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0.779}, {\"word\": \"際\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 954.23, \"end\": 954.371, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 954.371, \"end\": 954.531, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 954.531, \"end\": 954.551, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"楚\", \"start\": 954.551, \"end\": 954.672, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 954.672, \"end\": 954.712, \"score\": 0.467}, {\"word\": \"且\", \"start\": 954.712, \"end\": 954.852, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 954.852, \"end\": 954.932, \"score\": 0.742}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 954.932, \"end\": 954.952, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 954.952, \"end\": 955.133, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 955.133, \"end\": 955.875, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"護\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 955.875, \"end\": 955.975, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 955.975, \"end\": 956.256, \"score\": 0.644}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 956.256, \"end\": 956.376, \"score\": 0.706}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 956.376, \"end\": 956.597, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 956.597, \"end\": 956.637, \"score\": 0.192}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"劉\"}, {\"word\": \"書\"}, {\"word\": \"斌\", \"start\": 956.637, \"end\": 956.737, \"score\": 0.695}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 956.737, \"end\": 956.757, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:00,749\n謝謝趙偉那有請鄭部長好有請部長貝子荀謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:24,622 --> 00:00:44,256\n委員好鄭部長好那我來自於高教界所以我關心的是少子化對於我們高教的影響包括的是看到有在徵收境外生那另外一部分就是在對於比較弱勢這部分需要退場的這樣的一個機制我要想做一下詢問下一頁\n\n3\n00:00:46,377 --> 00:01:14,074\n我們看到在這邊目前的退場有兩種機制一種是高中以上的私立學校的退場機制另外一個是私校法但是我們看到它在適用的條件上面有不一樣前面的話是在於說如果已經確定它是財務惡化私資不符合法規欠薪或是違反相關規定就是由教育部該是主動的去做一個\n\n4\n00:01:15,875 --> 00:01:37,869\n試用那另外一部分我們也看到方式是在私校他利用的是說他認為有辦學有治案難行或是遇到重大錯困難的時候他不能夠繼續去辦理之後他可以申請就是向教育部提出來做停辦這個部分那我現在這個問題是說那這個程序差異性尤其在私校法這邊目前算是叫大漢的這個科技大學\n\n5\n00:01:41,550 --> 00:01:59,875\n他當初還有去年他就申請了如果再往下看的時候大家看一下他事實上呢他就是有還有500多名學生然後26位教師還有8000多萬財務還算可以但是就是在很快的時間之內我們再往下看的時候那個條例上看到說\n\n6\n00:02:01,375 --> 00:02:18,655\n三四個月之內就被申請停招然後呢就申請了然後就八月去年的時候就申請停辦了在這個情況之下想問一下這麼快的行程教育部有針對大漢的部分提出這個提出學校諮詢會的這樣的一個建制去做這部分嗎\n\n7\n00:02:20,287 --> 00:02:27,050\n有吧剛點頭的是有跟委員報告這個程序都要經過私校諮詢會所以有提理由是為什麼可以同意理由就是說這個學校因為這幾年來整個招生的狀況是逐年在下降以他113年其實招不到100個學生\n\n8\n00:02:39,456 --> 00:02:44,022\n所以學校希望在還有現金的狀況之下來對於老師因為學校要停辦了他的一些離退給予最優厚的補償所以這些現金主要是要來提供老師這樣的一個退場後的一個補償\n\n9\n00:02:59,199 --> 00:03:02,023\n還有學生的安置所以以大漢停辦之後他的學生安置目前我們已經也全部都安置到鄰近的學校而且學校也提供每個學生一萬五的補助所以你們認為是說這個八千萬元是足夠讓他們可以處理的是不是\n\n10\n00:03:18,402 --> 00:03:37,144\n是可是萬一如果不夠這也是很重要的語言講那我們往上看這一部分第一頁的這一部分那這個地方呢因為退場條例它只適用在是教育部主動去發掘到的問題有預警嘛等等的但是它並不適用到那些私效法這些部分\n\n11\n00:03:37,725 --> 00:03:54,631\n當然會不會出現到說如果萬一而且我們現在看到的是說大漢這一部分呢他對於有些他在花蓮可是他的學生要到宜蘭去念書就分到這邊去了那這種情況之下這個八千塊錢或是說八千萬的部分夠嗎等等還包括是說\n\n12\n00:03:55,971 --> 00:04:17,184\n退場的這個部分退場的這個基金上面不能夠去適用到適用到失效法嗎你當初的考量為什麼要兩步如果萬億到你們現在有的八千萬其實是當初他給你的自滅數字可是在實際上發現到他只是隱瞞了這種情況等等的是不是有必要說說把它變成一套就是你也是主動的去做監督有沒有這個必要性\n\n13\n00:04:18,044 --> 00:04:21,887\n好跟委員報告喔退場條例針對的是學校因為不管在財務在師資在教學已經是沒有辦法提供一個正常的這樣的一個情況之下那我們經過我們退場條例審議委員會那我現在的問題是會列為專輔學校\n\n14\n00:04:38,078 --> 00:05:07,010\n是不是可以適用到私校法之便他如果已經進入到要退場的情況甚至就是要停辦那這樣的情況是不是能夠好好的去做處理他假如還沒有被列為專案輔導學校之前他都可以用私校法所以你的意思是說這個部分就把它缺分因為你們當初已經評斷他的財務是可以的所以不需要就是即使他未來發生到一些問題的情況但是這件可能沒有必要去處理\n\n15\n00:05:08,051 --> 00:05:10,041\n是但是如果真的發生的話你們會處理嗎\n\n16\n00:05:12,613 --> 00:05:40,931\n跟委員報告我們其實以大漢為例就是因為他自己發現他已經招生學生身影已經沒有辦法確定了然後他學校的校務基金還沒有到因為現在有學生到後面到花蓮從花蓮到宜蘭去這些部分目前都有爭議出來所以才想說這部分能夠更廣泛的去了解另外我想要再了解的是再回到原來的第一頁當中可以看到是說那基金的退場基金這一部分我們看往下看\n\n17\n00:05:42,693 --> 00:05:52,442\n這邊我看到在櫃部裡面所提出來的這個預算可以看到說在114年的時候然後墊付了13億多的錢但是回收2億\n\n18\n00:05:55,490 --> 00:05:59,654\n應該是兩千多萬這種情況那這個情況實際墊幅到13億多那請問一下怎麼會有這麼大的差距墊幅的怎麼回收呢我們已經付出去了好跟委員報告因為目前這些停辦要退場學校的校產目前都在處理進行中\n\n19\n00:06:19,254 --> 00:06:41,175\n縣市政府例如說我們的中州就是彰化縣政府大同技術學院就是嘉義縣嘉義市這些縣市政府要承接這些退場學校的校產那他會針對這些學校跟基金申請電付的這個額度他會用購置校產的方式回\n\n20\n00:06:42,296 --> 00:06:46,239\n回來給我們基金所以這個陸續會逐年會回到基金來所以目前的帳上看到基金還是有墊付蠻大塊的那但是後續整個校產回到各部會使用之後他就會逐年編預算給基金的這塊我們都已經有有在做這樣的一個處理所以基金會逐年來回補\n\n21\n00:07:05,070 --> 00:07:12,436\n那現在包括的是因為這些學校的校產包括剛剛看到的全球科技大學去年的時候也被說要停招嘛這樣的情況之下有一個很大的問題是他們的當初的財產事實上是教育部也花了很多的\n\n22\n00:07:20,642 --> 00:07:49,305\n這個公家的資源去投注嘛對不對所以這部分絕對請大家請教育部這邊要去了解到它實際上在運作的時候這個翹傘因為我可以看到你們報告當中說針對地方政府等等的都有去好好去做可是這點我想是不是請教育部這邊特別是針對目前要退場的部分給我一個報告就是說目前處於到什麼狀況它翹傘尤其是大旱這一部分我們看到是它大概就有14多公頃可是很大的一個面積上面如果沒有好好去運用的話或是跟怎麼樣的它去轉型可是還是有\n\n23\n00:07:49,645 --> 00:08:10,733\n有屬於公共利益的部分公共財產的這部分怎麼去讓真正回歸到公共利益去處理好嗎好謝謝然後另外呢我們再往下看這邊好就是剛才我說的這個地產就是所謂的公共財產要活化那我們繼續往下面看這個問題我進入到一個問題在於說現在的這個學生這部分\n\n24\n00:08:11,713 --> 00:08:35,367\n好那學生這部分我們看到的是好我們也許就往下好了因為這部分我看到的是說因為好我們再往上看一下好了退場這些部分因為剛才可能是市長這邊有特別去了解是市長嘛有特別去針對說是你們去主動了解那我現在想問的因為目前看到的是每年從114萬到128萬平均單位還會少3到4萬每年平均是這樣的狀況之下那\n\n25\n00:08:41,614 --> 00:08:46,186\n預計你們對於什麼樣的學校他會進入到退場的這樣的一個名單當中有沒有什麼標準\n\n26\n00:08:48,288 --> 00:09:01,415\n或是大概還有多少的比例的學校會進入到這個地方跟委員報告啊部裡面沒有所謂的大學最後會變成極所這樣的沒有沒有就是什麼樣條件什麼樣條件只要學校就剛才提到只要學校的財務正常不會欠老師薪水該給學生的教學資源都要提供這是一個最基本再來教學品質一定要符合\n\n27\n00:09:14,702 --> 00:09:27,567\n該有的教學品質等等這一些條件只要它符合了不會退場所以你們就是時常都有這個定期在監督對不對有我們都定期在檢核這部分我想也是保護我們的私藝學校那謝謝我們繼續下回到一個議題再說\n\n28\n00:09:30,168 --> 00:09:54,583\n看到交易部今年已經宣布禁止我國跟十所大陸的學校作為一個交流中研院這邊也做了一個回應就是說他們因為是中研院主動的去做這樣的一個交流所以他沒有控管得很清楚那現在的問題是說學術交流的準則是在哪裡當然我想問的是說有沒有中國在科研或是學術領域是國際間佼佼者這一部分請部長回答\n\n29\n00:09:55,706 --> 00:10:02,539\n謝謝文這個指教就是我們這裡邊除了這個統戰部因為我們一般我們希望兩岸是一個這一個\n\n30\n00:10:05,233 --> 00:10:27,484\n等於說一個友善一個有序的一個交流健康有序的一個交流所以我們對一個大學本來他是一個追求知識科技是一個自由環境下的一個學術發展那他把三所學校歸為統戰部那他的一個目的跟人才的培育跟我們大學的宗旨是不太一樣的\n\n31\n00:10:27,904 --> 00:10:54,149\n所以你是說你的意思是說只要被統戰部列為一個單獨的項目的話你們就會把它列為禁止交流是嗎還有軍事學校這個部分涉及到機敏基科技還有一些我們產業的競爭我們這個禁止交流其他像北京復旦清華這些我們並沒有禁止交流甚至我們學生過去那邊讀書我們也沒有禁止\n\n32\n00:10:56,789 --> 00:11:00,032\n這我們尊重學生的一個選擇所以目前時鎖就是有軍事或是統戰的對不對三鎖統戰的跟國王七鎖這七鎖那這樣子就很清楚了不然可能學生們他們想說因為有些在什麼唐太的部分還有在電動的電磁這部分事實上他們是在優惠的\n\n33\n00:11:18,672 --> 00:11:47,162\n以兩岸現在的一個關係我們還是保留一個開放的一個但是相當程度當如果這個對岸對台灣是比較不友善的因為包含到現在他事實上也沒有開放陸生來到台灣好那我現在了解了謝謝你講那謝謝部長我們再最後一個這個問題在這邊我們想問一下今年的時候大學校長會議那我想問一下再上一頁請問一下請部長說一下大學校長會議舉行的意義是什麼\n\n34\n00:11:49,116 --> 00:12:17,371\n講大學校長的會議當然有一個是因為他算是台灣最重要的一個人才培育的場域那彼此透過一個會議來思考高等教育的人才怎麼樣來培育然後怎麼樣因應世界各國在人才培育上的一些挑戰當然也一定有競爭有合作有競爭那我們共同集思廣益包含我們怎麼樣把這些的一些人才培育包括科研的研究能夠形成一個\n\n35\n00:12:18,352 --> 00:12:33,006\n這一個高等教育的一些政策我想這都是謝謝部長那我們現在往下院看可是今年你所說的這部分我們看到這個主題是說跨域自主多元連結但是呢你前面邀請的這個包括中研院長等等什麼校長來都很好啊但是就出現了一個跟教育\n\n36\n00:12:37,710 --> 00:12:45,591\n業務可能不是很相關的大陸委員會的邱隨正委員來這邊做一個演講那想要詢問一下尤其是他後來的情況在文中講到說如何嗜讀中國要培養嗜讀中國的這個師資那您這個對於有什麼看法到底是中國跟中國中共難道我們這裡面的學術裡面的很多的包括你用的是中文還有中國剛才你說的有些高的科技的部分的時候有些學術教的部分那怎麼部分講說\n\n37\n00:13:06,395 --> 00:13:27,335\n這部分是不是已經政治的手已經伸到了大學知識這邊去請問您的態度是怎麼樣我想我基本的態度是這一個怎麼樣讓我們年輕人包括一個教育工作者能夠理解到國家的安全這一個其實包括歐美先進國家大概基本上的態度都一樣的也就是說我們怎麼樣讓我們年輕人\n\n38\n00:13:30,037 --> 00:13:56,245\n有國家的認同然後有國家的意識甚至理解到可能對岸對台灣有一定程度的這些的干擾威脅我簡單來講就以統戰的統戰部所管轄的大學這在台灣我們不會有另外成立一個統戰部這就很清楚啊你剛剛所說那是學術交流這部可是現在就是用在教育部的人都對所有大學學校一百幾十所的部分\n\n39\n00:13:58,326 --> 00:14:05,969\n那你這部份通過大學校長就去要求說整個大學的獨立自主這部份應該是這麼講說本身就應該有嗜讀到中國的部分跟文包括我們大學也都在開許多的國際關係兩岸的許多的一些這些相關的一些的課程那怎麼樣讓這個課程裡面我想我們所以我們以後教育部裡面會有師資裡面會有所謂的嗜讀中國的這個特別的師資去培育嗎\n\n40\n00:14:27,699 --> 00:14:38,363\n我們不會有特別因為兩岸的一個關係它有一些戰略有一些所謂的來自於更高的一些國際關係上那就在國關領域上面去進行就好了你把它特別突出的時候我們在隔壁那麼近你這樣子一個敵對狀況我們逃鄉還有大概一百萬左右在那邊的時候敵對的關係我覺得我們更應該要理解共產黨它怎麼樣在思考對台灣\n\n41\n00:14:51,327 --> 00:15:17,528\n國共產黨跟中國其實不是很像會不會完全要注意到這個差異性我也認同這個委員所提的我們事實上不是對中國而是對因為他的一個執政共產黨對台灣的長期的一些威脅跟不友善我想我們怎麼樣能夠讓年輕人包括校長能夠理解國家現在所面臨的一些國際上邊緣政治跟許多的一些挑戰我想過去他\n\n42\n00:15:19,491 --> 00:15:22,227\n過去兩岸的關係互動良好我們事實上\n\n43\n00:15:23,393 --> 00:15:52,667\n在許多的課程也就變成比較一個國際關係的一個角色那這一次確實因為這一個對岸對台灣有比較相對多的一些干擾那我想我們讓大學所以您是採取的是一個提醒的態度但是我想知道您一定要堅守對大學學術自主的這個原則好不好這一個毋庸置疑我想我也跟委員一樣我來自於大學我想學術的自由自主這一個我們一定可以尊重\n\n44\n00:15:53,087 --> 00:15:56,757\n希望你把握的分際要很清楚而且一定要保護那是台灣的一個資產謝謝謝謝謝謝劉書斌委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9\t749\t謝謝趙偉 那有請鄭部長好 有請部長貝子荀 謝謝\n24622\t44256\t委員好 鄭部長好那我來自於高教界所以我關心的是少子化對於我們高教的影響包括的是看到有在徵收境外生那另外一部分就是在對於比較弱勢這部分需要退場的這樣的一個機制我要想做一下詢問下一頁\n46377\t74074\t我們看到在這邊目前的退場有兩種機制一種是高中以上的私立學校的退場機制另外一個是私校法但是我們看到它在適用的條件上面有不一樣前面的話是在於說如果已經確定它是財務惡化 私資不符合法規 欠薪或是違反相關規定就是由教育部該是主動的去做一個\n75875\t97869\t試用那另外一部分我們也看到方式是在私校他利用的是說他認為有辦學有治案難行或是遇到重大錯困難的時候他不能夠繼續去辦理之後他可以申請就是向教育部提出來做停辦這個部分那我現在這個問題是說那這個程序差異性尤其在私校法這邊目前算是叫大漢的這個科技大學\n101550\t119875\t他當初還有去年他就申請了如果再往下看的時候大家看一下他事實上呢他就是有還有500多名學生然後26位教師還有8000多萬財務還算可以但是就是在很快的時間之內我們再往下看的時候那個條例上看到說\n121375\t138655\t三四個月之內就被申請停招然後呢就申請了然後就八月去年的時候就申請停辦了在這個情況之下想問一下這麼快的行程教育部有針對大漢的部分提出這個提出學校諮詢會的這樣的一個建制去做這部分嗎\n140287\t147050\t有吧剛點頭的是有跟委員報告這個程序都要經過私校諮詢會所以有提理由是為什麼可以同意理由就是說這個學校因為這幾年來整個招生的狀況是逐年在下降以他113年其實招不到100個學生\n159456\t164022\t所以學校希望在還有現金的狀況之下來對於老師因為學校要停辦了他的一些離退給予最優厚的補償所以這些現金主要是要來提供老師這樣的一個退場後的一個補償\n179199\t182023\t還有學生的安置所以以大漢停辦之後他的學生安置目前我們已經也全部都安置到鄰近的學校而且學校也提供每個學生一萬五的補助所以你們認為是說這個八千萬元是足夠讓他們可以處理的是不是\n198402\t217144\t是 可是萬一如果不夠 這也是很重要的語言講那我們往上看這一部分 第一頁的這一部分那這個地方呢 因為退場條例它只適用在是教育部主動去發掘到的問題有預警嘛等等的 但是它並不適用到那些私效法這些部分\n217725\t234631\t當然會不會出現到說如果萬一而且我們現在看到的是說大漢這一部分呢他對於有些他在花蓮可是他的學生要到宜蘭去念書就分到這邊去了那這種情況之下這個八千塊錢或是說八千萬的部分夠嗎等等還包括是說\n235971\t257184\t退場的這個部分退場的這個基金上面不能夠去適用到適用到失效法嗎你當初的考量為什麼要兩步如果萬億到你們現在有的八千萬其實是當初他給你的自滅數字可是在實際上發現到他只是隱瞞了這種情況等等的是不是有必要說說把它變成一套就是你也是主動的去做監督有沒有這個必要性\n258044\t261887\t好跟委員報告喔退場條例針對的是學校因為不管在財務在師資在教學已經是沒有辦法提供一個正常的這樣的一個情況之下那我們經過我們退場條例審議委員會那我現在的問題是會列為專輔學校\n278078\t307010\t是不是可以適用到私校法之便他如果已經進入到要退場的情況甚至就是要停辦那這樣的情況是不是能夠好好的去做處理他假如還沒有被列為專案輔導學校之前他都可以用私校法所以你的意思是說這個部分就把它缺分因為你們當初已經評斷他的財務是可以的所以不需要就是即使他未來發生到一些問題的情況但是這件可能沒有必要去處理\n308051\t310041\t是但是如果真的發生的話你們會處理嗎\n312613\t340931\t跟委員報告我們其實以大漢為例就是因為他自己發現他已經招生學生身影已經沒有辦法確定了然後他學校的校務基金還沒有到因為現在有學生到後面到花蓮從花蓮到宜蘭去這些部分目前都有爭議出來所以才想說這部分能夠更廣泛的去了解另外我想要再了解的是再回到原來的第一頁當中可以看到是說那基金的退場基金這一部分我們看往下看\n342693\t352442\t這邊我看到在櫃部裡面所提出來的這個預算可以看到說在114年的時候然後墊付了13億多的錢但是回收2億\n355490\t359654\t應該是兩千多萬這種情況那這個情況實際墊幅到13億多那請問一下怎麼會有這麼大的差距墊幅的怎麼回收呢我們已經付出去了好 跟委員報告因為目前這些停辦要退場學校的校產目前都在處理進行中\n379254\t401175\t縣市政府例如說我們的中州就是彰化縣政府大同技術學院就是嘉義縣嘉義市這些縣市政府要承接這些退場學校的校產那他會針對這些學校跟基金申請電付的這個額度他會用購置校產的方式回\n402296\t406239\t回來給我們基金所以這個陸續會逐年會回到基金來所以目前的帳上看到基金還是有墊付蠻大塊的那但是後續整個校產回到各部會使用之後他就會逐年編預算給基金的這塊我們都已經有有在做這樣的一個處理所以基金會逐年來回補\n425070\t432436\t那現在包括的是因為這些學校的校產包括剛剛看到的全球科技大學去年的時候也被說要停招嘛這樣的情況之下有一個很大的問題是他們的當初的財產事實上是教育部也花了很多的\n440642\t469305\t這個公家的資源去投注嘛對不對所以這部分絕對請大家請教育部這邊要去了解到它實際上在運作的時候這個翹傘因為我可以看到你們報告當中說針對地方政府等等的都有去好好去做可是這點我想是不是請教育部這邊特別是針對目前要退場的部分給我一個報告就是說目前處於到什麼狀況它翹傘尤其是大旱這一部分我們看到是它大概就有14多公頃可是很大的一個面積上面如果沒有好好去運用的話或是跟怎麼樣的它去轉型可是還是有\n469645\t490733\t有屬於公共利益的部分公共財產的這部分怎麼去讓真正回歸到公共利益去處理好嗎好謝謝然後另外呢我們再往下看這邊好就是剛才我說的這個地產就是所謂的公共財產要活化那我們繼續往下面看這個問題我進入到一個問題在於說現在的這個學生這部分\n491713\t515367\t好 那學生這部分我們看到的是好 我們也許就往下好了因為這部分我看到的是說因為 好 我們再往上看一下好了退場這些部分因為剛才可能是市長這邊有特別去了解是市長嘛有特別去針對說是你們去主動了解那我現在想問的因為目前看到的是每年從114萬到128萬平均單位還會少3到4萬每年平均是這樣的狀況之下那\n521614\t526186\t預計你們對於什麼樣的學校他會進入到退場的這樣的一個名單當中有沒有什麼標準\n528288\t541415\t或是大概還有多少的比例的學校會進入到這個地方跟委員報告啊 部裡面沒有所謂的大學最後會變成極所這樣的沒有沒有 就是什麼樣條件 什麼樣條件只要學校 就剛才提到 只要學校的財務正常不會欠老師薪水該給學生的教學資源都要提供這是一個最基本再來教學品質一定要符合\n554702\t567567\t該有的教學品質等等這一些條件只要它符合了不會退場所以你們就是時常都有這個定期在監督對不對有 我們都定期在檢核這部分我想也是保護我們的私藝學校那謝謝我們繼續下回到一個議題再說\n570168\t594583\t看到交易部今年已經宣布禁止我國跟十所大陸的學校作為一個交流中研院這邊也做了一個回應就是說他們因為是中研院主動的去做這樣的一個交流所以他沒有控管得很清楚那現在的問題是說學術交流的準則是在哪裡當然我想問的是說有沒有中國在科研或是學術領域是國際間佼佼者這一部分請部長回答\n595706\t602539\t謝謝文這個指教就是我們這裡邊除了這個統戰部因為我們一般我們希望兩岸是一個這一個\n605233\t627484\t等於說一個友善一個有序的一個交流健康有序的一個交流所以我們對一個大學本來他是一個追求知識科技是一個自由環境下的一個學術發展那他把三所學校歸為統戰部那他的一個目的跟人才的培育跟我們大學的宗旨是不太一樣的\n627904\t654149\t所以你是說 你的意思是說只要被統戰部列為一個單獨的項目的話你們就會把它列為禁止交流是嗎還有軍事學校這個部分涉及到機敏基科技還有一些我們產業的競爭我們這個禁止交流其他像北京 復旦 清華這些我們並沒有禁止交流甚至我們學生過去那邊讀書我們也沒有禁止\n656789\t660032\t這我們尊重學生的一個選擇所以目前時鎖就是有軍事或是統戰的對不對三鎖統戰的跟國王七鎖這七鎖那這樣子就很清楚了不然可能學生們他們想說因為有些在什麼唐太的部分還有在電動的電磁這部分事實上他們是在優惠的\n678672\t707162\t以兩岸現在的一個關係我們還是保留一個開放的一個但是相當程度當如果這個對岸對台灣是比較不友善的因為包含到現在他事實上也沒有開放陸生來到台灣好那我現在了解了謝謝你講那謝謝部長我們再最後一個這個問題在這邊我們想問一下今年的時候大學校長會議那我想問一下再上一頁請問一下請部長說一下大學校長會議舉行的意義是什麼\n709116\t737371\t講大學校長的會議當然有一個是因為他算是台灣最重要的一個人才培育的場域那彼此透過一個會議來思考高等教育的人才怎麼樣來培育然後怎麼樣因應世界各國在人才培育上的一些挑戰當然也一定有競爭有合作有競爭那我們共同集思廣益包含我們怎麼樣把這些的一些人才培育包括科研的研究能夠形成一個\n738352\t753006\t這一個高等教育的一些政策我想這都是謝謝部長那我們現在往下院看可是今年你所說的這部分我們看到這個主題是說跨域自主多元連結但是呢你前面邀請的這個包括中研院長等等什麼校長來都很好啊但是就出現了一個跟教育\n757710\t765591\t業務可能不是很相關的大陸委員會的邱隨正委員來這邊做一個演講那想要詢問一下尤其是他後來的情況在文中講到說如何嗜讀中國要培養嗜讀中國的這個師資那您這個對於有什麼看法到底是中國跟中國中共 難道我們這裡面的學術裡面的很多的包括你用的是中文還有中國剛才你說的有些高的科技的部分的時候有些學術教的部分那怎麼部分講說\n786395\t807335\t這部分是不是已經政治的手已經伸到了大學知識這邊去請問您的態度是怎麼樣我想我基本的態度是這一個怎麼樣讓我們年輕人包括一個教育工作者能夠理解到國家的安全這一個其實包括歐美先進國家大概基本上的態度都一樣的也就是說我們怎麼樣讓我們年輕人\n810037\t836245\t有國家的認同然後有國家的意識甚至理解到可能對岸對台灣有一定程度的這些的干擾威脅我簡單來講就以統戰的統戰部所管轄的大學這在台灣我們不會有另外成立一個統戰部這就很清楚啊你剛剛所說那是學術交流這部可是現在就是用在教育部的人都對所有大學學校一百幾十所的部分\n838326\t845969\t那你這部份通過大學校長就去要求說整個大學的獨立自主這部份應該是這麼講說本身就應該有嗜讀到中國的部分跟文包括我們大學也都在開許多的國際關係兩岸的許多的一些這些相關的一些的課程那怎麼樣讓這個課程裡面我想我們所以我們以後教育部裡面會有師資裡面會有所謂的嗜讀中國的這個特別的師資去培育嗎\n867699\t878363\t我們不會有特別因為兩岸的一個關係它有一些戰略有一些所謂的來自於更高的一些國際關係上那就在國關領域上面去進行就好了你把它特別突出的時候我們在隔壁那麼近你這樣子一個敵對狀況我們逃鄉還有大概一百萬左右在那邊的時候敵對的關係我覺得我們更應該要理解共產黨它怎麼樣在思考對台灣\n891327\t917528\t國共產黨跟中國其實不是很像會不會完全要注意到這個差異性我也認同這個委員所提的我們事實上不是對中國而是對因為他的一個執政共產黨對台灣的長期的一些威脅跟不友善我想我們怎麼樣能夠讓年輕人包括校長能夠理解國家現在所面臨的一些國際上邊緣政治跟許多的一些挑戰我想過去他\n919491\t922227\t過去兩岸的關係互動良好我們事實上\n923393\t952667\t在許多的課程也就變成比較一個國際關係的一個角色那這一次確實因為這一個對岸對台灣有比較相對多的一些干擾那我想我們讓大學所以您是採取的是一個提醒的態度但是我想知道您一定要堅守對大學學術自主的這個原則好不好這一個毋庸置疑我想我也跟委員一樣我來自於大學我想學術的自由自主這一個我們一定可以尊重\n953087\t956757\t希望你把握的分際要很清楚而且一定要保護那是台灣的一個資產謝謝謝謝謝謝劉書斌委員\n","txt":"謝謝趙偉 那有請鄭部長好 有請部長貝子荀 謝謝\n委員好 鄭部長好那我來自於高教界所以我關心的是少子化對於我們高教的影響包括的是看到有在徵收境外生那另外一部分就是在對於比較弱勢這部分需要退場的這樣的一個機制我要想做一下詢問下一頁\n我們看到在這邊目前的退場有兩種機制一種是高中以上的私立學校的退場機制另外一個是私校法但是我們看到它在適用的條件上面有不一樣前面的話是在於說如果已經確定它是財務惡化 私資不符合法規 欠薪或是違反相關規定就是由教育部該是主動的去做一個\n試用那另外一部分我們也看到方式是在私校他利用的是說他認為有辦學有治案難行或是遇到重大錯困難的時候他不能夠繼續去辦理之後他可以申請就是向教育部提出來做停辦這個部分那我現在這個問題是說那這個程序差異性尤其在私校法這邊目前算是叫大漢的這個科技大學\n他當初還有去年他就申請了如果再往下看的時候大家看一下他事實上呢他就是有還有500多名學生然後26位教師還有8000多萬財務還算可以但是就是在很快的時間之內我們再往下看的時候那個條例上看到說\n三四個月之內就被申請停招然後呢就申請了然後就八月去年的時候就申請停辦了在這個情況之下想問一下這麼快的行程教育部有針對大漢的部分提出這個提出學校諮詢會的這樣的一個建制去做這部分嗎\n有吧剛點頭的是有跟委員報告這個程序都要經過私校諮詢會所以有提理由是為什麼可以同意理由就是說這個學校因為這幾年來整個招生的狀況是逐年在下降以他113年其實招不到100個學生\n所以學校希望在還有現金的狀況之下來對於老師因為學校要停辦了他的一些離退給予最優厚的補償所以這些現金主要是要來提供老師這樣的一個退場後的一個補償\n還有學生的安置所以以大漢停辦之後他的學生安置目前我們已經也全部都安置到鄰近的學校而且學校也提供每個學生一萬五的補助所以你們認為是說這個八千萬元是足夠讓他們可以處理的是不是\n是 可是萬一如果不夠 這也是很重要的語言講那我們往上看這一部分 第一頁的這一部分那這個地方呢 因為退場條例它只適用在是教育部主動去發掘到的問題有預警嘛等等的 但是它並不適用到那些私效法這些部分\n當然會不會出現到說如果萬一而且我們現在看到的是說大漢這一部分呢他對於有些他在花蓮可是他的學生要到宜蘭去念書就分到這邊去了那這種情況之下這個八千塊錢或是說八千萬的部分夠嗎等等還包括是說\n退場的這個部分退場的這個基金上面不能夠去適用到適用到失效法嗎你當初的考量為什麼要兩步如果萬億到你們現在有的八千萬其實是當初他給你的自滅數字可是在實際上發現到他只是隱瞞了這種情況等等的是不是有必要說說把它變成一套就是你也是主動的去做監督有沒有這個必要性\n好跟委員報告喔退場條例針對的是學校因為不管在財務在師資在教學已經是沒有辦法提供一個正常的這樣的一個情況之下那我們經過我們退場條例審議委員會那我現在的問題是會列為專輔學校\n是不是可以適用到私校法之便他如果已經進入到要退場的情況甚至就是要停辦那這樣的情況是不是能夠好好的去做處理他假如還沒有被列為專案輔導學校之前他都可以用私校法所以你的意思是說這個部分就把它缺分因為你們當初已經評斷他的財務是可以的所以不需要就是即使他未來發生到一些問題的情況但是這件可能沒有必要去處理\n是但是如果真的發生的話你們會處理嗎\n跟委員報告我們其實以大漢為例就是因為他自己發現他已經招生學生身影已經沒有辦法確定了然後他學校的校務基金還沒有到因為現在有學生到後面到花蓮從花蓮到宜蘭去這些部分目前都有爭議出來所以才想說這部分能夠更廣泛的去了解另外我想要再了解的是再回到原來的第一頁當中可以看到是說那基金的退場基金這一部分我們看往下看\n這邊我看到在櫃部裡面所提出來的這個預算可以看到說在114年的時候然後墊付了13億多的錢但是回收2億\n應該是兩千多萬這種情況那這個情況實際墊幅到13億多那請問一下怎麼會有這麼大的差距墊幅的怎麼回收呢我們已經付出去了好 跟委員報告因為目前這些停辦要退場學校的校產目前都在處理進行中\n縣市政府例如說我們的中州就是彰化縣政府大同技術學院就是嘉義縣嘉義市這些縣市政府要承接這些退場學校的校產那他會針對這些學校跟基金申請電付的這個額度他會用購置校產的方式回\n回來給我們基金所以這個陸續會逐年會回到基金來所以目前的帳上看到基金還是有墊付蠻大塊的那但是後續整個校產回到各部會使用之後他就會逐年編預算給基金的這塊我們都已經有有在做這樣的一個處理所以基金會逐年來回補\n那現在包括的是因為這些學校的校產包括剛剛看到的全球科技大學去年的時候也被說要停招嘛這樣的情況之下有一個很大的問題是他們的當初的財產事實上是教育部也花了很多的\n這個公家的資源去投注嘛對不對所以這部分絕對請大家請教育部這邊要去了解到它實際上在運作的時候這個翹傘因為我可以看到你們報告當中說針對地方政府等等的都有去好好去做可是這點我想是不是請教育部這邊特別是針對目前要退場的部分給我一個報告就是說目前處於到什麼狀況它翹傘尤其是大旱這一部分我們看到是它大概就有14多公頃可是很大的一個面積上面如果沒有好好去運用的話或是跟怎麼樣的它去轉型可是還是有\n有屬於公共利益的部分公共財產的這部分怎麼去讓真正回歸到公共利益去處理好嗎好謝謝然後另外呢我們再往下看這邊好就是剛才我說的這個地產就是所謂的公共財產要活化那我們繼續往下面看這個問題我進入到一個問題在於說現在的這個學生這部分\n好 那學生這部分我們看到的是好 我們也許就往下好了因為這部分我看到的是說因為 好 我們再往上看一下好了退場這些部分因為剛才可能是市長這邊有特別去了解是市長嘛有特別去針對說是你們去主動了解那我現在想問的因為目前看到的是每年從114萬到128萬平均單位還會少3到4萬每年平均是這樣的狀況之下那\n預計你們對於什麼樣的學校他會進入到退場的這樣的一個名單當中有沒有什麼標準\n或是大概還有多少的比例的學校會進入到這個地方跟委員報告啊 部裡面沒有所謂的大學最後會變成極所這樣的沒有沒有 就是什麼樣條件 什麼樣條件只要學校 就剛才提到 只要學校的財務正常不會欠老師薪水該給學生的教學資源都要提供這是一個最基本再來教學品質一定要符合\n該有的教學品質等等這一些條件只要它符合了不會退場所以你們就是時常都有這個定期在監督對不對有 我們都定期在檢核這部分我想也是保護我們的私藝學校那謝謝我們繼續下回到一個議題再說\n看到交易部今年已經宣布禁止我國跟十所大陸的學校作為一個交流中研院這邊也做了一個回應就是說他們因為是中研院主動的去做這樣的一個交流所以他沒有控管得很清楚那現在的問題是說學術交流的準則是在哪裡當然我想問的是說有沒有中國在科研或是學術領域是國際間佼佼者這一部分請部長回答\n謝謝文這個指教就是我們這裡邊除了這個統戰部因為我們一般我們希望兩岸是一個這一個\n等於說一個友善一個有序的一個交流健康有序的一個交流所以我們對一個大學本來他是一個追求知識科技是一個自由環境下的一個學術發展那他把三所學校歸為統戰部那他的一個目的跟人才的培育跟我們大學的宗旨是不太一樣的\n所以你是說 你的意思是說只要被統戰部列為一個單獨的項目的話你們就會把它列為禁止交流是嗎還有軍事學校這個部分涉及到機敏基科技還有一些我們產業的競爭我們這個禁止交流其他像北京 復旦 清華這些我們並沒有禁止交流甚至我們學生過去那邊讀書我們也沒有禁止\n這我們尊重學生的一個選擇所以目前時鎖就是有軍事或是統戰的對不對三鎖統戰的跟國王七鎖這七鎖那這樣子就很清楚了不然可能學生們他們想說因為有些在什麼唐太的部分還有在電動的電磁這部分事實上他們是在優惠的\n以兩岸現在的一個關係我們還是保留一個開放的一個但是相當程度當如果這個對岸對台灣是比較不友善的因為包含到現在他事實上也沒有開放陸生來到台灣好那我現在了解了謝謝你講那謝謝部長我們再最後一個這個問題在這邊我們想問一下今年的時候大學校長會議那我想問一下再上一頁請問一下請部長說一下大學校長會議舉行的意義是什麼\n講大學校長的會議當然有一個是因為他算是台灣最重要的一個人才培育的場域那彼此透過一個會議來思考高等教育的人才怎麼樣來培育然後怎麼樣因應世界各國在人才培育上的一些挑戰當然也一定有競爭有合作有競爭那我們共同集思廣益包含我們怎麼樣把這些的一些人才培育包括科研的研究能夠形成一個\n這一個高等教育的一些政策我想這都是謝謝部長那我們現在往下院看可是今年你所說的這部分我們看到這個主題是說跨域自主多元連結但是呢你前面邀請的這個包括中研院長等等什麼校長來都很好啊但是就出現了一個跟教育\n業務可能不是很相關的大陸委員會的邱隨正委員來這邊做一個演講那想要詢問一下尤其是他後來的情況在文中講到說如何嗜讀中國要培養嗜讀中國的這個師資那您這個對於有什麼看法到底是中國跟中國中共 難道我們這裡面的學術裡面的很多的包括你用的是中文還有中國剛才你說的有些高的科技的部分的時候有些學術教的部分那怎麼部分講說\n這部分是不是已經政治的手已經伸到了大學知識這邊去請問您的態度是怎麼樣我想我基本的態度是這一個怎麼樣讓我們年輕人包括一個教育工作者能夠理解到國家的安全這一個其實包括歐美先進國家大概基本上的態度都一樣的也就是說我們怎麼樣讓我們年輕人\n有國家的認同然後有國家的意識甚至理解到可能對岸對台灣有一定程度的這些的干擾威脅我簡單來講就以統戰的統戰部所管轄的大學這在台灣我們不會有另外成立一個統戰部這就很清楚啊你剛剛所說那是學術交流這部可是現在就是用在教育部的人都對所有大學學校一百幾十所的部分\n那你這部份通過大學校長就去要求說整個大學的獨立自主這部份應該是這麼講說本身就應該有嗜讀到中國的部分跟文包括我們大學也都在開許多的國際關係兩岸的許多的一些這些相關的一些的課程那怎麼樣讓這個課程裡面我想我們所以我們以後教育部裡面會有師資裡面會有所謂的嗜讀中國的這個特別的師資去培育嗎\n我們不會有特別因為兩岸的一個關係它有一些戰略有一些所謂的來自於更高的一些國際關係上那就在國關領域上面去進行就好了你把它特別突出的時候我們在隔壁那麼近你這樣子一個敵對狀況我們逃鄉還有大概一百萬左右在那邊的時候敵對的關係我覺得我們更應該要理解共產黨它怎麼樣在思考對台灣\n國共產黨跟中國其實不是很像會不會完全要注意到這個差異性我也認同這個委員所提的我們事實上不是對中國而是對因為他的一個執政共產黨對台灣的長期的一些威脅跟不友善我想我們怎麼樣能夠讓年輕人包括校長能夠理解國家現在所面臨的一些國際上邊緣政治跟許多的一些挑戰我想過去他\n過去兩岸的關係互動良好我們事實上\n在許多的課程也就變成比較一個國際關係的一個角色那這一次確實因為這一個對岸對台灣有比較相對多的一些干擾那我想我們讓大學所以您是採取的是一個提醒的態度但是我想知道您一定要堅守對大學學術自主的這個原則好不好這一個毋庸置疑我想我也跟委員一樣我來自於大學我想學術的自由自主這一個我們一定可以尊重\n希望你把握的分際要很清楚而且一定要保護那是台灣的一個資產謝謝謝謝謝謝劉書斌委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.009 --> 00:00.749\n謝謝趙偉那有請鄭部長好有請部長貝子荀謝謝\n\n00:24.622 --> 00:44.256\n委員好鄭部長好那我來自於高教界所以我關心的是少子化對於我們高教的影響包括的是看到有在徵收境外生那另外一部分就是在對於比較弱勢這部分需要退場的這樣的一個機制我要想做一下詢問下一頁\n\n00:46.377 --> 01:14.074\n我們看到在這邊目前的退場有兩種機制一種是高中以上的私立學校的退場機制另外一個是私校法但是我們看到它在適用的條件上面有不一樣前面的話是在於說如果已經確定它是財務惡化私資不符合法規欠薪或是違反相關規定就是由教育部該是主動的去做一個\n\n01:15.875 --> 01:37.869\n試用那另外一部分我們也看到方式是在私校他利用的是說他認為有辦學有治案難行或是遇到重大錯困難的時候他不能夠繼續去辦理之後他可以申請就是向教育部提出來做停辦這個部分那我現在這個問題是說那這個程序差異性尤其在私校法這邊目前算是叫大漢的這個科技大學\n\n01:41.550 --> 01:59.875\n他當初還有去年他就申請了如果再往下看的時候大家看一下他事實上呢他就是有還有500多名學生然後26位教師還有8000多萬財務還算可以但是就是在很快的時間之內我們再往下看的時候那個條例上看到說\n\n02:01.375 --> 02:18.655\n三四個月之內就被申請停招然後呢就申請了然後就八月去年的時候就申請停辦了在這個情況之下想問一下這麼快的行程教育部有針對大漢的部分提出這個提出學校諮詢會的這樣的一個建制去做這部分嗎\n\n02:20.287 --> 02:27.050\n有吧剛點頭的是有跟委員報告這個程序都要經過私校諮詢會所以有提理由是為什麼可以同意理由就是說這個學校因為這幾年來整個招生的狀況是逐年在下降以他113年其實招不到100個學生\n\n02:39.456 --> 02:44.022\n所以學校希望在還有現金的狀況之下來對於老師因為學校要停辦了他的一些離退給予最優厚的補償所以這些現金主要是要來提供老師這樣的一個退場後的一個補償\n\n02:59.199 --> 03:02.023\n還有學生的安置所以以大漢停辦之後他的學生安置目前我們已經也全部都安置到鄰近的學校而且學校也提供每個學生一萬五的補助所以你們認為是說這個八千萬元是足夠讓他們可以處理的是不是\n\n03:18.402 --> 03:37.144\n是可是萬一如果不夠這也是很重要的語言講那我們往上看這一部分第一頁的這一部分那這個地方呢因為退場條例它只適用在是教育部主動去發掘到的問題有預警嘛等等的但是它並不適用到那些私效法這些部分\n\n03:37.725 --> 03:54.631\n當然會不會出現到說如果萬一而且我們現在看到的是說大漢這一部分呢他對於有些他在花蓮可是他的學生要到宜蘭去念書就分到這邊去了那這種情況之下這個八千塊錢或是說八千萬的部分夠嗎等等還包括是說\n\n03:55.971 --> 04:17.184\n退場的這個部分退場的這個基金上面不能夠去適用到適用到失效法嗎你當初的考量為什麼要兩步如果萬億到你們現在有的八千萬其實是當初他給你的自滅數字可是在實際上發現到他只是隱瞞了這種情況等等的是不是有必要說說把它變成一套就是你也是主動的去做監督有沒有這個必要性\n\n04:18.044 --> 04:21.887\n好跟委員報告喔退場條例針對的是學校因為不管在財務在師資在教學已經是沒有辦法提供一個正常的這樣的一個情況之下那我們經過我們退場條例審議委員會那我現在的問題是會列為專輔學校\n\n04:38.078 --> 05:07.010\n是不是可以適用到私校法之便他如果已經進入到要退場的情況甚至就是要停辦那這樣的情況是不是能夠好好的去做處理他假如還沒有被列為專案輔導學校之前他都可以用私校法所以你的意思是說這個部分就把它缺分因為你們當初已經評斷他的財務是可以的所以不需要就是即使他未來發生到一些問題的情況但是這件可能沒有必要去處理\n\n05:08.051 --> 05:10.041\n是但是如果真的發生的話你們會處理嗎\n\n05:12.613 --> 05:40.931\n跟委員報告我們其實以大漢為例就是因為他自己發現他已經招生學生身影已經沒有辦法確定了然後他學校的校務基金還沒有到因為現在有學生到後面到花蓮從花蓮到宜蘭去這些部分目前都有爭議出來所以才想說這部分能夠更廣泛的去了解另外我想要再了解的是再回到原來的第一頁當中可以看到是說那基金的退場基金這一部分我們看往下看\n\n05:42.693 --> 05:52.442\n這邊我看到在櫃部裡面所提出來的這個預算可以看到說在114年的時候然後墊付了13億多的錢但是回收2億\n\n05:55.490 --> 05:59.654\n應該是兩千多萬這種情況那這個情況實際墊幅到13億多那請問一下怎麼會有這麼大的差距墊幅的怎麼回收呢我們已經付出去了好跟委員報告因為目前這些停辦要退場學校的校產目前都在處理進行中\n\n06:19.254 --> 06:41.175\n縣市政府例如說我們的中州就是彰化縣政府大同技術學院就是嘉義縣嘉義市這些縣市政府要承接這些退場學校的校產那他會針對這些學校跟基金申請電付的這個額度他會用購置校產的方式回\n\n06:42.296 --> 06:46.239\n回來給我們基金所以這個陸續會逐年會回到基金來所以目前的帳上看到基金還是有墊付蠻大塊的那但是後續整個校產回到各部會使用之後他就會逐年編預算給基金的這塊我們都已經有有在做這樣的一個處理所以基金會逐年來回補\n\n07:05.070 --> 07:12.436\n那現在包括的是因為這些學校的校產包括剛剛看到的全球科技大學去年的時候也被說要停招嘛這樣的情況之下有一個很大的問題是他們的當初的財產事實上是教育部也花了很多的\n\n07:20.642 --> 07:49.305\n這個公家的資源去投注嘛對不對所以這部分絕對請大家請教育部這邊要去了解到它實際上在運作的時候這個翹傘因為我可以看到你們報告當中說針對地方政府等等的都有去好好去做可是這點我想是不是請教育部這邊特別是針對目前要退場的部分給我一個報告就是說目前處於到什麼狀況它翹傘尤其是大旱這一部分我們看到是它大概就有14多公頃可是很大的一個面積上面如果沒有好好去運用的話或是跟怎麼樣的它去轉型可是還是有\n\n07:49.645 --> 08:10.733\n有屬於公共利益的部分公共財產的這部分怎麼去讓真正回歸到公共利益去處理好嗎好謝謝然後另外呢我們再往下看這邊好就是剛才我說的這個地產就是所謂的公共財產要活化那我們繼續往下面看這個問題我進入到一個問題在於說現在的這個學生這部分\n\n08:11.713 --> 08:35.367\n好那學生這部分我們看到的是好我們也許就往下好了因為這部分我看到的是說因為好我們再往上看一下好了退場這些部分因為剛才可能是市長這邊有特別去了解是市長嘛有特別去針對說是你們去主動了解那我現在想問的因為目前看到的是每年從114萬到128萬平均單位還會少3到4萬每年平均是這樣的狀況之下那\n\n08:41.614 --> 08:46.186\n預計你們對於什麼樣的學校他會進入到退場的這樣的一個名單當中有沒有什麼標準\n\n08:48.288 --> 09:01.415\n或是大概還有多少的比例的學校會進入到這個地方跟委員報告啊部裡面沒有所謂的大學最後會變成極所這樣的沒有沒有就是什麼樣條件什麼樣條件只要學校就剛才提到只要學校的財務正常不會欠老師薪水該給學生的教學資源都要提供這是一個最基本再來教學品質一定要符合\n\n09:14.702 --> 09:27.567\n該有的教學品質等等這一些條件只要它符合了不會退場所以你們就是時常都有這個定期在監督對不對有我們都定期在檢核這部分我想也是保護我們的私藝學校那謝謝我們繼續下回到一個議題再說\n\n09:30.168 --> 09:54.583\n看到交易部今年已經宣布禁止我國跟十所大陸的學校作為一個交流中研院這邊也做了一個回應就是說他們因為是中研院主動的去做這樣的一個交流所以他沒有控管得很清楚那現在的問題是說學術交流的準則是在哪裡當然我想問的是說有沒有中國在科研或是學術領域是國際間佼佼者這一部分請部長回答\n\n09:55.706 --> 10:02.539\n謝謝文這個指教就是我們這裡邊除了這個統戰部因為我們一般我們希望兩岸是一個這一個\n\n10:05.233 --> 10:27.484\n等於說一個友善一個有序的一個交流健康有序的一個交流所以我們對一個大學本來他是一個追求知識科技是一個自由環境下的一個學術發展那他把三所學校歸為統戰部那他的一個目的跟人才的培育跟我們大學的宗旨是不太一樣的\n\n10:27.904 --> 10:54.149\n所以你是說你的意思是說只要被統戰部列為一個單獨的項目的話你們就會把它列為禁止交流是嗎還有軍事學校這個部分涉及到機敏基科技還有一些我們產業的競爭我們這個禁止交流其他像北京復旦清華這些我們並沒有禁止交流甚至我們學生過去那邊讀書我們也沒有禁止\n\n10:56.789 --> 11:00.032\n這我們尊重學生的一個選擇所以目前時鎖就是有軍事或是統戰的對不對三鎖統戰的跟國王七鎖這七鎖那這樣子就很清楚了不然可能學生們他們想說因為有些在什麼唐太的部分還有在電動的電磁這部分事實上他們是在優惠的\n\n11:18.672 --> 11:47.162\n以兩岸現在的一個關係我們還是保留一個開放的一個但是相當程度當如果這個對岸對台灣是比較不友善的因為包含到現在他事實上也沒有開放陸生來到台灣好那我現在了解了謝謝你講那謝謝部長我們再最後一個這個問題在這邊我們想問一下今年的時候大學校長會議那我想問一下再上一頁請問一下請部長說一下大學校長會議舉行的意義是什麼\n\n11:49.116 --> 12:17.371\n講大學校長的會議當然有一個是因為他算是台灣最重要的一個人才培育的場域那彼此透過一個會議來思考高等教育的人才怎麼樣來培育然後怎麼樣因應世界各國在人才培育上的一些挑戰當然也一定有競爭有合作有競爭那我們共同集思廣益包含我們怎麼樣把這些的一些人才培育包括科研的研究能夠形成一個\n\n12:18.352 --> 12:33.006\n這一個高等教育的一些政策我想這都是謝謝部長那我們現在往下院看可是今年你所說的這部分我們看到這個主題是說跨域自主多元連結但是呢你前面邀請的這個包括中研院長等等什麼校長來都很好啊但是就出現了一個跟教育\n\n12:37.710 --> 12:45.591\n業務可能不是很相關的大陸委員會的邱隨正委員來這邊做一個演講那想要詢問一下尤其是他後來的情況在文中講到說如何嗜讀中國要培養嗜讀中國的這個師資那您這個對於有什麼看法到底是中國跟中國中共難道我們這裡面的學術裡面的很多的包括你用的是中文還有中國剛才你說的有些高的科技的部分的時候有些學術教的部分那怎麼部分講說\n\n13:06.395 --> 13:27.335\n這部分是不是已經政治的手已經伸到了大學知識這邊去請問您的態度是怎麼樣我想我基本的態度是這一個怎麼樣讓我們年輕人包括一個教育工作者能夠理解到國家的安全這一個其實包括歐美先進國家大概基本上的態度都一樣的也就是說我們怎麼樣讓我們年輕人\n\n13:30.037 --> 13:56.245\n有國家的認同然後有國家的意識甚至理解到可能對岸對台灣有一定程度的這些的干擾威脅我簡單來講就以統戰的統戰部所管轄的大學這在台灣我們不會有另外成立一個統戰部這就很清楚啊你剛剛所說那是學術交流這部可是現在就是用在教育部的人都對所有大學學校一百幾十所的部分\n\n13:58.326 --> 14:05.969\n那你這部份通過大學校長就去要求說整個大學的獨立自主這部份應該是這麼講說本身就應該有嗜讀到中國的部分跟文包括我們大學也都在開許多的國際關係兩岸的許多的一些這些相關的一些的課程那怎麼樣讓這個課程裡面我想我們所以我們以後教育部裡面會有師資裡面會有所謂的嗜讀中國的這個特別的師資去培育嗎\n\n14:27.699 --> 14:38.363\n我們不會有特別因為兩岸的一個關係它有一些戰略有一些所謂的來自於更高的一些國際關係上那就在國關領域上面去進行就好了你把它特別突出的時候我們在隔壁那麼近你這樣子一個敵對狀況我們逃鄉還有大概一百萬左右在那邊的時候敵對的關係我覺得我們更應該要理解共產黨它怎麼樣在思考對台灣\n\n14:51.327 --> 15:17.528\n國共產黨跟中國其實不是很像會不會完全要注意到這個差異性我也認同這個委員所提的我們事實上不是對中國而是對因為他的一個執政共產黨對台灣的長期的一些威脅跟不友善我想我們怎麼樣能夠讓年輕人包括校長能夠理解國家現在所面臨的一些國際上邊緣政治跟許多的一些挑戰我想過去他\n\n15:19.491 --> 15:22.227\n過去兩岸的關係互動良好我們事實上\n\n15:23.393 --> 15:52.667\n在許多的課程也就變成比較一個國際關係的一個角色那這一次確實因為這一個對岸對台灣有比較相對多的一些干擾那我想我們讓大學所以您是採取的是一個提醒的態度但是我想知道您一定要堅守對大學學術自主的這個原則好不好這一個毋庸置疑我想我也跟委員一樣我來自於大學我想學術的自由自主這一個我們一定可以尊重\n\n15:53.087 --> 15:56.757\n希望你把握的分際要很清楚而且一定要保護那是台灣的一個資產謝謝謝謝謝謝劉書斌委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.009,"end":0.749,"text":"謝謝趙偉 那有請鄭部長好 有請部長貝子荀 謝謝"},{"start":24.622,"end":44.256,"text":"委員好 鄭部長好那我來自於高教界所以我關心的是少子化對於我們高教的影響包括的是看到有在徵收境外生那另外一部分就是在對於比較弱勢這部分需要退場的這樣的一個機制我要想做一下詢問下一頁"},{"start":46.377,"end":74.074,"text":"我們看到在這邊目前的退場有兩種機制一種是高中以上的私立學校的退場機制另外一個是私校法但是我們看到它在適用的條件上面有不一樣前面的話是在於說如果已經確定它是財務惡化 私資不符合法規 欠薪或是違反相關規定就是由教育部該是主動的去做一個"},{"start":75.875,"end":97.869,"text":"試用那另外一部分我們也看到方式是在私校他利用的是說他認為有辦學有治案難行或是遇到重大錯困難的時候他不能夠繼續去辦理之後他可以申請就是向教育部提出來做停辦這個部分那我現在這個問題是說那這個程序差異性尤其在私校法這邊目前算是叫大漢的這個科技大學"},{"start":101.55,"end":119.875,"text":"他當初還有去年他就申請了如果再往下看的時候大家看一下他事實上呢他就是有還有500多名學生然後26位教師還有8000多萬財務還算可以但是就是在很快的時間之內我們再往下看的時候那個條例上看到說"},{"start":121.375,"end":138.655,"text":"三四個月之內就被申請停招然後呢就申請了然後就八月去年的時候就申請停辦了在這個情況之下想問一下這麼快的行程教育部有針對大漢的部分提出這個提出學校諮詢會的這樣的一個建制去做這部分嗎"},{"start":140.287,"end":147.05,"text":"有吧剛點頭的是有跟委員報告這個程序都要經過私校諮詢會所以有提理由是為什麼可以同意理由就是說這個學校因為這幾年來整個招生的狀況是逐年在下降以他113年其實招不到100個學生"},{"start":159.456,"end":164.022,"text":"所以學校希望在還有現金的狀況之下來對於老師因為學校要停辦了他的一些離退給予最優厚的補償所以這些現金主要是要來提供老師這樣的一個退場後的一個補償"},{"start":179.199,"end":182.023,"text":"還有學生的安置所以以大漢停辦之後他的學生安置目前我們已經也全部都安置到鄰近的學校而且學校也提供每個學生一萬五的補助所以你們認為是說這個八千萬元是足夠讓他們可以處理的是不是"},{"start":198.402,"end":217.144,"text":"是 可是萬一如果不夠 這也是很重要的語言講那我們往上看這一部分 第一頁的這一部分那這個地方呢 因為退場條例它只適用在是教育部主動去發掘到的問題有預警嘛等等的 但是它並不適用到那些私效法這些部分"},{"start":217.725,"end":234.631,"text":"當然會不會出現到說如果萬一而且我們現在看到的是說大漢這一部分呢他對於有些他在花蓮可是他的學生要到宜蘭去念書就分到這邊去了那這種情況之下這個八千塊錢或是說八千萬的部分夠嗎等等還包括是說"},{"start":235.971,"end":257.184,"text":"退場的這個部分退場的這個基金上面不能夠去適用到適用到失效法嗎你當初的考量為什麼要兩步如果萬億到你們現在有的八千萬其實是當初他給你的自滅數字可是在實際上發現到他只是隱瞞了這種情況等等的是不是有必要說說把它變成一套就是你也是主動的去做監督有沒有這個必要性"},{"start":258.044,"end":261.887,"text":"好跟委員報告喔退場條例針對的是學校因為不管在財務在師資在教學已經是沒有辦法提供一個正常的這樣的一個情況之下那我們經過我們退場條例審議委員會那我現在的問題是會列為專輔學校"},{"start":278.078,"end":307.01,"text":"是不是可以適用到私校法之便他如果已經進入到要退場的情況甚至就是要停辦那這樣的情況是不是能夠好好的去做處理他假如還沒有被列為專案輔導學校之前他都可以用私校法所以你的意思是說這個部分就把它缺分因為你們當初已經評斷他的財務是可以的所以不需要就是即使他未來發生到一些問題的情況但是這件可能沒有必要去處理"},{"start":308.051,"end":310.041,"text":"是但是如果真的發生的話你們會處理嗎"},{"start":312.613,"end":340.931,"text":"跟委員報告我們其實以大漢為例就是因為他自己發現他已經招生學生身影已經沒有辦法確定了然後他學校的校務基金還沒有到因為現在有學生到後面到花蓮從花蓮到宜蘭去這些部分目前都有爭議出來所以才想說這部分能夠更廣泛的去了解另外我想要再了解的是再回到原來的第一頁當中可以看到是說那基金的退場基金這一部分我們看往下看"},{"start":342.693,"end":352.442,"text":"這邊我看到在櫃部裡面所提出來的這個預算可以看到說在114年的時候然後墊付了13億多的錢但是回收2億"},{"start":355.49,"end":359.654,"text":"應該是兩千多萬這種情況那這個情況實際墊幅到13億多那請問一下怎麼會有這麼大的差距墊幅的怎麼回收呢我們已經付出去了好 跟委員報告因為目前這些停辦要退場學校的校產目前都在處理進行中"},{"start":379.254,"end":401.175,"text":"縣市政府例如說我們的中州就是彰化縣政府大同技術學院就是嘉義縣嘉義市這些縣市政府要承接這些退場學校的校產那他會針對這些學校跟基金申請電付的這個額度他會用購置校產的方式回"},{"start":402.296,"end":406.239,"text":"回來給我們基金所以這個陸續會逐年會回到基金來所以目前的帳上看到基金還是有墊付蠻大塊的那但是後續整個校產回到各部會使用之後他就會逐年編預算給基金的這塊我們都已經有有在做這樣的一個處理所以基金會逐年來回補"},{"start":425.07,"end":432.436,"text":"那現在包括的是因為這些學校的校產包括剛剛看到的全球科技大學去年的時候也被說要停招嘛這樣的情況之下有一個很大的問題是他們的當初的財產事實上是教育部也花了很多的"},{"start":440.642,"end":469.305,"text":"這個公家的資源去投注嘛對不對所以這部分絕對請大家請教育部這邊要去了解到它實際上在運作的時候這個翹傘因為我可以看到你們報告當中說針對地方政府等等的都有去好好去做可是這點我想是不是請教育部這邊特別是針對目前要退場的部分給我一個報告就是說目前處於到什麼狀況它翹傘尤其是大旱這一部分我們看到是它大概就有14多公頃可是很大的一個面積上面如果沒有好好去運用的話或是跟怎麼樣的它去轉型可是還是有"},{"start":469.645,"end":490.733,"text":"有屬於公共利益的部分公共財產的這部分怎麼去讓真正回歸到公共利益去處理好嗎好謝謝然後另外呢我們再往下看這邊好就是剛才我說的這個地產就是所謂的公共財產要活化那我們繼續往下面看這個問題我進入到一個問題在於說現在的這個學生這部分"},{"start":491.713,"end":515.367,"text":"好 那學生這部分我們看到的是好 我們也許就往下好了因為這部分我看到的是說因為 好 我們再往上看一下好了退場這些部分因為剛才可能是市長這邊有特別去了解是市長嘛有特別去針對說是你們去主動了解那我現在想問的因為目前看到的是每年從114萬到128萬平均單位還會少3到4萬每年平均是這樣的狀況之下那"},{"start":521.614,"end":526.186,"text":"預計你們對於什麼樣的學校他會進入到退場的這樣的一個名單當中有沒有什麼標準"},{"start":528.288,"end":541.415,"text":"或是大概還有多少的比例的學校會進入到這個地方跟委員報告啊 部裡面沒有所謂的大學最後會變成極所這樣的沒有沒有 就是什麼樣條件 什麼樣條件只要學校 就剛才提到 只要學校的財務正常不會欠老師薪水該給學生的教學資源都要提供這是一個最基本再來教學品質一定要符合"},{"start":554.702,"end":567.567,"text":"該有的教學品質等等這一些條件只要它符合了不會退場所以你們就是時常都有這個定期在監督對不對有 我們都定期在檢核這部分我想也是保護我們的私藝學校那謝謝我們繼續下回到一個議題再說"},{"start":570.168,"end":594.583,"text":"看到交易部今年已經宣布禁止我國跟十所大陸的學校作為一個交流中研院這邊也做了一個回應就是說他們因為是中研院主動的去做這樣的一個交流所以他沒有控管得很清楚那現在的問題是說學術交流的準則是在哪裡當然我想問的是說有沒有中國在科研或是學術領域是國際間佼佼者這一部分請部長回答"},{"start":595.706,"end":602.539,"text":"謝謝文這個指教就是我們這裡邊除了這個統戰部因為我們一般我們希望兩岸是一個這一個"},{"start":605.233,"end":627.484,"text":"等於說一個友善一個有序的一個交流健康有序的一個交流所以我們對一個大學本來他是一個追求知識科技是一個自由環境下的一個學術發展那他把三所學校歸為統戰部那他的一個目的跟人才的培育跟我們大學的宗旨是不太一樣的"},{"start":627.904,"end":654.149,"text":"所以你是說 你的意思是說只要被統戰部列為一個單獨的項目的話你們就會把它列為禁止交流是嗎還有軍事學校這個部分涉及到機敏基科技還有一些我們產業的競爭我們這個禁止交流其他像北京 復旦 清華這些我們並沒有禁止交流甚至我們學生過去那邊讀書我們也沒有禁止"},{"start":656.789,"end":660.032,"text":"這我們尊重學生的一個選擇所以目前時鎖就是有軍事或是統戰的對不對三鎖統戰的跟國王七鎖這七鎖那這樣子就很清楚了不然可能學生們他們想說因為有些在什麼唐太的部分還有在電動的電磁這部分事實上他們是在優惠的"},{"start":678.672,"end":707.162,"text":"以兩岸現在的一個關係我們還是保留一個開放的一個但是相當程度當如果這個對岸對台灣是比較不友善的因為包含到現在他事實上也沒有開放陸生來到台灣好那我現在了解了謝謝你講那謝謝部長我們再最後一個這個問題在這邊我們想問一下今年的時候大學校長會議那我想問一下再上一頁請問一下請部長說一下大學校長會議舉行的意義是什麼"},{"start":709.116,"end":737.371,"text":"講大學校長的會議當然有一個是因為他算是台灣最重要的一個人才培育的場域那彼此透過一個會議來思考高等教育的人才怎麼樣來培育然後怎麼樣因應世界各國在人才培育上的一些挑戰當然也一定有競爭有合作有競爭那我們共同集思廣益包含我們怎麼樣把這些的一些人才培育包括科研的研究能夠形成一個"},{"start":738.352,"end":753.006,"text":"這一個高等教育的一些政策我想這都是謝謝部長那我們現在往下院看可是今年你所說的這部分我們看到這個主題是說跨域自主多元連結但是呢你前面邀請的這個包括中研院長等等什麼校長來都很好啊但是就出現了一個跟教育"},{"start":757.71,"end":765.591,"text":"業務可能不是很相關的大陸委員會的邱隨正委員來這邊做一個演講那想要詢問一下尤其是他後來的情況在文中講到說如何嗜讀中國要培養嗜讀中國的這個師資那您這個對於有什麼看法到底是中國跟中國中共 難道我們這裡面的學術裡面的很多的包括你用的是中文還有中國剛才你說的有些高的科技的部分的時候有些學術教的部分那怎麼部分講說"},{"start":786.395,"end":807.335,"text":"這部分是不是已經政治的手已經伸到了大學知識這邊去請問您的態度是怎麼樣我想我基本的態度是這一個怎麼樣讓我們年輕人包括一個教育工作者能夠理解到國家的安全這一個其實包括歐美先進國家大概基本上的態度都一樣的也就是說我們怎麼樣讓我們年輕人"},{"start":810.037,"end":836.245,"text":"有國家的認同然後有國家的意識甚至理解到可能對岸對台灣有一定程度的這些的干擾威脅我簡單來講就以統戰的統戰部所管轄的大學這在台灣我們不會有另外成立一個統戰部這就很清楚啊你剛剛所說那是學術交流這部可是現在就是用在教育部的人都對所有大學學校一百幾十所的部分"},{"start":838.326,"end":845.969,"text":"那你這部份通過大學校長就去要求說整個大學的獨立自主這部份應該是這麼講說本身就應該有嗜讀到中國的部分跟文包括我們大學也都在開許多的國際關係兩岸的許多的一些這些相關的一些的課程那怎麼樣讓這個課程裡面我想我們所以我們以後教育部裡面會有師資裡面會有所謂的嗜讀中國的這個特別的師資去培育嗎"},{"start":867.699,"end":878.363,"text":"我們不會有特別因為兩岸的一個關係它有一些戰略有一些所謂的來自於更高的一些國際關係上那就在國關領域上面去進行就好了你把它特別突出的時候我們在隔壁那麼近你這樣子一個敵對狀況我們逃鄉還有大概一百萬左右在那邊的時候敵對的關係我覺得我們更應該要理解共產黨它怎麼樣在思考對台灣"},{"start":891.327,"end":917.528,"text":"國共產黨跟中國其實不是很像會不會完全要注意到這個差異性我也認同這個委員所提的我們事實上不是對中國而是對因為他的一個執政共產黨對台灣的長期的一些威脅跟不友善我想我們怎麼樣能夠讓年輕人包括校長能夠理解國家現在所面臨的一些國際上邊緣政治跟許多的一些挑戰我想過去他"},{"start":919.491,"end":922.227,"text":"過去兩岸的關係互動良好我們事實上"},{"start":923.393,"end":952.667,"text":"在許多的課程也就變成比較一個國際關係的一個角色那這一次確實因為這一個對岸對台灣有比較相對多的一些干擾那我想我們讓大學所以您是採取的是一個提醒的態度但是我想知道您一定要堅守對大學學術自主的這個原則好不好這一個毋庸置疑我想我也跟委員一樣我來自於大學我想學術的自由自主這一個我們一定可以尊重"},{"start":953.087,"end":956.757,"text":"希望你把握的分際要很清楚而且一定要保護那是台灣的一個資產謝謝謝謝謝謝劉書斌委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":270,"blocks":[["劉委員書彬：（9時59分）謝謝召委，有請鄭部長。"],["主席（葛委員如鈞）：有請部長備質詢，謝謝。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好！"],["劉委員書彬：鄭部長好！我來自於高教界，所以我關心的是少子化對於我們高教的影響，包括看到有在招收境外生，另外一個部分，就是在對於比較弱勢這個部分需要退場的這樣一個機制，我想做一下詢問。","目前的退場有兩種機制，一種是高中以上私立學校的退場機制，另外一個是私校法。我們看到兩者在適用條件上面有不一樣，前面的是在於如果已經確定他是財務惡化、師資不符合法規、欠薪或者是違反相關規定，這應該是由教育部主動去做適用；另外一個我們看到的方式是私校認為辦學有窒礙難行，或是遇到重大困難不能夠繼續辦理，他可以申請，就是向教育部提出做停辦。","我現在的問題是這個程序差異性，尤其在私校法，像大漢技術學院，去年他就申請了，事實上，他還有五百多個學生、26位教師，以及八千多萬，財務還算可以，但是在很快的時間之內就核定，他去年4月申請，8月就核定了。在這個情況之下，想問一下，就這麼快的程序，教育部有針對大漢的部分提出學校諮詢會這樣的建置去處理嗎？有嘛！剛剛點頭是有？"],["楊司長玉惠：跟委員報告，這個程序都要經過私校諮詢會，所以有提。"],["劉委員書彬：理由是？為什麼可以同意？"],["楊司長玉惠：理由就是這個學校因為這幾年來整個招生狀況逐年在下降，以113年來看，他其實招不到100個學生，所以學校希望在還有現金的狀況之下對於老師的離退給予最優厚的補償，因為學校要停辦了，所以這些現金主要是要提供老師這樣的退場後補償，還有學生的安置，大漢停辦之後，就他的學生，目前我們已經全部都安置到鄰近的學校，學校也提供每個學生1萬5的補助……"],["劉委員書彬：所以你們認為這個八千萬元是可以足夠他們處理的，是不是？是。可是如果不夠，這就是很重要的原因之一。","我們往上看，因為退場條例只適用在教育部主動去發掘到問題，有預警的機制等等，私校法並不適用這些部分，所以會不會出現這些情況，我們現在看到，大漢在花蓮，可是他的學生有些要到宜蘭去念書，就分到那邊去了，這種情況之下，這個八千萬的部分夠嗎？還包括退場基金不能夠適用到私校法嗎？你當初的考量為什麼要兩部？如果這個八千萬其實是當初他給的字面數字，實際上，他是有所隱瞞這種情況等等的。所以是不是有必要把它變成一套，就是你也主動去做監督，有沒有這個必要性？"],["楊司長玉惠：跟委員報告，退場條例針對的是學校，當他不管在財務、在師資、在教學已經沒有辦法正常提供的情況之下，經過我們退場條例的審議會，會列為專輔學校……"],["劉委員書彬：對，我知道，我現在的問題是是不是可以適用到私校法？如果他已經進入到要退場的情況，甚至要停辦，這樣的情況是不是能夠好好的去做處理？"],["楊司長玉惠：他還沒有被列為專案輔導學校之前，都可以用私校法。"],["劉委員書彬：好，所以你的意思是這個部分要區分，因為你們當初已經評斷出他的財務應該是可以的……"],["楊司長玉惠：是。"],["劉委員書彬：是可以的，即使他未來發生一些問題的情況，但是這些可能沒有必要去處理。"],["楊司長玉惠：是。"],["劉委員書彬：好，但是如果真的發生狀況，你們會處理嗎？你們會，是不是？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，以大漢為例，因為他自己發現他的學生生源已經沒有辦法確定了，然後學校的校務基金還沒有到……"],["劉委員書彬：好，我知道，我現在的重點是因為現在有學生要從花蓮到宜蘭去，已經都有爭議出來，所以才想這個部分能夠更廣泛去了解。","另外，我想要再了解，退場基金這一部分，我在部裡面所提出來的預算可以看到，在114年的時候，墊付了十三億多的錢，但是回收兩千多萬，實際墊付到十三億多，請問一下，怎麼會有這麼大的差距，這墊付的怎麼回收呢？我們已經付出去了。"],["楊司長玉惠：跟委員報告，因為目前這些停辦要退場學校的校產都在處理進行中，縣市政府（例如中州就是彰化縣政府，大同技術學院就是嘉義縣、嘉義市）要承接這些退場學校的校產，針對這些學校跟基金申請墊付的額度，他會用購置校產的方式回來給我們基金，這個會逐年陸續回到基金來，所以雖然目前帳上看到基金還是有墊付蠻大塊的，但是後續整個校產回到各部會使用之後，他就會逐年編預算給基金，這一塊我們都已經有在做這樣的處理，所以基金會逐年來回補。"],["劉委員書彬：好，包括剛才看到環球科技大學去年也被停招，這樣的情況之下，有一個很大的問題是因為這些學校的校產事實上當初教育部也投注很多的公家資源，對不對？所以請教育部絕對要去了解到現在這些校產實際上處理的情況，因為我看到你們報告當中有說針對地方政府等等的都有好好去做，所以是不是請教育部特別針對目前要退場的部分給我一個報告？就是目前校產處理到什麼樣的情況，尤其是大漢這個部分，我們看到，他大概就有十四多公頃，很大的面積要好好去運用，或是怎麼樣讓它去轉型，當然還是有屬於公共利益、公共財產的部分，讓這個部分真正回歸到公共利益去處理，好嗎？"],["楊司長玉惠：好。"],["劉委員書彬：好，謝謝，這就是剛才我說的，所謂的公共財產要活化。","我們繼續往下面看這個問題，關於退場，學生這個部分，你們有特別去主動了解，我現在想問的是目前看到從114學年到128學年，平均每年會少3到4萬，平均每年是這樣的狀況之下，對於什麼樣的學校會進入到退場的名單當中，你們有沒有什麼標準或是大概還有多少比例的學校會進入到這個名單，還是你們……"],["楊司長玉惠：跟委員報告，部裡面沒有所謂的大學最後會變成幾所這樣的……"],["劉委員書彬：沒有，就是什麼樣的條件？"],["楊司長玉惠：就剛才提到的，只要學校的財務正常，不會欠老師薪水，該給學生的教學資源都有提供，這是最基本的，再來，教學品質一定要符合該有的教學品質等等，這些條件只要他符合了，不會退場。"],["劉委員書彬：好，所以你們就是都有定期在監督就對了。"],["楊司長玉惠：有，我們都定期在檢核。"],["劉委員書彬：好，這個部分也是保護我們的私立學校，謝謝。","我們繼續下一個議題，教育部今年已經宣布禁止我國與10所大陸的學校做交流，中研院也做了一個回應，就是因為他們與這些學校的交流多是中研院研究人員主動去做這樣的交流，所以他們沒有控管得很清楚，現在的問題是學術交流的準則在哪裡？當然我想問的是有沒有中國在科研或是學術領域是國際間佼佼者這一部分？請部長回答。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員指教，確實，除了統戰部的之外，另有7所，因為我們希望兩岸是友善、健康有序的交流，而且大學本來是追求知識、科技、在自由環境下學術發展的地方，它把3所學校歸為統戰部，它的目的跟人才培育、跟我們大學的宗旨是不太一樣的。"],["劉委員書彬：你的意思是說，只要被統戰部列為一個單獨的項目的話，你們就會把它列為禁止交流嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：是，還有軍事學校，這個部分涉及到機敏科技，還有一些產業競爭的，我們禁止交流，其他像北京、復旦、清華等，這些我們並沒有禁止交流，甚至我們的學生過去那邊讀書，我們也沒有禁止，這個我們尊重學生的選擇。"],["劉委員書彬：好，這樣就很清楚，目前就是這10所，有軍事或是統戰部所列的，對不對？"],["鄭部長英耀：就是3所統戰的跟國防七子這7所。"],["劉委員書彬：這樣就很清楚了，不然可能學生們不瞭解，因為有些在航太的部分，還有在電動、電池這部分，事實上他們是在優惠的……"],["鄭部長英耀：以兩岸現在的關係，我們還是保留開放，但是相當程度，如果當對岸對臺灣是比較不友善的，因為包含到現在，事實上它也沒有開放陸生來到臺灣。"],["劉委員書彬：好，那我現在了解了，謝謝部長。","最後一個問題我們想問一下今年的大學校長會議，請部長說一下大學校長會議舉行的意義是什麼？"],["鄭部長英耀：大學校長的會議有一個是因為它算是臺灣最重要的人才培育場域，讓彼此透過一個會議來思考高等教育的人才怎麼樣來培育，怎麼樣因應世界各國在人才培育上的一些挑戰，當然也一定有競爭、有合作，我們共同集思廣益，包含我們怎麼樣把這些人才培育，包括科研的研究，能夠形成一些高等教育的政策，我想這都是大學校長會議……"],["劉委員書彬：好，謝謝部長，我們現在往下看，可是今年在你所說的這部分，我們看到主題是跨域自主、多元鏈結，但是你前面邀請的包括中研院長、各校校長等等都很好，但是就出現了一個跟教育業務可能不是很相關的大陸委員會邱垂正主委來這邊做一個演講，尤其是他後來在文中講到如何識讀中國、培養識讀中國的師資，您對於這個有什麼看法？到底是中國跟中共，難道我們的學術裡面很多的……包括你用的是中文，還有包括剛才你說中國有些比較高的科技的部分、有些學術的部分，這部分是不是政治的手已經伸到了大學自治這邊去？請問您的態度是怎麼樣？"],["鄭部長英耀：我基本的態度是，怎麼樣讓我們的年輕人，包括教育工作者，能夠理解到國家的安全，其實包括歐美先進國家對此基本上的態度大概都是一樣的，也就是說我們怎麼樣讓我們的年輕人有國家的認同、有國家的意識，甚至理解到可能對岸對臺灣有一定程度的干擾、威脅，我簡單來講，就以統戰部所管轄的大學為例，在臺灣我們不會另外成立一個統戰部……"],["劉委員書彬：對，這就很清楚，你剛才說那是學術交流的部分，可是現在你是用教育部的會議對所有一百幾十所的大學學校，透過大學校長去要求大學的獨立自主，這部分本身就應該有識讀到中國的部分。"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，我們大學也都有開許多的國際關係、許多與兩岸相關的課程，怎麼樣讓這個課程裡面……我想邱主委只是做一個分享……"],["劉委員書彬：所以以後教育部的師資會特別去培育「識讀中國」這一個師資嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：我們不會特別，因為兩岸的關係有一些戰略，有一些來自於更高的國際關係上……"],["劉委員書彬：那就在國關領域上面去進行就好了，當你把它特別突出來的時候，像我們在隔壁，距離那麼近，以這樣的一個敵對狀況，我們大概還有一百萬左右的臺商在那邊的時候……"],["鄭部長英耀：就是因為敵對的關係，我覺得我們更應該要理解共產黨對臺灣怎麼樣思考……"],["劉委員書彬：對，那個就是中國共產黨，跟中國其實不會完全一樣，現在請注意到這個差異性。"],["鄭部長英耀：這個部分我也認同委員所提的，我們事實上不是對中國，而是因為他執政的共產黨對臺灣長期的一些威脅跟不友善，我想我們怎麼樣讓年輕人，包括校長，能夠理解國家現在所面臨的一些國際上邊緣政治跟許多的挑戰。過去兩岸的關係互動良好，我們在許多的課程上也就變成比較屬於國際關係的角色；這一次確實因為對岸對臺灣有相對比較多的一些干擾，我想我們讓大學……"],["劉委員書彬：所以你採取的是用提醒的態度，但是我希望你一定要堅守大學學術自主的這個原則，好不好？"],["鄭部長英耀：這個毋庸置疑，跟委員一樣，我來自於大學，我想學術的自由自主我們一定給予尊重。"],["劉委員書彬：謝謝部長你有這樣的觀念，希望你要搞清楚那個分際。"],["鄭部長英耀：而且一定要保護，那是臺灣的資產。"],["劉委員書彬：好，謝謝部長你有做這樣的承諾。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝劉書彬委員，官員請回座。","接下來有請羅廷瑋委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":186,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-7","speakers":["葛如鈞","萬美玲","柯志恩","劉書彬","羅廷瑋","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林宜瑾","吳思瑤","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","林沛祥","張雅琳","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","范雲","李坤城","謝龍介","王定宇","黃國昌","翁曉玲","陳培瑜","葉元之","高金素梅"],"page_start":113,"meetingDate":["2025-04-14"],"gazette_id":"1143702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143702_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143702_00003"}}}