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317.768, \"text\": \"我想教育部已經三審五令而且先前也發了兩次的一個公文針對這次的事件嗎還是以前先前先前那我們是不是可以再提醒一下我想我們可以教育部來主動來\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 310.157, \"end\": 310.297, \"score\": 0.734}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 310.297, \"end\": 310.498, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 310.498, \"end\": 310.658, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 310.658, \"end\": 310.798, \"score\": 0.431}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 310.798, \"end\": 310.958, \"score\": 0.539}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 310.958, \"end\": 311.499, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 311.499, \"end\": 311.799, \"score\": 0.689}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 311.799, \"end\": 311.94, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"令\", \"start\": 311.94, \"end\": 312.1, \"score\": 0.624}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 312.1, \"end\": 312.3, \"score\": 0.632}, {\"word\": \"且\", \"start\": 312.3, \"end\": 312.861, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 312.861, 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\"想在教育人員或者老師裡邊他本來就有受學校的規範我剛才也特別跟委員報告過這個教育基本法裡邊他的教育目的你的今天扮演老師就是要服從我們教育基本法第二條你要怎麼樣去培養可是現在學生現在是校長已經公然了甚至我也有收到學校老師當教育人員違反他應該恪守的一些法律那這個部分我想我們會\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 392.116, \"end\": 392.296, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 392.296, \"end\": 392.476, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 392.476, \"end\": 392.756, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 392.756, \"end\": 393.236, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 393.236, \"end\": 393.837, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 393.837, \"end\": 393.997, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 393.997, \"end\": 394.117, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"老\", \"start\": 394.117, \"end\": 394.997, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"師\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 394.997, \"end\": 395.177, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 395.177, \"end\": 395.417, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, 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{\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 862.21, \"end\": 862.271, \"score\": 0.683}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 862.271, \"end\": 862.331, \"score\": 0.277}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 862.331, \"end\": 862.411, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 862.411, \"end\": 862.671, \"score\": 0.716}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 862.671, \"end\": 862.811, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 862.811, \"end\": 863.531, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 863.531, \"end\": 863.671, \"score\": 0.663}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 863.671, \"end\": 864.012, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 864.012, \"end\": 864.032, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"雅\", \"start\": 864.032, \"end\": 864.112, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"玲\", \"start\": 864.112, \"end\": 864.132, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,703 --> 00:00:09,403\n有請部長謝謝有請部長備質詢謝謝委員好\n\n2\n00:00:18,604 --> 00:00:43,095\n部長好開始之前我想要先說一件事情剛剛柯志恩委員有講到中正大學這件事情說這件事情應該是無關轉型正義但是我必須跟部長做個說明在1986年在中正大學的中正大學校當時就是為了紀念獨裁者蔣中正而命名這個名字這在校史館上面寫得清清楚楚並且通過了行政院第2006次的院會決議\n\n3\n00:00:46,958 --> 00:01:01,837\n然後呢我也必須再跟部長做個說明就是在促轉會裡面其實都有特別的去提到我們有一些相關的路名包含中正、介受、進國總共有355條都是要必須來做一個整體的處理就是要去威權化\n\n4\n00:01:02,478 --> 00:01:28,557\n要去威權化所以呢我必須要做個希望就是說雖然我們現在是針對於建物我們有做一些相關的補助計畫但我認為接下來我們也要來處理相關的大學學校的命名所以我也呼籲我們的國民黨不要在這個時候還要再來扭曲事實然後為威權來插枝磨粉所以這一點是希望部長要清楚的了解這是我們應該要前進的方向\n\n5\n00:01:29,602 --> 00:01:58,123\n好那接下來就回到我今天的這個質詢的題目就是說剛剛其實也有委員就是來質詢這件事情就是說有很多的學生呢他們現在在校園裡面也發起了一些連署那也被遇到了一些打壓那甚至我們的翁曉琳委員也是呼籲說這個應該要政治要這個大罷免連署禁錄校園這個基本上如果我們不管的話我們就是默不作聲這件事情我也想要來請跟部長來做一些討論\n\n6\n00:02:00,509 --> 00:02:27,629\n就是說我們現在在教育基本法的第六條裡面是有講到教育應本中立的原則學校不得為特定政治團體從事宣傳或活動主管機關行政機關及學校亦不得強迫學校行政人員教師及學生參與任何的政治活動喔那我想問一下就是說當抱歉喔我們再看一下這一張就是當時其實我去查了一下我們的立法院第三屆第四期的文書在\n\n7\n00:02:29,010 --> 00:02:48,961\n86年9月25號一讀的行政院文書是這樣子寫的它是寫說這一條呢這一條是要來確保教育專業自主及正常發展避免政治不當干預當時的一個背景是這樣這最主要是因為當時的國民黨透過了這樣子的方式去做很多的干預\n\n8\n00:02:50,464 --> 00:03:06,790\n所以我想請教一下部長目前也有看到這些學生嘛他們面臨到的一些爭議嘛對不對像是這個清華大學啦學生在人事院擺罷免連署站啊但是校方雖然沒有發現違規行為喔可是它援引了這個就是第六條\n\n9\n00:03:07,910 --> 00:03:35,477\n禁止特定政治活動進入校園那同樣的事情政治大學、師範大學、北一大都有類似這樣子的一個關心那甚至台大的學生面臨了他被成大的副教授謾罵那但是我們也看到了中山大學做出了一個很不錯的榜樣這個校長是這樣說的只要不涉及侮辱、毀謗或歧視其實都是政治言論自由的一個表現\n\n10\n00:03:37,017 --> 00:03:56,838\n所以我想這邊我想要聽聽說那部長您的看法到底是什麼因為學生主張任何政治行為其實應該都要被尊重因為我們的憲法其實有保障參政權我們的這個兒童的權利公約裡面也有講說兒童可以有參與公共事務的權利這都已經國內法化了所以我想聽聽部長可不可以分享您的看法是什麼\n\n11\n00:03:58,126 --> 00:04:19,954\n謝謝委員指導我想我完全同意剛才委員所提的因為這一個學校保持中立然後不給政黨因為是從學校的規範因為當時他確實希望政黨退出校園讓學校能夠恢復到一個自由的思潮然後能夠真正有一個更好的\n\n12\n00:04:20,454 --> 00:04:41,852\n所以學校不會特定的政黨去做宣傳或者許多舉辦場地出租活動但是這是屬於學生的公民參與公共事務的關係包含他對自己的權益這都是屬於言論自由的一個層次\n\n13\n00:04:44,074 --> 00:05:07,094\n剛才就像這個中山大學這個李校長講不要涉及侮辱毀謗歧視甚至我在談有許多的活動要考慮不會影響到公共安全這些的等等的一個考量所以部長您的看法應該是支持學生可以來自由的表達自己的一些政治的想法那是一個公民素養學習好那我想請教一下部長如果接下來我們又發生這樣子的事情的話我們應該如何來協助學生呢\n\n14\n00:05:10,157 --> 00:05:17,768\n我想教育部已經三審五令而且先前也發了兩次的一個公文針對這次的事件嗎還是以前先前先前那我們是不是可以再提醒一下我想我們可以教育部來主動來\n\n15\n00:05:27,501 --> 00:05:42,985\n我希望部長可以主動來發出這個公文提醒大家一下好不好因為這不是只有一間學校是一間兩間三間學校都發生這樣子的事情了我們必須要把這件事情講清楚啦好不好那再來還有就是說我們之前也有發生桃園的小學它這個校長呢在自己的臉\n\n16\n00:05:43,365 --> 00:05:58,519\n在自己的抖音上面寫他的IP中國台灣他也發了一個我愛你中國那其實剛剛也有相關的委員去提到這件事情那我就想要請教部長就是說我們到底要如何的去加強教職員的國安意識要如何的去強化教職\n\n17\n00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:22,025\n教職員對國家的效忠剛剛部長您提的是說我們會請公民課、社會課的老師增加一些嗜讀的教育來協助我們的孩子了解國際的威脅可是我們現在的問題是發生在教職員所以這個部分的話我們到底有沒有可以比照我們這個軍人對公立學校的校長、教師等\n\n18\n00:06:23,086 --> 00:06:30,260\n公務人員建立明確的效忠國家的規範與法律責任以防止教育體系被滲透\n\n19\n00:06:32,116 --> 00:06:58,405\n想在教育人員或者老師裡邊他本來就有受學校的規範我剛才也特別跟委員報告過這個教育基本法裡邊他的教育目的你的今天扮演老師就是要服從我們教育基本法第二條你要怎麼樣去培養可是現在學生現在是校長已經公然了甚至我也有收到學校老師當教育人員違反他應該恪守的一些法律那這個部分我想我們會\n\n20\n00:06:59,827 --> 00:07:22,299\n本來在聘書裡面他就要依法同意我們都要簽嘛但是問題是事實上就是做了嘛那做了到底該怎麼辦嘛那這一個部分我想我們會在跟地方政府裡面來協調這一個希望能夠有更明確的一些規範我想我們要有一個更明確的規範喔因為我真的有聽到有小學的有國中的老師教學生去看我們中國的央視來了解中國歷史\n\n21\n00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:41,311\n我想這個部分我會從行政體系來提醒也希望能夠跟各地方縣市政府來合作對教育人員跟老師怎麼樣給予對國家認同裡邊有一個更積極的好有個更清楚的規範好不好這個部分大概多久的時候可以有一些相關的進度呢因為說要跟地方政府討論嘛那大概是什麼時候我們可以再追後續的進度\n\n22\n00:07:47,273 --> 00:08:10,779\n事實上我也跟委員報告我現在目前就是說因為當然有許多公務的一個行程但是我也跟各地方縣市教育局所長有一些比較這個非紳士的一些座談大概我也希望說把這樣一個訊息很清楚的我了解啦部長我了解我也知道你也非常有心但是我想要知道我們什麼時候可以再來了解下一步你們的進度在哪裡啦對\n\n23\n00:08:13,393 --> 00:08:34,109\n可不可以給我們一個大概的時間我想五月底之前五月底之前好謝謝那再來下一個這個我先跳過我先來提這個問題我們聽一下這個小朋友在學校講台遇到的狀況是什麼聲音好像沒有出來喔可以暫停一下時間可以暫停一下嗎等一下時間暫停一下好不好待會還你\n\n24\n00:08:35,768 --> 00:08:35,908\n謝謝主席\n\n25\n00:08:58,648 --> 00:09:16,483\n他想要用台語報告的時候老師要求他講國語那這個其實前面還有一段是他在講台語的時候老師就說那是你回去跟你媽媽講的語言我聽不懂這是這個小孩遇到的狀況所以我想要問一下就是說為什麼這個老師可以直接拒絕孩子的這樣子的需求呢\n\n26\n00:09:18,425 --> 00:09:41,435\n因為其實我自己在做兒童人權的這個工作十年嘛通常這個現場我們應該是可以跟孩子講說如果是這個地方真的是希望顧及到其他小孩可能聽不懂台語的話我們應該可以用更好的方式來跟孩子做表達讓他了解老師現在要照顧到其他學生的困境才對而不是用這樣子的方式去跟小孩講這是你回家跟媽媽講的語言啊你就是要講\n\n27\n00:09:42,574 --> 00:09:43,996\n對教育現場老師我們一直期待也辦了許多的徵人老師的一個對\n\n28\n00:10:00,029 --> 00:10:28,678\n本土語言國家語言上的一些基本的一個態度我想這我們會來努力來改善好這部分我們希望政要需要部長然後再來就是說我們現在可以看到台語跟母語的人力其實是失之有在增加的啦但是我有點不太曉得這個我們現在的一個國家語言發展計畫我們的相關教育部的業務報告裡面到底我們的目標到底是什麼我在這裡面看不到我們的政策目標是什麼\n\n29\n00:10:30,274 --> 00:10:35,056\n雖然有在增加但是我們是要再增加更多嗎還是怎樣這看不出來這個部分我們可不可以請謝謝維恩這個老師的要求除了數量上沒有達到會讓大家很直觀的覺得好像沒有要認真推之外在教學還有相關的教師增能我以上做簡要的說明之後很細的跟你們報告也給我10秒第一個\n\n30\n00:10:58,667 --> 00:11:24,063\n原來我們只有兩萬一千名老師大家覺得總是找不到老師所以我們用時間大概用一年的時間增加了六千名所以現在是兩萬八千五百名那這樣的一個數量以我們現在評估是比較夠的這第一點第二點在課程教學如剛剛可能我們在推的時候有一些也不見得只有在那個課程才一節而已才夠所以希望能夠進潤式的不要只有那一節上\n\n31\n00:11:24,443 --> 00:11:41,037\n這個學校的生活作息內也能上這樣的一個實驗學校也已經超過了500校第三點類似課程教學教材目前的教材怕太過於生硬也希望它能夠生活化達到它能夠用了才能夠喜愛它學了才能夠用\n\n32\n00:11:41,497 --> 00:11:45,560\n沒關係蘇長我簡單講一下那我再花一點時間就是說我們覺得夠可是民間覺得不夠這到底怎樣叫做夠我覺得這是值得來討論的然後這也回應到就是說我們沉浸式教學的目標我們這個工作的目標到底是什麼因為我們必須要訂出一個清趣的目標我們才可以知道我們\n\n33\n00:11:58,471 --> 00:12:22,349\n民間大家也才會有一個共同一致性一起來努力然後一起來檢討嘛所以這個部分我們是不是會會約個時間來詳細討論好了好不好然後再來最後一題這個簡單來講一下就是說我們這個本土語言的精進培訓研習課程有團體跟我反映啦他們上禮拜去上課的時候呢不管你今天上哪一個語言喔台語課原住民語老師都是用華語來呈現\n\n34\n00:12:26,673 --> 00:12:30,175\n但是這個是一個本土語言課程怎麼會這樣委員我先報告一個細節如果說委員這邊有這個比較細的給我來追查了解一下我們跟中生司機來處理第二點本來就應該是用全那個語言來上會更\n\n35\n00:12:49,584 --> 00:13:03,232\n比較有實境的感覺以及未來教學運用上也比較靈活我們非常支持委員這個方向好那這個要我們就是我把這個資訊pass過去好不好我們接下來可能要仔細的看不然這是本土語言精進課程就全部用華語這實在是太荒謬了好不好\n\n36\n00:13:05,584 --> 00:13:25,106\n我講就是這個區塊我們怎麼樣落實這個本土語言的教學事實上也是我最近一直要我們相關的這個師處署簡單來講我們能不能像英文裡邊小學他從日常的生活裡邊然後我們小學\n\n37\n00:13:26,047 --> 00:13:51,708\n第一年級中年級高年級有一些目標的設定讓這些本土語言從生活自我介紹到學校介紹家族介紹社區裡邊能夠真正落實這一個本土語言的一個學習不僅是台語客語原住民語都是我們希望能夠微調讓他真正能夠結合生活能夠真正能夠落實這個國家語言的一個推動\n\n38\n00:13:52,148 --> 00:14:19,489\n我覺得部長我覺得你非常有心我也非常感謝你但是因為從106年開始沉浸式計畫到111年之後我就拿不到任何的資料了我在網路上面找不到相關的資料所以到底這個沉浸式語言的計畫執行成效是什麼坦白說我可能也需要教育部提供給我我們才有辦法進一步的來檢討到底這樣子的方向是不是正確有沒有需要做微調好不好到111年之後我就沒有看到任何的資料了所以這部分也請\n\n39\n00:14:20,389 --> 00:14:24,132\n那個再不提供給我那大概什麼時候可以提供給我呢兩天內兩天內好謝謝謝謝張雅玲\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8703\t9403\t有請部長 謝謝有請部長備質詢 謝謝委員好\n18604\t43095\t部長好 開始之前我想要先說一件事情剛剛柯志恩委員有講到中正大學這件事情說這件事情應該是無關轉型正義但是我必須跟部長做個說明在1986年在中正大學的中正大學校當時就是為了紀念獨裁者蔣中正而命名這個名字這在校史館上面寫得清清楚楚並且通過了行政院第2006次的院會決議\n46958\t61837\t然後呢我也必須再跟部長做個說明就是在促轉會裡面其實都有特別的去提到我們有一些相關的路名包含中正、介受、進國總共有355條都是要必須來做一個整體的處理就是要去威權化\n62478\t88557\t要去威權化所以呢我必須要做個希望就是說雖然我們現在是針對於建物我們有做一些相關的補助計畫但我認為接下來我們也要來處理相關的大學學校的命名所以我也呼籲我們的國民黨不要在這個時候還要再來扭曲事實然後為威權來插枝磨粉所以這一點是希望部長要清楚的了解這是我們應該要前進的方向\n89602\t118123\t好那接下來就回到我今天的這個質詢的題目就是說剛剛其實也有委員就是來質詢這件事情就是說有很多的學生呢他們現在在校園裡面也發起了一些連署那也被遇到了一些打壓那甚至我們的翁曉琳委員也是呼籲說這個應該要政治要這個大罷免連署禁錄校園這個基本上如果我們不管的話我們就是默不作聲這件事情我也想要來請跟部長來做一些討論\n120509\t147629\t就是說我們現在在教育基本法的第六條裡面是有講到教育應本中立的原則學校不得為特定政治團體從事宣傳或活動主管機關行政機關及學校亦不得強迫學校行政人員教師及學生參與任何的政治活動喔那我想問一下就是說當 抱歉喔我們再看一下這一張就是當時其實我去查了一下我們的立法院第三屆第四期的文書在\n149010\t168961\t86年9月25號一讀的行政院文書是這樣子寫的它是寫說這一條呢這一條是要來確保教育專業自主及正常發展避免政治不當干預當時的一個背景是這樣這最主要是因為當時的國民黨透過了這樣子的方式去做很多的干預\n170464\t186790\t所以我想請教一下部長目前也有看到這些學生嘛他們面臨到的一些爭議嘛對不對像是這個清華大學啦學生在人事院擺罷免連署站啊但是校方雖然沒有發現違規行為喔可是它援引了這個就是第六條\n187910\t215477\t禁止特定政治活動進入校園那同樣的事情政治大學、師範大學、北一大都有類似這樣子的一個關心那甚至台大的學生面臨了他被成大的副教授謾罵那但是我們也看到了中山大學做出了一個很不錯的榜樣這個校長是這樣說的只要不涉及侮辱、毀謗或歧視其實都是政治言論自由的一個表現\n217017\t236838\t所以我想 這邊我想要聽聽說那部長您的看法到底是什麼因為學生主張任何政治行為其實應該都要被尊重因為我們的憲法其實有保障參政權我們的這個兒童的權利公約裡面也有講說兒童可以有參與公共事務的權利這都已經國內法化了所以我想聽聽部長可不可以分享您的看法是什麼\n238126\t259954\t謝謝委員指導我想我完全同意剛才委員所提的因為這一個學校保持中立然後不給政黨因為是從學校的規範因為當時他確實希望政黨退出校園讓學校能夠恢復到一個自由的思潮然後能夠真正有一個更好的\n260454\t281852\t所以學校不會特定的政黨去做宣傳或者許多舉辦場地出租活動但是這是屬於學生的公民參與公共事務的關係包含他對自己的權益這都是屬於言論自由的一個層次\n284074\t307094\t剛才就像這個中山大學這個李校長講不要涉及侮辱毀謗歧視甚至我在談有許多的活動要考慮不會影響到公共安全這些的等等的一個考量所以部長您的看法應該是支持學生可以來自由的表達自己的一些政治的想法那是一個公民素養學習好 那我想請教一下部長如果接下來我們又發生這樣子的事情的話我們應該如何來協助學生呢\n310157\t317768\t我想教育部已經三審五令而且先前也發了兩次的一個公文針對這次的事件嗎還是以前先前先前那我們是不是可以再提醒一下我想我們可以教育部來主動來\n327501\t342985\t我希望部長可以主動來發出這個公文提醒大家一下好不好因為這不是只有一間學校是一間兩間三間學校都發生這樣子的事情了我們必須要把這件事情講清楚啦好不好那再來還有就是說我們之前也有發生桃園的小學它這個校長呢在自己的臉\n343365\t358519\t在自己的抖音上面寫他的IP中國台灣他也發了一個我愛你中國那其實剛剛也有相關的委員去提到這件事情那我就想要請教部長就是說我們到底要如何的去加強教職員的國安意識要如何的去強化教職\n359560\t382025\t教職員對國家的效忠剛剛部長您提的是說我們會請公民課、社會課的老師增加一些嗜讀的教育來協助我們的孩子了解國際的威脅可是我們現在的問題是發生在教職員所以這個部分的話我們到底有沒有可以比照我們這個軍人對公立學校的校長、教師等\n383086\t390260\t公務人員建立明確的效忠國家的規範與法律責任以防止教育體系被滲透\n392116\t418405\t想在教育人員或者老師裡邊他本來就有受學校的規範我剛才也特別跟委員報告過這個教育基本法裡邊他的教育目的你的今天扮演老師就是要服從我們教育基本法第二條你要怎麼樣去培養可是現在學生現在是校長已經公然了甚至我也有收到學校老師當教育人員違反他應該恪守的一些法律那這個部分我想我們會\n419827\t442299\t本來在聘書裡面他就要依法同意我們都要簽嘛但是問題是事實上就是做了嘛那做了到底該怎麼辦嘛那這一個部分我想我們會在跟地方政府裡面來協調這一個希望能夠有更明確的一些規範我想我們要有一個更明確的規範喔因為我真的有聽到有小學的有國中的老師教學生去看我們中國的央視來了解中國歷史\n443200\t461311\t我想這個部分我會從行政體系來提醒也希望能夠跟各地方縣市政府來合作對教育人員跟老師怎麼樣給予對國家認同裡邊有一個更積極的好 有個更清楚的規範好不好這個部分大概多久的時候可以有一些相關的進度呢因為說要跟地方政府討論嘛那大概是什麼時候我們可以再追後續的進度\n467273\t490779\t事實上我也跟委員報告我現在目前就是說因為當然有許多公務的一個行程但是我也跟各地方縣市教育局所長有一些比較這個非紳士的一些座談大概我也希望說把這樣一個訊息很清楚的我了解啦部長我了解我也知道你也非常有心但是我想要知道我們什麼時候可以再來了解下一步你們的進度在哪裡啦對\n493393\t514109\t可不可以給我們一個大概的時間我想五月底之前五月底之前 好 謝謝那再來下一個 這個我先跳過我先來提這個問題我們聽一下這個小朋友在學校講台遇到的狀況是什麼聲音好像沒有出來喔可以暫停一下 時間可以暫停一下嗎等一下 時間暫停一下好不好待會還你\n515768\t515908\t謝謝主席\n538648\t556483\t他想要用台語報告的時候老師要求他講國語那這個其實前面還有一段是他在講台語的時候老師就說那是你回去跟你媽媽講的語言我聽不懂這是這個小孩遇到的狀況所以我想要問一下就是說為什麼這個老師可以直接拒絕孩子的這樣子的需求呢\n558425\t581435\t因為其實我自己在做兒童人權的這個工作十年嘛通常這個現場我們應該是可以跟孩子講說如果是這個地方真的是希望顧及到其他小孩可能聽不懂台語的話我們應該可以用更好的方式來跟孩子做表達讓他了解老師現在要照顧到其他學生的困境才對而不是用這樣子的方式去跟小孩講這是你回家跟媽媽講的語言啊你就是要講\n582574\t583996\t對教育現場老師我們一直期待也辦了許多的徵人老師的一個對\n600029\t628678\t本土語言 國家語言上的一些基本的一個態度我想這我們會來努力來改善好 這部分我們希望政要需要部長然後再來就是說我們現在可以看到台語跟母語的人力其實是失之有在增加的啦但是我有點不太曉得這個我們現在的一個國家語言發展計畫我們的相關教育部的業務報告裡面到底我們的目標到底是什麼我在這裡面看不到我們的政策目標是什麼\n630274\t635056\t雖然有在增加但是我們是要再增加更多嗎還是怎樣這看不出來這個部分我們可不可以請謝謝維恩這個老師的要求除了數量上沒有達到會讓大家很直觀的覺得好像沒有要認真推之外在教學還有相關的教師增能我以上做簡要的說明之後很細的跟你們報告也給我10秒第一個\n658667\t684063\t原來我們只有兩萬一千名老師大家覺得總是找不到老師所以我們用時間大概用一年的時間增加了六千名所以現在是兩萬八千五百名那這樣的一個數量以我們現在評估是比較夠的這第一點第二點在課程教學如剛剛可能我們在推的時候有一些也不見得只有在那個課程才一節而已才夠所以希望能夠進潤式的不要只有那一節上\n684443\t701037\t這個學校的生活作息內也能上這樣的一個實驗學校也已經超過了500校第三點類似課程教學教材目前的教材怕太過於生硬也希望它能夠生活化達到它能夠用了才能夠喜愛它學了才能夠用\n701497\t705560\t沒關係 蘇長我簡單講一下那我再花一點時間就是說我們覺得夠可是民間覺得不夠這到底怎樣叫做夠我覺得這是值得來討論的然後這也回應到就是說我們沉浸式教學的目標我們這個工作的目標到底是什麼因為我們必須要訂出一個清趣的目標我們才可以知道我們\n718471\t742349\t民間大家也才會有一個共同一致性一起來努力然後一起來檢討嘛所以這個部分我們是不是會會約個時間來詳細討論好了好不好然後再來最後一題這個簡單來講一下就是說我們這個本土語言的精進培訓研習課程有團體跟我反映啦他們上禮拜去上課的時候呢不管你今天上哪一個語言喔台語課原住民語老師都是用華語來呈現\n746673\t750175\t但是這個是一個本土語言課程怎麼會這樣委員我先報告一個細節如果說委員這邊有這個比較細的給我來追查了解一下我們跟中生司機來處理第二點本來就應該是用全那個語言來上會更\n769584\t783232\t比較有實境的感覺以及未來教學運用上也比較靈活我們非常支持委員這個方向好那這個要我們就是我把這個資訊pass過去好不好我們接下來可能要仔細的看不然這是本土語言精進課程就全部用華語這實在是太荒謬了好不好\n785584\t805106\t我講就是這個區塊我們怎麼樣落實這個本土語言的教學事實上也是我最近一直要我們相關的這個師處署簡單來講我們能不能像英文裡邊小學他從日常的生活裡邊然後我們小學\n806047\t831708\t第一年級中年級高年級有一些目標的設定讓這些本土語言從生活自我介紹到學校介紹家族介紹社區裡邊能夠真正落實這一個本土語言的一個學習不僅是台語客語原住民語都是我們希望能夠微調讓他真正能夠結合生活能夠真正能夠落實這個國家語言的一個推動\n832148\t859489\t我覺得部長我覺得你非常有心我也非常感謝你但是因為從106年開始沉浸式計畫到111年之後我就拿不到任何的資料了我在網路上面找不到相關的資料所以到底這個沉浸式語言的計畫執行成效是什麼坦白說我可能也需要教育部提供給我我們才有辦法進一步的來檢討到底這樣子的方向是不是正確有沒有需要做微調好不好到111年之後我就沒有看到任何的資料了所以這部分也請\n860389\t864132\t那個再不提供給我那大概什麼時候可以提供給我呢兩天內兩天內好 謝謝謝謝張雅玲\n","txt":"有請部長 謝謝有請部長備質詢 謝謝委員好\n部長好 開始之前我想要先說一件事情剛剛柯志恩委員有講到中正大學這件事情說這件事情應該是無關轉型正義但是我必須跟部長做個說明在1986年在中正大學的中正大學校當時就是為了紀念獨裁者蔣中正而命名這個名字這在校史館上面寫得清清楚楚並且通過了行政院第2006次的院會決議\n然後呢我也必須再跟部長做個說明就是在促轉會裡面其實都有特別的去提到我們有一些相關的路名包含中正、介受、進國總共有355條都是要必須來做一個整體的處理就是要去威權化\n要去威權化所以呢我必須要做個希望就是說雖然我們現在是針對於建物我們有做一些相關的補助計畫但我認為接下來我們也要來處理相關的大學學校的命名所以我也呼籲我們的國民黨不要在這個時候還要再來扭曲事實然後為威權來插枝磨粉所以這一點是希望部長要清楚的了解這是我們應該要前進的方向\n好那接下來就回到我今天的這個質詢的題目就是說剛剛其實也有委員就是來質詢這件事情就是說有很多的學生呢他們現在在校園裡面也發起了一些連署那也被遇到了一些打壓那甚至我們的翁曉琳委員也是呼籲說這個應該要政治要這個大罷免連署禁錄校園這個基本上如果我們不管的話我們就是默不作聲這件事情我也想要來請跟部長來做一些討論\n就是說我們現在在教育基本法的第六條裡面是有講到教育應本中立的原則學校不得為特定政治團體從事宣傳或活動主管機關行政機關及學校亦不得強迫學校行政人員教師及學生參與任何的政治活動喔那我想問一下就是說當 抱歉喔我們再看一下這一張就是當時其實我去查了一下我們的立法院第三屆第四期的文書在\n86年9月25號一讀的行政院文書是這樣子寫的它是寫說這一條呢這一條是要來確保教育專業自主及正常發展避免政治不當干預當時的一個背景是這樣這最主要是因為當時的國民黨透過了這樣子的方式去做很多的干預\n所以我想請教一下部長目前也有看到這些學生嘛他們面臨到的一些爭議嘛對不對像是這個清華大學啦學生在人事院擺罷免連署站啊但是校方雖然沒有發現違規行為喔可是它援引了這個就是第六條\n禁止特定政治活動進入校園那同樣的事情政治大學、師範大學、北一大都有類似這樣子的一個關心那甚至台大的學生面臨了他被成大的副教授謾罵那但是我們也看到了中山大學做出了一個很不錯的榜樣這個校長是這樣說的只要不涉及侮辱、毀謗或歧視其實都是政治言論自由的一個表現\n所以我想 這邊我想要聽聽說那部長您的看法到底是什麼因為學生主張任何政治行為其實應該都要被尊重因為我們的憲法其實有保障參政權我們的這個兒童的權利公約裡面也有講說兒童可以有參與公共事務的權利這都已經國內法化了所以我想聽聽部長可不可以分享您的看法是什麼\n謝謝委員指導我想我完全同意剛才委員所提的因為這一個學校保持中立然後不給政黨因為是從學校的規範因為當時他確實希望政黨退出校園讓學校能夠恢復到一個自由的思潮然後能夠真正有一個更好的\n所以學校不會特定的政黨去做宣傳或者許多舉辦場地出租活動但是這是屬於學生的公民參與公共事務的關係包含他對自己的權益這都是屬於言論自由的一個層次\n剛才就像這個中山大學這個李校長講不要涉及侮辱毀謗歧視甚至我在談有許多的活動要考慮不會影響到公共安全這些的等等的一個考量所以部長您的看法應該是支持學生可以來自由的表達自己的一些政治的想法那是一個公民素養學習好 那我想請教一下部長如果接下來我們又發生這樣子的事情的話我們應該如何來協助學生呢\n我想教育部已經三審五令而且先前也發了兩次的一個公文針對這次的事件嗎還是以前先前先前那我們是不是可以再提醒一下我想我們可以教育部來主動來\n我希望部長可以主動來發出這個公文提醒大家一下好不好因為這不是只有一間學校是一間兩間三間學校都發生這樣子的事情了我們必須要把這件事情講清楚啦好不好那再來還有就是說我們之前也有發生桃園的小學它這個校長呢在自己的臉\n在自己的抖音上面寫他的IP中國台灣他也發了一個我愛你中國那其實剛剛也有相關的委員去提到這件事情那我就想要請教部長就是說我們到底要如何的去加強教職員的國安意識要如何的去強化教職\n教職員對國家的效忠剛剛部長您提的是說我們會請公民課、社會課的老師增加一些嗜讀的教育來協助我們的孩子了解國際的威脅可是我們現在的問題是發生在教職員所以這個部分的話我們到底有沒有可以比照我們這個軍人對公立學校的校長、教師等\n公務人員建立明確的效忠國家的規範與法律責任以防止教育體系被滲透\n想在教育人員或者老師裡邊他本來就有受學校的規範我剛才也特別跟委員報告過這個教育基本法裡邊他的教育目的你的今天扮演老師就是要服從我們教育基本法第二條你要怎麼樣去培養可是現在學生現在是校長已經公然了甚至我也有收到學校老師當教育人員違反他應該恪守的一些法律那這個部分我想我們會\n本來在聘書裡面他就要依法同意我們都要簽嘛但是問題是事實上就是做了嘛那做了到底該怎麼辦嘛那這一個部分我想我們會在跟地方政府裡面來協調這一個希望能夠有更明確的一些規範我想我們要有一個更明確的規範喔因為我真的有聽到有小學的有國中的老師教學生去看我們中國的央視來了解中國歷史\n我想這個部分我會從行政體系來提醒也希望能夠跟各地方縣市政府來合作對教育人員跟老師怎麼樣給予對國家認同裡邊有一個更積極的好 有個更清楚的規範好不好這個部分大概多久的時候可以有一些相關的進度呢因為說要跟地方政府討論嘛那大概是什麼時候我們可以再追後續的進度\n事實上我也跟委員報告我現在目前就是說因為當然有許多公務的一個行程但是我也跟各地方縣市教育局所長有一些比較這個非紳士的一些座談大概我也希望說把這樣一個訊息很清楚的我了解啦部長我了解我也知道你也非常有心但是我想要知道我們什麼時候可以再來了解下一步你們的進度在哪裡啦對\n可不可以給我們一個大概的時間我想五月底之前五月底之前 好 謝謝那再來下一個 這個我先跳過我先來提這個問題我們聽一下這個小朋友在學校講台遇到的狀況是什麼聲音好像沒有出來喔可以暫停一下 時間可以暫停一下嗎等一下 時間暫停一下好不好待會還你\n謝謝主席\n他想要用台語報告的時候老師要求他講國語那這個其實前面還有一段是他在講台語的時候老師就說那是你回去跟你媽媽講的語言我聽不懂這是這個小孩遇到的狀況所以我想要問一下就是說為什麼這個老師可以直接拒絕孩子的這樣子的需求呢\n因為其實我自己在做兒童人權的這個工作十年嘛通常這個現場我們應該是可以跟孩子講說如果是這個地方真的是希望顧及到其他小孩可能聽不懂台語的話我們應該可以用更好的方式來跟孩子做表達讓他了解老師現在要照顧到其他學生的困境才對而不是用這樣子的方式去跟小孩講這是你回家跟媽媽講的語言啊你就是要講\n對教育現場老師我們一直期待也辦了許多的徵人老師的一個對\n本土語言 國家語言上的一些基本的一個態度我想這我們會來努力來改善好 這部分我們希望政要需要部長然後再來就是說我們現在可以看到台語跟母語的人力其實是失之有在增加的啦但是我有點不太曉得這個我們現在的一個國家語言發展計畫我們的相關教育部的業務報告裡面到底我們的目標到底是什麼我在這裡面看不到我們的政策目標是什麼\n雖然有在增加但是我們是要再增加更多嗎還是怎樣這看不出來這個部分我們可不可以請謝謝維恩這個老師的要求除了數量上沒有達到會讓大家很直觀的覺得好像沒有要認真推之外在教學還有相關的教師增能我以上做簡要的說明之後很細的跟你們報告也給我10秒第一個\n原來我們只有兩萬一千名老師大家覺得總是找不到老師所以我們用時間大概用一年的時間增加了六千名所以現在是兩萬八千五百名那這樣的一個數量以我們現在評估是比較夠的這第一點第二點在課程教學如剛剛可能我們在推的時候有一些也不見得只有在那個課程才一節而已才夠所以希望能夠進潤式的不要只有那一節上\n這個學校的生活作息內也能上這樣的一個實驗學校也已經超過了500校第三點類似課程教學教材目前的教材怕太過於生硬也希望它能夠生活化達到它能夠用了才能夠喜愛它學了才能夠用\n沒關係 蘇長我簡單講一下那我再花一點時間就是說我們覺得夠可是民間覺得不夠這到底怎樣叫做夠我覺得這是值得來討論的然後這也回應到就是說我們沉浸式教學的目標我們這個工作的目標到底是什麼因為我們必須要訂出一個清趣的目標我們才可以知道我們\n民間大家也才會有一個共同一致性一起來努力然後一起來檢討嘛所以這個部分我們是不是會會約個時間來詳細討論好了好不好然後再來最後一題這個簡單來講一下就是說我們這個本土語言的精進培訓研習課程有團體跟我反映啦他們上禮拜去上課的時候呢不管你今天上哪一個語言喔台語課原住民語老師都是用華語來呈現\n但是這個是一個本土語言課程怎麼會這樣委員我先報告一個細節如果說委員這邊有這個比較細的給我來追查了解一下我們跟中生司機來處理第二點本來就應該是用全那個語言來上會更\n比較有實境的感覺以及未來教學運用上也比較靈活我們非常支持委員這個方向好那這個要我們就是我把這個資訊pass過去好不好我們接下來可能要仔細的看不然這是本土語言精進課程就全部用華語這實在是太荒謬了好不好\n我講就是這個區塊我們怎麼樣落實這個本土語言的教學事實上也是我最近一直要我們相關的這個師處署簡單來講我們能不能像英文裡邊小學他從日常的生活裡邊然後我們小學\n第一年級中年級高年級有一些目標的設定讓這些本土語言從生活自我介紹到學校介紹家族介紹社區裡邊能夠真正落實這一個本土語言的一個學習不僅是台語客語原住民語都是我們希望能夠微調讓他真正能夠結合生活能夠真正能夠落實這個國家語言的一個推動\n我覺得部長我覺得你非常有心我也非常感謝你但是因為從106年開始沉浸式計畫到111年之後我就拿不到任何的資料了我在網路上面找不到相關的資料所以到底這個沉浸式語言的計畫執行成效是什麼坦白說我可能也需要教育部提供給我我們才有辦法進一步的來檢討到底這樣子的方向是不是正確有沒有需要做微調好不好到111年之後我就沒有看到任何的資料了所以這部分也請\n那個再不提供給我那大概什麼時候可以提供給我呢兩天內兩天內好 謝謝謝謝張雅玲\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.703 --> 00:09.403\n有請部長謝謝有請部長備質詢謝謝委員好\n\n00:18.604 --> 00:43.095\n部長好開始之前我想要先說一件事情剛剛柯志恩委員有講到中正大學這件事情說這件事情應該是無關轉型正義但是我必須跟部長做個說明在1986年在中正大學的中正大學校當時就是為了紀念獨裁者蔣中正而命名這個名字這在校史館上面寫得清清楚楚並且通過了行政院第2006次的院會決議\n\n00:46.958 --> 01:01.837\n然後呢我也必須再跟部長做個說明就是在促轉會裡面其實都有特別的去提到我們有一些相關的路名包含中正、介受、進國總共有355條都是要必須來做一個整體的處理就是要去威權化\n\n01:02.478 --> 01:28.557\n要去威權化所以呢我必須要做個希望就是說雖然我們現在是針對於建物我們有做一些相關的補助計畫但我認為接下來我們也要來處理相關的大學學校的命名所以我也呼籲我們的國民黨不要在這個時候還要再來扭曲事實然後為威權來插枝磨粉所以這一點是希望部長要清楚的了解這是我們應該要前進的方向\n\n01:29.602 --> 01:58.123\n好那接下來就回到我今天的這個質詢的題目就是說剛剛其實也有委員就是來質詢這件事情就是說有很多的學生呢他們現在在校園裡面也發起了一些連署那也被遇到了一些打壓那甚至我們的翁曉琳委員也是呼籲說這個應該要政治要這個大罷免連署禁錄校園這個基本上如果我們不管的話我們就是默不作聲這件事情我也想要來請跟部長來做一些討論\n\n02:00.509 --> 02:27.629\n就是說我們現在在教育基本法的第六條裡面是有講到教育應本中立的原則學校不得為特定政治團體從事宣傳或活動主管機關行政機關及學校亦不得強迫學校行政人員教師及學生參與任何的政治活動喔那我想問一下就是說當抱歉喔我們再看一下這一張就是當時其實我去查了一下我們的立法院第三屆第四期的文書在\n\n02:29.010 --> 02:48.961\n86年9月25號一讀的行政院文書是這樣子寫的它是寫說這一條呢這一條是要來確保教育專業自主及正常發展避免政治不當干預當時的一個背景是這樣這最主要是因為當時的國民黨透過了這樣子的方式去做很多的干預\n\n02:50.464 --> 03:06.790\n所以我想請教一下部長目前也有看到這些學生嘛他們面臨到的一些爭議嘛對不對像是這個清華大學啦學生在人事院擺罷免連署站啊但是校方雖然沒有發現違規行為喔可是它援引了這個就是第六條\n\n03:07.910 --> 03:35.477\n禁止特定政治活動進入校園那同樣的事情政治大學、師範大學、北一大都有類似這樣子的一個關心那甚至台大的學生面臨了他被成大的副教授謾罵那但是我們也看到了中山大學做出了一個很不錯的榜樣這個校長是這樣說的只要不涉及侮辱、毀謗或歧視其實都是政治言論自由的一個表現\n\n03:37.017 --> 03:56.838\n所以我想這邊我想要聽聽說那部長您的看法到底是什麼因為學生主張任何政治行為其實應該都要被尊重因為我們的憲法其實有保障參政權我們的這個兒童的權利公約裡面也有講說兒童可以有參與公共事務的權利這都已經國內法化了所以我想聽聽部長可不可以分享您的看法是什麼\n\n03:58.126 --> 04:19.954\n謝謝委員指導我想我完全同意剛才委員所提的因為這一個學校保持中立然後不給政黨因為是從學校的規範因為當時他確實希望政黨退出校園讓學校能夠恢復到一個自由的思潮然後能夠真正有一個更好的\n\n04:20.454 --> 04:41.852\n所以學校不會特定的政黨去做宣傳或者許多舉辦場地出租活動但是這是屬於學生的公民參與公共事務的關係包含他對自己的權益這都是屬於言論自由的一個層次\n\n04:44.074 --> 05:07.094\n剛才就像這個中山大學這個李校長講不要涉及侮辱毀謗歧視甚至我在談有許多的活動要考慮不會影響到公共安全這些的等等的一個考量所以部長您的看法應該是支持學生可以來自由的表達自己的一些政治的想法那是一個公民素養學習好那我想請教一下部長如果接下來我們又發生這樣子的事情的話我們應該如何來協助學生呢\n\n05:10.157 --> 05:17.768\n我想教育部已經三審五令而且先前也發了兩次的一個公文針對這次的事件嗎還是以前先前先前那我們是不是可以再提醒一下我想我們可以教育部來主動來\n\n05:27.501 --> 05:42.985\n我希望部長可以主動來發出這個公文提醒大家一下好不好因為這不是只有一間學校是一間兩間三間學校都發生這樣子的事情了我們必須要把這件事情講清楚啦好不好那再來還有就是說我們之前也有發生桃園的小學它這個校長呢在自己的臉\n\n05:43.365 --> 05:58.519\n在自己的抖音上面寫他的IP中國台灣他也發了一個我愛你中國那其實剛剛也有相關的委員去提到這件事情那我就想要請教部長就是說我們到底要如何的去加強教職員的國安意識要如何的去強化教職\n\n05:59.560 --> 06:22.025\n教職員對國家的效忠剛剛部長您提的是說我們會請公民課、社會課的老師增加一些嗜讀的教育來協助我們的孩子了解國際的威脅可是我們現在的問題是發生在教職員所以這個部分的話我們到底有沒有可以比照我們這個軍人對公立學校的校長、教師等\n\n06:23.086 --> 06:30.260\n公務人員建立明確的效忠國家的規範與法律責任以防止教育體系被滲透\n\n06:32.116 --> 06:58.405\n想在教育人員或者老師裡邊他本來就有受學校的規範我剛才也特別跟委員報告過這個教育基本法裡邊他的教育目的你的今天扮演老師就是要服從我們教育基本法第二條你要怎麼樣去培養可是現在學生現在是校長已經公然了甚至我也有收到學校老師當教育人員違反他應該恪守的一些法律那這個部分我想我們會\n\n06:59.827 --> 07:22.299\n本來在聘書裡面他就要依法同意我們都要簽嘛但是問題是事實上就是做了嘛那做了到底該怎麼辦嘛那這一個部分我想我們會在跟地方政府裡面來協調這一個希望能夠有更明確的一些規範我想我們要有一個更明確的規範喔因為我真的有聽到有小學的有國中的老師教學生去看我們中國的央視來了解中國歷史\n\n07:23.200 --> 07:41.311\n我想這個部分我會從行政體系來提醒也希望能夠跟各地方縣市政府來合作對教育人員跟老師怎麼樣給予對國家認同裡邊有一個更積極的好有個更清楚的規範好不好這個部分大概多久的時候可以有一些相關的進度呢因為說要跟地方政府討論嘛那大概是什麼時候我們可以再追後續的進度\n\n07:47.273 --> 08:10.779\n事實上我也跟委員報告我現在目前就是說因為當然有許多公務的一個行程但是我也跟各地方縣市教育局所長有一些比較這個非紳士的一些座談大概我也希望說把這樣一個訊息很清楚的我了解啦部長我了解我也知道你也非常有心但是我想要知道我們什麼時候可以再來了解下一步你們的進度在哪裡啦對\n\n08:13.393 --> 08:34.109\n可不可以給我們一個大概的時間我想五月底之前五月底之前好謝謝那再來下一個這個我先跳過我先來提這個問題我們聽一下這個小朋友在學校講台遇到的狀況是什麼聲音好像沒有出來喔可以暫停一下時間可以暫停一下嗎等一下時間暫停一下好不好待會還你\n\n08:35.768 --> 08:35.908\n謝謝主席\n\n08:58.648 --> 09:16.483\n他想要用台語報告的時候老師要求他講國語那這個其實前面還有一段是他在講台語的時候老師就說那是你回去跟你媽媽講的語言我聽不懂這是這個小孩遇到的狀況所以我想要問一下就是說為什麼這個老師可以直接拒絕孩子的這樣子的需求呢\n\n09:18.425 --> 09:41.435\n因為其實我自己在做兒童人權的這個工作十年嘛通常這個現場我們應該是可以跟孩子講說如果是這個地方真的是希望顧及到其他小孩可能聽不懂台語的話我們應該可以用更好的方式來跟孩子做表達讓他了解老師現在要照顧到其他學生的困境才對而不是用這樣子的方式去跟小孩講這是你回家跟媽媽講的語言啊你就是要講\n\n09:42.574 --> 09:43.996\n對教育現場老師我們一直期待也辦了許多的徵人老師的一個對\n\n10:00.029 --> 10:28.678\n本土語言國家語言上的一些基本的一個態度我想這我們會來努力來改善好這部分我們希望政要需要部長然後再來就是說我們現在可以看到台語跟母語的人力其實是失之有在增加的啦但是我有點不太曉得這個我們現在的一個國家語言發展計畫我們的相關教育部的業務報告裡面到底我們的目標到底是什麼我在這裡面看不到我們的政策目標是什麼\n\n10:30.274 --> 10:35.056\n雖然有在增加但是我們是要再增加更多嗎還是怎樣這看不出來這個部分我們可不可以請謝謝維恩這個老師的要求除了數量上沒有達到會讓大家很直觀的覺得好像沒有要認真推之外在教學還有相關的教師增能我以上做簡要的說明之後很細的跟你們報告也給我10秒第一個\n\n10:58.667 --> 11:24.063\n原來我們只有兩萬一千名老師大家覺得總是找不到老師所以我們用時間大概用一年的時間增加了六千名所以現在是兩萬八千五百名那這樣的一個數量以我們現在評估是比較夠的這第一點第二點在課程教學如剛剛可能我們在推的時候有一些也不見得只有在那個課程才一節而已才夠所以希望能夠進潤式的不要只有那一節上\n\n11:24.443 --> 11:41.037\n這個學校的生活作息內也能上這樣的一個實驗學校也已經超過了500校第三點類似課程教學教材目前的教材怕太過於生硬也希望它能夠生活化達到它能夠用了才能夠喜愛它學了才能夠用\n\n11:41.497 --> 11:45.560\n沒關係蘇長我簡單講一下那我再花一點時間就是說我們覺得夠可是民間覺得不夠這到底怎樣叫做夠我覺得這是值得來討論的然後這也回應到就是說我們沉浸式教學的目標我們這個工作的目標到底是什麼因為我們必須要訂出一個清趣的目標我們才可以知道我們\n\n11:58.471 --> 12:22.349\n民間大家也才會有一個共同一致性一起來努力然後一起來檢討嘛所以這個部分我們是不是會會約個時間來詳細討論好了好不好然後再來最後一題這個簡單來講一下就是說我們這個本土語言的精進培訓研習課程有團體跟我反映啦他們上禮拜去上課的時候呢不管你今天上哪一個語言喔台語課原住民語老師都是用華語來呈現\n\n12:26.673 --> 12:30.175\n但是這個是一個本土語言課程怎麼會這樣委員我先報告一個細節如果說委員這邊有這個比較細的給我來追查了解一下我們跟中生司機來處理第二點本來就應該是用全那個語言來上會更\n\n12:49.584 --> 13:03.232\n比較有實境的感覺以及未來教學運用上也比較靈活我們非常支持委員這個方向好那這個要我們就是我把這個資訊pass過去好不好我們接下來可能要仔細的看不然這是本土語言精進課程就全部用華語這實在是太荒謬了好不好\n\n13:05.584 --> 13:25.106\n我講就是這個區塊我們怎麼樣落實這個本土語言的教學事實上也是我最近一直要我們相關的這個師處署簡單來講我們能不能像英文裡邊小學他從日常的生活裡邊然後我們小學\n\n13:26.047 --> 13:51.708\n第一年級中年級高年級有一些目標的設定讓這些本土語言從生活自我介紹到學校介紹家族介紹社區裡邊能夠真正落實這一個本土語言的一個學習不僅是台語客語原住民語都是我們希望能夠微調讓他真正能夠結合生活能夠真正能夠落實這個國家語言的一個推動\n\n13:52.148 --> 14:19.489\n我覺得部長我覺得你非常有心我也非常感謝你但是因為從106年開始沉浸式計畫到111年之後我就拿不到任何的資料了我在網路上面找不到相關的資料所以到底這個沉浸式語言的計畫執行成效是什麼坦白說我可能也需要教育部提供給我我們才有辦法進一步的來檢討到底這樣子的方向是不是正確有沒有需要做微調好不好到111年之後我就沒有看到任何的資料了所以這部分也請\n\n14:20.389 --> 14:24.132\n那個再不提供給我那大概什麼時候可以提供給我呢兩天內兩天內好謝謝謝謝張雅玲\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.703,"end":9.403,"text":"有請部長 謝謝有請部長備質詢 謝謝委員好"},{"start":18.604,"end":43.095,"text":"部長好 開始之前我想要先說一件事情剛剛柯志恩委員有講到中正大學這件事情說這件事情應該是無關轉型正義但是我必須跟部長做個說明在1986年在中正大學的中正大學校當時就是為了紀念獨裁者蔣中正而命名這個名字這在校史館上面寫得清清楚楚並且通過了行政院第2006次的院會決議"},{"start":46.958,"end":61.837,"text":"然後呢我也必須再跟部長做個說明就是在促轉會裡面其實都有特別的去提到我們有一些相關的路名包含中正、介受、進國總共有355條都是要必須來做一個整體的處理就是要去威權化"},{"start":62.478,"end":88.557,"text":"要去威權化所以呢我必須要做個希望就是說雖然我們現在是針對於建物我們有做一些相關的補助計畫但我認為接下來我們也要來處理相關的大學學校的命名所以我也呼籲我們的國民黨不要在這個時候還要再來扭曲事實然後為威權來插枝磨粉所以這一點是希望部長要清楚的了解這是我們應該要前進的方向"},{"start":89.602,"end":118.123,"text":"好那接下來就回到我今天的這個質詢的題目就是說剛剛其實也有委員就是來質詢這件事情就是說有很多的學生呢他們現在在校園裡面也發起了一些連署那也被遇到了一些打壓那甚至我們的翁曉琳委員也是呼籲說這個應該要政治要這個大罷免連署禁錄校園這個基本上如果我們不管的話我們就是默不作聲這件事情我也想要來請跟部長來做一些討論"},{"start":120.509,"end":147.629,"text":"就是說我們現在在教育基本法的第六條裡面是有講到教育應本中立的原則學校不得為特定政治團體從事宣傳或活動主管機關行政機關及學校亦不得強迫學校行政人員教師及學生參與任何的政治活動喔那我想問一下就是說當 抱歉喔我們再看一下這一張就是當時其實我去查了一下我們的立法院第三屆第四期的文書在"},{"start":149.01,"end":168.961,"text":"86年9月25號一讀的行政院文書是這樣子寫的它是寫說這一條呢這一條是要來確保教育專業自主及正常發展避免政治不當干預當時的一個背景是這樣這最主要是因為當時的國民黨透過了這樣子的方式去做很多的干預"},{"start":170.464,"end":186.79,"text":"所以我想請教一下部長目前也有看到這些學生嘛他們面臨到的一些爭議嘛對不對像是這個清華大學啦學生在人事院擺罷免連署站啊但是校方雖然沒有發現違規行為喔可是它援引了這個就是第六條"},{"start":187.91,"end":215.477,"text":"禁止特定政治活動進入校園那同樣的事情政治大學、師範大學、北一大都有類似這樣子的一個關心那甚至台大的學生面臨了他被成大的副教授謾罵那但是我們也看到了中山大學做出了一個很不錯的榜樣這個校長是這樣說的只要不涉及侮辱、毀謗或歧視其實都是政治言論自由的一個表現"},{"start":217.017,"end":236.838,"text":"所以我想 這邊我想要聽聽說那部長您的看法到底是什麼因為學生主張任何政治行為其實應該都要被尊重因為我們的憲法其實有保障參政權我們的這個兒童的權利公約裡面也有講說兒童可以有參與公共事務的權利這都已經國內法化了所以我想聽聽部長可不可以分享您的看法是什麼"},{"start":238.126,"end":259.954,"text":"謝謝委員指導我想我完全同意剛才委員所提的因為這一個學校保持中立然後不給政黨因為是從學校的規範因為當時他確實希望政黨退出校園讓學校能夠恢復到一個自由的思潮然後能夠真正有一個更好的"},{"start":260.454,"end":281.852,"text":"所以學校不會特定的政黨去做宣傳或者許多舉辦場地出租活動但是這是屬於學生的公民參與公共事務的關係包含他對自己的權益這都是屬於言論自由的一個層次"},{"start":284.074,"end":307.094,"text":"剛才就像這個中山大學這個李校長講不要涉及侮辱毀謗歧視甚至我在談有許多的活動要考慮不會影響到公共安全這些的等等的一個考量所以部長您的看法應該是支持學生可以來自由的表達自己的一些政治的想法那是一個公民素養學習好 那我想請教一下部長如果接下來我們又發生這樣子的事情的話我們應該如何來協助學生呢"},{"start":310.157,"end":317.768,"text":"我想教育部已經三審五令而且先前也發了兩次的一個公文針對這次的事件嗎還是以前先前先前那我們是不是可以再提醒一下我想我們可以教育部來主動來"},{"start":327.501,"end":342.985,"text":"我希望部長可以主動來發出這個公文提醒大家一下好不好因為這不是只有一間學校是一間兩間三間學校都發生這樣子的事情了我們必須要把這件事情講清楚啦好不好那再來還有就是說我們之前也有發生桃園的小學它這個校長呢在自己的臉"},{"start":343.365,"end":358.519,"text":"在自己的抖音上面寫他的IP中國台灣他也發了一個我愛你中國那其實剛剛也有相關的委員去提到這件事情那我就想要請教部長就是說我們到底要如何的去加強教職員的國安意識要如何的去強化教職"},{"start":359.56,"end":382.025,"text":"教職員對國家的效忠剛剛部長您提的是說我們會請公民課、社會課的老師增加一些嗜讀的教育來協助我們的孩子了解國際的威脅可是我們現在的問題是發生在教職員所以這個部分的話我們到底有沒有可以比照我們這個軍人對公立學校的校長、教師等"},{"start":383.086,"end":390.26,"text":"公務人員建立明確的效忠國家的規範與法律責任以防止教育體系被滲透"},{"start":392.116,"end":418.405,"text":"想在教育人員或者老師裡邊他本來就有受學校的規範我剛才也特別跟委員報告過這個教育基本法裡邊他的教育目的你的今天扮演老師就是要服從我們教育基本法第二條你要怎麼樣去培養可是現在學生現在是校長已經公然了甚至我也有收到學校老師當教育人員違反他應該恪守的一些法律那這個部分我想我們會"},{"start":419.827,"end":442.299,"text":"本來在聘書裡面他就要依法同意我們都要簽嘛但是問題是事實上就是做了嘛那做了到底該怎麼辦嘛那這一個部分我想我們會在跟地方政府裡面來協調這一個希望能夠有更明確的一些規範我想我們要有一個更明確的規範喔因為我真的有聽到有小學的有國中的老師教學生去看我們中國的央視來了解中國歷史"},{"start":443.2,"end":461.311,"text":"我想這個部分我會從行政體系來提醒也希望能夠跟各地方縣市政府來合作對教育人員跟老師怎麼樣給予對國家認同裡邊有一個更積極的好 有個更清楚的規範好不好這個部分大概多久的時候可以有一些相關的進度呢因為說要跟地方政府討論嘛那大概是什麼時候我們可以再追後續的進度"},{"start":467.273,"end":490.779,"text":"事實上我也跟委員報告我現在目前就是說因為當然有許多公務的一個行程但是我也跟各地方縣市教育局所長有一些比較這個非紳士的一些座談大概我也希望說把這樣一個訊息很清楚的我了解啦部長我了解我也知道你也非常有心但是我想要知道我們什麼時候可以再來了解下一步你們的進度在哪裡啦對"},{"start":493.393,"end":514.109,"text":"可不可以給我們一個大概的時間我想五月底之前五月底之前 好 謝謝那再來下一個 這個我先跳過我先來提這個問題我們聽一下這個小朋友在學校講台遇到的狀況是什麼聲音好像沒有出來喔可以暫停一下 時間可以暫停一下嗎等一下 時間暫停一下好不好待會還你"},{"start":515.768,"end":515.908,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":538.648,"end":556.483,"text":"他想要用台語報告的時候老師要求他講國語那這個其實前面還有一段是他在講台語的時候老師就說那是你回去跟你媽媽講的語言我聽不懂這是這個小孩遇到的狀況所以我想要問一下就是說為什麼這個老師可以直接拒絕孩子的這樣子的需求呢"},{"start":558.425,"end":581.435,"text":"因為其實我自己在做兒童人權的這個工作十年嘛通常這個現場我們應該是可以跟孩子講說如果是這個地方真的是希望顧及到其他小孩可能聽不懂台語的話我們應該可以用更好的方式來跟孩子做表達讓他了解老師現在要照顧到其他學生的困境才對而不是用這樣子的方式去跟小孩講這是你回家跟媽媽講的語言啊你就是要講"},{"start":582.574,"end":583.996,"text":"對教育現場老師我們一直期待也辦了許多的徵人老師的一個對"},{"start":600.029,"end":628.678,"text":"本土語言 國家語言上的一些基本的一個態度我想這我們會來努力來改善好 這部分我們希望政要需要部長然後再來就是說我們現在可以看到台語跟母語的人力其實是失之有在增加的啦但是我有點不太曉得這個我們現在的一個國家語言發展計畫我們的相關教育部的業務報告裡面到底我們的目標到底是什麼我在這裡面看不到我們的政策目標是什麼"},{"start":630.274,"end":635.056,"text":"雖然有在增加但是我們是要再增加更多嗎還是怎樣這看不出來這個部分我們可不可以請謝謝維恩這個老師的要求除了數量上沒有達到會讓大家很直觀的覺得好像沒有要認真推之外在教學還有相關的教師增能我以上做簡要的說明之後很細的跟你們報告也給我10秒第一個"},{"start":658.667,"end":684.063,"text":"原來我們只有兩萬一千名老師大家覺得總是找不到老師所以我們用時間大概用一年的時間增加了六千名所以現在是兩萬八千五百名那這樣的一個數量以我們現在評估是比較夠的這第一點第二點在課程教學如剛剛可能我們在推的時候有一些也不見得只有在那個課程才一節而已才夠所以希望能夠進潤式的不要只有那一節上"},{"start":684.443,"end":701.037,"text":"這個學校的生活作息內也能上這樣的一個實驗學校也已經超過了500校第三點類似課程教學教材目前的教材怕太過於生硬也希望它能夠生活化達到它能夠用了才能夠喜愛它學了才能夠用"},{"start":701.497,"end":705.56,"text":"沒關係 蘇長我簡單講一下那我再花一點時間就是說我們覺得夠可是民間覺得不夠這到底怎樣叫做夠我覺得這是值得來討論的然後這也回應到就是說我們沉浸式教學的目標我們這個工作的目標到底是什麼因為我們必須要訂出一個清趣的目標我們才可以知道我們"},{"start":718.471,"end":742.349,"text":"民間大家也才會有一個共同一致性一起來努力然後一起來檢討嘛所以這個部分我們是不是會會約個時間來詳細討論好了好不好然後再來最後一題這個簡單來講一下就是說我們這個本土語言的精進培訓研習課程有團體跟我反映啦他們上禮拜去上課的時候呢不管你今天上哪一個語言喔台語課原住民語老師都是用華語來呈現"},{"start":746.673,"end":750.175,"text":"但是這個是一個本土語言課程怎麼會這樣委員我先報告一個細節如果說委員這邊有這個比較細的給我來追查了解一下我們跟中生司機來處理第二點本來就應該是用全那個語言來上會更"},{"start":769.584,"end":783.232,"text":"比較有實境的感覺以及未來教學運用上也比較靈活我們非常支持委員這個方向好那這個要我們就是我把這個資訊pass過去好不好我們接下來可能要仔細的看不然這是本土語言精進課程就全部用華語這實在是太荒謬了好不好"},{"start":785.584,"end":805.106,"text":"我講就是這個區塊我們怎麼樣落實這個本土語言的教學事實上也是我最近一直要我們相關的這個師處署簡單來講我們能不能像英文裡邊小學他從日常的生活裡邊然後我們小學"},{"start":806.047,"end":831.708,"text":"第一年級中年級高年級有一些目標的設定讓這些本土語言從生活自我介紹到學校介紹家族介紹社區裡邊能夠真正落實這一個本土語言的一個學習不僅是台語客語原住民語都是我們希望能夠微調讓他真正能夠結合生活能夠真正能夠落實這個國家語言的一個推動"},{"start":832.148,"end":859.489,"text":"我覺得部長我覺得你非常有心我也非常感謝你但是因為從106年開始沉浸式計畫到111年之後我就拿不到任何的資料了我在網路上面找不到相關的資料所以到底這個沉浸式語言的計畫執行成效是什麼坦白說我可能也需要教育部提供給我我們才有辦法進一步的來檢討到底這樣子的方向是不是正確有沒有需要做微調好不好到111年之後我就沒有看到任何的資料了所以這部分也請"},{"start":860.389,"end":864.132,"text":"那個再不提供給我那大概什麼時候可以提供給我呢兩天內兩天內好 謝謝謝謝張雅玲"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":608,"blocks":[["張委員雅琳：（12時7分）有請部長，謝謝。"],["主席：有請部長備質詢，謝謝。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["張委員雅琳：部長好。開始之前我想要先說一件事情，剛剛柯志恩委員有講到中正大學這件事情，說這件事情應該是無關轉型正義，但是我必須要跟部長做個說明，在1986年，中正大學當時就是為了紀念獨裁者蔣中正而命名的，這在校史館上面寫得清清楚楚，並且通過了行政院第2006次的院會決議。我也必須再跟部長做個說明，在促轉會裡面，其實都有特別的去提到我們有一些相關的路名，包含中正、介壽、經國，總共有355條，都必須來做一個整體的處理，就是要去威權化，所以我必須要做個……雖然我們現在是針對於建物，我們有做一些相關的補助計畫，但我認為接下來我們也要來處理相關的大學學校的命名，所以我也是呼籲我們的國民黨，不要在這個時候還要再來扭曲事實，為威權來擦脂抹粉，所以這一點是希望部長要清楚地了解，這是我們應該要前進的方向。","接下來回到我今天質詢的題目。剛剛其實也有委員質詢這件事情，就是有很多的學生現在在校園裡面也發起了一些連署，也遇到了一些打壓，甚至翁曉玲委員也是呼籲，大罷免連署進入校園，基本上如果我們不管的話，我們就是默不作聲，這件事情我也想要來跟部長做一些討論。現在教育基本法第六條裡面有講到教育應本中立的原則，學校不得為特定政治團體從事宣傳或活動。主管機關、行政機關及學校亦不得強迫學校行政人員、教師及學生參與任何的政治活動，我們再看這一張，當時我去查了一下，立法院第3屆第4會期在86年9月25號一讀的行政院文書是這樣子寫的，這一條是要來確保教育專業自主及正常發展，避免政治不當干預，當時的背景是這樣，最主要是因為當時的國民黨透過了這樣子的方式去做了很多的干預，所以我想請教一下，部長目前也有看到這些學生面臨到的一些爭議，對不對？像是清華大學的學生在人社院擺罷免連署站，校方雖然沒有發現違規行為，可是他援引了第六條禁止特定政治活動進入校園，同樣的事情，政治大學、師範大學、北藝大都有類似這樣子的一個關心，甚至臺大的學生被成大的副教授謾罵，但是我們也看到中山大學做出了一個很不錯的榜樣，這個校長是這樣說的，只要不涉及侮辱、誹謗或歧視，其實都是政治言論自由的一個表現，所以我想要聽部長的看法到底是什麼？因為學生主張任何政治行為，其實應該都要被尊重，因為我們的憲法其實有保障參政權，我們的兒童權利公約裡面也有講兒童可以有參與公共事務的權利，這都已經國內法化了，所以我想聽聽部長可不可以分享您的看法是什麼？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員的指導，我完全同意剛才委員所提的，因為學校保持中立，然後不給這一個政黨……因為是從學校的規範，因為當時它確實希望政黨退出校園，讓學校能夠恢復到自由的思潮，能夠真正有一個更好的學習環境。"],["張委員雅琳：沒錯！"],["鄭部長英耀：所以學校不會就特定政黨去做宣傳或者舉辦許多場地出租活動，但這是屬於學生的公民參與，他對公共事務的關心，包含他對自己的權益，這都是屬於言論自由的層次，所以就像中山大學李校長講的，不要涉及侮辱、毀謗、歧視，甚至我在談，有許多的活動要考慮不會影響到公共安全這些等等的考量……"],["張委員雅琳：所以部長的看法應該是支持學生可以自由表達自己的一些政治的想法？"],["鄭部長英耀：是，那是一個公民素養學習，他必須要……"],["張委員雅琳：好，那我想請教一下部長，如果接下來我們又發生這樣的事情的話，我們應該如何來協助學生呢？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想教育部已經三申五令，而且先前也發了2次的公文……"],["張委員雅琳：針對這次的事件嗎？還是以前？"],["鄭部長英耀：是先前。"],["張委員雅琳：那我們是不是可以再提醒一下？"],["鄭部長英耀：如果再有一些事件，我想教育部可以主動來……"],["張委員雅琳：我希望部長可以主動發出這個公文提醒大家一下，因為這不是只有1間學校，是1間、2間、3間學校都發生這樣子的事情，我們必須要把這件事情講清楚，好不好？","再來，我們之前有發生桃園的小學的校長在他自己的抖音上面寫他的IP是中國臺灣，他也發了一個我愛你中國，其實剛剛也有相關的委員提到這件事情，我想要請教部長，我們到底要如何去加強教職員的國安意識，要如何去強化教職員對國家的效忠？剛剛部長提的是會請公民科、社會科的老師增加一些識讀的教育，來協助我們的孩子了解國際的威脅，可是現在問題是發生在教職員，所以這個部分的話，我們到底能不能比照軍人，對公立學校的校長、教師等公務人員，建立明確的效忠國家的規範與法律責任，以防止教育體系被滲透？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想在教育人員或者老師裡面，他本來就有受學校的規範，我剛才也特別跟委員報告過，就教育基本法的教育目的，他扮演老師的角色就是要服從教育基本法第二條的規範，他要怎麼去培養……"],["張委員雅琳：是沒有錯，可是現在是校長已經公然地……甚至我也有收到學校老師……"],["鄭部長英耀：對，當教育人員違反他應該恪守的一些法律，關於這個部分，本來在聘書裡就有規範他要依法。"],["張委員雅琳：同意，我們都要簽，但是問題是事實上就是做了嘛！那做了到底該怎麼辦？"],["鄭部長英耀：針對這一個部分，我們會再跟地方政府協調，希望能夠有更明確的一些規範。"],["張委員雅琳：我想我們要有一個更明確的規範，因為我真的有聽到國中的老師叫學生去看中國的央視來了解中國歷史，這是他的作業喔！"],["鄭部長英耀：我想這個部分我們會從行政體系來提醒，也希望能夠跟各地方縣市政府合作，看怎麼樣讓教育人員跟老師可以對國家認同有一個更積極的行為。"],["張委員雅琳：有一個更清楚的規範，好不好？這個部分大概要多久的時間可以有一些相關的進度呢？因為你說要跟地方政府討論，大概是什麼時候我們可以再來追後續的進度？"],["鄭部長英耀：事實上我也跟委員報告，目前當然有許多公務的行程，但是我也跟各地方縣市教育局處首長有一些比較非正式的座談，當然我也希望把這樣的訊息很清楚地透過……"],["張委員雅琳：我了解啦！部長，我了解，我也知道你也非常有心，但我想要知道我們什麼時候可以再來了解下一步你們的進度在哪裡啦！可不可以給我們一個大概的時間？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想5月底以前我們……"],["張委員雅琳：5月底之前，好，謝謝。","再來，我先來提這個問題，我們聽一下小朋友在學校講台語所遇到的狀況是什麼。聲音好像沒有出來，時間可以暫停一下嗎？等一下，時間暫停一下，好嗎？"],["主席：時間待會還你。"],["張委員雅琳：謝謝主席。","（播放影片）"],["張委員雅琳：他想要用台語報告的時候，老師要求他要講國語，其實前面還有一段，是他在講台語的時候，老師就說那是你回去跟你媽媽講的語言，我聽不懂。這是這個小孩遇到的狀況，所以我想要問一下，為什麼這個老師可以直接拒絕孩子這樣子的需求呢？其實我自己做兒童人權工作10年，通常現場我們應該是可以跟孩子講說，如果這個地方真的是希望顧及到其他小孩可能聽不懂台語的話，我們應該可以有更好的方式來跟孩子做表達，讓他了解老師現在要照顧到其他學生的困境才對，而不是用這樣子的方式去跟小孩講說這是你回家跟媽媽講的語言，你就是要講華語。您覺得我們可以怎麼協助老師具備這樣子的能力去跟我們的孩子做溝通呢？"],["鄭部長英耀：對於教育現場的老師，我們一直期待，也辦了許多的增能，讓老師在本土語言、國家語言上有一些基本態度，我想這部分我們會努力改善。"],["張委員雅琳：好，這部分我們真的需要部長協助。再來，我們現在可以看到台語跟母語的人力其實師資是有在增加的，但是我有點不太曉得，我們現在的國家語言發展計畫，在相關教育部的業務報告裡面，到底我們的目標是什麼？我在這裡面看不到我們的政策目標是什麼耶！雖然有在增加，但是我們是要再增加更多嗎？還是怎樣？這看不出來，這個部分可不可以說明？"],["彭署長富源：謝謝委員。關於老師的要求，除了數量上沒有達到會讓大家很直觀地覺得好像沒有要認真推之外，在教學還有相關的教師增能部分，我以上做簡要的說明之後，再很細地跟您報告，也給我10秒的時間。第一個，原來我們只有2萬1,000名老師，大家覺得總是找不到老師，所以我們大概用一年的時間增加了6,000名，現在是2萬8,500名，對於這樣的數量，以我們現在的評估是比較夠的，這是第一點。第二點，在課程教學部分，可能我們在推的時候，有一些也不見得只有在那個課程才一節而已才夠，所以希望能夠用浸潤式的方式，不要只有在那一節上，在學校的生活作息內也能上，這樣的實驗學校也已經超過500校。第三點，類似的課程教學教材，目前的教材怕太過於生硬，也希望能夠生活化，達到他們用了才能夠喜愛、學了才能夠用，以上。"],["張委員雅琳：沒關係署長，我簡單講一下，我再花一點時間，就是我們覺得夠，可是民間覺得不夠，到底怎樣叫做夠？我覺得這是值得來討論的，然後這也回應到我們沉浸式教學的目標，還有這個工作的目標到底是什麼，因為我們必須要訂出一個精確的目標，民間也才會有共同的一致性，一起來努力，然後一起來檢討。所以關於這個部分，我們是不是會後約個時間來詳細討論，好不好？"],["彭署長富源：好。"],["張委員雅琳：最後一題，這個簡單講一下，關於本土語言的精進培訓研習課程，有團體跟我反映他們上禮拜去上課的時候，不管今天上哪一個語言，比如台語課或原住民語課，老師都是用華語來呈現，但這是一個本土語言課程耶！怎麼會這樣？還是署長不曉得？"],["彭署長富源：委員，我先報告一個細節，如果委員這邊有比較細的資訊，請給我來追查了解一下，我們跟終身司一起來處理。"],["張委員雅琳：好。"],["彭署長富源：第二點，他本來就應該用那個語言來上，會比較有實境的感覺，以及未來教學運用上也比較靈活，我們非常支持委員的這個方向。"],["張委員雅琳：好，我們一樣會把這個資訊pass過去，好不好？我們接下來可能要仔細地看，不然這是本土語言精進課程耶！結果全部用華語，這實在是太荒謬了啦，好不好？"],["鄭部長英耀：確實在這一個區塊，我們怎麼樣落實本土語言的教學，事實上也是我最近一直要我們相關的司處署……簡單來講，我們能不能像英文一樣，在小學從日常的生活裡面，於小學低年級、中年級、高年級有一些目標的設定，讓這些本土語言從生活的自我介紹到學校介紹、家族介紹，在社區裡面能夠真正落實本土語言的學習，不論台語、客語或原住民語，都是我們希望能夠微調，讓它真正能夠結合生活、真正能夠落實國家語言的推動。"],["張委員雅琳：部長，我覺得你非常有心，也非常感謝你，但是因為從106年開始，沉浸式計畫到111年之後我就拿不到任何的資料了，我在網路上面找不到相關的資料，所以到底這個沉浸式語言計畫的執行成效是什麼？坦白說，我可能也需要教育部提供給我，我們才有辦法進一步地來檢討到底這樣子的方向是不是正確，有沒有需要做微調，好不好？到111年之後我就沒有看到任何的資料了，所以這部分也請教育部提供給我，大概什麼時候可以提供給我呢？"],["彭署長富源：兩天內。"],["張委員雅琳：兩天內，好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝張雅琳委員質詢，請部會官員回座。","接下來有請鄭天財委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":186,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-7","speakers":["葛如鈞","萬美玲","柯志恩","劉書彬","羅廷瑋","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林宜瑾","吳思瑤","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","林沛祥","張雅琳","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","范雲","李坤城","謝龍介","王定宇","黃國昌","翁曉玲","陳培瑜","葉元之","高金素梅"],"page_start":113,"meetingDate":["2025-04-14"],"gazette_id":"1143702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143702_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143702_00003"}}}