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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,819 --> 00:00:31,246\n謝謝主席我們請部長請彭部長黃委員好部長我先這個就剛剛淑芬委員講的我們真的希望就是部長要認真的去思考一下那也要去了解真正去了解到底是什麼樣的原因那另外我先從我們地方的事情先講起就是說就剛剛淑芬委員講的\n\n2\n00:00:32,846 --> 00:00:54,081\n其實有很多事情如果說要由地方的環保局來做監測或審查的話其實有時候會有地方人情的壓力像彰化地區在這幾年當中我們看到在上禮拜六公共電視有一個紀錄片就記錄整個彰化可能沿海地區\n\n3\n00:00:54,881 --> 00:01:17,897\n的這個環境的污染那其中有一部分是這個廢棄土的這個污染那我知道其實我當立委到現在幾乎每一個會期都會特別提到就是說在我們的這個地方有很多有的是在那個比較人煙稀少的地方或者是在八卦山山脈山谷\n\n4\n00:01:18,465 --> 00:01:46,132\n被亂到廢土或者是廢棄物的這個部分那這個地方是在彰化的西南角那原本是一個可能一個生態的一個園區後來因為沒有繼續經營那後來就變成這樣的一座可能就是廢棄土堆置的一個地方那我希望部長能夠知道就是說其實我們有很多的這個廢棄物的\n\n5\n00:01:48,312 --> 00:02:07,320\n這個處理廠他們也許你們都有那個GPS的那個定位或者是有什麼樣的監測那可是就是說上有政策下有對策有很多在半途或者是先到某一處先堆置之後再有非法的這個車輛然後再\n\n6\n00:02:09,181 --> 00:02:30,175\n再去這個人煙稀少的地方去請到所以我不知道就是說我們環境部對於這樣的一個狀況未來怎麼樣去預防或者現在這樣的一個廢棄物亂到的這種情形其實還是非常的多那我不知道說環境部在部長的這個領導之下針對這樣的一個狀況那我們要怎麼去改進\n\n7\n00:02:34,544 --> 00:02:50,599\n報告委員第一個是這個是所謂的有兩個一個是營建剩餘土石方跟營建廢棄物這兩個部分那當然這兩個部分一個是內政部國土署管的一個是營建這個廢棄物是環境部循環署管的這兩個部位之間其實過去呢\n\n8\n00:02:51,500 --> 00:03:10,389\n總有一些模糊地帶那我們這邊是有連單在做處理那邊的土石方剛剛也有委員說他等於是會繞單出去所以目前兩個部會的確合在一起然後這個有中央我們兩個都願意來承擔做這個事情另外一個是這個也要跟地方政府因為彰化其實是本身\n\n9\n00:03:11,189 --> 00:03:34,469\n是被别人盗的所以其实我们现在是针对一些会输出的县市我们一个一个去谈那希望大家一起合作组成一个平台首先就是全流向的管理他一定要这个进出到尾巴都要确定不要像现在这样绕单的一个情况所以管理的机制要加强你们现在有这样做吗现在这样做因为也跟委员报告我们统计出来一年台湾大概是一千万\n\n10\n00:03:36,091 --> 00:03:49,780\n應該是差不多1000萬噸的這個量真的在拖到當中所以我們也真的認知到這個問題也跨部會在協調因為過去其實這個跨級到很多的單位大家可能會覺得我只好做好我自己的但是就產出這樣的問題\n\n11\n00:03:51,161 --> 00:04:05,593\n而且是三四十年來累積就這樣所以我們真的在處理但是還要一點點時間因為這個其實第一個需要經費第二個是很多部會的整合中央跟地方這個要一點點時間那我們現在工作的幾個月快要收尾了快要完成了\n\n12\n00:04:07,161 --> 00:04:32,760\n我們希望說這個問題能夠解決因為我也提了很多次那確實當時是說因為我們有GPS的衛星定位所以應該可以很容易去監測那結果真的是有一些不肖業者他就是用繞單的方式或者是先在某個地方堆置堆置完之後再載到其他非法的堆置場去所以我覺得這個問題應該要\n\n13\n00:04:35,241 --> 00:05:00,311\n確實真的要去解決要不然在我們的那個彰化有很多我剛剛講的八卦山的山谷或者是在這個彰化的西南角沿岸地區可能就是有一些廢棄的餘溫廢棄的那個農田都被堆滿了這樣的一個土石方或者是廢棄物的那種有的根本不知道它是什麼東西啦所以我覺得說也麻煩部長或者是跟國土署這邊真的要\n\n14\n00:05:04,892 --> 00:05:29,523\n盡速的將這個問題來解決這個我們在進行當中大概還要再幾個月跟委員保證這個是我們正在進行的當中有結果第一個會跟委員報告另外我想請教就是說在川普總統上任之後在4月初的對等關稅的問題在他上任的時候那時候也提出來一個就是要\n\n15\n00:05:30,183 --> 00:05:51,405\n退出巴黎氣候協定我想請教就是說在我們整個台灣的針對於淨零碳排或者是整個這樣的一個碳費會不會因為美國所提出來的譬如說退出巴黎氣候協定會不會有做什麼樣的調整\n\n16\n00:05:52,886 --> 00:06:18,113\n包委員因為碳費目前我們是初期是300塊、100塊、50塊而且又高碳洩漏我們是不要有綠色通膨造成企業很大負擔先求有再求好的概念去推動這個制度所以目前我們也有算一些受到產業的影響的這個公司其實影響很低但是其實也有一些產業他可能就活不下去所以我們的確但是這個還要等關稅這個最後結果出來之後我們應該會滾動的來做調整\n\n17\n00:06:22,014 --> 00:06:36,813\n等於是還是要幫助產業但是這個也是一個轉型的機會啦所以你們是會做一個調整如果說那個對我們台灣衝擊很大最後的報告出來那我們當然一定要政府是企業的後盾我們一定會必須要來做處理\n\n18\n00:06:38,094 --> 00:07:01,585\n我們也希望就是說因為台灣是外貿就是外銷取向的一個國家那在4月3號就是川普總統提出來這個對等關稅這個議題其實對於基層的像以彰化這邊中小企業居多那其實他們他們都差一點那有的甚至都沒有單所以對於就是說未來台灣可能\n\n19\n00:07:02,245 --> 00:07:17,476\n在某方面如果說對於我們的這個碳費或者是說這個美國這邊他們整個近年碳排如果他們自己本身都有做一些調整的話那有沒有可能就是說我們也會做一個滾動式的一個調整\n\n20\n00:07:18,737 --> 00:07:43,310\n所以這個也是這個地方非常關心的因為總是要讓地方能夠活得下去如果說活不下去的話其實也會影響到很多勞工的生計所以我也希望就是說環境部針對這一部分也是因為我們要跟國際接軌一方面我們要跟國際接軌那一方面又要讓我們所有的地方這些產業\n\n21\n00:07:46,171 --> 00:08:06,388\n能夠符合我們的規定那又可以生存下去所以我覺得環境部也是扮演一個非常重要的一個角色我們會滾動式來調整就是說我們會做企業的後盾絕對不會說這個時候還要如果說真的企業經營不下去也不是我們樂見的所以我們一定會滾動式來做調整來協助\n\n22\n00:08:09,771 --> 00:08:35,643\n另外我想請教一下就是說未來我們原本說2030年就是階段減碳目標就是有那個逐漸減碳那我想問一下就是在今天問一下部長就是針對你覺得說2030年你的這個減碳的目標有沒有鬆動或者是還是充滿著信心或者是你覺得說未來可能也會做一些調整\n\n23\n00:08:36,963 --> 00:08:56,536\n今天我有公布一個數字就是2023年我們的減碳跟2005比是4.64上一個數字是1.8表示我們台灣的減碳是有成效的那未來我們目前預估2024大概是5到6然後2025大概是8到9左右這樣的一個幅度所以我們按照這個趨勢下去當然我們28加減2\n\n24\n00:08:59,518 --> 00:09:16,454\n我是希望是至少要28但是萬一整個局勢變差有可能會減2到26所以我們給他一個範圍但是說真的現在關稅的衝擊可能比這個還要來的大所以說真的我等到最後出來說不定我們還要再建議是不是要變成再多一個1%或2%再做修正這個的確是有可能\n\n25\n00:09:19,396 --> 00:09:41,601\n我不是那麼剛硬的說一定要怎麼樣台灣要生存還是最重要的對對對好那我在這邊也是感謝部長因為你是一個肯做事的人所以我剛剛提到的地方的這個污染的這個議題我們希望就是說能夠我們要有一些政策有一些對策來積極的解決那另外就是說因應美國的這個關稅的議題那其實我們針對環境部\n\n26\n00:09:45,862 --> 00:09:51,675\n原本所提出來的一些政策我覺得應該是要有一些滾動式的一個調整好不好好謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝黃秀芳委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4819\t31246\t謝謝主席我們請部長請彭部長黃委員好部長我先這個就剛剛淑芬委員講的我們真的希望就是部長要認真的去思考一下那也要去了解真正去了解到底是什麼樣的原因那另外我先從我們地方的事情先講起就是說就剛剛淑芬委員講的\n32846\t54081\t其實有很多事情如果說要由地方的環保局來做監測或審查的話其實有時候會有地方人情的壓力像彰化地區在這幾年當中我們看到在上禮拜六公共電視有一個紀錄片就記錄整個彰化可能沿海地區\n54881\t77897\t的這個環境的污染那其中有一部分是這個廢棄土的這個污染那我知道其實我當立委到現在幾乎每一個會期都會特別提到就是說在我們的這個地方有很多有的是在那個比較人煙稀少的地方或者是在八卦山山脈山谷\n78465\t106132\t被亂到廢土或者是廢棄物的這個部分那這個地方是在彰化的西南角那原本是一個可能一個生態的一個園區後來因為沒有繼續經營那後來就變成這樣的一座可能就是廢棄土堆置的一個地方那我希望部長能夠知道就是說其實我們有很多的這個廢棄物的\n108312\t127320\t這個處理廠他們也許你們都有那個GPS的那個定位或者是有什麼樣的監測那可是就是說上有政策下有對策有很多在半途或者是先到某一處先堆置之後再有非法的這個車輛然後再\n129181\t150175\t再去這個人煙稀少的地方去請到所以我不知道就是說我們環境部對於這樣的一個狀況未來怎麼樣去預防或者現在這樣的一個廢棄物亂到的這種情形其實還是非常的多那我不知道說環境部在部長的這個領導之下針對這樣的一個狀況那我們要怎麼去改進\n154544\t170599\t報告委員第一個是這個是所謂的有兩個一個是營建剩餘土石方跟營建廢棄物這兩個部分那當然這兩個部分一個是內政部國土署管的一個是營建這個廢棄物是環境部循環署管的這兩個部位之間其實過去呢\n171500\t190389\t總有一些模糊地帶那我們這邊是有連單在做處理那邊的土石方剛剛也有委員說他等於是會繞單出去所以目前兩個部會的確合在一起然後這個有中央我們兩個都願意來承擔做這個事情另外一個是這個也要跟地方政府因為彰化其實是本身\n191189\t214469\t是被别人盗的所以其实我们现在是针对一些会输出的县市我们一个一个去谈那希望大家一起合作组成一个平台首先就是全流向的管理他一定要这个进出到尾巴都要确定不要像现在这样绕单的一个情况所以管理的机制要加强你们现在有这样做吗现在这样做因为也跟委员报告我们统计出来一年台湾大概是一千万\n216091\t229780\t應該是差不多1000萬噸的這個量真的在拖到當中所以我們也真的認知到這個問題也跨部會在協調因為過去其實這個跨級到很多的單位大家可能會覺得我只好做好我自己的但是就產出這樣的問題\n231161\t245593\t而且是三四十年來累積就這樣所以我們真的在處理但是還要一點點時間因為這個其實第一個需要經費第二個是很多部會的整合中央跟地方這個要一點點時間那我們現在工作的幾個月快要收尾了快要完成了\n247161\t272760\t我們希望說這個問題能夠解決因為我也提了很多次那確實當時是說因為我們有GPS的衛星定位所以應該可以很容易去監測那結果真的是有一些不肖業者他就是用繞單的方式或者是先在某個地方堆置堆置完之後再載到其他非法的堆置場去所以我覺得這個問題應該要\n275241\t300311\t確實真的要去解決要不然在我們的那個彰化有很多我剛剛講的八卦山的山谷或者是在這個彰化的西南角沿岸地區可能就是有一些廢棄的餘溫廢棄的那個農田都被堆滿了這樣的一個土石方或者是廢棄物的那種有的根本不知道它是什麼東西啦所以我覺得說也麻煩部長或者是跟國土署這邊真的要\n304892\t329523\t盡速的將這個問題來解決這個我們在進行當中大概還要再幾個月跟委員保證這個是我們正在進行的當中有結果第一個會跟委員報告另外我想請教就是說在川普總統上任之後在4月初的對等關稅的問題在他上任的時候那時候也提出來一個就是要\n330183\t351405\t退出巴黎氣候協定我想請教就是說在我們整個台灣的針對於淨零碳排或者是整個這樣的一個碳費會不會因為美國所提出來的譬如說退出巴黎氣候協定會不會有做什麼樣的調整\n352886\t378113\t包委員因為碳費目前我們是初期是300塊、100塊、50塊而且又高碳洩漏我們是不要有綠色通膨造成企業很大負擔先求有再求好的概念去推動這個制度所以目前我們也有算一些受到產業的影響的這個公司其實影響很低但是其實也有一些產業他可能就活不下去所以我們的確但是這個還要等關稅這個最後結果出來之後我們應該會滾動的來做調整\n382014\t396813\t等於是還是要幫助產業但是這個也是一個轉型的機會啦所以你們是會做一個調整如果說那個對我們台灣衝擊很大最後的報告出來那我們當然一定要政府是企業的後盾我們一定會必須要來做處理\n398094\t421585\t我們也希望就是說因為台灣是外貿就是外銷取向的一個國家那在4月3號就是川普總統提出來這個對等關稅這個議題其實對於基層的像以彰化這邊中小企業居多那其實他們他們都差一點那有的甚至都沒有單所以對於就是說未來台灣可能\n422245\t437476\t在某方面如果說對於我們的這個碳費或者是說這個美國這邊他們整個近年碳排如果他們自己本身都有做一些調整的話那有沒有可能就是說我們也會做一個滾動式的一個調整\n438737\t463310\t所以這個也是這個地方非常關心的因為總是要讓地方能夠活得下去如果說活不下去的話其實也會影響到很多勞工的生計所以我也希望就是說環境部針對這一部分也是因為我們要跟國際接軌一方面我們要跟國際接軌那一方面又要讓我們所有的地方這些產業\n466171\t486388\t能夠符合我們的規定那又可以生存下去所以我覺得環境部也是扮演一個非常重要的一個角色我們會滾動式來調整就是說我們會做企業的後盾絕對不會說這個時候還要如果說真的企業經營不下去也不是我們樂見的所以我們一定會滾動式來做調整來協助\n489771\t515643\t另外我想請教一下就是說未來我們原本說2030年就是階段減碳目標就是有那個逐漸減碳那我想問一下就是在今天問一下部長就是針對你覺得說2030年你的這個減碳的目標有沒有鬆動或者是還是充滿著信心或者是你覺得說未來可能也會做一些調整\n516963\t536536\t今天我有公布一個數字就是2023年我們的減碳跟2005比是4.64上一個數字是1.8表示我們台灣的減碳是有成效的那未來我們目前預估2024大概是5到6然後2025大概是8到9左右這樣的一個幅度所以我們按照這個趨勢下去當然我們28加減2\n539518\t556454\t我是希望是至少要28但是萬一整個局勢變差有可能會減2到26所以我們給他一個範圍但是說真的現在關稅的衝擊可能比這個還要來的大所以說真的我等到最後出來說不定我們還要再建議是不是要變成再多一個1%或2%再做修正這個的確是有可能\n559396\t581601\t我不是那麼剛硬的說一定要怎麼樣台灣要生存還是最重要的對對對好那我在這邊也是感謝部長因為你是一個肯做事的人所以我剛剛提到的地方的這個污染的這個議題我們希望就是說能夠我們要有一些政策有一些對策來積極的解決那另外就是說因應美國的這個關稅的議題那其實我們針對環境部\n585862\t591675\t原本所提出來的一些政策我覺得應該是要有一些滾動式的一個調整好不好好謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝黃秀芳委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席我們請部長請彭部長黃委員好部長我先這個就剛剛淑芬委員講的我們真的希望就是部長要認真的去思考一下那也要去了解真正去了解到底是什麼樣的原因那另外我先從我們地方的事情先講起就是說就剛剛淑芬委員講的\n其實有很多事情如果說要由地方的環保局來做監測或審查的話其實有時候會有地方人情的壓力像彰化地區在這幾年當中我們看到在上禮拜六公共電視有一個紀錄片就記錄整個彰化可能沿海地區\n的這個環境的污染那其中有一部分是這個廢棄土的這個污染那我知道其實我當立委到現在幾乎每一個會期都會特別提到就是說在我們的這個地方有很多有的是在那個比較人煙稀少的地方或者是在八卦山山脈山谷\n被亂到廢土或者是廢棄物的這個部分那這個地方是在彰化的西南角那原本是一個可能一個生態的一個園區後來因為沒有繼續經營那後來就變成這樣的一座可能就是廢棄土堆置的一個地方那我希望部長能夠知道就是說其實我們有很多的這個廢棄物的\n這個處理廠他們也許你們都有那個GPS的那個定位或者是有什麼樣的監測那可是就是說上有政策下有對策有很多在半途或者是先到某一處先堆置之後再有非法的這個車輛然後再\n再去這個人煙稀少的地方去請到所以我不知道就是說我們環境部對於這樣的一個狀況未來怎麼樣去預防或者現在這樣的一個廢棄物亂到的這種情形其實還是非常的多那我不知道說環境部在部長的這個領導之下針對這樣的一個狀況那我們要怎麼去改進\n報告委員第一個是這個是所謂的有兩個一個是營建剩餘土石方跟營建廢棄物這兩個部分那當然這兩個部分一個是內政部國土署管的一個是營建這個廢棄物是環境部循環署管的這兩個部位之間其實過去呢\n總有一些模糊地帶那我們這邊是有連單在做處理那邊的土石方剛剛也有委員說他等於是會繞單出去所以目前兩個部會的確合在一起然後這個有中央我們兩個都願意來承擔做這個事情另外一個是這個也要跟地方政府因為彰化其實是本身\n是被别人盗的所以其实我们现在是针对一些会输出的县市我们一个一个去谈那希望大家一起合作组成一个平台首先就是全流向的管理他一定要这个进出到尾巴都要确定不要像现在这样绕单的一个情况所以管理的机制要加强你们现在有这样做吗现在这样做因为也跟委员报告我们统计出来一年台湾大概是一千万\n應該是差不多1000萬噸的這個量真的在拖到當中所以我們也真的認知到這個問題也跨部會在協調因為過去其實這個跨級到很多的單位大家可能會覺得我只好做好我自己的但是就產出這樣的問題\n而且是三四十年來累積就這樣所以我們真的在處理但是還要一點點時間因為這個其實第一個需要經費第二個是很多部會的整合中央跟地方這個要一點點時間那我們現在工作的幾個月快要收尾了快要完成了\n我們希望說這個問題能夠解決因為我也提了很多次那確實當時是說因為我們有GPS的衛星定位所以應該可以很容易去監測那結果真的是有一些不肖業者他就是用繞單的方式或者是先在某個地方堆置堆置完之後再載到其他非法的堆置場去所以我覺得這個問題應該要\n確實真的要去解決要不然在我們的那個彰化有很多我剛剛講的八卦山的山谷或者是在這個彰化的西南角沿岸地區可能就是有一些廢棄的餘溫廢棄的那個農田都被堆滿了這樣的一個土石方或者是廢棄物的那種有的根本不知道它是什麼東西啦所以我覺得說也麻煩部長或者是跟國土署這邊真的要\n盡速的將這個問題來解決這個我們在進行當中大概還要再幾個月跟委員保證這個是我們正在進行的當中有結果第一個會跟委員報告另外我想請教就是說在川普總統上任之後在4月初的對等關稅的問題在他上任的時候那時候也提出來一個就是要\n退出巴黎氣候協定我想請教就是說在我們整個台灣的針對於淨零碳排或者是整個這樣的一個碳費會不會因為美國所提出來的譬如說退出巴黎氣候協定會不會有做什麼樣的調整\n包委員因為碳費目前我們是初期是300塊、100塊、50塊而且又高碳洩漏我們是不要有綠色通膨造成企業很大負擔先求有再求好的概念去推動這個制度所以目前我們也有算一些受到產業的影響的這個公司其實影響很低但是其實也有一些產業他可能就活不下去所以我們的確但是這個還要等關稅這個最後結果出來之後我們應該會滾動的來做調整\n等於是還是要幫助產業但是這個也是一個轉型的機會啦所以你們是會做一個調整如果說那個對我們台灣衝擊很大最後的報告出來那我們當然一定要政府是企業的後盾我們一定會必須要來做處理\n我們也希望就是說因為台灣是外貿就是外銷取向的一個國家那在4月3號就是川普總統提出來這個對等關稅這個議題其實對於基層的像以彰化這邊中小企業居多那其實他們他們都差一點那有的甚至都沒有單所以對於就是說未來台灣可能\n在某方面如果說對於我們的這個碳費或者是說這個美國這邊他們整個近年碳排如果他們自己本身都有做一些調整的話那有沒有可能就是說我們也會做一個滾動式的一個調整\n所以這個也是這個地方非常關心的因為總是要讓地方能夠活得下去如果說活不下去的話其實也會影響到很多勞工的生計所以我也希望就是說環境部針對這一部分也是因為我們要跟國際接軌一方面我們要跟國際接軌那一方面又要讓我們所有的地方這些產業\n能夠符合我們的規定那又可以生存下去所以我覺得環境部也是扮演一個非常重要的一個角色我們會滾動式來調整就是說我們會做企業的後盾絕對不會說這個時候還要如果說真的企業經營不下去也不是我們樂見的所以我們一定會滾動式來做調整來協助\n另外我想請教一下就是說未來我們原本說2030年就是階段減碳目標就是有那個逐漸減碳那我想問一下就是在今天問一下部長就是針對你覺得說2030年你的這個減碳的目標有沒有鬆動或者是還是充滿著信心或者是你覺得說未來可能也會做一些調整\n今天我有公布一個數字就是2023年我們的減碳跟2005比是4.64上一個數字是1.8表示我們台灣的減碳是有成效的那未來我們目前預估2024大概是5到6然後2025大概是8到9左右這樣的一個幅度所以我們按照這個趨勢下去當然我們28加減2\n我是希望是至少要28但是萬一整個局勢變差有可能會減2到26所以我們給他一個範圍但是說真的現在關稅的衝擊可能比這個還要來的大所以說真的我等到最後出來說不定我們還要再建議是不是要變成再多一個1%或2%再做修正這個的確是有可能\n我不是那麼剛硬的說一定要怎麼樣台灣要生存還是最重要的對對對好那我在這邊也是感謝部長因為你是一個肯做事的人所以我剛剛提到的地方的這個污染的這個議題我們希望就是說能夠我們要有一些政策有一些對策來積極的解決那另外就是說因應美國的這個關稅的議題那其實我們針對環境部\n原本所提出來的一些政策我覺得應該是要有一些滾動式的一個調整好不好好謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝黃秀芳委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.819 --> 00:31.246\n謝謝主席我們請部長請彭部長黃委員好部長我先這個就剛剛淑芬委員講的我們真的希望就是部長要認真的去思考一下那也要去了解真正去了解到底是什麼樣的原因那另外我先從我們地方的事情先講起就是說就剛剛淑芬委員講的\n\n00:32.846 --> 00:54.081\n其實有很多事情如果說要由地方的環保局來做監測或審查的話其實有時候會有地方人情的壓力像彰化地區在這幾年當中我們看到在上禮拜六公共電視有一個紀錄片就記錄整個彰化可能沿海地區\n\n00:54.881 --> 01:17.897\n的這個環境的污染那其中有一部分是這個廢棄土的這個污染那我知道其實我當立委到現在幾乎每一個會期都會特別提到就是說在我們的這個地方有很多有的是在那個比較人煙稀少的地方或者是在八卦山山脈山谷\n\n01:18.465 --> 01:46.132\n被亂到廢土或者是廢棄物的這個部分那這個地方是在彰化的西南角那原本是一個可能一個生態的一個園區後來因為沒有繼續經營那後來就變成這樣的一座可能就是廢棄土堆置的一個地方那我希望部長能夠知道就是說其實我們有很多的這個廢棄物的\n\n01:48.312 --> 02:07.320\n這個處理廠他們也許你們都有那個GPS的那個定位或者是有什麼樣的監測那可是就是說上有政策下有對策有很多在半途或者是先到某一處先堆置之後再有非法的這個車輛然後再\n\n02:09.181 --> 02:30.175\n再去這個人煙稀少的地方去請到所以我不知道就是說我們環境部對於這樣的一個狀況未來怎麼樣去預防或者現在這樣的一個廢棄物亂到的這種情形其實還是非常的多那我不知道說環境部在部長的這個領導之下針對這樣的一個狀況那我們要怎麼去改進\n\n02:34.544 --> 02:50.599\n報告委員第一個是這個是所謂的有兩個一個是營建剩餘土石方跟營建廢棄物這兩個部分那當然這兩個部分一個是內政部國土署管的一個是營建這個廢棄物是環境部循環署管的這兩個部位之間其實過去呢\n\n02:51.500 --> 03:10.389\n總有一些模糊地帶那我們這邊是有連單在做處理那邊的土石方剛剛也有委員說他等於是會繞單出去所以目前兩個部會的確合在一起然後這個有中央我們兩個都願意來承擔做這個事情另外一個是這個也要跟地方政府因為彰化其實是本身\n\n03:11.189 --> 03:34.469\n是被别人盗的所以其实我们现在是针对一些会输出的县市我们一个一个去谈那希望大家一起合作组成一个平台首先就是全流向的管理他一定要这个进出到尾巴都要确定不要像现在这样绕单的一个情况所以管理的机制要加强你们现在有这样做吗现在这样做因为也跟委员报告我们统计出来一年台湾大概是一千万\n\n03:36.091 --> 03:49.780\n應該是差不多1000萬噸的這個量真的在拖到當中所以我們也真的認知到這個問題也跨部會在協調因為過去其實這個跨級到很多的單位大家可能會覺得我只好做好我自己的但是就產出這樣的問題\n\n03:51.161 --> 04:05.593\n而且是三四十年來累積就這樣所以我們真的在處理但是還要一點點時間因為這個其實第一個需要經費第二個是很多部會的整合中央跟地方這個要一點點時間那我們現在工作的幾個月快要收尾了快要完成了\n\n04:07.161 --> 04:32.760\n我們希望說這個問題能夠解決因為我也提了很多次那確實當時是說因為我們有GPS的衛星定位所以應該可以很容易去監測那結果真的是有一些不肖業者他就是用繞單的方式或者是先在某個地方堆置堆置完之後再載到其他非法的堆置場去所以我覺得這個問題應該要\n\n04:35.241 --> 05:00.311\n確實真的要去解決要不然在我們的那個彰化有很多我剛剛講的八卦山的山谷或者是在這個彰化的西南角沿岸地區可能就是有一些廢棄的餘溫廢棄的那個農田都被堆滿了這樣的一個土石方或者是廢棄物的那種有的根本不知道它是什麼東西啦所以我覺得說也麻煩部長或者是跟國土署這邊真的要\n\n05:04.892 --> 05:29.523\n盡速的將這個問題來解決這個我們在進行當中大概還要再幾個月跟委員保證這個是我們正在進行的當中有結果第一個會跟委員報告另外我想請教就是說在川普總統上任之後在4月初的對等關稅的問題在他上任的時候那時候也提出來一個就是要\n\n05:30.183 --> 05:51.405\n退出巴黎氣候協定我想請教就是說在我們整個台灣的針對於淨零碳排或者是整個這樣的一個碳費會不會因為美國所提出來的譬如說退出巴黎氣候協定會不會有做什麼樣的調整\n\n05:52.886 --> 06:18.113\n包委員因為碳費目前我們是初期是300塊、100塊、50塊而且又高碳洩漏我們是不要有綠色通膨造成企業很大負擔先求有再求好的概念去推動這個制度所以目前我們也有算一些受到產業的影響的這個公司其實影響很低但是其實也有一些產業他可能就活不下去所以我們的確但是這個還要等關稅這個最後結果出來之後我們應該會滾動的來做調整\n\n06:22.014 --> 06:36.813\n等於是還是要幫助產業但是這個也是一個轉型的機會啦所以你們是會做一個調整如果說那個對我們台灣衝擊很大最後的報告出來那我們當然一定要政府是企業的後盾我們一定會必須要來做處理\n\n06:38.094 --> 07:01.585\n我們也希望就是說因為台灣是外貿就是外銷取向的一個國家那在4月3號就是川普總統提出來這個對等關稅這個議題其實對於基層的像以彰化這邊中小企業居多那其實他們他們都差一點那有的甚至都沒有單所以對於就是說未來台灣可能\n\n07:02.245 --> 07:17.476\n在某方面如果說對於我們的這個碳費或者是說這個美國這邊他們整個近年碳排如果他們自己本身都有做一些調整的話那有沒有可能就是說我們也會做一個滾動式的一個調整\n\n07:18.737 --> 07:43.310\n所以這個也是這個地方非常關心的因為總是要讓地方能夠活得下去如果說活不下去的話其實也會影響到很多勞工的生計所以我也希望就是說環境部針對這一部分也是因為我們要跟國際接軌一方面我們要跟國際接軌那一方面又要讓我們所有的地方這些產業\n\n07:46.171 --> 08:06.388\n能夠符合我們的規定那又可以生存下去所以我覺得環境部也是扮演一個非常重要的一個角色我們會滾動式來調整就是說我們會做企業的後盾絕對不會說這個時候還要如果說真的企業經營不下去也不是我們樂見的所以我們一定會滾動式來做調整來協助\n\n08:09.771 --> 08:35.643\n另外我想請教一下就是說未來我們原本說2030年就是階段減碳目標就是有那個逐漸減碳那我想問一下就是在今天問一下部長就是針對你覺得說2030年你的這個減碳的目標有沒有鬆動或者是還是充滿著信心或者是你覺得說未來可能也會做一些調整\n\n08:36.963 --> 08:56.536\n今天我有公布一個數字就是2023年我們的減碳跟2005比是4.64上一個數字是1.8表示我們台灣的減碳是有成效的那未來我們目前預估2024大概是5到6然後2025大概是8到9左右這樣的一個幅度所以我們按照這個趨勢下去當然我們28加減2\n\n08:59.518 --> 09:16.454\n我是希望是至少要28但是萬一整個局勢變差有可能會減2到26所以我們給他一個範圍但是說真的現在關稅的衝擊可能比這個還要來的大所以說真的我等到最後出來說不定我們還要再建議是不是要變成再多一個1%或2%再做修正這個的確是有可能\n\n09:19.396 --> 09:41.601\n我不是那麼剛硬的說一定要怎麼樣台灣要生存還是最重要的對對對好那我在這邊也是感謝部長因為你是一個肯做事的人所以我剛剛提到的地方的這個污染的這個議題我們希望就是說能夠我們要有一些政策有一些對策來積極的解決那另外就是說因應美國的這個關稅的議題那其實我們針對環境部\n\n09:45.862 --> 09:51.675\n原本所提出來的一些政策我覺得應該是要有一些滾動式的一個調整好不好好謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝黃秀芳委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.819,"end":31.246,"text":"謝謝主席我們請部長請彭部長黃委員好部長我先這個就剛剛淑芬委員講的我們真的希望就是部長要認真的去思考一下那也要去了解真正去了解到底是什麼樣的原因那另外我先從我們地方的事情先講起就是說就剛剛淑芬委員講的"},{"start":32.846,"end":54.081,"text":"其實有很多事情如果說要由地方的環保局來做監測或審查的話其實有時候會有地方人情的壓力像彰化地區在這幾年當中我們看到在上禮拜六公共電視有一個紀錄片就記錄整個彰化可能沿海地區"},{"start":54.881,"end":77.897,"text":"的這個環境的污染那其中有一部分是這個廢棄土的這個污染那我知道其實我當立委到現在幾乎每一個會期都會特別提到就是說在我們的這個地方有很多有的是在那個比較人煙稀少的地方或者是在八卦山山脈山谷"},{"start":78.465,"end":106.132,"text":"被亂到廢土或者是廢棄物的這個部分那這個地方是在彰化的西南角那原本是一個可能一個生態的一個園區後來因為沒有繼續經營那後來就變成這樣的一座可能就是廢棄土堆置的一個地方那我希望部長能夠知道就是說其實我們有很多的這個廢棄物的"},{"start":108.312,"end":127.32,"text":"這個處理廠他們也許你們都有那個GPS的那個定位或者是有什麼樣的監測那可是就是說上有政策下有對策有很多在半途或者是先到某一處先堆置之後再有非法的這個車輛然後再"},{"start":129.181,"end":150.175,"text":"再去這個人煙稀少的地方去請到所以我不知道就是說我們環境部對於這樣的一個狀況未來怎麼樣去預防或者現在這樣的一個廢棄物亂到的這種情形其實還是非常的多那我不知道說環境部在部長的這個領導之下針對這樣的一個狀況那我們要怎麼去改進"},{"start":154.544,"end":170.599,"text":"報告委員第一個是這個是所謂的有兩個一個是營建剩餘土石方跟營建廢棄物這兩個部分那當然這兩個部分一個是內政部國土署管的一個是營建這個廢棄物是環境部循環署管的這兩個部位之間其實過去呢"},{"start":171.5,"end":190.389,"text":"總有一些模糊地帶那我們這邊是有連單在做處理那邊的土石方剛剛也有委員說他等於是會繞單出去所以目前兩個部會的確合在一起然後這個有中央我們兩個都願意來承擔做這個事情另外一個是這個也要跟地方政府因為彰化其實是本身"},{"start":191.189,"end":214.469,"text":"是被别人盗的所以其实我们现在是针对一些会输出的县市我们一个一个去谈那希望大家一起合作组成一个平台首先就是全流向的管理他一定要这个进出到尾巴都要确定不要像现在这样绕单的一个情况所以管理的机制要加强你们现在有这样做吗现在这样做因为也跟委员报告我们统计出来一年台湾大概是一千万"},{"start":216.091,"end":229.78,"text":"應該是差不多1000萬噸的這個量真的在拖到當中所以我們也真的認知到這個問題也跨部會在協調因為過去其實這個跨級到很多的單位大家可能會覺得我只好做好我自己的但是就產出這樣的問題"},{"start":231.161,"end":245.593,"text":"而且是三四十年來累積就這樣所以我們真的在處理但是還要一點點時間因為這個其實第一個需要經費第二個是很多部會的整合中央跟地方這個要一點點時間那我們現在工作的幾個月快要收尾了快要完成了"},{"start":247.161,"end":272.76,"text":"我們希望說這個問題能夠解決因為我也提了很多次那確實當時是說因為我們有GPS的衛星定位所以應該可以很容易去監測那結果真的是有一些不肖業者他就是用繞單的方式或者是先在某個地方堆置堆置完之後再載到其他非法的堆置場去所以我覺得這個問題應該要"},{"start":275.241,"end":300.311,"text":"確實真的要去解決要不然在我們的那個彰化有很多我剛剛講的八卦山的山谷或者是在這個彰化的西南角沿岸地區可能就是有一些廢棄的餘溫廢棄的那個農田都被堆滿了這樣的一個土石方或者是廢棄物的那種有的根本不知道它是什麼東西啦所以我覺得說也麻煩部長或者是跟國土署這邊真的要"},{"start":304.892,"end":329.523,"text":"盡速的將這個問題來解決這個我們在進行當中大概還要再幾個月跟委員保證這個是我們正在進行的當中有結果第一個會跟委員報告另外我想請教就是說在川普總統上任之後在4月初的對等關稅的問題在他上任的時候那時候也提出來一個就是要"},{"start":330.183,"end":351.405,"text":"退出巴黎氣候協定我想請教就是說在我們整個台灣的針對於淨零碳排或者是整個這樣的一個碳費會不會因為美國所提出來的譬如說退出巴黎氣候協定會不會有做什麼樣的調整"},{"start":352.886,"end":378.113,"text":"包委員因為碳費目前我們是初期是300塊、100塊、50塊而且又高碳洩漏我們是不要有綠色通膨造成企業很大負擔先求有再求好的概念去推動這個制度所以目前我們也有算一些受到產業的影響的這個公司其實影響很低但是其實也有一些產業他可能就活不下去所以我們的確但是這個還要等關稅這個最後結果出來之後我們應該會滾動的來做調整"},{"start":382.014,"end":396.813,"text":"等於是還是要幫助產業但是這個也是一個轉型的機會啦所以你們是會做一個調整如果說那個對我們台灣衝擊很大最後的報告出來那我們當然一定要政府是企業的後盾我們一定會必須要來做處理"},{"start":398.094,"end":421.585,"text":"我們也希望就是說因為台灣是外貿就是外銷取向的一個國家那在4月3號就是川普總統提出來這個對等關稅這個議題其實對於基層的像以彰化這邊中小企業居多那其實他們他們都差一點那有的甚至都沒有單所以對於就是說未來台灣可能"},{"start":422.245,"end":437.476,"text":"在某方面如果說對於我們的這個碳費或者是說這個美國這邊他們整個近年碳排如果他們自己本身都有做一些調整的話那有沒有可能就是說我們也會做一個滾動式的一個調整"},{"start":438.737,"end":463.31,"text":"所以這個也是這個地方非常關心的因為總是要讓地方能夠活得下去如果說活不下去的話其實也會影響到很多勞工的生計所以我也希望就是說環境部針對這一部分也是因為我們要跟國際接軌一方面我們要跟國際接軌那一方面又要讓我們所有的地方這些產業"},{"start":466.171,"end":486.388,"text":"能夠符合我們的規定那又可以生存下去所以我覺得環境部也是扮演一個非常重要的一個角色我們會滾動式來調整就是說我們會做企業的後盾絕對不會說這個時候還要如果說真的企業經營不下去也不是我們樂見的所以我們一定會滾動式來做調整來協助"},{"start":489.771,"end":515.643,"text":"另外我想請教一下就是說未來我們原本說2030年就是階段減碳目標就是有那個逐漸減碳那我想問一下就是在今天問一下部長就是針對你覺得說2030年你的這個減碳的目標有沒有鬆動或者是還是充滿著信心或者是你覺得說未來可能也會做一些調整"},{"start":516.963,"end":536.536,"text":"今天我有公布一個數字就是2023年我們的減碳跟2005比是4.64上一個數字是1.8表示我們台灣的減碳是有成效的那未來我們目前預估2024大概是5到6然後2025大概是8到9左右這樣的一個幅度所以我們按照這個趨勢下去當然我們28加減2"},{"start":539.518,"end":556.454,"text":"我是希望是至少要28但是萬一整個局勢變差有可能會減2到26所以我們給他一個範圍但是說真的現在關稅的衝擊可能比這個還要來的大所以說真的我等到最後出來說不定我們還要再建議是不是要變成再多一個1%或2%再做修正這個的確是有可能"},{"start":559.396,"end":581.601,"text":"我不是那麼剛硬的說一定要怎麼樣台灣要生存還是最重要的對對對好那我在這邊也是感謝部長因為你是一個肯做事的人所以我剛剛提到的地方的這個污染的這個議題我們希望就是說能夠我們要有一些政策有一些對策來積極的解決那另外就是說因應美國的這個關稅的議題那其實我們針對環境部"},{"start":585.862,"end":591.675,"text":"原本所提出來的一些政策我覺得應該是要有一些滾動式的一個調整好不好好謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝黃秀芳委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":743,"blocks":[["黃委員秀芳：（11時40分）謝謝主席，請部長。"],["主席：請彭部長。"],["彭部長啓明：黃委員好。"],["黃委員秀芳：部長，針對剛剛淑芬委員講的，我們真的希望部長要認真的去思考一下，那也要真正去了解到底是什麼樣的原因。"],["彭部長啓明：好。"],["黃委員秀芳：另外，我先從我們地方的事情講起，就是剛剛淑芬委員講的，有很多事情如果都要由地方環保局來做監測或審查的話，其實有時候會有地方人情的壓力。上禮拜六公共電視有一個紀錄片，就是記錄彰化整個沿海地區的環境污染，其中有一部分是廢棄土污染，其實從我當立委到現在，幾乎每一個會期都會特別提到在我們地方有些人煙比較稀少的地方或八卦山山脈、山谷被亂倒廢土或廢棄物，像這個地方是在彰化的西南角，原本可能是一個生態園區，後來因為沒有繼續經營，就變成廢棄土堆置的地方。我希望部長能夠知道，我們有很多廢棄物處理廠，也許你們都有GPS的定位或者有什麼樣的監測，可是上有政策、下有對策，有很多在半途或先堆置在某一處，之後再由非法的車輛載去人煙稀少的地方傾倒。我不知道環境部對於這樣的狀況，未來怎麼樣去預防？現在廢棄物亂倒的情形其實還非常多，我不知道環境部在部長的領導之下，針對這樣的狀況，要怎麼去改進？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，第一、這有兩部分，一個是營建剩餘土石方，一個是營建廢棄物，這兩個部分一個是內政部國土署管的，營建廢棄物是環境部循環署管的，在這兩個部會之間過去總有一些模糊地帶，我們這邊有聯單在做處理，那邊的土石方，剛剛也有委員說它等於是會繞單出去，所以目前的兩個部會的確合在一起，我們兩個部會都願意來承擔做這個事情。另外，這也要跟地方政府合作，彰化本身是被別人倒的，所以我們現在是針對一些會輸出的縣市，一個一個去談，希望大家一起合作，組成一個平臺，首先就是全流向的管理，它的進出一定要從頭到尾都要確定，不要像現在有繞單的情況，所以管理的機制要加強。"],["黃委員秀芳：所以你們現在有這樣做嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：現在正規劃要做，也跟委員報告，我們統計出來，一年臺灣大概是一千萬方，應該差不多是一千萬噸的量真的在偷倒當中，所以我們也真的認知到這個問題，也跨部會在協調，因為其實這涉及很多單位，大家可能會覺得我只要做好我自己這部分，但是就產生這樣的問題，而且是三、四十年累積下來就這樣了。我們真的在處理，但是還要一點點時間，因為這第一個需要經費，第二個需要很多部會、中央跟地方的整合，這要一點點時間，我們現在工作了幾個月，快要收尾了、快要完成了。"],["黃委員秀芳：是，我們希望這個問題能夠解決，因為我也提了很多次，當時是說有GPS的衛星定位，所以應該很容易去監測，結果真的有一些不肖業者就是用繞單的方式，或者是先在某個地方堆置，堆置完之後，再載到其他非法的堆置場去。所以，我覺得這個問題應該要確實解決，要不然在我們彰化像我剛剛講的八卦山的山谷或彰化西南角沿岸地區，可能有一些廢棄的魚塭、廢棄的農田都被堆滿了廢棄土石方或廢棄物，有的根本不知道它是什麼東西。所以麻煩部長跟國土署要儘速將這個問題解決。"],["彭部長啓明：這個我們在進行當中，那大概還要再幾個月，我跟委員保證，這個是我們正在進行的工作，有結果會第一個跟委員報告。"],["黃委員秀芳：好。","另外，川普總統在4月初提出對等關稅，那在他上任的時候，也提出要退出巴黎氣候協定，我想請教，我們臺灣針對淨零碳排或碳費，會不會因為美國提出要退出巴黎氣候協定而做什麼樣的調整？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，因為碳費我們初期是三百塊、一百塊、五十塊，而且又有高碳洩漏，我們是希望不要有綠色通膨，造成企業很大負擔，用先求有再求好的概念去推動這個制度，目前我們也有評估可能受到產業影響的公司，其實影響很低，但是也有一些產業可能就活不下去。這個還要等關稅的最後結果出來之後，我們應該會來做滾動的調整，等於還是要幫助產業，但這也是一個轉型的機會。"],["黃委員秀芳：是，所以你們會做一個調整？"],["彭部長啓明：如果說最後的報告出來，對我們臺灣衝擊很大，那政府是企業的後盾，我們當然必須要來處理。"],["黃委員秀芳：對，因為臺灣是外銷取向的國家，4月3號川普總統提出對等關稅這個議題，彰化這邊以中小企業居多，其實他們也都很擔心，有的甚至都沒有單，所以，未來臺灣可能在某方面，對於我們的碳費或者美國針對淨零碳排，他們自己本身都有做一些調整的話，那有沒有可能我們也會做滾動式的調整，這也是地方非常關心的，因為總是要讓地方能夠活得下去，如果說活不下去的話，其實也會影響到很多勞工的生計。我也希望環境部針對這一部分，因為一方面我們要跟國際接軌，另一方面又要讓地方產業能夠符合我們的規定，又可以生存下去，我覺得環境部也扮演一個非常重要的角色。"],["彭部長啓明：好，這個部分我們會滾動式的來調整，就是我們會做企業的後盾，因為企業真的經營不下去也不是我們樂見的，所以我們一定會做滾動式的調整來協助。"],["黃委員秀芳：好。","另外，我想請教一下，我們原本說2030年達到階段減碳目標，就是逐漸減碳，請問部長，你覺得對2030年這個減碳的目標有沒有鬆動或者你還是充滿著信心？或者是你覺得未來可能也會做一些調整？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，今天我有公布一個數字，就是2023年我們的減碳跟2005年比是4.64，上一個數字是1.8，表示我們臺灣的減碳是有成效的，那我們目前預估2024年大概是5到6，然後2025年大概是8到9左右這樣一個幅度，如果按照這個趨勢下去，28加減2，我是希望至少要28，但是萬一整個局勢變差，有可能會減2到26，所以我們給它一個範圍。但是說真的，現在關稅的衝擊可能比這個還要來得大，所以等到最後結果出來，說不定我們還要再建議是不是要再多1%或2%，這個的確是有可能，我不是那麼剛硬的說一定要怎麼樣，臺灣要生存還是最重要的。"],["黃委員秀芳：對。我在這邊也是感謝部長，因為你是一個肯做事的人，所以我剛剛提到的地方污染的議題，希望要有一些政策、對策來積極的解決。另外，因應美國關稅的議題，針對環境部原本所提出來的一些政策，我覺得應該要有滾動式調整，好不好？"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝委員。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃秀芳委員的發言。","接下來請翁曉玲委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":512,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-6","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","盧縣一","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","涂權吉","林淑芬","黃秀芳","翁曉玲","洪孟楷","王正旭","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳培瑜","張啓楷","楊曜","陳瑩","蘇清泉","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":427,"meetingDate":["2025-04-17"],"gazette_id":"1143801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部部長、經濟部、外交部就「因應美國退出巴黎氣候協定並提出對等關稅，對國內\n產業淨零轉型造成衝擊」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、邀請環境部部長、勞動部、教育部、經\n濟部針對「國內校園、賣場及工作場域之室內空氣污染物管理及防制精進作為」進行專題報告，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143801_00007"}}}