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\"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,894 --> 00:00:08,943\n謝謝主席我們有請副主委副主委請\n\n2\n00:00:12,549 --> 00:00:37,919\n部主委好我想本席要先肯定我們海委會的一個努力在我們月初的時候通過了海巡軍職薪資待遇跟國軍同步這樣去做提升讓我們海巡起薪也達到四萬塊我相信將近有九千位的集成士官兵來受惠這對於我們長年在第一線守護海域保護人民的海巡兄弟這個是一季的一個強心針\n\n3\n00:00:39,620 --> 00:00:57,726\n但是本席在這個地方也要特別提出來另一個急迫的一個問題就是說我們在去年警消還有移民署還有空勤這個都是有夜間危險的一個勤務的一個津貼\n\n4\n00:00:59,666 --> 00:01:20,318\n對於我們海巡弟兄來講的話,深夜為勞性的一個勤務的一個補貼啊,到現在還是空白。我不曉得你們的看法是怎麼樣啦。諸位已經講過說,你們說這個是未來的一個目標啦,但是這個聽起來就讓人就覺得,沒有負理由聽起來都蒼白又無力啦。\n\n5\n00:01:21,098 --> 00:01:39,572\n因為我都一直覺得說你台海局勢如果越緊張啊我們海巡面對了其實說實在話啦最緊張的就是共軍啦那不分之後又這樣子給你挑釁的話那你這個共軍或者中國的海軍或者那一些這個亂七八糟的船\n\n6\n00:01:40,413 --> 00:02:00,732\n他也不會只有挑白天來啊他晚上也會來啊所以你海巡的弟兄是不分白天跟黑夜在巡訪冒著這樣深夜的一個風浪頂著這個風險這個風險值極高的一個勤務啊卻沒有這個配套補貼的一個制度啊我覺得這個是實質的不對等布小林的看法怎麼樣\n\n7\n00:02:01,598 --> 00:02:27,377\n我就是跟委員報告其實管主委對這個部分就誠如他所說的啦其實他非常努力的在爭取啦那我們對同仁的權益尤其是剛剛提到的這些深夜圍牢的這個津貼的部分希望可以得到院裡面還有你們規劃了沒有我們有規劃有規劃可以請我們副主長報告委員非常感謝委員的關心那目前跟我們仁總在持續溝通協調中\n\n8\n00:02:30,212 --> 00:02:47,771\n這個其實海巡弟兄情務其實非常的一個繁重你說不只是守海其實守海就是在守國他們同時肩負的你說邊境的一個巡防海上的執法還有你看我們海邊那個地方其實都是一些災難的一個救援多重的這樣的一個任務\n\n9\n00:02:49,272 --> 00:03:16,693\n海巡過去海委會過去對人員這個權益相當於重視我們都是去肯定但是我們希望這一塊盡速到位這個變成一個制度的一個黑影這不對很努力的在爭取這一塊跟人種要努力啦好不好那我針對今天這麼多委員一直在提到我們今天這個海洋科技的一個資源整合的問題我相信你們也聽到很多\n\n10\n00:03:18,238 --> 00:03:40,539\n機關重疊的問題很多的計畫像我們今天在審這個立法的一個草案的一個立法的一個目的你最主要是強化國家整體海洋的科技的一個量能你像比如說你這個第三條裡面就列舉了海洋調查設施管理人才培育國際合作等七大項的一個業務但是我也注意到\n\n11\n00:03:40,999 --> 00:04:00,856\n你去看我們國家研究院其實早就設有台灣海洋科技研究中心那你說從它的主要任務從平台的建構到研究船的維運人才培育跟草案所提到的新中心業務其實這個都你看高度的重疊啦真的是高度的一個重疊啦所以我要請你做說明的就是說\n\n12\n00:04:02,277 --> 00:04:23,151\n為什麼已經在那個國衛院中心的情況之下我們還需要再設立一個新的國家海洋科技營運中心我們擔心的就是說你這個人力跟資源重複的一個配置的問題其實大家更擔心的啦我私底下在問啦更擔心的是你只是多了一個可以申請計畫的一個法人單位而已啦簡單說明\n\n13\n00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:50,080\n國海院下設的這幾個重新事實上都是比較政策研究型的這樣子的一些個單位那我們這一次的這個科技調查中心海洋的這個事實上他很重點在傳模實驗室跟未來整個國家調查團隊的營運管理功能還有這些專業的人才的培育跟留才這個是他會非常不同於現在國海院在處理的業務的面向\n\n14\n00:04:51,069 --> 00:05:18,493\n我們最擔心的是什麼呢其實你多了一個單位如果多一份力量那是好事啊可是你如果多了一個單位只是分散掉而已那其實就是無濟於事啦所以我真正想請教的啊你說以目前你看的就是說你看台灣目前涉及海洋的學術跟科研單位就那麼多海大中山城大還有這個國研院船舶中心各部位海洋計畫現在這一些啊各做各的啦\n\n15\n00:05:19,989 --> 00:05:45,456\n你互不相通甚至於互相在搶人搶船搶人搶資源這個常常大家是有耳聞的那就是說這次設立中心是不是真正具備有統籌協調的一個實權你未來研究船的一個調度實驗設施的維運還有資料的整合跟管理是不是能夠集中到這個中心來做一個平台那如果變成一個申請的窗口的話要怎麼做\n\n16\n00:05:48,045 --> 00:06:12,707\n我們最擔心的是這個啦你這科研的資源你不能各吹各的海風你中心設立以後應該是你應該是一個羅盤應該是一個舵手應該是一個整合者要不然大家小乖大家像這個樣子而已這個要特別了尤其你剛提到留財要留住人才其實我們真的我們以現在你這個制度你可以留住人才嗎\n\n17\n00:06:13,851 --> 00:06:38,127\n你要留住人才就很簡單啊你第一個你的薪水是多少啊你的制度到底有沒有給他保障啊你的升遷你的升遷的制度是怎麼樣啊那這一些你很難看你們草創階段啊看得出來啊一個你看這個我們現在啊海洋科系的你畢業後兩條路嘛對吧做科研嘛不然要走準嘛走準你要三伏一戶多少錢你知道嗎像萬海跟長榮的多少你知道嗎十八萬\n\n18\n00:06:42,734 --> 00:06:52,882\n你這趴生要用多少來之後大家計畫做一做計畫結束走掉了你說叫他繼續留下來繼續留下來他會覺得我也沒有升遷的管道\n\n19\n00:06:53,872 --> 00:07:17,118\n我薪水又不夠多大家學到經驗以後酸這個對他們到底是有沒有吸引力也就是說我們目前科研體系根本沒有辦法提供相對應的流財的一個誘因所以說你要流財育財要生財你這個機制如果沒有先做好的話你這個報紙中心是人才的流動站\n\n20\n00:07:18,118 --> 00:07:33,979\n我們要把它變成是人採的基地培育的基地這樣才對啊所以我可以理解我們中興要採比較彈性的聘用制度但是如果說你只有這樣的短期契約沒有升遷的階梯甚至於沒有績效的獎勵薪資又缺乏彈性\n\n21\n00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:57,671\n這個常常會變成一個終極戰這個我提出來要特別特別我們海委會這邊要特別去留意你看你今年海洋科技專案補助計畫擴編到7500萬7500萬對學界是一個鼓舞但是研究計畫做完人走了成果也跟著流失了你補助這些都是短期的而已制度才是一個關鍵\n\n22\n00:08:00,453 --> 00:08:13,127\n這個副主委我是覺得剛好謝謝委員提醒我們都有往這個方面包括留財怎麼樣為了能夠把人才留在這個中心裡面對我就跟你說你情緒多你講不出來情緒多你講話好比你講都不會比的你只說要留財來簡單做一個回應\n\n23\n00:08:21,397 --> 00:08:46,143\n我們現在目前是比照教育人員生活條例還有很多的獎金制度那船員的部分會比照一般外面的船員的一個薪資是啊所以誘因在哪裡你們認為這個誘因就夠了我覺得誘因來講除了薪水以外還有包括它是屬於公法的行政法的我覺得相對來講它的一個工作上的穩定性確實也會吸引到一些造船相關系所的一些學生\n\n24\n00:08:47,143 --> 00:09:14,022\n因為我們有問過我們有去做一些survey啦當然他們也期待到業界啦不過這個全職業本來都是大家人主要的選定啦那當然我們希望說我們這個制度行李料這個單位可以行李料可以去我們跟你這樣提出問題是叫你們要未雨綢繆啊不然你設計這個中心要重疊性的要幹什麼你涉及到如果說搶資源的啦說一艘船啦你要決定要給誰啦\n\n25\n00:09:15,370 --> 00:09:43,261\n你到最後什麼人要處理你這個中心有沒有辦法做決定當最後的一個仲裁者所以我都覺得這個大家要誠實去做一個面對先把問題先提出來最後一個問題你中心可能會涉及到機敏性的資訊的問題如何去把關關鍵人員的一個禁用我看你們今天早上主委也去提到還有會這邊好像也有在中國有居住權的\n\n26\n00:09:46,667 --> 00:10:03,724\n你們現在清查出來是幾位清查有三位是在中國有居住證他是從小因為父親是台商所以從小就有居住證在那邊成長但是在招募我們志願士兵之後他都已經完成申請撤銷\n\n27\n00:10:04,685 --> 00:10:22,035\n那所以他現在從事的是士兵都是願意士兵路上的還是海上的暗巡路上暗巡那還好啊你像譬如說我們現在以現在來看的話研發單位或者艦艇或者情收或者直通或者新型的一個武器的\n\n28\n00:10:22,495 --> 00:10:47,311\n那你如果說在對讓這些中國有居住證的人我們的民眾還是心裡頭比較不安心啦所以國安部門以後這一塊啊你們說禁用人員你們要做考核你要怎麼考核你是一個法人欸那是不是也比照跟國安單位你要不要考核你不能跟人家說我調查你有沒有犯罪紀錄沒有做過三次看有沒有犯罪的沒有只能讓父子同盟起來對對的\n\n29\n00:10:52,174 --> 00:11:13,979\n這個就比較草率啦是不是也可以跟國安單位這個地方啊你們要好好的去研擬這個制度的一個創建剛開始的時候就要非常謹慎人員的經驗我們非常嚴謹那將來也會有特殊查核的部分我們會跟安全單位來合作請安全單位來協助這個都有限在這樣的規劃當中這個一定要規劃得非常謹慎啦好不好這不能開玩笑啦\n\n30\n00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:38,651\n那個夜間的危老人家你說只有警察有消防有空情有漁民署有真正每個晚上不分白天作業晚上反而是最危險這個我們的整個海巡弟兄反而沒有很奇怪趕快把它補起來好不好好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4894\t8943\t謝謝主席 我們有請副主委副主委請\n12549\t37919\t部主委好我想本席要先肯定我們海委會的一個努力在我們月初的時候通過了海巡軍職薪資待遇跟國軍同步這樣去做提升讓我們海巡起薪也達到四萬塊我相信將近有九千位的集成士官兵來受惠這對於我們長年在第一線守護海域保護人民的海巡兄弟這個是一季的一個強心針\n39620\t57726\t但是本席在這個地方也要特別提出來另一個急迫的一個問題就是說我們在去年警消還有移民署還有空勤這個都是有夜間危險的一個勤務的一個津貼\n59666\t80318\t對於我們海巡弟兄來講的話,深夜為勞性的一個勤務的一個補貼啊,到現在還是空白。我不曉得你們的看法是怎麼樣啦。諸位已經講過說,你們說這個是未來的一個目標啦,但是這個聽起來就讓人就覺得,沒有負理由聽起來都蒼白又無力啦。\n81098\t99572\t因為我都一直覺得說你台海局勢如果越緊張啊我們海巡面對了其實說實在話啦最緊張的就是共軍啦那不分之後又這樣子給你挑釁的話那你這個共軍或者中國的海軍或者那一些這個亂七八糟的船\n100413\t120732\t他也不會只有挑白天來啊他晚上也會來啊所以你海巡的弟兄是不分白天跟黑夜在巡訪冒著這樣深夜的一個風浪頂著這個風險這個風險值極高的一個勤務啊卻沒有這個配套補貼的一個制度啊我覺得這個是實質的不對等布小林的看法怎麼樣\n121598\t147377\t我就是跟委員報告其實管主委對這個部分就誠如他所說的啦其實他非常努力的在爭取啦那我們對同仁的權益尤其是剛剛提到的這些深夜圍牢的這個津貼的部分希望可以得到院裡面還有你們規劃了沒有我們有規劃有規劃可以請我們副主長報告委員非常感謝委員的關心那目前跟我們仁總在持續溝通協調中\n150212\t167771\t這個其實海巡弟兄情務其實非常的一個繁重你說不只是守海 其實守海就是在守國他們同時肩負的你說邊境的一個巡防 海上的執法還有你看我們海邊那個地方 其實都是一些災難的一個救援多重的這樣的一個任務\n169272\t196693\t海巡過去 海委會過去對人員這個權益相當於重視 我們都是去肯定但是我們希望這一塊盡速到位這個變成一個制度的一個黑影 這不對很努力的在爭取這一塊 跟人種要努力啦 好不好那我針對今天這麼多委員一直在提到我們今天這個海洋科技的一個資源整合的問題我相信你們也聽到很多\n198238\t220539\t機關重疊的問題很多的計畫像我們今天在審這個立法的一個草案的一個立法的一個目的你最主要是強化國家整體海洋的科技的一個量能你像比如說你這個第三條裡面就列舉了海洋調查設施管理人才培育國際合作等七大項的一個業務但是我也注意到\n220999\t240856\t你去看我們國家研究院其實早就設有台灣海洋科技研究中心那你說從它的主要任務從平台的建構到研究船的維運人才培育跟草案所提到的新中心業務其實這個都你看高度的重疊啦真的是高度的一個重疊啦所以我要請你做說明的就是說\n242277\t263151\t為什麼已經在那個國衛院中心的情況之下我們還需要再設立一個新的國家海洋科技營運中心我們擔心的就是說你這個人力跟資源重複的一個配置的問題其實大家更擔心的啦我私底下在問啦更擔心的是你只是多了一個可以申請計畫的一個法人單位而已啦簡單說明\n265920\t290080\t國海院下設的這幾個重新事實上都是比較政策研究型的這樣子的一些個單位那我們這一次的這個科技調查中心海洋的這個事實上他很重點在傳模實驗室跟未來整個國家調查團隊的營運管理功能還有這些專業的人才的培育跟留才這個是他會非常不同於現在國海院在處理的業務的面向\n291069\t318493\t我們最擔心的是什麼呢其實你多了一個單位如果多一份力量那是好事啊可是你如果多了一個單位只是分散掉而已那其實就是無濟於事啦所以我真正想請教的啊你說以目前你看的就是說你看台灣目前涉及海洋的學術跟科研單位就那麼多海大中山城大還有這個國研院船舶中心各部位海洋計畫現在這一些啊各做各的啦\n319989\t345456\t你互不相通甚至於互相在搶人搶船搶人搶資源這個常常大家是有耳聞的那就是說這次設立中心是不是真正具備有統籌協調的一個實權你未來研究船的一個調度實驗設施的維運還有資料的整合跟管理是不是能夠集中到這個中心來做一個平台那如果變成一個申請的窗口的話要怎麼做\n348045\t372707\t我們最擔心的是這個啦你這科研的資源你不能各吹各的海風你中心設立以後應該是你應該是一個羅盤應該是一個舵手應該是一個整合者要不然大家小乖 大家像這個樣子而已這個要特別了 尤其你剛提到留財 要留住人才其實我們真的我們以現在你這個制度你可以留住人才嗎\n373851\t398127\t你要留住人才就很簡單啊你第一個你的薪水是多少啊你的制度到底有沒有給他保障啊你的升遷你的升遷的制度是怎麼樣啊那這一些你很難看你們草創階段啊看得出來啊一個你看這個我們現在啊海洋科系的你畢業後 兩條路嘛 對吧做科研嘛 不然要走準嘛走準 你要三伏一戶多少錢你知道嗎 像萬海跟長榮的多少你知道嗎 十八萬\n402734\t412882\t你這趴生要用多少來之後大家計畫做一做計畫結束 走掉了你說叫他繼續留下來繼續留下來他會覺得我也沒有升遷的管道\n413872\t437118\t我薪水又不夠多大家學到經驗以後 酸這個對他們到底是有沒有吸引力也就是說我們目前科研體系根本沒有辦法提供相對應的流財的一個誘因所以說你要流財 育財 要生財你這個機制如果沒有先做好的話你這個報紙中心是人才的流動站\n438118\t453979\t我們要把它變成是人採的基地培育的基地這樣才對啊所以我可以理解我們中興要採比較彈性的聘用制度但是如果說你只有這樣的短期契約沒有升遷的階梯甚至於沒有績效的獎勵薪資又缺乏彈性\n455680\t477671\t這個常常會變成一個終極戰這個我提出來要特別特別我們海委會這邊要特別去留意你看你今年海洋科技專案補助計畫擴編到7500萬7500萬對學界是一個鼓舞但是研究計畫做完人走了成果也跟著流失了你補助這些都是短期的而已制度才是一個關鍵\n480453\t493127\t這個副主委我是覺得剛好謝謝委員提醒我們都有往這個方面包括留財怎麼樣為了能夠把人才留在這個中心裡面對我就跟你說你情緒多你講不出來情緒多你講話好比你講都不會比的你只說要留財來 簡單做一個回應\n501397\t526143\t我們現在目前是比照教育人員生活條例還有很多的獎金制度那船員的部分會比照一般外面的船員的一個薪資是啊 所以誘因在哪裡你們認為這個誘因就夠了我覺得誘因來講除了薪水以外還有包括它是屬於公法的行政法的我覺得相對來講它的一個工作上的穩定性確實也會吸引到一些造船相關系所的一些學生\n527143\t554022\t因為我們有問過 我們有去做一些survey啦當然他們也期待到業界啦不過這個全職業本來都是大家人主要的選定啦那當然我們希望說我們這個制度 行李料 這個單位可以行李料可以去我們跟你這樣提出問題是叫你們要未雨綢繆啊不然你設計這個中心要重疊性的要幹什麼你涉及到如果說搶資源的啦說一艘船啦 你要決定要給誰啦\n555370\t583261\t你到最後什麼人要處理你這個中心有沒有辦法做決定當最後的一個仲裁者所以我都覺得這個大家要誠實去做一個面對先把問題先提出來最後一個問題你中心可能會涉及到機敏性的資訊的問題如何去把關關鍵人員的一個禁用我看你們今天早上主委也去提到還有會這邊好像也有在中國有居住權的\n586667\t603724\t你們現在清查出來是幾位清查有三位是在中國有居住證他是從小因為父親是台商所以從小就有居住證在那邊成長但是在招募我們志願士兵之後他都已經完成申請撤銷\n604685\t622035\t那所以他現在從事的是士兵都是願意士兵路上的還是海上的暗巡路上暗巡那還好啊你像譬如說我們現在以現在來看的話研發單位或者艦艇或者情收或者直通或者新型的一個武器的\n622495\t647311\t那你如果說在對讓這些中國有居住證的人我們的民眾還是心裡頭比較不安心啦所以國安部門以後這一塊啊你們說禁用人員你們要做考核 你要怎麼考核你是一個法人欸那是不是也比照跟國安單位你要不要考核 你不能跟人家說我調查你有沒有犯罪紀錄沒有做過三次 看有沒有犯罪的沒有 只能讓父子同盟起來對對的\n652174\t673979\t這個就比較草率啦是不是也可以跟國安單位這個地方啊你們要好好的去研擬這個制度的一個創建剛開始的時候就要非常謹慎人員的經驗我們非常嚴謹那將來也會有特殊查核的部分我們會跟安全單位來合作請安全單位來協助這個都有限在這樣的規劃當中這個一定要規劃得非常謹慎啦好不好這不能開玩笑啦\n680120\t698651\t那個夜間的危老人家 你說只有警察有 消防有 空情有 漁民署有真正每個晚上不分白天作業 晚上反而是最危險這個我們的整個海巡弟兄反而沒有很奇怪 趕快把它補起來好不好好 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們有請副主委副主委請\n部主委好我想本席要先肯定我們海委會的一個努力在我們月初的時候通過了海巡軍職薪資待遇跟國軍同步這樣去做提升讓我們海巡起薪也達到四萬塊我相信將近有九千位的集成士官兵來受惠這對於我們長年在第一線守護海域保護人民的海巡兄弟這個是一季的一個強心針\n但是本席在這個地方也要特別提出來另一個急迫的一個問題就是說我們在去年警消還有移民署還有空勤這個都是有夜間危險的一個勤務的一個津貼\n對於我們海巡弟兄來講的話,深夜為勞性的一個勤務的一個補貼啊,到現在還是空白。我不曉得你們的看法是怎麼樣啦。諸位已經講過說,你們說這個是未來的一個目標啦,但是這個聽起來就讓人就覺得,沒有負理由聽起來都蒼白又無力啦。\n因為我都一直覺得說你台海局勢如果越緊張啊我們海巡面對了其實說實在話啦最緊張的就是共軍啦那不分之後又這樣子給你挑釁的話那你這個共軍或者中國的海軍或者那一些這個亂七八糟的船\n他也不會只有挑白天來啊他晚上也會來啊所以你海巡的弟兄是不分白天跟黑夜在巡訪冒著這樣深夜的一個風浪頂著這個風險這個風險值極高的一個勤務啊卻沒有這個配套補貼的一個制度啊我覺得這個是實質的不對等布小林的看法怎麼樣\n我就是跟委員報告其實管主委對這個部分就誠如他所說的啦其實他非常努力的在爭取啦那我們對同仁的權益尤其是剛剛提到的這些深夜圍牢的這個津貼的部分希望可以得到院裡面還有你們規劃了沒有我們有規劃有規劃可以請我們副主長報告委員非常感謝委員的關心那目前跟我們仁總在持續溝通協調中\n這個其實海巡弟兄情務其實非常的一個繁重你說不只是守海 其實守海就是在守國他們同時肩負的你說邊境的一個巡防 海上的執法還有你看我們海邊那個地方 其實都是一些災難的一個救援多重的這樣的一個任務\n海巡過去 海委會過去對人員這個權益相當於重視 我們都是去肯定但是我們希望這一塊盡速到位這個變成一個制度的一個黑影 這不對很努力的在爭取這一塊 跟人種要努力啦 好不好那我針對今天這麼多委員一直在提到我們今天這個海洋科技的一個資源整合的問題我相信你們也聽到很多\n機關重疊的問題很多的計畫像我們今天在審這個立法的一個草案的一個立法的一個目的你最主要是強化國家整體海洋的科技的一個量能你像比如說你這個第三條裡面就列舉了海洋調查設施管理人才培育國際合作等七大項的一個業務但是我也注意到\n你去看我們國家研究院其實早就設有台灣海洋科技研究中心那你說從它的主要任務從平台的建構到研究船的維運人才培育跟草案所提到的新中心業務其實這個都你看高度的重疊啦真的是高度的一個重疊啦所以我要請你做說明的就是說\n為什麼已經在那個國衛院中心的情況之下我們還需要再設立一個新的國家海洋科技營運中心我們擔心的就是說你這個人力跟資源重複的一個配置的問題其實大家更擔心的啦我私底下在問啦更擔心的是你只是多了一個可以申請計畫的一個法人單位而已啦簡單說明\n國海院下設的這幾個重新事實上都是比較政策研究型的這樣子的一些個單位那我們這一次的這個科技調查中心海洋的這個事實上他很重點在傳模實驗室跟未來整個國家調查團隊的營運管理功能還有這些專業的人才的培育跟留才這個是他會非常不同於現在國海院在處理的業務的面向\n我們最擔心的是什麼呢其實你多了一個單位如果多一份力量那是好事啊可是你如果多了一個單位只是分散掉而已那其實就是無濟於事啦所以我真正想請教的啊你說以目前你看的就是說你看台灣目前涉及海洋的學術跟科研單位就那麼多海大中山城大還有這個國研院船舶中心各部位海洋計畫現在這一些啊各做各的啦\n你互不相通甚至於互相在搶人搶船搶人搶資源這個常常大家是有耳聞的那就是說這次設立中心是不是真正具備有統籌協調的一個實權你未來研究船的一個調度實驗設施的維運還有資料的整合跟管理是不是能夠集中到這個中心來做一個平台那如果變成一個申請的窗口的話要怎麼做\n我們最擔心的是這個啦你這科研的資源你不能各吹各的海風你中心設立以後應該是你應該是一個羅盤應該是一個舵手應該是一個整合者要不然大家小乖 大家像這個樣子而已這個要特別了 尤其你剛提到留財 要留住人才其實我們真的我們以現在你這個制度你可以留住人才嗎\n你要留住人才就很簡單啊你第一個你的薪水是多少啊你的制度到底有沒有給他保障啊你的升遷你的升遷的制度是怎麼樣啊那這一些你很難看你們草創階段啊看得出來啊一個你看這個我們現在啊海洋科系的你畢業後 兩條路嘛 對吧做科研嘛 不然要走準嘛走準 你要三伏一戶多少錢你知道嗎 像萬海跟長榮的多少你知道嗎 十八萬\n你這趴生要用多少來之後大家計畫做一做計畫結束 走掉了你說叫他繼續留下來繼續留下來他會覺得我也沒有升遷的管道\n我薪水又不夠多大家學到經驗以後 酸這個對他們到底是有沒有吸引力也就是說我們目前科研體系根本沒有辦法提供相對應的流財的一個誘因所以說你要流財 育財 要生財你這個機制如果沒有先做好的話你這個報紙中心是人才的流動站\n我們要把它變成是人採的基地培育的基地這樣才對啊所以我可以理解我們中興要採比較彈性的聘用制度但是如果說你只有這樣的短期契約沒有升遷的階梯甚至於沒有績效的獎勵薪資又缺乏彈性\n這個常常會變成一個終極戰這個我提出來要特別特別我們海委會這邊要特別去留意你看你今年海洋科技專案補助計畫擴編到7500萬7500萬對學界是一個鼓舞但是研究計畫做完人走了成果也跟著流失了你補助這些都是短期的而已制度才是一個關鍵\n這個副主委我是覺得剛好謝謝委員提醒我們都有往這個方面包括留財怎麼樣為了能夠把人才留在這個中心裡面對我就跟你說你情緒多你講不出來情緒多你講話好比你講都不會比的你只說要留財來 簡單做一個回應\n我們現在目前是比照教育人員生活條例還有很多的獎金制度那船員的部分會比照一般外面的船員的一個薪資是啊 所以誘因在哪裡你們認為這個誘因就夠了我覺得誘因來講除了薪水以外還有包括它是屬於公法的行政法的我覺得相對來講它的一個工作上的穩定性確實也會吸引到一些造船相關系所的一些學生\n因為我們有問過 我們有去做一些survey啦當然他們也期待到業界啦不過這個全職業本來都是大家人主要的選定啦那當然我們希望說我們這個制度 行李料 這個單位可以行李料可以去我們跟你這樣提出問題是叫你們要未雨綢繆啊不然你設計這個中心要重疊性的要幹什麼你涉及到如果說搶資源的啦說一艘船啦 你要決定要給誰啦\n你到最後什麼人要處理你這個中心有沒有辦法做決定當最後的一個仲裁者所以我都覺得這個大家要誠實去做一個面對先把問題先提出來最後一個問題你中心可能會涉及到機敏性的資訊的問題如何去把關關鍵人員的一個禁用我看你們今天早上主委也去提到還有會這邊好像也有在中國有居住權的\n你們現在清查出來是幾位清查有三位是在中國有居住證他是從小因為父親是台商所以從小就有居住證在那邊成長但是在招募我們志願士兵之後他都已經完成申請撤銷\n那所以他現在從事的是士兵都是願意士兵路上的還是海上的暗巡路上暗巡那還好啊你像譬如說我們現在以現在來看的話研發單位或者艦艇或者情收或者直通或者新型的一個武器的\n那你如果說在對讓這些中國有居住證的人我們的民眾還是心裡頭比較不安心啦所以國安部門以後這一塊啊你們說禁用人員你們要做考核 你要怎麼考核你是一個法人欸那是不是也比照跟國安單位你要不要考核 你不能跟人家說我調查你有沒有犯罪紀錄沒有做過三次 看有沒有犯罪的沒有 只能讓父子同盟起來對對的\n這個就比較草率啦是不是也可以跟國安單位這個地方啊你們要好好的去研擬這個制度的一個創建剛開始的時候就要非常謹慎人員的經驗我們非常嚴謹那將來也會有特殊查核的部分我們會跟安全單位來合作請安全單位來協助這個都有限在這樣的規劃當中這個一定要規劃得非常謹慎啦好不好這不能開玩笑啦\n那個夜間的危老人家 你說只有警察有 消防有 空情有 漁民署有真正每個晚上不分白天作業 晚上反而是最危險這個我們的整個海巡弟兄反而沒有很奇怪 趕快把它補起來好不好好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.894 --> 00:08.943\n謝謝主席我們有請副主委副主委請\n\n00:12.549 --> 00:37.919\n部主委好我想本席要先肯定我們海委會的一個努力在我們月初的時候通過了海巡軍職薪資待遇跟國軍同步這樣去做提升讓我們海巡起薪也達到四萬塊我相信將近有九千位的集成士官兵來受惠這對於我們長年在第一線守護海域保護人民的海巡兄弟這個是一季的一個強心針\n\n00:39.620 --> 00:57.726\n但是本席在這個地方也要特別提出來另一個急迫的一個問題就是說我們在去年警消還有移民署還有空勤這個都是有夜間危險的一個勤務的一個津貼\n\n00:59.666 --> 01:20.318\n對於我們海巡弟兄來講的話,深夜為勞性的一個勤務的一個補貼啊,到現在還是空白。我不曉得你們的看法是怎麼樣啦。諸位已經講過說,你們說這個是未來的一個目標啦,但是這個聽起來就讓人就覺得,沒有負理由聽起來都蒼白又無力啦。\n\n01:21.098 --> 01:39.572\n因為我都一直覺得說你台海局勢如果越緊張啊我們海巡面對了其實說實在話啦最緊張的就是共軍啦那不分之後又這樣子給你挑釁的話那你這個共軍或者中國的海軍或者那一些這個亂七八糟的船\n\n01:40.413 --> 02:00.732\n他也不會只有挑白天來啊他晚上也會來啊所以你海巡的弟兄是不分白天跟黑夜在巡訪冒著這樣深夜的一個風浪頂著這個風險這個風險值極高的一個勤務啊卻沒有這個配套補貼的一個制度啊我覺得這個是實質的不對等布小林的看法怎麼樣\n\n02:01.598 --> 02:27.377\n我就是跟委員報告其實管主委對這個部分就誠如他所說的啦其實他非常努力的在爭取啦那我們對同仁的權益尤其是剛剛提到的這些深夜圍牢的這個津貼的部分希望可以得到院裡面還有你們規劃了沒有我們有規劃有規劃可以請我們副主長報告委員非常感謝委員的關心那目前跟我們仁總在持續溝通協調中\n\n02:30.212 --> 02:47.771\n這個其實海巡弟兄情務其實非常的一個繁重你說不只是守海其實守海就是在守國他們同時肩負的你說邊境的一個巡防海上的執法還有你看我們海邊那個地方其實都是一些災難的一個救援多重的這樣的一個任務\n\n02:49.272 --> 03:16.693\n海巡過去海委會過去對人員這個權益相當於重視我們都是去肯定但是我們希望這一塊盡速到位這個變成一個制度的一個黑影這不對很努力的在爭取這一塊跟人種要努力啦好不好那我針對今天這麼多委員一直在提到我們今天這個海洋科技的一個資源整合的問題我相信你們也聽到很多\n\n03:18.238 --> 03:40.539\n機關重疊的問題很多的計畫像我們今天在審這個立法的一個草案的一個立法的一個目的你最主要是強化國家整體海洋的科技的一個量能你像比如說你這個第三條裡面就列舉了海洋調查設施管理人才培育國際合作等七大項的一個業務但是我也注意到\n\n03:40.999 --> 04:00.856\n你去看我們國家研究院其實早就設有台灣海洋科技研究中心那你說從它的主要任務從平台的建構到研究船的維運人才培育跟草案所提到的新中心業務其實這個都你看高度的重疊啦真的是高度的一個重疊啦所以我要請你做說明的就是說\n\n04:02.277 --> 04:23.151\n為什麼已經在那個國衛院中心的情況之下我們還需要再設立一個新的國家海洋科技營運中心我們擔心的就是說你這個人力跟資源重複的一個配置的問題其實大家更擔心的啦我私底下在問啦更擔心的是你只是多了一個可以申請計畫的一個法人單位而已啦簡單說明\n\n04:25.920 --> 04:50.080\n國海院下設的這幾個重新事實上都是比較政策研究型的這樣子的一些個單位那我們這一次的這個科技調查中心海洋的這個事實上他很重點在傳模實驗室跟未來整個國家調查團隊的營運管理功能還有這些專業的人才的培育跟留才這個是他會非常不同於現在國海院在處理的業務的面向\n\n04:51.069 --> 05:18.493\n我們最擔心的是什麼呢其實你多了一個單位如果多一份力量那是好事啊可是你如果多了一個單位只是分散掉而已那其實就是無濟於事啦所以我真正想請教的啊你說以目前你看的就是說你看台灣目前涉及海洋的學術跟科研單位就那麼多海大中山城大還有這個國研院船舶中心各部位海洋計畫現在這一些啊各做各的啦\n\n05:19.989 --> 05:45.456\n你互不相通甚至於互相在搶人搶船搶人搶資源這個常常大家是有耳聞的那就是說這次設立中心是不是真正具備有統籌協調的一個實權你未來研究船的一個調度實驗設施的維運還有資料的整合跟管理是不是能夠集中到這個中心來做一個平台那如果變成一個申請的窗口的話要怎麼做\n\n05:48.045 --> 06:12.707\n我們最擔心的是這個啦你這科研的資源你不能各吹各的海風你中心設立以後應該是你應該是一個羅盤應該是一個舵手應該是一個整合者要不然大家小乖大家像這個樣子而已這個要特別了尤其你剛提到留財要留住人才其實我們真的我們以現在你這個制度你可以留住人才嗎\n\n06:13.851 --> 06:38.127\n你要留住人才就很簡單啊你第一個你的薪水是多少啊你的制度到底有沒有給他保障啊你的升遷你的升遷的制度是怎麼樣啊那這一些你很難看你們草創階段啊看得出來啊一個你看這個我們現在啊海洋科系的你畢業後兩條路嘛對吧做科研嘛不然要走準嘛走準你要三伏一戶多少錢你知道嗎像萬海跟長榮的多少你知道嗎十八萬\n\n06:42.734 --> 06:52.882\n你這趴生要用多少來之後大家計畫做一做計畫結束走掉了你說叫他繼續留下來繼續留下來他會覺得我也沒有升遷的管道\n\n06:53.872 --> 07:17.118\n我薪水又不夠多大家學到經驗以後酸這個對他們到底是有沒有吸引力也就是說我們目前科研體系根本沒有辦法提供相對應的流財的一個誘因所以說你要流財育財要生財你這個機制如果沒有先做好的話你這個報紙中心是人才的流動站\n\n07:18.118 --> 07:33.979\n我們要把它變成是人採的基地培育的基地這樣才對啊所以我可以理解我們中興要採比較彈性的聘用制度但是如果說你只有這樣的短期契約沒有升遷的階梯甚至於沒有績效的獎勵薪資又缺乏彈性\n\n07:35.680 --> 07:57.671\n這個常常會變成一個終極戰這個我提出來要特別特別我們海委會這邊要特別去留意你看你今年海洋科技專案補助計畫擴編到7500萬7500萬對學界是一個鼓舞但是研究計畫做完人走了成果也跟著流失了你補助這些都是短期的而已制度才是一個關鍵\n\n08:00.453 --> 08:13.127\n這個副主委我是覺得剛好謝謝委員提醒我們都有往這個方面包括留財怎麼樣為了能夠把人才留在這個中心裡面對我就跟你說你情緒多你講不出來情緒多你講話好比你講都不會比的你只說要留財來簡單做一個回應\n\n08:21.397 --> 08:46.143\n我們現在目前是比照教育人員生活條例還有很多的獎金制度那船員的部分會比照一般外面的船員的一個薪資是啊所以誘因在哪裡你們認為這個誘因就夠了我覺得誘因來講除了薪水以外還有包括它是屬於公法的行政法的我覺得相對來講它的一個工作上的穩定性確實也會吸引到一些造船相關系所的一些學生\n\n08:47.143 --> 09:14.022\n因為我們有問過我們有去做一些survey啦當然他們也期待到業界啦不過這個全職業本來都是大家人主要的選定啦那當然我們希望說我們這個制度行李料這個單位可以行李料可以去我們跟你這樣提出問題是叫你們要未雨綢繆啊不然你設計這個中心要重疊性的要幹什麼你涉及到如果說搶資源的啦說一艘船啦你要決定要給誰啦\n\n09:15.370 --> 09:43.261\n你到最後什麼人要處理你這個中心有沒有辦法做決定當最後的一個仲裁者所以我都覺得這個大家要誠實去做一個面對先把問題先提出來最後一個問題你中心可能會涉及到機敏性的資訊的問題如何去把關關鍵人員的一個禁用我看你們今天早上主委也去提到還有會這邊好像也有在中國有居住權的\n\n09:46.667 --> 10:03.724\n你們現在清查出來是幾位清查有三位是在中國有居住證他是從小因為父親是台商所以從小就有居住證在那邊成長但是在招募我們志願士兵之後他都已經完成申請撤銷\n\n10:04.685 --> 10:22.035\n那所以他現在從事的是士兵都是願意士兵路上的還是海上的暗巡路上暗巡那還好啊你像譬如說我們現在以現在來看的話研發單位或者艦艇或者情收或者直通或者新型的一個武器的\n\n10:22.495 --> 10:47.311\n那你如果說在對讓這些中國有居住證的人我們的民眾還是心裡頭比較不安心啦所以國安部門以後這一塊啊你們說禁用人員你們要做考核你要怎麼考核你是一個法人欸那是不是也比照跟國安單位你要不要考核你不能跟人家說我調查你有沒有犯罪紀錄沒有做過三次看有沒有犯罪的沒有只能讓父子同盟起來對對的\n\n10:52.174 --> 11:13.979\n這個就比較草率啦是不是也可以跟國安單位這個地方啊你們要好好的去研擬這個制度的一個創建剛開始的時候就要非常謹慎人員的經驗我們非常嚴謹那將來也會有特殊查核的部分我們會跟安全單位來合作請安全單位來協助這個都有限在這樣的規劃當中這個一定要規劃得非常謹慎啦好不好這不能開玩笑啦\n\n11:20.120 --> 11:38.651\n那個夜間的危老人家你說只有警察有消防有空情有漁民署有真正每個晚上不分白天作業晚上反而是最危險這個我們的整個海巡弟兄反而沒有很奇怪趕快把它補起來好不好好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.894,"end":8.943,"text":"謝謝主席 我們有請副主委副主委請"},{"start":12.549,"end":37.919,"text":"部主委好我想本席要先肯定我們海委會的一個努力在我們月初的時候通過了海巡軍職薪資待遇跟國軍同步這樣去做提升讓我們海巡起薪也達到四萬塊我相信將近有九千位的集成士官兵來受惠這對於我們長年在第一線守護海域保護人民的海巡兄弟這個是一季的一個強心針"},{"start":39.62,"end":57.726,"text":"但是本席在這個地方也要特別提出來另一個急迫的一個問題就是說我們在去年警消還有移民署還有空勤這個都是有夜間危險的一個勤務的一個津貼"},{"start":59.666,"end":80.318,"text":"對於我們海巡弟兄來講的話,深夜為勞性的一個勤務的一個補貼啊,到現在還是空白。我不曉得你們的看法是怎麼樣啦。諸位已經講過說,你們說這個是未來的一個目標啦,但是這個聽起來就讓人就覺得,沒有負理由聽起來都蒼白又無力啦。"},{"start":81.098,"end":99.572,"text":"因為我都一直覺得說你台海局勢如果越緊張啊我們海巡面對了其實說實在話啦最緊張的就是共軍啦那不分之後又這樣子給你挑釁的話那你這個共軍或者中國的海軍或者那一些這個亂七八糟的船"},{"start":100.413,"end":120.732,"text":"他也不會只有挑白天來啊他晚上也會來啊所以你海巡的弟兄是不分白天跟黑夜在巡訪冒著這樣深夜的一個風浪頂著這個風險這個風險值極高的一個勤務啊卻沒有這個配套補貼的一個制度啊我覺得這個是實質的不對等布小林的看法怎麼樣"},{"start":121.598,"end":147.377,"text":"我就是跟委員報告其實管主委對這個部分就誠如他所說的啦其實他非常努力的在爭取啦那我們對同仁的權益尤其是剛剛提到的這些深夜圍牢的這個津貼的部分希望可以得到院裡面還有你們規劃了沒有我們有規劃有規劃可以請我們副主長報告委員非常感謝委員的關心那目前跟我們仁總在持續溝通協調中"},{"start":150.212,"end":167.771,"text":"這個其實海巡弟兄情務其實非常的一個繁重你說不只是守海 其實守海就是在守國他們同時肩負的你說邊境的一個巡防 海上的執法還有你看我們海邊那個地方 其實都是一些災難的一個救援多重的這樣的一個任務"},{"start":169.272,"end":196.693,"text":"海巡過去 海委會過去對人員這個權益相當於重視 我們都是去肯定但是我們希望這一塊盡速到位這個變成一個制度的一個黑影 這不對很努力的在爭取這一塊 跟人種要努力啦 好不好那我針對今天這麼多委員一直在提到我們今天這個海洋科技的一個資源整合的問題我相信你們也聽到很多"},{"start":198.238,"end":220.539,"text":"機關重疊的問題很多的計畫像我們今天在審這個立法的一個草案的一個立法的一個目的你最主要是強化國家整體海洋的科技的一個量能你像比如說你這個第三條裡面就列舉了海洋調查設施管理人才培育國際合作等七大項的一個業務但是我也注意到"},{"start":220.999,"end":240.856,"text":"你去看我們國家研究院其實早就設有台灣海洋科技研究中心那你說從它的主要任務從平台的建構到研究船的維運人才培育跟草案所提到的新中心業務其實這個都你看高度的重疊啦真的是高度的一個重疊啦所以我要請你做說明的就是說"},{"start":242.277,"end":263.151,"text":"為什麼已經在那個國衛院中心的情況之下我們還需要再設立一個新的國家海洋科技營運中心我們擔心的就是說你這個人力跟資源重複的一個配置的問題其實大家更擔心的啦我私底下在問啦更擔心的是你只是多了一個可以申請計畫的一個法人單位而已啦簡單說明"},{"start":265.92,"end":290.08,"text":"國海院下設的這幾個重新事實上都是比較政策研究型的這樣子的一些個單位那我們這一次的這個科技調查中心海洋的這個事實上他很重點在傳模實驗室跟未來整個國家調查團隊的營運管理功能還有這些專業的人才的培育跟留才這個是他會非常不同於現在國海院在處理的業務的面向"},{"start":291.069,"end":318.493,"text":"我們最擔心的是什麼呢其實你多了一個單位如果多一份力量那是好事啊可是你如果多了一個單位只是分散掉而已那其實就是無濟於事啦所以我真正想請教的啊你說以目前你看的就是說你看台灣目前涉及海洋的學術跟科研單位就那麼多海大中山城大還有這個國研院船舶中心各部位海洋計畫現在這一些啊各做各的啦"},{"start":319.989,"end":345.456,"text":"你互不相通甚至於互相在搶人搶船搶人搶資源這個常常大家是有耳聞的那就是說這次設立中心是不是真正具備有統籌協調的一個實權你未來研究船的一個調度實驗設施的維運還有資料的整合跟管理是不是能夠集中到這個中心來做一個平台那如果變成一個申請的窗口的話要怎麼做"},{"start":348.045,"end":372.707,"text":"我們最擔心的是這個啦你這科研的資源你不能各吹各的海風你中心設立以後應該是你應該是一個羅盤應該是一個舵手應該是一個整合者要不然大家小乖 大家像這個樣子而已這個要特別了 尤其你剛提到留財 要留住人才其實我們真的我們以現在你這個制度你可以留住人才嗎"},{"start":373.851,"end":398.127,"text":"你要留住人才就很簡單啊你第一個你的薪水是多少啊你的制度到底有沒有給他保障啊你的升遷你的升遷的制度是怎麼樣啊那這一些你很難看你們草創階段啊看得出來啊一個你看這個我們現在啊海洋科系的你畢業後 兩條路嘛 對吧做科研嘛 不然要走準嘛走準 你要三伏一戶多少錢你知道嗎 像萬海跟長榮的多少你知道嗎 十八萬"},{"start":402.734,"end":412.882,"text":"你這趴生要用多少來之後大家計畫做一做計畫結束 走掉了你說叫他繼續留下來繼續留下來他會覺得我也沒有升遷的管道"},{"start":413.872,"end":437.118,"text":"我薪水又不夠多大家學到經驗以後 酸這個對他們到底是有沒有吸引力也就是說我們目前科研體系根本沒有辦法提供相對應的流財的一個誘因所以說你要流財 育財 要生財你這個機制如果沒有先做好的話你這個報紙中心是人才的流動站"},{"start":438.118,"end":453.979,"text":"我們要把它變成是人採的基地培育的基地這樣才對啊所以我可以理解我們中興要採比較彈性的聘用制度但是如果說你只有這樣的短期契約沒有升遷的階梯甚至於沒有績效的獎勵薪資又缺乏彈性"},{"start":455.68,"end":477.671,"text":"這個常常會變成一個終極戰這個我提出來要特別特別我們海委會這邊要特別去留意你看你今年海洋科技專案補助計畫擴編到7500萬7500萬對學界是一個鼓舞但是研究計畫做完人走了成果也跟著流失了你補助這些都是短期的而已制度才是一個關鍵"},{"start":480.453,"end":493.127,"text":"這個副主委我是覺得剛好謝謝委員提醒我們都有往這個方面包括留財怎麼樣為了能夠把人才留在這個中心裡面對我就跟你說你情緒多你講不出來情緒多你講話好比你講都不會比的你只說要留財來 簡單做一個回應"},{"start":501.397,"end":526.143,"text":"我們現在目前是比照教育人員生活條例還有很多的獎金制度那船員的部分會比照一般外面的船員的一個薪資是啊 所以誘因在哪裡你們認為這個誘因就夠了我覺得誘因來講除了薪水以外還有包括它是屬於公法的行政法的我覺得相對來講它的一個工作上的穩定性確實也會吸引到一些造船相關系所的一些學生"},{"start":527.143,"end":554.022,"text":"因為我們有問過 我們有去做一些survey啦當然他們也期待到業界啦不過這個全職業本來都是大家人主要的選定啦那當然我們希望說我們這個制度 行李料 這個單位可以行李料可以去我們跟你這樣提出問題是叫你們要未雨綢繆啊不然你設計這個中心要重疊性的要幹什麼你涉及到如果說搶資源的啦說一艘船啦 你要決定要給誰啦"},{"start":555.37,"end":583.261,"text":"你到最後什麼人要處理你這個中心有沒有辦法做決定當最後的一個仲裁者所以我都覺得這個大家要誠實去做一個面對先把問題先提出來最後一個問題你中心可能會涉及到機敏性的資訊的問題如何去把關關鍵人員的一個禁用我看你們今天早上主委也去提到還有會這邊好像也有在中國有居住權的"},{"start":586.667,"end":603.724,"text":"你們現在清查出來是幾位清查有三位是在中國有居住證他是從小因為父親是台商所以從小就有居住證在那邊成長但是在招募我們志願士兵之後他都已經完成申請撤銷"},{"start":604.685,"end":622.035,"text":"那所以他現在從事的是士兵都是願意士兵路上的還是海上的暗巡路上暗巡那還好啊你像譬如說我們現在以現在來看的話研發單位或者艦艇或者情收或者直通或者新型的一個武器的"},{"start":622.495,"end":647.311,"text":"那你如果說在對讓這些中國有居住證的人我們的民眾還是心裡頭比較不安心啦所以國安部門以後這一塊啊你們說禁用人員你們要做考核 你要怎麼考核你是一個法人欸那是不是也比照跟國安單位你要不要考核 你不能跟人家說我調查你有沒有犯罪紀錄沒有做過三次 看有沒有犯罪的沒有 只能讓父子同盟起來對對的"},{"start":652.174,"end":673.979,"text":"這個就比較草率啦是不是也可以跟國安單位這個地方啊你們要好好的去研擬這個制度的一個創建剛開始的時候就要非常謹慎人員的經驗我們非常嚴謹那將來也會有特殊查核的部分我們會跟安全單位來合作請安全單位來協助這個都有限在這樣的規劃當中這個一定要規劃得非常謹慎啦好不好這不能開玩笑啦"},{"start":680.12,"end":698.651,"text":"那個夜間的危老人家 你說只有警察有 消防有 空情有 漁民署有真正每個晚上不分白天作業 晚上反而是最危險這個我們的整個海巡弟兄反而沒有很奇怪 趕快把它補起來好不好好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":420,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（10時18分）謝謝主席。有請副主委。"],["主席：副主委請。"],["莊委員瑞雄：副主委好。本席要先肯定海委會的努力，在月初的時候通過了海巡軍職薪資待遇，和國軍同步提升，讓海巡基層士官兵起薪也達到4萬塊，我相信將近有9,000位受惠，這對於長年在第一線守護海域、保護人民的海巡兄弟是一劑強心針。但是本席在此也要特別提出另一個急迫的問題，去年警消、移民署還有空勤，都有夜間危險勤務的津貼，對於海巡弟兄來講，深夜危勞性勤務補貼到現在還是空白，我不曉得你們的看法是怎麼樣？管主委已經講過這是未來的目標，但是沒有附理由聽起來都讓人覺得蒼白又無力。我一直覺得臺海局勢如果越緊張，說實在話，海巡最緊張的就是面對共軍，他們這樣不分晝夜的來挑釁，共軍、中國海軍或一些亂七八糟的船也不會只挑白天來，晚上也會來，所以海巡弟兄是不分白天跟黑夜在巡防，冒著深夜的風浪、頂著風險，是風險值極高的勤務，卻沒有配套補貼制度，我覺得這是實質不對等，不曉得你的看法怎麼樣？"],["吳副主任委員美紅：跟委員報告，管主委對這個部分誠如他所說的，事實上他非常努力地在爭取，我們對同仁的權益，尤其是剛剛提到深夜危勞津貼的部分，希望可以得到院裡面還有……"],["莊委員瑞雄：你們規劃了沒有？"],["吳副主任委員美紅：我們有規劃。"],["莊委員瑞雄：有規劃。"],["吳副主任委員美紅：可以請副署長報告。"],["謝副署長慶欽：報告委員，非常感謝委員的關心，目前跟人總在持續溝通協調中。"],["莊委員瑞雄：海巡弟兄的勤務其實非常的繁重，不只是守海，其實守海就是在守國，他們同時肩負邊境的巡防、海上的執法，還有你看海邊地方的一些災難救援，多重的任務性質，海委會過去對人員的權益相當重視，我們都肯定，但是我們希望這一塊儘速到位，變成一個制度的黑影這不對啊！"],["吳副主任委員美紅：我們現在很努力跟人總在爭取。"],["莊委員瑞雄：要努力，好不好？"],["吳副主任委員美紅：有！"],["莊委員瑞雄：針對今天這麼多委員一直提到海洋科技資源整合的問題，我相信你們也聽到很多機關業務重疊的問題，很多的計畫像我們今天審草案立法的目的，最主要是強化國家整體海洋科技的量能，比如第三條就列舉海洋調查、設施管理、人才培育、國際合作等七大項業務，但是我也注意到國家實驗研究院早就設有台灣海洋科技研究中心，它的主要任務從平台的建構到研究船的維運及人才培育，跟草案所提到新的中心業務真的是高度重疊，所以我要請你說明，在已經有國研院台灣海洋科技研究中心的情況下，為什麼還需要再設立一個新的國家海洋科技營運中心？我們擔心的是人力跟資源重複配置的問題，其實大家更擔心只是多了一個可以申請計畫的法人單位而已。請簡單說明。"],["吳副主任委員美紅：國海院下設的幾個中心都是比較偏政策型的研究單位，我們的海洋科技營運中心事實上重點在船模實驗室跟未來整個國家調查船隊的營運管理功能，還有專業人才的培育跟留才，這是非常不同於現在國海院處理業務的面向。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我們最擔心的是什麼呢？其實你多了一個單位，如果多一份力量那是好事，可是你如果多了一個單位，只是分散掉業務而已，那其實就是無濟於事。所以我真正想請教，以臺灣目前涉及海洋的學術跟科研單位就那麼多，海大、中山、成大，還有國研院、船舶中心、各部會海洋計畫，現在這一些都各做各的、互不相通，甚至於互相在搶人、搶船、搶資源，這個大家都時有耳聞，這一次設立中心是不是真正具備統籌協調的實權？未來研究船的調度、實驗設施的維運，還有資料的整合跟管理是不是能夠集中到營運中心來做一個平台？如果變成另一個申請的窗口，那又何必要做？我們最擔心的是這個。","科研的資源不能各吹各的海風，中心設立以後應該是一個羅盤、一個舵手、一個整合者，不然大家就會互相牽制、互相搶資源而已，這個要特別注意。尤其剛剛提到要留住人才，以你現在的制度可以留住人才嗎？你要留住人才很簡單，第一個，你的薪水是多少啊？你的制度到底有沒有給他保障？你的升遷制度是怎麼樣？這一些很難在你們草創階段看得出來。你看現在海洋科系畢業之後只有兩條路，做科研人員，不然就跑船。三副一個月多少錢，你知道嗎？像萬海跟長榮的薪水多少，你知道嗎？18萬啊！你這個單位打算要給人家多少？如果人來了之後大家計畫做一做，計畫結束後就走掉了，你說叫他繼續留下來，他會覺得繼續留下來也沒有升遷的管道，薪水又不夠多，大家學到經驗以後就走了。這對他們到底有沒有吸引力？我們目前的科研體系根本沒有辦法提供相對應留才的誘因，所以你要留才、育才、升才，這個機制如果沒有先做好的話，到最後你的中心是人才的流動站。我們要把它變成人才的基地、培育的基地這樣才對，所以我可以理解中心要採比較彈性的聘用制度，但是如果你只有這樣的短期契約，沒有升遷的階梯，甚至於沒有績效的獎勵，薪資又缺乏彈性，這個常常會變成一個中繼站。我提出來，海委會要特別留意，你看今年海洋科技專案補助計畫擴編到7,500萬，7,500萬對學界是一個鼓舞，但是研究計畫做完，人走了，成果也跟著流失了，你補助這些都是短期的而已，制度才是一個關鍵。副主委，我是覺得……"],["吳副主任委員美紅：謝謝委員提醒，我們都有往這個方面，包括留才，未來怎麼樣能夠把人才留在這個中心裡面。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我就問你薪水多少，你說不出來，你要跟外面比，你沒辦法跟人家比的，你們只說要留才？來，簡單做一個回應。"],["陳院長璋玲：我們目前是比照教育人員任用條例，還有很多的獎金制度，船員的部分會比照一般外面船員的薪資。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是，所以誘因在哪裡？你們認為這個誘因就夠了？"],["陳院長璋玲：我覺得誘因來講，除了薪水以外，還有包括它是屬於公法的行政法人，我覺得相對來講，它工作上的穩定性確實也會吸引一些造船相關系所的學生。因為我們有問過，我們有做一些survey，當然他們也期待到業界……"],["莊委員瑞雄：是，你們聚集招攏人員，當他們學一學，叫他們做一做之後，人家學到功夫，大家就要跑了。"],["陳院長璋玲：不過職業本來都是大家自由的選擇，當然我們希望這個制度成立之後、這個單位可以成立之後，可以……"],["莊委員瑞雄：我們跟你這樣提出問題，是叫你們要未雨綢繆啊！不然你設計這個中心，重疊性的要幹什麼？如果涉及搶資源，譬如一艘船，決定要給誰、到最後什麼人要處理，你們這個中心有辦法去做決定，當最後的一個仲裁者？我覺得大家要誠實面對，我先把問題提出。","最後一個問題，你的中心可能會有涉及機敏性資訊的問題，如何把關關鍵人員的進用？我看今天早上主委也提到，海委會好像也有在中國有居住權的，你們有幾個？你們說你們有3個，你們現在清查出來是幾位？"],["謝副署長慶欽：報告委員，目前清查有3位在中國有居住證，他是因為父親是臺商，所以從小就有居住證，在那邊成長，但是在我們招募志願士兵之後，他都已經完成申請撤銷。"],["莊委員瑞雄：所以他現在從事的是？"],["謝副署長慶欽：士兵，都是志願役士兵。"],["莊委員瑞雄：士兵？陸上的還是海上的？"],["謝副署長慶欽：岸巡，陸上的。"],["莊委員瑞雄：岸巡，那還好，譬如我們以現在來看的話，研發單位、或者艦艇、或者情蒐、或者資通、或者新型武器的，如果是這些在中國有居住證的人，我們民眾的心裡頭還是比較不安心，所以國安部門以後這一塊，你們說進用人員，你們要考核，你要怎麼考核？你是一個法人，是不是也比照國安單位？你要考核，不能只有調查有沒有犯罪紀錄、祖宗三代有沒有犯罪，不能只有這樣拿戶籍謄本來比對而已，這個就比較草率。是不是也可以比照國安單位？你們要好好研擬，制度的創建在剛開始的時候就要非常謹慎。"],["吳副主任委員美紅：有，人員的進用，我們非常嚴謹，將來也會有特殊查核的部分，我們會跟安全單位合作，請安全單位來協助，現在都有這樣在規劃當中。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我希望這個一定要規劃得非常謹慎，好不好？這不能開玩笑。","還有夜間的危勞津貼，你說只有警察有、消防有、空勤有、漁民署有，真正沒有在分白天、晚上作業，晚上反而是最危險的，我們整個海巡弟兄反而沒有，這很奇怪，趕快把它補起來，好不好？"],["吳副主任委員美紅：我們會非常努力，謝謝。"],["莊委員瑞雄：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝莊瑞雄委員。","接下來請李柏毅委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":318,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-36,15-1","speakers":["莊瑞雄","蘇巧慧","陳培瑜","黃國昌","沈發惠","麥玉珍","張智倫","張宏陸","王美惠","李柏毅","黃捷","林倩綺","翁曉玲","牛煦庭","吳思瑤","王鴻薇","王義川","羅智強","高金素梅","許宇甄","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":267,"meetingDate":["2025-04-17"],"gazette_id":"1143901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143901_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查行政院函請審議「國家海洋科技營運中心設置條例草案」案【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1143901_00011"}}}