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\"start\": 468.1, \"end\": 468.12, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,256 --> 00:00:18,790\n主席還有我們府院同仁大家好我是不是先請吳副主委有請我們吳副主委或者陳院長大家一起來探討有關於我們這個組織成立本席這邊關心的一些議題\n\n2\n00:00:21,701 --> 00:00:45,886\n這個國家海洋科技營運中心設置條例的草案一目前送出來的這個方案是希望能夠透過行政法人然後藉由制度鬆綁跟企業化的管理來提升我們海洋科技的研究跟調查的能力但是這個草案的一些實施的細節制度的設計跟未來的運作我們希望能夠有一些這些疑問能夠一些釐清例如這個是比較整個系統性的問題\n\n3\n00:00:46,926 --> 00:01:02,849\n所以行政法的模式是不是能夠真正落實公眾利益跟績效的這個監督這是一個問題那第二個部分是高度專業的人才的培育跟留任的計畫可不可以有具體的一個策略然後跟誘因\n\n4\n00:01:03,530 --> 00:01:20,503\n這是本席今天第二大的系統問題那還有新設的營運中心如何跟我們現在在高雄興達港那麼多眾多的海洋科技的設施進行明顯的這個分工跟資源的整合也不會重疊跟浪費所以本席今天就針對這幾項來跟這個貴委員會做一個討論\n\n5\n00:01:26,788 --> 00:01:52,696\n所以一開始就是針對行政法人的國家海洋科技營運中心那麼在加速人士經費採購制度的靈活運用上可能是要行政法人這樣一個主軸來做處理但是過度強調彈性跟效率那伴隨來的風險就是公務監督的難度增加然後還有公共財產管理的透明度也降低了\n\n6\n00:01:53,456 --> 00:02:09,354\n然後還有預算資金運用缺乏妥善管理的這個問題那很重要在這個草案當中我也沒有看到相對的比較明確的評鑑指標標準跟落實的方式那如果沒有能夠達到你們所訂定的績效那整個究責的問題\n\n7\n00:02:10,896 --> 00:02:39,382\n所以本席這邊想要請教一下海委會如何能夠確保我們這樣一個企業化管理模式的國家海洋科技營運中心能夠符合公共利益在人事鬆綁之後內控機制會弱化利益迴避是不是會相對困難可不可以進一步來說明剛才本席也提到的有關於人員培訓設備營運效能的具體考核項目跟問責的程序\n\n8\n00:02:40,382 --> 00:02:50,321\n那如果沒有能夠達到你們預期的效益那除了所謂的效益不彰草案中規定的解散機制以外你們還有什麼樣子的應對措施嗎\n\n9\n00:02:52,199 --> 00:03:14,036\n麻煩副主委先跟委員報告就是他必須要用行政法人來設立的這樣的一個必要性就是剛剛提到他有非常多需要專業人才的一個禁用然後運作上的一個彈性讓他保持那個效能的部分那委員剛剛關切的包括這個監督的機制啦或者是會不會有一些評估的指標啦或者是會計制度等等\n\n10\n00:03:14,776 --> 00:03:43,266\n那這個在我們的條例裡面呢授權未來要訂定相關的一些執法來做這個相關的制度的一個建制那這樣子的一個規定也是參照其他法人其他行政法人現有我們國家大概有11個行政法人我們參照那個其他行政法人的立法體力然後用授權執法的方式未來會把委員關切的這些問題包括他的這個績效指標等等的都會在執法裡面來做一個更詳細的一個律定\n\n11\n00:03:44,147 --> 00:03:58,173\n好的謝謝副主委所以在海委會在監督這個執法或行政命令的這個訂定的同時也請你們注意你們立法的這個意旨那不要讓這些後續的這個作為糟蹭了\n\n12\n00:03:59,571 --> 00:04:11,821\n好那第二個部分因為其實你們用這樣子的一個組織最重要的就是人才的培育所以本席這邊要談的是人才培訓跟留任的這個問題如果你們能夠有這麼多專業人才那你們一直強調船舶的操作海洋的調查還有設備的操作船舶設計跟資料分析等等那這個對於我們在海上經常接觸的人都非常的重要\n\n13\n00:04:25,372 --> 00:04:49,045\n但是你們草案目前只有談到人才培訓的同步進行可是卻沒有講到這個相對的具體的時程跟培訓的這個制度所以這也是本席又回到剛才講的效度上的一個問題那對於這個法案通過之後呢那後續的這個部分其實能夠怎麼樣來真正的檢視真的也請你們多加注意\n\n14\n00:04:49,805 --> 00:05:18,558\n但是這邊我們談到的這個人力的培訓其實成本很高那如果沒有合理的薪資升遷管道還有人才養成的這個路徑那我們也可能讓這個中心變成從人才的訓練中心變成人才的儲備中心因此你們能不能具體的交代那未來國家海洋科技營運中心在專業人才培訓的計畫詳細的實行具體的內容還有如何確保人員的留任\n\n15\n00:05:19,198 --> 00:05:36,497\n那這個部分呢其實關係到我們整個海洋技術的研發人才那目前你們有沒有什麼樣子的一個規劃謝謝立委提問我們現在目前船舶部分已經有第一批已經完成第一批的人才培訓了包括國內跟國外的\n\n16\n00:05:38,679 --> 00:05:56,332\n現在目前就是還會在明年開始又會針對船模船模的製造就是做把大船變成小船的那個船模製造也會啟動這個所謂的國內人才的一個培訓那當然我們也希望啦這一些透過培訓的這些人才能夠留任下來\n\n17\n00:05:57,173 --> 00:06:07,759\n然後接下去我們法輪成立的時候順便就可以直接來過去那這部分也是我們努力的目標成立委員提到所以我們會在新制的部分也會做這樣子的一個考量\n\n18\n00:06:09,144 --> 00:06:32,140\n好的那本席這邊希望會後能夠給我補充一下那個時程還有訓練的一個細節好不好你們留任最主要是留任的誘因喔好那最後呢我還是為我們所在的這個高雄來請命興達港已經形成一個龐大的海洋的這個發展區域中心那麼經濟部有海洋科技產業專區在這邊喔國研院那個海洋科研中心\n\n19\n00:06:32,700 --> 00:06:53,276\n那另外你們海委會自身的國家船模實驗室跟國海院的試驗園區那整個那麼多的重大設施在這邊那整個區域範圍這麼大那有這麼多的單位你們如何在現有的機構上的定位的一個分工模式去做一個處理那當然很重要的就是說那請問你們在跨部會協調的初步方案目前是如何規劃的\n\n20\n00:06:58,580 --> 00:07:07,284\n還有未來新設的營運中心有沒有融合園區整體佈局避免土地資源分散重疊使用的情形這個針對\n\n21\n00:07:10,220 --> 00:07:33,703\n這個跨部會我想這個是我們未來都會遇到的這個問題那當然我再回應一下剛才前面有聽到委員對於國安的這個問題非常的重視但是像本席經常在海上對於資訊的公共性也是非常的關心因為好多在海上的水文相關的資訊我們沒有的話那在海上其實也是個困難\n\n22\n00:07:34,745 --> 00:07:48,120\n對國外想要來台灣的人也是一種困難你們如何在國安跟台灣的國際化中間取到一個平衡那這個部分是不是可以在會後給本席一個相關的報告跟回應好嗎好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5256\t18790\t主席還有我們府院同仁大家好我是不是先請吳副主委有請我們吳副主委或者陳院長大家一起來探討有關於我們這個組織成立本席這邊關心的一些議題\n21701\t45886\t這個國家海洋科技營運中心設置條例的草案一目前送出來的這個方案是希望能夠透過行政法人然後藉由制度鬆綁跟企業化的管理來提升我們海洋科技的研究跟調查的能力但是這個草案的一些實施的細節制度的設計跟未來的運作我們希望能夠有一些這些疑問能夠一些釐清例如這個是比較整個系統性的問題\n46926\t62849\t所以行政法的模式是不是能夠真正落實公眾利益跟績效的這個監督這是一個問題那第二個部分是高度專業的人才的培育跟留任的計畫可不可以有具體的一個策略然後跟誘因\n63530\t80503\t這是本席今天第二大的系統問題那還有新設的營運中心如何跟我們現在在高雄興達港那麼多眾多的海洋科技的設施進行明顯的這個分工跟資源的整合也不會重疊跟浪費所以本席今天就針對這幾項來跟這個貴委員會做一個討論\n86788\t112696\t所以一開始就是針對行政法人的國家海洋科技營運中心那麼在加速人士經費採購制度的靈活運用上可能是要行政法人這樣一個主軸來做處理但是過度強調彈性跟效率那伴隨來的風險就是公務監督的難度增加然後還有公共財產管理的透明度也降低了\n113456\t129354\t然後還有預算資金運用缺乏妥善管理的這個問題那很重要在這個草案當中我也沒有看到相對的比較明確的評鑑指標標準跟落實的方式那如果沒有能夠達到你們所訂定的績效那整個究責的問題\n130896\t159382\t所以本席這邊想要請教一下海委會如何能夠確保我們這樣一個企業化管理模式的國家海洋科技營運中心能夠符合公共利益在人事鬆綁之後內控機制會弱化利益迴避是不是會相對困難可不可以進一步來說明剛才本席也提到的有關於人員培訓設備營運效能的具體考核項目跟問責的程序\n160382\t170321\t那如果沒有能夠達到你們預期的效益那除了所謂的效益不彰草案中規定的解散機制以外你們還有什麼樣子的應對措施嗎\n172199\t194036\t麻煩副主委先跟委員報告就是他必須要用行政法人來設立的這樣的一個必要性就是剛剛提到他有非常多需要專業人才的一個禁用然後運作上的一個彈性讓他保持那個效能的部分那委員剛剛關切的包括這個監督的機制啦或者是會不會有一些評估的指標啦或者是會計制度等等\n194776\t223266\t那這個在我們的條例裡面呢授權未來要訂定相關的一些執法來做這個相關的制度的一個建制那這樣子的一個規定也是參照其他法人其他行政法人現有我們國家大概有11個行政法人我們參照那個其他行政法人的立法體力然後用授權執法的方式未來會把委員關切的這些問題包括他的這個績效指標等等的都會在執法裡面來做一個更詳細的一個律定\n224147\t238173\t好的謝謝副主委所以在海委會在監督這個執法或行政命令的這個訂定的同時也請你們注意你們立法的這個意旨那不要讓這些後續的這個作為糟蹭了\n239571\t251821\t好 那第二個部分因為其實你們用這樣子的一個組織最重要的就是人才的培育所以本席這邊要談的是人才培訓跟留任的這個問題如果你們能夠有這麼多專業人才那你們一直強調船舶的操作 海洋的調查還有設備的操作 船舶設計跟資料分析等等那這個對於我們在海上經常接觸的人都非常的重要\n265372\t289045\t但是你們草案目前只有談到人才培訓的同步進行可是卻沒有講到這個相對的具體的時程跟培訓的這個制度所以這也是本席又回到剛才講的效度上的一個問題那對於這個法案通過之後呢那後續的這個部分其實能夠怎麼樣來真正的檢視真的也請你們多加注意\n289805\t318558\t但是這邊我們談到的這個人力的培訓其實成本很高那如果沒有合理的薪資升遷管道還有人才養成的這個路徑那我們也可能讓這個中心變成從人才的訓練中心變成人才的儲備中心因此你們能不能具體的交代那未來國家海洋科技營運中心在專業人才培訓的計畫詳細的實行具體的內容還有如何確保人員的留任\n319198\t336497\t那這個部分呢其實關係到我們整個海洋技術的研發人才那目前你們有沒有什麼樣子的一個規劃謝謝立委提問我們現在目前船舶部分已經有第一批已經完成第一批的人才培訓了包括國內跟國外的\n338679\t356332\t現在目前就是還會在明年開始又會針對船模 船模的製造就是做把大船變成小船的那個船模製造也會啟動這個所謂的國內人才的一個培訓那當然我們也希望啦這一些透過培訓的這些人才能夠留任下來\n357173\t367759\t然後接下去我們法輪成立的時候順便就可以直接來過去那這部分也是我們努力的目標成立委員提到所以我們會在新制的部分也會做這樣子的一個考量\n369144\t392140\t好的 那本席這邊希望會後能夠給我補充一下那個時程還有訓練的一個細節 好不好你們留任 最主要是留任的誘因喔好 那最後呢 我還是為我們所在的這個高雄來請命興達港已經形成一個龐大的海洋的這個發展區域中心那麼經濟部有海洋科技產業專區在這邊喔國研院 那個海洋科研中心\n392700\t413276\t那另外你們海委會自身的國家船模實驗室跟國海院的試驗園區那整個那麼多的重大設施在這邊那整個區域範圍這麼大那有這麼多的單位你們如何在現有的機構上的定位的一個分工模式去做一個處理那當然很重要的就是說那請問你們在跨部會協調的初步方案目前是如何規劃的\n418580\t427284\t還有未來新設的營運中心有沒有融合園區整體佈局避免土地資源分散重疊使用的情形這個針對\n430220\t453703\t這個跨部會我想這個是我們未來都會遇到的這個問題那當然我再回應一下剛才前面有聽到委員對於國安的這個問題非常的重視但是像本席經常在海上對於資訊的公共性也是非常的關心因為好多在海上的水文相關的資訊我們沒有的話那在海上其實也是個困難\n454745\t468120\t對國外想要來台灣的人也是一種困難你們如何在國安跟台灣的國際化中間取到一個平衡那這個部分是不是可以在會後給本席一個相關的報告跟回應好嗎 好 謝謝\n","txt":"主席還有我們府院同仁大家好我是不是先請吳副主委有請我們吳副主委或者陳院長大家一起來探討有關於我們這個組織成立本席這邊關心的一些議題\n這個國家海洋科技營運中心設置條例的草案一目前送出來的這個方案是希望能夠透過行政法人然後藉由制度鬆綁跟企業化的管理來提升我們海洋科技的研究跟調查的能力但是這個草案的一些實施的細節制度的設計跟未來的運作我們希望能夠有一些這些疑問能夠一些釐清例如這個是比較整個系統性的問題\n所以行政法的模式是不是能夠真正落實公眾利益跟績效的這個監督這是一個問題那第二個部分是高度專業的人才的培育跟留任的計畫可不可以有具體的一個策略然後跟誘因\n這是本席今天第二大的系統問題那還有新設的營運中心如何跟我們現在在高雄興達港那麼多眾多的海洋科技的設施進行明顯的這個分工跟資源的整合也不會重疊跟浪費所以本席今天就針對這幾項來跟這個貴委員會做一個討論\n所以一開始就是針對行政法人的國家海洋科技營運中心那麼在加速人士經費採購制度的靈活運用上可能是要行政法人這樣一個主軸來做處理但是過度強調彈性跟效率那伴隨來的風險就是公務監督的難度增加然後還有公共財產管理的透明度也降低了\n然後還有預算資金運用缺乏妥善管理的這個問題那很重要在這個草案當中我也沒有看到相對的比較明確的評鑑指標標準跟落實的方式那如果沒有能夠達到你們所訂定的績效那整個究責的問題\n所以本席這邊想要請教一下海委會如何能夠確保我們這樣一個企業化管理模式的國家海洋科技營運中心能夠符合公共利益在人事鬆綁之後內控機制會弱化利益迴避是不是會相對困難可不可以進一步來說明剛才本席也提到的有關於人員培訓設備營運效能的具體考核項目跟問責的程序\n那如果沒有能夠達到你們預期的效益那除了所謂的效益不彰草案中規定的解散機制以外你們還有什麼樣子的應對措施嗎\n麻煩副主委先跟委員報告就是他必須要用行政法人來設立的這樣的一個必要性就是剛剛提到他有非常多需要專業人才的一個禁用然後運作上的一個彈性讓他保持那個效能的部分那委員剛剛關切的包括這個監督的機制啦或者是會不會有一些評估的指標啦或者是會計制度等等\n那這個在我們的條例裡面呢授權未來要訂定相關的一些執法來做這個相關的制度的一個建制那這樣子的一個規定也是參照其他法人其他行政法人現有我們國家大概有11個行政法人我們參照那個其他行政法人的立法體力然後用授權執法的方式未來會把委員關切的這些問題包括他的這個績效指標等等的都會在執法裡面來做一個更詳細的一個律定\n好的謝謝副主委所以在海委會在監督這個執法或行政命令的這個訂定的同時也請你們注意你們立法的這個意旨那不要讓這些後續的這個作為糟蹭了\n好 那第二個部分因為其實你們用這樣子的一個組織最重要的就是人才的培育所以本席這邊要談的是人才培訓跟留任的這個問題如果你們能夠有這麼多專業人才那你們一直強調船舶的操作 海洋的調查還有設備的操作 船舶設計跟資料分析等等那這個對於我們在海上經常接觸的人都非常的重要\n但是你們草案目前只有談到人才培訓的同步進行可是卻沒有講到這個相對的具體的時程跟培訓的這個制度所以這也是本席又回到剛才講的效度上的一個問題那對於這個法案通過之後呢那後續的這個部分其實能夠怎麼樣來真正的檢視真的也請你們多加注意\n但是這邊我們談到的這個人力的培訓其實成本很高那如果沒有合理的薪資升遷管道還有人才養成的這個路徑那我們也可能讓這個中心變成從人才的訓練中心變成人才的儲備中心因此你們能不能具體的交代那未來國家海洋科技營運中心在專業人才培訓的計畫詳細的實行具體的內容還有如何確保人員的留任\n那這個部分呢其實關係到我們整個海洋技術的研發人才那目前你們有沒有什麼樣子的一個規劃謝謝立委提問我們現在目前船舶部分已經有第一批已經完成第一批的人才培訓了包括國內跟國外的\n現在目前就是還會在明年開始又會針對船模 船模的製造就是做把大船變成小船的那個船模製造也會啟動這個所謂的國內人才的一個培訓那當然我們也希望啦這一些透過培訓的這些人才能夠留任下來\n然後接下去我們法輪成立的時候順便就可以直接來過去那這部分也是我們努力的目標成立委員提到所以我們會在新制的部分也會做這樣子的一個考量\n好的 那本席這邊希望會後能夠給我補充一下那個時程還有訓練的一個細節 好不好你們留任 最主要是留任的誘因喔好 那最後呢 我還是為我們所在的這個高雄來請命興達港已經形成一個龐大的海洋的這個發展區域中心那麼經濟部有海洋科技產業專區在這邊喔國研院 那個海洋科研中心\n那另外你們海委會自身的國家船模實驗室跟國海院的試驗園區那整個那麼多的重大設施在這邊那整個區域範圍這麼大那有這麼多的單位你們如何在現有的機構上的定位的一個分工模式去做一個處理那當然很重要的就是說那請問你們在跨部會協調的初步方案目前是如何規劃的\n還有未來新設的營運中心有沒有融合園區整體佈局避免土地資源分散重疊使用的情形這個針對\n這個跨部會我想這個是我們未來都會遇到的這個問題那當然我再回應一下剛才前面有聽到委員對於國安的這個問題非常的重視但是像本席經常在海上對於資訊的公共性也是非常的關心因為好多在海上的水文相關的資訊我們沒有的話那在海上其實也是個困難\n對國外想要來台灣的人也是一種困難你們如何在國安跟台灣的國際化中間取到一個平衡那這個部分是不是可以在會後給本席一個相關的報告跟回應好嗎 好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.256 --> 00:18.790\n主席還有我們府院同仁大家好我是不是先請吳副主委有請我們吳副主委或者陳院長大家一起來探討有關於我們這個組織成立本席這邊關心的一些議題\n\n00:21.701 --> 00:45.886\n這個國家海洋科技營運中心設置條例的草案一目前送出來的這個方案是希望能夠透過行政法人然後藉由制度鬆綁跟企業化的管理來提升我們海洋科技的研究跟調查的能力但是這個草案的一些實施的細節制度的設計跟未來的運作我們希望能夠有一些這些疑問能夠一些釐清例如這個是比較整個系統性的問題\n\n00:46.926 --> 01:02.849\n所以行政法的模式是不是能夠真正落實公眾利益跟績效的這個監督這是一個問題那第二個部分是高度專業的人才的培育跟留任的計畫可不可以有具體的一個策略然後跟誘因\n\n01:03.530 --> 01:20.503\n這是本席今天第二大的系統問題那還有新設的營運中心如何跟我們現在在高雄興達港那麼多眾多的海洋科技的設施進行明顯的這個分工跟資源的整合也不會重疊跟浪費所以本席今天就針對這幾項來跟這個貴委員會做一個討論\n\n01:26.788 --> 01:52.696\n所以一開始就是針對行政法人的國家海洋科技營運中心那麼在加速人士經費採購制度的靈活運用上可能是要行政法人這樣一個主軸來做處理但是過度強調彈性跟效率那伴隨來的風險就是公務監督的難度增加然後還有公共財產管理的透明度也降低了\n\n01:53.456 --> 02:09.354\n然後還有預算資金運用缺乏妥善管理的這個問題那很重要在這個草案當中我也沒有看到相對的比較明確的評鑑指標標準跟落實的方式那如果沒有能夠達到你們所訂定的績效那整個究責的問題\n\n02:10.896 --> 02:39.382\n所以本席這邊想要請教一下海委會如何能夠確保我們這樣一個企業化管理模式的國家海洋科技營運中心能夠符合公共利益在人事鬆綁之後內控機制會弱化利益迴避是不是會相對困難可不可以進一步來說明剛才本席也提到的有關於人員培訓設備營運效能的具體考核項目跟問責的程序\n\n02:40.382 --> 02:50.321\n那如果沒有能夠達到你們預期的效益那除了所謂的效益不彰草案中規定的解散機制以外你們還有什麼樣子的應對措施嗎\n\n02:52.199 --> 03:14.036\n麻煩副主委先跟委員報告就是他必須要用行政法人來設立的這樣的一個必要性就是剛剛提到他有非常多需要專業人才的一個禁用然後運作上的一個彈性讓他保持那個效能的部分那委員剛剛關切的包括這個監督的機制啦或者是會不會有一些評估的指標啦或者是會計制度等等\n\n03:14.776 --> 03:43.266\n那這個在我們的條例裡面呢授權未來要訂定相關的一些執法來做這個相關的制度的一個建制那這樣子的一個規定也是參照其他法人其他行政法人現有我們國家大概有11個行政法人我們參照那個其他行政法人的立法體力然後用授權執法的方式未來會把委員關切的這些問題包括他的這個績效指標等等的都會在執法裡面來做一個更詳細的一個律定\n\n03:44.147 --> 03:58.173\n好的謝謝副主委所以在海委會在監督這個執法或行政命令的這個訂定的同時也請你們注意你們立法的這個意旨那不要讓這些後續的這個作為糟蹭了\n\n03:59.571 --> 04:11.821\n好那第二個部分因為其實你們用這樣子的一個組織最重要的就是人才的培育所以本席這邊要談的是人才培訓跟留任的這個問題如果你們能夠有這麼多專業人才那你們一直強調船舶的操作海洋的調查還有設備的操作船舶設計跟資料分析等等那這個對於我們在海上經常接觸的人都非常的重要\n\n04:25.372 --> 04:49.045\n但是你們草案目前只有談到人才培訓的同步進行可是卻沒有講到這個相對的具體的時程跟培訓的這個制度所以這也是本席又回到剛才講的效度上的一個問題那對於這個法案通過之後呢那後續的這個部分其實能夠怎麼樣來真正的檢視真的也請你們多加注意\n\n04:49.805 --> 05:18.558\n但是這邊我們談到的這個人力的培訓其實成本很高那如果沒有合理的薪資升遷管道還有人才養成的這個路徑那我們也可能讓這個中心變成從人才的訓練中心變成人才的儲備中心因此你們能不能具體的交代那未來國家海洋科技營運中心在專業人才培訓的計畫詳細的實行具體的內容還有如何確保人員的留任\n\n05:19.198 --> 05:36.497\n那這個部分呢其實關係到我們整個海洋技術的研發人才那目前你們有沒有什麼樣子的一個規劃謝謝立委提問我們現在目前船舶部分已經有第一批已經完成第一批的人才培訓了包括國內跟國外的\n\n05:38.679 --> 05:56.332\n現在目前就是還會在明年開始又會針對船模船模的製造就是做把大船變成小船的那個船模製造也會啟動這個所謂的國內人才的一個培訓那當然我們也希望啦這一些透過培訓的這些人才能夠留任下來\n\n05:57.173 --> 06:07.759\n然後接下去我們法輪成立的時候順便就可以直接來過去那這部分也是我們努力的目標成立委員提到所以我們會在新制的部分也會做這樣子的一個考量\n\n06:09.144 --> 06:32.140\n好的那本席這邊希望會後能夠給我補充一下那個時程還有訓練的一個細節好不好你們留任最主要是留任的誘因喔好那最後呢我還是為我們所在的這個高雄來請命興達港已經形成一個龐大的海洋的這個發展區域中心那麼經濟部有海洋科技產業專區在這邊喔國研院那個海洋科研中心\n\n06:32.700 --> 06:53.276\n那另外你們海委會自身的國家船模實驗室跟國海院的試驗園區那整個那麼多的重大設施在這邊那整個區域範圍這麼大那有這麼多的單位你們如何在現有的機構上的定位的一個分工模式去做一個處理那當然很重要的就是說那請問你們在跨部會協調的初步方案目前是如何規劃的\n\n06:58.580 --> 07:07.284\n還有未來新設的營運中心有沒有融合園區整體佈局避免土地資源分散重疊使用的情形這個針對\n\n07:10.220 --> 07:33.703\n這個跨部會我想這個是我們未來都會遇到的這個問題那當然我再回應一下剛才前面有聽到委員對於國安的這個問題非常的重視但是像本席經常在海上對於資訊的公共性也是非常的關心因為好多在海上的水文相關的資訊我們沒有的話那在海上其實也是個困難\n\n07:34.745 --> 07:48.120\n對國外想要來台灣的人也是一種困難你們如何在國安跟台灣的國際化中間取到一個平衡那這個部分是不是可以在會後給本席一個相關的報告跟回應好嗎好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.256,"end":18.79,"text":"主席還有我們府院同仁大家好我是不是先請吳副主委有請我們吳副主委或者陳院長大家一起來探討有關於我們這個組織成立本席這邊關心的一些議題"},{"start":21.701,"end":45.886,"text":"這個國家海洋科技營運中心設置條例的草案一目前送出來的這個方案是希望能夠透過行政法人然後藉由制度鬆綁跟企業化的管理來提升我們海洋科技的研究跟調查的能力但是這個草案的一些實施的細節制度的設計跟未來的運作我們希望能夠有一些這些疑問能夠一些釐清例如這個是比較整個系統性的問題"},{"start":46.926,"end":62.849,"text":"所以行政法的模式是不是能夠真正落實公眾利益跟績效的這個監督這是一個問題那第二個部分是高度專業的人才的培育跟留任的計畫可不可以有具體的一個策略然後跟誘因"},{"start":63.53,"end":80.503,"text":"這是本席今天第二大的系統問題那還有新設的營運中心如何跟我們現在在高雄興達港那麼多眾多的海洋科技的設施進行明顯的這個分工跟資源的整合也不會重疊跟浪費所以本席今天就針對這幾項來跟這個貴委員會做一個討論"},{"start":86.788,"end":112.696,"text":"所以一開始就是針對行政法人的國家海洋科技營運中心那麼在加速人士經費採購制度的靈活運用上可能是要行政法人這樣一個主軸來做處理但是過度強調彈性跟效率那伴隨來的風險就是公務監督的難度增加然後還有公共財產管理的透明度也降低了"},{"start":113.456,"end":129.354,"text":"然後還有預算資金運用缺乏妥善管理的這個問題那很重要在這個草案當中我也沒有看到相對的比較明確的評鑑指標標準跟落實的方式那如果沒有能夠達到你們所訂定的績效那整個究責的問題"},{"start":130.896,"end":159.382,"text":"所以本席這邊想要請教一下海委會如何能夠確保我們這樣一個企業化管理模式的國家海洋科技營運中心能夠符合公共利益在人事鬆綁之後內控機制會弱化利益迴避是不是會相對困難可不可以進一步來說明剛才本席也提到的有關於人員培訓設備營運效能的具體考核項目跟問責的程序"},{"start":160.382,"end":170.321,"text":"那如果沒有能夠達到你們預期的效益那除了所謂的效益不彰草案中規定的解散機制以外你們還有什麼樣子的應對措施嗎"},{"start":172.199,"end":194.036,"text":"麻煩副主委先跟委員報告就是他必須要用行政法人來設立的這樣的一個必要性就是剛剛提到他有非常多需要專業人才的一個禁用然後運作上的一個彈性讓他保持那個效能的部分那委員剛剛關切的包括這個監督的機制啦或者是會不會有一些評估的指標啦或者是會計制度等等"},{"start":194.776,"end":223.266,"text":"那這個在我們的條例裡面呢授權未來要訂定相關的一些執法來做這個相關的制度的一個建制那這樣子的一個規定也是參照其他法人其他行政法人現有我們國家大概有11個行政法人我們參照那個其他行政法人的立法體力然後用授權執法的方式未來會把委員關切的這些問題包括他的這個績效指標等等的都會在執法裡面來做一個更詳細的一個律定"},{"start":224.147,"end":238.173,"text":"好的謝謝副主委所以在海委會在監督這個執法或行政命令的這個訂定的同時也請你們注意你們立法的這個意旨那不要讓這些後續的這個作為糟蹭了"},{"start":239.571,"end":251.821,"text":"好 那第二個部分因為其實你們用這樣子的一個組織最重要的就是人才的培育所以本席這邊要談的是人才培訓跟留任的這個問題如果你們能夠有這麼多專業人才那你們一直強調船舶的操作 海洋的調查還有設備的操作 船舶設計跟資料分析等等那這個對於我們在海上經常接觸的人都非常的重要"},{"start":265.372,"end":289.045,"text":"但是你們草案目前只有談到人才培訓的同步進行可是卻沒有講到這個相對的具體的時程跟培訓的這個制度所以這也是本席又回到剛才講的效度上的一個問題那對於這個法案通過之後呢那後續的這個部分其實能夠怎麼樣來真正的檢視真的也請你們多加注意"},{"start":289.805,"end":318.558,"text":"但是這邊我們談到的這個人力的培訓其實成本很高那如果沒有合理的薪資升遷管道還有人才養成的這個路徑那我們也可能讓這個中心變成從人才的訓練中心變成人才的儲備中心因此你們能不能具體的交代那未來國家海洋科技營運中心在專業人才培訓的計畫詳細的實行具體的內容還有如何確保人員的留任"},{"start":319.198,"end":336.497,"text":"那這個部分呢其實關係到我們整個海洋技術的研發人才那目前你們有沒有什麼樣子的一個規劃謝謝立委提問我們現在目前船舶部分已經有第一批已經完成第一批的人才培訓了包括國內跟國外的"},{"start":338.679,"end":356.332,"text":"現在目前就是還會在明年開始又會針對船模 船模的製造就是做把大船變成小船的那個船模製造也會啟動這個所謂的國內人才的一個培訓那當然我們也希望啦這一些透過培訓的這些人才能夠留任下來"},{"start":357.173,"end":367.759,"text":"然後接下去我們法輪成立的時候順便就可以直接來過去那這部分也是我們努力的目標成立委員提到所以我們會在新制的部分也會做這樣子的一個考量"},{"start":369.144,"end":392.14,"text":"好的 那本席這邊希望會後能夠給我補充一下那個時程還有訓練的一個細節 好不好你們留任 最主要是留任的誘因喔好 那最後呢 我還是為我們所在的這個高雄來請命興達港已經形成一個龐大的海洋的這個發展區域中心那麼經濟部有海洋科技產業專區在這邊喔國研院 那個海洋科研中心"},{"start":392.7,"end":413.276,"text":"那另外你們海委會自身的國家船模實驗室跟國海院的試驗園區那整個那麼多的重大設施在這邊那整個區域範圍這麼大那有這麼多的單位你們如何在現有的機構上的定位的一個分工模式去做一個處理那當然很重要的就是說那請問你們在跨部會協調的初步方案目前是如何規劃的"},{"start":418.58,"end":427.284,"text":"還有未來新設的營運中心有沒有融合園區整體佈局避免土地資源分散重疊使用的情形這個針對"},{"start":430.22,"end":453.703,"text":"這個跨部會我想這個是我們未來都會遇到的這個問題那當然我再回應一下剛才前面有聽到委員對於國安的這個問題非常的重視但是像本席經常在海上對於資訊的公共性也是非常的關心因為好多在海上的水文相關的資訊我們沒有的話那在海上其實也是個困難"},{"start":454.745,"end":468.12,"text":"對國外想要來台灣的人也是一種困難你們如何在國安跟台灣的國際化中間取到一個平衡那這個部分是不是可以在會後給本席一個相關的報告跟回應好嗎 好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":515,"blocks":[["林委員倩綺：（10時43分）主席，還有府院同仁，大家好，是不是先請吳副主委？"],["主席：有請吳副主委。"],["林委員倩綺：或者陳院長也一起來探討這個組織的成立，本席所關心的一些議題。","以目前國家海洋科技營運中心設置條例所送出來的這個草案，是希望透過行政法人，藉由制度鬆綁跟企業化的管理，提升我們海洋科技的研究跟調查能力，但這個草案的一些實施細節、制度設計，及未來的運作，我們也希望有一些疑問能夠有所釐清。這個問題是比較系統性的問題，就是行政法人模式是不是能夠真正落實公眾利益跟績效的監督？這是第一個問題。第二個問題，高度專業人才的培育和留任計畫，可不可以有具體的策略和誘因？這是本席今天的第二個大的系統問題。還有新設的營運中心，如何和現在高雄興達港眾多的海洋科技設施進行明顯的分工跟資源整合，而不會重疊與浪費？本席今天就針對這幾項問題跟貴委員會做個討論。","一開始就是針對國家海洋科技營運中心在加速人事、經費、採購制度的靈活運用上，可能要由行政法人這樣一個主軸來處理，但是過度強調彈性跟效率，伴隨而來的風險就是公務監督的難度增加，公共財產管理的透明度也降低了，還有預算資金運用缺乏妥善管理的問題。很重要的，在這個草案當中，我也沒有看到相對比較明確的評鑑指標、標準跟落實的方式，以及如果沒有能夠達到你們所訂定績效究責的問題，所以本席想要請教一下，海委會如何確保企業化管理模式的國家海洋科技營運中心能夠符合公共利益？在人事鬆綁之後，內控機制會弱化，利益迴避是不是會相對困難？可不可以進一步來說明？剛才本席也提到，有關人員培訓、設備營運效能的具體考核項目跟問責的程序，如果沒有能夠達到你們預期的效益，除了所謂的效益不彰，草案中規定的解散機制以外，你們還有什麼樣的應對措施嗎？麻煩副主委，謝謝。"],["吳副主任委員美紅：必須要用行政法人來設立的必要性，就是剛剛提到它需要進用非常多專業人才，以及運作上的彈性讓它保持效能。委員剛剛關切的，包括監督的機制或者會不會有一些評估的指標，又或者會計制度等等，在條例裡面授權未來要訂定一些子法來建置相關制度。這樣的規定也是參照其他行政法人，我國現有大概11個行政法人，我們參照其他行政法人的立法體例，用授權子法的方式，未來會把委員關切的這些問題，包括績效指標等等，都會在子法裡面更詳細的律定。"],["林委員倩綺：謝謝副主委。海委會在監督子法或行政命令訂定的同時，也請注意你們立法的意旨，不要讓後續的作為「走鐘」。","第二個部分，其實你們用這樣的組織最重要的就是人才的培育，所以本席要談人才培訓跟留任的問題，如果你們能夠有這麼多專業人才。你們一直強調船舶的操作、海洋的調查，還有設備的操作、船模設計跟資料分析等等，對於在海上經常接觸的人都非常重要。草案目前只有談到人才培訓的同步進行，卻沒有講到相對具體的時程跟培訓制度，所以這又回到本席剛才講效度上的問題。對於這個法案通過之後，後續的部分能夠怎麼樣來真正的檢視，真的也請你們多加注意。但我要談的是，人力培訓的成本其實很高，如果沒有合理的薪資、升遷管道，還有人才養成路徑，我們也可能讓這個中心從人才的訓練中心變成人才的儲備中心，因此，你們能不能具體的交代，未來國家海洋科技營運中心在專業人才培訓的計畫、詳細的時程、具體的內容，還有如何確保人員的留任？這個部分關係到整個海洋技術的研發人才，目前你們有沒有什麼樣的規劃？"],["吳副主任委員美紅：國海院相關的規劃？"],["林委員倩綺：是。"],["陳院長璋玲：謝謝委員提問。目前船模的部分，已經完成第一批的人才培訓了，包括國內跟國外有12位。明年開始會針對船模的製造，就是把大船變成小船的船模製造，也會啟動所謂的國內人才培訓。當然我們也希望這一些透過培訓的人才能夠留任，接下來，我們法人成立的時候，就可以直接過去。這部分也是我們努力的目標，誠如委員提到的，而我們在薪資的部分也會做這樣的考量。"],["林委員倩綺：本席希望會後能夠給我補充一下時程還有訓練的細節，好不好？最主要是留任的誘因。","最後，我還是為我們所在的高雄來請命。興達港已經形成一個龐大的海洋發展區域中心，經濟部在這邊有海洋科技產業專區，國研院有海洋科研中心，另外還有海委會自身的國家船模實驗室跟國海院試驗園區。有那麼多的重大設施在這邊，整個區域範圍這麼大，有這麼多的單位，你們如何在現有的機構定位分工模式去處理？當然很重要的是，請問你們在跨部會協調的初步方案，目前是如何規劃的？還有未來新設的營運中心，有沒有融合園區整體布局，避免土地資源分散、重疊使用的情形？針對這個部分，我想是未來跨部會都會遇到的問題。","我再回應一下，剛才我聽到前面有委員對於國安的問題非常重視，像本席經常在海上，對於資訊的公共性也是非常關心，因為好多在海上的水文，我們沒有相關資訊的話，在海上其實也是個困難，對國外想要來臺灣的人也是一種困難。你們如何在國安跟臺灣的國際化中間取得平衡，這個部分是不是可以在會後給本席一個相關的報告跟回應，好嗎？謝謝。"],["吳副主任委員美紅：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林倩綺委員。","主席先作會議程序宣告：由於上午會議進行到現在都沒有休息，稍後在吳思瑤委員詢答完畢以後，休息5分鐘。","接下來有請翁曉玲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":318,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-36,15-1","speakers":["莊瑞雄","蘇巧慧","陳培瑜","黃國昌","沈發惠","麥玉珍","張智倫","張宏陸","王美惠","李柏毅","黃捷","林倩綺","翁曉玲","牛煦庭","吳思瑤","王鴻薇","王義川","羅智強","高金素梅","許宇甄","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":267,"meetingDate":["2025-04-17"],"gazette_id":"1143901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143901_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查行政院函請審議「國家海洋科技營運中心設置條例草案」案【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1143901_00011"}}}