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915.121, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 915.121, \"end\": 915.221, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 915.221, \"end\": 915.281, \"score\": 0.65}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 915.281, \"end\": 915.301, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,329 --> 00:00:01,550\n委員好部長好\n\n2\n00:00:20,629 --> 00:00:47,034\n面對台灣現在時刻面臨中國的威脅恫嚇那中國也透過很多的這種滲透方式的手段要來擄弱台灣的民心可是這樣的行動如果是透過我們的孩子的教育下手那我想勢必是部長你我都非常擔心的狀況那我們來看根據教育基本法第二條\n\n3\n00:00:48,594 --> 00:01:07,168\n當中就有提到說教育的目的是以培養人民健全人格民主素養法治觀念人文涵養愛國教育相處關懷巴拉巴拉使其成為具有國家意識與國際視野之現代化人民\n\n4\n00:01:08,229 --> 00:01:33,031\n那第六條也有提到說教育因本與中立的原則那近期當然爭議最大就是北一女的這個歐桂芝老師她被檢舉說在課堂上說台灣是中國的那本席尊重歐老師自己的這個民族及國家認同可是我們當然不會像習近平那樣動不動就說要打你打到像跟他變成同一國人\n\n5\n00:01:34,232 --> 00:02:00,510\n那可是本席陸續有接到家長有關心教育的家長反應說他們擔心孩子的這個認知會因為歐老師的特殊言行會受到不利的影響那其實也不只歐老師啦其實本席有接到家長反應說他的孩子才國小三年級那孩子的班導在課堂上就跟同學說我們是中國人\n\n6\n00:02:01,531 --> 00:02:28,622\n那孩子當下就覺得很奇怪媽媽就教我們台灣人現在老師說我們中國人那當然這個家長就認為說在台灣自由民主的這個國度裡小孩即便要有這個所謂的身份認同要理解這個身份認同的問題那老師也應該用多角度來分析說明而不是讓孩子去所謂的自行的評判或思考而不是單一角度的一句帶過那況且中國\n\n7\n00:02:31,463 --> 00:02:54,815\n是我們反滲透法所定義的境外敵對勢力那我覺得自我認同並沒有對錯可是如果老師因為自我認同那持續為這個境外敵對勢力來做宣傳那我覺得這個問題就有點嚴重了那你可以是中國人可是你不可以為殺戮背書\n\n8\n00:02:56,756 --> 00:03:15,795\n那本席想要請教是說當學生跟家長遇到學校老師利用教育的手段試圖混淆國家認同涉及違背教育基本法所提的培養人民成為具有國家意識與國際視野之現代化國民\n\n9\n00:03:16,736 --> 00:03:34,650\n以及他為境外敵對勢力宣傳的狀況的時候我們要怎麼應對尤其是像國中以下階段的孩子他們的思辨能力都還在培養中國家意識也最容易受到左右那如果遇到本席剛剛提到的狀況的時候那我們應該怎麼因應\n\n10\n00:03:35,891 --> 00:03:46,076\n那另外就是說老師在授課的時候在國家認同跟言論自由要如何拿捏才不會違反所謂的教育中立那部長你怎麼看這個事情\n\n11\n00:03:48,578 --> 00:04:16,036\n我想國家的一個安全這個位階是最高啦也就國家的安全有一個國家如果沒有安全個人你不要說你有安全所以這個部分是非常清楚的那教育基本法也提到我們在教育裡面一個很重要的目的要培養具有國家意識進去國際視野所以以現在現代化的一個國運以現在教育部所做的我們就希望在未來怎麼樣去加強\n\n12\n00:04:17,297 --> 00:04:31,193\n讓中小學生能夠對這個國家的一個認同對他的一個身處的一個地方有一個更多的一些理解跟愛護跟守護我想這是一個教育人最基本的那當然你\n\n13\n00:04:32,074 --> 00:04:46,847\n你對文化上你可以有偏好但是也就是說你喜歡喝咖啡你喜歡喝茶這我們可以尊重但是身為一個教育工作者他的一個職責必須要遵循教育基本法我不需要你去為\n\n14\n00:04:47,788 --> 00:05:12,967\n教育當然要中立但言論的自由裡面必須要還是在這個教育基本法裡面的一個框架裡面你身為一個教育工作者一個專門職業的工作者你必須要有一些承諾這個承諾是來自你對法治法令上的一些理解那國家意識你不能把它解釋中華人民共和國這我相信任何人是沒有辦法接受的對所以\n\n15\n00:05:14,288 --> 00:05:34,771\n特別是3月中旬的時候賴總統就有因應這個中國統戰滲透的國安舉辦一個國安高層會議那會中有提出17項的因應這個策略那其中一個策略就是讓教育部要會同相關的機關全面深化學生對中國的這個嗜讀教育\n\n16\n00:05:35,331 --> 00:05:42,073\n教育部有說我們會同陸委會經濟部等部會持續推動這個課程跟研習並透過經費的補助或行政的協助來加強師生對兩岸關係與政府兩岸政策的正確認知那真的這個部分不曉得教育部後續有什麼樣的精進作為或有什麼新的措施來強化台灣學生的風險跟國安意識\n\n17\n00:06:00,948 --> 00:06:26,088\n我想謝謝委員的這個指教我們確實現在請這個公民老師歷史老師我們等於說社會科的因為小學是社會科老師嘛國中也社會科高中他就學科分化有公民有歷史社會我們現在透過這一些學科的一個輔導團的老師然後能夠編撰一些相關的一些包括國家認同怎麼樣去\n\n18\n00:06:28,029 --> 00:06:53,779\n試讀中國的許多的威脅包括國際的這些的一個情勢我們希望在一個教材裡面大概基本上在今年的暑假之前會開發出來那也希望能夠有更多的這些公民科的老師社會科歷史的老師也能夠來參加研習我想我們希望給學生的是一個正確的歷史史觀正確的一個資訊跟這個知識而不是\n\n19\n00:06:56,980 --> 00:07:09,858\n一種很容易被以兒傳兒的這個混淆的一個概念好謝謝部長那不是想要再追問就是說近期有不少公民團體在全台各地進行這個罷免的行動那也有大學生開始發起校園的倡議的活動\n\n20\n00:07:14,484 --> 00:07:25,512\n不過前幾天在政大在校的學生有自發性在校園的中正圖書館下方的那個開放休憩的空間進行連署的行動的時候被圖書館的人員關切那圖書館的人員跟學生說要在那個場地進行活動需要事先進行這個場地的申請\n\n21\n00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:40,605\n那可是學生認為說根據校內的規定如果需要借用的試用範圍是包含中正圖書館的大廳迴旋的藝廊商圖的梯廳還有賢達圖書館大廳及其他本館指定的空間這是被規範要申請場地的也就是說\n\n22\n00:07:56,901 --> 00:08:13,532\n那天在中正圖書館下方的空間並沒有明確被列為要事先申請的場地那為什麼會突然受到關心那另外我們上個禮拜在中山大學的學生在校內張貼那個罷免的文宣那也疑似被下方人員撕除\n\n23\n00:08:16,094 --> 00:08:36,231\n今天在城大就是在中正堂前方的芒果樹下有舉辦一個來野參拔的活動那也被關切說這個場地必須要申請其實在一個芒果樹下的活動基本上應該就是一個所謂的戶外的一個空間\n\n24\n00:08:37,392 --> 00:08:55,805\n前述這些事件引發學生們很激烈的討論那有些人就開始提到說在校園內進行所謂的政治性的活動是否有違教育基本法的學校中立那政治推出校園這個事情也被拿出來很激烈在討論\n\n25\n00:08:56,906 --> 00:09:07,656\n那本席是認為說教育基本法第六條第二項所指的是學校不得為特定政治團體從事宣傳或活動主詞是學校\n\n26\n00:09:12,020 --> 00:09:31,386\n而不是學生那他的內涵應該是學校本身不能利用行政資源或者對不能利用行政資源為特定的政黨來宣傳那如果是這樣的話那如果學生在校內不得替這個所謂的特定政治團體從事這個宣傳或活動那我們就來看看\n\n27\n00:09:36,167 --> 00:10:00,859\n舉例來說第六條的第三項公立學校不得為特定宗教信仰從事宣傳或活動那學生在學校籌組宗教社團是不是就要被解散如果按照這個邏輯好再者政治退出校園有它的歷史脈絡主要是過去國民黨威權時代在學校設置黨部\n\n28\n00:10:02,020 --> 00:10:29,665\n那學生的出版看護都要經過審查還有教官來監控學生的言論等等所以本席因為在過去也在學生賽參考野百合學運所以我也成為被監控的一員那現在政治退出校園被簡化成校園不可討論政治或者學生不能從事政治性的宣傳活動我覺得恐怕有太去脈絡化的嫌疑那學生在校園內的政治的參與表達立場我覺得並沒有什麼不當\n\n29\n00:10:30,985 --> 00:10:45,681\n那像當年太陽花學運在各大學遍地開花中正大學在校園內就有學生社團在行政大樓跟社科院中間那個大草坪發起這個民主講堂事後下方還在那個大草坪\n\n30\n00:10:46,361 --> 00:11:00,847\n豎起一個學術自由碑那我想要請教部長的是學生自發性的發起在校園內的政治性的宣傳的活動這有違教育基本法嗎那教育部要如何捍衛學生的公民參與\n\n31\n00:11:02,876 --> 00:11:21,938\n謝謝委員的指教我想台灣的一個校園民主跟自由言論自由這是台灣的資產也是我們共同捍衛的核心價值陳委員剛才所提的教育基本法所規範是學校不得為特定政治團體從事宣傳或者租借場地\n\n32\n00:11:22,839 --> 00:11:40,231\n等等這些規範教育部之前在106年107年都先後發過文但是學生屬於個人的一個公民政治活動的一個參與他的一些主張這屬於言論自由的這個部分我想我們給予尊重而且學校也應該要確實要\n\n33\n00:11:42,512 --> 00:12:06,553\n保護學生在言論上不影響到公共傷害或者對他人特定人的一些謾罵等等不當的一個言論我相信公民的素養許多的公民的一個活動他就是在培養現代化公民的素養的一個基本的一個內涵那我覺得這一個屬於學生的自發性的他不是為特定政黨來宣揚然後\n\n34\n00:12:09,529 --> 00:12:32,134\n我想這應該要被保護也就是說簡單來講所有的教育中立這裡邊是規範到學校你不能為特定政黨陳委員剛才所提的過去就希望說政黨能夠退出校園保有讓學生自由開放然後一個更自由的思想的一個學習成長的空間我想這個精神是在這裡\n\n35\n00:12:32,774 --> 00:12:59,529\n好那本席在最後再用30秒就是說我為我們台南的鄉親做個請命喔那個我們台南的圖書館喔我們永康我的選區永康喔它是台南市人口最多的行政區那之前喔永康社教中心喔經過這個大廳跟演藝廳的這個改建整建之後其實我們人館現在入場的這個人次有大幅的提升\n\n36\n00:13:00,189 --> 00:13:25,550\n可是因為社交中心落成已經超過20年那裡面我們有一個圖書館那這個圖書館的各項設施跟空間的動線其實都已經不符合現在的要求那近年來因為我們數位科技也好裝置發展迅速所以館內很缺乏這些設備像說預約的取書機或自助的借書機等等那還有這裡面其實也缺乏很多的多功能的空間甚至也沒有所謂的親子廁所\n\n37\n00:13:27,071 --> 00:13:31,693\n那所以我覺得面對現今的這個圖書館現代化越智慧化那我想期待說是不是有機會來獲得這個教育部的這個補助來讓我們的永康是一個最多行政人行政最多人口的行政區的這個永康的這個地方的圖書館有一個現代化的這個設備那有這個智慧科技的設備\n\n38\n00:13:52,820 --> 00:14:19,173\n來24小時能運行所以這個經費大約要3300萬喔那所以也請部長來支持那也期待部長如果有空可不可以也來南下來看一下我們現在目前社交中心的狀況因為你看現在圖片是現況那現況這樣的一個圖片就很清楚知道說這個是就是很老舊20年以前的這種設備那其實是有待改善\n\n39\n00:14:20,253 --> 00:14:35,023\n謝謝,我很關心因為確實永康大概是全國或可能最大城市的一個都會密集的一個地區那這個圖書館怎麼樣讓它更親近就那個行政院確實在114年今年的研業\n\n40\n00:14:37,266 --> 00:14:50,845\n這個有通過了一個這個精進計畫就BigMaker的從這個創新實驗環境建置跟服務的精進所以委員剛才所提的我們也內部也看到了永康台南市永康圖書館也\n\n41\n00:14:52,307 --> 00:15:15,301\n提出了一個申請希望在這個計畫裡邊我想我們有一定的一些審查我們樂觀其成因為它確實能夠服務社區有更多的一些的一些功能那如果有機會我想我也很樂意多了解第一線上他們實際的一些困難跟需要部裡邊的一些協助好謝謝部長謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n329\t1550\t委員好部長好\n20629\t47034\t面對台灣現在時刻面臨中國的威脅恫嚇那中國也透過很多的這種滲透方式的手段要來擄弱台灣的民心可是這樣的行動如果是透過我們的孩子的教育下手那我想勢必是部長你我都非常擔心的狀況那我們來看根據教育基本法第二條\n48594\t67168\t當中就有提到說 教育的目的是以培養人民健全人格 民主素養 法治觀念 人文涵養 愛國教育 相處關懷 巴拉巴拉使其成為具有國家意識與國際視野之現代化人民\n68229\t93031\t那第六條也有提到說教育因本與中立的原則那近期當然爭議最大就是北一女的這個歐桂芝老師她被檢舉說在課堂上說台灣是中國的那本席尊重歐老師自己的這個民族及國家認同可是我們當然不會像習近平那樣動不動就說要打你打到像跟他變成同一國人\n94232\t120510\t那可是本席陸續有接到家長有關心教育的家長反應說他們擔心孩子的這個認知會因為歐老師的特殊言行會受到不利的影響那其實也不只歐老師啦其實本席有接到家長反應說他的孩子才國小三年級那孩子的班導在課堂上就跟同學說我們是中國人\n121531\t148622\t那孩子當下就覺得很奇怪媽媽就教我們台灣人現在老師說我們中國人那當然這個家長就認為說在台灣自由民主的這個國度裡小孩即便要有這個所謂的身份認同要理解這個身份認同的問題那老師也應該用多角度來分析說明而不是讓孩子去所謂的自行的評判或思考而不是單一角度的一句帶過那況且中國\n151463\t174815\t是我們反滲透法所定義的境外敵對勢力那我覺得自我認同並沒有對錯可是如果老師因為自我認同那持續為這個境外敵對勢力來做宣傳那我覺得這個問題就有點嚴重了那你可以是中國人可是你不可以為殺戮背書\n176756\t195795\t那本席想要請教是說當學生跟家長遇到學校老師利用教育的手段試圖混淆國家認同涉及違背教育基本法所提的培養人民成為具有國家意識與國際視野之現代化國民\n196736\t214650\t以及他為境外敵對勢力宣傳的狀況的時候我們要怎麼應對尤其是像國中以下階段的孩子他們的思辨能力都還在培養中國家意識也最容易受到左右那如果遇到本席剛剛提到的狀況的時候那我們應該怎麼因應\n215891\t226076\t那另外就是說老師在授課的時候在國家認同跟言論自由要如何拿捏才不會違反所謂的教育中立那部長你怎麼看這個事情\n228578\t256036\t我想國家的一個安全這個位階是最高啦也就國家的安全有一個國家如果沒有安全個人你不要說你有安全所以這個部分是非常清楚的那教育基本法也提到我們在教育裡面一個很重要的目的要培養具有國家意識進去國際視野所以以現在現代化的一個國運以現在教育部所做的我們就希望在未來怎麼樣去加強\n257297\t271193\t讓中小學生能夠對這個國家的一個認同對他的一個身處的一個地方有一個更多的一些理解跟愛護跟守護我想這是一個教育人最基本的那當然你\n272074\t286847\t你對文化上你可以有偏好但是也就是說你喜歡喝咖啡你喜歡喝茶這我們可以尊重但是身為一個教育工作者他的一個職責必須要遵循教育基本法我不需要你去為\n287788\t312967\t教育當然要中立但言論的自由裡面必須要還是在這個教育基本法裡面的一個框架裡面你身為一個教育工作者一個專門職業的工作者你必須要有一些承諾這個承諾是來自你對法治法令上的一些理解那國家意識你不能把它解釋中華人民共和國這我相信任何人是沒有辦法接受的對 所以\n314288\t334771\t特別是3月中旬的時候賴總統就有因應這個中國統戰滲透的國安舉辦一個國安高層會議那會中有提出17項的因應這個策略那其中一個策略就是讓教育部要會同相關的機關全面深化學生對中國的這個嗜讀教育\n335331\t342073\t教育部有說 我們會同陸委會 經濟部等部會持續推動這個課程跟研習並透過經費的補助或行政的協助來加強師生對兩岸關係與政府兩岸政策的正確認知那真的這個部分不曉得教育部後續有什麼樣的精進作為或有什麼新的措施來強化台灣學生的風險跟國安意識\n360948\t386088\t我想謝謝委員的這個指教我們確實現在請這個公民老師歷史老師我們等於說社會科的因為小學是社會科老師嘛國中也社會科高中他就學科分化有公民有歷史社會我們現在透過這一些學科的一個輔導團的老師然後能夠編撰一些相關的一些包括國家認同怎麼樣去\n388029\t413779\t試讀中國的許多的威脅包括國際的這些的一個情勢我們希望在一個教材裡面大概基本上在今年的暑假之前會開發出來那也希望能夠有更多的這些公民科的老師社會科歷史的老師也能夠來參加研習我想我們希望給學生的是一個正確的歷史史觀正確的一個資訊跟這個知識而不是\n416980\t429858\t一種很容易被以兒傳兒的這個混淆的一個概念好 謝謝部長那不是想要再追問就是說近期有不少公民團體在全台各地進行這個罷免的行動那也有大學生開始發起校園的倡議的活動\n434484\t445512\t不過前幾天在政大在校的學生有自發性在校園的中正圖書館下方的那個開放休憩的空間進行連署的行動的時候被圖書館的人員關切那圖書館的人員跟學生說要在那個場地進行活動需要事先進行這個場地的申請\n456360\t460605\t那可是學生認為說根據校內的規定如果需要借用的試用範圍是包含中正圖書館的大廳迴旋的藝廊商圖的梯廳還有賢達圖書館大廳及其他本館指定的空間這是被規範要申請場地的也就是說\n476901\t493532\t那天在中正圖書館下方的空間並沒有明確被列為要事先申請的場地那為什麼會突然受到關心那另外我們上個禮拜在中山大學的學生在校內張貼那個罷免的文宣那也疑似被下方人員撕除\n496094\t516231\t今天在城大 就是在中正堂前方的芒果樹下 有舉辦一個來野參拔的活動那也被關切 說這個場地必須要申請其實在一個芒果樹下的活動 基本上應該就是一個所謂的戶外的一個空間\n517392\t535805\t前述這些事件引發學生們很激烈的討論那有些人就開始提到說在校園內進行所謂的政治性的活動是否有違教育基本法的學校中立那政治推出校園這個事情也被拿出來很激烈在討論\n536906\t547656\t那本席是認為說教育基本法第六條第二項所指的是學校不得為特定政治團體從事宣傳或活動主詞是學校\n552020\t571386\t而不是學生那他的內涵應該是學校本身不能利用行政資源或者對 不能利用行政資源為特定的政黨來宣傳那如果是這樣的話那如果學生在校內不得替這個所謂的特定政治團體從事這個宣傳或活動那我們就來看看\n576167\t600859\t舉例來說第六條的第三項公立學校不得為特定宗教信仰從事宣傳或活動那學生在學校籌組宗教社團是不是就要被解散如果按照這個邏輯好 再者政治退出校園有它的歷史脈絡主要是過去國民黨威權時代在學校設置黨部\n602020\t629665\t那學生的出版看護都要經過審查還有教官來監控學生的言論等等所以本席因為在過去也在學生賽參考野百合學運所以我也成為被監控的一員那現在政治退出校園被簡化成校園不可討論政治或者學生不能從事政治性的宣傳活動我覺得恐怕有太去脈絡化的嫌疑那學生在校園內的政治的參與表達立場我覺得並沒有什麼不當\n630985\t645681\t那像當年太陽花學運在各大學遍地開花中正大學在校園內就有學生社團在行政大樓跟社科院中間那個大草坪發起這個民主講堂事後下方還在那個大草坪\n646361\t660847\t豎起一個學術自由碑那我想要請教部長的是學生自發性的發起在校園內的政治性的宣傳的活動這有違教育基本法嗎那教育部要如何捍衛學生的公民參與\n662876\t681938\t謝謝委員的指教我想台灣的一個校園民主跟自由言論自由這是台灣的資產也是我們共同捍衛的核心價值陳委員剛才所提的教育基本法所規範是學校不得為特定政治團體從事宣傳或者租借場地\n682839\t700231\t等等這些規範教育部之前在106年107年都先後發過文但是學生屬於個人的一個公民政治活動的一個參與他的一些主張這屬於言論自由的這個部分我想我們給予尊重而且學校也應該要確實要\n702512\t726553\t保護學生在言論上不影響到公共傷害或者對他人特定人的一些謾罵等等不當的一個言論我相信公民的素養許多的公民的一個活動他就是在培養現代化公民的素養的一個基本的一個內涵那我覺得這一個屬於學生的自發性的他不是為特定政黨來宣揚然後\n729529\t752134\t我想這應該要被保護也就是說簡單來講所有的教育中立這裡邊是規範到學校你不能為特定政黨陳委員剛才所提的過去就希望說政黨能夠退出校園保有讓學生自由開放然後一個更自由的思想的一個學習成長的空間我想這個精神是在這裡\n752774\t779529\t好 那本席在最後再用30秒就是說我為我們台南的鄉親做個請命喔那個我們台南的圖書館喔我們永康 我的選區永康喔它是台南市人口最多的行政區那之前喔 永康社教中心喔經過這個大廳跟演藝廳的這個改建整建之後其實我們人館 現在入場的這個人次有大幅的提升\n780189\t805550\t可是因為社交中心落成已經超過20年那裡面我們有一個圖書館那這個圖書館的各項設施跟空間的動線其實都已經不符合現在的要求那近年來因為我們數位科技也好裝置發展迅速所以館內很缺乏這些設備像說預約的取書機或自助的借書機等等那還有這裡面其實也缺乏很多的多功能的空間甚至也沒有所謂的親子廁所\n807071\t811693\t那所以我覺得面對現今的這個圖書館現代化越智慧化那我想期待說是不是有機會來獲得這個教育部的這個補助來讓我們的永康是一個最多行政人行政最多人口的行政區的這個永康的這個地方的圖書館有一個現代化的這個設備那有這個智慧科技的設備\n832820\t859173\t來24小時能運行所以這個經費大約要3300萬喔那所以也請部長來支持那也期待部長如果有空可不可以也來南下來看一下我們現在目前社交中心的狀況因為你看現在圖片是現況那現況這樣的一個圖片就很清楚知道說這個是就是很老舊20年以前的這種設備那其實是有待改善\n860253\t875023\t謝謝,我很關心因為確實永康大概是全國或可能最大城市的一個都會密集的一個地區那這個圖書館怎麼樣讓它更親近就那個行政院確實在114年今年的研業\n877266\t890845\t這個有通過了一個這個精進計畫就Big Maker的從這個創新實驗環境建置跟服務的精進所以委員剛才所提的我們也內部也看到了永康台南市永康圖書館也\n892307\t915301\t提出了一個申請希望在這個計畫裡邊我想我們有一定的一些審查我們樂觀其成因為它確實能夠服務社區有更多的一些的一些功能那如果有機會我想我也很樂意多了解第一線上他們實際的一些困難跟需要部裡邊的一些協助好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席\n","txt":"委員好部長好\n面對台灣現在時刻面臨中國的威脅恫嚇那中國也透過很多的這種滲透方式的手段要來擄弱台灣的民心可是這樣的行動如果是透過我們的孩子的教育下手那我想勢必是部長你我都非常擔心的狀況那我們來看根據教育基本法第二條\n當中就有提到說 教育的目的是以培養人民健全人格 民主素養 法治觀念 人文涵養 愛國教育 相處關懷 巴拉巴拉使其成為具有國家意識與國際視野之現代化人民\n那第六條也有提到說教育因本與中立的原則那近期當然爭議最大就是北一女的這個歐桂芝老師她被檢舉說在課堂上說台灣是中國的那本席尊重歐老師自己的這個民族及國家認同可是我們當然不會像習近平那樣動不動就說要打你打到像跟他變成同一國人\n那可是本席陸續有接到家長有關心教育的家長反應說他們擔心孩子的這個認知會因為歐老師的特殊言行會受到不利的影響那其實也不只歐老師啦其實本席有接到家長反應說他的孩子才國小三年級那孩子的班導在課堂上就跟同學說我們是中國人\n那孩子當下就覺得很奇怪媽媽就教我們台灣人現在老師說我們中國人那當然這個家長就認為說在台灣自由民主的這個國度裡小孩即便要有這個所謂的身份認同要理解這個身份認同的問題那老師也應該用多角度來分析說明而不是讓孩子去所謂的自行的評判或思考而不是單一角度的一句帶過那況且中國\n是我們反滲透法所定義的境外敵對勢力那我覺得自我認同並沒有對錯可是如果老師因為自我認同那持續為這個境外敵對勢力來做宣傳那我覺得這個問題就有點嚴重了那你可以是中國人可是你不可以為殺戮背書\n那本席想要請教是說當學生跟家長遇到學校老師利用教育的手段試圖混淆國家認同涉及違背教育基本法所提的培養人民成為具有國家意識與國際視野之現代化國民\n以及他為境外敵對勢力宣傳的狀況的時候我們要怎麼應對尤其是像國中以下階段的孩子他們的思辨能力都還在培養中國家意識也最容易受到左右那如果遇到本席剛剛提到的狀況的時候那我們應該怎麼因應\n那另外就是說老師在授課的時候在國家認同跟言論自由要如何拿捏才不會違反所謂的教育中立那部長你怎麼看這個事情\n我想國家的一個安全這個位階是最高啦也就國家的安全有一個國家如果沒有安全個人你不要說你有安全所以這個部分是非常清楚的那教育基本法也提到我們在教育裡面一個很重要的目的要培養具有國家意識進去國際視野所以以現在現代化的一個國運以現在教育部所做的我們就希望在未來怎麼樣去加強\n讓中小學生能夠對這個國家的一個認同對他的一個身處的一個地方有一個更多的一些理解跟愛護跟守護我想這是一個教育人最基本的那當然你\n你對文化上你可以有偏好但是也就是說你喜歡喝咖啡你喜歡喝茶這我們可以尊重但是身為一個教育工作者他的一個職責必須要遵循教育基本法我不需要你去為\n教育當然要中立但言論的自由裡面必須要還是在這個教育基本法裡面的一個框架裡面你身為一個教育工作者一個專門職業的工作者你必須要有一些承諾這個承諾是來自你對法治法令上的一些理解那國家意識你不能把它解釋中華人民共和國這我相信任何人是沒有辦法接受的對 所以\n特別是3月中旬的時候賴總統就有因應這個中國統戰滲透的國安舉辦一個國安高層會議那會中有提出17項的因應這個策略那其中一個策略就是讓教育部要會同相關的機關全面深化學生對中國的這個嗜讀教育\n教育部有說 我們會同陸委會 經濟部等部會持續推動這個課程跟研習並透過經費的補助或行政的協助來加強師生對兩岸關係與政府兩岸政策的正確認知那真的這個部分不曉得教育部後續有什麼樣的精進作為或有什麼新的措施來強化台灣學生的風險跟國安意識\n我想謝謝委員的這個指教我們確實現在請這個公民老師歷史老師我們等於說社會科的因為小學是社會科老師嘛國中也社會科高中他就學科分化有公民有歷史社會我們現在透過這一些學科的一個輔導團的老師然後能夠編撰一些相關的一些包括國家認同怎麼樣去\n試讀中國的許多的威脅包括國際的這些的一個情勢我們希望在一個教材裡面大概基本上在今年的暑假之前會開發出來那也希望能夠有更多的這些公民科的老師社會科歷史的老師也能夠來參加研習我想我們希望給學生的是一個正確的歷史史觀正確的一個資訊跟這個知識而不是\n一種很容易被以兒傳兒的這個混淆的一個概念好 謝謝部長那不是想要再追問就是說近期有不少公民團體在全台各地進行這個罷免的行動那也有大學生開始發起校園的倡議的活動\n不過前幾天在政大在校的學生有自發性在校園的中正圖書館下方的那個開放休憩的空間進行連署的行動的時候被圖書館的人員關切那圖書館的人員跟學生說要在那個場地進行活動需要事先進行這個場地的申請\n那可是學生認為說根據校內的規定如果需要借用的試用範圍是包含中正圖書館的大廳迴旋的藝廊商圖的梯廳還有賢達圖書館大廳及其他本館指定的空間這是被規範要申請場地的也就是說\n那天在中正圖書館下方的空間並沒有明確被列為要事先申請的場地那為什麼會突然受到關心那另外我們上個禮拜在中山大學的學生在校內張貼那個罷免的文宣那也疑似被下方人員撕除\n今天在城大 就是在中正堂前方的芒果樹下 有舉辦一個來野參拔的活動那也被關切 說這個場地必須要申請其實在一個芒果樹下的活動 基本上應該就是一個所謂的戶外的一個空間\n前述這些事件引發學生們很激烈的討論那有些人就開始提到說在校園內進行所謂的政治性的活動是否有違教育基本法的學校中立那政治推出校園這個事情也被拿出來很激烈在討論\n那本席是認為說教育基本法第六條第二項所指的是學校不得為特定政治團體從事宣傳或活動主詞是學校\n而不是學生那他的內涵應該是學校本身不能利用行政資源或者對 不能利用行政資源為特定的政黨來宣傳那如果是這樣的話那如果學生在校內不得替這個所謂的特定政治團體從事這個宣傳或活動那我們就來看看\n舉例來說第六條的第三項公立學校不得為特定宗教信仰從事宣傳或活動那學生在學校籌組宗教社團是不是就要被解散如果按照這個邏輯好 再者政治退出校園有它的歷史脈絡主要是過去國民黨威權時代在學校設置黨部\n那學生的出版看護都要經過審查還有教官來監控學生的言論等等所以本席因為在過去也在學生賽參考野百合學運所以我也成為被監控的一員那現在政治退出校園被簡化成校園不可討論政治或者學生不能從事政治性的宣傳活動我覺得恐怕有太去脈絡化的嫌疑那學生在校園內的政治的參與表達立場我覺得並沒有什麼不當\n那像當年太陽花學運在各大學遍地開花中正大學在校園內就有學生社團在行政大樓跟社科院中間那個大草坪發起這個民主講堂事後下方還在那個大草坪\n豎起一個學術自由碑那我想要請教部長的是學生自發性的發起在校園內的政治性的宣傳的活動這有違教育基本法嗎那教育部要如何捍衛學生的公民參與\n謝謝委員的指教我想台灣的一個校園民主跟自由言論自由這是台灣的資產也是我們共同捍衛的核心價值陳委員剛才所提的教育基本法所規範是學校不得為特定政治團體從事宣傳或者租借場地\n等等這些規範教育部之前在106年107年都先後發過文但是學生屬於個人的一個公民政治活動的一個參與他的一些主張這屬於言論自由的這個部分我想我們給予尊重而且學校也應該要確實要\n保護學生在言論上不影響到公共傷害或者對他人特定人的一些謾罵等等不當的一個言論我相信公民的素養許多的公民的一個活動他就是在培養現代化公民的素養的一個基本的一個內涵那我覺得這一個屬於學生的自發性的他不是為特定政黨來宣揚然後\n我想這應該要被保護也就是說簡單來講所有的教育中立這裡邊是規範到學校你不能為特定政黨陳委員剛才所提的過去就希望說政黨能夠退出校園保有讓學生自由開放然後一個更自由的思想的一個學習成長的空間我想這個精神是在這裡\n好 那本席在最後再用30秒就是說我為我們台南的鄉親做個請命喔那個我們台南的圖書館喔我們永康 我的選區永康喔它是台南市人口最多的行政區那之前喔 永康社教中心喔經過這個大廳跟演藝廳的這個改建整建之後其實我們人館 現在入場的這個人次有大幅的提升\n可是因為社交中心落成已經超過20年那裡面我們有一個圖書館那這個圖書館的各項設施跟空間的動線其實都已經不符合現在的要求那近年來因為我們數位科技也好裝置發展迅速所以館內很缺乏這些設備像說預約的取書機或自助的借書機等等那還有這裡面其實也缺乏很多的多功能的空間甚至也沒有所謂的親子廁所\n那所以我覺得面對現今的這個圖書館現代化越智慧化那我想期待說是不是有機會來獲得這個教育部的這個補助來讓我們的永康是一個最多行政人行政最多人口的行政區的這個永康的這個地方的圖書館有一個現代化的這個設備那有這個智慧科技的設備\n來24小時能運行所以這個經費大約要3300萬喔那所以也請部長來支持那也期待部長如果有空可不可以也來南下來看一下我們現在目前社交中心的狀況因為你看現在圖片是現況那現況這樣的一個圖片就很清楚知道說這個是就是很老舊20年以前的這種設備那其實是有待改善\n謝謝,我很關心因為確實永康大概是全國或可能最大城市的一個都會密集的一個地區那這個圖書館怎麼樣讓它更親近就那個行政院確實在114年今年的研業\n這個有通過了一個這個精進計畫就Big Maker的從這個創新實驗環境建置跟服務的精進所以委員剛才所提的我們也內部也看到了永康台南市永康圖書館也\n提出了一個申請希望在這個計畫裡邊我想我們有一定的一些審查我們樂觀其成因為它確實能夠服務社區有更多的一些的一些功能那如果有機會我想我也很樂意多了解第一線上他們實際的一些困難跟需要部裡邊的一些協助好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.329 --> 00:01.550\n委員好部長好\n\n00:20.629 --> 00:47.034\n面對台灣現在時刻面臨中國的威脅恫嚇那中國也透過很多的這種滲透方式的手段要來擄弱台灣的民心可是這樣的行動如果是透過我們的孩子的教育下手那我想勢必是部長你我都非常擔心的狀況那我們來看根據教育基本法第二條\n\n00:48.594 --> 01:07.168\n當中就有提到說教育的目的是以培養人民健全人格民主素養法治觀念人文涵養愛國教育相處關懷巴拉巴拉使其成為具有國家意識與國際視野之現代化人民\n\n01:08.229 --> 01:33.031\n那第六條也有提到說教育因本與中立的原則那近期當然爭議最大就是北一女的這個歐桂芝老師她被檢舉說在課堂上說台灣是中國的那本席尊重歐老師自己的這個民族及國家認同可是我們當然不會像習近平那樣動不動就說要打你打到像跟他變成同一國人\n\n01:34.232 --> 02:00.510\n那可是本席陸續有接到家長有關心教育的家長反應說他們擔心孩子的這個認知會因為歐老師的特殊言行會受到不利的影響那其實也不只歐老師啦其實本席有接到家長反應說他的孩子才國小三年級那孩子的班導在課堂上就跟同學說我們是中國人\n\n02:01.531 --> 02:28.622\n那孩子當下就覺得很奇怪媽媽就教我們台灣人現在老師說我們中國人那當然這個家長就認為說在台灣自由民主的這個國度裡小孩即便要有這個所謂的身份認同要理解這個身份認同的問題那老師也應該用多角度來分析說明而不是讓孩子去所謂的自行的評判或思考而不是單一角度的一句帶過那況且中國\n\n02:31.463 --> 02:54.815\n是我們反滲透法所定義的境外敵對勢力那我覺得自我認同並沒有對錯可是如果老師因為自我認同那持續為這個境外敵對勢力來做宣傳那我覺得這個問題就有點嚴重了那你可以是中國人可是你不可以為殺戮背書\n\n02:56.756 --> 03:15.795\n那本席想要請教是說當學生跟家長遇到學校老師利用教育的手段試圖混淆國家認同涉及違背教育基本法所提的培養人民成為具有國家意識與國際視野之現代化國民\n\n03:16.736 --> 03:34.650\n以及他為境外敵對勢力宣傳的狀況的時候我們要怎麼應對尤其是像國中以下階段的孩子他們的思辨能力都還在培養中國家意識也最容易受到左右那如果遇到本席剛剛提到的狀況的時候那我們應該怎麼因應\n\n03:35.891 --> 03:46.076\n那另外就是說老師在授課的時候在國家認同跟言論自由要如何拿捏才不會違反所謂的教育中立那部長你怎麼看這個事情\n\n03:48.578 --> 04:16.036\n我想國家的一個安全這個位階是最高啦也就國家的安全有一個國家如果沒有安全個人你不要說你有安全所以這個部分是非常清楚的那教育基本法也提到我們在教育裡面一個很重要的目的要培養具有國家意識進去國際視野所以以現在現代化的一個國運以現在教育部所做的我們就希望在未來怎麼樣去加強\n\n04:17.297 --> 04:31.193\n讓中小學生能夠對這個國家的一個認同對他的一個身處的一個地方有一個更多的一些理解跟愛護跟守護我想這是一個教育人最基本的那當然你\n\n04:32.074 --> 04:46.847\n你對文化上你可以有偏好但是也就是說你喜歡喝咖啡你喜歡喝茶這我們可以尊重但是身為一個教育工作者他的一個職責必須要遵循教育基本法我不需要你去為\n\n04:47.788 --> 05:12.967\n教育當然要中立但言論的自由裡面必須要還是在這個教育基本法裡面的一個框架裡面你身為一個教育工作者一個專門職業的工作者你必須要有一些承諾這個承諾是來自你對法治法令上的一些理解那國家意識你不能把它解釋中華人民共和國這我相信任何人是沒有辦法接受的對所以\n\n05:14.288 --> 05:34.771\n特別是3月中旬的時候賴總統就有因應這個中國統戰滲透的國安舉辦一個國安高層會議那會中有提出17項的因應這個策略那其中一個策略就是讓教育部要會同相關的機關全面深化學生對中國的這個嗜讀教育\n\n05:35.331 --> 05:42.073\n教育部有說我們會同陸委會經濟部等部會持續推動這個課程跟研習並透過經費的補助或行政的協助來加強師生對兩岸關係與政府兩岸政策的正確認知那真的這個部分不曉得教育部後續有什麼樣的精進作為或有什麼新的措施來強化台灣學生的風險跟國安意識\n\n06:00.948 --> 06:26.088\n我想謝謝委員的這個指教我們確實現在請這個公民老師歷史老師我們等於說社會科的因為小學是社會科老師嘛國中也社會科高中他就學科分化有公民有歷史社會我們現在透過這一些學科的一個輔導團的老師然後能夠編撰一些相關的一些包括國家認同怎麼樣去\n\n06:28.029 --> 06:53.779\n試讀中國的許多的威脅包括國際的這些的一個情勢我們希望在一個教材裡面大概基本上在今年的暑假之前會開發出來那也希望能夠有更多的這些公民科的老師社會科歷史的老師也能夠來參加研習我想我們希望給學生的是一個正確的歷史史觀正確的一個資訊跟這個知識而不是\n\n06:56.980 --> 07:09.858\n一種很容易被以兒傳兒的這個混淆的一個概念好謝謝部長那不是想要再追問就是說近期有不少公民團體在全台各地進行這個罷免的行動那也有大學生開始發起校園的倡議的活動\n\n07:14.484 --> 07:25.512\n不過前幾天在政大在校的學生有自發性在校園的中正圖書館下方的那個開放休憩的空間進行連署的行動的時候被圖書館的人員關切那圖書館的人員跟學生說要在那個場地進行活動需要事先進行這個場地的申請\n\n07:36.360 --> 07:40.605\n那可是學生認為說根據校內的規定如果需要借用的試用範圍是包含中正圖書館的大廳迴旋的藝廊商圖的梯廳還有賢達圖書館大廳及其他本館指定的空間這是被規範要申請場地的也就是說\n\n07:56.901 --> 08:13.532\n那天在中正圖書館下方的空間並沒有明確被列為要事先申請的場地那為什麼會突然受到關心那另外我們上個禮拜在中山大學的學生在校內張貼那個罷免的文宣那也疑似被下方人員撕除\n\n08:16.094 --> 08:36.231\n今天在城大就是在中正堂前方的芒果樹下有舉辦一個來野參拔的活動那也被關切說這個場地必須要申請其實在一個芒果樹下的活動基本上應該就是一個所謂的戶外的一個空間\n\n08:37.392 --> 08:55.805\n前述這些事件引發學生們很激烈的討論那有些人就開始提到說在校園內進行所謂的政治性的活動是否有違教育基本法的學校中立那政治推出校園這個事情也被拿出來很激烈在討論\n\n08:56.906 --> 09:07.656\n那本席是認為說教育基本法第六條第二項所指的是學校不得為特定政治團體從事宣傳或活動主詞是學校\n\n09:12.020 --> 09:31.386\n而不是學生那他的內涵應該是學校本身不能利用行政資源或者對不能利用行政資源為特定的政黨來宣傳那如果是這樣的話那如果學生在校內不得替這個所謂的特定政治團體從事這個宣傳或活動那我們就來看看\n\n09:36.167 --> 10:00.859\n舉例來說第六條的第三項公立學校不得為特定宗教信仰從事宣傳或活動那學生在學校籌組宗教社團是不是就要被解散如果按照這個邏輯好再者政治退出校園有它的歷史脈絡主要是過去國民黨威權時代在學校設置黨部\n\n10:02.020 --> 10:29.665\n那學生的出版看護都要經過審查還有教官來監控學生的言論等等所以本席因為在過去也在學生賽參考野百合學運所以我也成為被監控的一員那現在政治退出校園被簡化成校園不可討論政治或者學生不能從事政治性的宣傳活動我覺得恐怕有太去脈絡化的嫌疑那學生在校園內的政治的參與表達立場我覺得並沒有什麼不當\n\n10:30.985 --> 10:45.681\n那像當年太陽花學運在各大學遍地開花中正大學在校園內就有學生社團在行政大樓跟社科院中間那個大草坪發起這個民主講堂事後下方還在那個大草坪\n\n10:46.361 --> 11:00.847\n豎起一個學術自由碑那我想要請教部長的是學生自發性的發起在校園內的政治性的宣傳的活動這有違教育基本法嗎那教育部要如何捍衛學生的公民參與\n\n11:02.876 --> 11:21.938\n謝謝委員的指教我想台灣的一個校園民主跟自由言論自由這是台灣的資產也是我們共同捍衛的核心價值陳委員剛才所提的教育基本法所規範是學校不得為特定政治團體從事宣傳或者租借場地\n\n11:22.839 --> 11:40.231\n等等這些規範教育部之前在106年107年都先後發過文但是學生屬於個人的一個公民政治活動的一個參與他的一些主張這屬於言論自由的這個部分我想我們給予尊重而且學校也應該要確實要\n\n11:42.512 --> 12:06.553\n保護學生在言論上不影響到公共傷害或者對他人特定人的一些謾罵等等不當的一個言論我相信公民的素養許多的公民的一個活動他就是在培養現代化公民的素養的一個基本的一個內涵那我覺得這一個屬於學生的自發性的他不是為特定政黨來宣揚然後\n\n12:09.529 --> 12:32.134\n我想這應該要被保護也就是說簡單來講所有的教育中立這裡邊是規範到學校你不能為特定政黨陳委員剛才所提的過去就希望說政黨能夠退出校園保有讓學生自由開放然後一個更自由的思想的一個學習成長的空間我想這個精神是在這裡\n\n12:32.774 --> 12:59.529\n好那本席在最後再用30秒就是說我為我們台南的鄉親做個請命喔那個我們台南的圖書館喔我們永康我的選區永康喔它是台南市人口最多的行政區那之前喔永康社教中心喔經過這個大廳跟演藝廳的這個改建整建之後其實我們人館現在入場的這個人次有大幅的提升\n\n13:00.189 --> 13:25.550\n可是因為社交中心落成已經超過20年那裡面我們有一個圖書館那這個圖書館的各項設施跟空間的動線其實都已經不符合現在的要求那近年來因為我們數位科技也好裝置發展迅速所以館內很缺乏這些設備像說預約的取書機或自助的借書機等等那還有這裡面其實也缺乏很多的多功能的空間甚至也沒有所謂的親子廁所\n\n13:27.071 --> 13:31.693\n那所以我覺得面對現今的這個圖書館現代化越智慧化那我想期待說是不是有機會來獲得這個教育部的這個補助來讓我們的永康是一個最多行政人行政最多人口的行政區的這個永康的這個地方的圖書館有一個現代化的這個設備那有這個智慧科技的設備\n\n13:52.820 --> 14:19.173\n來24小時能運行所以這個經費大約要3300萬喔那所以也請部長來支持那也期待部長如果有空可不可以也來南下來看一下我們現在目前社交中心的狀況因為你看現在圖片是現況那現況這樣的一個圖片就很清楚知道說這個是就是很老舊20年以前的這種設備那其實是有待改善\n\n14:20.253 --> 14:35.023\n謝謝,我很關心因為確實永康大概是全國或可能最大城市的一個都會密集的一個地區那這個圖書館怎麼樣讓它更親近就那個行政院確實在114年今年的研業\n\n14:37.266 --> 14:50.845\n這個有通過了一個這個精進計畫就BigMaker的從這個創新實驗環境建置跟服務的精進所以委員剛才所提的我們也內部也看到了永康台南市永康圖書館也\n\n14:52.307 --> 15:15.301\n提出了一個申請希望在這個計畫裡邊我想我們有一定的一些審查我們樂觀其成因為它確實能夠服務社區有更多的一些的一些功能那如果有機會我想我也很樂意多了解第一線上他們實際的一些困難跟需要部裡邊的一些協助好謝謝部長謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.329,"end":1.55,"text":"委員好部長好"},{"start":20.629,"end":47.034,"text":"面對台灣現在時刻面臨中國的威脅恫嚇那中國也透過很多的這種滲透方式的手段要來擄弱台灣的民心可是這樣的行動如果是透過我們的孩子的教育下手那我想勢必是部長你我都非常擔心的狀況那我們來看根據教育基本法第二條"},{"start":48.594,"end":67.168,"text":"當中就有提到說 教育的目的是以培養人民健全人格 民主素養 法治觀念 人文涵養 愛國教育 相處關懷 巴拉巴拉使其成為具有國家意識與國際視野之現代化人民"},{"start":68.229,"end":93.031,"text":"那第六條也有提到說教育因本與中立的原則那近期當然爭議最大就是北一女的這個歐桂芝老師她被檢舉說在課堂上說台灣是中國的那本席尊重歐老師自己的這個民族及國家認同可是我們當然不會像習近平那樣動不動就說要打你打到像跟他變成同一國人"},{"start":94.232,"end":120.51,"text":"那可是本席陸續有接到家長有關心教育的家長反應說他們擔心孩子的這個認知會因為歐老師的特殊言行會受到不利的影響那其實也不只歐老師啦其實本席有接到家長反應說他的孩子才國小三年級那孩子的班導在課堂上就跟同學說我們是中國人"},{"start":121.531,"end":148.622,"text":"那孩子當下就覺得很奇怪媽媽就教我們台灣人現在老師說我們中國人那當然這個家長就認為說在台灣自由民主的這個國度裡小孩即便要有這個所謂的身份認同要理解這個身份認同的問題那老師也應該用多角度來分析說明而不是讓孩子去所謂的自行的評判或思考而不是單一角度的一句帶過那況且中國"},{"start":151.463,"end":174.815,"text":"是我們反滲透法所定義的境外敵對勢力那我覺得自我認同並沒有對錯可是如果老師因為自我認同那持續為這個境外敵對勢力來做宣傳那我覺得這個問題就有點嚴重了那你可以是中國人可是你不可以為殺戮背書"},{"start":176.756,"end":195.795,"text":"那本席想要請教是說當學生跟家長遇到學校老師利用教育的手段試圖混淆國家認同涉及違背教育基本法所提的培養人民成為具有國家意識與國際視野之現代化國民"},{"start":196.736,"end":214.65,"text":"以及他為境外敵對勢力宣傳的狀況的時候我們要怎麼應對尤其是像國中以下階段的孩子他們的思辨能力都還在培養中國家意識也最容易受到左右那如果遇到本席剛剛提到的狀況的時候那我們應該怎麼因應"},{"start":215.891,"end":226.076,"text":"那另外就是說老師在授課的時候在國家認同跟言論自由要如何拿捏才不會違反所謂的教育中立那部長你怎麼看這個事情"},{"start":228.578,"end":256.036,"text":"我想國家的一個安全這個位階是最高啦也就國家的安全有一個國家如果沒有安全個人你不要說你有安全所以這個部分是非常清楚的那教育基本法也提到我們在教育裡面一個很重要的目的要培養具有國家意識進去國際視野所以以現在現代化的一個國運以現在教育部所做的我們就希望在未來怎麼樣去加強"},{"start":257.297,"end":271.193,"text":"讓中小學生能夠對這個國家的一個認同對他的一個身處的一個地方有一個更多的一些理解跟愛護跟守護我想這是一個教育人最基本的那當然你"},{"start":272.074,"end":286.847,"text":"你對文化上你可以有偏好但是也就是說你喜歡喝咖啡你喜歡喝茶這我們可以尊重但是身為一個教育工作者他的一個職責必須要遵循教育基本法我不需要你去為"},{"start":287.788,"end":312.967,"text":"教育當然要中立但言論的自由裡面必須要還是在這個教育基本法裡面的一個框架裡面你身為一個教育工作者一個專門職業的工作者你必須要有一些承諾這個承諾是來自你對法治法令上的一些理解那國家意識你不能把它解釋中華人民共和國這我相信任何人是沒有辦法接受的對 所以"},{"start":314.288,"end":334.771,"text":"特別是3月中旬的時候賴總統就有因應這個中國統戰滲透的國安舉辦一個國安高層會議那會中有提出17項的因應這個策略那其中一個策略就是讓教育部要會同相關的機關全面深化學生對中國的這個嗜讀教育"},{"start":335.331,"end":342.073,"text":"教育部有說 我們會同陸委會 經濟部等部會持續推動這個課程跟研習並透過經費的補助或行政的協助來加強師生對兩岸關係與政府兩岸政策的正確認知那真的這個部分不曉得教育部後續有什麼樣的精進作為或有什麼新的措施來強化台灣學生的風險跟國安意識"},{"start":360.948,"end":386.088,"text":"我想謝謝委員的這個指教我們確實現在請這個公民老師歷史老師我們等於說社會科的因為小學是社會科老師嘛國中也社會科高中他就學科分化有公民有歷史社會我們現在透過這一些學科的一個輔導團的老師然後能夠編撰一些相關的一些包括國家認同怎麼樣去"},{"start":388.029,"end":413.779,"text":"試讀中國的許多的威脅包括國際的這些的一個情勢我們希望在一個教材裡面大概基本上在今年的暑假之前會開發出來那也希望能夠有更多的這些公民科的老師社會科歷史的老師也能夠來參加研習我想我們希望給學生的是一個正確的歷史史觀正確的一個資訊跟這個知識而不是"},{"start":416.98,"end":429.858,"text":"一種很容易被以兒傳兒的這個混淆的一個概念好 謝謝部長那不是想要再追問就是說近期有不少公民團體在全台各地進行這個罷免的行動那也有大學生開始發起校園的倡議的活動"},{"start":434.484,"end":445.512,"text":"不過前幾天在政大在校的學生有自發性在校園的中正圖書館下方的那個開放休憩的空間進行連署的行動的時候被圖書館的人員關切那圖書館的人員跟學生說要在那個場地進行活動需要事先進行這個場地的申請"},{"start":456.36,"end":460.605,"text":"那可是學生認為說根據校內的規定如果需要借用的試用範圍是包含中正圖書館的大廳迴旋的藝廊商圖的梯廳還有賢達圖書館大廳及其他本館指定的空間這是被規範要申請場地的也就是說"},{"start":476.901,"end":493.532,"text":"那天在中正圖書館下方的空間並沒有明確被列為要事先申請的場地那為什麼會突然受到關心那另外我們上個禮拜在中山大學的學生在校內張貼那個罷免的文宣那也疑似被下方人員撕除"},{"start":496.094,"end":516.231,"text":"今天在城大 就是在中正堂前方的芒果樹下 有舉辦一個來野參拔的活動那也被關切 說這個場地必須要申請其實在一個芒果樹下的活動 基本上應該就是一個所謂的戶外的一個空間"},{"start":517.392,"end":535.805,"text":"前述這些事件引發學生們很激烈的討論那有些人就開始提到說在校園內進行所謂的政治性的活動是否有違教育基本法的學校中立那政治推出校園這個事情也被拿出來很激烈在討論"},{"start":536.906,"end":547.656,"text":"那本席是認為說教育基本法第六條第二項所指的是學校不得為特定政治團體從事宣傳或活動主詞是學校"},{"start":552.02,"end":571.386,"text":"而不是學生那他的內涵應該是學校本身不能利用行政資源或者對 不能利用行政資源為特定的政黨來宣傳那如果是這樣的話那如果學生在校內不得替這個所謂的特定政治團體從事這個宣傳或活動那我們就來看看"},{"start":576.167,"end":600.859,"text":"舉例來說第六條的第三項公立學校不得為特定宗教信仰從事宣傳或活動那學生在學校籌組宗教社團是不是就要被解散如果按照這個邏輯好 再者政治退出校園有它的歷史脈絡主要是過去國民黨威權時代在學校設置黨部"},{"start":602.02,"end":629.665,"text":"那學生的出版看護都要經過審查還有教官來監控學生的言論等等所以本席因為在過去也在學生賽參考野百合學運所以我也成為被監控的一員那現在政治退出校園被簡化成校園不可討論政治或者學生不能從事政治性的宣傳活動我覺得恐怕有太去脈絡化的嫌疑那學生在校園內的政治的參與表達立場我覺得並沒有什麼不當"},{"start":630.985,"end":645.681,"text":"那像當年太陽花學運在各大學遍地開花中正大學在校園內就有學生社團在行政大樓跟社科院中間那個大草坪發起這個民主講堂事後下方還在那個大草坪"},{"start":646.361,"end":660.847,"text":"豎起一個學術自由碑那我想要請教部長的是學生自發性的發起在校園內的政治性的宣傳的活動這有違教育基本法嗎那教育部要如何捍衛學生的公民參與"},{"start":662.876,"end":681.938,"text":"謝謝委員的指教我想台灣的一個校園民主跟自由言論自由這是台灣的資產也是我們共同捍衛的核心價值陳委員剛才所提的教育基本法所規範是學校不得為特定政治團體從事宣傳或者租借場地"},{"start":682.839,"end":700.231,"text":"等等這些規範教育部之前在106年107年都先後發過文但是學生屬於個人的一個公民政治活動的一個參與他的一些主張這屬於言論自由的這個部分我想我們給予尊重而且學校也應該要確實要"},{"start":702.512,"end":726.553,"text":"保護學生在言論上不影響到公共傷害或者對他人特定人的一些謾罵等等不當的一個言論我相信公民的素養許多的公民的一個活動他就是在培養現代化公民的素養的一個基本的一個內涵那我覺得這一個屬於學生的自發性的他不是為特定政黨來宣揚然後"},{"start":729.529,"end":752.134,"text":"我想這應該要被保護也就是說簡單來講所有的教育中立這裡邊是規範到學校你不能為特定政黨陳委員剛才所提的過去就希望說政黨能夠退出校園保有讓學生自由開放然後一個更自由的思想的一個學習成長的空間我想這個精神是在這裡"},{"start":752.774,"end":779.529,"text":"好 那本席在最後再用30秒就是說我為我們台南的鄉親做個請命喔那個我們台南的圖書館喔我們永康 我的選區永康喔它是台南市人口最多的行政區那之前喔 永康社教中心喔經過這個大廳跟演藝廳的這個改建整建之後其實我們人館 現在入場的這個人次有大幅的提升"},{"start":780.189,"end":805.55,"text":"可是因為社交中心落成已經超過20年那裡面我們有一個圖書館那這個圖書館的各項設施跟空間的動線其實都已經不符合現在的要求那近年來因為我們數位科技也好裝置發展迅速所以館內很缺乏這些設備像說預約的取書機或自助的借書機等等那還有這裡面其實也缺乏很多的多功能的空間甚至也沒有所謂的親子廁所"},{"start":807.071,"end":811.693,"text":"那所以我覺得面對現今的這個圖書館現代化越智慧化那我想期待說是不是有機會來獲得這個教育部的這個補助來讓我們的永康是一個最多行政人行政最多人口的行政區的這個永康的這個地方的圖書館有一個現代化的這個設備那有這個智慧科技的設備"},{"start":832.82,"end":859.173,"text":"來24小時能運行所以這個經費大約要3300萬喔那所以也請部長來支持那也期待部長如果有空可不可以也來南下來看一下我們現在目前社交中心的狀況因為你看現在圖片是現況那現況這樣的一個圖片就很清楚知道說這個是就是很老舊20年以前的這種設備那其實是有待改善"},{"start":860.253,"end":875.023,"text":"謝謝,我很關心因為確實永康大概是全國或可能最大城市的一個都會密集的一個地區那這個圖書館怎麼樣讓它更親近就那個行政院確實在114年今年的研業"},{"start":877.266,"end":890.845,"text":"這個有通過了一個這個精進計畫就Big Maker的從這個創新實驗環境建置跟服務的精進所以委員剛才所提的我們也內部也看到了永康台南市永康圖書館也"},{"start":892.307,"end":915.301,"text":"提出了一個申請希望在這個計畫裡邊我想我們有一定的一些審查我們樂觀其成因為它確實能夠服務社區有更多的一些的一些功能那如果有機會我想我也很樂意多了解第一線上他們實際的一些困難跟需要部裡邊的一些協助好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":414,"blocks":[["林委員宜瑾：（10時47分）謝謝主席，有請鄭部長。"],["主席：請鄭部長備質詢，謝謝。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["林委員宜瑾：部長好。面對臺灣現在時刻面臨中國的威脅恫嚇，中國也透過很多種滲透方式的手段要來籠絡臺灣的民心，可是這樣的行動，如果是透過我們孩子的教育下手，勢必是部長你我都非常擔心的狀況。根據教育基本法第二條，當中就有提到教育的目的是以培養人民健全人格、民主素養、法治觀念、人文涵養、愛國教育、鄉土關懷等等，使其成為具有國家意識與國際視野之現代化人民；第六條也有提到，教育應本於中立的原則。近期當然爭議最大就是北一女的區桂芝老師，她被檢舉在課堂上說臺灣是中國的，本席尊重區老師自己的民族及國家認同，可是我們當然不會像習近平那樣，動不動就說要打你打到跟他變成同一國人。可是本席陸續又有接到關心教育的家長反映，他們擔心孩子的認知會因為區老師的特殊言行而受到不利的影響，其實也不只區老師，本席也有接到家長反映，他的孩子才國小三年級，孩子的班導在課堂上跟同學說我們是中國人，孩子當下就覺得很奇怪，媽媽就教我們說我們是臺灣人，為什麼老師說我們是中國人？當然這個家長就認為在臺灣自由民主的國度裡，小孩即便要理解身分認同的問題，老師也應該用多角度來分析說明，讓孩子自行評判或思考，而不是單一角度的一句帶過，況且中國是我們反滲透法所定義的境外敵對勢力，我覺得自我認同並沒有對錯，可是如果老師因為自我認同而持續為境外敵對勢力做宣傳，我覺得這個問題就有點嚴重了，你可以是中國人，可是你不可以為殺戮背書。本席想要請教的是，當學生跟家長遇到學校老師利用教育的手段，試圖混淆國家認同，涉及違背教育基本法所提的培養人民成為具有國家意識與國際視野之現代化國民，以及為境外敵對勢力宣傳的狀況時，我們要怎麼應對？尤其是國中以下階段的孩子，他們的思辨能力都還在培養中，國家意識也最容易受到左右，如果遇到本席剛剛提到的狀況時，我們應該怎麼因應？另外，老師在授課的時候，對於國家認同及言論自由要如何拿捏，才不會違反所謂的教育中立？部長，你怎麼看這件事情？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想國家安全的位階是最高的，國家如果沒有安全，個人你不要說你有安全，這個部分是非常清楚的。教育基本法也提到，教育裡面一個很重要的目的是要培養具有國家意識兼具國際視野的人，所以現在教育部所做的，我們就是希望未來加強中小學生對於國家的認同，對他所身處的地方有更多的理解、愛護及守護，我想這是一個教育人最基本的。當然對文化上你可以有偏好，也就是說，你喜歡喝咖啡或你喜歡喝茶我們可以尊重，但是身為一個教育工作者，他的職責必須要遵循教育基本法。教育當然要中立，言論自由還是必須在教育基本法的框架裡面，你身為一個教育工作者、一個專門職業的工作者，你必須要有一些承諾，這個承諾是來自你對法治、法令上的一些理解，國家意識你不能把它解釋為中華人民共和國，我相信這是任何人都沒有辦法接受的。"],["林委員宜瑾：對，特別是3月中旬的時候，賴總統就有因應中國統戰滲透舉辦國安高層會議，會中有提出17項因應策略，其中一個策略就是讓教育部會同相關機關全面深化學生對中國的識讀教育，教育部有說會會同陸委會、經濟部等部會持續推動課程跟研習，並透過經費的補助或行政的協助，來加強師生對兩岸關係與政府兩岸政策的正確認知，針對這個部分，不曉得教育部後續有什麼樣的精進作為或有什麼新的措施來強化臺灣學生的風險認知及國安意識？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員的指教，確實我們現在有請公民老師、歷史老師等社會科的老師，因為小學是社會科老師，國中有社會科，高中就學科分化，有公民、歷史、社會，我們現在透過這一些學科的輔導團老師編撰相關的教材，包括國家認同、怎麼樣識讀中國的許多威脅，包括國際情勢等等，我們希望在這個教材裡面呈現出來，基本上在今年的暑假之前會開發出來，也希望有更多的公民科老師、社會科、歷史科的老師能夠來參加研習。我們希望給學生的是一個正確的歷史史觀、正確的資訊與知識，而不是一種很容易被以訛傳訛的混淆概念。"],["林委員宜瑾：謝謝部長。本席想要再追問的是，近期有不少公民團體在全臺各地進行罷免的行動，也有大學生開始發起校園倡議的活動，不過前幾天政大在校學生自發性在校園的中正圖書館下方開放休憩的空間進行連署的行動時，被圖書館的人員關切，圖書館人員跟學生說，若要用那個場地進行活動需要事先進行場地的申請，可是學生認為根據校內的規定，需要借用的適用範圍是包含中正圖書館的大廳、迴旋藝廊、商圖的梯廳，還有賢達圖書館大廳及其他本館指定的空間，這是被規範要申請場地的，也就是說，那天在中正圖書館下方的空間並沒有明確被列為要事先申請的場地，為什麼會突然受到關心？另外，上禮拜中山大學的學生在校內張貼罷免的文宣，也疑似被校方人員私處。今天在成大中正堂前方的芒果樹下舉辦「來野餐ㄅㄚˋ！」的活動，也被關切說這個場地必須要申請，其實在芒果樹下的活動，基本上應該就是所謂的戶外空間。","前述這些事件引發學生們很激烈的討論，有些人就開始提到，在校園內進行所謂政治性的活動，是否有違教育基本法的學校中立？政治退出校園這件事情也被拿出來很激烈地在討論。本席認為教育基本法第六條第二項所指的是學校不得為特定政治團體從事宣傳或活動，主詞是學校，而不是學生，它的內涵應該是學校本身不能利用行政資源為特定政黨宣傳。如果是這樣的話，倘若學生在校內不得替所謂的特定政治團體從事宣傳或活動，我們就來看看第六條第三項規定公立學校不得為特定宗教信仰從事宣傳或活動，那麼學生在學校籌組宗教社團，是不是就要被解散？如果按照這個邏輯。再者，政治退出校園有它的歷史脈絡，主要是過去國民黨威權時代，在學校設置黨部，學生出版刊物都要經過審查，還有教官來監控學生的言論等等，因為本席在學生時代也曾參與野百合學運，所以我也成為被監控的一員，現在政治退出校園被簡化成校園不可討論政治，或者學生不能從事政治性的宣傳活動，我覺得恐怕有太去脈絡化的嫌疑。學生在校園內政治的參與表達立場，我覺得並沒有什麼不當，像當年太陽花學運在各大學遍地開花，中正大學的校園內就有學生社團在行政大樓跟社科院中間那個大草坪發起民主講堂，事後校方還在那個大草坪豎起一個學術自由碑，我想請教部長的是，學生自發性的發起在校園內的政治性宣傳活動，這有違教育基本法嗎？教育部要如何捍衛學生的公民參與？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員的指教，我想臺灣的校園民主及言論自由，這是臺灣的資產，也是我們共同捍衛的核心價值。誠如委員剛才所提，教育基本法所規範的是學校不得為特定政治團體從事宣傳或者租借場地等等，這些規範教育部在106年、107年都先後發過文，但是學生個人公民政治活動參與的一些主張是屬於言論自由的部分，我想我們給予尊重，而且學校也應該要確實保護學生在言論上不涉及到公共傷害，或者對他人或特定人士的謾罵等等的不當言論，我相信許多公民活動就是在培養現代化公民素養的基本內涵，我覺得這個是屬於學生自發性的活動，他不是為特定政黨來宣揚，我想這應該要被保護。也就是說，簡單來講，所有的教育中立是規範到……"],["林委員宜瑾：學校端。"],["鄭部長英耀：學校，不能為特定政黨，誠如委員剛才所提的，過去就希望政黨能夠退出校園，讓學生保有自由、開放，以及更具自由思想的學習、成長空間，我想這個精神是在這裡。"],["林委員宜瑾：好。本席最後再用30秒為我們臺南的鄉親做個請命，我們臺南的圖書館，以我的選區永康為例，它是臺南市人口最多的行政區，之前永康社教中心經過大廳及演藝廳的改建、整建之後，現在入場的人次有大幅的提升。這個社教中心落成已經超過20年，裡面有一個圖書館，這個圖書館的各項設施及空間的動線其實都已經不符合現在的要求，近年來隨著數位科技、裝置發展迅速，館內很缺乏這些設備，像預約的取書機或自助的借書機等等，還有裡面缺乏多功能的空間，甚至也沒有親子廁所。面對現今圖書館的現代化、愈智慧化，我期待有機會獲得教育部的補助，讓永康這個最多人口行政區的圖書館，有一個現代化的設備及智慧科技的設備能24小時運行，這筆經費大約要3,300萬，請部長支持，也期待部長如果有空，可不可以南下看一下目前社教中心的狀況？你看一下，簡報上的圖片是現況，從現況的圖片就可以很清楚知道這是很老舊、20年以前的設備，其實是有待改善的。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員關心，永康可能是全國最大的城市、都會密集的地區，為了讓圖書館更精進，行政院在114年（今年）元月初通過了「Big Maker全國公共圖書館科技運用與創新實驗環境建置及服務精進計畫」，針對委員剛才所提的，我們內部也看到臺南市永康圖書館提出申請，希望納入這個計畫裡面，我想我們有一定的審查，所以我們樂觀其成，因為它確實能夠服務社區，有更多的功能。如果有機會，我也很樂意多瞭解第一線實際的困難及需要部裡的協助。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝林宜瑾召委的質詢。部長、官員請回座。","我們休息5分鐘，謝謝。","休息（11時3分）","繼續開會（11時8分）"],["主席（林委員沛祥代）：現在有請吳思瑤委員質詢，時間4分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":186,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-7","speakers":["葛如鈞","萬美玲","柯志恩","劉書彬","羅廷瑋","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林宜瑾","吳思瑤","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","林沛祥","張雅琳","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","范雲","李坤城","謝龍介","王定宇","黃國昌","翁曉玲","陳培瑜","葉元之","高金素梅"],"page_start":113,"meetingDate":["2025-04-14"],"gazette_id":"1143702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143702_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143702_00003"}}}