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\"項\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 1164.698, \"end\": 1164.718, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 1164.718, \"end\": 1164.899, \"score\": 0.768}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 1164.899, \"end\": 1164.919, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1164.919, \"end\": 1165.059, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"項\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 1165.059, \"end\": 1165.479, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 1165.479, \"end\": 1165.499, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1165.499, \"end\": 1165.519, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"談\"}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 1165.519, \"end\": 1165.639, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 1165.639, \"end\": 1165.699, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 1165.699, \"end\": 1165.879, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 1165.879, \"end\": 1165.999, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"須\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1165.999, \"end\": 1166.019, 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\"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1812.065, \"end\": 1812.085, \"score\": 0.009}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 1839.175, \"end\": 1839.317, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"楊\"}, {\"word\": \"瓊\"}, {\"word\": \"英\", \"start\": 1839.317, \"end\": 1839.499, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 1839.499, \"end\": 1839.519, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,029 --> 00:00:11,613\n謝謝院長本席邀請行政院院長麻煩請卓院長再次備詢\n\n2\n00:00:21,308 --> 00:00:39,617\n杨委员好院长好本席首先今天要跟你分享也请你聆听一下我现在没有时间了时间在你们的手里一周八天一年六季你们是上帝而我的肋骨跟脊椎已经被你们通通收去我现在没有时间了\n\n3\n00:00:40,157 --> 00:00:54,164\n我會在駕駛的時候睡覺看護的時候夢遊蹲馬桶的時候吃便當抽菸的時候抱小孩而你們在開會的時候數錢度假的時候數錢打拋的時候數錢其實根本不用數\n\n4\n00:00:55,265 --> 00:01:14,765\n炸之機的牽管會直接通往你們家裡的保險箱我現在沒有時間了鬧鐘在你們的手裡但我不打算交出我手裡的電池我不打算交出我的脊椎我不打算交出我的孩子跟我自己那一點點抬頭看望天空的時間我不打算交出我的天空\n\n5\n00:01:15,345 --> 00:01:45,085\n土地需要時間才能回臥毛蟲需要時間才能變成蝠蝶我需要時間才能呼吸您也需要時間才能認出鏡子裡頭字跡我相信這些字或許有一點刺眼有一點刺耳但是都是我們在前線勞工在過勞的困境當中看到政府沒有辦法有作為的時候他只能用詩詞用文字做最後沉痛的掙扎跟表白\n\n6\n00:01:45,766 --> 00:02:05,323\n我希望政府能夠藉由這一首詩重新的來檢討勞動政策我也希望執政黨的官員們不要變成鄉賓socialist這是非常的重要過去執政黨號稱跟勞工團體站在一塊我們的前總統蔡英文小姐也說\n\n7\n00:02:06,184 --> 00:02:27,481\n他勞工是民進黨心中最軟的一塊但是民進黨推動勞基法修惡法砍掉了七天假勞工低薪又過時貧富差距越來越大勞動的條件也越來越差這樣的狀況我看到我們的政府還是看不到作為到現在台灣已經變成過勞之島院長你覺得怎樣\n\n8\n00:02:32,489 --> 00:02:52,567\n由在野黨來提醒執政黨9年提醒過去號稱的跟支持勞工的民進黨你不覺得有一點諷刺嗎因為在2023年的年總工時我們達到了2020小時為全球主要國家的第五高\n\n9\n00:02:53,708 --> 00:03:09,638\n亞洲地區主要國家的第二高我們僅次於誰呢僅次於新加坡近三年的工時不斷的在增加台灣已經成為過勞之島院長我們要如何處理你覺得我們是過勞之島嗎請做說明\n\n10\n00:03:12,405 --> 00:03:29,051\n兩個部分第一個所謂七天假並不是砍掉而是在實施週休二日之後他當時在前前前政府的時候就是這樣在設定馬總統的時候都是這樣在設定的所以七天假沒有所謂砍掉的問題現在是大家在評估說整個社會經濟進步的情況底下\n\n11\n00:03:29,571 --> 00:03:44,022\n有人提出各種休假的方式但這個截然跟所謂七天假不相干另外我們的工時比較長因為我們計算的方式如果把部分工時也算在裡面的話我們其實是沒有那麼長的這個再請部長來做仔細的說明請稍等\n\n12\n00:03:45,168 --> 00:04:10,494\n院長你說沒有砍掉七天架而且這也是不相關大家都聽到了我要告訴你本席具體數字告訴你公時可分為制度公時實際公時我們根據資料跟學者的同時我們來看數字台灣跟日韓來做比較法定的公時一樣單週是40個小時但是看是不比別人差但是最重要的差別是什麼\n\n13\n00:04:11,414 --> 00:04:39,580\n是永薪假日韓國定的假日呢他分別是16天跟15天都比我們台灣的12天還要高特休的部分我們看到在整個年薪滿15年之前台灣的特休假的基本上我們也是少於日韓喔所以台灣的青年他出入職場的時候他是更過勞更痛苦在這樣的情況之下台灣的勞工加入出入加入職場的他的一個\n\n14\n00:04:40,640 --> 00:05:00,860\n前兩年的一個時間點是多少公時是一千九百小時以上年資到三年到九年的部分甚至停滯在一千八百六十個小時所以它的時數都比日韓出入職場的還要高你要知道中小企業目前我們的平均的這個壽命是十三年\n\n15\n00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:21,410\n年資15年後才能夠比較有這個特休的一個設計在這樣情況之下加上我們的國定假日被砍不還那根本就是在壓榨我們整個的年輕勞工所以這樣子不是過勞什麼才是過勞呢所以本席要在這邊說明減少勞工\n\n16\n00:05:24,331 --> 00:05:53,081\n你們政府也一直在努力但是本是告訴你減少勞工也就是還勞工的七天假洪部長你記得洪委員嗎當時呢您也簽署了執政黨的委員也就是要怎麼樣降低工時所以院長在我們台灣面臨這樣子的一個過勞的情況甚至我們的年輕人青壯年的勞工的一個窘境他會影響到我們整個\n\n17\n00:05:53,921 --> 00:06:22,620\n國家的一個勞動少子化以及經濟這是國家大計這是國安大計所以我們如果持續的低薪那低薪改變不了的時候我相信減少工時不就是我們應該作為改革的重點嗎所以部長在你之前在立法院回答的時候我很高興的聽到你支持勞工的工時降低您現在的主張是不是一樣的態度呢請院長說明\n\n18\n00:06:24,061 --> 00:06:33,126\n請院長說明請院長說明因為這是部長院長您說明啊部長之前的說法跟現在一致我跟楊委員說明確實台灣的工時的問題我確實覺得有改善的空間\n\n19\n00:06:42,920 --> 00:07:06,577\n我認為確實有改善的空間事實上這幾年這個政府其實也很努力的希望來提高薪資其實提高跟薪資跟降低工時也是有關係的因為就是希望能夠把薪資的提高讓一些我們一些勞工他可能不會因為他的薪資過低所以他必須被迫要來加班所以就你的本業我們要怎麼樣降低工時你的措施在哪裡請教你\n\n20\n00:07:07,498 --> 00:07:29,612\n所以楊偉勇說明這幾年其實我們包括我們的基本工資其實一直在提升第二個其實我們現在會來提出關於薪資透明化的做法那薪資透明化其實也會有助於實質的薪資的提升其實事實上這兩年在薪資的提升上面是有成果的但我說實話我自己覺得當然還不夠請教工時的部分\n\n21\n00:07:30,452 --> 00:07:50,857\n對那我說薪資的提高跟工時之間是有關係的那至於剛剛楊委員可能講到的是國定假日的問題我自己覺得國定假日的問題從勞動部的角度來說我認為這是有討論的空間的非常感謝我們現在的洪部長還是支持以前洪委員的這個論點那所以本期要說明在我們的這個委員會裡頭\n\n22\n00:07:52,697 --> 00:08:16,916\n已經國民黨所提案已經有整合出一個版本而且出了委員會就送到院會代協商是將這五天至少還有五天還五天那請教院長你會不會支持這樣的方案我剛剛跟委員報告過2016年的時候馬前總統那個時代請教院長你會不會支持這樣子的方案因為您現在是院長\n\n23\n00:08:19,099 --> 00:08:33,561\n對這個國定假日如何去定義不要跟所謂七天假混在一起談不要混在一起啊那不要混在一起請問你們什麼時候要提出版本有沒有行政院版本大家都聽到了不要混在一起\n\n24\n00:08:34,422 --> 00:08:49,736\n換句話說再一次禮貌的請教你會不會支持目前在委員會所討論紅部長都在現場委員會所討論的也就是將國定的假日五天假送到院會要來協商請問行政院會不會支持\n\n25\n00:08:50,424 --> 00:09:07,896\n我們有我們的想法但這個想法我的前提想法是想委員要跟大家一起說跟老公朋友一起說在馬前總統的時候就說到了那個條件就是實施週休二日之後就沒有所謂七天假不要把它混在一起談\n\n26\n00:09:09,238 --> 00:09:29,058\n現在已經在立法院委員會已經送出了我想要請洪部長給院長報告一下我也希望得到行政院的一個支持我們真正的幫助我們的勞工這一個非常重要同時剛剛院長說了你們有你們的想法我也希望你們會不會送版本到立法院來請說明\n\n27\n00:09:30,939 --> 00:09:58,515\n所以七天假或五天或幾天有沒有經過科學的評估到底對國內的產業影響多少對勞工的工時降低多少要經過科學的評估這個在委員會都充分的討論所以院長我請你用點心協助我們的勞工我相信你一定有這個心你好好地協助我們的勞工把院板送來謝謝你接下來本席要討論的也就是我們世界潮流我們的能源政策\n\n28\n00:09:59,255 --> 00:10:23,345\n部長院長台灣在2025年非核家園的目標下今年的五月份將會關閉我們的這個第三核能電廠的二號機那達到了非核家園在這樣的情況之下同時我們看到再生能源是來不及補足我們台灣電力的一個缺口那我們只能夠仰賴什麼呢再生能源來不及的時候就仰賴南美\n\n29\n00:10:24,145 --> 00:10:44,015\n就仰賴我們的天然氣嘛發電但是這不僅違背了2050年的一個淨零碳排也可能可能會被課徵碳關稅也可能會被課徵喔所以在這樣的情況之下我們急迫的看到台電的員工很辛苦台電呢他累計的虧損將近4千億今年1月份他們的財報出來又增加了121億的虧損其中太陽能的虧損是5.8億\n\n30\n00:10:54,220 --> 00:11:11,096\n風力是58億外購燃氣的部分是這個17億那唯一沒有缺的沒有虧的就是有盈餘7億多的核電換句話說未來還是會繼續虧這樣子的一個方向政策所以院長\n\n31\n00:11:11,816 --> 00:11:30,124\n台電的虧損他應當最重要的是能源政策有問題因為這個數字已經告訴你了台電堅強還是要買高的綠電那這個是慘虧的原因那我們繼續來看到目前為止執政黨把發電平均1.12元最便宜的核電\n\n32\n00:11:31,405 --> 00:11:56,237\n要廢棄不用了但是我們的燃煤跟燃氣的部分是2.5到3塊我們的綠電我們又看到光電風電要多少5塊到6塊半所以在這樣的情況之下有學者推估去年台電很辛苦台電背了一個黑鍋因為購入了火力發電跟風力發電以外以外的支出超過600億\n\n33\n00:11:57,665 --> 00:12:14,755\n超過600億院長核電可以作為基載電力再生電源不行在這樣情況之下很多的國家考量到整個電力的一個穩定性而且又要不排碳的一個電力就有他們都有希望要保留核電\n\n34\n00:12:15,595 --> 00:12:30,144\n那現在AI的算計它的電力的需求量又是非常非常高電力就等於是國力科技的巨頭以及先進的國家都開始在使用核電台灣背道而馳\n\n35\n00:12:31,084 --> 00:13:00,120\n那麼沒有核電的計劃跟配套所以院長在氣候變遷的副總副召集人童子賢先生他也說了他說以一年用電三千億度來計算每一度如果差一塊錢那一年國家支出額外的多少三千億元三千億元所以他說他呼籲讓核電來幫忙吧他可以每一年替台灣省下N千億元\n\n36\n00:13:01,112 --> 00:13:27,755\n所以院長在這樣子的情況之下又在這個會議當中不只童子仁先生吶喊我們的中研院的廖院長他也說未來的AI用電需求量可能無上限台灣的土地面積以及再生能源的總量它也有上限所以因此我們必須要考慮其他的能源能夠來因應未來的一個需求\n\n37\n00:13:28,456 --> 00:13:44,994\n他说在过去德国因为他有两周缺了阳光跟缺了风所以他就向邻近的国家法国以核能为主要能源的来进口核电我们是不是应该也要效法\n\n38\n00:13:46,815 --> 00:14:10,463\n這個德國的一個做法在這樣的考量之下我們更必須要將我們的能源安全能源成長以及台灣目前所需要的這些狀況納入整體性的一個評估所以院長在我們世界各國如此的作為我們是反逆的世界潮流還是要配合所以我們我也藉由美國前任的這個\n\n39\n00:14:11,423 --> 00:14:24,350\n在台協會這個司徒文處長所說的他參加了2025年區域安全兵推的時候他說了一句話問你一句話為什麼台灣政府要反對核能請說明\n\n40\n00:14:25,407 --> 00:14:52,615\n我先報告委員兩件委員應該知道的事情請郭部長回答第一個委員應該知道我們的河山廠40年期限到了這是河管法的規定依照河管法40年期限到就必須處理這我告訴你啊這五月份要關啊OK這我已經告訴你答案了第二個委員應該知道的事情我們現在開始到20303032年之間我們除了多元發展綠電之外我們有六座大型的電廠以氣換煤在排\n\n41\n00:14:53,647 --> 00:15:18,706\n降低這個排碳更新設備放大他能量包括大嶺包括興達包括通宵包括台中包括林口包括協和這個委員都清楚的很好院長你如數家珍也表示你知道這個問題的嚴重性因為本席要告訴你要告訴你核子反應器的這個設施管制辦法站在你旁邊郭部長我非常敬佩他在經濟委員會他說\n\n42\n00:15:20,407 --> 00:15:44,324\n如果現在已經在立法院在討論那麼這個修法國民黨提案郭部長說如果大院通過經濟部跟台電會依照修法的這個方向去執行之那請教院長修法通過你會依照這個方向去執行之嗎\n\n43\n00:15:45,117 --> 00:15:54,916\n任何一個法案只要經過大院充分討論民主表決出來的結果行政院基本上支持非常感謝那送到行政院執行制的時候那你還會提復議嗎\n\n44\n00:15:56,752 --> 00:16:20,294\n我說他如果經過充分討論當然充分討論啊以前很多不是喔我們有113個委員不分藍綠白大家討論我們的看法以前我們真的沒有沒有沒有如果大院通過你的郭部長是這麼說您會不會這樣支持您說你願意那你會不會再提附議請說如果我們建立在共同的前提說充分討論民主的程序大院出來的法案\n\n45\n00:16:21,075 --> 00:16:45,338\n法律案預算案行政院應該是要接受的所以我們就會在這個法律的新的結構底下開始推演怎麼樣對國家最有利的方向我們也希望台灣的能源有新的展現新的展現因為我們很清楚的知道我們的能源確實因為我們蓬勃發展能源確實會不夠那我們要怎麼樣多元的一個開發這是非常的重要所以有一個重點\n\n46\n00:16:45,959 --> 00:17:03,664\n您說您會支持但是本席支持是原意的一個修法但是本席要請教也就是《環境基本法》的第23條我們的郭部長跟您也一樣說如果有新的技術能源你們會用開放的態度\n\n47\n00:17:04,844 --> 00:17:19,180\n但是你如果環境基本法抱著神主牌非核家園的神主牌你是永遠只是水巴縮縮根本不能做所以環境基本法本席也有提出將非核家園改為淨零家園你同意吧\n\n48\n00:17:19,881 --> 00:17:38,162\n非核家園在環境基本法當中並不是誰的神主牌是大院通過的法案好非常感謝你說不是神主牌我歡喜聽到那麼改為本席所提出的環境基本法第23條也就是說非核家園我們改為近鄰家園你同意吧\n\n49\n00:17:38,832 --> 00:17:57,109\n不論是非核或是淨零都是我們邁向的目標但是我聽到委員講淨零比過去您的同事講非碳我覺得好多了好很好謝謝你謝謝你我們一起加油我希望委員會討論送出來協商的時候希望得到行政院的一個支持謝謝接下來我本期要跟你討論\n\n50\n00:17:58,972 --> 00:18:24,899\n關稅的問題院長美國關稅政策他非常的詭辯所以大家說跟那個變臉一樣其實我不太喜歡講這句話因為我希望我們的產業是穩定的我知道整個中央政府地方政府大家都嚴正以待而且我們的官員也都很辛苦所以本期要請教我們正面臨的重塑整個全球經貿的一個樣態\n\n51\n00:18:25,979 --> 00:18:52,007\n在這樣的一個情況之下政府說4月11號我方代表團已經帶著我們基本的策略那麼也跟美國第一時間用視訊的會議所以要請教您預估什麼時候可以拿出成果那麼在這個成果的時候呢你會分段的來分享還是說要等到60天還是90天才會知道這個結果請教\n\n52\n00:18:54,673 --> 00:19:13,651\n我們非常抱歉我覺得是國際性的談判不是在這裡我們把自己像切香腸一樣一段一段切擺在這個跟切香腸沒有關係因為接下來本席要告訴你的是產業界未知的這個情況他們很緊張因為我們作為行政院就是要讓我們的人民\n\n53\n00:19:14,211 --> 00:19:26,200\n尤其是我們的產業他能夠安心所以你不回答本席的這個議題我也給予尊重但是我們還是要繼續討論這個議題本席請教對於美國採購對於美國的投資對於零關稅對於相關的貿易障礙哪一項是首先列入談判的一個項目很多的項目都是談判過程當中必須一一拿出來討論的\n\n54\n00:19:43,532 --> 00:20:02,892\n所以換句話說你還是沒辦法告訴我是哪一些是具體但是您曾經說過政府我也非常的希望我們希望能夠用BTA的這個精神跟美國來談那請教院長你認為我們達成BTA的機率有多大\n\n55\n00:20:03,766 --> 00:20:24,392\n我們當然希望用BTA的方式雙邊貿易的協定因為仿茂USMCA美加MORE的這個協定它是一個我們看到的結構跟基礎即使它執行的內容並不如它原來設定協定時候那樣的完整但是至少它是一個架構在那個架構底下如果可以有往BTA的方向去做雙方的談話\n\n56\n00:20:25,212 --> 00:20:43,370\n也許架構在精神可以在互相的做一些磋商非常好本席也希望如此但是我們有前策之見本席不希望重蹈覆轍因為之前我們也都說我們希望跟美國洽談這個BTA我們也做出了很多的貿易的讓步\n\n57\n00:20:44,731 --> 00:20:59,350\n但是最後都不了了之所以我還是充分建議大家加油我們希望政府要務實的穩定的來做談判以人民的利益為最優先而不是急著用話術來做宣傳\n\n58\n00:21:00,511 --> 00:21:06,553\n沒有非常好所以院長我想大家都很關心你下鄉去開講就針對於美國宣布的什麼電腦手機智慧型晶片這20種產品那豁免的對等關稅你還說這是強心劑但是美國川普又來一個回馬槍了他說他隨即又發文沒有任何的豁免\n\n59\n00:21:25,220 --> 00:21:50,473\n而且他說一週之內要宣布會端出半導體關稅的這個稅率那川普他說囉他說他希望想要在他自己國家裡頭來生產晶片跟半導體那麼請教院長在整個談判的資訊跟狀況到底是如何美國接下來他會宣布半導體或其他的電子產品增加關稅嗎請做說明\n\n60\n00:21:52,179 --> 00:22:14,346\n美國新的政策一直在宣布像今天他又有一個訊息出來說對汽車零組件可能也有另外一個新的思考所以表示你之前加強去講的講得太快了因為美國一直變再變再變表示我們有掌握到訊息對我方有利的我們會充分留起來用如果政策改變了我們就改變未來談判的策略跟我們的立場\n\n61\n00:22:14,906 --> 00:22:25,081\n很好接下來本期告訴你輝達宣布跟台積電在美投資要5000億的美元那麼未來我們是會預期台灣有更多的半導體跟產業會到美國請院長\n\n62\n00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:49,310\n好這個早上委員又有提到那我們有經過經濟部在做細部的分析是不是一定有時間讓部長來說我們的產業界會不會告訴我會不會就好院長這樣部長來回答報告委員這個命題我們有經過評估有評析回答他要投資五千億美金在美國他分成三個部分\n\n63\n00:22:49,770 --> 00:23:05,550\n本錢非常清楚所以請教會不會你們評估嘛一定會有評估會不會未來有我們更多的我們的產業量會移到美國去沒有他那個部分你告訴我會不會他那個部分大概我們台灣大概只有兩種公司會跟著去\n\n64\n00:23:07,432 --> 00:23:27,124\n做EMS的就是說做代工的包括報紙也有寫鴻海跟微創這個會過去另外一個就是台積電的封裝的部分他本來在美國是交給Amaco這個公司在做這個在美國講好了但是Amaco可能技術不夠\n\n65\n00:23:27,944 --> 00:23:54,227\n所以我們台灣的細品可能會去指導但是這個東西呢並沒有完全的被披露我們對這個個案的詳細的內容我們都有做一些比較因為沒有拿到手上但是這個部分如果我們台灣的廠商要去美國去投資的話那麼當然經濟部會可以關注那如果是屬於台灣技術的部分\n\n66\n00:23:55,047 --> 00:24:18,889\n如果是屬於台灣技術的部分我們一定會嚴守台灣的技術本位我們留在台灣不會過去院長您聽到部長所說的也是本席希望的我們國內的產業當然我們要跟世界接軌但是怎麼樣能夠保護我國國內產業的產業鏈不能斷這個是非常的重要因為產業等於是民生\n\n67\n00:24:19,930 --> 00:24:35,255\n固產業就等於是顧名聲所以在當時這個關稅風暴出來的時候本席就具體建議我們對外要談判加速談判對內要怎麼樣呢要紓困而且應對要快對不對\n\n68\n00:24:35,984 --> 00:25:01,372\n我們都有做到你們都有做到但是我告訴你在這樣的一個情況之下我們都非常的希望能夠要怎麼做也就剛才討論的產業我們要怎麼保護日本的首相他在昨天禮拜一的時候他告訴了議會表示日本不會因為倉促完成美國跟美國的關稅談判而做出妥協我們的立場是不是同樣請院長說明\n\n69\n00:25:02,432 --> 00:25:22,584\n我說談判的進行一定是爭取國家最大的利益就是不會為了談判妥協不犧牲國家人民的利益當然爭取國家最大的利益而要維護產業的國際競爭力謝謝接下來我們要討論這個貿易關稅的障礙的問題那麼請教院長美方最在意的是什麼我們的立場又是什麼關稅貿易障礙的部分我方的立場是什麼我們美國最在意的是什麼非關稅貿易障礙\n\n70\n00:25:32,082 --> 00:26:00,367\n基本上分為工業跟農業各有不同的議題在裡面那我們認為要基於雙方貿易的平衡跟公平性也有助於未來大家朝向一個BTA的方式來談有一些內容是可以在談判的時候互相拿出來做磋商的好一個互相拿出來磋商我告訴你在2025年各國的貿易談判這個貿易障礙的評估裡頭台灣我們自己台灣僅能夠進口是30個月以上\n\n71\n00:26:01,467 --> 00:26:16,492\n的這個牛而且角肉牛角肉也不能進嚴格的審查牛內臟那豬肉的部分特別是與國際標準不符的萊克多巴胺的一個檢驗方式都列在美國的貿易關稅的障礙裡頭在這樣的情況之下請教美豬美牛可能會因為關稅談判而鬆綁嗎\n\n72\n00:26:24,654 --> 00:26:39,365\n我們首先要把握的是國人的健康再來是我們國內的消費市場的習慣好所以我主張我們也必須要參考上國際的標準跟科學的根據我們必須用這個方式才能有利於談判\n\n73\n00:26:40,694 --> 00:27:04,607\n院長所以我告訴你本席告訴你我主張產品產地的標示不能成為貿易談判的籌碼因為2021年我們進口萊豬的時候對台灣的豬農跟消費者有做出承諾如果棄手當然沒有辦法接受的所以還有一個議題美方也希望能夠進口基改的食品\n\n74\n00:27:05,683 --> 00:27:30,978\n我們在教委會裡頭有通過這個基改的食品不能進到校園而且依照我們學校的衛生法的一個法律規定它是不准基改的東西為了孩童的安全孩童的安全是最底的底線絕對不容許有破洞所以本席要請教你的態度呢也就是基改的食品不能進到校園\n\n75\n00:27:32,814 --> 00:28:01,009\n還是剛剛的那句話我們國內有國內的法令我們有市場的習慣這個都是維護國人的安全但我們也要考慮到這個國際上的共同的標準跟有沒有科學的根據如果這個科學標準跟根據能夠再來討論的過程當中我們能夠堅持我們的立場也不會去違反國際的這種慣例的話那我們就能堅守住我們的道路院長你這麼說本席聽不是很清楚本想還是要告訴你清楚的立場\n\n76\n00:28:01,889 --> 00:28:28,670\n基於孩童的健康基改的食品一定不得進入到我們的校園這是我們的學校衛生法裡頭所規定的請你務必要執行徹底到位我知道我們的法律的規定之所在所以本席要告訴你昨天我也邀請了我們的這個經濟部非常感謝那麼也請聽了產業的這個心聲因為中部地區針對我們的工具機手工具機工具零組件扣件等試行車我們的這個\n\n77\n00:28:31,792 --> 00:28:56,078\n這個產業可以說是中部地區的一個胖修啦他的產值也是數兆以上但是昨天有一個答案人民不安心不知道未來是如何所以本期具體建議你的880億現在暫緩不管什麼原因但是本期還是建議積極的趕快拿出你們的方案出來其中有一點很重要大家都認為傳統產業中小企業是在於我們整個產業界的大概九成\n\n78\n00:29:01,499 --> 00:29:28,233\n勞動業也在這裡非常的重要重要所以本席要告訴你大家都認為政府偏重於AI科技將我們的船船似乎不到那麼重視那本席要具體建議一定要針對我們的傳統產業中小企業一定要好好的輔導執行到位設立一個專責的單一船口應變小組來協助產業\n\n79\n00:29:30,762 --> 00:29:44,806\n中小企業中小微企業都是一直是經濟部主管我們在今天的總預算當中編列了116億比過去都多我相信除了通案刪除的部分大概大院裡面也沒有刪除我們在880億裡面加了50億\n\n80\n00:29:47,887 --> 00:30:02,901\n院長880億裡頭你說的中小微企業50億你手拿那麼高你認為夠嗎本期認為不夠你必須要將這個數額來提高真正的照顧我們的中小企業嘛\n\n81\n00:30:03,677 --> 00:30:12,085\n因為年度預算有116億我們把它加了50億我們現在還在跟企業聆聽之後我們還在做最後的盤整會有可能會有可能880億一四十需要一四十需要再增加嗎再加碼嗎200億是研發的\n\n82\n00:30:39,175 --> 00:30:39,519\n好謝謝楊瓊英文資訊謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7029\t11613\t謝謝院長 本席邀請行政院院長麻煩請卓院長再次備詢\n21308\t39617\t杨委员好院长好本席首先今天要跟你分享也请你聆听一下我现在没有时间了时间在你们的手里一周八天一年六季你们是上帝而我的肋骨跟脊椎已经被你们通通收去我现在没有时间了\n40157\t54164\t我會在駕駛的時候睡覺看護的時候夢遊蹲馬桶的時候吃便當抽菸的時候抱小孩而你們在開會的時候數錢度假的時候數錢打拋的時候數錢其實根本不用數\n55265\t74765\t炸之機的牽管會直接通往你們家裡的保險箱我現在沒有時間了鬧鐘在你們的手裡但我不打算交出我手裡的電池我不打算交出我的脊椎我不打算交出我的孩子跟我自己那一點點抬頭看望天空的時間我不打算交出我的天空\n75345\t105085\t土地需要時間才能回臥毛蟲需要時間才能變成蝠蝶我需要時間才能呼吸您也需要時間才能認出鏡子裡頭字跡我相信這些字或許有一點刺眼有一點刺耳但是都是我們在前線勞工在過勞的困境當中看到政府沒有辦法有作為的時候他只能用詩詞用文字做最後沉痛的掙扎跟表白\n105766\t125323\t我希望政府能夠藉由這一首詩重新的來檢討勞動政策我也希望執政黨的官員們不要變成鄉賓socialist這是非常的重要過去執政黨號稱跟勞工團體站在一塊我們的前總統蔡英文小姐也說\n126184\t147481\t他勞工是民進黨心中最軟的一塊但是民進黨推動勞基法修惡法砍掉了七天假勞工低薪又過時貧富差距越來越大勞動的條件也越來越差這樣的狀況我看到我們的政府還是看不到作為到現在台灣已經變成過勞之島院長你覺得怎樣\n152489\t172567\t由在野黨來提醒執政黨9年提醒過去號稱的跟支持勞工的民進黨你不覺得有一點諷刺嗎因為在2023年的年總工時我們達到了2020小時為全球主要國家的第五高\n173708\t189638\t亞洲地區主要國家的第二高我們僅次於誰呢僅次於新加坡近三年的工時不斷的在增加台灣已經成為過勞之島院長我們要如何處理你覺得我們是過勞之島嗎請做說明\n192405\t209051\t兩個部分第一個所謂七天假並不是砍掉而是在實施週休二日之後他當時在前前前政府的時候就是這樣在設定馬總統的時候都是這樣在設定的所以七天假沒有所謂砍掉的問題現在是大家在評估說整個社會經濟進步的情況底下\n209571\t224022\t有人提出各種休假的方式但這個截然跟所謂七天假不相干另外我們的工時比較長因為我們計算的方式如果把部分工時也算在裡面的話我們其實是沒有那麼長的這個再請部長來做仔細的說明請稍等\n225168\t250494\t院長你說沒有砍掉七天架而且這也是不相關大家都聽到了我要告訴你本席具體數字告訴你公時可分為制度公時實際公時我們根據資料跟學者的同時我們來看數字台灣跟日韓來做比較法定的公時一樣單週是40個小時但是看是不比別人差但是最重要的差別是什麼\n251414\t279580\t是永薪假日韓國定的假日呢他分別是16天跟15天都比我們台灣的12天還要高特休的部分我們看到在整個年薪滿15年之前台灣的特休假的基本上我們也是少於日韓喔所以台灣的青年他出入職場的時候他是更過勞更痛苦在這樣的情況之下台灣的勞工加入出入加入職場的他的一個\n280640\t300860\t前兩年的一個時間點是多少公時是一千九百小時以上年資到三年到九年的部分甚至停滯在一千八百六十個小時所以它的時數都比日韓出入職場的還要高你要知道中小企業目前我們的平均的這個壽命是十三年\n301320\t321410\t年資15年後才能夠比較有這個特休的一個設計在這樣情況之下加上我們的國定假日被砍不還那根本就是在壓榨我們整個的年輕勞工所以這樣子不是過勞什麼才是過勞呢所以本席要在這邊說明減少勞工\n324331\t353081\t你們政府也一直在努力但是本是告訴你減少勞工也就是還勞工的七天假洪部長你記得洪委員嗎當時呢您也簽署了執政黨的委員也就是要怎麼樣降低工時所以院長在我們台灣面臨這樣子的一個過勞的情況甚至我們的年輕人青壯年的勞工的一個窘境他會影響到我們整個\n353921\t382620\t國家的一個勞動少子化以及經濟這是國家大計這是國安大計所以我們如果持續的低薪那低薪改變不了的時候我相信減少工時不就是我們應該作為改革的重點嗎所以部長在你之前在立法院回答的時候我很高興的聽到你支持勞工的工時降低您現在的主張是不是一樣的態度呢請院長說明\n384061\t393126\t請院長說明請院長說明因為這是部長院長您說明啊部長之前的說法跟現在一致我跟楊委員說明確實台灣的工時的問題我確實覺得有改善的空間\n402920\t426577\t我認為確實有改善的空間事實上這幾年這個政府其實也很努力的希望來提高薪資其實提高跟薪資跟降低工時也是有關係的因為就是希望能夠把薪資的提高讓一些我們一些勞工他可能不會因為他的薪資過低所以他必須被迫要來加班所以就你的本業我們要怎麼樣降低工時你的措施在哪裡請教你\n427498\t449612\t所以楊偉勇說明這幾年其實我們包括我們的基本工資其實一直在提升第二個其實我們現在會來提出關於薪資透明化的做法那薪資透明化其實也會有助於實質的薪資的提升其實事實上這兩年在薪資的提升上面是有成果的但我說實話我自己覺得當然還不夠請教工時的部分\n450452\t470857\t對 那我說薪資的提高跟工時之間是有關係的那至於剛剛楊委員可能講到的是國定假日的問題我自己覺得國定假日的問題從勞動部的角度來說我認為這是有討論的空間的非常感謝我們現在的洪部長還是支持以前洪委員的這個論點那所以本期要說明在我們的這個委員會裡頭\n472697\t496916\t已經國民黨所提案已經有整合出一個版本而且出了委員會就送到院會代協商是將這五天至少還有五天還五天那請教院長你會不會支持這樣的方案我剛剛跟委員報告過2016年的時候馬前總統那個時代請教院長你會不會支持這樣子的方案因為您現在是院長\n499099\t513561\t對這個國定假日如何去定義不要跟所謂七天假混在一起談不要混在一起啊那不要混在一起請問你們什麼時候要提出版本有沒有行政院版本大家都聽到了不要混在一起\n514422\t529736\t換句話說 再一次禮貌的請教你會不會支持目前在委員會所討論 紅部長都在現場委員會所討論的也就是將國定的假日五天假送到院會要來協商 請問行政院會不會支持\n530424\t547896\t我們有我們的想法但這個想法我的前提想法是想委員要跟大家一起說跟老公朋友一起說在馬前總統的時候就說到了那個條件就是實施週休二日之後就沒有所謂七天假不要把它混在一起談\n549238\t569058\t現在已經在立法院委員會已經送出了我想要請洪部長給院長報告一下我也希望得到行政院的一個支持我們真正的幫助我們的勞工這一個非常重要同時剛剛院長說了你們有你們的想法我也希望你們會不會送版本到立法院來請說明\n570939\t598515\t所以七天假或五天或幾天有沒有經過科學的評估到底對國內的產業影響多少對勞工的工時降低多少要經過科學的評估這個在委員會都充分的討論所以院長我請你用點心協助我們的勞工我相信你一定有這個心你好好地協助我們的勞工把院板送來 謝謝你接下來本席要討論的也就是我們世界潮流我們的能源政策\n599255\t623345\t部長 院長 台灣在2025年非核家園的目標下今年的五月份將會關閉我們的這個第三核能電廠的二號機那達到了非核家園在這樣的情況之下同時我們看到再生能源是來不及補足我們台灣電力的一個缺口那我們只能夠仰賴什麼呢再生能源來不及的時候就仰賴南美\n624145\t644015\t就仰賴我們的天然氣嘛發電但是這不僅違背了2050年的一個淨零碳排也可能可能會被課徵碳關稅也可能會被課徵喔所以在這樣的情況之下我們急迫的看到台電的員工很辛苦台電呢他累計的虧損將近4千億今年1月份他們的財報出來又增加了121億的虧損其中太陽能的虧損是5.8億\n654220\t671096\t風力是58億外購燃氣的部分是這個17億那唯一沒有缺的沒有虧的就是有盈餘7億多的核電換句話說未來還是會繼續虧這樣子的一個方向政策所以院長\n671816\t690124\t台電的虧損他應當最重要的是能源政策有問題因為這個數字已經告訴你了台電堅強還是要買高的綠電那這個是慘虧的原因那我們繼續來看到目前為止執政黨把發電平均1.12元最便宜的核電\n691405\t716237\t要廢棄不用了但是我們的燃煤跟燃氣的部分是2.5到3塊我們的綠電我們又看到光電風電要多少5塊到6塊半所以在這樣的情況之下有學者推估去年台電很辛苦台電背了一個黑鍋因為購入了火力發電跟風力發電以外以外的支出超過600億\n717665\t734755\t超過600億院長核電可以作為基載電力再生電源不行在這樣情況之下很多的國家考量到整個電力的一個穩定性而且又要不排碳的一個電力就有他們都有希望要保留核電\n735595\t750144\t那現在AI的算計它的電力的需求量又是非常非常高電力就等於是國力科技的巨頭以及先進的國家都開始在使用核電台灣背道而馳\n751084\t780120\t那麼沒有核電的計劃跟配套所以院長在氣候變遷的副總副召集人童子賢先生他也說了他說以一年用電三千億度來計算每一度如果差一塊錢那一年國家支出額外的多少三千億元三千億元所以他說他呼籲讓核電來幫忙吧他可以每一年替台灣省下N千億元\n781112\t807755\t所以院長在這樣子的情況之下又在這個會議當中不只童子仁先生吶喊我們的中研院的廖院長他也說未來的AI用電需求量可能無上限台灣的土地面積以及再生能源的總量它也有上限所以因此我們必須要考慮其他的能源能夠來因應未來的一個需求\n808456\t824994\t他说在过去德国因为他有两周缺了阳光跟缺了风所以他就向邻近的国家法国以核能为主要能源的来进口核电我们是不是应该也要效法\n826815\t850463\t這個德國的一個做法在這樣的考量之下我們更必須要將我們的能源安全能源成長以及台灣目前所需要的這些狀況納入整體性的一個評估所以院長在我們世界各國如此的作為我們是反逆的世界潮流還是要配合所以我們我也藉由美國前任的這個\n851423\t864350\t在台協會這個司徒文處長所說的他參加了2025年區域安全兵推的時候他說了一句話問你一句話為什麼台灣政府要反對核能請說明\n865407\t892615\t我先報告委員兩件委員應該知道的事情請郭部長回答第一個委員應該知道我們的河山廠40年期限到了這是河管法的規定依照河管法40年期限到就必須處理這我告訴你啊這五月份要關啊OK這我已經告訴你答案了第二個委員應該知道的事情我們現在開始到2030 3032年之間我們除了多元發展綠電之外我們有六座大型的電廠以氣換煤在排\n893647\t918706\t降低這個排碳更新設備放大他能量包括大嶺包括興達包括通宵包括台中包括林口包括協和這個委員都清楚的很好 院長你如數家珍也表示你知道這個問題的嚴重性因為本席要告訴你要告訴你核子反應器的這個設施管制辦法站在你旁邊郭部長我非常敬佩他在經濟委員會他說\n920407\t944324\t如果現在已經在立法院在討論那麼這個修法國民黨提案郭部長說如果大院通過經濟部跟台電會依照修法的這個方向去執行之那請教院長修法通過你會依照這個方向去執行之嗎\n945117\t954916\t任何一個法案只要經過大院充分討論民主表決出來的結果行政院基本上支持非常感謝那送到行政院執行制的時候那你還會提復議嗎\n956752\t980294\t我說他如果經過充分討論當然充分討論啊以前很多不是喔我們有113個委員不分藍綠白大家討論我們的看法以前我們真的沒有沒有沒有如果大院通過 你的郭部長是這麼說您會不會這樣支持 您說你願意那你會不會再提附議 請說如果我們建立在共同的前提說充分討論民主的程序大院出來的法案\n981075\t1005338\t法律案預算案行政院應該是要接受的所以我們就會在這個法律的新的結構底下開始推演怎麼樣對國家最有利的方向我們也希望台灣的能源有新的展現新的展現因為我們很清楚的知道我們的能源確實因為我們蓬勃發展能源確實會不夠那我們要怎麼樣多元的一個開發這是非常的重要所以有一個重點\n1005959\t1023664\t您說您會支持但是本席支持是原意的一個修法但是本席要請教也就是《環境基本法》的第23條我們的郭部長跟您也一樣說如果有新的技術能源你們會用開放的態度\n1024844\t1039180\t但是你如果環境基本法抱著神主牌非核家園的神主牌你是永遠只是水巴縮縮根本不能做所以環境基本法本席也有提出將非核家園改為淨零家園你同意吧\n1039881\t1058162\t非核家園在環境基本法當中並不是誰的神主牌是大院通過的法案好 非常感謝你說不是神主牌我歡喜聽到那麼改為本席所提出的環境基本法第23條也就是說非核家園我們改為近鄰家園你同意吧\n1058832\t1077109\t不論是非核或是淨零都是我們邁向的目標但是我聽到委員講淨零比過去您的同事講非碳我覺得好多了好很好謝謝你謝謝你我們一起加油我希望委員會討論送出來協商的時候希望得到行政院的一個支持謝謝接下來我本期要跟你討論\n1078972\t1104899\t關稅的問題 院長美國關稅政策他非常的詭辯所以大家說跟那個變臉一樣其實我不太喜歡講這句話因為我希望我們的產業是穩定的我知道整個中央政府地方政府大家都嚴正以待而且我們的官員也都很辛苦所以本期要請教我們正面臨的重塑整個全球經貿的一個樣態\n1105979\t1132007\t在這樣的一個情況之下政府說4月11號我方代表團已經帶著我們基本的策略那麼也跟美國第一時間用視訊的會議所以要請教您預估什麼時候可以拿出成果那麼在這個成果的時候呢你會分段的來分享還是說要等到60天還是90天才會知道這個結果請教\n1134673\t1153651\t我們非常抱歉我覺得是國際性的談判不是在這裡我們把自己像切香腸一樣一段一段切擺在這個跟切香腸沒有關係因為接下來本席要告訴你的是產業界未知的這個情況他們很緊張因為我們作為行政院就是要讓我們的人民\n1154211\t1166200\t尤其是我們的產業他能夠安心所以你不回答本席的這個議題我也給予尊重但是我們還是要繼續討論這個議題本席請教對於美國採購對於美國的投資對於零關稅對於相關的貿易障礙哪一項是首先列入談判的一個項目很多的項目都是談判過程當中必須一一拿出來討論的\n1183532\t1202892\t所以換句話說你還是沒辦法告訴我是哪一些是具體但是您曾經說過政府我也非常的希望我們希望能夠用BTA的這個精神跟美國來談那請教院長你認為我們達成BTA的機率有多大\n1203766\t1224392\t我們當然希望用BTA的方式雙邊貿易的協定因為仿茂USMCA美加MORE的這個協定它是一個我們看到的結構跟基礎即使它執行的內容並不如它原來設定協定時候那樣的完整但是至少它是一個架構在那個架構底下如果可以有往BTA的方向去做雙方的談話\n1225212\t1243370\t也許架構在 精神可以在互相的做一些磋商非常好 本席也希望如此但是我們有前策之見本席不希望重蹈覆轍因為之前我們也都說我們希望跟美國洽談這個BTA我們也做出了很多的貿易的讓步\n1244731\t1259350\t但是最後都不了了之所以我還是充分建議大家加油我們希望政府要務實的穩定的來做談判以人民的利益為最優先而不是急著用話術來做宣傳\n1260511\t1266553\t沒有非常好所以院長我想大家都很關心你下鄉去開講就針對於美國宣布的什麼電腦手機智慧型晶片這20種產品那豁免的對等關稅你還說這是強心劑但是美國川普又來一個回馬槍了他說他隨即又發文沒有任何的豁免\n1285220\t1310473\t而且他說一週之內要宣布會端出半導體關稅的這個稅率那川普他說囉他說他希望想要在他自己國家裡頭來生產晶片跟半導體那麼請教院長在整個談判的資訊跟狀況到底是如何美國接下來他會宣布半導體或其他的電子產品增加關稅嗎請做說明\n1312179\t1334346\t美國新的政策一直在宣布像今天他又有一個訊息出來說對汽車零組件可能也有另外一個新的思考所以表示你之前加強去講的講得太快了因為美國一直變再變再變表示我們有掌握到訊息對我方有利的我們會充分留起來用如果政策改變了我們就改變未來談判的策略跟我們的立場\n1334906\t1345081\t很好接下來本期告訴你輝達宣布跟台積電在美投資要5000億的美元那麼未來我們是會預期台灣有更多的半導體跟產業會到美國請院長\n1346960\t1369310\t好 這個早上委員又有提到那我們有經過經濟部在做細部的分析是不是一定有時間讓部長來說我們的產業界會不會 告訴我會不會就好 院長這樣部長來回答報告委員 這個命題我們有經過評估有評析 回答他要投資五千億美金在美國他分成三個部分\n1369770\t1385550\t本錢非常清楚所以請教會不會你們評估嘛一定會有評估會不會未來有我們更多的我們的產業量會移到美國去沒有他那個部分你告訴我會不會他那個部分大概我們台灣大概只有兩種公司會跟著去\n1387432\t1407124\t做EMS的就是說做代工的包括報紙也有寫鴻海跟微創這個會過去另外一個就是台積電的封裝的部分他本來在美國是交給Amaco這個公司在做這個在美國講好了但是Amaco可能技術不夠\n1407944\t1434227\t所以我們台灣的細品可能會去指導但是這個東西呢並沒有完全的被披露我們對這個個案的詳細的內容我們都有做一些比較因為沒有拿到手上但是這個部分如果我們台灣的廠商要去美國去投資的話那麼當然經濟部會可以關注那如果是屬於台灣技術的部分\n1435047\t1458889\t如果是屬於台灣技術的部分我們一定會嚴守台灣的技術本位我們留在台灣不會過去院長您聽到部長所說的也是本席希望的我們國內的產業當然我們要跟世界接軌但是怎麼樣能夠保護我國國內產業的產業鏈不能斷這個是非常的重要因為產業等於是民生\n1459930\t1475255\t固產業就等於是顧名聲所以在當時這個關稅風暴出來的時候本席就具體建議我們對外要談判加速談判對內要怎麼樣呢要紓困而且應對要快對不對\n1475984\t1501372\t我們都有做到你們都有做到但是我告訴你在這樣的一個情況之下我們都非常的希望能夠要怎麼做也就剛才討論的產業我們要怎麼保護日本的首相他在昨天禮拜一的時候他告訴了議會表示日本不會因為倉促完成美國跟美國的關稅談判而做出妥協我們的立場是不是同樣請院長說明\n1502432\t1522584\t我說 談判的進行一定是爭取國家最大的利益就是不會為了談判妥協不犧牲國家人民的利益當然 爭取國家最大的利益而要維護產業的國際競爭力謝謝接下來我們要討論這個貿易關稅的障礙的問題那麼請教院長美方最在意的是什麼我們的立場又是什麼關稅貿易障礙的部分我方的立場是什麼我們美國最在意的是什麼非關稅貿易障礙\n1532082\t1560367\t基本上分為工業跟農業各有不同的議題在裡面那我們認為要基於雙方貿易的平衡跟公平性也有助於未來大家朝向一個BTA的方式來談有一些內容是可以在談判的時候互相拿出來做磋商的好 一個互相拿出來磋商我告訴你在2025年各國的貿易談判這個貿易障礙的評估裡頭台灣我們自己台灣僅能夠進口是30個月以上\n1561467\t1576492\t的這個牛而且角肉牛角肉也不能進嚴格的審查牛內臟那豬肉的部分特別是與國際標準不符的萊克多巴胺的一個檢驗方式都列在美國的貿易關稅的障礙裡頭在這樣的情況之下請教美豬美牛可能會因為關稅談判而鬆綁嗎\n1584654\t1599365\t我們首先要把握的是國人的健康再來是我們國內的消費市場的習慣好 所以我主張我們也必須要參考上國際的標準跟科學的根據我們必須用這個方式才能有利於談判\n1600694\t1624607\t院長所以我告訴你本席告訴你我主張產品產地的標示不能成為貿易談判的籌碼因為2021年我們進口萊豬的時候對台灣的豬農跟消費者有做出承諾如果棄手當然沒有辦法接受的所以還有一個議題美方也希望能夠進口基改的食品\n1625683\t1650978\t我們在教委會裡頭有通過這個基改的食品不能進到校園而且依照我們學校的衛生法的一個法律規定它是不准基改的東西為了孩童的安全孩童的安全是最底的底線絕對不容許有破洞所以本席要請教你的態度呢也就是基改的食品不能進到校園\n1652814\t1681009\t還是剛剛的那句話我們國內有國內的法令我們有市場的習慣這個都是維護國人的安全但我們也要考慮到這個國際上的共同的標準跟有沒有科學的根據如果這個科學標準跟根據能夠再來討論的過程當中我們能夠堅持我們的立場也不會去違反國際的這種慣例的話那我們就能堅守住我們的道路院長你這麼說本席聽不是很清楚本想還是要告訴你清楚的立場\n1681889\t1708670\t基於孩童的健康基改的食品一定不得進入到我們的校園這是我們的學校衛生法裡頭所規定的請你務必要執行徹底到位我知道我們的法律的規定之所在所以本席要告訴你昨天我也邀請了我們的這個經濟部非常感謝那麼也請聽了產業的這個心聲因為中部地區針對我們的工具機手工具機工具零組件扣件等試行車我們的這個\n1711792\t1736078\t這個產業可以說是中部地區的一個胖修啦他的產值也是數兆以上但是昨天有一個答案人民不安心不知道未來是如何所以本期具體建議你的880億現在暫緩不管什麼原因但是本期還是建議積極的趕快拿出你們的方案出來其中有一點很重要大家都認為傳統產業中小企業是在於我們整個產業界的大概九成\n1741499\t1768233\t勞動業也在這裡非常的重要重要所以本席要告訴你大家都認為政府偏重於AI 科技將我們的船船似乎不到那麼重視那本席要具體建議一定要針對我們的傳統產業中小企業一定要好好的輔導執行到位設立一個專責的單一船口應變小組來協助產業\n1770762\t1784806\t中小企業中小微企業都是一直是經濟部主管我們在今天的總預算當中編列了116億比過去都多我相信除了通案刪除的部分大概大院裡面也沒有刪除我們在880億裡面加了50億\n1787887\t1802901\t院長880億裡頭你說的中小微企業50億你手拿那麼高你認為夠嗎本期認為不夠你必須要將這個數額來提高真正的照顧我們的中小企業嘛\n1803677\t1812085\t因為年度預算有116億我們把它加了50億我們現在還在跟企業聆聽之後我們還在做最後的盤整會有可能會有可能880億一四十需要一四十需要再增加嗎 再加碼嗎200億是研發的\n1839175\t1839519\t好 謝謝楊瓊英文資訊 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝院長 本席邀請行政院院長麻煩請卓院長再次備詢\n杨委员好院长好本席首先今天要跟你分享也请你聆听一下我现在没有时间了时间在你们的手里一周八天一年六季你们是上帝而我的肋骨跟脊椎已经被你们通通收去我现在没有时间了\n我會在駕駛的時候睡覺看護的時候夢遊蹲馬桶的時候吃便當抽菸的時候抱小孩而你們在開會的時候數錢度假的時候數錢打拋的時候數錢其實根本不用數\n炸之機的牽管會直接通往你們家裡的保險箱我現在沒有時間了鬧鐘在你們的手裡但我不打算交出我手裡的電池我不打算交出我的脊椎我不打算交出我的孩子跟我自己那一點點抬頭看望天空的時間我不打算交出我的天空\n土地需要時間才能回臥毛蟲需要時間才能變成蝠蝶我需要時間才能呼吸您也需要時間才能認出鏡子裡頭字跡我相信這些字或許有一點刺眼有一點刺耳但是都是我們在前線勞工在過勞的困境當中看到政府沒有辦法有作為的時候他只能用詩詞用文字做最後沉痛的掙扎跟表白\n我希望政府能夠藉由這一首詩重新的來檢討勞動政策我也希望執政黨的官員們不要變成鄉賓socialist這是非常的重要過去執政黨號稱跟勞工團體站在一塊我們的前總統蔡英文小姐也說\n他勞工是民進黨心中最軟的一塊但是民進黨推動勞基法修惡法砍掉了七天假勞工低薪又過時貧富差距越來越大勞動的條件也越來越差這樣的狀況我看到我們的政府還是看不到作為到現在台灣已經變成過勞之島院長你覺得怎樣\n由在野黨來提醒執政黨9年提醒過去號稱的跟支持勞工的民進黨你不覺得有一點諷刺嗎因為在2023年的年總工時我們達到了2020小時為全球主要國家的第五高\n亞洲地區主要國家的第二高我們僅次於誰呢僅次於新加坡近三年的工時不斷的在增加台灣已經成為過勞之島院長我們要如何處理你覺得我們是過勞之島嗎請做說明\n兩個部分第一個所謂七天假並不是砍掉而是在實施週休二日之後他當時在前前前政府的時候就是這樣在設定馬總統的時候都是這樣在設定的所以七天假沒有所謂砍掉的問題現在是大家在評估說整個社會經濟進步的情況底下\n有人提出各種休假的方式但這個截然跟所謂七天假不相干另外我們的工時比較長因為我們計算的方式如果把部分工時也算在裡面的話我們其實是沒有那麼長的這個再請部長來做仔細的說明請稍等\n院長你說沒有砍掉七天架而且這也是不相關大家都聽到了我要告訴你本席具體數字告訴你公時可分為制度公時實際公時我們根據資料跟學者的同時我們來看數字台灣跟日韓來做比較法定的公時一樣單週是40個小時但是看是不比別人差但是最重要的差別是什麼\n是永薪假日韓國定的假日呢他分別是16天跟15天都比我們台灣的12天還要高特休的部分我們看到在整個年薪滿15年之前台灣的特休假的基本上我們也是少於日韓喔所以台灣的青年他出入職場的時候他是更過勞更痛苦在這樣的情況之下台灣的勞工加入出入加入職場的他的一個\n前兩年的一個時間點是多少公時是一千九百小時以上年資到三年到九年的部分甚至停滯在一千八百六十個小時所以它的時數都比日韓出入職場的還要高你要知道中小企業目前我們的平均的這個壽命是十三年\n年資15年後才能夠比較有這個特休的一個設計在這樣情況之下加上我們的國定假日被砍不還那根本就是在壓榨我們整個的年輕勞工所以這樣子不是過勞什麼才是過勞呢所以本席要在這邊說明減少勞工\n你們政府也一直在努力但是本是告訴你減少勞工也就是還勞工的七天假洪部長你記得洪委員嗎當時呢您也簽署了執政黨的委員也就是要怎麼樣降低工時所以院長在我們台灣面臨這樣子的一個過勞的情況甚至我們的年輕人青壯年的勞工的一個窘境他會影響到我們整個\n國家的一個勞動少子化以及經濟這是國家大計這是國安大計所以我們如果持續的低薪那低薪改變不了的時候我相信減少工時不就是我們應該作為改革的重點嗎所以部長在你之前在立法院回答的時候我很高興的聽到你支持勞工的工時降低您現在的主張是不是一樣的態度呢請院長說明\n請院長說明請院長說明因為這是部長院長您說明啊部長之前的說法跟現在一致我跟楊委員說明確實台灣的工時的問題我確實覺得有改善的空間\n我認為確實有改善的空間事實上這幾年這個政府其實也很努力的希望來提高薪資其實提高跟薪資跟降低工時也是有關係的因為就是希望能夠把薪資的提高讓一些我們一些勞工他可能不會因為他的薪資過低所以他必須被迫要來加班所以就你的本業我們要怎麼樣降低工時你的措施在哪裡請教你\n所以楊偉勇說明這幾年其實我們包括我們的基本工資其實一直在提升第二個其實我們現在會來提出關於薪資透明化的做法那薪資透明化其實也會有助於實質的薪資的提升其實事實上這兩年在薪資的提升上面是有成果的但我說實話我自己覺得當然還不夠請教工時的部分\n對 那我說薪資的提高跟工時之間是有關係的那至於剛剛楊委員可能講到的是國定假日的問題我自己覺得國定假日的問題從勞動部的角度來說我認為這是有討論的空間的非常感謝我們現在的洪部長還是支持以前洪委員的這個論點那所以本期要說明在我們的這個委員會裡頭\n已經國民黨所提案已經有整合出一個版本而且出了委員會就送到院會代協商是將這五天至少還有五天還五天那請教院長你會不會支持這樣的方案我剛剛跟委員報告過2016年的時候馬前總統那個時代請教院長你會不會支持這樣子的方案因為您現在是院長\n對這個國定假日如何去定義不要跟所謂七天假混在一起談不要混在一起啊那不要混在一起請問你們什麼時候要提出版本有沒有行政院版本大家都聽到了不要混在一起\n換句話說 再一次禮貌的請教你會不會支持目前在委員會所討論 紅部長都在現場委員會所討論的也就是將國定的假日五天假送到院會要來協商 請問行政院會不會支持\n我們有我們的想法但這個想法我的前提想法是想委員要跟大家一起說跟老公朋友一起說在馬前總統的時候就說到了那個條件就是實施週休二日之後就沒有所謂七天假不要把它混在一起談\n現在已經在立法院委員會已經送出了我想要請洪部長給院長報告一下我也希望得到行政院的一個支持我們真正的幫助我們的勞工這一個非常重要同時剛剛院長說了你們有你們的想法我也希望你們會不會送版本到立法院來請說明\n所以七天假或五天或幾天有沒有經過科學的評估到底對國內的產業影響多少對勞工的工時降低多少要經過科學的評估這個在委員會都充分的討論所以院長我請你用點心協助我們的勞工我相信你一定有這個心你好好地協助我們的勞工把院板送來 謝謝你接下來本席要討論的也就是我們世界潮流我們的能源政策\n部長 院長 台灣在2025年非核家園的目標下今年的五月份將會關閉我們的這個第三核能電廠的二號機那達到了非核家園在這樣的情況之下同時我們看到再生能源是來不及補足我們台灣電力的一個缺口那我們只能夠仰賴什麼呢再生能源來不及的時候就仰賴南美\n就仰賴我們的天然氣嘛發電但是這不僅違背了2050年的一個淨零碳排也可能可能會被課徵碳關稅也可能會被課徵喔所以在這樣的情況之下我們急迫的看到台電的員工很辛苦台電呢他累計的虧損將近4千億今年1月份他們的財報出來又增加了121億的虧損其中太陽能的虧損是5.8億\n風力是58億外購燃氣的部分是這個17億那唯一沒有缺的沒有虧的就是有盈餘7億多的核電換句話說未來還是會繼續虧這樣子的一個方向政策所以院長\n台電的虧損他應當最重要的是能源政策有問題因為這個數字已經告訴你了台電堅強還是要買高的綠電那這個是慘虧的原因那我們繼續來看到目前為止執政黨把發電平均1.12元最便宜的核電\n要廢棄不用了但是我們的燃煤跟燃氣的部分是2.5到3塊我們的綠電我們又看到光電風電要多少5塊到6塊半所以在這樣的情況之下有學者推估去年台電很辛苦台電背了一個黑鍋因為購入了火力發電跟風力發電以外以外的支出超過600億\n超過600億院長核電可以作為基載電力再生電源不行在這樣情況之下很多的國家考量到整個電力的一個穩定性而且又要不排碳的一個電力就有他們都有希望要保留核電\n那現在AI的算計它的電力的需求量又是非常非常高電力就等於是國力科技的巨頭以及先進的國家都開始在使用核電台灣背道而馳\n那麼沒有核電的計劃跟配套所以院長在氣候變遷的副總副召集人童子賢先生他也說了他說以一年用電三千億度來計算每一度如果差一塊錢那一年國家支出額外的多少三千億元三千億元所以他說他呼籲讓核電來幫忙吧他可以每一年替台灣省下N千億元\n所以院長在這樣子的情況之下又在這個會議當中不只童子仁先生吶喊我們的中研院的廖院長他也說未來的AI用電需求量可能無上限台灣的土地面積以及再生能源的總量它也有上限所以因此我們必須要考慮其他的能源能夠來因應未來的一個需求\n他说在过去德国因为他有两周缺了阳光跟缺了风所以他就向邻近的国家法国以核能为主要能源的来进口核电我们是不是应该也要效法\n這個德國的一個做法在這樣的考量之下我們更必須要將我們的能源安全能源成長以及台灣目前所需要的這些狀況納入整體性的一個評估所以院長在我們世界各國如此的作為我們是反逆的世界潮流還是要配合所以我們我也藉由美國前任的這個\n在台協會這個司徒文處長所說的他參加了2025年區域安全兵推的時候他說了一句話問你一句話為什麼台灣政府要反對核能請說明\n我先報告委員兩件委員應該知道的事情請郭部長回答第一個委員應該知道我們的河山廠40年期限到了這是河管法的規定依照河管法40年期限到就必須處理這我告訴你啊這五月份要關啊OK這我已經告訴你答案了第二個委員應該知道的事情我們現在開始到2030 3032年之間我們除了多元發展綠電之外我們有六座大型的電廠以氣換煤在排\n降低這個排碳更新設備放大他能量包括大嶺包括興達包括通宵包括台中包括林口包括協和這個委員都清楚的很好 院長你如數家珍也表示你知道這個問題的嚴重性因為本席要告訴你要告訴你核子反應器的這個設施管制辦法站在你旁邊郭部長我非常敬佩他在經濟委員會他說\n如果現在已經在立法院在討論那麼這個修法國民黨提案郭部長說如果大院通過經濟部跟台電會依照修法的這個方向去執行之那請教院長修法通過你會依照這個方向去執行之嗎\n任何一個法案只要經過大院充分討論民主表決出來的結果行政院基本上支持非常感謝那送到行政院執行制的時候那你還會提復議嗎\n我說他如果經過充分討論當然充分討論啊以前很多不是喔我們有113個委員不分藍綠白大家討論我們的看法以前我們真的沒有沒有沒有如果大院通過 你的郭部長是這麼說您會不會這樣支持 您說你願意那你會不會再提附議 請說如果我們建立在共同的前提說充分討論民主的程序大院出來的法案\n法律案預算案行政院應該是要接受的所以我們就會在這個法律的新的結構底下開始推演怎麼樣對國家最有利的方向我們也希望台灣的能源有新的展現新的展現因為我們很清楚的知道我們的能源確實因為我們蓬勃發展能源確實會不夠那我們要怎麼樣多元的一個開發這是非常的重要所以有一個重點\n您說您會支持但是本席支持是原意的一個修法但是本席要請教也就是《環境基本法》的第23條我們的郭部長跟您也一樣說如果有新的技術能源你們會用開放的態度\n但是你如果環境基本法抱著神主牌非核家園的神主牌你是永遠只是水巴縮縮根本不能做所以環境基本法本席也有提出將非核家園改為淨零家園你同意吧\n非核家園在環境基本法當中並不是誰的神主牌是大院通過的法案好 非常感謝你說不是神主牌我歡喜聽到那麼改為本席所提出的環境基本法第23條也就是說非核家園我們改為近鄰家園你同意吧\n不論是非核或是淨零都是我們邁向的目標但是我聽到委員講淨零比過去您的同事講非碳我覺得好多了好很好謝謝你謝謝你我們一起加油我希望委員會討論送出來協商的時候希望得到行政院的一個支持謝謝接下來我本期要跟你討論\n關稅的問題 院長美國關稅政策他非常的詭辯所以大家說跟那個變臉一樣其實我不太喜歡講這句話因為我希望我們的產業是穩定的我知道整個中央政府地方政府大家都嚴正以待而且我們的官員也都很辛苦所以本期要請教我們正面臨的重塑整個全球經貿的一個樣態\n在這樣的一個情況之下政府說4月11號我方代表團已經帶著我們基本的策略那麼也跟美國第一時間用視訊的會議所以要請教您預估什麼時候可以拿出成果那麼在這個成果的時候呢你會分段的來分享還是說要等到60天還是90天才會知道這個結果請教\n我們非常抱歉我覺得是國際性的談判不是在這裡我們把自己像切香腸一樣一段一段切擺在這個跟切香腸沒有關係因為接下來本席要告訴你的是產業界未知的這個情況他們很緊張因為我們作為行政院就是要讓我們的人民\n尤其是我們的產業他能夠安心所以你不回答本席的這個議題我也給予尊重但是我們還是要繼續討論這個議題本席請教對於美國採購對於美國的投資對於零關稅對於相關的貿易障礙哪一項是首先列入談判的一個項目很多的項目都是談判過程當中必須一一拿出來討論的\n所以換句話說你還是沒辦法告訴我是哪一些是具體但是您曾經說過政府我也非常的希望我們希望能夠用BTA的這個精神跟美國來談那請教院長你認為我們達成BTA的機率有多大\n我們當然希望用BTA的方式雙邊貿易的協定因為仿茂USMCA美加MORE的這個協定它是一個我們看到的結構跟基礎即使它執行的內容並不如它原來設定協定時候那樣的完整但是至少它是一個架構在那個架構底下如果可以有往BTA的方向去做雙方的談話\n也許架構在 精神可以在互相的做一些磋商非常好 本席也希望如此但是我們有前策之見本席不希望重蹈覆轍因為之前我們也都說我們希望跟美國洽談這個BTA我們也做出了很多的貿易的讓步\n但是最後都不了了之所以我還是充分建議大家加油我們希望政府要務實的穩定的來做談判以人民的利益為最優先而不是急著用話術來做宣傳\n沒有非常好所以院長我想大家都很關心你下鄉去開講就針對於美國宣布的什麼電腦手機智慧型晶片這20種產品那豁免的對等關稅你還說這是強心劑但是美國川普又來一個回馬槍了他說他隨即又發文沒有任何的豁免\n而且他說一週之內要宣布會端出半導體關稅的這個稅率那川普他說囉他說他希望想要在他自己國家裡頭來生產晶片跟半導體那麼請教院長在整個談判的資訊跟狀況到底是如何美國接下來他會宣布半導體或其他的電子產品增加關稅嗎請做說明\n美國新的政策一直在宣布像今天他又有一個訊息出來說對汽車零組件可能也有另外一個新的思考所以表示你之前加強去講的講得太快了因為美國一直變再變再變表示我們有掌握到訊息對我方有利的我們會充分留起來用如果政策改變了我們就改變未來談判的策略跟我們的立場\n很好接下來本期告訴你輝達宣布跟台積電在美投資要5000億的美元那麼未來我們是會預期台灣有更多的半導體跟產業會到美國請院長\n好 這個早上委員又有提到那我們有經過經濟部在做細部的分析是不是一定有時間讓部長來說我們的產業界會不會 告訴我會不會就好 院長這樣部長來回答報告委員 這個命題我們有經過評估有評析 回答他要投資五千億美金在美國他分成三個部分\n本錢非常清楚所以請教會不會你們評估嘛一定會有評估會不會未來有我們更多的我們的產業量會移到美國去沒有他那個部分你告訴我會不會他那個部分大概我們台灣大概只有兩種公司會跟著去\n做EMS的就是說做代工的包括報紙也有寫鴻海跟微創這個會過去另外一個就是台積電的封裝的部分他本來在美國是交給Amaco這個公司在做這個在美國講好了但是Amaco可能技術不夠\n所以我們台灣的細品可能會去指導但是這個東西呢並沒有完全的被披露我們對這個個案的詳細的內容我們都有做一些比較因為沒有拿到手上但是這個部分如果我們台灣的廠商要去美國去投資的話那麼當然經濟部會可以關注那如果是屬於台灣技術的部分\n如果是屬於台灣技術的部分我們一定會嚴守台灣的技術本位我們留在台灣不會過去院長您聽到部長所說的也是本席希望的我們國內的產業當然我們要跟世界接軌但是怎麼樣能夠保護我國國內產業的產業鏈不能斷這個是非常的重要因為產業等於是民生\n固產業就等於是顧名聲所以在當時這個關稅風暴出來的時候本席就具體建議我們對外要談判加速談判對內要怎麼樣呢要紓困而且應對要快對不對\n我們都有做到你們都有做到但是我告訴你在這樣的一個情況之下我們都非常的希望能夠要怎麼做也就剛才討論的產業我們要怎麼保護日本的首相他在昨天禮拜一的時候他告訴了議會表示日本不會因為倉促完成美國跟美國的關稅談判而做出妥協我們的立場是不是同樣請院長說明\n我說 談判的進行一定是爭取國家最大的利益就是不會為了談判妥協不犧牲國家人民的利益當然 爭取國家最大的利益而要維護產業的國際競爭力謝謝接下來我們要討論這個貿易關稅的障礙的問題那麼請教院長美方最在意的是什麼我們的立場又是什麼關稅貿易障礙的部分我方的立場是什麼我們美國最在意的是什麼非關稅貿易障礙\n基本上分為工業跟農業各有不同的議題在裡面那我們認為要基於雙方貿易的平衡跟公平性也有助於未來大家朝向一個BTA的方式來談有一些內容是可以在談判的時候互相拿出來做磋商的好 一個互相拿出來磋商我告訴你在2025年各國的貿易談判這個貿易障礙的評估裡頭台灣我們自己台灣僅能夠進口是30個月以上\n的這個牛而且角肉牛角肉也不能進嚴格的審查牛內臟那豬肉的部分特別是與國際標準不符的萊克多巴胺的一個檢驗方式都列在美國的貿易關稅的障礙裡頭在這樣的情況之下請教美豬美牛可能會因為關稅談判而鬆綁嗎\n我們首先要把握的是國人的健康再來是我們國內的消費市場的習慣好 所以我主張我們也必須要參考上國際的標準跟科學的根據我們必須用這個方式才能有利於談判\n院長所以我告訴你本席告訴你我主張產品產地的標示不能成為貿易談判的籌碼因為2021年我們進口萊豬的時候對台灣的豬農跟消費者有做出承諾如果棄手當然沒有辦法接受的所以還有一個議題美方也希望能夠進口基改的食品\n我們在教委會裡頭有通過這個基改的食品不能進到校園而且依照我們學校的衛生法的一個法律規定它是不准基改的東西為了孩童的安全孩童的安全是最底的底線絕對不容許有破洞所以本席要請教你的態度呢也就是基改的食品不能進到校園\n還是剛剛的那句話我們國內有國內的法令我們有市場的習慣這個都是維護國人的安全但我們也要考慮到這個國際上的共同的標準跟有沒有科學的根據如果這個科學標準跟根據能夠再來討論的過程當中我們能夠堅持我們的立場也不會去違反國際的這種慣例的話那我們就能堅守住我們的道路院長你這麼說本席聽不是很清楚本想還是要告訴你清楚的立場\n基於孩童的健康基改的食品一定不得進入到我們的校園這是我們的學校衛生法裡頭所規定的請你務必要執行徹底到位我知道我們的法律的規定之所在所以本席要告訴你昨天我也邀請了我們的這個經濟部非常感謝那麼也請聽了產業的這個心聲因為中部地區針對我們的工具機手工具機工具零組件扣件等試行車我們的這個\n這個產業可以說是中部地區的一個胖修啦他的產值也是數兆以上但是昨天有一個答案人民不安心不知道未來是如何所以本期具體建議你的880億現在暫緩不管什麼原因但是本期還是建議積極的趕快拿出你們的方案出來其中有一點很重要大家都認為傳統產業中小企業是在於我們整個產業界的大概九成\n勞動業也在這裡非常的重要重要所以本席要告訴你大家都認為政府偏重於AI 科技將我們的船船似乎不到那麼重視那本席要具體建議一定要針對我們的傳統產業中小企業一定要好好的輔導執行到位設立一個專責的單一船口應變小組來協助產業\n中小企業中小微企業都是一直是經濟部主管我們在今天的總預算當中編列了116億比過去都多我相信除了通案刪除的部分大概大院裡面也沒有刪除我們在880億裡面加了50億\n院長880億裡頭你說的中小微企業50億你手拿那麼高你認為夠嗎本期認為不夠你必須要將這個數額來提高真正的照顧我們的中小企業嘛\n因為年度預算有116億我們把它加了50億我們現在還在跟企業聆聽之後我們還在做最後的盤整會有可能會有可能880億一四十需要一四十需要再增加嗎 再加碼嗎200億是研發的\n好 謝謝楊瓊英文資訊 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.029 --> 00:11.613\n謝謝院長本席邀請行政院院長麻煩請卓院長再次備詢\n\n00:21.308 --> 00:39.617\n杨委员好院长好本席首先今天要跟你分享也请你聆听一下我现在没有时间了时间在你们的手里一周八天一年六季你们是上帝而我的肋骨跟脊椎已经被你们通通收去我现在没有时间了\n\n00:40.157 --> 00:54.164\n我會在駕駛的時候睡覺看護的時候夢遊蹲馬桶的時候吃便當抽菸的時候抱小孩而你們在開會的時候數錢度假的時候數錢打拋的時候數錢其實根本不用數\n\n00:55.265 --> 01:14.765\n炸之機的牽管會直接通往你們家裡的保險箱我現在沒有時間了鬧鐘在你們的手裡但我不打算交出我手裡的電池我不打算交出我的脊椎我不打算交出我的孩子跟我自己那一點點抬頭看望天空的時間我不打算交出我的天空\n\n01:15.345 --> 01:45.085\n土地需要時間才能回臥毛蟲需要時間才能變成蝠蝶我需要時間才能呼吸您也需要時間才能認出鏡子裡頭字跡我相信這些字或許有一點刺眼有一點刺耳但是都是我們在前線勞工在過勞的困境當中看到政府沒有辦法有作為的時候他只能用詩詞用文字做最後沉痛的掙扎跟表白\n\n01:45.766 --> 02:05.323\n我希望政府能夠藉由這一首詩重新的來檢討勞動政策我也希望執政黨的官員們不要變成鄉賓socialist這是非常的重要過去執政黨號稱跟勞工團體站在一塊我們的前總統蔡英文小姐也說\n\n02:06.184 --> 02:27.481\n他勞工是民進黨心中最軟的一塊但是民進黨推動勞基法修惡法砍掉了七天假勞工低薪又過時貧富差距越來越大勞動的條件也越來越差這樣的狀況我看到我們的政府還是看不到作為到現在台灣已經變成過勞之島院長你覺得怎樣\n\n02:32.489 --> 02:52.567\n由在野黨來提醒執政黨9年提醒過去號稱的跟支持勞工的民進黨你不覺得有一點諷刺嗎因為在2023年的年總工時我們達到了2020小時為全球主要國家的第五高\n\n02:53.708 --> 03:09.638\n亞洲地區主要國家的第二高我們僅次於誰呢僅次於新加坡近三年的工時不斷的在增加台灣已經成為過勞之島院長我們要如何處理你覺得我們是過勞之島嗎請做說明\n\n03:12.405 --> 03:29.051\n兩個部分第一個所謂七天假並不是砍掉而是在實施週休二日之後他當時在前前前政府的時候就是這樣在設定馬總統的時候都是這樣在設定的所以七天假沒有所謂砍掉的問題現在是大家在評估說整個社會經濟進步的情況底下\n\n03:29.571 --> 03:44.022\n有人提出各種休假的方式但這個截然跟所謂七天假不相干另外我們的工時比較長因為我們計算的方式如果把部分工時也算在裡面的話我們其實是沒有那麼長的這個再請部長來做仔細的說明請稍等\n\n03:45.168 --> 04:10.494\n院長你說沒有砍掉七天架而且這也是不相關大家都聽到了我要告訴你本席具體數字告訴你公時可分為制度公時實際公時我們根據資料跟學者的同時我們來看數字台灣跟日韓來做比較法定的公時一樣單週是40個小時但是看是不比別人差但是最重要的差別是什麼\n\n04:11.414 --> 04:39.580\n是永薪假日韓國定的假日呢他分別是16天跟15天都比我們台灣的12天還要高特休的部分我們看到在整個年薪滿15年之前台灣的特休假的基本上我們也是少於日韓喔所以台灣的青年他出入職場的時候他是更過勞更痛苦在這樣的情況之下台灣的勞工加入出入加入職場的他的一個\n\n04:40.640 --> 05:00.860\n前兩年的一個時間點是多少公時是一千九百小時以上年資到三年到九年的部分甚至停滯在一千八百六十個小時所以它的時數都比日韓出入職場的還要高你要知道中小企業目前我們的平均的這個壽命是十三年\n\n05:01.320 --> 05:21.410\n年資15年後才能夠比較有這個特休的一個設計在這樣情況之下加上我們的國定假日被砍不還那根本就是在壓榨我們整個的年輕勞工所以這樣子不是過勞什麼才是過勞呢所以本席要在這邊說明減少勞工\n\n05:24.331 --> 05:53.081\n你們政府也一直在努力但是本是告訴你減少勞工也就是還勞工的七天假洪部長你記得洪委員嗎當時呢您也簽署了執政黨的委員也就是要怎麼樣降低工時所以院長在我們台灣面臨這樣子的一個過勞的情況甚至我們的年輕人青壯年的勞工的一個窘境他會影響到我們整個\n\n05:53.921 --> 06:22.620\n國家的一個勞動少子化以及經濟這是國家大計這是國安大計所以我們如果持續的低薪那低薪改變不了的時候我相信減少工時不就是我們應該作為改革的重點嗎所以部長在你之前在立法院回答的時候我很高興的聽到你支持勞工的工時降低您現在的主張是不是一樣的態度呢請院長說明\n\n06:24.061 --> 06:33.126\n請院長說明請院長說明因為這是部長院長您說明啊部長之前的說法跟現在一致我跟楊委員說明確實台灣的工時的問題我確實覺得有改善的空間\n\n06:42.920 --> 07:06.577\n我認為確實有改善的空間事實上這幾年這個政府其實也很努力的希望來提高薪資其實提高跟薪資跟降低工時也是有關係的因為就是希望能夠把薪資的提高讓一些我們一些勞工他可能不會因為他的薪資過低所以他必須被迫要來加班所以就你的本業我們要怎麼樣降低工時你的措施在哪裡請教你\n\n07:07.498 --> 07:29.612\n所以楊偉勇說明這幾年其實我們包括我們的基本工資其實一直在提升第二個其實我們現在會來提出關於薪資透明化的做法那薪資透明化其實也會有助於實質的薪資的提升其實事實上這兩年在薪資的提升上面是有成果的但我說實話我自己覺得當然還不夠請教工時的部分\n\n07:30.452 --> 07:50.857\n對那我說薪資的提高跟工時之間是有關係的那至於剛剛楊委員可能講到的是國定假日的問題我自己覺得國定假日的問題從勞動部的角度來說我認為這是有討論的空間的非常感謝我們現在的洪部長還是支持以前洪委員的這個論點那所以本期要說明在我們的這個委員會裡頭\n\n07:52.697 --> 08:16.916\n已經國民黨所提案已經有整合出一個版本而且出了委員會就送到院會代協商是將這五天至少還有五天還五天那請教院長你會不會支持這樣的方案我剛剛跟委員報告過2016年的時候馬前總統那個時代請教院長你會不會支持這樣子的方案因為您現在是院長\n\n08:19.099 --> 08:33.561\n對這個國定假日如何去定義不要跟所謂七天假混在一起談不要混在一起啊那不要混在一起請問你們什麼時候要提出版本有沒有行政院版本大家都聽到了不要混在一起\n\n08:34.422 --> 08:49.736\n換句話說再一次禮貌的請教你會不會支持目前在委員會所討論紅部長都在現場委員會所討論的也就是將國定的假日五天假送到院會要來協商請問行政院會不會支持\n\n08:50.424 --> 09:07.896\n我們有我們的想法但這個想法我的前提想法是想委員要跟大家一起說跟老公朋友一起說在馬前總統的時候就說到了那個條件就是實施週休二日之後就沒有所謂七天假不要把它混在一起談\n\n09:09.238 --> 09:29.058\n現在已經在立法院委員會已經送出了我想要請洪部長給院長報告一下我也希望得到行政院的一個支持我們真正的幫助我們的勞工這一個非常重要同時剛剛院長說了你們有你們的想法我也希望你們會不會送版本到立法院來請說明\n\n09:30.939 --> 09:58.515\n所以七天假或五天或幾天有沒有經過科學的評估到底對國內的產業影響多少對勞工的工時降低多少要經過科學的評估這個在委員會都充分的討論所以院長我請你用點心協助我們的勞工我相信你一定有這個心你好好地協助我們的勞工把院板送來謝謝你接下來本席要討論的也就是我們世界潮流我們的能源政策\n\n09:59.255 --> 10:23.345\n部長院長台灣在2025年非核家園的目標下今年的五月份將會關閉我們的這個第三核能電廠的二號機那達到了非核家園在這樣的情況之下同時我們看到再生能源是來不及補足我們台灣電力的一個缺口那我們只能夠仰賴什麼呢再生能源來不及的時候就仰賴南美\n\n10:24.145 --> 10:44.015\n就仰賴我們的天然氣嘛發電但是這不僅違背了2050年的一個淨零碳排也可能可能會被課徵碳關稅也可能會被課徵喔所以在這樣的情況之下我們急迫的看到台電的員工很辛苦台電呢他累計的虧損將近4千億今年1月份他們的財報出來又增加了121億的虧損其中太陽能的虧損是5.8億\n\n10:54.220 --> 11:11.096\n風力是58億外購燃氣的部分是這個17億那唯一沒有缺的沒有虧的就是有盈餘7億多的核電換句話說未來還是會繼續虧這樣子的一個方向政策所以院長\n\n11:11.816 --> 11:30.124\n台電的虧損他應當最重要的是能源政策有問題因為這個數字已經告訴你了台電堅強還是要買高的綠電那這個是慘虧的原因那我們繼續來看到目前為止執政黨把發電平均1.12元最便宜的核電\n\n11:31.405 --> 11:56.237\n要廢棄不用了但是我們的燃煤跟燃氣的部分是2.5到3塊我們的綠電我們又看到光電風電要多少5塊到6塊半所以在這樣的情況之下有學者推估去年台電很辛苦台電背了一個黑鍋因為購入了火力發電跟風力發電以外以外的支出超過600億\n\n11:57.665 --> 12:14.755\n超過600億院長核電可以作為基載電力再生電源不行在這樣情況之下很多的國家考量到整個電力的一個穩定性而且又要不排碳的一個電力就有他們都有希望要保留核電\n\n12:15.595 --> 12:30.144\n那現在AI的算計它的電力的需求量又是非常非常高電力就等於是國力科技的巨頭以及先進的國家都開始在使用核電台灣背道而馳\n\n12:31.084 --> 13:00.120\n那麼沒有核電的計劃跟配套所以院長在氣候變遷的副總副召集人童子賢先生他也說了他說以一年用電三千億度來計算每一度如果差一塊錢那一年國家支出額外的多少三千億元三千億元所以他說他呼籲讓核電來幫忙吧他可以每一年替台灣省下N千億元\n\n13:01.112 --> 13:27.755\n所以院長在這樣子的情況之下又在這個會議當中不只童子仁先生吶喊我們的中研院的廖院長他也說未來的AI用電需求量可能無上限台灣的土地面積以及再生能源的總量它也有上限所以因此我們必須要考慮其他的能源能夠來因應未來的一個需求\n\n13:28.456 --> 13:44.994\n他说在过去德国因为他有两周缺了阳光跟缺了风所以他就向邻近的国家法国以核能为主要能源的来进口核电我们是不是应该也要效法\n\n13:46.815 --> 14:10.463\n這個德國的一個做法在這樣的考量之下我們更必須要將我們的能源安全能源成長以及台灣目前所需要的這些狀況納入整體性的一個評估所以院長在我們世界各國如此的作為我們是反逆的世界潮流還是要配合所以我們我也藉由美國前任的這個\n\n14:11.423 --> 14:24.350\n在台協會這個司徒文處長所說的他參加了2025年區域安全兵推的時候他說了一句話問你一句話為什麼台灣政府要反對核能請說明\n\n14:25.407 --> 14:52.615\n我先報告委員兩件委員應該知道的事情請郭部長回答第一個委員應該知道我們的河山廠40年期限到了這是河管法的規定依照河管法40年期限到就必須處理這我告訴你啊這五月份要關啊OK這我已經告訴你答案了第二個委員應該知道的事情我們現在開始到20303032年之間我們除了多元發展綠電之外我們有六座大型的電廠以氣換煤在排\n\n14:53.647 --> 15:18.706\n降低這個排碳更新設備放大他能量包括大嶺包括興達包括通宵包括台中包括林口包括協和這個委員都清楚的很好院長你如數家珍也表示你知道這個問題的嚴重性因為本席要告訴你要告訴你核子反應器的這個設施管制辦法站在你旁邊郭部長我非常敬佩他在經濟委員會他說\n\n15:20.407 --> 15:44.324\n如果現在已經在立法院在討論那麼這個修法國民黨提案郭部長說如果大院通過經濟部跟台電會依照修法的這個方向去執行之那請教院長修法通過你會依照這個方向去執行之嗎\n\n15:45.117 --> 15:54.916\n任何一個法案只要經過大院充分討論民主表決出來的結果行政院基本上支持非常感謝那送到行政院執行制的時候那你還會提復議嗎\n\n15:56.752 --> 16:20.294\n我說他如果經過充分討論當然充分討論啊以前很多不是喔我們有113個委員不分藍綠白大家討論我們的看法以前我們真的沒有沒有沒有如果大院通過你的郭部長是這麼說您會不會這樣支持您說你願意那你會不會再提附議請說如果我們建立在共同的前提說充分討論民主的程序大院出來的法案\n\n16:21.075 --> 16:45.338\n法律案預算案行政院應該是要接受的所以我們就會在這個法律的新的結構底下開始推演怎麼樣對國家最有利的方向我們也希望台灣的能源有新的展現新的展現因為我們很清楚的知道我們的能源確實因為我們蓬勃發展能源確實會不夠那我們要怎麼樣多元的一個開發這是非常的重要所以有一個重點\n\n16:45.959 --> 17:03.664\n您說您會支持但是本席支持是原意的一個修法但是本席要請教也就是《環境基本法》的第23條我們的郭部長跟您也一樣說如果有新的技術能源你們會用開放的態度\n\n17:04.844 --> 17:19.180\n但是你如果環境基本法抱著神主牌非核家園的神主牌你是永遠只是水巴縮縮根本不能做所以環境基本法本席也有提出將非核家園改為淨零家園你同意吧\n\n17:19.881 --> 17:38.162\n非核家園在環境基本法當中並不是誰的神主牌是大院通過的法案好非常感謝你說不是神主牌我歡喜聽到那麼改為本席所提出的環境基本法第23條也就是說非核家園我們改為近鄰家園你同意吧\n\n17:38.832 --> 17:57.109\n不論是非核或是淨零都是我們邁向的目標但是我聽到委員講淨零比過去您的同事講非碳我覺得好多了好很好謝謝你謝謝你我們一起加油我希望委員會討論送出來協商的時候希望得到行政院的一個支持謝謝接下來我本期要跟你討論\n\n17:58.972 --> 18:24.899\n關稅的問題院長美國關稅政策他非常的詭辯所以大家說跟那個變臉一樣其實我不太喜歡講這句話因為我希望我們的產業是穩定的我知道整個中央政府地方政府大家都嚴正以待而且我們的官員也都很辛苦所以本期要請教我們正面臨的重塑整個全球經貿的一個樣態\n\n18:25.979 --> 18:52.007\n在這樣的一個情況之下政府說4月11號我方代表團已經帶著我們基本的策略那麼也跟美國第一時間用視訊的會議所以要請教您預估什麼時候可以拿出成果那麼在這個成果的時候呢你會分段的來分享還是說要等到60天還是90天才會知道這個結果請教\n\n18:54.673 --> 19:13.651\n我們非常抱歉我覺得是國際性的談判不是在這裡我們把自己像切香腸一樣一段一段切擺在這個跟切香腸沒有關係因為接下來本席要告訴你的是產業界未知的這個情況他們很緊張因為我們作為行政院就是要讓我們的人民\n\n19:14.211 --> 19:26.200\n尤其是我們的產業他能夠安心所以你不回答本席的這個議題我也給予尊重但是我們還是要繼續討論這個議題本席請教對於美國採購對於美國的投資對於零關稅對於相關的貿易障礙哪一項是首先列入談判的一個項目很多的項目都是談判過程當中必須一一拿出來討論的\n\n19:43.532 --> 20:02.892\n所以換句話說你還是沒辦法告訴我是哪一些是具體但是您曾經說過政府我也非常的希望我們希望能夠用BTA的這個精神跟美國來談那請教院長你認為我們達成BTA的機率有多大\n\n20:03.766 --> 20:24.392\n我們當然希望用BTA的方式雙邊貿易的協定因為仿茂USMCA美加MORE的這個協定它是一個我們看到的結構跟基礎即使它執行的內容並不如它原來設定協定時候那樣的完整但是至少它是一個架構在那個架構底下如果可以有往BTA的方向去做雙方的談話\n\n20:25.212 --> 20:43.370\n也許架構在精神可以在互相的做一些磋商非常好本席也希望如此但是我們有前策之見本席不希望重蹈覆轍因為之前我們也都說我們希望跟美國洽談這個BTA我們也做出了很多的貿易的讓步\n\n20:44.731 --> 20:59.350\n但是最後都不了了之所以我還是充分建議大家加油我們希望政府要務實的穩定的來做談判以人民的利益為最優先而不是急著用話術來做宣傳\n\n21:00.511 --> 21:06.553\n沒有非常好所以院長我想大家都很關心你下鄉去開講就針對於美國宣布的什麼電腦手機智慧型晶片這20種產品那豁免的對等關稅你還說這是強心劑但是美國川普又來一個回馬槍了他說他隨即又發文沒有任何的豁免\n\n21:25.220 --> 21:50.473\n而且他說一週之內要宣布會端出半導體關稅的這個稅率那川普他說囉他說他希望想要在他自己國家裡頭來生產晶片跟半導體那麼請教院長在整個談判的資訊跟狀況到底是如何美國接下來他會宣布半導體或其他的電子產品增加關稅嗎請做說明\n\n21:52.179 --> 22:14.346\n美國新的政策一直在宣布像今天他又有一個訊息出來說對汽車零組件可能也有另外一個新的思考所以表示你之前加強去講的講得太快了因為美國一直變再變再變表示我們有掌握到訊息對我方有利的我們會充分留起來用如果政策改變了我們就改變未來談判的策略跟我們的立場\n\n22:14.906 --> 22:25.081\n很好接下來本期告訴你輝達宣布跟台積電在美投資要5000億的美元那麼未來我們是會預期台灣有更多的半導體跟產業會到美國請院長\n\n22:26.960 --> 22:49.310\n好這個早上委員又有提到那我們有經過經濟部在做細部的分析是不是一定有時間讓部長來說我們的產業界會不會告訴我會不會就好院長這樣部長來回答報告委員這個命題我們有經過評估有評析回答他要投資五千億美金在美國他分成三個部分\n\n22:49.770 --> 23:05.550\n本錢非常清楚所以請教會不會你們評估嘛一定會有評估會不會未來有我們更多的我們的產業量會移到美國去沒有他那個部分你告訴我會不會他那個部分大概我們台灣大概只有兩種公司會跟著去\n\n23:07.432 --> 23:27.124\n做EMS的就是說做代工的包括報紙也有寫鴻海跟微創這個會過去另外一個就是台積電的封裝的部分他本來在美國是交給Amaco這個公司在做這個在美國講好了但是Amaco可能技術不夠\n\n23:27.944 --> 23:54.227\n所以我們台灣的細品可能會去指導但是這個東西呢並沒有完全的被披露我們對這個個案的詳細的內容我們都有做一些比較因為沒有拿到手上但是這個部分如果我們台灣的廠商要去美國去投資的話那麼當然經濟部會可以關注那如果是屬於台灣技術的部分\n\n23:55.047 --> 24:18.889\n如果是屬於台灣技術的部分我們一定會嚴守台灣的技術本位我們留在台灣不會過去院長您聽到部長所說的也是本席希望的我們國內的產業當然我們要跟世界接軌但是怎麼樣能夠保護我國國內產業的產業鏈不能斷這個是非常的重要因為產業等於是民生\n\n24:19.930 --> 24:35.255\n固產業就等於是顧名聲所以在當時這個關稅風暴出來的時候本席就具體建議我們對外要談判加速談判對內要怎麼樣呢要紓困而且應對要快對不對\n\n24:35.984 --> 25:01.372\n我們都有做到你們都有做到但是我告訴你在這樣的一個情況之下我們都非常的希望能夠要怎麼做也就剛才討論的產業我們要怎麼保護日本的首相他在昨天禮拜一的時候他告訴了議會表示日本不會因為倉促完成美國跟美國的關稅談判而做出妥協我們的立場是不是同樣請院長說明\n\n25:02.432 --> 25:22.584\n我說談判的進行一定是爭取國家最大的利益就是不會為了談判妥協不犧牲國家人民的利益當然爭取國家最大的利益而要維護產業的國際競爭力謝謝接下來我們要討論這個貿易關稅的障礙的問題那麼請教院長美方最在意的是什麼我們的立場又是什麼關稅貿易障礙的部分我方的立場是什麼我們美國最在意的是什麼非關稅貿易障礙\n\n25:32.082 --> 26:00.367\n基本上分為工業跟農業各有不同的議題在裡面那我們認為要基於雙方貿易的平衡跟公平性也有助於未來大家朝向一個BTA的方式來談有一些內容是可以在談判的時候互相拿出來做磋商的好一個互相拿出來磋商我告訴你在2025年各國的貿易談判這個貿易障礙的評估裡頭台灣我們自己台灣僅能夠進口是30個月以上\n\n26:01.467 --> 26:16.492\n的這個牛而且角肉牛角肉也不能進嚴格的審查牛內臟那豬肉的部分特別是與國際標準不符的萊克多巴胺的一個檢驗方式都列在美國的貿易關稅的障礙裡頭在這樣的情況之下請教美豬美牛可能會因為關稅談判而鬆綁嗎\n\n26:24.654 --> 26:39.365\n我們首先要把握的是國人的健康再來是我們國內的消費市場的習慣好所以我主張我們也必須要參考上國際的標準跟科學的根據我們必須用這個方式才能有利於談判\n\n26:40.694 --> 27:04.607\n院長所以我告訴你本席告訴你我主張產品產地的標示不能成為貿易談判的籌碼因為2021年我們進口萊豬的時候對台灣的豬農跟消費者有做出承諾如果棄手當然沒有辦法接受的所以還有一個議題美方也希望能夠進口基改的食品\n\n27:05.683 --> 27:30.978\n我們在教委會裡頭有通過這個基改的食品不能進到校園而且依照我們學校的衛生法的一個法律規定它是不准基改的東西為了孩童的安全孩童的安全是最底的底線絕對不容許有破洞所以本席要請教你的態度呢也就是基改的食品不能進到校園\n\n27:32.814 --> 28:01.009\n還是剛剛的那句話我們國內有國內的法令我們有市場的習慣這個都是維護國人的安全但我們也要考慮到這個國際上的共同的標準跟有沒有科學的根據如果這個科學標準跟根據能夠再來討論的過程當中我們能夠堅持我們的立場也不會去違反國際的這種慣例的話那我們就能堅守住我們的道路院長你這麼說本席聽不是很清楚本想還是要告訴你清楚的立場\n\n28:01.889 --> 28:28.670\n基於孩童的健康基改的食品一定不得進入到我們的校園這是我們的學校衛生法裡頭所規定的請你務必要執行徹底到位我知道我們的法律的規定之所在所以本席要告訴你昨天我也邀請了我們的這個經濟部非常感謝那麼也請聽了產業的這個心聲因為中部地區針對我們的工具機手工具機工具零組件扣件等試行車我們的這個\n\n28:31.792 --> 28:56.078\n這個產業可以說是中部地區的一個胖修啦他的產值也是數兆以上但是昨天有一個答案人民不安心不知道未來是如何所以本期具體建議你的880億現在暫緩不管什麼原因但是本期還是建議積極的趕快拿出你們的方案出來其中有一點很重要大家都認為傳統產業中小企業是在於我們整個產業界的大概九成\n\n29:01.499 --> 29:28.233\n勞動業也在這裡非常的重要重要所以本席要告訴你大家都認為政府偏重於AI科技將我們的船船似乎不到那麼重視那本席要具體建議一定要針對我們的傳統產業中小企業一定要好好的輔導執行到位設立一個專責的單一船口應變小組來協助產業\n\n29:30.762 --> 29:44.806\n中小企業中小微企業都是一直是經濟部主管我們在今天的總預算當中編列了116億比過去都多我相信除了通案刪除的部分大概大院裡面也沒有刪除我們在880億裡面加了50億\n\n29:47.887 --> 30:02.901\n院長880億裡頭你說的中小微企業50億你手拿那麼高你認為夠嗎本期認為不夠你必須要將這個數額來提高真正的照顧我們的中小企業嘛\n\n30:03.677 --> 30:12.085\n因為年度預算有116億我們把它加了50億我們現在還在跟企業聆聽之後我們還在做最後的盤整會有可能會有可能880億一四十需要一四十需要再增加嗎再加碼嗎200億是研發的\n\n30:39.175 --> 30:39.519\n好謝謝楊瓊英文資訊謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.029,"end":11.613,"text":"謝謝院長 本席邀請行政院院長麻煩請卓院長再次備詢"},{"start":21.308,"end":39.617,"text":"杨委员好院长好本席首先今天要跟你分享也请你聆听一下我现在没有时间了时间在你们的手里一周八天一年六季你们是上帝而我的肋骨跟脊椎已经被你们通通收去我现在没有时间了"},{"start":40.157,"end":54.164,"text":"我會在駕駛的時候睡覺看護的時候夢遊蹲馬桶的時候吃便當抽菸的時候抱小孩而你們在開會的時候數錢度假的時候數錢打拋的時候數錢其實根本不用數"},{"start":55.265,"end":74.765,"text":"炸之機的牽管會直接通往你們家裡的保險箱我現在沒有時間了鬧鐘在你們的手裡但我不打算交出我手裡的電池我不打算交出我的脊椎我不打算交出我的孩子跟我自己那一點點抬頭看望天空的時間我不打算交出我的天空"},{"start":75.345,"end":105.085,"text":"土地需要時間才能回臥毛蟲需要時間才能變成蝠蝶我需要時間才能呼吸您也需要時間才能認出鏡子裡頭字跡我相信這些字或許有一點刺眼有一點刺耳但是都是我們在前線勞工在過勞的困境當中看到政府沒有辦法有作為的時候他只能用詩詞用文字做最後沉痛的掙扎跟表白"},{"start":105.766,"end":125.323,"text":"我希望政府能夠藉由這一首詩重新的來檢討勞動政策我也希望執政黨的官員們不要變成鄉賓socialist這是非常的重要過去執政黨號稱跟勞工團體站在一塊我們的前總統蔡英文小姐也說"},{"start":126.184,"end":147.481,"text":"他勞工是民進黨心中最軟的一塊但是民進黨推動勞基法修惡法砍掉了七天假勞工低薪又過時貧富差距越來越大勞動的條件也越來越差這樣的狀況我看到我們的政府還是看不到作為到現在台灣已經變成過勞之島院長你覺得怎樣"},{"start":152.489,"end":172.567,"text":"由在野黨來提醒執政黨9年提醒過去號稱的跟支持勞工的民進黨你不覺得有一點諷刺嗎因為在2023年的年總工時我們達到了2020小時為全球主要國家的第五高"},{"start":173.708,"end":189.638,"text":"亞洲地區主要國家的第二高我們僅次於誰呢僅次於新加坡近三年的工時不斷的在增加台灣已經成為過勞之島院長我們要如何處理你覺得我們是過勞之島嗎請做說明"},{"start":192.405,"end":209.051,"text":"兩個部分第一個所謂七天假並不是砍掉而是在實施週休二日之後他當時在前前前政府的時候就是這樣在設定馬總統的時候都是這樣在設定的所以七天假沒有所謂砍掉的問題現在是大家在評估說整個社會經濟進步的情況底下"},{"start":209.571,"end":224.022,"text":"有人提出各種休假的方式但這個截然跟所謂七天假不相干另外我們的工時比較長因為我們計算的方式如果把部分工時也算在裡面的話我們其實是沒有那麼長的這個再請部長來做仔細的說明請稍等"},{"start":225.168,"end":250.494,"text":"院長你說沒有砍掉七天架而且這也是不相關大家都聽到了我要告訴你本席具體數字告訴你公時可分為制度公時實際公時我們根據資料跟學者的同時我們來看數字台灣跟日韓來做比較法定的公時一樣單週是40個小時但是看是不比別人差但是最重要的差別是什麼"},{"start":251.414,"end":279.58,"text":"是永薪假日韓國定的假日呢他分別是16天跟15天都比我們台灣的12天還要高特休的部分我們看到在整個年薪滿15年之前台灣的特休假的基本上我們也是少於日韓喔所以台灣的青年他出入職場的時候他是更過勞更痛苦在這樣的情況之下台灣的勞工加入出入加入職場的他的一個"},{"start":280.64,"end":300.86,"text":"前兩年的一個時間點是多少公時是一千九百小時以上年資到三年到九年的部分甚至停滯在一千八百六十個小時所以它的時數都比日韓出入職場的還要高你要知道中小企業目前我們的平均的這個壽命是十三年"},{"start":301.32,"end":321.41,"text":"年資15年後才能夠比較有這個特休的一個設計在這樣情況之下加上我們的國定假日被砍不還那根本就是在壓榨我們整個的年輕勞工所以這樣子不是過勞什麼才是過勞呢所以本席要在這邊說明減少勞工"},{"start":324.331,"end":353.081,"text":"你們政府也一直在努力但是本是告訴你減少勞工也就是還勞工的七天假洪部長你記得洪委員嗎當時呢您也簽署了執政黨的委員也就是要怎麼樣降低工時所以院長在我們台灣面臨這樣子的一個過勞的情況甚至我們的年輕人青壯年的勞工的一個窘境他會影響到我們整個"},{"start":353.921,"end":382.62,"text":"國家的一個勞動少子化以及經濟這是國家大計這是國安大計所以我們如果持續的低薪那低薪改變不了的時候我相信減少工時不就是我們應該作為改革的重點嗎所以部長在你之前在立法院回答的時候我很高興的聽到你支持勞工的工時降低您現在的主張是不是一樣的態度呢請院長說明"},{"start":384.061,"end":393.126,"text":"請院長說明請院長說明因為這是部長院長您說明啊部長之前的說法跟現在一致我跟楊委員說明確實台灣的工時的問題我確實覺得有改善的空間"},{"start":402.92,"end":426.577,"text":"我認為確實有改善的空間事實上這幾年這個政府其實也很努力的希望來提高薪資其實提高跟薪資跟降低工時也是有關係的因為就是希望能夠把薪資的提高讓一些我們一些勞工他可能不會因為他的薪資過低所以他必須被迫要來加班所以就你的本業我們要怎麼樣降低工時你的措施在哪裡請教你"},{"start":427.498,"end":449.612,"text":"所以楊偉勇說明這幾年其實我們包括我們的基本工資其實一直在提升第二個其實我們現在會來提出關於薪資透明化的做法那薪資透明化其實也會有助於實質的薪資的提升其實事實上這兩年在薪資的提升上面是有成果的但我說實話我自己覺得當然還不夠請教工時的部分"},{"start":450.452,"end":470.857,"text":"對 那我說薪資的提高跟工時之間是有關係的那至於剛剛楊委員可能講到的是國定假日的問題我自己覺得國定假日的問題從勞動部的角度來說我認為這是有討論的空間的非常感謝我們現在的洪部長還是支持以前洪委員的這個論點那所以本期要說明在我們的這個委員會裡頭"},{"start":472.697,"end":496.916,"text":"已經國民黨所提案已經有整合出一個版本而且出了委員會就送到院會代協商是將這五天至少還有五天還五天那請教院長你會不會支持這樣的方案我剛剛跟委員報告過2016年的時候馬前總統那個時代請教院長你會不會支持這樣子的方案因為您現在是院長"},{"start":499.099,"end":513.561,"text":"對這個國定假日如何去定義不要跟所謂七天假混在一起談不要混在一起啊那不要混在一起請問你們什麼時候要提出版本有沒有行政院版本大家都聽到了不要混在一起"},{"start":514.422,"end":529.736,"text":"換句話說 再一次禮貌的請教你會不會支持目前在委員會所討論 紅部長都在現場委員會所討論的也就是將國定的假日五天假送到院會要來協商 請問行政院會不會支持"},{"start":530.424,"end":547.896,"text":"我們有我們的想法但這個想法我的前提想法是想委員要跟大家一起說跟老公朋友一起說在馬前總統的時候就說到了那個條件就是實施週休二日之後就沒有所謂七天假不要把它混在一起談"},{"start":549.238,"end":569.058,"text":"現在已經在立法院委員會已經送出了我想要請洪部長給院長報告一下我也希望得到行政院的一個支持我們真正的幫助我們的勞工這一個非常重要同時剛剛院長說了你們有你們的想法我也希望你們會不會送版本到立法院來請說明"},{"start":570.939,"end":598.515,"text":"所以七天假或五天或幾天有沒有經過科學的評估到底對國內的產業影響多少對勞工的工時降低多少要經過科學的評估這個在委員會都充分的討論所以院長我請你用點心協助我們的勞工我相信你一定有這個心你好好地協助我們的勞工把院板送來 謝謝你接下來本席要討論的也就是我們世界潮流我們的能源政策"},{"start":599.255,"end":623.345,"text":"部長 院長 台灣在2025年非核家園的目標下今年的五月份將會關閉我們的這個第三核能電廠的二號機那達到了非核家園在這樣的情況之下同時我們看到再生能源是來不及補足我們台灣電力的一個缺口那我們只能夠仰賴什麼呢再生能源來不及的時候就仰賴南美"},{"start":624.145,"end":644.015,"text":"就仰賴我們的天然氣嘛發電但是這不僅違背了2050年的一個淨零碳排也可能可能會被課徵碳關稅也可能會被課徵喔所以在這樣的情況之下我們急迫的看到台電的員工很辛苦台電呢他累計的虧損將近4千億今年1月份他們的財報出來又增加了121億的虧損其中太陽能的虧損是5.8億"},{"start":654.22,"end":671.096,"text":"風力是58億外購燃氣的部分是這個17億那唯一沒有缺的沒有虧的就是有盈餘7億多的核電換句話說未來還是會繼續虧這樣子的一個方向政策所以院長"},{"start":671.816,"end":690.124,"text":"台電的虧損他應當最重要的是能源政策有問題因為這個數字已經告訴你了台電堅強還是要買高的綠電那這個是慘虧的原因那我們繼續來看到目前為止執政黨把發電平均1.12元最便宜的核電"},{"start":691.405,"end":716.237,"text":"要廢棄不用了但是我們的燃煤跟燃氣的部分是2.5到3塊我們的綠電我們又看到光電風電要多少5塊到6塊半所以在這樣的情況之下有學者推估去年台電很辛苦台電背了一個黑鍋因為購入了火力發電跟風力發電以外以外的支出超過600億"},{"start":717.665,"end":734.755,"text":"超過600億院長核電可以作為基載電力再生電源不行在這樣情況之下很多的國家考量到整個電力的一個穩定性而且又要不排碳的一個電力就有他們都有希望要保留核電"},{"start":735.595,"end":750.144,"text":"那現在AI的算計它的電力的需求量又是非常非常高電力就等於是國力科技的巨頭以及先進的國家都開始在使用核電台灣背道而馳"},{"start":751.084,"end":780.12,"text":"那麼沒有核電的計劃跟配套所以院長在氣候變遷的副總副召集人童子賢先生他也說了他說以一年用電三千億度來計算每一度如果差一塊錢那一年國家支出額外的多少三千億元三千億元所以他說他呼籲讓核電來幫忙吧他可以每一年替台灣省下N千億元"},{"start":781.112,"end":807.755,"text":"所以院長在這樣子的情況之下又在這個會議當中不只童子仁先生吶喊我們的中研院的廖院長他也說未來的AI用電需求量可能無上限台灣的土地面積以及再生能源的總量它也有上限所以因此我們必須要考慮其他的能源能夠來因應未來的一個需求"},{"start":808.456,"end":824.994,"text":"他说在过去德国因为他有两周缺了阳光跟缺了风所以他就向邻近的国家法国以核能为主要能源的来进口核电我们是不是应该也要效法"},{"start":826.815,"end":850.463,"text":"這個德國的一個做法在這樣的考量之下我們更必須要將我們的能源安全能源成長以及台灣目前所需要的這些狀況納入整體性的一個評估所以院長在我們世界各國如此的作為我們是反逆的世界潮流還是要配合所以我們我也藉由美國前任的這個"},{"start":851.423,"end":864.35,"text":"在台協會這個司徒文處長所說的他參加了2025年區域安全兵推的時候他說了一句話問你一句話為什麼台灣政府要反對核能請說明"},{"start":865.407,"end":892.615,"text":"我先報告委員兩件委員應該知道的事情請郭部長回答第一個委員應該知道我們的河山廠40年期限到了這是河管法的規定依照河管法40年期限到就必須處理這我告訴你啊這五月份要關啊OK這我已經告訴你答案了第二個委員應該知道的事情我們現在開始到2030 3032年之間我們除了多元發展綠電之外我們有六座大型的電廠以氣換煤在排"},{"start":893.647,"end":918.706,"text":"降低這個排碳更新設備放大他能量包括大嶺包括興達包括通宵包括台中包括林口包括協和這個委員都清楚的很好 院長你如數家珍也表示你知道這個問題的嚴重性因為本席要告訴你要告訴你核子反應器的這個設施管制辦法站在你旁邊郭部長我非常敬佩他在經濟委員會他說"},{"start":920.407,"end":944.324,"text":"如果現在已經在立法院在討論那麼這個修法國民黨提案郭部長說如果大院通過經濟部跟台電會依照修法的這個方向去執行之那請教院長修法通過你會依照這個方向去執行之嗎"},{"start":945.117,"end":954.916,"text":"任何一個法案只要經過大院充分討論民主表決出來的結果行政院基本上支持非常感謝那送到行政院執行制的時候那你還會提復議嗎"},{"start":956.752,"end":980.294,"text":"我說他如果經過充分討論當然充分討論啊以前很多不是喔我們有113個委員不分藍綠白大家討論我們的看法以前我們真的沒有沒有沒有如果大院通過 你的郭部長是這麼說您會不會這樣支持 您說你願意那你會不會再提附議 請說如果我們建立在共同的前提說充分討論民主的程序大院出來的法案"},{"start":981.075,"end":1005.338,"text":"法律案預算案行政院應該是要接受的所以我們就會在這個法律的新的結構底下開始推演怎麼樣對國家最有利的方向我們也希望台灣的能源有新的展現新的展現因為我們很清楚的知道我們的能源確實因為我們蓬勃發展能源確實會不夠那我們要怎麼樣多元的一個開發這是非常的重要所以有一個重點"},{"start":1005.959,"end":1023.664,"text":"您說您會支持但是本席支持是原意的一個修法但是本席要請教也就是《環境基本法》的第23條我們的郭部長跟您也一樣說如果有新的技術能源你們會用開放的態度"},{"start":1024.844,"end":1039.18,"text":"但是你如果環境基本法抱著神主牌非核家園的神主牌你是永遠只是水巴縮縮根本不能做所以環境基本法本席也有提出將非核家園改為淨零家園你同意吧"},{"start":1039.881,"end":1058.162,"text":"非核家園在環境基本法當中並不是誰的神主牌是大院通過的法案好 非常感謝你說不是神主牌我歡喜聽到那麼改為本席所提出的環境基本法第23條也就是說非核家園我們改為近鄰家園你同意吧"},{"start":1058.832,"end":1077.109,"text":"不論是非核或是淨零都是我們邁向的目標但是我聽到委員講淨零比過去您的同事講非碳我覺得好多了好很好謝謝你謝謝你我們一起加油我希望委員會討論送出來協商的時候希望得到行政院的一個支持謝謝接下來我本期要跟你討論"},{"start":1078.972,"end":1104.899,"text":"關稅的問題 院長美國關稅政策他非常的詭辯所以大家說跟那個變臉一樣其實我不太喜歡講這句話因為我希望我們的產業是穩定的我知道整個中央政府地方政府大家都嚴正以待而且我們的官員也都很辛苦所以本期要請教我們正面臨的重塑整個全球經貿的一個樣態"},{"start":1105.979,"end":1132.007,"text":"在這樣的一個情況之下政府說4月11號我方代表團已經帶著我們基本的策略那麼也跟美國第一時間用視訊的會議所以要請教您預估什麼時候可以拿出成果那麼在這個成果的時候呢你會分段的來分享還是說要等到60天還是90天才會知道這個結果請教"},{"start":1134.673,"end":1153.651,"text":"我們非常抱歉我覺得是國際性的談判不是在這裡我們把自己像切香腸一樣一段一段切擺在這個跟切香腸沒有關係因為接下來本席要告訴你的是產業界未知的這個情況他們很緊張因為我們作為行政院就是要讓我們的人民"},{"start":1154.211,"end":1166.2,"text":"尤其是我們的產業他能夠安心所以你不回答本席的這個議題我也給予尊重但是我們還是要繼續討論這個議題本席請教對於美國採購對於美國的投資對於零關稅對於相關的貿易障礙哪一項是首先列入談判的一個項目很多的項目都是談判過程當中必須一一拿出來討論的"},{"start":1183.532,"end":1202.892,"text":"所以換句話說你還是沒辦法告訴我是哪一些是具體但是您曾經說過政府我也非常的希望我們希望能夠用BTA的這個精神跟美國來談那請教院長你認為我們達成BTA的機率有多大"},{"start":1203.766,"end":1224.392,"text":"我們當然希望用BTA的方式雙邊貿易的協定因為仿茂USMCA美加MORE的這個協定它是一個我們看到的結構跟基礎即使它執行的內容並不如它原來設定協定時候那樣的完整但是至少它是一個架構在那個架構底下如果可以有往BTA的方向去做雙方的談話"},{"start":1225.212,"end":1243.37,"text":"也許架構在 精神可以在互相的做一些磋商非常好 本席也希望如此但是我們有前策之見本席不希望重蹈覆轍因為之前我們也都說我們希望跟美國洽談這個BTA我們也做出了很多的貿易的讓步"},{"start":1244.731,"end":1259.35,"text":"但是最後都不了了之所以我還是充分建議大家加油我們希望政府要務實的穩定的來做談判以人民的利益為最優先而不是急著用話術來做宣傳"},{"start":1260.511,"end":1266.553,"text":"沒有非常好所以院長我想大家都很關心你下鄉去開講就針對於美國宣布的什麼電腦手機智慧型晶片這20種產品那豁免的對等關稅你還說這是強心劑但是美國川普又來一個回馬槍了他說他隨即又發文沒有任何的豁免"},{"start":1285.22,"end":1310.473,"text":"而且他說一週之內要宣布會端出半導體關稅的這個稅率那川普他說囉他說他希望想要在他自己國家裡頭來生產晶片跟半導體那麼請教院長在整個談判的資訊跟狀況到底是如何美國接下來他會宣布半導體或其他的電子產品增加關稅嗎請做說明"},{"start":1312.179,"end":1334.346,"text":"美國新的政策一直在宣布像今天他又有一個訊息出來說對汽車零組件可能也有另外一個新的思考所以表示你之前加強去講的講得太快了因為美國一直變再變再變表示我們有掌握到訊息對我方有利的我們會充分留起來用如果政策改變了我們就改變未來談判的策略跟我們的立場"},{"start":1334.906,"end":1345.081,"text":"很好接下來本期告訴你輝達宣布跟台積電在美投資要5000億的美元那麼未來我們是會預期台灣有更多的半導體跟產業會到美國請院長"},{"start":1346.96,"end":1369.31,"text":"好 這個早上委員又有提到那我們有經過經濟部在做細部的分析是不是一定有時間讓部長來說我們的產業界會不會 告訴我會不會就好 院長這樣部長來回答報告委員 這個命題我們有經過評估有評析 回答他要投資五千億美金在美國他分成三個部分"},{"start":1369.77,"end":1385.55,"text":"本錢非常清楚所以請教會不會你們評估嘛一定會有評估會不會未來有我們更多的我們的產業量會移到美國去沒有他那個部分你告訴我會不會他那個部分大概我們台灣大概只有兩種公司會跟著去"},{"start":1387.432,"end":1407.124,"text":"做EMS的就是說做代工的包括報紙也有寫鴻海跟微創這個會過去另外一個就是台積電的封裝的部分他本來在美國是交給Amaco這個公司在做這個在美國講好了但是Amaco可能技術不夠"},{"start":1407.944,"end":1434.227,"text":"所以我們台灣的細品可能會去指導但是這個東西呢並沒有完全的被披露我們對這個個案的詳細的內容我們都有做一些比較因為沒有拿到手上但是這個部分如果我們台灣的廠商要去美國去投資的話那麼當然經濟部會可以關注那如果是屬於台灣技術的部分"},{"start":1435.047,"end":1458.889,"text":"如果是屬於台灣技術的部分我們一定會嚴守台灣的技術本位我們留在台灣不會過去院長您聽到部長所說的也是本席希望的我們國內的產業當然我們要跟世界接軌但是怎麼樣能夠保護我國國內產業的產業鏈不能斷這個是非常的重要因為產業等於是民生"},{"start":1459.93,"end":1475.255,"text":"固產業就等於是顧名聲所以在當時這個關稅風暴出來的時候本席就具體建議我們對外要談判加速談判對內要怎麼樣呢要紓困而且應對要快對不對"},{"start":1475.984,"end":1501.372,"text":"我們都有做到你們都有做到但是我告訴你在這樣的一個情況之下我們都非常的希望能夠要怎麼做也就剛才討論的產業我們要怎麼保護日本的首相他在昨天禮拜一的時候他告訴了議會表示日本不會因為倉促完成美國跟美國的關稅談判而做出妥協我們的立場是不是同樣請院長說明"},{"start":1502.432,"end":1522.584,"text":"我說 談判的進行一定是爭取國家最大的利益就是不會為了談判妥協不犧牲國家人民的利益當然 爭取國家最大的利益而要維護產業的國際競爭力謝謝接下來我們要討論這個貿易關稅的障礙的問題那麼請教院長美方最在意的是什麼我們的立場又是什麼關稅貿易障礙的部分我方的立場是什麼我們美國最在意的是什麼非關稅貿易障礙"},{"start":1532.082,"end":1560.367,"text":"基本上分為工業跟農業各有不同的議題在裡面那我們認為要基於雙方貿易的平衡跟公平性也有助於未來大家朝向一個BTA的方式來談有一些內容是可以在談判的時候互相拿出來做磋商的好 一個互相拿出來磋商我告訴你在2025年各國的貿易談判這個貿易障礙的評估裡頭台灣我們自己台灣僅能夠進口是30個月以上"},{"start":1561.467,"end":1576.492,"text":"的這個牛而且角肉牛角肉也不能進嚴格的審查牛內臟那豬肉的部分特別是與國際標準不符的萊克多巴胺的一個檢驗方式都列在美國的貿易關稅的障礙裡頭在這樣的情況之下請教美豬美牛可能會因為關稅談判而鬆綁嗎"},{"start":1584.654,"end":1599.365,"text":"我們首先要把握的是國人的健康再來是我們國內的消費市場的習慣好 所以我主張我們也必須要參考上國際的標準跟科學的根據我們必須用這個方式才能有利於談判"},{"start":1600.694,"end":1624.607,"text":"院長所以我告訴你本席告訴你我主張產品產地的標示不能成為貿易談判的籌碼因為2021年我們進口萊豬的時候對台灣的豬農跟消費者有做出承諾如果棄手當然沒有辦法接受的所以還有一個議題美方也希望能夠進口基改的食品"},{"start":1625.683,"end":1650.978,"text":"我們在教委會裡頭有通過這個基改的食品不能進到校園而且依照我們學校的衛生法的一個法律規定它是不准基改的東西為了孩童的安全孩童的安全是最底的底線絕對不容許有破洞所以本席要請教你的態度呢也就是基改的食品不能進到校園"},{"start":1652.814,"end":1681.009,"text":"還是剛剛的那句話我們國內有國內的法令我們有市場的習慣這個都是維護國人的安全但我們也要考慮到這個國際上的共同的標準跟有沒有科學的根據如果這個科學標準跟根據能夠再來討論的過程當中我們能夠堅持我們的立場也不會去違反國際的這種慣例的話那我們就能堅守住我們的道路院長你這麼說本席聽不是很清楚本想還是要告訴你清楚的立場"},{"start":1681.889,"end":1708.67,"text":"基於孩童的健康基改的食品一定不得進入到我們的校園這是我們的學校衛生法裡頭所規定的請你務必要執行徹底到位我知道我們的法律的規定之所在所以本席要告訴你昨天我也邀請了我們的這個經濟部非常感謝那麼也請聽了產業的這個心聲因為中部地區針對我們的工具機手工具機工具零組件扣件等試行車我們的這個"},{"start":1711.792,"end":1736.078,"text":"這個產業可以說是中部地區的一個胖修啦他的產值也是數兆以上但是昨天有一個答案人民不安心不知道未來是如何所以本期具體建議你的880億現在暫緩不管什麼原因但是本期還是建議積極的趕快拿出你們的方案出來其中有一點很重要大家都認為傳統產業中小企業是在於我們整個產業界的大概九成"},{"start":1741.499,"end":1768.233,"text":"勞動業也在這裡非常的重要重要所以本席要告訴你大家都認為政府偏重於AI 科技將我們的船船似乎不到那麼重視那本席要具體建議一定要針對我們的傳統產業中小企業一定要好好的輔導執行到位設立一個專責的單一船口應變小組來協助產業"},{"start":1770.762,"end":1784.806,"text":"中小企業中小微企業都是一直是經濟部主管我們在今天的總預算當中編列了116億比過去都多我相信除了通案刪除的部分大概大院裡面也沒有刪除我們在880億裡面加了50億"},{"start":1787.887,"end":1802.901,"text":"院長880億裡頭你說的中小微企業50億你手拿那麼高你認為夠嗎本期認為不夠你必須要將這個數額來提高真正的照顧我們的中小企業嘛"},{"start":1803.677,"end":1812.085,"text":"因為年度預算有116億我們把它加了50億我們現在還在跟企業聆聽之後我們還在做最後的盤整會有可能會有可能880億一四十需要一四十需要再增加嗎 再加碼嗎200億是研發的"},{"start":1839.175,"end":1839.519,"text":"好 謝謝楊瓊英文資訊 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":202,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（15時20分）謝謝院長，本席邀請行政院院長。"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長再次備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：楊委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長好。首先本席今天要跟你分享一首詩「我現在沒有時間了」，也請你聆聽一下：","我現在沒有時間了","時間在你們手裡","一週八天，一年六季","你們是上帝，而我的肋骨和脊椎","已經被你們統統收去","我現在沒有時間了","我會在駕駛的時候睡覺","看護的時候夢遊","蹲馬桶的時候吃便當","抽菸的時候抱小孩","而你們","在開會的時候數錢","度假的時候數錢","打砲的時候數錢","其實根本不用數","榨汁機的鉛管會直接通往","你們家裡的保險箱","我現在沒有時間了","鬧鐘在你們手裡","但我不打算交出我手裡的電池","我不打算交出我的脊椎","我不打算交出我的孩子和我自己的","那一點點抬頭看天空的時間","我不打算交出我的天空","土地需要時間才能肥沃","毛蟲需要時間才能變成蝴蝶","我需要時間才能呼吸","你也需要時間","才能認出鏡子裡的自己","我相信這些字或許有一點刺眼、有一點刺耳，但都是前線的勞工在過勞的困境當中，看到政府沒有辦法有作為的時候，他只能用詩詞、用文字做最後沉痛的掙扎跟表達。我希望政府能夠藉由這一首詩，重新的來檢討勞動政策，我也希望執政黨的官員們不要變成shopping socialist，這個非常的重要。","過去執政黨號稱跟勞工團體站在一塊，我們的前總統蔡英文小姐也說，勞工是民進黨心中最軟的一塊，但是民進黨推動勞基法修惡，砍掉了7天假，勞工低薪又過勞，貧富差距越來越大，勞動的條件也越來越差，在這樣的狀況下還是看不到政府的作為，到現在臺灣已經變成過勞之島。院長，你知道嗎？由在野黨來提醒已經執政了9年的執政黨，提醒過去號稱支持勞工的民進黨，你不覺得有一點諷刺嗎？","在2023年我們的年總工時達到了2020小時，為全球主要國家的第五高，亞洲地區主要國家的第二高，我們僅次於誰呢？僅次於新加坡。近3年的工時不斷增加，臺灣已經成為過勞之島，院長，我們要如何處理？你覺得我們是過勞之島嗎？請說明。"],["卓院長榮泰：兩個部分，第一個所謂7天假並不是砍掉，而是在實施周休二日之後，當時在前前政府的時候就是這樣在設定，馬總統的時候就是這樣在設定的，所以7天假沒有所謂砍掉的問題。現在是大家在評估，在整個社會經濟進步的情況底下，有人提出各種休假的方式，但這個跟所謂的7天假截然不相干。","另外，我們的工時比較長，因為計算的方式，如果把部分工時也算在裡面的話，我們的工時其實並沒有那麼長，這個再請部長仔細說明。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請稍等，院長，你說沒有砍掉7天假，而且這也是不相關，大家都聽到了。本席告訴你具體的數字，工時可分為制度工時跟實際工時，根據資料跟學者的投書，我們來看數字，以臺灣跟日、韓來比較，法定的工時一樣，單週都是40個小時，看似不比別人差，但是最重要的差別是什麼？是有薪假。日、韓的國定假日分別是16天跟15天，都比臺灣的12天還要高；特休的部分我們看到，在年資滿15年之前，臺灣勞工的特休假基本上也是少於日、韓的，所以臺灣青年初入職場的時候，是更過勞、更痛苦的。","在這樣的情況之下，臺灣勞工初加入職場前兩年的實際年總工時是多少呢？是1,900小時以上；年資3年到9年的勞工，年總工時甚至停滯在1,860個小時，年總工時都比日、韓初入職場的勞工還要高。你要知道，中小企業目前的平均壽命是13年，年資15年後才能夠比較有特休的設計，在這樣的情況之下，加上我們的國定假日被砍不還，那根本就是在壓榨年輕的勞工，這樣子不是過勞，什麼才是過勞呢？所以本席要在這邊說明，雖然減少勞工的工時，你們政府也一直在努力，但是本席告訴你，減少勞工的工時，也就是還勞工的7天假。洪部長，你記得洪委員嗎？當時您也連署了執政黨委員的提案，也就是要怎麼樣降低工時。院長，在臺灣面臨這樣過勞的情況，甚至年輕人、青壯年勞工的窘境，會影響到整個國家的勞動力、少子化以及經濟，這是國家大忌，這是國安大忌！如果持續低薪改變不了的時候，我相信減少工時不就是我們應該作為改革的重點嗎？部長，你之前在立法院回答的時候，我很高興聽到你支持勞工的工時降低，你現在的主張是不是一樣的態度呢？請院長說明。"],["卓院長榮泰：部長……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請院長說明。"],["洪部長申翰：我跟楊委員說明……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請院長說明，因為這是部長……院長，您說明啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：部長之前的說法跟現在一致啊！"],["洪部長申翰：我跟楊委員說明臺灣工時的問題，我確實覺得有改善的空間，我認為確實有改善的空間。事實上，這幾年政府也很努力的希望來提高薪資，其實提高薪資跟降低工時也是有關係的，就是希望能夠把薪資提高，讓一些勞工可能不會因為薪資過低，所以必須被迫要來加班……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：很好，因為目前薪資改變不了，所以就你的本業，我們要怎麼樣降低工時？你的措施在哪裡？請說明。"],["洪部長申翰：跟楊委員說明，這幾年包括基本工資其實一直在提升；第二個，我們現在會提出關於薪資透明化的作法，薪資透明化其實也會有助於實質的薪資提升。事實上，這兩年在薪資的提升上面是有成果的，但我說實話，我自己覺得當然還不夠。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請教工時的部分。"],["洪部長申翰：我說薪資的提高跟工時之間是有關係的。至於剛剛楊委員講到國定假日的問題，我自己覺得國定假日的問題，從勞動部的角度來說，我認為這是有討論的空間。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：非常感謝。現在的洪部長還是支持以前洪委員的這個論點，所以本席要說明，在委員會裡頭，國民黨的提案已經有整合出一個版本，而且出了委員會就送到院會待協商，至少還5天。請教院長，你會不會支持這樣的方案？"],["卓院長榮泰：我剛剛跟委員報告過，2016年的時候，馬前總統那個時代……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請教院長，你會不會支持這樣子的方案？因為您現在是院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：現在對這個國定假日如何去定義？不要跟所謂的7天假混在一起談。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不要混在一起？若不要混在一起，請問你們什麼時候要提出版本？有沒有行政院版本？大家都聽到，不要混在一起！再一次禮貌的請教，你會不會支持目前在委員會所討論的，洪部長都在現場，委員會所討論的，也就是將國定假日5天假送到院會要來協商，請問行政院會不會支持？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們有我們的想法，但這個想法的前提是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你有你的想法，想法也有支持的啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：我的想法是想委員要跟大家一起說、勞工朋友一起說，在馬前總統的時候就說過了，那個條件就是實施週休二日之後就沒有所謂的7天假，不要把它混在一起談。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，現在在立法院，委員會已經送出來了，我想要請洪部長給院長報告一下，我也希望得到行政院的支持，我們真正的幫助勞工，這個非常重要，同時剛剛院長說了，你們有你們的想法，但你們會不會送版本到立法院來？請說明，會不會送？"],["卓院長榮泰：7天假或5天或幾天……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：會不會送？"],["卓院長榮泰：有沒有經過科學的評估？到底對國內的產業影響多少？對勞工的工時降低多少？這個要經過科學的評估。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這個在委員會都充分討論了，所以我請你用點心協助勞工。我相信你一定有這個心，好好的協助勞工，把院版送來，謝謝你。","接下來本席要討論的，也就是世界潮流──我們的能源政策。院長，臺灣在2025年非核家園的目標下，今年的5月份將會關閉第三核能電廠2號機，達到非核家園。在這樣的情況之下，同時我們看到再生能源是來不及補足臺灣電力的缺口，那我們只能夠仰賴什麼呢？再生能源來不及的時候就仰賴燃煤，就仰賴天然氣發電。但是這不僅違背了2050年的淨零碳排，也可能會被課徵碳關稅！在這樣的情況之下，我們急迫地看到台電的員工很辛苦，台電累計的虧損將近4,000億，今年1月份他們的財報出來，又增加了121億的虧損，其中太陽能的虧損是5.8億，風力是58億，外購燃氣的部分是17億，唯一沒有虧的、有盈餘七億多的核電；換句話說，未來還是會繼續虧，是這樣的政策方向。台電的虧損最重要的應當是能源政策有問題，因為這個數字已經告訴你了，台電堅持還是要買高價的綠電，這個是慘虧的原因啊！我們繼續來看，到目前為止，執政黨把發電平均1.42元最便宜的核電要廢棄不用了，但是燃煤跟燃氣的部分是2.5到3塊，至於綠電，我們又看到光電、風電要多少？5塊到6塊半，所以在這樣的情況之下，有學者推估……去年台電很辛苦，台電背了一個黑鍋，因為購入火力發電和風力發電以外的支出超過600億！院長，核電可以作為基載電力，再生能源不行！在這樣的情況之下，很多國家考量到整個電力的穩定性，而且又要不排碳的電力，他們都希望要保留核電。現在AI的算計電力需求量又是非常高，電力就等於是國力！科技的巨頭以及先進的國家都開始在使用核電，臺灣卻背道而馳，沒有核電的計畫跟配套。","氣候變遷的副召集人童子賢先生也說了，他說以一年用電3,000億度來計算，每1度如果差1塊錢，那一年國家要支出額外的多少？3,000億元！所以他呼籲讓核電來幫忙，每一年可以替臺灣省下N千億元。在這樣子的情況之下，這個會議當中，不只童子賢先生吶喊，中研院廖院長也說，未來的AI用電需求量可能無上限，臺灣的土地面積以及再生能源的總量卻有上限，因此我們必須要考慮其他的能源能夠因應未來的需求。他說，在過去德國因為有兩週缺了陽光跟缺了風，所以就向鄰近國家以核能為主要能源的法國進口核電，我們是不是應該也要效法德國的作法？在這樣的考量之下，我們更必須要將我們的能源安全、能源成長，以及臺灣目前所需要的這些狀況納入整體性的評估。世界各國如此作為，我們卻是反逆世界潮流，還是要廢核。我也藉由美國前任在臺協會司徒文處長參加2025年區域安全兵推的時候，問你的一句話，為什麼臺灣政府要反對核能？請說明。"],["卓院長榮泰：我先報告兩件委員也應該知道的事情，之後請郭部長回答。第一個，委員應該知道，核三廠40年期限到了，這是核管法的規定，依照核管法，40年期限到就必須除役，這是現狀。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，所以我告訴你5月份要關啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：這個事委員都知道了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：OK！這我已經告訴你答案了，是。"],["卓院長榮泰：第二個委員應該知道的事情是，現在開始到2030、2032年之間，除了多元發展綠電之外，我們有6座大型電廠以氣換煤降低排碳，更新設備、放大能量，包括大林、興達、通霄、臺中、林口、協和，委員都清楚。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：很好！院長，你如數家珍，也表示你知道這個問題的嚴重性。"],["卓院長榮泰：了解。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為本席要告訴你有關核子反應器設施管制法，我非常敬佩的郭部長在經濟委員會說，如果現在已經在立法院討論，郭部長說如果大院通過國民黨提案的修法，經濟部跟台電會依照修法的方向去執行之。請教院長，修法通過，你會依照這個方向去執行之嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：任何一個法案，只要經過大院充分討論、民主表決出來的結果，行政院基本上支持，那我們就會有……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：非常感謝，那送到行政院執行之的時候，你還會提覆議嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我說它如果經過充分討論……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：當然充分討論啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：以前很多不是！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們有113個委員，不分藍、綠、白，大家充分討論，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有，我們的意見、看法不同，以前很多政策的過程是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：沒有，如果大院通過，郭部長是這麼說，您會不會支持？你說你願意，那你會不會再提覆議？請說。"],["卓院長榮泰：如果我們建立在共同的前提、充分的討論、民主的程序，大院出來的法律案、預算案，行政院應該是要接受的，所以我們就會在這個法律新的結構底下開始推演，怎麼樣是對國家更有利的方向。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，謝謝您。我們也希望臺灣的能源有新的展現。我們很清楚的知道，因為我們蓬勃發展，能源確實會不夠，那我們要怎麼樣多元的開發，這是非常的重要，所以有一個重點，您說您會支持，這只是延役的修法。但是本席要請教，也就是環境基本法第二十三條，郭部長跟您也一樣說，如果有新的技術能源，你們會用開放的態度，如果你抱著非核家園的神主牌，你永遠只是嘴巴說說，根本不能做，所以本席也有提出環境基本法的修法，將非核家園改為淨零家園，你同意吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：非核家園在環境基本法當中，並不是誰的神主牌，是大院通過的法案。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，非常感謝你說不是神主牌，我歡喜聽到，那麼本席所提出把環境基本法第二十三條的非核家園改為淨零家園，你同意吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：無論是非核或是淨零，都是我們邁向的目標，但是我聽到委員講淨零比過去您的同事講非碳，我覺得好多了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：很好，謝謝你，我們一起加油。我希望委員會討論送出來協商的時候能得到行政院的支持，謝謝。","接下來，本席要跟你討論關稅的問題。院長，美國關稅政策非常的詭變，所以大家說跟變臉一樣，其實我不太喜歡講這句話，因為我希望我們的產業是穩定的。我知道中央政府、地方政府，大家都嚴陣以待，而且官員也都很辛苦。本席要請教，我們正面臨重塑整個全球經貿的樣態，在這樣的情況之下，政府說4月11號我方代表團已經帶著我們基本的策略，第一時間也跟美國召開視訊會議，你預估什麼時候可以拿出成果？你會分段來分享這個成果，還是要等到60天、還是90天才會知道這個結果？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員非常抱歉，我覺得是國際性的談判，不是在這裡把自己像切香腸一樣一段一段切，擺在餐桌上，不是這樣子。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這個跟切香腸沒有關係，因為接下來本席要告訴你，產業界在未知的情況，他們很緊張……"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我們做了很多產業傾聽之旅啊！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：行政院就是要讓我們的人民，尤其是我們的產業能夠安心，所以你不回答本席這個議題，我也給予尊重，但是我們還是要繼續討論這個議題。本席請教，對於美國的採購、對於美國的投資、對於零關稅、對於相關的貿易障礙，哪一項是首先列入談判的項目？"],["卓院長榮泰：很多項目都是談判過程當中，必須一一拿出來討論的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：必須一一，所以換句話說，你還是沒辦法告訴我哪一些是具體。您曾經說過，而我也非常希望政府能夠用BTA的精神跟美國來談。請教院長，你認為我們達成BTA的機率有多大？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們當然希望用BTA的方式簽雙邊貿易協定，因為USMCA美加墨的協定是一個我們看到的結構跟基礎，即使它執行的內容並不如原來協定時那樣完整，但是至少它是一個架構。在那個架構底下，如果可以往BTA的方向去做雙方的談話，也許架構在，精神可以再互相的做一些磋商。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：非常好，本席也希望如此，但是我們有前車之鑑，本席不希望重蹈覆轍。因為之前我們都說希望跟美國洽談BTA，也做出了很多貿易的讓步，但是最後都不了了之，所以我還是充分建議，大家加油，希望政府要務實地、穩定地來談判，以人民的利益為最優先。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：而不是急著用話術來宣傳。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：非常好。院長，大家都很關心你下鄉去開講，針對於美國宣布電腦、手機、智慧型晶片等20種產品豁免的對等關稅，你還說這是強心劑。但是美國川普又來一個回馬槍，他隨即又發文說沒有任何的豁免，而且宣布一週之內要端出半導體關稅的稅率，川普說想要在自己國家生產晶片跟半導體。請教院長，整個談判的資訊跟狀況到底是如何？美國接下來會宣布半導體或其他的電子產品增加關稅嗎？請說明。"],["卓院長榮泰：美國新的政策一直在宣布，像今天又有一個訊息出來，對汽車零組件可能也有另外一個新的思考。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以表示你之前下鄉去講得太快了，因為美國一直變，再變、再變啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：表示我們有掌握到訊息，對我方有利的我們會充分留起來用，如果政策改變，我們就改變未來談判的策略跟立場。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：很好！接下來本席告訴你，輝達宣布跟台積電在美投資要5,000億美元，那麼未來我們是不是會預期臺灣有更多的半導體跟產業會到美國？請院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，這個早上委員也有提到，經濟部有在做細部的分析。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們的產業鏈，會嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：是不是一點時間讓部長說明？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：會不會？告訴我會不會就好，院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：請經濟部長來回答。"],["郭部長智輝：我們有評析這個命題，輝達要在美國投資5,000億美金，分成三個部分。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席非常地清楚，所以請教會不會？你們一定會有評估，未來我們會不會有更多的產業鏈移到美國去？"],["郭部長智輝：沒有，他那個部分……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你告訴我，會不會？"],["郭部長智輝：那個部分，臺灣大概只有兩種公司會跟著去，一個是做EMS，就是做代工的，像報紙也有寫鴻海跟緯創會過去。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：EMS的，對。"],["郭部長智輝：另外一個就是台積電封裝的部分，它本來在美國是交給Amkor這個公司在做。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：現在呢？"],["郭部長智輝：但是Amkor可能技術不夠，所以我們的矽品……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以臺灣鏈會過去。"],["郭部長智輝：臺灣的矽品可能會去指導。但是這個東西並沒有完全的被披露，我們對個案詳細的內容都有做一些比較……因為沒有拿到手上……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：非常地感謝。"],["郭部長智輝：但是這個部分，如果臺灣的廠商要去美國投資，當然經濟部會給予關注。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，謝謝部長。"],["郭部長智輝：如果是屬於臺灣技術的部分，我們一定會嚴守臺灣的技術本位。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，謝謝部長。"],["郭部長智輝：我們會留在臺灣不會過去。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，您聽到部長所說的，也是本席希望的，我們當然要跟世界接軌，但是怎麼樣能夠保護我國國內產業鏈不斷，這個是非常的重要。因為產業等於是民生，顧產業就等於是顧民生，所以當關稅風暴出來的時候，本席就具體建議我們對外要加速談判，對內要紓困而且應對要快，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們都有做到。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你們都有做到，但是我告訴你，在這樣的情況之下，我們都非常地希望知道能夠怎麼做，也就是剛才討論的產業，我們要怎麼保護？日本的首相在昨天（禮拜一）告訴議會，表示日本不會為了倉促完成跟美國的關稅談判而做出妥協，我們的立場是不是同樣？請院長說明。"],["卓院長榮泰：我說的談判的進行一定是爭取國家最大的利益，維持產業國際競爭力……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：就是不會為了談判妥協，不犧牲國家人民的利益，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然，爭取國家最大的利益，而且還要維護產業的國際競爭力。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，謝謝。接下來我們要討論貿易關稅的障礙的問題，請教院長，美方最在意的是什麼？我們的立場又是什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：基本上，非關稅貿易障礙工業跟農業各有不同的議題在裡面，我們認為要基於雙方貿易的平衡跟公平性，也有助於未來大家朝向BTA的方式來談，有一些內容是可以在談判的時候，互相拿出來磋商的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我告訴你，在2025年各國貿易障礙的評估裡頭，臺灣僅能夠進口30個月以上的牛，而且牛絞肉也不能進，嚴格的審查牛內臟；豬肉的部分，特別是與國際標準不符的萊克多巴胺檢驗方式，都列在美國貿易關稅的障礙裡頭。在這樣的情況之下，請教院長，美豬、美牛可能會因為關稅談判而鬆綁嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們首先要把握的是國人的健康。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：國人的健康。"],["卓院長榮泰：再來是國內消費市場的習慣。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，所以我主張……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們也必須要參考國際的標準跟科學的根據，必須用這個方式才能有利於談判。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，本席告訴你，我主張產品產地的標示不能成為談判、貿易談判的籌碼，因為2021年我們進口萊豬的時候，對臺灣的豬農跟消費者有做出承諾，如果棄守，大家是沒有辦法接受的。","還有一個議題，美方也希望能夠進口基改的食品，教委會有通過基改的食品不能進到校園，而且依照學校衛生法的法律規定不准基改的東西進入，這是為了孩童的安全，因為孩童的安全是最底的底線，絕對不容許有破洞，所以本席要請教基改的食品不能進到校園，你的態度呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：還是剛剛的那句話，我們國內有國內的法令，我們有市場的習慣，都是維護國人的安全，但我們也要考慮到國際上共同的標準跟有沒有科學的根據。如果這個科學標準跟根據在討論的過程中，我們能夠堅持我們的立場，也不會去違反國際慣例的話，那我們就能堅守住我們的防線。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長這麼說，本席聽不是很清楚。本席還是要告訴你清楚的立場，基於孩童的健康，基改的食品一定不得進入到我們的校園，這是學校衛生法裡頭所規定的，請你務必要執行澈底到位。"],["卓院長榮泰：我知道我們法律規定之所在。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席要告訴你，昨天我邀請了經濟部傾聽產業的心聲，非常感謝。因為中部地區的工具機、手工具機、工具機零組件、扣件、自行車等產業可以說是中部地區的核心，它的產值也是數兆以上。但是昨天有一個答案──人民不安心，不知道未來是如何，就是880億現在暫緩，不管什麼原因，但是本席還是建議積極趕快拿出你們的方案出來。其中有一點很重要，大家都認為傳統產業、中小企業占整個產業界的大概九成，勞動業也非常的重要。大家都認為政府偏重於AI、科技，對傳產似乎不那麼重視，那本席要具體建議，針對傳統產業、中小企業一定要好好的輔導執行到位，設立一個專責的單一窗口應變小組來協助產業。"],["卓院長榮泰：中小企業、中小微企業都一直是經濟部主管，我們在今年的總預算當中編列了116億，比過去都多，我相信除了通案刪除的部分……大概大院裡面也沒有刪除。我們在880億又加了50億。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，在880億裡頭，你說中小微企業50億，你手拿那麼高，你認為夠嗎？本席認為不夠！"],["卓院長榮泰：因為年度預算有116億。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你必須要將這個數額來提高，真正的照顧中小企業，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為年度預算有116億，我們把它加了50億，我們聆聽企業的意見之後，現在還在做最後的盤整。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，其中有一個200億……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：會有可能……"],["郭部長智輝：來幫助中小企業……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：會有可能880億……"],["郭部長智輝：進行研發的部分。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：依事實需要……"],["卓院長榮泰：還有200億也用得到。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：依事實需要再增加嗎？再加碼嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：還有個200億在裡面。"],["卓院長榮泰：部長提醒還有200億的研發。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：200億是研發。"],["郭部長智輝：主要是幫助它提升它的競爭力。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，會不會再滾動式的檢討？880億有機會要加碼。"],["卓院長榮泰：正在檢討中。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：謝謝你。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝楊瓊瓔委員質詢，謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長備詢。","報告院會，現在第二個美國國會助理團又到了，Welcome！歡迎！","接下來政黨總質詢最後一位，登記第56號的葉元之委員，請質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":159,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","蘇清泉","范雲","涂權吉","王美惠","洪孟楷","劉建國","鄭正鈐","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","李柏毅","楊瓊瓔","葉元之"],"page_start":79,"meetingDate":["2025-04-15"],"gazette_id":"1143401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143401_00003","1143401_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1143401_00004"}}}