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\"end\": 556.149, \"text\": \"兩個建議啦 院長聽一下一個建議 你是不是思考一下提高老師願意兼行政職的誘因因為現在做導師的津貼大概是一個月三千塊加有寒暑假對吧 這個部長應該很清楚那行政職的津貼是多少錢一個月差不多四五千塊嘛\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 534.398, \"end\": 534.738, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 534.738, \"end\": 535.459, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 535.459, \"end\": 535.679, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"聽\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 535.679, \"end\": 535.879, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 535.879, \"end\": 536.639, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 536.639, \"end\": 536.919, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 536.919, \"end\": 538.0, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 538.0, \"end\": 538.1, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 538.1, \"end\": 538.18, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 538.18, \"end\": 538.26, 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{\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 571.364, \"end\": 571.464, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"老\", \"start\": 571.464, \"end\": 571.925, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"師\"}, {\"word\": \"願\"}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 571.925, \"end\": 572.165, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 572.165, \"end\": 572.665, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 572.665, \"end\": 573.106, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 573.106, \"end\": 573.286, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 573.286, \"end\": 574.187, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"職\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 574.187, \"end\": 574.347, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"曉\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 574.347, \"end\": 574.588, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 574.588, \"end\": 574.908, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 574.908, \"end\": 575.048, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", 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\"以及未來財富的負擔怎麼樣那我覺得這個問題是要解決的否則對學校的健全的各項發展是不足那我們往健全去解決問題的方式來講所以你的意思是說提高行政職的津貼這個你覺得可以研議然後去解決這個問題解決這個問題那方式有哪一些那這個部分委員所建議的我們請部長來聊一下那等一下部長一起回答好一起回答第二個建議是這樣\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 579.229, \"end\": 579.309, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 579.309, \"end\": 579.429, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 579.429, \"end\": 579.89, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"財\"}, {\"word\": \"富\", \"start\": 579.89, \"end\": 580.01, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 580.01, \"end\": 580.11, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"負\", \"start\": 580.11, \"end\": 580.43, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"擔\"}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 580.43, \"end\": 581.071, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 581.071, \"end\": 581.411, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 581.411, \"end\": 581.671, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 581.671, \"end\": 582.171, \"score\": 0.782}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 582.171, \"end\": 582.292, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 582.292, \"end\": 582.432, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 582.432, \"end\": 582.872, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 582.872, \"end\": 583.272, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"否\", \"start\": 583.272, \"end\": 583.733, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"則\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 583.733, \"end\": 583.933, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"校\", \"start\": 583.933, \"end\": 584.173, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 584.173, \"end\": 584.353, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"健\", \"start\": 584.353, \"end\": 584.593, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 584.593, \"end\": 584.794, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 584.794, \"end\": 584.894, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 584.894, \"end\": 585.374, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"項\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"展\", \"start\": 585.374, \"end\": 585.774, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 585.774, \"end\": 585.894, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 585.894, \"end\": 586.035, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"足\", \"start\": 586.035, \"end\": 586.575, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 586.575, \"end\": 586.715, \"score\": 0.701}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 586.715, \"end\": 586.915, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"往\", \"start\": 586.915, \"end\": 587.396, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"健\", \"start\": 587.396, \"end\": 587.656, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 587.656, \"end\": 587.876, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 587.876, \"end\": 588.076, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 588.076, \"end\": 588.897, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, 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595.322, \"end\": 595.883, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 595.883, \"end\": 596.583, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 596.583, \"end\": 596.703, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 596.703, \"end\": 596.923, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 596.923, \"end\": 597.044, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 597.044, \"end\": 597.164, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"哪\", \"start\": 597.164, \"end\": 597.344, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 597.344, \"end\": 597.444, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 597.444, \"end\": 598.004, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 598.004, \"end\": 598.425, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 598.425, \"end\": 598.525, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 598.525, \"end\": 598.745, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 598.745, \"end\": 598.965, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 598.965, \"end\": 599.145, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 599.145, \"end\": 599.405, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 599.405, \"end\": 599.546, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 599.546, \"end\": 599.666, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 599.666, \"end\": 600.947, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"聊\", \"start\": 600.947, \"end\": 601.127, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 601.127, \"end\": 601.227, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 601.227, \"end\": 601.347, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 601.347, \"end\": 601.607, \"score\": 0.775}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 601.607, \"end\": 601.687, \"score\": 0.746}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 601.687, \"end\": 601.968, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 601.968, \"end\": 602.108, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 602.108, \"end\": 602.448, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 602.448, \"end\": 602.548, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 602.548, \"end\": 602.688, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 602.688, \"end\": 602.848, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"答\", \"start\": 602.848, \"end\": 603.048, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 603.048, \"end\": 603.188, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 603.188, \"end\": 603.269, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 603.269, \"end\": 603.369, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 603.369, \"end\": 603.509, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"答\", \"start\": 603.509, \"end\": 603.789, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 603.789, \"end\": 603.889, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 603.889, \"end\": 604.089, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 604.089, \"end\": 604.189, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 604.189, \"end\": 604.209, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}]}, {\"start\": 606.741, \"end\": 627.956, \"text\": \"我建議說看是不是因為剛剛講只有總務組長他是可以由公務人員來做那能不能夠開放讓其他組比如說我剛剛講學務處下面其他組的組長也可以由公務人員專職來做那當然這有可能會是有員額的問題就是說是不是要什麼要增加員額那這個部分我不知道可不可以請\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 606.741, \"end\": 607.181, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 607.181, \"end\": 607.702, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 607.702, \"end\": 607.862, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 607.862, \"end\": 607.942, \"score\": 0.758}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 607.942, \"end\": 608.022, \"score\": 0.761}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 608.022, \"end\": 608.222, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 608.222, \"end\": 608.622, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 608.622, \"end\": 608.702, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 608.702, \"end\": 609.603, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"組\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 609.603, \"end\": 609.743, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 609.743, \"end\": 609.863, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 609.863, \"end\": 609.983, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 609.983, \"end\": 610.083, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"由\", \"start\": 610.083, \"end\": 610.304, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 610.304, \"end\": 610.524, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 610.524, \"end\": 611.004, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 611.004, \"end\": 612.085, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 612.085, \"end\": 612.285, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 612.285, \"end\": 612.425, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 612.425, \"end\": 612.585, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 612.585, \"end\": 613.146, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 613.146, \"end\": 613.526, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 613.526, \"end\": 613.666, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 613.666, \"end\": 614.287, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"組\"}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 614.287, \"end\": 614.407, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 614.407, \"end\": 615.207, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 615.207, \"end\": 615.928, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 615.928, \"end\": 616.088, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 616.088, \"end\": 616.228, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 616.228, \"end\": 616.388, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 616.388, \"end\": 616.508, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 616.508, \"end\": 617.249, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"組\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 617.249, \"end\": 617.929, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"組\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 617.929, \"end\": 618.069, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 618.069, \"end\": 618.189, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 618.189, \"end\": 618.249, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"由\", \"start\": 618.249, \"end\": 618.67, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 618.67, \"end\": 618.91, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 618.91, \"end\": 619.79, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"專\"}, {\"word\": \"職\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 619.79, \"end\": 620.291, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 620.291, \"end\": 620.551, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 620.551, \"end\": 621.131, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 621.131, \"end\": 621.272, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 621.272, \"end\": 621.392, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 621.392, \"end\": 622.372, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 622.372, \"end\": 622.472, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 622.472, \"end\": 623.073, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"額\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 623.073, \"end\": 623.994, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 623.994, \"end\": 624.194, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 624.194, \"end\": 624.494, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 624.494, \"end\": 624.614, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 624.614, \"end\": 624.694, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 624.694, \"end\": 624.794, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 624.794, \"end\": 624.954, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 624.954, \"end\": 625.655, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 625.655, \"end\": 625.795, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 625.795, \"end\": 625.975, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 625.975, \"end\": 626.695, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"額\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 626.695, \"end\": 627.016, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 627.016, \"end\": 627.136, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 627.136, \"end\": 627.256, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 627.256, \"end\": 627.356, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 627.356, \"end\": 627.376, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 627.376, \"end\": 627.416, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 627.416, \"end\": 627.696, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 627.696, \"end\": 627.796, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 627.796, \"end\": 627.876, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 627.876, \"end\": 627.936, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 627.936, \"end\": 627.956, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"請\"}]}, {\"start\": 629.037, \"end\": 654.22, \"text\": \"人事行政總署來研議一下因為這個現象在學校是嚴重的是嚴重的我們要解決的如果沒有人願意做這件事情的話能不能讓比如說教育行政的公務人員讓他來做就可以解決這方面人才荒嘛那第二就是說我覺得還是要保障老師就是說學校可以排志願嘛第一志願我開缺出來如果老師願意兼很好對不對就解決問題你可能就不用增加員額\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 629.037, \"end\": 629.177, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 629.177, \"end\": 629.317, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 629.317, \"end\": 629.458, \"score\": 0.88}, 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{\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 651.017, \"end\": 651.218, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"兼\", \"start\": 651.218, \"end\": 651.678, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 651.678, \"end\": 651.838, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 651.838, \"end\": 652.579, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 652.579, \"end\": 652.679, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 652.679, \"end\": 652.779, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 652.779, \"end\": 653.46, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 653.46, \"end\": 653.62, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 653.62, \"end\": 653.72, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 653.72, \"end\": 653.82, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 653.82, \"end\": 653.92, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 653.92, \"end\": 653.98, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"用\", 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00:00:57,463\n那個一開始之後我們來關心一下教育的議題因為那個校園安全大家都非常關注前一兩年在新北市有發生一個土城一個國中三年級的學生被割喉其實那時候整個社會都非常震驚而且憤怒那校園安全是刻不容緩過了去年一整年我們一直在跟教育部溝通希望教育部能夠增加學校的校安人力\n\n3\n00:00:58,163 --> 00:01:12,240\n一開始的時候教育部他提出來的方案是增加一些學務處的副組長的津貼但因為我們認為說像很多副組長還是由老師來兼啦老師還是有授課壓力另外一方面\n\n4\n00:01:12,830 --> 00:01:41,576\n面對層出不窮的這些校安的問題應該要有專職的而且有訓練的人來處理所以不斷的建議之下教育部後來也很感謝教育部啦後來有增加了可以新增學務人力方案就是說讓有一些學校他可以選擇看看是不是可以有專職的校安人員但是我覺得這個進度我不是太滿意啦所以今天剛好總執行院長在希望院長也可以\n\n5\n00:01:42,236 --> 00:01:47,694\n除了政治議題之外下鄉去罵我們之外也可以關注一下教育議題這一個\n\n6\n00:01:50,629 --> 00:02:18,470\n校安人員部長也上來了我三月份的時候質詢教育部教育部跟我說現在已經請地方的教育局在調查各個學校到底要選擇專職的校安人員還是要兼職的副組長那是我三月多在教育文化委員會質詢教育部給我的答覆但是我實際上問地方縣市政府的實際的答案是還沒有開始調查所以現在很多學校都還沒有選擇\n\n7\n00:02:19,651 --> 00:02:44,947\n我想要在這邊問院長請問一下這個動作是不是可以加快因為你調查的速度越慢代表說這個政策實施的日期就越往後我們當然是希望校園安全能夠提早一天把關就提早一天我不知道說在進度上面部長可不可以或者是院長在這個場合可不可以給一個承諾什麼時候要完成調查那實際上學校的學務能力可以擴充\n\n8\n00:02:46,374 --> 00:03:06,461\n報告委員國教署已經喊請各地方政府來表達意見那這個內容請部長來說謝謝委員關心我想我們從上一個會議起這個學生輔導法院長事實上就一直非常關心怎麼樣去對中小學的輔導跟訓導學問人力不要來拖時間我們從國中這一個部分\n\n9\n00:03:14,524 --> 00:03:41,681\n陳儒剛才委員也特別提到我們事實上國教署已經今天發文已經...不要...不要一直重複我們今天委員會為什麼還要來這邊問是希望能夠得到一個更明確的答案所以不要重複我現在只要給我一個時間什麼時候要完成調查趕快讓這個政策可以實施我希望說給一個承諾不然每一次問都是說再做了再做了但是就是沒有地方在教學現場就是沒有...就是各地方政府把第一個個校的\n\n10\n00:03:42,982 --> 00:04:00,923\n那你調查到你不是一個政策實施不是這樣啦不是說抓到機關就是我有發文了啦那至於說地方政府怎麼樣不關我的事如果行政院都把態度都是這樣的話那我們教育我覺得大家要慢慢搞了啦一段話就好了一段話就好了就是今天啊\n\n11\n00:04:01,724 --> 00:04:25,607\n已經喊醒地方政府,就未來每個學校你是要申請政治學務人力或者是社政副助長不要一直重複我講話,我現在講的就是說你們已經有在調查,那什麼時候要實施嗎?因為我們已經追很久了,現在就是沒有嘛那行政院不能夠只是說我發文了啊,接下來就關我什麼事了,我要搞罷免我沒空啊\n\n12\n00:04:26,127 --> 00:04:43,024\n不要搞這樣子啦教育政策才是行政院應該要關心的啦什麼時候給我一個期限什麼時候你要一個期限嘛什麼時候要求他們一定要回報嘛不要說只要地方好像教育部都沒有責任一樣\n\n13\n00:04:44,325 --> 00:04:59,483\n大家現在感覺好像叫一步無所謂地方政府你慢也沒我的事如果你慢都是你地方政府的事跟我中央政府無關我搞政治就好教育跟我無關你們這種態度大家不能接受啦部長什麼時候可以嗎什麼時候等等\n\n14\n00:05:04,929 --> 00:05:29,855\n五月地方順利是什麼意思你會去溝通嗎你會請地方快一點嗎還是你覺得沒有關係因為公民的文書它要給地方有一個至少一個禮拜的一個調查時間不是至少一個禮拜部長在交易文化委員會你們已經講說啟動很久了在今年已經有編有預算本來就是要支持這一工院長今天在這邊啦院長你可能不了解啦我們在委員會其實已經質詢過非常多次那每一次的答案都是說調查中\n\n15\n00:05:30,555 --> 00:05:51,844\n那調查中是要調查一年呢還是兩年呢還是五年所以才會在這邊請部長沒有問題我在跟院長講話不好意思院長我在跟你講話可不可以請部長不要插話因為今天是因為在委員會找部長沒有用所以才來院長告訴您說我們在委員會已經講非常多次\n\n16\n00:05:53,585 --> 00:06:21,027\n教育部一直說調查中調查中調查中調查很久了所以今天才來告訴院長教育的議題也希望您費點心院長很多政策教育交通經濟環保各方面都要費點心政治我知道你很重視政治的東西去罵我們立委我都尊重但是也要花點時間在教育議題上面可不可以請院長跟部長講一下這個調查要多久可以出來委員的關係要很務實\n\n17\n00:06:22,648 --> 00:06:46,932\n我們現在是地方的意見分歧所以用統一發展的方式地方的意見沒有分歧喔我的了解是說到底是要學務人力還是要副組長地方都是不同地方對於增加人力都是歡迎的現在就是要對所以請你們快點去溝通好不好可不可以給一個期限我們絕對會到剛剛部長所說的時間那也請委員用你的方式能夠比較公平的來點什麼時間剛剛部長已經說的時間了什麼時候\n\n18\n00:06:50,922 --> 00:07:19,053\n什麼時候開始是我剛才已經講了公文書的來往因為我在講話你插話我就聽不見你講什麼嘛大家執行執行就一來一往不要大家都大家在講話我當然聽不見嘛你剛剛說幾個月你剛剛說幾號有那麼難懂嗎不是因為我在講話你插話我聽不見你講什麼好不好不是你難懂你在講話怎麼懂我的意思是公文我們自己啊對你不用講這種好像攻擊性的語言好不好是因為你插話你看你現在我講話你又講話那當然我聽不見你講話嘛\n\n19\n00:07:20,834 --> 00:07:42,740\n教育部長可以不要插話嗎你現在就回答我什麼時間大概什麼時候五月五月喔五月喔五月就會實施嘛第二個我來關心一下現在不知道院長你知不知道現在在教育不管是國中高中都有出現一個行政大逃亡的現象院長你知道嗎行政什麼大逃亡行政大逃亡你說人力嗎\n\n20\n00:07:43,600 --> 00:08:00,551\n因為大家都不想要去兼行政職那院長您知道現在在國中高中國小是只有一個組是可以由專職的公務人員來做其他都要由老師兼任你知道嗎知道嗎那哪一個組不知道請部長說明一下\n\n21\n00:08:01,499 --> 00:08:28,166\n你不知道齁只有總務組可以有公務人員來做其他全部都有老師兼任那我現在告訴院長一個現象現在很多老師不願意去做行政職老師都不願意去做行政職所以學校怎麼去選擇哪些老師來做行政職呢都找那些最菜的剛進來的老師讓他去兼比如說去兼學務處的什麼生教組長或是其他處的什麼組長\n\n22\n00:08:29,426 --> 00:08:53,166\n這些老師剛進學校他實際上比如說他可能數學可以教得很好他國語可以教得很好但是一進來不好意思先不要教書先來做生教組長那其實這個對學生來說也是一個損失那老師也不太願意兼所以老師不願意兼那怎麼辦呢那就開代理教師的缺讓代理教師來兼這個行政職我現在是\n\n23\n00:08:54,398 --> 00:09:16,149\n兩個建議啦院長聽一下一個建議你是不是思考一下提高老師願意兼行政職的誘因因為現在做導師的津貼大概是一個月三千塊加有寒暑假對吧這個部長應該很清楚那行政職的津貼是多少錢一個月差不多四五千塊嘛\n\n24\n00:09:17,369 --> 00:09:38,111\n所以有些行政職的要兼行政職的老師會覺得說好像做導師跟做行政職那個津貼其實差不了多少所以第一個建議是能不能夠提高如果老師願意兼行政職的津貼可不可以讓有些老師願意多來做這個行政職不曉得院長可以嗎請部長衡量一下我們整個人力的規劃\n\n25\n00:09:39,229 --> 00:10:04,209\n以及未來財富的負擔怎麼樣那我覺得這個問題是要解決的否則對學校的健全的各項發展是不足那我們往健全去解決問題的方式來講所以你的意思是說提高行政職的津貼這個你覺得可以研議然後去解決這個問題解決這個問題那方式有哪一些那這個部分委員所建議的我們請部長來聊一下那等一下部長一起回答好一起回答第二個建議是這樣\n\n26\n00:10:06,741 --> 00:10:27,956\n我建議說看是不是因為剛剛講只有總務組長他是可以由公務人員來做那能不能夠開放讓其他組比如說我剛剛講學務處下面其他組的組長也可以由公務人員專職來做那當然這有可能會是有員額的問題就是說是不是要什麼要增加員額那這個部分我不知道可不可以請\n\n27\n00:10:29,037 --> 00:10:54,220\n人事行政總署來研議一下因為這個現象在學校是嚴重的是嚴重的我們要解決的如果沒有人願意做這件事情的話能不能讓比如說教育行政的公務人員讓他來做就可以解決這方面人才荒嘛那第二就是說我覺得還是要保障老師就是說學校可以排志願嘛第一志願我開缺出來如果老師願意兼很好對不對就解決問題你可能就不用增加員額\n\n28\n00:10:54,997 --> 00:11:20,100\n那老師願意兼如果沒有老師願意兼就一扣在那邊啊你找代理老師也可以那你也可以找專職的公務人員比如說他是教務行政的來做讓這件事情變得比較有彈性那比較有彈性的話就可以解決學校的人力問題這是我建議啦我不知道說院長您可不可以請教一下可不可以\n\n29\n00:11:20,962 --> 00:11:50,028\n部長的意見怎麼樣?因為有一些不只是中央預算的問題現在是要地方去我們先有問題我們來想說解決的方法是什麼然後再來討論說預算嘛因為這個是教育嘛教育大家很重視嘛如果院長你也認同部長也認同說這個問題要解決我們應該是思考先把方案提出來再去想說這個財務怎麼去支援嘛我們先解決前面的問題了解部長他的想法再請人事長來綜合說明\n\n30\n00:11:51,835 --> 00:12:12,656\n跟委員報告我想委員所關心的事實上也是我們教育部跟行政院一直都關心的怎麼樣降低老師的負擔然後包括學校的校事的事務的處理能夠有專人處理這也是為什麼我們在國中這一個區塊裡面優先增加校務校事人力那另外一個怎麼樣去增加各個\n\n31\n00:12:14,298 --> 00:12:33,427\n這個處事的這些行政專職人員我想他也涉及到國民教育事實上歸屬地方自治的一個管轄我們這邊會跟地方來討論來研議看怎麼樣能夠有一個更好的一個對中小學一個行政上的一個支持的一個制度\n\n32\n00:12:34,647 --> 00:13:02,271\n有講跟沒講一樣沒關係我把問題跟院長講了啦院長現在教學現場就是有這個狀況那看院長您願不願意找部長或地方政府大家召集一下看看怎麼提出一個好的對策來解決這個問題減輕老師的負擔讓家長也放心這是一個其實大家都在談的話題啦只是說你們都不重視我今天拿來這邊講還有我剛剛講那個校安人力目前教育部提出來的方案是一個嘛對不對\n\n33\n00:13:02,731 --> 00:13:26,403\n我想我們在這個既有的機會裡面我們逐步來目前的方案是如果國中增加校園人員是增加一個對不對一個可是部長你知道高中啦高中是幾個班一個校園人員你知道嗎高中大概你新增的是國中嘛我現在問你你知道高中大概幾個班一個校園人員你知道嗎\n\n34\n00:13:32,023 --> 00:13:54,333\n大概六個班就一個校安人員但是我們現在國中新增的校安人員就是教育部提出來方案說五月份要實施的這個方案是六十班以上一個校安人員那現在的高中生需要校安人員不比高中需要所以我覺得當然部長你會提到說是不是財務問題什麼之類的\n\n35\n00:13:56,823 --> 00:14:20,880\n校園人員越多對校園安全越有保障所以是不是可以朝向增加的這個角度去至少比照高中嘛高中有這個需要國中應該也有這個需要啊那高中是六個班一個國中六十班一個這個差距太大所以我是不是能夠在這邊也跟部長反映啊跟院長反映就是國中的校園人員人數能不能比照高中的比例六個班一個\n\n36\n00:14:21,830 --> 00:14:34,856\n報告委員這真的要跟地方政府好好談未來人事費的負擔是在地方政府國中的部分你教育部也可以補助啊我現在跟你講教育的議題你覺得這個有沒有必要做如果有必要做再來談下面嘛\n\n37\n00:14:43,560 --> 00:15:05,897\n我現在談的是有沒有必要做就是你認為國中的校園人員到底有沒有這個需要如果你也認同部長也認同那當然大家就可以思考說這個財務怎麼去分配嘛那如果你一開始就說我不知道我沒錢啊你要問就問地方政府啊關我中央什麼事這個態度就不OK有必要做的事情很多那這件事情真的要跟地方政府去談\n\n38\n00:15:07,738 --> 00:15:26,846\n我覺得有必要做啦至於說怎麼跟地方政府談那當然就拜託教育部嘛努力嘛因為校園安全真的是大家很關注的一個現象教育部再跟地方政府好好的溝通了解一下地方的意見不要多推給地方政府啦行政院長也要有主見\n\n39\n00:15:28,491 --> 00:15:51,516\n再來我想請教一下別的議題我們現在因為美國川普的關稅政策我有看到經濟部長講說他非常認同吃苦當吃補這句話然後郭智慧部長也有提到不經一番寒澈谷,焉得梅花撲鼻香\n\n40\n00:15:52,318 --> 00:16:16,310\n那其實這句話已經在預測台灣要進入到一段吃苦的時代了然後也要經歷過這個寒澈苦的時代了先問一下郭部長或院長也可以幫忙回答請問一下我們接下來要面臨怎樣的苦跟怎麼樣的寒澈苦這個是形容詞吧我想那個小學大概五年級左右\n\n41\n00:16:17,062 --> 00:16:33,125\n就可以讀過這一篇你這個比喻嘛我現在問你實際上套用在川普的關稅政策我們接下來要面臨到什麼樣的寒測股嘛台灣我是在講那個情境台灣不會到你所說的嘛\n\n42\n00:16:33,857 --> 00:16:57,595\n那你認為韓測股台灣配到我所說的為什麼要講不進一般韓測股話都給你講就好了那請問一下吃苦當吃補我們吃苦當...那請你告訴我你的韓測股是什麼情境我來回答你的問題部長這句話是你講的不要反質詢好不好這句話是你講的好那戴總統講說請大家吃苦當吃補請問一下我們接下來要吃什麼苦\n\n43\n00:16:58,444 --> 00:17:12,825\n因為部長你很認同賴總統講的吃苦當吃補嘛這是鼓勵的話鼓勵的話有的人像我以前小的時候早上要睡到八點才起床現在我六點起床我也是吃苦\n\n44\n00:17:13,843 --> 00:17:30,898\n動作吃飽啊你說你早上起床是吃苦喔好苦喔以前我都是要睡到八點那為什麼你現在為什麼你現在要六點起床為什麼要六點起床因為我要趕七點上班啊所以你覺得很苦啦坐這個位子很苦啦\n\n45\n00:17:31,806 --> 00:17:56,347\n那你不會苦那很好所以很苦不是啦今天你部長你怎麼樣你六點起床五點起床不關我們的事啦我們是在講我們是在講那個情境喔等一下請不要一直打岔好不好你吃苦或怎麼樣你是政務官因為你領納稅的錢你做事你認為很苦你可以自己決定要做不要做你可以自己決定等一下部長我還沒有問問題可不可以\n\n46\n00:17:59,089 --> 00:18:26,152\n我都沒有問問題一直打岔時間暫停特別跟委員跟部長報告一下我們施政諮詢我們採積問積答的方式進行委員官員共同使用時間特別拜託官員不用搶答委員也適當保留官員回覆的時間我們互相尊重再次呼籲時間進行\n\n47\n00:18:27,860 --> 00:18:49,083\n所以部長你覺得很苦啊這是你的事你可以選擇要做不要做大家都尊重你你覺得很苦你可以跟院長講你有點苦不想幹了或者是你跟院長講說你很苦但是你為了台灣打拚你願意繼續做大家都尊重你但現在賴總統講的吃苦當吃補他對的是國人講的\n\n48\n00:18:50,523 --> 00:19:14,270\n你們是大家委託來經營這個國家來執政所以有必要告訴國人說到底台灣人要吃什麼苦讓大家來做一個心理準備我現在問的是這件事情所以請問一下部長你認同賴清德總統講的吃苦當吃補請問一下我們的國人接下來要吃什麼苦可不可以先跟大家講一下\n\n49\n00:19:14,850 --> 00:19:36,598\n好那報告委員吃苦當作吃補這句話是鼓勵的話那麼我們會吃什麼苦每個人的程度不一樣對不對就像你吃的藥吃苦藥啊有的感覺很苦有的感覺很乾嘛這每一個人的感覺不一樣的東西很難用一個具體的事情去形容\n\n50\n00:19:37,518 --> 00:19:56,911\n我要跟你報告的是說我們碰到關稅是每一個產業不會一樣但是有碰到這個實際關稅在操作他感覺說我的可能這個訂單減少了那我可能這個客戶都在美國每一個公司情境不會一樣\n\n51\n00:19:57,791 --> 00:20:11,688\n我們經濟部會根據...謝謝部長,我已經給你很多時間講了你的意思就是說每個人吃的苦不一樣啦有的人會很苦啦,有的人不苦啦那我想問一下,幾件事情我覺得大家都非常關心\n\n52\n00:20:12,677 --> 00:20:38,908\n因為賴總統有說要用零關稅當作一個基礎去跟美國談判第二個就是要取消一些非關稅的貿易障礙那我特別去看了一下美國他關心什麼非關稅的貿易障礙幾件事情跟院長請教一下第一個米酒在美國的這個報告裡面他提到他認為台灣的料理米酒的\n\n53\n00:20:40,297 --> 00:21:04,807\n菸酒稅率太低會形成一個不公平的貿易障礙因為它的酒進來比較貴但是我們磕米酒比較低那我們的米酒我不知道院長院長之前也做過民意代表從這很長一段時間你應該記得之前曾經發生過一次米酒之亂嘛是的它的背景是因為在2003年之前我們的米酒不用稅嘛所以很便宜\n\n54\n00:21:05,467 --> 00:21:24,838\n那可是因為要加入WTO所以被要求稅要很高所以那時候甚至有人囤積一瓶酒還賣到一百八十塊所以整個造成一個米酒的大亂那後來也因為有修法啦把米酒的這個稅制又下修嘛修成每公升大概九塊嘛所以它的價錢又再平穩了\n\n55\n00:21:25,778 --> 00:21:42,636\n現在大家擔心我們在跟美國談判的時候如果美國按照他的報告認為米酒的稅制太低造成不公平我們的米酒的稅會不會被增加然後會不會造成像之前一樣的米酒的大亂\n\n56\n00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:57,557\n就是因為有之前的經驗那時候因為是蒸餾酒類它的稅制是比較高那我們認為我們已經經過那一次的調整之後米酒它變成料理米酒它裡面有加添的鹽的成分在\n\n57\n00:21:59,099 --> 00:22:19,611\n它已經不是拿來直接飲用的而是我們在料理使用的希望這一點就當作是我們自己的消費市場生活習慣我們用這個立場來跟交涉的國家來做合理的一些談話對所以不會美國講要降多少就降多少我們還是會堅持我們米酒的保護是這個意思嗎\n\n58\n00:22:22,501 --> 00:22:48,692\n我們的料理米酒現在這個狀況從以前發展到現在這個狀況我們希望維持所以料理米酒的稅制我們不會退就對了不會因為美國認為它是非關稅貿易障礙我們就退這院長講的因為米酒很重要台灣一年大概喝兩千萬米酒那個不是拿來喝啦那個是等於是民生必需品啦是煮菜用的所以希望米酒這一塊可以堅守住然後再來\n\n59\n00:22:50,848 --> 00:23:19,392\n基因改造食品因為美國也認為台灣要求基因改造食品跟非基因改造食品的原料比如說玉米大豆是使用不同的關稅編號那因為是不同的關稅編號當然就會造成不同的管制假設美國認為說基因改造跟非基因改造的原料或食品應該都一視同仁該怎麼樣怎麼樣譬如說也不能夠限制誰可以吃不可以吃校園也應該要開放那我們政府的態度是什麼\n\n60\n00:23:20,353 --> 00:23:43,849\n剛剛跟委員報告料理米酒是因為雙方在多年前我現在問那個基因食品我說我知道料理米酒因為雙方多年前有過這樣的交涉我們有這樣的立場清楚那至於其他的都還沒經過談判容許我們在談判的當中由我們談判代表照我們自己的國民健康消費習慣引用國際的標準跟科學根據大家來做合理的討論\n\n61\n00:23:45,214 --> 00:24:02,781\n我覺得以前民進黨都很堅持說基改食品不能進入校園不能說你們在野的時候講一套執政又講一套如果你們認為這個基改食品有疑慮的話當然也要站在國人的健康把關去做談判\n\n62\n00:24:04,261 --> 00:24:31,315\n然後再來一個他們認為另外一個貿易障礙就是農藥最大殘留限量的管制他們認為我們對於農藥的殘留限量管制非常複雜那想請教一下如果美國認為說應該要讓這個農藥最大限流的管制鬆一點然後甚至這個標準放寬一點我們現在政府的態度是什麼一樣這個也是我們談判的內容我們在這裡只能說還是剛剛幾個標準\n\n63\n00:24:33,855 --> 00:24:50,042\n國民的健康消費的習慣再配合國際的標準以及科學的根據我們只能用這樣來衡量都是談判的內容再來下一個美國認為我們標示台灣豬這件事情也是一個貿易障礙\n\n64\n00:24:51,545 --> 00:25:05,407\n因為為什麼會標示台灣產地就是那時候因為政府要開放萊克多巴胺來豬嘛還有放寬萊牛嘛所以大家就想說在鼓勵大家吃台灣豬所以有那個台灣豬的標章當時農業部也有推這個標章這個是志願式的\n\n65\n00:25:08,033 --> 00:25:32,135\n這個是自願式的自願式但有鼓勵嘛那現在美國如果認為說貼這個東西有貿易障礙的話那政府態度是什麼一樣是不是剛剛回答一樣嘛就會本著本著我們的這個消費習慣食品安全然後來談判授權給那個談判代表來談嘛所以不會有答案沒關係我只是提醒啦幾件事情是國人關心的\n\n66\n00:25:33,076 --> 00:25:55,781\n比如說來豬的問題、來牛的問題、農藥的問題、基改食品的問題這個都是大家關心的所以在談的時候還是要重視我們食安安全再來部長有提到這個是我們自己的業者自己用自願的方式來標示的對但是被他認為說是貿易障礙嘛那難不成到時候農業部要宣導說叫大家不要貼嗎\n\n67\n00:25:57,145 --> 00:26:22,001\n沒有有些在談判的過程中有很多可能是誤解的或是不是了解的像包括剛才講的農藥的MIL的訂定的話那第一步就是會跟美國去說明我們訂這個東西的一個方法來做相關的一個溝通好那再來還有一個被美國可能列為非關稅貿易障礙就是我們貨物稅因為他們非常重視他們車進來之後價格多少\n\n68\n00:26:24,414 --> 00:26:35,781\n那這個價格除了關稅之外還有一個貨物稅因為台灣貨物稅很高啦美國車在美國當地賣可能沒有那個貨物稅這麼高嘛那在台灣忽然就加了25%到30%的稅上去\n\n69\n00:26:37,776 --> 00:27:04,221\n那我不知道說其實貨物稅的檢討很多人都提出來過啦因為貨物稅是一個比較老的稅最早推出來的時候那時候是把它當作奢侈性貨品科稅最早的時候認為說你就少買點東西啦那現在當然政府有用其他的目的來賦予貨物稅另外的目標啦可是其實我覺得政府也可以利用這個機會思考一下貨物稅有課的必要嗎\n\n70\n00:27:06,579 --> 00:27:29,570\n我們現在國人買個汽車也要被課貨物稅25%到30%買一個機車被課貨物稅買個飲料也要課貨物稅中華民國萬萬稅那以之前財政部不願意改現在美國要我把這個視為非關稅貿易障礙我覺得財政部是不是可以藉這個機會改革一下嘛\n\n71\n00:27:30,330 --> 00:27:55,429\n改革一下你把那個貨物稅降低啊降低然後讓大家不要買個飲料都要課稅就像娛樂稅一樣現在政府都鼓勵大家去看電影鼓勵大家去看藝文活動結果我們去看電影去看藝文活動要被課稅要繳稅給政府你還花錢文化部還編錢叫大家去從事藝文活動鼓勵你給你文化幣然後一方面你去從事呢再給你課稅從娛樂稅拿回來\n\n72\n00:27:57,945 --> 00:28:08,578\n這個稅已經自相矛盾了那貨物稅一樣我們現在工商社會啊鼓勵消費嘛沒有你買東西不好意思你要買是不是請你給錢你買車25%到30%這個是國內也有課喔國外國內都有課喔所以\n\n73\n00:28:14,707 --> 00:28:35,677\n我不知道財政部願不願意院長我覺得趁這個機會稅制改革一下把貨物稅的問題也通盤檢討一下可以嗎貨物稅的檢討是很多年在檢討因為它歷史上因素我覺得它也不是針對奢侈性的那現在說它貨物稅是要大家承擔道路使用降低什麼污染\n\n74\n00:28:36,898 --> 00:29:04,748\n交通工具這麼普通使用你已經有課那牌照稅啊都應該重新考量你有課別的稅了啊我們太舊換新也有貨物稅的補助是不是在這樣的計算方式你沒有貨物稅的話大家搞不好更想要太舊換新啊因為汽車變便宜了啊歷史上的課稅的理由依據越來越值得被檢討而且我們也有太舊換新甚至包括家電我們可以用這個方式來考量請財政部用這樣的機會去考量院長\n\n75\n00:29:06,489 --> 00:29:29,780\n其實你把貨物稅減免,東西變便宜,大家搞不好更刺激消費啦所以不要用刺激消費來講最後一分鐘請教一下大家最近很關心的共諜的問題因為最新的那個吳釗燮的助理共諜他知道很多我們國安會的機密行程然後曾經也在外交部長旁邊做事,其實這個是非常嚴重的問題\n\n76\n00:29:31,530 --> 00:29:56,452\n那結果我們的政府被發現對於這個人的終成考核八年沒有做過一次啊所以政府會讓大家覺得說你們一方面好像很都老是質疑別人是共諜可是在政府裡面的共諜你沒有那麼在乎啊八年才做一次終成考核我想請教一下按照規定像這一種這麼重要職務的人應該多久做一次終成考核\n\n77\n00:29:56,792 --> 00:30:16,413\n我們會依照現在的規定如果規定不足我們加以馬上啟動我現在就問你嘛現在規定是多久要做一次中程考核出國前要做一次回國也要做然後如果沒有出入境的話多久要做一次如果出國一定要事先有報備的動作回來之後也要有詳細的報告\n\n78\n00:30:17,936 --> 00:30:46,993\n這個是我們現在如果沒有這個規定一定要加嚴如果有這個規定沒有做到我們檢討之後要強力的實施院長我的問題是說你多久做應該按照規定多久要做一次中程考核尤其是像這種國安會秘書長的秘書外交部長秘書多久要做一次你再回答我多我認為啦隨著沒有沒有按照現在規定多久要隨著職務等級的不同我們要做不同的設計那多久嘛像他多久要做一次你覺得才合理像他多久做一次你覺得才合理\n\n79\n00:30:47,438 --> 00:31:04,406\n我覺得他應該很嚴謹的要做多久一次這問題能回答嗎就多久因為他八年都沒做過我覺得不合理嘛你覺得他多久一次就回答這就好我現在在檢討如果說院長的散作問題散成這樣能夠年年讓我們知道他所用的人數好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n21886\t22327\t麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n34538\t57463\t那個一開始之後我們來關心一下教育的議題因為那個校園安全大家都非常關注前一兩年在新北市有發生一個土城一個國中三年級的學生被割喉其實那時候整個社會都非常震驚而且憤怒那校園安全是刻不容緩過了去年一整年我們一直在跟教育部溝通希望教育部能夠增加學校的校安人力\n58163\t72240\t一開始的時候教育部他提出來的方案是增加一些學務處的副組長的津貼但因為我們認為說像很多副組長還是由老師來兼啦老師還是有授課壓力另外一方面\n72830\t101576\t面對層出不窮的這些校安的問題應該要有專職的而且有訓練的人來處理所以不斷的建議之下教育部後來也很感謝教育部啦後來有增加了可以新增學務人力方案就是說讓有一些學校他可以選擇看看是不是可以有專職的校安人員但是我覺得這個進度我不是太滿意啦所以今天剛好總執行院長在希望院長也可以\n102236\t107694\t除了政治議題之外下鄉去罵我們之外也可以關注一下教育議題這一個\n110629\t138470\t校安人員部長也上來了我三月份的時候質詢教育部教育部跟我說現在已經請地方的教育局在調查各個學校到底要選擇專職的校安人員還是要兼職的副組長那是我三月多在教育文化委員會質詢教育部給我的答覆但是我實際上問地方縣市政府的實際的答案是還沒有開始調查所以現在很多學校都還沒有選擇\n139651\t164947\t我想要在這邊問院長請問一下這個動作是不是可以加快因為你調查的速度越慢代表說這個政策實施的日期就越往後我們當然是希望校園安全能夠提早一天把關就提早一天我不知道說在進度上面部長可不可以或者是院長在這個場合可不可以給一個承諾什麼時候要完成調查那實際上學校的學務能力可以擴充\n166374\t186461\t報告委員 國教署已經喊請各地方政府來表達意見那這個內容請部長來說謝謝委員關心我想我們從上一個會議起這個學生輔導法院長事實上就一直非常關心怎麼樣去對中小學的輔導跟訓導學問人力不要來拖時間我們從國中這一個部分\n194524\t221681\t陳儒剛才委員也特別提到我們事實上國教署已經今天發文已經...不要...不要一直重複我們今天委員會為什麼還要來這邊問是希望能夠得到一個更明確的答案所以不要重複我現在只要給我一個時間什麼時候要完成調查趕快讓這個政策可以實施我希望說給一個承諾不然每一次問都是說再做了再做了但是就是沒有地方在教學現場就是沒有...就是各地方政府把第一個個校的\n222982\t240923\t那你調查到你不是一個政策實施不是這樣啦不是說抓到機關就是我有發文了啦那至於說地方政府怎麼樣不關我的事如果行政院都把態度都是這樣的話那我們教育我覺得大家要慢慢搞了啦一段話就好了一段話就好了就是今天啊\n241724\t265607\t已經喊醒地方政府,就未來每個學校你是要申請政治學務人力或者是社政副助長不要一直重複我講話,我現在講的就是說你們已經有在調查,那什麼時候要實施嗎?因為我們已經追很久了,現在就是沒有嘛那行政院不能夠只是說我發文了啊,接下來就關我什麼事了,我要搞罷免我沒空啊\n266127\t283024\t不要搞這樣子啦教育政策才是行政院應該要關心的啦什麼時候給我一個期限什麼時候你要一個期限嘛什麼時候要求他們一定要回報嘛不要說只要地方好像教育部都沒有責任一樣\n284325\t299483\t大家現在感覺好像叫一步無所謂地方政府你慢也沒我的事如果你慢都是你地方政府的事跟我中央政府無關我搞政治就好教育跟我無關你們這種態度大家不能接受啦部長什麼時候可以嗎什麼時候等等\n304929\t329855\t五月 地方順利是什麼意思 你會去溝通嗎 你會請地方快一點嗎還是你覺得沒有關係因為公民的文書它要給地方有一個至少一個禮拜的一個調查時間不是至少一個禮拜 部長在交易文化委員會 你們已經講說啟動很久了在今年已經有編有預算 本來就是要支持這一工院長今天在這邊啦 院長你可能不了解啦我們在委員會其實已經質詢過非常多次那每一次的答案都是說調查中\n330555\t351844\t那調查中是要調查一年呢 還是兩年呢 還是五年所以才會在這邊請部長沒有問題 我在跟院長講話不好意思 院長我在跟你講話 可不可以請部長不要插話因為今天是因為在委員會找部長沒有用所以才來院長告訴您說 我們在委員會已經講非常多次\n353585\t381027\t教育部一直說調查中調查中調查中調查很久了所以今天才來告訴院長教育的議題也希望您費點心院長很多政策教育交通經濟環保各方面都要費點心政治我知道你很重視政治的東西去罵我們立委我都尊重但是也要花點時間在教育議題上面可不可以請院長跟部長講一下這個調查要多久可以出來委員的關係要很務實\n382648\t406932\t我們現在是地方的意見分歧所以用統一發展的方式地方的意見沒有分歧喔我的了解是說到底是要學務人力還是要副組長地方都是不同地方對於增加人力都是歡迎的現在就是要對所以請你們快點去溝通好不好可不可以給一個期限我們絕對會到剛剛部長所說的時間那也請委員用你的方式能夠比較公平的來點什麼時間剛剛部長已經說的時間了什麼時候\n410922\t439053\t什麼時候開始是我剛才已經講了公文書的來往因為我在講話你插話我就聽不見你講什麼嘛大家執行執行就一來一往不要大家都大家在講話我當然聽不見嘛你剛剛說幾個月你剛剛說幾號有那麼難懂嗎不是因為我在講話你插話我聽不見你講什麼好不好不是你難懂你在講話怎麼懂我的意思是公文我們自己啊對你不用講這種好像攻擊性的語言好不好是因為你插話你看你現在我講話你又講話那當然我聽不見你講話嘛\n440834\t462740\t教育部長可以不要插話嗎你現在就回答我什麼時間大概什麼時候五月五月喔五月喔五月就會實施嘛第二個我來關心一下現在不知道院長你知不知道現在在教育不管是國中高中都有出現一個行政大逃亡的現象院長你知道嗎行政什麼大逃亡行政大逃亡你說人力嗎\n463600\t480551\t因為大家都不想要去兼行政職那院長您知道現在在國中高中國小是只有一個組是可以由專職的公務人員來做其他都要由老師兼任你知道嗎知道嗎那哪一個組不知道請部長說明一下\n481499\t508166\t你不知道齁 只有總務組可以有公務人員來做其他全部都有老師兼任那我現在告訴院長一個現象現在很多老師不願意去做行政職老師都不願意去做行政職所以學校怎麼去選擇哪些老師來做行政職呢都找那些最菜的 剛進來的老師讓他去兼比如說去兼學務處的什麼生教組長或是其他處的什麼組長\n509426\t533166\t這些老師剛進學校他實際上比如說他可能數學可以教得很好他國語可以教得很好但是一進來不好意思先不要教書先來做生教組長那其實這個對學生來說也是一個損失那老師也不太願意兼所以老師不願意兼那怎麼辦呢那就開代理教師的缺讓代理教師來兼這個行政職我現在是\n534398\t556149\t兩個建議啦 院長聽一下一個建議 你是不是思考一下提高老師願意兼行政職的誘因因為現在做導師的津貼大概是一個月三千塊加有寒暑假對吧 這個部長應該很清楚那行政職的津貼是多少錢一個月差不多四五千塊嘛\n557369\t578111\t所以有些行政職的要兼行政職的老師會覺得說好像做導師跟做行政職那個津貼其實差不了多少所以第一個建議是能不能夠提高如果老師願意兼行政職的津貼可不可以讓有些老師願意多來做這個行政職不曉得院長可以嗎請部長衡量一下我們整個人力的規劃\n579229\t604209\t以及未來財富的負擔怎麼樣那我覺得這個問題是要解決的否則對學校的健全的各項發展是不足那我們往健全去解決問題的方式來講所以你的意思是說提高行政職的津貼這個你覺得可以研議然後去解決這個問題解決這個問題那方式有哪一些那這個部分委員所建議的我們請部長來聊一下那等一下部長一起回答好一起回答第二個建議是這樣\n606741\t627956\t我建議說看是不是因為剛剛講只有總務組長他是可以由公務人員來做那能不能夠開放讓其他組比如說我剛剛講學務處下面其他組的組長也可以由公務人員專職來做那當然這有可能會是有員額的問題就是說是不是要什麼要增加員額那這個部分我不知道可不可以請\n629037\t654220\t人事行政總署來研議一下因為這個現象在學校是嚴重的是嚴重的我們要解決的如果沒有人願意做這件事情的話能不能讓比如說教育行政的公務人員讓他來做就可以解決這方面人才荒嘛那第二就是說我覺得還是要保障老師就是說學校可以排志願嘛第一志願我開缺出來如果老師願意兼很好對不對就解決問題你可能就不用增加員額\n654997\t680100\t那老師願意兼如果沒有老師願意兼就一扣在那邊啊你找代理老師也可以那你也可以找專職的公務人員比如說他是教務行政的來做讓這件事情變得比較有彈性那比較有彈性的話就可以解決學校的人力問題這是我建議啦我不知道說院長您可不可以請教一下可不可以\n680962\t710028\t部長的意見怎麼樣?因為有一些不只是中央預算的問題現在是要地方去我們先有問題我們來想說解決的方法是什麼然後再來討論說預算嘛因為這個是教育嘛教育大家很重視嘛如果院長你也認同部長也認同說這個問題要解決我們應該是思考先把方案提出來再去想說這個財務怎麼去支援嘛我們先解決前面的問題了解部長他的想法再請人事長來綜合說明\n711835\t732656\t跟委員報告我想委員所關心的事實上也是我們教育部跟行政院一直都關心的怎麼樣降低老師的負擔然後包括學校的校事的事務的處理能夠有專人處理這也是為什麼我們在國中這一個區塊裡面優先增加校務校事人力那另外一個怎麼樣去增加各個\n734298\t753427\t這個處事的這些行政專職人員我想他也涉及到國民教育事實上歸屬地方自治的一個管轄我們這邊會跟地方來討論來研議看怎麼樣能夠有一個更好的一個對中小學一個行政上的一個支持的一個制度\n754647\t782271\t有講跟沒講一樣沒關係我把問題跟院長講了啦院長現在教學現場就是有這個狀況那看院長您願不願意找部長或地方政府大家召集一下看看怎麼提出一個好的對策來解決這個問題減輕老師的負擔讓家長也放心這是一個其實大家都在談的話題啦只是說你們都不重視我今天拿來這邊講還有我剛剛講那個校安人力目前教育部提出來的方案是一個嘛對不對\n782731\t806403\t我想我們在這個既有的機會裡面我們逐步來目前的方案是如果國中增加校園人員是增加一個對不對一個可是部長你知道高中啦高中是幾個班一個校園人員你知道嗎高中大概你新增的是國中嘛我現在問你你知道高中大概幾個班一個校園人員你知道嗎\n812023\t834333\t大概六個班就一個校安人員但是我們現在國中新增的校安人員就是教育部提出來方案說五月份要實施的這個方案是六十班以上一個校安人員那現在的高中生需要校安人員不比高中需要所以我覺得當然部長你會提到說是不是財務問題什麼之類的\n836823\t860880\t校園人員越多對校園安全越有保障所以是不是可以朝向增加的這個角度去至少比照高中嘛高中有這個需要國中應該也有這個需要啊那高中是六個班一個國中六十班一個這個差距太大所以我是不是能夠在這邊也跟部長反映啊跟院長反映就是國中的校園人員人數能不能比照高中的比例六個班一個\n861830\t874856\t報告委員這真的要跟地方政府好好談未來人事費的負擔是在地方政府國中的部分你教育部也可以補助啊我現在跟你講教育的議題你覺得這個有沒有必要做如果有必要做再來談下面嘛\n883560\t905897\t我現在談的是有沒有必要做就是你認為國中的校園人員到底有沒有這個需要如果你也認同部長也認同那當然大家就可以思考說這個財務怎麼去分配嘛那如果你一開始就說我不知道我沒錢啊你要問就問地方政府啊關我中央什麼事這個態度就不OK有必要做的事情很多那這件事情真的要跟地方政府去談\n907738\t926846\t我覺得有必要做啦至於說怎麼跟地方政府談那當然就拜託教育部嘛 努力嘛因為校園安全真的是大家很關注的一個現象教育部再跟地方政府好好的溝通了解一下地方的意見不要多推給地方政府啦行政院長也要有主見\n928491\t951516\t再來我想請教一下別的議題我們現在因為美國川普的關稅政策我有看到經濟部長講說他非常認同吃苦當吃補這句話然後郭智慧部長也有提到不經一番寒澈谷,焉得梅花撲鼻香\n952318\t976310\t那其實這句話已經在預測台灣要進入到一段吃苦的時代了然後也要經歷過這個寒澈苦的時代了先問一下郭部長或院長也可以幫忙回答請問一下我們接下來要面臨怎樣的苦跟怎麼樣的寒澈苦這個是形容詞吧我想那個小學大概五年級左右\n977062\t993125\t就可以讀過這一篇你這個比喻嘛我現在問你實際上套用在川普的關稅政策我們接下來要面臨到什麼樣的寒測股嘛台灣我是在講那個情境台灣不會到你所說的嘛\n993857\t1017595\t那你認為韓測股台灣配到我所說的為什麼要講不進一般韓測股話都給你講就好了那請問一下吃苦當吃補我們吃苦當...那請你告訴我你的韓測股是什麼情境我來回答你的問題部長這句話是你講的不要反質詢好不好這句話是你講的好那戴總統講說請大家吃苦當吃補請問一下我們接下來要吃什麼苦\n1018444\t1032825\t因為部長你很認同賴總統講的吃苦當吃補嘛這是鼓勵的話鼓勵的話有的人像我以前小的時候早上要睡到八點才起床現在我六點起床我也是吃苦\n1033843\t1050898\t動作吃飽啊你說你早上起床是吃苦喔好苦喔以前我都是要睡到八點那為什麼你現在為什麼你現在要六點起床為什麼要六點起床因為我要趕七點上班啊所以你覺得很苦啦坐這個位子很苦啦\n1051806\t1076347\t那你不會苦那很好所以很苦不是啦今天你部長你怎麼樣你六點起床五點起床不關我們的事啦我們是在講我們是在講那個情境喔等一下請不要一直打岔好不好你吃苦或怎麼樣你是政務官因為你領納稅的錢你做事你認為很苦你可以自己決定要做不要做你可以自己決定等一下部長我還沒有問問題可不可以\n1079089\t1106152\t我都沒有問問題一直打岔時間暫停特別跟委員跟部長報告一下我們施政諮詢我們採積問積答的方式進行委員官員共同使用時間特別拜託官員不用搶答委員也適當保留官員回覆的時間我們互相尊重再次呼籲時間進行\n1107860\t1129083\t所以部長你覺得很苦啊這是你的事你可以選擇要做不要做大家都尊重你你覺得很苦你可以跟院長講你有點苦不想幹了或者是你跟院長講說你很苦但是你為了台灣打拚你願意繼續做大家都尊重你但現在賴總統講的吃苦當吃補他對的是國人講的\n1130523\t1154270\t你們是大家委託來經營這個國家來執政所以有必要告訴國人說到底台灣人要吃什麼苦讓大家來做一個心理準備我現在問的是這件事情所以請問一下部長你認同賴清德總統講的吃苦當吃補請問一下我們的國人接下來要吃什麼苦可不可以先跟大家講一下\n1154850\t1176598\t好那報告委員吃苦當作吃補這句話是鼓勵的話那麼我們會吃什麼苦每個人的程度不一樣對不對就像你吃的藥吃苦藥啊有的感覺很苦有的感覺很乾嘛這每一個人的感覺不一樣的東西很難用一個具體的事情去形容\n1177518\t1196911\t我要跟你報告的是說我們碰到關稅是每一個產業不會一樣但是有碰到這個實際關稅在操作他感覺說我的可能這個訂單減少了那我可能這個客戶都在美國每一個公司情境不會一樣\n1197791\t1211688\t我們經濟部會根據...謝謝部長,我已經給你很多時間講了你的意思就是說每個人吃的苦不一樣啦有的人會很苦啦,有的人不苦啦那我想問一下,幾件事情我覺得大家都非常關心\n1212677\t1238908\t因為賴總統有說要用零關稅當作一個基礎去跟美國談判第二個就是要取消一些非關稅的貿易障礙那我特別去看了一下美國他關心什麼非關稅的貿易障礙幾件事情跟院長請教一下第一個米酒在美國的這個報告裡面他提到他認為台灣的料理米酒的\n1240297\t1264807\t菸酒稅率太低會形成一個不公平的貿易障礙因為它的酒進來比較貴但是我們磕米酒比較低那我們的米酒我不知道院長院長之前也做過民意代表從這很長一段時間你應該記得之前曾經發生過一次米酒之亂嘛是的它的背景是因為在2003年之前我們的米酒不用稅嘛所以很便宜\n1265467\t1284838\t那可是因為要加入WTO所以被要求稅要很高所以那時候甚至有人囤積一瓶酒還賣到一百八十塊所以整個造成一個米酒的大亂那後來也因為有修法啦把米酒的這個稅制又下修嘛修成每公升大概九塊嘛所以它的價錢又再平穩了\n1285778\t1302636\t現在大家擔心我們在跟美國談判的時候如果美國按照他的報告認為米酒的稅制太低造成不公平我們的米酒的稅會不會被增加然後會不會造成像之前一樣的米酒的大亂\n1303720\t1317557\t就是因為有之前的經驗那時候因為是蒸餾酒類它的稅制是比較高那我們認為我們已經經過那一次的調整之後米酒它變成料理米酒它裡面有加添的鹽的成分在\n1319099\t1339611\t它已經不是拿來直接飲用的而是我們在料理使用的希望這一點就當作是我們自己的消費市場生活習慣我們用這個立場來跟交涉的國家來做合理的一些談話對 所以不會美國講要降多少就降多少我們還是會堅持我們米酒的保護是這個意思嗎\n1342501\t1368692\t我們的料理米酒現在這個狀況從以前發展到現在這個狀況我們希望維持所以料理米酒的稅制我們不會退就對了不會因為美國認為它是非關稅貿易障礙我們就退這院長講的因為米酒很重要台灣一年大概喝兩千萬米酒那個不是拿來喝啦那個是等於是民生必需品啦是煮菜用的所以希望米酒這一塊可以堅守住然後再來\n1370848\t1399392\t基因改造食品因為美國也認為台灣要求基因改造食品跟非基因改造食品的原料比如說玉米大豆是使用不同的關稅編號那因為是不同的關稅編號當然就會造成不同的管制假設美國認為說基因改造跟非基因改造的原料或食品應該都一視同仁該怎麼樣怎麼樣譬如說也不能夠限制誰可以吃不可以吃校園也應該要開放那我們政府的態度是什麼\n1400353\t1423849\t剛剛跟委員報告料理米酒是因為雙方在多年前我現在問那個基因食品我說我知道料理米酒因為雙方多年前有過這樣的交涉我們有這樣的立場清楚那至於其他的都還沒經過談判容許我們在談判的當中由我們談判代表照我們自己的國民健康消費習慣引用國際的標準跟科學根據大家來做合理的討論\n1425214\t1442781\t我覺得以前民進黨都很堅持說基改食品不能進入校園不能說你們在野的時候講一套執政又講一套如果你們認為這個基改食品有疑慮的話當然也要站在國人的健康把關去做談判\n1444261\t1471315\t然後再來一個他們認為另外一個貿易障礙就是農藥最大殘留限量的管制他們認為我們對於農藥的殘留限量管制非常複雜那想請教一下如果美國認為說應該要讓這個農藥最大限流的管制鬆一點然後甚至這個標準放寬一點我們現在政府的態度是什麼一樣這個也是我們談判的內容我們在這裡只能說還是剛剛幾個標準\n1473855\t1490042\t國民的健康消費的習慣再配合國際的標準以及科學的根據我們只能用這樣來衡量都是談判的內容再來下一個美國認為我們標示台灣豬這件事情也是一個貿易障礙\n1491545\t1505407\t因為為什麼會標示台灣產地就是那時候因為政府要開放萊克多巴胺來豬嘛還有放寬萊牛嘛所以大家就想說在鼓勵大家吃台灣豬所以有那個台灣豬的標章當時農業部也有推這個標章這個是志願式的\n1508033\t1532135\t這個是自願式的自願式但有鼓勵嘛那現在美國如果認為說貼這個東西有貿易障礙的話那政府態度是什麼一樣是不是剛剛回答一樣嘛就會本著本著我們的這個消費習慣食品安全然後來談判授權給那個談判代表來談嘛所以不會有答案沒關係我只是提醒啦幾件事情是國人關心的\n1533076\t1555781\t比如說來豬的問題、來牛的問題、農藥的問題、基改食品的問題這個都是大家關心的所以在談的時候還是要重視我們食安安全再來 部長有提到這個是我們自己的業者自己用自願的方式來標示的對 但是被他認為說是貿易障礙嘛那難不成到時候農業部要宣導說叫大家不要貼嗎\n1557145\t1582001\t沒有 有些在談判的過程中有很多可能是誤解的或是不是了解的像包括剛才講的農藥的MIL的訂定的話那第一步就是會跟美國去說明我們訂這個東西的一個方法來做相關的一個溝通好 那再來還有一個被美國可能列為非關稅貿易障礙就是我們貨物稅因為他們非常重視他們車進來之後價格多少\n1584414\t1595781\t那這個價格除了關稅之外還有一個貨物稅因為台灣貨物稅很高啦美國車在美國當地賣可能沒有那個貨物稅這麼高嘛那在台灣忽然就加了25%到30%的稅上去\n1597776\t1624221\t那我不知道說其實貨物稅的檢討很多人都提出來過啦因為貨物稅是一個比較老的稅最早推出來的時候那時候是把它當作奢侈性貨品科稅最早的時候認為說你就少買點東西啦那現在當然政府有用其他的目的來賦予貨物稅另外的目標啦可是其實我覺得政府也可以利用這個機會思考一下貨物稅有課的必要嗎\n1626579\t1649570\t我們現在國人買個汽車也要被課貨物稅25%到30%買一個機車被課貨物稅買個飲料也要課貨物稅中華民國萬萬稅那以之前財政部不願意改現在美國要我把這個視為非關稅貿易障礙我覺得財政部是不是可以藉這個機會改革一下嘛\n1650330\t1675429\t改革一下 你把那個貨物稅降低啊降低 然後讓大家不要買個飲料都要課稅 就像娛樂稅一樣現在政府都鼓勵大家去看電影鼓勵大家去看藝文活動結果我們去看電影 去看藝文活動要被課稅 要繳稅給政府你還花錢 文化部還編錢叫大家去從事藝文活動鼓勵你 給你文化幣然後一方面你去從事呢再給你課稅 從娛樂稅拿回來\n1677945\t1688578\t這個稅已經自相矛盾了那貨物稅一樣我們現在工商社會啊鼓勵消費嘛沒有 你買東西不好意思你要買是不是請你給錢你買車25%到30%這個是國內也有課喔國外國內都有課喔所以\n1694707\t1715677\t我不知道財政部願不願意 院長 我覺得趁這個機會稅制改革一下把貨物稅的問題也通盤檢討一下 可以嗎貨物稅的檢討是很多年在檢討 因為它歷史上因素我覺得它也不是針對奢侈性的那現在說它貨物稅是要大家承擔道路使用 降低什麼污染\n1716898\t1744748\t交通工具這麼普通使用你已經有課那牌照稅啊都應該重新考量你有課別的稅了啊我們太舊換新也有貨物稅的補助是不是在這樣的計算方式你沒有貨物稅的話大家搞不好更想要太舊換新啊因為汽車變便宜了啊歷史上的課稅的理由依據越來越值得被檢討而且我們也有太舊換新甚至包括家電我們可以用這個方式來考量請財政部用這樣的機會去考量院長\n1746489\t1769780\t其實你把貨物稅減免,東西變便宜,大家搞不好更刺激消費啦所以不要用刺激消費來講最後一分鐘請教一下大家最近很關心的共諜的問題因為最新的那個吳釗燮的助理共諜他知道很多我們國安會的機密行程然後曾經也在外交部長旁邊做事,其實這個是非常嚴重的問題\n1771530\t1796452\t那結果我們的政府被發現對於這個人的終成考核八年沒有做過一次啊所以政府會讓大家覺得說你們一方面好像很都老是質疑別人是共諜可是在政府裡面的共諜你沒有那麼在乎啊八年才做一次終成考核我想請教一下按照規定像這一種這麼重要職務的人應該多久做一次終成考核\n1796792\t1816413\t我們會依照現在的規定如果規定不足我們加以馬上啟動我現在就問你嘛現在規定是多久要做一次中程考核出國前要做一次回國也要做然後如果沒有出入境的話多久要做一次如果出國一定要事先有報備的動作回來之後也要有詳細的報告\n1817936\t1846993\t這個是我們現在如果沒有這個規定一定要加嚴如果有這個規定沒有做到我們檢討之後要強力的實施院長我的問題是說你多久做應該按照規定多久要做一次中程考核尤其是像這種國安會秘書長的秘書外交部長秘書多久要做一次你再回答我多我認為啦隨著沒有沒有按照現在規定多久要隨著職務等級的不同我們要做不同的設計那多久嘛像他多久要做一次你覺得才合理像他多久做一次你覺得才合理\n1847438\t1864406\t我覺得他應該很嚴謹的要做多久一次 這問題能回答嗎就多久 因為他八年都沒做過我覺得不合理嘛 你覺得他多久一次就回答這就好我現在在檢討 如果說院長的散作問題散成這樣能夠年年讓我們知道他所用的人數好 謝謝\n","txt":"麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n那個一開始之後我們來關心一下教育的議題因為那個校園安全大家都非常關注前一兩年在新北市有發生一個土城一個國中三年級的學生被割喉其實那時候整個社會都非常震驚而且憤怒那校園安全是刻不容緩過了去年一整年我們一直在跟教育部溝通希望教育部能夠增加學校的校安人力\n一開始的時候教育部他提出來的方案是增加一些學務處的副組長的津貼但因為我們認為說像很多副組長還是由老師來兼啦老師還是有授課壓力另外一方面\n面對層出不窮的這些校安的問題應該要有專職的而且有訓練的人來處理所以不斷的建議之下教育部後來也很感謝教育部啦後來有增加了可以新增學務人力方案就是說讓有一些學校他可以選擇看看是不是可以有專職的校安人員但是我覺得這個進度我不是太滿意啦所以今天剛好總執行院長在希望院長也可以\n除了政治議題之外下鄉去罵我們之外也可以關注一下教育議題這一個\n校安人員部長也上來了我三月份的時候質詢教育部教育部跟我說現在已經請地方的教育局在調查各個學校到底要選擇專職的校安人員還是要兼職的副組長那是我三月多在教育文化委員會質詢教育部給我的答覆但是我實際上問地方縣市政府的實際的答案是還沒有開始調查所以現在很多學校都還沒有選擇\n我想要在這邊問院長請問一下這個動作是不是可以加快因為你調查的速度越慢代表說這個政策實施的日期就越往後我們當然是希望校園安全能夠提早一天把關就提早一天我不知道說在進度上面部長可不可以或者是院長在這個場合可不可以給一個承諾什麼時候要完成調查那實際上學校的學務能力可以擴充\n報告委員 國教署已經喊請各地方政府來表達意見那這個內容請部長來說謝謝委員關心我想我們從上一個會議起這個學生輔導法院長事實上就一直非常關心怎麼樣去對中小學的輔導跟訓導學問人力不要來拖時間我們從國中這一個部分\n陳儒剛才委員也特別提到我們事實上國教署已經今天發文已經...不要...不要一直重複我們今天委員會為什麼還要來這邊問是希望能夠得到一個更明確的答案所以不要重複我現在只要給我一個時間什麼時候要完成調查趕快讓這個政策可以實施我希望說給一個承諾不然每一次問都是說再做了再做了但是就是沒有地方在教學現場就是沒有...就是各地方政府把第一個個校的\n那你調查到你不是一個政策實施不是這樣啦不是說抓到機關就是我有發文了啦那至於說地方政府怎麼樣不關我的事如果行政院都把態度都是這樣的話那我們教育我覺得大家要慢慢搞了啦一段話就好了一段話就好了就是今天啊\n已經喊醒地方政府,就未來每個學校你是要申請政治學務人力或者是社政副助長不要一直重複我講話,我現在講的就是說你們已經有在調查,那什麼時候要實施嗎?因為我們已經追很久了,現在就是沒有嘛那行政院不能夠只是說我發文了啊,接下來就關我什麼事了,我要搞罷免我沒空啊\n不要搞這樣子啦教育政策才是行政院應該要關心的啦什麼時候給我一個期限什麼時候你要一個期限嘛什麼時候要求他們一定要回報嘛不要說只要地方好像教育部都沒有責任一樣\n大家現在感覺好像叫一步無所謂地方政府你慢也沒我的事如果你慢都是你地方政府的事跟我中央政府無關我搞政治就好教育跟我無關你們這種態度大家不能接受啦部長什麼時候可以嗎什麼時候等等\n五月 地方順利是什麼意思 你會去溝通嗎 你會請地方快一點嗎還是你覺得沒有關係因為公民的文書它要給地方有一個至少一個禮拜的一個調查時間不是至少一個禮拜 部長在交易文化委員會 你們已經講說啟動很久了在今年已經有編有預算 本來就是要支持這一工院長今天在這邊啦 院長你可能不了解啦我們在委員會其實已經質詢過非常多次那每一次的答案都是說調查中\n那調查中是要調查一年呢 還是兩年呢 還是五年所以才會在這邊請部長沒有問題 我在跟院長講話不好意思 院長我在跟你講話 可不可以請部長不要插話因為今天是因為在委員會找部長沒有用所以才來院長告訴您說 我們在委員會已經講非常多次\n教育部一直說調查中調查中調查中調查很久了所以今天才來告訴院長教育的議題也希望您費點心院長很多政策教育交通經濟環保各方面都要費點心政治我知道你很重視政治的東西去罵我們立委我都尊重但是也要花點時間在教育議題上面可不可以請院長跟部長講一下這個調查要多久可以出來委員的關係要很務實\n我們現在是地方的意見分歧所以用統一發展的方式地方的意見沒有分歧喔我的了解是說到底是要學務人力還是要副組長地方都是不同地方對於增加人力都是歡迎的現在就是要對所以請你們快點去溝通好不好可不可以給一個期限我們絕對會到剛剛部長所說的時間那也請委員用你的方式能夠比較公平的來點什麼時間剛剛部長已經說的時間了什麼時候\n什麼時候開始是我剛才已經講了公文書的來往因為我在講話你插話我就聽不見你講什麼嘛大家執行執行就一來一往不要大家都大家在講話我當然聽不見嘛你剛剛說幾個月你剛剛說幾號有那麼難懂嗎不是因為我在講話你插話我聽不見你講什麼好不好不是你難懂你在講話怎麼懂我的意思是公文我們自己啊對你不用講這種好像攻擊性的語言好不好是因為你插話你看你現在我講話你又講話那當然我聽不見你講話嘛\n教育部長可以不要插話嗎你現在就回答我什麼時間大概什麼時候五月五月喔五月喔五月就會實施嘛第二個我來關心一下現在不知道院長你知不知道現在在教育不管是國中高中都有出現一個行政大逃亡的現象院長你知道嗎行政什麼大逃亡行政大逃亡你說人力嗎\n因為大家都不想要去兼行政職那院長您知道現在在國中高中國小是只有一個組是可以由專職的公務人員來做其他都要由老師兼任你知道嗎知道嗎那哪一個組不知道請部長說明一下\n你不知道齁 只有總務組可以有公務人員來做其他全部都有老師兼任那我現在告訴院長一個現象現在很多老師不願意去做行政職老師都不願意去做行政職所以學校怎麼去選擇哪些老師來做行政職呢都找那些最菜的 剛進來的老師讓他去兼比如說去兼學務處的什麼生教組長或是其他處的什麼組長\n這些老師剛進學校他實際上比如說他可能數學可以教得很好他國語可以教得很好但是一進來不好意思先不要教書先來做生教組長那其實這個對學生來說也是一個損失那老師也不太願意兼所以老師不願意兼那怎麼辦呢那就開代理教師的缺讓代理教師來兼這個行政職我現在是\n兩個建議啦 院長聽一下一個建議 你是不是思考一下提高老師願意兼行政職的誘因因為現在做導師的津貼大概是一個月三千塊加有寒暑假對吧 這個部長應該很清楚那行政職的津貼是多少錢一個月差不多四五千塊嘛\n所以有些行政職的要兼行政職的老師會覺得說好像做導師跟做行政職那個津貼其實差不了多少所以第一個建議是能不能夠提高如果老師願意兼行政職的津貼可不可以讓有些老師願意多來做這個行政職不曉得院長可以嗎請部長衡量一下我們整個人力的規劃\n以及未來財富的負擔怎麼樣那我覺得這個問題是要解決的否則對學校的健全的各項發展是不足那我們往健全去解決問題的方式來講所以你的意思是說提高行政職的津貼這個你覺得可以研議然後去解決這個問題解決這個問題那方式有哪一些那這個部分委員所建議的我們請部長來聊一下那等一下部長一起回答好一起回答第二個建議是這樣\n我建議說看是不是因為剛剛講只有總務組長他是可以由公務人員來做那能不能夠開放讓其他組比如說我剛剛講學務處下面其他組的組長也可以由公務人員專職來做那當然這有可能會是有員額的問題就是說是不是要什麼要增加員額那這個部分我不知道可不可以請\n人事行政總署來研議一下因為這個現象在學校是嚴重的是嚴重的我們要解決的如果沒有人願意做這件事情的話能不能讓比如說教育行政的公務人員讓他來做就可以解決這方面人才荒嘛那第二就是說我覺得還是要保障老師就是說學校可以排志願嘛第一志願我開缺出來如果老師願意兼很好對不對就解決問題你可能就不用增加員額\n那老師願意兼如果沒有老師願意兼就一扣在那邊啊你找代理老師也可以那你也可以找專職的公務人員比如說他是教務行政的來做讓這件事情變得比較有彈性那比較有彈性的話就可以解決學校的人力問題這是我建議啦我不知道說院長您可不可以請教一下可不可以\n部長的意見怎麼樣?因為有一些不只是中央預算的問題現在是要地方去我們先有問題我們來想說解決的方法是什麼然後再來討論說預算嘛因為這個是教育嘛教育大家很重視嘛如果院長你也認同部長也認同說這個問題要解決我們應該是思考先把方案提出來再去想說這個財務怎麼去支援嘛我們先解決前面的問題了解部長他的想法再請人事長來綜合說明\n跟委員報告我想委員所關心的事實上也是我們教育部跟行政院一直都關心的怎麼樣降低老師的負擔然後包括學校的校事的事務的處理能夠有專人處理這也是為什麼我們在國中這一個區塊裡面優先增加校務校事人力那另外一個怎麼樣去增加各個\n這個處事的這些行政專職人員我想他也涉及到國民教育事實上歸屬地方自治的一個管轄我們這邊會跟地方來討論來研議看怎麼樣能夠有一個更好的一個對中小學一個行政上的一個支持的一個制度\n有講跟沒講一樣沒關係我把問題跟院長講了啦院長現在教學現場就是有這個狀況那看院長您願不願意找部長或地方政府大家召集一下看看怎麼提出一個好的對策來解決這個問題減輕老師的負擔讓家長也放心這是一個其實大家都在談的話題啦只是說你們都不重視我今天拿來這邊講還有我剛剛講那個校安人力目前教育部提出來的方案是一個嘛對不對\n我想我們在這個既有的機會裡面我們逐步來目前的方案是如果國中增加校園人員是增加一個對不對一個可是部長你知道高中啦高中是幾個班一個校園人員你知道嗎高中大概你新增的是國中嘛我現在問你你知道高中大概幾個班一個校園人員你知道嗎\n大概六個班就一個校安人員但是我們現在國中新增的校安人員就是教育部提出來方案說五月份要實施的這個方案是六十班以上一個校安人員那現在的高中生需要校安人員不比高中需要所以我覺得當然部長你會提到說是不是財務問題什麼之類的\n校園人員越多對校園安全越有保障所以是不是可以朝向增加的這個角度去至少比照高中嘛高中有這個需要國中應該也有這個需要啊那高中是六個班一個國中六十班一個這個差距太大所以我是不是能夠在這邊也跟部長反映啊跟院長反映就是國中的校園人員人數能不能比照高中的比例六個班一個\n報告委員這真的要跟地方政府好好談未來人事費的負擔是在地方政府國中的部分你教育部也可以補助啊我現在跟你講教育的議題你覺得這個有沒有必要做如果有必要做再來談下面嘛\n我現在談的是有沒有必要做就是你認為國中的校園人員到底有沒有這個需要如果你也認同部長也認同那當然大家就可以思考說這個財務怎麼去分配嘛那如果你一開始就說我不知道我沒錢啊你要問就問地方政府啊關我中央什麼事這個態度就不OK有必要做的事情很多那這件事情真的要跟地方政府去談\n我覺得有必要做啦至於說怎麼跟地方政府談那當然就拜託教育部嘛 努力嘛因為校園安全真的是大家很關注的一個現象教育部再跟地方政府好好的溝通了解一下地方的意見不要多推給地方政府啦行政院長也要有主見\n再來我想請教一下別的議題我們現在因為美國川普的關稅政策我有看到經濟部長講說他非常認同吃苦當吃補這句話然後郭智慧部長也有提到不經一番寒澈谷,焉得梅花撲鼻香\n那其實這句話已經在預測台灣要進入到一段吃苦的時代了然後也要經歷過這個寒澈苦的時代了先問一下郭部長或院長也可以幫忙回答請問一下我們接下來要面臨怎樣的苦跟怎麼樣的寒澈苦這個是形容詞吧我想那個小學大概五年級左右\n就可以讀過這一篇你這個比喻嘛我現在問你實際上套用在川普的關稅政策我們接下來要面臨到什麼樣的寒測股嘛台灣我是在講那個情境台灣不會到你所說的嘛\n那你認為韓測股台灣配到我所說的為什麼要講不進一般韓測股話都給你講就好了那請問一下吃苦當吃補我們吃苦當...那請你告訴我你的韓測股是什麼情境我來回答你的問題部長這句話是你講的不要反質詢好不好這句話是你講的好那戴總統講說請大家吃苦當吃補請問一下我們接下來要吃什麼苦\n因為部長你很認同賴總統講的吃苦當吃補嘛這是鼓勵的話鼓勵的話有的人像我以前小的時候早上要睡到八點才起床現在我六點起床我也是吃苦\n動作吃飽啊你說你早上起床是吃苦喔好苦喔以前我都是要睡到八點那為什麼你現在為什麼你現在要六點起床為什麼要六點起床因為我要趕七點上班啊所以你覺得很苦啦坐這個位子很苦啦\n那你不會苦那很好所以很苦不是啦今天你部長你怎麼樣你六點起床五點起床不關我們的事啦我們是在講我們是在講那個情境喔等一下請不要一直打岔好不好你吃苦或怎麼樣你是政務官因為你領納稅的錢你做事你認為很苦你可以自己決定要做不要做你可以自己決定等一下部長我還沒有問問題可不可以\n我都沒有問問題一直打岔時間暫停特別跟委員跟部長報告一下我們施政諮詢我們採積問積答的方式進行委員官員共同使用時間特別拜託官員不用搶答委員也適當保留官員回覆的時間我們互相尊重再次呼籲時間進行\n所以部長你覺得很苦啊這是你的事你可以選擇要做不要做大家都尊重你你覺得很苦你可以跟院長講你有點苦不想幹了或者是你跟院長講說你很苦但是你為了台灣打拚你願意繼續做大家都尊重你但現在賴總統講的吃苦當吃補他對的是國人講的\n你們是大家委託來經營這個國家來執政所以有必要告訴國人說到底台灣人要吃什麼苦讓大家來做一個心理準備我現在問的是這件事情所以請問一下部長你認同賴清德總統講的吃苦當吃補請問一下我們的國人接下來要吃什麼苦可不可以先跟大家講一下\n好那報告委員吃苦當作吃補這句話是鼓勵的話那麼我們會吃什麼苦每個人的程度不一樣對不對就像你吃的藥吃苦藥啊有的感覺很苦有的感覺很乾嘛這每一個人的感覺不一樣的東西很難用一個具體的事情去形容\n我要跟你報告的是說我們碰到關稅是每一個產業不會一樣但是有碰到這個實際關稅在操作他感覺說我的可能這個訂單減少了那我可能這個客戶都在美國每一個公司情境不會一樣\n我們經濟部會根據...謝謝部長,我已經給你很多時間講了你的意思就是說每個人吃的苦不一樣啦有的人會很苦啦,有的人不苦啦那我想問一下,幾件事情我覺得大家都非常關心\n因為賴總統有說要用零關稅當作一個基礎去跟美國談判第二個就是要取消一些非關稅的貿易障礙那我特別去看了一下美國他關心什麼非關稅的貿易障礙幾件事情跟院長請教一下第一個米酒在美國的這個報告裡面他提到他認為台灣的料理米酒的\n菸酒稅率太低會形成一個不公平的貿易障礙因為它的酒進來比較貴但是我們磕米酒比較低那我們的米酒我不知道院長院長之前也做過民意代表從這很長一段時間你應該記得之前曾經發生過一次米酒之亂嘛是的它的背景是因為在2003年之前我們的米酒不用稅嘛所以很便宜\n那可是因為要加入WTO所以被要求稅要很高所以那時候甚至有人囤積一瓶酒還賣到一百八十塊所以整個造成一個米酒的大亂那後來也因為有修法啦把米酒的這個稅制又下修嘛修成每公升大概九塊嘛所以它的價錢又再平穩了\n現在大家擔心我們在跟美國談判的時候如果美國按照他的報告認為米酒的稅制太低造成不公平我們的米酒的稅會不會被增加然後會不會造成像之前一樣的米酒的大亂\n就是因為有之前的經驗那時候因為是蒸餾酒類它的稅制是比較高那我們認為我們已經經過那一次的調整之後米酒它變成料理米酒它裡面有加添的鹽的成分在\n它已經不是拿來直接飲用的而是我們在料理使用的希望這一點就當作是我們自己的消費市場生活習慣我們用這個立場來跟交涉的國家來做合理的一些談話對 所以不會美國講要降多少就降多少我們還是會堅持我們米酒的保護是這個意思嗎\n我們的料理米酒現在這個狀況從以前發展到現在這個狀況我們希望維持所以料理米酒的稅制我們不會退就對了不會因為美國認為它是非關稅貿易障礙我們就退這院長講的因為米酒很重要台灣一年大概喝兩千萬米酒那個不是拿來喝啦那個是等於是民生必需品啦是煮菜用的所以希望米酒這一塊可以堅守住然後再來\n基因改造食品因為美國也認為台灣要求基因改造食品跟非基因改造食品的原料比如說玉米大豆是使用不同的關稅編號那因為是不同的關稅編號當然就會造成不同的管制假設美國認為說基因改造跟非基因改造的原料或食品應該都一視同仁該怎麼樣怎麼樣譬如說也不能夠限制誰可以吃不可以吃校園也應該要開放那我們政府的態度是什麼\n剛剛跟委員報告料理米酒是因為雙方在多年前我現在問那個基因食品我說我知道料理米酒因為雙方多年前有過這樣的交涉我們有這樣的立場清楚那至於其他的都還沒經過談判容許我們在談判的當中由我們談判代表照我們自己的國民健康消費習慣引用國際的標準跟科學根據大家來做合理的討論\n我覺得以前民進黨都很堅持說基改食品不能進入校園不能說你們在野的時候講一套執政又講一套如果你們認為這個基改食品有疑慮的話當然也要站在國人的健康把關去做談判\n然後再來一個他們認為另外一個貿易障礙就是農藥最大殘留限量的管制他們認為我們對於農藥的殘留限量管制非常複雜那想請教一下如果美國認為說應該要讓這個農藥最大限流的管制鬆一點然後甚至這個標準放寬一點我們現在政府的態度是什麼一樣這個也是我們談判的內容我們在這裡只能說還是剛剛幾個標準\n國民的健康消費的習慣再配合國際的標準以及科學的根據我們只能用這樣來衡量都是談判的內容再來下一個美國認為我們標示台灣豬這件事情也是一個貿易障礙\n因為為什麼會標示台灣產地就是那時候因為政府要開放萊克多巴胺來豬嘛還有放寬萊牛嘛所以大家就想說在鼓勵大家吃台灣豬所以有那個台灣豬的標章當時農業部也有推這個標章這個是志願式的\n這個是自願式的自願式但有鼓勵嘛那現在美國如果認為說貼這個東西有貿易障礙的話那政府態度是什麼一樣是不是剛剛回答一樣嘛就會本著本著我們的這個消費習慣食品安全然後來談判授權給那個談判代表來談嘛所以不會有答案沒關係我只是提醒啦幾件事情是國人關心的\n比如說來豬的問題、來牛的問題、農藥的問題、基改食品的問題這個都是大家關心的所以在談的時候還是要重視我們食安安全再來 部長有提到這個是我們自己的業者自己用自願的方式來標示的對 但是被他認為說是貿易障礙嘛那難不成到時候農業部要宣導說叫大家不要貼嗎\n沒有 有些在談判的過程中有很多可能是誤解的或是不是了解的像包括剛才講的農藥的MIL的訂定的話那第一步就是會跟美國去說明我們訂這個東西的一個方法來做相關的一個溝通好 那再來還有一個被美國可能列為非關稅貿易障礙就是我們貨物稅因為他們非常重視他們車進來之後價格多少\n那這個價格除了關稅之外還有一個貨物稅因為台灣貨物稅很高啦美國車在美國當地賣可能沒有那個貨物稅這麼高嘛那在台灣忽然就加了25%到30%的稅上去\n那我不知道說其實貨物稅的檢討很多人都提出來過啦因為貨物稅是一個比較老的稅最早推出來的時候那時候是把它當作奢侈性貨品科稅最早的時候認為說你就少買點東西啦那現在當然政府有用其他的目的來賦予貨物稅另外的目標啦可是其實我覺得政府也可以利用這個機會思考一下貨物稅有課的必要嗎\n我們現在國人買個汽車也要被課貨物稅25%到30%買一個機車被課貨物稅買個飲料也要課貨物稅中華民國萬萬稅那以之前財政部不願意改現在美國要我把這個視為非關稅貿易障礙我覺得財政部是不是可以藉這個機會改革一下嘛\n改革一下 你把那個貨物稅降低啊降低 然後讓大家不要買個飲料都要課稅 就像娛樂稅一樣現在政府都鼓勵大家去看電影鼓勵大家去看藝文活動結果我們去看電影 去看藝文活動要被課稅 要繳稅給政府你還花錢 文化部還編錢叫大家去從事藝文活動鼓勵你 給你文化幣然後一方面你去從事呢再給你課稅 從娛樂稅拿回來\n這個稅已經自相矛盾了那貨物稅一樣我們現在工商社會啊鼓勵消費嘛沒有 你買東西不好意思你要買是不是請你給錢你買車25%到30%這個是國內也有課喔國外國內都有課喔所以\n我不知道財政部願不願意 院長 我覺得趁這個機會稅制改革一下把貨物稅的問題也通盤檢討一下 可以嗎貨物稅的檢討是很多年在檢討 因為它歷史上因素我覺得它也不是針對奢侈性的那現在說它貨物稅是要大家承擔道路使用 降低什麼污染\n交通工具這麼普通使用你已經有課那牌照稅啊都應該重新考量你有課別的稅了啊我們太舊換新也有貨物稅的補助是不是在這樣的計算方式你沒有貨物稅的話大家搞不好更想要太舊換新啊因為汽車變便宜了啊歷史上的課稅的理由依據越來越值得被檢討而且我們也有太舊換新甚至包括家電我們可以用這個方式來考量請財政部用這樣的機會去考量院長\n其實你把貨物稅減免,東西變便宜,大家搞不好更刺激消費啦所以不要用刺激消費來講最後一分鐘請教一下大家最近很關心的共諜的問題因為最新的那個吳釗燮的助理共諜他知道很多我們國安會的機密行程然後曾經也在外交部長旁邊做事,其實這個是非常嚴重的問題\n那結果我們的政府被發現對於這個人的終成考核八年沒有做過一次啊所以政府會讓大家覺得說你們一方面好像很都老是質疑別人是共諜可是在政府裡面的共諜你沒有那麼在乎啊八年才做一次終成考核我想請教一下按照規定像這一種這麼重要職務的人應該多久做一次終成考核\n我們會依照現在的規定如果規定不足我們加以馬上啟動我現在就問你嘛現在規定是多久要做一次中程考核出國前要做一次回國也要做然後如果沒有出入境的話多久要做一次如果出國一定要事先有報備的動作回來之後也要有詳細的報告\n這個是我們現在如果沒有這個規定一定要加嚴如果有這個規定沒有做到我們檢討之後要強力的實施院長我的問題是說你多久做應該按照規定多久要做一次中程考核尤其是像這種國安會秘書長的秘書外交部長秘書多久要做一次你再回答我多我認為啦隨著沒有沒有按照現在規定多久要隨著職務等級的不同我們要做不同的設計那多久嘛像他多久要做一次你覺得才合理像他多久做一次你覺得才合理\n我覺得他應該很嚴謹的要做多久一次 這問題能回答嗎就多久 因為他八年都沒做過我覺得不合理嘛 你覺得他多久一次就回答這就好我現在在檢討 如果說院長的散作問題散成這樣能夠年年讓我們知道他所用的人數好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:21.886 --> 00:22.327\n麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n\n00:34.538 --> 00:57.463\n那個一開始之後我們來關心一下教育的議題因為那個校園安全大家都非常關注前一兩年在新北市有發生一個土城一個國中三年級的學生被割喉其實那時候整個社會都非常震驚而且憤怒那校園安全是刻不容緩過了去年一整年我們一直在跟教育部溝通希望教育部能夠增加學校的校安人力\n\n00:58.163 --> 01:12.240\n一開始的時候教育部他提出來的方案是增加一些學務處的副組長的津貼但因為我們認為說像很多副組長還是由老師來兼啦老師還是有授課壓力另外一方面\n\n01:12.830 --> 01:41.576\n面對層出不窮的這些校安的問題應該要有專職的而且有訓練的人來處理所以不斷的建議之下教育部後來也很感謝教育部啦後來有增加了可以新增學務人力方案就是說讓有一些學校他可以選擇看看是不是可以有專職的校安人員但是我覺得這個進度我不是太滿意啦所以今天剛好總執行院長在希望院長也可以\n\n01:42.236 --> 01:47.694\n除了政治議題之外下鄉去罵我們之外也可以關注一下教育議題這一個\n\n01:50.629 --> 02:18.470\n校安人員部長也上來了我三月份的時候質詢教育部教育部跟我說現在已經請地方的教育局在調查各個學校到底要選擇專職的校安人員還是要兼職的副組長那是我三月多在教育文化委員會質詢教育部給我的答覆但是我實際上問地方縣市政府的實際的答案是還沒有開始調查所以現在很多學校都還沒有選擇\n\n02:19.651 --> 02:44.947\n我想要在這邊問院長請問一下這個動作是不是可以加快因為你調查的速度越慢代表說這個政策實施的日期就越往後我們當然是希望校園安全能夠提早一天把關就提早一天我不知道說在進度上面部長可不可以或者是院長在這個場合可不可以給一個承諾什麼時候要完成調查那實際上學校的學務能力可以擴充\n\n02:46.374 --> 03:06.461\n報告委員國教署已經喊請各地方政府來表達意見那這個內容請部長來說謝謝委員關心我想我們從上一個會議起這個學生輔導法院長事實上就一直非常關心怎麼樣去對中小學的輔導跟訓導學問人力不要來拖時間我們從國中這一個部分\n\n03:14.524 --> 03:41.681\n陳儒剛才委員也特別提到我們事實上國教署已經今天發文已經...不要...不要一直重複我們今天委員會為什麼還要來這邊問是希望能夠得到一個更明確的答案所以不要重複我現在只要給我一個時間什麼時候要完成調查趕快讓這個政策可以實施我希望說給一個承諾不然每一次問都是說再做了再做了但是就是沒有地方在教學現場就是沒有...就是各地方政府把第一個個校的\n\n03:42.982 --> 04:00.923\n那你調查到你不是一個政策實施不是這樣啦不是說抓到機關就是我有發文了啦那至於說地方政府怎麼樣不關我的事如果行政院都把態度都是這樣的話那我們教育我覺得大家要慢慢搞了啦一段話就好了一段話就好了就是今天啊\n\n04:01.724 --> 04:25.607\n已經喊醒地方政府,就未來每個學校你是要申請政治學務人力或者是社政副助長不要一直重複我講話,我現在講的就是說你們已經有在調查,那什麼時候要實施嗎?因為我們已經追很久了,現在就是沒有嘛那行政院不能夠只是說我發文了啊,接下來就關我什麼事了,我要搞罷免我沒空啊\n\n04:26.127 --> 04:43.024\n不要搞這樣子啦教育政策才是行政院應該要關心的啦什麼時候給我一個期限什麼時候你要一個期限嘛什麼時候要求他們一定要回報嘛不要說只要地方好像教育部都沒有責任一樣\n\n04:44.325 --> 04:59.483\n大家現在感覺好像叫一步無所謂地方政府你慢也沒我的事如果你慢都是你地方政府的事跟我中央政府無關我搞政治就好教育跟我無關你們這種態度大家不能接受啦部長什麼時候可以嗎什麼時候等等\n\n05:04.929 --> 05:29.855\n五月地方順利是什麼意思你會去溝通嗎你會請地方快一點嗎還是你覺得沒有關係因為公民的文書它要給地方有一個至少一個禮拜的一個調查時間不是至少一個禮拜部長在交易文化委員會你們已經講說啟動很久了在今年已經有編有預算本來就是要支持這一工院長今天在這邊啦院長你可能不了解啦我們在委員會其實已經質詢過非常多次那每一次的答案都是說調查中\n\n05:30.555 --> 05:51.844\n那調查中是要調查一年呢還是兩年呢還是五年所以才會在這邊請部長沒有問題我在跟院長講話不好意思院長我在跟你講話可不可以請部長不要插話因為今天是因為在委員會找部長沒有用所以才來院長告訴您說我們在委員會已經講非常多次\n\n05:53.585 --> 06:21.027\n教育部一直說調查中調查中調查中調查很久了所以今天才來告訴院長教育的議題也希望您費點心院長很多政策教育交通經濟環保各方面都要費點心政治我知道你很重視政治的東西去罵我們立委我都尊重但是也要花點時間在教育議題上面可不可以請院長跟部長講一下這個調查要多久可以出來委員的關係要很務實\n\n06:22.648 --> 06:46.932\n我們現在是地方的意見分歧所以用統一發展的方式地方的意見沒有分歧喔我的了解是說到底是要學務人力還是要副組長地方都是不同地方對於增加人力都是歡迎的現在就是要對所以請你們快點去溝通好不好可不可以給一個期限我們絕對會到剛剛部長所說的時間那也請委員用你的方式能夠比較公平的來點什麼時間剛剛部長已經說的時間了什麼時候\n\n06:50.922 --> 07:19.053\n什麼時候開始是我剛才已經講了公文書的來往因為我在講話你插話我就聽不見你講什麼嘛大家執行執行就一來一往不要大家都大家在講話我當然聽不見嘛你剛剛說幾個月你剛剛說幾號有那麼難懂嗎不是因為我在講話你插話我聽不見你講什麼好不好不是你難懂你在講話怎麼懂我的意思是公文我們自己啊對你不用講這種好像攻擊性的語言好不好是因為你插話你看你現在我講話你又講話那當然我聽不見你講話嘛\n\n07:20.834 --> 07:42.740\n教育部長可以不要插話嗎你現在就回答我什麼時間大概什麼時候五月五月喔五月喔五月就會實施嘛第二個我來關心一下現在不知道院長你知不知道現在在教育不管是國中高中都有出現一個行政大逃亡的現象院長你知道嗎行政什麼大逃亡行政大逃亡你說人力嗎\n\n07:43.600 --> 08:00.551\n因為大家都不想要去兼行政職那院長您知道現在在國中高中國小是只有一個組是可以由專職的公務人員來做其他都要由老師兼任你知道嗎知道嗎那哪一個組不知道請部長說明一下\n\n08:01.499 --> 08:28.166\n你不知道齁只有總務組可以有公務人員來做其他全部都有老師兼任那我現在告訴院長一個現象現在很多老師不願意去做行政職老師都不願意去做行政職所以學校怎麼去選擇哪些老師來做行政職呢都找那些最菜的剛進來的老師讓他去兼比如說去兼學務處的什麼生教組長或是其他處的什麼組長\n\n08:29.426 --> 08:53.166\n這些老師剛進學校他實際上比如說他可能數學可以教得很好他國語可以教得很好但是一進來不好意思先不要教書先來做生教組長那其實這個對學生來說也是一個損失那老師也不太願意兼所以老師不願意兼那怎麼辦呢那就開代理教師的缺讓代理教師來兼這個行政職我現在是\n\n08:54.398 --> 09:16.149\n兩個建議啦院長聽一下一個建議你是不是思考一下提高老師願意兼行政職的誘因因為現在做導師的津貼大概是一個月三千塊加有寒暑假對吧這個部長應該很清楚那行政職的津貼是多少錢一個月差不多四五千塊嘛\n\n09:17.369 --> 09:38.111\n所以有些行政職的要兼行政職的老師會覺得說好像做導師跟做行政職那個津貼其實差不了多少所以第一個建議是能不能夠提高如果老師願意兼行政職的津貼可不可以讓有些老師願意多來做這個行政職不曉得院長可以嗎請部長衡量一下我們整個人力的規劃\n\n09:39.229 --> 10:04.209\n以及未來財富的負擔怎麼樣那我覺得這個問題是要解決的否則對學校的健全的各項發展是不足那我們往健全去解決問題的方式來講所以你的意思是說提高行政職的津貼這個你覺得可以研議然後去解決這個問題解決這個問題那方式有哪一些那這個部分委員所建議的我們請部長來聊一下那等一下部長一起回答好一起回答第二個建議是這樣\n\n10:06.741 --> 10:27.956\n我建議說看是不是因為剛剛講只有總務組長他是可以由公務人員來做那能不能夠開放讓其他組比如說我剛剛講學務處下面其他組的組長也可以由公務人員專職來做那當然這有可能會是有員額的問題就是說是不是要什麼要增加員額那這個部分我不知道可不可以請\n\n10:29.037 --> 10:54.220\n人事行政總署來研議一下因為這個現象在學校是嚴重的是嚴重的我們要解決的如果沒有人願意做這件事情的話能不能讓比如說教育行政的公務人員讓他來做就可以解決這方面人才荒嘛那第二就是說我覺得還是要保障老師就是說學校可以排志願嘛第一志願我開缺出來如果老師願意兼很好對不對就解決問題你可能就不用增加員額\n\n10:54.997 --> 11:20.100\n那老師願意兼如果沒有老師願意兼就一扣在那邊啊你找代理老師也可以那你也可以找專職的公務人員比如說他是教務行政的來做讓這件事情變得比較有彈性那比較有彈性的話就可以解決學校的人力問題這是我建議啦我不知道說院長您可不可以請教一下可不可以\n\n11:20.962 --> 11:50.028\n部長的意見怎麼樣?因為有一些不只是中央預算的問題現在是要地方去我們先有問題我們來想說解決的方法是什麼然後再來討論說預算嘛因為這個是教育嘛教育大家很重視嘛如果院長你也認同部長也認同說這個問題要解決我們應該是思考先把方案提出來再去想說這個財務怎麼去支援嘛我們先解決前面的問題了解部長他的想法再請人事長來綜合說明\n\n11:51.835 --> 12:12.656\n跟委員報告我想委員所關心的事實上也是我們教育部跟行政院一直都關心的怎麼樣降低老師的負擔然後包括學校的校事的事務的處理能夠有專人處理這也是為什麼我們在國中這一個區塊裡面優先增加校務校事人力那另外一個怎麼樣去增加各個\n\n12:14.298 --> 12:33.427\n這個處事的這些行政專職人員我想他也涉及到國民教育事實上歸屬地方自治的一個管轄我們這邊會跟地方來討論來研議看怎麼樣能夠有一個更好的一個對中小學一個行政上的一個支持的一個制度\n\n12:34.647 --> 13:02.271\n有講跟沒講一樣沒關係我把問題跟院長講了啦院長現在教學現場就是有這個狀況那看院長您願不願意找部長或地方政府大家召集一下看看怎麼提出一個好的對策來解決這個問題減輕老師的負擔讓家長也放心這是一個其實大家都在談的話題啦只是說你們都不重視我今天拿來這邊講還有我剛剛講那個校安人力目前教育部提出來的方案是一個嘛對不對\n\n13:02.731 --> 13:26.403\n我想我們在這個既有的機會裡面我們逐步來目前的方案是如果國中增加校園人員是增加一個對不對一個可是部長你知道高中啦高中是幾個班一個校園人員你知道嗎高中大概你新增的是國中嘛我現在問你你知道高中大概幾個班一個校園人員你知道嗎\n\n13:32.023 --> 13:54.333\n大概六個班就一個校安人員但是我們現在國中新增的校安人員就是教育部提出來方案說五月份要實施的這個方案是六十班以上一個校安人員那現在的高中生需要校安人員不比高中需要所以我覺得當然部長你會提到說是不是財務問題什麼之類的\n\n13:56.823 --> 14:20.880\n校園人員越多對校園安全越有保障所以是不是可以朝向增加的這個角度去至少比照高中嘛高中有這個需要國中應該也有這個需要啊那高中是六個班一個國中六十班一個這個差距太大所以我是不是能夠在這邊也跟部長反映啊跟院長反映就是國中的校園人員人數能不能比照高中的比例六個班一個\n\n14:21.830 --> 14:34.856\n報告委員這真的要跟地方政府好好談未來人事費的負擔是在地方政府國中的部分你教育部也可以補助啊我現在跟你講教育的議題你覺得這個有沒有必要做如果有必要做再來談下面嘛\n\n14:43.560 --> 15:05.897\n我現在談的是有沒有必要做就是你認為國中的校園人員到底有沒有這個需要如果你也認同部長也認同那當然大家就可以思考說這個財務怎麼去分配嘛那如果你一開始就說我不知道我沒錢啊你要問就問地方政府啊關我中央什麼事這個態度就不OK有必要做的事情很多那這件事情真的要跟地方政府去談\n\n15:07.738 --> 15:26.846\n我覺得有必要做啦至於說怎麼跟地方政府談那當然就拜託教育部嘛努力嘛因為校園安全真的是大家很關注的一個現象教育部再跟地方政府好好的溝通了解一下地方的意見不要多推給地方政府啦行政院長也要有主見\n\n15:28.491 --> 15:51.516\n再來我想請教一下別的議題我們現在因為美國川普的關稅政策我有看到經濟部長講說他非常認同吃苦當吃補這句話然後郭智慧部長也有提到不經一番寒澈谷,焉得梅花撲鼻香\n\n15:52.318 --> 16:16.310\n那其實這句話已經在預測台灣要進入到一段吃苦的時代了然後也要經歷過這個寒澈苦的時代了先問一下郭部長或院長也可以幫忙回答請問一下我們接下來要面臨怎樣的苦跟怎麼樣的寒澈苦這個是形容詞吧我想那個小學大概五年級左右\n\n16:17.062 --> 16:33.125\n就可以讀過這一篇你這個比喻嘛我現在問你實際上套用在川普的關稅政策我們接下來要面臨到什麼樣的寒測股嘛台灣我是在講那個情境台灣不會到你所說的嘛\n\n16:33.857 --> 16:57.595\n那你認為韓測股台灣配到我所說的為什麼要講不進一般韓測股話都給你講就好了那請問一下吃苦當吃補我們吃苦當...那請你告訴我你的韓測股是什麼情境我來回答你的問題部長這句話是你講的不要反質詢好不好這句話是你講的好那戴總統講說請大家吃苦當吃補請問一下我們接下來要吃什麼苦\n\n16:58.444 --> 17:12.825\n因為部長你很認同賴總統講的吃苦當吃補嘛這是鼓勵的話鼓勵的話有的人像我以前小的時候早上要睡到八點才起床現在我六點起床我也是吃苦\n\n17:13.843 --> 17:30.898\n動作吃飽啊你說你早上起床是吃苦喔好苦喔以前我都是要睡到八點那為什麼你現在為什麼你現在要六點起床為什麼要六點起床因為我要趕七點上班啊所以你覺得很苦啦坐這個位子很苦啦\n\n17:31.806 --> 17:56.347\n那你不會苦那很好所以很苦不是啦今天你部長你怎麼樣你六點起床五點起床不關我們的事啦我們是在講我們是在講那個情境喔等一下請不要一直打岔好不好你吃苦或怎麼樣你是政務官因為你領納稅的錢你做事你認為很苦你可以自己決定要做不要做你可以自己決定等一下部長我還沒有問問題可不可以\n\n17:59.089 --> 18:26.152\n我都沒有問問題一直打岔時間暫停特別跟委員跟部長報告一下我們施政諮詢我們採積問積答的方式進行委員官員共同使用時間特別拜託官員不用搶答委員也適當保留官員回覆的時間我們互相尊重再次呼籲時間進行\n\n18:27.860 --> 18:49.083\n所以部長你覺得很苦啊這是你的事你可以選擇要做不要做大家都尊重你你覺得很苦你可以跟院長講你有點苦不想幹了或者是你跟院長講說你很苦但是你為了台灣打拚你願意繼續做大家都尊重你但現在賴總統講的吃苦當吃補他對的是國人講的\n\n18:50.523 --> 19:14.270\n你們是大家委託來經營這個國家來執政所以有必要告訴國人說到底台灣人要吃什麼苦讓大家來做一個心理準備我現在問的是這件事情所以請問一下部長你認同賴清德總統講的吃苦當吃補請問一下我們的國人接下來要吃什麼苦可不可以先跟大家講一下\n\n19:14.850 --> 19:36.598\n好那報告委員吃苦當作吃補這句話是鼓勵的話那麼我們會吃什麼苦每個人的程度不一樣對不對就像你吃的藥吃苦藥啊有的感覺很苦有的感覺很乾嘛這每一個人的感覺不一樣的東西很難用一個具體的事情去形容\n\n19:37.518 --> 19:56.911\n我要跟你報告的是說我們碰到關稅是每一個產業不會一樣但是有碰到這個實際關稅在操作他感覺說我的可能這個訂單減少了那我可能這個客戶都在美國每一個公司情境不會一樣\n\n19:57.791 --> 20:11.688\n我們經濟部會根據...謝謝部長,我已經給你很多時間講了你的意思就是說每個人吃的苦不一樣啦有的人會很苦啦,有的人不苦啦那我想問一下,幾件事情我覺得大家都非常關心\n\n20:12.677 --> 20:38.908\n因為賴總統有說要用零關稅當作一個基礎去跟美國談判第二個就是要取消一些非關稅的貿易障礙那我特別去看了一下美國他關心什麼非關稅的貿易障礙幾件事情跟院長請教一下第一個米酒在美國的這個報告裡面他提到他認為台灣的料理米酒的\n\n20:40.297 --> 21:04.807\n菸酒稅率太低會形成一個不公平的貿易障礙因為它的酒進來比較貴但是我們磕米酒比較低那我們的米酒我不知道院長院長之前也做過民意代表從這很長一段時間你應該記得之前曾經發生過一次米酒之亂嘛是的它的背景是因為在2003年之前我們的米酒不用稅嘛所以很便宜\n\n21:05.467 --> 21:24.838\n那可是因為要加入WTO所以被要求稅要很高所以那時候甚至有人囤積一瓶酒還賣到一百八十塊所以整個造成一個米酒的大亂那後來也因為有修法啦把米酒的這個稅制又下修嘛修成每公升大概九塊嘛所以它的價錢又再平穩了\n\n21:25.778 --> 21:42.636\n現在大家擔心我們在跟美國談判的時候如果美國按照他的報告認為米酒的稅制太低造成不公平我們的米酒的稅會不會被增加然後會不會造成像之前一樣的米酒的大亂\n\n21:43.720 --> 21:57.557\n就是因為有之前的經驗那時候因為是蒸餾酒類它的稅制是比較高那我們認為我們已經經過那一次的調整之後米酒它變成料理米酒它裡面有加添的鹽的成分在\n\n21:59.099 --> 22:19.611\n它已經不是拿來直接飲用的而是我們在料理使用的希望這一點就當作是我們自己的消費市場生活習慣我們用這個立場來跟交涉的國家來做合理的一些談話對所以不會美國講要降多少就降多少我們還是會堅持我們米酒的保護是這個意思嗎\n\n22:22.501 --> 22:48.692\n我們的料理米酒現在這個狀況從以前發展到現在這個狀況我們希望維持所以料理米酒的稅制我們不會退就對了不會因為美國認為它是非關稅貿易障礙我們就退這院長講的因為米酒很重要台灣一年大概喝兩千萬米酒那個不是拿來喝啦那個是等於是民生必需品啦是煮菜用的所以希望米酒這一塊可以堅守住然後再來\n\n22:50.848 --> 23:19.392\n基因改造食品因為美國也認為台灣要求基因改造食品跟非基因改造食品的原料比如說玉米大豆是使用不同的關稅編號那因為是不同的關稅編號當然就會造成不同的管制假設美國認為說基因改造跟非基因改造的原料或食品應該都一視同仁該怎麼樣怎麼樣譬如說也不能夠限制誰可以吃不可以吃校園也應該要開放那我們政府的態度是什麼\n\n23:20.353 --> 23:43.849\n剛剛跟委員報告料理米酒是因為雙方在多年前我現在問那個基因食品我說我知道料理米酒因為雙方多年前有過這樣的交涉我們有這樣的立場清楚那至於其他的都還沒經過談判容許我們在談判的當中由我們談判代表照我們自己的國民健康消費習慣引用國際的標準跟科學根據大家來做合理的討論\n\n23:45.214 --> 24:02.781\n我覺得以前民進黨都很堅持說基改食品不能進入校園不能說你們在野的時候講一套執政又講一套如果你們認為這個基改食品有疑慮的話當然也要站在國人的健康把關去做談判\n\n24:04.261 --> 24:31.315\n然後再來一個他們認為另外一個貿易障礙就是農藥最大殘留限量的管制他們認為我們對於農藥的殘留限量管制非常複雜那想請教一下如果美國認為說應該要讓這個農藥最大限流的管制鬆一點然後甚至這個標準放寬一點我們現在政府的態度是什麼一樣這個也是我們談判的內容我們在這裡只能說還是剛剛幾個標準\n\n24:33.855 --> 24:50.042\n國民的健康消費的習慣再配合國際的標準以及科學的根據我們只能用這樣來衡量都是談判的內容再來下一個美國認為我們標示台灣豬這件事情也是一個貿易障礙\n\n24:51.545 --> 25:05.407\n因為為什麼會標示台灣產地就是那時候因為政府要開放萊克多巴胺來豬嘛還有放寬萊牛嘛所以大家就想說在鼓勵大家吃台灣豬所以有那個台灣豬的標章當時農業部也有推這個標章這個是志願式的\n\n25:08.033 --> 25:32.135\n這個是自願式的自願式但有鼓勵嘛那現在美國如果認為說貼這個東西有貿易障礙的話那政府態度是什麼一樣是不是剛剛回答一樣嘛就會本著本著我們的這個消費習慣食品安全然後來談判授權給那個談判代表來談嘛所以不會有答案沒關係我只是提醒啦幾件事情是國人關心的\n\n25:33.076 --> 25:55.781\n比如說來豬的問題、來牛的問題、農藥的問題、基改食品的問題這個都是大家關心的所以在談的時候還是要重視我們食安安全再來部長有提到這個是我們自己的業者自己用自願的方式來標示的對但是被他認為說是貿易障礙嘛那難不成到時候農業部要宣導說叫大家不要貼嗎\n\n25:57.145 --> 26:22.001\n沒有有些在談判的過程中有很多可能是誤解的或是不是了解的像包括剛才講的農藥的MIL的訂定的話那第一步就是會跟美國去說明我們訂這個東西的一個方法來做相關的一個溝通好那再來還有一個被美國可能列為非關稅貿易障礙就是我們貨物稅因為他們非常重視他們車進來之後價格多少\n\n26:24.414 --> 26:35.781\n那這個價格除了關稅之外還有一個貨物稅因為台灣貨物稅很高啦美國車在美國當地賣可能沒有那個貨物稅這麼高嘛那在台灣忽然就加了25%到30%的稅上去\n\n26:37.776 --> 27:04.221\n那我不知道說其實貨物稅的檢討很多人都提出來過啦因為貨物稅是一個比較老的稅最早推出來的時候那時候是把它當作奢侈性貨品科稅最早的時候認為說你就少買點東西啦那現在當然政府有用其他的目的來賦予貨物稅另外的目標啦可是其實我覺得政府也可以利用這個機會思考一下貨物稅有課的必要嗎\n\n27:06.579 --> 27:29.570\n我們現在國人買個汽車也要被課貨物稅25%到30%買一個機車被課貨物稅買個飲料也要課貨物稅中華民國萬萬稅那以之前財政部不願意改現在美國要我把這個視為非關稅貿易障礙我覺得財政部是不是可以藉這個機會改革一下嘛\n\n27:30.330 --> 27:55.429\n改革一下你把那個貨物稅降低啊降低然後讓大家不要買個飲料都要課稅就像娛樂稅一樣現在政府都鼓勵大家去看電影鼓勵大家去看藝文活動結果我們去看電影去看藝文活動要被課稅要繳稅給政府你還花錢文化部還編錢叫大家去從事藝文活動鼓勵你給你文化幣然後一方面你去從事呢再給你課稅從娛樂稅拿回來\n\n27:57.945 --> 28:08.578\n這個稅已經自相矛盾了那貨物稅一樣我們現在工商社會啊鼓勵消費嘛沒有你買東西不好意思你要買是不是請你給錢你買車25%到30%這個是國內也有課喔國外國內都有課喔所以\n\n28:14.707 --> 28:35.677\n我不知道財政部願不願意院長我覺得趁這個機會稅制改革一下把貨物稅的問題也通盤檢討一下可以嗎貨物稅的檢討是很多年在檢討因為它歷史上因素我覺得它也不是針對奢侈性的那現在說它貨物稅是要大家承擔道路使用降低什麼污染\n\n28:36.898 --> 29:04.748\n交通工具這麼普通使用你已經有課那牌照稅啊都應該重新考量你有課別的稅了啊我們太舊換新也有貨物稅的補助是不是在這樣的計算方式你沒有貨物稅的話大家搞不好更想要太舊換新啊因為汽車變便宜了啊歷史上的課稅的理由依據越來越值得被檢討而且我們也有太舊換新甚至包括家電我們可以用這個方式來考量請財政部用這樣的機會去考量院長\n\n29:06.489 --> 29:29.780\n其實你把貨物稅減免,東西變便宜,大家搞不好更刺激消費啦所以不要用刺激消費來講最後一分鐘請教一下大家最近很關心的共諜的問題因為最新的那個吳釗燮的助理共諜他知道很多我們國安會的機密行程然後曾經也在外交部長旁邊做事,其實這個是非常嚴重的問題\n\n29:31.530 --> 29:56.452\n那結果我們的政府被發現對於這個人的終成考核八年沒有做過一次啊所以政府會讓大家覺得說你們一方面好像很都老是質疑別人是共諜可是在政府裡面的共諜你沒有那麼在乎啊八年才做一次終成考核我想請教一下按照規定像這一種這麼重要職務的人應該多久做一次終成考核\n\n29:56.792 --> 30:16.413\n我們會依照現在的規定如果規定不足我們加以馬上啟動我現在就問你嘛現在規定是多久要做一次中程考核出國前要做一次回國也要做然後如果沒有出入境的話多久要做一次如果出國一定要事先有報備的動作回來之後也要有詳細的報告\n\n30:17.936 --> 30:46.993\n這個是我們現在如果沒有這個規定一定要加嚴如果有這個規定沒有做到我們檢討之後要強力的實施院長我的問題是說你多久做應該按照規定多久要做一次中程考核尤其是像這種國安會秘書長的秘書外交部長秘書多久要做一次你再回答我多我認為啦隨著沒有沒有按照現在規定多久要隨著職務等級的不同我們要做不同的設計那多久嘛像他多久要做一次你覺得才合理像他多久做一次你覺得才合理\n\n30:47.438 --> 31:04.406\n我覺得他應該很嚴謹的要做多久一次這問題能回答嗎就多久因為他八年都沒做過我覺得不合理嘛你覺得他多久一次就回答這就好我現在在檢討如果說院長的散作問題散成這樣能夠年年讓我們知道他所用的人數好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":21.886,"end":22.327,"text":"麻煩再請卓院長備詢"},{"start":34.538,"end":57.463,"text":"那個一開始之後我們來關心一下教育的議題因為那個校園安全大家都非常關注前一兩年在新北市有發生一個土城一個國中三年級的學生被割喉其實那時候整個社會都非常震驚而且憤怒那校園安全是刻不容緩過了去年一整年我們一直在跟教育部溝通希望教育部能夠增加學校的校安人力"},{"start":58.163,"end":72.24,"text":"一開始的時候教育部他提出來的方案是增加一些學務處的副組長的津貼但因為我們認為說像很多副組長還是由老師來兼啦老師還是有授課壓力另外一方面"},{"start":72.83,"end":101.576,"text":"面對層出不窮的這些校安的問題應該要有專職的而且有訓練的人來處理所以不斷的建議之下教育部後來也很感謝教育部啦後來有增加了可以新增學務人力方案就是說讓有一些學校他可以選擇看看是不是可以有專職的校安人員但是我覺得這個進度我不是太滿意啦所以今天剛好總執行院長在希望院長也可以"},{"start":102.236,"end":107.694,"text":"除了政治議題之外下鄉去罵我們之外也可以關注一下教育議題這一個"},{"start":110.629,"end":138.47,"text":"校安人員部長也上來了我三月份的時候質詢教育部教育部跟我說現在已經請地方的教育局在調查各個學校到底要選擇專職的校安人員還是要兼職的副組長那是我三月多在教育文化委員會質詢教育部給我的答覆但是我實際上問地方縣市政府的實際的答案是還沒有開始調查所以現在很多學校都還沒有選擇"},{"start":139.651,"end":164.947,"text":"我想要在這邊問院長請問一下這個動作是不是可以加快因為你調查的速度越慢代表說這個政策實施的日期就越往後我們當然是希望校園安全能夠提早一天把關就提早一天我不知道說在進度上面部長可不可以或者是院長在這個場合可不可以給一個承諾什麼時候要完成調查那實際上學校的學務能力可以擴充"},{"start":166.374,"end":186.461,"text":"報告委員 國教署已經喊請各地方政府來表達意見那這個內容請部長來說謝謝委員關心我想我們從上一個會議起這個學生輔導法院長事實上就一直非常關心怎麼樣去對中小學的輔導跟訓導學問人力不要來拖時間我們從國中這一個部分"},{"start":194.524,"end":221.681,"text":"陳儒剛才委員也特別提到我們事實上國教署已經今天發文已經...不要...不要一直重複我們今天委員會為什麼還要來這邊問是希望能夠得到一個更明確的答案所以不要重複我現在只要給我一個時間什麼時候要完成調查趕快讓這個政策可以實施我希望說給一個承諾不然每一次問都是說再做了再做了但是就是沒有地方在教學現場就是沒有...就是各地方政府把第一個個校的"},{"start":222.982,"end":240.923,"text":"那你調查到你不是一個政策實施不是這樣啦不是說抓到機關就是我有發文了啦那至於說地方政府怎麼樣不關我的事如果行政院都把態度都是這樣的話那我們教育我覺得大家要慢慢搞了啦一段話就好了一段話就好了就是今天啊"},{"start":241.724,"end":265.607,"text":"已經喊醒地方政府,就未來每個學校你是要申請政治學務人力或者是社政副助長不要一直重複我講話,我現在講的就是說你們已經有在調查,那什麼時候要實施嗎?因為我們已經追很久了,現在就是沒有嘛那行政院不能夠只是說我發文了啊,接下來就關我什麼事了,我要搞罷免我沒空啊"},{"start":266.127,"end":283.024,"text":"不要搞這樣子啦教育政策才是行政院應該要關心的啦什麼時候給我一個期限什麼時候你要一個期限嘛什麼時候要求他們一定要回報嘛不要說只要地方好像教育部都沒有責任一樣"},{"start":284.325,"end":299.483,"text":"大家現在感覺好像叫一步無所謂地方政府你慢也沒我的事如果你慢都是你地方政府的事跟我中央政府無關我搞政治就好教育跟我無關你們這種態度大家不能接受啦部長什麼時候可以嗎什麼時候等等"},{"start":304.929,"end":329.855,"text":"五月 地方順利是什麼意思 你會去溝通嗎 你會請地方快一點嗎還是你覺得沒有關係因為公民的文書它要給地方有一個至少一個禮拜的一個調查時間不是至少一個禮拜 部長在交易文化委員會 你們已經講說啟動很久了在今年已經有編有預算 本來就是要支持這一工院長今天在這邊啦 院長你可能不了解啦我們在委員會其實已經質詢過非常多次那每一次的答案都是說調查中"},{"start":330.555,"end":351.844,"text":"那調查中是要調查一年呢 還是兩年呢 還是五年所以才會在這邊請部長沒有問題 我在跟院長講話不好意思 院長我在跟你講話 可不可以請部長不要插話因為今天是因為在委員會找部長沒有用所以才來院長告訴您說 我們在委員會已經講非常多次"},{"start":353.585,"end":381.027,"text":"教育部一直說調查中調查中調查中調查很久了所以今天才來告訴院長教育的議題也希望您費點心院長很多政策教育交通經濟環保各方面都要費點心政治我知道你很重視政治的東西去罵我們立委我都尊重但是也要花點時間在教育議題上面可不可以請院長跟部長講一下這個調查要多久可以出來委員的關係要很務實"},{"start":382.648,"end":406.932,"text":"我們現在是地方的意見分歧所以用統一發展的方式地方的意見沒有分歧喔我的了解是說到底是要學務人力還是要副組長地方都是不同地方對於增加人力都是歡迎的現在就是要對所以請你們快點去溝通好不好可不可以給一個期限我們絕對會到剛剛部長所說的時間那也請委員用你的方式能夠比較公平的來點什麼時間剛剛部長已經說的時間了什麼時候"},{"start":410.922,"end":439.053,"text":"什麼時候開始是我剛才已經講了公文書的來往因為我在講話你插話我就聽不見你講什麼嘛大家執行執行就一來一往不要大家都大家在講話我當然聽不見嘛你剛剛說幾個月你剛剛說幾號有那麼難懂嗎不是因為我在講話你插話我聽不見你講什麼好不好不是你難懂你在講話怎麼懂我的意思是公文我們自己啊對你不用講這種好像攻擊性的語言好不好是因為你插話你看你現在我講話你又講話那當然我聽不見你講話嘛"},{"start":440.834,"end":462.74,"text":"教育部長可以不要插話嗎你現在就回答我什麼時間大概什麼時候五月五月喔五月喔五月就會實施嘛第二個我來關心一下現在不知道院長你知不知道現在在教育不管是國中高中都有出現一個行政大逃亡的現象院長你知道嗎行政什麼大逃亡行政大逃亡你說人力嗎"},{"start":463.6,"end":480.551,"text":"因為大家都不想要去兼行政職那院長您知道現在在國中高中國小是只有一個組是可以由專職的公務人員來做其他都要由老師兼任你知道嗎知道嗎那哪一個組不知道請部長說明一下"},{"start":481.499,"end":508.166,"text":"你不知道齁 只有總務組可以有公務人員來做其他全部都有老師兼任那我現在告訴院長一個現象現在很多老師不願意去做行政職老師都不願意去做行政職所以學校怎麼去選擇哪些老師來做行政職呢都找那些最菜的 剛進來的老師讓他去兼比如說去兼學務處的什麼生教組長或是其他處的什麼組長"},{"start":509.426,"end":533.166,"text":"這些老師剛進學校他實際上比如說他可能數學可以教得很好他國語可以教得很好但是一進來不好意思先不要教書先來做生教組長那其實這個對學生來說也是一個損失那老師也不太願意兼所以老師不願意兼那怎麼辦呢那就開代理教師的缺讓代理教師來兼這個行政職我現在是"},{"start":534.398,"end":556.149,"text":"兩個建議啦 院長聽一下一個建議 你是不是思考一下提高老師願意兼行政職的誘因因為現在做導師的津貼大概是一個月三千塊加有寒暑假對吧 這個部長應該很清楚那行政職的津貼是多少錢一個月差不多四五千塊嘛"},{"start":557.369,"end":578.111,"text":"所以有些行政職的要兼行政職的老師會覺得說好像做導師跟做行政職那個津貼其實差不了多少所以第一個建議是能不能夠提高如果老師願意兼行政職的津貼可不可以讓有些老師願意多來做這個行政職不曉得院長可以嗎請部長衡量一下我們整個人力的規劃"},{"start":579.229,"end":604.209,"text":"以及未來財富的負擔怎麼樣那我覺得這個問題是要解決的否則對學校的健全的各項發展是不足那我們往健全去解決問題的方式來講所以你的意思是說提高行政職的津貼這個你覺得可以研議然後去解決這個問題解決這個問題那方式有哪一些那這個部分委員所建議的我們請部長來聊一下那等一下部長一起回答好一起回答第二個建議是這樣"},{"start":606.741,"end":627.956,"text":"我建議說看是不是因為剛剛講只有總務組長他是可以由公務人員來做那能不能夠開放讓其他組比如說我剛剛講學務處下面其他組的組長也可以由公務人員專職來做那當然這有可能會是有員額的問題就是說是不是要什麼要增加員額那這個部分我不知道可不可以請"},{"start":629.037,"end":654.22,"text":"人事行政總署來研議一下因為這個現象在學校是嚴重的是嚴重的我們要解決的如果沒有人願意做這件事情的話能不能讓比如說教育行政的公務人員讓他來做就可以解決這方面人才荒嘛那第二就是說我覺得還是要保障老師就是說學校可以排志願嘛第一志願我開缺出來如果老師願意兼很好對不對就解決問題你可能就不用增加員額"},{"start":654.997,"end":680.1,"text":"那老師願意兼如果沒有老師願意兼就一扣在那邊啊你找代理老師也可以那你也可以找專職的公務人員比如說他是教務行政的來做讓這件事情變得比較有彈性那比較有彈性的話就可以解決學校的人力問題這是我建議啦我不知道說院長您可不可以請教一下可不可以"},{"start":680.962,"end":710.028,"text":"部長的意見怎麼樣?因為有一些不只是中央預算的問題現在是要地方去我們先有問題我們來想說解決的方法是什麼然後再來討論說預算嘛因為這個是教育嘛教育大家很重視嘛如果院長你也認同部長也認同說這個問題要解決我們應該是思考先把方案提出來再去想說這個財務怎麼去支援嘛我們先解決前面的問題了解部長他的想法再請人事長來綜合說明"},{"start":711.835,"end":732.656,"text":"跟委員報告我想委員所關心的事實上也是我們教育部跟行政院一直都關心的怎麼樣降低老師的負擔然後包括學校的校事的事務的處理能夠有專人處理這也是為什麼我們在國中這一個區塊裡面優先增加校務校事人力那另外一個怎麼樣去增加各個"},{"start":734.298,"end":753.427,"text":"這個處事的這些行政專職人員我想他也涉及到國民教育事實上歸屬地方自治的一個管轄我們這邊會跟地方來討論來研議看怎麼樣能夠有一個更好的一個對中小學一個行政上的一個支持的一個制度"},{"start":754.647,"end":782.271,"text":"有講跟沒講一樣沒關係我把問題跟院長講了啦院長現在教學現場就是有這個狀況那看院長您願不願意找部長或地方政府大家召集一下看看怎麼提出一個好的對策來解決這個問題減輕老師的負擔讓家長也放心這是一個其實大家都在談的話題啦只是說你們都不重視我今天拿來這邊講還有我剛剛講那個校安人力目前教育部提出來的方案是一個嘛對不對"},{"start":782.731,"end":806.403,"text":"我想我們在這個既有的機會裡面我們逐步來目前的方案是如果國中增加校園人員是增加一個對不對一個可是部長你知道高中啦高中是幾個班一個校園人員你知道嗎高中大概你新增的是國中嘛我現在問你你知道高中大概幾個班一個校園人員你知道嗎"},{"start":812.023,"end":834.333,"text":"大概六個班就一個校安人員但是我們現在國中新增的校安人員就是教育部提出來方案說五月份要實施的這個方案是六十班以上一個校安人員那現在的高中生需要校安人員不比高中需要所以我覺得當然部長你會提到說是不是財務問題什麼之類的"},{"start":836.823,"end":860.88,"text":"校園人員越多對校園安全越有保障所以是不是可以朝向增加的這個角度去至少比照高中嘛高中有這個需要國中應該也有這個需要啊那高中是六個班一個國中六十班一個這個差距太大所以我是不是能夠在這邊也跟部長反映啊跟院長反映就是國中的校園人員人數能不能比照高中的比例六個班一個"},{"start":861.83,"end":874.856,"text":"報告委員這真的要跟地方政府好好談未來人事費的負擔是在地方政府國中的部分你教育部也可以補助啊我現在跟你講教育的議題你覺得這個有沒有必要做如果有必要做再來談下面嘛"},{"start":883.56,"end":905.897,"text":"我現在談的是有沒有必要做就是你認為國中的校園人員到底有沒有這個需要如果你也認同部長也認同那當然大家就可以思考說這個財務怎麼去分配嘛那如果你一開始就說我不知道我沒錢啊你要問就問地方政府啊關我中央什麼事這個態度就不OK有必要做的事情很多那這件事情真的要跟地方政府去談"},{"start":907.738,"end":926.846,"text":"我覺得有必要做啦至於說怎麼跟地方政府談那當然就拜託教育部嘛 努力嘛因為校園安全真的是大家很關注的一個現象教育部再跟地方政府好好的溝通了解一下地方的意見不要多推給地方政府啦行政院長也要有主見"},{"start":928.491,"end":951.516,"text":"再來我想請教一下別的議題我們現在因為美國川普的關稅政策我有看到經濟部長講說他非常認同吃苦當吃補這句話然後郭智慧部長也有提到不經一番寒澈谷,焉得梅花撲鼻香"},{"start":952.318,"end":976.31,"text":"那其實這句話已經在預測台灣要進入到一段吃苦的時代了然後也要經歷過這個寒澈苦的時代了先問一下郭部長或院長也可以幫忙回答請問一下我們接下來要面臨怎樣的苦跟怎麼樣的寒澈苦這個是形容詞吧我想那個小學大概五年級左右"},{"start":977.062,"end":993.125,"text":"就可以讀過這一篇你這個比喻嘛我現在問你實際上套用在川普的關稅政策我們接下來要面臨到什麼樣的寒測股嘛台灣我是在講那個情境台灣不會到你所說的嘛"},{"start":993.857,"end":1017.595,"text":"那你認為韓測股台灣配到我所說的為什麼要講不進一般韓測股話都給你講就好了那請問一下吃苦當吃補我們吃苦當...那請你告訴我你的韓測股是什麼情境我來回答你的問題部長這句話是你講的不要反質詢好不好這句話是你講的好那戴總統講說請大家吃苦當吃補請問一下我們接下來要吃什麼苦"},{"start":1018.444,"end":1032.825,"text":"因為部長你很認同賴總統講的吃苦當吃補嘛這是鼓勵的話鼓勵的話有的人像我以前小的時候早上要睡到八點才起床現在我六點起床我也是吃苦"},{"start":1033.843,"end":1050.898,"text":"動作吃飽啊你說你早上起床是吃苦喔好苦喔以前我都是要睡到八點那為什麼你現在為什麼你現在要六點起床為什麼要六點起床因為我要趕七點上班啊所以你覺得很苦啦坐這個位子很苦啦"},{"start":1051.806,"end":1076.347,"text":"那你不會苦那很好所以很苦不是啦今天你部長你怎麼樣你六點起床五點起床不關我們的事啦我們是在講我們是在講那個情境喔等一下請不要一直打岔好不好你吃苦或怎麼樣你是政務官因為你領納稅的錢你做事你認為很苦你可以自己決定要做不要做你可以自己決定等一下部長我還沒有問問題可不可以"},{"start":1079.089,"end":1106.152,"text":"我都沒有問問題一直打岔時間暫停特別跟委員跟部長報告一下我們施政諮詢我們採積問積答的方式進行委員官員共同使用時間特別拜託官員不用搶答委員也適當保留官員回覆的時間我們互相尊重再次呼籲時間進行"},{"start":1107.86,"end":1129.083,"text":"所以部長你覺得很苦啊這是你的事你可以選擇要做不要做大家都尊重你你覺得很苦你可以跟院長講你有點苦不想幹了或者是你跟院長講說你很苦但是你為了台灣打拚你願意繼續做大家都尊重你但現在賴總統講的吃苦當吃補他對的是國人講的"},{"start":1130.523,"end":1154.27,"text":"你們是大家委託來經營這個國家來執政所以有必要告訴國人說到底台灣人要吃什麼苦讓大家來做一個心理準備我現在問的是這件事情所以請問一下部長你認同賴清德總統講的吃苦當吃補請問一下我們的國人接下來要吃什麼苦可不可以先跟大家講一下"},{"start":1154.85,"end":1176.598,"text":"好那報告委員吃苦當作吃補這句話是鼓勵的話那麼我們會吃什麼苦每個人的程度不一樣對不對就像你吃的藥吃苦藥啊有的感覺很苦有的感覺很乾嘛這每一個人的感覺不一樣的東西很難用一個具體的事情去形容"},{"start":1177.518,"end":1196.911,"text":"我要跟你報告的是說我們碰到關稅是每一個產業不會一樣但是有碰到這個實際關稅在操作他感覺說我的可能這個訂單減少了那我可能這個客戶都在美國每一個公司情境不會一樣"},{"start":1197.791,"end":1211.688,"text":"我們經濟部會根據...謝謝部長,我已經給你很多時間講了你的意思就是說每個人吃的苦不一樣啦有的人會很苦啦,有的人不苦啦那我想問一下,幾件事情我覺得大家都非常關心"},{"start":1212.677,"end":1238.908,"text":"因為賴總統有說要用零關稅當作一個基礎去跟美國談判第二個就是要取消一些非關稅的貿易障礙那我特別去看了一下美國他關心什麼非關稅的貿易障礙幾件事情跟院長請教一下第一個米酒在美國的這個報告裡面他提到他認為台灣的料理米酒的"},{"start":1240.297,"end":1264.807,"text":"菸酒稅率太低會形成一個不公平的貿易障礙因為它的酒進來比較貴但是我們磕米酒比較低那我們的米酒我不知道院長院長之前也做過民意代表從這很長一段時間你應該記得之前曾經發生過一次米酒之亂嘛是的它的背景是因為在2003年之前我們的米酒不用稅嘛所以很便宜"},{"start":1265.467,"end":1284.838,"text":"那可是因為要加入WTO所以被要求稅要很高所以那時候甚至有人囤積一瓶酒還賣到一百八十塊所以整個造成一個米酒的大亂那後來也因為有修法啦把米酒的這個稅制又下修嘛修成每公升大概九塊嘛所以它的價錢又再平穩了"},{"start":1285.778,"end":1302.636,"text":"現在大家擔心我們在跟美國談判的時候如果美國按照他的報告認為米酒的稅制太低造成不公平我們的米酒的稅會不會被增加然後會不會造成像之前一樣的米酒的大亂"},{"start":1303.72,"end":1317.557,"text":"就是因為有之前的經驗那時候因為是蒸餾酒類它的稅制是比較高那我們認為我們已經經過那一次的調整之後米酒它變成料理米酒它裡面有加添的鹽的成分在"},{"start":1319.099,"end":1339.611,"text":"它已經不是拿來直接飲用的而是我們在料理使用的希望這一點就當作是我們自己的消費市場生活習慣我們用這個立場來跟交涉的國家來做合理的一些談話對 所以不會美國講要降多少就降多少我們還是會堅持我們米酒的保護是這個意思嗎"},{"start":1342.501,"end":1368.692,"text":"我們的料理米酒現在這個狀況從以前發展到現在這個狀況我們希望維持所以料理米酒的稅制我們不會退就對了不會因為美國認為它是非關稅貿易障礙我們就退這院長講的因為米酒很重要台灣一年大概喝兩千萬米酒那個不是拿來喝啦那個是等於是民生必需品啦是煮菜用的所以希望米酒這一塊可以堅守住然後再來"},{"start":1370.848,"end":1399.392,"text":"基因改造食品因為美國也認為台灣要求基因改造食品跟非基因改造食品的原料比如說玉米大豆是使用不同的關稅編號那因為是不同的關稅編號當然就會造成不同的管制假設美國認為說基因改造跟非基因改造的原料或食品應該都一視同仁該怎麼樣怎麼樣譬如說也不能夠限制誰可以吃不可以吃校園也應該要開放那我們政府的態度是什麼"},{"start":1400.353,"end":1423.849,"text":"剛剛跟委員報告料理米酒是因為雙方在多年前我現在問那個基因食品我說我知道料理米酒因為雙方多年前有過這樣的交涉我們有這樣的立場清楚那至於其他的都還沒經過談判容許我們在談判的當中由我們談判代表照我們自己的國民健康消費習慣引用國際的標準跟科學根據大家來做合理的討論"},{"start":1425.214,"end":1442.781,"text":"我覺得以前民進黨都很堅持說基改食品不能進入校園不能說你們在野的時候講一套執政又講一套如果你們認為這個基改食品有疑慮的話當然也要站在國人的健康把關去做談判"},{"start":1444.261,"end":1471.315,"text":"然後再來一個他們認為另外一個貿易障礙就是農藥最大殘留限量的管制他們認為我們對於農藥的殘留限量管制非常複雜那想請教一下如果美國認為說應該要讓這個農藥最大限流的管制鬆一點然後甚至這個標準放寬一點我們現在政府的態度是什麼一樣這個也是我們談判的內容我們在這裡只能說還是剛剛幾個標準"},{"start":1473.855,"end":1490.042,"text":"國民的健康消費的習慣再配合國際的標準以及科學的根據我們只能用這樣來衡量都是談判的內容再來下一個美國認為我們標示台灣豬這件事情也是一個貿易障礙"},{"start":1491.545,"end":1505.407,"text":"因為為什麼會標示台灣產地就是那時候因為政府要開放萊克多巴胺來豬嘛還有放寬萊牛嘛所以大家就想說在鼓勵大家吃台灣豬所以有那個台灣豬的標章當時農業部也有推這個標章這個是志願式的"},{"start":1508.033,"end":1532.135,"text":"這個是自願式的自願式但有鼓勵嘛那現在美國如果認為說貼這個東西有貿易障礙的話那政府態度是什麼一樣是不是剛剛回答一樣嘛就會本著本著我們的這個消費習慣食品安全然後來談判授權給那個談判代表來談嘛所以不會有答案沒關係我只是提醒啦幾件事情是國人關心的"},{"start":1533.076,"end":1555.781,"text":"比如說來豬的問題、來牛的問題、農藥的問題、基改食品的問題這個都是大家關心的所以在談的時候還是要重視我們食安安全再來 部長有提到這個是我們自己的業者自己用自願的方式來標示的對 但是被他認為說是貿易障礙嘛那難不成到時候農業部要宣導說叫大家不要貼嗎"},{"start":1557.145,"end":1582.001,"text":"沒有 有些在談判的過程中有很多可能是誤解的或是不是了解的像包括剛才講的農藥的MIL的訂定的話那第一步就是會跟美國去說明我們訂這個東西的一個方法來做相關的一個溝通好 那再來還有一個被美國可能列為非關稅貿易障礙就是我們貨物稅因為他們非常重視他們車進來之後價格多少"},{"start":1584.414,"end":1595.781,"text":"那這個價格除了關稅之外還有一個貨物稅因為台灣貨物稅很高啦美國車在美國當地賣可能沒有那個貨物稅這麼高嘛那在台灣忽然就加了25%到30%的稅上去"},{"start":1597.776,"end":1624.221,"text":"那我不知道說其實貨物稅的檢討很多人都提出來過啦因為貨物稅是一個比較老的稅最早推出來的時候那時候是把它當作奢侈性貨品科稅最早的時候認為說你就少買點東西啦那現在當然政府有用其他的目的來賦予貨物稅另外的目標啦可是其實我覺得政府也可以利用這個機會思考一下貨物稅有課的必要嗎"},{"start":1626.579,"end":1649.57,"text":"我們現在國人買個汽車也要被課貨物稅25%到30%買一個機車被課貨物稅買個飲料也要課貨物稅中華民國萬萬稅那以之前財政部不願意改現在美國要我把這個視為非關稅貿易障礙我覺得財政部是不是可以藉這個機會改革一下嘛"},{"start":1650.33,"end":1675.429,"text":"改革一下 你把那個貨物稅降低啊降低 然後讓大家不要買個飲料都要課稅 就像娛樂稅一樣現在政府都鼓勵大家去看電影鼓勵大家去看藝文活動結果我們去看電影 去看藝文活動要被課稅 要繳稅給政府你還花錢 文化部還編錢叫大家去從事藝文活動鼓勵你 給你文化幣然後一方面你去從事呢再給你課稅 從娛樂稅拿回來"},{"start":1677.945,"end":1688.578,"text":"這個稅已經自相矛盾了那貨物稅一樣我們現在工商社會啊鼓勵消費嘛沒有 你買東西不好意思你要買是不是請你給錢你買車25%到30%這個是國內也有課喔國外國內都有課喔所以"},{"start":1694.707,"end":1715.677,"text":"我不知道財政部願不願意 院長 我覺得趁這個機會稅制改革一下把貨物稅的問題也通盤檢討一下 可以嗎貨物稅的檢討是很多年在檢討 因為它歷史上因素我覺得它也不是針對奢侈性的那現在說它貨物稅是要大家承擔道路使用 降低什麼污染"},{"start":1716.898,"end":1744.748,"text":"交通工具這麼普通使用你已經有課那牌照稅啊都應該重新考量你有課別的稅了啊我們太舊換新也有貨物稅的補助是不是在這樣的計算方式你沒有貨物稅的話大家搞不好更想要太舊換新啊因為汽車變便宜了啊歷史上的課稅的理由依據越來越值得被檢討而且我們也有太舊換新甚至包括家電我們可以用這個方式來考量請財政部用這樣的機會去考量院長"},{"start":1746.489,"end":1769.78,"text":"其實你把貨物稅減免,東西變便宜,大家搞不好更刺激消費啦所以不要用刺激消費來講最後一分鐘請教一下大家最近很關心的共諜的問題因為最新的那個吳釗燮的助理共諜他知道很多我們國安會的機密行程然後曾經也在外交部長旁邊做事,其實這個是非常嚴重的問題"},{"start":1771.53,"end":1796.452,"text":"那結果我們的政府被發現對於這個人的終成考核八年沒有做過一次啊所以政府會讓大家覺得說你們一方面好像很都老是質疑別人是共諜可是在政府裡面的共諜你沒有那麼在乎啊八年才做一次終成考核我想請教一下按照規定像這一種這麼重要職務的人應該多久做一次終成考核"},{"start":1796.792,"end":1816.413,"text":"我們會依照現在的規定如果規定不足我們加以馬上啟動我現在就問你嘛現在規定是多久要做一次中程考核出國前要做一次回國也要做然後如果沒有出入境的話多久要做一次如果出國一定要事先有報備的動作回來之後也要有詳細的報告"},{"start":1817.936,"end":1846.993,"text":"這個是我們現在如果沒有這個規定一定要加嚴如果有這個規定沒有做到我們檢討之後要強力的實施院長我的問題是說你多久做應該按照規定多久要做一次中程考核尤其是像這種國安會秘書長的秘書外交部長秘書多久要做一次你再回答我多我認為啦隨著沒有沒有按照現在規定多久要隨著職務等級的不同我們要做不同的設計那多久嘛像他多久要做一次你覺得才合理像他多久做一次你覺得才合理"},{"start":1847.438,"end":1864.406,"text":"我覺得他應該很嚴謹的要做多久一次 這問題能回答嗎就多久 因為他八年都沒做過我覺得不合理嘛 你覺得他多久一次就回答這就好我現在在檢討 如果說院長的散作問題散成這樣能夠年年讓我們知道他所用的人數好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":371,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（15時51分）韓院長，麻煩請卓院長，謝謝。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：葉委員好。"],["葉委員元之：卓院長好。一開始我們來關心一下教育的議題，大家都非常關注校園安全，前一、兩年在新北市有一個土城國中三年級的學生被割喉，那時候整個社會都非常震驚而且憤怒，校園安全是刻不容緩。去年一整年我們一直在跟教育部溝通，希望教育部能夠增加學校的校安人力，一開始的時候，教育部提出來的方案是增加一些學務處副組長的津貼，但我們認為很多副組長是由老師來兼，老師還是有授課壓力，另外一方面面對層出不窮的校安問題，應該要有專職而且有經過訓練的人來處理，在我們不斷的建議之下，也很感謝教育部，後來提出了新增學務人力方案，就是讓一些學校可以選擇有專職的校安人員。但這個進度我不是太滿意，今天剛好總質詢院長在，希望院長除了政治議題之外、下鄉去罵我們之外，也可以關注一下教育議題。","關於校安人員，部長也上來了，我3月份的時候質詢教育部，教育部跟我說，已經請地方的教育局在調查各個學校到底要選擇專職的校安人員還是要兼職的副組長，那是我三月多在教育及文化委員會質詢時，教育部給我的答復，但是我實際上問了地方縣市政府，得到的答案是還沒有開始調查，所以現在很多學校都還沒有選擇。我想要在這邊問院長，請問一下這個動作是不是可以加快？因為調查的速度越慢，代表這個政策實施的日期就越往後延，我們當然是希望校園安全能夠提早一天把關就提早一天，我不知道在進度上部長或院長可不可以在這個場合給一個承諾？什麼時候要完成調查，讓學校的學務人力實際上可以擴充？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，國教署已經函請各地方政府來表達意見，那這個內容請部長來說明。"],["葉委員元之：是。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員關心，從上一個會期學生輔導法，院長事實上就一直非常關心怎麼樣去對中小學的輔導跟訓導協輔人力……"],["葉委員元之：部長，我講的是校安。部長，不要來這邊拖時間，我講的是校安。"],["鄭部長英耀：校安人力這一個部分，我們從國中這一個部分就誠如剛才委員特別提到，事實上國教署今天已經發文、已經……"],["葉委員元之：部長，不要一直重複，今天我們為什麼還要來這邊問，是希望能夠得到一個更明確的答案，所以不要重複，只要給我一個時間……"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，今天肯定……"],["葉委員元之：什麼時候要完成調查？趕快讓這個政策可以實施，我希望給一個承諾，不然每一次問都是說在做了、在做了，但是就是沒有，地方在教學現場就是沒有……"],["鄭部長英耀：就是各地方政府把各校的data蒐集起來……"],["葉委員元之：部長，那你調查的……"],["鄭部長英耀：我們打算實施的……"],["葉委員元之：一個政策的實施不是這樣，不是中央機關就說我有發文了啦！至於地方政府怎麼樣，不關我的事。"],["卓院長榮泰：詳細跟委員報告……"],["葉委員元之：如果行政院態度都是這樣的話，那我們教育……我覺得大家都慢慢搞了啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：一段話就好了，就是今天已經函請地方政府，就未來每個學校是要申請增置學務人力，或者是設置副組長的輔助……"],["葉委員元之：院長，不要一直重複，我講話……"],["卓院長榮泰：讓學校……"],["葉委員元之：我現在講的就是，你們已經有在調查……"],["卓院長榮泰：對。"],["葉委員元之：那什麼時候要實施？因為我們已經追很久了，現在就是沒有。"],["卓院長榮泰：要了解大家的……"],["葉委員元之：那行政院不能夠只是說我發文了啊！接下來又關我什麼事了？我要搞罷免，我沒空啦！不要這樣子。"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告……"],["葉委員元之：教育政策才是行政院應該要關心的。"],["鄭部長英耀：我們在回收以後，如果順利……"],["葉委員元之：什麼時候，給我一個期限，好不好？"],["鄭部長英耀：5月份我們就可以開始實施。"],["葉委員元之：什麼時候？你押一個期限，什麼時候要求他們一定要回報？"],["鄭部長英耀：我們5月就可以，只要地方很快速地把這個data……"],["葉委員元之：不要說「只要地方」，好像教育部都沒有責任一樣。現在好像教育部無所謂耶！地方政府慢也沒我的事，如果慢都是地方政府的事，跟中央政府無關。"],["鄭部長英耀：請委員聽我講話。"],["葉委員元之：我搞政治就好，教育跟我無關！"],["鄭部長英耀：委員很關心，我們心存感謝。"],["葉委員元之：你們這種態度，大家不能接受。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員的態度跟教育部的態度一樣……"],["葉委員元之：部長，什麼時候可以嘛？"],["鄭部長英耀：我剛才已經講了……"],["葉委員元之：什麼時候？"],["鄭部長英耀：如果地方政府順利，我們5月就可以啟動。"],["葉委員元之：地方順利是什麼意思，你會去溝通嗎？你會請地方快一點嗎？還是你覺得沒有關係？"],["鄭部長英耀：因為公文的文書要給地方至少一個禮拜的調查時間……"],["葉委員元之：不是至少一個禮拜，部長，在教育及文化委員會……"],["鄭部長英耀：一個禮拜回來後，我們會……"],["葉委員元之：你們已經講啟動很久了。"],["鄭部長英耀：在今年已經編有預算，本來就要支持這個……"],["葉委員元之：部長，院長今天在這邊，你可能不了解，我們在委員會其實已經質詢過非常多次，每一次的答案都是說調查中。那調查中是要調查一年、兩年，還是5年？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，我剛才已經明確說……5月……"],["葉委員元之：所以才會在這邊請……部長，我沒有問你問題，我在跟院長講話，不好意思。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，就是地方的需求……"],["葉委員元之：院長，我在跟你講話，可不可以請部長不要插話？"],["卓院長榮泰：他是要說明清楚。"],["葉委員元之：今天是因為在委員會找部長沒有用，所以才……"],["卓院長榮泰：應該有用。"],["葉委員元之：告訴您，我們在委員會已經講非常多次，教育部一直說調查中，調查很久了！"],["卓院長榮泰：那是因為意見不同。"],["葉委員元之：所以今天才來告訴院長，教育的議題也希望您費點心，好不好？院長，很多政策，教育、交通、經濟、環保各方面都要費一點心。我知道你很重視政治的東西，去罵我們立委，我都尊重，但是也要花一點時間在教育議題上面，可不可以請院長跟部長講一下，這個調查要多久可以出來？"],["卓院長榮泰：我也希望委員的關心要很務實。"],["葉委員元之：要調查多久？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們現在因為地方的意見分歧，所以用統一發函的方式。"],["葉委員元之：沒有，地方意見沒有分歧喔！我的了解是……"],["卓院長榮泰：到底是要用學務人力還是要副組長……"],["葉委員元之：選嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：地方都有不同。"],["葉委員元之：地方對於增加人力都是歡迎的，現在就是要……"],["卓院長榮泰：看到底要增加哪一種人力。"],["葉委員元之：對，所以請你們快一點去溝通，好不好？可不可以給一個期限？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們絕對會……"],["葉委員元之：大概什麼時候實施？"],["卓院長榮泰：照剛剛部長所說的時間，那也請委員用你的方式能夠比較務實地來了解……"],["葉委員元之：什麼時間、什麼時間？"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛部長已經說了時間。"],["葉委員元之：什麼時候？什麼時候開始實施？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，我剛才已經講了，公文書的來往……"],["葉委員元之：不是，因為我在講話你插話，我就聽不見你講什麼。"],["鄭部長英耀：所以5月嘛！因為我們……"],["葉委員元之：剛剛質詢的時候一來一往，大家在搶話，我當然聽不見。你剛剛說幾月？"],["鄭部長英耀：我覺得……"],["葉委員元之：你剛剛說幾號？你剛剛說……"],["鄭部長英耀：我講話有那麼難懂嗎？"],["葉委員元之：不是，因為我在講話你插話，我聽不見你講什麼，好不好？不是你難懂，你講話很好懂。"],["鄭部長英耀：5月，我的意思是公文……"],["葉委員元之：你不要講那種好像攻擊性的語言，好不好？"],["鄭部長英耀：我們希望1個月能夠……"],["葉委員元之：是因為你插話。"],["鄭部長英耀：儘快能夠駁回……"],["葉委員元之：你看，現在我講話你又講話，那當然我聽不見你講話！教育部長可以不要插話嗎？你現在就回答我什麼時間？大概什麼時候？"],["鄭部長英耀：5月。"],["葉委員元之：好，5月。5月就會實施嘛！第二個，我來關心一下，院長知不知道現在在教育，不管是國中、高中都有出現行政大逃亡的現象？院長知道嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：行政什麼？"],["葉委員元之：大逃亡。"],["卓院長榮泰：行政大逃亡，你是說人力嗎？"],["葉委員元之：人力，因為大家都不想要去兼行政職。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["葉委員元之：院長知道現在在國中、高中、國小只有一個組可以由專職的公務人員來做，其他都要由老師兼任，您知道嗎？你知道哪一個組嗎？不知道嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長說明一下。"],["葉委員元之：你不知道嘛！只有總務組可以有……"],["鄭部長英耀：總務。"],["葉委員元之：可以有公務人員來做，其他全部都要由老師兼任。那我現在告訴院長一個現象，現在很多老師不願意做行政職，老師都不願意兼任行政職，所以學校怎麼選擇哪些老師來做行政職呢？都找那些最菜的、剛進來的老師去兼，比如兼學務處的生教組長，或者是其他處的什麼組長。這些老師剛進學校，實際上他可能數學可以教得很好、國語可以教得很好，但是一進來，不好意思，先不要教書、先來做生教組長。其實這對學生來說也是一個損失，而老師也不太願意兼。老師不願意兼，怎麼辦呢？那就開代理教師的缺，讓代理教師來兼這個行政職。我現在有兩個建議，請院長聽一下：一個建議是，你是不是思考一下，提高老師願意行政職的誘因？因為現在擔任導師的津貼大概是一個月3,000塊，加上有寒暑假，對吧？這個部長應該很清楚。那行政職的津貼是多少錢？一個月差不多四、五千塊。所以有些要兼行政職的老師會覺得好像做導師和做行政職的津貼其實差不了多少，所以第一個建議是能不能提高老師兼行政職的津貼？可不可以？讓多一些老師願意來擔任行政職。不曉得院長可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長衡量一下我們整個人力的規劃，以及未來財務的負擔怎麼樣，我覺得這個問題是要解決的，否則對學校的健全和各項發展是不足的，我們往健全的方向去解決問題……"],["葉委員元之：所以你的意思是提高行政職的津貼這件事情，你覺得可以研議，然後……"],["卓院長榮泰：要去解決這個問題。"],["葉委員元之：解決這個問題？"],["卓院長榮泰：至於方式有哪些，這個部分委員所建議的，我們會請部長瞭解一下人力的規劃、財務的規劃……"],["葉委員元之：好，等一下部長一起回答。第二個建議是，因為剛剛講，只有總務組長可以由公務人員來擔任，那麼能不能開放其他組，比如說我剛剛講的學務處下面其他組的組長也可以由公務人員專職來做？當然，這也可能會有員額的問題，譬如說是不是要增加員額。這個部分我不知道可不可以請人事行政總處來研議一下？因為這個現象在學校是嚴重的、我們要解決的！如果沒有人願意做這件事情的話，能不能讓比如說教育行政的公務人員來做？這樣就可以解決這方面的人才荒嘛！","其次是我覺得還是要保障老師，就是學校可以排志願，第一志願開缺出來，如果老師願意兼，很好，就解決問題了，可能就不用增加員額。如果沒有老師願意兼，就一直空在那邊啊！你找代理老師也可以，也可以找專職的公務人員，比如說由教務行政的來做。也就是讓這件事情變得比較有彈性，這樣就可以解決學校的人力問題。","以上是我的建議啦！請教一下院長，可不可以？"],["卓院長榮泰：看部長的意見怎麼樣，因為有一些不只是中央預算的問題，還牽涉到地方性的……"],["葉委員元之：現在是先有問題，我們來想解決的方法是什麼，然後再來討論預算嘛！因為這個是教育嘛……"],["卓院長榮泰：看部長瞭解的狀況怎麼樣，再請人事長……"],["葉委員元之：教育大家都很重視嘛！如果院長認同，部長也認同這個問題要解決，我們應該是思考先把方案提出來，再去想這個財務怎麼去支援；我們先解決前面的問題。"],["卓院長榮泰：我說請部長先瞭解……瞭解部長他的想法，再請人事長來綜合說明。"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，我想委員所關心的事實上也是我們教育部跟行政院一直都在關心的，怎麼樣降低老師的負擔，包括學校事務能夠有專人處理，這也是為什麼我們要在國中這一個區塊裡面優先增加校務、校事人力。另外一個是怎麼樣去增加各個處室的行政專職人員，我想它也涉及國民教育事實上歸屬地方自治的管轄，我們這邊會跟地方來討論和研議，看怎麼樣能夠對中小學有一個更好的行政支持制度。"],["葉委員元之：部長，你有講跟沒講一樣。","沒關係啦！我把問題跟院長講了啦！院長，現在教學現場就是有這個狀況，看院長願不願意找部長或地方政府，大家召集一下，看看怎麼提出一個好的對策來解決這個問題，減輕老師的負擔，讓家長也放心，這其實是一個大家都在談的話題，只是你們都不重視，我今天拿來這邊講。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們沒有不重視，這還是要問地方政府的意見。"],["葉委員元之：還有我剛剛講的校安人力，目前教育部提出來的方案是1個嘛！對不對？如果60班……"],["鄭部長英耀：在既有的經費裡面，我們逐步來努力。"],["葉委員元之：目前的方案是如果國中增加校安人員是增加1個，對不對？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["葉委員元之：可是高中大概是幾個班1個校安人員，部長您知道嗎？你新增的是國中嘛，我現在問你，你知道高中大概幾個班1個校安人員？您知道嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：請委員明示。"],["葉委員元之：你是部長耶！","大概6個班就1個校安人員，但是我們現在國中新增的校安人員，就是教育部提出來5月份要實施的這個方案是60班以上1個校安人員，現在的高中生需要校安人員，難道國中不比高中需要嗎？我覺得當然部長會提到是不是財務問題什麼之類的，但是校安人員越多，對校園安全越有保障，所以是不是可以朝向增加的這個角度，至少比照高中，高中有這個需要，國中應該也有這個需要，高中是6個班1個，國中60班1個，這個差距太大。所以我是不是能夠在這邊也跟部長反映、跟院長反映，就是國中的校園人員人數能不能比照高中的比例，6個班1個？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，這真的要跟地方政府好好談，未來國中這部分人事費的負擔是在地方政府。"],["葉委員元之：沒有，你教育部也可以補助啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：財劃法又要拿那麼多錢……"],["葉委員元之：等一下，院長現在又要跟我扯財劃法什麼的，我現在就跟你講教育的議題，你覺得這個有沒有必要做？如果有必要做，再來談下面嘛！對不對？我現在談的是有沒有必要做，就是你認為國中的校安人員到底有沒有這個需要？如果你也認同、部長也認同，當然大家就可以思考這個財務怎麼去分配，如果你一開始就說你不知道、你沒錢，要問就問地方政府，關你中央什麼事，這個態度就不OK。"],["卓院長榮泰：有必要做的事情很多，這件事情真的要跟地方政府去談，大家如何對以後的人事負擔……"],["葉委員元之：我是覺得有必要做，至於怎麼跟地方政府談，當然就拜託教育部努力，因為校園安全真的是大家很關注的一個現象，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：教育部再跟地方政府好好的溝通，了解一下地方的意見。"],["葉委員元之：不要都推給地方政府，行政院長也要有主見。","再來，我想請教一下別的議題，我們現在因為美國川普的關稅政策，我有看到經濟部長非常認同「吃苦當吃補」這句話，然後郭智輝部長也提到「不經一番寒徹骨，焉得梅花撲鼻香」，其實這句話已經在預測臺灣要進入到一段吃苦的時代了，也要經歷寒徹骨的時代了。先問一下郭部長，或者院長也可以幫忙回答，請問一下，我們接下來要面臨怎樣的苦，跟怎麼樣的寒徹骨？"],["郭部長智輝：這個是形容詞吧！我想小學大概五年級左右就讀過這一篇啊！"],["葉委員元之：你這個是比喻嘛，我現在問你實際上套用在川普的關稅政策……"],["郭部長智輝：這只是在鼓勵……"],["葉委員元之：我們接下來要面臨到什麼樣的寒徹骨，我是說臺灣。"],["郭部長智輝：我是在講那個情境，臺灣不會到你所說的嘛！你認為寒徹骨……"],["葉委員元之：臺灣不會到我所說的，為什麼你要講不經一番寒徹骨？話都給你講就好了。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員……"],["葉委員元之：請問一下吃苦當吃補，我們吃苦當吃補……"],["郭部長智輝：不是，那麼請你告訴我，你的寒徹骨是什麼情境，我來回答你的問題。"],["葉委員元之：部長，這句話是你講的，不要反質詢，好不好？這句話是你講的。","好，賴總統講「請大家吃苦當吃補」，請問一下，我們接下來要吃什麼苦？因為部長很認同賴總統講的「吃苦當吃補」嘛！"],["郭部長智輝：這是鼓勵的話……"],["葉委員元之：所以啊！鼓勵……"],["郭部長智輝：有的人，像我以前小的時候，早上要睡到8點才起床，現在我6點起床，我也是「吃苦當作吃補」啊！"],["葉委員元之：你說你早上起床是吃苦喔？好苦喔！"],["郭部長智輝：對啊！以前我都是要睡到8點，現在要上班，我只睡到6點而已。"],["葉委員元之：為什麼你現在要6點起床？"],["郭部長智輝：因為我要趕7點上班啊！"],["葉委員元之：所以你覺得很苦，坐這個位置很苦啦！"],["郭部長智輝：你不會苦，那很好啊！"],["葉委員元之：不是啦！今天你部長怎麼樣，你6點起床、5點起床，不關我們的事，你吃苦……"],["郭部長智輝：我們是在講那個情境……"],["葉委員元之：部長等一下，等一下，請不要一直打岔，好不好？你吃苦或怎麼樣，你是政務官，因為你領納稅人的錢，你做事你認為很苦，你可以自己決定要做或不要做……"],["郭部長智輝：我的意思是大家一起來……"],["葉委員元之：你可以自己決定……"],["郭部長智輝：遇到困難……"],["葉委員元之：等一下，部長，我還沒有問問題。"],["郭部長智輝：大家一起來解決……"],["葉委員元之：主席，可不可以……我都沒有問問題，一直打岔。"],["主席：時間暫停，葉委員的時間暫停。","特別跟委員、跟院長、部長報告一下，我們的施政質詢採即問即答的方式進行，委員與官員共同使用時間，也特別拜託官員不用搶答，委員也適當的保留官員回復的時間，我們互相尊重，再次呼籲。時間繼續。"],["葉委員元之：好。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝院長。"],["葉委員元之：所以部長你覺得很苦，這是你的事，你可以選擇要做不要做，大家都尊重你。你覺得很苦，你可以跟院長講你有點苦，不想幹了！或者是你跟院長講你很苦，但是你為了臺灣打拼，你願意繼續做，大家都尊重你。但現在賴總統講的「吃苦當吃補」，他是對國人講的，你們是大家委託來經營這個國家、來執政，所以有必要告訴國人，到底臺灣人要吃什麼苦，讓大家有心理準備，我現在問的是這件事情，所以請問部長，你認同賴清德總統講的「吃苦當吃補」，那麼我們國人接下來要吃什麼苦？可不可以先跟大家講一下？"],["郭部長智輝：好，報告委員，「吃苦當作吃補」這句話是鼓勵的話，至於我們會吃什麼苦，每個人的程度不一樣，對不對？就像吃苦藥的時候，有的人說很苦，有的人說很甘，這是每個人感覺不一樣的東西，很難用一個具體的事情去形容。我要跟你報告的是，碰到關稅問題，每一個產業不會一樣，但如果有碰到實際的關稅操作，他感覺到可能他的訂單減少了，或是他的客戶都在美國等等，每一個公司的情境不會一樣，經濟部會根據……"],["葉委員元之：好，謝謝部長，我已經給你很多時間講了，你的意思是說，每個人吃的苦不一樣，有的人會很苦，有的人不苦，那我想問幾件大家都非常關心的事情，因為賴總統說要用零關稅當作基礎跟美國談判，第二個就是要取消一些非關稅貿易障礙，我特別去看了一下美國關心的是什麼非關稅貿易障礙，幾件事情跟院長請教：第一個，米酒，在美國的報告裡提到他認為臺灣料理米酒的菸酒稅稅率太低，會形成不公平的貿易障礙，因為他們的酒進來比較貴，但是課我們的米酒比較低。我想院長之前也當過民意代表，從政很長一段時間，應該記得之前曾經發生過一次米酒之亂……"],["卓院長榮泰：是的。"],["葉委員元之：它的背景是因為在2003年之前，我們的米酒不用稅，很便宜，可是因為要加入WTO，所以被要求稅要很高，那時候甚至有人囤積，一瓶酒還賣到180塊，造成整個米酒市場大亂，後來也因為修法，把米酒的稅制下修，修成每公升大概9塊，所以它的價錢又再平穩。現在大家擔心的是，我們在跟美國談判的時候，如果美國按照他的報告，認為米酒的稅制太低，造成不公平，那麼米酒的稅會不會被增加，然後造成像之前一樣的米酒大亂？"],["卓院長榮泰：就是因為有之前的經驗，那時候蒸餾酒類的稅制比較高，我們經過那次的調整之後，把米酒變成料理米酒，在裡面加添鹽分、鹽的成分，所以它已經不是拿來直接飲用的酒，而是作為料理使用，把這一點當作是我們自己的消費市場、生活習慣，用這個立場來跟交涉的國家做合理的談話。"],["葉委員元之：對，所以不會美國講要降多少就降多少，我們還是會堅持我們的米酒保護，是這個意思嗎？是這個意思嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們的料理米酒現在的狀況……"],["葉委員元之：就是料理米酒……"],["卓院長榮泰：從以前發展到現在這個狀況，我們希望維持。"],["葉委員元之：所以料理米酒的稅制我們不會退就對了，不會因為美國認為它是非關稅貿易障礙，我們就退，這是院長講的，因為米酒很重要，臺灣一年大概喝掉2,000萬瓶米酒，當然這不是拿來喝的，而是煮菜用的民生必需品，所以希望米酒這一塊可以堅守住。","再來是基因改造食品，美國也認為臺灣要求基因改造食品跟非基因改造食品的原料，比如玉米、大豆，是使用不同的關稅編號，因為是不同的關稅編號，當然就會造成不同的管制，假設美國認為基因改造跟非基因改造的原料或食品應該一視同仁，該怎麼樣就怎麼樣，譬如不能夠限制誰可以吃、誰不可以吃，校園也應該要開放，我們政府的態度是什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛跟委員報告，料理米酒是因為雙方在多年前……"],["葉委員元之：沒有，我現在問的是基因食品。"],["卓院長榮泰：我知道。因為料理米酒雙方在多年前有過這樣的交涉，我們有清楚的立場，至於其他的部分都還沒經過談判，容許我們在談判當中，由我們談判代表依照我們自己的國民健康、消費習慣，也引用國際的標準跟科學根據，大家來合理的討論。"],["葉委員元之：我覺得因為以前民進黨都很堅持基改食品不能進入校園，那不能說你們在野的時候講一套，執政的時候又講一套，如果你們認為基改食品有疑慮的話，那當然也要站在國人的健康把關去做談判。"],["卓院長榮泰：是，我知道，我剛剛有說到了。"],["葉委員元之：然後再來一個，他們認為另外一個貿易障礙就是農藥最大殘留限量的管制，他們認為我們對於農藥的殘留限量管制非常複雜，想請教一下，如果美國認為應該要讓農藥最大殘留的管制鬆一點，甚至標準放寬一點，我們現在政府的態度是什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：一樣，這個也是我們談判的內容，我們在這裡只能說還是剛剛幾個標準，國民的健康、消費的習慣，再配合國際的標準以及科學的根據，我們只能用這樣來衡量，都是談判的內容。"],["葉委員元之：再來，下一個，美國認為我們標示臺灣豬這件事情也是一個貿易障礙，為什麼會標示臺灣產地？就是那時候因為政府要開放含萊克多巴胺的萊豬，還有放寬萊牛，大家就想說鼓勵大家吃臺灣豬，所以有臺灣豬的標章，當時農業部也有推這個標章，但現在……"],["陳部長駿季：這個是自願式的。"],["葉委員元之：什麼？"],["陳部長駿季：這個是自願式的。"],["葉委員元之：自願式，但是有鼓勵嘛！現在美國如果認為貼這個東西有貿易障礙的話，那政府態度是什麼？一樣是不是？跟剛剛的回答一樣嗎？就是會本著我們……"],["卓院長榮泰：國民的健康、消費的習慣、國際的標準和科學的證據。"],["葉委員元之：消費習慣、食品安全，然後來談判，授權給談判代表來談嘛！所以不會有答案，沒關係，我只是提醒啦！這幾件事情是國人關心的，比如說萊豬的問題、萊牛的問題、農藥的問題、基改食品的問題，這個都是大家關心的，所以在談的時候，還是要重視我們食安安全。再來……"],["卓院長榮泰：部長有提到這個是我們自己的業者，自己用自願的方式來標示的。"],["葉委員元之：對，但是被他認為是貿易障礙嘛！難不成到時候農業部要宣導叫大家不要貼嗎？對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，有些在談判的過程中，有很多可能是誤解的或者是不了解的，像包括剛才講的農藥MRL的訂定，第一步就是會跟美國去說明我們訂這個東西的方法，來做相關的溝通。"],["葉委員元之：好。再來，還有一個可能被美國列為非關稅貿易障礙，就是我們的貨物稅，因為他們非常重視他們的車進來之後價格多少，那這個價格除了關稅之外，還有一個貨物稅，因為臺灣貨物稅很高啦！美國車在美國當地賣，可能沒有這麼高的貨物稅，但在臺灣忽然就加了25%到30%的稅上去。其實貨物稅的檢討很多人都提出來過，因為貨物稅是一個比較老的稅，最早推出來的時候，是把它當作奢侈性貨品課稅，最早的時候是認為你就少買點東西。現在當然政府有用其他的目的來賦予貨物稅另外的目標，可是其實我覺得政府也可以利用這個機會思考一下有課貨物稅的必要嗎？我們現在國人買個汽車也要被課貨物稅，25%到30%；買個機車被課貨物稅；買個飲料也要課貨物稅……"],["莊部長翠雲：貨物稅……"],["葉委員元之：中華民國萬萬稅，之前財政部不願意改，現在美國把這個視為非關稅貿易障礙，我覺得財政部是不是可以藉這個機會改革一下嘛！改革一下，你把貨物稅降低啊！不要連買個飲料都要課稅，就像娛樂稅一樣，現在政府都鼓勵大家去看電影、鼓勵大家去看藝文活動，結果我們去看電影、去看藝文活動要被課稅，要繳稅給政府。你還花錢、文化部還編錢叫大家去從事藝文活動，鼓勵你，給你文化幣，然後一方面你去從事這些活動，再跟你課稅，從娛樂稅拿回來，這個稅已經自相矛盾了。貨物稅也一樣，我們現在工商社會啊！鼓勵消費嘛！沒有，你買東西，不好意思，你要買，是不是？請你給錢。你買車，25%到30%，這個是國內也有課喔！國外、國內都有課喔！所以我不知道財政部願不願意，院長，我覺得趁這個機會稅制改革一下，把貨物稅的問題也通盤檢討一下，可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：貨物稅的檢討是很多年在檢討，因為它歷史上的因素，我覺得它也不是針對奢侈性的，那現在說貨物稅是要大家承擔道路使用、降低什麼污染，我覺得在交通工具這麼……"],["葉委員元之：交通使用你已經有課牌照稅啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：都應該重新考量……"],["葉委員元之：你有課別的稅了啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：而且現在我們汰舊換新也有貨物稅的補助，是不是在這樣的計算方式之下……"],["葉委員元之：你沒有貨物稅的話，大家搞不好更想要汰舊換新，因為汽車會變便宜了。"],["卓院長榮泰：在這個情況底下，歷史上的課稅理由依據越來越值得被檢討，而且我們也有汰舊換新，甚至包括家電，我們可以從這個方式來考量，請財政部利用這樣的機會去考量貨物稅……"],["葉委員元之：院長，其實你把貨物稅減免，東西變便宜，搞不好更刺激消費。"],["卓院長榮泰：也有這麼一說。"],["葉委員元之：對啦！所以不要用刺激消費來講。","最後1分鐘，請教一下，大家最近很關心共諜的問題，因為最新的、吳釗燮的助理──共諜，他知道很多我們國安會的機密行程，曾經也在外交部長旁邊做事，其實這個是非常嚴重的問題，結果我們政府被發現，對於這個人的忠誠考核，8年沒有做過一次，所以政府會讓大家覺得，你們一方面好像老是質疑別人是共諜，可是在政府裡面的共諜，你沒有那麼在乎，8年才做一次忠誠考核，我想請教一下，按照規定，像這一種這麼重要職務的人應該多久做一次忠誠考核？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會依照現在的規定，如果規定不足，我們加嚴規定……"],["葉委員元之：現在規定是多少？"],["卓院長榮泰：馬上啟動。"],["葉委員元之：我現在就問你，現在規定是多久要做一次忠誠考核？出國前要做一次，回國也要做，然後如果沒有出入境的話，多久要做一次？"],["卓院長榮泰：如果出國一定要事先有報備的動作，回來之後也要有詳細的報告，我們現在如果沒有這個規定，一定要加嚴；如果有這個規定，沒有做到，我們檢討之後要強力的實施。"],["葉委員元之：院長，我的問題是，應該要按照規定多久做一次忠誠考核？尤其是像這種國安會秘書長的秘書、外交部長的秘書，多久要做一次？你只要回答我……"],["卓院長榮泰：我認為隨著職務……"],["葉委員元之：沒有，按照現在的規定，多久要……"],["卓院長榮泰：隨著職務等級的不同，我們要做不同的設計。"],["葉委員元之：那多久？像他，多久要做一次，你覺得才合理？像他多久做一次，你覺得才合理？"],["卓院長榮泰：我覺得他應該很嚴謹地要做。"],["葉委員元之：多久一次，這個問題很難回答嗎？多久？因為他8年都沒做過，我覺得不合理，你覺得他多久一次？回答這個就好。"],["卓院長榮泰：我現在在檢討，如果說高階的……"],["葉委員元之：院長，你閃躲問題閃成這樣。"],["卓院長榮泰：高階的人員能夠年年讓我們知道他所用的人是安全無虞的，這個對國家……"],["葉委員元之：你說一年一次是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：我現在檢討這個方式。"],["葉委員元之：謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝葉元之委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長、相關部會首長的備詢，謝謝。","報告院會，現在在議場二樓貴賓席、旁聽席的又是來自美國青年領袖訪問團，我們掌聲歡迎、Welcome！","報告院會，本會期排定政黨質詢的委員均已質詢完畢，我們非常感謝卓院長、鄭副院長及各位閣員。連續六次耽擱、延宕，身為立法院長，我應該在這裡致歉，向各位閣員致歉，我們希望未來所有排定的質詢都能夠順利的進行。","我們現作以下決定：下次會議進行立法委員個人質詢內政組之質詢。","報告院會，繼續我們處理復議案2案，以先後順序處理，請議事人員宣讀第1案。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":159,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-7","speakers":["韓國瑜","蘇清泉","范雲","涂權吉","王美惠","洪孟楷","劉建國","鄭正鈐","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","李柏毅","楊瓊瓔","葉元之"],"page_start":79,"meetingDate":["2025-04-15"],"gazette_id":"1143401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143401_00003","1143401_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第7次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1143401_00004"}}}