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{\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 200.895, \"end\": 201.836, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"針\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"尤\", \"start\": 201.836, \"end\": 201.976, \"score\": 0.725}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 201.976, \"end\": 202.116, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 202.116, \"end\": 202.236, \"score\": 0.724}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 202.236, \"end\": 202.517, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 202.517, \"end\": 202.717, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 202.717, \"end\": 202.917, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 202.917, \"end\": 203.237, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 203.237, \"end\": 203.437, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 203.437, \"end\": 204.138, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"災\"}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 204.138, \"end\": 204.539, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 204.539, 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{\"word\": \"緩\"}, {\"word\": \"收\", \"start\": 214.849, \"end\": 215.029, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"取\", \"start\": 215.029, \"end\": 215.169, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"碳\", \"start\": 215.169, \"end\": 215.509, \"score\": 0.73}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 215.509, \"end\": 215.63, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 215.63, \"end\": 215.83, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 215.83, \"end\": 216.37, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 216.37, \"end\": 217.131, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 217.131, \"end\": 217.291, \"score\": 0.782}, {\"word\": \"企\", \"start\": 217.291, \"end\": 218.412, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"達\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 218.412, \"end\": 219.133, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"轉\"}, {\"word\": \"型\", \"start\": 219.133, \"end\": 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{\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 239.85, \"end\": 240.35, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 240.35, \"end\": 240.651, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 240.651, \"end\": 240.811, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 240.811, \"end\": 241.231, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 241.231, \"end\": 241.451, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 241.451, \"end\": 241.651, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 241.651, \"end\": 241.992, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 241.992, \"end\": 242.192, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 242.192, \"end\": 242.312, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 242.312, \"end\": 242.432, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"扣\", \"start\": 242.432, \"end\": 242.552, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 242.552, \"end\": 242.812, \"score\": 0.847}, 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0.925}, {\"word\": \"強\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 268.055, \"end\": 268.235, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"歐\", \"start\": 268.235, \"end\": 268.416, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"盟\", \"start\": 268.416, \"end\": 268.576, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 268.576, \"end\": 269.437, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"聯\"}, {\"word\": \"繫\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 269.437, \"end\": 269.597, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 269.597, \"end\": 269.617, \"score\": 1.0}]}, {\"start\": 269.997, \"end\": 279.762, \"text\": \"因為目前的擴建業者基本上大多只有一家要收而已其他多數都不用收碳費所以目前我們會積極的來保障他們在歐盟的協商的部分能夠銜接的上\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 269.997, \"end\": 270.197, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 270.197, \"end\": 270.357, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 270.357, \"end\": 270.517, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 270.517, \"end\": 270.837, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"擴\"}, {\"word\": \"建\", 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\"start\": 275.48, \"end\": 275.62, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 275.62, \"end\": 276.26, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"積\"}, {\"word\": \"極\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 276.26, \"end\": 276.64, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 276.64, \"end\": 276.8, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"障\", \"start\": 276.8, \"end\": 276.96, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 276.96, \"end\": 277.221, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 277.221, \"end\": 277.441, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"歐\", \"start\": 277.441, \"end\": 277.581, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"盟\", \"start\": 277.581, \"end\": 277.741, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 277.741, \"end\": 278.021, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"商\", \"start\": 278.021, \"end\": 278.181, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 278.181, \"end\": 278.281, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 278.281, \"end\": 278.401, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 278.401, \"end\": 278.901, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 278.901, \"end\": 279.482, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"銜\"}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 279.482, \"end\": 279.622, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 279.622, \"end\": 279.742, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 279.742, \"end\": 279.762, \"score\": 0.993}]}, {\"start\": 280.373, \"end\": 303.368, \"text\": \"那針對去美國的這些出口的企業呢目前美國出口的跟碳是比較沒有什麼影響因為美國沒有美國的CBAN但是問題是說我覺得產業在這波關稅的挑戰之下它的轉型是最重要的轉型兩個一個是綠色轉型一個是數位轉型那這個部分我們會跟經濟部一起積極來合作協助這種所謂的會碳排的產業\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 280.373, \"end\": 280.893, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"針\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 280.893, \"end\": 281.234, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 281.234, \"end\": 281.574, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 281.574, 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{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 302.327, \"end\": 302.567, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"謂\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 302.567, \"end\": 303.027, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"碳\", \"start\": 303.027, \"end\": 303.228, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"排\", \"start\": 303.228, \"end\": 303.348, \"score\": 0.787}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 303.348, \"end\": 303.368, \"score\": 0.682}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}]}, {\"start\": 304.188, \"end\": 322.142, \"text\": \"對 因為其實我也有看到你們今天報告有寫到一個你們去年7月1號有發布這個溫室氣體減量額度的交易拍賣跟移轉管理辦法對不對 它截至今年的4月11日起有受理了63案的這個專案註冊申請那通過了16案那環境部在去年辦理5場次的這個自願減量專案的說明會共計908人參加那我就想說那你們今年預估要辦幾場是不是可以擴大辦理\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 304.188, \"end\": 304.428, \"score\": 0.713}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 304.428, \"end\": 304.689, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 304.689, \"end\": 304.789, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 304.789, \"end\": 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\"end\": 383.961, \"text\": \"因為目前上一年是五場看到如果有這樣子的成效可以繼續再辦理下去我們也會支持另外就是在淨零轉型的部分當然不僅是挑戰也是機遇那根據2024年的中華民國溫室氣體的排放清測報告在能源部分燃料的燃燒還是仍然是主要的排放來源那超過了50%\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 362.805, \"end\": 363.225, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 363.225, \"end\": 363.426, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 363.426, \"end\": 363.646, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 363.646, \"end\": 363.826, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 363.826, \"end\": 363.926, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 363.926, \"end\": 364.066, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 364.066, \"end\": 364.186, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 364.186, \"end\": 364.907, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 364.907, \"end\": 365.047, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 365.047, \"end\": 365.247, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 365.247, \"end\": 365.347, 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\"end\": 622.557, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"六\", \"start\": 622.557, \"end\": 622.677, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 622.677, \"end\": 622.697, \"score\": 0.35}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,463 --> 00:00:09,087\n謝謝主席有請我們彭部長\n\n2\n00:00:14,998 --> 00:00:36,915\n我想今天應該大家都很關心川普總統上台之後他再次表明退出巴黎氣候協定根據國際能源總署的評估美國退出協定可能導致全球減碳的努力損失將近20%以上的動能這個決定當然對我們全球的氣候治理影響非常大\n\n3\n00:00:37,932 --> 00:00:57,828\n那麼再加上現在美國關稅的政策轉彎讓我們出口產業的這個淨零轉型會造成大的壓力那台灣企業也面臨著關稅壁壘跟這個碳邊境調整機制的雙重挑戰剛剛講過但是我們也有看到有看到一個是40%的出口企業表示可能會放緩這個\n\n4\n00:00:59,609 --> 00:01:21,555\n碳減排的投資那根據你的報告也有寫到美國政策造成了全球綠能投資的信心或減碳的企圖受挫是可以預見的那畢竟對於整個企業來說投入這個減碳是提高很多的成本再加上現在的關稅那可能直接導致所謂的企業獲利下降甚至虧損倒閉的問題我也接續著剛剛我們求證局委員在問這兩難的困境\n\n5\n00:01:27,168 --> 00:01:34,240\n初步你也有討論在你的受訪裡面有講到可能初步全國的碳費規模就會破300億左右50到60億然後後面會再增加\n\n6\n00:01:37,403 --> 00:01:57,514\n那再來就是關稅的部分也根據經濟部的推廣的影響也非常的高那我想要請問一下部長目前面對現在的這個整體的不管是關稅的衝擊啊等等的對於企業美國的這個政策轉變我們政府有沒有更詳盡的量化分析評估它對於這個國內產業淨零轉型的具體衝擊是多少\n\n7\n00:02:00,256 --> 00:02:12,168\n好幫國委員其實第一個是要知道它的關稅最後是版本是什麼因為其實每天都在變所以其實我們是滾動式的在調整你們有照這個層次去做一個比較細緻的分析嗎比如說講到10%20%或32%\n\n8\n00:02:16,111 --> 00:02:38,210\n還沒有到那麼細緻因為畢竟關稅它的這個代表的意義跟它的量體比這個碳大很多所以我們基本上是看完之後也看這個相關產業的發展然後最後決定說像這樣的結論就是我們預估可能的一個情境但是實際上有多少信心減少多少投資減少多少這個還要再一段時間才能估算的出來\n\n9\n00:02:38,951 --> 00:03:07,102\n那你們可以依照現在因為你至少就10%的現在就是10%嘛那未來可能還會再提高那對於這樣子有沒有一個比較細緻的量化的分析因為目前這個我們的電子業的影響雖然是有但是沒有想像中來得這麼的高那台灣的主要的碳費很大的來源現在是半導體業的影響那當然啦石化產業或鋼鐵業他過去幾年經營得比較辛苦所以其實我們現在對於那種需要\n\n10\n00:03:08,123 --> 00:03:17,353\n幫忙的部分我們也會爭取的經費跟經濟部一起來合作協助產業轉型好謝謝這就是接下來要問的因為你也看到你說具體的減碳目標是不會改變的\n\n11\n00:03:17,932 --> 00:03:40,574\n那我想要問在這樣的情況之下你們會不會針對尤其是我們中部有這些重災區啊有很多的中小企業像你說鋼鐵或甚至一些機械業等等的有沒有可能採取這個降低減碳目標或者是針對特定的或者是暫緩收取碳費的方式來協助這些企業來達到這個轉型的可行的措施\n\n12\n00:03:41,235 --> 00:04:04,213\n那你也有提到一些專案補助的輔導那具體的內容是什麼因為這個都會影響到如何協助企業在這麼複雜的國際環境中可以堅定的推進淨零轉型好謝謝委員因為整個中南部有很多的扣件業者特別是螺絲的業者他們疏歐他們都很擔心不過跟委員報告其實因為目前的扣件業者只有一家要收碳費\n\n13\n00:04:05,074 --> 00:04:29,617\n大概他大概交的話大概只要交18萬如果按照他什麼都不做檢探18萬就好了所以其實影響是很小的那第二個呢他對蘇歐可能會有影響可是目前的CBAN他的目前的草案是50噸以上才要再收所以50噸的對多數的企業特別是中小企業蘇歐其實沒有那麼高所以請中小企業其實可以放心那目前的我們會加強跟歐盟的聯繫如果\n\n14\n00:04:29,997 --> 00:04:39,762\n因為目前的擴建業者基本上大多只有一家要收而已其他多數都不用收碳費所以目前我們會積極的來保障他們在歐盟的協商的部分能夠銜接的上\n\n15\n00:04:40,373 --> 00:05:03,368\n那針對去美國的這些出口的企業呢目前美國出口的跟碳是比較沒有什麼影響因為美國沒有美國的CBAN但是問題是說我覺得產業在這波關稅的挑戰之下它的轉型是最重要的轉型兩個一個是綠色轉型一個是數位轉型那這個部分我們會跟經濟部一起積極來合作協助這種所謂的會碳排的產業\n\n16\n00:05:04,188 --> 00:05:22,142\n對因為其實我也有看到你們今天報告有寫到一個你們去年7月1號有發布這個溫室氣體減量額度的交易拍賣跟移轉管理辦法對不對它截至今年的4月11日起有受理了63案的這個專案註冊申請那通過了16案那環境部在去年辦理5場次的這個自願減量專案的說明會共計908人參加那我就想說那你們今年預估要辦幾場是不是可以擴大辦理\n\n17\n00:05:34,037 --> 00:06:01,585\n報告委員這個我們正在演繹這個預計會有非常多場來跟產業來溝通中部也會去進行所以到時候也請委員多跟我們知道我們預計會有很多場去做產業面對面的溝通因為有時候我們設想的問題不見得每一個廠商都可以對一定要現場溝通所以我今天問題就是說這個部分有沒有預計新的一年要辦多少場非常多目前我們自己隨便算大概都三四十場以上好很好謝謝\n\n18\n00:06:02,805 --> 00:06:23,961\n因為目前上一年是五場看到如果有這樣子的成效可以繼續再辦理下去我們也會支持另外就是在淨零轉型的部分當然不僅是挑戰也是機遇那根據2024年的中華民國溫室氣體的排放清測報告在能源部分燃料的燃燒還是仍然是主要的排放來源那超過了50%\n\n19\n00:06:25,262 --> 00:06:37,518\n那你今天的書面報告也有提到說石化燃料提升就提高了他競爭力變成主流也是可以預見的但是反過來說台灣經歷這麼多年了這些再生能源風電啊等等等等的其實\n\n20\n00:06:38,834 --> 00:07:00,383\n不僅可以看到未來是有這個極限的存在也不可能真正取代所謂的石化能源的目標那簡單來講現在我們真的也是進度落後所以剛剛其實有委員問到有關於這個非核家園這個神主牌我是想要請問當然現在立法院的在野黨很多的立委也有提案要來修這個法\n\n21\n00:07:01,403 --> 00:07:15,749\n但我想要請問一下因為這個過程中想要問部長你的態度是什麼因為你剛剛有講到有媒體錯誤報導錯誤引用是不是就是有擷取部分可是然後你說這個應該是在全方位任性委員會討論不是在你的氣候變遷委員會討論可是這個部分我覺得我也沒有很認同我覺得氣候變遷委員會應該也要討論因為這跟碳排也有很大的關係所以我就想要問那部長你自己的態度到底是什麼\n\n22\n00:07:31,315 --> 00:07:41,266\n包委員因為我當時在算這個淨零的路徑的時候這個的確是一個選項但是我自己真的去算了之後發現有很多的可執行的難度的問題\n\n23\n00:07:42,778 --> 00:08:04,864\n錢很多廢料安全的問題斷層的問題這個都不是我可以解決的那包含現在包含美國也有很多是支持也質疑我們的執政團隊為什麼這個選項不選擇啊那我沒關係我只是想問你個人的表態啊因為總不能夠為什麼這時候要問啊就是你總是要表態說你究竟認為這個是不是一個可行的方案而且你支持不支持\n\n24\n00:08:05,704 --> 00:08:22,846\n這困難可以克服包含修法也是一種困難可是總不能說之前我質詢過我們的院長也說之前的另外一位部長也說你們先修法通過但問題是好啊修法通過了你們會執行嗎這就是我的問題所以我希望部長在這個部分是不是可以表態一下\n\n25\n00:08:23,206 --> 00:08:52,341\n不過包委員因為我不是核能的主管機關我也不是能源主管機關我們從淨零碳排的確是可以給一些意見那事實上從這個角度你支持嗎我認為當然這個其實它有很多複雜的因素例如說像我們過去的核電廠是沒有環評的也不知道當時的地理的狀況現在到這個時間點如果也要做要完整的去做處理這個以我們環評的經驗花上幾年都跑不掉所以基本上我會覺得是說這個很多困難挑戰所以你認為\n\n26\n00:08:52,841 --> 00:09:15,845\n你不支持我不是不支持就是說真的要說起來很困難部長不是不支持只是過程中有很多挑戰基本上我是開放來看這個事情任何好的能源好的方式我們都開放來討論但是這的確有它歷史的共業因為過去決定這個事情不是那麼民主的來執行的嘛現在所以這個問題要做真的很辛苦啦那所以部長還是不願意表態支持不支持那如果立法院修法通過之後你會支持嗎\n\n27\n00:09:16,992 --> 00:09:39,724\n我會遵照大院的這個建議但是我必須也提醒這個委員這個要真的要做是非常辛苦的因為台灣沒有這樣的經驗過好那最後一個問題台中有民眾響應我們的環保回收那並遵照這個減三排三大步驟操作後將手機回收結果殊不知啊他回收的隔天開始他的ApplePay\n\n28\n00:09:40,191 --> 00:10:02,417\n竟然被盜用還盜刷了高鐵票而且共73筆的交易高達10萬元以上重點是整個過程中他也沒有收到任何交易的簡訊通知那想要請教部長一下面對民眾響應這個環保回收而且即便已經遵照了步驟來操作卻仍遭到盜刷跟資料外洩的事情是否會讓民眾不敢再響應這個環保活動\n\n29\n00:10:04,940 --> 00:10:22,697\n這個委員我今天才知道這個事情我再來請我們了解一下你知道嗎這個部分我們我們再了解一下那麻煩部長了解一下因為我想這個是一件本來是善意但發生這個事可能會影響到大家的這個回收的意願OK好謝謝好謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝六委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7463\t9087\t謝謝主席 有請我們彭部長\n14998\t36915\t我想今天應該大家都很關心川普總統上台之後他再次表明退出巴黎氣候協定根據國際能源總署的評估美國退出協定可能導致全球減碳的努力損失將近20%以上的動能這個決定當然對我們全球的氣候治理影響非常大\n37932\t57828\t那麼再加上現在美國關稅的政策轉彎讓我們出口產業的這個淨零轉型會造成大的壓力那台灣企業也面臨著關稅壁壘跟這個碳邊境調整機制的雙重挑戰剛剛講過但是我們也有看到有看到一個是40%的出口企業表示可能會放緩這個\n59609\t81555\t碳減排的投資那根據你的報告也有寫到美國政策造成了全球綠能投資的信心或減碳的企圖受挫是可以預見的那畢竟對於整個企業來說投入這個減碳是提高很多的成本再加上現在的關稅那可能直接導致所謂的企業獲利下降甚至虧損倒閉的問題我也接續著剛剛我們求證局委員在問這兩難的困境\n87168\t94240\t初步你也有討論在你的受訪裡面有講到可能初步全國的碳費規模就會破300億左右50到60億然後後面會再增加\n97403\t117514\t那再來就是關稅的部分也根據經濟部的推廣的影響也非常的高那我想要請問一下部長目前面對現在的這個整體的不管是關稅的衝擊啊等等的對於企業美國的這個政策轉變我們政府有沒有更詳盡的量化分析評估它對於這個國內產業淨零轉型的具體衝擊是多少\n120256\t132168\t好 幫國委員其實第一個是要知道它的關稅最後是版本是什麼因為其實每天都在變所以其實我們是滾動式的在調整你們有照這個層次去做一個比較細緻的分析嗎比如說講到10% 20%或32%\n136111\t158210\t還沒有到那麼細緻因為畢竟關稅它的這個代表的意義跟它的量體比這個碳大很多所以我們基本上是看完之後也看這個相關產業的發展然後最後決定說像這樣的結論就是我們預估可能的一個情境但是實際上有多少信心減少多少投資減少多少這個還要再一段時間才能估算的出來\n158951\t187102\t那你們可以依照現在因為你至少就10%的現在就是10%嘛那未來可能還會再提高那對於這樣子有沒有一個比較細緻的量化的分析因為目前這個我們的電子業的影響雖然是有但是沒有想像中來得這麼的高那台灣的主要的碳費很大的來源現在是半導體業的影響那當然啦石化產業或鋼鐵業他過去幾年經營得比較辛苦所以其實我們現在對於那種需要\n188123\t197353\t幫忙的部分我們也會爭取的經費跟經濟部一起來合作協助產業轉型好謝謝這就是接下來要問的因為你也看到你說具體的減碳目標是不會改變的\n197932\t220574\t那我想要問在這樣的情況之下你們會不會針對尤其是我們中部有這些重災區啊有很多的中小企業像你說鋼鐵或甚至一些機械業等等的有沒有可能採取這個降低減碳目標或者是針對特定的或者是暫緩收取碳費的方式來協助這些企業來達到這個轉型的可行的措施\n221235\t244213\t那你也有提到一些專案補助的輔導那具體的內容是什麼因為這個都會影響到如何協助企業在這麼複雜的國際環境中可以堅定的推進淨零轉型好謝謝委員因為整個中南部有很多的扣件業者特別是螺絲的業者他們疏歐他們都很擔心不過跟委員報告其實因為目前的扣件業者只有一家要收碳費\n245074\t269617\t大概他大概交的話大概只要交18萬如果按照他什麼都不做檢探18萬就好了所以其實影響是很小的那第二個呢他對蘇歐可能會有影響可是目前的CBAN他的目前的草案是50噸以上才要再收所以50噸的對多數的企業特別是中小企業蘇歐其實沒有那麼高所以請中小企業其實可以放心那目前的我們會加強跟歐盟的聯繫如果\n269997\t279762\t因為目前的擴建業者基本上大多只有一家要收而已其他多數都不用收碳費所以目前我們會積極的來保障他們在歐盟的協商的部分能夠銜接的上\n280373\t303368\t那針對去美國的這些出口的企業呢目前美國出口的跟碳是比較沒有什麼影響因為美國沒有美國的CBAN但是問題是說我覺得產業在這波關稅的挑戰之下它的轉型是最重要的轉型兩個一個是綠色轉型一個是數位轉型那這個部分我們會跟經濟部一起積極來合作協助這種所謂的會碳排的產業\n304188\t322142\t對 因為其實我也有看到你們今天報告有寫到一個你們去年7月1號有發布這個溫室氣體減量額度的交易拍賣跟移轉管理辦法對不對 它截至今年的4月11日起有受理了63案的這個專案註冊申請那通過了16案那環境部在去年辦理5場次的這個自願減量專案的說明會共計908人參加那我就想說那你們今年預估要辦幾場是不是可以擴大辦理\n334037\t361585\t報告委員 這個我們正在演繹這個預計會有非常多場來跟產業來溝通中部也會去進行所以到時候也請委員多跟我們知道我們預計會有很多場去做產業面對面的溝通因為有時候我們設想的問題不見得每一個廠商都可以對 一定要現場溝通所以我今天問題就是說這個部分有沒有預計新的一年要辦多少場非常多目前我們自己隨便算大概都三四十場以上好 很好 謝謝\n362805\t383961\t因為目前上一年是五場看到如果有這樣子的成效可以繼續再辦理下去我們也會支持另外就是在淨零轉型的部分當然不僅是挑戰也是機遇那根據2024年的中華民國溫室氣體的排放清測報告在能源部分燃料的燃燒還是仍然是主要的排放來源那超過了50%\n385262\t397518\t那你今天的書面報告也有提到說石化燃料提升就提高了他競爭力變成主流也是可以預見的但是反過來說台灣經歷這麼多年了這些再生能源風電啊等等等等的其實\n398834\t420383\t不僅可以看到未來是有這個極限的存在也不可能真正取代所謂的石化能源的目標那簡單來講現在我們真的也是進度落後所以剛剛其實有委員問到有關於這個非核家園這個神主牌我是想要請問當然現在立法院的在野黨很多的立委也有提案要來修這個法\n421403\t435749\t但我想要請問一下因為這個過程中想要問部長你的態度是什麼因為你剛剛有講到有媒體錯誤報導錯誤引用是不是就是有擷取部分可是然後你說這個應該是在全方位任性委員會討論不是在你的氣候變遷委員會討論可是這個部分我覺得我也沒有很認同我覺得氣候變遷委員會應該也要討論因為這跟碳排也有很大的關係所以我就想要問那部長你自己的態度到底是什麼\n451315\t461266\t包委員因為我當時在算這個淨零的路徑的時候這個的確是一個選項但是我自己真的去算了之後發現有很多的可執行的難度的問題\n462778\t484864\t錢很多 廢料 安全的問題 斷層的問題這個都不是我可以解決的那包含現在 包含美國也有很多是支持也質疑我們的執政團隊為什麼這個選項不選擇啊那我 沒關係我只是想問你個人的表態啊因為總不能夠 為什麼這時候要問啊就是你總是要表態說你究竟認為這個是不是一個可行的方案而且你支持不支持\n485704\t502846\t這困難可以克服 包含修法也是一種困難可是總不能說 之前我質詢過我們的院長也說 之前的另外一位部長也說你們先修法通過但問題是 好啊 修法通過了你們會執行嗎這就是我的問題所以我希望部長在這個部分是不是可以表態一下\n503206\t532341\t不過包委員因為我不是核能的主管機關我也不是能源主管機關我們從淨零碳排的確是可以給一些意見那事實上從這個角度你支持嗎我認為當然這個其實它有很多複雜的因素例如說像我們過去的核電廠是沒有環評的也不知道當時的地理的狀況現在到這個時間點如果也要做要完整的去做處理這個以我們環評的經驗花上幾年都跑不掉所以基本上我會覺得是說這個很多困難挑戰所以你認為\n532841\t555845\t你不支持我不是不支持就是說真的要說起來很困難部長不是不支持只是過程中有很多挑戰基本上我是開放來看這個事情任何好的能源好的方式我們都開放來討論但是這的確有它歷史的共業因為過去決定這個事情不是那麼民主的來執行的嘛現在所以這個問題要做真的很辛苦啦那所以部長還是不願意表態支持不支持那如果立法院修法通過之後你會支持嗎\n556992\t579724\t我會遵照大院的這個建議但是我必須也提醒這個委員這個要真的要做是非常辛苦的因為台灣沒有這樣的經驗過好那最後一個問題台中有民眾響應我們的環保回收那並遵照這個減三排三大步驟操作後將手機回收結果殊不知啊他回收的隔天開始他的Apple Pay\n580191\t602417\t竟然被盜用還盜刷了高鐵票而且共73筆的交易高達10萬元以上重點是整個過程中他也沒有收到任何交易的簡訊通知那想要請教部長一下面對民眾響應這個環保回收而且即便已經遵照了步驟來操作卻仍遭到盜刷跟資料外洩的事情是否會讓民眾不敢再響應這個環保活動\n604940\t622697\t這個委員我今天才知道這個事情我再來請我們了解一下你知道嗎這個部分我們我們再了解一下那麻煩部長了解一下因為我想這個是一件本來是善意但發生這個事可能會影響到大家的這個回收的意願OK好謝謝好謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝六委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請我們彭部長\n我想今天應該大家都很關心川普總統上台之後他再次表明退出巴黎氣候協定根據國際能源總署的評估美國退出協定可能導致全球減碳的努力損失將近20%以上的動能這個決定當然對我們全球的氣候治理影響非常大\n那麼再加上現在美國關稅的政策轉彎讓我們出口產業的這個淨零轉型會造成大的壓力那台灣企業也面臨著關稅壁壘跟這個碳邊境調整機制的雙重挑戰剛剛講過但是我們也有看到有看到一個是40%的出口企業表示可能會放緩這個\n碳減排的投資那根據你的報告也有寫到美國政策造成了全球綠能投資的信心或減碳的企圖受挫是可以預見的那畢竟對於整個企業來說投入這個減碳是提高很多的成本再加上現在的關稅那可能直接導致所謂的企業獲利下降甚至虧損倒閉的問題我也接續著剛剛我們求證局委員在問這兩難的困境\n初步你也有討論在你的受訪裡面有講到可能初步全國的碳費規模就會破300億左右50到60億然後後面會再增加\n那再來就是關稅的部分也根據經濟部的推廣的影響也非常的高那我想要請問一下部長目前面對現在的這個整體的不管是關稅的衝擊啊等等的對於企業美國的這個政策轉變我們政府有沒有更詳盡的量化分析評估它對於這個國內產業淨零轉型的具體衝擊是多少\n好 幫國委員其實第一個是要知道它的關稅最後是版本是什麼因為其實每天都在變所以其實我們是滾動式的在調整你們有照這個層次去做一個比較細緻的分析嗎比如說講到10% 20%或32%\n還沒有到那麼細緻因為畢竟關稅它的這個代表的意義跟它的量體比這個碳大很多所以我們基本上是看完之後也看這個相關產業的發展然後最後決定說像這樣的結論就是我們預估可能的一個情境但是實際上有多少信心減少多少投資減少多少這個還要再一段時間才能估算的出來\n那你們可以依照現在因為你至少就10%的現在就是10%嘛那未來可能還會再提高那對於這樣子有沒有一個比較細緻的量化的分析因為目前這個我們的電子業的影響雖然是有但是沒有想像中來得這麼的高那台灣的主要的碳費很大的來源現在是半導體業的影響那當然啦石化產業或鋼鐵業他過去幾年經營得比較辛苦所以其實我們現在對於那種需要\n幫忙的部分我們也會爭取的經費跟經濟部一起來合作協助產業轉型好謝謝這就是接下來要問的因為你也看到你說具體的減碳目標是不會改變的\n那我想要問在這樣的情況之下你們會不會針對尤其是我們中部有這些重災區啊有很多的中小企業像你說鋼鐵或甚至一些機械業等等的有沒有可能採取這個降低減碳目標或者是針對特定的或者是暫緩收取碳費的方式來協助這些企業來達到這個轉型的可行的措施\n那你也有提到一些專案補助的輔導那具體的內容是什麼因為這個都會影響到如何協助企業在這麼複雜的國際環境中可以堅定的推進淨零轉型好謝謝委員因為整個中南部有很多的扣件業者特別是螺絲的業者他們疏歐他們都很擔心不過跟委員報告其實因為目前的扣件業者只有一家要收碳費\n大概他大概交的話大概只要交18萬如果按照他什麼都不做檢探18萬就好了所以其實影響是很小的那第二個呢他對蘇歐可能會有影響可是目前的CBAN他的目前的草案是50噸以上才要再收所以50噸的對多數的企業特別是中小企業蘇歐其實沒有那麼高所以請中小企業其實可以放心那目前的我們會加強跟歐盟的聯繫如果\n因為目前的擴建業者基本上大多只有一家要收而已其他多數都不用收碳費所以目前我們會積極的來保障他們在歐盟的協商的部分能夠銜接的上\n那針對去美國的這些出口的企業呢目前美國出口的跟碳是比較沒有什麼影響因為美國沒有美國的CBAN但是問題是說我覺得產業在這波關稅的挑戰之下它的轉型是最重要的轉型兩個一個是綠色轉型一個是數位轉型那這個部分我們會跟經濟部一起積極來合作協助這種所謂的會碳排的產業\n對 因為其實我也有看到你們今天報告有寫到一個你們去年7月1號有發布這個溫室氣體減量額度的交易拍賣跟移轉管理辦法對不對 它截至今年的4月11日起有受理了63案的這個專案註冊申請那通過了16案那環境部在去年辦理5場次的這個自願減量專案的說明會共計908人參加那我就想說那你們今年預估要辦幾場是不是可以擴大辦理\n報告委員 這個我們正在演繹這個預計會有非常多場來跟產業來溝通中部也會去進行所以到時候也請委員多跟我們知道我們預計會有很多場去做產業面對面的溝通因為有時候我們設想的問題不見得每一個廠商都可以對 一定要現場溝通所以我今天問題就是說這個部分有沒有預計新的一年要辦多少場非常多目前我們自己隨便算大概都三四十場以上好 很好 謝謝\n因為目前上一年是五場看到如果有這樣子的成效可以繼續再辦理下去我們也會支持另外就是在淨零轉型的部分當然不僅是挑戰也是機遇那根據2024年的中華民國溫室氣體的排放清測報告在能源部分燃料的燃燒還是仍然是主要的排放來源那超過了50%\n那你今天的書面報告也有提到說石化燃料提升就提高了他競爭力變成主流也是可以預見的但是反過來說台灣經歷這麼多年了這些再生能源風電啊等等等等的其實\n不僅可以看到未來是有這個極限的存在也不可能真正取代所謂的石化能源的目標那簡單來講現在我們真的也是進度落後所以剛剛其實有委員問到有關於這個非核家園這個神主牌我是想要請問當然現在立法院的在野黨很多的立委也有提案要來修這個法\n但我想要請問一下因為這個過程中想要問部長你的態度是什麼因為你剛剛有講到有媒體錯誤報導錯誤引用是不是就是有擷取部分可是然後你說這個應該是在全方位任性委員會討論不是在你的氣候變遷委員會討論可是這個部分我覺得我也沒有很認同我覺得氣候變遷委員會應該也要討論因為這跟碳排也有很大的關係所以我就想要問那部長你自己的態度到底是什麼\n包委員因為我當時在算這個淨零的路徑的時候這個的確是一個選項但是我自己真的去算了之後發現有很多的可執行的難度的問題\n錢很多 廢料 安全的問題 斷層的問題這個都不是我可以解決的那包含現在 包含美國也有很多是支持也質疑我們的執政團隊為什麼這個選項不選擇啊那我 沒關係我只是想問你個人的表態啊因為總不能夠 為什麼這時候要問啊就是你總是要表態說你究竟認為這個是不是一個可行的方案而且你支持不支持\n這困難可以克服 包含修法也是一種困難可是總不能說 之前我質詢過我們的院長也說 之前的另外一位部長也說你們先修法通過但問題是 好啊 修法通過了你們會執行嗎這就是我的問題所以我希望部長在這個部分是不是可以表態一下\n不過包委員因為我不是核能的主管機關我也不是能源主管機關我們從淨零碳排的確是可以給一些意見那事實上從這個角度你支持嗎我認為當然這個其實它有很多複雜的因素例如說像我們過去的核電廠是沒有環評的也不知道當時的地理的狀況現在到這個時間點如果也要做要完整的去做處理這個以我們環評的經驗花上幾年都跑不掉所以基本上我會覺得是說這個很多困難挑戰所以你認為\n你不支持我不是不支持就是說真的要說起來很困難部長不是不支持只是過程中有很多挑戰基本上我是開放來看這個事情任何好的能源好的方式我們都開放來討論但是這的確有它歷史的共業因為過去決定這個事情不是那麼民主的來執行的嘛現在所以這個問題要做真的很辛苦啦那所以部長還是不願意表態支持不支持那如果立法院修法通過之後你會支持嗎\n我會遵照大院的這個建議但是我必須也提醒這個委員這個要真的要做是非常辛苦的因為台灣沒有這樣的經驗過好那最後一個問題台中有民眾響應我們的環保回收那並遵照這個減三排三大步驟操作後將手機回收結果殊不知啊他回收的隔天開始他的Apple Pay\n竟然被盜用還盜刷了高鐵票而且共73筆的交易高達10萬元以上重點是整個過程中他也沒有收到任何交易的簡訊通知那想要請教部長一下面對民眾響應這個環保回收而且即便已經遵照了步驟來操作卻仍遭到盜刷跟資料外洩的事情是否會讓民眾不敢再響應這個環保活動\n這個委員我今天才知道這個事情我再來請我們了解一下你知道嗎這個部分我們我們再了解一下那麻煩部長了解一下因為我想這個是一件本來是善意但發生這個事可能會影響到大家的這個回收的意願OK好謝謝好謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝六委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.463 --> 00:09.087\n謝謝主席有請我們彭部長\n\n00:14.998 --> 00:36.915\n我想今天應該大家都很關心川普總統上台之後他再次表明退出巴黎氣候協定根據國際能源總署的評估美國退出協定可能導致全球減碳的努力損失將近20%以上的動能這個決定當然對我們全球的氣候治理影響非常大\n\n00:37.932 --> 00:57.828\n那麼再加上現在美國關稅的政策轉彎讓我們出口產業的這個淨零轉型會造成大的壓力那台灣企業也面臨著關稅壁壘跟這個碳邊境調整機制的雙重挑戰剛剛講過但是我們也有看到有看到一個是40%的出口企業表示可能會放緩這個\n\n00:59.609 --> 01:21.555\n碳減排的投資那根據你的報告也有寫到美國政策造成了全球綠能投資的信心或減碳的企圖受挫是可以預見的那畢竟對於整個企業來說投入這個減碳是提高很多的成本再加上現在的關稅那可能直接導致所謂的企業獲利下降甚至虧損倒閉的問題我也接續著剛剛我們求證局委員在問這兩難的困境\n\n01:27.168 --> 01:34.240\n初步你也有討論在你的受訪裡面有講到可能初步全國的碳費規模就會破300億左右50到60億然後後面會再增加\n\n01:37.403 --> 01:57.514\n那再來就是關稅的部分也根據經濟部的推廣的影響也非常的高那我想要請問一下部長目前面對現在的這個整體的不管是關稅的衝擊啊等等的對於企業美國的這個政策轉變我們政府有沒有更詳盡的量化分析評估它對於這個國內產業淨零轉型的具體衝擊是多少\n\n02:00.256 --> 02:12.168\n好幫國委員其實第一個是要知道它的關稅最後是版本是什麼因為其實每天都在變所以其實我們是滾動式的在調整你們有照這個層次去做一個比較細緻的分析嗎比如說講到10%20%或32%\n\n02:16.111 --> 02:38.210\n還沒有到那麼細緻因為畢竟關稅它的這個代表的意義跟它的量體比這個碳大很多所以我們基本上是看完之後也看這個相關產業的發展然後最後決定說像這樣的結論就是我們預估可能的一個情境但是實際上有多少信心減少多少投資減少多少這個還要再一段時間才能估算的出來\n\n02:38.951 --> 03:07.102\n那你們可以依照現在因為你至少就10%的現在就是10%嘛那未來可能還會再提高那對於這樣子有沒有一個比較細緻的量化的分析因為目前這個我們的電子業的影響雖然是有但是沒有想像中來得這麼的高那台灣的主要的碳費很大的來源現在是半導體業的影響那當然啦石化產業或鋼鐵業他過去幾年經營得比較辛苦所以其實我們現在對於那種需要\n\n03:08.123 --> 03:17.353\n幫忙的部分我們也會爭取的經費跟經濟部一起來合作協助產業轉型好謝謝這就是接下來要問的因為你也看到你說具體的減碳目標是不會改變的\n\n03:17.932 --> 03:40.574\n那我想要問在這樣的情況之下你們會不會針對尤其是我們中部有這些重災區啊有很多的中小企業像你說鋼鐵或甚至一些機械業等等的有沒有可能採取這個降低減碳目標或者是針對特定的或者是暫緩收取碳費的方式來協助這些企業來達到這個轉型的可行的措施\n\n03:41.235 --> 04:04.213\n那你也有提到一些專案補助的輔導那具體的內容是什麼因為這個都會影響到如何協助企業在這麼複雜的國際環境中可以堅定的推進淨零轉型好謝謝委員因為整個中南部有很多的扣件業者特別是螺絲的業者他們疏歐他們都很擔心不過跟委員報告其實因為目前的扣件業者只有一家要收碳費\n\n04:05.074 --> 04:29.617\n大概他大概交的話大概只要交18萬如果按照他什麼都不做檢探18萬就好了所以其實影響是很小的那第二個呢他對蘇歐可能會有影響可是目前的CBAN他的目前的草案是50噸以上才要再收所以50噸的對多數的企業特別是中小企業蘇歐其實沒有那麼高所以請中小企業其實可以放心那目前的我們會加強跟歐盟的聯繫如果\n\n04:29.997 --> 04:39.762\n因為目前的擴建業者基本上大多只有一家要收而已其他多數都不用收碳費所以目前我們會積極的來保障他們在歐盟的協商的部分能夠銜接的上\n\n04:40.373 --> 05:03.368\n那針對去美國的這些出口的企業呢目前美國出口的跟碳是比較沒有什麼影響因為美國沒有美國的CBAN但是問題是說我覺得產業在這波關稅的挑戰之下它的轉型是最重要的轉型兩個一個是綠色轉型一個是數位轉型那這個部分我們會跟經濟部一起積極來合作協助這種所謂的會碳排的產業\n\n05:04.188 --> 05:22.142\n對因為其實我也有看到你們今天報告有寫到一個你們去年7月1號有發布這個溫室氣體減量額度的交易拍賣跟移轉管理辦法對不對它截至今年的4月11日起有受理了63案的這個專案註冊申請那通過了16案那環境部在去年辦理5場次的這個自願減量專案的說明會共計908人參加那我就想說那你們今年預估要辦幾場是不是可以擴大辦理\n\n05:34.037 --> 06:01.585\n報告委員這個我們正在演繹這個預計會有非常多場來跟產業來溝通中部也會去進行所以到時候也請委員多跟我們知道我們預計會有很多場去做產業面對面的溝通因為有時候我們設想的問題不見得每一個廠商都可以對一定要現場溝通所以我今天問題就是說這個部分有沒有預計新的一年要辦多少場非常多目前我們自己隨便算大概都三四十場以上好很好謝謝\n\n06:02.805 --> 06:23.961\n因為目前上一年是五場看到如果有這樣子的成效可以繼續再辦理下去我們也會支持另外就是在淨零轉型的部分當然不僅是挑戰也是機遇那根據2024年的中華民國溫室氣體的排放清測報告在能源部分燃料的燃燒還是仍然是主要的排放來源那超過了50%\n\n06:25.262 --> 06:37.518\n那你今天的書面報告也有提到說石化燃料提升就提高了他競爭力變成主流也是可以預見的但是反過來說台灣經歷這麼多年了這些再生能源風電啊等等等等的其實\n\n06:38.834 --> 07:00.383\n不僅可以看到未來是有這個極限的存在也不可能真正取代所謂的石化能源的目標那簡單來講現在我們真的也是進度落後所以剛剛其實有委員問到有關於這個非核家園這個神主牌我是想要請問當然現在立法院的在野黨很多的立委也有提案要來修這個法\n\n07:01.403 --> 07:15.749\n但我想要請問一下因為這個過程中想要問部長你的態度是什麼因為你剛剛有講到有媒體錯誤報導錯誤引用是不是就是有擷取部分可是然後你說這個應該是在全方位任性委員會討論不是在你的氣候變遷委員會討論可是這個部分我覺得我也沒有很認同我覺得氣候變遷委員會應該也要討論因為這跟碳排也有很大的關係所以我就想要問那部長你自己的態度到底是什麼\n\n07:31.315 --> 07:41.266\n包委員因為我當時在算這個淨零的路徑的時候這個的確是一個選項但是我自己真的去算了之後發現有很多的可執行的難度的問題\n\n07:42.778 --> 08:04.864\n錢很多廢料安全的問題斷層的問題這個都不是我可以解決的那包含現在包含美國也有很多是支持也質疑我們的執政團隊為什麼這個選項不選擇啊那我沒關係我只是想問你個人的表態啊因為總不能夠為什麼這時候要問啊就是你總是要表態說你究竟認為這個是不是一個可行的方案而且你支持不支持\n\n08:05.704 --> 08:22.846\n這困難可以克服包含修法也是一種困難可是總不能說之前我質詢過我們的院長也說之前的另外一位部長也說你們先修法通過但問題是好啊修法通過了你們會執行嗎這就是我的問題所以我希望部長在這個部分是不是可以表態一下\n\n08:23.206 --> 08:52.341\n不過包委員因為我不是核能的主管機關我也不是能源主管機關我們從淨零碳排的確是可以給一些意見那事實上從這個角度你支持嗎我認為當然這個其實它有很多複雜的因素例如說像我們過去的核電廠是沒有環評的也不知道當時的地理的狀況現在到這個時間點如果也要做要完整的去做處理這個以我們環評的經驗花上幾年都跑不掉所以基本上我會覺得是說這個很多困難挑戰所以你認為\n\n08:52.841 --> 09:15.845\n你不支持我不是不支持就是說真的要說起來很困難部長不是不支持只是過程中有很多挑戰基本上我是開放來看這個事情任何好的能源好的方式我們都開放來討論但是這的確有它歷史的共業因為過去決定這個事情不是那麼民主的來執行的嘛現在所以這個問題要做真的很辛苦啦那所以部長還是不願意表態支持不支持那如果立法院修法通過之後你會支持嗎\n\n09:16.992 --> 09:39.724\n我會遵照大院的這個建議但是我必須也提醒這個委員這個要真的要做是非常辛苦的因為台灣沒有這樣的經驗過好那最後一個問題台中有民眾響應我們的環保回收那並遵照這個減三排三大步驟操作後將手機回收結果殊不知啊他回收的隔天開始他的ApplePay\n\n09:40.191 --> 10:02.417\n竟然被盜用還盜刷了高鐵票而且共73筆的交易高達10萬元以上重點是整個過程中他也沒有收到任何交易的簡訊通知那想要請教部長一下面對民眾響應這個環保回收而且即便已經遵照了步驟來操作卻仍遭到盜刷跟資料外洩的事情是否會讓民眾不敢再響應這個環保活動\n\n10:04.940 --> 10:22.697\n這個委員我今天才知道這個事情我再來請我們了解一下你知道嗎這個部分我們我們再了解一下那麻煩部長了解一下因為我想這個是一件本來是善意但發生這個事可能會影響到大家的這個回收的意願OK好謝謝好謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝六委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.463,"end":9.087,"text":"謝謝主席 有請我們彭部長"},{"start":14.998,"end":36.915,"text":"我想今天應該大家都很關心川普總統上台之後他再次表明退出巴黎氣候協定根據國際能源總署的評估美國退出協定可能導致全球減碳的努力損失將近20%以上的動能這個決定當然對我們全球的氣候治理影響非常大"},{"start":37.932,"end":57.828,"text":"那麼再加上現在美國關稅的政策轉彎讓我們出口產業的這個淨零轉型會造成大的壓力那台灣企業也面臨著關稅壁壘跟這個碳邊境調整機制的雙重挑戰剛剛講過但是我們也有看到有看到一個是40%的出口企業表示可能會放緩這個"},{"start":59.609,"end":81.555,"text":"碳減排的投資那根據你的報告也有寫到美國政策造成了全球綠能投資的信心或減碳的企圖受挫是可以預見的那畢竟對於整個企業來說投入這個減碳是提高很多的成本再加上現在的關稅那可能直接導致所謂的企業獲利下降甚至虧損倒閉的問題我也接續著剛剛我們求證局委員在問這兩難的困境"},{"start":87.168,"end":94.24,"text":"初步你也有討論在你的受訪裡面有講到可能初步全國的碳費規模就會破300億左右50到60億然後後面會再增加"},{"start":97.403,"end":117.514,"text":"那再來就是關稅的部分也根據經濟部的推廣的影響也非常的高那我想要請問一下部長目前面對現在的這個整體的不管是關稅的衝擊啊等等的對於企業美國的這個政策轉變我們政府有沒有更詳盡的量化分析評估它對於這個國內產業淨零轉型的具體衝擊是多少"},{"start":120.256,"end":132.168,"text":"好 幫國委員其實第一個是要知道它的關稅最後是版本是什麼因為其實每天都在變所以其實我們是滾動式的在調整你們有照這個層次去做一個比較細緻的分析嗎比如說講到10% 20%或32%"},{"start":136.111,"end":158.21,"text":"還沒有到那麼細緻因為畢竟關稅它的這個代表的意義跟它的量體比這個碳大很多所以我們基本上是看完之後也看這個相關產業的發展然後最後決定說像這樣的結論就是我們預估可能的一個情境但是實際上有多少信心減少多少投資減少多少這個還要再一段時間才能估算的出來"},{"start":158.951,"end":187.102,"text":"那你們可以依照現在因為你至少就10%的現在就是10%嘛那未來可能還會再提高那對於這樣子有沒有一個比較細緻的量化的分析因為目前這個我們的電子業的影響雖然是有但是沒有想像中來得這麼的高那台灣的主要的碳費很大的來源現在是半導體業的影響那當然啦石化產業或鋼鐵業他過去幾年經營得比較辛苦所以其實我們現在對於那種需要"},{"start":188.123,"end":197.353,"text":"幫忙的部分我們也會爭取的經費跟經濟部一起來合作協助產業轉型好謝謝這就是接下來要問的因為你也看到你說具體的減碳目標是不會改變的"},{"start":197.932,"end":220.574,"text":"那我想要問在這樣的情況之下你們會不會針對尤其是我們中部有這些重災區啊有很多的中小企業像你說鋼鐵或甚至一些機械業等等的有沒有可能採取這個降低減碳目標或者是針對特定的或者是暫緩收取碳費的方式來協助這些企業來達到這個轉型的可行的措施"},{"start":221.235,"end":244.213,"text":"那你也有提到一些專案補助的輔導那具體的內容是什麼因為這個都會影響到如何協助企業在這麼複雜的國際環境中可以堅定的推進淨零轉型好謝謝委員因為整個中南部有很多的扣件業者特別是螺絲的業者他們疏歐他們都很擔心不過跟委員報告其實因為目前的扣件業者只有一家要收碳費"},{"start":245.074,"end":269.617,"text":"大概他大概交的話大概只要交18萬如果按照他什麼都不做檢探18萬就好了所以其實影響是很小的那第二個呢他對蘇歐可能會有影響可是目前的CBAN他的目前的草案是50噸以上才要再收所以50噸的對多數的企業特別是中小企業蘇歐其實沒有那麼高所以請中小企業其實可以放心那目前的我們會加強跟歐盟的聯繫如果"},{"start":269.997,"end":279.762,"text":"因為目前的擴建業者基本上大多只有一家要收而已其他多數都不用收碳費所以目前我們會積極的來保障他們在歐盟的協商的部分能夠銜接的上"},{"start":280.373,"end":303.368,"text":"那針對去美國的這些出口的企業呢目前美國出口的跟碳是比較沒有什麼影響因為美國沒有美國的CBAN但是問題是說我覺得產業在這波關稅的挑戰之下它的轉型是最重要的轉型兩個一個是綠色轉型一個是數位轉型那這個部分我們會跟經濟部一起積極來合作協助這種所謂的會碳排的產業"},{"start":304.188,"end":322.142,"text":"對 因為其實我也有看到你們今天報告有寫到一個你們去年7月1號有發布這個溫室氣體減量額度的交易拍賣跟移轉管理辦法對不對 它截至今年的4月11日起有受理了63案的這個專案註冊申請那通過了16案那環境部在去年辦理5場次的這個自願減量專案的說明會共計908人參加那我就想說那你們今年預估要辦幾場是不是可以擴大辦理"},{"start":334.037,"end":361.585,"text":"報告委員 這個我們正在演繹這個預計會有非常多場來跟產業來溝通中部也會去進行所以到時候也請委員多跟我們知道我們預計會有很多場去做產業面對面的溝通因為有時候我們設想的問題不見得每一個廠商都可以對 一定要現場溝通所以我今天問題就是說這個部分有沒有預計新的一年要辦多少場非常多目前我們自己隨便算大概都三四十場以上好 很好 謝謝"},{"start":362.805,"end":383.961,"text":"因為目前上一年是五場看到如果有這樣子的成效可以繼續再辦理下去我們也會支持另外就是在淨零轉型的部分當然不僅是挑戰也是機遇那根據2024年的中華民國溫室氣體的排放清測報告在能源部分燃料的燃燒還是仍然是主要的排放來源那超過了50%"},{"start":385.262,"end":397.518,"text":"那你今天的書面報告也有提到說石化燃料提升就提高了他競爭力變成主流也是可以預見的但是反過來說台灣經歷這麼多年了這些再生能源風電啊等等等等的其實"},{"start":398.834,"end":420.383,"text":"不僅可以看到未來是有這個極限的存在也不可能真正取代所謂的石化能源的目標那簡單來講現在我們真的也是進度落後所以剛剛其實有委員問到有關於這個非核家園這個神主牌我是想要請問當然現在立法院的在野黨很多的立委也有提案要來修這個法"},{"start":421.403,"end":435.749,"text":"但我想要請問一下因為這個過程中想要問部長你的態度是什麼因為你剛剛有講到有媒體錯誤報導錯誤引用是不是就是有擷取部分可是然後你說這個應該是在全方位任性委員會討論不是在你的氣候變遷委員會討論可是這個部分我覺得我也沒有很認同我覺得氣候變遷委員會應該也要討論因為這跟碳排也有很大的關係所以我就想要問那部長你自己的態度到底是什麼"},{"start":451.315,"end":461.266,"text":"包委員因為我當時在算這個淨零的路徑的時候這個的確是一個選項但是我自己真的去算了之後發現有很多的可執行的難度的問題"},{"start":462.778,"end":484.864,"text":"錢很多 廢料 安全的問題 斷層的問題這個都不是我可以解決的那包含現在 包含美國也有很多是支持也質疑我們的執政團隊為什麼這個選項不選擇啊那我 沒關係我只是想問你個人的表態啊因為總不能夠 為什麼這時候要問啊就是你總是要表態說你究竟認為這個是不是一個可行的方案而且你支持不支持"},{"start":485.704,"end":502.846,"text":"這困難可以克服 包含修法也是一種困難可是總不能說 之前我質詢過我們的院長也說 之前的另外一位部長也說你們先修法通過但問題是 好啊 修法通過了你們會執行嗎這就是我的問題所以我希望部長在這個部分是不是可以表態一下"},{"start":503.206,"end":532.341,"text":"不過包委員因為我不是核能的主管機關我也不是能源主管機關我們從淨零碳排的確是可以給一些意見那事實上從這個角度你支持嗎我認為當然這個其實它有很多複雜的因素例如說像我們過去的核電廠是沒有環評的也不知道當時的地理的狀況現在到這個時間點如果也要做要完整的去做處理這個以我們環評的經驗花上幾年都跑不掉所以基本上我會覺得是說這個很多困難挑戰所以你認為"},{"start":532.841,"end":555.845,"text":"你不支持我不是不支持就是說真的要說起來很困難部長不是不支持只是過程中有很多挑戰基本上我是開放來看這個事情任何好的能源好的方式我們都開放來討論但是這的確有它歷史的共業因為過去決定這個事情不是那麼民主的來執行的嘛現在所以這個問題要做真的很辛苦啦那所以部長還是不願意表態支持不支持那如果立法院修法通過之後你會支持嗎"},{"start":556.992,"end":579.724,"text":"我會遵照大院的這個建議但是我必須也提醒這個委員這個要真的要做是非常辛苦的因為台灣沒有這樣的經驗過好那最後一個問題台中有民眾響應我們的環保回收那並遵照這個減三排三大步驟操作後將手機回收結果殊不知啊他回收的隔天開始他的Apple Pay"},{"start":580.191,"end":602.417,"text":"竟然被盜用還盜刷了高鐵票而且共73筆的交易高達10萬元以上重點是整個過程中他也沒有收到任何交易的簡訊通知那想要請教部長一下面對民眾響應這個環保回收而且即便已經遵照了步驟來操作卻仍遭到盜刷跟資料外洩的事情是否會讓民眾不敢再響應這個環保活動"},{"start":604.94,"end":622.697,"text":"這個委員我今天才知道這個事情我再來請我們了解一下你知道嗎這個部分我們我們再了解一下那麻煩部長了解一下因為我想這個是一件本來是善意但發生這個事可能會影響到大家的這個回收的意願OK好謝謝好謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝六委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":527,"blocks":[["廖委員偉翔：（10時26分）謝謝主席，有請彭部長。"],["主席：部長。"],["彭部長啓明：廖委員好。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長好。我想今天大家應該都很關心川普總統上臺之後，他再次表明退出巴黎氣候協定，根據國際能源總署的評估，美國退出協定可能導致全球減碳的努力損失將近20%以上的動能，這個決定當然對全球的氣候治理影響非常大。再加上現在美國關稅的政策轉彎，對我們出口產業的淨零轉型造成很大的壓力，臺灣企業也面臨著關稅壁壘跟碳邊境調整機制的雙重挑戰，剛剛講過了。但是我們也看到有40%的出口企業表示可能會放緩碳減排的投資。你的報告也有寫到，美國政策造成了全球綠能投資的信心或減碳的企圖受挫是可以預見的，畢竟對於整個企業來說，投入減碳要提高很多的成本，再加上現在的關稅，可能直接導致所謂的企業獲利下降，甚至虧損倒閉的問題。我也接續著剛剛邱鎮軍委員在問的，這兩難的困境，你也在你的受訪裡面有講到，可能初步全國的碳費規模就會破300億左右……"],["彭部長啓明：沒有，50到60億。"],["廖委員偉翔：50到60億？"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["廖委員偉翔：然後後面會再增加。再來就是關稅的部分，根據經濟部推估的影響也非常高，我想要請問一下部長，目前面對現在整體的不管是關稅的衝擊等等，對於美國的政策轉變，政府有沒有更詳盡的量化分析評估？它對於國內產業淨零轉型的具體衝擊是多少？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，其實第一個是要知道他的關稅最後的版本是什麼，因為每天都在變，所以我們是滾動式的在調整，那……"],["廖委員偉翔：你們有照這個層次去做一個比較細緻的分析嗎？比如假設10%、20%或32%。"],["彭部長啓明：還沒有到這麼細緻，畢竟關稅所代表的意義跟它的量體比碳大很多，還要大很多，所以我們基本上是看完之後，也看相關產業的發展，然後最後決定這樣的結論就是我們預估可能的情境，但是實際上有多少，信心數減少多少、投資減少多少，這個還要再一段時間才能估算得出來。"],["廖委員偉翔：那你們可以依照現在，因為現在就是10%，那未來可能還會再提高，對於這樣子有沒有一個比較細緻的量化分析？"],["彭部長啓明：因為目前我們電子業的影響雖然是有，但是沒有想像中來得這麼的高，那臺灣主要的碳費，很大的來源現在是半導體業的影響，當然石化產業或鋼鐵業過去幾年經營得比較辛苦，所以現在對於那種需要幫忙的部分，我們也會爭取經費，跟經濟部一起來合作，協助產業轉型。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，謝謝。這就是接下來要問的，因為你說具體的減碳目標是不會改變的，那我想要問，在這樣的情況之下，你們會不會針對……尤其是我們中部有重災區，有很多的中小企業，像你說的鋼鐵或甚至是一些機械業等等，有沒有可能採取降低減碳的目標或者是針對特定的企業暫緩收取碳費的方式，來協助這些企業達到轉型的可行措施？你也有提到一些專案補助的輔導，具體的內容是什麼？因為這個都會影響到如何協助企業，在這麼複雜的國際環境中還可以堅定的推進淨零轉型。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝委員。整個中南部有很多的扣件業者，特別是螺絲的業者，他們輸歐都很擔心，不過跟委員報告，因為目前的扣件業者只有1家要收碳費，他交的話，大概只要交18萬。如果減碳他什麼都不做，繳18萬就好了，所以其實影響是很小的。","第二個，對他輸歐可能會有影響，可是目前CBAM的草案是50噸以上才要收，多數的企業，特別是中小企業，輸歐其實沒有那麼高，請中小企業可以放心，目前我們會加強跟歐盟聯繫。因為目前的扣件業者基本上只有1家要收而已，其他多數都不用收碳費，所以目前我們會積極來保障他們在歐盟的協商部分能夠銜接得上。"],["廖委員偉翔：針對這些出口去美國的企業呢？"],["彭部長啓明：目前出口美國的跟碳是比較沒有什麼影響，因為美國沒有美國的CBAM，但問題是我覺得產業在這波關稅的挑戰之下，它的轉型是最重要的，轉型有兩個，一個是綠色轉型，一個是數位轉型，這個部分我們會跟經濟部一起積極來合作，協助這種所謂會碳排的產業。"],["廖委員偉翔：對，其實我有看到你們今天的報告有寫到，你們去年7月1日有發布「溫室氣體減量額度交易拍賣及移轉管理辦法」，對不對？截至今年的4月11日止，有受理了63案的專案註冊申請，通過了16案。環境部在去年辦理5場次自願減量專案的說明會，共計908人參加。我就想你們今年預估要辦幾場，是不是可以擴大辦理？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我們正在研議，預計會有非常多場來跟產業溝通，中部也會進行，到時候也請委員多給我們指導……"],["廖委員偉翔：好，很好！"],["彭部長啓明：我們預計會有很多場去做產業面對面的溝通，因為有時候我們設想的問題不見得都可以符合每一個廠商的需求。"],["廖委員偉翔：當然，對，一定要現場溝通，所以我今天的問題是這個部分有沒有預計新的一年要辦多少場？"],["彭部長啓明：非常多，目前我們自己隨便算，大概都30、40場以上。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，很好！謝謝。上一年是5場，既然有這樣子的成效，可以繼續再辦理下去，我們也會支持。"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝。"],["廖委員偉翔：另外，淨零轉型不僅是挑戰，也是機遇。根據2024年中華民國國家溫室氣體排放清冊報告，能源部門燃料的燃燒仍然是主要的排放來源，超過了50%，你今天的書面報告也有提到，石化燃料提高競爭力變成主流也是可以預見的，而且反過來說，臺灣經歷這麼多年這些再生能源、風電等等的，其實不僅可以看到未來是有極限的存在，也不可能達到真正取代所謂石化能源的目標。簡單來講，現在我們真的也是進度落後。剛剛有委員問到，有關非核家園這個神主牌，當然現在立法院在野黨很多立委也有提案要來修這個法，但我想要請問一下部長，這個過程中，你的態度是什麼？因為你剛剛講到有媒體錯誤報導、錯誤引用，是不是？就是……"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["廖委員偉翔：擷取部分，你說這個應該是在全社會防衛韌性委員會討論，不是在你的氣候變遷委員會討論。"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["廖委員偉翔：可是這個部分我也沒有很認同，我覺得氣候變遷委員會應該也要討論，因為這跟碳排也有很大的關係，所以我就想要問，部長，你自己的態度到底是什麼？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我當時在算淨零路徑，這的確是一個選項，但是我自己真的去算了之後，發現有很多可執行的難度問題，錢很多、核廢料……"],["廖委員偉翔：很多問題……"],["彭部長啓明：安全的問題、斷層的問題，這些都不是我可以解決的。"],["廖委員偉翔：現在包含美國有很多是支持，也質疑我們的執政團隊為什麼不選擇這個選項。沒關係！我只是想問你個人的表態，為什麼這個時候要問？就是你總是要表態你究竟認為這個是不是一個可行的方案，而且你支不支持，這個困難可以克服，包含修法也是一種困難。之前我質詢過，另外一位部長，他說我們先修法通過，但問題是修法通過了，你們會支持、會執行嗎？這就是我的問題，所以我希望部長在這個部分是不是可以表態一下？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，因為我不是核能的主管機關，也不是能源主管機關，我們從淨零碳排的確是可以給一些意見，事實上……"],["廖委員偉翔：從淨零碳排的角度，你支持嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：我認為這個其實有很多複雜的因素，例如過去的核電廠是沒有環評的，也不知道當時的地理狀況，現在到這個時間點，如果要做，要完整的去處理，以我們環評的經驗，這個花上幾年都跑不掉，所以基本上我會覺得這個有很多的困難、挑戰。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以你認為你不支持？"],["彭部長啓明：我不是不支持，只是說真的要做起來很困難。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以部長不是不支持，只是認為過程中有很多挑戰？"],["彭部長啓明：委員，基本上，我是開放來看這個事情，任何好的能源、好的方式，我們都開放來討論，但是這的確有它歷史的共業，因為過去決定這個事情不是那麼民主的來執行，所以現在這個要做真的很辛苦。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以部長還是不願意表態支持不支持，如果立法院修法通過之後，你會支持嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：我會遵照大院的建議，但是我也必須提醒委員，這個真的要做是非常辛苦的，因為臺灣沒有這樣的經驗過。"],["廖委員偉翔：好。最後一個問題，臺中有民眾響應環保回收，並遵照檢、刪、排三大步驟操作後，將手機回收，結果殊不知他回收的隔天開始，他的Apple Pay竟然被盜用，還盜刷了高鐵票，而且共73筆的交易，高達10萬元以上，重點是整個過程中，他沒有收到任何交易的簡訊通知。想要請教部長一下，民眾響應環保回收，即便已經遵照了步驟來操作，卻仍遭到盜刷及資料外洩的事情，是否會讓民眾不敢再響應這個環保活動？"],["彭部長啓明：委員，我今天才知道這個事情，我們了解一下，再跟委員回復。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，麻煩部長了解一下，因為我想這個本來是善意的，但發生這個事，可能會影響到大家的回收意願。"],["彭部長啓明：好……"],["廖委員偉翔：好，謝謝。"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝委員，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝廖委員，謝謝部長。現在休息10分鐘。","休息（10時36分）","繼續開會（10時48分）"],["主席（林委員淑芬代）：繼續開會。","下一位請劉建國委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":512,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-6","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","盧縣一","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","涂權吉","林淑芬","黃秀芳","翁曉玲","洪孟楷","王正旭","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳培瑜","張啓楷","楊曜","陳瑩","蘇清泉","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":427,"meetingDate":["2025-04-17"],"gazette_id":"1143801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部部長、經濟部、外交部就「因應美國退出巴黎氣候協定並提出對等關稅，對國內\n產業淨零轉型造成衝擊」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、邀請環境部部長、勞動部、教育部、經\n濟部針對「國內校園、賣場及工作場域之室內空氣污染物管理及防制精進作為」進行專題報告，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143801_00007"}}}