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\"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"估\", \"start\": 667.315, \"end\": 667.895, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"帶\"}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 667.895, \"end\": 668.356, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"估\", \"start\": 668.356, \"end\": 668.536, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 668.536, \"end\": 668.756, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"估\", \"start\": 668.756, \"end\": 668.916, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"太\", \"start\": 668.916, \"end\": 669.176, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 669.176, \"end\": 669.436, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 669.436, \"end\": 669.596, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 669.596, \"end\": 670.657, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 670.657, \"end\": 670.797, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 670.797, \"end\": 670.937, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 670.937, \"end\": 671.438, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 671.438, \"end\": 671.858, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 671.858, \"end\": 672.018, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 672.018, \"end\": 672.358, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"浪\", \"start\": 672.358, \"end\": 672.719, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 672.719, \"end\": 672.819, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 672.819, \"end\": 672.959, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 672.959, \"end\": 673.099, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 673.099, \"end\": 673.119, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,349 --> 00:00:03,573\n主席,有請谷主委。好,請出席。主委好。你好。\n\n2\n00:00:12,139 --> 00:00:29,851\n現在一個立法院小學堂的考試請秀第一張投影片我們去年在審查今年總預算的時候我們在內政委員會內政委員會的提案表\n\n3\n00:00:36,231 --> 00:00:39,754\n主委他會等於是最後的決議嗎所以我在這裡凍結該項預算4億元最後改成怎麼樣\n\n4\n00:00:51,002 --> 00:00:57,127\n現在的改組決議在報告中作出對立報告是作出對立,好那我想這個應該不是客委會刻意流出去給很多的網軍策略,不是嗎?沒有,沒有,沒有,現在應該會有更快的諮詢所以我今天這個\n\n5\n00:01:13,741 --> 00:01:23,204\n立法院小學堂就是希望讓很多的年輕人關心立法院非常好但是要了解真相不要拿提案表\n\n6\n00:01:28,706 --> 00:01:46,041\n就拿來說這個是決議好不好我先跟她說我先問她我先問她等一下要不要過去決議以前要出席她跟妳說沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有\n\n7\n00:01:49,851 --> 00:02:16,806\n今年二月開始他拿的所以這早就改了啦可能因為他浪費我時間去嘛不是還蠻改的部分啦他剛才怎麼說啦你用不安定喔我在找他沒有啦我用不安定在推敲啦因為那時間有落差嘛那拿走的就是原始版啦那沒關係嘛你現在澄清了嘛提案不等於決議嘛對而且最後是改組決議只要報告對不對\n\n8\n00:02:18,507 --> 00:02:23,512\n結果結論是這樣結論是這樣,但是前前後後那先不美啊那再來講有意義嗎?譬如說今年2月、3月、4月到現在講凍結事宜有意義嗎?還是有意義,因為這是一個過程不是過程,它是一直講現在被凍結事宜喔,然後之後是3.6月後啊\n\n9\n00:02:45,131 --> 00:02:51,176\n我現在在講這個案你浪費我很多時間我在講這個案你不要再去講到業務費我在講這個案有凍結事宜嗎最後的結論目前時候提報告提報告沒有凍結那你為什麼不講你就講一下沒有凍結我有凍結事宜嗎你現在再答覆我一次\n\n10\n00:03:09,409 --> 00:03:12,672\n主決意就沒有動結的那個,你真的搞不懂,連你都搞不懂經同意後,使得動之\n\n11\n00:03:33,407 --> 00:03:42,151\n沒有啦凍結預算4億就劃掉啦所以沒有凍結摸凍結摸凍結你看你知道主委一個主委對這個提案都你看用了我三分多鐘了好接下來接下來我想\n\n12\n00:03:54,978 --> 00:04:04,106\n我們客語的傳承還有客家文化的傳承剛剛我們張宏祿召委講得非常好他有說錢要花在刀口上\n\n13\n00:04:05,910 --> 00:04:27,151\n但是我們也非常肯定客核會長期以來做了很多客語推廣的努力包含網路有多元課程包含客語的認證辦了很多翻譯世界名著還有培訓了很多公開宣講員這個都做了很多沒錯但是我們看到的是這個數量就是\n\n14\n00:04:29,973 --> 00:04:56,432\n這個成果用這樣子的量化可是輕忽了它的品質跟我們的最終的目的是要推廣客語所以客語它是一種語言就跟我們不管學台語還是學英語一樣那需要的是環境我想主委你認同吧你只要講認同不認同就是說語言它需要的是環境而且是盡量要融入在生活中您認同嗎\n\n15\n00:04:56,872 --> 00:05:19,427\n我的念頭,我念頭,但是要反經,那不是一間人建立下來的對,我知道,當然當然,我沒有說,我沒有再往下講,還沒往下講啦所以呢,我們在這邊希望建議就是說,你量化的指標,是不是可以轉化成客語在日常生活中的使用\n\n16\n00:05:20,989 --> 00:05:33,522\n就是說你們做了那麼多但是是不是接下來包括今年的預算開始使用的時候你要讓課宇怎麼樣可以真正在每個區塊每個區塊我們在每個區塊每個區塊你慢慢的從一個區塊譬如說南部\n\n17\n00:05:41,690 --> 00:05:52,454\n南部他比較少客家莊但是有客家莊的地方客家人的地方你讓他一個區塊把讓這個客語可以慢慢的成為生活然後擴散就像我會哼人但是呢喉嚨會我會哼的詩啦但東東你哼什麼你會哼什麼啦\n\n18\n00:06:00,837 --> 00:06:18,495\n所以我們應該讓這個克魚的這種生活上的應用更多還有包含我們這個這麼多量化的指標大家你在報告中也一直寫然後每年我們也花了很多的預算那我們有沒有促進跨世代的自然傳承\n\n19\n00:06:19,116 --> 00:06:43,335\n也就是說要一代一代傳下去那還有就是說我們課語考試認證通過了那是否有代表他在市場在家庭在鄰里之間呢大家可以很自然的用課語來溝通甚至讓更多的人他可能不一定很會講但他已經都聽得懂課語或是可以聽得懂一半\n\n20\n00:06:44,596 --> 00:07:07,274\n或者是他講得出幾句客語其實就像我對台語我都聽得懂然後我可以講部分我沒辦法講得很認真對台語但是我聽得懂我可以跟人家溝通那我要講的話我就講幾句我還可以叫我全部講我又沒辦法所以我們的客語可不可以朝向這方面我們來推廣的好一點\n\n21\n00:07:08,344 --> 00:07:16,967\n當然圖羅維研所說的沒有錯,其實我們說的額度要罰錢,我妹妹預算不拿所以他又一點錢又散了你一直要強調這個經費,那我覺得我們現在在談預算很多人談預算的人他沒有關心你真正課宇的傳承\n\n22\n00:07:34,201 --> 00:07:58,478\n所以主委你不要落入那個我們客家人我們都是客家人其實所有的政治人物包括所有的這些網軍側翼他要來喊喊喊喊到最後我們自己客家人要知道我的客語是不是真的在地方有推廣是不是在台灣客語跟客家文化是保存下來的怎麼說啊怎麼說啊同山勾腿灣啦齁沒搬兩千啦什麼三萬\n\n23\n00:08:03,241 --> 00:08:29,075\n岡山岡天啦所以因為他剛剛的進行時期三萬打平啦沒辦兩千啦走得一直傳承下來所以客委會的預算客委會預算每年也增加所以不要老是用這種意識形態好不好我現在講不然你生命有什麼用不然你生命有什麼用不然你生命有什麼用不然你生命有什麼用不然你生命有什麼用不然你生命有什麼用不然你生命有什麼用\n\n24\n00:08:31,796 --> 00:08:40,580\n我們現在課餘我們花了那麼多錢我們要知道陸續要喊不勞拜永遠不夠啦不勞拜因為你那個負責人過困難你會困難你們在報告裡面你要發客家幣客家幣你要發一千塊發四十萬人等於花四億\n\n25\n00:09:02,250 --> 00:09:19,864\n人家文化幣文化幣是給年輕人的成人禮客家幣發給18到20歲的年輕人你這是什麼理由我沒有反對我應該先講我支持客家預算但是我更支持是我們所有的預算\n\n26\n00:09:20,845 --> 00:09:40,200\n假設別人有更好的成果比你用少的錢或用跟你一樣的錢他有更好的成果你不要一直喊我錢要多然後都不去看成果我們要強調的是你成果要出來所以你花這個4億的客家幣你先說這個是什麼禮人家文化幣是成年禮你是什麼禮\n\n27\n00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:40,920\n通過特意認證的你不要給他抽籤\n\n28\n00:10:03,104 --> 00:10:27,840\n通過客語認證你就每個人發他一千塊我建議這第一個第二個預計發放四十萬客家幣你卻只有預估三十二萬人前往客庄人家發一千塊一個人就會帶一家人或帶兩三個朋友前往你發了四十萬客家幣一人一千四十萬人結果只預計三十二人次前往\n\n29\n00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:30,781\n我們要看有限的錢我們怎麼做得最好但是我全力支持客家預算好不好你現在你就說嘛我給你4億發客家幣\n\n30\n00:10:56,087 --> 00:11:13,119\n你既然40萬人,你只預計32萬人前往,這不太誇張了報告裡寫的啊,本案估計帶動你預估就估太少了啦,我知道,你前面浪費了我很多時間,謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n349\t3573\t主席,有請谷主委。好,請出席。主委好。你好。\n12139\t29851\t現在一個立法院小學堂的考試請秀第一張投影片我們去年在審查今年總預算的時候我們在內政委員會內政委員會的提案表\n36231\t39754\t主委他會等於是最後的決議嗎所以我在這裡凍結該項預算4億元最後改成怎麼樣\n51002\t57127\t現在的改組決議在報告中作出對立報告是作出對立,好那我想這個應該不是客委會刻意流出去給很多的網軍策略,不是嗎?沒有,沒有,沒有,現在應該會有更快的諮詢所以我今天這個\n73741\t83204\t立法院小學堂就是希望讓很多的年輕人關心立法院非常好但是要了解真相不要拿提案表\n88706\t106041\t就拿來說這個是決議好不好我先跟她說我先問她我先問她等一下要不要過去決議以前要出席 她跟妳說沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有\n109851\t136806\t今年二月開始他拿的所以這早就改了啦可能因為他浪費我時間去嘛不是 還蠻改的部分啦他剛才怎麼說啦你用不安定喔 我在找他沒有啦我用不安定在推敲啦因為那時間有落差嘛那拿走的就是原始版啦那沒關係嘛 你現在澄清了嘛提案不等於決議嘛對 而且最後是改組決議只要報告 對不對\n138507\t143512\t結果結論是這樣結論是這樣,但是前前後後那先不美啊那再來講有意義嗎?譬如說今年2月、3月、4月到現在講凍結事宜有意義嗎?還是有意義,因為這是一個過程不是過程,它是一直講現在被凍結事宜喔,然後之後是3.6月後啊\n165131\t171176\t我現在在講這個案你浪費我很多時間我在講這個案你不要再去講到業務費我在講這個案有凍結事宜嗎最後的結論目前時候提報告提報告沒有凍結那你為什麼不講你就講一下沒有凍結我有凍結事宜嗎你現在再答覆我一次\n189409\t192672\t主決意就沒有動結的那個,你真的搞不懂,連你都搞不懂經同意後,使得動之\n213407\t222151\t沒有啦 凍結預算4億就劃掉啦所以沒有凍結 摸凍結 摸凍結你看 你知道主委 一個主委對這個提案都 你看 用了我三分多鐘了好 接下來 接下來 我想\n234978\t244106\t我們客語的傳承還有客家文化的傳承剛剛我們張宏祿召委講得非常好他有說錢要花在刀口上\n245910\t267151\t但是我們也非常肯定客核會長期以來做了很多客語推廣的努力包含網路有多元課程包含客語的認證辦了很多翻譯世界名著還有培訓了很多公開宣講員這個都做了很多沒錯但是我們看到的是這個數量就是\n269973\t296432\t這個成果用這樣子的量化可是輕忽了它的品質跟我們的最終的目的是要推廣客語所以客語它是一種語言就跟我們不管學台語還是學英語一樣那需要的是環境我想主委你認同吧你只要講認同不認同就是說語言它需要的是環境而且是盡量要融入在生活中您認同嗎\n296872\t319427\t我的念頭,我念頭,但是要反經,那不是一間人建立下來的對,我知道,當然當然,我沒有說,我沒有再往下講,還沒往下講啦所以呢,我們在這邊希望建議就是說,你量化的指標,是不是可以轉化成客語在日常生活中的使用\n320989\t333522\t就是說你們做了那麼多但是是不是接下來包括今年的預算開始使用的時候你要讓課宇怎麼樣可以真正在每個區塊每個區塊我們在每個區塊每個區塊你慢慢的從一個區塊譬如說南部\n341690\t352454\t南部他比較少客家莊但是有客家莊的地方客家人的地方你讓他一個區塊把讓這個客語可以慢慢的成為生活然後擴散就像我會哼人但是呢喉嚨會我會哼的詩啦但東東你哼什麼你會哼什麼啦\n360837\t378495\t所以我們應該讓這個克魚的這種生活上的應用更多還有包含我們這個這麼多量化的指標大家你在報告中也一直寫然後每年我們也花了很多的預算那我們有沒有促進跨世代的自然傳承\n379116\t403335\t也就是說要一代一代傳下去那還有就是說我們課語考試認證通過了那是否有代表他在市場在家庭在鄰里之間呢大家可以很自然的用課語來溝通甚至讓更多的人他可能不一定很會講但他已經都聽得懂課語或是可以聽得懂一半\n404596\t427274\t或者是他講得出幾句客語其實就像我對台語我都聽得懂然後我可以講部分我沒辦法講得很認真對台語但是我聽得懂我可以跟人家溝通那我要講的話我就講幾句我還可以叫我全部講我又沒辦法所以我們的客語可不可以朝向這方面我們來推廣的好一點\n428344\t436967\t當然圖羅維研所說的沒有錯,其實我們說的額度要罰錢,我妹妹預算不拿所以他又一點錢又散了你一直要強調這個經費,那我覺得我們現在在談預算很多人談預算的人他沒有關心你真正課宇的傳承\n454201\t478478\t所以主委你不要落入那個我們客家人我們都是客家人其實所有的政治人物包括所有的這些網軍側翼他要來喊喊喊喊到最後我們自己客家人要知道我的客語是不是真的在地方有推廣是不是在台灣客語跟客家文化是保存下來的怎麼說啊怎麼說啊 同山勾腿灣啦齁沒搬兩千啦什麼三萬\n483241\t509075\t岡山岡天啦所以因為他剛剛的進行時期三萬打平啦沒辦兩千啦走得一直傳承下來所以客委會的預算客委會預算每年也增加所以不要老是用這種意識形態好不好我現在講不然你生命有什麼用不然你生命有什麼用不然你生命有什麼用不然你生命有什麼用不然你生命有什麼用不然你生命有什麼用不然你生命有什麼用\n511796\t520580\t我們現在課餘 我們花了那麼多錢我們要知道 陸續要喊不勞拜 永遠不夠啦不勞拜 因為你那個負責人 過困難 你會困難你們在報告裡面 你要發客家幣客家幣 你要發一千塊 發四十萬人 等於花四億\n542250\t559864\t人家文化幣文化幣是給年輕人的成人禮客家幣發給18到20歲的年輕人你這是什麼理由我沒有反對我應該先講我支持客家預算但是我更支持是我們所有的預算\n560845\t580200\t假設別人有更好的成果比你用少的錢或用跟你一樣的錢他有更好的成果你不要一直喊我錢要多然後都不去看成果我們要強調的是你成果要出來所以你花這個4億的客家幣你先說這個是什麼禮人家文化幣是成年禮你是什麼禮\n580520\t580920\t通過特意認證的你不要給他抽籤\n603104\t627840\t通過客語認證你就每個人發他一千塊我建議這第一個第二個預計發放四十萬客家幣你卻只有預估三十二萬人前往客庄人家發一千塊一個人就會帶一家人或帶兩三個朋友前往你發了四十萬客家幣一人一千四十萬人結果只預計三十二人次前往\n628320\t630781\t我們要看有限的錢我們怎麼做得最好但是我全力支持客家預算好不好你現在你就說嘛我給你4億發客家幣\n656087\t673119\t你既然40萬人,你只預計32萬人前往,這不太誇張了報告裡寫的啊,本案估計帶動你預估就估太少了啦,我知道,你前面浪費了我很多時間,謝謝\n","txt":"主席,有請谷主委。好,請出席。主委好。你好。\n現在一個立法院小學堂的考試請秀第一張投影片我們去年在審查今年總預算的時候我們在內政委員會內政委員會的提案表\n主委他會等於是最後的決議嗎所以我在這裡凍結該項預算4億元最後改成怎麼樣\n現在的改組決議在報告中作出對立報告是作出對立,好那我想這個應該不是客委會刻意流出去給很多的網軍策略,不是嗎?沒有,沒有,沒有,現在應該會有更快的諮詢所以我今天這個\n立法院小學堂就是希望讓很多的年輕人關心立法院非常好但是要了解真相不要拿提案表\n就拿來說這個是決議好不好我先跟她說我先問她我先問她等一下要不要過去決議以前要出席 她跟妳說沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有\n今年二月開始他拿的所以這早就改了啦可能因為他浪費我時間去嘛不是 還蠻改的部分啦他剛才怎麼說啦你用不安定喔 我在找他沒有啦我用不安定在推敲啦因為那時間有落差嘛那拿走的就是原始版啦那沒關係嘛 你現在澄清了嘛提案不等於決議嘛對 而且最後是改組決議只要報告 對不對\n結果結論是這樣結論是這樣,但是前前後後那先不美啊那再來講有意義嗎?譬如說今年2月、3月、4月到現在講凍結事宜有意義嗎?還是有意義,因為這是一個過程不是過程,它是一直講現在被凍結事宜喔,然後之後是3.6月後啊\n我現在在講這個案你浪費我很多時間我在講這個案你不要再去講到業務費我在講這個案有凍結事宜嗎最後的結論目前時候提報告提報告沒有凍結那你為什麼不講你就講一下沒有凍結我有凍結事宜嗎你現在再答覆我一次\n主決意就沒有動結的那個,你真的搞不懂,連你都搞不懂經同意後,使得動之\n沒有啦 凍結預算4億就劃掉啦所以沒有凍結 摸凍結 摸凍結你看 你知道主委 一個主委對這個提案都 你看 用了我三分多鐘了好 接下來 接下來 我想\n我們客語的傳承還有客家文化的傳承剛剛我們張宏祿召委講得非常好他有說錢要花在刀口上\n但是我們也非常肯定客核會長期以來做了很多客語推廣的努力包含網路有多元課程包含客語的認證辦了很多翻譯世界名著還有培訓了很多公開宣講員這個都做了很多沒錯但是我們看到的是這個數量就是\n這個成果用這樣子的量化可是輕忽了它的品質跟我們的最終的目的是要推廣客語所以客語它是一種語言就跟我們不管學台語還是學英語一樣那需要的是環境我想主委你認同吧你只要講認同不認同就是說語言它需要的是環境而且是盡量要融入在生活中您認同嗎\n我的念頭,我念頭,但是要反經,那不是一間人建立下來的對,我知道,當然當然,我沒有說,我沒有再往下講,還沒往下講啦所以呢,我們在這邊希望建議就是說,你量化的指標,是不是可以轉化成客語在日常生活中的使用\n就是說你們做了那麼多但是是不是接下來包括今年的預算開始使用的時候你要讓課宇怎麼樣可以真正在每個區塊每個區塊我們在每個區塊每個區塊你慢慢的從一個區塊譬如說南部\n南部他比較少客家莊但是有客家莊的地方客家人的地方你讓他一個區塊把讓這個客語可以慢慢的成為生活然後擴散就像我會哼人但是呢喉嚨會我會哼的詩啦但東東你哼什麼你會哼什麼啦\n所以我們應該讓這個克魚的這種生活上的應用更多還有包含我們這個這麼多量化的指標大家你在報告中也一直寫然後每年我們也花了很多的預算那我們有沒有促進跨世代的自然傳承\n也就是說要一代一代傳下去那還有就是說我們課語考試認證通過了那是否有代表他在市場在家庭在鄰里之間呢大家可以很自然的用課語來溝通甚至讓更多的人他可能不一定很會講但他已經都聽得懂課語或是可以聽得懂一半\n或者是他講得出幾句客語其實就像我對台語我都聽得懂然後我可以講部分我沒辦法講得很認真對台語但是我聽得懂我可以跟人家溝通那我要講的話我就講幾句我還可以叫我全部講我又沒辦法所以我們的客語可不可以朝向這方面我們來推廣的好一點\n當然圖羅維研所說的沒有錯,其實我們說的額度要罰錢,我妹妹預算不拿所以他又一點錢又散了你一直要強調這個經費,那我覺得我們現在在談預算很多人談預算的人他沒有關心你真正課宇的傳承\n所以主委你不要落入那個我們客家人我們都是客家人其實所有的政治人物包括所有的這些網軍側翼他要來喊喊喊喊到最後我們自己客家人要知道我的客語是不是真的在地方有推廣是不是在台灣客語跟客家文化是保存下來的怎麼說啊怎麼說啊 同山勾腿灣啦齁沒搬兩千啦什麼三萬\n岡山岡天啦所以因為他剛剛的進行時期三萬打平啦沒辦兩千啦走得一直傳承下來所以客委會的預算客委會預算每年也增加所以不要老是用這種意識形態好不好我現在講不然你生命有什麼用不然你生命有什麼用不然你生命有什麼用不然你生命有什麼用不然你生命有什麼用不然你生命有什麼用不然你生命有什麼用\n我們現在課餘 我們花了那麼多錢我們要知道 陸續要喊不勞拜 永遠不夠啦不勞拜 因為你那個負責人 過困難 你會困難你們在報告裡面 你要發客家幣客家幣 你要發一千塊 發四十萬人 等於花四億\n人家文化幣文化幣是給年輕人的成人禮客家幣發給18到20歲的年輕人你這是什麼理由我沒有反對我應該先講我支持客家預算但是我更支持是我們所有的預算\n假設別人有更好的成果比你用少的錢或用跟你一樣的錢他有更好的成果你不要一直喊我錢要多然後都不去看成果我們要強調的是你成果要出來所以你花這個4億的客家幣你先說這個是什麼禮人家文化幣是成年禮你是什麼禮\n通過特意認證的你不要給他抽籤\n通過客語認證你就每個人發他一千塊我建議這第一個第二個預計發放四十萬客家幣你卻只有預估三十二萬人前往客庄人家發一千塊一個人就會帶一家人或帶兩三個朋友前往你發了四十萬客家幣一人一千四十萬人結果只預計三十二人次前往\n我們要看有限的錢我們怎麼做得最好但是我全力支持客家預算好不好你現在你就說嘛我給你4億發客家幣\n你既然40萬人,你只預計32萬人前往,這不太誇張了報告裡寫的啊,本案估計帶動你預估就估太少了啦,我知道,你前面浪費了我很多時間,謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.349 --> 00:03.573\n主席,有請谷主委。好,請出席。主委好。你好。\n\n00:12.139 --> 00:29.851\n現在一個立法院小學堂的考試請秀第一張投影片我們去年在審查今年總預算的時候我們在內政委員會內政委員會的提案表\n\n00:36.231 --> 00:39.754\n主委他會等於是最後的決議嗎所以我在這裡凍結該項預算4億元最後改成怎麼樣\n\n00:51.002 --> 00:57.127\n現在的改組決議在報告中作出對立報告是作出對立,好那我想這個應該不是客委會刻意流出去給很多的網軍策略,不是嗎?沒有,沒有,沒有,現在應該會有更快的諮詢所以我今天這個\n\n01:13.741 --> 01:23.204\n立法院小學堂就是希望讓很多的年輕人關心立法院非常好但是要了解真相不要拿提案表\n\n01:28.706 --> 01:46.041\n就拿來說這個是決議好不好我先跟她說我先問她我先問她等一下要不要過去決議以前要出席她跟妳說沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有\n\n01:49.851 --> 02:16.806\n今年二月開始他拿的所以這早就改了啦可能因為他浪費我時間去嘛不是還蠻改的部分啦他剛才怎麼說啦你用不安定喔我在找他沒有啦我用不安定在推敲啦因為那時間有落差嘛那拿走的就是原始版啦那沒關係嘛你現在澄清了嘛提案不等於決議嘛對而且最後是改組決議只要報告對不對\n\n02:18.507 --> 02:23.512\n結果結論是這樣結論是這樣,但是前前後後那先不美啊那再來講有意義嗎?譬如說今年2月、3月、4月到現在講凍結事宜有意義嗎?還是有意義,因為這是一個過程不是過程,它是一直講現在被凍結事宜喔,然後之後是3.6月後啊\n\n02:45.131 --> 02:51.176\n我現在在講這個案你浪費我很多時間我在講這個案你不要再去講到業務費我在講這個案有凍結事宜嗎最後的結論目前時候提報告提報告沒有凍結那你為什麼不講你就講一下沒有凍結我有凍結事宜嗎你現在再答覆我一次\n\n03:09.409 --> 03:12.672\n主決意就沒有動結的那個,你真的搞不懂,連你都搞不懂經同意後,使得動之\n\n03:33.407 --> 03:42.151\n沒有啦凍結預算4億就劃掉啦所以沒有凍結摸凍結摸凍結你看你知道主委一個主委對這個提案都你看用了我三分多鐘了好接下來接下來我想\n\n03:54.978 --> 04:04.106\n我們客語的傳承還有客家文化的傳承剛剛我們張宏祿召委講得非常好他有說錢要花在刀口上\n\n04:05.910 --> 04:27.151\n但是我們也非常肯定客核會長期以來做了很多客語推廣的努力包含網路有多元課程包含客語的認證辦了很多翻譯世界名著還有培訓了很多公開宣講員這個都做了很多沒錯但是我們看到的是這個數量就是\n\n04:29.973 --> 04:56.432\n這個成果用這樣子的量化可是輕忽了它的品質跟我們的最終的目的是要推廣客語所以客語它是一種語言就跟我們不管學台語還是學英語一樣那需要的是環境我想主委你認同吧你只要講認同不認同就是說語言它需要的是環境而且是盡量要融入在生活中您認同嗎\n\n04:56.872 --> 05:19.427\n我的念頭,我念頭,但是要反經,那不是一間人建立下來的對,我知道,當然當然,我沒有說,我沒有再往下講,還沒往下講啦所以呢,我們在這邊希望建議就是說,你量化的指標,是不是可以轉化成客語在日常生活中的使用\n\n05:20.989 --> 05:33.522\n就是說你們做了那麼多但是是不是接下來包括今年的預算開始使用的時候你要讓課宇怎麼樣可以真正在每個區塊每個區塊我們在每個區塊每個區塊你慢慢的從一個區塊譬如說南部\n\n05:41.690 --> 05:52.454\n南部他比較少客家莊但是有客家莊的地方客家人的地方你讓他一個區塊把讓這個客語可以慢慢的成為生活然後擴散就像我會哼人但是呢喉嚨會我會哼的詩啦但東東你哼什麼你會哼什麼啦\n\n06:00.837 --> 06:18.495\n所以我們應該讓這個克魚的這種生活上的應用更多還有包含我們這個這麼多量化的指標大家你在報告中也一直寫然後每年我們也花了很多的預算那我們有沒有促進跨世代的自然傳承\n\n06:19.116 --> 06:43.335\n也就是說要一代一代傳下去那還有就是說我們課語考試認證通過了那是否有代表他在市場在家庭在鄰里之間呢大家可以很自然的用課語來溝通甚至讓更多的人他可能不一定很會講但他已經都聽得懂課語或是可以聽得懂一半\n\n06:44.596 --> 07:07.274\n或者是他講得出幾句客語其實就像我對台語我都聽得懂然後我可以講部分我沒辦法講得很認真對台語但是我聽得懂我可以跟人家溝通那我要講的話我就講幾句我還可以叫我全部講我又沒辦法所以我們的客語可不可以朝向這方面我們來推廣的好一點\n\n07:08.344 --> 07:16.967\n當然圖羅維研所說的沒有錯,其實我們說的額度要罰錢,我妹妹預算不拿所以他又一點錢又散了你一直要強調這個經費,那我覺得我們現在在談預算很多人談預算的人他沒有關心你真正課宇的傳承\n\n07:34.201 --> 07:58.478\n所以主委你不要落入那個我們客家人我們都是客家人其實所有的政治人物包括所有的這些網軍側翼他要來喊喊喊喊到最後我們自己客家人要知道我的客語是不是真的在地方有推廣是不是在台灣客語跟客家文化是保存下來的怎麼說啊怎麼說啊同山勾腿灣啦齁沒搬兩千啦什麼三萬\n\n08:03.241 --> 08:29.075\n岡山岡天啦所以因為他剛剛的進行時期三萬打平啦沒辦兩千啦走得一直傳承下來所以客委會的預算客委會預算每年也增加所以不要老是用這種意識形態好不好我現在講不然你生命有什麼用不然你生命有什麼用不然你生命有什麼用不然你生命有什麼用不然你生命有什麼用不然你生命有什麼用不然你生命有什麼用\n\n08:31.796 --> 08:40.580\n我們現在課餘我們花了那麼多錢我們要知道陸續要喊不勞拜永遠不夠啦不勞拜因為你那個負責人過困難你會困難你們在報告裡面你要發客家幣客家幣你要發一千塊發四十萬人等於花四億\n\n09:02.250 --> 09:19.864\n人家文化幣文化幣是給年輕人的成人禮客家幣發給18到20歲的年輕人你這是什麼理由我沒有反對我應該先講我支持客家預算但是我更支持是我們所有的預算\n\n09:20.845 --> 09:40.200\n假設別人有更好的成果比你用少的錢或用跟你一樣的錢他有更好的成果你不要一直喊我錢要多然後都不去看成果我們要強調的是你成果要出來所以你花這個4億的客家幣你先說這個是什麼禮人家文化幣是成年禮你是什麼禮\n\n09:40.520 --> 09:40.920\n通過特意認證的你不要給他抽籤\n\n10:03.104 --> 10:27.840\n通過客語認證你就每個人發他一千塊我建議這第一個第二個預計發放四十萬客家幣你卻只有預估三十二萬人前往客庄人家發一千塊一個人就會帶一家人或帶兩三個朋友前往你發了四十萬客家幣一人一千四十萬人結果只預計三十二人次前往\n\n10:28.320 --> 10:30.781\n我們要看有限的錢我們怎麼做得最好但是我全力支持客家預算好不好你現在你就說嘛我給你4億發客家幣\n\n10:56.087 --> 11:13.119\n你既然40萬人,你只預計32萬人前往,這不太誇張了報告裡寫的啊,本案估計帶動你預估就估太少了啦,我知道,你前面浪費了我很多時間,謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.349,"end":3.573,"text":"主席,有請谷主委。好,請出席。主委好。你好。"},{"start":12.139,"end":29.851,"text":"現在一個立法院小學堂的考試請秀第一張投影片我們去年在審查今年總預算的時候我們在內政委員會內政委員會的提案表"},{"start":36.231,"end":39.754,"text":"主委他會等於是最後的決議嗎所以我在這裡凍結該項預算4億元最後改成怎麼樣"},{"start":51.002,"end":57.127,"text":"現在的改組決議在報告中作出對立報告是作出對立,好那我想這個應該不是客委會刻意流出去給很多的網軍策略,不是嗎?沒有,沒有,沒有,現在應該會有更快的諮詢所以我今天這個"},{"start":73.741,"end":83.204,"text":"立法院小學堂就是希望讓很多的年輕人關心立法院非常好但是要了解真相不要拿提案表"},{"start":88.706,"end":106.041,"text":"就拿來說這個是決議好不好我先跟她說我先問她我先問她等一下要不要過去決議以前要出席 她跟妳說沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有沒有"},{"start":109.851,"end":136.806,"text":"今年二月開始他拿的所以這早就改了啦可能因為他浪費我時間去嘛不是 還蠻改的部分啦他剛才怎麼說啦你用不安定喔 我在找他沒有啦我用不安定在推敲啦因為那時間有落差嘛那拿走的就是原始版啦那沒關係嘛 你現在澄清了嘛提案不等於決議嘛對 而且最後是改組決議只要報告 對不對"},{"start":138.507,"end":143.512,"text":"結果結論是這樣結論是這樣,但是前前後後那先不美啊那再來講有意義嗎?譬如說今年2月、3月、4月到現在講凍結事宜有意義嗎?還是有意義,因為這是一個過程不是過程,它是一直講現在被凍結事宜喔,然後之後是3.6月後啊"},{"start":165.131,"end":171.176,"text":"我現在在講這個案你浪費我很多時間我在講這個案你不要再去講到業務費我在講這個案有凍結事宜嗎最後的結論目前時候提報告提報告沒有凍結那你為什麼不講你就講一下沒有凍結我有凍結事宜嗎你現在再答覆我一次"},{"start":189.409,"end":192.672,"text":"主決意就沒有動結的那個,你真的搞不懂,連你都搞不懂經同意後,使得動之"},{"start":213.407,"end":222.151,"text":"沒有啦 凍結預算4億就劃掉啦所以沒有凍結 摸凍結 摸凍結你看 你知道主委 一個主委對這個提案都 你看 用了我三分多鐘了好 接下來 接下來 我想"},{"start":234.978,"end":244.106,"text":"我們客語的傳承還有客家文化的傳承剛剛我們張宏祿召委講得非常好他有說錢要花在刀口上"},{"start":245.91,"end":267.151,"text":"但是我們也非常肯定客核會長期以來做了很多客語推廣的努力包含網路有多元課程包含客語的認證辦了很多翻譯世界名著還有培訓了很多公開宣講員這個都做了很多沒錯但是我們看到的是這個數量就是"},{"start":269.973,"end":296.432,"text":"這個成果用這樣子的量化可是輕忽了它的品質跟我們的最終的目的是要推廣客語所以客語它是一種語言就跟我們不管學台語還是學英語一樣那需要的是環境我想主委你認同吧你只要講認同不認同就是說語言它需要的是環境而且是盡量要融入在生活中您認同嗎"},{"start":296.872,"end":319.427,"text":"我的念頭,我念頭,但是要反經,那不是一間人建立下來的對,我知道,當然當然,我沒有說,我沒有再往下講,還沒往下講啦所以呢,我們在這邊希望建議就是說,你量化的指標,是不是可以轉化成客語在日常生活中的使用"},{"start":320.989,"end":333.522,"text":"就是說你們做了那麼多但是是不是接下來包括今年的預算開始使用的時候你要讓課宇怎麼樣可以真正在每個區塊每個區塊我們在每個區塊每個區塊你慢慢的從一個區塊譬如說南部"},{"start":341.69,"end":352.454,"text":"南部他比較少客家莊但是有客家莊的地方客家人的地方你讓他一個區塊把讓這個客語可以慢慢的成為生活然後擴散就像我會哼人但是呢喉嚨會我會哼的詩啦但東東你哼什麼你會哼什麼啦"},{"start":360.837,"end":378.495,"text":"所以我們應該讓這個克魚的這種生活上的應用更多還有包含我們這個這麼多量化的指標大家你在報告中也一直寫然後每年我們也花了很多的預算那我們有沒有促進跨世代的自然傳承"},{"start":379.116,"end":403.335,"text":"也就是說要一代一代傳下去那還有就是說我們課語考試認證通過了那是否有代表他在市場在家庭在鄰里之間呢大家可以很自然的用課語來溝通甚至讓更多的人他可能不一定很會講但他已經都聽得懂課語或是可以聽得懂一半"},{"start":404.596,"end":427.274,"text":"或者是他講得出幾句客語其實就像我對台語我都聽得懂然後我可以講部分我沒辦法講得很認真對台語但是我聽得懂我可以跟人家溝通那我要講的話我就講幾句我還可以叫我全部講我又沒辦法所以我們的客語可不可以朝向這方面我們來推廣的好一點"},{"start":428.344,"end":436.967,"text":"當然圖羅維研所說的沒有錯,其實我們說的額度要罰錢,我妹妹預算不拿所以他又一點錢又散了你一直要強調這個經費,那我覺得我們現在在談預算很多人談預算的人他沒有關心你真正課宇的傳承"},{"start":454.201,"end":478.478,"text":"所以主委你不要落入那個我們客家人我們都是客家人其實所有的政治人物包括所有的這些網軍側翼他要來喊喊喊喊到最後我們自己客家人要知道我的客語是不是真的在地方有推廣是不是在台灣客語跟客家文化是保存下來的怎麼說啊怎麼說啊 同山勾腿灣啦齁沒搬兩千啦什麼三萬"},{"start":483.241,"end":509.075,"text":"岡山岡天啦所以因為他剛剛的進行時期三萬打平啦沒辦兩千啦走得一直傳承下來所以客委會的預算客委會預算每年也增加所以不要老是用這種意識形態好不好我現在講不然你生命有什麼用不然你生命有什麼用不然你生命有什麼用不然你生命有什麼用不然你生命有什麼用不然你生命有什麼用不然你生命有什麼用"},{"start":511.796,"end":520.58,"text":"我們現在課餘 我們花了那麼多錢我們要知道 陸續要喊不勞拜 永遠不夠啦不勞拜 因為你那個負責人 過困難 你會困難你們在報告裡面 你要發客家幣客家幣 你要發一千塊 發四十萬人 等於花四億"},{"start":542.25,"end":559.864,"text":"人家文化幣文化幣是給年輕人的成人禮客家幣發給18到20歲的年輕人你這是什麼理由我沒有反對我應該先講我支持客家預算但是我更支持是我們所有的預算"},{"start":560.845,"end":580.2,"text":"假設別人有更好的成果比你用少的錢或用跟你一樣的錢他有更好的成果你不要一直喊我錢要多然後都不去看成果我們要強調的是你成果要出來所以你花這個4億的客家幣你先說這個是什麼禮人家文化幣是成年禮你是什麼禮"},{"start":580.52,"end":580.92,"text":"通過特意認證的你不要給他抽籤"},{"start":603.104,"end":627.84,"text":"通過客語認證你就每個人發他一千塊我建議這第一個第二個預計發放四十萬客家幣你卻只有預估三十二萬人前往客庄人家發一千塊一個人就會帶一家人或帶兩三個朋友前往你發了四十萬客家幣一人一千四十萬人結果只預計三十二人次前往"},{"start":628.32,"end":630.781,"text":"我們要看有限的錢我們怎麼做得最好但是我全力支持客家預算好不好你現在你就說嘛我給你4億發客家幣"},{"start":656.087,"end":673.119,"text":"你既然40萬人,你只預計32萬人前往,這不太誇張了報告裡寫的啊,本案估計帶動你預估就估太少了啦,我知道,你前面浪費了我很多時間,謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":699,"blocks":[["徐委員欣瑩：（10時58分）謝謝主席，有請古主委。"],["主席（張委員宏陸）：請主委。"],["古主任委員秀妃：徐委員好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：主委好。首先，一個立法院小學堂的考試，請秀第一張投影片好嗎？我請問你，這是去年我們在審查今年總預算的時候，客委會預算在內政委員會審查時的資料，請問主委，內政委員會的提案表它會等於是最後的決議嗎？"],["古主任委員秀妃：不是，會做調整。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，所以我在這裡凍結該項預算4億元，最後改成怎麼樣，你說一下好嗎？"],["古主任委員秀妃：這個後來是改主決議。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，改主決議。"],["古主任委員秀妃：提報告就可以了。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，提報告就可以。我想這個應該不是客委會刻意流出去給很多的網軍側翼。"],["古主任委員秀妃：沒有、沒有。"],["徐委員欣瑩：不是嘛，不可能。"],["古主任委員秀妃：這個應該是公開的資訊，大家都看得到。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以我今天這個立法院小學堂就是希望讓很多的年輕人知道，關心立法院非常好，但是要瞭解真相、要瞭解真相！"],["古主任委員秀妃：我想……"],["徐委員欣瑩：等一下！不要拿提案表來說這個是決議，好不好？"],["古主任委員秀妃：我想跟委員說明一下，20秒就好……"],["徐委員欣瑩：我沒有問你，我時間寶貴。"],["古主任委員秀妃：這個還沒有改決議之前就送出去了，委員會要再到大會，這個決議也有可能成真。"],["徐委員欣瑩：不是！不是！我現在要跟你說不會，這是今年2月開始他拿的，所以這早就改了。"],["古主任委員秀妃：可能是還沒改的部分……"],["徐委員欣瑩：你怎麼這麼瞭解呢？側翼是你認識的嗎？不然你怎麼會知道？"],["古主任委員秀妃：不是，是推敲啦！因為時間有落差，他拿到的就是原始版。"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒關係，你現在澄清了，提案不等於決議，而且最後是改主決議，只要報告，對不對？"],["古主任委員秀妃：現在的結論是如此。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，結論是這樣。"],["古主任委員秀妃：可是前面可能不是這樣……"],["徐委員欣瑩：現在來講有意義嗎？比如，今年2月、3月、4月到現在講凍結4億有意義嗎？"],["古主任委員秀妃：還是有意義，因為這是一個過程。"],["徐委員欣瑩：不是過程，他一直講現在被凍結4億。"],["古主任委員秀妃：現在是3.6億，但不是這個案子……"],["徐委員欣瑩：對啊！我現在在講這個案子。"],["古主任委員秀妃：是業務費……"],["徐委員欣瑩：你浪費我很多時間，你不要再去講到業務費，我在講這個案子，有凍結4億嗎？最後的結論沒有嘛！"],["古主任委員秀妃：目前是要提報告。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，提報告，沒有凍結，那你為什麼不講？你就講一下沒有凍結嘛，我有凍結4億嗎？你現在再答復我一次。"],["古主任委員秀妃：我剛才有答復，現在是要提報告，同意之後就沒有問題，如果沒有同意可能就會有問題，這個我就不知道了……"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒有啊！就直接提，那個主決議就沒有凍結，你真的搞不懂！連你都搞不懂。"],["古主任委員秀妃：沒有，書面經同意後始得動支。"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒有，凍結預算4億就劃掉了，所以沒有凍結。"],["古主任委員秀妃：現在沒有凍結。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你要這麼說也對，一個主委對這個提案都搞不懂，你看用了我3分多鐘。接下來，我們客語的傳承，還有客家文化的傳承，剛剛張宏陸召委講得非常好，他說錢要花在刀口上，但是我們也非常肯定客委會長期以來做了很多客語推廣的努力，包含網路有多元課程、辦了很多客語認證、翻譯世界名著，還有培訓很多講客語的宣講員，你們都做了很多，沒錯。但是我們看到的是這個數量、成果用這樣子來量化，可是輕忽了它的品質，我們最終的目的是要推廣客語。客語是一種語言，就跟我們不管學臺語還是學英語一樣，需要的是環境，主委，你認同吧？你只要講認同、不認同就好，語言需要的是環境，而且是盡量要融入在生活中，你認同嗎？"],["古主任委員秀妃：我認同，不過這個環境是每一個人建立起來的。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，我知道，當然、當然，我沒有再往下講，我還沒往下講。所以我們建議量化的指標是不是可以轉化成客語在日常生活中的使用，你們做了那麼多，但是接下來，包括今年預算開始使用的時候，你要怎麼樣讓客語可以真正在每個區塊、每個區塊使用，如同你剛才講的環境。我們的環境能夠在每個區塊、每個區塊，慢慢的從一個區塊，譬如南部比較少客家庄，但是有客家庄的地方、客家人的地方，在這個區塊讓客語可以慢慢的成為生活，然後擴散。就像我是客家人，但是河洛話我聽得懂，但很多人聽不懂我們的客家話，所以我們應該讓客語在生活上的應用更多，還有包含這麼多的量化指標，你在報告中也一直寫，每年也花了很多的預算，我們有沒有促進跨世代的自然傳承，也就是要一代一代傳下去。","還有客語考試認證通過了，是否代表在市場、在家庭、在鄰里之間，大家可以很自然的用客語來溝通，甚至讓更多人聽得懂，他可能不一定很會講，但他已經都聽得懂客語或是可以聽得懂一半，而且講得出幾句客語，其實就像我對臺語都聽得懂，我也可以講出部分，我的臺語沒辦法講得很流利，但是我聽得懂，我可以跟人家溝通，我想要講的話還可以講得出幾句，但是叫我全部講臺語，我又沒辦法，所以我們的客語可不可以朝向這方面來推廣就好一點？"],["古主任委員秀妃：當然，剛剛委員所提到的沒有錯，其實我們講的這些都要花錢，但是我們的預算不夠，現在1.9億又刪除了。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你一直要強調這個經費，我覺得我們現在在談預算，很多談預算的人沒有關心真正客語的傳承，所以主委，你不要落入那個，我們都是客家人，其實所有的政治人物，包括所有的網軍、側翼，他來喊、喊、喊、喊到最後，我們客家人自己要知道客語是不是真的在地方有推廣，在臺灣客語和客家文化是不是保存下來。"],["古主任委員秀妃：我想現在客語……"],["徐委員欣瑩：我要說「唐山過臺灣無半點錢，剎猛打拚耕山耕田」，所以我們客家的精神就是「剎猛打拚」，但是「無半點錢」，還是可以一直傳承下去。"],["古主任委員秀妃：沒有錯，我認同委員所說的，我非常認同。"],["徐委員欣瑩：客委會的預算每年也增加，所以不要老是用這種意識形態，好不好？"],["古主任委員秀妃：但是我要跟委員說明，給我20秒說明就好了……"],["徐委員欣瑩：等一下，最重要的是，現在客語花了那麼多錢，我們要知道陸續……"],["古主任委員秀妃：還不夠、還不夠！現在還不夠，我跟委員報告，還不夠！"],["徐委員欣瑩：我知道，錢永遠不夠。"],["古主任委員秀妃：還是不夠，因為語言復振非常困難。"],["徐委員欣瑩：最後，你們在報告裡面提到要發客家幣，客家幣1,000塊要發40萬人，等於花4億，文化幣是給年輕人的成人禮，客家幣發給18到20歲的年輕人，這是什麼理由？我沒有反對，我應該先講，我支持客家預算，但是我更支持所有的預算，假設別人有更好的成果，用比你少的錢或是用跟你一樣的錢，但是有更好的成果，你不要一直喊我錢要多，然後都不去看成果，我們要強調的是你成果要出來，所以你花4億的客家幣，你先說這個是什麼禮，文化幣是成年禮，你是什麼禮？"],["古主任委員秀妃：我想我們不是用「禮」的概念……"],["徐委員欣瑩：你不回答，我就要打斷你了。"],["古主任委員秀妃：委員也很關心年輕人不講客家話，但是我們客家人在哪裡，我沒辦法一個一個找出來，我們的預算有限，所以我們提出18到20歲的年輕人使用……"],["徐委員欣瑩：你可以通過客語認證的不要抽籤，通過客語認證，你就每個人發1,000塊，這是我第一個建議。第二個，預計發放40萬份客家幣，卻只有預估32萬人前往客庄，人家是1個人發1,000塊就會帶一家人或帶兩、三個朋友前往，你發了40萬份客家幣，1人1,000元、40萬人，結果你只預計32萬人次前往，我覺得這個效率太差了。"],["古主任委員秀妃：我要跟委員報告，委員一直說不要講到錢，可是我還是要講到錢，因為客委會預算不夠……"],["徐委員欣瑩：可以講到錢沒關係，但是不要一直說不夠，我們要看的是有限的錢怎麼樣做到最好，但是我全力支持客家預算。"],["古主任委員秀妃：但是現在1.9億預算又被刪了。"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒關係，現在我給你4億發客家幣，既然要發40萬人，你只預計32萬人前往，這不會太誇張了？"],["古主任委員秀妃：不是、不是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：這是你報告裡寫的。"],["古主任委員秀妃：這是預估。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你的預估估太少了，我知道，你前面浪費了我很多時間，謝謝。"],["古主任委員秀妃：感謝徐委員。"],["主席：鍾佳濱、鍾佳濱、鍾佳濱委員不在。","楊瓊瓔、楊瓊瓔、楊瓊瓔委員不在。","鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐委員不在。","林國成、林國成、林國成委員不在。","林俊憲、林俊憲、林俊憲委員不在。","何欣純、何欣純、何欣純委員不在。","請徐富癸委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":50,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-10","speakers":["張宏陸","蘇巧慧","張智倫","王美惠","黃建賓","李柏毅","麥玉珍","黃捷","吳琪銘","牛煦庭","許宇甄","徐欣瑩","徐富癸","高金素梅","林思銘","丁學忠"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-04-16"],"gazette_id":"1143801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並\n備質詢","agenda_id":"1143801_00001"}}}