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00:00:33,736\n好謝謝主席麻煩邀請我們郭部長郭部長委員好部長好這個談到貿易嘛就是做生意嘛一般來說企業或者是商家做生意是為了什麼商家做生意是為了什麼\n\n2\n00:00:36,002 --> 00:00:38,550\n商家做生意我開一家公司是為了什麼\n\n3\n00:00:40,002 --> 00:01:07,093\n每一家的目的不會一樣吧應該是賺錢吧應該是一個普世的大家應該有一個共同的社會的認知我開一家公司就是賺錢啦社會企業就不一定他可能還會有一些這個社會的價值那什麼ESG啊或是什麼的那是附加的社會的責任啦那普遍大家開公司就是為了賺錢啦不是做功德啦那既然是為了賺錢那就是可能國際上貿易就是有順差嘛\n\n4\n00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:18,843\n順差了之後我做生意成功了我賺了很多錢那你因為可能你的生意做得沒有那麼好你賺得比較少或者是在國際貿易上面有了逆差那你要透過其他的手段來要求來說減這個貿易的順差逆差我想這可能是國際社會上面對於川普的一個政策許多的一個批評的一個地方那也因為這個對等關稅他們希望縮減了\n\n5\n00:01:37,149 --> 00:01:57,901\n順差跟貿易這個順差他們希望有更多的一些我們可能會有一些希望他會希望有更多的對美的一個投資那其中有一個項目然後其中有一個項目是這個美國AIT的時候有在提的就是一些核電的技術那剛剛部長在詢問的時候有說新的技術新的技術我們不會排斥然後就看新的技術到怎樣\n\n6\n00:02:00,743 --> 00:02:29,973\n那原來這樣核融核的技術目前國際上的新聞可能2030年最快商轉那可能這個都小規模到真的大規模的營運可能還是還要很久一個未知的時間那短期內可能還是一個還是會以核分裂的方式來做討論的一個標的啦那既然是傳統的核電廠那就有一個核廢料的問題那部長我的選區就是在萬里那萬里就是有一個核二廠那他就是有一個核廢料處理這個問題那包括台電目前在做\n\n7\n00:02:31,014 --> 00:02:41,851\n這個室外乾除已經發包了那室內乾除也準備要做了啦那無論如何我們目前對外的說法萬裡不是最終的處置場目前我們對外的說法是這樣子嘛對不對\n\n8\n00:02:43,973 --> 00:03:06,060\n我們這個儲置場要看這個科技的方式嘛最起碼我從這個原來的這個槽裡面要把這些這個用過的核廢料做一些乾式的儲藏對目前大概就是一個中期的儲置嘛我們並沒有對外宣稱最終的儲置場在萬里但是實際上我們的國家並沒有找到最終的儲置場\n\n9\n00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:24,418\n目前的進度是還沒有找到嘛普遍上社會也會預期找到最終處置場是非常的困難是非常困難的事情這是一個科幻的事實所以說中期的一個處置到底會在萬里百多久它是一個未定數那許多人認為很多地方的鄉親會認為\n\n10\n00:03:25,563 --> 00:03:51,989\n可能在他的有生之年他的有生之年這些包括室外的乾除或是室內的乾除他都不會離開萬里在他的有生之年可能我現在60歲了有些長輩60歲了你說50年後目標50年後要離開萬里對我來說他是沒有意義的對他來說就是終身都放在他的家鄉是在萬里所以說萬里的有些好朋友希望說討論\n\n11\n00:03:55,186 --> 00:04:23,609\n我們萬里既然我們國家沒有找到一個最終的處置場那我們現在是不是能夠務實的來討論我們的萬里它就是最終處置場的一個形態很多的民眾會是這樣討論因為中期跟最終處置它在回饋金上面有一定的差別在法定上面也有一定的差別那既然在我們的有生之年對我來說\n\n12\n00:04:25,130 --> 00:04:39,105\n對每個人來說不一樣或許是剛出生的民眾來說未來他可能在未來五六十年的時間有可能離開萬里但是對一個五六十歲的民眾來講的話你五六十年後離開萬里對他是沒有意義的你的中期跟最終處置場是沒有意義的\n\n13\n00:04:41,387 --> 00:05:00,634\n我們萬里有部分的民眾希望經濟部能夠務實地來討論有沒有辦法用最終處置場的一個法令或者是回饋的辦法來務實地告訴大家短期內沒有辦法離開那我們就用最終處置場的一個法令跟回饋的辦法來回饋萬里的鄉親不曉得部長認為這是不是有討論的機會這個我想我們來參考其他的國家的處理模式\n\n14\n00:05:10,854 --> 00:05:38,381\n我們也沒有什麼獨特的經驗嘛是然後我們就看其他的國家它處理模式怎麼樣來作為一個參考的辦法就是說我們當然是說現在萬里它就是一個戶外乾除跟室內乾除的一個中期處置但是當我們還沒有找到最終處置長之前我們不曉得它會在萬里擺多久很多人認為就是離不開萬里啦實務上很多人認為就是歸植在萬里那既然是在這樣的情況下\n\n15\n00:05:39,537 --> 00:06:08,235\n我們的回饋辦法就不能夠用中期的處置嘛因為你是對他們來說他是永遠的地方在那邊我想這個都是有法律的認定啦是那我們還是依法去作業啦那也會參考國外的一些科技的進步啦我想這個科技進步日新月異嘛那這個最終處置廠會在哪個地方我想美國他們也或者是世界科技的國家也都有一些這個paper出來嘛\n\n16\n00:06:08,695 --> 00:06:15,038\n那我們會參考最新的科技的處置方式作為我們這個最後決策之用\n\n17\n00:06:15,629 --> 00:06:44,150\n我想今天時間也不多我希望未來還有機會能夠跟部長討論在核廢料的處置上面如果我們國家沒有辦法很明確的告知我們萬里在地的民眾我們的最終處置場會在哪邊找到會在多久時間之內找到多久會移開萬里那我們就必須要討論一下我們必須可能要雖然說我們現在是中期的處置但是我們的可能的適用的法令在你沒有提出辦法或者說部長你講的新技術還沒有提出來之前大家認為會一直留在萬里這樣的情況下我們適用的回饋了一個\n\n18\n00:06:44,970 --> 00:07:04,337\n補助辦法就希望能夠用最終處置場的一個違規的補助方式來跟我們經濟部的討論希望未來有更多的機會你也可以不一定我是一個民營代表或是說你們也可以請我們台電或合二廠的一個相關的部門未來在跟鄉親在做討論的時候你們也可以收集一下相關的意見我傳遞的是不是鄉親的意見希望經濟部能夠重視這件事情以上謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8749\t33736\t好謝謝主席麻煩邀請我們郭部長郭部長委員好部長好這個談到貿易嘛就是做生意嘛一般來說企業或者是商家做生意是為了什麼商家做生意是為了什麼\n36002\t38550\t商家做生意我開一家公司是為了什麼\n40002\t67093\t每一家的目的不會一樣吧應該是賺錢吧應該是一個普世的大家應該有一個共同的社會的認知我開一家公司就是賺錢啦社會企業就不一定他可能還會有一些這個社會的價值那什麼ESG啊或是什麼的那是附加的社會的責任啦那普遍大家開公司就是為了賺錢啦不是做功德啦那既然是為了賺錢那就是可能國際上貿易就是有順差嘛\n69640\t78843\t順差了之後我做生意成功了我賺了很多錢那你因為可能你的生意做得沒有那麼好你賺得比較少或者是在國際貿易上面有了逆差那你要透過其他的手段來要求來說減這個貿易的順差逆差我想這可能是國際社會上面對於川普的一個政策許多的一個批評的一個地方那也因為這個對等關稅他們希望縮減了\n97149\t117901\t順差跟貿易這個順差他們希望有更多的一些我們可能會有一些希望他會希望有更多的對美的一個投資那其中有一個項目然後其中有一個項目是這個美國AIT的時候有在提的就是一些核電的技術那剛剛部長在詢問的時候有說新的技術新的技術我們不會排斥然後就看新的技術到怎樣\n120743\t149973\t那原來這樣核融核的技術目前國際上的新聞可能2030年最快商轉那可能這個都小規模到真的大規模的營運可能還是還要很久一個未知的時間那短期內可能還是一個還是會以核分裂的方式來做討論的一個標的啦那既然是傳統的核電廠那就有一個核廢料的問題那部長我的選區就是在萬里那萬里就是有一個核二廠那他就是有一個核廢料處理這個問題那包括台電目前在做\n151014\t161851\t這個室外乾除已經發包了那室內乾除也準備要做了啦那無論如何我們目前對外的說法萬裡不是最終的處置場目前我們對外的說法是這樣子嘛對不對\n163973\t186060\t我們這個儲置場要看這個科技的方式嘛最起碼我從這個原來的這個槽裡面要把這些這個用過的核廢料做一些乾式的儲藏對 目前大概就是一個中期的儲置嘛我們並沒有對外宣稱最終的儲置場在萬里但是實際上我們的國家並沒有找到最終的儲置場\n186840\t204418\t目前的進度是還沒有找到嘛普遍上社會也會預期找到最終處置場是非常的困難是非常困難的事情這是一個科幻的事實所以說中期的一個處置到底會在萬里百多久它是一個未定數那許多人認為很多地方的鄉親會認為\n205563\t231989\t可能在他的有生之年他的有生之年這些包括室外的乾除或是室內的乾除他都不會離開萬里在他的有生之年可能我現在60歲了有些長輩60歲了你說50年後目標50年後要離開萬里對我來說他是沒有意義的對他來說就是終身都放在他的家鄉是在萬里所以說萬里的有些好朋友希望說討論\n235186\t263609\t我們萬里既然我們國家沒有找到一個最終的處置場那我們現在是不是能夠務實的來討論我們的萬里它就是最終處置場的一個形態很多的民眾會是這樣討論因為中期跟最終處置它在回饋金上面有一定的差別在法定上面也有一定的差別那既然在我們的有生之年對我來說\n265130\t279105\t對每個人來說不一樣或許是剛出生的民眾來說未來他可能在未來五六十年的時間有可能離開萬里但是對一個五六十歲的民眾來講的話你五六十年後離開萬里對他是沒有意義的你的中期跟最終處置場是沒有意義的\n281387\t300634\t我們萬里有部分的民眾希望經濟部能夠務實地來討論有沒有辦法用最終處置場的一個法令或者是回饋的辦法來務實地告訴大家短期內沒有辦法離開那我們就用最終處置場的一個法令跟回饋的辦法來回饋萬里的鄉親不曉得部長認為這是不是有討論的機會這個我想我們來參考其他的國家的處理模式\n310854\t338381\t我們也沒有什麼獨特的經驗嘛是然後我們就看其他的國家它處理模式怎麼樣來作為一個參考的辦法就是說我們當然是說現在萬里它就是一個戶外乾除跟室內乾除的一個中期處置但是當我們還沒有找到最終處置長之前我們不曉得它會在萬里擺多久很多人認為就是離不開萬里啦實務上很多人認為就是歸植在萬里那既然是在這樣的情況下\n339537\t368235\t我們的回饋辦法就不能夠用中期的處置嘛因為你是對他們來說他是永遠的地方在那邊我想這個都是有法律的認定啦是那我們還是依法去作業啦那也會參考國外的一些科技的進步啦我想這個科技進步日新月異嘛那這個最終處置廠會在哪個地方我想美國他們也或者是世界科技的國家也都有一些這個paper出來嘛\n368695\t375038\t那我們會參考最新的科技的處置方式作為我們這個最後決策之用\n375629\t404150\t我想今天時間也不多我希望未來還有機會能夠跟部長討論在核廢料的處置上面如果我們國家沒有辦法很明確的告知我們萬里在地的民眾我們的最終處置場會在哪邊找到會在多久時間之內找到多久會移開萬里那我們就必須要討論一下我們必須可能要雖然說我們現在是中期的處置但是我們的可能的適用的法令在你沒有提出辦法或者說部長你講的新技術還沒有提出來之前大家認為會一直留在萬里這樣的情況下我們適用的回饋了一個\n404970\t424337\t補助辦法就希望能夠用最終處置場的一個違規的補助方式來跟我們經濟部的討論希望未來有更多的機會你也可以不一定我是一個民營代表或是說你們也可以請我們台電或合二廠的一個相關的部門未來在跟鄉親在做討論的時候你們也可以收集一下相關的意見我傳遞的是不是鄉親的意見希望經濟部能夠重視這件事情以上謝謝\n","txt":"好謝謝主席麻煩邀請我們郭部長郭部長委員好部長好這個談到貿易嘛就是做生意嘛一般來說企業或者是商家做生意是為了什麼商家做生意是為了什麼\n商家做生意我開一家公司是為了什麼\n每一家的目的不會一樣吧應該是賺錢吧應該是一個普世的大家應該有一個共同的社會的認知我開一家公司就是賺錢啦社會企業就不一定他可能還會有一些這個社會的價值那什麼ESG啊或是什麼的那是附加的社會的責任啦那普遍大家開公司就是為了賺錢啦不是做功德啦那既然是為了賺錢那就是可能國際上貿易就是有順差嘛\n順差了之後我做生意成功了我賺了很多錢那你因為可能你的生意做得沒有那麼好你賺得比較少或者是在國際貿易上面有了逆差那你要透過其他的手段來要求來說減這個貿易的順差逆差我想這可能是國際社會上面對於川普的一個政策許多的一個批評的一個地方那也因為這個對等關稅他們希望縮減了\n順差跟貿易這個順差他們希望有更多的一些我們可能會有一些希望他會希望有更多的對美的一個投資那其中有一個項目然後其中有一個項目是這個美國AIT的時候有在提的就是一些核電的技術那剛剛部長在詢問的時候有說新的技術新的技術我們不會排斥然後就看新的技術到怎樣\n那原來這樣核融核的技術目前國際上的新聞可能2030年最快商轉那可能這個都小規模到真的大規模的營運可能還是還要很久一個未知的時間那短期內可能還是一個還是會以核分裂的方式來做討論的一個標的啦那既然是傳統的核電廠那就有一個核廢料的問題那部長我的選區就是在萬里那萬里就是有一個核二廠那他就是有一個核廢料處理這個問題那包括台電目前在做\n這個室外乾除已經發包了那室內乾除也準備要做了啦那無論如何我們目前對外的說法萬裡不是最終的處置場目前我們對外的說法是這樣子嘛對不對\n我們這個儲置場要看這個科技的方式嘛最起碼我從這個原來的這個槽裡面要把這些這個用過的核廢料做一些乾式的儲藏對 目前大概就是一個中期的儲置嘛我們並沒有對外宣稱最終的儲置場在萬里但是實際上我們的國家並沒有找到最終的儲置場\n目前的進度是還沒有找到嘛普遍上社會也會預期找到最終處置場是非常的困難是非常困難的事情這是一個科幻的事實所以說中期的一個處置到底會在萬里百多久它是一個未定數那許多人認為很多地方的鄉親會認為\n可能在他的有生之年他的有生之年這些包括室外的乾除或是室內的乾除他都不會離開萬里在他的有生之年可能我現在60歲了有些長輩60歲了你說50年後目標50年後要離開萬里對我來說他是沒有意義的對他來說就是終身都放在他的家鄉是在萬里所以說萬里的有些好朋友希望說討論\n我們萬里既然我們國家沒有找到一個最終的處置場那我們現在是不是能夠務實的來討論我們的萬里它就是最終處置場的一個形態很多的民眾會是這樣討論因為中期跟最終處置它在回饋金上面有一定的差別在法定上面也有一定的差別那既然在我們的有生之年對我來說\n對每個人來說不一樣或許是剛出生的民眾來說未來他可能在未來五六十年的時間有可能離開萬里但是對一個五六十歲的民眾來講的話你五六十年後離開萬里對他是沒有意義的你的中期跟最終處置場是沒有意義的\n我們萬里有部分的民眾希望經濟部能夠務實地來討論有沒有辦法用最終處置場的一個法令或者是回饋的辦法來務實地告訴大家短期內沒有辦法離開那我們就用最終處置場的一個法令跟回饋的辦法來回饋萬里的鄉親不曉得部長認為這是不是有討論的機會這個我想我們來參考其他的國家的處理模式\n我們也沒有什麼獨特的經驗嘛是然後我們就看其他的國家它處理模式怎麼樣來作為一個參考的辦法就是說我們當然是說現在萬里它就是一個戶外乾除跟室內乾除的一個中期處置但是當我們還沒有找到最終處置長之前我們不曉得它會在萬里擺多久很多人認為就是離不開萬里啦實務上很多人認為就是歸植在萬里那既然是在這樣的情況下\n我們的回饋辦法就不能夠用中期的處置嘛因為你是對他們來說他是永遠的地方在那邊我想這個都是有法律的認定啦是那我們還是依法去作業啦那也會參考國外的一些科技的進步啦我想這個科技進步日新月異嘛那這個最終處置廠會在哪個地方我想美國他們也或者是世界科技的國家也都有一些這個paper出來嘛\n那我們會參考最新的科技的處置方式作為我們這個最後決策之用\n我想今天時間也不多我希望未來還有機會能夠跟部長討論在核廢料的處置上面如果我們國家沒有辦法很明確的告知我們萬里在地的民眾我們的最終處置場會在哪邊找到會在多久時間之內找到多久會移開萬里那我們就必須要討論一下我們必須可能要雖然說我們現在是中期的處置但是我們的可能的適用的法令在你沒有提出辦法或者說部長你講的新技術還沒有提出來之前大家認為會一直留在萬里這樣的情況下我們適用的回饋了一個\n補助辦法就希望能夠用最終處置場的一個違規的補助方式來跟我們經濟部的討論希望未來有更多的機會你也可以不一定我是一個民營代表或是說你們也可以請我們台電或合二廠的一個相關的部門未來在跟鄉親在做討論的時候你們也可以收集一下相關的意見我傳遞的是不是鄉親的意見希望經濟部能夠重視這件事情以上謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.749 --> 00:33.736\n好謝謝主席麻煩邀請我們郭部長郭部長委員好部長好這個談到貿易嘛就是做生意嘛一般來說企業或者是商家做生意是為了什麼商家做生意是為了什麼\n\n00:36.002 --> 00:38.550\n商家做生意我開一家公司是為了什麼\n\n00:40.002 --> 01:07.093\n每一家的目的不會一樣吧應該是賺錢吧應該是一個普世的大家應該有一個共同的社會的認知我開一家公司就是賺錢啦社會企業就不一定他可能還會有一些這個社會的價值那什麼ESG啊或是什麼的那是附加的社會的責任啦那普遍大家開公司就是為了賺錢啦不是做功德啦那既然是為了賺錢那就是可能國際上貿易就是有順差嘛\n\n01:09.640 --> 01:18.843\n順差了之後我做生意成功了我賺了很多錢那你因為可能你的生意做得沒有那麼好你賺得比較少或者是在國際貿易上面有了逆差那你要透過其他的手段來要求來說減這個貿易的順差逆差我想這可能是國際社會上面對於川普的一個政策許多的一個批評的一個地方那也因為這個對等關稅他們希望縮減了\n\n01:37.149 --> 01:57.901\n順差跟貿易這個順差他們希望有更多的一些我們可能會有一些希望他會希望有更多的對美的一個投資那其中有一個項目然後其中有一個項目是這個美國AIT的時候有在提的就是一些核電的技術那剛剛部長在詢問的時候有說新的技術新的技術我們不會排斥然後就看新的技術到怎樣\n\n02:00.743 --> 02:29.973\n那原來這樣核融核的技術目前國際上的新聞可能2030年最快商轉那可能這個都小規模到真的大規模的營運可能還是還要很久一個未知的時間那短期內可能還是一個還是會以核分裂的方式來做討論的一個標的啦那既然是傳統的核電廠那就有一個核廢料的問題那部長我的選區就是在萬里那萬里就是有一個核二廠那他就是有一個核廢料處理這個問題那包括台電目前在做\n\n02:31.014 --> 02:41.851\n這個室外乾除已經發包了那室內乾除也準備要做了啦那無論如何我們目前對外的說法萬裡不是最終的處置場目前我們對外的說法是這樣子嘛對不對\n\n02:43.973 --> 03:06.060\n我們這個儲置場要看這個科技的方式嘛最起碼我從這個原來的這個槽裡面要把這些這個用過的核廢料做一些乾式的儲藏對目前大概就是一個中期的儲置嘛我們並沒有對外宣稱最終的儲置場在萬里但是實際上我們的國家並沒有找到最終的儲置場\n\n03:06.840 --> 03:24.418\n目前的進度是還沒有找到嘛普遍上社會也會預期找到最終處置場是非常的困難是非常困難的事情這是一個科幻的事實所以說中期的一個處置到底會在萬里百多久它是一個未定數那許多人認為很多地方的鄉親會認為\n\n03:25.563 --> 03:51.989\n可能在他的有生之年他的有生之年這些包括室外的乾除或是室內的乾除他都不會離開萬里在他的有生之年可能我現在60歲了有些長輩60歲了你說50年後目標50年後要離開萬里對我來說他是沒有意義的對他來說就是終身都放在他的家鄉是在萬里所以說萬里的有些好朋友希望說討論\n\n03:55.186 --> 04:23.609\n我們萬里既然我們國家沒有找到一個最終的處置場那我們現在是不是能夠務實的來討論我們的萬里它就是最終處置場的一個形態很多的民眾會是這樣討論因為中期跟最終處置它在回饋金上面有一定的差別在法定上面也有一定的差別那既然在我們的有生之年對我來說\n\n04:25.130 --> 04:39.105\n對每個人來說不一樣或許是剛出生的民眾來說未來他可能在未來五六十年的時間有可能離開萬里但是對一個五六十歲的民眾來講的話你五六十年後離開萬里對他是沒有意義的你的中期跟最終處置場是沒有意義的\n\n04:41.387 --> 05:00.634\n我們萬里有部分的民眾希望經濟部能夠務實地來討論有沒有辦法用最終處置場的一個法令或者是回饋的辦法來務實地告訴大家短期內沒有辦法離開那我們就用最終處置場的一個法令跟回饋的辦法來回饋萬里的鄉親不曉得部長認為這是不是有討論的機會這個我想我們來參考其他的國家的處理模式\n\n05:10.854 --> 05:38.381\n我們也沒有什麼獨特的經驗嘛是然後我們就看其他的國家它處理模式怎麼樣來作為一個參考的辦法就是說我們當然是說現在萬里它就是一個戶外乾除跟室內乾除的一個中期處置但是當我們還沒有找到最終處置長之前我們不曉得它會在萬里擺多久很多人認為就是離不開萬里啦實務上很多人認為就是歸植在萬里那既然是在這樣的情況下\n\n05:39.537 --> 06:08.235\n我們的回饋辦法就不能夠用中期的處置嘛因為你是對他們來說他是永遠的地方在那邊我想這個都是有法律的認定啦是那我們還是依法去作業啦那也會參考國外的一些科技的進步啦我想這個科技進步日新月異嘛那這個最終處置廠會在哪個地方我想美國他們也或者是世界科技的國家也都有一些這個paper出來嘛\n\n06:08.695 --> 06:15.038\n那我們會參考最新的科技的處置方式作為我們這個最後決策之用\n\n06:15.629 --> 06:44.150\n我想今天時間也不多我希望未來還有機會能夠跟部長討論在核廢料的處置上面如果我們國家沒有辦法很明確的告知我們萬里在地的民眾我們的最終處置場會在哪邊找到會在多久時間之內找到多久會移開萬里那我們就必須要討論一下我們必須可能要雖然說我們現在是中期的處置但是我們的可能的適用的法令在你沒有提出辦法或者說部長你講的新技術還沒有提出來之前大家認為會一直留在萬里這樣的情況下我們適用的回饋了一個\n\n06:44.970 --> 07:04.337\n補助辦法就希望能夠用最終處置場的一個違規的補助方式來跟我們經濟部的討論希望未來有更多的機會你也可以不一定我是一個民營代表或是說你們也可以請我們台電或合二廠的一個相關的部門未來在跟鄉親在做討論的時候你們也可以收集一下相關的意見我傳遞的是不是鄉親的意見希望經濟部能夠重視這件事情以上謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.749,"end":33.736,"text":"好謝謝主席麻煩邀請我們郭部長郭部長委員好部長好這個談到貿易嘛就是做生意嘛一般來說企業或者是商家做生意是為了什麼商家做生意是為了什麼"},{"start":36.002,"end":38.55,"text":"商家做生意我開一家公司是為了什麼"},{"start":40.002,"end":67.093,"text":"每一家的目的不會一樣吧應該是賺錢吧應該是一個普世的大家應該有一個共同的社會的認知我開一家公司就是賺錢啦社會企業就不一定他可能還會有一些這個社會的價值那什麼ESG啊或是什麼的那是附加的社會的責任啦那普遍大家開公司就是為了賺錢啦不是做功德啦那既然是為了賺錢那就是可能國際上貿易就是有順差嘛"},{"start":69.64,"end":78.843,"text":"順差了之後我做生意成功了我賺了很多錢那你因為可能你的生意做得沒有那麼好你賺得比較少或者是在國際貿易上面有了逆差那你要透過其他的手段來要求來說減這個貿易的順差逆差我想這可能是國際社會上面對於川普的一個政策許多的一個批評的一個地方那也因為這個對等關稅他們希望縮減了"},{"start":97.149,"end":117.901,"text":"順差跟貿易這個順差他們希望有更多的一些我們可能會有一些希望他會希望有更多的對美的一個投資那其中有一個項目然後其中有一個項目是這個美國AIT的時候有在提的就是一些核電的技術那剛剛部長在詢問的時候有說新的技術新的技術我們不會排斥然後就看新的技術到怎樣"},{"start":120.743,"end":149.973,"text":"那原來這樣核融核的技術目前國際上的新聞可能2030年最快商轉那可能這個都小規模到真的大規模的營運可能還是還要很久一個未知的時間那短期內可能還是一個還是會以核分裂的方式來做討論的一個標的啦那既然是傳統的核電廠那就有一個核廢料的問題那部長我的選區就是在萬里那萬里就是有一個核二廠那他就是有一個核廢料處理這個問題那包括台電目前在做"},{"start":151.014,"end":161.851,"text":"這個室外乾除已經發包了那室內乾除也準備要做了啦那無論如何我們目前對外的說法萬裡不是最終的處置場目前我們對外的說法是這樣子嘛對不對"},{"start":163.973,"end":186.06,"text":"我們這個儲置場要看這個科技的方式嘛最起碼我從這個原來的這個槽裡面要把這些這個用過的核廢料做一些乾式的儲藏對 目前大概就是一個中期的儲置嘛我們並沒有對外宣稱最終的儲置場在萬里但是實際上我們的國家並沒有找到最終的儲置場"},{"start":186.84,"end":204.418,"text":"目前的進度是還沒有找到嘛普遍上社會也會預期找到最終處置場是非常的困難是非常困難的事情這是一個科幻的事實所以說中期的一個處置到底會在萬里百多久它是一個未定數那許多人認為很多地方的鄉親會認為"},{"start":205.563,"end":231.989,"text":"可能在他的有生之年他的有生之年這些包括室外的乾除或是室內的乾除他都不會離開萬里在他的有生之年可能我現在60歲了有些長輩60歲了你說50年後目標50年後要離開萬里對我來說他是沒有意義的對他來說就是終身都放在他的家鄉是在萬里所以說萬里的有些好朋友希望說討論"},{"start":235.186,"end":263.609,"text":"我們萬里既然我們國家沒有找到一個最終的處置場那我們現在是不是能夠務實的來討論我們的萬里它就是最終處置場的一個形態很多的民眾會是這樣討論因為中期跟最終處置它在回饋金上面有一定的差別在法定上面也有一定的差別那既然在我們的有生之年對我來說"},{"start":265.13,"end":279.105,"text":"對每個人來說不一樣或許是剛出生的民眾來說未來他可能在未來五六十年的時間有可能離開萬里但是對一個五六十歲的民眾來講的話你五六十年後離開萬里對他是沒有意義的你的中期跟最終處置場是沒有意義的"},{"start":281.387,"end":300.634,"text":"我們萬里有部分的民眾希望經濟部能夠務實地來討論有沒有辦法用最終處置場的一個法令或者是回饋的辦法來務實地告訴大家短期內沒有辦法離開那我們就用最終處置場的一個法令跟回饋的辦法來回饋萬里的鄉親不曉得部長認為這是不是有討論的機會這個我想我們來參考其他的國家的處理模式"},{"start":310.854,"end":338.381,"text":"我們也沒有什麼獨特的經驗嘛是然後我們就看其他的國家它處理模式怎麼樣來作為一個參考的辦法就是說我們當然是說現在萬里它就是一個戶外乾除跟室內乾除的一個中期處置但是當我們還沒有找到最終處置長之前我們不曉得它會在萬里擺多久很多人認為就是離不開萬里啦實務上很多人認為就是歸植在萬里那既然是在這樣的情況下"},{"start":339.537,"end":368.235,"text":"我們的回饋辦法就不能夠用中期的處置嘛因為你是對他們來說他是永遠的地方在那邊我想這個都是有法律的認定啦是那我們還是依法去作業啦那也會參考國外的一些科技的進步啦我想這個科技進步日新月異嘛那這個最終處置廠會在哪個地方我想美國他們也或者是世界科技的國家也都有一些這個paper出來嘛"},{"start":368.695,"end":375.038,"text":"那我們會參考最新的科技的處置方式作為我們這個最後決策之用"},{"start":375.629,"end":404.15,"text":"我想今天時間也不多我希望未來還有機會能夠跟部長討論在核廢料的處置上面如果我們國家沒有辦法很明確的告知我們萬里在地的民眾我們的最終處置場會在哪邊找到會在多久時間之內找到多久會移開萬里那我們就必須要討論一下我們必須可能要雖然說我們現在是中期的處置但是我們的可能的適用的法令在你沒有提出辦法或者說部長你講的新技術還沒有提出來之前大家認為會一直留在萬里這樣的情況下我們適用的回饋了一個"},{"start":404.97,"end":424.337,"text":"補助辦法就希望能夠用最終處置場的一個違規的補助方式來跟我們經濟部的討論希望未來有更多的機會你也可以不一定我是一個民營代表或是說你們也可以請我們台電或合二廠的一個相關的部門未來在跟鄉親在做討論的時候你們也可以收集一下相關的意見我傳遞的是不是鄉親的意見希望經濟部能夠重視這件事情以上謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1069,"blocks":[["廖委員先翔：（12時45分），好，謝謝主席。麻煩邀請我們郭部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["廖委員先翔：部長好。談到貿易，就是做生意，一般來說，企業或者是商家做生意是為了什麼？商家做生意是為了什麼？我開一家公司是為了什麼？應該是賺錢吧？"],["郭部長智輝：每一家的目的不會一樣。"],["廖委員先翔：應該是賺錢吧？應該是大家有一個共同的社會的認知，我開一家公司就是要賺錢啊。"],["郭部長智輝：不一定，社會企業就不一定……"],["廖委員先翔：它可能還會有一些社會的價值，那是附加的社會責任，普遍大家開公司是為了賺錢，不是做功德。既然是為了賺錢，那國際上貿易就是有順差，順差了之後，我做生意成功了，我賺了很多錢，因為你的生意可能做得沒有那麼好，你賺得比較少或者是在國際貿易上面有了逆差，那你要透過其他的手段來要求縮減這個貿易的順差、逆差，我想這可能就是國際社會上面對於川普的政策有許多批評的地方，那也因為這個對等關稅，他們希望縮減貿易順差、他們希望有更多對美的投資，其中有一個項目，就是美國AIT有在提的、就是一些核電的技術，剛剛部長在詢答的時候有說，新的技術我們不會排斥，就看新的技術到怎麼樣，原則上核融合的技術，目前依國際上的新聞，可能最快在2030年商轉，那個都是小規模的核能，要真的大規模的營運，可能還是要很久，一個未知的時間，短期內可能還是會以核分裂的方式來做討論的標的。那既然是傳統的核電廠，就有核廢料的問題，部長，我的選區就是在萬里，萬里就是有一個核二廠、就是有核廢料處置的問題，台電目前在做室外乾貯，已經發包了，室內乾貯也準備要做了，無論如何，依目前對外的說法，萬里不是最終的處置場，目前我們對外的說法是這樣子嘛，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：處置場要看科技的方式，最起碼，從原來的槽裡面，要把用過的核廢料做一些乾式的貯藏……"],["廖委員先翔：目前大概就是中期的處置，並沒有對外宣稱最終的處置場在萬里，但是實際上我們國家並沒有找到最終的處置場，目前的進度是還沒有找到，普遍上社會也會預期找到最終處置場是非常困難、是非常困難的事情，這是一個客觀的事實，所以說中期的處置到底會在萬里擺多久，是一個未定數，很多地方的鄉親會認為，可能在他的有生之年，這些包括室外的乾貯、室內的乾貯，大概都不會離開萬里，在他的有生之年，有些長輩60歲了，你說目標是50年後要離開萬里，對這些長輩來說是沒有意義的，對他來說，就是終身都放在他的家鄉，是在萬里，所以萬里有些朋友在討論，希望說，既然我們國家沒有找到一個最終的處置場，那我們現在是不是能夠務實地來討論，我們的萬里就是最終處置場的一個型態。很多的民眾會這樣討論，因為中期處置跟最終處置，在回饋金上面有一定的差別，在法令上面也有一定的差別，那既然在我們的有生之年，對我來說、對每個人來說，不一樣，對剛出生的民眾來說，未來可能有五、六十年的時間，他有可能離開萬里，但是對一個五、六十歲的民眾來講的話，你50年後離開萬里，對他是沒有意義的，中期跟最終處置場在哪裡，對他來說是沒有意義的。我們萬里有部分民眾希望經濟部能夠務實地來討論有沒有辦法用最終處置場的法令或是回饋的辦法來務實地告訴大家，短期內沒有辦法離開，那我們就用最終處置場的法令跟回饋的辦法來回饋萬里的鄉親，不曉得部長認為這是不是有討論的機會？"],["郭部長智輝：對於這個問題，我們來參考其他國家的處理模式，我們也沒有什麼獨特的經驗，我們就看其他的國家處理模式怎麼樣，來作為一個參考的方法。"],["廖委員先翔：就是說，現在萬里就是戶外乾貯跟室內乾貯的終極處置，但是當我們還沒有找到最終處置場之前，我們不曉得它會在萬里擺多久，很多人認為就是離不開萬里，實務上很多人認為就是會一直在萬里，既然是在這樣的情況下，回饋辦法就不能夠用中期的處置，因為對他們來說，它是永遠放在那邊。"],["郭部長智輝：是有法律的認定，那我們還是依法去作業，也會參考國外的一些科技的進步，科技進步日新月異，最終處置場會在哪個地方，我想美國或世界其他高科技的國家，也都有一些paper出來，那我們會參考最新的科技的處置方式，作為我們最後決策之用。"],["廖委員先翔：我想今天時間也不多，我希望未來還有機會能夠跟部長討論，在核廢料的處置上面，如果我們國家沒有辦法很明確地告知我們萬里在地的民眾，我們的最終處置場會在哪邊找到、會在多少時間之內找到、多久會離開萬里，那我們就必須要討論一下。雖然說我們萬里現在是中期處置場，但是我們可能適用的法令，在你沒有提出辦法，或部長你講的新技術還沒有提出來之前，大家都認為會一直留在萬里的情況下，我們適用的回饋補助辦法，我們希望能夠用最終處置場的回饋補助方式，來跟我們經濟部的討論，希望未來有更多的機會。你也不一定用跟民意代表溝通的方式來跟我討論，你們也可以請台電或核二廠的相關部門，未來在跟鄉親討論的時候，你們也可以蒐集一下相關的意見，看看我傳遞的是不是鄉親的意見，希望經濟部能夠重視這件事情。好，以上，謝謝。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。我們現在請黃健豪委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":116,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-9","speakers":["謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","陳亭妃","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra 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