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{\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 375.195, \"end\": 375.596, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 375.596, \"end\": 375.776, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 375.776, \"end\": 375.956, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 375.956, \"end\": 376.096, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 376.096, \"end\": 376.276, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 376.276, \"end\": 376.296, \"score\": 1.0}]}, {\"start\": 377.704, \"end\": 402.657, \"text\": \"等於說集中式的一個收藏還是有用個人的一些櫃子上的一個這我們尊重各學校他訂出的一些辦法那基本上行動載具拿到載到學校之後就是不能用就對了就是這個方向那第二個就是說這個因為剛剛提到這個霸凌事件是因為說他沒有跟同學一起在討論這個抖音那但是抖音跟這個小紅書目前已經被訴發部認為說是危害國安的這個滋通的這個產品那我想請教一下部長\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 377.704, \"end\": 377.904, \"score\": 0.732}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 377.904, \"end\": 378.485, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"集\", \"start\": 378.485, \"end\": 378.725, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 378.725, \"end\": 378.985, 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\"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,740 --> 00:00:11,484\n謝謝主席我先讓部長先喝口水那我們請這個鄭部長請部長被質詢謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:19,588 --> 00:00:43,974\n部長好辛苦了質詢了一個上午早上我也聽到很多的同仁都有問到有關教育基本法第六條的問題因為現在有很多的學生他們在大學裡面有關於一些辯論一些罷免或是設立一些罷免連署站的一些問題然後都有提到說教育基本法第六條的問題不過呢這個大家已經說得很清楚了\n\n3\n00:00:44,754 --> 00:00:55,929\n這第六條規範的對象是學校要求學校要秉持中立的原則但是呢老社會學生從事政黨活動呢還是受到憲法言論自由所保障我想這沒有問題嘛對不對\n\n4\n00:00:58,188 --> 00:01:16,062\n那再請教一下部長大學也不是象牙塔那所以對於政治社會的這些事件呢師生都可以表達意見這都是屬於言論的自由那也代表學生對於社會事務的關心譬如像2014年3月的太陽花反服貿的學運還有2017年反送中支持香港\n\n5\n00:01:16,762 --> 00:01:42,370\n在很多學校也都有設有農林牆那我現在舉兩個這個例子一個是發生在中山大學一個是發生在政治大學那其實我看這兩個學校後來發的聲明那其實都是把這一個有關於在學校裡面從事罷免或是張貼相關的文宣都把它當成是言論自由的一部分我們看這一個中山大學的這個校長這個李志朋校長他有說到\n\n6\n00:01:42,990 --> 00:02:03,092\n任何關於投票、罷免的言論,不論支持或反對,只要不涉及侮辱、毀謗或歧視,都是政治言論自由的表現這是中山大學然後我看這個政治大學,政治大學雖然大家認為說它好像是比較保守的學校但是呢,他們有一個活動的聲明,對於這個罷免連署活動的聲明,他也提到說\n\n7\n00:02:03,993 --> 00:02:26,100\n學校也肯定學生基於自主意志關心公共事務然後表達意見與實踐民主的精神好那我來請教一下部長部長過去也曾經擔任過這個中山大學的校長那對於在校園內討論這個國會的亂象設立罷免連署債還有張貼相關的文宣是有違反教育中立呢還是屬於這個言論自由的一個範疇我講他是\n\n8\n00:02:29,778 --> 00:02:39,388\n基本上他是沒有違反教育中立就是沒有違反教育基本法第六條嘛我們剛才講得很清楚規範學校尤其是過去國民黨在學校還有設立知青黨部等等\n\n9\n00:02:45,267 --> 00:03:10,284\n那學生當然他來自於他對公共事務的關心還有他許多的一些這一個確身的一些許多的一些議題這都是屬於在學生的一個自由言論的一個範疇內他不應該被禁止就是說現在有在學校裡面大家很關心國會的一些亂象那甚至也提到說要罷免一些不適合的國會議員那部長也都認為說這都是屬於這個學生的這個言論自由的範疇就對了\n\n10\n00:03:16,228 --> 00:03:35,869\n那這個因為剛剛很多委員都問過了我就不再多問那不過我要再另外一個問另外有關這個抖音的問題不知道部長有沒有看到這個最近一個新聞有一個媽媽她就是說她在念國中的女兒沒有使用抖音那結果遭班上同學嘲笑跟不上時事住山洞\n\n11\n00:03:36,249 --> 00:04:02,407\n或是很土那甚至後來也變成這個排擠跟霸凌的事件然後這個甚至他的同學往這個媽媽的女兒把這個水啊還沒有吃完的這些早餐往女兒的書包裡面倒不曉得有沒有看到這個新聞就是因為你沒有去跟同學這個一起聊抖音的事情結果變成這一個校園的一個霸凌排擠的事件有注意到這個新聞嗎\n\n12\n00:04:07,335 --> 00:04:29,187\n這個新聞我倒沒有特別去注意到但是抖音這個在我們的學術網路裡面在學校裡面我們本來就把它隔絕的好那現在兩個問題來請教部長第一個就是對於手機的管理那第二個就是對於抖音小紅書這些有危害國安的這些自動產品如何管理的問題那第一個\n\n13\n00:04:29,887 --> 00:04:53,068\n對於手機的管理那其實像在去年底其實在立法院召開公聽會然後呢這個教育部也對於這個行動校園行動載具的使用規則在3月10號也有一個規範出來了那我請問一下這個部長對於這個校園行動載具使用大方向為何是原則禁止例外開放呢還是怎麼樣那在何時會適用這一個使用的原則對於跟我們報告這一個\n\n14\n00:04:57,299 --> 00:05:14,595\n校園行動採取的使用基本上它是被禁止的也就是說學生到學校以後這個手機我們是基本上學校會有一個統一的管理的一個或者保存的一個空間署長你現在說講的是3月12號之後的新的規範嗎\n\n15\n00:05:15,949 --> 00:05:33,279\n我們跟地方縣市教育局然後跟家長團體校長團體還有一些公聽會我們大概已經有一個初步的一個草案那這一個在今年的一個一一四協定度等於九月開學我們就會全面來實施\n\n16\n00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:57,557\n就是說原則上在上課期間禁止使用就對了除非有一些老師上課上真的需要到但是通常我們有電腦教室或者有一些IPnotebook這個部分因為老師教學上需要的一些資源原則上大概就是除非有真正教學上或者\n\n17\n00:05:58,798 --> 00:06:16,296\n學生個人有特別偶發的一些情況不然他全部都要被統一來管理那這個部分我們當然也授權各個學校裡面朝那一個原則方向禁止使用的一個方向來訂定規範也就是說他到底要用\n\n18\n00:06:17,704 --> 00:06:42,657\n等於說集中式的一個收藏還是有用個人的一些櫃子上的一個這我們尊重各學校他訂出的一些辦法那基本上行動載具拿到載到學校之後就是不能用就對了就是這個方向那第二個就是說這個因為剛剛提到這個霸凌事件是因為說他沒有跟同學一起在討論這個抖音那但是抖音跟這個小紅書目前已經被訴發部認為說是危害國安的這個滋通的這個產品那我想請教一下部長\n\n19\n00:06:47,479 --> 00:07:10,990\n我們現在對於這個高中以下的學校有沒有安排這個媒體的試圖的課程那尤其關於這個對TikTok或是這個小紅書這些進行辨識還有一些批判性的思考教學然後對於這個身為的這些技術進行教育然後呢有沒有了解一下說這個TikTok在國高中還有大學中的使用的這個使用率還有它的內容的傾向這有沒有做過研究跟調查\n\n20\n00:07:11,992 --> 00:07:29,134\n目前這個媒體試讀我想我們各相關事處都有在推動然後包含這個課程把等於說在教學怎麼樣去辨識這些都是有在做教學那詳細的是不是請補充說明好那就做補充說明\n\n21\n00:07:29,875 --> 00:07:50,726\n是跟委員報告其實我們在這個媒體試讀或是素養方面其實我們都有幫老師做真人我們也有教材我們也有學生的暑期都會有一些活動所以學生可以自學我們也有那種網路的自評活動那在這一方面的教材我們會不斷地更新你這個是從小學開始嗎對從小學開始是\n\n22\n00:07:54,988 --> 00:08:21,347\n那我問一下,那有沒有特別去了解說TikTok跟小紅書在校園使用的這個狀況?跟委員報告,就是TikTok跟小紅書在我們目前台灣學術網路在校園裡面就是學生就學的時候是禁用的我知道啦,我們學校不能用嘛,公部門不能使用那我是說有沒有說,去了解說學生他們在平常使用這個中小學生使用這個TikTok和小紅書的一個狀況\n\n23\n00:08:22,512 --> 00:08:43,213\n跟委員報告其實我們教育部有去調查學生使用社群媒體的這些狀況但是沒有特別去針對TikTok跟小紅書我是建議啦可以特別針對TikTok跟小紅書因為畢竟他是從中國那邊過來的他的一些想要散播的一些不管是他的意識形態或是他的內容其實都是有經過篩選過的\n\n24\n00:08:44,474 --> 00:09:00,288\n那甚至有一些有關於這些統戰的意識的形態也是包裝在一些你看起來好像無害的一些內容裡面那我是建議部長我們可以特別針對TikTok和小紅書的這一些內容然後對於一些學生的影響我覺得可以做一個研究啦\n\n25\n00:09:01,152 --> 00:09:06,534\n我想我們可以我們來事後來請國教署來做相關的一些調查好OK看怎麼樣後續再跟本席再來做個說明好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝李昆城委員質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3740\t11484\t謝謝主席我先讓部長先喝口水那我們請這個鄭部長請部長被質詢 謝謝\n19588\t43974\t部長好 辛苦了 質詢了一個上午早上我也聽到很多的同仁都有問到有關教育基本法第六條的問題因為現在有很多的學生他們在大學裡面有關於一些辯論一些罷免或是設立一些罷免連署站的一些問題然後都有提到說教育基本法第六條的問題不過呢 這個大家已經說得很清楚了\n44754\t55929\t這第六條規範的對象是學校要求學校要秉持中立的原則但是呢 老社會學生從事政黨活動呢還是受到憲法言論自由所保障我想這沒有問題嘛 對不對\n58188\t76062\t那再請教一下部長大學也不是象牙塔那所以對於政治社會的這些事件呢師生都可以表達意見這都是屬於言論的自由那也代表學生對於社會事務的關心譬如像2014年3月的太陽花反服貿的學運還有2017年反送中支持香港\n76762\t102370\t在很多學校也都有設有農林牆那我現在舉兩個這個例子一個是發生在中山大學 一個是發生在政治大學那其實我看這兩個學校後來發的聲明那其實都是把這一個有關於在學校裡面從事罷免或是張貼相關的文宣都把它當成是言論自由的一部分我們看這一個中山大學的這個校長這個李志朋校長他有說到\n102990\t123092\t任何關於投票、罷免的言論,不論支持或反對,只要不涉及侮辱、毀謗或歧視,都是政治言論自由的表現這是中山大學然後我看這個政治大學,政治大學雖然大家認為說它好像是比較保守的學校但是呢,他們有一個活動的聲明,對於這個罷免連署活動的聲明,他也提到說\n123993\t146100\t學校也肯定學生基於自主意志關心公共事務然後表達意見與實踐民主的精神好 那我來請教一下部長部長過去也曾經擔任過這個中山大學的校長那對於在校園內討論這個國會的亂象設立罷免連署債還有張貼相關的文宣是有違反教育中立呢還是屬於這個言論自由的一個範疇我講他是\n149778\t159388\t基本上他是沒有違反教育中立就是沒有違反教育基本法第六條嘛我們剛才講得很清楚規範學校尤其是過去國民黨在學校還有設立知青黨部等等\n165267\t190284\t那學生當然他來自於他對公共事務的關心還有他許多的一些這一個確身的一些許多的一些議題這都是屬於在學生的一個自由言論的一個範疇內他不應該被禁止就是說現在有在學校裡面大家很關心國會的一些亂象那甚至也提到說要罷免一些不適合的國會議員那部長也都認為說這都是屬於這個學生的這個言論自由的範疇就對了\n196228\t215869\t那這個因為剛剛很多委員都問過了我就不再多問那不過我要再另外一個問另外有關這個抖音的問題不知道部長有沒有看到這個最近一個新聞有一個媽媽她就是說她在念國中的女兒沒有使用抖音那結果遭班上同學嘲笑跟不上時事住山洞\n216249\t242407\t或是很土那甚至後來也變成這個排擠跟霸凌的事件然後這個甚至他的同學往這個媽媽的女兒把這個水啊還沒有吃完的這些早餐往女兒的書包裡面倒不曉得有沒有看到這個新聞就是因為你沒有去跟同學這個一起聊抖音的事情結果變成這一個校園的一個霸凌排擠的事件有注意到這個新聞嗎\n247335\t269187\t這個新聞我倒沒有特別去注意到但是抖音這個在我們的學術網路裡面在學校裡面我們本來就把它隔絕的好那現在兩個問題來請教部長第一個就是對於手機的管理那第二個就是對於抖音小紅書這些有危害國安的這些自動產品如何管理的問題那第一個\n269887\t293068\t對於手機的管理那其實像在去年底其實在立法院召開公聽會然後呢這個教育部也對於這個行動校園行動載具的使用規則在3月10號也有一個規範出來了那我請問一下這個部長對於這個校園行動載具使用大方向為何是原則禁止例外開放呢還是怎麼樣那在何時會適用這一個使用的原則對於跟我們報告這一個\n297299\t314595\t校園行動採取的使用基本上它是被禁止的也就是說學生到學校以後這個手機我們是基本上學校會有一個統一的管理的一個或者保存的一個空間署長你現在說講的是3月12號之後的新的規範嗎\n315949\t333279\t我們跟地方縣市教育局然後跟家長團體校長團體還有一些公聽會我們大概已經有一個初步的一個草案那這一個在今年的一個一一四協定度等於九月開學我們就會全面來實施\n334440\t357557\t就是說原則上在上課期間禁止使用就對了除非有一些老師上課上真的需要到但是通常我們有電腦教室或者有一些IP notebook這個部分因為老師教學上需要的一些資源原則上大概就是除非有真正教學上或者\n358798\t376296\t學生個人有特別偶發的一些情況不然他全部都要被統一來管理那這個部分我們當然也授權各個學校裡面朝那一個原則方向禁止使用的一個方向來訂定規範也就是說他到底要用\n377704\t402657\t等於說集中式的一個收藏還是有用個人的一些櫃子上的一個這我們尊重各學校他訂出的一些辦法那基本上行動載具拿到載到學校之後就是不能用就對了就是這個方向那第二個就是說這個因為剛剛提到這個霸凌事件是因為說他沒有跟同學一起在討論這個抖音那但是抖音跟這個小紅書目前已經被訴發部認為說是危害國安的這個滋通的這個產品那我想請教一下部長\n407479\t430990\t我們現在對於這個高中以下的學校有沒有安排這個媒體的試圖的課程那尤其關於這個對TikTok或是這個小紅書這些進行辨識還有一些批判性的思考教學然後對於這個身為的這些技術進行教育然後呢有沒有了解一下說這個TikTok在國高中還有大學中的使用的這個使用率還有它的內容的傾向這有沒有做過研究跟調查\n431992\t449134\t目前這個媒體試讀我想我們各相關事處都有在推動然後包含這個課程把等於說在教學怎麼樣去辨識這些都是有在做教學那詳細的是不是請補充說明好 那就做補充說明\n449875\t470726\t是 跟委員報告其實我們在這個媒體試讀或是素養方面其實我們都有幫老師做真人 我們也有教材我們也有學生的暑期都會有一些活動所以學生可以自學 我們也有那種網路的自評活動那在這一方面的教材我們會不斷地更新你這個是從小學開始嗎對 從小學開始是\n474988\t501347\t那我問一下,那有沒有特別去了解說TikTok跟小紅書在校園使用的這個狀況?跟委員報告,就是TikTok跟小紅書在我們目前台灣學術網路在校園裡面就是學生就學的時候是禁用的我知道啦,我們學校不能用嘛,公部門不能使用那我是說有沒有說,去了解說學生他們在平常使用這個中小學生使用這個TikTok和小紅書的一個狀況\n502512\t523213\t跟委員報告 其實我們教育部有去調查學生使用社群媒體的這些狀況但是沒有特別去針對TikTok跟小紅書我是建議啦 可以特別針對TikTok跟小紅書因為畢竟他是從中國那邊過來的他的一些 想要散播的一些不管是他的意識形態或是他的內容其實都是有經過篩選過的\n524474\t540288\t那甚至有一些有關於這些統戰的意識的形態也是包裝在一些你看起來好像無害的一些內容裡面那我是建議部長我們可以特別針對TikTok和小紅書的這一些內容然後對於一些學生的影響我覺得可以做一個研究啦\n541152\t546534\t我想我們可以 我們來 事後來請國教署來做相關的一些調查好 OK 看怎麼樣 後續再跟本席再來做個說明好 謝謝 謝謝部長 謝謝主席謝謝李昆城委員質詢\n","txt":"謝謝主席我先讓部長先喝口水那我們請這個鄭部長請部長被質詢 謝謝\n部長好 辛苦了 質詢了一個上午早上我也聽到很多的同仁都有問到有關教育基本法第六條的問題因為現在有很多的學生他們在大學裡面有關於一些辯論一些罷免或是設立一些罷免連署站的一些問題然後都有提到說教育基本法第六條的問題不過呢 這個大家已經說得很清楚了\n這第六條規範的對象是學校要求學校要秉持中立的原則但是呢 老社會學生從事政黨活動呢還是受到憲法言論自由所保障我想這沒有問題嘛 對不對\n那再請教一下部長大學也不是象牙塔那所以對於政治社會的這些事件呢師生都可以表達意見這都是屬於言論的自由那也代表學生對於社會事務的關心譬如像2014年3月的太陽花反服貿的學運還有2017年反送中支持香港\n在很多學校也都有設有農林牆那我現在舉兩個這個例子一個是發生在中山大學 一個是發生在政治大學那其實我看這兩個學校後來發的聲明那其實都是把這一個有關於在學校裡面從事罷免或是張貼相關的文宣都把它當成是言論自由的一部分我們看這一個中山大學的這個校長這個李志朋校長他有說到\n任何關於投票、罷免的言論,不論支持或反對,只要不涉及侮辱、毀謗或歧視,都是政治言論自由的表現這是中山大學然後我看這個政治大學,政治大學雖然大家認為說它好像是比較保守的學校但是呢,他們有一個活動的聲明,對於這個罷免連署活動的聲明,他也提到說\n學校也肯定學生基於自主意志關心公共事務然後表達意見與實踐民主的精神好 那我來請教一下部長部長過去也曾經擔任過這個中山大學的校長那對於在校園內討論這個國會的亂象設立罷免連署債還有張貼相關的文宣是有違反教育中立呢還是屬於這個言論自由的一個範疇我講他是\n基本上他是沒有違反教育中立就是沒有違反教育基本法第六條嘛我們剛才講得很清楚規範學校尤其是過去國民黨在學校還有設立知青黨部等等\n那學生當然他來自於他對公共事務的關心還有他許多的一些這一個確身的一些許多的一些議題這都是屬於在學生的一個自由言論的一個範疇內他不應該被禁止就是說現在有在學校裡面大家很關心國會的一些亂象那甚至也提到說要罷免一些不適合的國會議員那部長也都認為說這都是屬於這個學生的這個言論自由的範疇就對了\n那這個因為剛剛很多委員都問過了我就不再多問那不過我要再另外一個問另外有關這個抖音的問題不知道部長有沒有看到這個最近一個新聞有一個媽媽她就是說她在念國中的女兒沒有使用抖音那結果遭班上同學嘲笑跟不上時事住山洞\n或是很土那甚至後來也變成這個排擠跟霸凌的事件然後這個甚至他的同學往這個媽媽的女兒把這個水啊還沒有吃完的這些早餐往女兒的書包裡面倒不曉得有沒有看到這個新聞就是因為你沒有去跟同學這個一起聊抖音的事情結果變成這一個校園的一個霸凌排擠的事件有注意到這個新聞嗎\n這個新聞我倒沒有特別去注意到但是抖音這個在我們的學術網路裡面在學校裡面我們本來就把它隔絕的好那現在兩個問題來請教部長第一個就是對於手機的管理那第二個就是對於抖音小紅書這些有危害國安的這些自動產品如何管理的問題那第一個\n對於手機的管理那其實像在去年底其實在立法院召開公聽會然後呢這個教育部也對於這個行動校園行動載具的使用規則在3月10號也有一個規範出來了那我請問一下這個部長對於這個校園行動載具使用大方向為何是原則禁止例外開放呢還是怎麼樣那在何時會適用這一個使用的原則對於跟我們報告這一個\n校園行動採取的使用基本上它是被禁止的也就是說學生到學校以後這個手機我們是基本上學校會有一個統一的管理的一個或者保存的一個空間署長你現在說講的是3月12號之後的新的規範嗎\n我們跟地方縣市教育局然後跟家長團體校長團體還有一些公聽會我們大概已經有一個初步的一個草案那這一個在今年的一個一一四協定度等於九月開學我們就會全面來實施\n就是說原則上在上課期間禁止使用就對了除非有一些老師上課上真的需要到但是通常我們有電腦教室或者有一些IP notebook這個部分因為老師教學上需要的一些資源原則上大概就是除非有真正教學上或者\n學生個人有特別偶發的一些情況不然他全部都要被統一來管理那這個部分我們當然也授權各個學校裡面朝那一個原則方向禁止使用的一個方向來訂定規範也就是說他到底要用\n等於說集中式的一個收藏還是有用個人的一些櫃子上的一個這我們尊重各學校他訂出的一些辦法那基本上行動載具拿到載到學校之後就是不能用就對了就是這個方向那第二個就是說這個因為剛剛提到這個霸凌事件是因為說他沒有跟同學一起在討論這個抖音那但是抖音跟這個小紅書目前已經被訴發部認為說是危害國安的這個滋通的這個產品那我想請教一下部長\n我們現在對於這個高中以下的學校有沒有安排這個媒體的試圖的課程那尤其關於這個對TikTok或是這個小紅書這些進行辨識還有一些批判性的思考教學然後對於這個身為的這些技術進行教育然後呢有沒有了解一下說這個TikTok在國高中還有大學中的使用的這個使用率還有它的內容的傾向這有沒有做過研究跟調查\n目前這個媒體試讀我想我們各相關事處都有在推動然後包含這個課程把等於說在教學怎麼樣去辨識這些都是有在做教學那詳細的是不是請補充說明好 那就做補充說明\n是 跟委員報告其實我們在這個媒體試讀或是素養方面其實我們都有幫老師做真人 我們也有教材我們也有學生的暑期都會有一些活動所以學生可以自學 我們也有那種網路的自評活動那在這一方面的教材我們會不斷地更新你這個是從小學開始嗎對 從小學開始是\n那我問一下,那有沒有特別去了解說TikTok跟小紅書在校園使用的這個狀況?跟委員報告,就是TikTok跟小紅書在我們目前台灣學術網路在校園裡面就是學生就學的時候是禁用的我知道啦,我們學校不能用嘛,公部門不能使用那我是說有沒有說,去了解說學生他們在平常使用這個中小學生使用這個TikTok和小紅書的一個狀況\n跟委員報告 其實我們教育部有去調查學生使用社群媒體的這些狀況但是沒有特別去針對TikTok跟小紅書我是建議啦 可以特別針對TikTok跟小紅書因為畢竟他是從中國那邊過來的他的一些 想要散播的一些不管是他的意識形態或是他的內容其實都是有經過篩選過的\n那甚至有一些有關於這些統戰的意識的形態也是包裝在一些你看起來好像無害的一些內容裡面那我是建議部長我們可以特別針對TikTok和小紅書的這一些內容然後對於一些學生的影響我覺得可以做一個研究啦\n我想我們可以 我們來 事後來請國教署來做相關的一些調查好 OK 看怎麼樣 後續再跟本席再來做個說明好 謝謝 謝謝部長 謝謝主席謝謝李昆城委員質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.740 --> 00:11.484\n謝謝主席我先讓部長先喝口水那我們請這個鄭部長請部長被質詢謝謝\n\n00:19.588 --> 00:43.974\n部長好辛苦了質詢了一個上午早上我也聽到很多的同仁都有問到有關教育基本法第六條的問題因為現在有很多的學生他們在大學裡面有關於一些辯論一些罷免或是設立一些罷免連署站的一些問題然後都有提到說教育基本法第六條的問題不過呢這個大家已經說得很清楚了\n\n00:44.754 --> 00:55.929\n這第六條規範的對象是學校要求學校要秉持中立的原則但是呢老社會學生從事政黨活動呢還是受到憲法言論自由所保障我想這沒有問題嘛對不對\n\n00:58.188 --> 01:16.062\n那再請教一下部長大學也不是象牙塔那所以對於政治社會的這些事件呢師生都可以表達意見這都是屬於言論的自由那也代表學生對於社會事務的關心譬如像2014年3月的太陽花反服貿的學運還有2017年反送中支持香港\n\n01:16.762 --> 01:42.370\n在很多學校也都有設有農林牆那我現在舉兩個這個例子一個是發生在中山大學一個是發生在政治大學那其實我看這兩個學校後來發的聲明那其實都是把這一個有關於在學校裡面從事罷免或是張貼相關的文宣都把它當成是言論自由的一部分我們看這一個中山大學的這個校長這個李志朋校長他有說到\n\n01:42.990 --> 02:03.092\n任何關於投票、罷免的言論,不論支持或反對,只要不涉及侮辱、毀謗或歧視,都是政治言論自由的表現這是中山大學然後我看這個政治大學,政治大學雖然大家認為說它好像是比較保守的學校但是呢,他們有一個活動的聲明,對於這個罷免連署活動的聲明,他也提到說\n\n02:03.993 --> 02:26.100\n學校也肯定學生基於自主意志關心公共事務然後表達意見與實踐民主的精神好那我來請教一下部長部長過去也曾經擔任過這個中山大學的校長那對於在校園內討論這個國會的亂象設立罷免連署債還有張貼相關的文宣是有違反教育中立呢還是屬於這個言論自由的一個範疇我講他是\n\n02:29.778 --> 02:39.388\n基本上他是沒有違反教育中立就是沒有違反教育基本法第六條嘛我們剛才講得很清楚規範學校尤其是過去國民黨在學校還有設立知青黨部等等\n\n02:45.267 --> 03:10.284\n那學生當然他來自於他對公共事務的關心還有他許多的一些這一個確身的一些許多的一些議題這都是屬於在學生的一個自由言論的一個範疇內他不應該被禁止就是說現在有在學校裡面大家很關心國會的一些亂象那甚至也提到說要罷免一些不適合的國會議員那部長也都認為說這都是屬於這個學生的這個言論自由的範疇就對了\n\n03:16.228 --> 03:35.869\n那這個因為剛剛很多委員都問過了我就不再多問那不過我要再另外一個問另外有關這個抖音的問題不知道部長有沒有看到這個最近一個新聞有一個媽媽她就是說她在念國中的女兒沒有使用抖音那結果遭班上同學嘲笑跟不上時事住山洞\n\n03:36.249 --> 04:02.407\n或是很土那甚至後來也變成這個排擠跟霸凌的事件然後這個甚至他的同學往這個媽媽的女兒把這個水啊還沒有吃完的這些早餐往女兒的書包裡面倒不曉得有沒有看到這個新聞就是因為你沒有去跟同學這個一起聊抖音的事情結果變成這一個校園的一個霸凌排擠的事件有注意到這個新聞嗎\n\n04:07.335 --> 04:29.187\n這個新聞我倒沒有特別去注意到但是抖音這個在我們的學術網路裡面在學校裡面我們本來就把它隔絕的好那現在兩個問題來請教部長第一個就是對於手機的管理那第二個就是對於抖音小紅書這些有危害國安的這些自動產品如何管理的問題那第一個\n\n04:29.887 --> 04:53.068\n對於手機的管理那其實像在去年底其實在立法院召開公聽會然後呢這個教育部也對於這個行動校園行動載具的使用規則在3月10號也有一個規範出來了那我請問一下這個部長對於這個校園行動載具使用大方向為何是原則禁止例外開放呢還是怎麼樣那在何時會適用這一個使用的原則對於跟我們報告這一個\n\n04:57.299 --> 05:14.595\n校園行動採取的使用基本上它是被禁止的也就是說學生到學校以後這個手機我們是基本上學校會有一個統一的管理的一個或者保存的一個空間署長你現在說講的是3月12號之後的新的規範嗎\n\n05:15.949 --> 05:33.279\n我們跟地方縣市教育局然後跟家長團體校長團體還有一些公聽會我們大概已經有一個初步的一個草案那這一個在今年的一個一一四協定度等於九月開學我們就會全面來實施\n\n05:34.440 --> 05:57.557\n就是說原則上在上課期間禁止使用就對了除非有一些老師上課上真的需要到但是通常我們有電腦教室或者有一些IPnotebook這個部分因為老師教學上需要的一些資源原則上大概就是除非有真正教學上或者\n\n05:58.798 --> 06:16.296\n學生個人有特別偶發的一些情況不然他全部都要被統一來管理那這個部分我們當然也授權各個學校裡面朝那一個原則方向禁止使用的一個方向來訂定規範也就是說他到底要用\n\n06:17.704 --> 06:42.657\n等於說集中式的一個收藏還是有用個人的一些櫃子上的一個這我們尊重各學校他訂出的一些辦法那基本上行動載具拿到載到學校之後就是不能用就對了就是這個方向那第二個就是說這個因為剛剛提到這個霸凌事件是因為說他沒有跟同學一起在討論這個抖音那但是抖音跟這個小紅書目前已經被訴發部認為說是危害國安的這個滋通的這個產品那我想請教一下部長\n\n06:47.479 --> 07:10.990\n我們現在對於這個高中以下的學校有沒有安排這個媒體的試圖的課程那尤其關於這個對TikTok或是這個小紅書這些進行辨識還有一些批判性的思考教學然後對於這個身為的這些技術進行教育然後呢有沒有了解一下說這個TikTok在國高中還有大學中的使用的這個使用率還有它的內容的傾向這有沒有做過研究跟調查\n\n07:11.992 --> 07:29.134\n目前這個媒體試讀我想我們各相關事處都有在推動然後包含這個課程把等於說在教學怎麼樣去辨識這些都是有在做教學那詳細的是不是請補充說明好那就做補充說明\n\n07:29.875 --> 07:50.726\n是跟委員報告其實我們在這個媒體試讀或是素養方面其實我們都有幫老師做真人我們也有教材我們也有學生的暑期都會有一些活動所以學生可以自學我們也有那種網路的自評活動那在這一方面的教材我們會不斷地更新你這個是從小學開始嗎對從小學開始是\n\n07:54.988 --> 08:21.347\n那我問一下,那有沒有特別去了解說TikTok跟小紅書在校園使用的這個狀況?跟委員報告,就是TikTok跟小紅書在我們目前台灣學術網路在校園裡面就是學生就學的時候是禁用的我知道啦,我們學校不能用嘛,公部門不能使用那我是說有沒有說,去了解說學生他們在平常使用這個中小學生使用這個TikTok和小紅書的一個狀況\n\n08:22.512 --> 08:43.213\n跟委員報告其實我們教育部有去調查學生使用社群媒體的這些狀況但是沒有特別去針對TikTok跟小紅書我是建議啦可以特別針對TikTok跟小紅書因為畢竟他是從中國那邊過來的他的一些想要散播的一些不管是他的意識形態或是他的內容其實都是有經過篩選過的\n\n08:44.474 --> 09:00.288\n那甚至有一些有關於這些統戰的意識的形態也是包裝在一些你看起來好像無害的一些內容裡面那我是建議部長我們可以特別針對TikTok和小紅書的這一些內容然後對於一些學生的影響我覺得可以做一個研究啦\n\n09:01.152 --> 09:06.534\n我想我們可以我們來事後來請國教署來做相關的一些調查好OK看怎麼樣後續再跟本席再來做個說明好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝李昆城委員質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.74,"end":11.484,"text":"謝謝主席我先讓部長先喝口水那我們請這個鄭部長請部長被質詢 謝謝"},{"start":19.588,"end":43.974,"text":"部長好 辛苦了 質詢了一個上午早上我也聽到很多的同仁都有問到有關教育基本法第六條的問題因為現在有很多的學生他們在大學裡面有關於一些辯論一些罷免或是設立一些罷免連署站的一些問題然後都有提到說教育基本法第六條的問題不過呢 這個大家已經說得很清楚了"},{"start":44.754,"end":55.929,"text":"這第六條規範的對象是學校要求學校要秉持中立的原則但是呢 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那我來請教一下部長部長過去也曾經擔任過這個中山大學的校長那對於在校園內討論這個國會的亂象設立罷免連署債還有張貼相關的文宣是有違反教育中立呢還是屬於這個言論自由的一個範疇我講他是"},{"start":149.778,"end":159.388,"text":"基本上他是沒有違反教育中立就是沒有違反教育基本法第六條嘛我們剛才講得很清楚規範學校尤其是過去國民黨在學校還有設立知青黨部等等"},{"start":165.267,"end":190.284,"text":"那學生當然他來自於他對公共事務的關心還有他許多的一些這一個確身的一些許多的一些議題這都是屬於在學生的一個自由言論的一個範疇內他不應該被禁止就是說現在有在學校裡面大家很關心國會的一些亂象那甚至也提到說要罷免一些不適合的國會議員那部長也都認為說這都是屬於這個學生的這個言論自由的範疇就對了"},{"start":196.228,"end":215.869,"text":"那這個因為剛剛很多委員都問過了我就不再多問那不過我要再另外一個問另外有關這個抖音的問題不知道部長有沒有看到這個最近一個新聞有一個媽媽她就是說她在念國中的女兒沒有使用抖音那結果遭班上同學嘲笑跟不上時事住山洞"},{"start":216.249,"end":242.407,"text":"或是很土那甚至後來也變成這個排擠跟霸凌的事件然後這個甚至他的同學往這個媽媽的女兒把這個水啊還沒有吃完的這些早餐往女兒的書包裡面倒不曉得有沒有看到這個新聞就是因為你沒有去跟同學這個一起聊抖音的事情結果變成這一個校園的一個霸凌排擠的事件有注意到這個新聞嗎"},{"start":247.335,"end":269.187,"text":"這個新聞我倒沒有特別去注意到但是抖音這個在我們的學術網路裡面在學校裡面我們本來就把它隔絕的好那現在兩個問題來請教部長第一個就是對於手機的管理那第二個就是對於抖音小紅書這些有危害國安的這些自動產品如何管理的問題那第一個"},{"start":269.887,"end":293.068,"text":"對於手機的管理那其實像在去年底其實在立法院召開公聽會然後呢這個教育部也對於這個行動校園行動載具的使用規則在3月10號也有一個規範出來了那我請問一下這個部長對於這個校園行動載具使用大方向為何是原則禁止例外開放呢還是怎麼樣那在何時會適用這一個使用的原則對於跟我們報告這一個"},{"start":297.299,"end":314.595,"text":"校園行動採取的使用基本上它是被禁止的也就是說學生到學校以後這個手機我們是基本上學校會有一個統一的管理的一個或者保存的一個空間署長你現在說講的是3月12號之後的新的規範嗎"},{"start":315.949,"end":333.279,"text":"我們跟地方縣市教育局然後跟家長團體校長團體還有一些公聽會我們大概已經有一個初步的一個草案那這一個在今年的一個一一四協定度等於九月開學我們就會全面來實施"},{"start":334.44,"end":357.557,"text":"就是說原則上在上課期間禁止使用就對了除非有一些老師上課上真的需要到但是通常我們有電腦教室或者有一些IP notebook這個部分因為老師教學上需要的一些資源原則上大概就是除非有真正教學上或者"},{"start":358.798,"end":376.296,"text":"學生個人有特別偶發的一些情況不然他全部都要被統一來管理那這個部分我們當然也授權各個學校裡面朝那一個原則方向禁止使用的一個方向來訂定規範也就是說他到底要用"},{"start":377.704,"end":402.657,"text":"等於說集中式的一個收藏還是有用個人的一些櫃子上的一個這我們尊重各學校他訂出的一些辦法那基本上行動載具拿到載到學校之後就是不能用就對了就是這個方向那第二個就是說這個因為剛剛提到這個霸凌事件是因為說他沒有跟同學一起在討論這個抖音那但是抖音跟這個小紅書目前已經被訴發部認為說是危害國安的這個滋通的這個產品那我想請教一下部長"},{"start":407.479,"end":430.99,"text":"我們現在對於這個高中以下的學校有沒有安排這個媒體的試圖的課程那尤其關於這個對TikTok或是這個小紅書這些進行辨識還有一些批判性的思考教學然後對於這個身為的這些技術進行教育然後呢有沒有了解一下說這個TikTok在國高中還有大學中的使用的這個使用率還有它的內容的傾向這有沒有做過研究跟調查"},{"start":431.992,"end":449.134,"text":"目前這個媒體試讀我想我們各相關事處都有在推動然後包含這個課程把等於說在教學怎麼樣去辨識這些都是有在做教學那詳細的是不是請補充說明好 那就做補充說明"},{"start":449.875,"end":470.726,"text":"是 跟委員報告其實我們在這個媒體試讀或是素養方面其實我們都有幫老師做真人 我們也有教材我們也有學生的暑期都會有一些活動所以學生可以自學 我們也有那種網路的自評活動那在這一方面的教材我們會不斷地更新你這個是從小學開始嗎對 從小學開始是"},{"start":474.988,"end":501.347,"text":"那我問一下,那有沒有特別去了解說TikTok跟小紅書在校園使用的這個狀況?跟委員報告,就是TikTok跟小紅書在我們目前台灣學術網路在校園裡面就是學生就學的時候是禁用的我知道啦,我們學校不能用嘛,公部門不能使用那我是說有沒有說,去了解說學生他們在平常使用這個中小學生使用這個TikTok和小紅書的一個狀況"},{"start":502.512,"end":523.213,"text":"跟委員報告 其實我們教育部有去調查學生使用社群媒體的這些狀況但是沒有特別去針對TikTok跟小紅書我是建議啦 可以特別針對TikTok跟小紅書因為畢竟他是從中國那邊過來的他的一些 想要散播的一些不管是他的意識形態或是他的內容其實都是有經過篩選過的"},{"start":524.474,"end":540.288,"text":"那甚至有一些有關於這些統戰的意識的形態也是包裝在一些你看起來好像無害的一些內容裡面那我是建議部長我們可以特別針對TikTok和小紅書的這一些內容然後對於一些學生的影響我覺得可以做一個研究啦"},{"start":541.152,"end":546.534,"text":"我想我們可以 我們來 事後來請國教署來做相關的一些調查好 OK 看怎麼樣 後續再跟本席再來做個說明好 謝謝 謝謝部長 謝謝主席謝謝李昆城委員質詢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":741,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（12時48分）謝謝主席，我先讓部長喝口水，請鄭部長。"],["主席：請部長備詢，謝謝。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["李委員坤城：部長好，辛苦了，質詢了一個上午。早上我也聽到很多我們同仁都有問到關於教育基本法第六條的問題，因為現在有很多學生在大學裡面有一些關於辯論、罷免或是設立罷免連署站的問題，也都有提到教育基本法第六條的問題，不過大家已經說得很清楚了，第六條規範的對象是學校，要求學校要秉持中立原則，但是老師或學生從事政黨活動還是受到憲法言論自由所保障，我想這沒有問題，對不對？再請教一下部長，大學不是象牙塔，所以對於政治、社會的這些事件，師生都可以表達意見，這都是屬於言論的自由，也代表學生對於社會事務的關心，譬如像2014年3月的太陽花反服貿學運，還有2017年反送中支持香港，在很多學校也都有設有連儂牆。我現在舉兩個例子，一個是發生在中山大學，一個是發生在政治大學，我看這兩個學校後來發了聲明，其實都是有關於在學校裡面從事罷免或是張貼相關的文宣，他們都把它當成是言論自由的一部分。中山大學的李志鵬校長也說到：任何關於投票、罷免的言論，不論支持或反對，只要不涉及侮辱、誹謗或歧視，都是政治言論自由的表現。這是中山大學。然後我看政治大學，雖然大家認為政治大學好像是比較保守的學校，但是他們的對於罷免連署活動的聲明也提到：學校肯定學生基於自主意志關心公共事務，表達意見與實踐民主的精神。我請教一下部長，部長過去也曾經擔任過中山大學的校長，對於在校園內討論國會亂象，設立罷免連署站還有張貼相關的文宣是違反教育中立，還是屬於言論自由的範疇？"],["鄭部長英耀：基本上它是沒有違反教育中立。"],["李委員坤城：就是沒有違反教育基本法第六條嘛，我們剛才講得很清楚，規範在學校。"],["鄭部長英耀：規範是在學校。"],["李委員坤城：對，尤其過去國民黨在學校還有設立知青黨部等等。"],["鄭部長英耀：當然學生出自於對公共事務的關心還有許多切身的議題，都屬於學生自由言論的範疇內，我想這不應該被禁止。"],["李委員坤城：好，現在在學校裡面，大家很關心國會的一些亂象，甚至也提到要罷免一些不適任的國會議員，部長也認為這都屬於學生言論自由的範疇就對了？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["李委員坤城：因為剛才很多委員問過了，我就不再多問。不過，我要再問另外一個有關抖音的問題，不曉得部長有沒有看到最近的新聞，有一個媽媽說他在念國中的女兒沒有使用抖音，結果遭班上同學嘲笑跟不上時事、「住山洞」或是「很土」，甚至後來演變成排擠跟霸凌的事件，也甚至有同學把水、還沒有吃完的早餐往這個媽媽的女兒的書包裡倒，不曉得部長有沒有看到這個新聞？因為他沒有跟同學一起聊抖音的事情，結果變成一個校園霸凌、排擠的事件，有注意到這個新聞嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：這個新聞我倒沒有特別注意到，但是抖音在我們的學術網路、在學校裡面本來就是把它隔絕的。"],["李委員坤城：好，現在有兩個問題請教部長，第一個就是對於手機的管理；第二個就是對於抖音、小紅書這些有危害國安的資通產品如何管理的問題。第一個，對於手機的管理，其實去年底在立法院有召開公聽會，教育部也對於校園行動載具的使用規則在3月10號有一個規範出來了，我想請問一下部長，對於校園行動載具使用的大方向為何？是原則禁止，例外開放呢？還是怎麼樣？何時會適用這個使用原則？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，對於校園行動載具的使用，基本上它是被禁止的。"],["李委員坤城：被禁止。"],["鄭部長英耀：也就是學生帶手機到學校以後，基本上學校會有一個統一管理或者是保存的空間。"],["李委員坤城：部長，你現在所講的是3月10號之後的新規範嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：對，我們跟地方縣市教育局、家長團體、校長團體，還有一些公聽會，我們大概已經有一個初步的草案，在今年114學年度9月開學就會全面實施。"],["李委員坤城：原則上在上課期間禁止使用就對了？"],["鄭部長英耀：是，除非有一些老師上課真的需要用到……"],["李委員坤城：那下課呢？"],["鄭部長英耀：但是通常我們有電腦教室，或者有一些iPad、Notebook，老師教學上需要一些資源，原則上大概就是除非有真正教學上或學生個人有特別偶發的一些情況，不然全部都要被統一管理。這個部分我們當然也授權各個學校，朝禁止使用的原則方向來訂定規範，也就是說到底要用集中式的收藏，還是用個人的櫃子，我們尊重各個學校訂出的方法。"],["李委員坤城：基本上行動載具帶到學校之後就是不能用就對了。"],["鄭部長英耀：對！"],["李委員坤城：好，就是這個方向。第二個，剛剛提到霸凌事件，是因為他沒有跟同學一起討論抖音，但是抖音跟小紅書目前已經被數發部認為是危害國安的資通產品。請教部長，現在對於高中以下的學校，有沒有安排媒體識讀的課程？尤其關於TikTok或小紅書進行辨識，還有一些批判性的思考教學，對於深偽的技術進行教育；有沒有了解TikTok在國、高中，還有大學的使用率？還有它的內容傾向有沒有做過研究跟調查？"],["鄭部長英耀：目前媒體識讀，我想各相關司處都有在推動，包含課程教學怎麼樣去辨識，這些都是有在做的，詳細的部分請吳司長補充說明。"],["李委員坤城：好，做補充說明。"],["吳司長穎沺：跟委員報告，我們在媒體識讀或數位素養方面，其實我們都有幫老師做增能、也有教材，在學生的暑期都會有一些活動，所以學生可以自學，我們也有網路的自評活動，在這一方面的教材……"],["李委員坤城：是從小學開始嗎？"],["吳司長穎沺：是。"],["李委員坤城：我問一下，有沒有特別去了解TikTok跟小紅書在校園使用的狀況？"],["吳司長穎沺：跟委員報告，TikTok跟小紅書在目前臺灣學術網路在校園裡面，學生就學的時候是禁用的。"],["李委員坤城：我知道學校、公部門不能使用。我是說有沒有去了解中、小學生平常使用TikTok或小紅書的狀況？"],["吳司長穎沺：跟委員報告，其實教育部有去調查學生使用社群媒體的狀況，但是沒有特別去針對TikTok跟小紅書。"],["李委員坤城：我建議可以特別針對TikTok跟小紅書，因為畢竟它是從中國那邊過來的，它想要散播不管是意識形態或內容，其實都是有經過篩選的，甚至有一些關於統戰的意識型態，也是包裝在一些看起來好像無害的內容裡面。我建議部長，我們可以特別針對TikTok跟小紅書的內容，對於學生的影響可以做一個研究。"],["鄭部長英耀：我想我們可以事後請國教署做相關的調查。"],["李委員坤城：OK，看怎麼樣後續再跟本席做個說明。謝謝部長、謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝李坤城委員質詢，謝謝部長，請回座。","我這邊要提一下剛剛有多位委員都在提問設立罷免連署站跟張貼相關文宣，是不是在校內是可以的，非常多位委員有提問到罷免連署站及罷免連署這件事情，並不只是張貼海報。根據選罷法第五十二條，政黨及任何人懸掛或豎立標語等等，並不得於道路、學校或公共設施等等豎立之或懸掛之；第八十六條也有提到罷免提議人之領銜人、被罷免人，於罷免提議後，得於罷免區內設立支持與反對罷免之辦事處，置辦事人員。前項辦罷免辦事處，不得設於機關機（構）、學校等等。這個部分請教育部有關同仁再進一步去了解，否則我想這個模糊的回應怕民眾或委員誤會了，這一點希望教育部單位去釐清一下，謝謝。","不好意思，接下來有請謝龍介委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":186,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-7","speakers":["葛如鈞","萬美玲","柯志恩","劉書彬","羅廷瑋","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林宜瑾","吳思瑤","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","林沛祥","張雅琳","鄭天財Sra 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