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541.187, \"end\": 565.63, \"text\": \"那我想川普現在這個對等關稅已經很多行業被影響了那我們也在預測可能就在明年的話可能也會有很多的這個廠商受到影響那我希望政府啊能夠幫我們企業去想一個出路因為我們目的不是要收碳費嘛如果我們企業關了我們什麼錢都收不到那個也不是我們要的我希望環境部這邊能夠\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 541.187, \"end\": 542.048, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 542.048, \"end\": 542.168, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 542.168, \"end\": 542.588, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"川\", \"start\": 542.588, \"end\": 542.789, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"普\", \"start\": 542.789, \"end\": 543.089, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 543.089, \"end\": 543.649, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 543.649, \"end\": 544.23, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"稅\"}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 544.23, \"end\": 544.43, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 544.43, \"end\": 544.57, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"多\", 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\"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 583.802, \"end\": 583.822, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,453 --> 00:00:09,114\n主席好,我們一樣請彭部長\n\n2\n00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:34,788\n還是剛剛我看幾個委員都有提到就是陸域風電的問題陸域風電跟光電一樣一直都有很多爭議但是我們民進黨為了邁向2025非核家園的願景大量發展我們光電跟風電現在為了推動2050年達到近年排放的目標\n\n3\n00:00:39,790 --> 00:00:48,353\n光電和風電又要增加但是這反而讓台灣的環境永續跟人民的生活品質失衡我們先看一下那個影片\n\n4\n00:00:52,396 --> 00:01:20,781\n將那個拜拜那個箱啊插下去才看到快死掉了我都好暈喔我都站不穩喔跟醫生講醫生有沒有說什麼醫生說沒辦法那個政府要那個你有什麼辦法這樣他跟我這樣講我說醫生你看要怎麼辦你可以證明給我嗎他說啊那那個政府要這個你有辦法嗎這樣他就這樣講我也不清楚因為醫生也沒辦法對啊醫生說啊那個政府要那個你\n\n5\n00:01:21,702 --> 00:01:22,144\n有辦法嗎?你會贏他嗎?\n\n6\n00:01:26,437 --> 00:01:51,671\n看到這影片我們的住戶我感覺到他非常的無助那這是彰化方院的居民他就住在風機的附近他說風機帶來的眩影讓他每天都在暈去看醫生也看不好他問醫生怎麼辦剛剛我看到大家看到影片了但是部長他的家就在那邊你要他們怎麼辦我看到這個影片真的覺得蠻不忍的部長的感覺呢\n\n7\n00:01:52,530 --> 00:02:09,788\n這的確這個眩影或是低頻的噪音或是那個風切聲的確是讓居民是很不舒服但是委員這個影片我有看過我週末的時候也特別去查其實那個大概就是2009、2010那時候我們國家大概是2000年有一次大波的陸域風險的開發接下來是2009年\n\n8\n00:02:11,610 --> 00:02:33,842\n其實現在的問題就是那時候沒有完整的像現在500公尺的環坪所累積下來的那目前的確這個是一個問題所以我們為什麼說我前一陣子會主動的說如果要入獄風機的話因為台灣地小人稠所以真的要蓋的話要請開發單位要三思一定要做好處理才可以蓋我知道這是從2000年左右就開始推動\n\n9\n00:02:35,043 --> 00:02:55,148\n那當然後來我們在106年我們風力發電四年的計畫裡面政策依舊是非常明確就是邁向2025的非核家園的願景那這就是我們民進黨的神主牌之一那麼快速增加風機的政策是從這個時候開始的\n\n10\n00:02:57,248 --> 00:03:11,763\n那其實民進黨政府要做什麼,法律就會配合修什麼你們要推風電、光電基本上就算看到問題,聽到居民這個抗議我想請問部長,你還會照這個意思去做嗎?報告委員,這個第一個是風電有分離岸風電跟陸域風機那我們針對是陸域,陸域其實對...所以部長很支持嗎?\n\n11\n00:03:20,251 --> 00:03:49,190\n陸域風機如果他要蓋的話是要500公尺以上等於是直徑要1公里所以基本上在台灣要找到這樣的土地是不容易的那最好是都到離岸區會比較好那所以如果他還是要做我們政府的態度是什麼基本上他現在有非常多有極企的這種所謂陸域風機的環評都要送到環境部其實他要通過的機會是非常辛苦的對我們看到那個宏威風場剛剛被環評這個否決掉那居民都很高興\n\n12\n00:03:50,331 --> 00:04:18,033\n但是我現在看到彰化還有8座的風場正在開發數量好像還有90多隻還有我們東部也是一樣總共有58座大風機我們都知道其實大家有去過我們花東地區應該可以看到我們的海岸線是非常漂亮的也是我們台灣的一個非常美的一個美景那麼如果這個地方如果都插滿風機您覺得部長您看得下去嗎基本上\n\n13\n00:04:18,593 --> 00:04:41,078\n他雖然可能有些風機可能是超過500公尺距離這個建築物可是其實他對景觀的影響是非常的大的所以我才會特別說這一定要請開發單位我真的是個人是不支持也不鼓勵我看經濟部是不鼓勵也是不鼓勵那台灣的可是台電的網站還是在說要持續發展\n\n14\n00:04:43,439 --> 00:04:58,193\n那我看我也看到部長在媒體上講您是不支持的那我在想一個問題就是說我們能不能把這個東西就立法寫得更嚴謹一點讓這些事情都不會再發生嗎這個立法有沒有準備讓這個陸域風場走入歷史\n\n15\n00:05:07,998 --> 00:05:33,957\n這個應該是能源主管機關這個經濟部能源署的工作這不是我們環評的工作我覺得是可以大家來討論這個問題如果這個東西確實我記得其實只要每一次地方上有設這種陸域的風場的時候地方上的反彈都是非常大的那既然是這樣全台灣我想不管設在哪裡大家都會反對那如果是這樣是不是我們在這個規定上面是不是來做重研的一個審查\n\n16\n00:05:34,722 --> 00:05:58,796\n包遠其實這個因為我自己也到歐洲很多地方去看過他們的陸域風機不過人家地是大嘛非常大我們台灣跟人家不能比啊而且他們歐洲人有一個講說聽到咻咻的聲音代表錢一直進來所以他們是歡迎的所以基本上台灣如果要推動陸域風機的話其實整個重新的大家認知跟整個環境很重要那個咻咻咻的聲音錢就進來是進到誰的口袋\n\n17\n00:06:01,932 --> 00:06:15,425\n當然進到居民可以分啊所以這基本上還是我們綠能的口袋這個一定要跟這個呃民眾例如說例如說像那次公民電廠那樣的概念這樣發展會比較妥當以前是以前是250公尺嗎以前是200現在是要500嘛對不對\n\n18\n00:06:17,367 --> 00:06:45,580\n可是我看11月的時候那個方院鄉代表會就通過了決議他的這個他們規定是離建築物1000公尺就1公里那也就是半徑嘛那這樣整圈就是2公里你覺得這樣可行嗎可以這樣調整這個是屬於地方的權責他們希望有到的規模我們也都尊重但是目前我們的規範是500但是500其實在台灣已經相對非常困難了因為這樣子如果我們沒有訂一個好的標準就會造成這個企業\n\n19\n00:06:46,781 --> 00:07:09,112\n跟我們的政府在做還有居民在做對抗嘛那對地方來講也是不好的啊OK好委員這個部分我們其實這個是我們環境部在環評規範可以來進行的所以我們也可以來考慮我希望大家是統統一的標準啊不要讓地方去扛讓那個造成這地方那麼多的這個雜音跟跟那個這個這個鬥爭嘛好不好好謝謝還有現在我們看到那個碳費\n\n20\n00:07:14,622 --> 00:07:30,708\n所以我們現在川普老大常常轉個身說法就不一樣了那他現在退出巴黎氣候協定目前看起來其他各國是沒有要跟進的那對我們的影響好像不大\n\n21\n00:07:31,688 --> 00:07:53,343\n你在3月初的時候還認為說歐盟在這個CBAN上面可能會往後實施一年嘛那會延到2027年他們的新草案也還在調整但你的報告是說我們歐盟的CBAN會如期舉行而且會擴大後面門檻跟簡化流程這個對我們出口的鋼鐵\n\n22\n00:07:55,404 --> 00:08:13,871\n相關下游產品是會有影響的那現在面對的是不確定的關稅跟加收的碳費是要撥兩成比啦我看到英國本來就是在2027年才要開始實施如果接下來歐盟是因為關稅或其他因素延後上路的話或者是有更多後面我們會跟進嘛\n\n23\n00:08:15,431 --> 00:08:32,641\n我們會密切注意國際的情勢但是也跟委員說得很清楚就是國際上並沒有一個國家因此因為關稅的問題來大轉彎那歐盟目前其實他過去一開始要法案宣布之後我們看到很多的訊息是會以後一年但是目前來看的話歐盟並沒有往後延\n\n24\n00:08:33,061 --> 00:09:00,127\n只是2027年2月才要可以開始購買這個碳的憑證所以目前來看的話我們目前當然啦不排除有一些國家進行大規模氣候變遷的整個政策的調整我們會滾動式的因為產業會擔心啦就是成本增加嘛毛利減少那可能很多企業會面臨這個是不是可以經營下去的問題那2008年金融海嘯那一年我想影響最大的時間也是在一年以後\n\n25\n00:09:01,187 --> 00:09:25,630\n那我想川普現在這個對等關稅已經很多行業被影響了那我們也在預測可能就在明年的話可能也會有很多的這個廠商受到影響那我希望政府啊能夠幫我們企業去想一個出路因為我們目的不是要收碳費嘛如果我們企業關了我們什麼錢都收不到那個也不是我們要的我希望環境部這邊能夠\n\n26\n00:09:27,111 --> 00:09:43,822\n再擬定或者是多一些配套或者一些優惠措施來因應這一對這個關稅的問題引起的這些問題裡面能夠做一些調整這樣好嗎好可以委員其實我們是要幫企業順利的雙軸轉型成功這是我們要的目的啦收貪費的意義也在這邊好謝謝部長謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7453\t9114\t主席好,我們一樣請彭部長\n15400\t34788\t還是剛剛我看幾個委員都有提到就是陸域風電的問題陸域風電跟光電一樣一直都有很多爭議但是我們民進黨為了邁向2025非核家園的願景大量發展我們光電跟風電現在為了推動2050年達到近年排放的目標\n39790\t48353\t光電和風電又要增加但是這反而讓台灣的環境永續跟人民的生活品質失衡我們先看一下那個影片\n52396\t80781\t將那個拜拜那個箱啊插下去才看到快死掉了我都好暈喔我都站不穩喔跟醫生講醫生有沒有說什麼醫生說沒辦法那個政府要那個你有什麼辦法這樣他跟我這樣講我說醫生你看要怎麼辦你可以證明給我嗎他說啊那那個政府要這個你有辦法嗎這樣他就這樣講我也不清楚因為醫生也沒辦法對啊醫生說啊那個政府要那個你\n81702\t82144\t有辦法嗎?你會贏他嗎?\n86437\t111671\t看到這影片我們的住戶我感覺到他非常的無助那這是彰化方院的居民他就住在風機的附近他說風機帶來的眩影讓他每天都在暈去看醫生也看不好他問醫生怎麼辦剛剛我看到大家看到影片了但是部長他的家就在那邊你要他們怎麼辦我看到這個影片真的覺得蠻不忍的部長的感覺呢\n112530\t129788\t這的確這個眩影或是低頻的噪音或是那個風切聲的確是讓居民是很不舒服但是委員這個影片我有看過我週末的時候也特別去查其實那個大概就是2009、2010那時候我們國家大概是2000年有一次大波的陸域風險的開發接下來是2009年\n131610\t153842\t其實現在的問題就是那時候沒有完整的像現在500公尺的環坪所累積下來的那目前的確這個是一個問題所以我們為什麼說我前一陣子會主動的說如果要入獄風機的話因為台灣地小人稠所以真的要蓋的話要請開發單位要三思一定要做好處理才可以蓋我知道這是從2000年左右就開始推動\n155043\t175148\t那當然後來我們在106年我們風力發電四年的計畫裡面政策依舊是非常明確就是邁向2025的非核家園的願景那這就是我們民進黨的神主牌之一那麼快速增加風機的政策是從這個時候開始的\n177248\t191763\t那其實民進黨政府要做什麼,法律就會配合修什麼你們要推風電、光電基本上就算看到問題,聽到居民這個抗議我想請問部長,你還會照這個意思去做嗎?報告委員,這個第一個是風電有分離岸風電跟陸域風機那我們針對是陸域,陸域其實對...所以部長很支持嗎?\n200251\t229190\t陸域風機如果他要蓋的話是要500公尺以上等於是直徑要1公里所以基本上在台灣要找到這樣的土地是不容易的那最好是都到離岸區會比較好那所以如果他還是要做我們政府的態度是什麼基本上他現在有非常多有極企的這種所謂陸域風機的環評都要送到環境部其實他要通過的機會是非常辛苦的對我們看到那個宏威風場剛剛被環評這個否決掉那居民都很高興\n230331\t258033\t但是我現在看到彰化還有8座的風場正在開發數量好像還有90多隻還有我們東部也是一樣總共有58座大風機我們都知道其實大家有去過我們花東地區應該可以看到我們的海岸線是非常漂亮的也是我們台灣的一個非常美的一個美景那麼如果這個地方如果都插滿風機您覺得部長您看得下去嗎基本上\n258593\t281078\t他雖然可能有些風機可能是超過500公尺距離這個建築物可是其實他對景觀的影響是非常的大的所以我才會特別說這一定要請開發單位我真的是個人是不支持也不鼓勵我看經濟部是不鼓勵也是不鼓勵那台灣的可是台電的網站還是在說要持續發展\n283439\t298193\t那我看我也看到部長在媒體上講您是不支持的那我在想一個問題就是說我們能不能把這個東西就立法寫得更嚴謹一點讓這些事情都不會再發生嗎這個立法有沒有準備讓這個陸域風場走入歷史\n307998\t333957\t這個應該是能源主管機關這個經濟部能源署的工作這不是我們環評的工作我覺得是可以大家來討論這個問題如果這個東西確實我記得其實只要每一次地方上有設這種陸域的風場的時候地方上的反彈都是非常大的那既然是這樣全台灣我想不管設在哪裡大家都會反對那如果是這樣是不是我們在這個規定上面是不是來做重研的一個審查\n334722\t358796\t包遠其實這個因為我自己也到歐洲很多地方去看過他們的陸域風機不過人家地是大嘛非常大我們台灣跟人家不能比啊而且他們歐洲人有一個講說聽到咻咻的聲音代表錢一直進來所以他們是歡迎的所以基本上台灣如果要推動陸域風機的話其實整個重新的大家認知跟整個環境很重要那個咻咻咻的聲音錢就進來是進到誰的口袋\n361932\t375425\t當然進到居民可以分啊所以這基本上還是我們綠能的口袋這個一定要跟這個呃民眾例如說例如說像那次公民電廠那樣的概念這樣發展會比較妥當以前是以前是250公尺嗎以前是200現在是要500嘛對不對\n377367\t405580\t可是我看11月的時候那個方院鄉代表會就通過了決議他的這個他們規定是離建築物1000公尺就1公里那也就是半徑嘛那這樣整圈就是2公里你覺得這樣可行嗎可以這樣調整這個是屬於地方的權責他們希望有到的規模我們也都尊重但是目前我們的規範是500但是500其實在台灣已經相對非常困難了因為這樣子如果我們沒有訂一個好的標準就會造成這個企業\n406781\t429112\t跟我們的政府在做還有居民在做對抗嘛那對地方來講也是不好的啊OK好委員這個部分我們其實這個是我們環境部在環評規範可以來進行的所以我們也可以來考慮我希望大家是統統一的標準啊不要讓地方去扛讓那個造成這地方那麼多的這個雜音跟跟那個這個這個鬥爭嘛好不好好謝謝還有現在我們看到那個碳費\n434622\t450708\t所以我們現在川普老大常常轉個身說法就不一樣了那他現在退出巴黎氣候協定目前看起來其他各國是沒有要跟進的那對我們的影響好像不大\n451688\t473343\t你在3月初的時候還認為說歐盟在這個CBAN上面可能會往後實施一年嘛那會延到2027年他們的新草案也還在調整但你的報告是說我們歐盟的CBAN會如期舉行而且會擴大後面門檻跟簡化流程這個對我們出口的鋼鐵\n475404\t493871\t相關下游產品是會有影響的那現在面對的是不確定的關稅跟加收的碳費是要撥兩成比啦我看到英國本來就是在2027年才要開始實施如果接下來歐盟是因為關稅或其他因素延後上路的話或者是有更多後面 我們會跟進嘛\n495431\t512641\t我們會密切注意國際的情勢但是也跟委員說得很清楚就是國際上並沒有一個國家因此因為關稅的問題來大轉彎那歐盟目前其實他過去一開始要法案宣布之後我們看到很多的訊息是會以後一年但是目前來看的話歐盟並沒有往後延\n513061\t540127\t只是2027年2月才要可以開始購買這個碳的憑證所以目前來看的話我們目前當然啦不排除有一些國家進行大規模氣候變遷的整個政策的調整我們會滾動式的因為產業會擔心啦就是成本增加嘛 毛利減少那可能很多企業會面臨這個是不是可以經營下去的問題那2008年金融海嘯那一年我想影響最大的時間也是在一年以後\n541187\t565630\t那我想川普現在這個對等關稅已經很多行業被影響了那我們也在預測可能就在明年的話可能也會有很多的這個廠商受到影響那我希望政府啊能夠幫我們企業去想一個出路因為我們目的不是要收碳費嘛如果我們企業關了我們什麼錢都收不到那個也不是我們要的我希望環境部這邊能夠\n567111\t583822\t再擬定或者是多一些配套或者一些優惠措施來因應這一對這個關稅的問題引起的這些問題裡面能夠做一些調整這樣好嗎好可以委員其實我們是要幫企業順利的雙軸轉型成功這是我們要的目的啦收貪費的意義也在這邊好謝謝部長謝謝\n","txt":"主席好,我們一樣請彭部長\n還是剛剛我看幾個委員都有提到就是陸域風電的問題陸域風電跟光電一樣一直都有很多爭議但是我們民進黨為了邁向2025非核家園的願景大量發展我們光電跟風電現在為了推動2050年達到近年排放的目標\n光電和風電又要增加但是這反而讓台灣的環境永續跟人民的生活品質失衡我們先看一下那個影片\n將那個拜拜那個箱啊插下去才看到快死掉了我都好暈喔我都站不穩喔跟醫生講醫生有沒有說什麼醫生說沒辦法那個政府要那個你有什麼辦法這樣他跟我這樣講我說醫生你看要怎麼辦你可以證明給我嗎他說啊那那個政府要這個你有辦法嗎這樣他就這樣講我也不清楚因為醫生也沒辦法對啊醫生說啊那個政府要那個你\n有辦法嗎?你會贏他嗎?\n看到這影片我們的住戶我感覺到他非常的無助那這是彰化方院的居民他就住在風機的附近他說風機帶來的眩影讓他每天都在暈去看醫生也看不好他問醫生怎麼辦剛剛我看到大家看到影片了但是部長他的家就在那邊你要他們怎麼辦我看到這個影片真的覺得蠻不忍的部長的感覺呢\n這的確這個眩影或是低頻的噪音或是那個風切聲的確是讓居民是很不舒服但是委員這個影片我有看過我週末的時候也特別去查其實那個大概就是2009、2010那時候我們國家大概是2000年有一次大波的陸域風險的開發接下來是2009年\n其實現在的問題就是那時候沒有完整的像現在500公尺的環坪所累積下來的那目前的確這個是一個問題所以我們為什麼說我前一陣子會主動的說如果要入獄風機的話因為台灣地小人稠所以真的要蓋的話要請開發單位要三思一定要做好處理才可以蓋我知道這是從2000年左右就開始推動\n那當然後來我們在106年我們風力發電四年的計畫裡面政策依舊是非常明確就是邁向2025的非核家園的願景那這就是我們民進黨的神主牌之一那麼快速增加風機的政策是從這個時候開始的\n那其實民進黨政府要做什麼,法律就會配合修什麼你們要推風電、光電基本上就算看到問題,聽到居民這個抗議我想請問部長,你還會照這個意思去做嗎?報告委員,這個第一個是風電有分離岸風電跟陸域風機那我們針對是陸域,陸域其實對...所以部長很支持嗎?\n陸域風機如果他要蓋的話是要500公尺以上等於是直徑要1公里所以基本上在台灣要找到這樣的土地是不容易的那最好是都到離岸區會比較好那所以如果他還是要做我們政府的態度是什麼基本上他現在有非常多有極企的這種所謂陸域風機的環評都要送到環境部其實他要通過的機會是非常辛苦的對我們看到那個宏威風場剛剛被環評這個否決掉那居民都很高興\n但是我現在看到彰化還有8座的風場正在開發數量好像還有90多隻還有我們東部也是一樣總共有58座大風機我們都知道其實大家有去過我們花東地區應該可以看到我們的海岸線是非常漂亮的也是我們台灣的一個非常美的一個美景那麼如果這個地方如果都插滿風機您覺得部長您看得下去嗎基本上\n他雖然可能有些風機可能是超過500公尺距離這個建築物可是其實他對景觀的影響是非常的大的所以我才會特別說這一定要請開發單位我真的是個人是不支持也不鼓勵我看經濟部是不鼓勵也是不鼓勵那台灣的可是台電的網站還是在說要持續發展\n那我看我也看到部長在媒體上講您是不支持的那我在想一個問題就是說我們能不能把這個東西就立法寫得更嚴謹一點讓這些事情都不會再發生嗎這個立法有沒有準備讓這個陸域風場走入歷史\n這個應該是能源主管機關這個經濟部能源署的工作這不是我們環評的工作我覺得是可以大家來討論這個問題如果這個東西確實我記得其實只要每一次地方上有設這種陸域的風場的時候地方上的反彈都是非常大的那既然是這樣全台灣我想不管設在哪裡大家都會反對那如果是這樣是不是我們在這個規定上面是不是來做重研的一個審查\n包遠其實這個因為我自己也到歐洲很多地方去看過他們的陸域風機不過人家地是大嘛非常大我們台灣跟人家不能比啊而且他們歐洲人有一個講說聽到咻咻的聲音代表錢一直進來所以他們是歡迎的所以基本上台灣如果要推動陸域風機的話其實整個重新的大家認知跟整個環境很重要那個咻咻咻的聲音錢就進來是進到誰的口袋\n當然進到居民可以分啊所以這基本上還是我們綠能的口袋這個一定要跟這個呃民眾例如說例如說像那次公民電廠那樣的概念這樣發展會比較妥當以前是以前是250公尺嗎以前是200現在是要500嘛對不對\n可是我看11月的時候那個方院鄉代表會就通過了決議他的這個他們規定是離建築物1000公尺就1公里那也就是半徑嘛那這樣整圈就是2公里你覺得這樣可行嗎可以這樣調整這個是屬於地方的權責他們希望有到的規模我們也都尊重但是目前我們的規範是500但是500其實在台灣已經相對非常困難了因為這樣子如果我們沒有訂一個好的標準就會造成這個企業\n跟我們的政府在做還有居民在做對抗嘛那對地方來講也是不好的啊OK好委員這個部分我們其實這個是我們環境部在環評規範可以來進行的所以我們也可以來考慮我希望大家是統統一的標準啊不要讓地方去扛讓那個造成這地方那麼多的這個雜音跟跟那個這個這個鬥爭嘛好不好好謝謝還有現在我們看到那個碳費\n所以我們現在川普老大常常轉個身說法就不一樣了那他現在退出巴黎氣候協定目前看起來其他各國是沒有要跟進的那對我們的影響好像不大\n你在3月初的時候還認為說歐盟在這個CBAN上面可能會往後實施一年嘛那會延到2027年他們的新草案也還在調整但你的報告是說我們歐盟的CBAN會如期舉行而且會擴大後面門檻跟簡化流程這個對我們出口的鋼鐵\n相關下游產品是會有影響的那現在面對的是不確定的關稅跟加收的碳費是要撥兩成比啦我看到英國本來就是在2027年才要開始實施如果接下來歐盟是因為關稅或其他因素延後上路的話或者是有更多後面 我們會跟進嘛\n我們會密切注意國際的情勢但是也跟委員說得很清楚就是國際上並沒有一個國家因此因為關稅的問題來大轉彎那歐盟目前其實他過去一開始要法案宣布之後我們看到很多的訊息是會以後一年但是目前來看的話歐盟並沒有往後延\n只是2027年2月才要可以開始購買這個碳的憑證所以目前來看的話我們目前當然啦不排除有一些國家進行大規模氣候變遷的整個政策的調整我們會滾動式的因為產業會擔心啦就是成本增加嘛 毛利減少那可能很多企業會面臨這個是不是可以經營下去的問題那2008年金融海嘯那一年我想影響最大的時間也是在一年以後\n那我想川普現在這個對等關稅已經很多行業被影響了那我們也在預測可能就在明年的話可能也會有很多的這個廠商受到影響那我希望政府啊能夠幫我們企業去想一個出路因為我們目的不是要收碳費嘛如果我們企業關了我們什麼錢都收不到那個也不是我們要的我希望環境部這邊能夠\n再擬定或者是多一些配套或者一些優惠措施來因應這一對這個關稅的問題引起的這些問題裡面能夠做一些調整這樣好嗎好可以委員其實我們是要幫企業順利的雙軸轉型成功這是我們要的目的啦收貪費的意義也在這邊好謝謝部長謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.453 --> 00:09.114\n主席好,我們一樣請彭部長\n\n00:15.400 --> 00:34.788\n還是剛剛我看幾個委員都有提到就是陸域風電的問題陸域風電跟光電一樣一直都有很多爭議但是我們民進黨為了邁向2025非核家園的願景大量發展我們光電跟風電現在為了推動2050年達到近年排放的目標\n\n00:39.790 --> 00:48.353\n光電和風電又要增加但是這反而讓台灣的環境永續跟人民的生活品質失衡我們先看一下那個影片\n\n00:52.396 --> 01:20.781\n將那個拜拜那個箱啊插下去才看到快死掉了我都好暈喔我都站不穩喔跟醫生講醫生有沒有說什麼醫生說沒辦法那個政府要那個你有什麼辦法這樣他跟我這樣講我說醫生你看要怎麼辦你可以證明給我嗎他說啊那那個政府要這個你有辦法嗎這樣他就這樣講我也不清楚因為醫生也沒辦法對啊醫生說啊那個政府要那個你\n\n01:21.702 --> 01:22.144\n有辦法嗎?你會贏他嗎?\n\n01:26.437 --> 01:51.671\n看到這影片我們的住戶我感覺到他非常的無助那這是彰化方院的居民他就住在風機的附近他說風機帶來的眩影讓他每天都在暈去看醫生也看不好他問醫生怎麼辦剛剛我看到大家看到影片了但是部長他的家就在那邊你要他們怎麼辦我看到這個影片真的覺得蠻不忍的部長的感覺呢\n\n01:52.530 --> 02:09.788\n這的確這個眩影或是低頻的噪音或是那個風切聲的確是讓居民是很不舒服但是委員這個影片我有看過我週末的時候也特別去查其實那個大概就是2009、2010那時候我們國家大概是2000年有一次大波的陸域風險的開發接下來是2009年\n\n02:11.610 --> 02:33.842\n其實現在的問題就是那時候沒有完整的像現在500公尺的環坪所累積下來的那目前的確這個是一個問題所以我們為什麼說我前一陣子會主動的說如果要入獄風機的話因為台灣地小人稠所以真的要蓋的話要請開發單位要三思一定要做好處理才可以蓋我知道這是從2000年左右就開始推動\n\n02:35.043 --> 02:55.148\n那當然後來我們在106年我們風力發電四年的計畫裡面政策依舊是非常明確就是邁向2025的非核家園的願景那這就是我們民進黨的神主牌之一那麼快速增加風機的政策是從這個時候開始的\n\n02:57.248 --> 03:11.763\n那其實民進黨政府要做什麼,法律就會配合修什麼你們要推風電、光電基本上就算看到問題,聽到居民這個抗議我想請問部長,你還會照這個意思去做嗎?報告委員,這個第一個是風電有分離岸風電跟陸域風機那我們針對是陸域,陸域其實對...所以部長很支持嗎?\n\n03:20.251 --> 03:49.190\n陸域風機如果他要蓋的話是要500公尺以上等於是直徑要1公里所以基本上在台灣要找到這樣的土地是不容易的那最好是都到離岸區會比較好那所以如果他還是要做我們政府的態度是什麼基本上他現在有非常多有極企的這種所謂陸域風機的環評都要送到環境部其實他要通過的機會是非常辛苦的對我們看到那個宏威風場剛剛被環評這個否決掉那居民都很高興\n\n03:50.331 --> 04:18.033\n但是我現在看到彰化還有8座的風場正在開發數量好像還有90多隻還有我們東部也是一樣總共有58座大風機我們都知道其實大家有去過我們花東地區應該可以看到我們的海岸線是非常漂亮的也是我們台灣的一個非常美的一個美景那麼如果這個地方如果都插滿風機您覺得部長您看得下去嗎基本上\n\n04:18.593 --> 04:41.078\n他雖然可能有些風機可能是超過500公尺距離這個建築物可是其實他對景觀的影響是非常的大的所以我才會特別說這一定要請開發單位我真的是個人是不支持也不鼓勵我看經濟部是不鼓勵也是不鼓勵那台灣的可是台電的網站還是在說要持續發展\n\n04:43.439 --> 04:58.193\n那我看我也看到部長在媒體上講您是不支持的那我在想一個問題就是說我們能不能把這個東西就立法寫得更嚴謹一點讓這些事情都不會再發生嗎這個立法有沒有準備讓這個陸域風場走入歷史\n\n05:07.998 --> 05:33.957\n這個應該是能源主管機關這個經濟部能源署的工作這不是我們環評的工作我覺得是可以大家來討論這個問題如果這個東西確實我記得其實只要每一次地方上有設這種陸域的風場的時候地方上的反彈都是非常大的那既然是這樣全台灣我想不管設在哪裡大家都會反對那如果是這樣是不是我們在這個規定上面是不是來做重研的一個審查\n\n05:34.722 --> 05:58.796\n包遠其實這個因為我自己也到歐洲很多地方去看過他們的陸域風機不過人家地是大嘛非常大我們台灣跟人家不能比啊而且他們歐洲人有一個講說聽到咻咻的聲音代表錢一直進來所以他們是歡迎的所以基本上台灣如果要推動陸域風機的話其實整個重新的大家認知跟整個環境很重要那個咻咻咻的聲音錢就進來是進到誰的口袋\n\n06:01.932 --> 06:15.425\n當然進到居民可以分啊所以這基本上還是我們綠能的口袋這個一定要跟這個呃民眾例如說例如說像那次公民電廠那樣的概念這樣發展會比較妥當以前是以前是250公尺嗎以前是200現在是要500嘛對不對\n\n06:17.367 --> 06:45.580\n可是我看11月的時候那個方院鄉代表會就通過了決議他的這個他們規定是離建築物1000公尺就1公里那也就是半徑嘛那這樣整圈就是2公里你覺得這樣可行嗎可以這樣調整這個是屬於地方的權責他們希望有到的規模我們也都尊重但是目前我們的規範是500但是500其實在台灣已經相對非常困難了因為這樣子如果我們沒有訂一個好的標準就會造成這個企業\n\n06:46.781 --> 07:09.112\n跟我們的政府在做還有居民在做對抗嘛那對地方來講也是不好的啊OK好委員這個部分我們其實這個是我們環境部在環評規範可以來進行的所以我們也可以來考慮我希望大家是統統一的標準啊不要讓地方去扛讓那個造成這地方那麼多的這個雜音跟跟那個這個這個鬥爭嘛好不好好謝謝還有現在我們看到那個碳費\n\n07:14.622 --> 07:30.708\n所以我們現在川普老大常常轉個身說法就不一樣了那他現在退出巴黎氣候協定目前看起來其他各國是沒有要跟進的那對我們的影響好像不大\n\n07:31.688 --> 07:53.343\n你在3月初的時候還認為說歐盟在這個CBAN上面可能會往後實施一年嘛那會延到2027年他們的新草案也還在調整但你的報告是說我們歐盟的CBAN會如期舉行而且會擴大後面門檻跟簡化流程這個對我們出口的鋼鐵\n\n07:55.404 --> 08:13.871\n相關下游產品是會有影響的那現在面對的是不確定的關稅跟加收的碳費是要撥兩成比啦我看到英國本來就是在2027年才要開始實施如果接下來歐盟是因為關稅或其他因素延後上路的話或者是有更多後面我們會跟進嘛\n\n08:15.431 --> 08:32.641\n我們會密切注意國際的情勢但是也跟委員說得很清楚就是國際上並沒有一個國家因此因為關稅的問題來大轉彎那歐盟目前其實他過去一開始要法案宣布之後我們看到很多的訊息是會以後一年但是目前來看的話歐盟並沒有往後延\n\n08:33.061 --> 09:00.127\n只是2027年2月才要可以開始購買這個碳的憑證所以目前來看的話我們目前當然啦不排除有一些國家進行大規模氣候變遷的整個政策的調整我們會滾動式的因為產業會擔心啦就是成本增加嘛毛利減少那可能很多企業會面臨這個是不是可以經營下去的問題那2008年金融海嘯那一年我想影響最大的時間也是在一年以後\n\n09:01.187 --> 09:25.630\n那我想川普現在這個對等關稅已經很多行業被影響了那我們也在預測可能就在明年的話可能也會有很多的這個廠商受到影響那我希望政府啊能夠幫我們企業去想一個出路因為我們目的不是要收碳費嘛如果我們企業關了我們什麼錢都收不到那個也不是我們要的我希望環境部這邊能夠\n\n09:27.111 --> 09:43.822\n再擬定或者是多一些配套或者一些優惠措施來因應這一對這個關稅的問題引起的這些問題裡面能夠做一些調整這樣好嗎好可以委員其實我們是要幫企業順利的雙軸轉型成功這是我們要的目的啦收貪費的意義也在這邊好謝謝部長謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.453,"end":9.114,"text":"主席好,我們一樣請彭部長"},{"start":15.4,"end":34.788,"text":"還是剛剛我看幾個委員都有提到就是陸域風電的問題陸域風電跟光電一樣一直都有很多爭議但是我們民進黨為了邁向2025非核家園的願景大量發展我們光電跟風電現在為了推動2050年達到近年排放的目標"},{"start":39.79,"end":48.353,"text":"光電和風電又要增加但是這反而讓台灣的環境永續跟人民的生活品質失衡我們先看一下那個影片"},{"start":52.396,"end":80.781,"text":"將那個拜拜那個箱啊插下去才看到快死掉了我都好暈喔我都站不穩喔跟醫生講醫生有沒有說什麼醫生說沒辦法那個政府要那個你有什麼辦法這樣他跟我這樣講我說醫生你看要怎麼辦你可以證明給我嗎他說啊那那個政府要這個你有辦法嗎這樣他就這樣講我也不清楚因為醫生也沒辦法對啊醫生說啊那個政府要那個你"},{"start":81.702,"end":82.144,"text":"有辦法嗎?你會贏他嗎?"},{"start":86.437,"end":111.671,"text":"看到這影片我們的住戶我感覺到他非常的無助那這是彰化方院的居民他就住在風機的附近他說風機帶來的眩影讓他每天都在暈去看醫生也看不好他問醫生怎麼辦剛剛我看到大家看到影片了但是部長他的家就在那邊你要他們怎麼辦我看到這個影片真的覺得蠻不忍的部長的感覺呢"},{"start":112.53,"end":129.788,"text":"這的確這個眩影或是低頻的噪音或是那個風切聲的確是讓居民是很不舒服但是委員這個影片我有看過我週末的時候也特別去查其實那個大概就是2009、2010那時候我們國家大概是2000年有一次大波的陸域風險的開發接下來是2009年"},{"start":131.61,"end":153.842,"text":"其實現在的問題就是那時候沒有完整的像現在500公尺的環坪所累積下來的那目前的確這個是一個問題所以我們為什麼說我前一陣子會主動的說如果要入獄風機的話因為台灣地小人稠所以真的要蓋的話要請開發單位要三思一定要做好處理才可以蓋我知道這是從2000年左右就開始推動"},{"start":155.043,"end":175.148,"text":"那當然後來我們在106年我們風力發電四年的計畫裡面政策依舊是非常明確就是邁向2025的非核家園的願景那這就是我們民進黨的神主牌之一那麼快速增加風機的政策是從這個時候開始的"},{"start":177.248,"end":191.763,"text":"那其實民進黨政府要做什麼,法律就會配合修什麼你們要推風電、光電基本上就算看到問題,聽到居民這個抗議我想請問部長,你還會照這個意思去做嗎?報告委員,這個第一個是風電有分離岸風電跟陸域風機那我們針對是陸域,陸域其實對...所以部長很支持嗎?"},{"start":200.251,"end":229.19,"text":"陸域風機如果他要蓋的話是要500公尺以上等於是直徑要1公里所以基本上在台灣要找到這樣的土地是不容易的那最好是都到離岸區會比較好那所以如果他還是要做我們政府的態度是什麼基本上他現在有非常多有極企的這種所謂陸域風機的環評都要送到環境部其實他要通過的機會是非常辛苦的對我們看到那個宏威風場剛剛被環評這個否決掉那居民都很高興"},{"start":230.331,"end":258.033,"text":"但是我現在看到彰化還有8座的風場正在開發數量好像還有90多隻還有我們東部也是一樣總共有58座大風機我們都知道其實大家有去過我們花東地區應該可以看到我們的海岸線是非常漂亮的也是我們台灣的一個非常美的一個美景那麼如果這個地方如果都插滿風機您覺得部長您看得下去嗎基本上"},{"start":258.593,"end":281.078,"text":"他雖然可能有些風機可能是超過500公尺距離這個建築物可是其實他對景觀的影響是非常的大的所以我才會特別說這一定要請開發單位我真的是個人是不支持也不鼓勵我看經濟部是不鼓勵也是不鼓勵那台灣的可是台電的網站還是在說要持續發展"},{"start":283.439,"end":298.193,"text":"那我看我也看到部長在媒體上講您是不支持的那我在想一個問題就是說我們能不能把這個東西就立法寫得更嚴謹一點讓這些事情都不會再發生嗎這個立法有沒有準備讓這個陸域風場走入歷史"},{"start":307.998,"end":333.957,"text":"這個應該是能源主管機關這個經濟部能源署的工作這不是我們環評的工作我覺得是可以大家來討論這個問題如果這個東西確實我記得其實只要每一次地方上有設這種陸域的風場的時候地方上的反彈都是非常大的那既然是這樣全台灣我想不管設在哪裡大家都會反對那如果是這樣是不是我們在這個規定上面是不是來做重研的一個審查"},{"start":334.722,"end":358.796,"text":"包遠其實這個因為我自己也到歐洲很多地方去看過他們的陸域風機不過人家地是大嘛非常大我們台灣跟人家不能比啊而且他們歐洲人有一個講說聽到咻咻的聲音代表錢一直進來所以他們是歡迎的所以基本上台灣如果要推動陸域風機的話其實整個重新的大家認知跟整個環境很重要那個咻咻咻的聲音錢就進來是進到誰的口袋"},{"start":361.932,"end":375.425,"text":"當然進到居民可以分啊所以這基本上還是我們綠能的口袋這個一定要跟這個呃民眾例如說例如說像那次公民電廠那樣的概念這樣發展會比較妥當以前是以前是250公尺嗎以前是200現在是要500嘛對不對"},{"start":377.367,"end":405.58,"text":"可是我看11月的時候那個方院鄉代表會就通過了決議他的這個他們規定是離建築物1000公尺就1公里那也就是半徑嘛那這樣整圈就是2公里你覺得這樣可行嗎可以這樣調整這個是屬於地方的權責他們希望有到的規模我們也都尊重但是目前我們的規範是500但是500其實在台灣已經相對非常困難了因為這樣子如果我們沒有訂一個好的標準就會造成這個企業"},{"start":406.781,"end":429.112,"text":"跟我們的政府在做還有居民在做對抗嘛那對地方來講也是不好的啊OK好委員這個部分我們其實這個是我們環境部在環評規範可以來進行的所以我們也可以來考慮我希望大家是統統一的標準啊不要讓地方去扛讓那個造成這地方那麼多的這個雜音跟跟那個這個這個鬥爭嘛好不好好謝謝還有現在我們看到那個碳費"},{"start":434.622,"end":450.708,"text":"所以我們現在川普老大常常轉個身說法就不一樣了那他現在退出巴黎氣候協定目前看起來其他各國是沒有要跟進的那對我們的影響好像不大"},{"start":451.688,"end":473.343,"text":"你在3月初的時候還認為說歐盟在這個CBAN上面可能會往後實施一年嘛那會延到2027年他們的新草案也還在調整但你的報告是說我們歐盟的CBAN會如期舉行而且會擴大後面門檻跟簡化流程這個對我們出口的鋼鐵"},{"start":475.404,"end":493.871,"text":"相關下游產品是會有影響的那現在面對的是不確定的關稅跟加收的碳費是要撥兩成比啦我看到英國本來就是在2027年才要開始實施如果接下來歐盟是因為關稅或其他因素延後上路的話或者是有更多後面 我們會跟進嘛"},{"start":495.431,"end":512.641,"text":"我們會密切注意國際的情勢但是也跟委員說得很清楚就是國際上並沒有一個國家因此因為關稅的問題來大轉彎那歐盟目前其實他過去一開始要法案宣布之後我們看到很多的訊息是會以後一年但是目前來看的話歐盟並沒有往後延"},{"start":513.061,"end":540.127,"text":"只是2027年2月才要可以開始購買這個碳的憑證所以目前來看的話我們目前當然啦不排除有一些國家進行大規模氣候變遷的整個政策的調整我們會滾動式的因為產業會擔心啦就是成本增加嘛 毛利減少那可能很多企業會面臨這個是不是可以經營下去的問題那2008年金融海嘯那一年我想影響最大的時間也是在一年以後"},{"start":541.187,"end":565.63,"text":"那我想川普現在這個對等關稅已經很多行業被影響了那我們也在預測可能就在明年的話可能也會有很多的這個廠商受到影響那我希望政府啊能夠幫我們企業去想一個出路因為我們目的不是要收碳費嘛如果我們企業關了我們什麼錢都收不到那個也不是我們要的我希望環境部這邊能夠"},{"start":567.111,"end":583.822,"text":"再擬定或者是多一些配套或者一些優惠措施來因應這一對這個關稅的問題引起的這些問題裡面能夠做一些調整這樣好嗎好可以委員其實我們是要幫企業順利的雙軸轉型成功這是我們要的目的啦收貪費的意義也在這邊好謝謝部長謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":476,"blocks":[["邱委員鎮軍：（10時16分）主席好。請彭部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["彭部長啓明：邱委員好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：部長，剛剛我看幾個委員都有提到，就是陸域風電的問題，陸域風電跟光電一樣一直都有很多爭議，但是民進黨為了邁向2025非核家園的願景，大量發展光電跟風電，現在為了推動2050年達到淨零排放的目標，光電和風電又要增加，這反而讓臺灣的環境永續跟人民的生活品質失衡。我們先看一下影片。","（播放影片）"],["邱委員鎮軍：看到這個影片，我感覺到住戶非常的無助，這是彰化芳苑的居民，他就住在風機的附近，他說：風機帶來的眩影，讓他每天都在暈，去看醫生也看不好。他問醫生怎麼辦，大家都看到影片了。部長，但是他的家就在那邊，你要他們怎麼辦。我看到這個影片真的蠻不忍的，那部長的感覺呢？"],["彭部長啓明：這的確，眩影、低頻的噪音，或是風切聲會讓居民很不舒服。這個影片我有看過，我周末的時候也特別去查，其實那個大概是2009、2010年，我們國家大概是2000年有一次大波的陸域風機的開發，接下來是2009年，現在的問題就是那時候沒有像現在規定500公尺內要環評所累積下來的，這的確是目前的一個問題，所以為什麼我前一陣子會主動說，如果要陸域風機，因為臺灣地狹人稠，真的要蓋的話，要請開發單位要三思，一定要做好處理才可以蓋。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我知道，這是從2000年左右就開始推動，後來在106年風力發電四年的計畫裡面，政策依舊是非常明確，邁向2025非核家園的願景，這就是民進黨的神主牌之一，而快速增加風機的政策是從這個時候開始的，民進黨政府要做什麼，法律就會配合修什麼，你們要推風電、光電，基本上就算看到問題，聽到居民抗議，請問部長，你還會照你們的政策去做嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，第一個是風電有分離岸風電跟陸域風機，我們針對是陸域，陸域其實對……"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以部長很支持嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：陸域風機如果要蓋的話，要500公尺以上，等於是直徑要1公里，所以基本上在臺灣要找到這樣的土地是不容易的，最好是都到離岸去會比較好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以呢？如果它還是要做，政府的態度是什麼？"],["彭部長啓明：基本上，現在有幾起陸域風機的環評都要送到環境部，其實要通過是非常辛苦的。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我們看到鋐威風場剛剛被環評否決掉，居民都很高興，但是我現在看到彰化還有8座風場正在開發，數量好像還有九十多支，還有東部也是一樣，總共有58座大風機。我們都知道，其實大家有去過花東地區，應該可以看到海岸線是非常漂亮的，也是臺灣一個非常美的美景，如果這個地方都插滿風機，部長看得下去嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：基本上雖然可能有些風機距離建築物是超過500公尺，可是其實它對景觀的影響是非常大的，所以我才會特別說這一定要請開發單位……我個人真的是不支持也不鼓勵這樣的開發。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我看經濟部是不鼓勵嘛？"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["邱委員鎮軍：也是不鼓勵，可是台電的網站還是說要持續發展，我也看到部長在媒體上講，您是不支持的。那我再想一個問題就是說，我們能不能把這個東西立法，寫得更嚴謹一點，這些事情就不會再發生。"],["彭部長啓明：這個立法……"],["邱委員鎮軍：有沒有準備讓陸域風場走入歷史？"],["彭部長啓明：這個應該是能源主管機關經濟部能源署的工作，這不是我們環評的工作。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我覺得大家可以來討論這個問題。我記得其實只要每一次地方上有設這種陸域風場的時候，地方上的反彈都是非常大的，既然是這樣，我想全臺灣不管設在哪裡大家都會反對，如果是這樣，我們在規定上面是不是從嚴審查？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，因為我自己也到歐洲很多地方去看過陸域風機，不過人家的特性就是……"],["邱委員鎮軍：人家地大嘛！"],["彭部長啓明：非常大，非常大，所以……"],["邱委員鎮軍：臺灣跟人家不能比啊！"],["彭部長啓明：對，而且歐洲人有講說聽到咻咻的聲音，代表錢一直進來，所以他們是歡迎的。基本上，臺灣如果要推動陸域風機，其實整個大家的重新認知跟整個環境都重要。"],["邱委員鎮軍：部長，我剛才聽到你說咻咻咻的聲音錢就進來，是進到誰的口袋？"],["彭部長啓明：居民可以分啊！所以這基本上……"],["邱委員鎮軍：還是綠能業者的口袋？"],["彭部長啓明：這個一定要跟民眾……例如類似公民電廠那樣的概念，這樣發展會比較妥當。"],["邱委員鎮軍：以前是250公尺？"],["彭部長啓明：以前是250。"],["邱委員鎮軍：現在設到500，對不對？可是我看11月芳苑鄉代表會通過了決議，他們規定離建築物1,000公尺，就1公里，也就是半徑，這樣整圈就是2公里，你覺得這樣可行嗎？可以這樣調整嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：這個是屬於地方的權責，他們希望到這個規模，我們也都尊重，但是目前我們的規範是500公尺，但是500公尺其實在臺灣已經相對非常困難了。"],["邱委員鎮軍：如果我們沒有訂一個好的標準，就會造成企業跟政府還有居民在對抗，對地方來講也是不好的。"],["彭部長啓明：OK，委員，這個部分其實是環境部在環評規範可以來進行的，所以我們也可以來考慮研議加嚴。"],["邱委員鎮軍：希望大家就是統一的標準，不要讓地方去扛，造成地方那麼多的雜音跟鬥爭，好不好？"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝。"],["邱委員鎮軍：還有，我們看到碳費，現在川普老大常常轉個身說法就不一樣了，他退出巴黎氣候協定，目前看起來其他各國是沒有要跟進的，對我們的影響好像不大，您在3月初還認為歐盟在CBAM上面可能會往後實施一年，會延到2027年，他們的新草案也還在調整，但你的報告是說歐盟的CBAM會如期舉行，而且會擴大豁免門檻跟簡化流程，這個對我們出口的鋼鐵及相關下游的產品是會有影響的。現在面對不確定的關稅跟加收的碳費，等於要剝兩層皮，我看到英國本來就是在2027年才要開始實施，如果接下來歐盟因為關稅或其他因素延後上路的話，或者是有更多豁免，我們會跟進嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：我們會密切注意國際的情勢，但是也跟委員委員說得很清楚就是說，國際上並沒有一個國家因為關稅的問題來大轉彎，那歐盟其實過去一開始法案宣布之後，我們看到很多的訊息是會延後一年，但是目前來看的話，歐盟並沒有往後延，只是2027年2月才可以開始購買碳的憑證，所以不排除有一些國家進行大規模氣候變遷的政策調整，我們會滾動式的來……"],["邱委員鎮軍：因為產業會擔心啦！就是成本增加、毛利減少，可能很多企業會面臨是不是可以經營下去的問題。2008年金融海嘯那一年，我想影響最大的時間也是在一年以後，我想川普現在的對等關稅已經很多行業被影響了，那我們也在預測可能明年也會有很多廠商受到影響，我希望政府能夠幫企業去想一個出路，因為我們的目的不是要收碳費。"],["彭部長啓明：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：如果企業關了，我們什麼錢都收不到。"],["彭部長啓明：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那個也不是我們要的，我希望環境部能夠再擬定或者是多一些配套或者是一些優惠措施來因應關稅引起的這些問題，並能夠做一些調整，這樣好嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：好，可以。委員，其實我們是要幫企業順利的雙軸轉型成功，這是我們要的目的，收碳費的意義也在這邊。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，謝謝部長。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝邱委員、謝謝部長。","廖偉翔委員詢答結束之後，我們休息10分鐘，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":512,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-6","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","盧縣一","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","涂權吉","林淑芬","黃秀芳","翁曉玲","洪孟楷","王正旭","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳培瑜","張啓楷","楊曜","陳瑩","蘇清泉","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":427,"meetingDate":["2025-04-17"],"gazette_id":"1143801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部部長、經濟部、外交部就「因應美國退出巴黎氣候協定並提出對等關稅，對國內\n產業淨零轉型造成衝擊」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、邀請環境部部長、勞動部、教育部、經\n濟部針對「國內校園、賣場及工作場域之室內空氣污染物管理及防制精進作為」進行專題報告，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143801_00007"}}}