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320.81, \"end\": 321.631, \"score\": 0.782}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 321.631, \"end\": 321.751, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 321.751, \"end\": 322.671, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"誤\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 322.671, \"end\": 322.892, \"score\": 0.733}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 322.892, \"end\": 323.072, \"score\": 0.727}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 323.072, \"end\": 323.272, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 323.272, \"end\": 323.752, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 323.752, \"end\": 324.372, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 324.372, \"end\": 324.652, \"score\": 0.685}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 324.652, \"end\": 324.813, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 324.813, \"end\": 324.873, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 324.873, \"end\": 325.213, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"近\", \"start\": 325.213, \"end\": 325.373, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 325.373, \"end\": 325.493, \"score\": 0.663}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 325.493, \"end\": 325.653, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 325.653, \"end\": 325.673, \"score\": 0.005}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 325.673, \"end\": 325.873, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 325.873, \"end\": 326.053, \"score\": 0.774}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 326.053, \"end\": 326.453, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"凍\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 326.453, \"end\": 326.834, \"score\": 0.71}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 326.834, \"end\": 327.094, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"形\", \"start\": 327.094, \"end\": 327.114, \"score\": 0.453}]}, {\"start\": 327.794, \"end\": 347.208, \"text\": \"近五年整理可以看到潘文忠前部長領導之下的教育部在74件書面報告的情況之下可以在四月中以前將解凍報告送進立法院讓委員會五月初就能夠排審解凍案並且歷年來在凍結金額破億的情況之下\", \"words\": [{\"word\": 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\"end\": 372.347, \"text\": \"幾乎都有在上半年委員會完成解凍案的排審也就是凍結金額越高教育部虛錢恐急就應該越快將解凍報告送立院排審只有唯一一次例外是113年度因為當時呢是相對金額比較低低於五千萬相信不是當時的范雲召委不願意替教育部排審而是合理懷疑可能是當年確實不缺這些錢所以解凍進度呢較往常慢\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"乎\", \"start\": 347.988, \"end\": 348.188, \"score\": 0.682}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 348.188, \"end\": 348.369, \"score\": 0.734}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 348.369, \"end\": 348.529, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 348.529, \"end\": 348.829, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 348.829, \"end\": 349.149, \"score\": 0.787}, {\"word\": \"半\", \"start\": 349.149, \"end\": 349.389, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 349.389, \"end\": 349.81, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 349.81, \"end\": 350.55, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 350.55, \"end\": 350.85, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 350.85, \"end\": 351.111, \"score\": 0.697}, {\"word\": \"解\", 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{\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 985.259, \"end\": 985.419, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 985.419, \"end\": 985.559, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 985.559, \"end\": 985.739, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 985.739, \"end\": 985.899, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 985.899, \"end\": 986.18, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 986.18, \"end\": 986.52, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"顧\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 986.52, \"end\": 986.8, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 986.8, \"end\": 987.08, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 987.08, \"end\": 987.241, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 987.241, \"end\": 987.481, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"環\"}, {\"word\": \"境\", \"start\": 987.481, \"end\": 987.501, \"score\": 0.071}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,846 --> 00:00:19,254\n好好謝謝代理主席有請教育部鄭英耀部長好請部長\n\n2\n00:00:26,362 --> 00:00:43,507\n謝謝部長先前網路上流傳不實消息有說公費留學預算遭到立院動三影響學生權益教育部事後雖然是有用新聞稿來予以澄清但是動作其實也慢了好多拍造成了很多學生跟家長的恐慌\n\n3\n00:00:44,207 --> 00:01:05,188\n加上事後並未對不實消息的來源進行相關的追查其實也沒有進一步的採取法律行動其實會讓很多人懷疑部長您所率領的教育部是不是有點累了接下來我想最主要的其實也就是所謂的教育資源的問題所以最先還是要來和部長關心一下您的預算\n\n4\n00:01:06,169 --> 00:01:25,067\n部長本席是本會期負責排審教育部業務報告和預算解凍審查的召委可是到目前為止教文委員會並沒有收到任何一個教育部的解凍案就連送進院會一讀的案子也完全沒有\n\n5\n00:01:25,948 --> 00:01:47,310\n想請教一下部長您知道解動案送進院會一讀教父委員會以後還需要經過複議期才能夠排審現在全國的師生家長都在關心教育部是不是有在積極準備預算解動案想請教部長請問教育部什麼時候可以將114年度的預算解動案送進立法院審查\n\n6\n00:01:49,947 --> 00:02:16,628\n時間什麼時候可以我們解凍案的所有的所有我們目前都已經準備剛才我跟柯委員提到說因為統統的關係但是對第一線上所有的中小學的該補助的該所有的計畫的執行我們目前大概在因為考慮到都夠是不是都前半年我們大概先補助同仁都點頭完全足夠所以不解凍是不是沒有就是先\n\n7\n00:02:17,388 --> 00:02:40,354\n是不是全部都夠嘛所以都夠不用解是嗎50%我們先撥50%需不需要解凍我們當然期待要解凍要解凍嘛對不對錢夠不夠用目前來講上半年是沒有問題的所以上半年都不用再解凍了是嗎6月31號以前不會送出是嗎我跟委員報告還是那個363裡面如果能夠你去636這一個部長兩個問題第一個請問什麼時候送進來\n\n8\n00:02:46,846 --> 00:03:01,749\n是不是你現在在告訴我們6月31號6月30號以後才會送進來你現在就可以直接說我想這個部分我們跟主席日期什麼時候送進來第一個案子部長請回答我什麼時候送進來第一個案子因為您說已經準備好了\n\n9\n00:03:02,503 --> 00:03:21,821\n因為還是跟委員報告636是不是是沒有就說就這一個目前扣除636的這個情況不變我們已經大概初步都已經好了不是部長我想您現在做了兩個很不太好的示範對全國家長私生是什麼呢\n\n10\n00:03:22,862 --> 00:03:32,495\n您現在要做一些工作可是您不給同仁日期啊您不給同仁不給全國師生一個設定的日期喔有沒有設定\n\n11\n00:03:33,663 --> 00:03:54,056\n有沒有設定日期我們只要能夠這一個有沒有設定日期對不起部長有沒有我們現在是在給全國做示範有沒有設定日期我們當然是希望能夠越早越早能夠如果學生這樣跟老師說老師我越早教越好老師說你什麼時候教我越早教越好這樣可以嗎部長可以嗎時間暫停我們讓部長回答\n\n12\n00:04:01,072 --> 00:04:24,890\n我們時間暫停當然是因為有一些就是因為跟我們報告就是因為有一些我們還沒有辦法再來那我問部長你剛剛說636嘛請問學生可不可以跟老師說老師因為我知道後面可能還有其他的作業所以現在這個作業我沒有辦法教因為之後可能還有更多作業學生可不可以這樣部長請回答不過我想有一些這個情況確實是\n\n13\n00:04:30,290 --> 00:04:39,756\n部長請回答學生可不可以這樣回答那要看還是要看這一個casebycase所以學生可以回答老師說casebycase喔\n\n14\n00:04:40,615 --> 00:05:08,905\n就是我的case啊學生說我的case就是這樣啊我可以晚一點交因為部長是這樣示範的啊情境更清楚的時候我們當然才好來做回覆部長我想這個我們委員會送出這個預算其實18個凍結案都已經確定題目至今超過100天部長您是教育專家也希望可以跟學生老師做一個最好的示範希望不要用這些理由來呈現\n\n15\n00:05:10,385 --> 00:05:27,114\n其實我們剛剛都只是在講一個這樣子的一個理念上的問題但我想我們也是要很科學很數據的希望能夠來說服您您現在的作為其實會讓別人誤會您是不作為的我們來看一下近五年教育部解凍的這個情形\n\n16\n00:05:27,794 --> 00:05:47,208\n近五年整理可以看到潘文忠前部長領導之下的教育部在74件書面報告的情況之下可以在四月中以前將解凍報告送進立法院讓委員會五月初就能夠排審解凍案並且歷年來在凍結金額破億的情況之下\n\n17\n00:05:47,988 --> 00:06:12,347\n幾乎都有在上半年委員會完成解凍案的排審也就是凍結金額越高教育部虛錢恐急就應該越快將解凍報告送立院排審只有唯一一次例外是113年度因為當時呢是相對金額比較低低於五千萬相信不是當時的范雲召委不願意替教育部排審而是合理懷疑可能是當年確實不缺這些錢所以解凍進度呢較往常慢\n\n18\n00:06:17,631 --> 00:06:47,020\n那對此呢本席辦公室也特別去了解一下目前教育部預算解凍項目的執行情況從教育部提供的資料發現到三月底為止14個有被凍結預算的科目當中控除凍結以後可凍資的預算執行率最高只有40%我們也是有做功課的其中甚至有兩個預算科目的執行率是零啊也就是說即便有了預算教育部到三月底以前也還完全沒有開始支用\n\n19\n00:06:47,840 --> 00:06:55,048\n從近五年的資料來看恐怕真的是不缺錢才是教育部不急著來解凍預算的主要原因是不是這樣\n\n20\n00:06:56,974 --> 00:07:25,229\n我跟委員報告教育部是不是不缺錢基本上我謝謝我們教委會的委員對教育部經費的預算的一個支持那但是這一個凍結的這一個部分我們當然也希望他早一點凍這個解凍但是因為大宴當時的桶山裡邊這一個讓讓教育部在內部的一個預算上到目前還沒有一個比較明確的一個剛剛澳門已經提過了是\n\n21\n00:07:25,549 --> 00:07:43,930\n學生不可能因為說後面還有別的功課我現在的功課就不教這是不makesense的所以我恐怕可能不只是太有錢可能也是太聽話請教一下院部長有沒有行政院的長官來說什麼時候之前不要送解凍案\n\n22\n00:07:45,063 --> 00:07:54,330\n我想應該是這麼講說教育部也是行政院的團隊有沒有受到行政院的指示影響了解凍案送出的時間有還是沒有這是國會有還是沒有行政院只是告訴我們在這個636裡面還沒有一個基本的一個基調所以是不是行政院說636要完全完成了以後你們才送\n\n23\n00:08:10,151 --> 00:08:29,265\n有沒有這樣說基本上並沒有做這樣的一個指示只是說希望能夠636能夠有一個明確的看怎麼樣因為行政院在過去都在提不一樣換句話說嘛實際上您已經證實了行政院說636如果沒有處理的話解冬案就不要處理嘛現在636那我請教部長636億的分配是誰來分配\n\n24\n00:08:36,603 --> 00:08:56,222\n您知道嗎行政院會有一些行政院分配嘛所以行政院左手說636還沒分配右手說因為還沒分配所以你們可能沒辦法解凍這樣的邏輯合理嗎行政院基本上因為對114的預算裡面他有提大院來附議嘛所以這一些時間當然多少他耽擱了一些時間謝謝\n\n25\n00:08:59,025 --> 00:09:20,994\n部長您真的辛苦了啦我想還是要請教一下剛剛我們都已經了解部長的態度了我們也理解行政院的態度啦那我們就以這個您個人的態度我們希望來請教您您如何看待立委以預算的煽動來監督行政機關的行為您覺得這是符不符合邏輯的\n\n26\n00:09:22,621 --> 00:09:35,574\n我想我不能這樣來說明基本上預算就政府部門預算編列當然它依法行政嘛但是我們立委因為選民的一個授權所以給予監督我想這當然都是各盡其職但只是這一次後來譬如說我剛才特別提\n\n27\n00:09:46,204 --> 00:10:13,557\n教委會我感謝委員對教育部業務這個預算上的一個支持但到大院以後它確實變了有一些不是我們一起的一個結果所以我們現在確實也產生了一些困擾事實上我想預算煽動不管在哪一個環節也都是我們立法委員的職責我想分享給教育部部長高等教育的部分其實我們提案凍結的金額\n\n28\n00:10:14,837 --> 00:10:42,674\n最高的一个预算案呢其实是民进党委员的提案高等教育行政以及督导一共编列243.8亿有一名委员的一个案子就冻结了十分之一超过24亿最后有幸在万美林召委的积极协调之下以及所有委员的配合之下该委员没有坚持要冻结24亿而是以委员会共事的方式来冻结该项科目3000万元并且以书面报告方式解冻\n\n29\n00:10:43,594 --> 00:11:05,911\n而中等教育的部分一共編列了20.3億元教育委員會的委員一共提出15個預算案其中六位民進黨的委員們提案總共凍結4.76億超過整個科目預算五分之一如果依照總統府的標準來看民進黨委員們是不是也算傷害中等教育未遂\n\n30\n00:11:06,371 --> 00:11:23,103\n因為有我們的總統府副秘書長上節目說只要有提案的都算是未遂就算他沒有通過部長您覺得動山預算要求行政部門改善既有的政策跟措施對於行政部門是一種傷害嗎還是您剛剛所說其實就是我們負責而已\n\n31\n00:11:29,261 --> 00:11:56,588\n各位委員報告我想這個不管哪一個政黨對教育部的預算提出了一個凍結都是希望教育部在整個政策的推動有一個更詳細的更妥適的一些思考那也許有一些內部或者有一些呈現的資料委員並不清楚那我們來補充說明好作為部長您覺得如果提案最後就是算是協調完成沒有凍結或刪除這算不算一種凍三未遂啊\n\n32\n00:11:58,257 --> 00:12:05,601\n你覺得這樣的說法好嗎我不是這方面的專家我不知道怎麼樣來回答我想這個語文的事情希望大家還是客觀的來看待潘文中前部長領導的教育部確實很努力的來完成預算煽動其實我對政務部長您的期待也很深希望您能夠傾訴於蘭在政務部長領導之下可以給同仁一個明確的時間能不能更合理的來送出解凍案讓我們的各級\n\n33\n00:12:25,610 --> 00:12:52,470\n單位都能夠有更充足的預算來使用來滿足我們的所謂的師生的需要最後幾個小問題想請教就是AI的部分就是我們現在在飲食習慣上面其實有說什麼能吃什麼不能吃但是現在我們的教育部有很明確的指令說不可以用特定的AI的服務但我想請教一下部長有沒有說建議學生使用哪一些AI服務有還是沒有\n\n34\n00:12:57,703 --> 00:13:24,666\n不好意思那個代理主席我借用幾分我很快加速是跟委員報告就是目前的話就是如果是中小學的部分有沒有正面表列清單現在有負面清單嘛對有沒有正面表列清單跟委員報告就是目前因為根據UNESCO是希望12歲以下盡量用教育的AI所以我們目前就是有針對教育部有一度這樣子的一個教育\n\n35\n00:13:25,406 --> 00:13:46,584\n我們沒有分我們是公立學校我們還有高等教育所以12歲以上就不管他們了12歲以下就是不要用12歲以上隨便亂用其實跟委員報告這個部分我們有在研擬一些相關的規範事實上我們看到教學手冊AI的教學協作手冊已經出到3.0了學生版的手冊到1.0都還不見終於請問何時可以推出學生版的AI使用手冊什麼時候\n\n36\n00:13:54,921 --> 00:14:17,600\n跟委員報告這個我們回去這跟預算沒有關係嘛對是這個部分我們回去來評估一下時間趕快告訴我們好不好什麼時候可以抓住一個時間來不是說你什麼時候要提出什麼時候抓一個時間跟委員報告這個因為我們還要召集專家是不是可以給我們就是到就是下學期開學之前可以嗎\n\n37\n00:14:19,526 --> 00:14:35,901\n盡快吧盡快好不好盡快這個我們辦公室在跟您聯絡最後我想一樣科技這個視訊能不能給一些離島高中用視訊的方式來面試因為接下來這個考技南北奔波加上住宿費其實這是不分黨派所以我們都想要來幫家長詢問一下\n\n38\n00:14:39,904 --> 00:14:51,455\n有沒有這個視訊應考的這種可能性謝謝委員提醒我們目前確實就有提供鼓勵各大學在地方上區域有現在是可以視訊應考的是嗎視訊面試是離島地區的離島地區就可以了\n\n39\n00:14:55,359 --> 00:15:08,245\n好太好了相關規定也希望可以多加宣傳我們一起來宣傳那因為我們課政委員是戴昭偉他之前有排冰箱教育條例但是現在已經過了已經將近快要一年了當時有提到說這個臧料次長也在這邊有提到說半年內提出院版草案半年加起來應該是去年12月\n\n40\n00:15:18,429 --> 00:15:32,218\n這個是不是胎死腹中啊我有聽說已經喊停了如果已經喊停的話剛好我們柯之恩委員也在這邊是不是可以給我們一個答覆我想這不只是柯之恩委員啦我想跨黨派的委員都很在意偏鄉教育條例這是我最後一個問題\n\n41\n00:15:38,908 --> 00:16:01,508\n有沒有喊停如果沒有喊停可不可以給我一個抱怨的啟程抱行政院各位委員報告12月那個時候已經完成所有意見的蒐集跟委員提報的各條文對照那現在大概經過了再一次的公聽會我們預計今年6月以前會有草案跟我們所有的團體包含民間團體跟偏鄉照顧的團體跟22縣市政府做一次會商\n\n42\n00:16:05,663 --> 00:16:27,501\n那6月的話那應該8月應該可以送院了吧這整體的政策我們會跟行政院做一個步調上節奏上跟22縣市整體因為裡面會涉及到偏鄉私資是跟部裡面直接比較有關涉及到經費的部分會跟地方政府有關這個給我們跟地方政府要會商一下謝謝希望教育部秉持行政中立啦照顧我們的教育環境謝謝謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9846\t19254\t好好 謝謝代理主席有請教育部鄭英耀部長好 請部長\n26362\t43507\t謝謝部長先前網路上流傳不實消息有說公費留學預算遭到立院動三影響學生權益教育部事後雖然是有用新聞稿來予以澄清但是動作其實也慢了好多拍造成了很多學生跟家長的恐慌\n44207\t65188\t加上事後並未對不實消息的來源進行相關的追查其實也沒有進一步的採取法律行動其實會讓很多人懷疑部長您所率領的教育部是不是有點累了接下來我想最主要的其實也就是所謂的教育資源的問題所以最先還是要來和部長關心一下您的預算\n66169\t85067\t部長本席是本會期負責排審教育部業務報告和預算解凍審查的召委可是到目前為止教文委員會並沒有收到任何一個教育部的解凍案就連送進院會一讀的案子也完全沒有\n85948\t107310\t想請教一下部長您知道解動案送進院會一讀教父委員會以後還需要經過複議期才能夠排審現在全國的師生家長都在關心教育部是不是有在積極準備預算解動案想請教部長請問教育部什麼時候可以將114年度的預算解動案送進立法院審查\n109947\t136628\t時間什麼時候可以我們解凍案的所有的所有我們目前都已經準備剛才我跟柯委員提到說因為統統的關係但是對第一線上所有的中小學的該補助的該所有的計畫的執行我們目前大概在因為考慮到 都夠是不是都前半年我們大概先補助同仁都點頭 完全足夠所以不解凍是不是沒有就是先\n137388\t160354\t是不是全部都夠嘛所以都夠不用解是嗎50%我們先撥50%需不需要解凍我們當然期待要解凍要解凍嘛對不對錢夠不夠用目前來講上半年是沒有問題的所以上半年都不用再解凍了是嗎6月31號以前不會送出是嗎我跟委員報告還是那個363裡面如果能夠你去636這一個部長兩個問題第一個請問什麼時候送進來\n166846\t181749\t是不是你現在在告訴我們6月31號6月30號以後才會送進來你現在就可以直接說我想這個部分我們跟主席日期什麼時候送進來第一個案子部長請回答我什麼時候送進來第一個案子因為您說已經準備好了\n182503\t201821\t因為還是跟委員報告636是不是是沒有就說就這一個目前扣除636的這個情況不變我們已經大概初步都已經好了不是部長我想您現在做了兩個很不太好的示範對全國家長私生是什麼呢\n202862\t212495\t您現在要做一些工作可是您不給同仁日期啊您不給同仁不給全國師生一個設定的日期喔有沒有設定\n213663\t234056\t有沒有設定日期我們只要能夠這一個有沒有設定日期對不起部長有沒有我們現在是在給全國做示範有沒有設定日期我們當然是希望能夠越早越早能夠如果學生這樣跟老師說老師我越早教越好老師說你什麼時候教我越早教越好這樣可以嗎部長可以嗎時間暫停我們讓部長回答\n241072\t264890\t我們時間暫停當然是因為有一些就是因為跟我們報告就是因為有一些我們還沒有辦法再來那我問部長你剛剛說636嘛請問學生可不可以跟老師說老師因為我知道後面可能還有其他的作業所以現在這個作業我沒有辦法教因為之後可能還有更多作業學生可不可以這樣部長請回答不過我想有一些這個情況確實是\n270290\t279756\t部長請回答學生可不可以這樣回答那要看還是要看這一個case by case所以學生可以回答老師說case by case喔\n280615\t308905\t就是我的case啊學生說我的case就是這樣啊我可以晚一點交因為部長是這樣示範的啊情境更清楚的時候我們當然才好來做回覆部長我想這個我們委員會送出這個預算其實18個凍結案都已經確定題目至今超過100天部長您是教育專家也希望可以跟學生老師做一個最好的示範希望不要用這些理由來呈現\n310385\t327114\t其實我們剛剛都只是在講一個這樣子的一個理念上的問題但我想我們也是要很科學很數據的希望能夠來說服您您現在的作為其實會讓別人誤會您是不作為的我們來看一下近五年教育部解凍的這個情形\n327794\t347208\t近五年整理可以看到潘文忠前部長領導之下的教育部在74件書面報告的情況之下可以在四月中以前將解凍報告送進立法院讓委員會五月初就能夠排審解凍案並且歷年來在凍結金額破億的情況之下\n347988\t372347\t幾乎都有在上半年委員會完成解凍案的排審也就是凍結金額越高教育部虛錢恐急就應該越快將解凍報告送立院排審只有唯一一次例外是113年度因為當時呢是相對金額比較低低於五千萬相信不是當時的范雲召委不願意替教育部排審而是合理懷疑可能是當年確實不缺這些錢所以解凍進度呢較往常慢\n377631\t407020\t那對此呢本席辦公室也特別去了解一下目前教育部預算解凍項目的執行情況從教育部提供的資料發現到三月底為止14個有被凍結預算的科目當中控除凍結以後可凍資的預算執行率最高只有40%我們也是有做功課的其中甚至有兩個預算科目的執行率是零啊也就是說即便有了預算教育部到三月底以前也還完全沒有開始支用\n407840\t415048\t從近五年的資料來看恐怕真的是不缺錢才是教育部不急著來解凍預算的主要原因是不是這樣\n416974\t445229\t我跟委員報告教育部是不是不缺錢基本上我謝謝我們教委會的委員對教育部經費的預算的一個支持那但是這一個凍結的這一個部分我們當然也希望他早一點凍這個解凍但是因為大宴當時的桶山裡邊這一個讓讓教育部在內部的一個預算上到目前還沒有一個比較明確的一個剛剛澳門已經提過了是\n445549\t463930\t學生不可能因為說後面還有別的功課我現在的功課就不教這是不make sense的所以我恐怕可能不只是太有錢可能也是太聽話請教一下院部長有沒有行政院的長官來說什麼時候之前不要送解凍案\n465063\t474330\t我想應該是這麼講說教育部也是行政院的團隊有沒有受到行政院的指示影響了解凍案送出的時間有還是沒有這是國會有還是沒有行政院只是告訴我們在這個636裡面還沒有一個基本的一個基調所以是不是行政院說636要完全完成了以後你們才送\n490151\t509265\t有沒有這樣說基本上並沒有做這樣的一個指示只是說希望能夠636能夠有一個明確的看怎麼樣因為行政院在過去都在提不一樣換句話說嘛實際上您已經證實了行政院說636如果沒有處理的話解冬案就不要處理嘛現在636那我請教部長636億的分配是誰來分配\n516603\t536222\t您知道嗎行政院會有一些行政院分配嘛所以行政院左手說636還沒分配右手說因為還沒分配所以你們可能沒辦法解凍這樣的邏輯合理嗎行政院基本上因為對114的預算裡面他有提大院來附議嘛所以這一些時間當然多少他耽擱了一些時間謝謝\n539025\t560994\t部長您真的辛苦了啦我想還是要請教一下剛剛我們都已經了解部長的態度了我們也理解行政院的態度啦那我們就以這個您個人的態度我們希望來請教您您如何看待立委以預算的煽動來監督行政機關的行為您覺得這是符不符合邏輯的\n562621\t575574\t我想我不能這樣來說明基本上預算就政府部門預算編列當然它依法行政嘛但是我們立委因為選民的一個授權所以給予監督我想這當然都是各盡其職但只是這一次後來譬如說我剛才特別提\n586204\t613557\t教委會我感謝委員對教育部業務這個預算上的一個支持但到大院以後它確實變了有一些不是我們一起的一個結果所以我們現在確實也產生了一些困擾事實上我想預算煽動不管在哪一個環節也都是我們立法委員的職責我想分享給教育部部長高等教育的部分其實我們提案凍結的金額\n614837\t642674\t最高的一个预算案呢其实是民进党委员的提案高等教育行政以及督导一共编列243.8亿有一名委员的一个案子就冻结了十分之一超过24亿最后有幸在万美林召委的积极协调之下以及所有委员的配合之下该委员没有坚持要冻结24亿而是以委员会共事的方式来冻结该项科目3000万元并且以书面报告方式解冻\n643594\t665911\t而中等教育的部分一共編列了20.3億元教育委員會的委員一共提出15個預算案其中六位民進黨的委員們提案總共凍結4.76億超過整個科目預算五分之一如果依照總統府的標準來看民進黨委員們是不是也算傷害中等教育未遂\n666371\t683103\t因為有我們的總統府副秘書長上節目說只要有提案的都算是未遂就算他沒有通過部長您覺得動山預算要求行政部門改善既有的政策跟措施對於行政部門是一種傷害嗎還是您剛剛所說其實就是我們負責而已\n689261\t716588\t各位委員報告我想這個不管哪一個政黨對教育部的預算提出了一個凍結都是希望教育部在整個政策的推動有一個更詳細的更妥適的一些思考那也許有一些內部或者有一些呈現的資料委員並不清楚那我們來補充說明好 作為部長您覺得如果提案最後就是算是協調完成沒有凍結或刪除這算不算一種凍三未遂啊\n718257\t725601\t你覺得這樣的說法好嗎我不是這方面的專家我不知道怎麼樣來回答我想這個語文的事情希望大家還是客觀的來看待潘文中前部長領導的教育部確實很努力的來完成預算煽動其實我對政務部長您的期待也很深希望您能夠傾訴於蘭在政務部長領導之下可以給同仁一個明確的時間能不能更合理的來送出解凍案讓我們的各級\n745610\t772470\t單位都能夠有更充足的預算來使用來滿足我們的所謂的師生的需要最後幾個小問題想請教就是AI的部分就是我們現在在飲食習慣上面其實有說什麼能吃什麼不能吃但是現在我們的教育部有很明確的指令說不可以用特定的AI的服務但我想請教一下部長有沒有說建議學生使用哪一些AI服務有還是沒有\n777703\t804666\t不好意思那個代理主席我借用幾分我很快加速是跟委員報告就是目前的話就是如果是中小學的部分有沒有正面表列清單現在有負面清單嘛對有沒有正面表列清單跟委員報告就是目前因為根據UNESCO是希望12歲以下盡量用教育的AI所以我們目前就是有針對教育部有一度這樣子的一個教育\n805406\t826584\t我們沒有分我們是公立學校我們還有高等教育所以12歲以上就不管他們了12歲以下就是不要用12歲以上隨便亂用其實跟委員報告這個部分我們有在研擬一些相關的規範事實上我們看到教學手冊AI的教學協作手冊已經出到3.0了學生版的手冊到1.0都還不見終於請問何時可以推出學生版的AI使用手冊什麼時候\n834921\t857600\t跟委員報告 這個我們回去這跟預算沒有關係嘛對 是 這個部分我們回去來評估一下時間 趕快告訴我們好不好什麼時候可以抓住一個時間來不是說你什麼時候要提出 什麼時候抓一個時間跟委員報告 這個因為我們還要召集專家是不是可以給我們 就是到就是下學期開學之前 可以嗎\n859526\t875901\t盡快吧盡快好不好盡快這個我們辦公室在跟您聯絡最後我想一樣科技這個視訊能不能給一些離島高中用視訊的方式來面試因為接下來這個考技南北奔波加上住宿費其實這是不分黨派所以我們都想要來幫家長詢問一下\n879904\t891455\t有沒有這個視訊應考的這種可能性謝謝委員提醒我們目前確實就有提供鼓勵各大學在地方上區域有現在是可以視訊應考的是嗎視訊面試是離島地區的離島地區就可以了\n895359\t908245\t好 太好了 相關規定也希望可以多加宣傳 我們一起來宣傳那因為我們課政委員是戴昭偉 他之前有排冰箱教育條例但是現在已經過了已經將近快要一年了 當時有提到說這個臧料次長也在這邊有提到說半年內提出院版草案 半年加起來應該是去年12月\n918429\t932218\t這個是不是胎死腹中啊我有聽說已經喊停了如果已經喊停的話剛好我們柯之恩委員也在這邊是不是可以給我們一個答覆我想這不只是柯之恩委員啦我想跨黨派的委員都很在意偏鄉教育條例這是我最後一個問題\n938908\t961508\t有沒有喊停 如果沒有喊停可不可以給我一個抱怨的啟程抱行政院各位委員報告12月那個時候已經完成所有意見的蒐集跟委員提報的各條文對照那現在大概經過了再一次的公聽會我們預計今年6月以前會有草案跟我們所有的團體包含民間團體跟偏鄉照顧的團體跟22縣市政府做一次會商\n965663\t987501\t那6月的話那應該8月應該可以送院了吧這整體的政策我們會跟行政院做一個步調上節奏上跟22縣市整體因為裡面會涉及到偏鄉私資是跟部裡面直接比較有關涉及到經費的部分會跟地方政府有關這個給我們跟地方政府要會商一下謝謝希望教育部秉持行政中立啦照顧我們的教育環境謝謝謝謝\n","txt":"好好 謝謝代理主席有請教育部鄭英耀部長好 請部長\n謝謝部長先前網路上流傳不實消息有說公費留學預算遭到立院動三影響學生權益教育部事後雖然是有用新聞稿來予以澄清但是動作其實也慢了好多拍造成了很多學生跟家長的恐慌\n加上事後並未對不實消息的來源進行相關的追查其實也沒有進一步的採取法律行動其實會讓很多人懷疑部長您所率領的教育部是不是有點累了接下來我想最主要的其實也就是所謂的教育資源的問題所以最先還是要來和部長關心一下您的預算\n部長本席是本會期負責排審教育部業務報告和預算解凍審查的召委可是到目前為止教文委員會並沒有收到任何一個教育部的解凍案就連送進院會一讀的案子也完全沒有\n想請教一下部長您知道解動案送進院會一讀教父委員會以後還需要經過複議期才能夠排審現在全國的師生家長都在關心教育部是不是有在積極準備預算解動案想請教部長請問教育部什麼時候可以將114年度的預算解動案送進立法院審查\n時間什麼時候可以我們解凍案的所有的所有我們目前都已經準備剛才我跟柯委員提到說因為統統的關係但是對第一線上所有的中小學的該補助的該所有的計畫的執行我們目前大概在因為考慮到 都夠是不是都前半年我們大概先補助同仁都點頭 完全足夠所以不解凍是不是沒有就是先\n是不是全部都夠嘛所以都夠不用解是嗎50%我們先撥50%需不需要解凍我們當然期待要解凍要解凍嘛對不對錢夠不夠用目前來講上半年是沒有問題的所以上半年都不用再解凍了是嗎6月31號以前不會送出是嗎我跟委員報告還是那個363裡面如果能夠你去636這一個部長兩個問題第一個請問什麼時候送進來\n是不是你現在在告訴我們6月31號6月30號以後才會送進來你現在就可以直接說我想這個部分我們跟主席日期什麼時候送進來第一個案子部長請回答我什麼時候送進來第一個案子因為您說已經準備好了\n因為還是跟委員報告636是不是是沒有就說就這一個目前扣除636的這個情況不變我們已經大概初步都已經好了不是部長我想您現在做了兩個很不太好的示範對全國家長私生是什麼呢\n您現在要做一些工作可是您不給同仁日期啊您不給同仁不給全國師生一個設定的日期喔有沒有設定\n有沒有設定日期我們只要能夠這一個有沒有設定日期對不起部長有沒有我們現在是在給全國做示範有沒有設定日期我們當然是希望能夠越早越早能夠如果學生這樣跟老師說老師我越早教越好老師說你什麼時候教我越早教越好這樣可以嗎部長可以嗎時間暫停我們讓部長回答\n我們時間暫停當然是因為有一些就是因為跟我們報告就是因為有一些我們還沒有辦法再來那我問部長你剛剛說636嘛請問學生可不可以跟老師說老師因為我知道後面可能還有其他的作業所以現在這個作業我沒有辦法教因為之後可能還有更多作業學生可不可以這樣部長請回答不過我想有一些這個情況確實是\n部長請回答學生可不可以這樣回答那要看還是要看這一個case by case所以學生可以回答老師說case by case喔\n就是我的case啊學生說我的case就是這樣啊我可以晚一點交因為部長是這樣示範的啊情境更清楚的時候我們當然才好來做回覆部長我想這個我們委員會送出這個預算其實18個凍結案都已經確定題目至今超過100天部長您是教育專家也希望可以跟學生老師做一個最好的示範希望不要用這些理由來呈現\n其實我們剛剛都只是在講一個這樣子的一個理念上的問題但我想我們也是要很科學很數據的希望能夠來說服您您現在的作為其實會讓別人誤會您是不作為的我們來看一下近五年教育部解凍的這個情形\n近五年整理可以看到潘文忠前部長領導之下的教育部在74件書面報告的情況之下可以在四月中以前將解凍報告送進立法院讓委員會五月初就能夠排審解凍案並且歷年來在凍結金額破億的情況之下\n幾乎都有在上半年委員會完成解凍案的排審也就是凍結金額越高教育部虛錢恐急就應該越快將解凍報告送立院排審只有唯一一次例外是113年度因為當時呢是相對金額比較低低於五千萬相信不是當時的范雲召委不願意替教育部排審而是合理懷疑可能是當年確實不缺這些錢所以解凍進度呢較往常慢\n那對此呢本席辦公室也特別去了解一下目前教育部預算解凍項目的執行情況從教育部提供的資料發現到三月底為止14個有被凍結預算的科目當中控除凍結以後可凍資的預算執行率最高只有40%我們也是有做功課的其中甚至有兩個預算科目的執行率是零啊也就是說即便有了預算教育部到三月底以前也還完全沒有開始支用\n從近五年的資料來看恐怕真的是不缺錢才是教育部不急著來解凍預算的主要原因是不是這樣\n我跟委員報告教育部是不是不缺錢基本上我謝謝我們教委會的委員對教育部經費的預算的一個支持那但是這一個凍結的這一個部分我們當然也希望他早一點凍這個解凍但是因為大宴當時的桶山裡邊這一個讓讓教育部在內部的一個預算上到目前還沒有一個比較明確的一個剛剛澳門已經提過了是\n學生不可能因為說後面還有別的功課我現在的功課就不教這是不make sense的所以我恐怕可能不只是太有錢可能也是太聽話請教一下院部長有沒有行政院的長官來說什麼時候之前不要送解凍案\n我想應該是這麼講說教育部也是行政院的團隊有沒有受到行政院的指示影響了解凍案送出的時間有還是沒有這是國會有還是沒有行政院只是告訴我們在這個636裡面還沒有一個基本的一個基調所以是不是行政院說636要完全完成了以後你們才送\n有沒有這樣說基本上並沒有做這樣的一個指示只是說希望能夠636能夠有一個明確的看怎麼樣因為行政院在過去都在提不一樣換句話說嘛實際上您已經證實了行政院說636如果沒有處理的話解冬案就不要處理嘛現在636那我請教部長636億的分配是誰來分配\n您知道嗎行政院會有一些行政院分配嘛所以行政院左手說636還沒分配右手說因為還沒分配所以你們可能沒辦法解凍這樣的邏輯合理嗎行政院基本上因為對114的預算裡面他有提大院來附議嘛所以這一些時間當然多少他耽擱了一些時間謝謝\n部長您真的辛苦了啦我想還是要請教一下剛剛我們都已經了解部長的態度了我們也理解行政院的態度啦那我們就以這個您個人的態度我們希望來請教您您如何看待立委以預算的煽動來監督行政機關的行為您覺得這是符不符合邏輯的\n我想我不能這樣來說明基本上預算就政府部門預算編列當然它依法行政嘛但是我們立委因為選民的一個授權所以給予監督我想這當然都是各盡其職但只是這一次後來譬如說我剛才特別提\n教委會我感謝委員對教育部業務這個預算上的一個支持但到大院以後它確實變了有一些不是我們一起的一個結果所以我們現在確實也產生了一些困擾事實上我想預算煽動不管在哪一個環節也都是我們立法委員的職責我想分享給教育部部長高等教育的部分其實我們提案凍結的金額\n最高的一个预算案呢其实是民进党委员的提案高等教育行政以及督导一共编列243.8亿有一名委员的一个案子就冻结了十分之一超过24亿最后有幸在万美林召委的积极协调之下以及所有委员的配合之下该委员没有坚持要冻结24亿而是以委员会共事的方式来冻结该项科目3000万元并且以书面报告方式解冻\n而中等教育的部分一共編列了20.3億元教育委員會的委員一共提出15個預算案其中六位民進黨的委員們提案總共凍結4.76億超過整個科目預算五分之一如果依照總統府的標準來看民進黨委員們是不是也算傷害中等教育未遂\n因為有我們的總統府副秘書長上節目說只要有提案的都算是未遂就算他沒有通過部長您覺得動山預算要求行政部門改善既有的政策跟措施對於行政部門是一種傷害嗎還是您剛剛所說其實就是我們負責而已\n各位委員報告我想這個不管哪一個政黨對教育部的預算提出了一個凍結都是希望教育部在整個政策的推動有一個更詳細的更妥適的一些思考那也許有一些內部或者有一些呈現的資料委員並不清楚那我們來補充說明好 作為部長您覺得如果提案最後就是算是協調完成沒有凍結或刪除這算不算一種凍三未遂啊\n你覺得這樣的說法好嗎我不是這方面的專家我不知道怎麼樣來回答我想這個語文的事情希望大家還是客觀的來看待潘文中前部長領導的教育部確實很努力的來完成預算煽動其實我對政務部長您的期待也很深希望您能夠傾訴於蘭在政務部長領導之下可以給同仁一個明確的時間能不能更合理的來送出解凍案讓我們的各級\n單位都能夠有更充足的預算來使用來滿足我們的所謂的師生的需要最後幾個小問題想請教就是AI的部分就是我們現在在飲食習慣上面其實有說什麼能吃什麼不能吃但是現在我們的教育部有很明確的指令說不可以用特定的AI的服務但我想請教一下部長有沒有說建議學生使用哪一些AI服務有還是沒有\n不好意思那個代理主席我借用幾分我很快加速是跟委員報告就是目前的話就是如果是中小學的部分有沒有正面表列清單現在有負面清單嘛對有沒有正面表列清單跟委員報告就是目前因為根據UNESCO是希望12歲以下盡量用教育的AI所以我們目前就是有針對教育部有一度這樣子的一個教育\n我們沒有分我們是公立學校我們還有高等教育所以12歲以上就不管他們了12歲以下就是不要用12歲以上隨便亂用其實跟委員報告這個部分我們有在研擬一些相關的規範事實上我們看到教學手冊AI的教學協作手冊已經出到3.0了學生版的手冊到1.0都還不見終於請問何時可以推出學生版的AI使用手冊什麼時候\n跟委員報告 這個我們回去這跟預算沒有關係嘛對 是 這個部分我們回去來評估一下時間 趕快告訴我們好不好什麼時候可以抓住一個時間來不是說你什麼時候要提出 什麼時候抓一個時間跟委員報告 這個因為我們還要召集專家是不是可以給我們 就是到就是下學期開學之前 可以嗎\n盡快吧盡快好不好盡快這個我們辦公室在跟您聯絡最後我想一樣科技這個視訊能不能給一些離島高中用視訊的方式來面試因為接下來這個考技南北奔波加上住宿費其實這是不分黨派所以我們都想要來幫家長詢問一下\n有沒有這個視訊應考的這種可能性謝謝委員提醒我們目前確實就有提供鼓勵各大學在地方上區域有現在是可以視訊應考的是嗎視訊面試是離島地區的離島地區就可以了\n好 太好了 相關規定也希望可以多加宣傳 我們一起來宣傳那因為我們課政委員是戴昭偉 他之前有排冰箱教育條例但是現在已經過了已經將近快要一年了 當時有提到說這個臧料次長也在這邊有提到說半年內提出院版草案 半年加起來應該是去年12月\n這個是不是胎死腹中啊我有聽說已經喊停了如果已經喊停的話剛好我們柯之恩委員也在這邊是不是可以給我們一個答覆我想這不只是柯之恩委員啦我想跨黨派的委員都很在意偏鄉教育條例這是我最後一個問題\n有沒有喊停 如果沒有喊停可不可以給我一個抱怨的啟程抱行政院各位委員報告12月那個時候已經完成所有意見的蒐集跟委員提報的各條文對照那現在大概經過了再一次的公聽會我們預計今年6月以前會有草案跟我們所有的團體包含民間團體跟偏鄉照顧的團體跟22縣市政府做一次會商\n那6月的話那應該8月應該可以送院了吧這整體的政策我們會跟行政院做一個步調上節奏上跟22縣市整體因為裡面會涉及到偏鄉私資是跟部裡面直接比較有關涉及到經費的部分會跟地方政府有關這個給我們跟地方政府要會商一下謝謝希望教育部秉持行政中立啦照顧我們的教育環境謝謝謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.846 --> 00:19.254\n好好謝謝代理主席有請教育部鄭英耀部長好請部長\n\n00:26.362 --> 00:43.507\n謝謝部長先前網路上流傳不實消息有說公費留學預算遭到立院動三影響學生權益教育部事後雖然是有用新聞稿來予以澄清但是動作其實也慢了好多拍造成了很多學生跟家長的恐慌\n\n00:44.207 --> 01:05.188\n加上事後並未對不實消息的來源進行相關的追查其實也沒有進一步的採取法律行動其實會讓很多人懷疑部長您所率領的教育部是不是有點累了接下來我想最主要的其實也就是所謂的教育資源的問題所以最先還是要來和部長關心一下您的預算\n\n01:06.169 --> 01:25.067\n部長本席是本會期負責排審教育部業務報告和預算解凍審查的召委可是到目前為止教文委員會並沒有收到任何一個教育部的解凍案就連送進院會一讀的案子也完全沒有\n\n01:25.948 --> 01:47.310\n想請教一下部長您知道解動案送進院會一讀教父委員會以後還需要經過複議期才能夠排審現在全國的師生家長都在關心教育部是不是有在積極準備預算解動案想請教部長請問教育部什麼時候可以將114年度的預算解動案送進立法院審查\n\n01:49.947 --> 02:16.628\n時間什麼時候可以我們解凍案的所有的所有我們目前都已經準備剛才我跟柯委員提到說因為統統的關係但是對第一線上所有的中小學的該補助的該所有的計畫的執行我們目前大概在因為考慮到都夠是不是都前半年我們大概先補助同仁都點頭完全足夠所以不解凍是不是沒有就是先\n\n02:17.388 --> 02:40.354\n是不是全部都夠嘛所以都夠不用解是嗎50%我們先撥50%需不需要解凍我們當然期待要解凍要解凍嘛對不對錢夠不夠用目前來講上半年是沒有問題的所以上半年都不用再解凍了是嗎6月31號以前不會送出是嗎我跟委員報告還是那個363裡面如果能夠你去636這一個部長兩個問題第一個請問什麼時候送進來\n\n02:46.846 --> 03:01.749\n是不是你現在在告訴我們6月31號6月30號以後才會送進來你現在就可以直接說我想這個部分我們跟主席日期什麼時候送進來第一個案子部長請回答我什麼時候送進來第一個案子因為您說已經準備好了\n\n03:02.503 --> 03:21.821\n因為還是跟委員報告636是不是是沒有就說就這一個目前扣除636的這個情況不變我們已經大概初步都已經好了不是部長我想您現在做了兩個很不太好的示範對全國家長私生是什麼呢\n\n03:22.862 --> 03:32.495\n您現在要做一些工作可是您不給同仁日期啊您不給同仁不給全國師生一個設定的日期喔有沒有設定\n\n03:33.663 --> 03:54.056\n有沒有設定日期我們只要能夠這一個有沒有設定日期對不起部長有沒有我們現在是在給全國做示範有沒有設定日期我們當然是希望能夠越早越早能夠如果學生這樣跟老師說老師我越早教越好老師說你什麼時候教我越早教越好這樣可以嗎部長可以嗎時間暫停我們讓部長回答\n\n04:01.072 --> 04:24.890\n我們時間暫停當然是因為有一些就是因為跟我們報告就是因為有一些我們還沒有辦法再來那我問部長你剛剛說636嘛請問學生可不可以跟老師說老師因為我知道後面可能還有其他的作業所以現在這個作業我沒有辦法教因為之後可能還有更多作業學生可不可以這樣部長請回答不過我想有一些這個情況確實是\n\n04:30.290 --> 04:39.756\n部長請回答學生可不可以這樣回答那要看還是要看這一個casebycase所以學生可以回答老師說casebycase喔\n\n04:40.615 --> 05:08.905\n就是我的case啊學生說我的case就是這樣啊我可以晚一點交因為部長是這樣示範的啊情境更清楚的時候我們當然才好來做回覆部長我想這個我們委員會送出這個預算其實18個凍結案都已經確定題目至今超過100天部長您是教育專家也希望可以跟學生老師做一個最好的示範希望不要用這些理由來呈現\n\n05:10.385 --> 05:27.114\n其實我們剛剛都只是在講一個這樣子的一個理念上的問題但我想我們也是要很科學很數據的希望能夠來說服您您現在的作為其實會讓別人誤會您是不作為的我們來看一下近五年教育部解凍的這個情形\n\n05:27.794 --> 05:47.208\n近五年整理可以看到潘文忠前部長領導之下的教育部在74件書面報告的情況之下可以在四月中以前將解凍報告送進立法院讓委員會五月初就能夠排審解凍案並且歷年來在凍結金額破億的情況之下\n\n05:47.988 --> 06:12.347\n幾乎都有在上半年委員會完成解凍案的排審也就是凍結金額越高教育部虛錢恐急就應該越快將解凍報告送立院排審只有唯一一次例外是113年度因為當時呢是相對金額比較低低於五千萬相信不是當時的范雲召委不願意替教育部排審而是合理懷疑可能是當年確實不缺這些錢所以解凍進度呢較往常慢\n\n06:17.631 --> 06:47.020\n那對此呢本席辦公室也特別去了解一下目前教育部預算解凍項目的執行情況從教育部提供的資料發現到三月底為止14個有被凍結預算的科目當中控除凍結以後可凍資的預算執行率最高只有40%我們也是有做功課的其中甚至有兩個預算科目的執行率是零啊也就是說即便有了預算教育部到三月底以前也還完全沒有開始支用\n\n06:47.840 --> 06:55.048\n從近五年的資料來看恐怕真的是不缺錢才是教育部不急著來解凍預算的主要原因是不是這樣\n\n06:56.974 --> 07:25.229\n我跟委員報告教育部是不是不缺錢基本上我謝謝我們教委會的委員對教育部經費的預算的一個支持那但是這一個凍結的這一個部分我們當然也希望他早一點凍這個解凍但是因為大宴當時的桶山裡邊這一個讓讓教育部在內部的一個預算上到目前還沒有一個比較明確的一個剛剛澳門已經提過了是\n\n07:25.549 --> 07:43.930\n學生不可能因為說後面還有別的功課我現在的功課就不教這是不makesense的所以我恐怕可能不只是太有錢可能也是太聽話請教一下院部長有沒有行政院的長官來說什麼時候之前不要送解凍案\n\n07:45.063 --> 07:54.330\n我想應該是這麼講說教育部也是行政院的團隊有沒有受到行政院的指示影響了解凍案送出的時間有還是沒有這是國會有還是沒有行政院只是告訴我們在這個636裡面還沒有一個基本的一個基調所以是不是行政院說636要完全完成了以後你們才送\n\n08:10.151 --> 08:29.265\n有沒有這樣說基本上並沒有做這樣的一個指示只是說希望能夠636能夠有一個明確的看怎麼樣因為行政院在過去都在提不一樣換句話說嘛實際上您已經證實了行政院說636如果沒有處理的話解冬案就不要處理嘛現在636那我請教部長636億的分配是誰來分配\n\n08:36.603 --> 08:56.222\n您知道嗎行政院會有一些行政院分配嘛所以行政院左手說636還沒分配右手說因為還沒分配所以你們可能沒辦法解凍這樣的邏輯合理嗎行政院基本上因為對114的預算裡面他有提大院來附議嘛所以這一些時間當然多少他耽擱了一些時間謝謝\n\n08:59.025 --> 09:20.994\n部長您真的辛苦了啦我想還是要請教一下剛剛我們都已經了解部長的態度了我們也理解行政院的態度啦那我們就以這個您個人的態度我們希望來請教您您如何看待立委以預算的煽動來監督行政機關的行為您覺得這是符不符合邏輯的\n\n09:22.621 --> 09:35.574\n我想我不能這樣來說明基本上預算就政府部門預算編列當然它依法行政嘛但是我們立委因為選民的一個授權所以給予監督我想這當然都是各盡其職但只是這一次後來譬如說我剛才特別提\n\n09:46.204 --> 10:13.557\n教委會我感謝委員對教育部業務這個預算上的一個支持但到大院以後它確實變了有一些不是我們一起的一個結果所以我們現在確實也產生了一些困擾事實上我想預算煽動不管在哪一個環節也都是我們立法委員的職責我想分享給教育部部長高等教育的部分其實我們提案凍結的金額\n\n10:14.837 --> 10:42.674\n最高的一个预算案呢其实是民进党委员的提案高等教育行政以及督导一共编列243.8亿有一名委员的一个案子就冻结了十分之一超过24亿最后有幸在万美林召委的积极协调之下以及所有委员的配合之下该委员没有坚持要冻结24亿而是以委员会共事的方式来冻结该项科目3000万元并且以书面报告方式解冻\n\n10:43.594 --> 11:05.911\n而中等教育的部分一共編列了20.3億元教育委員會的委員一共提出15個預算案其中六位民進黨的委員們提案總共凍結4.76億超過整個科目預算五分之一如果依照總統府的標準來看民進黨委員們是不是也算傷害中等教育未遂\n\n11:06.371 --> 11:23.103\n因為有我們的總統府副秘書長上節目說只要有提案的都算是未遂就算他沒有通過部長您覺得動山預算要求行政部門改善既有的政策跟措施對於行政部門是一種傷害嗎還是您剛剛所說其實就是我們負責而已\n\n11:29.261 --> 11:56.588\n各位委員報告我想這個不管哪一個政黨對教育部的預算提出了一個凍結都是希望教育部在整個政策的推動有一個更詳細的更妥適的一些思考那也許有一些內部或者有一些呈現的資料委員並不清楚那我們來補充說明好作為部長您覺得如果提案最後就是算是協調完成沒有凍結或刪除這算不算一種凍三未遂啊\n\n11:58.257 --> 12:05.601\n你覺得這樣的說法好嗎我不是這方面的專家我不知道怎麼樣來回答我想這個語文的事情希望大家還是客觀的來看待潘文中前部長領導的教育部確實很努力的來完成預算煽動其實我對政務部長您的期待也很深希望您能夠傾訴於蘭在政務部長領導之下可以給同仁一個明確的時間能不能更合理的來送出解凍案讓我們的各級\n\n12:25.610 --> 12:52.470\n單位都能夠有更充足的預算來使用來滿足我們的所謂的師生的需要最後幾個小問題想請教就是AI的部分就是我們現在在飲食習慣上面其實有說什麼能吃什麼不能吃但是現在我們的教育部有很明確的指令說不可以用特定的AI的服務但我想請教一下部長有沒有說建議學生使用哪一些AI服務有還是沒有\n\n12:57.703 --> 13:24.666\n不好意思那個代理主席我借用幾分我很快加速是跟委員報告就是目前的話就是如果是中小學的部分有沒有正面表列清單現在有負面清單嘛對有沒有正面表列清單跟委員報告就是目前因為根據UNESCO是希望12歲以下盡量用教育的AI所以我們目前就是有針對教育部有一度這樣子的一個教育\n\n13:25.406 --> 13:46.584\n我們沒有分我們是公立學校我們還有高等教育所以12歲以上就不管他們了12歲以下就是不要用12歲以上隨便亂用其實跟委員報告這個部分我們有在研擬一些相關的規範事實上我們看到教學手冊AI的教學協作手冊已經出到3.0了學生版的手冊到1.0都還不見終於請問何時可以推出學生版的AI使用手冊什麼時候\n\n13:54.921 --> 14:17.600\n跟委員報告這個我們回去這跟預算沒有關係嘛對是這個部分我們回去來評估一下時間趕快告訴我們好不好什麼時候可以抓住一個時間來不是說你什麼時候要提出什麼時候抓一個時間跟委員報告這個因為我們還要召集專家是不是可以給我們就是到就是下學期開學之前可以嗎\n\n14:19.526 --> 14:35.901\n盡快吧盡快好不好盡快這個我們辦公室在跟您聯絡最後我想一樣科技這個視訊能不能給一些離島高中用視訊的方式來面試因為接下來這個考技南北奔波加上住宿費其實這是不分黨派所以我們都想要來幫家長詢問一下\n\n14:39.904 --> 14:51.455\n有沒有這個視訊應考的這種可能性謝謝委員提醒我們目前確實就有提供鼓勵各大學在地方上區域有現在是可以視訊應考的是嗎視訊面試是離島地區的離島地區就可以了\n\n14:55.359 --> 15:08.245\n好太好了相關規定也希望可以多加宣傳我們一起來宣傳那因為我們課政委員是戴昭偉他之前有排冰箱教育條例但是現在已經過了已經將近快要一年了當時有提到說這個臧料次長也在這邊有提到說半年內提出院版草案半年加起來應該是去年12月\n\n15:18.429 --> 15:32.218\n這個是不是胎死腹中啊我有聽說已經喊停了如果已經喊停的話剛好我們柯之恩委員也在這邊是不是可以給我們一個答覆我想這不只是柯之恩委員啦我想跨黨派的委員都很在意偏鄉教育條例這是我最後一個問題\n\n15:38.908 --> 16:01.508\n有沒有喊停如果沒有喊停可不可以給我一個抱怨的啟程抱行政院各位委員報告12月那個時候已經完成所有意見的蒐集跟委員提報的各條文對照那現在大概經過了再一次的公聽會我們預計今年6月以前會有草案跟我們所有的團體包含民間團體跟偏鄉照顧的團體跟22縣市政府做一次會商\n\n16:05.663 --> 16:27.501\n那6月的話那應該8月應該可以送院了吧這整體的政策我們會跟行政院做一個步調上節奏上跟22縣市整體因為裡面會涉及到偏鄉私資是跟部裡面直接比較有關涉及到經費的部分會跟地方政府有關這個給我們跟地方政府要會商一下謝謝希望教育部秉持行政中立啦照顧我們的教育環境謝謝謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.846,"end":19.254,"text":"好好 謝謝代理主席有請教育部鄭英耀部長好 請部長"},{"start":26.362,"end":43.507,"text":"謝謝部長先前網路上流傳不實消息有說公費留學預算遭到立院動三影響學生權益教育部事後雖然是有用新聞稿來予以澄清但是動作其實也慢了好多拍造成了很多學生跟家長的恐慌"},{"start":44.207,"end":65.188,"text":"加上事後並未對不實消息的來源進行相關的追查其實也沒有進一步的採取法律行動其實會讓很多人懷疑部長您所率領的教育部是不是有點累了接下來我想最主要的其實也就是所謂的教育資源的問題所以最先還是要來和部長關心一下您的預算"},{"start":66.169,"end":85.067,"text":"部長本席是本會期負責排審教育部業務報告和預算解凍審查的召委可是到目前為止教文委員會並沒有收到任何一個教育部的解凍案就連送進院會一讀的案子也完全沒有"},{"start":85.948,"end":107.31,"text":"想請教一下部長您知道解動案送進院會一讀教父委員會以後還需要經過複議期才能夠排審現在全國的師生家長都在關心教育部是不是有在積極準備預算解動案想請教部長請問教育部什麼時候可以將114年度的預算解動案送進立法院審查"},{"start":109.947,"end":136.628,"text":"時間什麼時候可以我們解凍案的所有的所有我們目前都已經準備剛才我跟柯委員提到說因為統統的關係但是對第一線上所有的中小學的該補助的該所有的計畫的執行我們目前大概在因為考慮到 都夠是不是都前半年我們大概先補助同仁都點頭 完全足夠所以不解凍是不是沒有就是先"},{"start":137.388,"end":160.354,"text":"是不是全部都夠嘛所以都夠不用解是嗎50%我們先撥50%需不需要解凍我們當然期待要解凍要解凍嘛對不對錢夠不夠用目前來講上半年是沒有問題的所以上半年都不用再解凍了是嗎6月31號以前不會送出是嗎我跟委員報告還是那個363裡面如果能夠你去636這一個部長兩個問題第一個請問什麼時候送進來"},{"start":166.846,"end":181.749,"text":"是不是你現在在告訴我們6月31號6月30號以後才會送進來你現在就可以直接說我想這個部分我們跟主席日期什麼時候送進來第一個案子部長請回答我什麼時候送進來第一個案子因為您說已經準備好了"},{"start":182.503,"end":201.821,"text":"因為還是跟委員報告636是不是是沒有就說就這一個目前扣除636的這個情況不變我們已經大概初步都已經好了不是部長我想您現在做了兩個很不太好的示範對全國家長私生是什麼呢"},{"start":202.862,"end":212.495,"text":"您現在要做一些工作可是您不給同仁日期啊您不給同仁不給全國師生一個設定的日期喔有沒有設定"},{"start":213.663,"end":234.056,"text":"有沒有設定日期我們只要能夠這一個有沒有設定日期對不起部長有沒有我們現在是在給全國做示範有沒有設定日期我們當然是希望能夠越早越早能夠如果學生這樣跟老師說老師我越早教越好老師說你什麼時候教我越早教越好這樣可以嗎部長可以嗎時間暫停我們讓部長回答"},{"start":241.072,"end":264.89,"text":"我們時間暫停當然是因為有一些就是因為跟我們報告就是因為有一些我們還沒有辦法再來那我問部長你剛剛說636嘛請問學生可不可以跟老師說老師因為我知道後面可能還有其他的作業所以現在這個作業我沒有辦法教因為之後可能還有更多作業學生可不可以這樣部長請回答不過我想有一些這個情況確實是"},{"start":270.29,"end":279.756,"text":"部長請回答學生可不可以這樣回答那要看還是要看這一個case by case所以學生可以回答老師說case by case喔"},{"start":280.615,"end":308.905,"text":"就是我的case啊學生說我的case就是這樣啊我可以晚一點交因為部長是這樣示範的啊情境更清楚的時候我們當然才好來做回覆部長我想這個我們委員會送出這個預算其實18個凍結案都已經確定題目至今超過100天部長您是教育專家也希望可以跟學生老師做一個最好的示範希望不要用這些理由來呈現"},{"start":310.385,"end":327.114,"text":"其實我們剛剛都只是在講一個這樣子的一個理念上的問題但我想我們也是要很科學很數據的希望能夠來說服您您現在的作為其實會讓別人誤會您是不作為的我們來看一下近五年教育部解凍的這個情形"},{"start":327.794,"end":347.208,"text":"近五年整理可以看到潘文忠前部長領導之下的教育部在74件書面報告的情況之下可以在四月中以前將解凍報告送進立法院讓委員會五月初就能夠排審解凍案並且歷年來在凍結金額破億的情況之下"},{"start":347.988,"end":372.347,"text":"幾乎都有在上半年委員會完成解凍案的排審也就是凍結金額越高教育部虛錢恐急就應該越快將解凍報告送立院排審只有唯一一次例外是113年度因為當時呢是相對金額比較低低於五千萬相信不是當時的范雲召委不願意替教育部排審而是合理懷疑可能是當年確實不缺這些錢所以解凍進度呢較往常慢"},{"start":377.631,"end":407.02,"text":"那對此呢本席辦公室也特別去了解一下目前教育部預算解凍項目的執行情況從教育部提供的資料發現到三月底為止14個有被凍結預算的科目當中控除凍結以後可凍資的預算執行率最高只有40%我們也是有做功課的其中甚至有兩個預算科目的執行率是零啊也就是說即便有了預算教育部到三月底以前也還完全沒有開始支用"},{"start":407.84,"end":415.048,"text":"從近五年的資料來看恐怕真的是不缺錢才是教育部不急著來解凍預算的主要原因是不是這樣"},{"start":416.974,"end":445.229,"text":"我跟委員報告教育部是不是不缺錢基本上我謝謝我們教委會的委員對教育部經費的預算的一個支持那但是這一個凍結的這一個部分我們當然也希望他早一點凍這個解凍但是因為大宴當時的桶山裡邊這一個讓讓教育部在內部的一個預算上到目前還沒有一個比較明確的一個剛剛澳門已經提過了是"},{"start":445.549,"end":463.93,"text":"學生不可能因為說後面還有別的功課我現在的功課就不教這是不make sense的所以我恐怕可能不只是太有錢可能也是太聽話請教一下院部長有沒有行政院的長官來說什麼時候之前不要送解凍案"},{"start":465.063,"end":474.33,"text":"我想應該是這麼講說教育部也是行政院的團隊有沒有受到行政院的指示影響了解凍案送出的時間有還是沒有這是國會有還是沒有行政院只是告訴我們在這個636裡面還沒有一個基本的一個基調所以是不是行政院說636要完全完成了以後你們才送"},{"start":490.151,"end":509.265,"text":"有沒有這樣說基本上並沒有做這樣的一個指示只是說希望能夠636能夠有一個明確的看怎麼樣因為行政院在過去都在提不一樣換句話說嘛實際上您已經證實了行政院說636如果沒有處理的話解冬案就不要處理嘛現在636那我請教部長636億的分配是誰來分配"},{"start":516.603,"end":536.222,"text":"您知道嗎行政院會有一些行政院分配嘛所以行政院左手說636還沒分配右手說因為還沒分配所以你們可能沒辦法解凍這樣的邏輯合理嗎行政院基本上因為對114的預算裡面他有提大院來附議嘛所以這一些時間當然多少他耽擱了一些時間謝謝"},{"start":539.025,"end":560.994,"text":"部長您真的辛苦了啦我想還是要請教一下剛剛我們都已經了解部長的態度了我們也理解行政院的態度啦那我們就以這個您個人的態度我們希望來請教您您如何看待立委以預算的煽動來監督行政機關的行為您覺得這是符不符合邏輯的"},{"start":562.621,"end":575.574,"text":"我想我不能這樣來說明基本上預算就政府部門預算編列當然它依法行政嘛但是我們立委因為選民的一個授權所以給予監督我想這當然都是各盡其職但只是這一次後來譬如說我剛才特別提"},{"start":586.204,"end":613.557,"text":"教委會我感謝委員對教育部業務這個預算上的一個支持但到大院以後它確實變了有一些不是我們一起的一個結果所以我們現在確實也產生了一些困擾事實上我想預算煽動不管在哪一個環節也都是我們立法委員的職責我想分享給教育部部長高等教育的部分其實我們提案凍結的金額"},{"start":614.837,"end":642.674,"text":"最高的一个预算案呢其实是民进党委员的提案高等教育行政以及督导一共编列243.8亿有一名委员的一个案子就冻结了十分之一超过24亿最后有幸在万美林召委的积极协调之下以及所有委员的配合之下该委员没有坚持要冻结24亿而是以委员会共事的方式来冻结该项科目3000万元并且以书面报告方式解冻"},{"start":643.594,"end":665.911,"text":"而中等教育的部分一共編列了20.3億元教育委員會的委員一共提出15個預算案其中六位民進黨的委員們提案總共凍結4.76億超過整個科目預算五分之一如果依照總統府的標準來看民進黨委員們是不是也算傷害中等教育未遂"},{"start":666.371,"end":683.103,"text":"因為有我們的總統府副秘書長上節目說只要有提案的都算是未遂就算他沒有通過部長您覺得動山預算要求行政部門改善既有的政策跟措施對於行政部門是一種傷害嗎還是您剛剛所說其實就是我們負責而已"},{"start":689.261,"end":716.588,"text":"各位委員報告我想這個不管哪一個政黨對教育部的預算提出了一個凍結都是希望教育部在整個政策的推動有一個更詳細的更妥適的一些思考那也許有一些內部或者有一些呈現的資料委員並不清楚那我們來補充說明好 作為部長您覺得如果提案最後就是算是協調完成沒有凍結或刪除這算不算一種凍三未遂啊"},{"start":718.257,"end":725.601,"text":"你覺得這樣的說法好嗎我不是這方面的專家我不知道怎麼樣來回答我想這個語文的事情希望大家還是客觀的來看待潘文中前部長領導的教育部確實很努力的來完成預算煽動其實我對政務部長您的期待也很深希望您能夠傾訴於蘭在政務部長領導之下可以給同仁一個明確的時間能不能更合理的來送出解凍案讓我們的各級"},{"start":745.61,"end":772.47,"text":"單位都能夠有更充足的預算來使用來滿足我們的所謂的師生的需要最後幾個小問題想請教就是AI的部分就是我們現在在飲食習慣上面其實有說什麼能吃什麼不能吃但是現在我們的教育部有很明確的指令說不可以用特定的AI的服務但我想請教一下部長有沒有說建議學生使用哪一些AI服務有還是沒有"},{"start":777.703,"end":804.666,"text":"不好意思那個代理主席我借用幾分我很快加速是跟委員報告就是目前的話就是如果是中小學的部分有沒有正面表列清單現在有負面清單嘛對有沒有正面表列清單跟委員報告就是目前因為根據UNESCO是希望12歲以下盡量用教育的AI所以我們目前就是有針對教育部有一度這樣子的一個教育"},{"start":805.406,"end":826.584,"text":"我們沒有分我們是公立學校我們還有高等教育所以12歲以上就不管他們了12歲以下就是不要用12歲以上隨便亂用其實跟委員報告這個部分我們有在研擬一些相關的規範事實上我們看到教學手冊AI的教學協作手冊已經出到3.0了學生版的手冊到1.0都還不見終於請問何時可以推出學生版的AI使用手冊什麼時候"},{"start":834.921,"end":857.6,"text":"跟委員報告 這個我們回去這跟預算沒有關係嘛對 是 這個部分我們回去來評估一下時間 趕快告訴我們好不好什麼時候可以抓住一個時間來不是說你什麼時候要提出 什麼時候抓一個時間跟委員報告 這個因為我們還要召集專家是不是可以給我們 就是到就是下學期開學之前 可以嗎"},{"start":859.526,"end":875.901,"text":"盡快吧盡快好不好盡快這個我們辦公室在跟您聯絡最後我想一樣科技這個視訊能不能給一些離島高中用視訊的方式來面試因為接下來這個考技南北奔波加上住宿費其實這是不分黨派所以我們都想要來幫家長詢問一下"},{"start":879.904,"end":891.455,"text":"有沒有這個視訊應考的這種可能性謝謝委員提醒我們目前確實就有提供鼓勵各大學在地方上區域有現在是可以視訊應考的是嗎視訊面試是離島地區的離島地區就可以了"},{"start":895.359,"end":908.245,"text":"好 太好了 相關規定也希望可以多加宣傳 我們一起來宣傳那因為我們課政委員是戴昭偉 他之前有排冰箱教育條例但是現在已經過了已經將近快要一年了 當時有提到說這個臧料次長也在這邊有提到說半年內提出院版草案 半年加起來應該是去年12月"},{"start":918.429,"end":932.218,"text":"這個是不是胎死腹中啊我有聽說已經喊停了如果已經喊停的話剛好我們柯之恩委員也在這邊是不是可以給我們一個答覆我想這不只是柯之恩委員啦我想跨黨派的委員都很在意偏鄉教育條例這是我最後一個問題"},{"start":938.908,"end":961.508,"text":"有沒有喊停 如果沒有喊停可不可以給我一個抱怨的啟程抱行政院各位委員報告12月那個時候已經完成所有意見的蒐集跟委員提報的各條文對照那現在大概經過了再一次的公聽會我們預計今年6月以前會有草案跟我們所有的團體包含民間團體跟偏鄉照顧的團體跟22縣市政府做一次會商"},{"start":965.663,"end":987.501,"text":"那6月的話那應該8月應該可以送院了吧這整體的政策我們會跟行政院做一個步調上節奏上跟22縣市整體因為裡面會涉及到偏鄉私資是跟部裡面直接比較有關涉及到經費的部分會跟地方政府有關這個給我們跟地方政府要會商一下謝謝希望教育部秉持行政中立啦照顧我們的教育環境謝謝謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":168,"blocks":[["葛委員如鈞：（9時43分）謝謝代理主席，有請教育部鄭英耀部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["葛委員如鈞：謝謝部長。先前網路上流傳不實消息，有說公費留學預算遭到立院凍刪，影響學生權益，教育部事後雖然有用新聞稿來予以澄清，但是動作其實也慢了好多拍，造成很多學生跟家長的恐慌，加上事後並未對不實消息的來源進行相關的追查，也沒有進一步的採取法律行動，其實會讓很多人懷疑部長您所率領的教育部是不是有點累了。","接下來我想最主要的其實也就是所謂教育資源的問題，所以最先還是要來和部長關心一下您的預算。部長，本席是本會期負責排審教育部業務報告和預算解凍審查的召委，可是到目前為止，教文委員會並沒有收到任何一個教育部的解凍案，就連送進院會一讀的案子也完全沒有。想請教一下部長，您知道解凍案送進院會一讀，交付委員會以後，還需要經過復議期才能夠排審，現在全國的師生、家長都在關心教育部是不是有在積極準備預算解凍案，想請教部長，請問教育部什麼時候可以將114年度的預算解凍案送進立法院審查？時間什麼時候可以？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員提醒，所有的解凍案我們目前都已經準備好，剛才我也跟柯委員提到因為統凍的關係，但是對第一線上所有中小學的、該補助的、所有計畫的執行，我們目前大概在……因為考慮到時間……"],["葛委員如鈞：不夠是嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：前半年我們大概先補助……"],["葛委員如鈞：同仁都點頭，完全足夠，所以不解凍是不是？"],["鄭部長英耀：沒有，就是先補助這一個……"],["葛委員如鈞：是不是全部都夠？所以都夠，不用解凍是嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：我們先撥50%給地方。"],["葛委員如鈞：需不需要解凍？"],["鄭部長英耀：我們當然期待要解凍。"],["葛委員如鈞：要解凍嘛！對不對？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["葛委員如鈞：錢夠不夠用？"],["鄭部長英耀：目前來講，上半年是沒有問題的。"],["葛委員如鈞：所以上半年都不用再解凍了是嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：我們當然希望能夠……"],["葛委員如鈞：6月30號以前不會送出是嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：我跟委員報告，如果636億這一個部分能夠釐清……"],["葛委員如鈞：部長，兩個問題，第一個，請問什麼時候送進來？是不是你現在就告訴我們6月30號以後才會送進來？你現在就可以直接說，謝謝。"],["鄭部長英耀：我想這個部分，我們跟主計總處看怎麼樣有個比較明確的……"],["葛委員如鈞：日期，什麼時候送進來第一個案子？部長，請回答我，什麼時候送進來第一個案子？因為您說已經準備好了。"],["鄭部長英耀：還是跟委員報告，如果就……"],["葛委員如鈞：636億是不是？"],["鄭部長英耀：目前扣除636億的這個情況不變，我們大概初步都已經有了。"],["葛委員如鈞：對嘛！準備好了……不是，部長，我想您現在做了兩個不太好的示範，對全國家長、師生是什麼呢？您現在要做一些工作，可是您不給同仁日期啊！您不給同仁、不給全國師生一個設定的日期喔！有沒有設定？有沒有設定日期？"],["鄭部長英耀：我們只要能夠這一個……"],["葛委員如鈞：有沒有設定日期？對不起，部長，有沒有？我們現在是在給全國做示範，有沒有設定日期？"],["鄭部長英耀：我們當然是希望能夠越早解凍……"],["葛委員如鈞：如果學生這樣跟老師說：「老師，我越早交越好」，老師說你什麼時候交？「我越早交越好」，這樣可以嗎？部長，可以嗎？時間暫停，我們讓部長回答。"],["主席：好，我們時間暫停。"],["鄭部長英耀：當然就是因為有一些……"],["葛委員如鈞：好，回答了，時間繼續。"],["主席：好，可以。"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，就是因為有一些我們還沒有辦法掌控的數據。"],["葛委員如鈞：再來，我問部長，你剛剛說636億嘛！請問學生可不可以跟老師說：「老師，因為我知道後面可能還有其他的作業，所以現在這個作業我沒有辦法交，因為之後可能還有更多作業。」學生可不可以這樣？部長請回答。"],["鄭部長英耀：我想有一些情況確實是比較沒有辦法掌握。"],["葛委員如鈞：部長，請回答學生可不可以這樣回答？"],["鄭部長英耀：那還是要看這一個……case by case。"],["葛委員如鈞：所以學生可以回答老師說case by case喔？就是我的case啊！學生說我的case就是這樣啊！"],["鄭部長英耀：我的意思是說要看那個情境。"],["葛委員如鈞：我可以晚一點交，因為部長是這樣示範的啊！"],["鄭部長英耀：情境更清楚的時候，我們當然才好來做回復。"],["葛委員如鈞：部長，我想我們委員會送出這個預算，其實18個凍結案都已經確定題目，至今超過100天，部長，您是教育專家，也希望可以跟學生、老師做一個最好的示範，希望不要用這些理由來呈現。其實我們剛剛都只是在講一個理念上的問題，但我想我們也是要很科學、很數據的，希望能夠來說服您，您現在的作為其實會讓別人誤會您是不作為的。","我們來看一下近5年教育部解凍的情形，從近5年的整理可以看到，潘文忠前部長領導之下的教育部，在74件書面報告的情況之下，可以在4月中以前將解凍報告送進立法院，讓委員會5月初就能夠排審解凍案，並且歷年來在凍結金額破億的情況之下，幾乎都有在上半年委員會完成解凍案的排審，也就是凍結金額越高，教育部需錢孔急，就應該越快將解凍報告送立院排審。只有唯一一次例外是113年度，因為當時是相對金額比較低，低於5,000萬，相信不是當時的范雲召委不願意替教育部排審，而是合理懷疑可能是當年確實不缺這些錢，所以解凍進度較往常慢。","對此本席辦公室也特別去了解目前教育部預算解凍項目的執行情況，從教育部提供的資料發現，到3月底為止，14個有被凍結預算的科目當中，扣除凍結以後可動支的預算執行率最高只有40%，我們也是有做功課的，其中甚至有兩個預算科目的執行率是零啊！也就是即便有了預算，教育部到3月底以前，也還完全沒有開始支用，從近5年的資料來看，恐怕真的是不缺錢才是教育部不急著來解凍預算的主要原因，是不是這樣？教育部是不是不缺錢？"],["鄭部長英耀：我跟委員報告，基本上我謝謝我們教委會的委員對教育部預算經費的支持，但是在凍結的部分，我們當然也希望能早一點解凍，但是因為大院當時的統刪讓教育部在內部的預算上，到目前還沒有一個比較明確的調整。"],["葛委員如鈞：剛剛我們已經提過了，學生不可能因為後面還有別的功課，我現在的功課就不交，這是不make sense的，所以恐怕不只是太有錢，可能也是太聽話。請教一下部長，有沒有行政院的長官來說什麼時候之前不要送解凍案？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想應該這麼講，教育部也是行政院團隊的一……"],["葛委員如鈞：有還是沒有？有沒有受到行政院的指示，影響了解凍案送出的時間，有還是沒有？這是國會。"],["鄭部長英耀：行政院只是告訴我們，在這個636億裡面還沒有一個基本的……"],["葛委員如鈞：所以是不是行政院說636億要完全完成以後你們才送？有沒有這樣說？"],["鄭部長英耀：基本上並沒有做這樣的指示，只是希望636億能夠有一個明確的看怎麼樣，因為行政院過去都在提覆議案嘛！"],["葛委員如鈞：換句話說，實際上您已經證實了，行政院說636億如果沒有處理的話，解凍案就不要處理了。現在636億……"],["鄭部長英耀：因為行政院對大院的預算……"],["葛委員如鈞：那我請教部長，636億的分配是誰來分配的，您知道嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：基本上是行政院會有……"],["葛委員如鈞：是行政院分配的嘛！"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["葛委員如鈞：所以行政院左手說636億還沒分配，右手說因為還沒分配，所以你們可能沒辦法解凍，這樣邏輯合理嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，行政院基本上對114年的預算有向大院提覆議，所以這些多少會耽擱一些時間。"],["葛委員如鈞：謝謝，部長，您真的辛苦了，我想還是要請教一下，剛剛我們都已經瞭解部長的態度了，我們也理解行政院的態度，我們就以您個人的態度來請教你，您如何看待立委以預算的刪凍來監督行政機關的行為？您覺得這符不符合邏輯？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想我不能這樣來說明，基本上，政府部門預算的編列，當然要依法行政，但是……"],["葛委員如鈞：是嘛！我們也是依法監督對吧？"],["鄭部長英耀：立委也因為選民的授權所以可以監督，我想這當然都是各盡其職，只是這次後來……譬如說我剛才特別提，我感謝我們教委會委員對教育部業務預算上的支持，但到大院以後它確實變得有些不是我們預期的結果，所以我們現在確實也產生了一些困擾。"],["葛委員如鈞：事實上，預算刪凍不管在哪一些環節，也都是我們立法委員的職責，我想分享給教育部部長，高等教育的部分，我們提案凍結的金額，最高的預算案其實是民進黨委員的提案，高等教育行政及督導一共編列243.8億，有一名委員的案子就凍結了十分之一，超過24億，最後有幸在萬美玲召委的積極協調以及所有委員的配合之下，該委員沒有堅持凍結24億，而是以委員會共識的方式凍結該項科目3,000萬元，並且以提書面報告的方式解凍。","中等教育的部分，一共編列了20.3億元，教文委員會的委員一共提出15個預算案，其中6位民進黨的委員們提案總共凍結4.76億，超過整個科目預算的五分之一。如果依照總統府的標準來看，民進黨委員們是不是也算傷害中等教育未遂？因為我們總統府副秘書長上節目時說，只要有提案的都算是未遂，就算它沒有通過。部長，您覺得凍刪預算，要求行政部門改善既有的政策跟措施對於行政部門是一種傷害嗎？還是像您剛剛所說的，其實這就是我們要負責而已？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，我想不管哪一個政黨對教育部的預算提出凍結，都是希望教育部在整個政策的推動上有一個更詳細、更妥適的思考，也許有一些內部或是一些呈現的資料委員並不清楚，我們來補充說明。"],["葛委員如鈞：作為部長，您覺得如果提案最後算是協調完成，沒有凍結或刪除，這算不算一種凍刪未遂？你覺得這樣的說法好嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：這個法律……我不是這方面的專家，我不知道怎麼樣來回答委員。"],["葛委員如鈞：我想這個語文的事情，希望大家還是能客觀地看待，潘文忠前部長領導的教育部確實很努力地完成預算刪凍，其實我對鄭部長的期待也很深，希望您能夠青出於藍，在鄭部長的領導之下，可以給同仁一個明確的時間，能不能更合理地送出解凍案，讓我們的各級單位都能有更充足的預算可使用，以滿足師生的需要？","最後有幾個小問題想請教，也就是AI的部分，我們現在在飲食習慣上面有說什麼能吃、什麼不能吃，但是現在我們的教育部有很明確的指令說，不可以用特定AI的服務，但我想請教一下部長，有沒有建議學生使用哪一些AI的服務，有還是沒有？","不好意思，代理主席，我借用幾分鐘，我會很快、會加速。"],["吳司長穎沺：跟委員報告，目前中小學的部分……"],["葛委員如鈞：有沒有正面表列清單，現在有負面清單了嘛！有沒有AI服務的正面表列清單？"],["吳司長穎沺：跟委員報告，目前因為根據UNESCO，希望12歲以下盡量用教育的AI，所以我們目前有針對……教育部一度有這樣子的教育用AI。"],["葛委員如鈞：我們沒有分，我們是公立學校，我們還有高等教育，所以12歲以上就不管他們了，12歲以下就是不要用，12歲以上就是隨便亂用？"],["吳司長穎沺：跟委員報告，這個部分我們有在研擬一些相關的規範。"],["葛委員如鈞：很好。事實上我們看到，AI的教學協作手冊已經出到3.0了，學生版的手冊卻連1.0都還不見蹤影，請問何時可以推出學生版的AI使用手冊？什麼時候？"],["吳司長穎沺：跟委員報告，這個我們回去……"],["葛委員如鈞：這跟預算沒有關係吧？"],["吳司長穎沺：是。這個部分我們回去來處理。"],["葛委員如鈞：評估一下時間，趕快告訴我們好不好？什麼時候可以抓出一個時間來？不是說你什麼時候要提出，而是什麼時候抓一個時間。"],["吳司長穎沺：跟委員報告，因為這個我們還要召集專家，是不是可以給我們到下學期開學之前，可以嗎？"],["葛委員如鈞：儘快吧！儘快好不好？這個我們辦公室再跟您聯絡。"],["吳司長穎沺：好。"],["葛委員如鈞：最後，我講一下科技，能不能給一些離島的高中用視訊的方式來面試？因為接下來的這個考季，南北奔波加上住宿費，其實這是不分黨派的啦！所以我們都想幫家長詢問一下，有沒有視訊應考的可能性？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員提醒，我們目前確實有提供，也鼓勵各大學在地方上……"],["葛委員如鈞：現在是可以視訊應考、視訊面試了嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["廖司長高賢：是，離島地區……"],["鄭部長英耀：離島地區就可以。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，太好了，相關規定也希望可以多加宣傳，我們一起來宣傳。因為柯志恩委員是代召委，他之前有排偏鄉教育條例，但是現在已經過了將近快一年了，當時有提到……張廖次長也在這邊，有提到要在半年內提出院版草案，半年加起來應該是去年12月，這個是不是胎死腹中了？我有聽說已經喊停了，如果已經喊停的話，剛好柯志恩委員也在這邊，是不是可以給我們一個答復？我想這不只是柯志恩委員，相信跨黨派的委員都很在意偏鄉教育條例，這是我最後的一個問題。有沒有喊停？如果沒有喊停，可不可以給我一個報院（報行政院）的期程？"],["彭署長富源：跟委員報告，12月那個時候已經完成所有意見的蒐集跟委員提報的各條文對照，現在大概經過再一次的公聽會，我們預計今年6月以前會有草案跟所有的團體，包含民間團體、偏鄉照顧的團體跟22個縣市政府做一次會商。"],["葛委員如鈞：6月做的話，應該8月應該可以送院了吧？"],["彭署長富源：整體的政策我們會跟行政院做一個步調上、節奏上跟22縣市整體……因為裡面會涉及到偏鄉師資跟部裡面比較直接有關，涉及到經費的部分則跟地方政府有關，這個要讓我們跟地方政府會商一下，謝謝。"],["葛委員如鈞：希望教育部秉持行政中立，照顧我們的教育環境，謝謝。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝部長，謝謝葛委員。","接下來我們請劉書彬委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":186,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-7","speakers":["葛如鈞","萬美玲","柯志恩","劉書彬","羅廷瑋","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林宜瑾","吳思瑤","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","林沛祥","張雅琳","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","范雲","李坤城","謝龍介","王定宇","黃國昌","翁曉玲","陳培瑜","葉元之","高金素梅"],"page_start":113,"meetingDate":["2025-04-14"],"gazette_id":"1143702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143702_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143702_00003"}}}