文授課部長你相信嗎你們的報告裡面\n現在七成是指這個英文課英文本科的老師那我們期待他未來能夠好那我只問嘛七成採全英文授課你這樣一句話這樣出來你相信這句話的陳述嗎七成是以班級為單位還是學生的七成用英文來授課部長你們大內宣裡面都這樣講新聞報導也這樣講七成採全英文授課所以我才問你的七成代表是什麼你的七成定義在哪裡\n有學生所有學生的期程都可以接受全英文授課嗎全台灣到這種程度了嗎沒有 那是說老師有這些學校老師跟學員我們從日常生活有一些有一些\n就比較會正式課程的除了英文以外所以你說七成採全英文授課到底是怎麼一回事你到11月底你看嘛你們上面所寫的嘛我們全部的學校裡邊有2670所高中以下採英文課採全英文授課比率達七成英文課講全部講英文有七成是這樣子你相信嗎\n就全國的高中以下學校3800所除以2679所這2679所它是有負責的英文老師17000名中的英文老師還有班級有實施全英教學那這個全英教學的定義就是按照學生的這個程度用最大的輸出跟學生最大的輸出\n來做定義的你們不要拿這個部分你要去問全國家長說他的小孩誰犧牲來這個就是縣市政府給我們提報的數據那縣市政府自己填啊你相信嗎自己填自己填還有很多縣市政府你要是看到天下雜誌說很多的縣市政府他告訴你他們國中小以下全部公立學校百分之百實施全英文教學你相信嗎你知道他們自己填的\n這個就不會相信,所以我們會實際看輔導團去查,因為查了之後是2679項,謝謝好,那如果是這樣子的話,那你覺得部長,照你們這樣思想,你覺得全部的英文程度有沒有因此顯著提升?你覺得有沒有?我想學測的一個成績當中來,告訴你啦,學測啊,你這樣講,你放得太快了,我應該讓部長講你才來講你覺得有沒有顯著提升?\n我覺得整體來講他應該會有一些進步的有嗎來吧看一下事實證明來107年跟114年5級分以下23到100到114年卻變成34.17到11級分以上30%然後呢到114年到了43.9所以說呢\n你成績很多老師說他的英文的粗題越來越簡單但是的學生你看看目前來說這次平均值只有底標連續兩年探底只有三級分今年後標更是首次降到四級分所以呢這就是一個更不要說我們的城鄉差距我覺得給予大家這個讓孩子可以有英文的教學因為他是個國際語言完全是非常的贊同但是呢用這個數據因為你的數據太過於美化我們完全忽略了\n後面實質的一個真正的實情的一個做法這是我要不斷地特別提到的所以不能一個雙語正式掛在那個地方每個人就封到這個地方但是完全沒有辦法想像我們這個量能有沒有辦法跟上我們所標示的這個部分這才是我今天所要特別提出來的而且我相信葉米成教授在這個地方你應該知道所有英文最重要的部分是來自什麼叫做動機\n就是动机很多孩子特别偏远的孩子你给他有足够的动机让他觉得透过这样的语言的学习他可以获得更多的一个丰富的经验里面而不是透过这个补助不是透过这样的方法特别不是透过那个美化所以我看到你们所凸显出来的全国有七成的学校英文课都用全英文教学你这样说给全部家长听我真的觉得是谁相信我觉得这个完全是没有办法\n剛剛委員提到說學生英語的進步從103年的會考是比較帶加強的部分達到是33.73 比較高三分之一但是113的時候是29所以顯著的下降這十年來經過一些現場老師的努力顯著下降了百分之四的帶加強這詳細的數字再跟委員補充\n再给我报告然后呢最重要我用的这样子的一个分数然后你不要忘记很多老师也反映在大学联考的这个所谓的英文的试题其实是有越来越简化的趋势如果越来越简化你还得到这样的一个部分再加上成像的部分我觉得这个数字可能比你所想象的不是\n如部长你所期待的会是如何所以这是整个系统的问题我还是强调如何让学生能够在这动机的部分能够做最大的提升我觉得远比你透过这个所谓EMI我就给你在这个所谓的补助上面得到多少多少这样的一个表面其实更具有实质的意义好不好这一次的提醒部长我还有很多的问题但是因为时间的关系我们就留待下一次再来做一个讨论谢谢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.095 --> 00:31.845\n好我们谢谢赵伟是不是首先请部长请部长备质询谢谢部长早在我们又进入今天的质询之前我还是要来关切一下我们有关于解冻案上次问了之后好像部长没有把细节掌握清楚那现在部分我还是非常的明确来问一下高教司的这个解冻案写好了吗还有我们的纪职司呢\n\n00:37.486 --> 00:57.386\n目前這次只有一案書面那國教署呢國教署也是有一個書面報告而且是兩千萬運匯凍結是零那我們的學務司呢學務司書面大概是兩案三百七十二萬請問各司各位的書面報告到底目前是\n\n00:58.207 --> 01:13.580\n我們基本上這個解凍案這個都已經這個初步都已經完成但是因為上一次大驗還有一個636億這一個統三的所以呢讓我們在內部裡面不知道\n\n01:14.561 --> 01:38.180\n不知道就問主計處如果主計處還沒有辦法告訴你你們這邊都是寫預估就是主計處的失責我只是強調不送案才是一個怠惰如果都寫好我再問一下部長你有被要求不准送出解凍案嗎有被行政單位要求不准目前為止不准送出解凍案嗎目前因為這個還是剛才跟委員報告的有沒有被要求\n\n01:39.085 --> 01:55.672\n如果說數字不清楚組計處如果沒有辦法告訴你的話我還是強調就是組計是專算然後呢如果說不是行政院要求的話我也不能理解為什麼這麼久以來還沒有辦法釐清如果三讀通過之後我數字不清楚可以理解已經到這麼久了還沒有把數字搞清楚我個人覺得還是一句話不送案就是怠惰部長\n\n02:02.054 --> 02:29.387\n我看到民进党委员说我们这个删减预算特别是冻结预算是打人又要救人我觉得这个比率是非常的不当的很多时候就是我们认为在很多的执行绩效上面有问题所以我们还透过这个冻结不是删减是冻结来希望大家能够把行政单位能够把神经绷紧点这是我们天经地义的却被这样子来做处理包括像这个态度现在已经四月了已经四月了\n\n02:29.687 --> 02:47.087\n还在纠结过去在统山那个部分到底如何那就问清楚嘛都是靠在这个地方部长我要提醒你知道在2015年的时候吴斯华部长你应该认识这个人对不对他的好朋友对不对他当初被冻结的预算多少你知道吗\n\n02:52.519 --> 03:12.479\n136億136億他有呼天搶地的像你們這樣到處下鄉是告訴我們連會考層級都沒有辦法連會考都沒有辦法辦他有做這樣的事情嗎他被凍了10個月被民進黨凍了10個月教育部的很多的地方還是繼續在執行我只是告訴你以任何部會他有一些政治的考量我可以\n\n03:13.340 --> 03:37.514\n可以理解但是教育部絕對不行因為這是關係到我們全民的教育應該是比任何部會更加中立所以部長還是一句話不清楚的問題把他的一定清楚你也該問各委員然後呢寫好的包括後面的司長大家都需要用錢已經寫好的就趕快送上來我們招委一定可以馬上排排案幫你做這樣的處理有至愛難行的部分請你也勇敢提出來可以嗎部長謝謝謝謝委員提醒\n\n03:39.935 --> 04:00.354\n好接下来呢我就觉得很非常纳闷既然都没有钱但是呢你看很多时候搞证明却要花很多的钱目前来说很多的名字只要是补助就可以补助三十万很多的建筑物就可以补助三十万而且这笔钱还不是放在教育部还是放在国发会\n\n04:01.015 --> 04:21.887\n然後我就在想與其編了750萬元去去威名去改名我們還不如給學生出國比賽給親韓子弟繳學費獎金部長你不覺得這樣會比較好嗎一個建築物改名你只要改名就可以獲得30萬有這種事嗎那我們未來的中正大學中正國中中正國小是不是也要求他們要改名是不是也要這樣子前面一張\n\n04:27.955 --> 04:47.506\n也需要嗎中正大學改名是不是也可以獲得補助30萬這主要設施用來做轉型正義它並不是用來改名詞的轉型正義好中正有問題是吧我想我們鼓勵大學在許多的人權教育轉型正義上的一些教育上所以說你覺得中正就觸犯了轉型正義嗎那我給大家看一下那部長你可能要回去看一下你們的教育部的國語詞典裡面就有中正兩個字什麼叫中正\n\n04:56.531 --> 05:22.361\n文字跟名字無罪中正呢告訴你不偏不倚這是你們上面所條列出來不偏不倚禮記好不好正職管子其君子上中正而謝於然後呢第三個還有包括你他是叫存正第四個他是官職的名稱請問中正關你什麼事什麼跟轉型正義有關啊跟委員報告我們這一次的一個補助真的沒有跟這些改名詞有關聯性\n\n05:23.982 --> 05:34.267\n那就把它澄清清楚啊否則每個新聞都告訴你為了改革中正你要花我就可以得到30萬如果因為這樣造成社會大眾誤解媒體上的報導有誤我想我們來我們來這個跟進部長還是一句話教育部是完全是完全應該擺脫所有的政治包袱之外我這次才是一個教育部應該正本其運的一件事情接下來我可能要請請教部長真正的一個比較大家都比較困擾的一個問題就是我們我關於我們的雙語國家的一個政策啊\n\n05:53.776 --> 06:13.317\n這雙語我就覺得能夠讓學生能夠在學校裡面得到這個雙語我覺得沒有問題但是問題是為了這個一個雙語這樣的一個政策你知道嗎像全英語授課就是我們說的一個掛了一個EMI你就可以獲得比較多的一個補助但是呢我們現在目前的雙語政策到底有沒有辦法讓\n\n06:14.378 --> 06:42.060\n我们台湾的孩子英文程度因此提高我们变得更加国际化所以呢我想请问部长真的是这个教育政策的专业是不是过了EMI甚至有很多的学校为了要推行这个拿到教育步骤的补助很多的中文系包括某大学里面的社会系他完全排挤了所谓的本土的博士完全是只要你能够讲英文才有办法进入他们领选的一个标准部长你觉得这样合理吗\n\n06:43.588 --> 07:00.247\n我們在中小學第一個我們現在叫做雙語教育那第二個就有關於中小學老師的聘用我們大概幾個方向我進來以後大概調整英文課本來國中高中的英語課他老師就是專門的\n\n07:01.969 --> 07:20.074\n外語的一個主修所以英文課先開始用全英文來授課其他中小學國中小我們希望從日常生活裡邊他能夠自我介紹你覺得全英文的授課裡面老師來用全英文教學到底有沒有辦法把它普及化我覺得這是一個目標這是一個目標但是部長我現在告訴你\n\n07:23.915 --> 07:40.548\n以全国目前来说EMA推动的能量来预估目前国内一般大学的老师可以用全英文授课的大概占全体专业老师的大概是两成那以台大这个我们最顶尖的学校来说完全是用英文来的大概是所有老师里面的二成三\n\n07:40.868 --> 08:08.247\n大概就只有是这个样子所以说呢很多的时候就是因为教育部卡在一个补助的问题全校的大专院校完全疯狂在这个地方那我想请问你所谓的全英文授课还有双语教育这是两码的不一样的部分很多老师只是用英文的教材还可以跟你报说他具有这个英文授课然后呢你们也没有做更进一步的检测啊然后钱只要是这样子只要框上这个名字你们就给经费嘛有没有这样的事情\n\n08:09.428 --> 08:32.158\n跟我們報告我們當然鼓勵學校聘老師就是專業優先然後他配合學校的重點特色的發展他有一些人才的思思能量的一些期待中文系的老師是不是需要一定要具備有具有英文可以授課的人才可以來教中文我們來了解基本上他不會有這樣的一件事情\n\n08:32.758 --> 08:49.804\n我告訴你我來自學校我們現在目前來說連體育老師都要講英文連中文老師都要講英文這是完全存在這個社會上面的事實存在我所看過的所需要的事實應該會有少數的學校他給自己定位一個國際頂尖的一個大學的定位但是其他的學校我相信應該不會是這樣\n\n08:51.284 --> 09:07.048\n其他的學校都是這樣子部長你需要了解很多私立大學裡面中文系的老師要是聘請的時候都要求他會講英文這個東西對很多學校造成困擾包括行政人員他都是以英文系為優先這都是因為礦藏教育部的補助希望能夠強力的推動我們就先來看看嘛你剛說七成的中小學要全英文授課部長你相信嗎你們的報告裡面\n\n09:16.710 --> 09:32.822\n現在七成是指這個英文課英文本科的老師那我們期待他未來能夠好那我只問嘛七成採全英文授課你這樣一句話這樣出來你相信這句話的陳述嗎七成是以班級為單位還是學生的七成用英文來授課部長你們大內宣裡面都這樣講新聞報導也這樣講七成採全英文授課所以我才問你的七成代表是什麼你的七成定義在哪裡\n\n09:44.400 --> 09:56.168\n有學生所有學生的期程都可以接受全英文授課嗎全台灣到這種程度了嗎沒有那是說老師有這些學校老師跟學員我們從日常生活有一些有一些\n\n09:57.270 --> 10:19.251\n就比較會正式課程的除了英文以外所以你說七成採全英文授課到底是怎麼一回事你到11月底你看嘛你們上面所寫的嘛我們全部的學校裡邊有2670所高中以下採英文課採全英文授課比率達七成英文課講全部講英文有七成是這樣子你相信嗎\n\n10:20.632 --> 10:25.753\n就全國的高中以下學校3800所除以2679所這2679所它是有負責的英文老師17000名中的英文老師還有班級有實施全英教學那這個全英教學的定義就是按照學生的這個程度用最大的輸出跟學生最大的輸出\n\n10:42.817 --> 10:49.903\n來做定義的你們不要拿這個部分你要去問全國家長說他的小孩誰犧牲來這個就是縣市政府給我們提報的數據那縣市政府自己填啊你相信嗎自己填自己填還有很多縣市政府你要是看到天下雜誌說很多的縣市政府他告訴你他們國中小以下全部公立學校百分之百實施全英文教學你相信嗎你知道他們自己填的\n\n11:04.794 --> 11:17.821\n這個就不會相信,所以我們會實際看輔導團去查,因為查了之後是2679項,謝謝好,那如果是這樣子的話,那你覺得部長,照你們這樣思想,你覺得全部的英文程度有沒有因此顯著提升?你覺得有沒有?我想學測的一個成績當中來,告訴你啦,學測啊,你這樣講,你放得太快了,我應該讓部長講你才來講你覺得有沒有顯著提升?\n\n11:28.939 --> 11:33.480\n我覺得整體來講他應該會有一些進步的有嗎來吧看一下事實證明來107年跟114年5級分以下23到100到114年卻變成34.17到11級分以上30%然後呢到114年到了43.9所以說呢\n\n11:50.666 --> 12:13.472\n你成績很多老師說他的英文的粗題越來越簡單但是的學生你看看目前來說這次平均值只有底標連續兩年探底只有三級分今年後標更是首次降到四級分所以呢這就是一個更不要說我們的城鄉差距我覺得給予大家這個讓孩子可以有英文的教學因為他是個國際語言完全是非常的贊同但是呢用這個數據因為你的數據太過於美化我們完全忽略了\n\n12:20.034 --> 12:43.066\n後面實質的一個真正的實情的一個做法這是我要不斷地特別提到的所以不能一個雙語正式掛在那個地方每個人就封到這個地方但是完全沒有辦法想像我們這個量能有沒有辦法跟上我們所標示的這個部分這才是我今天所要特別提出來的而且我相信葉米成教授在這個地方你應該知道所有英文最重要的部分是來自什麼叫做動機\n\n12:44.389 --> 13:08.174\n就是动机很多孩子特别偏远的孩子你给他有足够的动机让他觉得透过这样的语言的学习他可以获得更多的一个丰富的经验里面而不是透过这个补助不是透过这样的方法特别不是透过那个美化所以我看到你们所凸显出来的全国有七成的学校英文课都用全英文教学你这样说给全部家长听我真的觉得是谁相信我觉得这个完全是没有办法\n\n13:09.594 --> 13:27.381\n剛剛委員提到說學生英語的進步從103年的會考是比較帶加強的部分達到是33.73比較高三分之一但是113的時候是29所以顯著的下降這十年來經過一些現場老師的努力顯著下降了百分之四的帶加強這詳細的數字再跟委員補充\n\n13:28.561 --> 13:46.106\n再给我报告然后呢最重要我用的这样子的一个分数然后你不要忘记很多老师也反映在大学联考的这个所谓的英文的试题其实是有越来越简化的趋势如果越来越简化你还得到这样的一个部分再加上成像的部分我觉得这个数字可能比你所想象的不是\n\n13:46.866 --> 14:09.891\n如部长你所期待的会是如何所以这是整个系统的问题我还是强调如何让学生能够在这动机的部分能够做最大的提升我觉得远比你透过这个所谓EMI我就给你在这个所谓的补助上面得到多少多少这样的一个表面其实更具有实质的意义好不好这一次的提醒部长我还有很多的问题但是因为时间的关系我们就留待下一次再来做一个讨论谢谢\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.095,"end":31.845,"text":"好我们谢谢赵伟是不是首先请部长请部长备质询谢谢部长早在我们又进入今天的质询之前我还是要来关切一下我们有关于解冻案上次问了之后好像部长没有把细节掌握清楚那现在部分我还是非常的明确来问一下高教司的这个解冻案写好了吗还有我们的纪职司呢"},{"start":37.486,"end":57.386,"text":"目前這次只有一案書面那國教署呢國教署也是有一個書面報告而且是兩千萬運匯凍結是零那我們的學務司呢學務司書面大概是兩案三百七十二萬請問各司各位的書面報告到底目前是"},{"start":58.207,"end":73.58,"text":"我們基本上這個解凍案這個都已經這個初步都已經完成但是因為上一次大驗還有一個636億這一個統三的所以呢讓我們在內部裡面不知道"},{"start":74.561,"end":98.18,"text":"不知道就問主計處 如果主計處還沒有辦法告訴你你們這邊都是寫預估 就是主計處的失責我只是強調 不送案才是一個怠惰如果都寫好 我再問一下部長你有被要求不准送出解凍案嗎有被行政單位要求不准 目前為止不准送出解凍案嗎目前因為這個還是剛才跟委員報告的有沒有被要求"},{"start":99.085,"end":115.672,"text":"如果說數字不清楚組計處如果沒有辦法告訴你的話我還是強調就是組計是專算然後呢如果說不是行政院要求的話我也不能理解為什麼這麼久以來還沒有辦法釐清如果三讀通過之後我數字不清楚可以理解已經到這麼久了還沒有把數字搞清楚我個人覺得還是一句話不送案就是怠惰部長"},{"start":122.054,"end":149.387,"text":"我看到民进党委员说我们这个删减预算特别是冻结预算是打人又要救人我觉得这个比率是非常的不当的很多时候就是我们认为在很多的执行绩效上面有问题所以我们还透过这个冻结不是删减是冻结来希望大家能够把行政单位能够把神经绷紧点这是我们天经地义的却被这样子来做处理包括像这个态度现在已经四月了已经四月了"},{"start":149.687,"end":167.087,"text":"还在纠结过去在统山那个部分到底如何那就问清楚嘛都是靠在这个地方部长我要提醒你知道在2015年的时候吴斯华部长你应该认识这个人对不对他的好朋友对不对他当初被冻结的预算多少你知道吗"},{"start":172.519,"end":192.479,"text":"136億 136億 他有呼天搶地的像你們這樣到處下鄉是告訴我們連會考層級都沒有辦法 連會考都沒有辦法辦他有做這樣的事情嗎 他被凍了10個月被民進黨凍了10個月 教育部的很多的地方還是繼續在執行我只是告訴你 以任何部會 他有一些政治的考量 我可以"},{"start":193.34,"end":217.514,"text":"可以理解但是教育部絕對不行因為這是關係到我們全民的教育應該是比任何部會更加中立所以部長還是一句話不清楚的問題把他的一定清楚你也該問各委員然後呢寫好的包括後面的司長大家都需要用錢已經寫好的就趕快送上來我們招委一定可以馬上排排案幫你做這樣的處理有至愛難行的部分請你也勇敢提出來可以嗎 部長謝謝 謝謝委員提醒"},{"start":219.935,"end":240.354,"text":"好接下来呢我就觉得很非常纳闷既然都没有钱但是呢你看很多时候搞证明却要花很多的钱目前来说很多的名字只要是补助就可以补助三十万很多的建筑物就可以补助三十万而且这笔钱还不是放在教育部还是放在国发会"},{"start":241.015,"end":261.887,"text":"然後我就在想 與其編了750萬元去去威名去改名我們還不如給學生出國比賽給親韓子弟繳學費 獎金部長你不覺得這樣會比較好嗎一個建築物改名你只要改名就可以獲得30萬有這種事嗎那我們未來的中正大學 中正國中 中正國小是不是也要求他們要改名是不是也要這樣子前面一張"},{"start":267.955,"end":287.506,"text":"也需要嗎 中正大學改名是不是也可以獲得補助30萬這主要設施用來做轉型正義它並不是用來改名詞的轉型正義好 中正有問題是吧我想我們鼓勵大學在許多的人權教育轉型正義上的一些教育上所以說你覺得中正就觸犯了轉型正義嗎那我給大家看一下那部長你可能要回去看一下你們的教育部的國語詞典裡面就有中正兩個字什麼叫中正"},{"start":296.531,"end":322.361,"text":"文字跟名字無罪 中正呢 告訴你不偏不倚這是你們上面所條列出來 不偏不倚 禮記 好不好正職管子 其君子上中正而謝於然後呢 第三個 還有包括你 他是叫存正第四個 他是官職的名稱 請問中正關你什麼事什麼跟轉型正義有關啊跟委員報告 我們這一次的一個補助真的沒有跟這些改名詞有關聯性"},{"start":323.982,"end":334.267,"text":"那就把它澄清清楚啊否則每個新聞都告訴你為了改革中正你要花我就可以得到30萬如果因為這樣造成社會大眾誤解媒體上的報導有誤我想我們來我們來這個跟進部長還是一句話教育部是完全是完全應該擺脫所有的政治包袱之外我這次才是一個教育部應該正本其運的一件事情接下來我可能要請請教部長真正的一個比較大家都比較困擾的一個問題就是我們我關於我們的雙語國家的一個政策啊"},{"start":353.776,"end":373.317,"text":"這雙語我就覺得能夠讓學生能夠在學校裡面得到這個雙語我覺得沒有問題但是問題是為了這個一個雙語這樣的一個政策你知道嗎像全英語授課就是我們說的一個掛了一個EMI你就可以獲得比較多的一個補助但是呢我們現在目前的雙語政策到底有沒有辦法讓"},{"start":374.378,"end":402.06,"text":"我们台湾的孩子英文程度因此提高我们变得更加国际化所以呢我想请问部长真的是这个教育政策的专业是不是过了EMI甚至有很多的学校为了要推行这个拿到教育步骤的补助很多的中文系包括某大学里面的社会系他完全排挤了所谓的本土的博士完全是只要你能够讲英文才有办法进入他们领选的一个标准部长你觉得这样合理吗"},{"start":403.588,"end":420.247,"text":"我們在中小學第一個我們現在叫做雙語教育那第二個就有關於中小學老師的聘用我們大概幾個方向我進來以後大概調整英文課本來國中高中的英語課他老師就是專門的"},{"start":421.969,"end":440.074,"text":"外語的一個主修所以英文課先開始用全英文來授課其他中小學 國中小我們希望從日常生活裡邊他能夠自我介紹你覺得全英文的授課裡面老師來用全英文教學到底有沒有辦法把它普及化我覺得這是一個目標這是一個目標但是部長我現在告訴你"},{"start":443.915,"end":460.548,"text":"以全国目前来说EMA推动的能量来预估目前国内一般大学的老师可以用全英文授课的大概占全体专业老师的大概是两成那以台大这个我们最顶尖的学校来说完全是用英文来的大概是所有老师里面的二成三"},{"start":460.868,"end":488.247,"text":"大概就只有是这个样子所以说呢很多的时候就是因为教育部卡在一个补助的问题全校的大专院校完全疯狂在这个地方那我想请问你所谓的全英文授课还有双语教育这是两码的不一样的部分很多老师只是用英文的教材还可以跟你报说他具有这个英文授课然后呢你们也没有做更进一步的检测啊然后钱只要是这样子只要框上这个名字你们就给经费嘛有没有这样的事情"},{"start":489.428,"end":512.158,"text":"跟我們報告我們當然鼓勵學校聘老師就是專業優先然後他配合學校的重點特色的發展他有一些人才的思思能量的一些期待中文系的老師是不是需要一定要具備有具有英文可以授課的人才可以來教中文我們來了解基本上他不會有這樣的一件事情"},{"start":512.758,"end":529.804,"text":"我告訴你我來自學校我們現在目前來說連體育老師都要講英文連中文老師都要講英文這是完全存在這個社會上面的事實存在我所看過的所需要的事實應該會有少數的學校他給自己定位一個國際頂尖的一個大學的定位但是其他的學校我相信應該不會是這樣"},{"start":531.284,"end":547.048,"text":"其他的學校都是這樣子部長你需要了解很多私立大學裡面中文系的老師要是聘請的時候都要求他會講英文這個東西對很多學校造成困擾包括行政人員他都是以英文系為優先這都是因為礦藏教育部的補助希望能夠強力的推動我們就先來看看嘛你剛說七成的中小學要全英文授課部長你相信嗎你們的報告裡面"},{"start":556.71,"end":572.822,"text":"現在七成是指這個英文課英文本科的老師那我們期待他未來能夠好那我只問嘛七成採全英文授課你這樣一句話這樣出來你相信這句話的陳述嗎七成是以班級為單位還是學生的七成用英文來授課部長你們大內宣裡面都這樣講新聞報導也這樣講七成採全英文授課所以我才問你的七成代表是什麼你的七成定義在哪裡"},{"start":584.4,"end":596.168,"text":"有學生所有學生的期程都可以接受全英文授課嗎全台灣到這種程度了嗎沒有 那是說老師有這些學校老師跟學員我們從日常生活有一些有一些"},{"start":597.27,"end":619.251,"text":"就比較會正式課程的除了英文以外所以你說七成採全英文授課到底是怎麼一回事你到11月底你看嘛你們上面所寫的嘛我們全部的學校裡邊有2670所高中以下採英文課採全英文授課比率達七成英文課講全部講英文有七成是這樣子你相信嗎"},{"start":620.632,"end":625.753,"text":"就全國的高中以下學校3800所除以2679所這2679所它是有負責的英文老師17000名中的英文老師還有班級有實施全英教學那這個全英教學的定義就是按照學生的這個程度用最大的輸出跟學生最大的輸出"},{"start":642.817,"end":649.903,"text":"來做定義的你們不要拿這個部分你要去問全國家長說他的小孩誰犧牲來這個就是縣市政府給我們提報的數據那縣市政府自己填啊你相信嗎自己填自己填還有很多縣市政府你要是看到天下雜誌說很多的縣市政府他告訴你他們國中小以下全部公立學校百分之百實施全英文教學你相信嗎你知道他們自己填的"},{"start":664.794,"end":677.821,"text":"這個就不會相信,所以我們會實際看輔導團去查,因為查了之後是2679項,謝謝好,那如果是這樣子的話,那你覺得部長,照你們這樣思想,你覺得全部的英文程度有沒有因此顯著提升?你覺得有沒有?我想學測的一個成績當中來,告訴你啦,學測啊,你這樣講,你放得太快了,我應該讓部長講你才來講你覺得有沒有顯著提升?"},{"start":688.939,"end":693.48,"text":"我覺得整體來講他應該會有一些進步的有嗎來吧看一下事實證明來107年跟114年5級分以下23到100到114年卻變成34.17到11級分以上30%然後呢到114年到了43.9所以說呢"},{"start":710.666,"end":733.472,"text":"你成績很多老師說他的英文的粗題越來越簡單但是的學生你看看目前來說這次平均值只有底標連續兩年探底只有三級分今年後標更是首次降到四級分所以呢這就是一個更不要說我們的城鄉差距我覺得給予大家這個讓孩子可以有英文的教學因為他是個國際語言完全是非常的贊同但是呢用這個數據因為你的數據太過於美化我們完全忽略了"},{"start":740.034,"end":763.066,"text":"後面實質的一個真正的實情的一個做法這是我要不斷地特別提到的所以不能一個雙語正式掛在那個地方每個人就封到這個地方但是完全沒有辦法想像我們這個量能有沒有辦法跟上我們所標示的這個部分這才是我今天所要特別提出來的而且我相信葉米成教授在這個地方你應該知道所有英文最重要的部分是來自什麼叫做動機"},{"start":764.389,"end":788.174,"text":"就是动机很多孩子特别偏远的孩子你给他有足够的动机让他觉得透过这样的语言的学习他可以获得更多的一个丰富的经验里面而不是透过这个补助不是透过这样的方法特别不是透过那个美化所以我看到你们所凸显出来的全国有七成的学校英文课都用全英文教学你这样说给全部家长听我真的觉得是谁相信我觉得这个完全是没有办法"},{"start":789.594,"end":807.381,"text":"剛剛委員提到說學生英語的進步從103年的會考是比較帶加強的部分達到是33.73 比較高三分之一但是113的時候是29所以顯著的下降這十年來經過一些現場老師的努力顯著下降了百分之四的帶加強這詳細的數字再跟委員補充"},{"start":808.561,"end":826.106,"text":"再给我报告然后呢最重要我用的这样子的一个分数然后你不要忘记很多老师也反映在大学联考的这个所谓的英文的试题其实是有越来越简化的趋势如果越来越简化你还得到这样的一个部分再加上成像的部分我觉得这个数字可能比你所想象的不是"},{"start":826.866,"end":849.891,"text":"如部长你所期待的会是如何所以这是整个系统的问题我还是强调如何让学生能够在这动机的部分能够做最大的提升我觉得远比你透过这个所谓EMI我就给你在这个所谓的补助上面得到多少多少这样的一个表面其实更具有实质的意义好不好这一次的提醒部长我还有很多的问题但是因为时间的关系我们就留待下一次再来做一个讨论谢谢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":110,"blocks":[["柯委員志恩：（9時28分）謝謝召委。是不是首先請部長？"],["主席：請部長備質詢，謝謝。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員早。"],["柯委員志恩：部長早。在我們進入今天的質詢之前，我還是要來關切一下有關於解凍案，上次問了之後，好像部長沒有把細節掌握清楚，現在我還是非常明確的來問一下，高教司的解凍案寫好了嗎？還有我們的技職司呢？目前技職司只有1案書面報告。國教署呢？國教署也只有一個書面報告，而且是2,000萬，院會凍結是零。我們的學務司呢？學務司書面報告大概是兩案，372萬。請問各司署，各位的書面報告到底目前是如何？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，基本上解凍案初步都已經完成，但是因為上一次大院還有一個636億統刪的……"],["柯委員志恩：所以……"],["鄭部長英耀：讓我們在內部裡面不知道有一些……"],["柯委員志恩：不知道就問主計處，如果主計處還沒有辦法告訴你，你們這邊都是寫預估，就是主計處的失責，我只是強調不送案才是怠惰。如果都寫好，我再問部長，你有被要求不准送出解凍案嗎？目前為止，有被行政單位要求不准送出解凍案嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：這個還是剛才跟委員報告的，這個……"],["柯委員志恩：有沒有被要求？如果說數字不清楚，主計總處沒有辦法告訴你，我還是要強調，這就是主計總處裝蒜；如果不是行政院要求的話，我也不能理解，為什麼過這麼久時間還沒有辦法釐清？三讀通過之後數字不清楚，我可以理解，已經都這麼久了，還沒有把數字搞清楚，我個人覺得還是一句話：不送案就是怠惰。","部長，民進黨委員說這個刪減預算，特別是凍結預算，是打人又要救人，我覺得這個比喻非常不恰當，很多時候我們是認為執行績效上有問題，所以透過凍結預算，不是刪減，是凍結，希望行政單位能夠把神經繃緊一點，這是我們天經地義的職責，卻被這樣處理，包括這樣的一個態度，現在已經4月了，還在糾結過去統刪的那個部分到底如何，那就問清楚嘛！如果都卡在這個地方，我要提醒部長，你知道2015年時的吳思華部長嗎？你應該認識這個人，對不對？你們是好朋友，對不對？他當初被凍結的預算多少，你知道嗎？136億！他有像你們這樣呼天搶地的到處下鄉告訴民眾連會考都沒有辦法辦，他有做這樣的事情嗎？他的預算被民進黨凍了10個月，教育部很多工作還是繼續在執行。我只是要告訴你，任何部會有一些政治考量，我可以理解，但是教育部絕對不行，因為這關係到我們全民的教育，應該比任何部會更加中立，所以部長，還是一句話：不清楚的問題把它釐清清楚。你也可以來問各委員，包括後面的司長們，大家都需要用錢，已經寫好的就趕快送上來，召委一定可以馬上排案，幫你們做預算的處理，有窒礙難行的部分，也請你勇敢的提出來，可以嗎，部長？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝，謝謝委員提醒。"],["柯委員志恩：好。接下來我就覺得非常納悶，既然沒有錢，為什麼還要花錢搞正名活動？很多時候搞正名都要花很多錢，以目前來說，只要有正名就補助30萬，很多建築物正名就補助30萬，而且這筆錢還不是放在教育部，而是放在國發會，然後我就在想，與其編750萬用於去威權、改名，還不如給學生出國比賽，或給清寒子弟繳學費或獎學金，部長，你不覺得這樣比較好嗎？一個建築物改名就可以獲得30萬，有這種事嗎？那未來中正大學、中正國中、中正國小是不是也要求他們改名？是不是也要這樣子？需要嗎？中正大學改名是不是也可以獲得30萬補助？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，這主要是用來做轉型正義，並不是用來改名字的。"],["柯委員志恩：轉型正義？好，「中正」有問題嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：沒有，我們是鼓勵大學在許多人權教育、轉型正義上的一些教育上……"],["柯委員志恩：所以你覺得「中正」就觸犯了轉型正義嗎？部長，你可能要回去看一下你們教育部的國語辭典，裡面就有「中正」兩個字，什麼叫「中正」？文字跟名字無罪，這是你們辭典上面條列出來的：1、不偏不倚。《禮記》；2、正直。《管子》：「其君子上中正而下諂諛。」；3、純正；4、職官名。請問「中正」關你什麼事？怎麼跟轉型正義有關？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，我們這一次的補助，真的跟這些改名詞沒有關聯性。"],["柯委員志恩：那就澄清清楚，否則每個新聞都告訴民眾，改個「中正」就可以得到30萬。"],["鄭部長英耀：如果因為這樣而造成社會大眾誤解，這是媒體的報導有誤，我們來更正。"],["柯委員志恩：是，部長，還是一句話：教育部應該完全擺脫於所有政治包袱之外，這才是教育部正本清源的一件事。","接下來，我要請教部長一個大家都比較困擾的問題，就是有關於雙語國家政策。我覺得能夠讓學生在學校裡得到雙語教育，這沒有問題，問題是為了雙語這樣一個政策，像全英語授課，掛一個EMI，就可以獲得比較多的補助，但是我們目前的雙語政策，到底有沒有辦法讓臺灣孩子的英文程度因此提高，變得更加國際化呢？我想請問部長一個教育政策的專業，是不是掛了EMI，甚至很多學校為了拿到教育部的補助，很多中文系，包括某大學的社會系，都完全排擠所謂的本土博士，必須要能夠講英文，才有辦法進入他們遴選的標準，部長，你覺得這樣合理嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：中小學部分，第一個，我們現在叫做雙語教育；第二個，有關於中小學老師的聘用，我進來以後，大概調整了幾個方向，本來國中、高中的英語課，老師就是專門的外語主修，所以英文課先開始用全英文授課，其他中小學、國中小，我們希望從日常生活裡推動，讓他能夠自我介紹……"],["柯委員志恩：你覺得全英文授課、老師用全英文教學，到底有沒有辦法讓英文普及化？我知道這是一個目標……"],["鄭部長英耀：我們會逐步……"],["柯委員志恩：這是一個目標，但是部長我要告訴你，以全國EMI推動的能量預估，目前國內一般大學的老師可以用全英文授課的，大概占全體專任老師的兩成，以最頂尖的學校臺大來說，完全用英文授課的老師大概占所有老師的二成三，大概就只有這個樣子，所以很多時候，就是因為卡在教育部補助的問題，全國大專院校完全瘋狂在這個地方，其實你所謂的全英文授課跟雙語教育，是兩碼不一樣的部分，很多老師只是用英文教材，他也可以跟你報說他具有全英文授課，然後你們也沒有做進一步的檢測，只要放上這個名字，你們就給經費，有沒有這樣的事情？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，我們當然鼓勵學校聘老師以專業優先，然後配合學校的重點、特色發展，有一些師資人才、能量的期待，我想這個部分……"],["柯委員志恩：那中文系的老師，是不是也需要具備有全英文授課能力，才可以來教中文？"],["鄭部長英耀：這個事後我們來了解，基本上，不會有這樣的一件事情。"],["柯委員志恩：喔！我告訴你，我來自學校，目前來說，連體育老師都要講英文、連中文老師都要講英文，這是完全存在在這個社會的事實，存在在我所看過的學校的事實。"],["鄭部長英耀：應該會有少數的學校給自己定位是國際頂尖的大學，但其他學校，我相信應該不會這樣。"],["柯委員志恩：其他的學校都是這樣子，部長，你去了解，很多私立大學在聘請中文系老師時，都要求他要會講英文，造成很多學校的困擾，包括行政人員，也都是以英文系為優先，這都是困擾，只因為匡上教育部的補助，希望能夠強力推動。","我們就先來看看，書面報告說七成的中小學採全英文授課，部長相信嗎？你們的報告裡面……"],["鄭部長英耀：這邊的七成是指英文課，是英文本科的老師，我們期待他未來能夠……"],["柯委員志恩：好，那我只問，七成採全英文授課這樣一句話出來，你相信這句話的成數嗎？七成是以班級為單位，還是有七成的學生用英文授課？部長，你們的大內宣都這樣講、新聞報導也這樣講，七成採全英文授課，所以我才問你，你的七成代表什麼？你的七成定義在哪裡？是所有學生的七成都可以接受全英文授課嗎？全臺灣的英文到這種的程度了嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：這是說有這些學校的老師跟學生，從日常生活中一些比較非正式課程的，除了英文課以外，英文……"],["柯委員志恩：所以你說七成採全英文授課，到底是怎麼一回事？你看嘛！你們報告上所寫的……"],["鄭部長英耀：我們全部的學校裡邊……"],["柯委員志恩：有2,679所高中以下學校英文課採全英文授課，實施比率達七成。英文課全部講英文的有七成，你相信嗎？"],["彭署長富源：跟委員報告，就是全國高中以下學校3,800所除以2,679所，這2,679所是有負責的英文老師1萬7,000名……"],["柯委員志恩：好，英文老師怎麼樣？"],["彭署長富源：還有班級，有實施全英教學，這個全英教學的定義，就是按照學生的程度，用最大的輸出來做定義的。"],["柯委員志恩：你們不要拿這個部分來說，你要去問全國家長，他們的小孩是不是有七成……"],["彭署長富源：這是縣市政府提報給我們的數據。"],["柯委員志恩：那是縣市政府自己填的，你相信嗎？是自填的。還有，天下雜誌報導，很多縣市政府說他們的國中小以下全部公立學校百分之百實施全英文教學，你相信嗎？這都是你叫他們自己填的。"],["彭署長富源：這個就不會相信，所以我們會實際去看，輔導團會去查，經過查了之後，是2,679校，謝謝。"],["柯委員志恩：好，如果是這樣的話，部長，照你們這樣的思想，你覺得全部學生的英文程度有沒有因此顯著提升？你覺得有沒有？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想學測的成績，當然……"],["柯委員志恩：好啦！告訴你啦！我正要講學測，我的簡報放得太快，應該讓部長先講，你覺得有沒有顯著提升？"],["鄭部長英耀：我覺得整體來講，它應該會有一些進步。"],["柯委員志恩：有嗎？看一下事實證明，107年跟114年，107年5級分以下是23%，到114年卻變成34.17%；11級分以上是30%，然後114年到了43.9%。所以很多老師說英文的出題越來越簡單，但是你看看學生的成績，目前來說這是平均值，底標連續2年探底只有3級分，今年後標更是首次降到4級分，所以更不要說我們的城鄉差距，我覺得可以給予孩子英文的教學，因為它是國際語言，完全是非常的贊同，但是用這個數據，因為你的數據太過於美化，我們完全忽略了後面實質的、真正實行的做法，這是我要不斷特別提到的，所以不能一個雙語政策掛在那個地方，每個人都瘋到這個地方，但是完全沒有辦法想像我們的量能有沒有辦法跟上我們所標示的這個部分，這才是我今天所要特別提出來的。","而且葉丙成教授在這個地方，我相信你應該知道，學習英文最重要的部分是來自什麼？叫做動機，就是動機，很多孩子，特別是偏遠地區的孩子，你給他有足夠的動機，讓他覺得透過這樣的語言學習，他可以獲得更多豐富的經驗，而不是透過補助，不是透過這樣的方法，特別不是透過那個美化。所以我看到你們所凸顯出來的，全國有七成學校的英文課都用全英文教學，你這樣說給全部家長聽，我真的覺得是誰相信，我覺得這個是完全沒有辦法接受的。"],["彭署長富源：不好意思，給我5秒。剛剛委員提到說學生英語的進步，從103年的會考，比較待加強的部分是達到33.73%，比較高，有三分之一，但是113年的時候是29%，所以這10年來有顯著的下降，經過一些現場老師的努力，顯著下降了4%的待加強，這詳細的數字再跟委員補充，謝謝。"],["柯委員志恩：再跟我報告。然後最重要的，我用這樣子的分數……然後你不要忘記，很多老師也反映在大學聯考所謂的英文試題其實是有越來越簡化的趨勢，如果越來越簡化，你還得到這樣的一個部分，再加上城鄉的部分，我覺得這個數字可能比你所想像的……不是如部長所期待的會是如何，所以這是整個系統的問題。我還是強調，如何讓學生能夠在動機的部分做最大的提升，我覺得遠比你透過所謂的EMI，我就給你在補助上面得到多少多少，這比這樣的表面其實更具有實質的意義，好不好？再次的提醒部長。我還有很多的問題，但是因為時間的關係，我們就留待下次再來做討論，謝謝。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝柯志恩委員質詢，部長請回座，官員請回座，謝謝。"],["主席（柯委員志恩代）：我們現在請葛如鈞委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":186,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-7","speakers":["葛如鈞","萬美玲","柯志恩","劉書彬","羅廷瑋","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林宜瑾","吳思瑤","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","林沛祥","張雅琳","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","范雲","李坤城","謝龍介","王定宇","黃國昌","翁曉玲","陳培瑜","葉元之","高金素梅"],"page_start":113,"meetingDate":["2025-04-14"],"gazette_id":"1143702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143702_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143702_00003"}}}