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55.443, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"喔\", \"start\": 55.443, \"end\": 55.883, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 55.883, \"end\": 55.903, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}]}, {\"start\": 57.904, \"end\": 74.924, \"text\": \"現在中國滲透我們的樣態非常多,一個最新的當然就是士林憲兵自拍投降影片,然後還有就是第一階的軍官遭到了這些所謂的用關鍵的技術來換取情資等等這些部分跟樣態,PTT怎麼回事?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 57.904, \"end\": 58.104, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 58.104, \"end\": 58.724, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"滲\"}, {\"word\": \"透\", \"start\": 58.724, \"end\": 59.145, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 59.145, \"end\": 59.305, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 59.305, \"end\": 59.806, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"態\"}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 59.806, \"end\": 59.886, \"score\": 0.728}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 59.886, \"end\": 60.106, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 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96.648, \"text\": \"那麼過去呢其實我也主張就是要把他們的退休金收回那麼不只是今天的修法甚至於如果判國我要加重刑罰所以本席過去一直非常強調的就是軍人必須是國家的軍人不只是在軍中甚至於在他們的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 76.692, \"end\": 77.773, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 77.773, \"end\": 77.993, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 77.993, \"end\": 78.314, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 78.314, \"end\": 79.134, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 79.134, \"end\": 79.294, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 79.294, \"end\": 79.495, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 79.495, \"end\": 80.015, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 80.015, \"end\": 80.175, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 80.175, \"end\": 80.315, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 80.315, \"end\": 80.475, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 80.475, \"end\": 80.635, \"score\": 0.871}, 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00:00:55,903\n我在過去的質詢當中也曾經關心過包括這個退役的這些軍官們他們的退休金的問題追回的問題其實我也都一直在追吹拂會這個方面的部分那麼其實今天的修法剛好其實讓外界可以更關心那就是我認為中國或者是所謂的威權國家步步逼近的情況底下其實對於我們來說真的是一個蠻大的壓力喔那麼\n\n4\n00:00:57,904 --> 00:01:14,924\n現在中國滲透我們的樣態非常多,一個最新的當然就是士林憲兵自拍投降影片,然後還有就是第一階的軍官遭到了這些所謂的用關鍵的技術來換取情資等等這些部分跟樣態,PTT怎麼回事?\n\n5\n00:01:16,692 --> 00:01:36,648\n那麼過去呢其實我也主張就是要把他們的退休金收回那麼不只是今天的修法甚至於如果判國我要加重刑罰所以本席過去一直非常強調的就是軍人必須是國家的軍人不只是在軍中甚至於在他們的\n\n6\n00:01:37,128 --> 00:01:41,512\n私底下的所作所為都非常的重要這個也是之前當我接到翠友講到說我們的空軍的副參謀長是不是在所謂的群組當中的發言不符合需求\n\n7\n00:01:52,182 --> 00:02:14,163\n那麼我也看到了空軍跟國防部的相關的說法這個部分其實都證明了其實只要國軍不論是檯面上或私底下都非常的重要喔那麼部長我來請問你一下就是有關於在修法加重判國的部分其實還有另外一個我提出來的陸海空軍刑罰部分條例的修正草案\n\n8\n00:02:14,864 --> 00:02:31,905\n其實不是只有他們的退休縫應該移除甚至於所謂的預備犯或預備投降的作為是不是你也考慮要把他修法進來因為就剛像我剛剛所講到的這些樣態比如說他拍投降的影片又或者是他因為\n\n9\n00:02:33,206 --> 00:02:47,871\n本身有經濟上的困難所以說他去交換了這些所謂相關的情資那麼除了今天的修法之外接下來如果有預備投降的行為是不是也應該要補破網來修法\n\n10\n00:02:48,992 --> 00:03:16,159\n跟委員報告我們現在在行政院審議當中的這個陸海公軍刑法24條他除了加一項就是就是對這個敵人為投降的這樣子效忠的這樣子的一個表示的時候就本身就會構成陸海違反陸海公軍刑法那另外投敵的部分我們加了陰謀犯跟預備犯的部分\n\n11\n00:03:16,758 --> 00:03:36,406\n那現在已經在行政院審議當中好所以言下之意這個行政院在審議當中的話那就表示有沒有可能在這個會期可以加進來因為本席認為目前我們包括今天要討論的法案再到後續的它其實需要一個完備跟整備那麼這個部分您在期程上面您認為這個會期可能嗎還是說要到下個會期\n\n12\n00:03:42,327 --> 00:03:57,756\n行政院我們當然是希望列入優先法案國安部的立場是希望列入優先法案所以行政院如果審議完畢之後我們當然希望儘快提出來好我們其實在這裡的話我相信本委員會的委員會希望能夠\n\n13\n00:03:59,198 --> 00:04:10,599\n這個法案能夠緊速放進來討論另外第二個就是有關於無人機的部分我想在過去我們在委員會當中常常講到的是打造\n\n14\n00:04:12,113 --> 00:04:28,783\n國際民主的供應鏈那麼對於台灣來講其實這個非常重要尤其是現在我們在跟美國進行所謂對等關稅的談判的過程當中美國非常在乎那就是台灣你選在哪一邊是中國的這一邊呢還是美國的這所謂民主陣營的這一邊那麼當然我們知道我們有許多的這個軍購的武器是透過美國這邊\n\n15\n00:04:38,068 --> 00:05:02,962\n來提供我們但是如果我們能夠有自己的供應鏈那也是一個非常好的那麼打造無人機供應鏈的這個部分呢我們在落實國防自主跟打造去紅供應鏈的部分國防部現在如何來推動研擬強化國防自主呢在有關於技術轉移跟落實的部分其實本席有提了兩個修法而這兩個修法當中我們都希望是能夠把一定\n\n16\n00:05:03,842 --> 00:05:23,318\n的這個所謂國防製組當中的武器以及技術轉移要能夠放進來那麼另外一個就是其實在台灣高手在民間過去我們都講說在台灣的AI的部分我們要找黃仁勳回來那蘇之鋒能夠加入那麼本席發現其實我們在\n\n17\n00:05:24,139 --> 00:05:36,574\n我們自己國人所擔任負責人的這樣一個公司他跟美軍都有專案合作我不曉得部長知不知道這一間耐能晶片公司\n\n18\n00:05:41,567 --> 00:05:58,797\n要讓專業的來是不是我不曉得中科院能夠講到什麼程度他跟我們也有一些合作的關係他承接我們的一些技術的轉移所以說基本上國際美軍所使用的這間公司我們也有把他找來合作\n\n19\n00:05:59,797 --> 00:06:14,294\n如果是真的機密的部分可以不用回應因為其實本席會提出這一題是因為我發現高手真的在民間其實有很多是我們台灣之光創辦人他可能真的都是台灣人就像黃仁勳一樣只是\n\n20\n00:06:16,516 --> 00:06:32,434\n他可能在國外成立公司那這樣子募資是比較容易的那麼其實國人常常都會講說我們台灣的研發能力是不是不夠那麼當我們要跟別人合作的時候人家是不是不願意那麼我比較想要了解的是以部長或者是我們\n\n21\n00:06:33,175 --> 00:06:48,203\n中會院的角度怎麼來看就是當我們真的有民間高手的時候那我們有多少的合作或是有多少的協助那麼或是有多少的這個部分是可以在合作之後又能做技術的轉移部長跟委員報告我覺得我只能夠說到這樣的程度就是說\n\n22\n00:06:57,645 --> 00:07:15,072\n美國在政策面上面他希望我們民間中科院跟美國的這些相關具有關鍵技術的公司三方能夠合作打造一個去紅的供應鏈\n\n23\n00:07:16,132 --> 00:07:32,019\n那這樣的一個政策經由這樣的確定之後呢他們鼓勵相關的公司來台灣那不管跟民間也好那當然就國防部來講特別是跟中科院也好有相當多的這樣子的一個\n\n24\n00:07:34,424 --> 00:07:51,740\n這些共同研發也好,技術轉移也好但是我想詳細的這個部分,如果委員想要了解的話,我覺得我們可能只能私下再去跟委員做一些說明跟報告,可能不宜在這個地方做過多的說明\n\n25\n00:07:52,000 --> 00:08:08,735\n好沒有問題喔因為這個畢竟也是我們重要的技術我會提出這一點當然最重要的就是川普現在他也在所謂拼他的這個整個國家整體經濟啦那麼當然我們事實上我們的軍售有高達219.5億美元現在是錢擺在那裡但是沒有\n\n26\n00:08:15,287 --> 00:08:31,028\n交貨這是這樣嗎還是說這只是媒體報導上面所提出來的應該現在沒有這樣子的一個高達這樣的經驗我想那個鼓勵處長也已經說明過了詹惠寺要不要再說明一下好\n\n27\n00:08:32,430 --> 00:08:58,627\n報告委員,我是站官司司長跟委員報告在過去幾年因為受到疫情影響的國際供應鏈目前已經逐漸在恢復正常所以委員也可以看到從去年開始我們主要的武器裝備已經陸續貨裝那卡托研究所報的這個219億的這個數字事實上跟我們目前實際掌握的是有相當大的落差大部分的案子都已經正常在走\n\n28\n00:08:59,087 --> 00:09:26,152\n好所以說其實是因為受到疫情影響那麼在這個部分其實交貨的部分也沒有問題現在變成只有這可以講到什麼可以講的講就是說不能講的我們可以會後來說是我想應該是說大部分的都應該有看到比如說因為\n\n29\n00:09:28,967 --> 00:09:34,435\n大家會過去講托斯2B我們就公開講托斯2B已經交運了\n\n30\n00:09:37,799 --> 00:09:58,169\n現在F-16首駕已經在辦理交機,那我們希望當然在明年的年底之間還是能夠如期交互那其他的包括海馬斯跟M1A2我想進度都正常好,我想其實在有關於兩岸軍事合作上面啦,不論是武器面或者是訓練面台灣無庸置疑的絕對會是美國的優先夥伴\n\n31\n00:09:59,910 --> 00:10:25,367\n一方面剛剛我前面問到的我們國防自主然後我們在技術上面能夠獲得更多的去紅工藝鏈之外我們自己有能力自主那麼另外一方面當然就是不要讓外界覺得說好像我們其實是有努力在爭取軍購但是有什麼地方卡關了那麼今天在部長或者是相關的說明當中我們也感受到就是其實國防部在這兩個部分都有持續在做努力好謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n692\t2178\t謝謝主席主席有請我們顧部長有請顧部長 謝謝\n9843\t27556\t林委員好部長好部長我想今天其實修法真的是召委選在這個時候來討論陸海空軍事官服役條例的修正草案真的是正是時候啦我想面對這個共軍或者是共諜不斷的透過軍中來做滲透\n30698\t55903\t我在過去的質詢當中也曾經關心過包括這個退役的這些軍官們他們的退休金的問題追回的問題其實我也都一直在追吹拂會這個方面的部分那麼其實今天的修法剛好其實讓外界可以更關心那就是我認為中國或者是所謂的威權國家步步逼近的情況底下其實對於我們來說真的是一個蠻大的壓力喔那麼\n57904\t74924\t現在中國滲透我們的樣態非常多,一個最新的當然就是士林憲兵自拍投降影片,然後還有就是第一階的軍官遭到了這些所謂的用關鍵的技術來換取情資等等這些部分跟樣態,PTT怎麼回事?\n76692\t96648\t那麼過去呢其實我也主張就是要把他們的退休金收回那麼不只是今天的修法甚至於如果判國我要加重刑罰所以本席過去一直非常強調的就是軍人必須是國家的軍人不只是在軍中甚至於在他們的\n97128\t101512\t私底下的所作所為都非常的重要這個也是之前當我接到翠友講到說我們的空軍的副參謀長是不是在所謂的群組當中的發言不符合需求\n112182\t134163\t那麼我也看到了空軍跟國防部的相關的說法這個部分其實都證明了其實只要國軍不論是檯面上或私底下都非常的重要喔那麼部長我來請問你一下就是有關於在修法加重判國的部分其實還有另外一個我提出來的陸海空軍刑罰部分條例的修正草案\n134864\t151905\t其實不是只有他們的退休縫應該移除甚至於所謂的預備犯或預備投降的作為是不是你也考慮要把他修法進來因為就剛像我剛剛所講到的這些樣態比如說他拍投降的影片又或者是他因為\n153206\t167871\t本身有經濟上的困難所以說他去交換了這些所謂相關的情資那麼除了今天的修法之外接下來如果有預備投降的行為是不是也應該要補破網來修法\n168992\t196159\t跟委員報告我們現在在行政院審議當中的這個陸海公軍刑法24條他除了加一項就是就是對這個敵人為投降的這樣子效忠的這樣子的一個表示的時候就本身就會構成陸海違反陸海公軍刑法那另外投敵的部分我們加了陰謀犯跟預備犯的部分\n196758\t216406\t那現在已經在行政院審議當中好所以言下之意這個行政院在審議當中的話那就表示有沒有可能在這個會期可以加進來因為本席認為目前我們包括今天要討論的法案再到後續的它其實需要一個完備跟整備那麼這個部分您在期程上面您認為這個會期可能嗎還是說要到下個會期\n222327\t237756\t行政院我們當然是希望列入優先法案國安部的立場是希望列入優先法案所以行政院如果審議完畢之後我們當然希望儘快提出來好我們其實在這裡的話我相信本委員會的委員會希望能夠\n239198\t250599\t這個法案能夠緊速放進來討論另外第二個就是有關於無人機的部分我想在過去我們在委員會當中常常講到的是打造\n252113\t268783\t國際民主的供應鏈那麼對於台灣來講其實這個非常重要尤其是現在我們在跟美國進行所謂對等關稅的談判的過程當中美國非常在乎那就是台灣你選在哪一邊是中國的這一邊呢還是美國的這所謂民主陣營的這一邊那麼當然我們知道我們有許多的這個軍購的武器是透過美國這邊\n278068\t302962\t來提供我們但是如果我們能夠有自己的供應鏈那也是一個非常好的那麼打造無人機供應鏈的這個部分呢我們在落實國防自主跟打造去紅供應鏈的部分國防部現在如何來推動研擬強化國防自主呢在有關於技術轉移跟落實的部分其實本席有提了兩個修法而這兩個修法當中我們都希望是能夠把一定\n303842\t323318\t的這個所謂國防製組當中的武器以及技術轉移要能夠放進來那麼另外一個就是其實在台灣高手在民間過去我們都講說在台灣的AI的部分我們要找黃仁勳回來那蘇之鋒能夠加入那麼本席發現其實我們在\n324139\t336574\t我們自己國人所擔任負責人的這樣一個公司他跟美軍都有專案合作我不曉得部長知不知道這一間耐能晶片公司\n341567\t358797\t要讓專業的來是不是我不曉得中科院能夠講到什麼程度他跟我們也有一些合作的關係他承接我們的一些技術的轉移所以說基本上國際美軍所使用的這間公司我們也有把他找來合作\n359797\t374294\t如果是真的機密的部分可以不用回應因為其實本席會提出這一題是因為我發現高手真的在民間其實有很多是我們台灣之光創辦人他可能真的都是台灣人就像黃仁勳一樣只是\n376516\t392434\t他可能在國外成立公司那這樣子募資是比較容易的那麼其實國人常常都會講說我們台灣的研發能力是不是不夠那麼當我們要跟別人合作的時候人家是不是不願意那麼我比較想要了解的是以部長或者是我們\n393175\t408203\t中會院的角度怎麼來看就是當我們真的有民間高手的時候那我們有多少的合作或是有多少的協助那麼或是有多少的這個部分是可以在合作之後又能做技術的轉移部長跟委員報告我覺得我只能夠說到這樣的程度就是說\n417645\t435072\t美國在政策面上面他希望我們民間中科院跟美國的這些相關具有關鍵技術的公司三方能夠合作打造一個去紅的供應鏈\n436132\t452019\t那這樣的一個政策經由這樣的確定之後呢他們鼓勵相關的公司來台灣那不管跟民間也好那當然就國防部來講特別是跟中科院也好有相當多的這樣子的一個\n454424\t471740\t這些共同研發也好,技術轉移也好但是我想詳細的這個部分,如果委員想要了解的話,我覺得我們可能只能私下再去跟委員做一些說明跟報告,可能不宜在這個地方做過多的說明\n472000\t488735\t好沒有問題喔因為這個畢竟也是我們重要的技術我會提出這一點當然最重要的就是川普現在他也在所謂拼他的這個整個國家整體經濟啦那麼當然我們事實上我們的軍售有高達219.5億美元現在是錢擺在那裡但是沒有\n495287\t511028\t交貨這是這樣嗎還是說這只是媒體報導上面所提出來的應該現在沒有這樣子的一個高達這樣的經驗我想那個鼓勵處長也已經說明過了詹惠寺要不要再說明一下好\n512430\t538627\t報告委員,我是站官司司長跟委員報告在過去幾年因為受到疫情影響的國際供應鏈目前已經逐漸在恢復正常所以委員也可以看到從去年開始我們主要的武器裝備已經陸續貨裝那卡托研究所報的這個219億的這個數字事實上跟我們目前實際掌握的是有相當大的落差大部分的案子都已經正常在走\n539087\t566152\t好所以說其實是因為受到疫情影響那麼在這個部分其實交貨的部分也沒有問題現在變成只有這可以講到什麼可以講的講就是說不能講的我們可以會後來說是我想應該是說大部分的都應該有看到比如說因為\n568967\t574435\t大家會過去講托斯2B我們就公開講托斯2B已經交運了\n577799\t598169\t現在F-16首駕已經在辦理交機,那我們希望當然在明年的年底之間還是能夠如期交互那其他的包括海馬斯跟M1A2我想進度都正常好,我想其實在有關於兩岸軍事合作上面啦,不論是武器面或者是訓練面台灣無庸置疑的絕對會是美國的優先夥伴\n599910\t625367\t一方面剛剛我前面問到的我們國防自主然後我們在技術上面能夠獲得更多的去紅工藝鏈之外我們自己有能力自主那麼另外一方面當然就是不要讓外界覺得說好像我們其實是有努力在爭取軍購但是有什麼地方卡關了那麼今天在部長或者是相關的說明當中我們也感受到就是其實國防部在這兩個部分都有持續在做努力好謝謝部長\n","txt":"謝謝主席主席有請我們顧部長有請顧部長 謝謝\n林委員好部長好部長我想今天其實修法真的是召委選在這個時候來討論陸海空軍事官服役條例的修正草案真的是正是時候啦我想面對這個共軍或者是共諜不斷的透過軍中來做滲透\n我在過去的質詢當中也曾經關心過包括這個退役的這些軍官們他們的退休金的問題追回的問題其實我也都一直在追吹拂會這個方面的部分那麼其實今天的修法剛好其實讓外界可以更關心那就是我認為中國或者是所謂的威權國家步步逼近的情況底下其實對於我們來說真的是一個蠻大的壓力喔那麼\n現在中國滲透我們的樣態非常多,一個最新的當然就是士林憲兵自拍投降影片,然後還有就是第一階的軍官遭到了這些所謂的用關鍵的技術來換取情資等等這些部分跟樣態,PTT怎麼回事?\n那麼過去呢其實我也主張就是要把他們的退休金收回那麼不只是今天的修法甚至於如果判國我要加重刑罰所以本席過去一直非常強調的就是軍人必須是國家的軍人不只是在軍中甚至於在他們的\n私底下的所作所為都非常的重要這個也是之前當我接到翠友講到說我們的空軍的副參謀長是不是在所謂的群組當中的發言不符合需求\n那麼我也看到了空軍跟國防部的相關的說法這個部分其實都證明了其實只要國軍不論是檯面上或私底下都非常的重要喔那麼部長我來請問你一下就是有關於在修法加重判國的部分其實還有另外一個我提出來的陸海空軍刑罰部分條例的修正草案\n其實不是只有他們的退休縫應該移除甚至於所謂的預備犯或預備投降的作為是不是你也考慮要把他修法進來因為就剛像我剛剛所講到的這些樣態比如說他拍投降的影片又或者是他因為\n本身有經濟上的困難所以說他去交換了這些所謂相關的情資那麼除了今天的修法之外接下來如果有預備投降的行為是不是也應該要補破網來修法\n跟委員報告我們現在在行政院審議當中的這個陸海公軍刑法24條他除了加一項就是就是對這個敵人為投降的這樣子效忠的這樣子的一個表示的時候就本身就會構成陸海違反陸海公軍刑法那另外投敵的部分我們加了陰謀犯跟預備犯的部分\n那現在已經在行政院審議當中好所以言下之意這個行政院在審議當中的話那就表示有沒有可能在這個會期可以加進來因為本席認為目前我們包括今天要討論的法案再到後續的它其實需要一個完備跟整備那麼這個部分您在期程上面您認為這個會期可能嗎還是說要到下個會期\n行政院我們當然是希望列入優先法案國安部的立場是希望列入優先法案所以行政院如果審議完畢之後我們當然希望儘快提出來好我們其實在這裡的話我相信本委員會的委員會希望能夠\n這個法案能夠緊速放進來討論另外第二個就是有關於無人機的部分我想在過去我們在委員會當中常常講到的是打造\n國際民主的供應鏈那麼對於台灣來講其實這個非常重要尤其是現在我們在跟美國進行所謂對等關稅的談判的過程當中美國非常在乎那就是台灣你選在哪一邊是中國的這一邊呢還是美國的這所謂民主陣營的這一邊那麼當然我們知道我們有許多的這個軍購的武器是透過美國這邊\n來提供我們但是如果我們能夠有自己的供應鏈那也是一個非常好的那麼打造無人機供應鏈的這個部分呢我們在落實國防自主跟打造去紅供應鏈的部分國防部現在如何來推動研擬強化國防自主呢在有關於技術轉移跟落實的部分其實本席有提了兩個修法而這兩個修法當中我們都希望是能夠把一定\n的這個所謂國防製組當中的武器以及技術轉移要能夠放進來那麼另外一個就是其實在台灣高手在民間過去我們都講說在台灣的AI的部分我們要找黃仁勳回來那蘇之鋒能夠加入那麼本席發現其實我們在\n我們自己國人所擔任負責人的這樣一個公司他跟美軍都有專案合作我不曉得部長知不知道這一間耐能晶片公司\n要讓專業的來是不是我不曉得中科院能夠講到什麼程度他跟我們也有一些合作的關係他承接我們的一些技術的轉移所以說基本上國際美軍所使用的這間公司我們也有把他找來合作\n如果是真的機密的部分可以不用回應因為其實本席會提出這一題是因為我發現高手真的在民間其實有很多是我們台灣之光創辦人他可能真的都是台灣人就像黃仁勳一樣只是\n他可能在國外成立公司那這樣子募資是比較容易的那麼其實國人常常都會講說我們台灣的研發能力是不是不夠那麼當我們要跟別人合作的時候人家是不是不願意那麼我比較想要了解的是以部長或者是我們\n中會院的角度怎麼來看就是當我們真的有民間高手的時候那我們有多少的合作或是有多少的協助那麼或是有多少的這個部分是可以在合作之後又能做技術的轉移部長跟委員報告我覺得我只能夠說到這樣的程度就是說\n美國在政策面上面他希望我們民間中科院跟美國的這些相關具有關鍵技術的公司三方能夠合作打造一個去紅的供應鏈\n那這樣的一個政策經由這樣的確定之後呢他們鼓勵相關的公司來台灣那不管跟民間也好那當然就國防部來講特別是跟中科院也好有相當多的這樣子的一個\n這些共同研發也好,技術轉移也好但是我想詳細的這個部分,如果委員想要了解的話,我覺得我們可能只能私下再去跟委員做一些說明跟報告,可能不宜在這個地方做過多的說明\n好沒有問題喔因為這個畢竟也是我們重要的技術我會提出這一點當然最重要的就是川普現在他也在所謂拼他的這個整個國家整體經濟啦那麼當然我們事實上我們的軍售有高達219.5億美元現在是錢擺在那裡但是沒有\n交貨這是這樣嗎還是說這只是媒體報導上面所提出來的應該現在沒有這樣子的一個高達這樣的經驗我想那個鼓勵處長也已經說明過了詹惠寺要不要再說明一下好\n報告委員,我是站官司司長跟委員報告在過去幾年因為受到疫情影響的國際供應鏈目前已經逐漸在恢復正常所以委員也可以看到從去年開始我們主要的武器裝備已經陸續貨裝那卡托研究所報的這個219億的這個數字事實上跟我們目前實際掌握的是有相當大的落差大部分的案子都已經正常在走\n好所以說其實是因為受到疫情影響那麼在這個部分其實交貨的部分也沒有問題現在變成只有這可以講到什麼可以講的講就是說不能講的我們可以會後來說是我想應該是說大部分的都應該有看到比如說因為\n大家會過去講托斯2B我們就公開講托斯2B已經交運了\n現在F-16首駕已經在辦理交機,那我們希望當然在明年的年底之間還是能夠如期交互那其他的包括海馬斯跟M1A2我想進度都正常好,我想其實在有關於兩岸軍事合作上面啦,不論是武器面或者是訓練面台灣無庸置疑的絕對會是美國的優先夥伴\n一方面剛剛我前面問到的我們國防自主然後我們在技術上面能夠獲得更多的去紅工藝鏈之外我們自己有能力自主那麼另外一方面當然就是不要讓外界覺得說好像我們其實是有努力在爭取軍購但是有什麼地方卡關了那麼今天在部長或者是相關的說明當中我們也感受到就是其實國防部在這兩個部分都有持續在做努力好謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.692 --> 00:02.178\n謝謝主席主席有請我們顧部長有請顧部長謝謝\n\n00:09.843 --> 00:27.556\n林委員好部長好部長我想今天其實修法真的是召委選在這個時候來討論陸海空軍事官服役條例的修正草案真的是正是時候啦我想面對這個共軍或者是共諜不斷的透過軍中來做滲透\n\n00:30.698 --> 00:55.903\n我在過去的質詢當中也曾經關心過包括這個退役的這些軍官們他們的退休金的問題追回的問題其實我也都一直在追吹拂會這個方面的部分那麼其實今天的修法剛好其實讓外界可以更關心那就是我認為中國或者是所謂的威權國家步步逼近的情況底下其實對於我們來說真的是一個蠻大的壓力喔那麼\n\n00:57.904 --> 01:14.924\n現在中國滲透我們的樣態非常多,一個最新的當然就是士林憲兵自拍投降影片,然後還有就是第一階的軍官遭到了這些所謂的用關鍵的技術來換取情資等等這些部分跟樣態,PTT怎麼回事?\n\n01:16.692 --> 01:36.648\n那麼過去呢其實我也主張就是要把他們的退休金收回那麼不只是今天的修法甚至於如果判國我要加重刑罰所以本席過去一直非常強調的就是軍人必須是國家的軍人不只是在軍中甚至於在他們的\n\n01:37.128 --> 01:41.512\n私底下的所作所為都非常的重要這個也是之前當我接到翠友講到說我們的空軍的副參謀長是不是在所謂的群組當中的發言不符合需求\n\n01:52.182 --> 02:14.163\n那麼我也看到了空軍跟國防部的相關的說法這個部分其實都證明了其實只要國軍不論是檯面上或私底下都非常的重要喔那麼部長我來請問你一下就是有關於在修法加重判國的部分其實還有另外一個我提出來的陸海空軍刑罰部分條例的修正草案\n\n02:14.864 --> 02:31.905\n其實不是只有他們的退休縫應該移除甚至於所謂的預備犯或預備投降的作為是不是你也考慮要把他修法進來因為就剛像我剛剛所講到的這些樣態比如說他拍投降的影片又或者是他因為\n\n02:33.206 --> 02:47.871\n本身有經濟上的困難所以說他去交換了這些所謂相關的情資那麼除了今天的修法之外接下來如果有預備投降的行為是不是也應該要補破網來修法\n\n02:48.992 --> 03:16.159\n跟委員報告我們現在在行政院審議當中的這個陸海公軍刑法24條他除了加一項就是就是對這個敵人為投降的這樣子效忠的這樣子的一個表示的時候就本身就會構成陸海違反陸海公軍刑法那另外投敵的部分我們加了陰謀犯跟預備犯的部分\n\n03:16.758 --> 03:36.406\n那現在已經在行政院審議當中好所以言下之意這個行政院在審議當中的話那就表示有沒有可能在這個會期可以加進來因為本席認為目前我們包括今天要討論的法案再到後續的它其實需要一個完備跟整備那麼這個部分您在期程上面您認為這個會期可能嗎還是說要到下個會期\n\n03:42.327 --> 03:57.756\n行政院我們當然是希望列入優先法案國安部的立場是希望列入優先法案所以行政院如果審議完畢之後我們當然希望儘快提出來好我們其實在這裡的話我相信本委員會的委員會希望能夠\n\n03:59.198 --> 04:10.599\n這個法案能夠緊速放進來討論另外第二個就是有關於無人機的部分我想在過去我們在委員會當中常常講到的是打造\n\n04:12.113 --> 04:28.783\n國際民主的供應鏈那麼對於台灣來講其實這個非常重要尤其是現在我們在跟美國進行所謂對等關稅的談判的過程當中美國非常在乎那就是台灣你選在哪一邊是中國的這一邊呢還是美國的這所謂民主陣營的這一邊那麼當然我們知道我們有許多的這個軍購的武器是透過美國這邊\n\n04:38.068 --> 05:02.962\n來提供我們但是如果我們能夠有自己的供應鏈那也是一個非常好的那麼打造無人機供應鏈的這個部分呢我們在落實國防自主跟打造去紅供應鏈的部分國防部現在如何來推動研擬強化國防自主呢在有關於技術轉移跟落實的部分其實本席有提了兩個修法而這兩個修法當中我們都希望是能夠把一定\n\n05:03.842 --> 05:23.318\n的這個所謂國防製組當中的武器以及技術轉移要能夠放進來那麼另外一個就是其實在台灣高手在民間過去我們都講說在台灣的AI的部分我們要找黃仁勳回來那蘇之鋒能夠加入那麼本席發現其實我們在\n\n05:24.139 --> 05:36.574\n我們自己國人所擔任負責人的這樣一個公司他跟美軍都有專案合作我不曉得部長知不知道這一間耐能晶片公司\n\n05:41.567 --> 05:58.797\n要讓專業的來是不是我不曉得中科院能夠講到什麼程度他跟我們也有一些合作的關係他承接我們的一些技術的轉移所以說基本上國際美軍所使用的這間公司我們也有把他找來合作\n\n05:59.797 --> 06:14.294\n如果是真的機密的部分可以不用回應因為其實本席會提出這一題是因為我發現高手真的在民間其實有很多是我們台灣之光創辦人他可能真的都是台灣人就像黃仁勳一樣只是\n\n06:16.516 --> 06:32.434\n他可能在國外成立公司那這樣子募資是比較容易的那麼其實國人常常都會講說我們台灣的研發能力是不是不夠那麼當我們要跟別人合作的時候人家是不是不願意那麼我比較想要了解的是以部長或者是我們\n\n06:33.175 --> 06:48.203\n中會院的角度怎麼來看就是當我們真的有民間高手的時候那我們有多少的合作或是有多少的協助那麼或是有多少的這個部分是可以在合作之後又能做技術的轉移部長跟委員報告我覺得我只能夠說到這樣的程度就是說\n\n06:57.645 --> 07:15.072\n美國在政策面上面他希望我們民間中科院跟美國的這些相關具有關鍵技術的公司三方能夠合作打造一個去紅的供應鏈\n\n07:16.132 --> 07:32.019\n那這樣的一個政策經由這樣的確定之後呢他們鼓勵相關的公司來台灣那不管跟民間也好那當然就國防部來講特別是跟中科院也好有相當多的這樣子的一個\n\n07:34.424 --> 07:51.740\n這些共同研發也好,技術轉移也好但是我想詳細的這個部分,如果委員想要了解的話,我覺得我們可能只能私下再去跟委員做一些說明跟報告,可能不宜在這個地方做過多的說明\n\n07:52.000 --> 08:08.735\n好沒有問題喔因為這個畢竟也是我們重要的技術我會提出這一點當然最重要的就是川普現在他也在所謂拼他的這個整個國家整體經濟啦那麼當然我們事實上我們的軍售有高達219.5億美元現在是錢擺在那裡但是沒有\n\n08:15.287 --> 08:31.028\n交貨這是這樣嗎還是說這只是媒體報導上面所提出來的應該現在沒有這樣子的一個高達這樣的經驗我想那個鼓勵處長也已經說明過了詹惠寺要不要再說明一下好\n\n08:32.430 --> 08:58.627\n報告委員,我是站官司司長跟委員報告在過去幾年因為受到疫情影響的國際供應鏈目前已經逐漸在恢復正常所以委員也可以看到從去年開始我們主要的武器裝備已經陸續貨裝那卡托研究所報的這個219億的這個數字事實上跟我們目前實際掌握的是有相當大的落差大部分的案子都已經正常在走\n\n08:59.087 --> 09:26.152\n好所以說其實是因為受到疫情影響那麼在這個部分其實交貨的部分也沒有問題現在變成只有這可以講到什麼可以講的講就是說不能講的我們可以會後來說是我想應該是說大部分的都應該有看到比如說因為\n\n09:28.967 --> 09:34.435\n大家會過去講托斯2B我們就公開講托斯2B已經交運了\n\n09:37.799 --> 09:58.169\n現在F-16首駕已經在辦理交機,那我們希望當然在明年的年底之間還是能夠如期交互那其他的包括海馬斯跟M1A2我想進度都正常好,我想其實在有關於兩岸軍事合作上面啦,不論是武器面或者是訓練面台灣無庸置疑的絕對會是美國的優先夥伴\n\n09:59.910 --> 10:25.367\n一方面剛剛我前面問到的我們國防自主然後我們在技術上面能夠獲得更多的去紅工藝鏈之外我們自己有能力自主那麼另外一方面當然就是不要讓外界覺得說好像我們其實是有努力在爭取軍購但是有什麼地方卡關了那麼今天在部長或者是相關的說明當中我們也感受到就是其實國防部在這兩個部分都有持續在做努力好謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.692,"end":2.178,"text":"謝謝主席主席有請我們顧部長有請顧部長 謝謝"},{"start":9.843,"end":27.556,"text":"林委員好部長好部長我想今天其實修法真的是召委選在這個時候來討論陸海空軍事官服役條例的修正草案真的是正是時候啦我想面對這個共軍或者是共諜不斷的透過軍中來做滲透"},{"start":30.698,"end":55.903,"text":"我在過去的質詢當中也曾經關心過包括這個退役的這些軍官們他們的退休金的問題追回的問題其實我也都一直在追吹拂會這個方面的部分那麼其實今天的修法剛好其實讓外界可以更關心那就是我認為中國或者是所謂的威權國家步步逼近的情況底下其實對於我們來說真的是一個蠻大的壓力喔那麼"},{"start":57.904,"end":74.924,"text":"現在中國滲透我們的樣態非常多,一個最新的當然就是士林憲兵自拍投降影片,然後還有就是第一階的軍官遭到了這些所謂的用關鍵的技術來換取情資等等這些部分跟樣態,PTT怎麼回事?"},{"start":76.692,"end":96.648,"text":"那麼過去呢其實我也主張就是要把他們的退休金收回那麼不只是今天的修法甚至於如果判國我要加重刑罰所以本席過去一直非常強調的就是軍人必須是國家的軍人不只是在軍中甚至於在他們的"},{"start":97.128,"end":101.512,"text":"私底下的所作所為都非常的重要這個也是之前當我接到翠友講到說我們的空軍的副參謀長是不是在所謂的群組當中的發言不符合需求"},{"start":112.182,"end":134.163,"text":"那麼我也看到了空軍跟國防部的相關的說法這個部分其實都證明了其實只要國軍不論是檯面上或私底下都非常的重要喔那麼部長我來請問你一下就是有關於在修法加重判國的部分其實還有另外一個我提出來的陸海空軍刑罰部分條例的修正草案"},{"start":134.864,"end":151.905,"text":"其實不是只有他們的退休縫應該移除甚至於所謂的預備犯或預備投降的作為是不是你也考慮要把他修法進來因為就剛像我剛剛所講到的這些樣態比如說他拍投降的影片又或者是他因為"},{"start":153.206,"end":167.871,"text":"本身有經濟上的困難所以說他去交換了這些所謂相關的情資那麼除了今天的修法之外接下來如果有預備投降的行為是不是也應該要補破網來修法"},{"start":168.992,"end":196.159,"text":"跟委員報告我們現在在行政院審議當中的這個陸海公軍刑法24條他除了加一項就是就是對這個敵人為投降的這樣子效忠的這樣子的一個表示的時候就本身就會構成陸海違反陸海公軍刑法那另外投敵的部分我們加了陰謀犯跟預備犯的部分"},{"start":196.758,"end":216.406,"text":"那現在已經在行政院審議當中好所以言下之意這個行政院在審議當中的話那就表示有沒有可能在這個會期可以加進來因為本席認為目前我們包括今天要討論的法案再到後續的它其實需要一個完備跟整備那麼這個部分您在期程上面您認為這個會期可能嗎還是說要到下個會期"},{"start":222.327,"end":237.756,"text":"行政院我們當然是希望列入優先法案國安部的立場是希望列入優先法案所以行政院如果審議完畢之後我們當然希望儘快提出來好我們其實在這裡的話我相信本委員會的委員會希望能夠"},{"start":239.198,"end":250.599,"text":"這個法案能夠緊速放進來討論另外第二個就是有關於無人機的部分我想在過去我們在委員會當中常常講到的是打造"},{"start":252.113,"end":268.783,"text":"國際民主的供應鏈那麼對於台灣來講其實這個非常重要尤其是現在我們在跟美國進行所謂對等關稅的談判的過程當中美國非常在乎那就是台灣你選在哪一邊是中國的這一邊呢還是美國的這所謂民主陣營的這一邊那麼當然我們知道我們有許多的這個軍購的武器是透過美國這邊"},{"start":278.068,"end":302.962,"text":"來提供我們但是如果我們能夠有自己的供應鏈那也是一個非常好的那麼打造無人機供應鏈的這個部分呢我們在落實國防自主跟打造去紅供應鏈的部分國防部現在如何來推動研擬強化國防自主呢在有關於技術轉移跟落實的部分其實本席有提了兩個修法而這兩個修法當中我們都希望是能夠把一定"},{"start":303.842,"end":323.318,"text":"的這個所謂國防製組當中的武器以及技術轉移要能夠放進來那麼另外一個就是其實在台灣高手在民間過去我們都講說在台灣的AI的部分我們要找黃仁勳回來那蘇之鋒能夠加入那麼本席發現其實我們在"},{"start":324.139,"end":336.574,"text":"我們自己國人所擔任負責人的這樣一個公司他跟美軍都有專案合作我不曉得部長知不知道這一間耐能晶片公司"},{"start":341.567,"end":358.797,"text":"要讓專業的來是不是我不曉得中科院能夠講到什麼程度他跟我們也有一些合作的關係他承接我們的一些技術的轉移所以說基本上國際美軍所使用的這間公司我們也有把他找來合作"},{"start":359.797,"end":374.294,"text":"如果是真的機密的部分可以不用回應因為其實本席會提出這一題是因為我發現高手真的在民間其實有很多是我們台灣之光創辦人他可能真的都是台灣人就像黃仁勳一樣只是"},{"start":376.516,"end":392.434,"text":"他可能在國外成立公司那這樣子募資是比較容易的那麼其實國人常常都會講說我們台灣的研發能力是不是不夠那麼當我們要跟別人合作的時候人家是不是不願意那麼我比較想要了解的是以部長或者是我們"},{"start":393.175,"end":408.203,"text":"中會院的角度怎麼來看就是當我們真的有民間高手的時候那我們有多少的合作或是有多少的協助那麼或是有多少的這個部分是可以在合作之後又能做技術的轉移部長跟委員報告我覺得我只能夠說到這樣的程度就是說"},{"start":417.645,"end":435.072,"text":"美國在政策面上面他希望我們民間中科院跟美國的這些相關具有關鍵技術的公司三方能夠合作打造一個去紅的供應鏈"},{"start":436.132,"end":452.019,"text":"那這樣的一個政策經由這樣的確定之後呢他們鼓勵相關的公司來台灣那不管跟民間也好那當然就國防部來講特別是跟中科院也好有相當多的這樣子的一個"},{"start":454.424,"end":471.74,"text":"這些共同研發也好,技術轉移也好但是我想詳細的這個部分,如果委員想要了解的話,我覺得我們可能只能私下再去跟委員做一些說明跟報告,可能不宜在這個地方做過多的說明"},{"start":472,"end":488.735,"text":"好沒有問題喔因為這個畢竟也是我們重要的技術我會提出這一點當然最重要的就是川普現在他也在所謂拼他的這個整個國家整體經濟啦那麼當然我們事實上我們的軍售有高達219.5億美元現在是錢擺在那裡但是沒有"},{"start":495.287,"end":511.028,"text":"交貨這是這樣嗎還是說這只是媒體報導上面所提出來的應該現在沒有這樣子的一個高達這樣的經驗我想那個鼓勵處長也已經說明過了詹惠寺要不要再說明一下好"},{"start":512.43,"end":538.627,"text":"報告委員,我是站官司司長跟委員報告在過去幾年因為受到疫情影響的國際供應鏈目前已經逐漸在恢復正常所以委員也可以看到從去年開始我們主要的武器裝備已經陸續貨裝那卡托研究所報的這個219億的這個數字事實上跟我們目前實際掌握的是有相當大的落差大部分的案子都已經正常在走"},{"start":539.087,"end":566.152,"text":"好所以說其實是因為受到疫情影響那麼在這個部分其實交貨的部分也沒有問題現在變成只有這可以講到什麼可以講的講就是說不能講的我們可以會後來說是我想應該是說大部分的都應該有看到比如說因為"},{"start":568.967,"end":574.435,"text":"大家會過去講托斯2B我們就公開講托斯2B已經交運了"},{"start":577.799,"end":598.169,"text":"現在F-16首駕已經在辦理交機,那我們希望當然在明年的年底之間還是能夠如期交互那其他的包括海馬斯跟M1A2我想進度都正常好,我想其實在有關於兩岸軍事合作上面啦,不論是武器面或者是訓練面台灣無庸置疑的絕對會是美國的優先夥伴"},{"start":599.91,"end":625.367,"text":"一方面剛剛我前面問到的我們國防自主然後我們在技術上面能夠獲得更多的去紅工藝鏈之外我們自己有能力自主那麼另外一方面當然就是不要讓外界覺得說好像我們其實是有努力在爭取軍購但是有什麼地方卡關了那麼今天在部長或者是相關的說明當中我們也感受到就是其實國防部在這兩個部分都有持續在做努力好謝謝部長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":281,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（9時52分）謝謝主席。有請顧部長。"],["主席：有請顧部長，謝謝。"],["顧部長立雄：林委員好。"],["林委員楚茵：部長好。召委選在今天來討論陸海空軍軍官士官服役條例修正草案，真的正是時候。面對共軍或者是共諜不斷地透過軍中來滲透，我在過去的質詢當中也曾經關心過，包括這些退役軍官們退休金追回的問題，其實我也都一直在跟退輔會追這個方面，今天的修法剛好讓外界可以更關心。我認為在中國或者是所謂的威權國家步步逼近的情況底下，對於我們來說，真的是一個蠻大的壓力。現在中國滲透我們的樣態非常多，一個最新的當然就是士林憲兵自拍投降影片，還有低階的軍官遭到用關鍵技術換取情資等樣態。過去我主張要把他們的退休金收回，不只是今天的修法，甚至於如果叛國也要加重刑罰。","本席過去一直非常強調，軍人必須是國家的軍人，不只是在軍中，甚至於在他們私底下的所作所為都非常重要。之前當我接到脆友問到，空軍副參謀長在群組當中的發言是不是不符合需求，我看到了空軍跟國防部相關的說法，這個部分其實都證明了，國軍不論是檯面上或私底下都非常重要。部長，我來請問你一下，關於修法加重叛國的部分，還有另外一個我提出來的陸海空軍刑法部分條文修正草案，不是只有他們的退休俸應該移除，甚至於所謂的預備犯或預備投降的作為，是不是也要考慮把它納入修法？就像我剛剛所講到的這些樣態，比如他拍投降影片，又或者是因為他本身有經濟上的困難，所以交換了這些相關的情資。除了今天的修法之外，接下來如果有預備投降的行為，是不是也應該要補破網、來修法？"],["顧部長立雄：現在在行政院審議當中的陸海空軍刑法第二十四條除了加一項，對敵人為投降、效忠表示的時候，本身就會構成違反陸海空軍刑法。另外，投敵的部分，我們加了陰謀犯跟預備犯，現在已經在行政院審議當中。"],["林委員楚茵：言下之意，行政院在審議當中就表示，有沒有可能在這個會期可以加進來？本席認為目前包括今天要討論的法案再到後續的，其實需要完備跟整備，這個部分在期程上面，您認為這個會期可能嗎？還是要到下個會期？"],["顧部長立雄：我們當然希望行政院列入優先法案，國防部的立場是希望列入優先法案。行政院如果審議完畢之後，我們當然希望儘快提出來。"],["林委員楚茵：我相信本委員會的委員會希望這個法案能夠儘速送進來討論。另外第二個就是有關於無人機的部分，過去我們在委員會常常講到的是打造國際民主的供應鏈，對於臺灣來講，其實這個非常重要，尤其是現在我們跟美國進行所謂對等關稅談判的過程當中，美國非常在乎的就是臺灣你選在哪一邊？是中國這一邊呢？還是美國所謂民主陣營這一邊？當然，我們知道有許多軍購的武器是透過美國提供我們，但是如果我們能夠有自己的供應鏈也是非常好的。至於打造無人機供應鏈，我們在落實國防自主跟打造去紅供應鏈的部分，國防部現在如何來推動、研擬強化國防自主呢？有關於技術轉移跟落實的部分，其實本席有提了兩個修法，而這兩個修法當中，我們都希望能把一定的國防自主武器以及技術轉移要放進來。另外，在臺灣其實高手在民間，過去我們都講說臺灣AI的部分要找黃仁勳回來，蘇姿丰也能夠加入，本席發現，其實我們國人自己所擔任負責人的公司跟美軍都有專案合作，我不曉得部長知不知道這一間耐能晶片公司？"],["顧部長立雄：這個部分請中科院。"],["林委員楚茵：要讓專業的來，是不是？"],["顧部長立雄：因為跟中科院……我不曉得中科院能夠講到什麼程度。"],["李院長世強：它跟我們也有一些合作的關係，它承接我們一些技術的轉移。"],["林委員楚茵：所以基本上國際、美軍所使用的這一間公司，我們也有把它找來合作，如果真的是機密的部分可以不用回應，本席會提出這一題是因為我發現高手真的在民間，有很多是我們的臺灣之光，創辦人可能真的都是臺灣人，就像黃仁勳一樣，只是他可能在國外成立公司，募資是比較容易的。其實國人常常都會講說我們臺灣的研發能力是不是不夠？當我們要跟別人合作的時候，人家是不是不願意？我比較想要了解的是，以部長或者是中科院的角度怎麼來看，當我們真的有民間高手的時候，能有多少合作或有多少協助，或是有多少的部分可以在合作之後又能做技術的轉移？部長。"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，我只能夠說到這樣的程度，美國在政策面上，它希望我們民間、中科院跟美國這些相關具有關鍵技術的公司三方能夠合作，打造一個去紅供應鏈，這樣一個政策經由確定之後，他們鼓勵相關公司來臺灣，不管跟民間也好，特別是跟中科院也好，當然就國防部來講，有相當多這樣子比如共同研發也好、技術轉移也好的部分，但是詳細的部分如果委員也想要了解的話，我們只能私下再跟委員做一些說明跟報告，可能不宜在這個地方做過多的說明。"],["林委員楚茵：好，沒有問題，因為畢竟這也是我們重要的技術，我會提出這一點，當然最重要的就是川普現在也在拼他整個國家的整體經濟，當然事實上，我們的軍售有高達219.5億美元現在是錢擺在那裡，但沒有交貨，是這樣嗎？還是這只是媒體報導上面所提出來的？"],["顧部長立雄：應該現在沒有高達這樣的金額，我想谷立言處長也已經說明過了，戰規司要不要再說明一下？"],["林委員楚茵：好。"],["黃司長文啓：報告委員，我是戰規司司長，跟委員報告，在過去幾年因為受到疫情影響的國際供應鏈目前已經逐漸在恢復正常，所以委員也可以看到，從去年開始我們主要的武器裝備已經陸續貨裝，卡托研究所報的219億這個數字，事實上跟我們目前實際掌握的有相當大的落差，大部分的案子都已經正常在走。"],["林委員楚茵：好，所以其實是因為受到疫情影響，在這個部分，其實交貨也沒有問題？"],["顧部長立雄：現在變成只有……這可以講到什麼……"],["林委員楚茵：可以講的講！不能講的我們可以會後來說。"],["顧部長立雄：是，大部分的都應該有看到，比如大家過去講到拖式2B，我們就公開講拖式2B已經交運了，現在F16首架已經在辦理交機，我們希望當然在明年年底之前還是能夠如期交付，其他的包括海馬斯跟M1A2，我想進度都正常。"],["林委員楚茵：好，其實有關於兩岸軍事合作上面，不論是武器面或者是訓練面，臺灣毋庸置疑絕對會是美國的優先夥伴，一方面剛剛前面問到我們的國防自主，然後我們在技術上能夠獲得更多的去紅供應鏈之外，我們自己有能力自主，另外一方面當然就是不要讓外界覺得我們好像很努力在爭取軍購，但是有什麼地方卡關了，今天在部長相關的說明當中，我們也感受到其實國防部在這兩個部分都有持續在做努力。"],["顧部長立雄：好，是。"],["林委員楚茵：謝謝部長。"],["顧部長立雄：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝楚茵委員、謝謝部長。","接下來有請王定宇委員上台質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":272,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-8","speakers":["沈伯洋","陳冠廷","羅美玲","陳俊宇","林楚茵","王定宇","馬文君","徐巧芯","吳宗憲","邱志偉","林憶君","黃仁"],"page_start":235,"meetingDate":["2025-04-16"],"gazette_id":"1143702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143702_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查本院委員沈伯洋等17人擬具「陸海空軍軍官士官服役條例部分條文修正草案」案（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"1143702_00005"}}}