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所以說大概從2016年到2024年的這段機制這段時間的機制大概跟過去大概是一樣那我自己是在2016年到2017年年中是在國安會認識那在這一年半中因為我被核可的密等是比較非這麼機敏性的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 77.173, \"end\": 77.333, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 77.333, \"end\": 78.134, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 78.134, \"end\": 78.434, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 78.434, \"end\": 78.774, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 78.774, \"end\": 78.914, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 78.914, \"end\": 79.435, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 79.435, \"end\": 79.575, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 79.575, \"end\": 79.675, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 79.675, \"end\": 80.115, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 80.115, \"end\": 80.215, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": 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\"那我大概是被核可大概安全背景審查大概做一次大概做一次一年半那但是就我所的我所知道的資訊安全核可裡面的一個揭秘層級是由國安會諮詢委員就是每一個國安會諮詢委員他自己的辦公室是由諮詢委員去來核可說這個是密等的接觸等級他可能是機密或者是普通或者是極機密等等\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 98.965, \"end\": 99.105, \"score\": 0.745}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 99.105, \"end\": 99.245, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 99.245, \"end\": 99.365, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 99.365, \"end\": 99.585, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 99.585, \"end\": 99.765, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 99.765, \"end\": 99.905, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"核\", \"start\": 99.905, \"end\": 100.065, \"score\": 0.735}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 100.065, \"end\": 100.226, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 100.226, \"end\": 100.366, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 100.366, \"end\": 100.866, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 100.866, \"end\": 101.046, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 101.046, \"end\": 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--> 00:00:35,524\n部長最近台灣發生很多跟共諜相關的案件那其實從去年開始我們正式上任之後那我也不斷的針對安全核可的問題來去提醒我想請教一下吳釗燮國安會秘書長他擔任第一任國安會秘書長的時間點是在什麼時候那部長您擔任國安會秘書長的時間點是在什麼時候\n\n3\n00:00:37,448 --> 00:01:00,140\n我擔任國安會秘書長應該是在2020的520然後到2024的520所以在這段期間我們國家的安全核可的機制跟吳釗燮秘書長擔任秘書長第一任秘書長的時候的安全核可機制有沒有什麼變化還是大概是一致的\n\n4\n00:01:01,384 --> 00:01:14,551\n安全核可的機制在你擔任的時候跟吳釗燮擔任的時候那個時間點有沒有什麼變化那個時間點的變化有沒有把那個安全核可的機制有沒有做一些更新或者是加嚴類似這樣子\n\n5\n00:01:17,173 --> 00:01:38,525\n應該沒有在國安會的期間應該沒有什麼沒有嘛所以說大概從2016年到2024年的這段機制這段時間的機制大概跟過去大概是一樣那我自己是在2016年到2017年年中是在國安會認識那在這一年半中因為我被核可的密等是比較非這麼機敏性的\n\n6\n00:01:38,965 --> 00:02:02,674\n那我大概是被核可大概安全背景審查大概做一次大概做一次一年半那但是就我所的我所知道的資訊安全核可裡面的一個揭秘層級是由國安會諮詢委員就是每一個國安會諮詢委員他自己的辦公室是由諮詢委員去來核可說這個是密等的接觸等級他可能是機密或者是普通或者是極機密等等\n\n7\n00:02:03,334 --> 00:02:18,468\n那國安會祕書長他應該也有這樣子的機制在他的辦公室裡面那我這樣問的原因是因為我不針對人我們也不針對個案我們針對機制我也不想說誰要因為我覺得再講下去也沒有什麼意義但是機制我們必須要做一個查核\n\n8\n00:02:19,468 --> 00:02:35,738\n媒體的眾多媒體的報導我相信他們也都經過證實就是這位核心的前助理他在八年只有一次的查核可是在八年一次的查核當中他已經經歷過國安會跟外交部甚至是其他的重要的機關跟委員稍微說明一下他並沒有\n\n9\n00:02:36,959 --> 00:02:48,555\n我並不知道他在之前有沒有在國安會但是我在國安會的時間他並不在國安會沒有我沒有在講這件事情我沒有在說你要負這個責任所以我現在講機制喔部長你先不用那麼緊張我沒有要今天不討論人我們討論機制\n\n10\n00:02:52,461 --> 00:03:21,266\n我不知道你2020年2024年這之間他在不在這不是重點重點是說他這一位這一位核心前助理他經歷過國安會他經歷過外交部可是在這八年他只有經過一次的查核像這樣子的他有可能未來我不知道假設這是沒有在這個調查局沒有把他調查到的話那他可能經歷的部會會很多種那理論上來講經過一定的時間點他揭秘當然層級一定會慢慢的上升嘛\n\n11\n00:03:22,352 --> 00:03:46,420\n他這麼長年的在國安會也好或者是在外交部也好怎麼會只有一次安全查核我想請教一下部長在您旁邊的這些機要跟信任的幕僚人員是不是也會有固定的時間查核還是也是之前的機制八年來有可能只查核一次在國安部的部分我們查核的部分期限是三年查核的有效期限是三年所以每三年要查核一次\n\n12\n00:03:46,943 --> 00:04:02,599\n那上次我們在質詢部長的時候部長有提到說未來重複的核可更加的把頻率增高來因應共體的威脅是有可能的部長有沒有考慮未來因應這麼多的國家安全案件來去增加它安全核可的頻率\n\n13\n00:04:04,481 --> 00:04:27,263\n我們是這樣子,我們在2月13號已經定班了一個國軍生命人員安全調查的作業規定它這個主要的就是說涉及到絕對機密跟密集有不同的查核的深度一般來講就是說像你可能絕對你要碰到絕對機密我們的這個\n\n14\n00:04:28,311 --> 00:04:36,205\n整個查核對他期間的話是要長達七年都要進行一個查核\n\n15\n00:04:38,541 --> 00:05:02,100\n對他的查核是有在他的七年之內的期間之內來進行一個比較深度的查核最頻率的意思是頻率的話原則上還是三年但如果他有發生的這個揭密等級要提升那麼或者植物異動或者要近身\n\n16\n00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:26,306\n或者要將派任這個專案派護專案任務的話呢我們會再進行謝謝部長我再強調一次當初我們在質詢的時候部長就有提到說重點是他接觸的機密而不是他的職位的高低OK我們理解但是包含這位核心助理也好或者是我們最近蠻多起的共諜案件他們的\n\n17\n00:05:27,446 --> 00:05:54,083\n接觸的機密就是說在他們被核可比方說我當初可能是被核可為接觸的密等只有普通或者是機密但是他卻是在這個國安會秘書長室所以他你可能把他核可為他接觸的機密是只有機密但是其實他甚至可以接觸到最高機密這就是我所擔心的部分這個機制有沒有辦法來去做一個看有沒有什麼樣更新的方式據我所知因為我現在已經不在國安會了我\n\n18\n00:05:54,903 --> 00:06:19,329\n我想我只能夠說就我在國安會的期間之內確實比如說我在擔任國安會秘書長的時候就誰會接觸什麼樣的密等那都要經過我們的一個他會呈上來然後我們會來勾選他接觸的一個機密的範圍這樣是對所以說秘書長我說這個部長或者是說秘書長他們是來自己再去做核可的\n\n19\n00:06:20,319 --> 00:06:41,488\n他自己來去勾選的對,在國安會的時期但是在國安部的話那就是由我們的軍事安全總隊來負責對,我的意思是說我希望有一個機制而不是一個人來決定說這一個人對,所以我們在國安部的部分我剛如同委員所講的就是說我們現在要防美軍的做法,就是說\n\n20\n00:06:42,188 --> 00:07:05,038\n我因為一方面去年做了一個全面的查核之外,我們今年就揭秘的這個等級的部分做不同深度的查核那剛剛也提到了,原則上是三年,但如果它揭秘的這個等級提升,或者有植物異動等等的這些狀況的時候我們還要再進行查核,大概在國安部的部分是這樣\n\n21\n00:07:06,038 --> 00:07:32,624\n好非常感謝我希望這些機制能夠被導入到我們最高的國家安全的相關機關而不是以人來直接去進行勾選可能為了審視為了要偏移形式他直接把他的機密等級直接勾選普通或者是機密而已但是其實上他可能會接觸到的東西是更加的機密機敏性或者是他與首長的關係是更加的機密委員的意見我想\n\n22\n00:07:34,144 --> 00:07:53,795\n我們國防部的已經就我們國防部所在進行的這個部分我想我們再跟其他的國安攤謝謝謝謝部長好的你們如果有一個比較好的方案的話請記得跟其他的國家的單位來去分享再來針對造船的部分那最近美方針對造船\n\n23\n00:07:54,395 --> 00:08:22,636\n其實是有造船總局等等這些相關的方案都出現就是針對對中共的他們造船能力之大他們已經開始非常警惕要確保美國的海軍有足夠的船艦的能量甚至有定額是300多艘那現在來看的話造船的這個根據CSIS的這個圖就是中國的造船能力大概是全國全球的53%那接下來就是韓國跟日本\n\n24\n00:08:23,757 --> 00:08:50,195\n我們台灣作為一個盟友我們也是海洋國家不知道有沒有什麼樣的可能性可以跟美方合作在造船或者是修復船隻的這些能力上面不知道部長有什麼看法呃我想或者由海軍來分享也可以這個部分我想我並不覺得我們適宜在公開的場合來討論這樣的一件事情呃\n\n25\n00:08:53,057 --> 00:09:20,315\n我們會後再跟委員能不能做報告部長這個是策略型的甚至是宣示型的我不是說要你要到幾艘是說你懂我意思嗎因為這個包含日本已經有許多的這一個日本的工業大學東京東工大還有東京大學的教授都不斷的強調說日本要主動積極的作為提案方加強跟美方在造船業上面的合作\n\n26\n00:09:21,485 --> 00:09:44,648\n那我們台灣有沒有這個意向或者是這種能力我只能回答說我們有這個意向那很好非常好我希望我們有這個意向因為這是一個包含供應鏈也好我們的能力要把它總和起來這樣才可以跟美日韓菲律賓我們第一島鏈的這些國家才能夠有一個更完整的合作方向謝謝謝謝趙委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n135\t541\t你好 我們請部長\n11873\t35524\t部長最近台灣發生很多跟共諜相關的案件那其實從去年開始我們正式上任之後那我也不斷的針對安全核可的問題來去提醒我想請教一下吳釗燮國安會秘書長他擔任第一任國安會秘書長的時間點是在什麼時候那部長您擔任國安會秘書長的時間點是在什麼時候\n37448\t60140\t我擔任國安會秘書長應該是在2020的520然後到2024的520所以在這段期間我們國家的安全核可的機制跟吳釗燮秘書長擔任秘書長第一任秘書長的時候的安全核可機制有沒有什麼變化還是大概是一致的\n61384\t74551\t安全核可的機制在你擔任的時候跟吳釗燮擔任的時候那個時間點有沒有什麼變化那個時間點的變化有沒有把那個安全核可的機制有沒有做一些更新或者是加嚴類似這樣子\n77173\t98525\t應該沒有在國安會的期間應該沒有什麼沒有嘛 所以說大概從2016年到2024年的這段機制這段時間的機制大概跟過去大概是一樣那我自己是在2016年到2017年年中是在國安會認識那在這一年半中因為我被核可的密等是比較非這麼機敏性的\n98965\t122674\t那我大概是被核可大概安全背景審查大概做一次大概做一次一年半那但是就我所的我所知道的資訊安全核可裡面的一個揭秘層級是由國安會諮詢委員就是每一個國安會諮詢委員他自己的辦公室是由諮詢委員去來核可說這個是密等的接觸等級他可能是機密或者是普通或者是極機密等等\n123334\t138468\t那國安會祕書長他應該也有這樣子的機制在他的辦公室裡面那我這樣問的原因是因為我不針對人我們也不針對個案我們針對機制我也不想說誰要因為我覺得再講下去也沒有什麼意義但是機制我們必須要做一個查核\n139468\t155738\t媒體的眾多媒體的報導我相信他們也都經過證實就是這位核心的前助理他在八年只有一次的查核可是在八年一次的查核當中他已經經歷過國安會跟外交部甚至是其他的重要的機關跟委員稍微說明一下他並沒有\n156959\t168555\t我並不知道他在之前有沒有在國安會但是我在國安會的時間他並不在國安會沒有我沒有在講這件事情我沒有在說你要負這個責任所以我現在講機制喔部長你先不用那麼緊張我沒有要今天不討論人我們討論機制\n172461\t201266\t我不知道你2020年2024年這之間他在不在這不是重點重點是說他這一位這一位核心前助理他經歷過國安會他經歷過外交部可是在這八年他只有經過一次的查核像這樣子的他有可能未來我不知道假設這是沒有在這個調查局沒有把他調查到的話那他可能經歷的部會會很多種那理論上來講經過一定的時間點他揭秘當然層級一定會慢慢的上升嘛\n202352\t226420\t他這麼長年的在國安會也好或者是在外交部也好怎麼會只有一次安全查核我想請教一下部長在您旁邊的這些機要跟信任的幕僚人員是不是也會有固定的時間查核還是也是之前的機制八年來有可能只查核一次在國安部的部分我們查核的部分期限是三年查核的有效期限是三年所以每三年要查核一次\n226943\t242599\t那上次我們在質詢部長的時候部長有提到說未來重複的核可更加的把頻率增高來因應共體的威脅是有可能的部長有沒有考慮未來因應這麼多的國家安全案件來去增加它安全核可的頻率\n244481\t267263\t我們是這樣子,我們在2月13號已經定班了一個國軍生命人員安全調查的作業規定它這個主要的就是說涉及到絕對機密跟密集有不同的查核的深度一般來講就是說像你可能絕對你要碰到絕對機密我們的這個\n268311\t276205\t整個查核對他期間的話是要長達七年都要進行一個查核\n278541\t302100\t對他的查核是有在他的七年之內的期間之內來進行一個比較深度的查核最頻率的意思是頻率的話原則上還是三年但如果他有發生的這個揭密等級要提升那麼或者植物異動或者要近身\n302720\t326306\t或者要將派任這個專案派護專案任務的話呢我們會再進行謝謝部長我再強調一次當初我們在質詢的時候部長就有提到說重點是他接觸的機密而不是他的職位的高低OK我們理解但是包含這位核心助理也好或者是我們最近蠻多起的共諜案件他們的\n327446\t354083\t接觸的機密就是說在他們被核可比方說我當初可能是被核可為接觸的密等只有普通或者是機密但是他卻是在這個國安會秘書長室所以他你可能把他核可為他接觸的機密是只有機密但是其實他甚至可以接觸到最高機密這就是我所擔心的部分這個機制有沒有辦法來去做一個看有沒有什麼樣更新的方式據我所知因為我現在已經不在國安會了我\n354903\t379329\t我想我只能夠說就我在國安會的期間之內確實比如說我在擔任國安會秘書長的時候就誰會接觸什麼樣的密等那都要經過我們的一個他會呈上來然後我們會來勾選他接觸的一個機密的範圍這樣是對所以說秘書長我說這個部長或者是說秘書長他們是來自己再去做核可的\n380319\t401488\t他自己來去勾選的對,在國安會的時期但是在國安部的話那就是由我們的軍事安全總隊來負責對,我的意思是說我希望有一個機制而不是一個人來決定說這一個人對,所以我們在國安部的部分我剛如同委員所講的就是說我們現在要防美軍的做法,就是說\n402188\t425038\t我因為一方面去年做了一個全面的查核之外,我們今年就揭秘的這個等級的部分做不同深度的查核那剛剛也提到了,原則上是三年,但如果它揭秘的這個等級提升,或者有植物異動等等的這些狀況的時候我們還要再進行查核,大概在國安部的部分是這樣\n426038\t452624\t好 非常感謝我希望這些機制能夠被導入到我們最高的國家安全的相關機關而不是以人來直接去進行勾選可能為了審視為了要偏移形式他直接把他的機密等級直接勾選普通或者是機密而已但是其實上他可能會接觸到的東西是更加的機密機敏性或者是他與首長的關係是更加的機密委員的意見我想\n454144\t473795\t我們國防部的已經就我們國防部所在進行的這個部分我想我們再跟其他的國安攤謝謝 謝謝部長好的 你們如果有一個比較好的方案的話請記得跟其他的國家的單位來去分享再來針對造船的部分那最近美方針對造船\n474395\t502636\t其實是有造船總局等等這些相關的方案都出現就是針對對中共的他們造船能力之大他們已經開始非常警惕要確保美國的海軍有足夠的船艦的能量甚至有定額是300多艘那現在來看的話造船的這個根據CSIS的這個圖就是中國的造船能力大概是全國全球的53%那接下來就是韓國跟日本\n503757\t530195\t我們台灣作為一個盟友我們也是海洋國家不知道有沒有什麼樣的可能性可以跟美方合作在造船或者是修復船隻的這些能力上面不知道部長有什麼看法呃我想 或者由海軍來分享也可以這個部分我想我並不覺得我們適宜在公開的場合來討論這樣的一件事情呃\n533057\t560315\t我們會後再跟委員能不能做報告部長這個是策略型的甚至是宣示型的我不是說要你要到幾艘是說你懂我意思嗎因為這個包含日本已經有許多的這一個日本的工業大學東京東工大還有東京大學的教授都不斷的強調說日本要主動積極的作為提案方加強跟美方在造船業上面的合作\n561485\t584648\t那我們台灣有沒有這個意向或者是這種能力我只能回答說我們有這個意向那很好非常好我希望我們有這個意向因為這是一個包含供應鏈也好我們的能力要把它總和起來這樣才可以跟美日韓菲律賓我們第一島鏈的這些國家才能夠有一個更完整的合作方向謝謝謝謝趙委員\n","txt":"你好 我們請部長\n部長最近台灣發生很多跟共諜相關的案件那其實從去年開始我們正式上任之後那我也不斷的針對安全核可的問題來去提醒我想請教一下吳釗燮國安會秘書長他擔任第一任國安會秘書長的時間點是在什麼時候那部長您擔任國安會秘書長的時間點是在什麼時候\n我擔任國安會秘書長應該是在2020的520然後到2024的520所以在這段期間我們國家的安全核可的機制跟吳釗燮秘書長擔任秘書長第一任秘書長的時候的安全核可機制有沒有什麼變化還是大概是一致的\n安全核可的機制在你擔任的時候跟吳釗燮擔任的時候那個時間點有沒有什麼變化那個時間點的變化有沒有把那個安全核可的機制有沒有做一些更新或者是加嚴類似這樣子\n應該沒有在國安會的期間應該沒有什麼沒有嘛 所以說大概從2016年到2024年的這段機制這段時間的機制大概跟過去大概是一樣那我自己是在2016年到2017年年中是在國安會認識那在這一年半中因為我被核可的密等是比較非這麼機敏性的\n那我大概是被核可大概安全背景審查大概做一次大概做一次一年半那但是就我所的我所知道的資訊安全核可裡面的一個揭秘層級是由國安會諮詢委員就是每一個國安會諮詢委員他自己的辦公室是由諮詢委員去來核可說這個是密等的接觸等級他可能是機密或者是普通或者是極機密等等\n那國安會祕書長他應該也有這樣子的機制在他的辦公室裡面那我這樣問的原因是因為我不針對人我們也不針對個案我們針對機制我也不想說誰要因為我覺得再講下去也沒有什麼意義但是機制我們必須要做一個查核\n媒體的眾多媒體的報導我相信他們也都經過證實就是這位核心的前助理他在八年只有一次的查核可是在八年一次的查核當中他已經經歷過國安會跟外交部甚至是其他的重要的機關跟委員稍微說明一下他並沒有\n我並不知道他在之前有沒有在國安會但是我在國安會的時間他並不在國安會沒有我沒有在講這件事情我沒有在說你要負這個責任所以我現在講機制喔部長你先不用那麼緊張我沒有要今天不討論人我們討論機制\n我不知道你2020年2024年這之間他在不在這不是重點重點是說他這一位這一位核心前助理他經歷過國安會他經歷過外交部可是在這八年他只有經過一次的查核像這樣子的他有可能未來我不知道假設這是沒有在這個調查局沒有把他調查到的話那他可能經歷的部會會很多種那理論上來講經過一定的時間點他揭秘當然層級一定會慢慢的上升嘛\n他這麼長年的在國安會也好或者是在外交部也好怎麼會只有一次安全查核我想請教一下部長在您旁邊的這些機要跟信任的幕僚人員是不是也會有固定的時間查核還是也是之前的機制八年來有可能只查核一次在國安部的部分我們查核的部分期限是三年查核的有效期限是三年所以每三年要查核一次\n那上次我們在質詢部長的時候部長有提到說未來重複的核可更加的把頻率增高來因應共體的威脅是有可能的部長有沒有考慮未來因應這麼多的國家安全案件來去增加它安全核可的頻率\n我們是這樣子,我們在2月13號已經定班了一個國軍生命人員安全調查的作業規定它這個主要的就是說涉及到絕對機密跟密集有不同的查核的深度一般來講就是說像你可能絕對你要碰到絕對機密我們的這個\n整個查核對他期間的話是要長達七年都要進行一個查核\n對他的查核是有在他的七年之內的期間之內來進行一個比較深度的查核最頻率的意思是頻率的話原則上還是三年但如果他有發生的這個揭密等級要提升那麼或者植物異動或者要近身\n或者要將派任這個專案派護專案任務的話呢我們會再進行謝謝部長我再強調一次當初我們在質詢的時候部長就有提到說重點是他接觸的機密而不是他的職位的高低OK我們理解但是包含這位核心助理也好或者是我們最近蠻多起的共諜案件他們的\n接觸的機密就是說在他們被核可比方說我當初可能是被核可為接觸的密等只有普通或者是機密但是他卻是在這個國安會秘書長室所以他你可能把他核可為他接觸的機密是只有機密但是其實他甚至可以接觸到最高機密這就是我所擔心的部分這個機制有沒有辦法來去做一個看有沒有什麼樣更新的方式據我所知因為我現在已經不在國安會了我\n我想我只能夠說就我在國安會的期間之內確實比如說我在擔任國安會秘書長的時候就誰會接觸什麼樣的密等那都要經過我們的一個他會呈上來然後我們會來勾選他接觸的一個機密的範圍這樣是對所以說秘書長我說這個部長或者是說秘書長他們是來自己再去做核可的\n他自己來去勾選的對,在國安會的時期但是在國安部的話那就是由我們的軍事安全總隊來負責對,我的意思是說我希望有一個機制而不是一個人來決定說這一個人對,所以我們在國安部的部分我剛如同委員所講的就是說我們現在要防美軍的做法,就是說\n我因為一方面去年做了一個全面的查核之外,我們今年就揭秘的這個等級的部分做不同深度的查核那剛剛也提到了,原則上是三年,但如果它揭秘的這個等級提升,或者有植物異動等等的這些狀況的時候我們還要再進行查核,大概在國安部的部分是這樣\n好 非常感謝我希望這些機制能夠被導入到我們最高的國家安全的相關機關而不是以人來直接去進行勾選可能為了審視為了要偏移形式他直接把他的機密等級直接勾選普通或者是機密而已但是其實上他可能會接觸到的東西是更加的機密機敏性或者是他與首長的關係是更加的機密委員的意見我想\n我們國防部的已經就我們國防部所在進行的這個部分我想我們再跟其他的國安攤謝謝 謝謝部長好的 你們如果有一個比較好的方案的話請記得跟其他的國家的單位來去分享再來針對造船的部分那最近美方針對造船\n其實是有造船總局等等這些相關的方案都出現就是針對對中共的他們造船能力之大他們已經開始非常警惕要確保美國的海軍有足夠的船艦的能量甚至有定額是300多艘那現在來看的話造船的這個根據CSIS的這個圖就是中國的造船能力大概是全國全球的53%那接下來就是韓國跟日本\n我們台灣作為一個盟友我們也是海洋國家不知道有沒有什麼樣的可能性可以跟美方合作在造船或者是修復船隻的這些能力上面不知道部長有什麼看法呃我想 或者由海軍來分享也可以這個部分我想我並不覺得我們適宜在公開的場合來討論這樣的一件事情呃\n我們會後再跟委員能不能做報告部長這個是策略型的甚至是宣示型的我不是說要你要到幾艘是說你懂我意思嗎因為這個包含日本已經有許多的這一個日本的工業大學東京東工大還有東京大學的教授都不斷的強調說日本要主動積極的作為提案方加強跟美方在造船業上面的合作\n那我們台灣有沒有這個意向或者是這種能力我只能回答說我們有這個意向那很好非常好我希望我們有這個意向因為這是一個包含供應鏈也好我們的能力要把它總和起來這樣才可以跟美日韓菲律賓我們第一島鏈的這些國家才能夠有一個更完整的合作方向謝謝謝謝趙委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.135 --> 00:00.541\n你好我們請部長\n\n00:11.873 --> 00:35.524\n部長最近台灣發生很多跟共諜相關的案件那其實從去年開始我們正式上任之後那我也不斷的針對安全核可的問題來去提醒我想請教一下吳釗燮國安會秘書長他擔任第一任國安會秘書長的時間點是在什麼時候那部長您擔任國安會秘書長的時間點是在什麼時候\n\n00:37.448 --> 01:00.140\n我擔任國安會秘書長應該是在2020的520然後到2024的520所以在這段期間我們國家的安全核可的機制跟吳釗燮秘書長擔任秘書長第一任秘書長的時候的安全核可機制有沒有什麼變化還是大概是一致的\n\n01:01.384 --> 01:14.551\n安全核可的機制在你擔任的時候跟吳釗燮擔任的時候那個時間點有沒有什麼變化那個時間點的變化有沒有把那個安全核可的機制有沒有做一些更新或者是加嚴類似這樣子\n\n01:17.173 --> 01:38.525\n應該沒有在國安會的期間應該沒有什麼沒有嘛所以說大概從2016年到2024年的這段機制這段時間的機制大概跟過去大概是一樣那我自己是在2016年到2017年年中是在國安會認識那在這一年半中因為我被核可的密等是比較非這麼機敏性的\n\n01:38.965 --> 02:02.674\n那我大概是被核可大概安全背景審查大概做一次大概做一次一年半那但是就我所的我所知道的資訊安全核可裡面的一個揭秘層級是由國安會諮詢委員就是每一個國安會諮詢委員他自己的辦公室是由諮詢委員去來核可說這個是密等的接觸等級他可能是機密或者是普通或者是極機密等等\n\n02:03.334 --> 02:18.468\n那國安會祕書長他應該也有這樣子的機制在他的辦公室裡面那我這樣問的原因是因為我不針對人我們也不針對個案我們針對機制我也不想說誰要因為我覺得再講下去也沒有什麼意義但是機制我們必須要做一個查核\n\n02:19.468 --> 02:35.738\n媒體的眾多媒體的報導我相信他們也都經過證實就是這位核心的前助理他在八年只有一次的查核可是在八年一次的查核當中他已經經歷過國安會跟外交部甚至是其他的重要的機關跟委員稍微說明一下他並沒有\n\n02:36.959 --> 02:48.555\n我並不知道他在之前有沒有在國安會但是我在國安會的時間他並不在國安會沒有我沒有在講這件事情我沒有在說你要負這個責任所以我現在講機制喔部長你先不用那麼緊張我沒有要今天不討論人我們討論機制\n\n02:52.461 --> 03:21.266\n我不知道你2020年2024年這之間他在不在這不是重點重點是說他這一位這一位核心前助理他經歷過國安會他經歷過外交部可是在這八年他只有經過一次的查核像這樣子的他有可能未來我不知道假設這是沒有在這個調查局沒有把他調查到的話那他可能經歷的部會會很多種那理論上來講經過一定的時間點他揭秘當然層級一定會慢慢的上升嘛\n\n03:22.352 --> 03:46.420\n他這麼長年的在國安會也好或者是在外交部也好怎麼會只有一次安全查核我想請教一下部長在您旁邊的這些機要跟信任的幕僚人員是不是也會有固定的時間查核還是也是之前的機制八年來有可能只查核一次在國安部的部分我們查核的部分期限是三年查核的有效期限是三年所以每三年要查核一次\n\n03:46.943 --> 04:02.599\n那上次我們在質詢部長的時候部長有提到說未來重複的核可更加的把頻率增高來因應共體的威脅是有可能的部長有沒有考慮未來因應這麼多的國家安全案件來去增加它安全核可的頻率\n\n04:04.481 --> 04:27.263\n我們是這樣子,我們在2月13號已經定班了一個國軍生命人員安全調查的作業規定它這個主要的就是說涉及到絕對機密跟密集有不同的查核的深度一般來講就是說像你可能絕對你要碰到絕對機密我們的這個\n\n04:28.311 --> 04:36.205\n整個查核對他期間的話是要長達七年都要進行一個查核\n\n04:38.541 --> 05:02.100\n對他的查核是有在他的七年之內的期間之內來進行一個比較深度的查核最頻率的意思是頻率的話原則上還是三年但如果他有發生的這個揭密等級要提升那麼或者植物異動或者要近身\n\n05:02.720 --> 05:26.306\n或者要將派任這個專案派護專案任務的話呢我們會再進行謝謝部長我再強調一次當初我們在質詢的時候部長就有提到說重點是他接觸的機密而不是他的職位的高低OK我們理解但是包含這位核心助理也好或者是我們最近蠻多起的共諜案件他們的\n\n05:27.446 --> 05:54.083\n接觸的機密就是說在他們被核可比方說我當初可能是被核可為接觸的密等只有普通或者是機密但是他卻是在這個國安會秘書長室所以他你可能把他核可為他接觸的機密是只有機密但是其實他甚至可以接觸到最高機密這就是我所擔心的部分這個機制有沒有辦法來去做一個看有沒有什麼樣更新的方式據我所知因為我現在已經不在國安會了我\n\n05:54.903 --> 06:19.329\n我想我只能夠說就我在國安會的期間之內確實比如說我在擔任國安會秘書長的時候就誰會接觸什麼樣的密等那都要經過我們的一個他會呈上來然後我們會來勾選他接觸的一個機密的範圍這樣是對所以說秘書長我說這個部長或者是說秘書長他們是來自己再去做核可的\n\n06:20.319 --> 06:41.488\n他自己來去勾選的對,在國安會的時期但是在國安部的話那就是由我們的軍事安全總隊來負責對,我的意思是說我希望有一個機制而不是一個人來決定說這一個人對,所以我們在國安部的部分我剛如同委員所講的就是說我們現在要防美軍的做法,就是說\n\n06:42.188 --> 07:05.038\n我因為一方面去年做了一個全面的查核之外,我們今年就揭秘的這個等級的部分做不同深度的查核那剛剛也提到了,原則上是三年,但如果它揭秘的這個等級提升,或者有植物異動等等的這些狀況的時候我們還要再進行查核,大概在國安部的部分是這樣\n\n07:06.038 --> 07:32.624\n好非常感謝我希望這些機制能夠被導入到我們最高的國家安全的相關機關而不是以人來直接去進行勾選可能為了審視為了要偏移形式他直接把他的機密等級直接勾選普通或者是機密而已但是其實上他可能會接觸到的東西是更加的機密機敏性或者是他與首長的關係是更加的機密委員的意見我想\n\n07:34.144 --> 07:53.795\n我們國防部的已經就我們國防部所在進行的這個部分我想我們再跟其他的國安攤謝謝謝謝部長好的你們如果有一個比較好的方案的話請記得跟其他的國家的單位來去分享再來針對造船的部分那最近美方針對造船\n\n07:54.395 --> 08:22.636\n其實是有造船總局等等這些相關的方案都出現就是針對對中共的他們造船能力之大他們已經開始非常警惕要確保美國的海軍有足夠的船艦的能量甚至有定額是300多艘那現在來看的話造船的這個根據CSIS的這個圖就是中國的造船能力大概是全國全球的53%那接下來就是韓國跟日本\n\n08:23.757 --> 08:50.195\n我們台灣作為一個盟友我們也是海洋國家不知道有沒有什麼樣的可能性可以跟美方合作在造船或者是修復船隻的這些能力上面不知道部長有什麼看法呃我想或者由海軍來分享也可以這個部分我想我並不覺得我們適宜在公開的場合來討論這樣的一件事情呃\n\n08:53.057 --> 09:20.315\n我們會後再跟委員能不能做報告部長這個是策略型的甚至是宣示型的我不是說要你要到幾艘是說你懂我意思嗎因為這個包含日本已經有許多的這一個日本的工業大學東京東工大還有東京大學的教授都不斷的強調說日本要主動積極的作為提案方加強跟美方在造船業上面的合作\n\n09:21.485 --> 09:44.648\n那我們台灣有沒有這個意向或者是這種能力我只能回答說我們有這個意向那很好非常好我希望我們有這個意向因為這是一個包含供應鏈也好我們的能力要把它總和起來這樣才可以跟美日韓菲律賓我們第一島鏈的這些國家才能夠有一個更完整的合作方向謝謝謝謝趙委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.135,"end":0.541,"text":"你好 我們請部長"},{"start":11.873,"end":35.524,"text":"部長最近台灣發生很多跟共諜相關的案件那其實從去年開始我們正式上任之後那我也不斷的針對安全核可的問題來去提醒我想請教一下吳釗燮國安會秘書長他擔任第一任國安會秘書長的時間點是在什麼時候那部長您擔任國安會秘書長的時間點是在什麼時候"},{"start":37.448,"end":60.14,"text":"我擔任國安會秘書長應該是在2020的520然後到2024的520所以在這段期間我們國家的安全核可的機制跟吳釗燮秘書長擔任秘書長第一任秘書長的時候的安全核可機制有沒有什麼變化還是大概是一致的"},{"start":61.384,"end":74.551,"text":"安全核可的機制在你擔任的時候跟吳釗燮擔任的時候那個時間點有沒有什麼變化那個時間點的變化有沒有把那個安全核可的機制有沒有做一些更新或者是加嚴類似這樣子"},{"start":77.173,"end":98.525,"text":"應該沒有在國安會的期間應該沒有什麼沒有嘛 所以說大概從2016年到2024年的這段機制這段時間的機制大概跟過去大概是一樣那我自己是在2016年到2017年年中是在國安會認識那在這一年半中因為我被核可的密等是比較非這麼機敏性的"},{"start":98.965,"end":122.674,"text":"那我大概是被核可大概安全背景審查大概做一次大概做一次一年半那但是就我所的我所知道的資訊安全核可裡面的一個揭秘層級是由國安會諮詢委員就是每一個國安會諮詢委員他自己的辦公室是由諮詢委員去來核可說這個是密等的接觸等級他可能是機密或者是普通或者是極機密等等"},{"start":123.334,"end":138.468,"text":"那國安會祕書長他應該也有這樣子的機制在他的辦公室裡面那我這樣問的原因是因為我不針對人我們也不針對個案我們針對機制我也不想說誰要因為我覺得再講下去也沒有什麼意義但是機制我們必須要做一個查核"},{"start":139.468,"end":155.738,"text":"媒體的眾多媒體的報導我相信他們也都經過證實就是這位核心的前助理他在八年只有一次的查核可是在八年一次的查核當中他已經經歷過國安會跟外交部甚至是其他的重要的機關跟委員稍微說明一下他並沒有"},{"start":156.959,"end":168.555,"text":"我並不知道他在之前有沒有在國安會但是我在國安會的時間他並不在國安會沒有我沒有在講這件事情我沒有在說你要負這個責任所以我現在講機制喔部長你先不用那麼緊張我沒有要今天不討論人我們討論機制"},{"start":172.461,"end":201.266,"text":"我不知道你2020年2024年這之間他在不在這不是重點重點是說他這一位這一位核心前助理他經歷過國安會他經歷過外交部可是在這八年他只有經過一次的查核像這樣子的他有可能未來我不知道假設這是沒有在這個調查局沒有把他調查到的話那他可能經歷的部會會很多種那理論上來講經過一定的時間點他揭秘當然層級一定會慢慢的上升嘛"},{"start":202.352,"end":226.42,"text":"他這麼長年的在國安會也好或者是在外交部也好怎麼會只有一次安全查核我想請教一下部長在您旁邊的這些機要跟信任的幕僚人員是不是也會有固定的時間查核還是也是之前的機制八年來有可能只查核一次在國安部的部分我們查核的部分期限是三年查核的有效期限是三年所以每三年要查核一次"},{"start":226.943,"end":242.599,"text":"那上次我們在質詢部長的時候部長有提到說未來重複的核可更加的把頻率增高來因應共體的威脅是有可能的部長有沒有考慮未來因應這麼多的國家安全案件來去增加它安全核可的頻率"},{"start":244.481,"end":267.263,"text":"我們是這樣子,我們在2月13號已經定班了一個國軍生命人員安全調查的作業規定它這個主要的就是說涉及到絕對機密跟密集有不同的查核的深度一般來講就是說像你可能絕對你要碰到絕對機密我們的這個"},{"start":268.311,"end":276.205,"text":"整個查核對他期間的話是要長達七年都要進行一個查核"},{"start":278.541,"end":302.1,"text":"對他的查核是有在他的七年之內的期間之內來進行一個比較深度的查核最頻率的意思是頻率的話原則上還是三年但如果他有發生的這個揭密等級要提升那麼或者植物異動或者要近身"},{"start":302.72,"end":326.306,"text":"或者要將派任這個專案派護專案任務的話呢我們會再進行謝謝部長我再強調一次當初我們在質詢的時候部長就有提到說重點是他接觸的機密而不是他的職位的高低OK我們理解但是包含這位核心助理也好或者是我們最近蠻多起的共諜案件他們的"},{"start":327.446,"end":354.083,"text":"接觸的機密就是說在他們被核可比方說我當初可能是被核可為接觸的密等只有普通或者是機密但是他卻是在這個國安會秘書長室所以他你可能把他核可為他接觸的機密是只有機密但是其實他甚至可以接觸到最高機密這就是我所擔心的部分這個機制有沒有辦法來去做一個看有沒有什麼樣更新的方式據我所知因為我現在已經不在國安會了我"},{"start":354.903,"end":379.329,"text":"我想我只能夠說就我在國安會的期間之內確實比如說我在擔任國安會秘書長的時候就誰會接觸什麼樣的密等那都要經過我們的一個他會呈上來然後我們會來勾選他接觸的一個機密的範圍這樣是對所以說秘書長我說這個部長或者是說秘書長他們是來自己再去做核可的"},{"start":380.319,"end":401.488,"text":"他自己來去勾選的對,在國安會的時期但是在國安部的話那就是由我們的軍事安全總隊來負責對,我的意思是說我希望有一個機制而不是一個人來決定說這一個人對,所以我們在國安部的部分我剛如同委員所講的就是說我們現在要防美軍的做法,就是說"},{"start":402.188,"end":425.038,"text":"我因為一方面去年做了一個全面的查核之外,我們今年就揭秘的這個等級的部分做不同深度的查核那剛剛也提到了,原則上是三年,但如果它揭秘的這個等級提升,或者有植物異動等等的這些狀況的時候我們還要再進行查核,大概在國安部的部分是這樣"},{"start":426.038,"end":452.624,"text":"好 非常感謝我希望這些機制能夠被導入到我們最高的國家安全的相關機關而不是以人來直接去進行勾選可能為了審視為了要偏移形式他直接把他的機密等級直接勾選普通或者是機密而已但是其實上他可能會接觸到的東西是更加的機密機敏性或者是他與首長的關係是更加的機密委員的意見我想"},{"start":454.144,"end":473.795,"text":"我們國防部的已經就我們國防部所在進行的這個部分我想我們再跟其他的國安攤謝謝 謝謝部長好的 你們如果有一個比較好的方案的話請記得跟其他的國家的單位來去分享再來針對造船的部分那最近美方針對造船"},{"start":474.395,"end":502.636,"text":"其實是有造船總局等等這些相關的方案都出現就是針對對中共的他們造船能力之大他們已經開始非常警惕要確保美國的海軍有足夠的船艦的能量甚至有定額是300多艘那現在來看的話造船的這個根據CSIS的這個圖就是中國的造船能力大概是全國全球的53%那接下來就是韓國跟日本"},{"start":503.757,"end":530.195,"text":"我們台灣作為一個盟友我們也是海洋國家不知道有沒有什麼樣的可能性可以跟美方合作在造船或者是修復船隻的這些能力上面不知道部長有什麼看法呃我想 或者由海軍來分享也可以這個部分我想我並不覺得我們適宜在公開的場合來討論這樣的一件事情呃"},{"start":533.057,"end":560.315,"text":"我們會後再跟委員能不能做報告部長這個是策略型的甚至是宣示型的我不是說要你要到幾艘是說你懂我意思嗎因為這個包含日本已經有許多的這一個日本的工業大學東京東工大還有東京大學的教授都不斷的強調說日本要主動積極的作為提案方加強跟美方在造船業上面的合作"},{"start":561.485,"end":584.648,"text":"那我們台灣有沒有這個意向或者是這種能力我只能回答說我們有這個意向那很好非常好我希望我們有這個意向因為這是一個包含供應鏈也好我們的能力要把它總和起來這樣才可以跟美日韓菲律賓我們第一島鏈的這些國家才能夠有一個更完整的合作方向謝謝謝謝趙委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":156,"blocks":[["陳委員冠廷：（9時19分）好，我們請部長。"],["顧部長立雄：是，陳委員。"],["陳委員冠廷：部長好。最近臺灣發生很多跟共諜相關的案件，其實從去年開始，我們正式上任之後，我也不斷針對安全核可的問題來提醒。我想請教，國安會秘書長吳釗燮擔任第一任國安會秘書長的時間點是在什麼時候，而部長您擔任國安會秘書長的時間點是在什麼時候？"],["顧部長立雄：我擔任國安會秘書長應該是在2020的520，然後到2024的520。"],["陳委員冠廷：在這段期間我們國家的安全核可機制，跟吳釗燮秘書長擔任第一任秘書長時的安全核可機制有沒有什麼變化，還是大概是一致的？"],["顧部長立雄：安全核可的機制……"],["陳委員冠廷：在你擔任的時候跟吳釗燮擔任時的那個時間點，有沒有什麼變化？那個時間點的變化，有沒有把安全核可的機制做一些更新？或者是加嚴，類似這樣子。"],["顧部長立雄：應該沒有，在國安會的期間應該沒有什麼很大的變化。"],["陳委員冠廷：沒有嘛！所以從2016年到2024年這段時間的機制，跟過去大概是一樣。我自己在2016年到2017年年中是在國安會任職，在這一年半中，因為我被核可的密等是比較非這麼機敏性的，我被核可的大概安全背景審查做一次，大概做一次、一年半。但是就我所知道的資訊，安全核可裡面的接密層級是由國安會諮詢委員，就是每一個國安會諮詢委員他自己的辦公室，是由諮詢委員核可這個是密等的接觸等級，它可能是機密或者普通，或者是極機密等等。國安會秘書長應該也有這樣子的機制，在他的辦公室裡面。","我這樣問的原因是因為，我不針對人，我們也不針對個案，我們針對機制，我也不想說誰要……因為我覺得再講下去也沒有什麼意義，但是機制我們必須要做一個查核。眾多媒體的報導，我相信他們也都經過證實，就是這位何姓前助理，他在8年中只有一次的查核，可是在8年一次的查核當中他已經歷過國安會跟外交部，甚至是其他的重要機關。"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員稍微說明，我並不知道他之前有沒有在國安會，但是我在國安會期間，他並不在國安會。"],["陳委員冠廷：沒有，我沒有在講這件事情，我沒有在說你要負這個責任。"],["顧部長立雄：對……他現在……在外交部。"],["陳委員冠廷：我現在在講機制，部長先不用那麼緊張，我沒有要……今天不討論人，我們討論機制。我不知道你2020年至2024年這之間他在不在，這不是重點。重點是這一位何姓前助理經歷過國安會、他經歷過外交部，可是在這8年他只有經過一次的查核。像這樣子，未來我不知道，假設調查局沒有把他調查到的話，那他可能經歷的部會會有很多種。理論上來講，經過一定的時間點，他接密的層級當然一定會慢慢地上升，他這麼長年在國安會也好，或者是在外交部也好，怎麼會只有一次安全查核？我想請教部長，在您旁邊的這些機要跟信任的幕僚人員是不是也會有固定的時間查核，還是也循之前的機制8年來有可能只查核一次？"],["顧部長立雄：在國防部部分，我們查核的有效期限是3年，所以每3年要查核一次。"],["陳委員冠廷：上次我們質詢部長的時候，部長有提到，未來重複地核可、更加地把頻率增高來因應共諜的威脅是有可能的。部長有沒有考慮，未來因應這麼多的國家安全案件，增加他安全核可的頻率？"],["顧部長立雄：我們是這樣子，在2月13號已經訂頒了一個國軍涉密人員安全調查的作業規定，主要就是涉及到絕對機密、極機密跟密級有不同的查核深度。一般來講，你要碰到絕對機密，我們整個查核，對他的這個期間的話是長達7年，都要進行一個查核。就是對他的查核，是有在他的7年之內的這個期間內，進行一個比較深度的查核。"],["陳委員冠廷：所以頻率的意思是……"],["顧部長立雄：頻率的話，原則上還是3年，但如果他有發生了接密等級要提升或者職務異動，或者要晉升，或者將派專案任務的話，我們會再進行。"],["陳委員冠廷：謝謝部長。我再強調一次，當初我們質詢的時候部長就有提到，重點是他接觸的機密，而不是他職位的高低。OK，我們理解，但是包含這位何姓助理也好，或者我們最近蠻多起的共諜案件，他們接觸的機密，就是他們被核可的，比方我當初可能是被核可為接觸的密等只有普通或者機密，但他卻是在國安會秘書長室。你可能把他核可為他接觸的是只有機密，但其實他甚至可以接觸到最高機密，這就是我所擔心的部分，這個機制看有沒有什麼樣更新的方式。"],["顧部長立雄：就我所知，因為我現在已經不在國安會了，我想我只能夠說，就我在國安會的期間之內，比如我在擔任國安會秘書長的時候，就誰會接觸什麼樣的密等，會陳上來，然後我們會勾選他接觸的機密範圍。"],["陳委員冠廷：對，所以部長或者秘書長，他們是自己再去做核可的，他自己去勾選的，就我所知。"],["顧部長立雄：對，在國安會的時期。但在國防部的話，那就是由我們的軍事安全總隊負責。"],["陳委員冠廷：對，我的意思是，我希望有一個機制，而不是一個人來決定這一個人他大概只有普通……"],["顧部長立雄：對，所以在國防部的部分，剛剛如同委員所講的，我們現在要仿美軍的作法，我們一方面在去年做了一個全面的查核之外，今年就接密等級的部分做不同深度的查核。剛剛也提到，原則上是3年，但如果他接密的個等級提升，或者有職務異動等等的這些狀況的時候，我們還要再進行查核，大概在國安部的部分是這樣子。"],["陳委員冠廷：好，非常感謝，我希望這些機制能夠被導入到我們最高的國家安全的相關機關，而不是以人直接去進行勾選。有的時候可能為了省事，為了要便宜行事，他直接把他的接密等級勾選為普通或者是機密而已，但其實他可能會接觸到的東西是更加機密、機敏性，或者他與首長的關係是更加緊密。"],["顧部長立雄：是，委員的意見，我想就國防部已經在進行的部分，我們再跟其他的國安團隊來進行研議。"],["陳委員冠廷：好的，謝謝部長，你們如果有一個比較好的方案的話，請記得跟其他的國安單位分享。再來，針對造船的部分，最近美方針對造船其實有造船總局等等這些相關的方案出現，因為中共的造船能力之大，他們已經開始非常警惕，並要確保美國的海軍有足夠的船艦能量，甚至有定額是三百多艘。現在根據CSIS的這個圖來看，中國的造船能力大概占全球的53%，接下來是韓國和日本，我們臺灣作為一個盟友，也是海洋國家，不知道有沒有什麼樣的可能性可以跟美方合作，在造船或是修復船隻的這些能力上面，不知道部長有什麼看法？或者由海軍來分享也可以。"],["顧部長立雄：這個部分我並不覺得我們適宜在公開的場合來討論這樣的事情，我們能不能會後再跟委員做報告？"],["陳委員冠廷：部長，這個是策略型的，甚至是宣示型的，我不是要你造幾艘，你懂我的意思嗎？因為日本已經有許多的學校，包含日本東京工業大學（東工大）還有東京大學的教授都不斷強調，日本要主動積極地作為提案方，加強與美方在造船業上面的合作，我們臺灣有沒有這個意向或是這種能力？"],["顧部長立雄：我只能回答我們有這個意向。"],["陳委員冠廷：那很好，非常好！我希望我們有這個意向，因為這是一個包含供應鏈也好，我們要把這個能力總合起來，這樣才可以跟美、日、韓、菲律賓這些第一島鏈的國家能夠有一個更完整的合作方向，謝謝。"],["顧部長立雄：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝冠廷、謝謝部長。","接下來有請羅美玲委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":272,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-8","speakers":["沈伯洋","陳冠廷","羅美玲","陳俊宇","林楚茵","王定宇","馬文君","徐巧芯","吳宗憲","邱志偉","林憶君","黃仁"],"page_start":235,"meetingDate":["2025-04-16"],"gazette_id":"1143702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143702_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查本院委員沈伯洋等17人擬具「陸海空軍軍官士官服役條例部分條文修正草案」案（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"1143702_00005"}}}