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565.403, \"end\": 565.863, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 565.863, \"end\": 566.384, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"畫\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 566.384, \"end\": 566.504, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 566.504, \"end\": 566.604, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 566.604, \"end\": 566.664, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 566.664, \"end\": 567.004, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 567.004, \"end\": 567.124, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 567.124, \"end\": 567.204, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"營\"}, {\"word\": \"運\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 567.204, \"end\": 567.345, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 567.345, \"end\": 567.505, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 567.505, \"end\": 567.625, \"score\": 0.787}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 567.625, \"end\": 568.125, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 568.125, \"end\": 568.145, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:15,619 --> 00:00:22,046\n主席我們現在請副主委有請副主委委員早\n\n2\n00:00:23,255 --> 00:00:45,827\n副主委早我們今天就這個國家海洋科技的營運中心設置條例我們要進行審查了那這個剛才前面幾位委員也大概針對這個我們的這個設置這樣子行政法人的相關的這些未來的權責等等有跟你進行過溝通那我這裡大概要請問就是說我們現在你能不能說明一下我們過去這樣子這麼多年\n\n3\n00:00:46,747 --> 00:00:53,888\n我們現在為什麼我們海委會認為我們營運中心有設置的急迫性\n\n4\n00:00:55,370 --> 00:01:20,295\n急迫性在哪裡?過去我們是怎麼做的?為什麼現在有急迫性?設置之後跟現在有哪些改變?主要是國海院有兩個中長城的計畫一個是國家船模實驗室的建造,一個是調查船一個是調查船,一個是船模實驗室這兩項功能我們現在還沒有國家營運中心我們現在沒有這樣的船模實驗室我們現在也沒有這樣的調查船那我們現在是怎麼做的?\n\n5\n00:01:21,235 --> 00:01:50,297\n我們目前的船模實驗沒有那麼完整就是在一些學校裡面有船模實驗但是我們這一次建造的更完整包括安奈海的性能水槽我們現在沒有營運這個國家的這個調查船那我們現在這些海洋資訊的這些調查是怎麼做的我們目前還是有像國科會的那個實驗院的還是有一些科研船但是我們這一次是全海域的基礎調查的這樣子的我們現在沒有做全海域的基礎調查嗎有但是還是會受到一些限制現在是怎麼做的\n\n6\n00:01:51,198 --> 00:02:10,307\n現在沒有營運中心是怎麼做的你這個要講我們才知道說那為什麼設置現在要設置這個行政法人是必須的報告委員那現在的話就是有一些預算那由國海院在執行那像我們目前執行的一個方式通常就是以委辦的方式委辦對委辦的方式對事實上我們現在是委辦對是委辦的方式委誰辦現在大多數委誰辦\n\n7\n00:02:12,568 --> 00:02:41,196\n有些是測量公司有些是學術單位國內的還是國際的國內的那如果說是屬於要租船的話那租船的話大概會有一些科業船也可以來租用那如果說是屬於一些測會的話有時候有一些是私人的一些測會公司那如果我們未來有這個調查船的話那海委會本身就可以發揮這樣子的一個功能我覺得這個要講這個我們要對外說明清楚為什麼我們現在要做這個船舶實驗室是重要的為什麼我們現在要做國家級的自己的這個全海域的調查船這個是重要的\n\n8\n00:02:41,796 --> 00:02:58,600\n這個是重要的這個前提成立我們才要我們才來說那接下來這要怎麼營運要怎麼營運之後我們才說這營運到底我們是要用公部門來營運還是用行政法人來營運對不對所以這個部分這個要先講清楚那我們現在要成立這樣子的營運中心\n\n9\n00:03:03,038 --> 00:03:30,578\n來看看其他國際的國家他們有沒有做我們現在目前沒有我們國家一直過去到現在一直沒有我們現在看看國外的這些例子包括美國美國他們有一個國家科學技術政策辦公室下面設了一個國家科學技術小組委員會所以美國他是用公部門來營運這些事情美國用公部門英國也是公部門\n\n10\n00:03:31,778 --> 00:03:43,478\n英國他設置一個科學技術委員會下面設一個海洋科學協調委員會他還是屬於公部門那跟我們條件最接近鄰近我們的日本日本他\n\n11\n00:03:44,704 --> 00:04:09,458\n原本也是設立公部門,原本在1971年就設置了一個海洋科學技術中心但他們在2004年把這樣的公部門的海洋科學技術中心他們把它改成行政法人在2004年提早我們21年的時間設立了這樣的行政法人這個行政法人叫做海洋地球科學技術振興機構這樣的行政法人\n\n12\n00:04:13,257 --> 00:04:38,068\n那所以這個我們也看剛剛在講這個急迫性我們現在看其他國家在日本他們的這些這樣子的大型的海洋調查船日本現在目前有幾艘你們知道嗎大型的有七艘大型的有七艘中國有幾艘中國的大概六十艘以上六十艘以上那我們台灣呢\n\n13\n00:04:39,249 --> 00:04:55,933\n目前沒有嗎台灣現在目前就是以科學服務的科研服務的話有海野國科會下面有4艘國科會下面有4艘還有農業服務也有那我們現在急迫我們現在在進行我們已經進行招標現在在做的是幾噸的300我們現在100噸300100跟300未來還有4000未來有4000我現在\n\n14\n00:05:03,643 --> 00:05:32,282\n這個部分我馬上跟你討論但我在這個之前我們回到前面的問題剛才其他委員也有問到啦齁我們現在有國海院剛剛很多人有關心我們現在目前的這個這個國海院跟我們的這個營運未來要設置的營運中心他的全責我看起來全責大致上是重疊真正特殊的就是船舶實驗室跟調查船的營運嘛對不對只有這兩個其他大部分是特殊那我想請問一下副主委我們現在這個我們目前的這個國海院\n\n15\n00:05:33,203 --> 00:05:49,969\n他是我們海委會下屬的三級機關嗎?對,他的依據是什麼?海委會組織條例第幾條?國海院的組織法第幾條?第一條第一條的內容是什麼?\n\n16\n00:06:03,755 --> 00:06:29,751\n剛剛講你們海委會的組織法海委會組織法的這個第五條裡面本會之次級機關沒有國海沒有國海院只有兩個一個海巡署一個海洋保育署你現在講這個這個國家海洋研究院組織法的第一條他說海洋委員會為辦理海洋政策規劃海洋資源交入海洋沒有提到我們海委會啊\n\n17\n00:06:34,124 --> 00:06:42,416\n海洋委員會未辦理所以他是我們的三級機關嗎是嗎我們一直都這樣定位我知道你們是這樣定位的但是我們的組織辦法是不是應該調整\n\n18\n00:06:50,970 --> 00:07:14,406\n是那個報告委員喔我們在那個行政院主改以後齁只要是屬於70個局屬的部分他才會他的部會組織法會定說本部或本委員會所屬的次級機構是什麼什麼什麼什麼那麼因為海聯院他是屬於我們中央行政機關組織法上面的研究試驗等等的這些單位那這個部分在我們體系上先講到這裡啦齁這部分我認為我們的這個組織條例要要要應該要做調整啦齁這第一個第二個我們未來齁這個副主委\n\n19\n00:07:21,250 --> 00:07:45,566\n我們現在剛剛有講到我們現在100噸跟300噸現在已經發包已經招標現在正在興建當中嘛那未來我們成立這個營運中心之後我們現在的這個包括它的招標包括禮約執行都是由都是由這個國海院在做那未來它船舶完成之後它會用什麼方式來交到營運中心呢它會直接移交嗎還是會委託還是由國海院委託行政法人來營運呢\n\n20\n00:07:49,099 --> 00:08:05,728\n目前的一個方式可能會以無償借用的一個方式給用借用的對無償借用的一個方式給行政法人借用給行政法人來營運來營運對所以他未來他的這個權利還是在還是在海委會在海委會在海委會在監督\n\n21\n00:08:06,969 --> 00:08:22,596\n借用也不是委託而是借用用借用的方式所有權還是掛在海委會這個很特別因為我看到現在我沒有看到說有所謂借用的方式來營運這部分我進一步了解我們營運的相關法規最後\n\n22\n00:08:26,798 --> 00:08:44,910\n我們這個這個目前的這個條例齁我這樣隨便盤點齁我目前的條例草案裡面齁我隨便盤點就有就有大概有七項以上的法未來的這個相關授權的辦法就在我們的草案裡面這授權我們未來主管機關要訂定辦法就是說我們今天如果通過了這個通過了這個這個設置條例之後我們還有\n\n23\n00:08:47,572 --> 00:09:08,686\n至少七樣以上我現在隨便盤點大概就有七條以上的授權授權我們還會為了要制定相關的辦法這些辦法制定好我們準備好了嗎我們來得及在明年八月八月之前完成嗎我們現在已經同步都在研擬了那我們這樣的體力也是參照其他的行政法人我知道我現在來得及嗎已經在研擬了已經在研擬了因為相當多了我們我看到規劃了\n\n24\n00:09:09,807 --> 00:09:28,145\n有相關的組織設施條例裡面授權這麼多的定定辦法的條例並不多我們這個有至少7個條文以上授權你們制定辦法這部分我希望說你們能夠同步的來完成能夠趕上你們計畫中的明年8月的營運好不好好謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n15619\t22046\t主席 我們現在請副主委有請副主委委員早\n23255\t45827\t副主委早我們今天就這個國家海洋科技的營運中心設置條例我們要進行審查了那這個剛才前面幾位委員也大概針對這個我們的這個設置這樣子行政法人的相關的這些未來的權責等等有跟你進行過溝通那我這裡大概要請問就是說我們現在你能不能說明一下我們過去這樣子這麼多年\n46747\t53888\t我們現在為什麼我們海委會認為我們營運中心有設置的急迫性\n55370\t80295\t急迫性在哪裡?過去我們是怎麼做的?為什麼現在有急迫性?設置之後跟現在有哪些改變?主要是國海院有兩個中長城的計畫一個是國家船模實驗室的建造,一個是調查船一個是調查船,一個是船模實驗室這兩項功能我們現在還沒有國家營運中心我們現在沒有這樣的船模實驗室我們現在也沒有這樣的調查船那我們現在是怎麼做的?\n81235\t110297\t我們目前的船模實驗沒有那麼完整就是在一些學校裡面有船模實驗但是我們這一次建造的更完整包括安奈海的性能水槽我們現在沒有營運這個國家的這個調查船那我們現在這些海洋資訊的這些調查是怎麼做的我們目前還是有像國科會的那個實驗院的還是有一些科研船但是我們這一次是全海域的基礎調查的這樣子的我們現在沒有做全海域的基礎調查嗎有但是還是會受到一些限制現在是怎麼做的\n111198\t130307\t現在沒有營運中心是怎麼做的你這個要講我們才知道說那為什麼設置現在要設置這個行政法人是必須的報告委員那現在的話就是有一些預算那由國海院在執行那像我們目前執行的一個方式通常就是以委辦的方式委辦對委辦的方式對事實上我們現在是委辦對是委辦的方式委誰辦現在大多數委誰辦\n132568\t161196\t有些是測量公司有些是學術單位國內的還是國際的國內的那如果說是屬於要租船的話那租船的話大概會有一些科業船也可以來租用那如果說是屬於一些測會的話有時候有一些是私人的一些測會公司那如果我們未來有這個調查船的話那海委會本身就可以發揮這樣子的一個功能我覺得這個要講這個我們要對外說明清楚為什麼我們現在要做這個船舶實驗室是重要的為什麼我們現在要做國家級的自己的這個全海域的調查船這個是重要的\n161796\t178600\t這個是重要的這個前提成立我們才要我們才來說那接下來這要怎麼營運要怎麼營運之後我們才說這營運到底我們是要用公部門來營運還是用行政法人來營運對不對所以這個部分這個要先講清楚那我們現在要成立這樣子的營運中心\n183038\t210578\t來看看其他國際的國家他們有沒有做我們現在目前沒有我們國家一直過去到現在一直沒有我們現在看看國外的這些例子包括美國美國他們有一個國家科學技術政策辦公室下面設了一個國家科學技術小組委員會所以美國他是用公部門來營運這些事情美國用公部門英國也是公部門\n211778\t223478\t英國他設置一個科學技術委員會下面設一個海洋科學協調委員會他還是屬於公部門那跟我們條件最接近 鄰近我們的日本日本他\n224704\t249458\t原本也是設立公部門,原本在1971年就設置了一個海洋科學技術中心但他們在2004年把這樣的公部門的海洋科學技術中心他們把它改成行政法人在2004年提早我們21年的時間設立了這樣的行政法人這個行政法人叫做海洋地球科學技術振興機構這樣的行政法人\n253257\t278068\t那所以這個我們也看剛剛在講這個急迫性我們現在看其他國家在日本他們的這些這樣子的大型的海洋調查船日本現在目前有幾艘你們知道嗎大型的有七艘大型的有七艘中國有幾艘中國的大概六十艘以上六十艘以上那我們台灣呢\n279249\t295933\t目前沒有嗎 台灣現在目前就是以科學服務的 科研服務的話有海野 國科會下面有4艘國科會下面有4艘 還有農業服務也有那我們現在急迫 我們現在在進行我們已經進行招標 現在在做的是幾噸的300 我們現在100噸 300 100跟300 未來還有4000未來有4000我現在\n303643\t332282\t這個部分我馬上跟你討論但我在這個之前我們回到前面的問題剛才其他委員也有問到啦齁我們現在有國海院剛剛很多人有關心我們現在目前的這個這個國海院跟我們的這個營運未來要設置的營運中心他的全責我看起來全責大致上是重疊真正特殊的就是船舶實驗室跟調查船的營運嘛對不對只有這兩個其他大部分是特殊那我想請問一下副主委我們現在這個我們目前的這個國海院\n333203\t349969\t他是我們海委會下屬的三級機關嗎?對,他的依據是什麼?海委會組織條例第幾條?國海院的組織法第幾條?第一條第一條的內容是什麼?\n363755\t389751\t剛剛講你們海委會的組織法海委會組織法的這個第五條裡面本會之次級機關沒有國海沒有國海院只有兩個一個海巡署一個海洋保育署你現在講這個這個國家海洋研究院組織法的第一條他說海洋委員會為辦理海洋政策規劃海洋資源交入海洋沒有提到我們海委會啊\n394124\t402416\t海洋委員會未辦理所以他是我們的三級機關嗎是嗎我們一直都這樣定位我知道你們是這樣定位的但是我們的組織辦法是不是應該調整\n410970\t434406\t是那個報告委員喔我們在那個行政院主改以後齁只要是屬於70個局屬的部分他才會他的部會組織法會定說本部或本委員會所屬的次級機構是什麼什麼什麼什麼那麼因為海聯院他是屬於我們中央行政機關組織法上面的研究試驗等等的這些單位那這個部分在我們體系上先講到這裡啦齁這部分我認為我們的這個組織條例要要要應該要做調整啦齁這第一個第二個我們未來齁這個副主委\n441250\t465566\t我們現在剛剛有講到我們現在100噸跟300噸現在已經發包 已經招標 現在正在興建當中嘛那未來我們成立這個營運中心之後我們現在的這個包括它的招標 包括禮約執行都是由都是由這個國海院在做那未來它船舶完成之後它會用什麼方式來交到營運中心呢它會直接移交嗎 還是會委託還是由國海院委託行政法人來營運呢\n469099\t485728\t目前的一個方式可能會以無償借用的一個方式給用借用的對 無償借用的一個方式給行政法人借用給行政法人來營運來營運 對所以他未來他的這個權利還是在還是在海委會在海委會在海委會在監督\n486969\t502596\t借用也不是委託而是借用用借用的方式所有權還是掛在海委會這個很特別因為我看到現在我沒有看到說有所謂借用的方式來營運這部分我進一步了解我們營運的相關法規最後\n506798\t524910\t我們這個這個目前的這個條例齁我這樣隨便盤點齁我目前的條例草案裡面齁我隨便盤點就有就有大概有七項以上的法未來的這個相關授權的辦法就在我們的草案裡面這授權我們未來主管機關要訂定辦法就是說我們今天如果通過了這個通過了這個這個設置條例之後我們還有\n527572\t548686\t至少七樣以上我現在隨便盤點大概就有七條以上的授權授權我們還會為了要制定相關的辦法這些辦法制定好我們準備好了嗎我們來得及在明年八月八月之前完成嗎我們現在已經同步都在研擬了那我們這樣的體力也是參照其他的行政法人我知道我現在來得及嗎已經在研擬了已經在研擬了因為相當多了我們我看到規劃了\n549807\t568145\t有相關的組織設施條例裡面授權這麼多的定定辦法的條例並不多我們這個有至少7個條文以上授權你們制定辦法這部分我希望說你們能夠同步的來完成能夠趕上你們計畫中的明年8月的營運好不好好 謝謝委員\n","txt":"主席 我們現在請副主委有請副主委委員早\n副主委早我們今天就這個國家海洋科技的營運中心設置條例我們要進行審查了那這個剛才前面幾位委員也大概針對這個我們的這個設置這樣子行政法人的相關的這些未來的權責等等有跟你進行過溝通那我這裡大概要請問就是說我們現在你能不能說明一下我們過去這樣子這麼多年\n我們現在為什麼我們海委會認為我們營運中心有設置的急迫性\n急迫性在哪裡?過去我們是怎麼做的?為什麼現在有急迫性?設置之後跟現在有哪些改變?主要是國海院有兩個中長城的計畫一個是國家船模實驗室的建造,一個是調查船一個是調查船,一個是船模實驗室這兩項功能我們現在還沒有國家營運中心我們現在沒有這樣的船模實驗室我們現在也沒有這樣的調查船那我們現在是怎麼做的?\n我們目前的船模實驗沒有那麼完整就是在一些學校裡面有船模實驗但是我們這一次建造的更完整包括安奈海的性能水槽我們現在沒有營運這個國家的這個調查船那我們現在這些海洋資訊的這些調查是怎麼做的我們目前還是有像國科會的那個實驗院的還是有一些科研船但是我們這一次是全海域的基礎調查的這樣子的我們現在沒有做全海域的基礎調查嗎有但是還是會受到一些限制現在是怎麼做的\n現在沒有營運中心是怎麼做的你這個要講我們才知道說那為什麼設置現在要設置這個行政法人是必須的報告委員那現在的話就是有一些預算那由國海院在執行那像我們目前執行的一個方式通常就是以委辦的方式委辦對委辦的方式對事實上我們現在是委辦對是委辦的方式委誰辦現在大多數委誰辦\n有些是測量公司有些是學術單位國內的還是國際的國內的那如果說是屬於要租船的話那租船的話大概會有一些科業船也可以來租用那如果說是屬於一些測會的話有時候有一些是私人的一些測會公司那如果我們未來有這個調查船的話那海委會本身就可以發揮這樣子的一個功能我覺得這個要講這個我們要對外說明清楚為什麼我們現在要做這個船舶實驗室是重要的為什麼我們現在要做國家級的自己的這個全海域的調查船這個是重要的\n這個是重要的這個前提成立我們才要我們才來說那接下來這要怎麼營運要怎麼營運之後我們才說這營運到底我們是要用公部門來營運還是用行政法人來營運對不對所以這個部分這個要先講清楚那我們現在要成立這樣子的營運中心\n來看看其他國際的國家他們有沒有做我們現在目前沒有我們國家一直過去到現在一直沒有我們現在看看國外的這些例子包括美國美國他們有一個國家科學技術政策辦公室下面設了一個國家科學技術小組委員會所以美國他是用公部門來營運這些事情美國用公部門英國也是公部門\n英國他設置一個科學技術委員會下面設一個海洋科學協調委員會他還是屬於公部門那跟我們條件最接近 鄰近我們的日本日本他\n原本也是設立公部門,原本在1971年就設置了一個海洋科學技術中心但他們在2004年把這樣的公部門的海洋科學技術中心他們把它改成行政法人在2004年提早我們21年的時間設立了這樣的行政法人這個行政法人叫做海洋地球科學技術振興機構這樣的行政法人\n那所以這個我們也看剛剛在講這個急迫性我們現在看其他國家在日本他們的這些這樣子的大型的海洋調查船日本現在目前有幾艘你們知道嗎大型的有七艘大型的有七艘中國有幾艘中國的大概六十艘以上六十艘以上那我們台灣呢\n目前沒有嗎 台灣現在目前就是以科學服務的 科研服務的話有海野 國科會下面有4艘國科會下面有4艘 還有農業服務也有那我們現在急迫 我們現在在進行我們已經進行招標 現在在做的是幾噸的300 我們現在100噸 300 100跟300 未來還有4000未來有4000我現在\n這個部分我馬上跟你討論但我在這個之前我們回到前面的問題剛才其他委員也有問到啦齁我們現在有國海院剛剛很多人有關心我們現在目前的這個這個國海院跟我們的這個營運未來要設置的營運中心他的全責我看起來全責大致上是重疊真正特殊的就是船舶實驗室跟調查船的營運嘛對不對只有這兩個其他大部分是特殊那我想請問一下副主委我們現在這個我們目前的這個國海院\n他是我們海委會下屬的三級機關嗎?對,他的依據是什麼?海委會組織條例第幾條?國海院的組織法第幾條?第一條第一條的內容是什麼?\n剛剛講你們海委會的組織法海委會組織法的這個第五條裡面本會之次級機關沒有國海沒有國海院只有兩個一個海巡署一個海洋保育署你現在講這個這個國家海洋研究院組織法的第一條他說海洋委員會為辦理海洋政策規劃海洋資源交入海洋沒有提到我們海委會啊\n海洋委員會未辦理所以他是我們的三級機關嗎是嗎我們一直都這樣定位我知道你們是這樣定位的但是我們的組織辦法是不是應該調整\n是那個報告委員喔我們在那個行政院主改以後齁只要是屬於70個局屬的部分他才會他的部會組織法會定說本部或本委員會所屬的次級機構是什麼什麼什麼什麼那麼因為海聯院他是屬於我們中央行政機關組織法上面的研究試驗等等的這些單位那這個部分在我們體系上先講到這裡啦齁這部分我認為我們的這個組織條例要要要應該要做調整啦齁這第一個第二個我們未來齁這個副主委\n我們現在剛剛有講到我們現在100噸跟300噸現在已經發包 已經招標 現在正在興建當中嘛那未來我們成立這個營運中心之後我們現在的這個包括它的招標 包括禮約執行都是由都是由這個國海院在做那未來它船舶完成之後它會用什麼方式來交到營運中心呢它會直接移交嗎 還是會委託還是由國海院委託行政法人來營運呢\n目前的一個方式可能會以無償借用的一個方式給用借用的對 無償借用的一個方式給行政法人借用給行政法人來營運來營運 對所以他未來他的這個權利還是在還是在海委會在海委會在海委會在監督\n借用也不是委託而是借用用借用的方式所有權還是掛在海委會這個很特別因為我看到現在我沒有看到說有所謂借用的方式來營運這部分我進一步了解我們營運的相關法規最後\n我們這個這個目前的這個條例齁我這樣隨便盤點齁我目前的條例草案裡面齁我隨便盤點就有就有大概有七項以上的法未來的這個相關授權的辦法就在我們的草案裡面這授權我們未來主管機關要訂定辦法就是說我們今天如果通過了這個通過了這個這個設置條例之後我們還有\n至少七樣以上我現在隨便盤點大概就有七條以上的授權授權我們還會為了要制定相關的辦法這些辦法制定好我們準備好了嗎我們來得及在明年八月八月之前完成嗎我們現在已經同步都在研擬了那我們這樣的體力也是參照其他的行政法人我知道我現在來得及嗎已經在研擬了已經在研擬了因為相當多了我們我看到規劃了\n有相關的組織設施條例裡面授權這麼多的定定辦法的條例並不多我們這個有至少7個條文以上授權你們制定辦法這部分我希望說你們能夠同步的來完成能夠趕上你們計畫中的明年8月的營運好不好好 謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:15.619 --> 00:22.046\n主席我們現在請副主委有請副主委委員早\n\n00:23.255 --> 00:45.827\n副主委早我們今天就這個國家海洋科技的營運中心設置條例我們要進行審查了那這個剛才前面幾位委員也大概針對這個我們的這個設置這樣子行政法人的相關的這些未來的權責等等有跟你進行過溝通那我這裡大概要請問就是說我們現在你能不能說明一下我們過去這樣子這麼多年\n\n00:46.747 --> 00:53.888\n我們現在為什麼我們海委會認為我們營運中心有設置的急迫性\n\n00:55.370 --> 01:20.295\n急迫性在哪裡?過去我們是怎麼做的?為什麼現在有急迫性?設置之後跟現在有哪些改變?主要是國海院有兩個中長城的計畫一個是國家船模實驗室的建造,一個是調查船一個是調查船,一個是船模實驗室這兩項功能我們現在還沒有國家營運中心我們現在沒有這樣的船模實驗室我們現在也沒有這樣的調查船那我們現在是怎麼做的?\n\n01:21.235 --> 01:50.297\n我們目前的船模實驗沒有那麼完整就是在一些學校裡面有船模實驗但是我們這一次建造的更完整包括安奈海的性能水槽我們現在沒有營運這個國家的這個調查船那我們現在這些海洋資訊的這些調查是怎麼做的我們目前還是有像國科會的那個實驗院的還是有一些科研船但是我們這一次是全海域的基礎調查的這樣子的我們現在沒有做全海域的基礎調查嗎有但是還是會受到一些限制現在是怎麼做的\n\n01:51.198 --> 02:10.307\n現在沒有營運中心是怎麼做的你這個要講我們才知道說那為什麼設置現在要設置這個行政法人是必須的報告委員那現在的話就是有一些預算那由國海院在執行那像我們目前執行的一個方式通常就是以委辦的方式委辦對委辦的方式對事實上我們現在是委辦對是委辦的方式委誰辦現在大多數委誰辦\n\n02:12.568 --> 02:41.196\n有些是測量公司有些是學術單位國內的還是國際的國內的那如果說是屬於要租船的話那租船的話大概會有一些科業船也可以來租用那如果說是屬於一些測會的話有時候有一些是私人的一些測會公司那如果我們未來有這個調查船的話那海委會本身就可以發揮這樣子的一個功能我覺得這個要講這個我們要對外說明清楚為什麼我們現在要做這個船舶實驗室是重要的為什麼我們現在要做國家級的自己的這個全海域的調查船這個是重要的\n\n02:41.796 --> 02:58.600\n這個是重要的這個前提成立我們才要我們才來說那接下來這要怎麼營運要怎麼營運之後我們才說這營運到底我們是要用公部門來營運還是用行政法人來營運對不對所以這個部分這個要先講清楚那我們現在要成立這樣子的營運中心\n\n03:03.038 --> 03:30.578\n來看看其他國際的國家他們有沒有做我們現在目前沒有我們國家一直過去到現在一直沒有我們現在看看國外的這些例子包括美國美國他們有一個國家科學技術政策辦公室下面設了一個國家科學技術小組委員會所以美國他是用公部門來營運這些事情美國用公部門英國也是公部門\n\n03:31.778 --> 03:43.478\n英國他設置一個科學技術委員會下面設一個海洋科學協調委員會他還是屬於公部門那跟我們條件最接近鄰近我們的日本日本他\n\n03:44.704 --> 04:09.458\n原本也是設立公部門,原本在1971年就設置了一個海洋科學技術中心但他們在2004年把這樣的公部門的海洋科學技術中心他們把它改成行政法人在2004年提早我們21年的時間設立了這樣的行政法人這個行政法人叫做海洋地球科學技術振興機構這樣的行政法人\n\n04:13.257 --> 04:38.068\n那所以這個我們也看剛剛在講這個急迫性我們現在看其他國家在日本他們的這些這樣子的大型的海洋調查船日本現在目前有幾艘你們知道嗎大型的有七艘大型的有七艘中國有幾艘中國的大概六十艘以上六十艘以上那我們台灣呢\n\n04:39.249 --> 04:55.933\n目前沒有嗎台灣現在目前就是以科學服務的科研服務的話有海野國科會下面有4艘國科會下面有4艘還有農業服務也有那我們現在急迫我們現在在進行我們已經進行招標現在在做的是幾噸的300我們現在100噸300100跟300未來還有4000未來有4000我現在\n\n05:03.643 --> 05:32.282\n這個部分我馬上跟你討論但我在這個之前我們回到前面的問題剛才其他委員也有問到啦齁我們現在有國海院剛剛很多人有關心我們現在目前的這個這個國海院跟我們的這個營運未來要設置的營運中心他的全責我看起來全責大致上是重疊真正特殊的就是船舶實驗室跟調查船的營運嘛對不對只有這兩個其他大部分是特殊那我想請問一下副主委我們現在這個我們目前的這個國海院\n\n05:33.203 --> 05:49.969\n他是我們海委會下屬的三級機關嗎?對,他的依據是什麼?海委會組織條例第幾條?國海院的組織法第幾條?第一條第一條的內容是什麼?\n\n06:03.755 --> 06:29.751\n剛剛講你們海委會的組織法海委會組織法的這個第五條裡面本會之次級機關沒有國海沒有國海院只有兩個一個海巡署一個海洋保育署你現在講這個這個國家海洋研究院組織法的第一條他說海洋委員會為辦理海洋政策規劃海洋資源交入海洋沒有提到我們海委會啊\n\n06:34.124 --> 06:42.416\n海洋委員會未辦理所以他是我們的三級機關嗎是嗎我們一直都這樣定位我知道你們是這樣定位的但是我們的組織辦法是不是應該調整\n\n06:50.970 --> 07:14.406\n是那個報告委員喔我們在那個行政院主改以後齁只要是屬於70個局屬的部分他才會他的部會組織法會定說本部或本委員會所屬的次級機構是什麼什麼什麼什麼那麼因為海聯院他是屬於我們中央行政機關組織法上面的研究試驗等等的這些單位那這個部分在我們體系上先講到這裡啦齁這部分我認為我們的這個組織條例要要要應該要做調整啦齁這第一個第二個我們未來齁這個副主委\n\n07:21.250 --> 07:45.566\n我們現在剛剛有講到我們現在100噸跟300噸現在已經發包已經招標現在正在興建當中嘛那未來我們成立這個營運中心之後我們現在的這個包括它的招標包括禮約執行都是由都是由這個國海院在做那未來它船舶完成之後它會用什麼方式來交到營運中心呢它會直接移交嗎還是會委託還是由國海院委託行政法人來營運呢\n\n07:49.099 --> 08:05.728\n目前的一個方式可能會以無償借用的一個方式給用借用的對無償借用的一個方式給行政法人借用給行政法人來營運來營運對所以他未來他的這個權利還是在還是在海委會在海委會在海委會在監督\n\n08:06.969 --> 08:22.596\n借用也不是委託而是借用用借用的方式所有權還是掛在海委會這個很特別因為我看到現在我沒有看到說有所謂借用的方式來營運這部分我進一步了解我們營運的相關法規最後\n\n08:26.798 --> 08:44.910\n我們這個這個目前的這個條例齁我這樣隨便盤點齁我目前的條例草案裡面齁我隨便盤點就有就有大概有七項以上的法未來的這個相關授權的辦法就在我們的草案裡面這授權我們未來主管機關要訂定辦法就是說我們今天如果通過了這個通過了這個這個設置條例之後我們還有\n\n08:47.572 --> 09:08.686\n至少七樣以上我現在隨便盤點大概就有七條以上的授權授權我們還會為了要制定相關的辦法這些辦法制定好我們準備好了嗎我們來得及在明年八月八月之前完成嗎我們現在已經同步都在研擬了那我們這樣的體力也是參照其他的行政法人我知道我現在來得及嗎已經在研擬了已經在研擬了因為相當多了我們我看到規劃了\n\n09:09.807 --> 09:28.145\n有相關的組織設施條例裡面授權這麼多的定定辦法的條例並不多我們這個有至少7個條文以上授權你們制定辦法這部分我希望說你們能夠同步的來完成能夠趕上你們計畫中的明年8月的營運好不好好謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":15.619,"end":22.046,"text":"主席 我們現在請副主委有請副主委委員早"},{"start":23.255,"end":45.827,"text":"副主委早我們今天就這個國家海洋科技的營運中心設置條例我們要進行審查了那這個剛才前面幾位委員也大概針對這個我們的這個設置這樣子行政法人的相關的這些未來的權責等等有跟你進行過溝通那我這裡大概要請問就是說我們現在你能不能說明一下我們過去這樣子這麼多年"},{"start":46.747,"end":53.888,"text":"我們現在為什麼我們海委會認為我們營運中心有設置的急迫性"},{"start":55.37,"end":80.295,"text":"急迫性在哪裡?過去我們是怎麼做的?為什麼現在有急迫性?設置之後跟現在有哪些改變?主要是國海院有兩個中長城的計畫一個是國家船模實驗室的建造,一個是調查船一個是調查船,一個是船模實驗室這兩項功能我們現在還沒有國家營運中心我們現在沒有這樣的船模實驗室我們現在也沒有這樣的調查船那我們現在是怎麼做的?"},{"start":81.235,"end":110.297,"text":"我們目前的船模實驗沒有那麼完整就是在一些學校裡面有船模實驗但是我們這一次建造的更完整包括安奈海的性能水槽我們現在沒有營運這個國家的這個調查船那我們現在這些海洋資訊的這些調查是怎麼做的我們目前還是有像國科會的那個實驗院的還是有一些科研船但是我們這一次是全海域的基礎調查的這樣子的我們現在沒有做全海域的基礎調查嗎有但是還是會受到一些限制現在是怎麼做的"},{"start":111.198,"end":130.307,"text":"現在沒有營運中心是怎麼做的你這個要講我們才知道說那為什麼設置現在要設置這個行政法人是必須的報告委員那現在的話就是有一些預算那由國海院在執行那像我們目前執行的一個方式通常就是以委辦的方式委辦對委辦的方式對事實上我們現在是委辦對是委辦的方式委誰辦現在大多數委誰辦"},{"start":132.568,"end":161.196,"text":"有些是測量公司有些是學術單位國內的還是國際的國內的那如果說是屬於要租船的話那租船的話大概會有一些科業船也可以來租用那如果說是屬於一些測會的話有時候有一些是私人的一些測會公司那如果我們未來有這個調查船的話那海委會本身就可以發揮這樣子的一個功能我覺得這個要講這個我們要對外說明清楚為什麼我們現在要做這個船舶實驗室是重要的為什麼我們現在要做國家級的自己的這個全海域的調查船這個是重要的"},{"start":161.796,"end":178.6,"text":"這個是重要的這個前提成立我們才要我們才來說那接下來這要怎麼營運要怎麼營運之後我們才說這營運到底我們是要用公部門來營運還是用行政法人來營運對不對所以這個部分這個要先講清楚那我們現在要成立這樣子的營運中心"},{"start":183.038,"end":210.578,"text":"來看看其他國際的國家他們有沒有做我們現在目前沒有我們國家一直過去到現在一直沒有我們現在看看國外的這些例子包括美國美國他們有一個國家科學技術政策辦公室下面設了一個國家科學技術小組委員會所以美國他是用公部門來營運這些事情美國用公部門英國也是公部門"},{"start":211.778,"end":223.478,"text":"英國他設置一個科學技術委員會下面設一個海洋科學協調委員會他還是屬於公部門那跟我們條件最接近 鄰近我們的日本日本他"},{"start":224.704,"end":249.458,"text":"原本也是設立公部門,原本在1971年就設置了一個海洋科學技術中心但他們在2004年把這樣的公部門的海洋科學技術中心他們把它改成行政法人在2004年提早我們21年的時間設立了這樣的行政法人這個行政法人叫做海洋地球科學技術振興機構這樣的行政法人"},{"start":253.257,"end":278.068,"text":"那所以這個我們也看剛剛在講這個急迫性我們現在看其他國家在日本他們的這些這樣子的大型的海洋調查船日本現在目前有幾艘你們知道嗎大型的有七艘大型的有七艘中國有幾艘中國的大概六十艘以上六十艘以上那我們台灣呢"},{"start":279.249,"end":295.933,"text":"目前沒有嗎 台灣現在目前就是以科學服務的 科研服務的話有海野 國科會下面有4艘國科會下面有4艘 還有農業服務也有那我們現在急迫 我們現在在進行我們已經進行招標 現在在做的是幾噸的300 我們現在100噸 300 100跟300 未來還有4000未來有4000我現在"},{"start":303.643,"end":332.282,"text":"這個部分我馬上跟你討論但我在這個之前我們回到前面的問題剛才其他委員也有問到啦齁我們現在有國海院剛剛很多人有關心我們現在目前的這個這個國海院跟我們的這個營運未來要設置的營運中心他的全責我看起來全責大致上是重疊真正特殊的就是船舶實驗室跟調查船的營運嘛對不對只有這兩個其他大部分是特殊那我想請問一下副主委我們現在這個我們目前的這個國海院"},{"start":333.203,"end":349.969,"text":"他是我們海委會下屬的三級機關嗎?對,他的依據是什麼?海委會組織條例第幾條?國海院的組織法第幾條?第一條第一條的內容是什麼?"},{"start":363.755,"end":389.751,"text":"剛剛講你們海委會的組織法海委會組織法的這個第五條裡面本會之次級機關沒有國海沒有國海院只有兩個一個海巡署一個海洋保育署你現在講這個這個國家海洋研究院組織法的第一條他說海洋委員會為辦理海洋政策規劃海洋資源交入海洋沒有提到我們海委會啊"},{"start":394.124,"end":402.416,"text":"海洋委員會未辦理所以他是我們的三級機關嗎是嗎我們一直都這樣定位我知道你們是這樣定位的但是我們的組織辦法是不是應該調整"},{"start":410.97,"end":434.406,"text":"是那個報告委員喔我們在那個行政院主改以後齁只要是屬於70個局屬的部分他才會他的部會組織法會定說本部或本委員會所屬的次級機構是什麼什麼什麼什麼那麼因為海聯院他是屬於我們中央行政機關組織法上面的研究試驗等等的這些單位那這個部分在我們體系上先講到這裡啦齁這部分我認為我們的這個組織條例要要要應該要做調整啦齁這第一個第二個我們未來齁這個副主委"},{"start":441.25,"end":465.566,"text":"我們現在剛剛有講到我們現在100噸跟300噸現在已經發包 已經招標 現在正在興建當中嘛那未來我們成立這個營運中心之後我們現在的這個包括它的招標 包括禮約執行都是由都是由這個國海院在做那未來它船舶完成之後它會用什麼方式來交到營運中心呢它會直接移交嗎 還是會委託還是由國海院委託行政法人來營運呢"},{"start":469.099,"end":485.728,"text":"目前的一個方式可能會以無償借用的一個方式給用借用的對 無償借用的一個方式給行政法人借用給行政法人來營運來營運 對所以他未來他的這個權利還是在還是在海委會在海委會在海委會在監督"},{"start":486.969,"end":502.596,"text":"借用也不是委託而是借用用借用的方式所有權還是掛在海委會這個很特別因為我看到現在我沒有看到說有所謂借用的方式來營運這部分我進一步了解我們營運的相關法規最後"},{"start":506.798,"end":524.91,"text":"我們這個這個目前的這個條例齁我這樣隨便盤點齁我目前的條例草案裡面齁我隨便盤點就有就有大概有七項以上的法未來的這個相關授權的辦法就在我們的草案裡面這授權我們未來主管機關要訂定辦法就是說我們今天如果通過了這個通過了這個這個設置條例之後我們還有"},{"start":527.572,"end":548.686,"text":"至少七樣以上我現在隨便盤點大概就有七條以上的授權授權我們還會為了要制定相關的辦法這些辦法制定好我們準備好了嗎我們來得及在明年八月八月之前完成嗎我們現在已經同步都在研擬了那我們這樣的體力也是參照其他的行政法人我知道我現在來得及嗎已經在研擬了已經在研擬了因為相當多了我們我看到規劃了"},{"start":549.807,"end":568.145,"text":"有相關的組織設施條例裡面授權這麼多的定定辦法的條例並不多我們這個有至少7個條文以上授權你們制定辦法這部分我希望說你們能夠同步的來完成能夠趕上你們計畫中的明年8月的營運好不好好 謝謝委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":206,"blocks":[["沈委員發惠：（9時37分）主席，我們現在請副主委。"],["主席：有請副主委。"],["吳副主任委員美紅：委員早。"],["沈委員發惠：副主委早。我們今天就國家海洋科技營運中心設置條例進行審查，剛才前面幾位委員也大概針對設置行政法人未來的權責等等，有跟你進行溝通，我這裡大概要請問的是，你能不能說明一下，我們過去這麼多年，現在為什麼海委會認為營運中心有設置的急迫性？急迫性在哪裡？過去你們是怎麼做的，為什麼現在有急迫性？設置之後跟現在的作法有哪些改變？"],["吳副主任委員美紅：跟委員報告，主要是國海院有兩個中長程計畫，一個是國家船模實驗室的建造，一個是調查船。"],["沈委員發惠：我知道，一個是調查船、一個是船模實驗室。"],["吳副主任委員美紅：對、對，這兩個其實營運……"],["沈委員發惠：這兩項功能，我們現在還沒有國家營運中心、沒有船模實驗室也沒有調查船，我們現在是怎麼做的？"],["吳副主任委員美紅：我們目前的船模實驗沒有那麼完整，就是在一些學校裡面有船模實驗，但是我們這一次建造得更完整，包括耐海性能水槽、迴旋臂水槽等等。"],["沈委員發惠：我們現在沒有營運國家的調查船，那現在海洋資訊的調查是怎麼做的？"],["吳副主任委員美紅：我們目前還是有，像國科會實研院還是有一些科研船，但是我們這一次是全海域基礎調查的調查船。"],["沈委員發惠：我們現在沒有做全海域的基礎調查嗎？"],["吳副主任委員美紅：有，但是還是會受到一些限制。"],["沈委員發惠：那現在是怎麼做的？現在沒有營運中心是怎麼做的？這個你要講，我們才知道為什麼現在設置這個行政法人是必須的。"],["陳院長璋玲：報告委員，現在有一些預算是由國海院執行，我們目前執行的方式通常就是委辦的方式。"],["沈委員發惠：委辦？"],["陳院長璋玲：對，委辦的方式，委辦的方式會去租船……"],["沈委員發惠：對，事實上我們現在是委辦嘛！"],["陳院長璋玲：是，委辦的方式去租船。"],["沈委員發惠：委誰辦？現在大多數是委誰辦？"],["陳院長璋玲：有些是測量公司，有些是學術單位，如果有需要……"],["沈委員發惠：國內的還是國際的？"],["陳院長璋玲：國內的。如果是屬於要租船的話，大概會有一些科研船也可以來租用，如果是屬於一些測繪的話，有時候會是私人的測繪公司。如果我們未來有這個調查船，海委會本身就可以發揮這樣的功能。"],["沈委員發惠：我們要對外說明清楚，為什麼我們現在要做船模實驗室是重要的？為什麼我們現在要做國家級、自己的全海域調查船是重要的？「這個是重要的」前提成立，我們接下來才說要怎麼營運，談到要怎麼營運之後，我們才來說營運到底是要用公部門營運，還是用行政法人營運，對不對？所以這個部分要先講清楚。"],["吳副主任委員美紅：是。"],["沈委員發惠：現在要成立營運中心，我們來看看國際上其他國家有沒有做，我們目前沒有嘛，我們國家從過去到現在一直沒有。我們現在看到國外的這些例子，包括美國，美國有一個國家科學技術政策辦公室，下面設立一個海洋科學技術小組委員會，所以美國是用公部門來營運這件事情；英國也是公部門，英國設置科學技術委員會下面設立一個海洋科學協調委員會，它也是屬於公部門；跟我們條件最接近、鄰近我們的日本，日本原本也是設立在公部門，他們在1971年就設置了一個海洋科學技術中心，但他們在2004年把公部門的海洋科學技術中心改成行政法人，在2004年，他們提早我們21年的時間設立了這樣的行政法人，這個行政法人叫作海洋地球科學技術振興機構。剛剛在講這個急迫性，我們現在看到其他國家，像在日本他們擁有大型的海洋調查船，目前有幾艘，你們知道嗎？"],["陳院長璋玲：大型的有7艘。"],["沈委員發惠：大型的有7艘啦！中國有幾艘？"],["陳院長璋玲：中國的大概是60艘以上。"],["沈委員發惠：那我們臺灣呢？目前沒有嘛？"],["陳院長璋玲：臺灣目前就是以科研服務來看，國科會下面有4艘，還有農業部水試所也有。"],["沈委員發惠：我們現在已經進行招標、現在在做的是幾噸的？300？"],["陳院長璋玲：我們現在是100噸、300噸，未來還有4,000噸。"],["沈委員發惠：這個部分我馬上跟你討論，但在這個之前，我們回到前面的問題，剛才其他委員也有問到，我們現在有國海院，剛剛很多委員關心目前國海院跟未來要設置的營運中心，我看起來權責大致上是重疊，真正特殊的就是船模實驗室跟調查船的營運，對不對？只有這兩個，其他大部分是雷同。我想請問一下副主委，目前國海院是海委會下屬的三級機關嗎？它的依據是什麼？海洋委員會組織法第幾條？"],["吳副主任委員美紅：國海院組織法。"],["沈委員發惠：國海院組織法第幾條？"],["吳副主任委員美紅：第一條。"],["沈委員發惠：第一條的內容是什麼？你剛剛講海委會組織法第五條裡面「本會之次級機關」，沒有國海院，只有兩個，一個海巡署、一個海洋保育署；你現在講的國家海洋研究院組織法第一條「海洋委員會為辦理海洋政策規劃、海洋資源調查……」沒有提到海委會啊！所以它是你們的三級機關嗎？是嗎？"],["吳副主任委員美紅：對、對，人總……我們一直都這樣定位。"],["沈委員發惠：我知道你們是這樣的定位，但你們的組織辦法是不是應該要調整？"],["懷副人事長敍：報告委員，我們在行政院組改以後，只要是屬於70個局署的部分，才會在其部會組織法訂定本部或本委員會所屬的次級機構是什麼、什麼、什麼，因為海研院是屬於中央行政機關組織法上面的研究試驗等等的這些單位，這個部分在我們體制上都可以擺進去，謝謝。"],["沈委員發惠：好，因為時間的關係，先講到這裡。這部分我認為你們的組織條例應該要調整，這是第一個。第二個，副主委，剛剛有講到，我們100噸跟300噸已經發包、招標，現在正在興建當中，包括它的招標、履約執行，都是由國海院在做，未來我們成立這個營運中心，在船舶完成之後，它會用什麼方式交到營運中心？它會直接移交嗎？還是會委託，或是由國海院委託行政法人來營運？"],["吳副主任委員美紅：這個國海院有規劃。"],["陳院長璋玲：目前可能會以無償借用的方式給行政法人。"],["沈委員發惠：用借用的？"],["陳院長璋玲：對，以無償借用的方式給行政法人用。"],["沈委員發惠：借用給行政法人來營運？"],["陳院長璋玲：對。"],["沈委員發惠：所以未來它的權力還是在海委會？"],["陳院長璋玲：在海委會，海委會在監督。"],["沈委員發惠：但是你們借用？"],["陳院長璋玲：對。"],["沈委員發惠：也不是委託，而是借用，用借用的方式？"],["陳院長璋玲：對，所有權還是掛在海委會。"],["沈委員發惠：這個很特別，因為我看到現在，我沒有看到有所謂用借用的方式來營運的。"],["吳副主任委員美紅：因為我們希望所有權還是留在……"],["沈委員發惠：這個部分我再進一步了解我們營運的相關法規。"],["吳副主任委員美紅：好，我們再跟委員報告。"],["沈委員發惠：最後，在目前的條例草案裡面，我隨便盤點就有大概七項以上授權未來的主管機關要訂定辦法，也就是說我們今天如果通過了這個設置條例，我現在隨便盤點，大概就有七條以上授權海委會未來要制定相關的辦法，這些辦法的制定，你們準備好了嗎？來得及在明年8月之前完成嗎？"],["吳副主任委員美紅：這個子法我們現在已經同步在研擬了，我們這樣的體例也是參照其他的行政法人。"],["沈委員發惠：我知道，來得及嗎？"],["吳副主任委員美紅：已經在研擬了。"],["沈委員發惠：已經在研擬了？"],["吳副主任委員美紅：對，我們已經在規劃了。"],["沈委員發惠：因為相當多，我看組織設置條例裡面授權訂定這麼多辦法的並不多。"],["吳副主任委員美紅：有，草案大概初步都有。"],["沈委員發惠：我們這個至少有七個條文以上授權你們制定辦法，這部分我希望你們能夠同步完成……"],["吳副主任委員美紅：報告委員，我們都有在……"],["沈委員發惠：能夠趕上你們計畫的明年8月營運，好不好？"],["吳副主任委員美紅：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席（王委員義川代）：好，謝謝沈發惠委員。","接下來請麥玉珍委員。"],["麥委員玉珍：（9時47）主席好，有請副主委。"],["主席：請副主委。"],["吳副主任委員美紅：委員好。"],["麥委員玉珍：副主委好。目前包括中央研究院、國立成功大學、海洋大學，以及交通部航港局等單位，都有海洋調查或模擬的設備，所以請教一下，海科中心與這些單位的功能區分，還有協調分工是什麼？是否有進行資源盤點報告，避免重複投資？是否能提供具體資料？"],["吳副主任委員美紅：跟委員報告，我們事實上都有去盤點，不會有資源重疊的狀況。跟國實院下設的海科中心……我剛剛有報告，事實上他們比較是屬於學術研究，for學術研究型的個案執行部分。我們這個中心──國家海洋科技營運中心，未來主要是船模實驗室，還有調查船整體的營運管理等等，主要是這部分的功能。現在各單位有的這些船舶，我們事實上也借鏡一些國家整合海洋調查、研究船隊這樣的經驗，我們也會建立科研船的合作平臺跟資源機制，這個都有在規劃。"],["麥委員玉珍：好，你這樣子講，你再看我的PPT，是不是打臉你自己呢？你講的東西是說很平均，但是這個資料是不是打臉你自己？70%欸！這樣你講的是不是跟我們看到你們的資料不一樣呢？"],["陳院長璋玲：70%這個資料我不曉得委員是從哪邊取得的，不過在我們自己的調查裡面，事實上目前現有的科研船確實以科研單位的需求來看是不夠的。"],["麥委員玉珍：這個是依據國科會的資料，百分之百是依據國科會的資料。"],["陳院長璋玲：因為國科會的運作方式是由各學術單位提出申請，確實目前申請的……"],["麥委員玉珍：所以你們的跨部會就是這樣子跨的嗎？他們做他們的，我們做我們的，我們不知道他們怎麼樣，我只知道我的就好，這樣嗎？"],["陳院長璋玲：沒有，我們知道他們的。我的意思是說，國科會針對的是所謂學術型個人學者計畫的申請，再去做船期的安排。"],["麥委員玉珍：所以我才要問你們有沒有盤點。"],["陳院長璋玲：有。"],["麥委員玉珍：有沒有重複投資或資源重疊？每一個人做的都是一樣的話，我們政府的錢、人民的錢都是隨便花嗎？所以我希望能提供具體的資料給我。"],["吳副主任委員美紅：好。"],["麥委員玉珍：我們看到的是這樣，但是你們講的又不一樣……"],["吳副主任委員美紅：委員，我們也有去盤點。"],["麥委員玉珍：是不是就直接打臉了，對不對？"],["吳副主任委員美紅：不會，現在研究船期那個是不足的，就是整個調查船的量能是不夠的。"],["麥委員玉珍：所以你們要跟國科會跨部會去研究、去整合，看要怎麼樣去盤點，我覺得才能符合我們要設立這個中心的美意，因為海科中心採的是行政法人模式，目的在提升營運的彈性，但是過去如國研院、資策會也出現法人化後的效率未見提升、財務與人事問責模糊等問題，所以要請教中心的營運績效評估，還有機制上如何設計？第二個，是否有年度的KPI，由哪個部會主責監督？若未達成預期成果，是否有退場或重整的機制？這個部分有沒有？"],["吳副主任委員美紅：跟委員報告，未來的監督機關就是海洋委員會，剛剛委員提到的……"],["麥委員玉珍：我們要的是機制，還有……"],["吳副主任委員美紅：對，剛剛委員提到的這些機制、制度等等……"],["麥委員玉珍：設計的部分一個、一個讓我們更清楚。"],["吳副主任委員美紅：剛剛提到我們有提子法……"],["麥委員玉珍：你要設中心大家都認同，但是要讓人民覺得這個對大家是好的，我們希望完整。"],["吳副主任委員美紅：謝謝委員提醒，這部分我們現在都在草擬相關的子法當中，包括剛剛提到的這些監督的機制、制度，當然也會借鑑其他法人曾經營運的一些狀況。"],["麥委員玉珍：好，我們可以參考日本海上技術安全研究所每年發表的年度績效報告，依據科研貢獻、產官學，就是產業應用與國際合作的相關評估。我們也是要去參考別人好的東西，這怎麼樣去評估的，我們也要去做。"],["吳副主任委員美紅：年度績效報告……"],["麥委員玉珍：所以我們希望要完整一點，我們要採用這樣子的資料，才會更了解我們在做什麼。","第三題我想要問的是，我們國家當前急需掌握水下地形圖資、近岸的流場、港灣穩定模擬等資料，用以強化我們的海事安全，還有國防部署與海洋災害的預警，中心未來三年內有哪些重點科技與任務可具體展現？比如說我們如何與國防部、經濟部，還有漁業署等單位進行資料共構與成果轉化？"],["吳副主任委員美紅：跟委員報告，調查船的興建跟船模實驗室的建造是非常重要的，將來這些取得的資訊，就是剛剛委員提到的，不管是國防的安全，或者是一些生態、產業等等發展的相關資訊，還有海洋綠能等等相關的海底調查資訊，我們都會提供給相關的機關，他們就可以做非常好的運用，這個也是我們全海域基礎資料調查船要興建大、中、小三種，包括4,000噸這樣子的……"],["麥委員玉珍：你的意思是說你很滿意現在的效果嗎？"],["吳副主任委員美紅：這是未來我們要努力的目標……"],["麥委員玉珍：你也看到我在打臉，我們國家的海底地形完成率就只有這樣，低於日本、韓國，所以我們希望你們真的準備好跨部會整合、產學轉譯效果高，而且能成為為我們海洋主權與產業競爭力貢獻的中心。你們準備好了嗎？我們認為設立這個國家級的中心立意是良善的，但是我希望看到的不只是一個單位，而是一個能夠整合、協同創造產值的實體。還有，各部會要回去檢討如何跨部會，讓這個中心不只是一個單位，不是為了設而設，這樣子才真正是為我們的海洋、為大家好。我希望你可以在一個月內提供給我完整的資料，這樣我才有辦法跟別人說你做得有多好啊，不是自己誇獎就好！"],["吳副主任委員美紅：有，委員提醒的都是我們的目標。"],["麥委員玉珍：希望是這樣，好不好？好，謝謝。"],["吳副主任委員美紅：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝麥玉珍委員。","接下來請張智倫委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":318,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-36,15-1","speakers":["莊瑞雄","蘇巧慧","陳培瑜","黃國昌","沈發惠","麥玉珍","張智倫","張宏陸","王美惠","李柏毅","黃捷","林倩綺","翁曉玲","牛煦庭","吳思瑤","王鴻薇","王義川","羅智強","高金素梅","許宇甄","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":267,"meetingDate":["2025-04-17"],"gazette_id":"1143901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143901_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查行政院函請審議「國家海洋科技營運中心設置條例草案」案【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1143901_00011"}}}