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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 103.116, \"end\": 103.537, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"健\", \"start\": 103.537, \"end\": 103.757, \"score\": 0.73}, {\"word\": \"康\", \"start\": 103.757, \"end\": 104.017, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 104.017, \"end\": 104.838, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 104.838, \"end\": 105.018, \"score\": 0.644}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 105.018, \"end\": 105.238, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 105.238, \"end\": 105.378, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 105.378, \"end\": 105.578, \"score\": 0.605}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 105.578, \"end\": 105.718, \"score\": 0.612}, {\"word\": \"幼\", \"start\": 105.718, \"end\": 106.139, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"兒\"}, {\"word\": \"園\"}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 106.139, \"end\": 106.279, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 106.279, \"end\": 106.419, \"score\": 0.723}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 106.419, \"end\": 106.519, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 106.519, \"end\": 106.679, \"score\": 0.701}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 106.679, \"end\": 106.819, \"score\": 0.711}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 106.819, \"end\": 107.0, \"score\": 0.762}, {\"word\": \"校\", \"start\": 107.0, \"end\": 107.24, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 107.24, \"end\": 107.44, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 107.44, \"end\": 107.72, \"score\": 0.736}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 107.72, \"end\": 107.98, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"孩\", \"start\": 107.98, \"end\": 108.261, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 108.261, \"end\": 108.661, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 108.661, \"end\": 108.961, \"score\": 0.716}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 108.961, \"end\": 109.201, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"需\", \"start\": 109.201, \"end\": 109.381, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 109.381, \"end\": 109.922, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"乾\", \"start\": 109.922, \"end\": 110.162, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"淨\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 110.162, \"end\": 110.502, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"空\", \"start\": 110.502, \"end\": 110.522, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"氣\"}]}, {\"start\": 111.663, \"end\": 131.09, \"text\": \"品質 室內空氣品質必須要更加良好那但是現在卻因為就是可能我們在訂定相關的授權辦法的時候沒有考慮到場所的差異性那麼卻又把他們排除在外然後只鼓勵他們要去推動這種這個什麼自主標章本心認為其實這樣是不夠的是不是應該環境部要去研擬這個\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"品\", \"start\": 111.663, \"end\": 112.043, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"室\", \"start\": 112.043, \"end\": 112.323, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"空\", \"start\": 112.323, \"end\": 112.664, \"score\": 0.652}, {\"word\": \"氣\"}, {\"word\": \"品\", \"start\": 112.664, \"end\": 112.964, \"score\": 0.643}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 112.964, \"end\": 113.204, \"score\": 0.734}, {\"word\": 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報告委員現在大概有91個啦91個空民維護區不過學校真的只有只有中小學只有10個那現在呢大概有30個正在規劃當中就是說其實第一個我們優先是在工廠附近的等等的那個要先做所以這個部分是一激烈這個我要跟地方環保局一起來合作也要人力所以目前我們的確是跟有些這個所謂的風險區域的縣市環保局在討論當中\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"O\", \"start\": 267.281, \"end\": 267.761, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"K\", \"start\": 267.761, \"end\": 267.881, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 267.881, \"end\": 267.981, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 267.981, \"end\": 268.142, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 268.142, \"end\": 268.442, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 268.442, \"end\": 268.562, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 268.562, \"end\": 268.682, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 268.682, \"end\": 269.582, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 269.582, \"end\": 270.403, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": 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\"因為這個部分譬如說這個小學就在立青廠的旁邊它長期可能就在這樣的環境下所以可能更應該需要長時間的去常態性的去檢測而不適合就是說都是等待人民主動的去檢舉然後去舉報然後才來做這樣子的事情我覺得這樣的話其實環境部就還有地方環保局就不太負責任了之後我還要講一個議題就是其實在過去韓國瑜\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 472.073, \"end\": 472.133, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 472.133, \"end\": 472.153, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 472.153, \"end\": 472.173, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"譬\", \"start\": 472.173, \"end\": 472.293, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 472.293, \"end\": 472.313, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"小\", \"start\": 472.313, \"end\": 472.333, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 472.333, \"end\": 472.353, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 472.353, \"end\": 472.373, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 472.373, \"end\": 472.393, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 472.393, \"end\": 472.453, \"score\": 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475.435, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"環\"}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 475.435, \"end\": 475.675, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"局\", \"start\": 475.675, \"end\": 475.695, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 475.695, \"end\": 475.915, \"score\": 0.716}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 475.915, \"end\": 475.935, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"太\", \"start\": 475.935, \"end\": 476.095, \"score\": 0.606}, {\"word\": \"負\", \"start\": 476.095, \"end\": 476.135, \"score\": 0.265}, {\"word\": \"責\"}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 476.135, \"end\": 476.455, \"score\": 0.661}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 476.455, \"end\": 476.575, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 476.575, \"end\": 476.655, \"score\": 0.289}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 476.655, \"end\": 476.775, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 476.775, \"end\": 476.795, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 476.795, \"end\": 476.895, \"score\": 0.621}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 476.895, \"end\": 476.915, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 476.915, \"end\": 476.935, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 476.935, \"end\": 477.035, \"score\": 0.732}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 477.035, \"end\": 477.055, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 477.055, \"end\": 477.195, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 477.195, \"end\": 477.215, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"韓\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"瑜\", \"start\": 477.215, \"end\": 477.235, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 501.267, \"end\": 514.533, \"text\": \"院長擔任高雄市市長的時候曾經有提出過一個議題就是可以在校園裡面那麼設置冷氣機與空氣清淨機所謂的雙機計劃那劉建國委員之前也曾經有倡議說在雲林的麥寮國小可以安裝新風系統其實我認為這個部分其實確實是有助於可以改善室內空氣品質\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 501.267, \"end\": 501.787, \"score\": 0.548}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"擔\"}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 501.787, \"end\": 502.147, 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--> 00:01:23,120\n當時其實在推的時候因為這個是很久以前大概106的時候其實有去做溝通可是他們第一個是沒有這個預算因為做一次這個檢查大概要兩三萬塊而且他有一個專責的人員所以大部分的這種中小學他覺得他們的預算還有各方面人力不夠的確是有抗拒所以我們後來改用這個自主標章等於是稍微輕一點來鼓勵他來進行並不是強勢型的\n\n5\n00:01:25,121 --> 00:01:50,522\n我想這邊想提醒部長就是說因為其實為什麼要做公告一些公私立場所要受到更為嚴格的空氣品質的管制那麼無疑就是考量到就是國民的健康安全還有特定的族群的健康的問題那麼但是像是幼兒園高中以下的學校等等這些孩子們其實更需要乾淨的空氣\n\n6\n00:01:51,663 --> 00:02:11,090\n品質室內空氣品質必須要更加良好那但是現在卻因為就是可能我們在訂定相關的授權辦法的時候沒有考慮到場所的差異性那麼卻又把他們排除在外然後只鼓勵他們要去推動這種這個什麼自主標章本心認為其實這樣是不夠的是不是應該環境部要去研擬這個\n\n7\n00:02:16,132 --> 00:02:43,568\n各别特别的办法能够让高中以下的学校幼儿园或是财力比较不足的这样的一个场所他们也能够有一个更好的一个可以自主空气品质管理的这样的一个机制那么甚至环境部也可以去编列相关的费用去补助这些学校还有幼儿园然后让他们也能够这个有\n\n8\n00:02:44,606 --> 00:03:10,169\n他們裡面的這個空氣品質可以達到符合我們現在的要求否則的話我認為說最應該要照顧的就是小孩們就是年輕的孩子們他們的健康就反而是他們是被排除在外的但是這部分的話我希望環境部是不是可以去研擬相關的這個辦法可以因場所的差異而去制定特別的標準\n\n9\n00:03:10,489 --> 00:03:33,311\n好這個我們會努力啦因為最主要還是現在的有一些這個連續自動的監測就是他結合IOT例如說送風等等這個其實我們看到市場已經很成熟了所以我們會因為這個如果真的要檢測要花兩三萬塊然後他還要花錢去做改善其實對於很多的業者都是很大的負擔他們會很抗拒那現在有一些IOT的工具\n\n10\n00:03:34,572 --> 00:03:55,316\n政府部門可以提供相對應的補貼補助那麼來把相關的這個系統建立起來我覺得是有必要的那麼接下來呢我還要再請教的另外一個問題就是說其實現在呢在部長就是您也曾經提到為了要管制移動的污染源所以鼓勵地方的環保局要劃設國中校園旁邊有個空品的維護區那麼現在我們看到已經有六個縣市他們在\n\n11\n00:04:02,597 --> 00:04:26,405\n一些中小學旁邊有規劃空氣品質維護區不過就是我們也發現就是這些空氣品質維護區就除了花蓮的中正國小他們已經有了一個清楚什麼空氣污染物質的改善其他的學校都還沒有一個具體改善的數據或是就不知道環境部到底對於這些學校的周邊的空氣品質有必要去進行追蹤\n\n12\n00:04:27,281 --> 00:04:51,956\nOK報告委員現在大概有91個啦91個空民維護區不過學校真的只有只有中小學只有10個那現在呢大概有30個正在規劃當中就是說其實第一個我們優先是在工廠附近的等等的那個要先做所以這個部分是一激烈這個我要跟地方環保局一起來合作也要人力所以目前我們的確是跟有些這個所謂的風險區域的縣市環保局在討論當中\n\n13\n00:04:53,797 --> 00:05:08,986\n我認為說這個要積極的去做有些它已經設置都一兩年了可是我們沒有看到有任何改善的數據不要說空氣品質維護區畫在那裡只是好看的只想要符合法規上的要求但是沒有實際的作為的話就沒有意義這部分的話也請\n\n14\n00:05:09,646 --> 00:05:29,027\n部長要去盯這件事情接下來還有一個部分就是說其實我們知道有一些地方就像剛剛譬如說有些小學它就在工業區那麼現在就空氣品質監測系統所測定的項目裡面基本上好像是不涵蓋臭味對不對\n\n15\n00:05:29,926 --> 00:05:32,768\n錯位其實要每個人認知的錯不一樣所以其實錯位是蠻特別那個要有專業的人來聞臭屍來都判別的可是在你們的空氣品質的監測在測定項目裡面的話就是有關於錯位的部分\n\n16\n00:05:45,775 --> 00:06:00,720\n它是屬於得測定項目難道國外或是我們現在沒有個技術可以比較客觀的去測量有關於臭味的部分嗎因為確實我們也知道有些小學他們就在工業區旁邊尤其又在瀝青廠旁邊那聞的味道是非常不舒服的\n\n17\n00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:23,486\n這個部分的話我難道沒有辦法可以去克服這樣的一個檢測的難度嗎因為臭味是要人工有專門的蚊臭師他是很專業的在做我們的確環境部有一些配合的但是例如說我舉例臭豆腐有人說香有人說臭所以每個認定不一樣可是你看我現在的那個有關於那個瀝青製成的涵蓋的物質\n\n18\n00:06:25,660 --> 00:06:41,062\n你看這些包含什麼本啊這些其實這些都是對於人體的身體健康非常不好的一些物質對那這個部分是沒有辦法去測嗎還是現在已經有在測了嗎多環分香進化\n\n19\n00:06:42,557 --> 00:07:02,498\n核物還有什麼碗類乳碗類多環分香碳氫化合物不好意思跟你們報告因為那個會有味道的東西它成分都不一樣好像有淡的它通常有味道有硫的它通常有味道所以你就沒有無差別的方式要去測這個臭味是什麼\n\n20\n00:07:02,958 --> 00:07:26,949\n很難幾乎是不可能除非怎樣回到實驗室用那個支撲儀來跑那就會比較清楚說是哪一些成分那不然的話人的感官其實我們的鼻子的最低真正極限很零很低很低的濃度各種不同的話混在一起沒有一個簡單的儀器可以來做這個我們目前都在嘗試但沒有還沒有成分是啦我認為說這個應該在科學上面還是有\n\n21\n00:07:27,769 --> 00:07:34,316\n辦法去克服的這個技術上面或是當然像部長講的每個人的主觀的感覺是不一樣但是還是有一個一般共同的標準嗎如果說全部的士紳都已經聞到哇濃濃的這種瀝青的這個化學物質的味道不能講說這個覺得說啊這個是他們的這個嗅覺太靈敏了所以把忽略委員這個只要有個案來申報通知我們都會有專業團隊去協助檢測\n\n22\n00:07:52,073 --> 00:07:57,235\n因為這個部分譬如說這個小學就在立青廠的旁邊它長期可能就在這樣的環境下所以可能更應該需要長時間的去常態性的去檢測而不適合就是說都是等待人民主動的去檢舉然後去舉報然後才來做這樣子的事情我覺得這樣的話其實環境部就還有地方環保局就不太負責任了之後我還要講一個議題就是其實在過去韓國瑜\n\n23\n00:08:21,267 --> 00:08:34,533\n院長擔任高雄市市長的時候曾經有提出過一個議題就是可以在校園裡面那麼設置冷氣機與空氣清淨機所謂的雙機計劃那劉建國委員之前也曾經有倡議說在雲林的麥寮國小可以安裝新風系統其實我認為這個部分其實確實是有助於可以改善室內空氣品質\n\n24\n00:08:46,158 --> 00:09:06,701\n那不知道環境部對於這個部分有沒有什麼看法未來有沒有可能提撥相關的補助費用補助這些至少在工業區旁的小學們可以優先的去申請改善空氣品質的設備報委員那個新風系統是劉委員為了左水溪陽城特別去爭取的這個是教育部在做補助\n\n25\n00:09:07,382 --> 00:09:28,053\n那這個剛剛有報告說他未來是不是要再檢討那另外一個呢是韓市長的這個那時候韓院長的時候推動的是冷氣機現在中小學都有了但是空氣清淨機呢還是要看需求啦不限的每個學校都是在供氣污染區但是如果有的話就跟這個興奉系統有一點類似是那我們會再來研議可以就是綜合性的去\n\n26\n00:09:29,393 --> 00:09:50,720\n盤點到底哪些學校它是有急迫性的必要就像我們剛剛講的這工業區旁的小學其實看起來也不是太多頂多大概幾時間吧可以優先從那些學校來進行改善總之就是說現在因為我們少子化所以每個孩子都是我們的寶貝我們都希望他們的身體健康能夠得到最好的照顧那政府該花的錢還是要花\n\n27\n00:09:52,702 --> 00:09:57,676\n該補助的還是要補助這邊希望部長這邊可以特別關注這件事情\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7912\t9798\t好 有請部長 彭部長\n14139\t42065\t是部長好我其實看了今天部長這邊所提的報告我尤其關心的是有關於就是在已經被公告的要嚴格控管的這空氣品質的場所的這個議題那麼我們知道其實依照室內空氣品質管制法第6條的規定現在是主管機關他可以綜合各種考量的因素來公告要受到更嚴格的空氣品質\n43206\t59147\t標準的這樣的公私立場所可是呢在我們研究發現裡面呢有看到就是似乎高中以下的學校包含幼兒園啊等等的這個是排除在外就是還沒有在你們公告的這個場所裡面不知道原因是什麼\n60284\t83120\t當時其實在推的時候因為這個是很久以前大概106的時候其實有去做溝通可是他們第一個是沒有這個預算因為做一次這個檢查大概要兩三萬塊而且他有一個專責的人員所以大部分的這種中小學他覺得他們的預算還有各方面人力不夠的確是有抗拒所以我們後來改用這個自主標章等於是稍微輕一點來鼓勵他來進行並不是強勢型的\n85121\t110522\t我想這邊想提醒部長就是說因為其實為什麼要做公告一些公私立場所要受到更為嚴格的空氣品質的管制那麼無疑就是考量到就是國民的健康安全還有特定的族群的健康的問題那麼但是像是幼兒園高中以下的學校等等這些孩子們其實更需要乾淨的空氣\n111663\t131090\t品質 室內空氣品質必須要更加良好那但是現在卻因為就是可能我們在訂定相關的授權辦法的時候沒有考慮到場所的差異性那麼卻又把他們排除在外然後只鼓勵他們要去推動這種這個什麼自主標章本心認為其實這樣是不夠的是不是應該環境部要去研擬這個\n136132\t163568\t各别特别的办法能够让高中以下的学校幼儿园或是财力比较不足的这样的一个场所他们也能够有一个更好的一个可以自主空气品质管理的这样的一个机制那么甚至环境部也可以去编列相关的费用去补助这些学校还有幼儿园然后让他们也能够这个有\n164606\t190169\t他們裡面的這個空氣品質可以達到符合我們現在的要求否則的話我認為說最應該要照顧的就是小孩們就是年輕的孩子們他們的健康就反而是他們是被排除在外的但是這部分的話我希望環境部是不是可以去研擬相關的這個辦法可以因場所的差異而去制定特別的標準\n190489\t213311\t好這個我們會努力啦因為最主要還是現在的有一些這個連續自動的監測就是他結合IOT例如說送風等等這個其實我們看到市場已經很成熟了所以我們會因為這個如果真的要檢測要花兩三萬塊然後他還要花錢去做改善其實對於很多的業者都是很大的負擔他們會很抗拒那現在有一些IOT的工具\n214572\t235316\t政府部門可以提供相對應的補貼補助那麼來把相關的這個系統建立起來我覺得是有必要的那麼接下來呢我還要再請教的另外一個問題就是說其實現在呢在部長就是您也曾經提到為了要管制移動的污染源所以鼓勵地方的環保局要劃設國中校園旁邊有個空品的維護區那麼現在我們看到已經有六個縣市他們在\n242597\t266405\t一些中小學旁邊有規劃空氣品質維護區不過就是我們也發現就是這些空氣品質維護區就除了花蓮的中正國小他們已經有了一個清楚什麼空氣污染物質的改善其他的學校都還沒有一個具體改善的數據或是就不知道環境部到底對於這些學校的周邊的空氣品質有必要去進行追蹤\n267281\t291956\tOK 報告委員現在大概有91個啦91個空民維護區不過學校真的只有只有中小學只有10個那現在呢大概有30個正在規劃當中就是說其實第一個我們優先是在工廠附近的等等的那個要先做所以這個部分是一激烈這個我要跟地方環保局一起來合作也要人力所以目前我們的確是跟有些這個所謂的風險區域的縣市環保局在討論當中\n293797\t308986\t我認為說這個要積極的去做有些它已經設置都一兩年了可是我們沒有看到有任何改善的數據不要說空氣品質維護區畫在那裡只是好看的只想要符合法規上的要求但是沒有實際的作為的話就沒有意義這部分的話也請\n309646\t329027\t部長要去盯這件事情接下來還有一個部分就是說其實我們知道有一些地方就像剛剛譬如說有些小學它就在工業區那麼現在就空氣品質監測系統所測定的項目裡面基本上好像是不涵蓋臭味對不對\n329926\t332768\t錯位其實要每個人認知的錯不一樣所以其實錯位是蠻特別那個要有專業的人來聞臭屍來都判別的可是在你們的空氣品質的監測在測定項目裡面的話就是有關於錯位的部分\n345775\t360720\t它是屬於得測定項目難道國外或是我們現在沒有個技術可以比較客觀的去測量有關於臭味的部分嗎因為確實我們也知道有些小學他們就在工業區旁邊尤其又在瀝青廠旁邊那聞的味道是非常不舒服的\n361600\t383486\t這個部分的話我難道沒有辦法可以去克服這樣的一個檢測的難度嗎因為臭味是要人工有專門的蚊臭師他是很專業的在做我們的確環境部有一些配合的但是例如說我舉例臭豆腐有人說香有人說臭所以每個認定不一樣可是你看我現在的那個有關於那個瀝青製成的涵蓋的物質\n385660\t401062\t你看這些包含什麼本啊這些其實這些都是對於人體的身體健康非常不好的一些物質對那這個部分是沒有辦法去測嗎還是現在已經有在測了嗎多環分香進化\n402557\t422498\t核物還有什麼碗類乳碗類多環分香碳氫化合物不好意思跟你們報告因為那個會有味道的東西它成分都不一樣好像有淡的它通常有味道有硫的它通常有味道所以你就沒有無差別的方式要去測這個臭味是什麼\n422958\t446949\t很難 幾乎是不可能除非怎樣回到實驗室用那個支撲儀來跑那就會比較清楚說是哪一些成分那不然的話人的感官其實我們的鼻子的最低真正極限很零很低 很低的濃度各種不同的話混在一起沒有一個簡單的儀器可以來做這個我們目前都在嘗試但沒有還沒有成分是啦 我認為說這個應該在科學上面還是有\n447769\t454316\t辦法去克服的這個技術上面或是當然像部長講的每個人的主觀的感覺是不一樣但是還是有一個一般共同的標準嗎如果說全部的士紳都已經聞到哇濃濃的這種瀝青的這個化學物質的味道不能講說這個覺得說啊這個是他們的這個嗅覺太靈敏了所以把忽略委員這個只要有個案來申報通知我們都會有專業團隊去協助檢測\n472073\t477235\t因為這個部分譬如說這個小學就在立青廠的旁邊它長期可能就在這樣的環境下所以可能更應該需要長時間的去常態性的去檢測而不適合就是說都是等待人民主動的去檢舉然後去舉報然後才來做這樣子的事情我覺得這樣的話其實環境部就還有地方環保局就不太負責任了之後我還要講一個議題就是其實在過去韓國瑜\n501267\t514533\t院長擔任高雄市市長的時候曾經有提出過一個議題就是可以在校園裡面那麼設置冷氣機與空氣清淨機所謂的雙機計劃那劉建國委員之前也曾經有倡議說在雲林的麥寮國小可以安裝新風系統其實我認為這個部分其實確實是有助於可以改善室內空氣品質\n526158\t546701\t那不知道環境部對於這個部分有沒有什麼看法未來有沒有可能提撥相關的補助費用補助這些至少在工業區旁的小學們可以優先的去申請改善空氣品質的設備報委員那個新風系統是劉委員為了左水溪陽城特別去爭取的這個是教育部在做補助\n547382\t568053\t那這個剛剛有報告說他未來是不是要再檢討那另外一個呢是韓市長的這個那時候韓院長的時候推動的是冷氣機現在中小學都有了但是空氣清淨機呢還是要看需求啦不限的每個學校都是在供氣污染區但是如果有的話就跟這個興奉系統有一點類似是那我們會再來研議可以就是綜合性的去\n569393\t590720\t盤點到底哪些學校它是有急迫性的必要就像我們剛剛講的這工業區旁的小學其實看起來也不是太多頂多大概幾時間吧可以優先從那些學校來進行改善總之就是說現在因為我們少子化所以每個孩子都是我們的寶貝我們都希望他們的身體健康能夠得到最好的照顧那政府該花的錢還是要花\n592702\t597676\t該補助的還是要補助 這邊希望部長這邊可以特別關注這件事情\n","txt":"好 有請部長 彭部長\n是部長好我其實看了今天部長這邊所提的報告我尤其關心的是有關於就是在已經被公告的要嚴格控管的這空氣品質的場所的這個議題那麼我們知道其實依照室內空氣品質管制法第6條的規定現在是主管機關他可以綜合各種考量的因素來公告要受到更嚴格的空氣品質\n標準的這樣的公私立場所可是呢在我們研究發現裡面呢有看到就是似乎高中以下的學校包含幼兒園啊等等的這個是排除在外就是還沒有在你們公告的這個場所裡面不知道原因是什麼\n當時其實在推的時候因為這個是很久以前大概106的時候其實有去做溝通可是他們第一個是沒有這個預算因為做一次這個檢查大概要兩三萬塊而且他有一個專責的人員所以大部分的這種中小學他覺得他們的預算還有各方面人力不夠的確是有抗拒所以我們後來改用這個自主標章等於是稍微輕一點來鼓勵他來進行並不是強勢型的\n我想這邊想提醒部長就是說因為其實為什麼要做公告一些公私立場所要受到更為嚴格的空氣品質的管制那麼無疑就是考量到就是國民的健康安全還有特定的族群的健康的問題那麼但是像是幼兒園高中以下的學校等等這些孩子們其實更需要乾淨的空氣\n品質 室內空氣品質必須要更加良好那但是現在卻因為就是可能我們在訂定相關的授權辦法的時候沒有考慮到場所的差異性那麼卻又把他們排除在外然後只鼓勵他們要去推動這種這個什麼自主標章本心認為其實這樣是不夠的是不是應該環境部要去研擬這個\n各别特别的办法能够让高中以下的学校幼儿园或是财力比较不足的这样的一个场所他们也能够有一个更好的一个可以自主空气品质管理的这样的一个机制那么甚至环境部也可以去编列相关的费用去补助这些学校还有幼儿园然后让他们也能够这个有\n他們裡面的這個空氣品質可以達到符合我們現在的要求否則的話我認為說最應該要照顧的就是小孩們就是年輕的孩子們他們的健康就反而是他們是被排除在外的但是這部分的話我希望環境部是不是可以去研擬相關的這個辦法可以因場所的差異而去制定特別的標準\n好這個我們會努力啦因為最主要還是現在的有一些這個連續自動的監測就是他結合IOT例如說送風等等這個其實我們看到市場已經很成熟了所以我們會因為這個如果真的要檢測要花兩三萬塊然後他還要花錢去做改善其實對於很多的業者都是很大的負擔他們會很抗拒那現在有一些IOT的工具\n政府部門可以提供相對應的補貼補助那麼來把相關的這個系統建立起來我覺得是有必要的那麼接下來呢我還要再請教的另外一個問題就是說其實現在呢在部長就是您也曾經提到為了要管制移動的污染源所以鼓勵地方的環保局要劃設國中校園旁邊有個空品的維護區那麼現在我們看到已經有六個縣市他們在\n一些中小學旁邊有規劃空氣品質維護區不過就是我們也發現就是這些空氣品質維護區就除了花蓮的中正國小他們已經有了一個清楚什麼空氣污染物質的改善其他的學校都還沒有一個具體改善的數據或是就不知道環境部到底對於這些學校的周邊的空氣品質有必要去進行追蹤\nOK 報告委員現在大概有91個啦91個空民維護區不過學校真的只有只有中小學只有10個那現在呢大概有30個正在規劃當中就是說其實第一個我們優先是在工廠附近的等等的那個要先做所以這個部分是一激烈這個我要跟地方環保局一起來合作也要人力所以目前我們的確是跟有些這個所謂的風險區域的縣市環保局在討論當中\n我認為說這個要積極的去做有些它已經設置都一兩年了可是我們沒有看到有任何改善的數據不要說空氣品質維護區畫在那裡只是好看的只想要符合法規上的要求但是沒有實際的作為的話就沒有意義這部分的話也請\n部長要去盯這件事情接下來還有一個部分就是說其實我們知道有一些地方就像剛剛譬如說有些小學它就在工業區那麼現在就空氣品質監測系統所測定的項目裡面基本上好像是不涵蓋臭味對不對\n錯位其實要每個人認知的錯不一樣所以其實錯位是蠻特別那個要有專業的人來聞臭屍來都判別的可是在你們的空氣品質的監測在測定項目裡面的話就是有關於錯位的部分\n它是屬於得測定項目難道國外或是我們現在沒有個技術可以比較客觀的去測量有關於臭味的部分嗎因為確實我們也知道有些小學他們就在工業區旁邊尤其又在瀝青廠旁邊那聞的味道是非常不舒服的\n這個部分的話我難道沒有辦法可以去克服這樣的一個檢測的難度嗎因為臭味是要人工有專門的蚊臭師他是很專業的在做我們的確環境部有一些配合的但是例如說我舉例臭豆腐有人說香有人說臭所以每個認定不一樣可是你看我現在的那個有關於那個瀝青製成的涵蓋的物質\n你看這些包含什麼本啊這些其實這些都是對於人體的身體健康非常不好的一些物質對那這個部分是沒有辦法去測嗎還是現在已經有在測了嗎多環分香進化\n核物還有什麼碗類乳碗類多環分香碳氫化合物不好意思跟你們報告因為那個會有味道的東西它成分都不一樣好像有淡的它通常有味道有硫的它通常有味道所以你就沒有無差別的方式要去測這個臭味是什麼\n很難 幾乎是不可能除非怎樣回到實驗室用那個支撲儀來跑那就會比較清楚說是哪一些成分那不然的話人的感官其實我們的鼻子的最低真正極限很零很低 很低的濃度各種不同的話混在一起沒有一個簡單的儀器可以來做這個我們目前都在嘗試但沒有還沒有成分是啦 我認為說這個應該在科學上面還是有\n辦法去克服的這個技術上面或是當然像部長講的每個人的主觀的感覺是不一樣但是還是有一個一般共同的標準嗎如果說全部的士紳都已經聞到哇濃濃的這種瀝青的這個化學物質的味道不能講說這個覺得說啊這個是他們的這個嗅覺太靈敏了所以把忽略委員這個只要有個案來申報通知我們都會有專業團隊去協助檢測\n因為這個部分譬如說這個小學就在立青廠的旁邊它長期可能就在這樣的環境下所以可能更應該需要長時間的去常態性的去檢測而不適合就是說都是等待人民主動的去檢舉然後去舉報然後才來做這樣子的事情我覺得這樣的話其實環境部就還有地方環保局就不太負責任了之後我還要講一個議題就是其實在過去韓國瑜\n院長擔任高雄市市長的時候曾經有提出過一個議題就是可以在校園裡面那麼設置冷氣機與空氣清淨機所謂的雙機計劃那劉建國委員之前也曾經有倡議說在雲林的麥寮國小可以安裝新風系統其實我認為這個部分其實確實是有助於可以改善室內空氣品質\n那不知道環境部對於這個部分有沒有什麼看法未來有沒有可能提撥相關的補助費用補助這些至少在工業區旁的小學們可以優先的去申請改善空氣品質的設備報委員那個新風系統是劉委員為了左水溪陽城特別去爭取的這個是教育部在做補助\n那這個剛剛有報告說他未來是不是要再檢討那另外一個呢是韓市長的這個那時候韓院長的時候推動的是冷氣機現在中小學都有了但是空氣清淨機呢還是要看需求啦不限的每個學校都是在供氣污染區但是如果有的話就跟這個興奉系統有一點類似是那我們會再來研議可以就是綜合性的去\n盤點到底哪些學校它是有急迫性的必要就像我們剛剛講的這工業區旁的小學其實看起來也不是太多頂多大概幾時間吧可以優先從那些學校來進行改善總之就是說現在因為我們少子化所以每個孩子都是我們的寶貝我們都希望他們的身體健康能夠得到最好的照顧那政府該花的錢還是要花\n該補助的還是要補助 這邊希望部長這邊可以特別關注這件事情\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.912 --> 00:09.798\n好有請部長彭部長\n\n00:14.139 --> 00:42.065\n是部長好我其實看了今天部長這邊所提的報告我尤其關心的是有關於就是在已經被公告的要嚴格控管的這空氣品質的場所的這個議題那麼我們知道其實依照室內空氣品質管制法第6條的規定現在是主管機關他可以綜合各種考量的因素來公告要受到更嚴格的空氣品質\n\n00:43.206 --> 00:59.147\n標準的這樣的公私立場所可是呢在我們研究發現裡面呢有看到就是似乎高中以下的學校包含幼兒園啊等等的這個是排除在外就是還沒有在你們公告的這個場所裡面不知道原因是什麼\n\n01:00.284 --> 01:23.120\n當時其實在推的時候因為這個是很久以前大概106的時候其實有去做溝通可是他們第一個是沒有這個預算因為做一次這個檢查大概要兩三萬塊而且他有一個專責的人員所以大部分的這種中小學他覺得他們的預算還有各方面人力不夠的確是有抗拒所以我們後來改用這個自主標章等於是稍微輕一點來鼓勵他來進行並不是強勢型的\n\n01:25.121 --> 01:50.522\n我想這邊想提醒部長就是說因為其實為什麼要做公告一些公私立場所要受到更為嚴格的空氣品質的管制那麼無疑就是考量到就是國民的健康安全還有特定的族群的健康的問題那麼但是像是幼兒園高中以下的學校等等這些孩子們其實更需要乾淨的空氣\n\n01:51.663 --> 02:11.090\n品質室內空氣品質必須要更加良好那但是現在卻因為就是可能我們在訂定相關的授權辦法的時候沒有考慮到場所的差異性那麼卻又把他們排除在外然後只鼓勵他們要去推動這種這個什麼自主標章本心認為其實這樣是不夠的是不是應該環境部要去研擬這個\n\n02:16.132 --> 02:43.568\n各别特别的办法能够让高中以下的学校幼儿园或是财力比较不足的这样的一个场所他们也能够有一个更好的一个可以自主空气品质管理的这样的一个机制那么甚至环境部也可以去编列相关的费用去补助这些学校还有幼儿园然后让他们也能够这个有\n\n02:44.606 --> 03:10.169\n他們裡面的這個空氣品質可以達到符合我們現在的要求否則的話我認為說最應該要照顧的就是小孩們就是年輕的孩子們他們的健康就反而是他們是被排除在外的但是這部分的話我希望環境部是不是可以去研擬相關的這個辦法可以因場所的差異而去制定特別的標準\n\n03:10.489 --> 03:33.311\n好這個我們會努力啦因為最主要還是現在的有一些這個連續自動的監測就是他結合IOT例如說送風等等這個其實我們看到市場已經很成熟了所以我們會因為這個如果真的要檢測要花兩三萬塊然後他還要花錢去做改善其實對於很多的業者都是很大的負擔他們會很抗拒那現在有一些IOT的工具\n\n03:34.572 --> 03:55.316\n政府部門可以提供相對應的補貼補助那麼來把相關的這個系統建立起來我覺得是有必要的那麼接下來呢我還要再請教的另外一個問題就是說其實現在呢在部長就是您也曾經提到為了要管制移動的污染源所以鼓勵地方的環保局要劃設國中校園旁邊有個空品的維護區那麼現在我們看到已經有六個縣市他們在\n\n04:02.597 --> 04:26.405\n一些中小學旁邊有規劃空氣品質維護區不過就是我們也發現就是這些空氣品質維護區就除了花蓮的中正國小他們已經有了一個清楚什麼空氣污染物質的改善其他的學校都還沒有一個具體改善的數據或是就不知道環境部到底對於這些學校的周邊的空氣品質有必要去進行追蹤\n\n04:27.281 --> 04:51.956\nOK報告委員現在大概有91個啦91個空民維護區不過學校真的只有只有中小學只有10個那現在呢大概有30個正在規劃當中就是說其實第一個我們優先是在工廠附近的等等的那個要先做所以這個部分是一激烈這個我要跟地方環保局一起來合作也要人力所以目前我們的確是跟有些這個所謂的風險區域的縣市環保局在討論當中\n\n04:53.797 --> 05:08.986\n我認為說這個要積極的去做有些它已經設置都一兩年了可是我們沒有看到有任何改善的數據不要說空氣品質維護區畫在那裡只是好看的只想要符合法規上的要求但是沒有實際的作為的話就沒有意義這部分的話也請\n\n05:09.646 --> 05:29.027\n部長要去盯這件事情接下來還有一個部分就是說其實我們知道有一些地方就像剛剛譬如說有些小學它就在工業區那麼現在就空氣品質監測系統所測定的項目裡面基本上好像是不涵蓋臭味對不對\n\n05:29.926 --> 05:32.768\n錯位其實要每個人認知的錯不一樣所以其實錯位是蠻特別那個要有專業的人來聞臭屍來都判別的可是在你們的空氣品質的監測在測定項目裡面的話就是有關於錯位的部分\n\n05:45.775 --> 06:00.720\n它是屬於得測定項目難道國外或是我們現在沒有個技術可以比較客觀的去測量有關於臭味的部分嗎因為確實我們也知道有些小學他們就在工業區旁邊尤其又在瀝青廠旁邊那聞的味道是非常不舒服的\n\n06:01.600 --> 06:23.486\n這個部分的話我難道沒有辦法可以去克服這樣的一個檢測的難度嗎因為臭味是要人工有專門的蚊臭師他是很專業的在做我們的確環境部有一些配合的但是例如說我舉例臭豆腐有人說香有人說臭所以每個認定不一樣可是你看我現在的那個有關於那個瀝青製成的涵蓋的物質\n\n06:25.660 --> 06:41.062\n你看這些包含什麼本啊這些其實這些都是對於人體的身體健康非常不好的一些物質對那這個部分是沒有辦法去測嗎還是現在已經有在測了嗎多環分香進化\n\n06:42.557 --> 07:02.498\n核物還有什麼碗類乳碗類多環分香碳氫化合物不好意思跟你們報告因為那個會有味道的東西它成分都不一樣好像有淡的它通常有味道有硫的它通常有味道所以你就沒有無差別的方式要去測這個臭味是什麼\n\n07:02.958 --> 07:26.949\n很難幾乎是不可能除非怎樣回到實驗室用那個支撲儀來跑那就會比較清楚說是哪一些成分那不然的話人的感官其實我們的鼻子的最低真正極限很零很低很低的濃度各種不同的話混在一起沒有一個簡單的儀器可以來做這個我們目前都在嘗試但沒有還沒有成分是啦我認為說這個應該在科學上面還是有\n\n07:27.769 --> 07:34.316\n辦法去克服的這個技術上面或是當然像部長講的每個人的主觀的感覺是不一樣但是還是有一個一般共同的標準嗎如果說全部的士紳都已經聞到哇濃濃的這種瀝青的這個化學物質的味道不能講說這個覺得說啊這個是他們的這個嗅覺太靈敏了所以把忽略委員這個只要有個案來申報通知我們都會有專業團隊去協助檢測\n\n07:52.073 --> 07:57.235\n因為這個部分譬如說這個小學就在立青廠的旁邊它長期可能就在這樣的環境下所以可能更應該需要長時間的去常態性的去檢測而不適合就是說都是等待人民主動的去檢舉然後去舉報然後才來做這樣子的事情我覺得這樣的話其實環境部就還有地方環保局就不太負責任了之後我還要講一個議題就是其實在過去韓國瑜\n\n08:21.267 --> 08:34.533\n院長擔任高雄市市長的時候曾經有提出過一個議題就是可以在校園裡面那麼設置冷氣機與空氣清淨機所謂的雙機計劃那劉建國委員之前也曾經有倡議說在雲林的麥寮國小可以安裝新風系統其實我認為這個部分其實確實是有助於可以改善室內空氣品質\n\n08:46.158 --> 09:06.701\n那不知道環境部對於這個部分有沒有什麼看法未來有沒有可能提撥相關的補助費用補助這些至少在工業區旁的小學們可以優先的去申請改善空氣品質的設備報委員那個新風系統是劉委員為了左水溪陽城特別去爭取的這個是教育部在做補助\n\n09:07.382 --> 09:28.053\n那這個剛剛有報告說他未來是不是要再檢討那另外一個呢是韓市長的這個那時候韓院長的時候推動的是冷氣機現在中小學都有了但是空氣清淨機呢還是要看需求啦不限的每個學校都是在供氣污染區但是如果有的話就跟這個興奉系統有一點類似是那我們會再來研議可以就是綜合性的去\n\n09:29.393 --> 09:50.720\n盤點到底哪些學校它是有急迫性的必要就像我們剛剛講的這工業區旁的小學其實看起來也不是太多頂多大概幾時間吧可以優先從那些學校來進行改善總之就是說現在因為我們少子化所以每個孩子都是我們的寶貝我們都希望他們的身體健康能夠得到最好的照顧那政府該花的錢還是要花\n\n09:52.702 --> 09:57.676\n該補助的還是要補助這邊希望部長這邊可以特別關注這件事情\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.912,"end":9.798,"text":"好 有請部長 彭部長"},{"start":14.139,"end":42.065,"text":"是部長好我其實看了今天部長這邊所提的報告我尤其關心的是有關於就是在已經被公告的要嚴格控管的這空氣品質的場所的這個議題那麼我們知道其實依照室內空氣品質管制法第6條的規定現在是主管機關他可以綜合各種考量的因素來公告要受到更嚴格的空氣品質"},{"start":43.206,"end":59.147,"text":"標準的這樣的公私立場所可是呢在我們研究發現裡面呢有看到就是似乎高中以下的學校包含幼兒園啊等等的這個是排除在外就是還沒有在你們公告的這個場所裡面不知道原因是什麼"},{"start":60.284,"end":83.12,"text":"當時其實在推的時候因為這個是很久以前大概106的時候其實有去做溝通可是他們第一個是沒有這個預算因為做一次這個檢查大概要兩三萬塊而且他有一個專責的人員所以大部分的這種中小學他覺得他們的預算還有各方面人力不夠的確是有抗拒所以我們後來改用這個自主標章等於是稍微輕一點來鼓勵他來進行並不是強勢型的"},{"start":85.121,"end":110.522,"text":"我想這邊想提醒部長就是說因為其實為什麼要做公告一些公私立場所要受到更為嚴格的空氣品質的管制那麼無疑就是考量到就是國民的健康安全還有特定的族群的健康的問題那麼但是像是幼兒園高中以下的學校等等這些孩子們其實更需要乾淨的空氣"},{"start":111.663,"end":131.09,"text":"品質 室內空氣品質必須要更加良好那但是現在卻因為就是可能我們在訂定相關的授權辦法的時候沒有考慮到場所的差異性那麼卻又把他們排除在外然後只鼓勵他們要去推動這種這個什麼自主標章本心認為其實這樣是不夠的是不是應該環境部要去研擬這個"},{"start":136.132,"end":163.568,"text":"各别特别的办法能够让高中以下的学校幼儿园或是财力比较不足的这样的一个场所他们也能够有一个更好的一个可以自主空气品质管理的这样的一个机制那么甚至环境部也可以去编列相关的费用去补助这些学校还有幼儿园然后让他们也能够这个有"},{"start":164.606,"end":190.169,"text":"他們裡面的這個空氣品質可以達到符合我們現在的要求否則的話我認為說最應該要照顧的就是小孩們就是年輕的孩子們他們的健康就反而是他們是被排除在外的但是這部分的話我希望環境部是不是可以去研擬相關的這個辦法可以因場所的差異而去制定特別的標準"},{"start":190.489,"end":213.311,"text":"好這個我們會努力啦因為最主要還是現在的有一些這個連續自動的監測就是他結合IOT例如說送風等等這個其實我們看到市場已經很成熟了所以我們會因為這個如果真的要檢測要花兩三萬塊然後他還要花錢去做改善其實對於很多的業者都是很大的負擔他們會很抗拒那現在有一些IOT的工具"},{"start":214.572,"end":235.316,"text":"政府部門可以提供相對應的補貼補助那麼來把相關的這個系統建立起來我覺得是有必要的那麼接下來呢我還要再請教的另外一個問題就是說其實現在呢在部長就是您也曾經提到為了要管制移動的污染源所以鼓勵地方的環保局要劃設國中校園旁邊有個空品的維護區那麼現在我們看到已經有六個縣市他們在"},{"start":242.597,"end":266.405,"text":"一些中小學旁邊有規劃空氣品質維護區不過就是我們也發現就是這些空氣品質維護區就除了花蓮的中正國小他們已經有了一個清楚什麼空氣污染物質的改善其他的學校都還沒有一個具體改善的數據或是就不知道環境部到底對於這些學校的周邊的空氣品質有必要去進行追蹤"},{"start":267.281,"end":291.956,"text":"OK 報告委員現在大概有91個啦91個空民維護區不過學校真的只有只有中小學只有10個那現在呢大概有30個正在規劃當中就是說其實第一個我們優先是在工廠附近的等等的那個要先做所以這個部分是一激烈這個我要跟地方環保局一起來合作也要人力所以目前我們的確是跟有些這個所謂的風險區域的縣市環保局在討論當中"},{"start":293.797,"end":308.986,"text":"我認為說這個要積極的去做有些它已經設置都一兩年了可是我們沒有看到有任何改善的數據不要說空氣品質維護區畫在那裡只是好看的只想要符合法規上的要求但是沒有實際的作為的話就沒有意義這部分的話也請"},{"start":309.646,"end":329.027,"text":"部長要去盯這件事情接下來還有一個部分就是說其實我們知道有一些地方就像剛剛譬如說有些小學它就在工業區那麼現在就空氣品質監測系統所測定的項目裡面基本上好像是不涵蓋臭味對不對"},{"start":329.926,"end":332.768,"text":"錯位其實要每個人認知的錯不一樣所以其實錯位是蠻特別那個要有專業的人來聞臭屍來都判別的可是在你們的空氣品質的監測在測定項目裡面的話就是有關於錯位的部分"},{"start":345.775,"end":360.72,"text":"它是屬於得測定項目難道國外或是我們現在沒有個技術可以比較客觀的去測量有關於臭味的部分嗎因為確實我們也知道有些小學他們就在工業區旁邊尤其又在瀝青廠旁邊那聞的味道是非常不舒服的"},{"start":361.6,"end":383.486,"text":"這個部分的話我難道沒有辦法可以去克服這樣的一個檢測的難度嗎因為臭味是要人工有專門的蚊臭師他是很專業的在做我們的確環境部有一些配合的但是例如說我舉例臭豆腐有人說香有人說臭所以每個認定不一樣可是你看我現在的那個有關於那個瀝青製成的涵蓋的物質"},{"start":385.66,"end":401.062,"text":"你看這些包含什麼本啊這些其實這些都是對於人體的身體健康非常不好的一些物質對那這個部分是沒有辦法去測嗎還是現在已經有在測了嗎多環分香進化"},{"start":402.557,"end":422.498,"text":"核物還有什麼碗類乳碗類多環分香碳氫化合物不好意思跟你們報告因為那個會有味道的東西它成分都不一樣好像有淡的它通常有味道有硫的它通常有味道所以你就沒有無差別的方式要去測這個臭味是什麼"},{"start":422.958,"end":446.949,"text":"很難 幾乎是不可能除非怎樣回到實驗室用那個支撲儀來跑那就會比較清楚說是哪一些成分那不然的話人的感官其實我們的鼻子的最低真正極限很零很低 很低的濃度各種不同的話混在一起沒有一個簡單的儀器可以來做這個我們目前都在嘗試但沒有還沒有成分是啦 我認為說這個應該在科學上面還是有"},{"start":447.769,"end":454.316,"text":"辦法去克服的這個技術上面或是當然像部長講的每個人的主觀的感覺是不一樣但是還是有一個一般共同的標準嗎如果說全部的士紳都已經聞到哇濃濃的這種瀝青的這個化學物質的味道不能講說這個覺得說啊這個是他們的這個嗅覺太靈敏了所以把忽略委員這個只要有個案來申報通知我們都會有專業團隊去協助檢測"},{"start":472.073,"end":477.235,"text":"因為這個部分譬如說這個小學就在立青廠的旁邊它長期可能就在這樣的環境下所以可能更應該需要長時間的去常態性的去檢測而不適合就是說都是等待人民主動的去檢舉然後去舉報然後才來做這樣子的事情我覺得這樣的話其實環境部就還有地方環保局就不太負責任了之後我還要講一個議題就是其實在過去韓國瑜"},{"start":501.267,"end":514.533,"text":"院長擔任高雄市市長的時候曾經有提出過一個議題就是可以在校園裡面那麼設置冷氣機與空氣清淨機所謂的雙機計劃那劉建國委員之前也曾經有倡議說在雲林的麥寮國小可以安裝新風系統其實我認為這個部分其實確實是有助於可以改善室內空氣品質"},{"start":526.158,"end":546.701,"text":"那不知道環境部對於這個部分有沒有什麼看法未來有沒有可能提撥相關的補助費用補助這些至少在工業區旁的小學們可以優先的去申請改善空氣品質的設備報委員那個新風系統是劉委員為了左水溪陽城特別去爭取的這個是教育部在做補助"},{"start":547.382,"end":568.053,"text":"那這個剛剛有報告說他未來是不是要再檢討那另外一個呢是韓市長的這個那時候韓院長的時候推動的是冷氣機現在中小學都有了但是空氣清淨機呢還是要看需求啦不限的每個學校都是在供氣污染區但是如果有的話就跟這個興奉系統有一點類似是那我們會再來研議可以就是綜合性的去"},{"start":569.393,"end":590.72,"text":"盤點到底哪些學校它是有急迫性的必要就像我們剛剛講的這工業區旁的小學其實看起來也不是太多頂多大概幾時間吧可以優先從那些學校來進行改善總之就是說現在因為我們少子化所以每個孩子都是我們的寶貝我們都希望他們的身體健康能夠得到最好的照顧那政府該花的錢還是要花"},{"start":592.702,"end":597.676,"text":"該補助的還是要補助 這邊希望部長這邊可以特別關注這件事情"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":769,"blocks":[["翁委員曉玲：（11時50分）請部長。"],["主席：請彭部長。"],["彭部長啓明：翁委員好。"],["翁委員曉玲：部長好。看了今天部長所提的報告，我尤其關心的是，關於已經被公告要嚴格控管空氣品質的場所的議題。依照室內空氣品質管制法第六條規定，現在主管機關可以綜合各種考量的因素，公告要受到更嚴格的空氣品質標準管制的公私立場所。可是我們的研究發現，似乎高中以下學校，包含幼兒園等等，是排除在外的，就是還沒有在你們公告的場所裡面，不知道原因是什麼？"],["彭部長啓明：當時在推的時候，因為這個是很久以前，大概106年其實有去溝通，可是第一個，他們沒有這個預算，因為做一次這個檢查大概要二、三萬塊，而且還要有一個專責人員，大部分的中小學覺得他們的預算還有各方面人力不夠，的確是有抗拒。所以我們後來改用自主標章，等於是稍微輕一點地鼓勵他來進行，並不是強制性的。"],["翁委員曉玲：我想提醒部長，為什麼公告一些公私立場所要受到更為嚴格的空氣品質管制，無疑就是考量到國民健康安全還有特定族群的健康問題。像幼兒園、高中以下學校等等，這些孩子們其實更需要乾淨的空氣品質，室內空氣品質必須更加良好，但是現在卻因為可能我們在訂定相關授權辦法的時候，沒有考慮到場所的差異性，卻又把他們排除在外，只鼓勵他們要去推動什麼自主標章。本席認為其實這樣是不夠的，是不是環境部應該要研擬特別的辦法，能夠讓高中以下學校、幼兒園或是財力比較不足的場所，他們也能夠有更好、可以自主的針對空氣品質管理的一個機制？甚至環境部也可以編列相關費用補助這些學校還有幼兒園，讓他們裡面的空氣品質可以達到符合我們現在的要求。否則的話，我認為，最應該要照顧的是小孩們，就是年輕孩子們的健康，結果反而他們是被排除在外的。我希望環境部是不是可以研擬相關的辦法，因場所的差異制定特別的標準？"],["彭部長啓明：這個我們會努力，因為最主要還是現在有一些連續自動的監測，它結合IoT，例如送風等等，我們看到市場已經很成熟了。如果真的要檢測要花二、三萬塊，然後他還要花錢做改善，其實對於很多業者都是很大的負擔，他們會很抗拒，現在有一些IoT的工具……"],["翁委員曉玲：是，但這部分如果政府部門可以提供相對應的補貼、補助，把相關的系統建立起來，我覺得是有必要的。"],["彭部長啓明：好。"],["翁委員曉玲：接下來我還要再請教另外一個問題，部長您也曾經提到，為了要管制移動污染源，所以鼓勵地方環保局要劃設國中校園旁邊有個空品維護區。現在我們看到已經有6個縣市，在一些中小學旁邊有規劃空氣品質維護區。不過我們也發現，這些空氣品質維護區，除了花蓮中正國小，他們已經有了一個清楚的空氣污染物質的改善，其他的學校都還沒有一個具體改善的數據或是……不知道環境部到底對於這些學校周邊的空氣品質有沒有進行追蹤？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，現在大概有91個空品維護區，不過學校在中小學的部分真的只有10個，現在大概有30個正在規劃當中。其實我們第一個優先的是在工廠附近等等的，那個要先做。"],["翁委員曉玲：對。"],["彭部長啓明：這個我要跟地方環保局一起合作，也要人力，所以目前我們的確是跟一些所謂風險區的縣市環保局在討論當中，希望擴大。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，我認為這個要積極去做。"],["彭部長啓明：好。"],["翁委員曉玲：有些都已經設置一、兩年了，可是我們沒有看到有任何改善的數據，不要說空氣品質維護區劃在那裡只是好看的、只是好像符合法規上的要求，但是沒有實際的作為的話就沒有意義，也請部長要去盯這件事情。"],["彭部長啓明：好。"],["翁委員曉玲：接下來還有一個部分，我們知道有些地方，譬如有些小學就在工業區，現在就空氣品質監測系統所測定的項目裡面，基本上好像是不涵蓋臭味，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：臭味，每個人認知的臭不一樣，所以其實臭味是滿特別的，那個要由專業的人、聞臭師來做判別。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，可是在你們空氣品質監測站的測定項目裡面，有關於臭味的部分，它是屬於得測定項目，難道國外或是我們現在沒有一個技術，可以比較客觀地去測量有關於臭味的部分嗎？確實我們也知道有些小學就在工業區旁邊，尤其又在瀝青廠旁邊，聞到的味道令人非常不舒服，就這個部分難道沒有辦法去克服檢測上的難度嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：因為臭味是要人工、有專門的聞臭師是很專業在做，的確環境部有一些配合的。但我舉例，臭豆腐有人說香、有人說臭，每個人的認定不一樣，所以……"],["翁委員曉玲：可是有關於瀝青製程涵蓋的物質，包含苯這些，其實都是對於人體健康非常不好的一些物質，這個部分沒有辦法去測嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：這個可以……"],["翁委員曉玲：還是現在已經有在測了嗎？多環芳香烴化合物、烷類、鹵烷類、多環芳香烴碳氫化合物。"],["張司長順欽：不好意思，跟委員報告，因為那個會有味道的東西，它成分都不一樣，好像有氮的它通常會有味道、有硫的它通常會有味道，所以沒有無差別的方式去測這個臭味是什麼，很難，幾乎是不可能，除非採樣回到實驗室用質譜儀跑，就會比較清楚是哪一些成分。不然的話人的感官，其實我們鼻子的最低偵測極限很靈，很低的濃度，各種不同的化合物混在一起，但沒有一個簡單的儀器可以做，這個我們目前都在嘗試，但還沒有成功。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，我認為這應該在科學上面還是有辦法克服的，技術上面或是當然像部長講的每個人主觀的感覺不一樣，但還是有一般共同的標準，如果全部師生都已經聞到濃濃的瀝青化學物質的味道，不能覺得說這是他們的嗅覺太靈敏了，所以你把它忽略不計。"],["彭部長啓明：這個只要有個案來申報通知，我們都會有專業團隊協助檢測，來做這個事情。"],["翁委員曉玲：譬如這個小學就在瀝青廠旁邊，長期就在這樣的環境下，所以可能更需要長時間、常態性的檢測，而不適合都是等待人民主動檢舉、舉報後才做這樣子的事情。"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["翁委員曉玲：我覺得這樣的話，其實環境部還有地方環保局就不太負責任了。"],["彭部長啓明：是，像那個……我們會進行。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，最後我還要講一個議題，過去韓國瑜院長擔任高雄市市長的時候，曾經提出過一個議題，就是可以在校園裡面設置冷氣機與空氣清淨機，所謂的「雙機計畫」。劉建國委員之前也曾經倡議，在雲林麥寮國小可以安裝「新風系統」。我認為這確實有助於改善室內空氣品質，不知道環境部對於這個部分有沒有什麼看法、未來有沒有可能提撥相關的補助費用，至少在工業區旁的小學們可以優先申請改善空氣品質的設備？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，新風系統是劉委員為了濁水溪揚塵特別爭取的，這個是教育部在補助，剛剛有報告未來是不是要再檢討。","另外一個是那時候的韓市長，就是韓院長推動的，冷氣機現在中小學都有了，但是空氣清淨機還是要看需求，不見得每個學校都是在空氣污染區，如果有的話就跟新風系統有一點類似，那我們會再研議。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，所以這部分是不是可以綜合性地盤點，到底哪些學校有急迫性必要？就像我們剛剛講的，工業區旁的小學其實看起來也不是太多，頂多大概幾十間，可以優先從那些學校來進行改善。總之，現在因為我們少子化，所以每個孩子都是我們的寶貝，我們都希望他們的身體健康，能夠得到最好的照顧，政府該花的錢還是要花、該補助的還是要補助。"],["彭部長啓明：好，這個我們來研究一下。"],["翁委員曉玲：希望部長這邊可以特別關注這件事情。"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，以上。"],["主席：謝謝翁曉玲委員的發言。","接下來請洪孟楷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":512,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-6","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","盧縣一","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","涂權吉","林淑芬","黃秀芳","翁曉玲","洪孟楷","王正旭","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳培瑜","張啓楷","楊曜","陳瑩","蘇清泉","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":427,"meetingDate":["2025-04-17"],"gazette_id":"1143801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部部長、經濟部、外交部就「因應美國退出巴黎氣候協定並提出對等關稅，對國內\n產業淨零轉型造成衝擊」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、邀請環境部部長、勞動部、教育部、經\n濟部針對「國內校園、賣場及工作場域之室內空氣污染物管理及防制精進作為」進行專題報告，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143801_00007"}}}