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\"海\", \"start\": 420.88, \"end\": 421.04, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"洋\", \"start\": 421.04, \"end\": 421.261, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 421.261, \"end\": 421.401, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 421.401, \"end\": 421.621, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 421.621, \"end\": 421.941, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 421.941, \"end\": 422.181, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 422.181, \"end\": 422.401, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"住\", \"start\": 422.401, \"end\": 422.541, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 422.541, \"end\": 422.721, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 422.721, \"end\": 423.141, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"識\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 423.141, \"end\": 423.402, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 423.402, \"end\": 423.762, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"住\", \"start\": 423.762, \"end\": 423.982, \"score\": 0.976}, 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\"end\": 493.085, \"score\": 0.595}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 493.085, \"end\": 493.205, \"score\": 0.705}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 493.205, \"end\": 493.225, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 493.225, \"end\": 493.325, \"score\": 0.736}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 493.325, \"end\": 493.345, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,870 --> 00:00:24,808\n主委早看到4月14號海委會的國家海洋研究院還有中山大學主辦的2025國際太平洋海洋教育工作者網絡國際研討會你們邀請了日本加拿大美國還有澳洲等地的學者\n\n2\n00:00:26,690 --> 00:00:46,231\n針對傳統生態知識視角下的海洋素養來對話來自亞太的聲音的議題探討然後最後閉幕的時候你們還發布了一個打狗宣言那打狗宣言的重要內容包含優先考量傳統生態知識系統並且要保障傳統族群的權利\n\n3\n00:00:47,096 --> 00:01:15,516\n然後各國要建立制度框架來保護並且來支持傳統生態知識的社群權利還有海洋保育中傳統生態知識要納入政策制定的核心要素以及促進海洋科學家跟社區居民的深度合作還有海洋科學研究資金優先支持來社群參與然後建立國際平台有七大承諾很多沒有錯吧\n\n4\n00:01:16,096 --> 00:01:42,728\n是好請問主委你有共同連署了嗎他們的連署還是主要以他們的成員為主那我們有象徵性的連署但是那個連署書沒有要讓他們帶去聯合國帶去聯合國去倡議的部分是他們自己社群的人才有資格做連署所以我們有象徵性好所以象徵性也就是說海委會你們願意承諾海洋政策會往這個方向來進展對不對\n\n5\n00:01:44,028 --> 00:02:00,802\n各位委員報告我在這個會中我也去分享了我們已經有做的部分那他們對於說我們的海保法可以把原住民的諮商同意權放進去可以把原住民加漁民成為少數有否決權\n\n6\n00:02:01,903 --> 00:02:25,371\n他們對於這兩點印象非常的深刻因為這就代表著說我們原住民族的傳統的海洋的智慧傳統的生態的知識是被我們引進到決策的程序那這一點他們覺得我們做得很好對也就是大家非常的努力嘛然後你這個打狗宣言其實也跟本席\n\n7\n00:02:26,311 --> 00:02:49,870\n當時我們在審海洋保育法的時候我非常堅持的核心理念所以我們可以說是創紀錄的把這個少數否決權放進來所以因此我們有要求要求六個月之內要在原住民地區各縣市辦理至少三場次的相關法案的說明會\n\n8\n00:02:50,951 --> 00:03:20,531\n並且也邀請我們族人參與然後積極來溝通嘛對不對然後讓我們的族人了解一下這個法的利弊得失還有後續的會有影響請問一下現在我們這個場是辦理的怎麼樣我們辦完了五場然後執法的部分你知道參與的人數有多少嗎然後執法的人數我們也都陸陸續續有做你知道有多少人參加嗎這三場總共是一百多人那詳細的情形我是不是請署長來說明好可以\n\n9\n00:03:22,812 --> 00:03:48,086\n為什麼這麼少人我們當時解讀的這個然後也跟溝通的過程所以當時的認定是沒有我現在問你為什麼那麼少人我們基本上在地所有的部落我們其實都有發你們進入到部落了嗎然後你們去你們去這個這個這個開展的這個座談會是在禮拜幾所以其實問題蠻大的所以呢其實我也看到了我們的主任他有在這個\n\n10\n00:03:48,886 --> 00:04:05,923\n雖然105個人參加他有提出幾個疑慮第一個疑慮就是要求你們要到部落再去召開說明會對吧然後還有誤犯的時候怎麼樣來減輕這樣的機制還有就是原住民文化記憶之間跟我們這個法律的競合問題還有\n\n11\n00:04:07,705 --> 00:04:34,815\n批戶區劃設的原住民代表的比例其實呢這些都是我們在修這個癌包法的時候本席非常堅持的立場那請問一下我們有第8條第19條第26條對不對好這個我就不再因為時間的關係我就不再說明了那這這三條當中我們有講到非常多的問題就是你的配套執法請問一下配套執法什麼時候會出來是\n\n12\n00:04:36,255 --> 00:04:56,888\n也跟委員這邊說明一下目前我們所有的14個執法應該現在有8個已經預告完成了那我剛剛講的第8條第19條第26條這跟原住民都有相關的問題而且也跟你們剛剛主委所說的打狗宣言的這個不謀而合我們的理念是不謀而合是跟委員說明第26條就是針對如果他之後有任何的\n\n13\n00:05:01,171 --> 00:05:27,928\n不OK受罰的他必須要受獎習課程那這是第26條那目前這個執法已經預告完成然後再做後面的法制作業有嗎有這三條有嗎第8條第19條第26條有嗎第19條是獎勵的部分那獎勵的部分基本上是我們已經有這個獎勵辦法已經完成已經是在會內作業那第26條呢保育獎期的課程要納入原住民族知識還有原住民族生物多樣性的課程呢\n\n14\n00:05:28,268 --> 00:05:43,231\n跟委員說明一下就是這個的執法是已經預告完成然後現在在做法沒有我現在跟你問你的是第19條有26條內容是什麼內容有包含他必須要含原住民相關的這個知識跟原住民相關的內容\n\n15\n00:05:43,692 --> 00:06:11,314\n那你們該怎麼做他如果受罰之後他基本上有不同的課程要上那我們在去年的十月也開始起了一個標案就是針對這些的課程開始要編這些的教材那目前的規劃是他會有兩個小時的教材四個小時的教材跟八個小時的教材那裡面都有含教材怎麼來呃先跟呃跟委員說明是這些教材現在在走的過程裡面他有涉及原住民相關的這個部分我們會請原住民的呃專家老師跟部落的人幫我們看過那因為是去年十月\n\n16\n00:06:11,394 --> 00:06:37,869\n你覺得現在原民會有建立一個知識體系嗎有這個也會納在這個的這個標案他們去參考的裡面那特別針對原住民用海的部分我們今年也有一個計畫是在調查整個東海岸的原住民的傳統用海所以它等於是從那個資料庫裡面它有理論的知識然後再透過今年的這個原住民用海的這個調查它會有各種不同的案例所以這些都會納在這個因為時間的關係在這邊我有三個強烈的要求好不好主委您\n\n17\n00:06:38,869 --> 00:07:05,763\n第一個打狗宣言既然強調的是傳統生態知識我們希望你們拿出具體的規劃、期程還有做法第二個海洋保育法裡面的國際交流補助你們應該要編列專門的經費來支持族人怎麼樣去催廣跟交流傳統生態知識第三個海洋保育法裡面原住民知識跟原住民族生養多樣性的課程\n\n18\n00:07:06,343 --> 00:07:28,517\n我認為你們應該要結合原住民族知識體系也就是原民會現在其實已經在建立了必須要由海委會教育部還有原民會你們來進行這個所謂的橫向平台要真正來落實合作跟對話可不可以我們把備案做好因為現在委外在研究我們備案出來以後跨部會會來協調\n\n19\n00:07:30,678 --> 00:07:45,629\n最後我要提醒主委蔡總統她在105年的時候她跟原住民道歉她曾經承諾過要推動原住民的自治要推動原住民的土地跟海洋海域法然後轉型政業要納入原住民可是到現在全部都飄跳\n\n20\n00:07:46,509 --> 00:08:13,345\n跳票了所以我在想既然剛剛主委您也非常贊同而且你們也簽署了這個所謂的打狗宣言要強調傳統知識保障跟維護我們真的希望拿出具體的作為然後以上可能還沒有辦法具體講述的部分我也請相關的業務同仁能夠到我的辦公室來我們到一定的進度有內容的時候我們就跟委員報告好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n870\t24808\t主委早看到4月14號海委會的國家海洋研究院還有中山大學主辦的2025國際太平洋海洋教育工作者網絡國際研討會你們邀請了日本加拿大美國還有澳洲等地的學者\n26690\t46231\t針對傳統生態知識視角下的海洋素養來對話來自亞太的聲音的議題探討然後最後閉幕的時候你們還發布了一個打狗宣言那打狗宣言的重要內容包含優先考量傳統生態知識系統並且要保障傳統族群的權利\n47096\t75516\t然後各國要建立制度框架來保護並且來支持傳統生態知識的社群權利還有海洋保育中傳統生態知識要納入政策制定的核心要素以及促進海洋科學家跟社區居民的深度合作還有海洋科學研究資金優先支持來社群參與然後建立國際平台有七大承諾很多沒有錯吧\n76096\t102728\t是好請問主委你有共同連署了嗎他們的連署還是主要以他們的成員為主那我們有象徵性的連署但是那個連署書沒有要讓他們帶去聯合國帶去聯合國去倡議的部分是他們自己社群的人才有資格做連署所以我們有象徵性好所以象徵性也就是說海委會你們願意承諾海洋政策會往這個方向來進展對不對\n104028\t120802\t各位委員報告我在這個會中我也去分享了我們已經有做的部分那他們對於說我們的海保法可以把原住民的諮商同意權放進去可以把原住民加漁民成為少數有否決權\n121903\t145371\t他們對於這兩點印象非常的深刻因為這就代表著說我們原住民族的傳統的海洋的智慧傳統的生態的知識是被我們引進到決策的程序那這一點他們覺得我們做得很好對 也就是大家非常的努力嘛然後你這個打狗宣言其實也跟本席\n146311\t169870\t當時我們在審海洋保育法的時候我非常堅持的核心理念所以我們可以說是創紀錄的把這個少數否決權放進來所以因此我們有要求要求六個月之內要在原住民地區各縣市辦理至少三場次的相關法案的說明會\n170951\t200531\t並且也邀請我們族人參與然後積極來溝通嘛對不對然後讓我們的族人了解一下這個法的利弊得失還有後續的會有影響請問一下現在我們這個場是辦理的怎麼樣我們辦完了五場然後執法的部分你知道參與的人數有多少嗎然後執法的人數我們也都陸陸續續有做你知道有多少人參加嗎這三場總共是一百多人那詳細的情形我是不是請署長來說明好可以\n202812\t228086\t為什麼這麼少人我們當時解讀的這個然後也跟溝通的過程所以當時的認定是沒有我現在問你為什麼那麼少人我們基本上在地所有的部落我們其實都有發你們進入到部落了嗎然後你們去你們去這個這個這個開展的這個座談會是在禮拜幾所以其實問題蠻大的所以呢其實我也看到了我們的主任他有在這個\n228886\t245923\t雖然105個人參加他有提出幾個疑慮第一個疑慮就是要求你們要到部落再去召開說明會 對吧然後還有誤犯的時候怎麼樣來減輕這樣的機制還有就是原住民文化記憶之間跟我們這個法律的競合問題還有\n247705\t274815\t批戶區劃設的原住民代表的比例其實呢這些都是我們在修這個癌包法的時候本席非常堅持的立場那請問一下我們有第8條第19條第26條對不對好這個我就不再因為時間的關係我就不再說明了那這這三條當中我們有講到非常多的問題就是你的配套執法請問一下配套執法什麼時候會出來是\n276255\t296888\t也跟委員這邊說明一下目前我們所有的14個執法應該現在有8個已經預告完成了那我剛剛講的第8條第19條第26條這跟原住民都有相關的問題而且也跟你們剛剛主委所說的打狗宣言的這個不謀而合我們的理念是不謀而合是跟委員說明第26條就是針對如果他之後有任何的\n301171\t327928\t不OK受罰的他必須要受獎習課程那這是第26條那目前這個執法已經預告完成然後再做後面的法制作業有嗎有這三條有嗎第8條第19條第26條有嗎第19條是獎勵的部分那獎勵的部分基本上是我們已經有這個獎勵辦法已經完成已經是在會內作業那第26條呢保育獎期的課程要納入原住民族知識還有原住民族生物多樣性的課程呢\n328268\t343231\t跟委員說明一下就是這個的執法是已經預告完成然後現在在做法沒有我現在跟你問你的是第19條有26條內容是什麼內容有包含他必須要含原住民相關的這個知識跟原住民相關的內容\n343692\t371314\t那你們該怎麼做他如果受罰之後他基本上有不同的課程要上那我們在去年的十月也開始起了一個標案就是針對這些的課程開始要編這些的教材那目前的規劃是他會有兩個小時的教材四個小時的教材跟八個小時的教材那裡面都有含教材怎麼來呃先跟呃跟委員說明是這些教材現在在走的過程裡面他有涉及原住民相關的這個部分我們會請原住民的呃專家老師跟部落的人幫我們看過那因為是去年十月\n371394\t397869\t你覺得現在原民會有建立一個知識體系嗎有 這個也會納在這個的這個標案他們去參考的裡面那特別針對原住民用海的部分我們今年也有一個計畫是在調查整個東海岸的原住民的傳統用海所以它等於是從那個資料庫裡面它有理論的知識然後再透過今年的這個原住民用海的這個調查它會有各種不同的案例所以這些都會納在這個因為時間的關係在這邊我有三個強烈的要求好不好 主委您\n398869\t425763\t第一個打狗宣言既然強調的是傳統生態知識我們希望你們拿出具體的規劃、期程還有做法第二個海洋保育法裡面的國際交流補助你們應該要編列專門的經費來支持族人怎麼樣去催廣跟交流傳統生態知識第三個海洋保育法裡面原住民知識跟原住民族生養多樣性的課程\n426343\t448517\t我認為你們應該要結合原住民族知識體系也就是原民會現在其實已經在建立了必須要由海委會教育部還有原民會你們來進行這個所謂的橫向平台要真正來落實合作跟對話可不可以我們把備案做好因為現在委外在研究我們備案出來以後跨部會會來協調\n450678\t465629\t最後我要提醒主委蔡總統她在105年的時候她跟原住民道歉她曾經承諾過要推動原住民的自治要推動原住民的土地跟海洋海域法然後轉型政業要納入原住民可是到現在全部都飄跳\n466509\t493345\t跳票了所以我在想既然剛剛主委您也非常贊同而且你們也簽署了這個所謂的打狗宣言要強調傳統知識保障跟維護我們真的希望拿出具體的作為然後以上可能還沒有辦法具體講述的部分我也請相關的業務同仁能夠到我的辦公室來我們到一定的進度有內容的時候我們就跟委員報告好 謝謝\n","txt":"主委早看到4月14號海委會的國家海洋研究院還有中山大學主辦的2025國際太平洋海洋教育工作者網絡國際研討會你們邀請了日本加拿大美國還有澳洲等地的學者\n針對傳統生態知識視角下的海洋素養來對話來自亞太的聲音的議題探討然後最後閉幕的時候你們還發布了一個打狗宣言那打狗宣言的重要內容包含優先考量傳統生態知識系統並且要保障傳統族群的權利\n然後各國要建立制度框架來保護並且來支持傳統生態知識的社群權利還有海洋保育中傳統生態知識要納入政策制定的核心要素以及促進海洋科學家跟社區居民的深度合作還有海洋科學研究資金優先支持來社群參與然後建立國際平台有七大承諾很多沒有錯吧\n是好請問主委你有共同連署了嗎他們的連署還是主要以他們的成員為主那我們有象徵性的連署但是那個連署書沒有要讓他們帶去聯合國帶去聯合國去倡議的部分是他們自己社群的人才有資格做連署所以我們有象徵性好所以象徵性也就是說海委會你們願意承諾海洋政策會往這個方向來進展對不對\n各位委員報告我在這個會中我也去分享了我們已經有做的部分那他們對於說我們的海保法可以把原住民的諮商同意權放進去可以把原住民加漁民成為少數有否決權\n他們對於這兩點印象非常的深刻因為這就代表著說我們原住民族的傳統的海洋的智慧傳統的生態的知識是被我們引進到決策的程序那這一點他們覺得我們做得很好對 也就是大家非常的努力嘛然後你這個打狗宣言其實也跟本席\n當時我們在審海洋保育法的時候我非常堅持的核心理念所以我們可以說是創紀錄的把這個少數否決權放進來所以因此我們有要求要求六個月之內要在原住民地區各縣市辦理至少三場次的相關法案的說明會\n並且也邀請我們族人參與然後積極來溝通嘛對不對然後讓我們的族人了解一下這個法的利弊得失還有後續的會有影響請問一下現在我們這個場是辦理的怎麼樣我們辦完了五場然後執法的部分你知道參與的人數有多少嗎然後執法的人數我們也都陸陸續續有做你知道有多少人參加嗎這三場總共是一百多人那詳細的情形我是不是請署長來說明好可以\n為什麼這麼少人我們當時解讀的這個然後也跟溝通的過程所以當時的認定是沒有我現在問你為什麼那麼少人我們基本上在地所有的部落我們其實都有發你們進入到部落了嗎然後你們去你們去這個這個這個開展的這個座談會是在禮拜幾所以其實問題蠻大的所以呢其實我也看到了我們的主任他有在這個\n雖然105個人參加他有提出幾個疑慮第一個疑慮就是要求你們要到部落再去召開說明會 對吧然後還有誤犯的時候怎麼樣來減輕這樣的機制還有就是原住民文化記憶之間跟我們這個法律的競合問題還有\n批戶區劃設的原住民代表的比例其實呢這些都是我們在修這個癌包法的時候本席非常堅持的立場那請問一下我們有第8條第19條第26條對不對好這個我就不再因為時間的關係我就不再說明了那這這三條當中我們有講到非常多的問題就是你的配套執法請問一下配套執法什麼時候會出來是\n也跟委員這邊說明一下目前我們所有的14個執法應該現在有8個已經預告完成了那我剛剛講的第8條第19條第26條這跟原住民都有相關的問題而且也跟你們剛剛主委所說的打狗宣言的這個不謀而合我們的理念是不謀而合是跟委員說明第26條就是針對如果他之後有任何的\n不OK受罰的他必須要受獎習課程那這是第26條那目前這個執法已經預告完成然後再做後面的法制作業有嗎有這三條有嗎第8條第19條第26條有嗎第19條是獎勵的部分那獎勵的部分基本上是我們已經有這個獎勵辦法已經完成已經是在會內作業那第26條呢保育獎期的課程要納入原住民族知識還有原住民族生物多樣性的課程呢\n跟委員說明一下就是這個的執法是已經預告完成然後現在在做法沒有我現在跟你問你的是第19條有26條內容是什麼內容有包含他必須要含原住民相關的這個知識跟原住民相關的內容\n那你們該怎麼做他如果受罰之後他基本上有不同的課程要上那我們在去年的十月也開始起了一個標案就是針對這些的課程開始要編這些的教材那目前的規劃是他會有兩個小時的教材四個小時的教材跟八個小時的教材那裡面都有含教材怎麼來呃先跟呃跟委員說明是這些教材現在在走的過程裡面他有涉及原住民相關的這個部分我們會請原住民的呃專家老師跟部落的人幫我們看過那因為是去年十月\n你覺得現在原民會有建立一個知識體系嗎有 這個也會納在這個的這個標案他們去參考的裡面那特別針對原住民用海的部分我們今年也有一個計畫是在調查整個東海岸的原住民的傳統用海所以它等於是從那個資料庫裡面它有理論的知識然後再透過今年的這個原住民用海的這個調查它會有各種不同的案例所以這些都會納在這個因為時間的關係在這邊我有三個強烈的要求好不好 主委您\n第一個打狗宣言既然強調的是傳統生態知識我們希望你們拿出具體的規劃、期程還有做法第二個海洋保育法裡面的國際交流補助你們應該要編列專門的經費來支持族人怎麼樣去催廣跟交流傳統生態知識第三個海洋保育法裡面原住民知識跟原住民族生養多樣性的課程\n我認為你們應該要結合原住民族知識體系也就是原民會現在其實已經在建立了必須要由海委會教育部還有原民會你們來進行這個所謂的橫向平台要真正來落實合作跟對話可不可以我們把備案做好因為現在委外在研究我們備案出來以後跨部會會來協調\n最後我要提醒主委蔡總統她在105年的時候她跟原住民道歉她曾經承諾過要推動原住民的自治要推動原住民的土地跟海洋海域法然後轉型政業要納入原住民可是到現在全部都飄跳\n跳票了所以我在想既然剛剛主委您也非常贊同而且你們也簽署了這個所謂的打狗宣言要強調傳統知識保障跟維護我們真的希望拿出具體的作為然後以上可能還沒有辦法具體講述的部分我也請相關的業務同仁能夠到我的辦公室來我們到一定的進度有內容的時候我們就跟委員報告好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.870 --> 00:24.808\n主委早看到4月14號海委會的國家海洋研究院還有中山大學主辦的2025國際太平洋海洋教育工作者網絡國際研討會你們邀請了日本加拿大美國還有澳洲等地的學者\n\n00:26.690 --> 00:46.231\n針對傳統生態知識視角下的海洋素養來對話來自亞太的聲音的議題探討然後最後閉幕的時候你們還發布了一個打狗宣言那打狗宣言的重要內容包含優先考量傳統生態知識系統並且要保障傳統族群的權利\n\n00:47.096 --> 01:15.516\n然後各國要建立制度框架來保護並且來支持傳統生態知識的社群權利還有海洋保育中傳統生態知識要納入政策制定的核心要素以及促進海洋科學家跟社區居民的深度合作還有海洋科學研究資金優先支持來社群參與然後建立國際平台有七大承諾很多沒有錯吧\n\n01:16.096 --> 01:42.728\n是好請問主委你有共同連署了嗎他們的連署還是主要以他們的成員為主那我們有象徵性的連署但是那個連署書沒有要讓他們帶去聯合國帶去聯合國去倡議的部分是他們自己社群的人才有資格做連署所以我們有象徵性好所以象徵性也就是說海委會你們願意承諾海洋政策會往這個方向來進展對不對\n\n01:44.028 --> 02:00.802\n各位委員報告我在這個會中我也去分享了我們已經有做的部分那他們對於說我們的海保法可以把原住民的諮商同意權放進去可以把原住民加漁民成為少數有否決權\n\n02:01.903 --> 02:25.371\n他們對於這兩點印象非常的深刻因為這就代表著說我們原住民族的傳統的海洋的智慧傳統的生態的知識是被我們引進到決策的程序那這一點他們覺得我們做得很好對也就是大家非常的努力嘛然後你這個打狗宣言其實也跟本席\n\n02:26.311 --> 02:49.870\n當時我們在審海洋保育法的時候我非常堅持的核心理念所以我們可以說是創紀錄的把這個少數否決權放進來所以因此我們有要求要求六個月之內要在原住民地區各縣市辦理至少三場次的相關法案的說明會\n\n02:50.951 --> 03:20.531\n並且也邀請我們族人參與然後積極來溝通嘛對不對然後讓我們的族人了解一下這個法的利弊得失還有後續的會有影響請問一下現在我們這個場是辦理的怎麼樣我們辦完了五場然後執法的部分你知道參與的人數有多少嗎然後執法的人數我們也都陸陸續續有做你知道有多少人參加嗎這三場總共是一百多人那詳細的情形我是不是請署長來說明好可以\n\n03:22.812 --> 03:48.086\n為什麼這麼少人我們當時解讀的這個然後也跟溝通的過程所以當時的認定是沒有我現在問你為什麼那麼少人我們基本上在地所有的部落我們其實都有發你們進入到部落了嗎然後你們去你們去這個這個這個開展的這個座談會是在禮拜幾所以其實問題蠻大的所以呢其實我也看到了我們的主任他有在這個\n\n03:48.886 --> 04:05.923\n雖然105個人參加他有提出幾個疑慮第一個疑慮就是要求你們要到部落再去召開說明會對吧然後還有誤犯的時候怎麼樣來減輕這樣的機制還有就是原住民文化記憶之間跟我們這個法律的競合問題還有\n\n04:07.705 --> 04:34.815\n批戶區劃設的原住民代表的比例其實呢這些都是我們在修這個癌包法的時候本席非常堅持的立場那請問一下我們有第8條第19條第26條對不對好這個我就不再因為時間的關係我就不再說明了那這這三條當中我們有講到非常多的問題就是你的配套執法請問一下配套執法什麼時候會出來是\n\n04:36.255 --> 04:56.888\n也跟委員這邊說明一下目前我們所有的14個執法應該現在有8個已經預告完成了那我剛剛講的第8條第19條第26條這跟原住民都有相關的問題而且也跟你們剛剛主委所說的打狗宣言的這個不謀而合我們的理念是不謀而合是跟委員說明第26條就是針對如果他之後有任何的\n\n05:01.171 --> 05:27.928\n不OK受罰的他必須要受獎習課程那這是第26條那目前這個執法已經預告完成然後再做後面的法制作業有嗎有這三條有嗎第8條第19條第26條有嗎第19條是獎勵的部分那獎勵的部分基本上是我們已經有這個獎勵辦法已經完成已經是在會內作業那第26條呢保育獎期的課程要納入原住民族知識還有原住民族生物多樣性的課程呢\n\n05:28.268 --> 05:43.231\n跟委員說明一下就是這個的執法是已經預告完成然後現在在做法沒有我現在跟你問你的是第19條有26條內容是什麼內容有包含他必須要含原住民相關的這個知識跟原住民相關的內容\n\n05:43.692 --> 06:11.314\n那你們該怎麼做他如果受罰之後他基本上有不同的課程要上那我們在去年的十月也開始起了一個標案就是針對這些的課程開始要編這些的教材那目前的規劃是他會有兩個小時的教材四個小時的教材跟八個小時的教材那裡面都有含教材怎麼來呃先跟呃跟委員說明是這些教材現在在走的過程裡面他有涉及原住民相關的這個部分我們會請原住民的呃專家老師跟部落的人幫我們看過那因為是去年十月\n\n06:11.394 --> 06:37.869\n你覺得現在原民會有建立一個知識體系嗎有這個也會納在這個的這個標案他們去參考的裡面那特別針對原住民用海的部分我們今年也有一個計畫是在調查整個東海岸的原住民的傳統用海所以它等於是從那個資料庫裡面它有理論的知識然後再透過今年的這個原住民用海的這個調查它會有各種不同的案例所以這些都會納在這個因為時間的關係在這邊我有三個強烈的要求好不好主委您\n\n06:38.869 --> 07:05.763\n第一個打狗宣言既然強調的是傳統生態知識我們希望你們拿出具體的規劃、期程還有做法第二個海洋保育法裡面的國際交流補助你們應該要編列專門的經費來支持族人怎麼樣去催廣跟交流傳統生態知識第三個海洋保育法裡面原住民知識跟原住民族生養多樣性的課程\n\n07:06.343 --> 07:28.517\n我認為你們應該要結合原住民族知識體系也就是原民會現在其實已經在建立了必須要由海委會教育部還有原民會你們來進行這個所謂的橫向平台要真正來落實合作跟對話可不可以我們把備案做好因為現在委外在研究我們備案出來以後跨部會會來協調\n\n07:30.678 --> 07:45.629\n最後我要提醒主委蔡總統她在105年的時候她跟原住民道歉她曾經承諾過要推動原住民的自治要推動原住民的土地跟海洋海域法然後轉型政業要納入原住民可是到現在全部都飄跳\n\n07:46.509 --> 08:13.345\n跳票了所以我在想既然剛剛主委您也非常贊同而且你們也簽署了這個所謂的打狗宣言要強調傳統知識保障跟維護我們真的希望拿出具體的作為然後以上可能還沒有辦法具體講述的部分我也請相關的業務同仁能夠到我的辦公室來我們到一定的進度有內容的時候我們就跟委員報告好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.87,"end":24.808,"text":"主委早看到4月14號海委會的國家海洋研究院還有中山大學主辦的2025國際太平洋海洋教育工作者網絡國際研討會你們邀請了日本加拿大美國還有澳洲等地的學者"},{"start":26.69,"end":46.231,"text":"針對傳統生態知識視角下的海洋素養來對話來自亞太的聲音的議題探討然後最後閉幕的時候你們還發布了一個打狗宣言那打狗宣言的重要內容包含優先考量傳統生態知識系統並且要保障傳統族群的權利"},{"start":47.096,"end":75.516,"text":"然後各國要建立制度框架來保護並且來支持傳統生態知識的社群權利還有海洋保育中傳統生態知識要納入政策制定的核心要素以及促進海洋科學家跟社區居民的深度合作還有海洋科學研究資金優先支持來社群參與然後建立國際平台有七大承諾很多沒有錯吧"},{"start":76.096,"end":102.728,"text":"是好請問主委你有共同連署了嗎他們的連署還是主要以他們的成員為主那我們有象徵性的連署但是那個連署書沒有要讓他們帶去聯合國帶去聯合國去倡議的部分是他們自己社群的人才有資格做連署所以我們有象徵性好所以象徵性也就是說海委會你們願意承諾海洋政策會往這個方向來進展對不對"},{"start":104.028,"end":120.802,"text":"各位委員報告我在這個會中我也去分享了我們已經有做的部分那他們對於說我們的海保法可以把原住民的諮商同意權放進去可以把原住民加漁民成為少數有否決權"},{"start":121.903,"end":145.371,"text":"他們對於這兩點印象非常的深刻因為這就代表著說我們原住民族的傳統的海洋的智慧傳統的生態的知識是被我們引進到決策的程序那這一點他們覺得我們做得很好對 也就是大家非常的努力嘛然後你這個打狗宣言其實也跟本席"},{"start":146.311,"end":169.87,"text":"當時我們在審海洋保育法的時候我非常堅持的核心理念所以我們可以說是創紀錄的把這個少數否決權放進來所以因此我們有要求要求六個月之內要在原住民地區各縣市辦理至少三場次的相關法案的說明會"},{"start":170.951,"end":200.531,"text":"並且也邀請我們族人參與然後積極來溝通嘛對不對然後讓我們的族人了解一下這個法的利弊得失還有後續的會有影響請問一下現在我們這個場是辦理的怎麼樣我們辦完了五場然後執法的部分你知道參與的人數有多少嗎然後執法的人數我們也都陸陸續續有做你知道有多少人參加嗎這三場總共是一百多人那詳細的情形我是不是請署長來說明好可以"},{"start":202.812,"end":228.086,"text":"為什麼這麼少人我們當時解讀的這個然後也跟溝通的過程所以當時的認定是沒有我現在問你為什麼那麼少人我們基本上在地所有的部落我們其實都有發你們進入到部落了嗎然後你們去你們去這個這個這個開展的這個座談會是在禮拜幾所以其實問題蠻大的所以呢其實我也看到了我們的主任他有在這個"},{"start":228.886,"end":245.923,"text":"雖然105個人參加他有提出幾個疑慮第一個疑慮就是要求你們要到部落再去召開說明會 對吧然後還有誤犯的時候怎麼樣來減輕這樣的機制還有就是原住民文化記憶之間跟我們這個法律的競合問題還有"},{"start":247.705,"end":274.815,"text":"批戶區劃設的原住民代表的比例其實呢這些都是我們在修這個癌包法的時候本席非常堅持的立場那請問一下我們有第8條第19條第26條對不對好這個我就不再因為時間的關係我就不再說明了那這這三條當中我們有講到非常多的問題就是你的配套執法請問一下配套執法什麼時候會出來是"},{"start":276.255,"end":296.888,"text":"也跟委員這邊說明一下目前我們所有的14個執法應該現在有8個已經預告完成了那我剛剛講的第8條第19條第26條這跟原住民都有相關的問題而且也跟你們剛剛主委所說的打狗宣言的這個不謀而合我們的理念是不謀而合是跟委員說明第26條就是針對如果他之後有任何的"},{"start":301.171,"end":327.928,"text":"不OK受罰的他必須要受獎習課程那這是第26條那目前這個執法已經預告完成然後再做後面的法制作業有嗎有這三條有嗎第8條第19條第26條有嗎第19條是獎勵的部分那獎勵的部分基本上是我們已經有這個獎勵辦法已經完成已經是在會內作業那第26條呢保育獎期的課程要納入原住民族知識還有原住民族生物多樣性的課程呢"},{"start":328.268,"end":343.231,"text":"跟委員說明一下就是這個的執法是已經預告完成然後現在在做法沒有我現在跟你問你的是第19條有26條內容是什麼內容有包含他必須要含原住民相關的這個知識跟原住民相關的內容"},{"start":343.692,"end":371.314,"text":"那你們該怎麼做他如果受罰之後他基本上有不同的課程要上那我們在去年的十月也開始起了一個標案就是針對這些的課程開始要編這些的教材那目前的規劃是他會有兩個小時的教材四個小時的教材跟八個小時的教材那裡面都有含教材怎麼來呃先跟呃跟委員說明是這些教材現在在走的過程裡面他有涉及原住民相關的這個部分我們會請原住民的呃專家老師跟部落的人幫我們看過那因為是去年十月"},{"start":371.394,"end":397.869,"text":"你覺得現在原民會有建立一個知識體系嗎有 這個也會納在這個的這個標案他們去參考的裡面那特別針對原住民用海的部分我們今年也有一個計畫是在調查整個東海岸的原住民的傳統用海所以它等於是從那個資料庫裡面它有理論的知識然後再透過今年的這個原住民用海的這個調查它會有各種不同的案例所以這些都會納在這個因為時間的關係在這邊我有三個強烈的要求好不好 主委您"},{"start":398.869,"end":425.763,"text":"第一個打狗宣言既然強調的是傳統生態知識我們希望你們拿出具體的規劃、期程還有做法第二個海洋保育法裡面的國際交流補助你們應該要編列專門的經費來支持族人怎麼樣去催廣跟交流傳統生態知識第三個海洋保育法裡面原住民知識跟原住民族生養多樣性的課程"},{"start":426.343,"end":448.517,"text":"我認為你們應該要結合原住民族知識體系也就是原民會現在其實已經在建立了必須要由海委會教育部還有原民會你們來進行這個所謂的橫向平台要真正來落實合作跟對話可不可以我們把備案做好因為現在委外在研究我們備案出來以後跨部會會來協調"},{"start":450.678,"end":465.629,"text":"最後我要提醒主委蔡總統她在105年的時候她跟原住民道歉她曾經承諾過要推動原住民的自治要推動原住民的土地跟海洋海域法然後轉型政業要納入原住民可是到現在全部都飄跳"},{"start":466.509,"end":493.345,"text":"跳票了所以我在想既然剛剛主委您也非常贊同而且你們也簽署了這個所謂的打狗宣言要強調傳統知識保障跟維護我們真的希望拿出具體的作為然後以上可能還沒有辦法具體講述的部分我也請相關的業務同仁能夠到我的辦公室來我們到一定的進度有內容的時候我們就跟委員報告好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":529,"blocks":[["高金委員素梅：（10時47分）謝謝召委，有請主委。"],["主席：請主委。"],["管主任委員碧玲：委員好。"],["高金委員素梅：主委早。4月14號海委會的國家海洋研究院還有中山大學主辦的「2025年國際太平洋海洋教育者網絡國際研討會」，你們邀請了日本、加拿大、美國及澳洲等地的學者，針對「傳統生態知識視角下的海洋素養對話：來自亞太的聲音」議題進行探討，最後閉幕的時候你們還發布了一個打狗宣言，打狗宣言的重要內容包含：優先考量傳統生態知識系統，並且要保障傳統族群的權利；各國要建立制度框架，來保護並且來支持傳統生態知識的社群權利；在海洋保育中，傳統生態知識要納入政策制定的核心要素；促進海洋科學家跟社區居民的深度合作；海洋科學研究資金優先支持社群參與；建立國際平臺。有七大承諾，很多，沒有錯吧？"],["管主任委員碧玲：是。"],["高金委員素梅：好，請問主委，你有共同連署了嗎？"],["管主任委員碧玲：他們的連署主要以他們的成員為主，我們有象徵性的連署，但是那個連署書沒有要讓他們帶去聯合國，帶去聯合國倡議的部分是他們自己社群的人才有資格做連署，而我們有象徵性的連署。"],["高金委員素梅：好，所謂象徵性也就是說，海委會你們願意承諾海洋政策會往這個方向來進展，對不對？"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告，我在這個會中也去分享了我們已經有做的部分，針對我們的海保法可以把原住民的諮商同意權放進去、可以把原住民加漁民成為少數有否決權，他們對於這兩點印象非常的深刻，因為這就代表著我們原住民族傳統的海洋智慧、傳統的生態知識是被我們引進到決策的程序，這一點他們覺得我們做得很好。"],["高金委員素梅：對，也就是大家非常的努力，這個打狗宣言其實也是當時我們在審海洋保育法的時候，本席非常堅持的核心理念，對不對？"],["管主任委員碧玲：對，所以我們可以說是創紀錄的把少數否決權放進來。"],["高金委員素梅：因此，我們有要求六個月之內要在原住民地區各縣市辦理至少3場次的相關法案的說明會，並且邀請我們族人參與，然後積極來溝通，讓我們的族人了解一下這個法的利弊得失，還有後續會有的影響。請問一下，現在這個場次辦理的怎麼樣？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們辦完了5場，然後子法的部分……"],["高金委員素梅：你知道參與的人數有多少嗎？"],["管主任委員碧玲：然後子法的部分我們也都陸陸續續有做……"],["高金委員素梅：你知道這3場有多少人參加嗎？"],["管主任委員碧玲：總共是一百多人，詳細的情形我是不是請署長來說明？"],["高金委員素梅：可以。"],["陸署長曉筠：委員好。"],["高金委員素梅：為什麼這麼少人？"],["陸署長曉筠：委員，我們當時解讀跟溝通的過程，所以當時的認定是……"],["高金委員素梅：沒有，我現在問你的是為什麼那麼少人？"],["陸署長曉筠：我們基本上在地所有的部落都有發。"],["高金委員素梅：你們進入到部落了嗎？你們去舉行座談會是在禮拜幾？所以其實問題蠻大的，雖然是105個人參加，我也看到了我們的族人有提出幾個疑慮，第一個疑慮就是要求你們要到部落再去召開說明會，對吧？還有誤犯的時候怎麼樣減輕的機制，以及原住民文化祭儀跟這個法律之間的競合問題，和庇護區劃設的原住民代表的比例，其實這些都是我們在修海保法的時候本席非常堅持的立場。請問一下，我們有第八條、第十九條、第二十六條，因為時間的關係，我就不再說明，這3條當中我們有講到非常多的問題，就是你的配套子法，請問一下配套子法什麼時候會出來？"],["陸署長曉筠：也跟委員說明一下，我們所有的14個子法，現在有8個已經預告完成了。"],["高金委員素梅：我剛剛講的第八條、第十九條、第二十六條跟原住民都有相關，而且也跟剛剛主委所說的打狗宣言不謀而合，我們的理念是不謀而合。"],["陸署長曉筠：跟委員說明，第二十六條是針對如果他之後有任何的不OK要受罰的，他必須要受講習課程，這是第二十六條的規定，目前這個子法已經預告完成，現在在進行後面的法制作業……"],["高金委員素梅：有嗎？"],["陸署長曉筠：有，這部分……"],["高金委員素梅：這三條有嗎？第八條、第十九條、第二十六條有嗎？"],["陸署長曉筠：第十九條是獎勵的部分，針對獎勵的部分，基本上我們的獎勵辦法已經完成，已經在會內作業。"],["高金委員素梅：第二十六條呢？"],["陸署長曉筠：第二十六條目前……"],["高金委員素梅：保育講習要納入原住民族知識以及原住民族生物多樣性的課程呢？"],["陸署長曉筠：跟委員說明一下，這項子法已經預告完成，現在正在進行法制作業。"],["高金委員素梅：我現在問你的是第十九條……"],["陸署長曉筠：有，第二十六條……"],["高金委員素梅：內容是什麼？"],["陸署長曉筠：內容包含它必須要含原住民相關的知識以及原住民相關的內容，就是如果……"],["高金委員素梅：那你們該怎麼做？"],["陸署長曉筠：他如果受罰之後，基本上他有不同的課程要上，我們在去年10月也開始起了一個標案，就是針對這些課程要開始編相關教材，目前的規劃是它會有2個小時的教材、4個小時的教材和8個小時的教材，裡面都有含……"],["高金委員素梅：教材怎麼來？"],["陸署長曉筠：跟委員說明，這些教材在編的過程裡面，如果有涉及原住民相關的部分，我們會請原住民的專家、老師跟部落的人幫我們看過，因為是去年10月起的案子……"],["高金委員素梅：你知道現在原民會有建立一個知識體系嗎？"],["陸署長曉筠：有，這個也會納在這個標案裡面讓他們去參考，特別針對原住民用海的部分，我們今年也有一個計畫是在調查整個東海岸原住民的傳統用海，等於是在那個資料庫裡面有理論的知識，然後再透過今年的原住民用海調查，會有各種不同的案例，所以這些都會納在一般的課程裡面，我們再把詳細的資料跟委員報告。"],["高金委員素梅：因為時間的關係，在這邊我有三個強烈的要求，請主委您聽一下：第一個，打狗宣言既然強調的是傳統生態知識，我們希望你們拿出具體的規劃、期程及做法……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們再跟委員報告。"],["高金委員素梅：第二個，針對海洋保育法裡面的國際交流補助，你們應該要編列專門的經費來支持族人去推廣及交流傳統生態知識。第三個，有關海洋保育法裡面原住民知識跟原住民族生物多樣性的課程，我認為你們應該要結合原住民族知識體系，也就是原民會現在其實已經在建立了，必須要由海委會、教育部及原民會來進行所謂的橫向平臺，要真正落實合作跟對話，這三項可不可以？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們會把備案做好，因為現在委外在研究，等備案出來以後會進行跨部會協調。"],["高金委員素梅：最後我要提醒主委，蔡總統在105年的時候跟原住民道歉，他曾經承諾過要推動原住民自治、要推動原住民族土地及海域法，然後轉型正義要納入原住民，可是現在全部都跳票了，所以我在想既然剛剛主委您也非常贊同，而且你們也簽署了所謂的打狗宣言，要強調傳統知識保障跟維護，我們真的希望你們拿出具體的作為。以上可能還沒有辦法具體講述的部分，也請相關的業務同仁能夠到我的辦公室來，再來一起討論好嗎？"],["管主任委員碧玲：好，到一定的進度、有內容的時候，我們就跟委員報告。"],["高金委員素梅：好，謝謝。"],["主席：請徐欣瑩委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":346,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-11","speakers":["張宏陸","張智倫","蘇巧慧","王美惠","黃建賓","李柏毅","麥玉珍","黃捷","牛煦庭","許宇甄","高金素梅","徐欣瑩","陳培瑜","林倩綺","吳琪銘","陳冠廷","徐富癸","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","鍾佳濱","丁學忠"],"page_start":297,"meetingDate":["2025-04-17"],"gazette_id":"1143801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143801_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請海洋委員會主任委員率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143801_00005"}}}