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389.454, \"end\": 389.694, \"score\": 0.757}, {\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 389.694, \"end\": 390.334, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 390.334, \"end\": 390.494, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 390.494, \"end\": 390.714, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"向\", \"start\": 390.714, \"end\": 392.055, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 392.055, \"end\": 392.075, \"score\": 0.621}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 392.075, \"end\": 392.155, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 392.155, \"end\": 392.175, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 393.896, \"end\": 394.037, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"谢\", \"start\": 394.037, \"end\": 394.137, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"谢\", \"start\": 394.137, \"end\": 394.318, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 394.318, \"end\": 394.438, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 394.438, \"end\": 394.679, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"谢\", \"start\": 394.679, \"end\": 394.84, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"谢\", \"start\": 394.84, \"end\": 394.86, \"score\": 0.05}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,151 --> 00:00:00,394\n主委\n\n2\n00:00:10,202 --> 00:00:32,172\n主委好,我看最近很多灰色輕勞,我們的海委會海巡署真的都辛苦了但是除了辛苦之外,我們還有一部分想要請教,也是跟最近美方的合作的可能性昨天我在質詢國防部部長的時候,我有提到說現在美國特別是在造船業,他們希望是復興造船業\n\n3\n00:00:32,992 --> 00:00:54,285\n那針對中國在海上的侵擾不管是透過他們軍事準軍事非軍事各種手段那已經是非常嚴峻的問題那在這樣嚴峻的問題下我們有沒有足夠的這個船艦來去應對我想這是一個大災問因為看起來以中國的造船數量跟他們的造船實力如同我昨天\n\n4\n00:00:54,725 --> 00:01:19,374\n引據CSIS的這個資訊也可以看得出來他大概是佔了全球大概53%那剩下就由韓國日本跟其他國家來去負擔這個船艦的製造那就我所知報告中有提到說我們113年完成15艘然後58艘艇要交付高緯度的這個遠洋巡護船也已經動工\n\n5\n00:01:21,034 --> 00:01:34,870\n但是我也觀察到海巡署我們現在轄下的船艦那1000噸以上大型船艦大概只有14艘那在2000噸到3000噸的對比中國海警的這一個擁有的艦艇大概數量是我國的10倍\n\n6\n00:01:35,851 --> 00:01:58,088\n也就是說在這樣的狀況之下我們要推動國建國造我們強調本土的產業鏈的建構但是同時我們也知道說在這樣的數量比例如此的不均衡的狀況之下那跟主要的盟國合作是必須且一定要盡速去做的想請教主委有沒有跟這些相關的單位來接觸過然後討論過這樣的議題\n\n7\n00:02:01,096 --> 00:02:22,117\n跟委員報告就是說我們跟多邊的國家有進行合作但是合作的項目裡面要來包括說能夠補我們艦船艇數量不足的這個部分可能會比較困難我們目前合作的領域\n\n8\n00:02:23,037 --> 00:02:42,370\n因為這個都涉及領海領階區主權這相關的考量但是我們鄰國甚至於遠自歐洲而來對於台灣海峽作為自由航行公海\n\n9\n00:02:43,831 --> 00:02:58,699\n這樣的一個共識是有的那這個部分其實以去年來講大概有十個國家十個國家的艦船的軍艦航行經過那我現在講的主要是針對製造的量跟製造的部分我們剛剛提到船艦量比較不夠不知道海巡還有沒有這樣的構想\n\n10\n00:03:10,706 --> 00:03:33,800\n就是合作這樣子跟摩托合作特別是我們的造船當然是以國艦國造為優先但是如果未來我們新的造艦計畫遇到說國內的製造的量能情況都已經滿載的情況那我們既然是開國際標當然也有可能譬如說我們的調查船\n\n11\n00:03:34,580 --> 00:03:53,725\n都很有可能會是國外去標到都有可能但是海巡目前還是以國艦國造為我們的主軸我的意思是說以我們現在的狀況我們的海巡我們的要講艦隊也好我們的這樣子的能量\n\n12\n00:03:55,005 --> 00:04:09,036\n它數量是夠還是不夠我想當然是不夠的因為面對中國這麼多就算我們國產我們全力去推動我們的產業鏈但是還是有一定的局限就是我們沒有辦法製造那麼多的產業但是如同我們剛才講的\n\n13\n00:04:10,365 --> 00:04:25,376\n雖然說中國他建造的數量是我們的數以十倍但是如果我們納入我們同盟的朋友比方說日本比方說韓國比方說美國那我們的產量就可以倍增我的意思是說除了我們協助在維修上面也好\n\n14\n00:04:25,876 --> 00:04:46,693\n在造船材料模具電供系統方面提供我們的能量讓我們的盟友能夠建造更多建造更快之外我們也要思考說怎麼樣在全球的產業鏈特別是跟我國比較友好的國家能夠讓他們協助我們也擴大我們的產業鏈我們講的產業鏈不是只有製造而已甚至我一直在強調就是說我們購買\n\n15\n00:04:50,040 --> 00:05:05,658\n建造有沒有可能租用那確保說我們的這個在海巡的這些艦艇數量能夠有效的應對這是第一個部分所以我昨天在問這個顧部長我說有沒有想到要跟美方合作\n\n16\n00:05:06,559 --> 00:05:29,086\n他說現在有一些東西沒有辦法揭露這個資訊但是他們有這樣的意向所以我在這邊是想問一下主委有沒有意向跟美方合作我們提供我們的這些技術也好共同去計畫也好共同去生產也好是不是把這個市場做大能夠增加我們在海巡在我們在海洋上面能夠面對灰色侵擾的能力\n\n17\n00:05:33,087 --> 00:05:48,811\n如果是去租用船就涉及也是人的問題那我們每一年能夠培訓起來的人力也導致於我們造船的速度也等於影響到我們造船的速度\n\n18\n00:05:49,611 --> 00:06:03,267\n所以在這個部分要來進行國際合作的時候又有區域穩定跟國安層級的問題那這個部分決策的層級可能就不在於我們海巡或者是海委會\n\n19\n00:06:04,588 --> 00:06:32,175\n那也是一個涉及主權行使上面的國際合作的課題所以這個部分比較高度的複雜性我們會後有機會再跟委員多請教多探討看看委員的願景跟藍圖如果比較具體值得我們來學習研議考量的方向我們會來了解\n\n20\n00:06:33,896 --> 00:06:34,860\n好谢谢主委谢谢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n151\t394\t主委\n10202\t32172\t主委好,我看最近很多灰色輕勞,我們的海委會海巡署真的都辛苦了但是除了辛苦之外,我們還有一部分想要請教,也是跟最近美方的合作的可能性昨天我在質詢國防部部長的時候,我有提到說現在美國特別是在造船業,他們希望是復興造船業\n32992\t54285\t那針對中國在海上的侵擾不管是透過他們軍事準軍事非軍事各種手段那已經是非常嚴峻的問題那在這樣嚴峻的問題下我們有沒有足夠的這個船艦來去應對我想這是一個大災問因為看起來以中國的造船數量跟他們的造船實力如同我昨天\n54725\t79374\t引據CSIS的這個資訊也可以看得出來他大概是佔了全球大概53%那剩下就由韓國日本跟其他國家來去負擔這個船艦的製造那就我所知報告中有提到說我們113年完成15艘然後58艘艇要交付高緯度的這個遠洋巡護船也已經動工\n81034\t94870\t但是我也觀察到海巡署我們現在轄下的船艦那1000噸以上大型船艦大概只有14艘那在2000噸到3000噸的對比中國海警的這一個擁有的艦艇大概數量是我國的10倍\n95851\t118088\t也就是說在這樣的狀況之下我們要推動國建國造我們強調本土的產業鏈的建構但是同時我們也知道說在這樣的數量比例如此的不均衡的狀況之下那跟主要的盟國合作是必須且一定要盡速去做的想請教主委有沒有跟這些相關的單位來接觸過然後討論過這樣的議題\n121096\t142117\t跟委員報告就是說我們跟多邊的國家有進行合作但是合作的項目裡面要來包括說能夠補我們艦船艇數量不足的這個部分可能會比較困難我們目前合作的領域\n143037\t162370\t因為這個都涉及領海領階區主權這相關的考量但是我們鄰國甚至於遠自歐洲而來對於台灣海峽作為自由航行公海\n163831\t178699\t這樣的一個共識是有的那這個部分其實以去年來講大概有十個國家十個國家的艦船的軍艦航行經過那我現在講的主要是針對製造的量跟製造的部分我們剛剛提到船艦量比較不夠不知道海巡還有沒有這樣的構想\n190706\t213800\t就是合作這樣子跟摩托合作特別是我們的造船當然是以國艦國造為優先但是如果未來我們新的造艦計畫遇到說國內的製造的量能情況都已經滿載的情況那我們既然是開國際標當然也有可能譬如說我們的調查船\n214580\t233725\t都很有可能會是國外去標到都有可能但是海巡目前還是以國艦國造為我們的主軸我的意思是說以我們現在的狀況我們的海巡我們的要講艦隊也好我們的這樣子的能量\n235005\t249036\t它數量是夠還是不夠我想當然是不夠的因為面對中國這麼多就算我們國產我們全力去推動我們的產業鏈但是還是有一定的局限就是我們沒有辦法製造那麼多的產業但是如同我們剛才講的\n250365\t265376\t雖然說中國他建造的數量是我們的數以十倍但是如果我們納入我們同盟的朋友比方說日本比方說韓國比方說美國那我們的產量就可以倍增我的意思是說除了我們協助在維修上面也好\n265876\t286693\t在造船材料模具電供系統方面提供我們的能量讓我們的盟友能夠建造更多建造更快之外我們也要思考說怎麼樣在全球的產業鏈特別是跟我國比較友好的國家能夠讓他們協助我們也擴大我們的產業鏈我們講的產業鏈不是只有製造而已甚至我一直在強調就是說我們購買\n290040\t305658\t建造有沒有可能租用那確保說我們的這個在海巡的這些艦艇數量能夠有效的應對這是第一個部分所以我昨天在問這個顧部長我說有沒有想到要跟美方合作\n306559\t329086\t他說現在有一些東西沒有辦法揭露這個資訊但是他們有這樣的意向所以我在這邊是想問一下主委有沒有意向跟美方合作我們提供我們的這些技術也好共同去計畫也好共同去生產也好是不是把這個市場做大能夠增加我們在海巡在我們在海洋上面能夠面對灰色侵擾的能力\n333087\t348811\t如果是去租用船就涉及也是人的問題那我們每一年能夠培訓起來的人力也導致於我們造船的速度也等於影響到我們造船的速度\n349611\t363267\t所以在這個部分要來進行國際合作的時候又有區域穩定跟國安層級的問題那這個部分決策的層級可能就不在於我們海巡或者是海委會\n364588\t392175\t那也是一個涉及主權行使上面的國際合作的課題所以這個部分比較高度的複雜性我們會後有機會再跟委員多請教多探討看看委員的願景跟藍圖如果比較具體值得我們來學習研議考量的方向我們會來了解\n393896\t394860\t好 谢谢主委 谢谢\n","txt":"主委\n主委好,我看最近很多灰色輕勞,我們的海委會海巡署真的都辛苦了但是除了辛苦之外,我們還有一部分想要請教,也是跟最近美方的合作的可能性昨天我在質詢國防部部長的時候,我有提到說現在美國特別是在造船業,他們希望是復興造船業\n那針對中國在海上的侵擾不管是透過他們軍事準軍事非軍事各種手段那已經是非常嚴峻的問題那在這樣嚴峻的問題下我們有沒有足夠的這個船艦來去應對我想這是一個大災問因為看起來以中國的造船數量跟他們的造船實力如同我昨天\n引據CSIS的這個資訊也可以看得出來他大概是佔了全球大概53%那剩下就由韓國日本跟其他國家來去負擔這個船艦的製造那就我所知報告中有提到說我們113年完成15艘然後58艘艇要交付高緯度的這個遠洋巡護船也已經動工\n但是我也觀察到海巡署我們現在轄下的船艦那1000噸以上大型船艦大概只有14艘那在2000噸到3000噸的對比中國海警的這一個擁有的艦艇大概數量是我國的10倍\n也就是說在這樣的狀況之下我們要推動國建國造我們強調本土的產業鏈的建構但是同時我們也知道說在這樣的數量比例如此的不均衡的狀況之下那跟主要的盟國合作是必須且一定要盡速去做的想請教主委有沒有跟這些相關的單位來接觸過然後討論過這樣的議題\n跟委員報告就是說我們跟多邊的國家有進行合作但是合作的項目裡面要來包括說能夠補我們艦船艇數量不足的這個部分可能會比較困難我們目前合作的領域\n因為這個都涉及領海領階區主權這相關的考量但是我們鄰國甚至於遠自歐洲而來對於台灣海峽作為自由航行公海\n這樣的一個共識是有的那這個部分其實以去年來講大概有十個國家十個國家的艦船的軍艦航行經過那我現在講的主要是針對製造的量跟製造的部分我們剛剛提到船艦量比較不夠不知道海巡還有沒有這樣的構想\n就是合作這樣子跟摩托合作特別是我們的造船當然是以國艦國造為優先但是如果未來我們新的造艦計畫遇到說國內的製造的量能情況都已經滿載的情況那我們既然是開國際標當然也有可能譬如說我們的調查船\n都很有可能會是國外去標到都有可能但是海巡目前還是以國艦國造為我們的主軸我的意思是說以我們現在的狀況我們的海巡我們的要講艦隊也好我們的這樣子的能量\n它數量是夠還是不夠我想當然是不夠的因為面對中國這麼多就算我們國產我們全力去推動我們的產業鏈但是還是有一定的局限就是我們沒有辦法製造那麼多的產業但是如同我們剛才講的\n雖然說中國他建造的數量是我們的數以十倍但是如果我們納入我們同盟的朋友比方說日本比方說韓國比方說美國那我們的產量就可以倍增我的意思是說除了我們協助在維修上面也好\n在造船材料模具電供系統方面提供我們的能量讓我們的盟友能夠建造更多建造更快之外我們也要思考說怎麼樣在全球的產業鏈特別是跟我國比較友好的國家能夠讓他們協助我們也擴大我們的產業鏈我們講的產業鏈不是只有製造而已甚至我一直在強調就是說我們購買\n建造有沒有可能租用那確保說我們的這個在海巡的這些艦艇數量能夠有效的應對這是第一個部分所以我昨天在問這個顧部長我說有沒有想到要跟美方合作\n他說現在有一些東西沒有辦法揭露這個資訊但是他們有這樣的意向所以我在這邊是想問一下主委有沒有意向跟美方合作我們提供我們的這些技術也好共同去計畫也好共同去生產也好是不是把這個市場做大能夠增加我們在海巡在我們在海洋上面能夠面對灰色侵擾的能力\n如果是去租用船就涉及也是人的問題那我們每一年能夠培訓起來的人力也導致於我們造船的速度也等於影響到我們造船的速度\n所以在這個部分要來進行國際合作的時候又有區域穩定跟國安層級的問題那這個部分決策的層級可能就不在於我們海巡或者是海委會\n那也是一個涉及主權行使上面的國際合作的課題所以這個部分比較高度的複雜性我們會後有機會再跟委員多請教多探討看看委員的願景跟藍圖如果比較具體值得我們來學習研議考量的方向我們會來了解\n好 谢谢主委 谢谢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.151 --> 00:00.394\n主委\n\n00:10.202 --> 00:32.172\n主委好,我看最近很多灰色輕勞,我們的海委會海巡署真的都辛苦了但是除了辛苦之外,我們還有一部分想要請教,也是跟最近美方的合作的可能性昨天我在質詢國防部部長的時候,我有提到說現在美國特別是在造船業,他們希望是復興造船業\n\n00:32.992 --> 00:54.285\n那針對中國在海上的侵擾不管是透過他們軍事準軍事非軍事各種手段那已經是非常嚴峻的問題那在這樣嚴峻的問題下我們有沒有足夠的這個船艦來去應對我想這是一個大災問因為看起來以中國的造船數量跟他們的造船實力如同我昨天\n\n00:54.725 --> 01:19.374\n引據CSIS的這個資訊也可以看得出來他大概是佔了全球大概53%那剩下就由韓國日本跟其他國家來去負擔這個船艦的製造那就我所知報告中有提到說我們113年完成15艘然後58艘艇要交付高緯度的這個遠洋巡護船也已經動工\n\n01:21.034 --> 01:34.870\n但是我也觀察到海巡署我們現在轄下的船艦那1000噸以上大型船艦大概只有14艘那在2000噸到3000噸的對比中國海警的這一個擁有的艦艇大概數量是我國的10倍\n\n01:35.851 --> 01:58.088\n也就是說在這樣的狀況之下我們要推動國建國造我們強調本土的產業鏈的建構但是同時我們也知道說在這樣的數量比例如此的不均衡的狀況之下那跟主要的盟國合作是必須且一定要盡速去做的想請教主委有沒有跟這些相關的單位來接觸過然後討論過這樣的議題\n\n02:01.096 --> 02:22.117\n跟委員報告就是說我們跟多邊的國家有進行合作但是合作的項目裡面要來包括說能夠補我們艦船艇數量不足的這個部分可能會比較困難我們目前合作的領域\n\n02:23.037 --> 02:42.370\n因為這個都涉及領海領階區主權這相關的考量但是我們鄰國甚至於遠自歐洲而來對於台灣海峽作為自由航行公海\n\n02:43.831 --> 02:58.699\n這樣的一個共識是有的那這個部分其實以去年來講大概有十個國家十個國家的艦船的軍艦航行經過那我現在講的主要是針對製造的量跟製造的部分我們剛剛提到船艦量比較不夠不知道海巡還有沒有這樣的構想\n\n03:10.706 --> 03:33.800\n就是合作這樣子跟摩托合作特別是我們的造船當然是以國艦國造為優先但是如果未來我們新的造艦計畫遇到說國內的製造的量能情況都已經滿載的情況那我們既然是開國際標當然也有可能譬如說我們的調查船\n\n03:34.580 --> 03:53.725\n都很有可能會是國外去標到都有可能但是海巡目前還是以國艦國造為我們的主軸我的意思是說以我們現在的狀況我們的海巡我們的要講艦隊也好我們的這樣子的能量\n\n03:55.005 --> 04:09.036\n它數量是夠還是不夠我想當然是不夠的因為面對中國這麼多就算我們國產我們全力去推動我們的產業鏈但是還是有一定的局限就是我們沒有辦法製造那麼多的產業但是如同我們剛才講的\n\n04:10.365 --> 04:25.376\n雖然說中國他建造的數量是我們的數以十倍但是如果我們納入我們同盟的朋友比方說日本比方說韓國比方說美國那我們的產量就可以倍增我的意思是說除了我們協助在維修上面也好\n\n04:25.876 --> 04:46.693\n在造船材料模具電供系統方面提供我們的能量讓我們的盟友能夠建造更多建造更快之外我們也要思考說怎麼樣在全球的產業鏈特別是跟我國比較友好的國家能夠讓他們協助我們也擴大我們的產業鏈我們講的產業鏈不是只有製造而已甚至我一直在強調就是說我們購買\n\n04:50.040 --> 05:05.658\n建造有沒有可能租用那確保說我們的這個在海巡的這些艦艇數量能夠有效的應對這是第一個部分所以我昨天在問這個顧部長我說有沒有想到要跟美方合作\n\n05:06.559 --> 05:29.086\n他說現在有一些東西沒有辦法揭露這個資訊但是他們有這樣的意向所以我在這邊是想問一下主委有沒有意向跟美方合作我們提供我們的這些技術也好共同去計畫也好共同去生產也好是不是把這個市場做大能夠增加我們在海巡在我們在海洋上面能夠面對灰色侵擾的能力\n\n05:33.087 --> 05:48.811\n如果是去租用船就涉及也是人的問題那我們每一年能夠培訓起來的人力也導致於我們造船的速度也等於影響到我們造船的速度\n\n05:49.611 --> 06:03.267\n所以在這個部分要來進行國際合作的時候又有區域穩定跟國安層級的問題那這個部分決策的層級可能就不在於我們海巡或者是海委會\n\n06:04.588 --> 06:32.175\n那也是一個涉及主權行使上面的國際合作的課題所以這個部分比較高度的複雜性我們會後有機會再跟委員多請教多探討看看委員的願景跟藍圖如果比較具體值得我們來學習研議考量的方向我們會來了解\n\n06:33.896 --> 06:34.860\n好谢谢主委谢谢\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.151,"end":0.394,"text":"主委"},{"start":10.202,"end":32.172,"text":"主委好,我看最近很多灰色輕勞,我們的海委會海巡署真的都辛苦了但是除了辛苦之外,我們還有一部分想要請教,也是跟最近美方的合作的可能性昨天我在質詢國防部部長的時候,我有提到說現在美國特別是在造船業,他們希望是復興造船業"},{"start":32.992,"end":54.285,"text":"那針對中國在海上的侵擾不管是透過他們軍事準軍事非軍事各種手段那已經是非常嚴峻的問題那在這樣嚴峻的問題下我們有沒有足夠的這個船艦來去應對我想這是一個大災問因為看起來以中國的造船數量跟他們的造船實力如同我昨天"},{"start":54.725,"end":79.374,"text":"引據CSIS的這個資訊也可以看得出來他大概是佔了全球大概53%那剩下就由韓國日本跟其他國家來去負擔這個船艦的製造那就我所知報告中有提到說我們113年完成15艘然後58艘艇要交付高緯度的這個遠洋巡護船也已經動工"},{"start":81.034,"end":94.87,"text":"但是我也觀察到海巡署我們現在轄下的船艦那1000噸以上大型船艦大概只有14艘那在2000噸到3000噸的對比中國海警的這一個擁有的艦艇大概數量是我國的10倍"},{"start":95.851,"end":118.088,"text":"也就是說在這樣的狀況之下我們要推動國建國造我們強調本土的產業鏈的建構但是同時我們也知道說在這樣的數量比例如此的不均衡的狀況之下那跟主要的盟國合作是必須且一定要盡速去做的想請教主委有沒有跟這些相關的單位來接觸過然後討論過這樣的議題"},{"start":121.096,"end":142.117,"text":"跟委員報告就是說我們跟多邊的國家有進行合作但是合作的項目裡面要來包括說能夠補我們艦船艇數量不足的這個部分可能會比較困難我們目前合作的領域"},{"start":143.037,"end":162.37,"text":"因為這個都涉及領海領階區主權這相關的考量但是我們鄰國甚至於遠自歐洲而來對於台灣海峽作為自由航行公海"},{"start":163.831,"end":178.699,"text":"這樣的一個共識是有的那這個部分其實以去年來講大概有十個國家十個國家的艦船的軍艦航行經過那我現在講的主要是針對製造的量跟製造的部分我們剛剛提到船艦量比較不夠不知道海巡還有沒有這樣的構想"},{"start":190.706,"end":213.8,"text":"就是合作這樣子跟摩托合作特別是我們的造船當然是以國艦國造為優先但是如果未來我們新的造艦計畫遇到說國內的製造的量能情況都已經滿載的情況那我們既然是開國際標當然也有可能譬如說我們的調查船"},{"start":214.58,"end":233.725,"text":"都很有可能會是國外去標到都有可能但是海巡目前還是以國艦國造為我們的主軸我的意思是說以我們現在的狀況我們的海巡我們的要講艦隊也好我們的這樣子的能量"},{"start":235.005,"end":249.036,"text":"它數量是夠還是不夠我想當然是不夠的因為面對中國這麼多就算我們國產我們全力去推動我們的產業鏈但是還是有一定的局限就是我們沒有辦法製造那麼多的產業但是如同我們剛才講的"},{"start":250.365,"end":265.376,"text":"雖然說中國他建造的數量是我們的數以十倍但是如果我們納入我們同盟的朋友比方說日本比方說韓國比方說美國那我們的產量就可以倍增我的意思是說除了我們協助在維修上面也好"},{"start":265.876,"end":286.693,"text":"在造船材料模具電供系統方面提供我們的能量讓我們的盟友能夠建造更多建造更快之外我們也要思考說怎麼樣在全球的產業鏈特別是跟我國比較友好的國家能夠讓他們協助我們也擴大我們的產業鏈我們講的產業鏈不是只有製造而已甚至我一直在強調就是說我們購買"},{"start":290.04,"end":305.658,"text":"建造有沒有可能租用那確保說我們的這個在海巡的這些艦艇數量能夠有效的應對這是第一個部分所以我昨天在問這個顧部長我說有沒有想到要跟美方合作"},{"start":306.559,"end":329.086,"text":"他說現在有一些東西沒有辦法揭露這個資訊但是他們有這樣的意向所以我在這邊是想問一下主委有沒有意向跟美方合作我們提供我們的這些技術也好共同去計畫也好共同去生產也好是不是把這個市場做大能夠增加我們在海巡在我們在海洋上面能夠面對灰色侵擾的能力"},{"start":333.087,"end":348.811,"text":"如果是去租用船就涉及也是人的問題那我們每一年能夠培訓起來的人力也導致於我們造船的速度也等於影響到我們造船的速度"},{"start":349.611,"end":363.267,"text":"所以在這個部分要來進行國際合作的時候又有區域穩定跟國安層級的問題那這個部分決策的層級可能就不在於我們海巡或者是海委會"},{"start":364.588,"end":392.175,"text":"那也是一個涉及主權行使上面的國際合作的課題所以這個部分比較高度的複雜性我們會後有機會再跟委員多請教多探討看看委員的願景跟藍圖如果比較具體值得我們來學習研議考量的方向我們會來了解"},{"start":393.896,"end":394.86,"text":"好 谢谢主委 谢谢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":793,"blocks":[["陳委員冠廷：（11時27分）你好，我們請主委。"],["主席（吳委員琪銘代）：請主委。"],["管主任委員碧玲：陳委員好。"],["陳委員冠廷：主委好。我看最近很多這種灰色侵擾，我們的海委會、海巡署都辛苦了！"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，謝謝。"],["陳委員冠廷：但是除了辛苦之外，我們還有一部分想要請教，也就是最近跟美方合作的可能性。昨天我在質詢國防部部長的時候有提到，現在美國，特別是造船業，他們希望復興造船業，針對中國在海上的侵擾，不管是透過他們軍事、準軍事、非軍事等各種手段，那已經是非常嚴峻的問題，在這樣嚴峻的問題下，我們有沒有足夠的船艦去應對？我想這是一個大哉問，因為看起來以中國的造船數量跟他們的造船實力，如同我昨天引據CSIS的資訊也可以看得出來，它占了全球大概53%，剩下就由韓國、日本跟其他國家去負擔船艦的製造。就我所知，報告中有提到，我們113年完成15艘，然後有58艘要交付的高緯度遠洋巡護船也已經動工。"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，第一艘……"],["陳委員冠廷：但是我也觀察到海巡署現在轄下的船艦，1,000噸以上的大型船艦大概只有14艘，在2,000噸到3,000噸的對比，中國海警擁有的艦艇數量大概是我國的10倍，也就是說，在這樣的狀況之下，我們要推動國艦國造，強調本土產業鏈的建構，但是同時我們也知道在這樣的數量比例如此不均衡的狀況之下，跟主要的盟國合作是必須且一定要儘速去做的。想請教主委，有沒有跟這些相關的單位接觸過、討論過這樣的議題？"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告，我們跟多邊的國家有進行合作，但是合作的項目裡面，要能夠包括來補我們艦船艇數量不足的這個部分，就我們目前合作的領域來說，可能會比較困難，因為這個都涉及領海、鄰接區及主權相關的考量。但是我們鄰國甚至遠自歐洲而來的，對於臺灣海峽作為自由航行、公海，這樣的一個共識是有的，這個部分以去年來講，大概有10個國家的艦船、軍艦航行經過……"],["陳委員冠廷：主委，我覺得這個都很好，自由航行，我現在講的主要是針對製造的量跟……"],["管主任委員碧玲：製造是不是？製造的話，造船業……"],["陳委員冠廷：製造的部分，我要提到製造量比較不夠，不知道海巡、海委會有沒有這樣的構想，跟盟國合作，特別是美國？但是合作的項目裡面，要能夠包括來補我們艦船艇數量不足的這個部分，就我們目前合作的領域來說，可能會比較困難，因為這個都涉及領海、鄰接區及主權相關的考量。但是我們鄰國甚至遠自歐洲而來的，對於臺灣海峽作為自由航行、公海，這樣的一個共識是有的，這個部分以去年來講，大概有10個國家的艦船、軍艦航行經過……"],["陳委員冠廷：主委，我覺得這個都很好，自由航行，我現在講的主要是針對製造的量跟……"],["管主任委員碧玲：製造是不是？製造的話，造船業……"],["陳委員冠廷：製造的部分，我要提到製造量比較不夠，不知道海巡、海委會有沒有這樣的構想，跟盟國合作，特別是美國？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們的造船當然是以國艦國造為優先，但是如果未來我們新的造艦計畫，遇到國內製造量能都已經滿載的情況，我們既然是開國際標，當然也有可能譬如說我們的調查船，很有可能是國外去標到，都有可能，但是海巡目前還是以國艦國造為我們的主軸。"],["陳委員冠廷：主委，我的意思是說，以我們現在的狀況，我們的海巡艦隊也好，我們這樣子的能量，數量是夠還是不夠？"],["管主任委員碧玲：都不夠。"],["陳委員冠廷：我想當然是不夠的，因為面對中國這麼多……就算我們國產全力去推動我們的產業鏈，但還是有一定的侷限，就是我們沒辦法製造那麼多的船艦。"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，需要時間。"],["陳委員冠廷：但是如同我們剛才講的，雖然中國建造的數量是我們的數以十倍，如果我們納入同盟的朋友，比方說日本、比方說韓國、比方說美國，那我們的產量就可以倍增。我的意思是說，除了我們協助在維修上面，在造船、材料、模具、電控系統方面提供我們的能量，讓我們的盟友能夠建造更多、建造更快之外，我們也要思考怎麼樣在全球的產業鏈，特別是跟我國比較友好的國家，能夠讓他們協助，我們也擴大我們的產業鏈。我們講的產業鏈不是只有製造而已，甚至我一直在強調，我們購買、建造，有沒有可能租用？確保我們海巡的這些艦艇數量能夠有效的應對，這是第一個部分。所以我昨天問顧部長有沒有想到要跟美方合作？他說現在有一些東西沒有辦法揭露這個資訊，但是他們有這樣的意向，所以我是想問一下主委，有沒有意向跟美方合作？我們提供這些技術也好，共同去計畫也好，共同去生產也好，是不是把這一個市場做大，能夠增加我們海巡在海洋上能夠面對灰色侵擾的能力？"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告，如果是去租用船，就涉及也是人的問題，我們每一年能夠培訓起來的人力，也等於影響到我們造船的速度，所以在這個部分要來進行國際合作的時候，又有區域穩定跟國安層級的問題，這個部分決策的層級可能就不在於我們海巡或者是海委會，也是一個涉及主權行使上面國際合作的課題，所以這個部分有比較高度的複雜性，我們會後有機會再跟委員多請教、多探討，看看委員的願景跟藍圖，如果比較具體，有值得我們來學習、研議、考量的方向，我們會來了解，這樣好不好？"],["陳委員冠廷：好，謝謝主委。"],["主席（張委員宏陸）：好，我們請徐富癸委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":346,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-11","speakers":["張宏陸","張智倫","蘇巧慧","王美惠","黃建賓","李柏毅","麥玉珍","黃捷","牛煦庭","許宇甄","高金素梅","徐欣瑩","陳培瑜","林倩綺","吳琪銘","陳冠廷","徐富癸","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","鍾佳濱","丁學忠"],"page_start":297,"meetingDate":["2025-04-17"],"gazette_id":"1143801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143801_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請海洋委員會主任委員率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143801_00005"}}}