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\"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 893.776, \"end\": 893.796, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 893.796, \"end\": 893.816, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 893.816, \"end\": 893.836, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 893.836, \"end\": 893.916, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 893.916, \"end\": 893.936, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 893.936, \"end\": 893.956, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 893.956, \"end\": 893.976, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 893.976, \"end\": 893.996, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:08,541\n謝謝主席有請部長請部長備質詢謝謝委員好部長好我在這邊也要說一聲學長好因為我們都來自教育界那我自己認為我受這麼多年的失陪我從理論到實踐都完全走過\n\n2\n00:00:33,550 --> 00:00:52,169\n好不容易來到立法院有立法修法這樣的一個職權所以呢我希望可以將我們原住民族的教育能夠做一個更深刻的剖析所以很多部分需要拜託部長來幫忙那我們看一下\n\n3\n00:00:54,133 --> 00:01:16,742\n這裡有一個110到114年的兩個大計畫它都是屬於中長城計畫一個是由原民會主政的名稱叫做建構原住民族教育文化知識體系另外一個是教育部跟原民會一起主政的原住民族教育發展計畫\n\n4\n00:01:17,802 --> 00:01:25,180\n今年兩個中長期計畫都到今年告一個階段結束那我在這裡我要先說明\n\n5\n00:01:26,670 --> 00:01:44,075\n部長我自己在民國82年新課程標準的時候我有擔任課程實驗班的導師到了民國90年的九年一貫課程我也進入到民間書商一起去參與編輯我們的教科書到了103課綱現在叫104當時我也是參與了課綱的研修小組\n\n6\n00:01:54,798 --> 00:02:14,983\n那我自己在國教輔導團二十多年我自己呢也把排灣族盧凱族族群本位的教材一個用五年一個用三年把一到六年級一些重要的領域像語文自然數學我也都把它一到六年級全部把它編轉起來\n\n7\n00:02:16,363 --> 00:02:32,488\n我要說的是從理論到實踐我有長年的經驗那我今天呢在教育部的夜報上有看到一個部分叫做強化地方政府援助民族教育資源中心運作這裡有提到\n\n8\n00:02:33,388 --> 00:03:01,998\n要跟原民會共同補助22個地方政府的原住民族教育資源中心發展符合當地原住民之民族教育課程規劃與評量方式促進原住民族教育課程教材與教法研發及推廣共同完善原住民族知識體系的建構與扎根這是一個非常專業的文字非常的標準\n\n9\n00:03:03,078 --> 00:03:20,355\n我希望我們呢寵為歸孽應該我們都要朝這樣子發展但是我們回頭來看一下以剛才我第一個講的就是由原民會主政的建構原住民族教育文化知識體系的那個計畫我們來看一下裡面的細項齁他會提到說我就要救教部長你看他寫\n\n10\n00:03:27,142 --> 00:03:34,872\n建構台灣原住民族知識體系及內容第二個叫做建構各原住民族知識體系及內容一個編了6700多萬一個編了1.9億我們再往下看\n\n11\n00:03:42,182 --> 00:03:51,390\n發展原住民族教育課程模組另外一個叫發展各級原住民族重點學校課程模組一個編了9500萬一個編了4800萬那個下面我就不要再贅述但是有一個2.2.5\n\n12\n00:03:59,236 --> 00:04:23,306\n這個部分叫做推展以民族教育為特色之學校本位課程這個非常好因為這個就是集大成要把學校本位課程融入各族的民族教育知識作為一個特色各位我想說的是這個你看它就是圓明會編三千萬\n\n13\n00:04:24,505 --> 00:04:49,630\n我們的教育部編三千萬這麼重要的東西這樣子編好我們再來看另外一個計畫叫做教育部跟園民會主政的原住民族教育發展計畫注意看喔一個叫生化民族教育喔但是主標題叫原住民族教育喔然後要發展課程教材喔但是你看三至一是民族教育的課程內容喔另外一個叫落實課綱發展族語文課程及教材喔\n\n14\n00:04:52,711 --> 00:05:16,791\n三字三又說要嚴定課綱原住民族語文教材喔巴拉巴拉巴拉這個圖顯什麼這個圖顯我們的上位其實自己都搞不清楚我們在寫什麼可能我們也不清楚什麼叫民族教育什麼叫原住民族教育什麼叫一般教育什麼叫民族教育教材什麼叫族語文教材\n\n15\n00:05:17,810 --> 00:05:36,705\n不通所以現在我也想要請教那個部長你應該很清楚從知識體系到我們的課綱到我們的課程教材教法它就是一個一體一貫的東西就是要拿來教學使用可是我們走了這麼多年走了十多年\n\n16\n00:05:42,489 --> 00:06:05,083\n我們依舊看不到很具體的東西到底是什麼花了這麼多的錢我剛剛才念的是四年今年結束可是我們實際上是從十幾年來都在做這件事情所以我不想講跌床架屋因為比跌床架屋更糟糕的是凸顯我們根本不了解我們不知道我們在做什麼\n\n17\n00:06:06,084 --> 00:06:25,474\n那我們來看一下現在又多蹦一個叫做原住民族民族教育計畫課綱發展計畫而且是跟他們不一樣叫112到115又多蹦一個出來我特別去問了一下他說有三個模式模式一叫做泰雅族課綱發展計畫\n\n18\n00:06:28,018 --> 00:06:38,623\n我特別也把成果拿來看了一下我也是有點傷心我希望拿給你看應該部長也看不下去模式二與各知識研究中心共作\n\n19\n00:06:40,975 --> 00:07:03,661\n聽說不了了之因為沒有錢好第三模式三鼓勵編撰原住民教育教材實施計畫這個應該是我多年前我一直要求要產出這個東西所以把它編進去但是很可惜也是不了了之說沒有錢現在唯一有錢的就是模式一好我們來看一下那這樣子我們來看模式一\n\n20\n00:07:05,539 --> 00:07:26,654\n兩千四百萬總經費而且正在追加中模式二剛剛講了沒有那我們來看一下到底這個課綱要做什麼我也不清楚我只看到我們教育部的課綱因為我有參與所以這個修訂背景基本理念這些文字我有撰稿過\n\n21\n00:07:28,055 --> 00:07:54,078\n那我要講的是說我很清楚這套東西但是我們看不到我們到底想要做的課綱是什麼東西我們原本以為所謂的課綱就是以我們的民族為本然後我們可以告訴大家什麼階段我們可以學習到什麼東西學習到什麼內容可以保持到什麼樣的基本能力我們要看做了核心素養那這個東西我就不予置評我只想說\n\n22\n00:07:55,859 --> 00:07:59,742\n這樣的東西我們花了這麼久的時間我們依舊看不到我們的知識體系的內容怎麼樣回應到我們的課程教材教法我們來看一下什麼叫做民族教育以這個LALUA來講\n\n23\n00:08:14,717 --> 00:08:37,764\n這個叫什麼這不是課綱啊這個叫做單單民族教育領域因為我們一般教育的數學不會出現在這樣的一個領域當中你看不到自然看不到數學它就是一個學習傳統知識民族教育的一個領域我們想要去把它的教材發展出來這個非常好\n\n24\n00:08:39,525 --> 00:08:58,004\n但是我們現在我們很擔心的就是我們來看一下我們真正要的這個模組就是112到114年我們有特別我要求要鼓勵各個原住民教育資源中心也就是今天教育部業報上所寫的\n\n25\n00:08:58,985 --> 00:09:15,154\n原住民族教育資源中心要發展符合當地原住民族之民族教育課程規劃與評量方式促進原住民族教育課程教材教法知識體系但是我們看一下結果我們看到是什麼\n\n26\n00:09:17,551 --> 00:09:37,148\n華聯他做了五六年級的數學科屏東他有申請他做了五六年級的社會科南投他做了三四年級的布農語教材表示我們核定的人也搞不清楚這個教育這個計畫到底是什麼也搞不清楚因為我們這個叫做什麼原住民族教材\n\n27\n00:09:43,663 --> 00:09:52,300\n但是我們真正要編的是我們剛才講的真正的應該是以民族教育為特色的學校本位課程\n\n28\n00:09:53,737 --> 00:09:57,879\n所以什麼叫學校本位課程部長你應該很清楚就是我們一般的數學領域自然領域英語文領域社會領域藝術與人文領域社會領域健康領域等等等我們應該要發展的是這個因為我們現在的孩子們很辛苦特別是原住民族實驗學校的孩子\n\n29\n00:10:15,908 --> 00:10:17,612\n一方面又要去學習所有民間書商編給他的課本一方面又忙著要去編輯民族教育的課程教材\n\n30\n00:10:27,014 --> 00:10:48,539\n我們如何達成回復孩子的主體性他在兩個漢人的主體跟他自己布農太亞的主體他在學習這兩套主體他怎麼回復他的主體第二個更嚴重的是增加他的認知負荷他何其無辜要去學習兩套主體不同的教材\n\n31\n00:10:50,154 --> 00:11:07,809\n所以我們作為一個教育最高的主管機關又或者是國教院作為我們的學術主管機關我真的很希望我們能夠重新的去了解到底什麼叫做原住民族教育所以呢我在這邊我特別要提的就是部長我們的原教法啊\n\n32\n00:11:12,298 --> 00:11:39,204\n他就是在第四條他偏偏在第四條就是弄了一個東西他把原住民族教育分為一般教育跟民族教育於是變成教育不管一般教育原民會管民族教育然後呢什麼計畫兩個都你付一半我付一半然後我們不知道我們也不敢管大家也不敢問因為原住民的東西大家都很尊重連專業都不敢碰\n\n33\n00:11:41,788 --> 00:11:50,960\n長此以往下去我很心痛啊很擔憂啊我不知道我們原住民的孩子要何去何從啊原住民的學校要何去何從\n\n34\n00:11:52,609 --> 00:12:11,124\n這是很可怕的一件事所有我們都是為了教育要翻身民族要翻轉但是我們的教育做不好的時候這是很可怕的一件事情所以呢我特別希望我們再回頭看那一張一般教育就是一般知識民族教育就是傳統知識\n\n35\n00:12:12,185 --> 00:12:26,570\n我們的原住民的知識體系做完了之後要把它融入變成整個學校的原住民主教育本位課程所有的課程教材教法都要在這個當中所以呢我這邊要提醒幾件事情就是\n\n36\n00:12:27,270 --> 00:12:52,895\n第一將原住民族教育誤認為等同民族教育這個要趕快處理第二投注大量資源在民族教育但是我們沒有看到成果因為我們並不了解它真正的意思第三我們忽略一般教育一般課綱裡面重中之重真正重要的是文化回應教學但是我們的老師全國的老師學到了沒有第四個偏重知識體系課綱\n\n37\n00:12:54,355 --> 00:13:10,508\n然後我們忽略了花了超幾億的錢這十幾年來但是忽略了教材教法的研發才是重中之重我們的孩子都在等我們的老師都在等所以呢本席要求就是與原民會國教署國教院等相關單位我希望明年就是一個新的年度開始就本位教材課綱原住民族知識體系的規劃重新安排資源的分配以及整合\n\n38\n00:13:21,716 --> 00:13:46,823\n那第二個我希望原住民族學校課程教材他們做了那麼多年可不可以給他們一筆錢你們去做研究案嘛國教院你去做研究案嘛看看所有的學校到底做的課程教材教法如何嘛那原住民族實驗學校未來到底何去何從也起一個研究案嘛那何謂原住民族學校我們也不知道啊你說要立法怎麼立法\n\n39\n00:13:47,952 --> 00:14:06,145\n五個立委講五個原住民族學校是什麼想法都不一樣怎麼立法所以這個部分我們都希望能夠從公本做起重新起計劃案那我也希望能夠針對原住民族教育是什麼學校是什麼能夠有一個公聽會或座談會方便我們來擬定115年度下一階段的計劃部長這樣可以嗎\n\n40\n00:14:10,896 --> 00:14:25,446\n委員關心原住民族的一個教育我想非常同意委員剛才所提的原住民族的一個知識體系怎麼去建構然後能夠形成我們課程教材這裡邊來編篆然後變成那把這種文化的一個主體性\n\n41\n00:14:26,386 --> 00:14:34,608\n能夠成為一個校本的一個課程我想包含教材教好我想這都是非常有價值的讓這樣一個我們真正落實我們對多元族群的一些這個重視而且能夠在人才培育能夠扎根我想我們會後來努力看怎麼樣國教院包括研明會然後來\n\n42\n00:14:46,591 --> 00:14:53,996\n也來請教我們這個委員看怎麼樣把這個做一些調整我想讓他能夠真正落實發揮他的一個教育效果好謝謝部長那我們就繼續追蹤希望能夠把它完成好謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6840\t8541\t謝謝主席 有請部長請部長備質詢 謝謝委員好部長好我在這邊也要說一聲學長好因為我們都來自教育界那我自己認為我受這麼多年的失陪我從理論到實踐都完全走過\n33550\t52169\t好不容易來到立法院有立法修法這樣的一個職權所以呢我希望可以將我們原住民族的教育能夠做一個更深刻的剖析所以很多部分需要拜託部長來幫忙那我們看一下\n54133\t76742\t這裡有一個110到114年的兩個大計畫它都是屬於中長城計畫一個是由原民會主政的名稱叫做建構原住民族教育文化知識體系另外一個是教育部跟原民會一起主政的原住民族教育發展計畫\n77802\t85180\t今年兩個中長期計畫都到今年告一個階段結束那我在這裡我要先說明\n86670\t104075\t部長 我自己在民國82年新課程標準的時候我有擔任課程實驗班的導師到了民國90年的九年一貫課程我也進入到民間書商一起去參與編輯我們的教科書到了103課綱 現在叫104當時我也是參與了課綱的研修小組\n114798\t134983\t那我自己在國教輔導團二十多年 我自己呢 也把排灣族 盧凱族 族群本位的教材一個用五年 一個用三年 把一到六年級一些重要的領域 像語文 自然 數學 我也都把它一到六年級全部把它編轉起來\n136363\t152488\t我要說的是從理論到實踐我有長年的經驗那我今天呢在教育部的夜報上有看到一個部分叫做強化地方政府援助民族教育資源中心運作這裡有提到\n153388\t181998\t要跟原民會共同補助22個地方政府的原住民族教育資源中心發展符合當地原住民之民族教育課程規劃與評量方式促進原住民族教育課程教材與教法研發及推廣共同完善原住民族知識體系的建構與扎根這是一個非常專業的文字非常的標準\n183078\t200355\t我希望我們呢 寵為歸孽 應該我們都要朝這樣子發展但是 我們回頭來看一下 以剛才我第一個講的就是由原民會主政的 建構原住民族教育文化知識體系的那個計畫我們來看一下裡面的細項齁他會提到說 我就要救教部長 你看他寫\n207142\t214872\t建構台灣原住民族知識體系及內容第二個叫做建構各原住民族知識體系及內容一個編了6700多萬一個編了1.9億我們再往下看\n222182\t231390\t發展原住民族教育課程模組另外一個叫發展各級原住民族重點學校課程模組一個編了9500萬一個編了4800萬那個下面我就不要再贅述但是有一個2.2.5\n239236\t263306\t這個部分叫做推展以民族教育為特色之學校本位課程這個非常好因為這個就是集大成要把學校本位課程融入各族的民族教育知識作為一個特色各位我想說的是這個你看它就是圓明會編三千萬\n264505\t289630\t我們的教育部編三千萬這麼重要的東西這樣子編好 我們再來看另外一個計畫叫做教育部跟園民會主政的原住民族教育發展計畫注意看喔一個叫生化民族教育喔但是主標題叫原住民族教育喔然後要發展課程教材喔但是你看三至一是民族教育的課程內容喔另外一個叫落實課綱發展族語文課程及教材喔\n292711\t316791\t三字三又說要嚴定課綱原住民族語文教材喔巴拉巴拉巴拉這個圖顯什麼這個圖顯我們的上位其實自己都搞不清楚我們在寫什麼可能我們也不清楚什麼叫民族教育什麼叫原住民族教育什麼叫一般教育什麼叫民族教育教材什麼叫族語文教材\n317810\t336705\t不通所以現在我也想要請教那個部長你應該很清楚從知識體系到我們的課綱到我們的課程教材教法它就是一個一體一貫的東西就是要拿來教學使用可是我們走了這麼多年走了十多年\n342489\t365083\t我們依舊看不到很具體的東西到底是什麼花了這麼多的錢我剛剛才念的是四年今年結束可是我們實際上是從十幾年來都在做這件事情所以我不想講跌床架屋因為比跌床架屋更糟糕的是凸顯我們根本不了解我們不知道我們在做什麼\n366084\t385474\t那我們來看一下現在又多蹦一個叫做原住民族民族教育計畫課綱發展計畫而且是跟他們不一樣叫112到115又多蹦一個出來我特別去問了一下他說有三個模式模式一叫做泰雅族課綱發展計畫\n388018\t398623\t我特別也把成果拿來看了一下我也是有點傷心我希望拿給你看應該部長也看不下去模式二與各知識研究中心共作\n400975\t423661\t聽說不了了之因為沒有錢好 第三 模式三鼓勵編撰原住民教育教材實施計畫這個應該是我多年前我一直要求要產出這個東西所以把它編進去但是很可惜也是不了了之說沒有錢現在唯一有錢的就是模式一好 我們來看一下那這樣子我們來看模式一\n425539\t446654\t兩千四百萬總經費而且正在追加中模式二剛剛講了 沒有那我們來看一下到底這個課綱要做什麼我也不清楚我只看到我們教育部的課綱因為我有參與所以這個修訂背景基本理念這些文字我有撰稿過\n448055\t474078\t那我要講的是說我很清楚這套東西但是我們看不到我們到底想要做的課綱是什麼東西我們原本以為所謂的課綱就是以我們的民族為本然後我們可以告訴大家什麼階段我們可以學習到什麼東西學習到什麼內容可以保持到什麼樣的基本能力我們要看做了核心素養那這個東西我就不予置評我只想說\n475859\t479742\t這樣的東西我們花了這麼久的時間 我們依舊看不到我們的知識體系的內容 怎麼樣回應到我們的課程 教材 教法我們來看一下什麼叫做民族教育 以這個LALUA來講\n494717\t517764\t這個叫什麼 這不是課綱啊 這個叫做單單民族教育領域因為我們一般教育的數學不會出現在這樣的一個領域當中你看不到 自然看不到數學它就是一個學習傳統知識 民族教育的一個領域我們想要去把它的教材發展出來 這個非常好\n519525\t538004\t但是我們現在我們很擔心的就是我們來看一下我們真正要的這個模組就是112到114年我們有特別我要求要鼓勵各個原住民教育資源中心也就是今天教育部業報上所寫的\n538985\t555154\t原住民族教育資源中心要發展符合當地原住民族之民族教育課程規劃與評量方式促進原住民族教育課程教材教法知識體系但是我們看一下結果我們看到是什麼\n557551\t577148\t華聯他做了五六年級的數學科屏東他有申請他做了五六年級的社會科南投他做了三四年級的布農語教材表示我們核定的人也搞不清楚這個教育這個計畫到底是什麼也搞不清楚因為我們這個叫做什麼原住民族教材\n583663\t592300\t但是我們真正要編的是我們剛才講的真正的應該是以民族教育為特色的學校本位課程\n593737\t597879\t所以什麼叫學校本位課程 部長你應該很清楚就是我們一般的數學領域 自然領域 英語文領域 社會領域藝術與人文領域 社會領域 健康領域等等等我們應該要發展的是這個 因為我們現在的孩子們很辛苦特別是原住民族實驗學校的孩子\n615908\t617612\t一方面又要去學習所有民間書商編給他的課本一方面又忙著要去編輯民族教育的課程教材\n627014\t648539\t我們如何達成回復孩子的主體性他在兩個漢人的主體跟他自己布農太亞的主體他在學習這兩套主體他怎麼回復他的主體第二個更嚴重的是增加他的認知負荷他何其無辜要去學習兩套主體不同的教材\n650154\t667809\t所以我們作為一個教育最高的主管機關又或者是國教院作為我們的學術主管機關我真的很希望我們能夠重新的去了解到底什麼叫做原住民族教育所以呢我在這邊我特別要提的就是部長我們的原教法啊\n672298\t699204\t他就是在第四條他偏偏在第四條就是弄了一個東西他把原住民族教育分為一般教育跟民族教育於是變成教育不管一般教育 原民會管民族教育然後呢 什麼計畫 兩個都你付一半我付一半然後 我們不知道我們也不敢管 大家也不敢問因為原住民的東西大家都很尊重連專業都不敢碰\n701788\t710960\t長此以往下去 我很心痛啊 很擔憂啊我不知道我們原住民的孩子要何去何從啊原住民的學校要何去何從\n712609\t731124\t這是很可怕的一件事所有我們都是為了教育要翻身民族要翻轉但是我們的教育做不好的時候這是很可怕的一件事情所以呢我特別希望我們再回頭看那一張一般教育就是一般知識民族教育就是傳統知識\n732185\t746570\t我們的原住民的知識體系做完了之後要把它融入變成整個學校的原住民主教育本位課程所有的課程教材教法都要在這個當中所以呢我這邊要提醒幾件事情就是\n747270\t772895\t第一將原住民族教育誤認為等同民族教育這個要趕快處理第二投注大量資源在民族教育但是我們沒有看到成果因為我們並不了解它真正的意思第三我們忽略一般教育一般課綱裡面重中之重真正重要的是文化回應教學但是我們的老師全國的老師學到了沒有第四個偏重知識體系課綱\n774355\t790508\t然後我們忽略了花了超幾億的錢這十幾年來但是忽略了教材教法的研發才是重中之重我們的孩子都在等我們的老師都在等所以呢本席要求就是與原民會國教署國教院等相關單位我希望明年就是一個新的年度開始就本位教材課綱原住民族知識體系的規劃重新安排資源的分配以及整合\n801716\t826823\t那第二個我希望原住民族學校課程教材他們做了那麼多年可不可以給他們一筆錢你們去做研究案嘛國教院你去做研究案嘛看看所有的學校到底做的課程教材教法如何嘛那原住民族實驗學校未來到底何去何從也起一個研究案嘛那何謂原住民族學校我們也不知道啊你說要立法怎麼立法\n827952\t846145\t五個立委講五個原住民族學校是什麼想法都不一樣怎麼立法所以這個部分我們都希望能夠從公本做起重新起計劃案那我也希望能夠針對原住民族教育是什麼學校是什麼能夠有一個公聽會或座談會方便我們來擬定115年度下一階段的計劃部長這樣可以嗎\n850896\t865446\t委員關心原住民族的一個教育我想非常同意委員剛才所提的原住民族的一個知識體系怎麼去建構然後能夠形成我們課程教材這裡邊來編篆然後變成那把這種文化的一個主體性\n866386\t874608\t能夠成為一個校本的一個課程我想包含教材教好我想這都是非常有價值的讓這樣一個我們真正落實我們對多元族群的一些這個重視而且能夠在人才培育能夠扎根我想我們會後來努力看怎麼樣國教院包括研明會然後來\n886591\t893996\t也來請教我們這個委員看怎麼樣把這個做一些調整我想讓他能夠真正落實發揮他的一個教育效果好 謝謝部長那我們就繼續追蹤希望能夠把它完成好 謝謝主席\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請部長請部長備質詢 謝謝委員好部長好我在這邊也要說一聲學長好因為我們都來自教育界那我自己認為我受這麼多年的失陪我從理論到實踐都完全走過\n好不容易來到立法院有立法修法這樣的一個職權所以呢我希望可以將我們原住民族的教育能夠做一個更深刻的剖析所以很多部分需要拜託部長來幫忙那我們看一下\n這裡有一個110到114年的兩個大計畫它都是屬於中長城計畫一個是由原民會主政的名稱叫做建構原住民族教育文化知識體系另外一個是教育部跟原民會一起主政的原住民族教育發展計畫\n今年兩個中長期計畫都到今年告一個階段結束那我在這裡我要先說明\n部長 我自己在民國82年新課程標準的時候我有擔任課程實驗班的導師到了民國90年的九年一貫課程我也進入到民間書商一起去參與編輯我們的教科書到了103課綱 現在叫104當時我也是參與了課綱的研修小組\n那我自己在國教輔導團二十多年 我自己呢 也把排灣族 盧凱族 族群本位的教材一個用五年 一個用三年 把一到六年級一些重要的領域 像語文 自然 數學 我也都把它一到六年級全部把它編轉起來\n我要說的是從理論到實踐我有長年的經驗那我今天呢在教育部的夜報上有看到一個部分叫做強化地方政府援助民族教育資源中心運作這裡有提到\n要跟原民會共同補助22個地方政府的原住民族教育資源中心發展符合當地原住民之民族教育課程規劃與評量方式促進原住民族教育課程教材與教法研發及推廣共同完善原住民族知識體系的建構與扎根這是一個非常專業的文字非常的標準\n我希望我們呢 寵為歸孽 應該我們都要朝這樣子發展但是 我們回頭來看一下 以剛才我第一個講的就是由原民會主政的 建構原住民族教育文化知識體系的那個計畫我們來看一下裡面的細項齁他會提到說 我就要救教部長 你看他寫\n建構台灣原住民族知識體系及內容第二個叫做建構各原住民族知識體系及內容一個編了6700多萬一個編了1.9億我們再往下看\n發展原住民族教育課程模組另外一個叫發展各級原住民族重點學校課程模組一個編了9500萬一個編了4800萬那個下面我就不要再贅述但是有一個2.2.5\n這個部分叫做推展以民族教育為特色之學校本位課程這個非常好因為這個就是集大成要把學校本位課程融入各族的民族教育知識作為一個特色各位我想說的是這個你看它就是圓明會編三千萬\n我們的教育部編三千萬這麼重要的東西這樣子編好 我們再來看另外一個計畫叫做教育部跟園民會主政的原住民族教育發展計畫注意看喔一個叫生化民族教育喔但是主標題叫原住民族教育喔然後要發展課程教材喔但是你看三至一是民族教育的課程內容喔另外一個叫落實課綱發展族語文課程及教材喔\n三字三又說要嚴定課綱原住民族語文教材喔巴拉巴拉巴拉這個圖顯什麼這個圖顯我們的上位其實自己都搞不清楚我們在寫什麼可能我們也不清楚什麼叫民族教育什麼叫原住民族教育什麼叫一般教育什麼叫民族教育教材什麼叫族語文教材\n不通所以現在我也想要請教那個部長你應該很清楚從知識體系到我們的課綱到我們的課程教材教法它就是一個一體一貫的東西就是要拿來教學使用可是我們走了這麼多年走了十多年\n我們依舊看不到很具體的東西到底是什麼花了這麼多的錢我剛剛才念的是四年今年結束可是我們實際上是從十幾年來都在做這件事情所以我不想講跌床架屋因為比跌床架屋更糟糕的是凸顯我們根本不了解我們不知道我們在做什麼\n那我們來看一下現在又多蹦一個叫做原住民族民族教育計畫課綱發展計畫而且是跟他們不一樣叫112到115又多蹦一個出來我特別去問了一下他說有三個模式模式一叫做泰雅族課綱發展計畫\n我特別也把成果拿來看了一下我也是有點傷心我希望拿給你看應該部長也看不下去模式二與各知識研究中心共作\n聽說不了了之因為沒有錢好 第三 模式三鼓勵編撰原住民教育教材實施計畫這個應該是我多年前我一直要求要產出這個東西所以把它編進去但是很可惜也是不了了之說沒有錢現在唯一有錢的就是模式一好 我們來看一下那這樣子我們來看模式一\n兩千四百萬總經費而且正在追加中模式二剛剛講了 沒有那我們來看一下到底這個課綱要做什麼我也不清楚我只看到我們教育部的課綱因為我有參與所以這個修訂背景基本理念這些文字我有撰稿過\n那我要講的是說我很清楚這套東西但是我們看不到我們到底想要做的課綱是什麼東西我們原本以為所謂的課綱就是以我們的民族為本然後我們可以告訴大家什麼階段我們可以學習到什麼東西學習到什麼內容可以保持到什麼樣的基本能力我們要看做了核心素養那這個東西我就不予置評我只想說\n這樣的東西我們花了這麼久的時間 我們依舊看不到我們的知識體系的內容 怎麼樣回應到我們的課程 教材 教法我們來看一下什麼叫做民族教育 以這個LALUA來講\n這個叫什麼 這不是課綱啊 這個叫做單單民族教育領域因為我們一般教育的數學不會出現在這樣的一個領域當中你看不到 自然看不到數學它就是一個學習傳統知識 民族教育的一個領域我們想要去把它的教材發展出來 這個非常好\n但是我們現在我們很擔心的就是我們來看一下我們真正要的這個模組就是112到114年我們有特別我要求要鼓勵各個原住民教育資源中心也就是今天教育部業報上所寫的\n原住民族教育資源中心要發展符合當地原住民族之民族教育課程規劃與評量方式促進原住民族教育課程教材教法知識體系但是我們看一下結果我們看到是什麼\n華聯他做了五六年級的數學科屏東他有申請他做了五六年級的社會科南投他做了三四年級的布農語教材表示我們核定的人也搞不清楚這個教育這個計畫到底是什麼也搞不清楚因為我們這個叫做什麼原住民族教材\n但是我們真正要編的是我們剛才講的真正的應該是以民族教育為特色的學校本位課程\n所以什麼叫學校本位課程 部長你應該很清楚就是我們一般的數學領域 自然領域 英語文領域 社會領域藝術與人文領域 社會領域 健康領域等等等我們應該要發展的是這個 因為我們現在的孩子們很辛苦特別是原住民族實驗學校的孩子\n一方面又要去學習所有民間書商編給他的課本一方面又忙著要去編輯民族教育的課程教材\n我們如何達成回復孩子的主體性他在兩個漢人的主體跟他自己布農太亞的主體他在學習這兩套主體他怎麼回復他的主體第二個更嚴重的是增加他的認知負荷他何其無辜要去學習兩套主體不同的教材\n所以我們作為一個教育最高的主管機關又或者是國教院作為我們的學術主管機關我真的很希望我們能夠重新的去了解到底什麼叫做原住民族教育所以呢我在這邊我特別要提的就是部長我們的原教法啊\n他就是在第四條他偏偏在第四條就是弄了一個東西他把原住民族教育分為一般教育跟民族教育於是變成教育不管一般教育 原民會管民族教育然後呢 什麼計畫 兩個都你付一半我付一半然後 我們不知道我們也不敢管 大家也不敢問因為原住民的東西大家都很尊重連專業都不敢碰\n長此以往下去 我很心痛啊 很擔憂啊我不知道我們原住民的孩子要何去何從啊原住民的學校要何去何從\n這是很可怕的一件事所有我們都是為了教育要翻身民族要翻轉但是我們的教育做不好的時候這是很可怕的一件事情所以呢我特別希望我們再回頭看那一張一般教育就是一般知識民族教育就是傳統知識\n我們的原住民的知識體系做完了之後要把它融入變成整個學校的原住民主教育本位課程所有的課程教材教法都要在這個當中所以呢我這邊要提醒幾件事情就是\n第一將原住民族教育誤認為等同民族教育這個要趕快處理第二投注大量資源在民族教育但是我們沒有看到成果因為我們並不了解它真正的意思第三我們忽略一般教育一般課綱裡面重中之重真正重要的是文化回應教學但是我們的老師全國的老師學到了沒有第四個偏重知識體系課綱\n然後我們忽略了花了超幾億的錢這十幾年來但是忽略了教材教法的研發才是重中之重我們的孩子都在等我們的老師都在等所以呢本席要求就是與原民會國教署國教院等相關單位我希望明年就是一個新的年度開始就本位教材課綱原住民族知識體系的規劃重新安排資源的分配以及整合\n那第二個我希望原住民族學校課程教材他們做了那麼多年可不可以給他們一筆錢你們去做研究案嘛國教院你去做研究案嘛看看所有的學校到底做的課程教材教法如何嘛那原住民族實驗學校未來到底何去何從也起一個研究案嘛那何謂原住民族學校我們也不知道啊你說要立法怎麼立法\n五個立委講五個原住民族學校是什麼想法都不一樣怎麼立法所以這個部分我們都希望能夠從公本做起重新起計劃案那我也希望能夠針對原住民族教育是什麼學校是什麼能夠有一個公聽會或座談會方便我們來擬定115年度下一階段的計劃部長這樣可以嗎\n委員關心原住民族的一個教育我想非常同意委員剛才所提的原住民族的一個知識體系怎麼去建構然後能夠形成我們課程教材這裡邊來編篆然後變成那把這種文化的一個主體性\n能夠成為一個校本的一個課程我想包含教材教好我想這都是非常有價值的讓這樣一個我們真正落實我們對多元族群的一些這個重視而且能夠在人才培育能夠扎根我想我們會後來努力看怎麼樣國教院包括研明會然後來\n也來請教我們這個委員看怎麼樣把這個做一些調整我想讓他能夠真正落實發揮他的一個教育效果好 謝謝部長那我們就繼續追蹤希望能夠把它完成好 謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.840 --> 00:08.541\n謝謝主席有請部長請部長備質詢謝謝委員好部長好我在這邊也要說一聲學長好因為我們都來自教育界那我自己認為我受這麼多年的失陪我從理論到實踐都完全走過\n\n00:33.550 --> 00:52.169\n好不容易來到立法院有立法修法這樣的一個職權所以呢我希望可以將我們原住民族的教育能夠做一個更深刻的剖析所以很多部分需要拜託部長來幫忙那我們看一下\n\n00:54.133 --> 01:16.742\n這裡有一個110到114年的兩個大計畫它都是屬於中長城計畫一個是由原民會主政的名稱叫做建構原住民族教育文化知識體系另外一個是教育部跟原民會一起主政的原住民族教育發展計畫\n\n01:17.802 --> 01:25.180\n今年兩個中長期計畫都到今年告一個階段結束那我在這裡我要先說明\n\n01:26.670 --> 01:44.075\n部長我自己在民國82年新課程標準的時候我有擔任課程實驗班的導師到了民國90年的九年一貫課程我也進入到民間書商一起去參與編輯我們的教科書到了103課綱現在叫104當時我也是參與了課綱的研修小組\n\n01:54.798 --> 02:14.983\n那我自己在國教輔導團二十多年我自己呢也把排灣族盧凱族族群本位的教材一個用五年一個用三年把一到六年級一些重要的領域像語文自然數學我也都把它一到六年級全部把它編轉起來\n\n02:16.363 --> 02:32.488\n我要說的是從理論到實踐我有長年的經驗那我今天呢在教育部的夜報上有看到一個部分叫做強化地方政府援助民族教育資源中心運作這裡有提到\n\n02:33.388 --> 03:01.998\n要跟原民會共同補助22個地方政府的原住民族教育資源中心發展符合當地原住民之民族教育課程規劃與評量方式促進原住民族教育課程教材與教法研發及推廣共同完善原住民族知識體系的建構與扎根這是一個非常專業的文字非常的標準\n\n03:03.078 --> 03:20.355\n我希望我們呢寵為歸孽應該我們都要朝這樣子發展但是我們回頭來看一下以剛才我第一個講的就是由原民會主政的建構原住民族教育文化知識體系的那個計畫我們來看一下裡面的細項齁他會提到說我就要救教部長你看他寫\n\n03:27.142 --> 03:34.872\n建構台灣原住民族知識體系及內容第二個叫做建構各原住民族知識體系及內容一個編了6700多萬一個編了1.9億我們再往下看\n\n03:42.182 --> 03:51.390\n發展原住民族教育課程模組另外一個叫發展各級原住民族重點學校課程模組一個編了9500萬一個編了4800萬那個下面我就不要再贅述但是有一個2.2.5\n\n03:59.236 --> 04:23.306\n這個部分叫做推展以民族教育為特色之學校本位課程這個非常好因為這個就是集大成要把學校本位課程融入各族的民族教育知識作為一個特色各位我想說的是這個你看它就是圓明會編三千萬\n\n04:24.505 --> 04:49.630\n我們的教育部編三千萬這麼重要的東西這樣子編好我們再來看另外一個計畫叫做教育部跟園民會主政的原住民族教育發展計畫注意看喔一個叫生化民族教育喔但是主標題叫原住民族教育喔然後要發展課程教材喔但是你看三至一是民族教育的課程內容喔另外一個叫落實課綱發展族語文課程及教材喔\n\n04:52.711 --> 05:16.791\n三字三又說要嚴定課綱原住民族語文教材喔巴拉巴拉巴拉這個圖顯什麼這個圖顯我們的上位其實自己都搞不清楚我們在寫什麼可能我們也不清楚什麼叫民族教育什麼叫原住民族教育什麼叫一般教育什麼叫民族教育教材什麼叫族語文教材\n\n05:17.810 --> 05:36.705\n不通所以現在我也想要請教那個部長你應該很清楚從知識體系到我們的課綱到我們的課程教材教法它就是一個一體一貫的東西就是要拿來教學使用可是我們走了這麼多年走了十多年\n\n05:42.489 --> 06:05.083\n我們依舊看不到很具體的東西到底是什麼花了這麼多的錢我剛剛才念的是四年今年結束可是我們實際上是從十幾年來都在做這件事情所以我不想講跌床架屋因為比跌床架屋更糟糕的是凸顯我們根本不了解我們不知道我們在做什麼\n\n06:06.084 --> 06:25.474\n那我們來看一下現在又多蹦一個叫做原住民族民族教育計畫課綱發展計畫而且是跟他們不一樣叫112到115又多蹦一個出來我特別去問了一下他說有三個模式模式一叫做泰雅族課綱發展計畫\n\n06:28.018 --> 06:38.623\n我特別也把成果拿來看了一下我也是有點傷心我希望拿給你看應該部長也看不下去模式二與各知識研究中心共作\n\n06:40.975 --> 07:03.661\n聽說不了了之因為沒有錢好第三模式三鼓勵編撰原住民教育教材實施計畫這個應該是我多年前我一直要求要產出這個東西所以把它編進去但是很可惜也是不了了之說沒有錢現在唯一有錢的就是模式一好我們來看一下那這樣子我們來看模式一\n\n07:05.539 --> 07:26.654\n兩千四百萬總經費而且正在追加中模式二剛剛講了沒有那我們來看一下到底這個課綱要做什麼我也不清楚我只看到我們教育部的課綱因為我有參與所以這個修訂背景基本理念這些文字我有撰稿過\n\n07:28.055 --> 07:54.078\n那我要講的是說我很清楚這套東西但是我們看不到我們到底想要做的課綱是什麼東西我們原本以為所謂的課綱就是以我們的民族為本然後我們可以告訴大家什麼階段我們可以學習到什麼東西學習到什麼內容可以保持到什麼樣的基本能力我們要看做了核心素養那這個東西我就不予置評我只想說\n\n07:55.859 --> 07:59.742\n這樣的東西我們花了這麼久的時間我們依舊看不到我們的知識體系的內容怎麼樣回應到我們的課程教材教法我們來看一下什麼叫做民族教育以這個LALUA來講\n\n08:14.717 --> 08:37.764\n這個叫什麼這不是課綱啊這個叫做單單民族教育領域因為我們一般教育的數學不會出現在這樣的一個領域當中你看不到自然看不到數學它就是一個學習傳統知識民族教育的一個領域我們想要去把它的教材發展出來這個非常好\n\n08:39.525 --> 08:58.004\n但是我們現在我們很擔心的就是我們來看一下我們真正要的這個模組就是112到114年我們有特別我要求要鼓勵各個原住民教育資源中心也就是今天教育部業報上所寫的\n\n08:58.985 --> 09:15.154\n原住民族教育資源中心要發展符合當地原住民族之民族教育課程規劃與評量方式促進原住民族教育課程教材教法知識體系但是我們看一下結果我們看到是什麼\n\n09:17.551 --> 09:37.148\n華聯他做了五六年級的數學科屏東他有申請他做了五六年級的社會科南投他做了三四年級的布農語教材表示我們核定的人也搞不清楚這個教育這個計畫到底是什麼也搞不清楚因為我們這個叫做什麼原住民族教材\n\n09:43.663 --> 09:52.300\n但是我們真正要編的是我們剛才講的真正的應該是以民族教育為特色的學校本位課程\n\n09:53.737 --> 09:57.879\n所以什麼叫學校本位課程部長你應該很清楚就是我們一般的數學領域自然領域英語文領域社會領域藝術與人文領域社會領域健康領域等等等我們應該要發展的是這個因為我們現在的孩子們很辛苦特別是原住民族實驗學校的孩子\n\n10:15.908 --> 10:17.612\n一方面又要去學習所有民間書商編給他的課本一方面又忙著要去編輯民族教育的課程教材\n\n10:27.014 --> 10:48.539\n我們如何達成回復孩子的主體性他在兩個漢人的主體跟他自己布農太亞的主體他在學習這兩套主體他怎麼回復他的主體第二個更嚴重的是增加他的認知負荷他何其無辜要去學習兩套主體不同的教材\n\n10:50.154 --> 11:07.809\n所以我們作為一個教育最高的主管機關又或者是國教院作為我們的學術主管機關我真的很希望我們能夠重新的去了解到底什麼叫做原住民族教育所以呢我在這邊我特別要提的就是部長我們的原教法啊\n\n11:12.298 --> 11:39.204\n他就是在第四條他偏偏在第四條就是弄了一個東西他把原住民族教育分為一般教育跟民族教育於是變成教育不管一般教育原民會管民族教育然後呢什麼計畫兩個都你付一半我付一半然後我們不知道我們也不敢管大家也不敢問因為原住民的東西大家都很尊重連專業都不敢碰\n\n11:41.788 --> 11:50.960\n長此以往下去我很心痛啊很擔憂啊我不知道我們原住民的孩子要何去何從啊原住民的學校要何去何從\n\n11:52.609 --> 12:11.124\n這是很可怕的一件事所有我們都是為了教育要翻身民族要翻轉但是我們的教育做不好的時候這是很可怕的一件事情所以呢我特別希望我們再回頭看那一張一般教育就是一般知識民族教育就是傳統知識\n\n12:12.185 --> 12:26.570\n我們的原住民的知識體系做完了之後要把它融入變成整個學校的原住民主教育本位課程所有的課程教材教法都要在這個當中所以呢我這邊要提醒幾件事情就是\n\n12:27.270 --> 12:52.895\n第一將原住民族教育誤認為等同民族教育這個要趕快處理第二投注大量資源在民族教育但是我們沒有看到成果因為我們並不了解它真正的意思第三我們忽略一般教育一般課綱裡面重中之重真正重要的是文化回應教學但是我們的老師全國的老師學到了沒有第四個偏重知識體系課綱\n\n12:54.355 --> 13:10.508\n然後我們忽略了花了超幾億的錢這十幾年來但是忽略了教材教法的研發才是重中之重我們的孩子都在等我們的老師都在等所以呢本席要求就是與原民會國教署國教院等相關單位我希望明年就是一個新的年度開始就本位教材課綱原住民族知識體系的規劃重新安排資源的分配以及整合\n\n13:21.716 --> 13:46.823\n那第二個我希望原住民族學校課程教材他們做了那麼多年可不可以給他們一筆錢你們去做研究案嘛國教院你去做研究案嘛看看所有的學校到底做的課程教材教法如何嘛那原住民族實驗學校未來到底何去何從也起一個研究案嘛那何謂原住民族學校我們也不知道啊你說要立法怎麼立法\n\n13:47.952 --> 14:06.145\n五個立委講五個原住民族學校是什麼想法都不一樣怎麼立法所以這個部分我們都希望能夠從公本做起重新起計劃案那我也希望能夠針對原住民族教育是什麼學校是什麼能夠有一個公聽會或座談會方便我們來擬定115年度下一階段的計劃部長這樣可以嗎\n\n14:10.896 --> 14:25.446\n委員關心原住民族的一個教育我想非常同意委員剛才所提的原住民族的一個知識體系怎麼去建構然後能夠形成我們課程教材這裡邊來編篆然後變成那把這種文化的一個主體性\n\n14:26.386 --> 14:34.608\n能夠成為一個校本的一個課程我想包含教材教好我想這都是非常有價值的讓這樣一個我們真正落實我們對多元族群的一些這個重視而且能夠在人才培育能夠扎根我想我們會後來努力看怎麼樣國教院包括研明會然後來\n\n14:46.591 --> 14:53.996\n也來請教我們這個委員看怎麼樣把這個做一些調整我想讓他能夠真正落實發揮他的一個教育效果好謝謝部長那我們就繼續追蹤希望能夠把它完成好謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.84,"end":8.541,"text":"謝謝主席 有請部長請部長備質詢 謝謝委員好部長好我在這邊也要說一聲學長好因為我們都來自教育界那我自己認為我受這麼多年的失陪我從理論到實踐都完全走過"},{"start":33.55,"end":52.169,"text":"好不容易來到立法院有立法修法這樣的一個職權所以呢我希望可以將我們原住民族的教育能夠做一個更深刻的剖析所以很多部分需要拜託部長來幫忙那我們看一下"},{"start":54.133,"end":76.742,"text":"這裡有一個110到114年的兩個大計畫它都是屬於中長城計畫一個是由原民會主政的名稱叫做建構原住民族教育文化知識體系另外一個是教育部跟原民會一起主政的原住民族教育發展計畫"},{"start":77.802,"end":85.18,"text":"今年兩個中長期計畫都到今年告一個階段結束那我在這裡我要先說明"},{"start":86.67,"end":104.075,"text":"部長 我自己在民國82年新課程標準的時候我有擔任課程實驗班的導師到了民國90年的九年一貫課程我也進入到民間書商一起去參與編輯我們的教科書到了103課綱 現在叫104當時我也是參與了課綱的研修小組"},{"start":114.798,"end":134.983,"text":"那我自己在國教輔導團二十多年 我自己呢 也把排灣族 盧凱族 族群本位的教材一個用五年 一個用三年 把一到六年級一些重要的領域 像語文 自然 數學 我也都把它一到六年級全部把它編轉起來"},{"start":136.363,"end":152.488,"text":"我要說的是從理論到實踐我有長年的經驗那我今天呢在教育部的夜報上有看到一個部分叫做強化地方政府援助民族教育資源中心運作這裡有提到"},{"start":153.388,"end":181.998,"text":"要跟原民會共同補助22個地方政府的原住民族教育資源中心發展符合當地原住民之民族教育課程規劃與評量方式促進原住民族教育課程教材與教法研發及推廣共同完善原住民族知識體系的建構與扎根這是一個非常專業的文字非常的標準"},{"start":183.078,"end":200.355,"text":"我希望我們呢 寵為歸孽 應該我們都要朝這樣子發展但是 我們回頭來看一下 以剛才我第一個講的就是由原民會主政的 建構原住民族教育文化知識體系的那個計畫我們來看一下裡面的細項齁他會提到說 我就要救教部長 你看他寫"},{"start":207.142,"end":214.872,"text":"建構台灣原住民族知識體系及內容第二個叫做建構各原住民族知識體系及內容一個編了6700多萬一個編了1.9億我們再往下看"},{"start":222.182,"end":231.39,"text":"發展原住民族教育課程模組另外一個叫發展各級原住民族重點學校課程模組一個編了9500萬一個編了4800萬那個下面我就不要再贅述但是有一個2.2.5"},{"start":239.236,"end":263.306,"text":"這個部分叫做推展以民族教育為特色之學校本位課程這個非常好因為這個就是集大成要把學校本位課程融入各族的民族教育知識作為一個特色各位我想說的是這個你看它就是圓明會編三千萬"},{"start":264.505,"end":289.63,"text":"我們的教育部編三千萬這麼重要的東西這樣子編好 我們再來看另外一個計畫叫做教育部跟園民會主政的原住民族教育發展計畫注意看喔一個叫生化民族教育喔但是主標題叫原住民族教育喔然後要發展課程教材喔但是你看三至一是民族教育的課程內容喔另外一個叫落實課綱發展族語文課程及教材喔"},{"start":292.711,"end":316.791,"text":"三字三又說要嚴定課綱原住民族語文教材喔巴拉巴拉巴拉這個圖顯什麼這個圖顯我們的上位其實自己都搞不清楚我們在寫什麼可能我們也不清楚什麼叫民族教育什麼叫原住民族教育什麼叫一般教育什麼叫民族教育教材什麼叫族語文教材"},{"start":317.81,"end":336.705,"text":"不通所以現在我也想要請教那個部長你應該很清楚從知識體系到我們的課綱到我們的課程教材教法它就是一個一體一貫的東西就是要拿來教學使用可是我們走了這麼多年走了十多年"},{"start":342.489,"end":365.083,"text":"我們依舊看不到很具體的東西到底是什麼花了這麼多的錢我剛剛才念的是四年今年結束可是我們實際上是從十幾年來都在做這件事情所以我不想講跌床架屋因為比跌床架屋更糟糕的是凸顯我們根本不了解我們不知道我們在做什麼"},{"start":366.084,"end":385.474,"text":"那我們來看一下現在又多蹦一個叫做原住民族民族教育計畫課綱發展計畫而且是跟他們不一樣叫112到115又多蹦一個出來我特別去問了一下他說有三個模式模式一叫做泰雅族課綱發展計畫"},{"start":388.018,"end":398.623,"text":"我特別也把成果拿來看了一下我也是有點傷心我希望拿給你看應該部長也看不下去模式二與各知識研究中心共作"},{"start":400.975,"end":423.661,"text":"聽說不了了之因為沒有錢好 第三 模式三鼓勵編撰原住民教育教材實施計畫這個應該是我多年前我一直要求要產出這個東西所以把它編進去但是很可惜也是不了了之說沒有錢現在唯一有錢的就是模式一好 我們來看一下那這樣子我們來看模式一"},{"start":425.539,"end":446.654,"text":"兩千四百萬總經費而且正在追加中模式二剛剛講了 沒有那我們來看一下到底這個課綱要做什麼我也不清楚我只看到我們教育部的課綱因為我有參與所以這個修訂背景基本理念這些文字我有撰稿過"},{"start":448.055,"end":474.078,"text":"那我要講的是說我很清楚這套東西但是我們看不到我們到底想要做的課綱是什麼東西我們原本以為所謂的課綱就是以我們的民族為本然後我們可以告訴大家什麼階段我們可以學習到什麼東西學習到什麼內容可以保持到什麼樣的基本能力我們要看做了核心素養那這個東西我就不予置評我只想說"},{"start":475.859,"end":479.742,"text":"這樣的東西我們花了這麼久的時間 我們依舊看不到我們的知識體系的內容 怎麼樣回應到我們的課程 教材 教法我們來看一下什麼叫做民族教育 以這個LALUA來講"},{"start":494.717,"end":517.764,"text":"這個叫什麼 這不是課綱啊 這個叫做單單民族教育領域因為我們一般教育的數學不會出現在這樣的一個領域當中你看不到 自然看不到數學它就是一個學習傳統知識 民族教育的一個領域我們想要去把它的教材發展出來 這個非常好"},{"start":519.525,"end":538.004,"text":"但是我們現在我們很擔心的就是我們來看一下我們真正要的這個模組就是112到114年我們有特別我要求要鼓勵各個原住民教育資源中心也就是今天教育部業報上所寫的"},{"start":538.985,"end":555.154,"text":"原住民族教育資源中心要發展符合當地原住民族之民族教育課程規劃與評量方式促進原住民族教育課程教材教法知識體系但是我們看一下結果我們看到是什麼"},{"start":557.551,"end":577.148,"text":"華聯他做了五六年級的數學科屏東他有申請他做了五六年級的社會科南投他做了三四年級的布農語教材表示我們核定的人也搞不清楚這個教育這個計畫到底是什麼也搞不清楚因為我們這個叫做什麼原住民族教材"},{"start":583.663,"end":592.3,"text":"但是我們真正要編的是我們剛才講的真正的應該是以民族教育為特色的學校本位課程"},{"start":593.737,"end":597.879,"text":"所以什麼叫學校本位課程 部長你應該很清楚就是我們一般的數學領域 自然領域 英語文領域 社會領域藝術與人文領域 社會領域 健康領域等等等我們應該要發展的是這個 因為我們現在的孩子們很辛苦特別是原住民族實驗學校的孩子"},{"start":615.908,"end":617.612,"text":"一方面又要去學習所有民間書商編給他的課本一方面又忙著要去編輯民族教育的課程教材"},{"start":627.014,"end":648.539,"text":"我們如何達成回復孩子的主體性他在兩個漢人的主體跟他自己布農太亞的主體他在學習這兩套主體他怎麼回復他的主體第二個更嚴重的是增加他的認知負荷他何其無辜要去學習兩套主體不同的教材"},{"start":650.154,"end":667.809,"text":"所以我們作為一個教育最高的主管機關又或者是國教院作為我們的學術主管機關我真的很希望我們能夠重新的去了解到底什麼叫做原住民族教育所以呢我在這邊我特別要提的就是部長我們的原教法啊"},{"start":672.298,"end":699.204,"text":"他就是在第四條他偏偏在第四條就是弄了一個東西他把原住民族教育分為一般教育跟民族教育於是變成教育不管一般教育 原民會管民族教育然後呢 什麼計畫 兩個都你付一半我付一半然後 我們不知道我們也不敢管 大家也不敢問因為原住民的東西大家都很尊重連專業都不敢碰"},{"start":701.788,"end":710.96,"text":"長此以往下去 我很心痛啊 很擔憂啊我不知道我們原住民的孩子要何去何從啊原住民的學校要何去何從"},{"start":712.609,"end":731.124,"text":"這是很可怕的一件事所有我們都是為了教育要翻身民族要翻轉但是我們的教育做不好的時候這是很可怕的一件事情所以呢我特別希望我們再回頭看那一張一般教育就是一般知識民族教育就是傳統知識"},{"start":732.185,"end":746.57,"text":"我們的原住民的知識體系做完了之後要把它融入變成整個學校的原住民主教育本位課程所有的課程教材教法都要在這個當中所以呢我這邊要提醒幾件事情就是"},{"start":747.27,"end":772.895,"text":"第一將原住民族教育誤認為等同民族教育這個要趕快處理第二投注大量資源在民族教育但是我們沒有看到成果因為我們並不了解它真正的意思第三我們忽略一般教育一般課綱裡面重中之重真正重要的是文化回應教學但是我們的老師全國的老師學到了沒有第四個偏重知識體系課綱"},{"start":774.355,"end":790.508,"text":"然後我們忽略了花了超幾億的錢這十幾年來但是忽略了教材教法的研發才是重中之重我們的孩子都在等我們的老師都在等所以呢本席要求就是與原民會國教署國教院等相關單位我希望明年就是一個新的年度開始就本位教材課綱原住民族知識體系的規劃重新安排資源的分配以及整合"},{"start":801.716,"end":826.823,"text":"那第二個我希望原住民族學校課程教材他們做了那麼多年可不可以給他們一筆錢你們去做研究案嘛國教院你去做研究案嘛看看所有的學校到底做的課程教材教法如何嘛那原住民族實驗學校未來到底何去何從也起一個研究案嘛那何謂原住民族學校我們也不知道啊你說要立法怎麼立法"},{"start":827.952,"end":846.145,"text":"五個立委講五個原住民族學校是什麼想法都不一樣怎麼立法所以這個部分我們都希望能夠從公本做起重新起計劃案那我也希望能夠針對原住民族教育是什麼學校是什麼能夠有一個公聽會或座談會方便我們來擬定115年度下一階段的計劃部長這樣可以嗎"},{"start":850.896,"end":865.446,"text":"委員關心原住民族的一個教育我想非常同意委員剛才所提的原住民族的一個知識體系怎麼去建構然後能夠形成我們課程教材這裡邊來編篆然後變成那把這種文化的一個主體性"},{"start":866.386,"end":874.608,"text":"能夠成為一個校本的一個課程我想包含教材教好我想這都是非常有價值的讓這樣一個我們真正落實我們對多元族群的一些這個重視而且能夠在人才培育能夠扎根我想我們會後來努力看怎麼樣國教院包括研明會然後來"},{"start":886.591,"end":893.996,"text":"也來請教我們這個委員看怎麼樣把這個做一些調整我想讓他能夠真正落實發揮他的一個教育效果好 謝謝部長那我們就繼續追蹤希望能夠把它完成好 謝謝主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":396,"blocks":[["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：（10時32分）謝謝主席。有請部長。"],["主席：請部長備詢，謝謝。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：部長好。我在這邊也要說一聲學長好，因為我們都來自教育界，我自己認為我受這麼多年的師培，從理論到實踐都完全走過，好不容易來到立法院，有立法、修法這樣的職權，我希望可以將我們原住民族的教育能夠更深刻剖析，所以很多部分需要拜託部長來幫忙。這裡有兩個110到114年的大計畫，都是屬於中長程計畫，一個是由原民會主政的，名稱叫做建構原住民族教育文化知識體系，另外一個是教育部跟原民會一起主政的原住民族教育發展計畫，兩個中長期計畫都到今年告一個階段結束。","我在這裡要先說明，我自己在民國82年公布新課程標準的時候，擔任課程實驗班的導師，到了民國90年的九年一貫課程，我進入到民間書商一起參與編輯教科書，到了103課綱，現在叫104，當時我也參與了課綱的研修小組。我自己在國教輔導團二十多年，也把排灣族、魯凱族族群本位的教材，一個用5年、一個用3年，一到六年級一些重要的領域，像語文、自然、數學，全部編撰起來。我要說的是，從理論到實踐，我有長年的經驗。我今天在教育部的業報上有看到一個部分，叫做強化地方政府原住民族教育資源中心運作，這裡有提到要跟原民會共同補助22個地方政府的原住民族教育資源中心，發展符合當地原住民之民族教育課程規劃與評量方式、促進原住民族教育課程、教材與教法研發及推廣，共同完善原住民族知識體系的建構與扎根。這是一段非常專業的文字、非常的標準，我希望我們奉為圭臬，應該都要朝這樣發展。","但是我們回頭來看一下，以剛才我第一個講的，就是由原民會主政的建構原住民族教育文化知識體系那個計畫，我們來看一下裡面的細項。我要就教部長，你看它寫「建構臺灣原住民族知識體系及內容」，第二個叫做「建構各原住民族知識體系及內容」，一個編了六千七百多萬，另一個編了1.9億。我們再往下看，一個是發展原住民族教育課程模組，另外一個叫發展各級原住民族重點學校課程模組，一個編了9,500萬，另一個編了4,800萬，下面我就不再贅述。但是有一個2.2.5，這個部分叫做推展以民族教育為特色之學校本位課程，這個非常好！因為這個就是集大成，要把學校本位課程融入各族的民族教育知識，作為一個特色。各位，我想說的是這個，你看它就是原民會編3,000萬，教育部編3,000萬，這麼重要的東西這樣編。","我們再來看另外一個計畫是教育部跟原民會主政的，叫做原住民族教育發展計畫，注意看一個叫深化民族教育，主標題叫原住民族教育，然後要發展課程教材，但是你看3-1是民族教育的課程內容，另外一個叫落實課綱發展族語文課程及教材，3-3又說要研訂課綱原住民族語文教材等，這個凸顯什麼？這個凸顯上位其實自己都搞不清楚在寫什麼，可能也不清楚什麼叫民族教育，什麼叫原住民族教育，什麼叫一般教育，什麼叫民族教育教材，什麼叫族語文教材，不通！","現在我想要請教部長，你應該很清楚，從知識體系到我們的課綱，到課程、教材、教法，就是一個一體一貫的東西，就是要拿來教學使用，可是我們走了這麼多年、走了十多年，依舊看不到很具體的東西到底是什麼，花了這麼多的錢，我剛才唸的是4年計畫，今年結束，可是實際上是十幾年來都在做這件事情。我不想講疊床架屋，因為比疊床架屋更糟糕的是，凸顯你們根本不了解，你們不知道你們在做什麼。我們來看一下，現在又多蹦一個叫做原住民族教育課綱發展計畫，而且跟他們不一樣，是112到115年，又多蹦一個出來。我特別去問了一下，說是有三個模式，模式一叫做泰雅族課綱發展計畫，我特別也把成果拿來看了一下，我也是有點傷心，我希望拿給你看，應該部長也看不下去。模式二、與各知識研究中心共作，聽說不了了之，因為沒有錢。模式三、鼓勵編撰原住民教育教材實施計畫，這個應該是我多年前一直要求要產出的東西，所以把它編進去，但很可惜也是不了了之，說沒有錢。現在唯一有錢的就是模式一。我們來看模式一總經費2,400萬而且正在追加中，剛剛講了模式二沒有。我們來看一下，到底這個課綱要做什麼，我也不清楚，我只看到我們教育部的課綱，因為我有參與，所以這個修訂背景、基本理念這些文字，我有撰稿過。我要講的是，我很清楚這套東西，但是我們看不到到底我們想要做的課綱是什麼東西，我們原本以為所謂的課綱就是以民族為本，然後可以告訴大家什麼階段可以學習到什麼東西、學習到什麼內容，可以保持到什麼樣的基本能力，及我們要看所做的核心素養，這個東西我就不予置評。我只是想說，這樣的東西我們花了這麼久的時間，依舊看不到知識體系的內容怎麼樣回應到我們的課程、教材、教法。","我們來看一下什麼叫做民族教育，以這個「拉阿魯哇」來講，這個叫什麼？這不是課綱，這個叫做單單民族教育領域，因為我們一般教育的數學不會出現在這樣一個領域當中，你看不到自然、看不到數學，它就是一個學習傳統知識民族教育的領域，我們想去把它的教材發展出來，這個非常好。但是現在我們很擔心的是，我們來看一下，真正要的模組是在112到114年，我有特別要求要鼓勵各個原住民教育資源中心，也就是今天教育部業報上所寫的原住民族教育資源中心要發展符合當地原住民族之民族教育課程規劃與評量方式，促進原住民族教育課程、教材、教法、知識體系，但是我們看到的結果是什麼？花蓮做了五、六年級的數學科；屏東有申請，它做了五、六年級的社會科；南投做了三、四年級的布農語教材，表示核定的人也搞不清楚這個計畫到底是什麼，因為這個叫做什麼？原住民族教材，但是我們真正要編的是剛才講的，真正應該是以民族教育為特色的學校本位課程。","所以什麼叫學校本位課程？部長，您應該很清楚，就是我們一般的數學領域、自然領域、英語文領域、社會領域、藝術與人文領域、社會領域、健康領域等等，我們應該要發展的是這個，因為現在的孩子們很辛苦，特別是原住民族實驗學校的孩子，一方面又要去學習所有民間書商編給他的課本，一方面又忙著要去編輯民族教育的課程教材，我們如何達成回復孩子的主體性？他在漢人的主體跟他自己布農、泰雅的主體來學習這兩套主體，他怎麼回復他的主體？第二個，更嚴重的是會增加他的認知負荷，他何其無辜要去學習兩套主體不同的教材。","所以我們作為一個教育最高的主管機關，又或者是國教院作為我們的學術主管機關，我真的很希望我們能夠重新去了解到底什麼叫做原住民族教育。所以我在這邊特別要提的就是，部長，我們的原教法偏偏在第四條弄了一個東西，它把原住民族教育分為一般教育跟民族教育，於是變成教育部管一般教育，原民會管民族教育，什麼計畫都是兩個，你負一半，我負一半，然後我們不知道、也不敢管、大家也不敢問，因為原住民的東西，大家都很尊重，連專業都不敢碰，長此以往下去，我很心痛、很擔憂，我不知道我們原住民的孩子要何去何從，原住民的學校要何去何從，這是很可怕的一件事，所有我們做的都是為了教育要翻身、民族要翻轉，但是我們教育做不好的時候，這是很可怕的一件事情。","所以我們再回頭看那一張簡報，一般教育是一般知識，民族教育就是傳統知識，我們將原住民知識體系做完了之後，我特別希望，要把它融入變成整個學校的原住民族教育本位課程，所有的課程、教材、教法都要在這個當中，所以我這邊要提醒幾件事情：第一、將原住民族教育誤認為等同民族教育，這個要趕快處理；第二，投注大量資源在民族教育，但是我們沒有看到成果，因為我們並不了解它真正的意思；第三，我們忽略一般教育、一般課綱裡面的重中之重，真正重要的是文化回應教學，但是我們的老師、全國的老師學到了沒有？第四，偏重知識體系課綱，我們這十幾年花了好幾億的錢，但是忽略了教材、教法的研發才是重中之重。","我們的孩子都在等，我們的老師都在等，所以本席要求與原民會、國教署、國教院等相關單位，我希望明年就是一個新的年度開始，就本位教材、課綱、原住民族知識體系的規劃，重新安排資源的分配以及整合。第二個，他們做了那麼多年原住民族學校課程教材，我希望可不可以給他們一筆錢？你們去做研究案嘛！國教院去做研究案嘛！看看所有學校做的課程教材、教法到底如何，原住民族實驗學校未來到底何去何從，也起一個研究案，何謂原住民族學校？我們也不知道啊，你說要立法，怎麼立法？5個立委講5個原住民族學校是什麼，想法都不一樣，怎麼立法？所以這個部分，我們都希望能夠從根本做起，重新起計畫案，我也希望針對原住民族教育是什麼、學校是什麼能夠有一個公聽會或座談會，方便我們來擬定115年度下一階段的計畫，部長這樣可以嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員關心原住民族的教育，我非常同意委員剛才所提的，原住民族的知識體系怎麼去建構，能夠形成我們的課程教材，從這裡來編撰，變成文化的主體性，能夠成為一個校本的課程，包含教材、教法，我想這都是非常有價值的，讓我們真正落實對於多元族群的重視，而且使人才培育能夠扎根，我們會後來努力看怎麼樣讓國教院，包括原民會，也來請教我們委員看怎麼樣把這部分做一些調整，讓它能夠真正落實發揮教育效果。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝部長，我們就繼續追蹤，希望能夠把它完成。好，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝伍麗華委員質詢，官員請回座。","我們接下來有請林宜瑾召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":186,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-7","speakers":["葛如鈞","萬美玲","柯志恩","劉書彬","羅廷瑋","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林宜瑾","吳思瑤","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","林沛祥","張雅琳","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","范雲","李坤城","謝龍介","王定宇","黃國昌","翁曉玲","陳培瑜","葉元之","高金素梅"],"page_start":113,"meetingDate":["2025-04-14"],"gazette_id":"1143702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143702_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143702_00003"}}}